October 13, 2025 • 53 mins
What if motivation isn’t the spark, but the smoke after the fire? We dig into the honest, often unspoken world of men’s body image—how we measure ourselves against the mirror and each other, and what changes when aging, fatherhood, and real life take the wheel. With Kelly Saunders and Santana Jackson, the conversation moves past clichés into the real tradeoffs between image and health, discipline and ego, and authenticity and context.
We talk about the two mirrors we all live between: the real self and the ideal self. From Marine Corps abs to “short king” confidence, from hairline humility to corporate swagger with tattoos and chains, we explore how presence is built from self-acceptance plus action. The takeaway is clear: determination comes first, action breeds motivation, and wellness beats vanity in the long run. Expect practical insights on plant-forward eating, fasting, mobility, calisthenics, and training for functionality over flex—so your joints, heart, and energy keep up with your life.
We also get real about culture and masculinity. Image can be armor, but it can also be a mask. We challenge the idea that acceptance equals settling; real acceptance includes consequences and responsibility. And we ask men to support each other better—compliment the discipline, share the routines, and create spaces where honesty feels strong, not soft. The closing advice to our younger selves ties it together: be yourself without apology, adapt without losing your center, and aim for one percent better every day.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a review telling us your biggest shift—from chasing looks to building health. Your story might be the spark someone else needs.
Email us at manhoodmatterspodcast@gmail.com
Follow us on all Socials: Manhood Matters Podcast
Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
Sponsored by www.OnsiteLabs.net
(833) 878-3323
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
But everybody's been here.
This is the beginning point.
But we're trying to get you tothis end goal.
And it takes you to have thedetermination and the love for
yourself to push you there.
Because everybody said, Well, Ineed to be motivated.
No, motivation comes second.
It's your determination, yourlove for yourself to get you
there.
Once you start, the motivationcomes.
So love yourself first, acceptyourself first in all these
(00:22):
imperfections, anything exceptyou, love you.
Because if you're not gonna loveyou, who who else is gonna love
you?
SPEAKER_05 (00:27):
Yeah, and it's what you said is very, very powerful.
SPEAKER_06 (00:31):
Motivation comes second.
Fellas, you ever catch yourselflooking in the mirror like I
just hit the gym for two weeksstraight?
I cut out bread.
I should be alright.
Yeah, I know.
We've all been there.
The truth is, every man has aversion of himself he wishes he
saw in the mirror.
The ideal self, the six-packversion, the confident, smooth,
(00:54):
25-year-old version that somehownever needed sleep or lotion.
But then there's the real self,the one with a little extra
around the waistline and maybe alittle less hair on top, but has
a lot more wisdom.
And that version deserves allthe credit, in my opinion.
Today, making his way back tothe pod, Kelly Saunders in his
(01:15):
40s, and my brother SantanaJackson making his way to the
pod for the first time in sevenmonths, and we're gonna discuss
body image in men, how we seeourselves, what we're chasing,
and how honest we are about it.
From gym pressure to aging, fromfilters to fatherhood, we're
(01:35):
gonna talk about what it meansto feel good in your own skin.
If it's your first time joiningus, make sure you hit that
follow button as we drop a newepisode each Monday.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
(02:04):
You ain't short, you got a shortback.
It's funny because um that'swhat we're gonna talk about
today.
It's body image, right?
Our real selves versus our idealselves, if there's a difference.
And I think that's somethingthat plagues, or at least we
think that it plagues women morethan anything.
We think that women are ultrafocused on the way they look.
(02:27):
Whereas with men, it's more whatyou possess.
But the reality, if we're beingsuper honest and vulnerable with
ourselves, we all have thesesame issues.
We still think about how welook, we still think about how
we want to look.
When you look in the mirror, doyou see yourself or the version
that you wish you were?
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Well, when I look in the mirror, if I see somebody
else looking back at me, oh,that's gonna be the issue.
I'm like, nah, I see me.
As far as image-wise, um, I'velearned a long time ago to
accept who I am, what I am, howI look, and um came to terms
with that.
So I marvel at what I see in themirror.
(03:05):
I marvel.
SPEAKER_04 (03:06):
Hey, um well, on my side, I I I do hey, I look in
the mirror, I say, damn, thatman's that man fine.
However, if I have animperfection or something,
especially with my haircuts, II'm really particular on
haircuts.
And if I don't have a reallynice haircut, I pop on a hat.
So today I don't have the liningstraight, yeah, that type of
(03:30):
thing.
But I do see two differentversions of myself when I look
in the mirror.
What do you mean by that?
I feel like we live between twomirrors.
One that shows who we are andone that shows who we think we
should be.
The ideal self gets dressed inambition, productivity, fitness.
(03:51):
Um, but the underneath part, itcan be shame disguised as drive.
Um so you know, I I go throughlike this recreation of myself
on a day-to-day basis.
I was taught like by mygrandmother that when you step
out that door, you have topresent yourself in a way that
(04:12):
hey, people will take youseriously.
You know what I'm saying?
So every time I step out thedoor, if it's you know, throwing
on some lounge clothes, I haveto make sure that I'm I'm tight
when I walk out that door.
But in underneath, it's like, doI look my top best?
Will people take me serious?
(04:33):
That type of thing.
So even though I may look likeI'm put together, it's that
always like, damn, do I do Ilook like I came from somewhere
that raised me in a way where Irespect myself?
SPEAKER_06 (04:48):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So I do, I because it'sinteresting you should say that
because I was raised the same.
I kind of got over it a littlebit, yeah, to be honest.
But I was raised in a way wheretwo things were told to me.
Um, my grandmother would say,What if something happens to you
and you pass out and they downto your underwear, you need to
(05:08):
be proper because if you have tocut off your clothes, you know,
um EMTs, you need to be properall the way down to your undies.
But the other thing she wouldsay also is you always need to
look a way that you'll be proudto meet someone you haven't run
into in years.
Wow.
I look like I'm always making arun to the Home Depot.
SPEAKER_04 (05:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (05:27):
And I've gotten comfortable with that.
But at the same token, I'malways thinking, or every once
in a while, this thought willpop up and make me go, if I run
into someone that I haven't seenin 10 years, there's always
something in the back of ourminds that's a little
egotistical in a sense to wherewe're thinking, damn, I don't
want to look like I'm strugglingin life.
(05:48):
I don't want to look like I'mlooking, I don't want to look
bad or whatever it is.
Do you guys feel that way atall?
Like, does that ever come uphere?
All the time.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
I look at it um, even as a culture with us, a lot
of us are taught that way.
You know, you look the part youwant to be.
You know, my when I was growingup, my dad was like, never leave
the house, not smelling good.
Hygiene is a is a big thing withus.
Look like you're somebody at alltimes.
Yeah.
But I think one of the thingstoo with black culture, it's all
(06:17):
about image with some people.
They'll look like a millionbucks but only have ten bucks in
their pocket.
When you look at other culturesor look around, they'll look
like they got 10 bucks but got amillion bucks in their pocket.
Yeah.
So you have to look at what'sthe importance of image.
What are you trying to portrayor what are you trying to cover,
or what are you actually?
(06:37):
Yeah.
That was one of the things Istruggle with before coming up,
before I accepted like who I amand what I am, because there's
some things you can't change.
You can improve.
Sure.
You know, I'm I'm big on hygieneand like I said, my personal
appearance, and if there's anyimperfections and everything,
I'm I'm on it.
Every other Friday, I havecalled facial Fridays.
Yeah.
So I go get a facial everyFriday, you know.
(06:59):
And people are like, man, whatyou're like, look, it's about
what I'm comfortable with, whatI want to look like, yeah, and
also, you know, self-care.
SPEAKER_06 (07:07):
So you say every other Friday?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Every other Friday.
SPEAKER_06 (07:09):
That's something you made it type shit.
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
Well every other Friday.
Every other Friday.
It's schedule, facial Friday.
SPEAKER_06 (07:18):
I like it.
Um, do you miss the image youhad in your early 20s when most
men are at their peak?
SPEAKER_04 (07:27):
Yeah, I could say for me, in my early 20s, I was
in a Marine Corps.
So my body physically was supertight.
It was like eight-pack abs.
You could see all the muscledefinition comments, I was like
a superhero type of shit.
Yeah.
But now it's like I built up alot more muscle in the years
(07:48):
just because of my eatinghabits.
When I got out the military, itwasn't like the strict, you
know, dieting plan, and I kindof got lax on that.
But psychologically, I feel likeI'm comfortable in my weight now
than I was when I was in my 20sbecause I had to keep up with
the military standards ofkeeping your body in shape and
(08:09):
looking like the marine type ofthing.
But now, you know, I just I justdon't really care too much now
about my my body image.
SPEAKER_06 (08:18):
If you had a magic wand, would you take that body
back?
Or would you be like, no, I'mcomfortable the way I look right
now?
SPEAKER_04 (08:24):
I would say I would want to take my body back
because when you get older, it'sthe internal things that will
catch up with you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:32):
You know what I'm saying?
So I would say, yeah, I wouldsnap back and get back to my
Marine Corps body and not be uh250 pounds versus my uh 175
pounds.
Okay.
You're not exactly a short dude,exactly, you know.
SPEAKER_06 (08:47):
Yeah.
250, you're still like allmuscle and stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not like, you know, sixfoot, you know, 250 pounds.
And it may seem like I got itall together, but hey, my ideal
weight was that 175 pounds.
I can't even picture you thatsmall.
Yeah, yeah.
I got some pictures to prove it,but you know, I I don't look
like that no more.
But um, I'll like to get down tolike a 200, 215 type of weight.
(09:13):
Okay.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (09:14):
What about you, Santana?
20 years old you versus you now.
Well, um And this is a guy whohas his own gym.
SPEAKER_04 (09:21):
So he'd be in there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah, he's in there.
Um well, I guess we all can lookback, and when we were that age,
we were at our best.
I mean, everything was tight.
You can hit the gym and do 5,000crunches or whatever and get
back, and you're not sore thenext day.
Yeah.
Now I hit five crunches and I'msore, you know, but I still get
it.
I think for me, back in my 20s,I was still learning myself.
(09:46):
I was active and was still inself-care and worked out.
So now I currently still workout now.
So my my whole motto is I had topreserve my sexy as I got older.
You know, time is gonna take itsits toll on you.
And like he says, you know,internal things, you know, I
have aches and pains that maypop up every now and then when I
do certain things, but Iactually try to keep my body fit
(10:06):
and in its shape.
I'm a big component of self-careand being healthy, eating right,
vegan lifestyle, herbs, teas,all that every day is a
lifestyle for me.
I know today I even got my lovemy plant water.
Yeah.
So I drink that every day.
I do fasting and everything torebuild cells and all that.
So yeah, I would like the bodyback, but I look good now to be
(10:29):
in my 50s.
Exactly.
And I'm still, I still got theabs, I still got the, you know,
I'm not as big and you know,ripped as as then.
SPEAKER_06 (10:37):
That's that's the only difference, right?
Because I've known you foryears.
Only difference is like you'renot as big as you used to be,
muscle-wise, but you're cut up.
So you got the body most20-year-olds wish they had.
For me, it's the opposite.
Because I was always a realskinny, scrawny little dude all
my life.
Athlete, played sports, ranaround.
But if you know, we playedcontact sports and you bumped
(10:59):
into me, I was gonna fly offsomewhere because you know I had
zero, zero mass, right?
So for me, I look at so it'sit's interesting that you guys
both kind of touched on it.
So for me, I like the way I looknow a whole lot better because
now I got the muscle and I feelbetter and I look better.
But the way I felt back when Iwas 20 is totally different
(11:22):
because case in point, I went toplay soccer with my son and
nephew about a month back andpulled both my hip flexors,
right?
Just got hurt and don't laugh,but this was during the warm-up.
I didn't even play a game.
I said not to laugh, bro.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (11:40):
So, because you know, back in the day, I just
show up, not even warm up, playa game, play a second, then
another team would call me andbe like, hey, can you play?
Can you sub in tomorrow becausesomebody's out?
If I get hurt, yeah, I bounceback to two days later, three
days later, I'm in the game.
Right.
Well, I'm still limping fromthis shit from a month ago,
right now, and it's gonna takeme a while to heal.
So that's a thing, you know.
(12:00):
I was playing with my with mydog just yesterday.
I threw the ball and he cameback charging full speed, ran
into me, took me out like abowling ball.
So, you know, and I was on theground, I was like, oh man.
You know, it's funny becauseagain, the way I used to heal,
we all used to heal differently,and that's just the human body.
(12:21):
But if I'm being vain, of courseI like the way I look better
now.
If you look at me back then, Imean he's always making fun of
me because he's always been somuch bigger than me.
He'd be like, We got a necksize, what is it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
You got a 12-size neck to come to work with his
neck sitting in the shirt.
Oh my god.
Like, man, how do you have aturtleneck dress shirt?
SPEAKER_06 (12:47):
Oh my goodness.
Oh man.
