Should Cancel Culture Be Cancelled?

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Outrage is cheap. Accountability isn’t. We dig into the messy middle between “cancel culture” and real consequences, asking when someone should lose a platform, when a boycott makes sense, and where the line is between justice and harassment. From a comedian’s clapback at a heckler to a sportscaster’s racist slur, we unpack how context and power shape what should happen next—and why doxxing and threats do nothing but poison the well. Along the way, we explore the pull of viral pile-ons, the performative nature of public condolences, and the way social media turns grief and anger into content. The conversation gets candid about language, culture, and power dynamics—especially around the N-word—without dodging the hard parts. We talk about who gets to say what, why historical weight still matters, and how respect sometimes means choosing not to use a word even if a song invites you to sing it. We also look at what actually works. Quietly voting with your wallet can move brands and policies more than any hashtag storm. Pulling distribution when public standards are violated protects audiences without endorsing vigilantism. And building a culture that values disagreement, grace, and the possibility of change beats chasing clout for fifteen minutes in a comment section. If you’re tired of online mobs but still believe in standards, this one’s for you. Hear practical ways to withdraw support, set boundaries, and demand better without becoming what you oppose. If it resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more people can find thoughtful conversations like this.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_08 (00:00):
That it is so used among pretty much everybody,
it's partially our fault.
Because we use it so much inmusic and things like that?
That too, yes, especially, butit's become also like a term of
uh it just it's like friendship,I guess it's just a term for
everything.
The word is used for pretty mucheverything now.
It doesn't have the same meaningit used to have.
No, it has exact same meaning.

(00:20):
It's like additional.

SPEAKER_07 (00:21):
I actually used it that way.
Yeah, so it has to do with who'ssaying it.
So I'll give you an I'll giveyou some too many examples to
give you, but I'll give you one.
The word has exact the samemeaning.
It's even more impactful andmore powerful today.
We've tried, we've attempted bytaking it back.
When you hear the phrase cancelculture, what does it mean to

(00:43):
you?
See, automatically when peoplesay they want to cancel cancel
culture, I get irritated becauseI hear that we want to let them
get away with what they'vealways gotten away with.
They shouldn't be heldaccountable.
In today's conversation, I wasforced to look at this with a

(01:03):
different lens.
In speaking to my daughter Nai,who is 27, Julian, my son, who
is 20, and my nephew, Christian,aka Kiki, who's also 20, and
they expressed their opinions.
Growing up in today's society,they will have a totally
different perspective than Idid.

(01:24):
Then again, they grew up withless friction and less racism.
It's exposed more today, but mygeneration dealt with it just as
the previous generation suffereda lot more than I did.
But what are your thoughts oncancel culture?
Should we cancel it?
Should we hold peopleaccountable?
Or is there a middle ground?

(01:45):
As always, we appreciate youjoining us.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:53):
In the living room, souls gathered, making a choice,
speaker life's great new sugarcode, from black man teacher
word keynote, never small,physical strife, hustling heart,
impulse of life, race, love.
And triple promo is crying toechoes, defying time, experts
and friends, powerful life,tackling issues that never end

(02:15):
from our perspective.

SPEAKER_08 (02:17):
It's been so long.

SPEAKER_07 (02:18):
Yeah, it's been so long.
I'm so glad you guys made thetime and came back.
Thank you for another episode.
This is going to be aninteresting one because we're
gonna talk about cancel culture.
I like this one.
When you hear cancel culture,how are you impacted by it?
How is it bugging you?
What's happening here?

SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Our generation cancels people who are already
famous, who are already quote,made it.
Um they already have a hugefollowing, but they do one thing
wrong that you know a lot ofpeople think is a bad thing or
something they shouldn't havesaid, and they're like, cancel
this person, like very smallperson, but still a huge
following.
This comedian named Matt Reif,he was body shaming a fat girl.

SPEAKER_05 (02:57):
He's a comedian.
He's a comedian.

SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
It's stand up.
You know who he is?
Yeah, I should know him.
So he was at a show, and I thinkthis girl was heckling him.
So he was clapping back abouther weight because that's what
all he had to go off of.
Next show it was cancel MattReif, cancel Matt Rife.
He's body shaming.
You're just soft, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_06 (03:14):
No, you're just a mean fat girl.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
And you should have shut the hell up if you were so
sensitive.
You're at a comedic show.
Cancel him for what?
He's just being funny.
That's his job.
Be cold.

SPEAKER_06 (03:23):
So you know you can go to the show and not sit close
to the stage and talk to thecomedian.

SPEAKER_08 (03:27):
Yeah.
Let's just be you cannot dothat.
Council culture's gone way toofar.

SPEAKER_06 (03:30):
So it's just hypersensitive, but it's I
really feel like it's a bunch ofI think that what it is is like
feels like mean girls behindtheir keyboards.
Like things that they know theywouldn't be able to say, those
things that you say in your mindwhen you're people watching, you
get you get away with it online.
But people take it far.
Like they'll have a differenceof opinion, and all of a sudden

(03:52):
they're posting your privateFacebook page, your job is being
affected.
Your home address.
Overnight, your kids are beingtargeted, your parents are being
contacted, and it's not ever,it's not usually something like
insane.
It'll be one thing, but becauseof social media, most people
would have gotten away withmaking a mistake or having a bad
encounter, but now it's ruinedtheir entire lives.

(04:12):
And I just don't like thatpeople have so much power to
destroy lives like that.
And it's and it's not evensomething that they keep on
worrying about.
They'll just destroy your lifeand then move on to the next
person to cancel.

SPEAKER_08 (04:22):
I was just gonna mention another topic with
cancel culture.
There was recently uh a girl onsocial media who, you know, she
said the N-word, who knows howmany years ago before she got
famous.
Is she white?
Uh Pokemon?
No, no, no, no.
It's a Hispanic girl, and youhear this every day within every
Hispanic community.
It's almost normal now.
People have their differentviews on it, it's fine.

(04:44):
But they went ahead andthreatened this girl's bloodline
and cancelled her to no ends.
She had to come online, make apublic apology.
People was flooding her commentswith hate, and it's like this
you're taking it as far asthreatening somebody's life over
something your best friendprobably said 10 seconds ago

(05:04):
next to you.

SPEAKER_05 (05:05):
And then they attack kids.

SPEAKER_07 (05:06):
Well, well, well, hang on a second, hang on, hang
on a goddamn second here.
Let me start by saying this.
If she said it 10-15 years agobefore she was famous, it's not
something she's constantlydoing.
Going back to dig that up, tocome back with it, to cancel
her, I think is totally wrong.
Secondly, I think it's wrong togo after them personally.

(05:28):
I think if you go after thebusiness, it's one thing.
They have a platform, you wantto take away the platform.
I think that's where it shouldstop.
But again, keep in mind what Isaid earlier in the previous
conversation.
People are tribal.
If you pluck one out of thecrowd and say, What are you
doing?
What do you mean you're gonnathreaten her kids and her life
and her mother and it- Oh, yeah,yeah, you're right.
It's kind of stupid.
I shouldn't be doing that.
But in the group, keyboard ninjawarriors, then of course they

(05:51):
just go in there relentless.
But I do want to go back to Ihate trends.
Me, too.
Oh god.
Those two words are trendy tome.
Cancel culture.
It's not cancel culture.
Yeah, I should get canceled ifyou deserve to be canceled.
I think I should take away yourability to make money from this
platform if you offend certainpeople.
And it's not so much if youoffend certain people, I

(06:13):
shouldn't say it like thatbecause it's like, well, are we
soft?
Are we, you know, we're notthick skinned, or whatever it
is.
For generations and generations,you're able to get away with
certain things.
I'll give you an example.
The sport commentator, and thisis before your time, he was
talking about the basketballteam from I forget which
college, but it was mostly blackgirls.
And you call them nappy headedhoes.

(06:36):
This is a white man.
Not a nappy headed hoes.
Should we cancel that guy orshould we just keep listening?

SPEAKER_05 (06:42):
Nappy headed hoes?

SPEAKER_07 (06:44):
Yeah, a bunch of nappy headed hoes.

SPEAKER_05 (06:46):
Jesus, not a bunch of.

