June 30, 2025 • 42 mins
When a new self-appointed relationship "guru" begins racking up millions of views on social media with inflammatory advice about men, women, and money, the Manhood Matters team steps in to set the record straight. This episode dissects the dangerous trend of unqualified influencers who gain massive followings by pandering to relationship pain points and stoking gender wars for clicks.
The hosts draw a direct parallel to Derek Jackson—the previous relationship advisor who preached standards to women while mistreating his own wife—and unmask how these personalities profit from division. From claims that "no man with real money cares if she's a gold digger" to contradictory advice about texting behaviors, the team breaks down why these viral soundbites attract attention while damaging real relationships.
What makes this conversation particularly compelling is how the panel—featuring a therapist, a business owner married 23 years, and other relationship veterans—offers nuanced counterpoints from lived experience. They explore the difference between women desiring security versus being reduced to gold diggers, why financial provision should never equal ownership, and how the best relationships involve mutual contribution beyond money.
Most troublingly, they observe how these harmful messages primarily circulate within the Black community, potentially widening relationship divides rather than healing them. As one host powerfully notes: "I'm convinced social media is about making the human race regress."
Whether you're navigating your own relationship or concerned about the advice your loved ones are consuming online, this episode provides crucial perspective on distinguishing harmful clickbait from genuine relationship wisdom. Join us as we challenge toxic narratives and offer healthier frameworks for understanding partnership, provision, and mutual respect.
What relationship advice have you encountered online that seemed questionable? Share your thoughts and join our growing community of listeners seeking authentic conversations about manhood, relationships, and personal growth.
Email us at manhoodmatterspodcast@gmail.com
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I didn't have a problem with it because that's
what attracted me to her how shelooked.
I'm confident in my situation.
We had conversations, Iexpressed the opinions of other
people.
I wasn't trying to tell her sheshould change, but just be
knowledgeable, you know.
And her retort was okay.
That's their problem, because Iknow who I am as a person.
(00:20):
I'm not loose, I'm not this.
I'm about my business.
I look good in what I wear andI like to wear what I want to
wear.
Cool, if you like it, I love it.
Yeah, when I would get this?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Welcome back family.
Do you guys remember this guy?
I believe his name is DerekJackson.
He was on the internet as theself-appointed savior of all
women either in or wanting arelationship.
He'd spend a lot of his timebeing judgmental and cracking
down on men.
In general, a lot of his advicewas actually quite good, except
the person who needed DerekJackson's advice the most was,
(00:58):
in fact, derek Jackson.
While this man was telling theworld what to do, he had a whole
wife at home who was battered,abused, humiliated, cheated on.
But he was writing books andtelling the world how to
navigate their relationships.
Well, where there's a cat,there's a copy.
So now this other dude hastaken up the mental, except that
(01:20):
he's a tad more, shall I say,flamboyant.
Now.
Normally I'd scroll right pastthis type of content.
It has nothing to do with me,but the reason it came to my
attention is because it's beingshared by sisters.
I don't see any otherethnicities taking this dude
seriously.
Maybe they figured out that ifthey want actual relationship
(01:41):
advice, they'll go to aprofessional and not some guy on
Facebook.
So what we'll do in thisepisode is play clips so you can
form your own opinion.
Is the advice good?
Is he right?
Is it dangerous?
Is he enticing a gender war?
What's his agenda Now?
After each quote, we willrespond.
(02:01):
I am your host, stefan, and I amjoined at the Men's Refinery in
Conyers, georgia, by one of theowners, vino Sanders, who's
been married for 23 years,merlin Knight, a corporate giant
, and Quentin Opong, a happilymarried young therapist who
works with our youth and youngcouples.
This one's going to be specialand I'm dying to hear your
(02:22):
feedback, so don't forget toemail us.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's going to be special andI'm dying to hear your feedback,
so don't forget to email us.
(02:43):
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Then I'm going to ask you guysto just give me your thoughts on
it.
Okay, all right, you ready?
Yeah, all right, cool, so noman with real money cares if
she's a gold digger.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
They just don't.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So my question is what is considered real money?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
If you can afford to pay for whatever she needs,
wants.
I guess that could be relativeright, Because some people with
real money could be like if I'mmaking $10,000 a month, I'm
great, and some people will notgreat until they're making
$100,000 a month.
So we don't know.
So we're going to say someonewho is at least at a $200,000
mark a year.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I've heard women say if you're not making $250,000,
at least you can't take me, youcan't be with me.
So I'm going to open up with ahot take, right, and it's
because of what I see in therapy.
It might not be a hot take, buta lot of times women I'm
noticing, particularly in ourcontext, black women they're
oftentimes looking for anotherfather figure than a partner or
husband, and that's why I have aproblem with that statement,
(03:43):
because ultimately, what it'sdoing is putting men in this
position of as long as you're aman and you can just spend money
on this woman, then she's goodand you're good as a man.
All she needs for you to justkeep providing, providing right,
and I'm not saying that as menwe're not providers, but it
almost pits men in.
Just as long as you can do that, you're good, right.
(04:04):
And it puts this woman in asituation where a woman is not
seen as a partner.
But ask for everything you want, and it's a man, can take care
of it.
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Only thing I want to push back on here is this that's
not a woman saying this.
I don't want to blame the women.
That's not their thought that'sfair, because they didn't say
it.
This dude is saying it, that'sfair, and he's almost speaking
to the women and preachingalmost on their behalf, when in
reality it's just him sayingthat stuff.
I think it's a dangerous,that's a statement.
But how do we respond topossibly a woman hearing this
thinking?
(04:32):
Here's a man saying that.
No man with real money care ifI'm a gold digger does he really
know what a real man?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
obviously he doesn't.
For him to spew out his mouthto say that real man with money
doesn't care if she's a golddigger, whereas we have sisters.
We don't want them being golddiggers, right?
So they're putting themselvesin a situation where they're
able to now be abused ormanipulated because of the fact
that I'm going to buy youwhatever it is, but you do
(05:00):
exactly what I say.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Now they're controlling you.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Yes, yes, so that is not a true statement at all and
he should be ashamed for sayingthis is a white dude talking to
our sisters, right?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
yeah for some reason they decided they want to share
that shit.
But to your point, if a womanis being purchased, you're being
owned it's transactional.
Yeah, it's transactional, Iknow you're not really really
for me because of anything otherthan the money.
So in that case, I'm going toact that way.
If I buy a machine, I want itto work a certain way.
I expect it to work a certainway, or I'm sending it back.
(05:33):
I'm going to complain.
I want it to do what it'ssupposed to do.
And if I buy a gold digger,what do I need it to do for me?
Exactly, exactly.
You don't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And the thing is we have a real life scenario of
that right now Playing out,Dealing with, you know, Sean
Collins.
He actually, during the timethat he was with this young lady
that he's in court with now, hehad a relationship with another
woman.
Evidently he did not treat herthe same way that he treated
this other woman, because herstandards were a little bit
(06:03):
different and he couldn't getaway with some of the things
that he got away with this otherwoman, not to speak on her
being a victim.
She caused her own demise.
But when you put yourself incertain positions you're going
to get certain results.
You know, I have a daughter andone of the things I tell her is
be reliant on yourself If youfind a man that is willing to
(06:24):
provide for you that's fine, butdon't let that be the deciding
factor as to whether or not, youwant to be with him.
Because men typically if they'rein that position, as you
mentioned, I now own you, so Ican do and say and treat you any
way that I choose to, becauseyou are here for a purpose.
(06:44):
Long as I'm providing thatpurpose, then you have no say so
.
Yeah, you have no rights, yeah,you have no complaints.
I think that's the message thatgentleman is saying when he
says that he's putting thesewomen in these positions?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
by allowing them to believe that.
His business is working becauseit's all about clicks and likes
and shares because, you havethese women who have been maybe
victimized because maybe theyhad a horrible relationship.
All of a sudden they want toput all men in one bucket and
they love sharing stuff likethat.
But the reason again that Ithink is dangerous is because it
perpetuates this stigma aboutblack women that is not even
(07:21):
real.
They're taking a subset of thepopulation and they're saying
this is everything, this iseveryone.
This is everyone.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
This is how it should be, and I think to your point,
his agenda unfortunately, I talkto people about in different
spaces is it stifles ouridentity.
Because, as a man, if you getcaught up and bought into the
idea that all you should be ableto do is just throw money at
your wife or at your woman whenit's time to provide emotional
(07:47):
yeah, support, when it's time toprovide mental support, when
it's time to be a father, whenit's time to do other things
than just that thing, it's like,well, what am I supposed to do?
You?
Speaker 5 (07:55):
know and I've already paid for this exactly it also
then turns the table back to thewoman.
So, because social media isgiving them this, this platform,
but believing that all he hasto do is toss a dollar at you or
three dollars at you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
All of a sudden.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
Now you are the criminal of the crim.
So what does it say about youas a person?
So, because you're now allowingthis guy to say that I'm going
to be that provider, but more so, I'm really just going to be
the purchaser.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
And I have a receipt.
So when I'm done with it, it'snot a provider, it's a purchaser
.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Yeah, and when I'm, when I'm done with that one yeah
, yeah, when I'm done with it, Ican cash in and or return it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, and for the newest model, and that's exactly
what will happen, you know, andnot only does it poison the
mind of our women, but you thinkabout these young guys that are
hearing this, you know.
It takes me back to this songall of us are familiar with.
You're not tricking if you gotit.
Yeah, you still are trickingyou just right you just spending
(08:55):
more.
But it leaves the idea withthese young men that all I have
to do is acquire this money andand I can treat women any kind
of way yeah.
And that's the wrong messagethat's being put out there.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Well, like you said, you have daughters, I have
sisters, nine to be exact, so Iwould never want them to be in a
situation where someone issaying I'm going to be that
provider, then all I do isprovide the financial aspect to
it when that shoe turns.
Yeah, I need more than justyour dollar.
So, who becomes the gold diggerat that point?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So next thing that he says Women should be gold
diggers.
Women should look for aprovider.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
What's wrong with that?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Man, somebody needs to take this.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Oh hey, listen.
Hundreds and thousands of viewshe sounds like a woman he does.
It's that gender war baiting.