But yeah, dude, it's it's yeah,the way I look now, I I like the
way I felt then.
I wish I could get back.
So why was it for you guys?
What's influencing your bodyimage now?
SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
I have a couple of uh different types of phases of
influences.
So my first phase was women.
I have to have this this body, Ihave to be, you know, I I had no
choice but to be six foot, butapparently you have to be six
foot and over to, you know, geta good looking woman or
whatever.
You know what I'm saying?
(13:22):
That's what I'm hearing.
Look at us.
I mean, that that shit'sridiculous to me.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06 (13:28):
That's this, that's what they're and again, that's
more of a social media thingbecause that's not something I
grew up hearing.
Yeah.
If I had grown up hearing this,I would have been so
self-conscious, man.
I would have been like, oh mygod, I'll never get a woman.
It's crazy.
Right, right.
But I've never had any issues,right?
So it's crazy, but now it's likebeen propagated by social media.
But go ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, you know, it was this, youknow, women being attracted to
me.
And then uh once I he just madeit too, six foot on the dot.
Yeah, six foot, not six footone.
Just made it, just made thatshit.
Like, oh my god, thank God,thank you, mom.
You know, okay.
I can't I can't give my thecredit to my father because he's
(14:04):
like five foot five.
Yeah.
And my my mom was like, she waslike almost six foot, but not
quite there.
But um dad's a hero, right?
Yeah, I was like, man, what?
But uh, but yeah, you know, onceI got the girl and you know, the
wife and everything, and then uhstarted having kids, now my my
image switched from thisgood-looking single man to I
(14:28):
have to be like almost like alike a superhero for my kids.
Protector.
Like a protector, like, hey,your dad got you.
If you're in any trouble, if youif you need help with anything,
like I'm there for you.
And I have to be a role modelfor my kids too, because it's
like you have to be disciplined,you have to like if you go to my
(14:49):
house, everything, I'm kind ofOCD.
Like everything has to be in acertain place.
It's not just about body image,it's about how people see you on
a daily day, and it helps yourmental health too to have
everything organized in a waywhere you can just get through
the day.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (15:08):
We're visual creatures.
I can't be the only one, butI'll ask.
You ever feel like when you lookat another brother when they
look at you automaticallythere's like this subconscious
way where you're sizing eachother up?
Oh, yeah, that's a naturalinstinct.
Yeah, yeah.
It's almost like bouncers in theclub.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, like they're six,five, six, six, big guys.
SPEAKER_04 (15:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (15:29):
90% of those guys can't fight to save their lives,
they're just big.
And that perception.
The image and perception makesyou not even want to try it.
SPEAKER_04 (15:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (15:36):
I'm not gonna lie, man.
There's been times where I'll bestanding there and I don't care,
I don't think about it,whatever.
But if I'm standing there withmy wife and my kids, and then
there's any perceived possibledanger, you puff your chest out
a little bit.
Right.
You know, you do something tomake me whatever I don't know
what it is, but it's somethingabout that.
The defensive stand, man.
(15:57):
Yeah, you kind of stand there ina way where no one sees it, but
you know it.
You know what's happeninginternally, and then there's a
silent language or something,certain things that's exchange.
If there's another person whowalks in and that person may be
perceived as trouble, you makesure that they see you and they
know what's up.
SPEAKER_04 (16:13):
No, that's very true.
I go through that same thing,you know what I'm saying?
And I was a mixed martial artsinstructor for in the in the
Marine Corps.
And um, and before I became aninstructor, you know, I was I
was heavy in mixed martial arts.
So this guy, he was like sixfoot five, and of course, you
know, I'm six foot, but this guywas damn near 300 pounds.
(16:36):
Mind you, if you remember, I waslike 175 pounds.
Yeah.
And I'm like, how the hell I'mgonna take him down.
But it was like, if you're inthe battlefield, you're gonna go
against guys bigger than you.
So you got to fight him.
I got choked out, man.
I'm waking up seeing stars andstuff.
They was like, go at it again,and I'm go at it again.
And I'm like, okay.
(16:57):
So I finally got him in achokehold.
But I mean, I didn't choke himout.
I finally felt what it was liketo fight someone bigger than
you.
I'm gonna choke him out.
I don't care.
That guy was huge.
Yeah, I got him out.
That guy was huge, but um, butit it it taught me a couple of
things.
It's like you got what it takesto defend yourself and your
(17:19):
family.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
See, with me, um, being always a shorter person, I
was always challenged.
They underestimated me.
One of the things my um a littlesaying we had, um my uncle said,
he was like, because he wasshort in stature too.
He was like, man, no matter whatthe size, as long as you're
there to energize.
unknown (17:37):
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
Do your thing.
And I that was my motto oneverything.
And I looked at everything.
Even growing up, I guess thethings that kind of made me
change or kind of sculpted myimage was um, like I said,
being, you know, I'm like yourdad, you know, five, five,
whatever.
Right.
Growing up, it it bothered me atfirst because I have females
like, oh, you you look good, youknow, but you too short.
(18:01):
You too, you know.
I was like, hey, hey, no matterwhat size.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
I mean, hey, they better recognize it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
They better recognize who they messing with.
Exactly.
So I I remember in the thirdgrade, I was in the third grade,
and somebody said that to me.
It was this female that I liked.
She's like, You're a great guy.
I love being with you.
You you're nice looking, alwayslook good, smell good.
But you that short.
I can I was like, all right.
I said, that's something I can'tchange.
SPEAKER_06 (18:29):
Was your voice that deep in the third grade?
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
It was this deep.
Okay.
Hey, I had to compensate, so Iwas doing everything.
So um, I was like, let me changewhat I can.
So I started working out.
Yeah.
So I, you know, started hittingthe gym working out.
You know, I was like, I can'tgrow up, but I can go out.
(18:52):
Old when you were so workingbecause you got into
bodybuilding pretty young,right?
Yeah, I was doing powerliftingand all that.
So I was like, I was alwaysunderestimated because of my
size.
Like, uh, dude.
And I used to wear big hoodiesand stuff when I went into the
gym.
So no one can even tell.
They can't tell.
So you put full plates on thatbar.
Oh man, yeah.
We used I used to wear money,bets like that in the gym.
It's like, oh little man, whatyou can't, you know, whatever,
(19:14):
this and that.
And I was like, all right, let'slet's let's have a bench press
contest.
Let's see how many we can we canrep out.
It's like, ah, they'll laugh andeverything.
And they got this guy onFacebook now that's doing
something like that.
He'll, you know, act like he's aforeign.
I know what's talking about.
Yeah.
I was that guy back in the day.
So I would get down there, youknow, they'll they'll put the
weight on there.
I'm like, ah, you know, theybig.
(19:35):
Imagine, you know, they're sixfoot, two hundred and some
pounds, I'm five, five, onefifty-five.
Right.
So, but they didn't know I canlift three times my weight.
So they down there, they got on,they put two two 45s on, you
know, in the side, and theygetting 10, like, oh, and
struggling at the last year.
I was like, okay.
So I get up under there and Iwas like, man, I think I might
(19:56):
need a spot.
They give me a lift off, youknow.
Right.
People, you know, people thatknew who I was or worked out
with me or been through myworkout resume, like Stefan, you
know, they know.
Yeah.
So he goes hard.
So they like, man, oh man, I bet$100, you know, yeah, you're
gonna get this little dude.
You know, I'm I'm hustling.
I get on there and I was like,man, and they'll they'll lift it
(20:18):
off.
I start shaking a little bit,and I put it on my chest and
like, oh, act like I can't liftit, then I rip it out 20 times.
So what the hell?
Then I come out of my sweater,you know, like this was missing.
Yeah, this is.
See, um they can't even, I got aum tattoo on it.
They used to call me the biglittle man.
So but yeah, I just I justdecided, I just started
(20:42):
accepting myself.
And now when I'm in a room,people say, you know, I'm I'm
short, but they're like, man,when you walk in this room, you
walk in like you 6'6.
Yeah, confidence.
You know, it's that presence,it's that confidence.
So I was like, you know what?
Once I accepted who I am andappreciated and loved me for me,
every bit of it, that aura, thatimage, all that, you expel that
out.
(21:02):
That all that comes out.
And when you walk into a room,they like, oh, everybody
stopped.
And people come up to me,they're like, you like somebody
I need to know.
You, you know, you you look likesomebody.
I was like, I am somebody.
Yeah.
Put that gesture, I am somebody.
You know?
So but once I accepted who I wasand my mindset changed, image
was what I expected of myself orappreciated of myself.
(21:24):
And I was like, regardless ofwhat everybody else thinks or
whatever, I love me.
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
And once you love yourself, everybody else feels
that.
That aura supersedes you, andwhen you walk into a room or
supersede you when you're in ameeting or whatever, and they
they show you respect becauseyou respect yourself.
Right.
And that image and everything isupon you.
SPEAKER_06 (21:41):
So is that something we can kind of like pass on to
someone listening?
No one is not just perfect, butno one thinks they are.
We love ourselves, we love ourown imperfections.
Right, right.
It's really what it is.
But someone might be strugglingwith something else, like maybe
they're overweight and the waythey show up, they don't feel
good about it.
Sometimes there's a lot ofdifferent things, and sometimes
(22:01):
there's maybe a chroniccondition they might have,
things that we don't know.
But is there, I guess, is therea fine line between
self-criticism andself-improvement?
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
It is.
It is, yeah.
Like I said, if you don't loveyourself or see yourself in a
certain way, you're not gonnatake the time to improve or do
anything.
First, when I train someone, Iwas like, the first thing I try
to teach them to acceptthemselves, love themselves.
Yeah, you're here now.
Right.
But everybody's been here.
This is the beginning point.
But we're trying to get you tothis end goal.
(22:34):
And it takes you to have thedetermination and a love for
yourself to push you there.
Because everybody said, Well, Ineed to be motivated.
No, motivation comes second.
It's your determination, yourlove for yourself to get you
there.
Once you start, the motivationcomes.
So love yourself first, acceptyourself first and all this
imperfection, anything, acceptyou, love you.
Because if you're not gonna loveyou, who who else is gonna love
(22:55):
you?
SPEAKER_05 (22:55):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (22:56):
And it it's what you said, it's very, very powerful.
Motivation comes second.
A lot of people think it's theother way around.
I need to be motivated.
How many times have we heardthat?
I need something to motivate meto get up and go do this, right?
Right?
When in reality, it's you do thething and it's the action that
creates the motivation, is whatyou're saying.
I love that.
Um, do you think menunderestimate how much body
(23:18):
image affects their ownconfidence?
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
It's true.
I see it with people in the gymand just working out this every
day.
But with me, you know, too, Iguess the more fit I am, the
more attention I get, the moreconfident I feel.
That's true.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (23:34):
You don't have to be in the gym.
Like I could be wearing a suit,bro.
You know, you got a dress shirton, you know, and and you just
kind of walk into a meeting, andthere's a way that you're
perceived.
First thing they see isdiscipline.
Yeah.
Because you're not just you'renot born with it.
And then again, we're seeing howa lot of these young kids look
these days anyway.
It's like they're not takingcare of themselves either.
So it's not just a naturalthing.
(23:54):
So they can see the discipline,but you are perceived a
different way.
SPEAKER_04 (23:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (23:57):
You shake someone's hand, they can feel that firm
handshake, they can feel thatstrength, and they're like,
there's a way that people seethemselves, which is why I ask
if there is a lack ofconfidence, even subconsciously,
from men when they have thisbody image that they're thinking
about.
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
It could be learned too, like with me, one of the
things my dad taught me, um, Iguess the perception, I learned
adaptability.
Like we say when I'm going to ameeting or whatever, something
corporate, I'm gonna look thepart.
I'm gonna look my best at that.
I'm gonna have the suit, tie,everything like that.
But if I'm going to rock with myboys, I'm up in the hood, I'm
not gonna wear a suit.
I'm gonna put on the scullyhoodie, I'm gonna look like,
(24:34):
hey, don't in every and I guessin every um atmosphere, I want
to look like you don't want totry me in that.
So if I need, if I'm in a hoodatmosphere, hey, that dude hood.
If I'm in the corporate, oh,he's about his business.
If I'm everyday lounging or I'min the gym, like, I ain't gonna
mess with a little bit.
Nobody lounge better.
Yeah, exactly.
So that's adaptability and beable to adapt to your
(24:55):
surroundings so that you fit in,like the whole saying back, we
wear the mask.
Right.
You have to know when to take itoff, when and when to change it,
when to put on the right mask,when not.
But I think the image of kidstoday, they just like I'm gonna
look this way everywhere I go.
They haven't learned thatadaptability and how to be a
chameleon or to be presentablein the environment that you're
(25:17):
in.
SPEAKER_04 (25:18):
I agree with that, but I also have an other side I
because sometimes I go againstthe grain in some of my
environments.
Like, for example, the corporateenvironment.
Everybody wanna have a suit andtie and all this other stuff.
I got tattoos, I wear earrings,I do, you know, all that.
