Step-Parenting Without a Playbook

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"If you think parenting is hard, try being a step-parent. If you think separating from your kids is tough, just wait until someone else is raising them." This raw, unfiltered conversation tackles one of the most challenging aspects of modern relationships—navigating the complex world of blended families.

Our panel of fathers brings diverse perspectives to this emotional tightrope walk. We explore the fundamental questions that haunt many step-parents: Do you discipline your stepchild the same way you would your biological kid? What boundaries should exist? How do you earn respect without overstepping? And perhaps most painfully—what happens when your ex introduces a new parental figure into your child's life?

The discussion doesn't shy away from uncomfortable truths. We tackle the territorial instincts that arise when another man enters your child's life, the delicate balance between responsibility and authority, and the unwritten rules that develop in step-relationships. You'll hear candid admissions from Nick, our youngest panel member, about his struggle to accept the possibility of another man parenting his son, while more seasoned fathers offer wisdom gained through years of navigating these waters.

Beyond the challenges, we uncover the critical "boxes" that need checking before someone commits to a blended family situation—from proper timing and boundaries with exes to understanding your role in a child's development. Our panel shares personal stories that illustrate both success and failure in these relationships, providing listeners with practical insights for their own situations.

Whether you're currently a step-parent, considering entering a relationship with someone who has children, or facing the prospect of sharing parental responsibilities with your ex's new partner, this conversation offers valuable perspective on one of modern parenting's greatest challenges. Listen to discover how to protect both your peace and your children's well-being while navigating these complex family dynamics.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
My parents were 40 years older than me, so it was
straight roops.
Anytime I got in trouble, bro,it was roots.
Is that a fair?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
position to put him in, though what do you mean Like
?
Giving the student theresponsibility and the authority
of keeping a roof over theirheads and make sure they got
food and everything every night,but saying they're not allowed
to wolf them.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, first of all, that's not his responsibility,
that's mine.
My kids can always come staywith me.
There's going to be a roof overtheir head regardless.
So it's not that he's needed inthat sense, and I would
basically let him know hey, Idon't put my hands on my kids.
So there it comes down to aninstance where you need to
discipline him If you thinkparenting is hard, try being a
step-parent.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
If you think parenting is hard, try being a
step-parent.
If you think separating fromyour kids is tough, just wait
until someone else is raisingthem.
Point is, these situations arenever easy and none of us came
in this world equipped with theintellectual capacity, mental
fortitude and enlightenment thatit takes to deal with a blended

(01:02):
family.
Do you discipline yourstepchild the way you would your
biological kid?
Do you tiptoe around certainissues because you feel that
you'll be sidelined anyway andyour voice wouldn't hold much
weight?
Does your partner evenunderstand how hard you're
trying?
In today's conversation, wedive into all that.
I'm your host, Stefan.
Joining me today are two wiseand experienced gentlemen,

(01:25):
Jermon Elder and LaDre Gilbert.
And, of course, thisconversation will be lackluster
if not for the curiosity andbrilliance of young single
parent, Nick Pierre.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Let's get to it.

(01:49):
I'm glad you guys are here, man.
So, returning to the show, wehave Nick.
What's up?
Nick, what's going on?
Yeah, man, Mr Barry White,what's going on?
G?
Glad you have your back,brother.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm glad to be back.
I really appreciate you havingme.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, man.
Thank you for being here, man,and we got Dre from the
Barbershop episode who's backhere today?

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yes sir, yes sir, Glad to be back, man.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Of course, brother.
So this conversation is goingto be about being a step-parent.
There's going to be two sideshaving to navigate through that.
If that's your situation, orhow would you handle it.
But the other side of it what Iwant to talk to you guys about
is possibly having your childbeing the stepchild to someone
else, so that has its ownchallenges as well.

(02:33):
What's your situation right now, Dre?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
So I'm divorced, but I had an opportunity to be a
step-parent in an actualmarriage.
I've definitely dated womenwith kids, so it's kind of like,
but it's a different level whenyou're actually married, sure,
and so I think that, um, firstand foremost, as you develop
that relationship with thatchild, it definitely emanates
from the love that you have forhis mother.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
And then so you take the time and people say, you
know like, hey, you know youhave to treat this child the way
that you treat your own child,or love that child in the same
way.
And I think that as humans, youknow that's a process, but it's
a process that you have to bewilling to, you know, embark
upon.
And you know I was and I waswilling to embark upon that.
And so my kids live in Floridaand I got married up here in

(03:18):
Atlanta.
I was like man, I kind of feelguilty because, like, I'm like
spending playing video gameswith this kid, this guy, and, uh
, you know, we're, you know,going like he wants pizza and
pizza.
The pizza he wants is likethree miles away, you know, in
Atlanta.
Three miles, I mean, that'slike an hour and a half, right.
So but I really tried to givehim the same energy I would give
to my kids.
Yeah, you know like it waschallenging, you know, but I