Yes, it's so much of thatnonsense, but it sells right,
and all I'm trying to do isexpose it for what it actually
is.
That guy doesn't give a shitabout you.
He doesn't.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
He doesn't care about how women know anything like
that, right, but it gets clicksthat second quote, I think, is
dialing me in on his agenda,because he's really and I think
you said that, stefan he'spandering to the pain of women
and I get this aspect, like I'veheard.
Women share this desire to getto a place where they're in
their soft girl era, right surethey're in this place where they
(10:23):
can let down.
They don't have to feel thepressure of having to provide
for a family or having to be theperson that takes care of
everybody, and so that's whathe's really pandering to, but
it's a twisted form of itExactly Because actually I agree
that there is nothing wrongwith women wanting to have a
provider in their lives, and Ido agree that women should be in
their soft area.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
That's where you belong.
I need to be in my masculinearea.
That's how lies.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
That's how we are right.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
That's my philosophy.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And I should do everything I can to work a
million hours a day to provideand do all I can for my family
and I don't want, you know, mywife with a pickaxe in the field
you know doing that stuff.
That being said, a gold diggershe's not.
So when you mix the two of them, you say hey women should be
gold diggers.
They should look for providers.
And those two differentsubjects, that's good.
Women should look for providers.
(11:08):
That's true if that's yourthing.
And again, it depends on howmuch of that independence you
want to give up, because thesecond you look for a provider
and you can't do for yourself,there's certain independence
that is lost not that weshouldn't provide as men.
My wife's friend was visiting usa couple of days ago and she
was telling us about this ordealat the airport and this guy was
(11:30):
, you know, livid because it wascustomer service, things were
bad and his wife was in line.
So he started making a sceneand then the wife was like honey
, you're embarrassing us, you'remaking a scene.
And he yelled at her and hesaid get your ass out the line.
My wife's friend was telling usthis and my wife was like wait,
what what'd she do?
She goes, she got her ass outthe line, yeah, yeah, basically
she's kept exactly, she's kept,that's actually the word they
(11:52):
use.
She's kept yeah, and so whenyou're in that situation and
someone in public yells at youand say get your ass over here,
what do you do but get your assover here because they remove
themselves from understandingwho they are.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Correct To allow some man or woman, because it goes
both ways for them, to just moveover to the side and be silent,
because they've now releasedthemselves so they can be
provided for.
It's not always financial.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
It's not always financial.
So if you're looking for aprovider, it doesn't have to be
a financial provider.
But if that provider is givingyou the insight that you need,
that doesn't mean you're kept,that doesn't mean that you're
submissive, that means thatyou're in a relationship.
But for him to say that theyneed to be kept women again, it
(12:40):
just says a lot about him.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And out of all the things that we provide as men,
money is the only thing that weprovide that diminishes in a way
the woman, if I provide safetyin my home.
Something goes bang in themiddle of the night.
I'm up.
Wife doesn't have to be up.
She knows Steph's here, we'reprotected.
If we're out, she knows we'reprotected.
I provide that, but she doesn'tfeel less than because of it
(13:04):
protected.
I provide that, but she doesn'tfeel less than because of it If
I provide prayer you know, and Icover her prayer again, she
doesn't feel less than becauseshe will tell you, my man prays
over me every day.
But if she's got no financialmeans whatsoever and I'm that
guy who's just paying all themoney, there's something about
it.
I think as human beings wherewe just feel like we're a little
less than because we don't likethat feeling of having to rely
(13:25):
on.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
And power.
Those two things have gone handin hand to where the more money
you have, the more power youhave, and so if you don't have
money, the less power you have.
And that's unfortunate, likeeven when you talk about
marriage and partnership.
Like my wife, for instance,there is so much value that she
adds to my life that I couldn'tbuy, correct.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's price.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
It's like who I'm becoming as a man, as a
therapist.
Even sometimes making sure Idon't run around with my head
cut off is because sometimesthere's just there's an
intangible things that sheprovides that I could have all
the money in the world and ifshe was gone I would crash in a
heartbeat.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
You know I'm saying and you just led to my very next
statement, because what shebrings, the intangible things
that she brings- because thenext statement he makes is this
listen if a man asks you whatyou bring to the table.
That man has a low credit score.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Wow, oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
So we're not even allowed, as men, to ask a woman
what she brings to the table,because in his mind, I think
it's smarter than this.
It's no different than Trump.
I think he does have twopendants to his base.
I think this dude is doing theexact same thing.
In that way, you know damn wellwhat we mean when we say what
do you bring to the table.
I'm not asking you to pay thelight bill yeah I'm asking you
for something else and theintention was, like you said.
(14:42):
She keeps you together, shemakes you better, she makes you
grow.
If you're dating just to sleeparound, that's a different story
.
But you're dating to be inrelationships, that question is
going to come up.
What he's training them tobelieve is, if someone asks you,
that he got a 500 credit score.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Run.
He's making the whole thingabout money and a true
partnership, a true relationship.
It goes beyond that.
You have a mental, you havespiritual, you have so many
other factors that are involvedin relationship.
The money aspect of it can beworked out.
I've been married 23 yearsAwesome.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And I play the role, the traditional role, of a
husband.
I try to take care ofeverything, you know.
Of course, she has her ownthings that she take care of,
but the majority of stuff I takecare of because that's my role.
But there are times where shemay have to step in.
That doesn't lessen me as a manand it doesn't lessen her as a
woman, correct, you know?
(15:38):
Because we're working as apartnership and what he's saying
is, if you got to step in, thatsomething is wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
that thinking is primitive there you go, that's
the word for it.
Yeah, almost like you want tolook at the dude and go hey, you
know what?
We wish you a speedy evolution,my friend.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, next quote.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's really hard to respect a man that you have to
pay for.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Now I get that Even if you ask me out, I'm still not
going to let you pay.
So if I can't afford to pay, ifthat's my situation, it's just
not going out, I might miss thatentirely, because that's just a
pride thing in me.
Now, when you're in arelationship with someone, like
you said, you run your ownbusiness and you could have a
good month, a bad month.
Things could happen.
There could be money that couldbe allocated elsewhere.
You can't touch it.
There's a lot of differentvariables and wife steps in Now.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
as men, as real men, this eats me up, no because if
you're in that relationship,that doesn't diminish you as a
man.
That's a partnership.
It doesn't make you less of aman.
No, I don't think it does.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I don't think it diminishes you.
I'm saying that it makes mefeel a certain way pridefully,
where.
I just feel less You're right,you shouldn't.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
This is my own head, because sometimes you have to
get out of your own head.
You just said the key word it'spride In a relationship that
pride is no place for it.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You have to survive as a unit, not to mention if you
have children.
You have to survive whatever ittakes as a unit, so I have no
place for pride.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I struggle with that it's real though.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's being transparent.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
If you're having a bad month and then that month
turns into three, what does thatsay to the family?
Because of your pride prideyou've not allowed your partner
to expose herself or involveherself in the situation.
You've created a sense, a toxicrelationship.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
That's really good.
Y'all are challenging him, butit's even it's challenging me,
because she did also say thevows yeah, you know, she also
took the same.
There wasn't a quota.
She also said in sickness andin hell broke or rich.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
She said it too, so that's yeah, that's.
That's hit me as a man.
You, you certainly want to makesure you're providing for the
family or doing what needs to be, but if it's a first date and
she asked you out, go nigga, Iain't going.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
If I don't have the money, I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
The thing is, your first date Is about getting To
know that person Correct, andthem getting To know you.
That doesn't always Constitutethat you have to Spend money to
do that.
Like you said, you can go tothe park.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, get some ice cream, get ice cream cone.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
I still need money For ice cream, but sure, if it's
broke broke, go to the park.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Better yet broke, broke don't date.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I was going to add to that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I was going to say you're not in a position to be
in a relationship.
You need to work yourself outof that mess first, but that's a
different conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And to add to that, I wouldn't say I do agree in the
standpoint of if you're broke.
I got married I was still in mymaster's program and I was at
an internship.
I was probably bringing inmaybe less than a grand a month.
My wife was working full-timeshe held it down right my uncle.
Actually at the time he gave mesome really good advice.
She was like he was like man,if you guys are dating, you
(18:43):
ready to get married and if thelord has told you to do it
because if her character and howshe treats you now, when you
don't got money, is great, youcan trust her that when you do
like, it's going to be equallygreat.
And my dad was on the oppositeand my dad was like if the woman
makes more money than you, shewon't respect you, she won't
respect you.
And I remember I almost tookthat to heart.
Yeah, man, the foundation.
(19:05):
I think what he was trying tosay was as a man, don't be lazy.
I think it's a healthy level.
Take some pride in being ableto provide and take care for
your family.
Obviously, I think hecommunicated it the wrong way, I
think, or in a way that wasunhealthy.
So I do think there's a levelsometimes where you do, as a man
, want to take that pressure offof your spouse you know, you
(19:25):
don't want them to feel thepressure of rent is due again or
mortgage is due again.
You know what I yeah, it's ourjob.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I'm on my way to being a multimillionaire and I
told my wife I'm going to retireyou in two years.
Right, that's awesome.
First thing she said to me wasyou're not retiring me, I'm
going to keep bringing in money.
Because again to that firstpoint, she's like I don't ever
want to be in that situation towhere I don't feel like I have
control of things.
It was like oh, I can't totallygive up what I feel is my
(19:54):
agency at any point in time andI'm like you wouldn't.
You know me, that's not thecase and she's just like it's in
my own head.
I would not be in thatsituation.
So, whether I help you run thebusiness, whatever it is, but
it's some kind of way I'mearning.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
And it's so funny you say that because when you were
speaking about the couple thatwas in the airport, I start
remembering one of my friendswhose wife is in that situation.
It's like huh, you didn'treally think about it.
You've seen it, but you didn'treally think about it.
I've heard him say I make thedecision, whatever I say goes.
Then I look over at her andshe's just, that's it.
(20:27):
She's quiet, quiet.
Even the children's creditcards are all under him.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
That is definitely controlled, and you know, to me
that speaks also to the man.
You know, this is my ownpersonal opinion that speaks to
a form of insecurity on his partTo even want someone that
doesn't have a voice.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I don't personally understand that, because if I'm
involved with someone, I don'twant another child.