But when I come there, I come ina suit, but I have my my uh
(25:39):
shirt unbuttoned down.
I got my chains on, I got, youknow what I'm saying?
I kind of, you know, I got apinky ring on, I got nice watch
on, I still got my earrings on,but I got a clean cut and I'm
suited, booted, ready to go.
So when I speak to them, it'slike, oh, okay, this this guy
got tattoos, he he this, okay.
(25:59):
Let me let me listen to him.
SPEAKER_06 (26:01):
But let me ask you that.
Yeah, yeah.
Gotcha.
Did you do that the very firsttime, or they just at this
point, they know your reputationprecedes you, so they know the
caliber of person you are?
SPEAKER_04 (26:12):
No, I did it the first time.
Really?
Yeah, that's like how muchconfidence I have in myself.
Because if you're not gonnaaccept me for who I am, then
that's on you.
SPEAKER_06 (26:22):
But let me ask you this though.
Yeah.
We actually had a conversationabout this where we talked about
authenticity, right?
Right.
Authenticity is great, right?
But be authentic when it'snecessary?
No, be authentic when it's trulyauthentic.
And what this young lady said onthe pod was it's not authentic
to be authentic in the workplacebecause you're not the
(26:43):
workplace.
SPEAKER_04 (26:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (26:45):
The workplace is the workplace, and she was basically
saying, I can go in there and doa deal for 15, 20 million
dollars and conduct myself theway I would conduct myself
authentically with my friendsand family.
So I have to show up a differentway.
Okay.
So I guess I'm asking, not thatit's wrong, the reason I'm
pushing back is I'm asking, whatgave you the size balls that you
had to walk into a meeting witha pinky ring shred on button
(27:05):
every time you show upsomewhere, there's a there's a
look.
Right.
And it's usually it's veryunique, which is cool because I
can see that authenticity inthere.
But in the corporateenvironment, how do you pull
that off?
SPEAKER_04 (27:17):
Um, it's going back to like my man over here said,
you have to give like an aura.
Is that that energy that you putoff?
Right.
So, you know, I was on multiplepanels at my job, and uh, we
were speaking on leadershipdevelopment, being a consultant,
being a project manager, workingwith multi-million dollar
(27:39):
companies and all this otherstuff.
And I walk in there with thesame getup, you know, with a
two-piece suit, sometimesthree-piece suit, and the image
that they have of me is kind ofsimilar to like like a
celebrity, for example, TheRock, right?
You know, The Rock, he has histattoos, he he walks in there,
(27:59):
and everyone knows he's comingin there and he's gonna take
control of the room, right?
His energy, his aura, hispresence, everything.
So when I walk into that, that'show I feel when I walk into
there, and that's how theyperceive me.
And everyone talks to me withrespect.
They say sir, they say, youknow, gentlemen or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (28:20):
But you know, when I'm not in a corporate setting,
I kind of still have that, evenwith when I'm with my friends
and and my family.
And that's how I love to dress.
I I love style, I love dressingup with, you know, red bonhoms
sometimes.
And sometimes, you know, youdon't have to spend all it, all
this money to have this image.
(28:41):
You could just go to different,like uh, for example, um Zara.
Sometimes I just go to Zara, getsome stuff off the rack.
Sometimes I dress it up withsome stuff off a Sheen or Amazon
or whatever.
And um so it's your creativityputting things together.
Yes, yes.
It's just like who I am.
Like we talked about artists andeverything like that.
(29:02):
That I'm not gonna change myselfto accommodate for your comfort.
I'm just gonna just be who I am.
This is me all the time.
Yeah.
And it gives me uh a sense ofpeace and happiness because now
I don't have to live up to astandard for someone else.
SPEAKER_06 (29:18):
All right, that's well said.
What is an insecurity, just oneinsecurity that you've learned
to embrace or laugh at?
Uh hair loss.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (29:27):
Yeah.
So when I was saying like Jointhe club, man, bro.
Man, but I joined the club a fewtimes and I got some feedback,
and I'm like, man, should I go,should I go to Tupac or Suge
Knight?
Everybody calling me Sug Knightfor some odd damn reason.
Yeah.
I was uh at uh fellowship, CamNewton Spot, and one of their
marketing directors came up, andone of my homeboys, Tyreek
(29:49):
Washington, was there, where Dr.
Tyreek Washton was there, and uhthey was like, Hey, can we take
some pictures of you and allthis other?
I was like, Yeah, sure.
So they took a picture, and youknow, that picture.
Picture you got a lot of viewsand a lot of likes and all this
other stuff.
And on the comments, they waslike, hey, I see Suge Knight is
back and something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
And I'm like, oh man, not again.
Well, when I'm I'm gonna behonest, man, you do look Suge
Nicey.
You look like it's if you didthe ball ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (30:21):
If I did the ball ahead, it's over with, man.
But like I said, I have a badhairline day, so I slap on that
cap type of thing.
But yeah, you know, I laugh atit because I mean, like, you
know, my wife, she embraced itand she was like, hey, you look
good either way with with thefibers or without the hair.
So yeah, yeah.
So without the fibers, it'syou're bald.
SPEAKER_06 (30:42):
Yeah, it's like you could see it's thinning on the
top, and it's like, oh man.
I started losing my hair in mylate 20s, bro.
It was like it was thinning andI had locks.
So it was just it was just thin,yeah, it looked funny as hell
because you know, you couldn'ttell if I didn't show you, but I
would know.
And then eventually over theyears, it just got worse and
worse and worse.
(31:02):
And one day I just you knowdecided I was just gonna shave
my head.
First of all, everyone loved itbecause I was in the corporate
world and I had locks orwhatever.
So I show up in a suit the nextday and people were like, Thank
God, I'm glad you did this,right?
And I'm like, Really?
Like, no one was gonna sayanything.
And then one guy was likewhispers.
Yeah, right.
One guy was like, You got a niceshaped head.
I never thought about that.
(31:23):
But yes, it's something I did Idid struggle with it, but it's
been decades, so I'm not I'm notconcerned about it.
But for me, what's always beensomething that I've had to
embrace, and I didn't embrace ituntil probably the last, I don't
know, maybe past 10 years or so.
Right, yeah.
It was the same thing.
He said my height.
I was like, I'm a short dude.
And it was always something toprove.
(31:44):
When I was a kid, I'm always thesmallest kid in in class.
So I'm gonna pick a fight attimes just to make a point.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
So I wasn't always that way.
I wasn't just troublemaker, butum, there were times, like, you
know, playing with my friends, Ihad to be the loudest voice.
I had to be the leader.
You know, when I was in uh in myband when I was doing music,
(32:06):
same thing.
I had to be the leader.
I had to be the guy who wrotethe most songs, I had to be this
guy.
Always wanted to be that guybecause, and maybe
subconsciously I wascompensating for it, but at the
same token, that's kind of who Iam anyway.
Like I take the lead, I takecharge.
SPEAKER_04 (32:18):
You know what's funny?
You you said about mentioningabout height.
I was called wasn't tall enoughbefore when I was dating.
It was uh it was this one woman,she was about maybe five foot
seven, and you know, we met on adate nap type of thing.
I would have been eye to eyewith her.
And she was like, I was like,what's wrong?
It's like I thought she would betaller.
(32:40):
I'm like, I'm taller, I'mlooking like looking over you.
You got heels on, yeah.
It's just like she wants somelike basketball looking.
You gotta pick her up, yeah,like a baby.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Like, come on.
I didn't had that joy.
You you too short.
You they expect you to pick.
I man, I picked this one girlup.
She was like 280.
I was like, what?
You want me to rather and I andI walked with her and then I put
her down, she just looked at melike, mm-mm.
I didn't know you could do that.
(33:11):
I was like, see, no matter whatthe size.
Like Steph said, I used to beself-conscious about my height
too.
Like I said, back, it was at ayounger age that I accepted it
and was like, man, forget this.
I I don't care what y'all say,whatever.
Um, because I used to compensatefor it.
I was a funny guy and doing allthat, but yeah, it's funny by
(33:33):
nature.
That's just what I do.
Until females would say, Oh,yeah, you're cute, you this, but
you just too short.
And I was like, well, damn it,that ain't gonna change, you
know.
And we could move from there.
Right.
But once I accepted that andstarted having that confidence,
I noticed throughout the yearsit didn't matter.
You know, they would say theywanted this six foot tall, this
(33:55):
whatever, but I was stillpulling them.
Yeah.
In college, I had a girlfriendthat was on the basketball team.
She was six four.
Wow.
And look, and they was like,people like, man, how'd you get
that?
I said, why wouldn't I?
Right.
I was everybody's hero and I didstuff like that.
I was like, it didn't matter ifyou portray that weakness or you
put that on French, they'regonna feed on that.
(34:17):
Yeah.
My image, you know, I wasconfident who I was, regardless
of I could have been 3-9.
I'm gonna still, she can be 6'6or whoever, I'ma still push up
on her.
SPEAKER_04 (34:25):
Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
You know, most men are intimidated by, you know,
like their image of what theirlack of.
I was like, you know what?
I don't care.
And I tell I I remember going uptelling the woman, you know, she
was, we was talking, I was like,hey, you need a short man story
to tell your girls.
Yeah.
Hey, I'm gonna do that for youtonight.
So I mean, and they laughed,they was like, man, you you
coming here.
That's why they said I walk intoa room like I'm like 6'6,
(34:48):
whatever the confidence thatgoes out before me, you know,
that that whole aura, thatenergy.
Yeah.
So I was like, you know what?
I can't change it.
I'm gonna accept it and embraceit and move forward.
Like you were saying back in thedays of perception when they saw
me growing up because I was ashorter guy or whatever, they
always oftentimes tried me.
My mom was, she was about fournine.
(35:08):
She was a firecracker.
She was eight, but and and sheknew I was gonna be short, so
she made sure I knew how to takecare of myself.
Right.
So growing up, I did martialarts, I boxed, I learned how to
use anything as a weapon.
And I I mean, I took thatliterally.
I I would make weapons in ourshed and do it.
Well, but people would would tryme, but they did that once, no
matter what the size.
SPEAKER_06 (35:29):
No, that's gonna be the name of this episode.
Do you think your health goalsor your training regimen, I
should say, are truly aboutwellness or is it about
appearance?
Uh for me it's both.
SPEAKER_04 (35:47):
But it's it's heavy on the wellness side now.
I used to work out every day.
It was like, I don't know, likebreathing.
And I used to eat whatever.
You know, I used to go tobuffets, I used to go eat
anything.
It was it was crazy.
And I used to just burn it off.
But now, since I'm older, youyou don't got that high
metabolism to just burneverything.
(36:09):
And then on top of that, now yougot family.
Now you're busy with, you know,taking care of your wife, taking
care of your kids, all thisother stuff.
Plus, you got a career andeverything like that.
So now it's more ofconcentrating on my diet.
My diet is everything.
Most of the time I eat once aday.
You know, then I have you know.
Hey, it works once you get thatfor you.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (36:31):
Both of you guys with that whole yeah, uh, what
do you call you'd be fasting?
This guy goes 72 hours a month,which is some wild shit.
Yeah.
No, every two hours, bro.
I'm subbing down and I atealready.
I think you have to build upthat momentum.
But I also, our metabolism is adifferent my body type is oh
yeah.
I if I don't hit the gym in twoweeks, I lose 10 pounds.
(36:53):
Okay.
That's why he had that 12 neck.
SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
He was see, so he has to compensate for that.
I'm saying, God damn.
SPEAKER_04 (37:04):
Hey, man, hey, that's a superpower.
You can do that.
SPEAKER_06 (37:06):
God damn, having that 12-neck, man, god you be
hitting on 12 neck, I'm tellingyou, man.
It's got it wasn't funny at at30, but at 50, it's like, thank
god I got a 12 neck.
SPEAKER_04 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you have to you have tocount your blessings on that
one, man, because a lot ofpeople can't can't do that.
You know what I'm saying?
And we have to, for me, it'slike, okay, I need to
concentrate on my diet because,you know, my sibling is having
some health issues right now,you know what I'm saying?
And I'm like, I have to reallyconcentrate on the eating and
(37:39):
snacking and all the otherstuff.
Like, I have to really getdisciplined on that that aspect.
Everything else, like myphysical appearance, will fall
in place if I focus on thatdieting.
SPEAKER_06 (37:51):
That's true, you know?
So for me, it was always aboutappearance.
That's why I go in the gym andworry about the exercises that
would make me look good and notfocus on endurance strength.
I was just like, no, I just needto build a certain shape, and I
was sculpting my body, right?
And that's all I was about.
Yeah.
Now it's changed to I care wayless about how I look, and I
(38:13):
want to focus on longevity.
Exactly.
Prolonging my life, making surethat things don't hurt or take
and heal faster, to your point.
So now I'm I can say I'm 85%wellness and 15% appearance.
Yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (38:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:27):
And you've done my workout, so you know with me.
That's why I am come back.