(03:41):
definitely can see myself likeif, if that situation arose
again, like when I get married,you know, but I definitely can
see myself like if thatsituation arose again, like when
I get married, you know, forthe final time, if she already
has kids.
I definitely know how toposition myself and be able to,
you know, be that step parentyeah, so for me I don't like the
phrase.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
And stepchildren.
When people ask me how manykids you have, I just tell them
the number of kids that I haveand sometimes you got the
reaction from my other brotherslike I'll be like I got six.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
I got six kids, like damn you know this is a lot of
kids.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
And if the conversation continues,
depending on how comfortable weare with each other, then I'll
say well, you know, I have fourkids that are my biological
children through two marriages,and then I have two kids from my
wife, who had children becauseshe was married before we got
together.
I even hate saying the wordstepchildren because I never
want to be the stepdad if thatmakes sense, but technically
that's my situation and I thinkthere's a lot of challenges and

(04:29):
that's why a lot of men say theywon't date a woman with
children and vice versa.
So, going right into it, what'sdifferent from the way you
treat your biological childrenversus the way you treat your
stepchildren in a relationshipwhere you were married before?

Speaker 1 (04:46):
So I mean, I think it's just like for me there's
certain demands up front with mykids.
You know like yes, sir, no sir,please, thank you, language,
stuff like that.
You know like how my dad raisedme.
Like you're not going to layaround if you didn't work
overnight.
You're not, you're going to beout of the bed before eight,
nine o'clock.
You know like you're not goingto just lay around all day.
And so the challenge has beenhaving that balance, because I

(05:08):
feel like if I'm going to be abonus parent, I have to still
bring a level of value to beinga bonus parent, right, and so a
part of that is I have to beable to impart something on you.
And so it was a young man thatwas my stepson, and so I felt
like it was my job to take himfrom where he was, because his
dad wasn't in his life.
It was my job.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
You're a full-time dad, at that point, right, right
, right, and you're the dad.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I'm the dad.
And how old was he?
He was 13.
Okay, but and also anotherthing is again, it's an eight
that my kids, they love me.
I'm daddy, daddy, dad orwhatever.
You know.
I'm never LeDray on anycircumstances, unless you know
they're.
I asked them what my name is,stuff like that.
But when it comes to the stepor bonus child, kind of have to

(05:52):
like let them ease into that,what, what would you like to
call me?
You call me Mr Gilbert, you cancall me Mr Dre, you can call me
Mr LeDray it's so awkward yeah,never, never, ledray right now.
We're going to have that, atleast that respect, but it's
going to be Mr LeDray.
It's so awkward yeah, never,never, ledray, right, we're
going to have that, at leastthat respect, but it's going to
be Mr Something.
I'm going to take my time toget to know you and make you
comfortable so that you allow meto be in your life the way that

(06:14):
you cause.
You know you already have a dad.
We're going to develop a uniquerelationship that you're
comfortable with at your pace,and if I had not been a mentor,
I wouldn't have even known howto even develop that type of
relationship with a bonus child.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Right.
Even when it comes to somethingas simple as whether they call
you, it's weird and, at the sametoken, you haven't.
Yeah, you're marrying mom,everything's good.
You love mom.
You automatically feel acertain way about them.
You have to be there and not intheir lives, and you know that
you're going to step into thatrole.
But are you quite dad yet?
Did they call you that early on?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I was raised with my stepfather.
My biological father was out invegas.
I almost never saw him.
I I didn't see him for 15 years, 17 years, something like that.
So I was raised primarily by mystepfather.
How old, um, I was young.
I was seven, six somewhere inthat area.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
You came in early, yeah, but it was weird calling
him dad or father.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I would call him pops .
I ended up calling him pops.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
I agree, it is strange calling him dad or
father, because it's not.
I would call him pops, but he'sthe guy that taught me to play
basketball.
He's the one that taught me howto talk to girls.
He All the stuff a father'ssupposed to tell you.
He's the guy that did it.
So, as far as I'm concerned, heis my father.
When it's time to retire, whenit's time to, he needs a place
to stay.

(07:29):
He needs old folks home orwhatever.
I'm going to be the one that'sgoing to take care of him and be
there for my stepfather Becausetechnically, he's my father.
He's the one who's taught meeverything.
I love him just like a father.
I agree with you, it is strangecalling him dad Because, like I
said, even though he is my dad.
He's always done that stuff.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
And at the time again , you're already seven you knew
enough.
You have enough of your ownagency at that point to
recognize what was what, and youknew that he wasn't your dad.
He came into your life but thenhe became your dad,
no-transcript.