You know what I'm saying?
Correct?
That's what you do with yourchildren.
You tell them look, hey, getyour butt over here.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And they move.
That's a child.
I don't want to have arelationship with another child.
I want my woman.
You know she ain't got to bearguing with me all the time,
but at least have some dignityabout yourself.
Yeah, you know, have someself-worth.
If I'm coming off the mouthslick, at least look at me like
I'm crazy, like what up, bruh.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
You need to have someone who will challenge you
on that.
I've learned a while back youshow people and you tell people
how you want to be treated.
Maybe you don't do this foranyone else, but this is what
you do for me.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
It goes back to Maya Angelou saying when they show
you who they are believe them.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
The first are believe them.
Yes, sir, the first time.
Yeah, man, just to even goingback to what you said, you know
men can feel being a marriagefor a long time and then end up
feeling alone and the pressureso much eventually mentally they
can't take it no more, eitherbecause of them or these social
media people.
They've created a family whereeverything they're carrying, it
all carrying it all to the pointthey don't have to there's a
partner in the relationship, youknow, and so I think that's one
(21:58):
of the negative effects.
Sometimes, when you get to aplace where you're like your
wife is also like a kid, andthere's no voice.
And there's even in the bible,right, I know, sometimes in the
christian space we've used thewhole wife submits your husband,
man, um, you're the leader ofyour home sometimes to belittle
women.
Women and something that I'veoften shared with women, you
know, when the Bible says thatGod wanted to create someone for
(22:19):
Adam, who was a help meet forhim, that word helper or help
meet is actually the same wordthey use for the Holy Spirit,
which is the other part of theTrinity, god, right, and that
word helper is basically sayingthat this woman is equally met
to be able to help the man.
And so I often tell women likeyou're not just helping, like
the help, you've literally beenput on the same level in some
(22:41):
ways as the holy spirit in aman's life.
Like that is very powerful.
I think all of us men, weshould want a woman that can
speak, can challenge us, can sayyou tripping right here, bro,
like, can call out the booger inour nose so that we don't go
out there looking crazy you knowright.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So anyway, good point .
He has another one here if aman cares about how much money
you make.
He's scheming, scheming for todo it.
That's a well, I guess that's aquestion from a real man, right
?
Because I'm like what do youmean?
I'm scheming, scheming for what?
Speaker 5 (23:09):
but you want to move, but you want her to be a gold
digger, exactly right the Right,the double standard, no, no.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Listen, he contradicts himself all the time
but again you can tell.
Is the audience going toanalyze this and say, wait a
second?
this makes no sense Right,Because the audience is just
clicking likes and sharingbecause they want to send a
message to one person inparticular.
When I met my wife, thingsmoved pretty rapidly.
She was just like this is howmuch money I make.
(23:35):
That's what the bonus lookslike, Because the goal was we're
going to put our assetstogether and we're going to put
our heads together and thiseffort together so we can fight
this thing called life.
So it makes sense that we havethese discussions about finances
.
But he's looking at itdifferently.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Depending on, like you said, how fast the
relationship is moving.
That's an important topic thatfalls in line with how you want
to raise your kids.
Again, what your religiousbeliefs are what you expect as a
husband and a wife and thefinancial aspect of it.
What are you bringing?
What am I bringing?
When we come together, whatwe'll be able to do as a unit,
(24:06):
that's an adult relationship.
That's a word right.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
That's adulting.
Yeah, how do we not talk about?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
yeah, that's that's not scheming, you know what is?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
he 16 no, dude, he's a grown man, I would say late
30s probably, maybe a littleyounger, who knows?
Because he's definitely, like Isaid, social media influencing
and I guess you can go back toasking what his upbringing look.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
Yeah, you know, a lot of times I find that people
like that.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
He may have had a normal upbringing, but he found
a niche correct okay he'sexploiting that niche.
Okay, you're going to like thisone.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
If the man is insecure about you, he thinks
that you are better than him.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
You know what's funny about that?
I feel like that's one of thosegender double standards, like
that word in general, right,sometimes it can get an overly
negative or a shamingconnotation.
So if you're insecure, oh man,you're insecure when really
insecurity is, I don't feel safe.
Say that one more time.
Insecurity just means I don'tfeel safe.
Say that one more time.
Insecurity just means I don'tfeel safe, right, and so first
let's just say if the man doesfeel insecure, I don't think the
(25:13):
first solution is to just shamehim.
Let's talk about it.
Why don't you feel safe with megoing out and doing this?
And that?
Is this something that you'veexperienced, right?
Great?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
point.
But you know, that's exactlywhat it is A good majority of
the time.
If we expose that insecurity,which is simply, when you put it
that way, you explain what itis.
I don't feel safe in thissituation.
I don't feel safe with you.
We're made to feel ashamed forexposing that.
You're insecure because youknow I look good, I'm going out,
you know.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And I think it also stems it could be from past
trauma.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
They could have been in a previous relationship.
The man that is.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Okay, yeah, if he was in a previous relationship and,
let's say, significant othercheated on him and she was with
her girls when she did it, thatcould generate this unsafe
feeling.
Okay, you going out with yourgirlfriends the last time and
it's my last time that happened.
Dexter showed up, so yeah, Idon't want you To go out with
(26:09):
your girlfriends.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Because of my personal trauma.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Yeah, is that fair?
No, that's not fair, that's notfair.
So then, that's that's the partwhen you talk about it, right?
Yeah, that's all that is.
That's to your point.
I think that's past trauma,yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Not so much insecurity.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Is past trauma and he's acting on that past trauma
that's a good distinction tomake.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Sometimes an insecurity can come from past
trauma.
Sometimes it just could be likea safety, because if it's a
past trauma, now we can talkthrough it.
And how do we get over the hump?
Because ultimately it's notfair to the women, either
because you're making her umresponsible for what happened to
you in the past and she's not.
She's not that person.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Exactly she's not so to your point, she should have
the presence of mind to say thisperson that I care very much
about is feeling possibly unsafein this particular situation.
Let's talk about it, let'saddress it Right, because you
can say the last time thishappened I was dating someone
who went on a girl strip and Idon't want that to be.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
She ran into Dexter.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
She ran into Dexter you know, on the beach in
Jamaica Dexter finna become thepseudonym for it's always Dexter
bro.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
You know, hey Gial, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You're doing.
Beautiful woman by yourself,beautiful woman like you.
Wait, you're.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Jamaican.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
No, I'm not Gosh.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
That was good, that was good.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But everybody knows that, that's Eddie.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Murphy right.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
So I think it's your responsibility to say I feel
this way, but it's also herresponsibility to say what's
making you feel this way.
If you care enough about eachother, you kind of step in to
say let's address this.
The reason we were attractedphysically before we did
anything is before she openedher mouth.
We saw her, we were like, ohshit, this is someone I'd like
to talk to, this is someone Ican see myself being with, and
then you proceeded from there.
(27:49):
So that hasn't changed.
Sometimes, you know, over time,they look even better.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Sometimes, they don't .
I don't know, but the wholeinsecurity thing is one of those
things where I don't think itmeans that we think she's better
than we are or that she's abovemy station.
Now there's legitimateinsecurities.
Maybe there's no traumawhatsoever, maybe it's just I
don't want you wearing thatbecause you look a little
scandalous in that I don't wantyou going out.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
You got to ask the question when you met her was
she dressing that way?
Yeah, that's a good point,that's a really good point, and
if the answer is no, you know,then you have to look at, okay.
You have to look at okay, whyall of a sudden now you decided
you want to dress this way?
It reminds me when I wasyounger, I dated a young woman.
When I met her, you know, shealways dressed Conservative.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
No, oh hot the direct opposite.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Okay, she was that girl.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, she was that girl Walk in the room, everybody
turning around like whoa, youknow, she was that girl.
Once we started dating shedidn't change the way she
dressed.
And, my friends, man, you, youknow, you let your girl go out
like that.
You know you, and I didn't havea problem with it because
that's what attracted me to herright how she looked.
I'm like, why would I want tochange?
(29:00):
I'm confident in my situation,you know.
I'm saying because we hadconversations and I expressed
the opinions of other people andI was doing that more or less
to just kind of make her aware.
I wasn't trying to tell her sheshould change, but just be
knowledgeable, you know.
And her retort was OK.
That's their problem, because Iknow who I am as a person.
(29:21):
I'm not loose, I'm not this.
I'm about my business.
I look good in what I wear andI like to wear what I want to
wear.
Cool, if you like it, I love it.
Yeah, when I would get thisfeedback from my boys, I had to
look into myself and say, okay,am I gonna?
Speaker 5 (29:37):
allow their opinion, the peer pressure to mess up my
relationship.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
So my thing was you know, hey, I ain't got a problem
with it yeah and you know wedated for many years.
See you, my cousin man, youcrazy.
I would never let my girl Well,that's your girl, that's why
you having problems.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
But it goes back to that now you're spending more
time with her versus them, solet's see if we can build a
wedge in between this.
So we have to be mindful ofwhen we are dating and when we
finally get married.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
That's the same with girlfriends.
They do the same thing, andwhen we finally get married.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
That's the same with girlfriends.
They do the same thing.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I was going to say they do the exact thing I was
going to say I guess they do,but I have never had a friend
like that, and if I do, I don'tknow him.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I don't know who that is.
I don't have any friends likethat Because.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I can imagine.
We're hanging out all the time,merlin, and all of a sudden you
find this girl that you'resuper happy with and all of a
sudden I feel like, oh, youdon't spend as much time with me
, no more.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Nick what are you talking about?
But honestly B you have thoseguys that are.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I think it may be more or less envy that you have
that woman and they don't Likewith some women.
They see a woman with a goodman and they don't have one.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
So you know they do little things to sabotage.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Misery loves company where you got your friends, your
boys, you know they oh man, heain't the same, no more, since
he got with old girl, you know?
No, I'm not that's right,that's right I'm not, that's
right.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
I was gonna say why would you want me to be the same
?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
because they are stuck, yeah, yeah, and they want
you to be stuck with them rightnow, bro I got one here.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
That's where he just contradicts himself over the
next two statements.