Like, but I mean, prime example,you said you went in there just
to sculpt the look.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:36):
My whole thing is about functionality.
SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
So when when he started doing my workouts, you
know, I'm having you doeverything, use muscles that you
haven't used.
Yep.
You know, I'm big on likecalisthenics and everything.
I especially as you get older,you you start, your body starts
to change or whatever.
You have to have thatfunctionality to be able to have
that longevity.
So not necessarily about image.
Like you said, it's gonna come.
Right.
If you do the right steps and dothe right thing, the image is
(39:00):
gonna come, the look is gonna bethere.
But you just gotta develop youryour not only your muscles, your
joints, everything workstogether.
It's a unit.
So that was one of the reasons Ibecame vegan.
Um I had some health issues, andhonestly, through what I ate, I
made food my medicine.
And well, I can say I had alittle about with prostate
cancer.
(39:20):
But through diet, exercise,vegan, I did herbs, sour sap,
all that things.
Did Dr.
Sabi's whole regimen.
SPEAKER_01 (39:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
The last three biopsies, nothing.
They couldn't find it.
Where it was that even testeddown to the DNA.
It was like, I don't know whatyou did or what you're doing,
keep doing it.
That's all amazing.
That's all amazing, brother.
So it's about health, longevity,functionality.
Yeah.
You know, I work out still fourto five days a week, but it's
not, I'm not in there liftingheavy weight like I used to,
(39:50):
benching 370 pounds, squatting,you know, five.
Nah, I'm not doing that.
I put some little weight onthere and do a lot of reps,
whatever, and do functionality,calisthenics, and everything
like that.
But because I, you don't heallike you used to, you know, it's
not about that image with me.
I was like, I still look goodfor my my age, and but I want to
be healthy and I want to be herefor the long haul to take care
(40:11):
of my kids and family to bethere.
SPEAKER_06 (40:13):
That's well said, man.
So, what would self-acceptancelook like without giving up on
ourselves?
Look like me?
No.
You know, because there's thatthere's that, you know, person
listening and the message couldbe misconstrued, right?
Whether you're hearing, well,accept yourself the way you are,
love yourself.
(40:33):
We're saying both.
We're saying that that's whereit starts, but then there's
something you want to fix.
You can go ahead and take thesteps, the actions, and the
motivation will follow as yousaid, Santana, right?
But what does that acceptancelook like?
SPEAKER_04 (40:45):
I would say you have to you have to accept the fact
that you're going to havedifferent phases and different
images of yourself throughouttime.
Okay, accept that because you'renot gonna be the same person
five years ago, ten years ago,not even a week ago.
Because you're you're on thiscourse to your ultimate self,
(41:07):
right?
Yeah.
So you're not gonna hit yourultimate self next year.
You're gonna get hit yourultimate phase next year.
So that next phase, you're justgonna be like, okay, this year
I'm gonna do bodybuilding.
The next year you might say, uh,I don't want to do bodybuilding
no more.
I want to just focus on healthylifestyle habits.
(41:29):
And that is a part of who you'regoing to become.
SPEAKER_03 (41:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
Accept the fact that you're not perfect.
Accept the fact that you'regoing to change.
You're going to go through ametamorphosis throughout your
whole entire life.
And all because you're 80 yearsold, 90 years old doesn't mean
you're the wisest person on theface of the earth.
All because you're a president,all because if you're a pope and
all this other stuff, thatdoesn't mean you're like the
(41:55):
wisest person on the face of theearth.
You just have to accept yourselfnow and accept your change.
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
Yeah.
One of the things too, I wantedto make clear for people that
say, you know, hobo, accept whoyou are.
When you do that, understand theprocess.
You have to accept whollyeverything.
If you're overweight 300 poundsand I accept who I am, then
accept the consequences thatcome along with that.
Oh man, wow.
You have to really, and peopledon't think about that.
I say, okay, well, I'mcomfortable with okay.
(42:23):
If you're comfortable with whoyou are, be comfortable with
diabetes.
Be comfortable with high umhypertension.
Be comfortable with the coremorbid conditions that can come
with where you are right now,accepting that what you are.
Right.
So please understand that I Idon't knock you for accepting
who you are, but accept itwholly because it's gonna
change, you know, that thoseprocesses, it's gonna change how
(42:43):
you react, how you deal withthings day to day.
If you accept that you want tobe unhealthy or overweight, then
accept the things that can comealong with it.
You accept that you're gonna belive a healthier lifestyle,
gonna change your life, want tobetter yourself, hey, then
accept that things.
If you did have high bloodpressure and you did the
building blocks of things to getrid of that, because you accept
it, like I want to live to behere with my kids.
(43:05):
I want to be a be a healthierperson, I want to get over this
illness or whatever.
So that's accepting that realityinstead of what you're doing
now.
So, and you accept all theresponsibility that comes along
with it.
SPEAKER_06 (43:17):
Well, well said, that's powerful.
How can men support each otherin those insecurities?
The biggest challenge, we're nottalking about no damn
insecurities with no otherdudes.
Right.
So it's you know, it's funnybecause now I'm older, it's
different.
Because I can go into a regulargym and see a dude doing an
exercise and be like, bro, Iwant to get those arms.
Tell me what you do.
(43:37):
I have no problem beingcomfortable with saying that,
right?
But most men still struggle withthat.
If they have an insecurity,they're not sharing it with
anyone else.
Right.
How can we support each otherbetter with those, with the
whole body image thing?
SPEAKER_04 (43:52):
Doing activities together, get them out their
comfort zone, get themcomfortable to open up about
some of their insecurities.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06 (44:01):
Because I was gonna say outside of the gym, right?
Because a lot of people whostruggle with that, they're not
in the gym.
Right, right, right, right.
So, what do you find those guys?
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
And wh how do you help them?
Us as men, we have to learn toget over the ego thing.
We think it's not mancho orcertain people look at us a
certain way, or even, you know,if you open up, it's considered
a a feminine trait or whatever.
Yo, he he's off, he this iswhatever.
SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
I think if we're gonna be better, we have to
embrace our village, the peoplethat are around us, and like you
said, compliment each other.
Be and it ain't in a way thatyou're trying to be feminine or
whatever, but you know, where weare and whether it's the
perception.
So, and that can be a hindranceto a lot of us as men because we
can open up and we suffersilently, and it ends up being
detrimental to us.
(44:45):
But um, I think like if weembrace the unity as a man and
you know, we help each otherlike like sisters, they all hey,
they they'll high depth, youknow, each other, whatever, and
they can somebody can havestretch marks, they'll oh girl,
work them stretch marks.
Hey, you know, they do thatlittle thing that we love each
other.
Yeah, they're really comfortablewith that.
They'd be like, come do stretchmarks, come do, you know,
they'll get your hair.
(45:06):
Exactly.
See, men don't do that.
SPEAKER_06 (45:08):
And it's we don't compliment each other like in
the gym, we might.
Because gym culture isdifferent.
Yeah, out in real life, butagain, as we get older, we get
more comfortable with thatbecause I'm not concerned about
your small mind thinking.
Like if you misinterpret whatI'm saying, right?
You know, I love my brothers, Iwant to see them succeed, I want
to see them thrive.
So I might pay that compliment,but I guess it's something that
(45:29):
we don't do nearly as well aswomen.
Like we just don't do that forbrothers.
SPEAKER_00 (45:33):
Yeah, yeah, because we are worried about what they
may perceive their what they maythink.
Oh, this trying to no ditty.
SPEAKER_06 (45:40):
Yeah, yeah, no didn't say and that's the thing.
You're worried about what peoplemight think, and you're worried
about that because that's that'sa concern for a lot of men.
Yeah, it is.
You guys have been veryvulnerable and very open, so
this is along those same lineshere.
When you strip away comparison,ego, expectation.
We talked about body image alot, but who are you really?
(46:04):
And are you okay with thatversion of yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (46:07):
With me, um, I always try to be better than
what I was yesterday.
So I can't say I'm okay withmyself because I'm always
constantly improving.
Life is a learning journey.
SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:17):
Um, I try to learn something every day and get
fulfilled every day.
And I so I'm never comfortablewith where I am in a sense, but
I don't think it's it's lookingat it as a weakness because I'm
always better myself.
If it's learning from, you know,a mistake I did before to get
better, to get over that.
Even interacting with my mywife, my daughter, I have to
(46:39):
check myself and better myselfand how I'll speak to them or
discipline or everything.
So it's always I'm alwaysstriving to be better every day.
If it's just 1% better, I'vedone if I've done one thing
better than I did yesterday,it's successful.
But me, I can't, I can't say,you know, I'm I'm gonna be
settled and happy with, youknow, because I want to continue
to to improve.
(46:59):
Even on my deathbed, I'm tryingto, you know.
I'm fighting, you know, I'mgonna give my last break.
And it's better than yesterday.
You know, you know.
SPEAKER_06 (47:09):
I'm gonna die better than anybody's ever died before.
SPEAKER_00 (47:12):
No one's ever died better than me.
Put a trompe on them, but butyeah, um once you get
comfortable with yourself andyou accept everything about you,
you can't do anything butimprove every day.
Because you you have thatmindset, that awareness.
(47:33):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And you're in tune with stuff.
So every day is an increase.
Nice.
unknown (47:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (47:38):
How about yourself, Kelly?
Who are you if we strip away allthat other stuff we were talking
about, expectations, ego, andall of that.
Who are you?
And are you okay with thatversion of yourself?
SPEAKER_04 (47:47):
I would say I'm okay with the version of myself
because the person that I am isa person who's resilient, a
person who's always focused andalways putting people before,
you know, myself, which can be apro and it could be a con.
But my history of my life, I'mblessed with the good experience
(48:09):
I had and the bad experiences.
You know, like my brother saidover here, it's like, you know,
I'm going to continue to um seekimprovement for myself.
But yeah, yeah, that's I Iaccept all of me.
And if I go tomorrow, I'd behappy on the version that I
became.
Nice.
SPEAKER_06 (48:28):
And one final thought from each of you, which
is a message to your youngerself since then I get it
started.
No matter what.
No.
SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
Um just be okay with who you are.
You're you're never gonna beperfect, but you can be good at
what you do.
You can be perfect withinyourself.
Believe in yourself, confidencecomes within.
You can always be better.
You're always better.
One of the things that I believein affirmations, mindfulness.
If I could tell my younger selfsome of the beliefs and things
(49:00):
that I had, I would have neverstruggled or went through some
of the issues that I I wentbecause it was all about, you
know, not being self-aware, um,self-confident, and trying to
portray an image that otherpeople had made for me or what I
saw instead of accepting who Iam and instead of being what
they want me to be, to be who Iwanted to be.
(49:22):
Yeah.
And one of the things I learnedalso was I can meet people where
they are without losing who Iam.
And that's what I would tellmyself.
You know, to still be you at alltimes, never compromise, but
understand the process,understand the environment,
understand your abilities, andum let's know who you are.
Powerful.
(49:42):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (49:43):
Kelly.
Yeah.
Um I would say continue tolisten to your mother.
My mother used to tell me, keepyour eyes on the prize.
No matter what type ofdistractions or obstacles that
come in your way, there's alwaysgonna be that.
There's always gonna bechallenges, there's always gonna
be something come up to push youa step back.
(50:04):
But always remember that there'smore than one way to get over an
obstacle, to get over achallenge and to always love
yourself because there's gonnabe times when the people will
may say things to you, may dothings to you that will always
question yourself, but alwayshave confidence in what you
(50:25):
believe in, and always haveconfidence that you will get
through any challenge if youbelieve in yourself.
Beautiful.
What about you, Stefan?
What would you say to youryounger self?
SPEAKER_06 (50:35):
For me, it would be I have everything that I need, I
am everything that I need.
I used to really be hung up onthinking that I need things and
people, and I don't.
So when it comes to things, manymaterial things, that's
different today because I haveresponsibilities towards other
(50:56):
people.
But that's pretty much where itstops.
I wish I would have realized along time ago that I don't need
things or people.
I would have been a lot happier.
I want to thank you guys forbeing here, man.
It's been an amazingconversation.
I I I picked the right twopartners to have a conversation
like this with.
You guys brought a lot of wisdomto the pod.
(51:18):
So thank you both.
Santana Kelly, thanks for beinghere, fellas.
Santana, you are gonna do theoutro today, and you have to
pick whichever celebrity youwant to be, and uh, I will send
you the monologue so you can goand get started, bro.
SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
I don't know.
I just been listening to a lotof Trump.
That's okay.
Hey, let's listen to the truth.
SPEAKER_06 (51:37):
Hey, you wanna do the I do Donald?
I do Trump.
All right, cool.
Hold on.
That's just gonna get meexpelled from the damn country.
I know they're gonna come afteryou.
All right, so are we changing itup?
Bernie Mac, it is?
unknown (51:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (51:51):
Alright.
All right, Bernie Mac, it is.
Do your thing, brother.
SPEAKER_00 (51:54):
Hey man, I'm here.
This is burning the Mac,motherfucker.