(08:07):
And now, in my current marriage, my oldest stepdaughter she
calls me pop.
For her it was innate.
She's very smart.
I came into her life when shewas 18 years old.
It's strange for her to call meanything different, but my son
calls me Steph, like his mothercalls me Steph.
It's one of those things.
But I did not impose that law.
We never really had theconversation.

(08:28):
It was just like it's whatdeveloped.
And I gotta tell you, man,honestly, there's like I've
always felt a certain way aboutit.
But I'm being completelyvulnerable here.
I kind of feel like it's one ofthose things where it's been
three years have I earned thosestripes yet?
But then, even when you do earnthose stripes, even when you

(08:51):
get to that point where and Ifeel like I have but even then
how do you change somethingthat's just been that he's so
accustomed to?
It's not disrespectful.
He treats me like again his dadis, he's around, he's there,
but he's not really involved forall instances and purposes.
I'm dead Now.
It would be weird, weird, oh.
I don't know how to transitionfrom that.
What's been done, what's beenlaid out, you know and, by the
way, it was one of thosesituations to him, me and his

(09:11):
mom we got together and we weremarried within nine months.
There wasn't a whole lot oftransitioning, there wasn't a
lot of getting used to me, itwas just like boom met him three
months later, me and mamaengaged.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Six months later we're married does he want to
change that or do you want tochange that?
Is that like a great question,ego thing for you, like I want
him to call me dad because I'mdoing all the dad stuff, or is
it something that he desires todo?
He wants to call you stephbecause he sees you as as steph,
or do you want him to see youas a dad?
And that's why you want thattitle?

Speaker 3 (09:40):
the latter, if I'm being super honest, okay, kind
of feel like I've earned it andI feel like, no matter what
happens, right, no matter whathe calls me, I'm going to
continue to earn that.
So was forcing that transitionnecessary?
I don't know.
I don't know that it is.
I remember one time, forinstance, I had to go to his
school.
There was a teacher there andshe asked him she goes, is that
your dad?
And he goes yeah, that's mystepdad.
He didn't say it with any kindof malice, he's a very super

(10:03):
literal matter of fact kid.
But you felt something.
Uh, it hurt me, yeah, you know,and I was like fuck, I hated
that.
Right, you know, and I justwant dad, like, that distinction
makes no difference to theteacher in that moment.
She doesn't care about whetheror not you know it's a
biological, she just needs toknow are you?
The parent?
Really is all she wants to know.
But he was answering thequestion literally and, again,

(10:26):
he didn't mean anything by it.
But that's what I, that's whatI felt in that moment, and this
was still early on in therelationship.
This is like a year in.
Do those breakups?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
hurt in terms of, like I'm separating from the mom
, I'm no longer responsible foryou and your mom.
You're now going to be out ofmy life.
Like you not only lose thewoman, but you're going to lose
the child as well when y'allseparate it's devastating man.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Um, it is because you're losing a child.
That, and now again, it dependson how long the child was in
your life but even then youdon't have any legal no, of
course not no, no, there's nolegal in your life right.
So it depends on how long thekid was in your life.
It depends depends on how oldthe kid is at that point.
Let's say you come into asituation right, the kid is five
, six, seven years old like yoursituation with your dad.

(11:10):
15 years later, mom and dad nottogether anymore.
They go their separate ways.
You have a relationship thatwas forged for a long time.
You decide to keep thatrelationship.
But if at 20 something yearsold you decide, nah, I don't
want to keep that relationship,it's a choice.
I'm sure he's going to breakhis heart, but it's a choice

(11:30):
that you have and he's not goingto force that on you.
So to me I look at it like thekid's own agency.
At that point do they make thatdecision to say, yeah, you're
not with my mom anymore?
So I'm going to like fall backa little bit.
I haven't been so ingrained inthose children's lives that much
, but it will still hurt if Iweren't in their lives anymore.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Another scenario you said five, seven years old,
somewhere in that area, andyou're with this lady for five
years.
Child's now 10.
They don't necessarily havetheir own agency.
They're still dependent ontheir mother for life.
At that point you're erasedfrom their life.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
That relationship hurts, hurts, yeah it hurts,
like you can still maintain itwhen they're 20, 19, 18, sure
but and then you ask I now Ididn't then, you know, a couple
decades ago, whatever.
But I now have the maturity,like this were to happen, where
I recognize that I can justspeak to my ex and say, hey, I
very much would like to be inhis life, I'd like to continue

(12:27):
our relationship, like you and I, we have nothing going on.
But I think that the kind ofwomen that I'm used to dealing
with, they would see that andnot turn that away.
This is me just being an extramentor and extra support for
their kids.
So in that sense I don't thinkthat would be turned away.
But then again sense, I don'tthink that would be turned away.
But then again, I don't know,because my wife is almost like
she's also, she's also kind ofperson.
She's like if I'm done with you, I'm done with you, so yeah,

(12:49):
but.
But I don't know that.
I guess I'd have to ask her.
I don't know that if we were tolike part ways, I don't know
that she would say don't talk tomy kids.
I think she would be like it'sup to them.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I'm not gonna facilitate it if she moved on to
another relationship, would shebe interested in maintaining?