One statement is he's out notresponding to your text with God
knows who, Probably that hoe,let's see who can be the bigger
hoe.
This is again.
Remind you, this is a mansaying this to women.
You're not always in meetingslooking at your text responding
(31:27):
immediately.
If my wife calls me to text me,I don't respond.
She chills.
But, she knows I'm probably witha customer Right.
Something's happening.
If she calls me twice and shecalls me once, I don't answer.
She calls me right back.
Whatever I'm doing, I'mdropping Because I'm like my
wife never does this.
This might be an emergency.
And then she's like I'm sorry,I butt dialed you.
I'm like, come on, man, but menot responding to your text in
(31:51):
whatever you deem a reasonabletime does not mean I'm doing
anything wrong, and that's whathe's basically saying.
So you know what?
Why don't I jump the gun and gobe a hoe?
Speaker 4 (31:59):
because he's probably being a hoe so he just sees a
mistrust and, on the flip side,even if he was right, is that
really how you want to respond,tit for tat, not saying that you
should stick with him oranything like that, but what
would you want to do?
That you know, I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Well, you don't even know the situation.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
That's true as to why he's not responding to the text
yeah, like you said you jumpedin the gun for something that
you don't really know what'sgoing on like I may be looking
at something on my phone and thevolume is up and I'll turn the
volume down.
I accidentally turned down myring volume.
Okay, if I don't know this andmy wife calls, she may call a
couple.
I don't hear the phone and youknow I'm I'm a beast at looking,
(32:35):
checking my phone every fewminutes and I see okay, I got a
couple of missed calls.
I called back and she asked meyou know, I called a couple of
times.
You didn't answer.
Yeah, my ringer was down, Ididn't know it, that's that.
Yeah, exactly, and you're notcalling back the next day.
It's like you know, within anhour or whatever.
A lot of times I'm not able toanswer no calls because when I'm
(32:55):
working on my clients, myattention is on my client.
I'm not going to be on thephone, like you say.
If it's an instance where I gettwo calls back to back, okay,
what's up?
People call me all day.
I get to you when I get to you,when I get exactly right.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
So then the contradiction is this you're
gonna love this.
If a man is texting you all daylong, that man is not busy
enough what wow right, you seehow he's just messing with
people that's crazy.
A lot of people will say womendon't know what they want
because, you'll ask for this,you'll ask for that, but then
when you get, it turns out it'snot what you want.
You wanted something else.
(33:25):
Well, this is too much of it.
I want a sensitive man.
Well, it doesn't get cryingshit I don't want that anymore.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I don't like that you know.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I'm feeling safe now because he's weak right.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
So now, just because he cries, doesn't mean he's weak
.
Of course not.
No, no, of course not.
Of course not.
That's not what.
No, no, no, that's not whatwe're saying.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
We're saying that her , yeah, exactly as well, exactly
, but the whole they don't knowwhat they want is what he's
playing on right now that's whatI was gonna he's playing on
that essentially trying tocreate women who, no matter what
type of healthy relationship inthere, they're, internally
gonna feel unstable, insecureand always suspicious he's on
those seas of doubt and you sayhe has how many followers I'm
(34:05):
convinced that social media isabout making the human race
regress.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I don't know how many say he has how many followers.
I'm convinced that social mediais about making the human race
regress.
I don't know how many followershe has.
I haven't been on his page, butwhen I saw this clip that this
woman shared, I saw that it hadbeen viewed I want to say 20,000
, 30,000 times Wow.
So these are videos that arebeing shared.
That's probably going to hit amillion views easily.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
So again he's pandering to a particular
segment.
Yeah, big time, and they eatingit up.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
It would not have gotten that much traction had it
not been for people sharing it,yeah, and if you're sharing it
because you're like oh, Ibelieve this, let me share with
my homegirls, Let me just put onmy page, or to send messages to
them.
Are they really believe in itor they're sharing this?
Do you understand this clown?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
No, I don't think so I think is, you know, they
probably have experiencedsomething in their life that he
may have said and oh he on it.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, that struck a chord.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
No, that brain.
Yeah, he on something, but heain't on that yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I have one more that's interesting here.
Don't ask men that haven't hada job in the last five years,
walking around talking about I'mthe prize, I'm the prize.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Well, he needs to get a job.
Yeah, number one.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
So what do we agree?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I think this is what I want to give him, so I'll give
him a pass and go all right.
Cool, Because number one.
You're not the prize.
Number one.
I don't think any of us shouldbe walking around going I'm the
prize.
You can say, hey, this is whatI bring to the table.
I have a lot of confidence inwho I am.
I know that if someone getswith me, that I will add value
to their lives.
But this phrase of I'm theprize, as if I need to be chased
(35:42):
and pursued and you know, Ithink that's again to use that
word that I used earlier I thinkit's dangerous for men to start
thinking that way but you know,you know, there are men who
believe that.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Well, you know, kevin salmon used to say that all the
time the high value man is theprize the women you know,
because women always say thatthey're the prize and he always
would say a high value man isthe prize.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Because he brings so much to the table but if you've
not worked in five years you'recertainly not a damn prize.
Well, if you you're a bum atthat point, absolutely, and if
even with that right, to whom?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
because you could be the prize to someone who has no
hope of meeting someone likeyourself.
If you go into the bottom ofthe barrel and you scrape
someone from the bottom of thebarrel, sure you're the prize
right, but to a woman who has aself-worth, who takes care of
herself, who brings all thesethings to the table, whether
they be physical, financial orall the intangibles.
(36:36):
You're not the price.
You guys basically complementeach other in a way that allow
both of you to grow.
So that's why I don't like thatphrase at all of who's the
prize, because if you believethat she's the prize, there's a
problem in that relationship.
Right, you can't live withouther.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You put her above you and then there you go, you got
a problem.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yeah, I agree with that key takeaways, knowing that
there's been multiple, maybedifferent versions of people
like this on social media.
It definitely challenges me froma therapy standpoint to
continue to do the work oftalking with men and women and
marriages and couples, because,on one hand, we're kind of
fighting against social media.
Yeah, people who are strugglingin marriage and stuff are
probably going to hear fromsocial media before they hear
(37:13):
from a therapist, right?
I think I said earlier, vina,you said something off the air
and I was like man, like that'sold school wisdom.
People are going to hear socialmedia before you even hear old
school wisdom, right.
So I think one it's justchallenging me to put more of
that out there, becausesomething's got to combat this
nonsense, right, and I think too, I think it's just reminding me
man, like whether you're highvalue men or high value women,
the value is not just on thethings that you bring but how
(37:36):
you serve the person that yousay you love, versus how me
using that stuff to make myselflook good or to be entitled, you
know.
So whoever this dude is, shutshis page down and eventually
he's like man, this was trash.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
That may never happen , but yeah, like I said I
mentioned earlier before westarted recording with derrick
jackson right because he waswriting books and he was always
like shitting on men.
Well, if a man loves you, he'sgonna know within the first five
minutes he's gonna do this.
He don't show up.
You need to go and kick thatman to the curb again.
You're not taking any of thevariants into consideration.
Yeah, the man ain't call youback in five minutes.
You don't love you.
(38:07):
Wait a minute.
What?
What is he doing?
Yeah, what's happening in thatrelationship?
Right, exactly, context mattersand when you throw things out
there like that that are out ofcontext or without context,
without shaping, it again, itcreates a situation to where
you're gonna have this genderwar that's gonna propagate.
and the worst thing and again tome, again, which is the biggest
issue that I have is that it'saffecting us as people more than
(38:29):
it's affecting any other race,because they still know who the
hell they are and they know whatthey got going on in their
household.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And they don't have the same problem that we have to
deal with.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Very true.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
And I think with this gentleman he's doing the same
thing that Kevin Samuels, theother guy you mentioned, steve
Harvey.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
That's another one.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, they find they find things that are within our
community, that are issued.
They pander to the womenbecause they know they're the
ones that's gonna listen andthey're gonna buy the books,
they're gonna listen to the, thepodcast or whatever, and and
it's all about the clicks andand the purchases and all that
because back when they had theirbook, think like a man with
(39:10):
with Steve Harvey.
My thing was you know some ofthe things, a lot of the things
they were saying yeah, you canrelate that to some men, but he
was doing that like it wasacross the board.
All of us think the same wayand everybody, everybody doesn't
think the same way, we're not amonolith Right.
You know, we all have differentbackgrounds, different
upbringings, so the way weprocess, the way we handle
(39:32):
certain situations is going tobe unique to each and every one
of us.
But the way he painted it islike.
This is how men think ingeneral.
It's coming from a man, so, oh,it must be true.
Yeah, he's giving all thesecrets.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Yeah, he's giving the secrets.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
He be true, yeah, he's giving all the secrets he's
giving.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Yeah, he's getting secrets.
He tell you what you want tohear right, so you can buy his
book.
Like you said, you know that'snot all men, and so the takeaway
is this we have to reinforceand re-educate our partner to
understand that we'reindividuals, so we're going to
operate as an individual and notpaint us with the same brush
that's been used for everyoneelse, Because again that's going
(40:10):
to diminish our relationship.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And I think podcasts like this is one of the ways
that we can combat that.
Correct when you have differentopinions from different men
from different backgrounds,because we're thinking logically
, you know, and we're notblanketing everything and
everyone is the same way.
That's probably what is needed.
Let's not just let him be theonly voice that's heard.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, if they seek us out, then they'll find us.
We're not.
We're not making enoughcontroversial statements to get
the likes and the clicks.
One thing about podcasts isthat it's an evergreen medium.
This conversation can be heardin 2040, right so, because it's
always going to be needed rightso yeah, great point, gentlemen
yeah, I appreciate you guys somuch for being on the podcast
(40:55):
with me today and having thiswonderful conversation.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, it's one wonderful day to start my son
yeah, um.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
So now we have to do the outro, so who you gonna be
vino?
Speaker 1 (41:05):
I was looking at rocky last night.
I think I'm going to doSylvester Stallone Hold on.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
He's like I got to get right.
Hey, y'all, please support our.
See, I'm already sad, yourAdrian.
Please support us by followingthe show Me and Pauly.
We left a five-star review onthis Apple podcast.
(41:38):
Thank you all for listening.