SPEAKER_07 (06:47):
Well, that's just blatant.
Right?
So when he said that, theinternet was in an uproar and
decided to cancel that dude andhe lost his job.
That makes sense to me.
You shouldn't have a platform.
Now, if you take that, nowhere's the thing, here's what
I'll say.
If you take that to a podcastaudience or to some other
platform where your hatefulaudience still wants to listen

(07:09):
to you, that's fine.
Right?
You shouldn't be at the games,you know, commenting on the
games.
But if you watch it on TV thenext day you want to talk about
it, sure, do that on yourplatform.
I just want to know.
You can have a sports radio forthat shit.
I'll find it.
That's their team.

SPEAKER_05 (07:25):
Where were they at?

SPEAKER_07 (07:25):
What are you talking about?
He said a button point.
Let me let was the buttons.
I might be wrong about what hesaid.
Hang on.
It was the buttons on thecorner.

SPEAKER_06 (07:34):
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_09 (07:36):
A little bit of rutkers in Tennessee, the
women's final.
Yeah, Tennessee won last nightseven championship for patch
number nine.
Man, they beat Watkins by 13points.
That's some rough girls fromRutgers, man.
They got tattoos and hardcorehoes.
That's a mapping head of thenumbers.

SPEAKER_06 (07:56):
That is okay.
No, that's a lot.
That's a lot.

SPEAKER_07 (07:59):
So when we say cancel this motherfucker, that's
what we're talking about.
We're talking about that person.
We're not talking about someonewho said, sit your fat ass down.

SPEAKER_05 (08:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (08:09):
We say a lot of things, but when I hear cancel
culture's gone too far fromthree black young folks, it has
gone too far.
It has gone too far, but in whatcontext?
Maybe I'm not maybe I'm notconnected enough.

SPEAKER_06 (08:21):
Because I mean that's what it is because I
think threats come from cancelculture.
It's not where we're just gonnanot listen to your music.
We're not gonna entertain thatwe're gonna stop your money
flow.
No, people's children get talkedabout, people's parents get
talked about, their address ispublic information all of a
sudden.

SPEAKER_07 (08:34):
Can we differentiate that from cancel culture?
Because that's not cancelculture.
That's just psychotic behavior.
No, that's cancel culture.
There's no boundaries in cancelculture.

SPEAKER_08 (08:42):
Cancel culture is what it's a free reign.

SPEAKER_07 (08:44):
Because when I hear whatever.
I hear you, but when I hearcancel culture, all I hear is
this someone says something likewhat we just heard, and I go,
All right, I won't tune intotheir channel, their channel
anymore.
I just won't watch this anymore.

SPEAKER_06 (08:55):
That's where it stops because you're not a
psycho, you're not a part ofcancel culture.
You just have your own opinion,and that's it.

SPEAKER_07 (09:00):
And and maybe I do agree that if they have a
platform, they're on CBS, theyshould not be on that platform
anymore.
They should get off the screen.

SPEAKER_06 (09:06):
That's how everybody should feel.
That's not what happens.
They get on there and theycreate this bandwagon post, and
now there's hashtags.
And so you're still speakinglife over that person because
you're canceling this person,shut down this person.
We've seen plenty of those tags.
Right.
And then it gets crazy becauseyou can only post those hashtags
for so long, and then eventuallyit's okay, we need to take this
a little bit further.

(09:26):
So now we're stalking them.
Now we're posting personalpictures, now we're digging even
further.
So that was the first offensivething they said.
Let's find everything else.
And so now we're gonna make thiscollage.
This person has been horrible.
And it just it just, I'm notsaying that certain people don't
deserve to be canceled.
Actually, more people should becanceled, but not in the way
that it's done.

SPEAKER_08 (09:45):
More people shouldn't even be given the
platform in the first place.

SPEAKER_06 (09:48):
There's too much influence.
That's what the issue is.
Okay, there's no separation.
Everybody is it's just like thesuper rich and then the almost
rich, and then the pretending tobe rich, and then everybody
being for real, and thenstruggling.
Struggling.
But it's it's not it's the it'sblended.
The lines are blurred really,really bad.
And it's just we've given toomuch power to internet warriors.

(10:11):
To the masses, to the masses,yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (10:13):
Yeah, the masses know how to riot.

SPEAKER_06 (10:15):
And I've always it's almost where you're you're
silenced.
You can't really share anopinion, you can't agree to
disagree, you can't do any ofthat because once you have any
bit of influence, you have towalk a very, very fine line, or
cancel culture is gonna eat youup.
And if that's how you survive,if that's how you, you know,
take care of your family, youalmost have to be a robot.
So now you're forced into thatperformance.

SPEAKER_07 (10:34):
Do you though?
Because you don't have to be arobot.
You could say what you need tosay.
It depends on what your platformis.
You don't have to value whatyou're doing.
So here's my thing.
So, for example, right?
Oh, I forgot his last name, BenSomebody.
I think it's Ben Shapiro.
Shapiro, yeah.
Right?
He's got a platform.
We're talking about likeright-wing conservatives right
now.
You have what's what's her face?
Uh Candace?

SPEAKER_02 (10:54):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 (10:55):
Is it Owens?
Owens.
So you got Candace Owens.
They have a platform.
There's one I don't want to, Idon't want to name.

SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (11:00):
And there's plenty of them.
But their platform is for theiraudience.
They're clear about that.
Right.
I might, as a black man, go,damn, Candace, shit.
Really?
Like, you're not getting it forreal.
And I may disagree with her, butthat's her right to say what she
wants to say on her platform.
She got her audience.
It's not for me.
I'm not supposed to be tuningin.

SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (11:19):
But if she's on public television, you know,
maybe on Fox.
Again, even Fox, it's like cableor whatever, but still, you know
what I mean?
Anyone can access it.
It's clear who that's for.

SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah.
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (11:29):
What I'm saying is if they have their own platform
and there's a way for them to goahead and spew whatever they
want on both sides to theiraudience, that's their right.
But if you're making money fromit, say you have a brand, say
you have a particular product,say you partner with Target, I
will not spend money there.
And I'm great at doing that andsticking to it.

(11:51):
But a lot of people were tryingto cancel Target for that
reason.

SPEAKER_06 (11:53):
No, Target gets canceled every year.

SPEAKER_07 (11:55):
I know we're jumping all over the place here, but I
don't need to cancel the store.
Right.
I choose, I don't need toadvertise.
You will not get my dollar.

SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (12:02):
It's that simple.
And that's my choice based onthe fact that as soon as the
administration said you don'thave to do DI anymore, you said,
thank God, and you canceled it.
That means you are only doing itto the Pizza Masses, not because
that was your true core value.
And that bothers me.

SPEAKER_06 (12:17):
Also, I think cancel culture takes it a step further
and it's like, okay, we're notshopping at Target.
All of us.
Got it.
Okay.
So then when you see that oneperson that's running there for
the Starbucks, now it's like,oh, that person, like now it's
cancel culture moves over tothose people.
So instead of being mad at whoyou're mad at, now you're mad at
the people that are not doing ornot canceling the way that you

(12:40):
want them to cancel.
So now it's a problem.
Because I think there was onepoint where it was like, cancel
Sazon, cancel uh Starbucks,cancel there.
There was like a list of placesthat everybody needed to cancel.
And if you saw somebody that wasstill there, it's like, uh-uh,
friend, we're not there anymore.
Uh-uh.
It's like now I'm just, I don'teven know what's going on.
Like, I just hold on a second.
I can't have Sazon either.

(13:00):
Like, are you sure?
That's a main spice.
So I don't know.
It's just, I can't keep up.
I was just there yesterday.
I have a return.
And now I can't go today, oreverybody's gonna cancel me.
So now I'm sneaking around justto live my everyday life, or
cancel culture is gonna get me.
It just doesn't make sense tome.
Like, let that be my decision.
If I want to stop, I stop.

(13:21):
But it's not because I'm tryingto appease the masses.
I don't really care where youwant me to be.

SPEAKER_07 (13:26):
Yeah, I disagree with that a little bit.
In the sense that I can't forceyou to do whatever you want to
do, but I do believe thatthere's power and unity.
Sure.
And I do believe that as apeople, when we make a decision
that our black dollar, 2.3trillion dollars is spent in the
black community, that's morethan a lot of countries' GDPs,
just in the American blackcommunity, we have more power

(13:49):
than we know.
So if we decided as a peoplethat we could do X, Y, and Z
with our dollar, and basicallywhat we decide where the dollar
goes, the policies follow.
So we have more power in thatsense, but we can't unite for
shit.
That's that's different though.

SPEAKER_08 (14:05):
You're thinking of a strong community.

SPEAKER_07 (14:06):
That's different from cancel culture.
See, cancel culture like yousaid, like you said, I don't
know.
I don't know where the lines areblurred.