I'm telling you, y'all ain'tworrying about stretch marks and
getting these muscles and shit.
Y'all need to be worrying aboutgetting some.
But I ain't gonna say that thisis another podcast, but I ain't
scared of them, motherfuckers.
So you better listen to the MacMan on here and manhood manners.
(52:15):
Love yourself and love themmotherfuckers that don't hate
you too.
Cause I'm loving Mac, I'm dark,black, man.
This whole room gets dark inthem motherfuckers.
But I'm gonna tell you, manhoodmanners.
This is the Mac Man.
You turn in to get some goodnews, get some good vibes.
We'll see you next week.
Get out of them, motherfucker.
(52:37):
That's good.
That's really good, brother.
But everybody's been here.
This is the beginning point.
But we're trying to get you tothis end goal.
And it takes you to have thedetermination and the love for
yourself to push you there.
Because everybody said, Well, Ineed to be motivated.
No, motivation comes second.
It's your determination, yourlove for yourself to get you
there.
Once you start, the motivationcomes.
So love yourself first, acceptyourself first in all these
(00:22):
imperfections, anything exceptyou, love you.
Because if you're not gonna loveyou, who who else is gonna love
you?
SPEAKER_05 (00:27):
Yeah, and it's what you said is very, very powerful.
SPEAKER_06 (00:31):
Motivation comes second.
Fellas, you ever catch yourselflooking in the mirror like I
just hit the gym for two weeksstraight?
I cut out bread.
I should be alright.
Yeah, I know.
We've all been there.
The truth is, every man has aversion of himself he wishes he
saw in the mirror.
The ideal self, the six-packversion, the confident, smooth,
(00:54):
25-year-old version that somehownever needed sleep or lotion.
But then there's the real self,the one with a little extra
around the waistline and maybe alittle less hair on top, but has
a lot more wisdom.
And that version deserves allthe credit, in my opinion.
Today, making his way back tothe pod, Kelly Saunders in his
(01:15):
40s, and my brother SantanaJackson making his way to the
pod for the first time in sevenmonths, and we're gonna discuss
body image in men, how we seeourselves, what we're chasing,
and how honest we are about it.
From gym pressure to aging, fromfilters to fatherhood, we're
(01:35):
gonna talk about what it meansto feel good in your own skin.
If it's your first time joiningus, make sure you hit that
follow button as we drop a newepisode each Monday.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
(02:04):
You ain't short, you got a shortback.
It's funny because um that'swhat we're gonna talk about
today.
It's body image, right?
Our real selves versus our idealselves, if there's a difference.
And I think that's somethingthat plagues, or at least we
think that it plagues women morethan anything.
We think that women are ultrafocused on the way they look.
(02:27):
Whereas with men, it's more whatyou possess.
But the reality, if we're beingsuper honest and vulnerable with
ourselves, we all have thesesame issues.
We still think about how welook, we still think about how
we want to look.
When you look in the mirror, doyou see yourself or the version
that you wish you were?
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Well, when I look in the mirror, if I see somebody
else looking back at me, oh,that's gonna be the issue.
I'm like, nah, I see me.
As far as image-wise, um, I'velearned a long time ago to
accept who I am, what I am, howI look, and um came to terms
with that.
So I marvel at what I see in themirror.
(03:05):
I marvel.
SPEAKER_04 (03:06):
Hey, um well, on my side, I I I do hey, I look in
the mirror, I say, damn, thatman's that man fine.
However, if I have animperfection or something,
especially with my haircuts, II'm really particular on
haircuts.
And if I don't have a reallynice haircut, I pop on a hat.
So today I don't have the liningstraight, yeah, that type of
(03:30):
thing.
But I do see two differentversions of myself when I look
in the mirror.
What do you mean by that?
I feel like we live between twomirrors.
One that shows who we are andone that shows who we think we
should be.
The ideal self gets dressed inambition, productivity, fitness.
(03:51):
Um, but the underneath part, itcan be shame disguised as drive.
Um so you know, I I go throughlike this recreation of myself
on a day-to-day basis.
I was taught like by mygrandmother that when you step
out that door, you have topresent yourself in a way that
(04:12):
hey, people will take youseriously.
You know what I'm saying?
So every time I step out thedoor, if it's you know, throwing
on some lounge clothes, I haveto make sure that I'm I'm tight
when I walk out that door.
But in underneath, it's like, doI look my top best?
Will people take me serious?
(04:33):
That type of thing.
So even though I may look likeI'm put together, it's that
always like, damn, do I do Ilook like I came from somewhere
that raised me in a way where Irespect myself?
SPEAKER_06 (04:48):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So I do, I because it'sinteresting you should say that
because I was raised the same.
I kind of got over it a littlebit, yeah, to be honest.
But I was raised in a way wheretwo things were told to me.
Um, my grandmother would say,What if something happens to you
and you pass out and they downto your underwear, you need to
(05:08):
be proper because if you have tocut off your clothes, you know,
um EMTs, you need to be properall the way down to your undies.
But the other thing she wouldsay also is you always need to
look a way that you'll be proudto meet someone you haven't run
into in years.
Wow.
I look like I'm always making arun to the Home Depot.
SPEAKER_04 (05:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (05:27):
And I've gotten comfortable with that.
But at the same token, I'malways thinking, or every once
in a while, this thought willpop up and make me go, if I run
into someone that I haven't seenin 10 years, there's always
something in the back of ourminds that's a little
egotistical in a sense to wherewe're thinking, damn, I don't
want to look like I'm strugglingin life.
(05:48):
I don't want to look like I'mlooking, I don't want to look
bad or whatever it is.
Do you guys feel that way atall?
Like, does that ever come uphere?
All the time.
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
I look at it um, even as a culture with us, a lot
of us are taught that way.
You know, you look the part youwant to be.
You know, my when I was growingup, my dad was like, never leave
the house, not smelling good.
Hygiene is a is a big thing withus.
Look like you're somebody at alltimes.
Yeah.
But I think one of the thingstoo with black culture, it's all
(06:17):
about image with some people.
They'll look like a millionbucks but only have ten bucks in
their pocket.
When you look at other culturesor look around, they'll look
like they got 10 bucks but got amillion bucks in their pocket.
Yeah.
So you have to look at what'sthe importance of image.
What are you trying to portrayor what are you trying to cover,
or what are you actually?
(06:37):
Yeah.
That was one of the things Istruggle with before coming up,
before I accepted like who I amand what I am, because there's
some things you can't change.
You can improve.
Sure.
You know, I'm I'm big on hygieneand like I said, my personal
appearance, and if there's anyimperfections and everything,
I'm I'm on it.
Every other Friday, I havecalled facial Fridays.
Yeah.
So I go get a facial everyFriday, you know.
(06:59):
And people are like, man, whatyou're like, look, it's about
what I'm comfortable with, whatI want to look like, yeah, and
also, you know, self-care.
SPEAKER_06 (07:07):
So you say every other Friday?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Every other Friday.
SPEAKER_06 (07:09):
That's something you made it type shit.
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
Well every other Friday.
Every other Friday.
It's schedule, facial Friday.
SPEAKER_06 (07:18):
I like it.
Um, do you miss the image youhad in your early 20s when most
men are at their peak?
SPEAKER_04 (07:27):
Yeah, I could say for me, in my early 20s, I was
in a Marine Corps.
So my body physically was supertight.
It was like eight-pack abs.
You could see all the muscledefinition comments, I was like
a superhero type of shit.
Yeah.
But now it's like I built up alot more muscle in the years
(07:48):
just because of my eatinghabits.
When I got out the military, itwasn't like the strict, you
know, dieting plan, and I kindof got lax on that.
But psychologically, I feel likeI'm comfortable in my weight now
than I was when I was in my 20sbecause I had to keep up with
the military standards ofkeeping your body in shape and
(08:09):
looking like the marine type ofthing.
But now, you know, I just I justdon't really care too much now
about my my body image.
SPEAKER_06 (08:18):
If you had a magic wand, would you take that body
back?
Or would you be like, no, I'mcomfortable the way I look right
now?
SPEAKER_04 (08:24):
I would say I would want to take my body back
because when you get older, it'sthe internal things that will
catch up with you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:32):
You know what I'm saying?
So I would say, yeah, I wouldsnap back and get back to my
Marine Corps body and not be uh250 pounds versus my uh 175
pounds.
Okay.
You're not exactly a short dude,exactly, you know.
SPEAKER_06 (08:47):
Yeah.
250, you're still like allmuscle and stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not like, you know, sixfoot, you know, 250 pounds.
And it may seem like I got itall together, but hey, my ideal
weight was that 175 pounds.
I can't even picture you thatsmall.
Yeah, yeah.
I got some pictures to prove it,but you know, I I don't look
like that no more.
But um, I'll like to get down tolike a 200, 215 type of weight.
(09:13):
Okay.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (09:14):
What about you, Santana?
20 years old you versus you now.
Well, um And this is a guy whohas his own gym.
SPEAKER_04 (09:21):
So he'd be in there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah, he's in there.
Um well, I guess we all can lookback, and when we were that age,
we were at our best.
I mean, everything was tight.
You can hit the gym and do 5,000crunches or whatever and get
back, and you're not sore thenext day.
Yeah.
Now I hit five crunches and I'msore, you know, but I still get
it.
I think for me, back in my 20s,I was still learning myself.
(09:46):
I was active and was still inself-care and worked out.
So now I currently still workout now.
So my my whole motto is I had topreserve my sexy as I got older.
You know, time is gonna take itsits toll on you.
And like he says, you know,internal things, you know, I
have aches and pains that maypop up every now and then when I
do certain things, but Iactually try to keep my body fit
(10:06):
and in its shape.
I'm a big component of self-careand being healthy, eating right,
vegan lifestyle, herbs, teas,all that every day is a
lifestyle for me.
I know today I even got my lovemy plant water.
Yeah.
So I drink that every day.
I do fasting and everything torebuild cells and all that.
So yeah, I would like the bodyback, but I look good now to be
(10:29):
in my 50s.
Exactly.
And I'm still, I still got theabs, I still got the, you know,
I'm not as big and you know,ripped as as then.
SPEAKER_06 (10:37):
That's that's the only difference, right?
Because I've known you foryears.
Only difference is like you'renot as big as you used to be,
muscle-wise, but you're cut up.
So you got the body most20-year-olds wish they had.
For me, it's the opposite.
Because I was always a realskinny, scrawny little dude all
my life.
Athlete, played sports, ranaround.
But if you know, we playedcontact sports and you bumped
(10:59):
into me, I was gonna fly offsomewhere because you know I had
zero, zero mass, right?
So for me, I look at so it'sit's interesting that you guys
both kind of touched on it.
So for me, I like the way I looknow a whole lot better because
now I got the muscle and I feelbetter and I look better.
But the way I felt back when Iwas 20 is totally different
(11:22):
because case in point, I went toplay soccer with my son and
nephew about a month back andpulled both my hip flexors,
right?
Just got hurt and don't laugh,but this was during the warm-up.
I didn't even play a game.
I said not to laugh, bro.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (11:40):
So, because you know, back in the day, I just
show up, not even warm up, playa game, play a second, then
another team would call me andbe like, hey, can you play?
Can you sub in tomorrow becausesomebody's out?
If I get hurt, yeah, I bounceback to two days later, three
days later, I'm in the game.
Right.
Well, I'm still limping fromthis shit from a month ago,
right now, and it's gonna takeme a while to heal.
So that's a thing, you know.
(12:00):
I was playing with my with mydog just yesterday.
I threw the ball and he cameback charging full speed, ran
into me, took me out like abowling ball.
So, you know, and I was on theground, I was like, oh man.
You know, it's funny becauseagain, the way I used to heal,
we all used to heal differently,and that's just the human body.
(12:21):
But if I'm being vain, of courseI like the way I look better
now.
If you look at me back then, Imean he's always making fun of
me because he's always been somuch bigger than me.
He'd be like, We got a necksize, what is it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
You got a 12-size neck to come to work with his
neck sitting in the shirt.
Oh my god.
Like, man, how do you have aturtleneck dress shirt?
SPEAKER_06 (12:47):
Oh my goodness.
Oh man.
But yeah, dude, it's it's yeah,the way I look now, I I like the
way I felt then.
I wish I could get back.
So why was it for you guys?
What's influencing your bodyimage now?
SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
I have a couple of uh different types of phases of
influences.
So my first phase was women.
I have to have this this body, Ihave to be, you know, I I had no
choice but to be six foot, butapparently you have to be six
foot and over to, you know, geta good looking woman or
whatever.
You know what I'm saying?
(13:22):
That's what I'm hearing.
Look at us.
I mean, that that shit'sridiculous to me.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06 (13:28):
That's this, that's what they're and again, that's
more of a social media thingbecause that's not something I
grew up hearing.
Yeah.
If I had grown up hearing this,I would have been so
self-conscious, man.
I would have been like, oh mygod, I'll never get a woman.
It's crazy.
Right, right.