We'll catch you next week whenwe share conversations
surrounding real issues we dealwith.
You know every, every, hey,paulie, paulie, tell me what
(41:59):
this word is.
Every day, every day.
You know manhood, manhoodmatters.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
We're out, yeah, man yeah man, way to get into it,
buddy, way to get into it.
But manhood matters, we're out.
Yeah man.
Yeah man, way to get into it,buddy, way to get into it.
That's what's up.
All good, pauly.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
That was great.
The pauses were yeah.
The pauses were yeah.
It took me back to thatphysical strife hustling heart,
repulsive life, increased loveand our entrepreneurs climb real
tall echoes in fine time.
Experts and friends.
A powerful blend tacklingissues that never end.
(42:35):
From our perspective, we'retrue, a podcast for all but our
point of view.
And I didn't have a problem with it because that's
what attracted me to her how shelooked.
I'm confident in my situation.
We had conversations, Iexpressed the opinions of other
people.
I wasn't trying to tell her sheshould change, but just be
knowledgeable, you know.
And her retort was okay.
That's their problem, because Iknow who I am as a person.
(00:20):
I'm not loose, I'm not this.
I'm about my business.
I look good in what I wear andI like to wear what I want to
wear.
Cool, if you like it, I love it.
Yeah, when I would get this?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Welcome back family.
Do you guys remember this guy?
I believe his name is DerekJackson.
He was on the internet as theself-appointed savior of all
women either in or wanting arelationship.
He'd spend a lot of his timebeing judgmental and cracking
down on men.
In general, a lot of his advicewas actually quite good, except
the person who needed DerekJackson's advice the most was,
(00:58):
in fact, derek Jackson.
While this man was telling theworld what to do, he had a whole
wife at home who was battered,abused, humiliated, cheated on.
But he was writing books andtelling the world how to
navigate their relationships.
Well, where there's a cat,there's a copy.
So now this other dude hastaken up the mental, except that
(01:20):
he's a tad more, shall I say,flamboyant.
Now.
Normally I'd scroll right pastthis type of content.
It has nothing to do with me,but the reason it came to my
attention is because it's beingshared by sisters.
I don't see any otherethnicities taking this dude
seriously.
Maybe they figured out that ifthey want actual relationship
(01:41):
advice, they'll go to aprofessional and not some guy on
Facebook.
So what we'll do in thisepisode is play clips so you can
form your own opinion.
Is the advice good?
Is he right?
Is it dangerous?
Is he enticing a gender war?
What's his agenda Now?
After each quote, we willrespond.
(02:01):
I am your host, stefan, and I amjoined at the Men's Refinery in
Conyers, georgia, by one of theowners, vino Sanders, who's
been married for 23 years,merlin Knight, a corporate giant
, and Quentin Opong, a happilymarried young therapist who
works with our youth and youngcouples.
This one's going to be specialand I'm dying to hear your
(02:22):
feedback, so don't forget toemail us.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's going to be special andI'm dying to hear your feedback,
so don't forget to email us.
(02:43):
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Then I'm going to ask you guysto just give me your thoughts on
it.
Okay, all right, you ready?
Yeah, all right, cool, so noman with real money cares if
she's a gold digger.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
They just don't.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So my question is what is considered real money?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
If you can afford to pay for whatever she needs,
wants.
I guess that could be relativeright, Because some people with
real money could be like if I'mmaking $10,000 a month, I'm
great, and some people will notgreat until they're making
$100,000 a month.
So we don't know.
So we're going to say someonewho is at least at a $200,000
mark a year.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I've heard women say if you're not making $250,000,
at least you can't take me, youcan't be with me.
So I'm going to open up with ahot take, right, and it's
because of what I see in therapy.
It might not be a hot take, buta lot of times women I'm
noticing, particularly in ourcontext, black women they're
oftentimes looking for anotherfather figure than a partner or
husband, and that's why I have aproblem with that statement,
(03:43):
because ultimately, what it'sdoing is putting men in this
position of as long as you're aman and you can just spend money
on this woman, then she's goodand you're good as a man.
All she needs for you to justkeep providing, providing right,
and I'm not saying that as menwe're not providers, but it
almost pits men in.
Just as long as you can do that, you're good, right.
(04:04):
And it puts this woman in asituation where a woman is not
seen as a partner.
But ask for everything you want, and it's a man, can take care
of it.
It's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Only thing I want to push back on here is this that's
not a woman saying this.
I don't want to blame the women.
That's not their thought that'sfair, because they didn't say
it.
This dude is saying it, that'sfair, and he's almost speaking
to the women and preachingalmost on their behalf, when in
reality it's just him sayingthat stuff.
I think it's a dangerous,that's a statement.
But how do we respond topossibly a woman hearing this
thinking?
(04:32):
Here's a man saying that.
No man with real money care ifI'm a gold digger does he really
know what a real man?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
obviously he doesn't.
For him to spew out his mouthto say that real man with money
doesn't care if she's a golddigger, whereas we have sisters.
We don't want them being golddiggers, right?
So they're putting themselvesin a situation where they're
able to now be abused ormanipulated because of the fact
that I'm going to buy youwhatever it is, but you do
(05:00):
exactly what I say.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Now they're controlling you.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Yes, yes, so that is not a true statement at all and
he should be ashamed for sayingthis is a white dude talking to
our sisters, right?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
yeah for some reason they decided they want to share
that shit.
But to your point, if a womanis being purchased, you're being
owned it's transactional.
Yeah, it's transactional, Iknow you're not really really
for me because of anything otherthan the money.
So in that case, I'm going toact that way.
If I buy a machine, I want itto work a certain way.
I expect it to work a certainway, or I'm sending it back.
(05:33):
I'm going to complain.
I want it to do what it'ssupposed to do.
And if I buy a gold digger,what do I need it to do for me?
Exactly, exactly.
You don't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And the thing is we have a real life scenario of
that right now Playing out,Dealing with, you know, Sean
Collins.
He actually, during the timethat he was with this young lady
that he's in court with now, hehad a relationship with another
woman.
Evidently he did not treat herthe same way that he treated
this other woman, because herstandards were a little bit
(06:03):
different and he couldn't getaway with some of the things
that he got away with this otherwoman, not to speak on her
being a victim.
She caused her own demise.
But when you put yourself incertain positions you're going
to get certain results.
You know, I have a daughter andone of the things I tell her is
be reliant on yourself If youfind a man that is willing to
(06:24):
provide for you that's fine, butdon't let that be the deciding
factor as to whether or not, youwant to be with him.
Because men typically if they'rein that position, as you
mentioned, I now own you, so Ican do and say and treat you any
way that I choose to, becauseyou are here for a purpose.
(06:44):
Long as I'm providing thatpurpose, then you have no say so
.
Yeah, you have no rights, yeah,you have no complaints.
I think that's the message thatgentleman is saying when he
says that he's putting thesewomen in these positions?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
by allowing them to believe that.
His business is working becauseit's all about clicks and likes
and shares because, you havethese women who have been maybe
victimized because maybe theyhad a horrible relationship.
All of a sudden they want toput all men in one bucket and
they love sharing stuff likethat.
But the reason again that Ithink is dangerous is because it
perpetuates this stigma aboutblack women that is not even
(07:21):
real.
They're taking a subset of thepopulation and they're saying
this is everything, this iseveryone.
This is everyone.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
This is how it should be, and I think to your point,
his agenda unfortunately, I talkto people about in different
spaces is it stifles ouridentity.
Because, as a man, if you getcaught up and bought into the
idea that all you should be ableto do is just throw money at
your wife or at your woman whenit's time to provide emotional
(07:47):
yeah, support, when it's time toprovide mental support, when
it's time to be a father, whenit's time to do other things
than just that thing, it's like,well, what am I supposed to do?
You?
Speaker 5 (07:55):
know and I've already paid for this exactly it also
then turns the table back to thewoman.
So, because social media isgiving them this, this platform,
but believing that all he hasto do is toss a dollar at you or
three dollars at you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
All of a sudden.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
Now you are the criminal of the crim.
So what does it say about youas a person?
So, because you're now allowingthis guy to say that I'm going
to be that provider, but more so, I'm really just going to be
the purchaser.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
And I have a receipt.
So when I'm done with it, it'snot a provider, it's a purchaser
.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Yeah, and when I'm, when I'm done with that one yeah
, yeah, when I'm done with it, Ican cash in and or return it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, and for the newest model, and that's exactly
what will happen, you know, andnot only does it poison the
mind of our women, but you thinkabout these young guys that are
hearing this, you know.
It takes me back to this songall of us are familiar with.
You're not tricking if you gotit.
Yeah, you still are trickingyou just right you just spending
(08:55):
more.
But it leaves the idea withthese young men that all I have
to do is acquire this money andand I can treat women any kind
of way yeah.
And that's the wrong messagethat's being put out there.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Well, like you said, you have daughters, I have
sisters, nine to be exact, so Iwould never want them to be in a
situation where someone issaying I'm going to be that
provider, then all I do isprovide the financial aspect to
it when that shoe turns.
Yeah, I need more than justyour dollar.
So, who becomes the gold diggerat that point?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So next thing that he says Women should be gold
diggers.
Women should look for aprovider.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
What's wrong with that?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Man, somebody needs to take this.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Oh hey, listen.
Hundreds and thousands of viewshe sounds like a woman he does.
It's that gender war baiting.
Yes, it's so much of thatnonsense, but it sells right,
and all I'm trying to do isexpose it for what it actually
is.
That guy doesn't give a shitabout you.
He doesn't.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
He doesn't care about how women know anything like
that, right, but it gets clicksthat second quote, I think, is
dialing me in on his agenda,because he's really and I think
you said that, stefan he'spandering to the pain of women
and I get this aspect, like I'veheard.
Women share this desire to getto a place where they're in
their soft girl era, right surethey're in this place where they
(10:23):
can let down.
They don't have to feel thepressure of having to provide
for a family or having to be theperson that takes care of
everybody, and so that's whathe's really pandering to, but
it's a twisted form of itExactly Because actually I agree
that there is nothing wrongwith women wanting to have a
provider in their lives, and Ido agree that women should be in
their soft area.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
That's where you belong.
I need to be in my masculinearea.