SPEAKER_06 (14:13):
It's insane.
You're thinking of overnight,it's a whole different like
movement.

SPEAKER_08 (14:17):
It's almost instantaneous.
We're on our way to onecollective mindset.
There will be no free will, freethinking.

SPEAKER_06 (14:24):
The unification is not possible because what we're
supposed to be like ridingbehind changes every three days.
It's just it's all social mediabased.
It's whoever we're told we'resupposed to not and then it
changes because sometimes it'slike, okay, they went ahead and
changed their policies, they putout this public apology, so
we're cool with them now.
So some people are like, ohwell, they said sorry, they they

(14:44):
put you know, they changed thewhole thing.
That's just silly to me.
It's confusing.
It's like I don't evenunderstand.
Are we canceling them or not?

SPEAKER_07 (14:51):
I I said fuck Papa John's a million years ago.

SPEAKER_06 (14:53):
Oh, well.

SPEAKER_07 (14:54):
Because he basically called people the N-word, but
then he was like, Ah, I gotta dosome PR.
Why don't I just get Shaqinvolved?
The biggest nigga.

SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
I just realized there's a Shaqaronie.

SPEAKER_07 (15:10):
Now he's part owner of whatever, and we're cool with
Papa Johnson.
I don't I didn't forget.
So, no, unless literally I'mdying and that's all there is to
eat, and I don't have any way ofgetting food for the next five
days.
Sure, but if I can survive it,if that's all there is, I'm not
touching it.
And that's my decision to notspend money there.

(15:30):
Right.
I make that decision.
I'll eat worse pizza before Itouch that shit simply because I
know that he only did it as a PRbecause it affected and impacted
his business, not because he'struly sorry or because he means
it.

SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (15:41):
So once you're you cross that line for me, it's not
that I can't forgive, but Idefinitely go, this person
hasn't learned anything.
Their money's impacted.
And this is what I think aboutall businesses.
Once you impact them, they'republicly traded.
When someone like, I don't knowwhat his name is, Mr.
Papa Johns, when he sits thereon the board and he has meetings
and the entire board is lookingat him saying, Why are the

(16:04):
stocks going down?
He has to give that explanation.
I like to know that my communityhas something to do with the
fact that the stocks keepplummeting because he doesn't
respect that community.
Simple as that.
We don't have to threaten hisfamily, we don't have to find
out where he lives, no one givesa shit.

SPEAKER_06 (16:17):
Just stop his money.

SPEAKER_07 (16:18):
Stop his money and leave it there.
And I'm not even stopping.
Because that is affecting him.
I'm not even saying weshouldn't, other people
shouldn't do it.
I'm saying he doesn't want itfrom us.
Right.
Right?
No different than how I go intoa black community, and I've seen
this happen.
You go into in the blackcommunity, you go into a hair
salon and to a um one of thosehair stores, right, where you
buy all the braids andeverything else.
They're owned by Asian folks.

(16:39):
Yep.
And then you get mistreated whenyou go in there.
Yes, you do.
They treat you like shit, andyou still fucking go.
What are you doing?
Why you why do you go in there?
Why?
Because what happens is Blackgirl decided she was gonna sell
hair products.
So she's selling it, but youwon't buy it from her because
she's who does she think she is?
No, exactly.
The problem is you think she'staxing, she doesn't have a

(17:00):
choice.
Right.
Right?
These folks can get it for a lotcheaper because of who they are
and their connections.
But if you stop their money,they won't have a choice because
now she could now Home Girlcould charge a lot less because
now they would realize if wecould only support each other
for a month.

SPEAKER_05 (17:18):
Just a month.

SPEAKER_07 (17:18):
Just a month to say we're not shopping here, we're
gonna shop there.

SPEAKER_05 (17:21):
Yep.

SPEAKER_07 (17:21):
And that's the thing.
We don't have that unificationin a way where I think that we
can make an impact.
And I think that's what I shouldfocus on.
I totally, totally digressed.
This the entire conversation iscancel culture, but my whole
point is you know, the way Ilook at it is not the way you're
describing it to be right now.
You're describing somethingpersonal and psychotic to me.

SPEAKER_06 (17:40):
No, but it is.
That's what I'm trying to tellyou.
Yeah, you need to really look atthe comments on videos, don't
just giggle and swipe.
You have to actually look atwhat people are saying.
It's crazy.
You'll see the comments and belike, yo, look at the comments
that you comment.
Ever say this in real life?

SPEAKER_07 (17:54):
Yeah, people go into people.

SPEAKER_06 (17:55):
Or I mean going at it, and then they'll go and
they'll post like each other'spictures, like, this is your
family, you don't have the roomto talk.
And then kids get a voice.
So now there's these angry, rude11, 12-year-olds that are
arguing with grown women, andit's crazy.

SPEAKER_07 (18:09):
What I'm referring to is holding companies and
people accountable.

SPEAKER_06 (18:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (18:13):
That's not how our generation sees it.

SPEAKER_08 (18:14):
That's not how we treat casual culture.
It's what it should be, but it'snot how we use it.
We misuse it.
You give the masses power,they're gonna misuse it.

SPEAKER_05 (18:21):
We misuse everything.

SPEAKER_08 (18:22):
100%.
I guess that's the paradox ofthings.

SPEAKER_05 (18:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (18:25):
Can't really give the masses power, but then if
you leave the power in theselect few, the result probably
will still be the same.

SPEAKER_07 (18:32):
So tell me about this um collective mind, this
borg-like mind that you startedspeaking about.
You said it's heading in thatdirection.
Why do you say that?

SPEAKER_08 (18:41):
It just seems like everybody's supposed to think
the same thing or agree with thesame things.
Everybody has to share theiropinion.
You have to believe what Ibelieve.
You have to.
There's no other right choice.
There's nothing else you canbelieve in.
It has to be this, or you'rewrong.

SPEAKER_06 (18:56):
I'll stop being your friend or family, everything.

SPEAKER_08 (18:59):
People start getting vicious, like start turning into
animals.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (19:03):
I think it's so powerful.
There's such growth indisagreeing with people and
being able to have a civildiscourse.
And when I disagree, I disagree.

SPEAKER_08 (19:11):
There will be no more learning.
There will be no more learning.

SPEAKER_06 (19:13):
I respect your opinion, and I love the fact
that you were able to articulateit to me, but unfortunately, I
still disagree with you.

SPEAKER_07 (19:18):
And here's why.

SPEAKER_06 (19:19):
And here's why.

SPEAKER_07 (19:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (19:20):
And that and I respect the fact that you
allowed me to share myperspective.

SPEAKER_07 (19:23):
And here's the best part we are both capable of
changing our minds based on newevidence.
But that's scientific.
That's not everyone.
Let me ask you guys a question.
Seems like what bothers medoesn't bother you as much, and
maybe vice versa.
Maybe because it's just the agedifference.
But you alluded to this younglady earlier who said the
N-word.

(19:44):
Everything you said up to thatpoint, I agree with.
Until you said, but your bestfriend probably said it 10
minutes ago.
So you're saying, are yousaying, I'm not gonna say you're
saying, I'm not gonna put wordsin your mouth.
So the question is, are you thensaying that if we use it, they
can use it?

SPEAKER_08 (19:58):
No.
Well, I'm not gonna go as far asto say that.
People obviously, like I said,have different views on it.
But what I was implying isyou're being hypocritical.
In what sense?
You're saying you're probablysaying it yourself.
Yeah.
Your best friend's saying it,you're not checking your best
friend, but you're going as faras to go online and send death
threats to somebody with aplatform and who has all these

(20:20):
things that you want but youwon't have, because all this
malice and malintent in yourheart, you'll never get it.
But regardless.
Yeah, you just got D brain.
You'll never get it.
But you're over here attackingthis person and trying to ruin
their life.
So what I was getting at is justhypocritical because you're
you're not shaming the personwho has nothing.
You're not shaming the peoplewho are probably around you in

(20:41):
your circle where you hear itevery day, but you want to go
attack somebody who hassomething, who has something to
lose.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (20:47):
I think you're okay.
So I see what you're saying.
You're you're looking at it likethey're attacking this person
because they have something.
What if I heard that and mywhole thing was, hey, we
shouldn't listen to this personanymore.
Would you call me a hypocritebecause I use the word?

SPEAKER_08 (20:59):
No.

SPEAKER_07 (21:00):
Okay.
So the only thing that you'rebasically having you take issue
with is the fact that they'vegone too far with the way they
went about it.