But I've never had any issues,right?
So it's crazy, but now it's likebeen propagated by social media.
But go ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, you know, it was this, youknow, women being attracted to
me.
And then uh once I he just madeit too, six foot on the dot.
Yeah, six foot, not six footone.
Just made it, just made thatshit.
Like, oh my god, thank God,thank you, mom.
You know, okay.
I can't I can't give my thecredit to my father because he's
(14:04):
like five foot five.
Yeah.
And my my mom was like, she waslike almost six foot, but not
quite there.
But um dad's a hero, right?
Yeah, I was like, man, what?
But uh, but yeah, you know, onceI got the girl and you know, the
wife and everything, and then uhstarted having kids, now my my
image switched from thisgood-looking single man to I
(14:28):
have to be like almost like alike a superhero for my kids.
Protector.
Like a protector, like, hey,your dad got you.
If you're in any trouble, if youif you need help with anything,
like I'm there for you.
And I have to be a role modelfor my kids too, because it's
like you have to be disciplined,you have to like if you go to my
(14:49):
house, everything, I'm kind ofOCD.
Like everything has to be in acertain place.
It's not just about body image,it's about how people see you on
a daily day, and it helps yourmental health too to have
everything organized in a waywhere you can just get through
the day.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (15:08):
We're visual creatures.
I can't be the only one, butI'll ask.
You ever feel like when you lookat another brother when they
look at you automaticallythere's like this subconscious
way where you're sizing eachother up?
Oh, yeah, that's a naturalinstinct.
Yeah, yeah.
It's almost like bouncers in theclub.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, like they're six,five, six, six, big guys.
SPEAKER_04 (15:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (15:29):
90% of those guys can't fight to save their lives,
they're just big.
And that perception.
The image and perception makesyou not even want to try it.
SPEAKER_04 (15:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (15:36):
I'm not gonna lie, man.
There's been times where I'll bestanding there and I don't care,
I don't think about it,whatever.
But if I'm standing there withmy wife and my kids, and then
there's any perceived possibledanger, you puff your chest out
a little bit.
Right.
You know, you do something tomake me whatever I don't know
what it is, but it's somethingabout that.
The defensive stand, man.
(15:57):
Yeah, you kind of stand there ina way where no one sees it, but
you know it.
You know what's happeninginternally, and then there's a
silent language or something,certain things that's exchange.
If there's another person whowalks in and that person may be
perceived as trouble, you makesure that they see you and they
know what's up.
SPEAKER_04 (16:13):
No, that's very true.
I go through that same thing,you know what I'm saying?
And I was a mixed martial artsinstructor for in the in the
Marine Corps.
And um, and before I became aninstructor, you know, I was I
was heavy in mixed martial arts.
So this guy, he was like sixfoot five, and of course, you
know, I'm six foot, but this guywas damn near 300 pounds.
(16:36):
Mind you, if you remember, I waslike 175 pounds.
Yeah.
And I'm like, how the hell I'mgonna take him down.
But it was like, if you're inthe battlefield, you're gonna go
against guys bigger than you.
So you got to fight him.
I got choked out, man.
I'm waking up seeing stars andstuff.
They was like, go at it again,and I'm go at it again.
And I'm like, okay.
(16:57):
So I finally got him in achokehold.
But I mean, I didn't choke himout.
I finally felt what it was liketo fight someone bigger than
you.
I'm gonna choke him out.
I don't care.
That guy was huge.
Yeah, I got him out.
That guy was huge, but um, butit it it taught me a couple of
things.
It's like you got what it takesto defend yourself and your
(17:19):
family.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
See, with me, um, being always a shorter person, I
was always challenged.
They underestimated me.
One of the things my um a littlesaying we had, um my uncle said,
he was like, because he wasshort in stature too.
He was like, man, no matter whatthe size, as long as you're
there to energize.
unknown (17:37):
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
Do your thing.
And I that was my motto oneverything.
And I looked at everything.
Even growing up, I guess thethings that kind of made me
change or kind of sculpted myimage was um, like I said,
being, you know, I'm like yourdad, you know, five, five,
whatever.
Right.
Growing up, it it bothered me atfirst because I have females
like, oh, you you look good, youknow, but you too short.
(18:01):
You too, you know.
I was like, hey, hey, no matterwhat size.
SPEAKER_02 (18:06):
I mean, hey, they better recognize it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
They better recognize who they messing with.
Exactly.
So I I remember in the thirdgrade, I was in the third grade,
and somebody said that to me.
It was this female that I liked.
She's like, You're a great guy.
I love being with you.
You you're nice looking, alwayslook good, smell good.
But you that short.
I can I was like, all right.
I said, that's something I can'tchange.
SPEAKER_06 (18:29):
Was your voice that deep in the third grade?
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
It was this deep.
Okay.
Hey, I had to compensate, so Iwas doing everything.
So um, I was like, let me changewhat I can.
So I started working out.
Yeah.
So I, you know, started hittingthe gym working out.
You know, I was like, I can'tgrow up, but I can go out.
(18:52):
Old when you were so workingbecause you got into
bodybuilding pretty young,right?
Yeah, I was doing powerliftingand all that.
So I was like, I was alwaysunderestimated because of my
size.
Like, uh, dude.
And I used to wear big hoodiesand stuff when I went into the
gym.
So no one can even tell.
They can't tell.
So you put full plates on thatbar.
Oh man, yeah.
We used I used to wear money,bets like that in the gym.
It's like, oh little man, whatyou can't, you know, whatever,
(19:14):
this and that.
And I was like, all right, let'slet's let's have a bench press
contest.
Let's see how many we can we canrep out.
It's like, ah, they'll laugh andeverything.
And they got this guy onFacebook now that's doing
something like that.
He'll, you know, act like he's aforeign.
I know what's talking about.
Yeah.
I was that guy back in the day.
So I would get down there, youknow, they'll they'll put the
weight on there.
I'm like, ah, you know, theybig.
(19:35):
Imagine, you know, they're sixfoot, two hundred and some
pounds, I'm five, five, onefifty-five.
Right.
So, but they didn't know I canlift three times my weight.
So they down there, they got on,they put two two 45s on, you
know, in the side, and theygetting 10, like, oh, and
struggling at the last year.
I was like, okay.
So I get up under there and Iwas like, man, I think I might
(19:56):
need a spot.
They give me a lift off, youknow.
Right.
People, you know, people thatknew who I was or worked out
with me or been through myworkout resume, like Stefan, you
know, they know.
Yeah.
So he goes hard.
So they like, man, oh man, I bet$100, you know, yeah, you're
gonna get this little dude.
You know, I'm I'm hustling.
I get on there and I was like,man, and they'll they'll lift it
(20:18):
off.
I start shaking a little bit,and I put it on my chest and
like, oh, act like I can't liftit, then I rip it out 20 times.
So what the hell?
Then I come out of my sweater,you know, like this was missing.
Yeah, this is.
See, um they can't even, I got aum tattoo on it.
They used to call me the biglittle man.
So but yeah, I just I justdecided, I just started
(20:42):
accepting myself.
And now when I'm in a room,people say, you know, I'm I'm
short, but they're like, man,when you walk in this room, you
walk in like you 6'6.
Yeah, confidence.
You know, it's that presence,it's that confidence.
So I was like, you know what?
Once I accepted who I am andappreciated and loved me for me,
every bit of it, that aura, thatimage, all that, you expel that
out.
(21:02):
That all that comes out.
And when you walk into a room,they like, oh, everybody
stopped.
And people come up to me,they're like, you like somebody
I need to know.
You, you know, you you look likesomebody.
I was like, I am somebody.
Yeah.
Put that gesture, I am somebody.
You know?
So but once I accepted who I wasand my mindset changed, image
was what I expected of myself orappreciated of myself.
(21:24):
And I was like, regardless ofwhat everybody else thinks or
whatever, I love me.
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:28):
And once you love yourself, everybody else feels
that.
That aura supersedes you, andwhen you walk into a room or
supersede you when you're in ameeting or whatever, and they
they show you respect becauseyou respect yourself.
Right.
And that image and everything isupon you.
SPEAKER_06 (21:41):
So is that something we can kind of like pass on to
someone listening?
No one is not just perfect, butno one thinks they are.
We love ourselves, we love ourown imperfections.
Right, right.
It's really what it is.
But someone might be strugglingwith something else, like maybe
they're overweight and the waythey show up, they don't feel
good about it.
Sometimes there's a lot ofdifferent things, and sometimes
(22:01):
there's maybe a chroniccondition they might have,
things that we don't know.
But is there, I guess, is therea fine line between
self-criticism andself-improvement?
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
It is.
It is, yeah.
Like I said, if you don't loveyourself or see yourself in a
certain way, you're not gonnatake the time to improve or do
anything.
First, when I train someone, Iwas like, the first thing I try
to teach them to acceptthemselves, love themselves.
Yeah, you're here now.
Right.
But everybody's been here.
This is the beginning point.
But we're trying to get you tothis end goal.
(22:34):
And it takes you to have thedetermination and a love for
yourself to push you there.
Because everybody said, Well, Ineed to be motivated.
No, motivation comes second.
It's your determination, yourlove for yourself to get you
there.
Once you start, the motivationcomes.
So love yourself first, acceptyourself first and all this
imperfection, anything, acceptyou, love you.
Because if you're not gonna loveyou, who who else is gonna love
(22:55):
you?
SPEAKER_05 (22:55):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (22:56):
And it it's what you said, it's very, very powerful.
Motivation comes second.
A lot of people think it's theother way around.
I need to be motivated.
How many times have we heardthat?
I need something to motivate meto get up and go do this, right?
Right?
When in reality, it's you do thething and it's the action that
creates the motivation, is whatyou're saying.
I love that.
Um, do you think menunderestimate how much body
(23:18):
image affects their ownconfidence?
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
It's true.
I see it with people in the gymand just working out this every
day.
But with me, you know, too, Iguess the more fit I am, the
more attention I get, the moreconfident I feel.
That's true.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (23:34):
You don't have to be in the gym.
Like I could be wearing a suit,bro.
You know, you got a dress shirton, you know, and and you just
kind of walk into a meeting, andthere's a way that you're
perceived.
First thing they see isdiscipline.
Yeah.
Because you're not just you'renot born with it.
And then again, we're seeing howa lot of these young kids look
these days anyway.
It's like they're not takingcare of themselves either.
So it's not just a naturalthing.
(23:54):
So they can see the discipline,but you are perceived a
different way.
SPEAKER_04 (23:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (23:57):
You shake someone's hand, they can feel that firm
handshake, they can feel thatstrength, and they're like,
there's a way that people seethemselves, which is why I ask
if there is a lack ofconfidence, even subconsciously,
from men when they have thisbody image that they're thinking
about.
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
It could be learned too, like with me, one of the
things my dad taught me, um, Iguess the perception, I learned
adaptability.
Like we say when I'm going to ameeting or whatever, something
corporate, I'm gonna look thepart.
I'm gonna look my best at that.
I'm gonna have the suit, tie,everything like that.
But if I'm going to rock with myboys, I'm up in the hood, I'm
not gonna wear a suit.
I'm gonna put on the scullyhoodie, I'm gonna look like,
(24:34):
hey, don't in every and I guessin every um atmosphere, I want
to look like you don't want totry me in that.
So if I need, if I'm in a hoodatmosphere, hey, that dude hood.
If I'm in the corporate, oh,he's about his business.
If I'm everyday lounging or I'min the gym, like, I ain't gonna
mess with a little bit.
Nobody lounge better.
Yeah, exactly.
So that's adaptability and beable to adapt to your
(24:55):
surroundings so that you fit in,like the whole saying back, we
wear the mask.
Right.
You have to know when to take itoff, when and when to change it,
when to put on the right mask,when not.
But I think the image of kidstoday, they just like I'm gonna
look this way everywhere I go.
They haven't learned thatadaptability and how to be a
chameleon or to be presentablein the environment that you're
(25:17):
in.
SPEAKER_04 (25:18):
I agree with that, but I also have an other side I
because sometimes I go againstthe grain in some of my
environments.
Like, for example, the corporateenvironment.
Everybody wanna have a suit andtie and all this other stuff.
I got tattoos, I wear earrings,I do, you know, all that.
But when I come there, I come ina suit, but I have my my uh
(25:39):
shirt unbuttoned down.
I got my chains on, I got, youknow what I'm saying?
I kind of, you know, I got apinky ring on, I got nice watch
on, I still got my earrings on,but I got a clean cut and I'm
suited, booted, ready to go.
So when I speak to them, it'slike, oh, okay, this this guy
got tattoos, he he this, okay.
(25:59):
Let me let me listen to him.
SPEAKER_06 (26:01):
But let me ask you that.
Yeah, yeah.
Gotcha.
Did you do that the very firsttime, or they just at this
point, they know your reputationprecedes you, so they know the
caliber of person you are?
SPEAKER_04 (26:12):
No, I did it the first time.
Really?
Yeah, that's like how muchconfidence I have in myself.