That's how lies.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
That's how we are right.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
That's my philosophy.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And I should do everything I can to work a
million hours a day to provideand do all I can for my family
and I don't want, you know, mywife with a pickaxe in the field
you know doing that stuff.
That being said, a gold diggershe's not.
So when you mix the two of them, you say hey women should be
gold diggers.
They should look for providers.
And those two differentsubjects, that's good.
Women should look for providers.
(11:08):
That's true if that's yourthing.
And again, it depends on howmuch of that independence you
want to give up, because thesecond you look for a provider
and you can't do for yourself,there's certain independence
that is lost not that weshouldn't provide as men.
My wife's friend was visiting usa couple of days ago and she
was telling us about this ordealat the airport and this guy was
(11:30):
, you know, livid because it wascustomer service, things were
bad and his wife was in line.
So he started making a sceneand then the wife was like honey
, you're embarrassing us, you'remaking a scene.
And he yelled at her and hesaid get your ass out the line.
My wife's friend was telling usthis and my wife was like wait,
what what'd she do?
She goes, she got her ass outthe line, yeah, yeah, basically
she's kept exactly, she's kept,that's actually the word they
(11:52):
use.
She's kept yeah, and so whenyou're in that situation and
someone in public yells at youand say get your ass over here,
what do you do but get your assover here because they remove
themselves from understandingwho they are.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
Correct To allow some man or woman, because it goes
both ways for them, to just moveover to the side and be silent,
because they've now releasedthemselves so they can be
provided for.
It's not always financial.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
There you go.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
It's not always financial.
So if you're looking for aprovider, it doesn't have to be
a financial provider.
But if that provider is givingyou the insight that you need,
that doesn't mean you're kept,that doesn't mean that you're
submissive, that means thatyou're in a relationship.
But for him to say that theyneed to be kept women again, it
(12:40):
just says a lot about him.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And out of all the things that we provide as men,
money is the only thing that weprovide that diminishes in a way
the woman, if I provide safetyin my home.
Something goes bang in themiddle of the night.
I'm up.
Wife doesn't have to be up.
She knows Steph's here, we'reprotected.
If we're out, she knows we'reprotected.
I provide that, but she doesn'tfeel less than because of it
(13:04):
protected.
I provide that, but she doesn'tfeel less than because of it If
I provide prayer you know, and Icover her prayer again, she
doesn't feel less than becauseshe will tell you, my man prays
over me every day.
But if she's got no financialmeans whatsoever and I'm that
guy who's just paying all themoney, there's something about
it.
I think as human beings wherewe just feel like we're a little
less than because we don't likethat feeling of having to rely
(13:25):
on.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
And power.
Those two things have gone handin hand to where the more money
you have, the more power youhave, and so if you don't have
money, the less power you have.
And that's unfortunate, likeeven when you talk about
marriage and partnership.
Like my wife, for instance,there is so much value that she
adds to my life that I couldn'tbuy, correct.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's price.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
It's like who I'm becoming as a man, as a
therapist.
Even sometimes making sure Idon't run around with my head
cut off is because sometimesthere's just there's an
intangible things that sheprovides that I could have all
the money in the world and ifshe was gone I would crash in a
heartbeat.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
You know I'm saying and you just led to my very next
statement, because what shebrings, the intangible things
that she brings- because thenext statement he makes is this
listen if a man asks you whatyou bring to the table.
That man has a low credit score.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Wow, oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
So we're not even allowed, as men, to ask a woman
what she brings to the table,because in his mind, I think
it's smarter than this.
It's no different than Trump.
I think he does have twopendants to his base.
I think this dude is doing theexact same thing.
In that way, you know damn wellwhat we mean when we say what
do you bring to the table.
I'm not asking you to pay thelight bill yeah I'm asking you
for something else and theintention was, like you said.
(14:42):
She keeps you together, shemakes you better, she makes you
grow.
If you're dating just to sleeparound, that's a different story
.
But you're dating to be inrelationships, that question is
going to come up.
What he's training them tobelieve is, if someone asks you,
that he got a 500 credit score.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Run.
He's making the whole thingabout money and a true
partnership, a true relationship.
It goes beyond that.
You have a mental, you havespiritual, you have so many
other factors that are involvedin relationship.
The money aspect of it can beworked out.
I've been married 23 yearsAwesome.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And I play the role, the traditional role, of a
husband.
I try to take care ofeverything, you know.
Of course, she has her ownthings that she take care of,
but the majority of stuff I takecare of because that's my role.
But there are times where shemay have to step in.
That doesn't lessen me as a manand it doesn't lessen her as a
woman, correct, you know?
(15:38):
Because we're working as apartnership and what he's saying
is, if you got to step in, thatsomething is wrong.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
that thinking is primitive there you go, that's
the word for it.
Yeah, almost like you want tolook at the dude and go hey, you
know what?
We wish you a speedy evolution,my friend.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, next quote.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's really hard to respect a man that you have to
pay for.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Now I get that Even if you ask me out, I'm still not
going to let you pay.
So if I can't afford to pay, ifthat's my situation, it's just
not going out, I might miss thatentirely, because that's just a
pride thing in me.
Now, when you're in arelationship with someone, like
you said, you run your ownbusiness and you could have a
good month, a bad month.
Things could happen.
There could be money that couldbe allocated elsewhere.
You can't touch it.
There's a lot of differentvariables and wife steps in Now.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
as men, as real men, this eats me up, no because if
you're in that relationship,that doesn't diminish you as a
man.
That's a partnership.
It doesn't make you less of aman.
No, I don't think it does.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I don't think it diminishes you.
I'm saying that it makes mefeel a certain way pridefully,
where.
I just feel less You're right,you shouldn't.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
This is my own head, because sometimes you have to
get out of your own head.
You just said the key word it'spride In a relationship that
pride is no place for it.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You have to survive as a unit, not to mention if you
have children.
You have to survive whatever ittakes as a unit, so I have no
place for pride.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I struggle with that it's real though.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's being transparent.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
If you're having a bad month and then that month
turns into three, what does thatsay to the family?
Because of your pride prideyou've not allowed your partner
to expose herself or involveherself in the situation.
You've created a sense, a toxicrelationship.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
That's really good.
Y'all are challenging him, butit's even it's challenging me,
because she did also say thevows yeah, you know, she also
took the same.
There wasn't a quota.
She also said in sickness andin hell broke or rich.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
She said it too, so that's yeah, that's.
That's hit me as a man.
You, you certainly want to makesure you're providing for the
family or doing what needs to be, but if it's a first date and
she asked you out, go nigga, Iain't going.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
If I don't have the money, I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
The thing is, your first date Is about getting To
know that person Correct, andthem getting To know you.
That doesn't always Constitutethat you have to Spend money to
do that.
Like you said, you can go tothe park.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, get some ice cream, get ice cream cone.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
I still need money For ice cream, but sure, if it's
broke broke, go to the park.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Better yet broke, broke don't date.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I was going to add to that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I was going to say you're not in a position to be
in a relationship.
You need to work yourself outof that mess first, but that's a
different conversation.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And to add to that, I wouldn't say I do agree in the
standpoint of if you're broke.
I got married I was still in mymaster's program and I was at
an internship.
I was probably bringing inmaybe less than a grand a month.
My wife was working full-timeshe held it down right my uncle.
Actually at the time he gave mesome really good advice.
She was like he was like man,if you guys are dating, you
(18:43):
ready to get married and if thelord has told you to do it
because if her character and howshe treats you now, when you
don't got money, is great, youcan trust her that when you do
like, it's going to be equallygreat.
And my dad was on the oppositeand my dad was like if the woman
makes more money than you, shewon't respect you, she won't
respect you.
And I remember I almost tookthat to heart.
Yeah, man, the foundation.
(19:05):
I think what he was trying tosay was as a man, don't be lazy.
I think it's a healthy level.
Take some pride in being ableto provide and take care for
your family.
Obviously, I think hecommunicated it the wrong way, I
think, or in a way that wasunhealthy.
So I do think there's a levelsometimes where you do, as a man
, want to take that pressure offof your spouse you know, you
(19:25):
don't want them to feel thepressure of rent is due again or
mortgage is due again.
You know what I yeah, it's ourjob.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I'm on my way to being a multimillionaire and I
told my wife I'm going to retireyou in two years.
Right, that's awesome.
First thing she said to me wasyou're not retiring me, I'm
going to keep bringing in money.
Because again to that firstpoint, she's like I don't ever
want to be in that situation towhere I don't feel like I have
control of things.
It was like oh, I can't totallygive up what I feel is my
(19:54):
agency at any point in time andI'm like you wouldn't.
You know me, that's not thecase and she's just like it's in
my own head.
I would not be in thatsituation.
So, whether I help you run thebusiness, whatever it is, but
it's some kind of way I'mearning.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
And it's so funny you say that because when you were
speaking about the couple thatwas in the airport, I start
remembering one of my friendswhose wife is in that situation.
It's like huh, you didn'treally think about it.
You've seen it, but you didn'treally think about it.
I've heard him say I make thedecision, whatever I say goes.
Then I look over at her andshe's just, that's it.
(20:27):
She's quiet, quiet.
Even the children's creditcards are all under him.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
That is definitely controlled, and you know, to me
that speaks also to the man.
You know, this is my ownpersonal opinion that speaks to
a form of insecurity on his partTo even want someone that
doesn't have a voice.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I don't personally understand that, because if I'm
involved with someone, I don'twant another child.
You know what I'm saying?
Correct?
That's what you do with yourchildren.
You tell them look, hey, getyour butt over here.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
And they move.
That's a child.
I don't want to have arelationship with another child.
I want my woman.
You know she ain't got to bearguing with me all the time,
but at least have some dignityabout yourself.
Yeah, you know, have someself-worth.
If I'm coming off the mouthslick, at least look at me like
I'm crazy, like what up, bruh.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
You need to have someone who will challenge you
on that.
I've learned a while back youshow people and you tell people
how you want to be treated.
Maybe you don't do this foranyone else, but this is what
you do for me.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
It goes back to Maya Angelou saying when they show
you who they are believe them.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
The first are believe them.
Yes, sir, the first time.