SPEAKER_08 (21:08):
Yeah, I'm just saying, like, if yeah, that too.
And um it's just if if you'regonna treat someone like that
because of how they if they'reusing the word, then you have to
stand on that everywhere else.
Let's do it.
I do stand on it everywhere elsewithin my community.

SPEAKER_07 (21:22):
Not you, right?
No, no, no, I know what youmean.
I know what you mean.
I'm not taking it personally,I'm saying like overall, right?
Because I use the word, right?
But even my boys use the words.

SPEAKER_06 (21:28):
That's what you're boys, but that's what I'm
saying.
If you were golfing and yourwhite boy was like, you just
threw nigga out of just out ofnowhere, would you just be like
he can't?
Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 (21:38):
I don't have a single white boy that would that
would do that.

SPEAKER_06 (21:40):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 (21:40):
And I have plenty of white friends who are close to
me.

SPEAKER_06 (21:42):
So if you were to see that online and it were to
send some sort of rage into you,it's because it would do the
same thing in person.
That's who you are, period.
You're not on that, you're notjust trying to join a bandwagon
rage group in the commentsection because you want to be
seen for 15 minutes and be apart of the masses.
That is your that's your realperspective, that's your real
opinion, and you're standingbehind it in public in your

(22:04):
community, and you in just oneperson, you in a group, you in a
class, you doing a lecture.
That's how you feel, and that'sjust what you're standing on.
These people will pretend likeeverything is cool in real life,
but then they'll get online andbully people.
And it's like, don't be ahypocrite.
Because they want the support,you know, be yourself.

SPEAKER_08 (22:23):
The comments flooding in, all the people
agreeing.
That's a good feeling for them.
It's like, yeah, you know, Igotta communicate.

SPEAKER_06 (22:28):
I got 1200 likes on my comment because I said she
can't say it.

SPEAKER_08 (22:33):
I ruined her life.
I threatened her littlethree-year-old.

SPEAKER_06 (22:35):
Now I'm pinned.
I'm at the top.

SPEAKER_08 (22:37):
I'm at the top.
So we get paid for thesecomments?
No.

SPEAKER_06 (22:39):
No, that's the thing.
The hell's the point?
Everybody's just being annoyingfor free.

SPEAKER_08 (22:43):
Attention.
You're not getting none of it.
Teaching hate, man.
You're not famous.
But that the moment you put thatcomment in there, yeah, you've
gotten the recognition.

SPEAKER_07 (22:51):
I guess my only issue to where, again, I'm not
gonna go as far as sayinganybody else needs to cancel
this person, but if you're notblack and you throw the well,
even if you are black, if you'reblack and your ass is like
belongs to them, and I saybelongs to them.
You're not with them, you belongto them.
Plenty of these people, youknow, you see them all the time.
You can't be throwing that wordaround, man.

(23:12):
You can't say it because itbothers me.
I'll give you an example.
I went to play soccer with youguys the other day, right?
You know, what was it?
How was it, two weeks ago, threeweeks ago?
I got hurt.
Yeah, I was.
Tell them how you got hurt.
Never mind, never mind.
No, I I can share it.
I mean, I'll tell her, it's notgonna make the show.
But I was warming up.
I didn't I didn't play a singlesecond.
I was warming up and I kickedthe ball and I pulled it.
I pulled a quad muscle on myright, and I was like, Yeah,

(23:33):
it's fine.
I'm a lefty anyway.
So I sat up to my left and Ipulled a left one.
I was like, okay, I'm gonna sitdown.

SPEAKER_06 (23:38):
You're joking.
You just watched.

SPEAKER_07 (23:40):
I just sat for two hours and watched him play.
It was crazy.
Here's what I'm saying the wholetime you guys were playing,
there were about like 10Hispanic kids right next to me,
waiting their turn to play.
And they went out of their way.
Not because I was there, that'sjust how they talk among
themselves.
I know that.
They were mostly high schoolage, I'm gonna say 18 to 20,

(24:01):
somewhere in that, in that, youknow, a little older than high
school, but right not quiteolder than 20.
And when I tell you, if youlooked away, you think it's a
whole bunch of black kidstalking.
Yeah, everything we have, theyembrace, they take our culture,
they adopt.
But when they go home, they cantalk like that.
In their community, they cantalk like that.
It has been my experience thatHispanics, a lot of them, once

(24:23):
they get around white folks,they lean on that a whole lot
more, especially in thecorporate world.

SPEAKER_03 (24:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (24:28):
And then you get treated very differently by
them.
But then you're over here theentire time.
And I tell you, my blood wasboiled.
I was trying that, I was like,oh, that's just how kids are
these days.
But it was bugging me becauseevery other word was nigga.
They use it more than I do.
Right.
It was like, man, that niggathis, I think it is, I nigga,
nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, thennigga, nigga.
Nigga, I was like, God damn,y'all.
Where can you go and talk likethat?

(24:49):
You talk like that amongyourselves, unless your your
parents don't speak any English.
You don't talk like that infront of them.

SPEAKER_06 (24:56):
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (24:56):
And if you do, that's because they don't speak
English, but you can throw itaround as if it's nothing, as
it's just another word, youknow, colloquialism that we are
just spewing.
I can't tell you what to do.
See, I can't govern that.
I can't tell you what words tosay, what words not to say.
But I think if they're gonna useit and they use it with hate,
that's fine, that's theiropinion, is their feeling, but

(25:16):
don't say it around me as if weare cool like that, like we're
playing like that.
Because when you want to turnthat against me, you can and you
will.
You're gonna say something.

SPEAKER_08 (25:25):
Yeah, I was just gonna say that I I agree with
most of what you're saying, butthere's one part that I I don't
want to say I disagree with, butI just want to speak about.
I think part of the fact that itis so used among pretty much
everybody is partially ourfault.
Because we use it so much inmusic and things like that?
That too, yes, especially, butit's become also like a term of

(25:48):
uh it just it's like friendship,I guess.
It's just a term for everything.
The word is used for pretty mucheverything now.
It doesn't have the same meaningit used to have.
No, it has exact same meaning.

SPEAKER_07 (25:57):
It's like initially unless you use it that way.
Yeah, so it has to do with who'ssaying it.
So I'll give you an I'll giveyou some too many examples to
give you, but I'll give you one.
The word has exact same meaning,it's even more impactful and
more powerful today.
We've tried, we've attempted bytaking it back, and it's taking
the power away from it.
Right?
It's no different than if mywife was sitting there having a

(26:19):
conversation with her girls, andthere's an author that I follow
that, oh man, I forgot his name.
Um, but he was having thisconversation, and he's basically
said, so I won't steal thecredit.
He basically said, Look, if hishis wife is having a
conversation with her own girls,and they're all sitting around,
they're like, bitch, that's atno point in time do I want to
enter this room and go, heybitch, you know where my

(26:39):
slippers are?
Right?
That's not something he saidhe's he said.
That's not something he'sinterested in.
So here's the thing I love whenhe said this.
He goes, Not only can I not dothat, but I don't want to.
And that's the thing.
There should be enough awarenessfrom someone who isn't black to
understand the pain of blackpeople and what they've dealt

(27:01):
with, to say, I'm not going touse that word even when I'm
allowed to.
Some people do that for thatway.
A lot of good people feel thatway.
But it takes a certain person tosay, it doesn't matter if they
use it in song.
I understand why.
See, here's the thing.
You have to be aware enough tobe to say as a person and go,
yeah, they're gonna say it toeach other as if they were
saying the word brother.
They're gonna use that, but it'sto take that power away.

(27:22):
At no point in time does it hurtless if I say it.
We can use the words, we try todisempower the word, but it
doesn't hurt any less when awhite man yells it.
They know that if there's onething they can do, they can hurt
you with that word.

SPEAKER_08 (27:37):
But the thing is, maybe this is just me
personally, but I've been justso desensitized to the word that
it it doesn't hold any power inme over me.

SPEAKER_07 (27:44):
Like if have you been called that by a white
person?

SPEAKER_08 (27:47):
I've been called a monkey.
Damn, Kiki.
Yes.

SPEAKER_07 (27:50):
Where?

SPEAKER_08 (27:52):
I've been in some but not by a white person, by a
Hispanic person.

SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
What?