Because if you're not gonnaaccept me for who I am, then
that's on you.
SPEAKER_06 (26:22):
But let me ask you this though.
Yeah.
We actually had a conversationabout this where we talked about
authenticity, right?
Right.
Authenticity is great, right?
But be authentic when it'snecessary?
No, be authentic when it's trulyauthentic.
And what this young lady said onthe pod was it's not authentic
to be authentic in the workplacebecause you're not the
(26:43):
workplace.
SPEAKER_04 (26:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (26:45):
The workplace is the workplace, and she was basically
saying, I can go in there and doa deal for 15, 20 million
dollars and conduct myself theway I would conduct myself
authentically with my friendsand family.
So I have to show up a differentway.
Okay.
So I guess I'm asking, not thatit's wrong, the reason I'm
pushing back is I'm asking, whatgave you the size balls that you
had to walk into a meeting witha pinky ring shred on button
(27:05):
every time you show upsomewhere, there's a there's a
look.
Right.
And it's usually it's veryunique, which is cool because I
can see that authenticity inthere.
But in the corporateenvironment, how do you pull
that off?
SPEAKER_04 (27:17):
Um, it's going back to like my man over here said,
you have to give like an aura.
Is that that energy that you putoff?
Right.
So, you know, I was on multiplepanels at my job, and uh, we
were speaking on leadershipdevelopment, being a consultant,
being a project manager, workingwith multi-million dollar
(27:39):
companies and all this otherstuff.
And I walk in there with thesame getup, you know, with a
two-piece suit, sometimesthree-piece suit, and the image
that they have of me is kind ofsimilar to like like a
celebrity, for example, TheRock, right?
You know, The Rock, he has histattoos, he he walks in there,
(27:59):
and everyone knows he's comingin there and he's gonna take
control of the room, right?
His energy, his aura, hispresence, everything.
So when I walk into that, that'show I feel when I walk into
there, and that's how theyperceive me.
And everyone talks to me withrespect.
They say sir, they say, youknow, gentlemen or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (28:20):
But you know, when I'm not in a corporate setting,
I kind of still have that, evenwith when I'm with my friends
and and my family.
And that's how I love to dress.
I I love style, I love dressingup with, you know, red bonhoms
sometimes.
And sometimes, you know, youdon't have to spend all it, all
this money to have this image.
(28:41):
You could just go to different,like uh, for example, um Zara.
Sometimes I just go to Zara, getsome stuff off the rack.
Sometimes I dress it up withsome stuff off a Sheen or Amazon
or whatever.
And um so it's your creativityputting things together.
Yes, yes.
It's just like who I am.
Like we talked about artists andeverything like that.
(29:02):
That I'm not gonna change myselfto accommodate for your comfort.
I'm just gonna just be who I am.
This is me all the time.
Yeah.
And it gives me uh a sense ofpeace and happiness because now
I don't have to live up to astandard for someone else.
SPEAKER_06 (29:18):
All right, that's well said.
What is an insecurity, just oneinsecurity that you've learned
to embrace or laugh at?
Uh hair loss.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (29:27):
Yeah.
So when I was saying like Jointhe club, man, bro.
Man, but I joined the club a fewtimes and I got some feedback,
and I'm like, man, should I go,should I go to Tupac or Suge
Knight?
Everybody calling me Sug Knightfor some odd damn reason.
Yeah.
I was uh at uh fellowship, CamNewton Spot, and one of their
marketing directors came up, andone of my homeboys, Tyreek
(29:49):
Washington, was there, where Dr.
Tyreek Washton was there, and uhthey was like, Hey, can we take
some pictures of you and allthis other?
I was like, Yeah, sure.
So they took a picture, and youknow, that picture.
Picture you got a lot of viewsand a lot of likes and all this
other stuff.
And on the comments, they waslike, hey, I see Suge Knight is
back and something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
And I'm like, oh man, not again.
Well, when I'm I'm gonna behonest, man, you do look Suge
Nicey.
You look like it's if you didthe ball ahead.
SPEAKER_04 (30:21):
If I did the ball ahead, it's over with, man.
But like I said, I have a badhairline day, so I slap on that
cap type of thing.
But yeah, you know, I laugh atit because I mean, like, you
know, my wife, she embraced itand she was like, hey, you look
good either way with with thefibers or without the hair.
So yeah, yeah.
So without the fibers, it'syou're bald.
SPEAKER_06 (30:42):
Yeah, it's like you could see it's thinning on the
top, and it's like, oh man.
I started losing my hair in mylate 20s, bro.
It was like it was thinning andI had locks.
So it was just it was just thin,yeah, it looked funny as hell
because you know, you couldn'ttell if I didn't show you, but I
would know.
And then eventually over theyears, it just got worse and
worse and worse.
(31:02):
And one day I just you knowdecided I was just gonna shave
my head.
First of all, everyone loved itbecause I was in the corporate
world and I had locks orwhatever.
So I show up in a suit the nextday and people were like, Thank
God, I'm glad you did this,right?
And I'm like, Really?
Like, no one was gonna sayanything.
And then one guy was likewhispers.
Yeah, right.
One guy was like, You got a niceshaped head.
I never thought about that.
(31:23):
But yes, it's something I did Idid struggle with it, but it's
been decades, so I'm not I'm notconcerned about it.
But for me, what's always beensomething that I've had to
embrace, and I didn't embrace ituntil probably the last, I don't
know, maybe past 10 years or so.
Right, yeah.
It was the same thing.
He said my height.
I was like, I'm a short dude.
And it was always something toprove.
(31:44):
When I was a kid, I'm always thesmallest kid in in class.
So I'm gonna pick a fight attimes just to make a point.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
So I wasn't always that way.
I wasn't just troublemaker, butum, there were times, like, you
know, playing with my friends, Ihad to be the loudest voice.
I had to be the leader.
You know, when I was in uh in myband when I was doing music,
(32:06):
same thing.
I had to be the leader.
I had to be the guy who wrotethe most songs, I had to be this
guy.
Always wanted to be that guybecause, and maybe
subconsciously I wascompensating for it, but at the
same token, that's kind of who Iam anyway.
Like I take the lead, I takecharge.
SPEAKER_04 (32:18):
You know what's funny?
You you said about mentioningabout height.
I was called wasn't tall enoughbefore when I was dating.
It was uh it was this one woman,she was about maybe five foot
seven, and you know, we met on adate nap type of thing.
I would have been eye to eyewith her.
And she was like, I was like,what's wrong?
It's like I thought she would betaller.
(32:40):
I'm like, I'm taller, I'mlooking like looking over you.
You got heels on, yeah.
It's just like she wants somelike basketball looking.
You gotta pick her up, yeah,like a baby.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Like, come on.
I didn't had that joy.
You you too short.
You they expect you to pick.
I man, I picked this one girlup.
She was like 280.
I was like, what?
You want me to rather and I andI walked with her and then I put
her down, she just looked at melike, mm-mm.
I didn't know you could do that.
(33:11):
I was like, see, no matter whatthe size.
Like Steph said, I used to beself-conscious about my height
too.
Like I said, back, it was at ayounger age that I accepted it
and was like, man, forget this.
I I don't care what y'all say,whatever.
Um, because I used to compensatefor it.
I was a funny guy and doing allthat, but yeah, it's funny by
(33:33):
nature.
That's just what I do.
Until females would say, Oh,yeah, you're cute, you this, but
you just too short.
And I was like, well, damn it,that ain't gonna change, you
know.
And we could move from there.
Right.
But once I accepted that andstarted having that confidence,
I noticed throughout the yearsit didn't matter.
You know, they would say theywanted this six foot tall, this
(33:55):
whatever, but I was stillpulling them.
Yeah.
In college, I had a girlfriendthat was on the basketball team.
She was six four.
Wow.
And look, and they was like,people like, man, how'd you get
that?
I said, why wouldn't I?
Right.
I was everybody's hero and I didstuff like that.
I was like, it didn't matter ifyou portray that weakness or you
put that on French, they'regonna feed on that.
(34:17):
Yeah.
My image, you know, I wasconfident who I was, regardless
of I could have been 3-9.
I'm gonna still, she can be 6'6or whoever, I'ma still push up
on her.
SPEAKER_04 (34:25):
Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
You know, most men are intimidated by, you know,
like their image of what theirlack of.
I was like, you know what?
I don't care.
And I tell I I remember going uptelling the woman, you know, she
was, we was talking, I was like,hey, you need a short man story
to tell your girls.
Yeah.
Hey, I'm gonna do that for youtonight.
So I mean, and they laughed,they was like, man, you you
coming here.
That's why they said I walk intoa room like I'm like 6'6,
(34:48):
whatever the confidence thatgoes out before me, you know,
that that whole aura, thatenergy.
Yeah.
So I was like, you know what?
I can't change it.
I'm gonna accept it and embraceit and move forward.
Like you were saying back in thedays of perception when they saw
me growing up because I was ashorter guy or whatever, they
always oftentimes tried me.
My mom was, she was about fournine.
(35:08):
She was a firecracker.
She was eight, but and and sheknew I was gonna be short, so
she made sure I knew how to takecare of myself.
Right.
So growing up, I did martialarts, I boxed, I learned how to
use anything as a weapon.
And I I mean, I took thatliterally.
I I would make weapons in ourshed and do it.
Well, but people would would tryme, but they did that once, no
matter what the size.
SPEAKER_06 (35:29):
No, that's gonna be the name of this episode.
Do you think your health goalsor your training regimen, I
should say, are truly aboutwellness or is it about
appearance?
Uh for me it's both.
SPEAKER_04 (35:47):
But it's it's heavy on the wellness side now.
I used to work out every day.
It was like, I don't know, likebreathing.
And I used to eat whatever.
You know, I used to go tobuffets, I used to go eat
anything.
It was it was crazy.
And I used to just burn it off.
But now, since I'm older, youyou don't got that high
metabolism to just burneverything.
(36:09):
And then on top of that, now yougot family.
Now you're busy with, you know,taking care of your wife, taking
care of your kids, all thisother stuff.
Plus, you got a career andeverything like that.
So now it's more ofconcentrating on my diet.
My diet is everything.
Most of the time I eat once aday.
You know, then I have you know.
Hey, it works once you get thatfor you.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (36:31):
Both of you guys with that whole yeah, uh, what
do you call you'd be fasting?
This guy goes 72 hours a month,which is some wild shit.
Yeah.
No, every two hours, bro.
I'm subbing down and I atealready.
I think you have to build upthat momentum.
But I also, our metabolism is adifferent my body type is oh
yeah.
I if I don't hit the gym in twoweeks, I lose 10 pounds.
(36:53):
Okay.
That's why he had that 12 neck.
SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
He was see, so he has to compensate for that.
I'm saying, God damn.
SPEAKER_04 (37:04):
Hey, man, hey, that's a superpower.
You can do that.
SPEAKER_06 (37:06):
God damn, having that 12-neck, man, god you be
hitting on 12 neck, I'm tellingyou, man.
It's got it wasn't funny at at30, but at 50, it's like, thank
god I got a 12 neck.
SPEAKER_04 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you have to you have tocount your blessings on that
one, man, because a lot ofpeople can't can't do that.
You know what I'm saying?
And we have to, for me, it'slike, okay, I need to
concentrate on my diet because,you know, my sibling is having
some health issues right now,you know what I'm saying?
And I'm like, I have to reallyconcentrate on the eating and
(37:39):
snacking and all the otherstuff.
Like, I have to really getdisciplined on that that aspect.
Everything else, like myphysical appearance, will fall
in place if I focus on thatdieting.
SPEAKER_06 (37:51):
That's true, you know?
So for me, it was always aboutappearance.
That's why I go in the gym andworry about the exercises that
would make me look good and notfocus on endurance strength.
I was just like, no, I just needto build a certain shape, and I
was sculpting my body, right?
And that's all I was about.
Yeah.
Now it's changed to I care wayless about how I look, and I
(38:13):
want to focus on longevity.
Exactly.
Prolonging my life, making surethat things don't hurt or take
and heal faster, to your point.
So now I'm I can say I'm 85%wellness and 15% appearance.
Yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (38:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:27):
And you've done my workout, so you know with me.
That's why I am come back.
Like, but I mean, prime example,you said you went in there just
to sculpt the look.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:36):
My whole thing is about functionality.
SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
So when when he started doing my workouts, you
know, I'm having you doeverything, use muscles that you
haven't used.
Yep.
You know, I'm big on likecalisthenics and everything.
I especially as you get older,you you start, your body starts
to change or whatever.
You have to have thatfunctionality to be able to have
that longevity.
So not necessarily about image.
Like you said, it's gonna come.
Right.
If you do the right steps and dothe right thing, the image is
(39:00):
gonna come, the look is gonna bethere.
But you just gotta develop youryour not only your muscles, your
joints, everything workstogether.
It's a unit.
So that was one of the reasons Ibecame vegan.
Um I had some health issues, andhonestly, through what I ate, I
made food my medicine.