Yeah, man, just to even goingback to what you said, you know
men can feel being a marriagefor a long time and then end up
feeling alone and the pressureso much eventually mentally they
can't take it no more, eitherbecause of them or these social
media people.
They've created a family whereeverything they're carrying, it
all carrying it all to the pointthey don't have to there's a
partner in the relationship, youknow, and so I think that's one
(21:58):
of the negative effects.
Sometimes, when you get to aplace where you're like your
wife is also like a kid, andthere's no voice.
And there's even in the bible,right, I know, sometimes in the
christian space we've used thewhole wife submits your husband,
man, um, you're the leader ofyour home sometimes to belittle
women.
Women and something that I'veoften shared with women, you
know, when the Bible says thatGod wanted to create someone for
(22:19):
Adam, who was a help meet forhim, that word helper or help
meet is actually the same wordthey use for the Holy Spirit,
which is the other part of theTrinity, god, right, and that
word helper is basically sayingthat this woman is equally met
to be able to help the man.
And so I often tell women likeyou're not just helping, like
the help, you've literally beenput on the same level in some
(22:41):
ways as the holy spirit in aman's life.
Like that is very powerful.
I think all of us men, weshould want a woman that can
speak, can challenge us, can sayyou tripping right here, bro,
like, can call out the booger inour nose so that we don't go
out there looking crazy you knowright.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So anyway, good point .
He has another one here if aman cares about how much money
you make.
He's scheming, scheming for todo it.
That's a well, I guess that's aquestion from a real man, right
?
Because I'm like what do youmean?
I'm scheming, scheming for what?
Speaker 5 (23:09):
but you want to move, but you want her to be a gold
digger, exactly right the Right,the double standard, no, no.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Listen, he contradicts himself all the time
but again you can tell.
Is the audience going toanalyze this and say, wait a
second?
this makes no sense Right,Because the audience is just
clicking likes and sharingbecause they want to send a
message to one person inparticular.
When I met my wife, thingsmoved pretty rapidly.
She was just like this is howmuch money I make.
(23:35):
That's what the bonus lookslike, Because the goal was we're
going to put our assetstogether and we're going to put
our heads together and thiseffort together so we can fight
this thing called life.
So it makes sense that we havethese discussions about finances
.
But he's looking at itdifferently.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Depending on, like you said, how fast the
relationship is moving.
That's an important topic thatfalls in line with how you want
to raise your kids.
Again, what your religiousbeliefs are what you expect as a
husband and a wife and thefinancial aspect of it.
What are you bringing?
What am I bringing?
When we come together, whatwe'll be able to do as a unit,
(24:06):
that's an adult relationship.
That's a word right.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
That's adulting.
Yeah, how do we not talk about?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
yeah, that's that's not scheming, you know what is?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
he 16 no, dude, he's a grown man, I would say late
30s probably, maybe a littleyounger, who knows?
Because he's definitely, like Isaid, social media influencing
and I guess you can go back toasking what his upbringing look.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
Yeah, you know, a lot of times I find that people
like that.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
He may have had a normal upbringing, but he found
a niche correct okay he'sexploiting that niche.
Okay, you're going to like thisone.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
If the man is insecure about you, he thinks
that you are better than him.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
You know what's funny about that?
I feel like that's one of thosegender double standards, like
that word in general, right,sometimes it can get an overly
negative or a shamingconnotation.
So if you're insecure, oh man,you're insecure when really
insecurity is, I don't feel safe.
Say that one more time.
Insecurity just means I don'tfeel safe.
Say that one more time.
Insecurity just means I don'tfeel safe, right, and so first
let's just say if the man doesfeel insecure, I don't think the
(25:13):
first solution is to just shamehim.
Let's talk about it.
Why don't you feel safe with megoing out and doing this?
And that?
Is this something that you'veexperienced, right?
Great?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
point.
But you know, that's exactlywhat it is A good majority of
the time.
If we expose that insecurity,which is simply, when you put it
that way, you explain what itis.
I don't feel safe in thissituation.
I don't feel safe with you.
We're made to feel ashamed forexposing that.
You're insecure because youknow I look good, I'm going out,
you know.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And I think it also stems it could be from past
trauma.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
They could have been in a previous relationship.
The man that is.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Okay, yeah, if he was in a previous relationship and,
let's say, significant othercheated on him and she was with
her girls when she did it, thatcould generate this unsafe
feeling.
Okay, you going out with yourgirlfriends the last time and
it's my last time that happened.
Dexter showed up, so yeah, Idon't want you To go out with
(26:09):
your girlfriends.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Because of my personal trauma.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Yeah, is that fair?
No, that's not fair, that's notfair.
So then, that's that's the partwhen you talk about it, right?
Yeah, that's all that is.
That's to your point.
I think that's past trauma,yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Not so much insecurity.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Is past trauma and he's acting on that past trauma
that's a good distinction tomake.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Sometimes an insecurity can come from past
trauma.
Sometimes it just could be likea safety, because if it's a
past trauma, now we can talkthrough it.
And how do we get over the hump?
Because ultimately it's notfair to the women, either
because you're making her umresponsible for what happened to
you in the past and she's not.
She's not that person.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Exactly she's not so to your point, she should have
the presence of mind to say thisperson that I care very much
about is feeling possibly unsafein this particular situation.
Let's talk about it, let'saddress it Right, because you
can say the last time thishappened I was dating someone
who went on a girl strip and Idon't want that to be.
Speaker 5 (27:04):
She ran into Dexter.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
She ran into Dexter you know, on the beach in
Jamaica Dexter finna become thepseudonym for it's always Dexter
bro.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
You know, hey Gial, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
You're doing.
Beautiful woman by yourself,beautiful woman like you.
Wait, you're.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Jamaican.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
No, I'm not Gosh.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
That was good, that was good.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But everybody knows that, that's Eddie.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Murphy right.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
So I think it's your responsibility to say I feel
this way, but it's also herresponsibility to say what's
making you feel this way.
If you care enough about eachother, you kind of step in to
say let's address this.
The reason we were attractedphysically before we did
anything is before she openedher mouth.
We saw her, we were like, ohshit, this is someone I'd like
to talk to, this is someone Ican see myself being with, and
then you proceeded from there.
(27:49):
So that hasn't changed.
Sometimes, you know, over time,they look even better.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Sometimes, they don't .
I don't know, but the wholeinsecurity thing is one of those
things where I don't think itmeans that we think she's better
than we are or that she's abovemy station.
Now there's legitimateinsecurities.
Maybe there's no traumawhatsoever, maybe it's just I
don't want you wearing thatbecause you look a little
scandalous in that I don't wantyou going out.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
You got to ask the question when you met her was
she dressing that way?
Yeah, that's a good point,that's a really good point, and
if the answer is no, you know,then you have to look at, okay.
You have to look at okay, whyall of a sudden now you decided
you want to dress this way?
It reminds me when I wasyounger, I dated a young woman.
When I met her, you know, shealways dressed Conservative.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
No, oh hot the direct opposite.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Okay, she was that girl.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, she was that girl Walk in the room, everybody
turning around like whoa, youknow, she was that girl.
Once we started dating shedidn't change the way she
dressed.
And, my friends, man, you, youknow, you let your girl go out
like that.
You know you, and I didn't havea problem with it because
that's what attracted me to herright how she looked.
I'm like, why would I want tochange?
(29:00):
I'm confident in my situation,you know.
I'm saying because we hadconversations and I expressed
the opinions of other people andI was doing that more or less
to just kind of make her aware.
I wasn't trying to tell her sheshould change, but just be
knowledgeable, you know.
And her retort was OK.
That's their problem, because Iknow who I am as a person.
(29:21):
I'm not loose, I'm not this.
I'm about my business.
I look good in what I wear andI like to wear what I want to
wear.
Cool, if you like it, I love it.
Yeah, when I would get thisfeedback from my boys, I had to
look into myself and say, okay,am I gonna?
Speaker 5 (29:37):
allow their opinion, the peer pressure to mess up my
relationship.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
So my thing was you know, hey, I ain't got a problem
with it yeah and you know wedated for many years.
See you, my cousin man, youcrazy.
I would never let my girl Well,that's your girl, that's why
you having problems.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
But it goes back to that now you're spending more
time with her versus them, solet's see if we can build a
wedge in between this.
So we have to be mindful ofwhen we are dating and when we
finally get married.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
That's the same with girlfriends.
They do the same thing, andwhen we finally get married.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
That's the same with girlfriends.
They do the same thing.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I was going to say they do the exact thing I was
going to say I guess they do,but I have never had a friend
like that, and if I do, I don'tknow him.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I don't know who that is.
I don't have any friends likethat Because.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I can imagine.
We're hanging out all the time,merlin, and all of a sudden you
find this girl that you'resuper happy with and all of a
sudden I feel like, oh, youdon't spend as much time with me
, no more.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Nick what are you talking about?
But honestly B you have thoseguys that are.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I think it may be more or less envy that you have
that woman and they don't Likewith some women.
They see a woman with a goodman and they don't have one.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
So you know they do little things to sabotage.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Misery loves company where you got your friends, your
boys, you know they oh man, heain't the same, no more, since
he got with old girl, you know?
No, I'm not that's right,that's right I'm not, that's
right.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
I was gonna say why would you want me to be the same
?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
because they are stuck, yeah, yeah, and they want
you to be stuck with them rightnow, bro I got one here.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
That's where he just contradicts himself over the
next two statements.
One statement is he's out notresponding to your text with God
knows who, Probably that hoe,let's see who can be the bigger
hoe.
This is again.
Remind you, this is a mansaying this to women.
You're not always in meetingslooking at your text responding
(31:27):
immediately.
If my wife calls me to text me,I don't respond.
She chills.
But, she knows I'm probably witha customer Right.
Something's happening.
If she calls me twice and shecalls me once, I don't answer.
She calls me right back.
Whatever I'm doing, I'mdropping Because I'm like my
wife never does this.
This might be an emergency.
And then she's like I'm sorry,I butt dialed you.
I'm like, come on, man, but menot responding to your text in
(31:51):
whatever you deem a reasonabletime does not mean I'm doing
anything wrong, and that's whathe's basically saying.
So you know what?
Why don't I jump the gun and gobe a hoe?