SPEAKER_08 (27:56):
But I've been I've been called Like I've had my
experience.
Like even when you talk about uhbeing a black person in society
and having certain experiences,like I got pulled over once and
I had three cop cars and a spiketrap because there was me and
two other black kids in the car.
Spike trap?
A spike trap.
Bro, I turned my car off, Irolled down the windows, I said,
Y'all, y'all got it, man.

(28:16):
I ain't going nowhere.
Don't please don't take this astep further.
I see three of y'all, I'm good.
But yeah, it's just like I feellike the word doesn't have as
much power because like you hearit literally everywhere.
It means bro.
It means it means uh what?
It literally is a word use useduniversally for pretty much
everything now.
It's become a part of thisentire generation's vocabulary.

SPEAKER_07 (28:39):
Mine too.
Like there'll be shit that I'llbe talking with my wife and
we'll say something else orsomething shocking.
She'd be like, nigga.
It just means like what thefuck?
You know what I mean?
Like, you're right.
It means so many differentthings based on the way you say
it.
The but that's us talking.
We've again used it for thatreason and in so many different
contexts.

(29:00):
But make no mistake that if shegoes back to a corporate world
and she's at work, maybe theydon't say gonna say it to her
face, but if she knows it'sbeing said about her, it's a big
deal.

SPEAKER_08 (29:08):
Okay, but but let me ask you this if we knew that
word was used with no hatred andit was just collectively used
among everybody, and everybodywas just like, nigga, nigga,
what's up, nigga?
What's up, my nigga?
Would you feel any type of wayabout that?
Or would you feel like yourculture is being respected?

SPEAKER_07 (29:22):
That's a great question.
So let me answer it that way.
The second you no longer holdpower over me, the second you
can no longer red line myneighborhoods, the second your
systematic racism is destroyed,the second you are not the
majority and you have no impact.
If you shoot or arrest my blackson, that justice will be served
and you will not walk away andpeople will not raise a GoFundMe

(29:44):
and give your family ten milliondollars.
Yes, you can use it.

SPEAKER_08 (29:47):
So then that that sounds like it's only a select
few that you care about, then.
What do you mean like in termsof uh select few races?

SPEAKER_07 (29:55):
No, what I'm saying is it wouldn't matter.
Say that you know, it's the yeartwenty you know, twenty four.
400.
Because I really do think we arehundreds of years away.
You think we're hundreds ofyears away?

SPEAKER_08 (30:06):
Meaning you think we will get there?

SPEAKER_07 (30:08):
I think we'll get there, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (30:09):
You have a lot of hope.

SPEAKER_07 (30:10):
I do believe that it is human nature to always find a
way that is totally accidentalto feel superior to someone
else.
Right?
So whether it's classism,colorism, and if we were all the
same way.
Well, but you have to besentient to feel that you are
better than someone justbecause.

(30:31):
You know, if I'm a lion, I wantto kill something smaller, yeah,
but because it's a threat orwhatever, or because I feel like
I need to be the only oneleading the pride.
But as a person, we get todecide that I'm better than this
these people because they'rePalestinians.
I am from Israel.
I'm better than these peoplebecause I am German, they're

(30:54):
Polish.
I'm better than these peoplebecause I'm Dominican, they're
Haitian.
So that's something that we getto decide without you having met
this person, without you havingto interact with this person,
without you dealing with thisperson whatsoever.
So I think that as humans, asany kind of sentient being, if
we were all the same color, thesame everything, but people

(31:16):
differed in height.

SPEAKER_08 (31:17):
It'd still be a way.

SPEAKER_07 (31:18):
You'd be like, well, the tall people are better,
unless the majority was short.
Then it'd be like, well, it'sbetter to be short.
And then they would find a way.
Yeah.
Can you imagine?
We would always find a reason totry to be better.
And there's an old book calledAnimal Farm where that's
illustrated.
There's another book called Lordof the Flies.
I think I read that.

(31:39):
Right?
And that is another thing thatshows you at society how
quickly, first of all, it can gointo dystopia.
And secondly, it shows you howthere's always going to be
someone trying to be better thanthe next person simply by
sometimes because they'restronger, or whatever it may be.
There will always be some typeof being superior, type of
complex, or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_08 (32:00):
Classism, I'm just looking for the word.

SPEAKER_07 (32:03):
I think right now it's even worse because they are
clawing at straws.
It's like they are trappedanimals and they know they're
dying off.
That's why they're becoming evenmore aggressive.
But every culture has certainthings that serves their own
community.
For example, you could go into Imean anybody could patronize
their stores, but if you go toBrooklyn, you'll find like
certain Jewish stores, and 99%of people who go there are

(32:27):
Jewish.
And if I walk in, some headswill turn.
What the fuck you want?
Right?
Legally, they can't stop me fromwalking into the store and
whatever, but I just not, I justknow not to go there because
they serve their community.
Right now, if it's a the serviceindustry, they serve each other,
and that's all they do.
There is a particular attack onthe black community if we try to
do the exact same thing.

(32:48):
If you have anything that'sblack-owned for black people,
they're coming after you thesecond you start making noise.
Yeah, it's like why why onlyblack people?
So it's reverse racism.
You're being sued by people inthe government coming after you
to destroy your business.
You can't even say, I want toelevate my people by doing
something just for them becauseI want to elevate my people.
You can't even do that rightnow.

SPEAKER_06 (33:08):
Can I speak to the other side of that?

SPEAKER_07 (33:09):
Always could.

SPEAKER_06 (33:10):
Because I also feel like black-owned businesses,
again, Grace is just like a it'sa thought that nobody even, it's
just it's not in anybody's brainanymore.
And it's so you can tell becausethey make one mistake.
I mean, one mistake.
It's like this is wild, shopperblack.
Exactly.
Like, what is your yum?

SPEAKER_07 (33:28):
Exactly.
How many times have McDonald'sfucked up?

SPEAKER_06 (33:30):
I mean, and every time you're still there,
faithfully with your$2 combo,just wrapping around, irritated.
They done forgot your food andeverything.
You still going to do that.

SPEAKER_08 (33:37):
What's the same about Wendy's last time?
I always forgave my damn sauces,man.
And you're right back there,sauceless.

SPEAKER_06 (33:43):
But that's what I'm saying.
You go to a food truck and it'sthis guy, and he charges$20 for
a plate and he messed up, he putthe wrong sauce.
You're never going back.
And you're gonna drag him andcancel that whole food truck so
nobody else goes there.
Back to cancel culture.
It's wild.
That's what I'm saying.
People are becoming bullies.
Like it's not you don't actuallycare about what you're talking
about, you're just a bully.
And it's probably because youwere bullied, so now you get to

(34:05):
hide behind the internet andbully a bunch of a bunch of
people that you would neverspeak to that way in real life.

SPEAKER_07 (34:12):
As far as the way you guys are describing it, like
I said, now I'm now I have amuch better grasp of what that
is.
It's a serious epidemic.
It sounds like it's a seriousproblem.
That's not what I was thinkingit was.
Because I was ready for allthree of you.
I was like, what you mean?
We were ready for you.

SPEAKER_06 (34:26):
We prepped.

SPEAKER_07 (34:27):
I was like, what you mean the problem with cancel
culture?
We should cancel the asses.
You know, Joe Rogan's not gonnaget on a podcast and start
saying nigga this, nigga this,nigga, and then I'm still over
here like supporting him.
No, why?
I don't know for sure.
But I see, but that's the thing.
I'm not even saying cancel him.
I will choose not to listen.
That's it.
That's that's what it is.
And I will choose that ifthere's a product that he

(34:47):
endorses, I will choose not topurchase that product.
There are several products thathe endorses, obviously, because
he's the largest podcast in theworld, right?
And that's just the thing.
But at the same token, I'm justlike, because they chose him as
their endorser, I'm not gonnabuy the product.

SPEAKER_02 (35:00):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 (35:00):
I'm not buying that product because I'm like, you
don't have the sense or the thewherewithal to say, I'm that's
not the guy I want to representmy product.
All they know is, oh, he's got10 million followers or 20
million followers, whatever itis.
He should be the guy.
And that I think that that'swhat's lost.
Yeah.
Should we cancel cancel culture?
Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (35:22):
Go back to people just unifying and going, you
know what, that's lame.
We're just not even gonnaentertain it.
We're just gonna turn our backsto it.
Yeah, not like becomingdetectives and little bullies
online.

SPEAKER_08 (35:34):
It almost seemed like people were coming together
for that whole Jeffrey Epsteinthing, but that lasted maybe
about two weeks.
Yeah, and then literally nobodygives the shit anymore.