And well, I can say I had alittle about with prostate
cancer.
(39:20):
But through diet, exercise,vegan, I did herbs, sour sap,
all that things.
Did Dr.
Sabi's whole regimen.
SPEAKER_01 (39:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
The last three biopsies, nothing.
They couldn't find it.
Where it was that even testeddown to the DNA.
It was like, I don't know whatyou did or what you're doing,
keep doing it.
That's all amazing.
That's all amazing, brother.
So it's about health, longevity,functionality.
Yeah.
You know, I work out still fourto five days a week, but it's
not, I'm not in there liftingheavy weight like I used to,
(39:50):
benching 370 pounds, squatting,you know, five.
Nah, I'm not doing that.
I put some little weight onthere and do a lot of reps,
whatever, and do functionality,calisthenics, and everything
like that.
But because I, you don't heallike you used to, you know, it's
not about that image with me.
I was like, I still look goodfor my my age, and but I want to
be healthy and I want to be herefor the long haul to take care
(40:11):
of my kids and family to bethere.
SPEAKER_06 (40:13):
That's well said, man.
So, what would self-acceptancelook like without giving up on
ourselves?
Look like me?
No.
You know, because there's thatthere's that, you know, person
listening and the message couldbe misconstrued, right?
Whether you're hearing, well,accept yourself the way you are,
love yourself.
(40:33):
We're saying both.
We're saying that that's whereit starts, but then there's
something you want to fix.
You can go ahead and take thesteps, the actions, and the
motivation will follow as yousaid, Santana, right?
But what does that acceptancelook like?
SPEAKER_04 (40:45):
I would say you have to you have to accept the fact
that you're going to havedifferent phases and different
images of yourself throughouttime.
Okay, accept that because you'renot gonna be the same person
five years ago, ten years ago,not even a week ago.
Because you're you're on thiscourse to your ultimate self,
(41:07):
right?
Yeah.
So you're not gonna hit yourultimate self next year.
You're gonna get hit yourultimate phase next year.
So that next phase, you're justgonna be like, okay, this year
I'm gonna do bodybuilding.
The next year you might say, uh,I don't want to do bodybuilding
no more.
I want to just focus on healthylifestyle habits.
(41:29):
And that is a part of who you'regoing to become.
SPEAKER_03 (41:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
Accept the fact that you're not perfect.
Accept the fact that you'regoing to change.
You're going to go through ametamorphosis throughout your
whole entire life.
And all because you're 80 yearsold, 90 years old doesn't mean
you're the wisest person on theface of the earth.
All because you're a president,all because if you're a pope and
all this other stuff, thatdoesn't mean you're like the
(41:55):
wisest person on the face of theearth.
You just have to accept yourselfnow and accept your change.
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
Yeah.
One of the things too, I wantedto make clear for people that
say, you know, hobo, accept whoyou are.
When you do that, understand theprocess.
You have to accept whollyeverything.
If you're overweight 300 poundsand I accept who I am, then
accept the consequences thatcome along with that.
Oh man, wow.
You have to really, and peopledon't think about that.
I say, okay, well, I'mcomfortable with okay.
(42:23):
If you're comfortable with whoyou are, be comfortable with
diabetes.
Be comfortable with high umhypertension.
Be comfortable with the coremorbid conditions that can come
with where you are right now,accepting that what you are.
Right.
So please understand that I Idon't knock you for accepting
who you are, but accept itwholly because it's gonna
change, you know, that thoseprocesses, it's gonna change how
(42:43):
you react, how you deal withthings day to day.
If you accept that you want tobe unhealthy or overweight, then
accept the things that can comealong with it.
You accept that you're gonna belive a healthier lifestyle,
gonna change your life, want tobetter yourself, hey, then
accept that things.
If you did have high bloodpressure and you did the
building blocks of things to getrid of that, because you accept
it, like I want to live to behere with my kids.
(43:05):
I want to be a be a healthierperson, I want to get over this
illness or whatever.
So that's accepting that realityinstead of what you're doing
now.
So, and you accept all theresponsibility that comes along
with it.
SPEAKER_06 (43:17):
Well, well said, that's powerful.
How can men support each otherin those insecurities?
The biggest challenge, we're nottalking about no damn
insecurities with no otherdudes.
Right.
So it's you know, it's funnybecause now I'm older, it's
different.
Because I can go into a regulargym and see a dude doing an
exercise and be like, bro, Iwant to get those arms.
Tell me what you do.
(43:37):
I have no problem beingcomfortable with saying that,
right?
But most men still struggle withthat.
If they have an insecurity,they're not sharing it with
anyone else.
Right.
How can we support each otherbetter with those, with the
whole body image thing?
SPEAKER_04 (43:52):
Doing activities together, get them out their
comfort zone, get themcomfortable to open up about
some of their insecurities.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06 (44:01):
Because I was gonna say outside of the gym, right?
Because a lot of people whostruggle with that, they're not
in the gym.
Right, right, right, right.
So, what do you find those guys?
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
And wh how do you help them?
Us as men, we have to learn toget over the ego thing.
We think it's not mancho orcertain people look at us a
certain way, or even, you know,if you open up, it's considered
a a feminine trait or whatever.
Yo, he he's off, he this iswhatever.
SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
I think if we're gonna be better, we have to
embrace our village, the peoplethat are around us, and like you
said, compliment each other.
Be and it ain't in a way thatyou're trying to be feminine or
whatever, but you know, where weare and whether it's the
perception.
So, and that can be a hindranceto a lot of us as men because we
can open up and we suffersilently, and it ends up being
detrimental to us.
(44:45):
But um, I think like if weembrace the unity as a man and
you know, we help each otherlike like sisters, they all hey,
they they'll high depth, youknow, each other, whatever, and
they can somebody can havestretch marks, they'll oh girl,
work them stretch marks.
Hey, you know, they do thatlittle thing that we love each
other.
Yeah, they're really comfortablewith that.
They'd be like, come do stretchmarks, come do, you know,
they'll get your hair.
(45:06):
Exactly.
See, men don't do that.
SPEAKER_06 (45:08):
And it's we don't compliment each other like in
the gym, we might.
Because gym culture isdifferent.
Yeah, out in real life, butagain, as we get older, we get
more comfortable with thatbecause I'm not concerned about
your small mind thinking.
Like if you misinterpret whatI'm saying, right?
You know, I love my brothers, Iwant to see them succeed, I want
to see them thrive.
So I might pay that compliment,but I guess it's something that
(45:29):
we don't do nearly as well aswomen.
Like we just don't do that forbrothers.
SPEAKER_00 (45:33):
Yeah, yeah, because we are worried about what they
may perceive their what they maythink.
Oh, this trying to no ditty.
SPEAKER_06 (45:40):
Yeah, yeah, no didn't say and that's the thing.
You're worried about what peoplemight think, and you're worried
about that because that's that'sa concern for a lot of men.
Yeah, it is.
You guys have been veryvulnerable and very open, so
this is along those same lineshere.
When you strip away comparison,ego, expectation.
We talked about body image alot, but who are you really?
(46:04):
And are you okay with thatversion of yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (46:07):
With me, um, I always try to be better than
what I was yesterday.
So I can't say I'm okay withmyself because I'm always
constantly improving.
Life is a learning journey.
SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:17):
Um, I try to learn something every day and get
fulfilled every day.
And I so I'm never comfortablewith where I am in a sense, but
I don't think it's it's lookingat it as a weakness because I'm
always better myself.
If it's learning from, you know,a mistake I did before to get
better, to get over that.
Even interacting with my mywife, my daughter, I have to
(46:39):
check myself and better myselfand how I'll speak to them or
discipline or everything.
So it's always I'm alwaysstriving to be better every day.
If it's just 1% better, I'vedone if I've done one thing
better than I did yesterday,it's successful.
But me, I can't, I can't say,you know, I'm I'm gonna be
settled and happy with, youknow, because I want to continue
to to improve.
(46:59):
Even on my deathbed, I'm tryingto, you know.
I'm fighting, you know, I'mgonna give my last break.
And it's better than yesterday.
You know, you know.
SPEAKER_06 (47:09):
I'm gonna die better than anybody's ever died before.
SPEAKER_00 (47:12):
No one's ever died better than me.
Put a trompe on them, but butyeah, um once you get
comfortable with yourself andyou accept everything about you,
you can't do anything butimprove every day.
Because you you have thatmindset, that awareness.
(47:33):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And you're in tune with stuff.
So every day is an increase.
Nice.
unknown (47:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (47:38):
How about yourself, Kelly?
Who are you if we strip away allthat other stuff we were talking
about, expectations, ego, andall of that.
Who are you?
And are you okay with thatversion of yourself?
SPEAKER_04 (47:47):
I would say I'm okay with the version of myself
because the person that I am isa person who's resilient, a
person who's always focused andalways putting people before,
you know, myself, which can be apro and it could be a con.
But my history of my life, I'mblessed with the good experience
(48:09):
I had and the bad experiences.
You know, like my brother saidover here, it's like, you know,
I'm going to continue to um seekimprovement for myself.
But yeah, yeah, that's I Iaccept all of me.
And if I go tomorrow, I'd behappy on the version that I
became.
Nice.
SPEAKER_06 (48:28):
And one final thought from each of you, which
is a message to your youngerself since then I get it
started.
No matter what.
No.
SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
Um just be okay with who you are.
You're you're never gonna beperfect, but you can be good at
what you do.
You can be perfect withinyourself.
Believe in yourself, confidencecomes within.
You can always be better.
You're always better.
One of the things that I believein affirmations, mindfulness.
If I could tell my younger selfsome of the beliefs and things
(49:00):
that I had, I would have neverstruggled or went through some
of the issues that I I wentbecause it was all about, you
know, not being self-aware, um,self-confident, and trying to
portray an image that otherpeople had made for me or what I
saw instead of accepting who Iam and instead of being what
they want me to be, to be who Iwanted to be.
(49:22):
Yeah.
And one of the things I learnedalso was I can meet people where
they are without losing who Iam.
And that's what I would tellmyself.
You know, to still be you at alltimes, never compromise, but
understand the process,understand the environment,
understand your abilities, andum let's know who you are.
Powerful.
(49:42):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (49:43):
Kelly.
Yeah.
Um I would say continue tolisten to your mother.
My mother used to tell me, keepyour eyes on the prize.
No matter what type ofdistractions or obstacles that
come in your way, there's alwaysgonna be that.
There's always gonna bechallenges, there's always gonna
be something come up to push youa step back.
(50:04):
But always remember that there'smore than one way to get over an
obstacle, to get over achallenge and to always love
yourself because there's gonnabe times when the people will
may say things to you, may dothings to you that will always
question yourself, but alwayshave confidence in what you
(50:25):
believe in, and always haveconfidence that you will get
through any challenge if youbelieve in yourself.
Beautiful.
What about you, Stefan?
What would you say to youryounger self?
SPEAKER_06 (50:35):
For me, it would be I have everything that I need, I
am everything that I need.
I used to really be hung up onthinking that I need things and
people, and I don't.
So when it comes to things, manymaterial things, that's
different today because I haveresponsibilities towards other
(50:56):
people.
But that's pretty much where itstops.
I wish I would have realized along time ago that I don't need
things or people.
I would have been a lot happier.
I want to thank you guys forbeing here, man.
It's been an amazingconversation.
I I I picked the right twopartners to have a conversation
like this with.
You guys brought a lot of wisdomto the pod.
(51:18):
So thank you both.
Santana Kelly, thanks for beinghere, fellas.
Santana, you are gonna do theoutro today, and you have to
pick whichever celebrity youwant to be, and uh, I will send
you the monologue so you can goand get started, bro.
SPEAKER_00 (51:31):
I don't know.
I just been listening to a lotof Trump.
That's okay.
Hey, let's listen to the truth.
SPEAKER_06 (51:37):
Hey, you wanna do the I do Donald?
I do Trump.
All right, cool.
Hold on.
That's just gonna get meexpelled from the damn country.
I know they're gonna come afteryou.
All right, so are we changing itup?
Bernie Mac, it is?
unknown (51:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (51:51):
Alright.
All right, Bernie Mac, it is.
Do your thing, brother.
SPEAKER_00 (51:54):
Hey man, I'm here.
This is burning the Mac,motherfucker.
I'm telling you, y'all ain'tworrying about stretch marks and
getting these muscles and shit.
Y'all need to be worrying aboutgetting some.
But I ain't gonna say that thisis another podcast, but I ain't
scared of them, motherfuckers.
So you better listen to the MacMan on here and manhood manners.
(52:15):
Love yourself and love themmotherfuckers that don't hate
you too.
Cause I'm loving Mac, I'm dark,black, man.
This whole room gets dark inthem motherfuckers.
But I'm gonna tell you, manhoodmanners.
This is the Mac Man.
You turn in to get some goodnews, get some good vibes.
We'll see you next week.
Get out of them, motherfucker.
(52:37):
That's good.
That's really good, brother.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.