Speaker 4 (31:59):
because he's probably being a hoe so he just sees a
mistrust and, on the flip side,even if he was right, is that
really how you want to respond,tit for tat, not saying that you
should stick with him oranything like that, but what
would you want to do?
That you know, I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Well, you don't even know the situation.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
That's true as to why he's not responding to the text
yeah, like you said you jumpedin the gun for something that
you don't really know what'sgoing on like I may be looking
at something on my phone and thevolume is up and I'll turn the
volume down.
I accidentally turned down myring volume.
Okay, if I don't know this andmy wife calls, she may call a
couple.
I don't hear the phone and youknow I'm I'm a beast at looking,
(32:35):
checking my phone every fewminutes and I see okay, I got a
couple of missed calls.
I called back and she asked meyou know, I called a couple of
times.
You didn't answer.
Yeah, my ringer was down, Ididn't know it, that's that.
Yeah, exactly, and you're notcalling back the next day.
It's like you know, within anhour or whatever.
A lot of times I'm not able toanswer no calls because when I'm
(32:55):
working on my clients, myattention is on my client.
I'm not going to be on thephone, like you say.
If it's an instance where I gettwo calls back to back, okay,
what's up?
People call me all day.
I get to you when I get to you,when I get exactly right.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
So then the contradiction is this you're
gonna love this.
If a man is texting you all daylong, that man is not busy
enough what wow right, you seehow he's just messing with
people that's crazy.
A lot of people will say womendon't know what they want
because, you'll ask for this,you'll ask for that, but then
when you get, it turns out it'snot what you want.
You wanted something else.
(33:25):
Well, this is too much of it.
I want a sensitive man.
Well, it doesn't get cryingshit I don't want that anymore.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I don't like that you know.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I'm feeling safe now because he's weak right.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
So now, just because he cries, doesn't mean he's weak
.
Of course not.
No, no, of course not.
Of course not.
That's not what.
No, no, no, that's not whatwe're saying.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
We're saying that her , yeah, exactly as well, exactly
, but the whole they don't knowwhat they want is what he's
playing on right now that's whatI was gonna he's playing on
that essentially trying tocreate women who, no matter what
type of healthy relationship inthere, they're, internally
gonna feel unstable, insecureand always suspicious he's on
those seas of doubt and you sayhe has how many followers I'm
(34:05):
convinced that social media isabout making the human race
regress.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I don't know how many say he has how many followers.
I'm convinced that social mediais about making the human race
regress.
I don't know how many followershe has.
I haven't been on his page, butwhen I saw this clip that this
woman shared, I saw that it hadbeen viewed I want to say 20,000
, 30,000 times Wow.
So these are videos that arebeing shared.
That's probably going to hit amillion views easily.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
So again he's pandering to a particular
segment.
Yeah, big time, and they eatingit up.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
It would not have gotten that much traction had it
not been for people sharing it,yeah, and if you're sharing it
because you're like oh, Ibelieve this, let me share with
my homegirls, Let me just put onmy page, or to send messages to
them.
Are they really believe in itor they're sharing this?
Do you understand this clown?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
No, I don't think so I think is, you know, they
probably have experiencedsomething in their life that he
may have said and oh he on it.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, that struck a chord.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
No, that brain.
Yeah, he on something, but heain't on that yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I have one more that's interesting here.
Don't ask men that haven't hada job in the last five years,
walking around talking about I'mthe prize, I'm the prize.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Well, he needs to get a job.
Yeah, number one.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
So what do we agree?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I think this is what I want to give him, so I'll give
him a pass and go all right.
Cool, Because number one.
You're not the prize.
Number one.
I don't think any of us shouldbe walking around going I'm the
prize.
You can say, hey, this is whatI bring to the table.
I have a lot of confidence inwho I am.
I know that if someone getswith me, that I will add value
to their lives.
But this phrase of I'm theprize, as if I need to be chased
(35:42):
and pursued and you know, Ithink that's again to use that
word that I used earlier I thinkit's dangerous for men to start
thinking that way but you know,you know, there are men who
believe that.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Well, you know, kevin salmon used to say that all the
time the high value man is theprize the women you know,
because women always say thatthey're the prize and he always
would say a high value man isthe prize.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
Because he brings so much to the table but if you've
not worked in five years you'recertainly not a damn prize.
Well, if you you're a bum atthat point, absolutely, and if
even with that right, to whom?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
because you could be the prize to someone who has no
hope of meeting someone likeyourself.
If you go into the bottom ofthe barrel and you scrape
someone from the bottom of thebarrel, sure you're the prize
right, but to a woman who has aself-worth, who takes care of
herself, who brings all thesethings to the table, whether
they be physical, financial orall the intangibles.
(36:36):
You're not the price.
You guys basically complementeach other in a way that allow
both of you to grow.
So that's why I don't like thatphrase at all of who's the
prize, because if you believethat she's the prize, there's a
problem in that relationship.
Right, you can't live withouther.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
You put her above you and then there you go, you got
a problem.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yeah, I agree with that key takeaways, knowing that
there's been multiple, maybedifferent versions of people
like this on social media.
It definitely challenges me froma therapy standpoint to
continue to do the work oftalking with men and women and
marriages and couples, because,on one hand, we're kind of
fighting against social media.
Yeah, people who are strugglingin marriage and stuff are
probably going to hear fromsocial media before they hear
(37:13):
from a therapist, right?
I think I said earlier, vina,you said something off the air
and I was like man, like that'sold school wisdom.
People are going to hear socialmedia before you even hear old
school wisdom, right.
So I think one it's justchallenging me to put more of
that out there, becausesomething's got to combat this
nonsense, right, and I think too, I think it's just reminding me
man, like whether you're highvalue men or high value women,
the value is not just on thethings that you bring but how
(37:36):
you serve the person that yousay you love, versus how me
using that stuff to make myselflook good or to be entitled, you
know.
So whoever this dude is, shutshis page down and eventually
he's like man, this was trash.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
That may never happen , but yeah, like I said I
mentioned earlier before westarted recording with derrick
jackson right because he waswriting books and he was always
like shitting on men.
Well, if a man loves you, he'sgonna know within the first five
minutes he's gonna do this.
He don't show up.
You need to go and kick thatman to the curb again.
You're not taking any of thevariants into consideration.
Yeah, the man ain't call youback in five minutes.
You don't love you.
(38:07):
Wait a minute.
What?
What is he doing?
Yeah, what's happening in thatrelationship?
Right, exactly, context mattersand when you throw things out
there like that that are out ofcontext or without context,
without shaping, it again, itcreates a situation to where
you're gonna have this genderwar that's gonna propagate.
and the worst thing and again tome, again, which is the biggest
issue that I have is that it'saffecting us as people more than
(38:29):
it's affecting any other race,because they still know who the
hell they are and they know whatthey got going on in their
household.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
And they don't have the same problem that we have to
deal with.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Very true.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
And I think with this gentleman he's doing the same
thing that Kevin Samuels, theother guy you mentioned, steve
Harvey.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
That's another one.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, they find they find things that are within our
community, that are issued.
They pander to the womenbecause they know they're the
ones that's gonna listen andthey're gonna buy the books,
they're gonna listen to the, thepodcast or whatever, and and
it's all about the clicks andand the purchases and all that
because back when they had theirbook, think like a man with
(39:10):
with Steve Harvey.
My thing was you know some ofthe things, a lot of the things
they were saying yeah, you canrelate that to some men, but he
was doing that like it wasacross the board.
All of us think the same wayand everybody, everybody doesn't
think the same way, we're not amonolith Right.
You know, we all have differentbackgrounds, different
upbringings, so the way weprocess, the way we handle
(39:32):
certain situations is going tobe unique to each and every one
of us.
But the way he painted it islike.
This is how men think ingeneral.
It's coming from a man, so, oh,it must be true.
Yeah, he's giving all thesecrets.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Yeah, he's giving the secrets.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
He be true, yeah, he's giving all the secrets he's
giving.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Yeah, he's getting secrets.
He tell you what you want tohear right, so you can buy his
book.
Like you said, you know that'snot all men, and so the takeaway
is this we have to reinforceand re-educate our partner to
understand that we'reindividuals, so we're going to
operate as an individual and notpaint us with the same brush
that's been used for everyoneelse, Because again that's going
(40:10):
to diminish our relationship.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And I think podcasts like this is one of the ways
that we can combat that.
Correct when you have differentopinions from different men
from different backgrounds,because we're thinking logically
, you know, and we're notblanketing everything and
everyone is the same way.
That's probably what is needed.
Let's not just let him be theonly voice that's heard.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, if they seek us out, then they'll find us.
We're not.
We're not making enoughcontroversial statements to get
the likes and the clicks.
One thing about podcasts isthat it's an evergreen medium.
This conversation can be heardin 2040, right so, because it's
always going to be needed rightso yeah, great point, gentlemen
yeah, I appreciate you guys somuch for being on the podcast
(40:55):
with me today and having thiswonderful conversation.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, it's one wonderful day to start my son
yeah, um.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
So now we have to do the outro, so who you gonna be
vino?
Speaker 1 (41:05):
I was looking at rocky last night.
I think I'm going to doSylvester Stallone Hold on.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
He's like I got to get right.
Hey, y'all, please support our.
See, I'm already sad, yourAdrian.
Please support us by followingthe show Me and Pauly.
We left a five-star review onthis Apple podcast.
(41:38):
Thank you all for listening.
We'll catch you next week whenwe share conversations
surrounding real issues we dealwith.
You know every, every, hey,paulie, paulie, tell me what
(41:59):
this word is.
Every day, every day.
You know manhood, manhoodmatters.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
We're out, yeah, man yeah man, way to get into it,
buddy, way to get into it.
But manhood matters, we're out.
Yeah man.
Yeah man, way to get into it,buddy, way to get into it.
That's what's up.
All good, pauly.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
That was great.
The pauses were yeah.
The pauses were yeah.
It took me back to thatphysical strife hustling heart,
repulsive life, increased loveand our entrepreneurs climb real
tall echoes in fine time.
Experts and friends.
A powerful blend tacklingissues that never end.
(42:35):
From our perspective, we'retrue, a podcast for all but our
point of view.
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