SPEAKER_05 (35:42):
And then what is going on?

SPEAKER_08 (35:44):
You know what?
I was gonna say I don't know ifthis is true because I didn't
confirm it, but apparently theyhad released something about the
files the day Charlie Kirk died.

SPEAKER_05 (35:53):
Hmm.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_08 (35:54):
Oh, that's another podcast episode.

SPEAKER_05 (35:56):
Let's let that let's let that ride.

SPEAKER_08 (35:58):
Actually, recently too, I had I know someone who
experienced like the sideeffects of cancel culture.
She runs her own business onsocial media and she posted, you
know, uh rest in peace andprayers to Charlie Kirk's
family.
Bro, she lost more than like ahundred followers just because
of that.

SPEAKER_05 (36:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (36:16):
I would too.
And I'll I'll tell you why.
Because I know what that man wasabout.
For sending prayers to herfamily for his family, though.
Here's what's different abouthim and Hitler.
The fact that they live atdifferent times, different
personalities, and so on, butthey believe the same thing.
So if you are taken off the faceof this world, I'm not saying
anything about it, I'm leavingyou alone.

(36:37):
That's not my problem.
But if someone doesn'tunderstand how that person
created more harm to us as asociety than good.
And you are an influencer or youhave a product that you want,
because when you when you dothat, to me, there's empathy and
there's sympathy.
You can sympathize.
I sympathize with a family,right?
Whether it was a put on, whereit was set up, whatever it may

(36:59):
have been, I I have no opinionabout it.
But that was a horrible thingfor anyone to witness.

SPEAKER_06 (37:04):
He was shot dead in front of his kids.

SPEAKER_07 (37:06):
That's a horrible thing for anyone to witness.
Right.
Right?
That's what I'm saying.
Correct.
But I'm not, I have a following.
If I'm selling products, or evenif I'm not selling anything, on
my personal site, I'm not like,hey, prayers.

SPEAKER_06 (37:19):
Don't ever share your opinion again.

SPEAKER_07 (37:21):
No condolences.
Yeah.
Well, it depends.
Of course it depends.
Because if you no, here's whatI'm saying.
You can, but you have to beprepared to understand that
people will associate you with aperson.
Right.
You then agree and believe inwhat this person represented.
That's not true.
And that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_06 (37:36):
That's cancel culture mentality.
No, it is not.
You're not saying I lovedeverything this person stood
for, such a big supporter.
It's just that this man was infront of a large crowd of
people, a lot of which werestudents.
His family was present and hewas murdered.
So condolences to the peoplethat were affected by that,
praying for them in all of theirmourning.

(37:57):
It has nothing to do with Iagree with that.

SPEAKER_07 (37:59):
Question, question, question.
Did Jeffrey Epstein have kids?
Did he?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 (38:03):
I don't know.

unknown (38:04):
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (38:05):
Depending on where he is.

SPEAKER_07 (38:06):
He's he hung himself in jail.

SPEAKER_06 (38:08):
Okay.

SPEAKER_07 (38:08):
So they say.

SPEAKER_06 (38:09):
He wasn't.

SPEAKER_07 (38:10):
Sure.
Exactly.
Good point.
Um, did your homegirl sendprayers to Jeffrey Epstein's
family?

SPEAKER_06 (38:15):
No.

SPEAKER_07 (38:15):
Why not?
She didn't agree with the pieceof shit that he was.
No.

SPEAKER_06 (38:21):
But but it's they didn't die the same way.
I feel like what it is is like abig thing.
So I think that that was crazy.
It was crazy.
I think what it was is the factthat the family was present.
That's all that it is.
He hung himself in jail.
Quote unquote.

SPEAKER_08 (38:37):
Public execution.

SPEAKER_06 (38:38):
Exactly.
That's excessive.

SPEAKER_07 (38:39):
That's taking it back to the old days.
And I can take it back, I cankeep going.
Did the good old white people inthe 60s send prayers to Malcolm
X when he was shot in front ofhis wife and kids?
No.
Why not?
Other white people did not.
Because it disagreed with whathe stood for.
But does that make it okay?
No, it doesn't.
No, what I'm saying, what I'msaying is this.
If you're going to say thoughtsand prayers, first of all, which

(39:02):
is a bunch of bullshit, becauseyou're not actually thoughting
and praying anything, becausethat's not it.
That's not how that works.
But what you're saying is, I'mgoing to go a little deeper with
you, right?
If something happens with yourfamily, I'm picking up the phone
and I'm calling the family, ifI'm close to the family, and I'm
expressing every way that I cansupport.
If I don't know the family, butit impacted me deeply, then I'm

(39:25):
personally going to get in myknees in my room alone.
I'm going to shut the fuck upabout it and I'm going to say
the prayers I need to say.
When I type thoughts andprayers, I am not really sending
prayers and thoughts.
That's not a real thing.
That's not how prayers are sent.
What I'm saying to the world isI'm making a very clear
statement that I support thisperson in this kind of way, or

(39:48):
I'm saying, hey, world, look atme.
I have an opinion about this.

SPEAKER_08 (39:51):
Yeah, that's just how we as a generation do
things.
That's what we're used to.
You're thinking of it in adifferent mind, Cissy.

SPEAKER_06 (39:58):
You're not even said you're not thoughting and
praying.
Literally, in our that's how wesay, I'm sorry for your loss.
Yeah.
Thoughts and prayers for you andyour family.
My condolences, praying for you.
I see old people.

SPEAKER_07 (40:07):
Even if you never do, I see people my age doing
it.
Like I, you know, we're onFacebook, old people platform,
right?
You know, I I I'm we're on that.
So and I see it.
The original.
The original, right?
It's actually not the original,you know.
MySpace.
My Space, yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Black Planet.
Yeah, what is going on?
Yeah, we're gonna call it BlackPlanet.
But listen, exactly.
But if I get on the internet andI go thoughts and prayers with

(40:30):
this family, I'm basicallycalling attention to myself to
say, I need y'all to understandthat I see me.
Y'all see me feeling bad forthis person.
Gotta be seen me.
Exactly.
Y'all see me feeling bad forthis person.
So now it goes a step furtherbecause then people are going,
so did you agree with thismotherfucker?

SPEAKER_06 (40:45):
And that's the thing.
I don't think she was evertrying to say she agreed with
anything.
I think all she was trying toshow is that she was
sympathetic.

SPEAKER_08 (40:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (40:51):
But that's the thing, is but you have to show
that.
I feel horrible for thosechildren.
I am mortified for what they hadto witness because they are
children.

SPEAKER_03 (40:59):
Correct.

SPEAKER_06 (41:00):
And the innocence in that, they they they're
traumatized for the rest oftheir lives.

SPEAKER_07 (41:03):
I don't care what we think about believed in what you
think about the villains that wejust created.

SPEAKER_06 (41:07):
Exactly.
There are innocence in thosebabies, and that was robbed from
them.
And that's the only thing that Ifeel.
But I didn't go a step furtherand go online and go, those
poor, poor babies.
I just prayed over themprivately.
I cried to my friends about itbecause I'm like, I cannot
imagine sitting there and thenthinking about running to my
father, and he was just shot inthe neck and I watched him die.

(41:29):
And I'm a toddler.

SPEAKER_01 (41:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (41:31):
That's mortifying.
But I would share that amongstmy peer group.
I wouldn't go as far as going,just just think about the
babies.
Just come on.

SPEAKER_07 (41:39):
Again, the second again, the thing is it's a
second you go public, you haveto be ready for the
repercussions.
And repercussions are someone'sgoing to believe wrongly or
rightly, not that you haveempathy, but that you agree or
to some degree sympathize withhis sentiments.
Yeah, everyone's nature is toassume.
Good point.

SPEAKER_06 (41:56):
Man.

SPEAKER_07 (41:57):
So yeah, so she kind of learned her lesson.

SPEAKER_08 (41:59):
Yeah, she learned her lesson for sure.

SPEAKER_06 (42:01):
One thing about cancel culture is like it's
quick memories.
And then there's something elseto cancel, and then all of a
sudden everybody's back on yourwave.

SPEAKER_07 (42:09):
But there's there's a lesson there.
Again, it depends on you know,you have to understand that if
you're going to go on socialmedia and make statements that
people are going to, those arepublic statements.

SPEAKER_08 (42:18):
And you also have to be careful when you mess up with
politics.

SPEAKER_07 (42:22):
Yeah, unless you're totally okay with having a very
polarized audience.
And if you have, you know, likeI only serve these people, it
doesn't matter what these otherguys think, then you need to
double down on these opinions.
Yeah, you can't do that ifyou're black.
Well, again, it depends on whatyou're doing, right?
If you have a company and it'slike you only serve the black
community, it ain't gonna work.

SPEAKER_08 (42:42):
What do you mean?
Like making that happen, likeyou said earlier, having black
owned businesses and thatalready being attacked.
Yeah, they are being attacked.
It's getting attacked from thegovernment, the people above,
and it's getting attacked fromthe people.
So you got no chance from yourown people.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (42:57):
Yeah, I'm gonna change that though.
Working working on somethingthat will go ahead and change
that for all of us.

SPEAKER_06 (43:02):
Great.
There we go.
We like somebody with anopinion, but a plan.
I go, I got a plan.
Not just an opinion and thenanother opinion to follow.

SPEAKER_05 (43:10):
Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 (43:11):
Okay, Dad, how do you see accountability now
compared to when you wereyounger?
Where people being canceledwhile you were growing up.

SPEAKER_07 (43:19):
Yeah.
That um nappy headed hoes,nigga.
See how you just threw it inthere?
Um People were being heldaccountable a lot less.

SPEAKER_02 (43:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (43:30):
For sure.

SPEAKER_02 (43:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (43:31):
Um, they were things I didn't get away with.
There was, I saw this reel theother day where this man was
interviewing Eddie Murphy, andjust you guess you can YouTube
it.
This is after Eddie Murphy's astar and everything else.
And he goes, Have you read MarkTwain?
And Eddie goes, No, not a lick,not a word.
He goes, hmm.
You should read it because you'dhave a lot in common.
And you can tell that he was alittle condescending because

(43:54):
when Eddie was just like, No, Ihaven't read Mark Twain.
He goes, You'd have a lot incommon, you know.
How do you respond or how do youfeel when he says the word
nigga?
He said it just like that to hisface on that on national
television.
And Eddie was like, Oh, whatwhere did that come from?
Like, what the hell?
Because in one of Mark Twain'sstories, he writes about a guy,

(44:14):
there's a character named NiggerJim.
And um Jesus.
So do you see how far back youwent to pull that out of a
fucking book to say, hey, look,I'd like to say this to a black
man's face on TV.

SPEAKER_05 (44:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (44:29):
He wasn't canceled, he was fine.

SPEAKER_05 (44:31):
Of course.

SPEAKER_07 (44:32):
Right?
Now we're looking at it going,wait a what?
So we see it all the time.
There's accountability that justwasn't there.

SPEAKER_06 (44:38):
We're canceling people from your generation.

SPEAKER_07 (44:39):
Yeah.
So exactly.
We're going back.
We're going back.
We're gonna cancel peopleretroactively cancel people,
right?
I mean, that's what happened toBill.
And and those people deserve tobe held accountable.
They deserve what everythingthey're getting and more.
For sure.
But probably more.
Yeah.
Four years.
Four years for John Diddy.
Exactly.
But my my you know, but yes,people were held accountable,
but not nearly enough.

(45:00):
They can get away with it morebecause there was no social
media.
Now something happens, you knowabout it, the whole world knows
about it, it goes viral.
Before that, it's like, who'sgonna tell me?
If I didn't watch the news, if Ididn't watch the show, I don't
watch the show.
You know, it's like it's justyou don't know.
Yeah, it lived in its own littlesphere in its own little bubble,
and it wasn't that big a deal.

SPEAKER_06 (45:18):
Do you think Gen Z is too sensitive or just more
aware?

SPEAKER_01 (45:23):
I think we're incredibly sensitive.
Insanely sensitive.
On Instagram, they had they dothis thing on your for you page
where they'll suggest a post foryou to look at.
If someone you don't evenfollow, it just pop up on your
feed.
And I go into the he'll they'llsay something crazy.
Like they'll be talking abouttransgenders where going from
one gender to another, and thecomments will be flooded with

(45:46):
transgenders losing their minds.
And it's like it's a joke.
And I get it, it could offendyou, but at the same time,
they're like livid in thatconversation, but that's popping
up on my feed because it's theythink that's something that I
would relate to.
So I see a lot of likesensitive, and it's from a video
that'll be like months old.

(46:07):
So no one would really bat aneye, but since a lot of people
are like this one person sees itand they feel some type of way,
now other people are like, Oh, Ifall in that same category too.
I should say something because Ifeel I'm in that same boat too.
I'm also a transgender and thatthat's not right, apparently.
Victimizing yourself.

SPEAKER_08 (46:24):
So but um what do you mean by the what was a
second?
Where'd you say sensitive orjust aware?
Aware, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (46:33):
Like, do you think we're just so woke?
Or do you think that we're justyou know, funny enough, I'd
actually super sensitive.

SPEAKER_08 (46:39):
We're we're sensitive about a lot of things.
We can be very nitpicky, butweirdly enough, I think we've
been desensitized to a lot ofthings.
I think we're actually overlydesensitized to things like that
whole the fact like the CharlieKirk thing, watching a man die
publicly like that, and thenpeople are chanting the name and
laughing about it.

SPEAKER_05 (46:59):
It's like, oh my god, you guys are sick.

SPEAKER_08 (47:01):
That's a good point, yeah.
Like our our generation has beendesensitized to a lot of pretty
awful and lost all boundaries,all boundaries.

SPEAKER_06 (47:10):
Nobody has any boundaries.

SPEAKER_08 (47:11):
No.

SPEAKER_06 (47:12):
You talk about everything, you're in
everybody's business, you're ineverybody's space, no parish.
You're throwing threats out likeit's nothing to threaten
somebody's life, no respect, norespect, no humility, no grace.

SPEAKER_07 (47:23):
That's a very interesting take.
You like the whole I didn't seeit that way, but you're right.
It's it's the opposite beingdesensitized to things.
I mean, I could see it becauseagain, everything's a joke,
everything's just something wecan just like accept and move on
as if nothing big happened, butthat was that was that's life,
and that was done in a yeah, buteven you could even take it a
step further and say the otherthings that we're desensitized
to, like um I hate talking aboutthings like but just sexual

(47:47):
immorality, it's gotten worse.

SPEAKER_08 (47:50):
We're just so desensitized to the things that
should not be normal.

SPEAKER_06 (47:53):
And what's around children?
I think people are not childrenare now included in every single
movement.
And it's like, when did we startrobbing kids of their childhood?
You were a child for such asmall amount of time and you
have, God willing, so much adulttime.
Let them be kids.
They don't care how you feel orwhat you wake up as or who

(48:13):
you're intimate with in yourprivate life.
That is not a child's business,and it doesn't need to be taught
to them for them to accept byfive years old.
It's disgusting and it'sinvasive.
And if you don't support that,now you're some one of the
phobics.

SPEAKER_08 (48:27):
And then their innocence is robbed, and then
that's a whole other topic ofhow they get raised or what they
learn from there, the traumathat induces the way they have
to grow up faster, the thingsthey learned about just intimacy
in general.

SPEAKER_06 (48:40):
Yeah.
My only the only thing thatfuels rage for me is when kids
are involved.

SPEAKER_08 (48:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (48:46):
The only time any community that is not
considering the kids irritatesme.

SPEAKER_08 (48:51):
Yeah.
I will tell you this.
There's a clip I had just seenrecently of um, this is that
next generation I was tellingyou about, just just the fear,
the worry for these kids, man.
A group of seven, like 11 to13-year-olds just walked up to
an OnlyFans girl that they hadseen in public and openly
admitting to masturbating toher, just talking to her and
talking about their slang, likethe slang that they have now,

(49:13):
and how this kid in the friendgroup probably masturbates to
her the most, and they're justhaving an open conversation in
public with this girl.
Wow.
And that's the thing, like theseOnlyFans models, most of their
contributors are either old menor young kids.
Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 (49:29):
What does healthy accountability look like today?

SPEAKER_07 (49:31):
I mean, it's more like what should it look like.

SPEAKER_06 (49:33):
Yes, maybe so, huh?

SPEAKER_07 (49:35):
Well, it looks like I mean I hate to brag, but it's
what I'm doing.
You know what I'm saying?
Because all accountability is isto me, is I can choose to not
indulge, I can choose to notsupport, I can choose to not
watch.

SPEAKER_05 (49:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (49:51):
I can choose that, I can choose to not support
financially.
Because to me that matters.
Again, money moves the world.
We are not enlightened as asociety, so that's going to be
the way it is for a very, verylong time.
Or is all of that is aboutmoney.
Everything's about money.
So being that that's the case, Ican hit you deep in your
pockets.
And one person can't make adifference, but I choose to do

(50:13):
my part.
So to me, that's whataccountability is.

SPEAKER_06 (50:16):
I agree with you.

SPEAKER_07 (50:17):
Look at that.

SPEAKER_06 (50:18):
Yeah, there's that.
No pushback.
Um, one for everyone.
If you could design a bettersystem for calling out bad
behavior um to replace cancelculture, what would it look
like?

SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
Exactly what dad does.
I think people know that that'sthe right way to go about things
if you want to just just stopsupporting.
But people feel like since Ihave a voice, I can use it.
And you're so you're more thanwelcome to use your voice, but
too far is too far.

(50:49):
Go as far as stop supportingthat business or stop supporting
that person, and people canfollow suit to that.
People know that's the right wayto go about things, but they'll
just go as far as attacking.

SPEAKER_07 (51:01):
It doesn't make enough noise.
It doesn't you're right.

SPEAKER_01 (51:03):
It doesn't make enough here, look at me, look at
it.
I need to make a statementonline so people can see my
comment and like it.
I have a way to fix all that,but it's it's an autocratic type
of decision.

SPEAKER_07 (51:13):
And I'm not in the government, but if I were, I
would tell you this is what Iwould do.

SPEAKER_06 (51:17):
I need 12 hours.

SPEAKER_07 (51:19):
I would implement something, some some two basic
rules.
You have to take an IQ test tobe on the internet.

SPEAKER_06 (51:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_07 (51:25):
So number one.

SPEAKER_06 (51:25):
And have a gun.

SPEAKER_07 (51:26):
No, wait a minute.
Hang on, oh, and have a gun foryou.
Okay, yeah, okay, okay.
No, so you have to take an IQtest and be able to take your
kid home.
So you have to have an IQ test,and so basically you can still
get on the internet, even ifyou're really stupid.
But you can go to certain sites.
Sesamestreet.com.

SPEAKER_05 (51:45):
PvSkids.org.org.

SPEAKER_07 (51:48):
But the second you try to go to a site.
Oh, I said the science kid.
You know, the second you go toyou try to go to a different
type of site, or you try to beinvolved in a conversation,
yeah, you're tested immediately.
Are you qualified to have thisconversation?
Are you qualified to make thisstatement?
Now, IQ is not everything,right?
Because you have some veryhateful, very intelligent

(52:10):
people.
Also EQ.
So are you a good person?
Well, if not so, not even somuch that I would just say IQ in
a sense, but also not so much anEQ, but I would focus on the
fact that do you have enoughknowledge about this particular
subject?
I'll see, for example, oneperson who sing a song.
And as a musician, I'll pick upcertain things that's really
great about that.

(52:31):
And someone will make a commentabout I don't like how you
sound.
And then all the musicians onthere are saying they talk about
timber, they they talk about thetone of this person, the fact
that they have certain keys, thefact that they have certain
progressions in their voice, andthings that are very, very that
matter.

SPEAKER_02 (52:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (52:49):
And here comes this idiot.
I think you sound likeso-and-so, and I don't like that
person.
And you're not qualified to bein this conversation, you don't
need to make a comment.
You don't have the ear for this,right?
Right.
It's not for you.
No one's asking for these peopletheir opinions, but everyone
wants to offer it, right?
So, yeah, that's that's how Iwould I would handle it, man.
You know, IQ test, and do youhave a general knowledge of the

(53:11):
subject in order for you to makea comment?
And every single time you'reabout to make a comment, you're
tested.
Someone mentioned that aboutfootball one time.
You know, you're about to make acomment about Ultra Cingle or
this person or that person orRay Lewis or whatever, and five
questions pop up.
Multiple choice.
What's the blitz?
Uh you know, what's the hailmarry?
A bunch of other questions, youknow, how many quarters in in

(53:33):
the game?
Because here you are with anopinion, you have no clue.
Oh, uh quarters.
I thought it was two halves.

SPEAKER_05 (53:37):
I'm going for the red team.

SPEAKER_07 (53:38):
I'm going for yeah.
So you're not qualified.
Screw that guy.
Yeah, so you're not qualified tohave this conversation, you're
not qualified to make astatement, move on.
Yeah.
That'll be so great.

SPEAKER_08 (53:47):
That's definitely that could be possible for sure
with AI.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (53:50):
Yes, and you're tested, so you have to sign up.
Like you have to sign up to beon the web.
So automatically using your IPor using anything, when you're
making a comment, it tells youyou're not qualified.
You have not qualified for this.
Oh.
For this conversation.
You're too stupid.
And it could be deleted.

SPEAKER_05 (54:07):
How often can you retest?
There's too many rules to this.

SPEAKER_07 (54:09):
Well, once you know, you know.
So let's say you're like anexpert on motorcycles.
Any to and anytime there'sanything on a motorcycle
conversation or racing, youdon't have to take tests.
Free access.
You can free access.
Exactly.
But the second that goes fromthat to aviation, it's two, it's
two different things.

SPEAKER_06 (54:24):
Okay.
How has your opinion on cancelculture changed during this
discussion?

SPEAKER_07 (54:30):
I think that one's for you mostly.

SPEAKER_06 (54:31):
Yeah, for real.
We're looking right at you.
What do you think?

SPEAKER_07 (54:33):
Yeah, well, as I I will admit that it was things
that I didn't know because I wasapproaching it from my view and
what I thought cancel culturewas, and I didn't know it had
become it had grown to be thisugly monster that it is.

SPEAKER_02 (54:44):
Right.

SPEAKER_07 (54:45):
So it's changed in that sense.
And I agree with you guys thatit's out of control and it needs
to be itself needs to becanceled.

SPEAKER_06 (54:53):
Yes.
So we all agree.
Cancel culture needs to becanceled.

SPEAKER_07 (54:57):
But what's one thing that it got right?

SPEAKER_06 (55:00):
If you're doing it for the right reason and you're
doing it the right way, I thinkthat cancel culture has found a
way to spread information aboutsomething negative quickly.
So if there's someone that isviolent, if there is um someone
that, you know, hurts women,hurts children, steals, lies,

(55:20):
says insane things, you know,whatever it is, the mass knows
about it pretty quickly.
Now, what the mass does withthat information is where I
think we've we go wrong.
Jumped off the rails.
Yeah.
But I do like the fact that thatwhole system made it to where we
had that knowledge quick.

SPEAKER_08 (55:37):
I think that's honestly the only reason that um
the Diddy case went as far as itdid.

SPEAKER_06 (55:42):
All the cases, man.
The documentaries, like we arepopping off.

SPEAKER_08 (55:45):
Yeah, like everybody was just tossing around
information.
They were like, look at look atthis, look at this.
What he said, this, this, this,this, and then it's getting used
as evidence.
Now they actually have to dosomething about it, not have to
say something.

SPEAKER_06 (55:56):
It forces hands for sure, but I just think that it
should only force the hands thatcan actually make an impact and
not just create an uproar ofunsolicited opinions.

SPEAKER_07 (56:06):
Cool.
I appreciate you guys for beinghere one more time.
It was really cool having youand um, you know, just listening
to your opinions on things.
And you can tell it wasn't wetalk about all these people and
their opinions, but what Iappreciate about your approach
is the approach itself being Idon't know everything.

(56:26):
I need more data.
And here's what I think, basedon the fact that I have just
this kind of information, butalso not imposing your opinions
and thoughts on someone else.
Right.
Just because I think thatdoesn't mean someone else
should.

SPEAKER_06 (56:37):
Be willing to learn, be willing to grow, be willing
to change, but also give graceand leave room for conversation.

SPEAKER_07 (56:43):
Dope.
That's a good place to end it.
So someone has to do the outro.

SPEAKER_06 (56:47):
Julian is.

SPEAKER_07 (56:48):
Is it Julian?
Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_05 (56:50):
Yeah, maybe get tails.

SPEAKER_07 (56:51):
All right, so you're gonna do Jill from Family Guy?
A beter.
There you go.
Jill from Family Guy.
Let's go.
You ready?

SPEAKER_00 (56:57):
I hope so.
Let's go.
Hey, Bader.
Please support us by followingthe show.
Leave us a five-star review onApple Podcasts.
Thank you so much for listening.
We'll catch you next week whenwe share conversations around
the real issues we deal withevery day.
Manhood matters.