Speaker 3 (13:02):
probably not that relationship, probably not.
But she can't move to anotherrelationship.
If I'm, if I'm gone, she's donewould.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Would she would you recommend for young men to be
willing to be stepfathers likeyou?
You?

Speaker 1 (13:16):
got some maturity.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
You got some seasoning on you right, you can
probably handle it yeah wouldyou say nick, go be a stepdad
man, that's so.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Wait, let's think through this right.
It's a very, very tough thingto do, right?
So it depends on what they haveit depends on is everything
else?
Is all of the other boxes?
Are they checked?
And then, to me, that's, that'swhen we can address the whole.
Can you walk into somebodyelse's life and decide to step
into those shoes?
What is that relationship withher ex?

(13:45):
Is he involved?
Is he not involved?
I find that, as a man, it's alot easier for me when he's not
that involved.
Right, when you first enter arelationship, as as a man, you
like I need that dude out ofhere.
But then when you think throughit and you think about the
children themselves, just like,um, if it helps them, then
you're thinking, if you put themfirst, then you don't think
like that anymore.
So, to answer your question,would I recommend it?

(14:06):
I don't know that I could.
Everything else would have tobe shut because this is such a
hard, hard thing to do.
How you discipline is totallydifferent.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Do you think that's right, though it's?
Not the way I'm going todiscipline my kids and how I'm
going to discipline someoneelse's kids.
I understand that that's goingto be different, yeah, but
should it be?
It shouldn't be, becausethey're all your responsibility.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
But there's something subconscious about that, I know
there's.
Sometimes when you're in arelationship, the woman will say
no, no, you don't touch my kid,you don't say this, you don't
say that I discipline him, youdon't whatever.
It's not him.
He's never made me feel thattype of way.
Where you're not my dad, youdon't get to do this.
That's not what it is.
But there's always been you knowmy own restrictions that were

(14:50):
self-imposed.
My wife needed to trust me,even though we've kind of fast
forwarded through thisrelationship and we've been
together only three years and wegot married pretty, pretty
quickly.
But there was a lot ofconversations was a lot of
conversations and one of thefirst questions she asked me how
was your relationship with yourchildren?
That was her measuring stick.
Because if I was like, well, Idon't really fuck with him, you
know I don't talk to him thatmuch blah, blah or whatever it

(15:11):
is, well, my kids hate me or myson's eye, but my girls, man,
you know, whatever, no let metell you, man um, have you ever
been a step-parent before?
no, he's like 12.
How old are, are you?

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Nick 27.
So, man, let me tell you, inthe words of the great Andre
3000, he said don't do it,reconsider, read some literature
on the subject.
You sure Fuck it.
But yeah, man, like, if you canavoid that, as a 43-year-old
man that's going through that, Iwould tell you to avoid it.

(15:46):
But at the same time, stefanmakes a fantastic point.
I know some gentlemen that arein their seventies, eighties,
that they came into their wives'lives and they had two kids,
three kids, and that man has,you know, he, that's, the pride
of his life is the fact he wasable to raise those children.

(16:06):
So it's like, obviously, thatwoman that he married, she
checked off all the boxes.
So I mean, like I I was saying,don't take on that
responsibility if you you feellike you're, you're still
lacking something in therelationship or you're not
getting what you need out of therelationship, because that
that's going to be a lot.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Hell, he's got to check boxes.
She's got to check boxes too,but he's got to check the boxes
Because, again, if you're goingto walk into someone's life who
has a child or two, right, andyou're going to become stepdad,
it's with their lives that she'strusting you with.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
But stepdad I think that's what I'm saying Like the
fact that he has to check boxes,it's like added pressure.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Exactly.
You know what I'm saying.
Women don't want to be with youunless you check boxes.
Yeah, women won't even get withyou in the first place unless
you check off.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
We have enough boxes, we have to check right innately
, but like when it comes down tokids, like the fact that you
have to check boxes as itrelates to the kids, that's just
like added pressure that youdon't have to deal with.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
you know so just a thought you might as well just
not do it at all what I wouldsay about that is it's not that
you shouldn't do it at all, it'sthat you shouldn't correct
somebody's mistake.
If, if, if there's a woman andher she has four baby fathers
yeah, five kids all of them arein jail.
You shouldn't correct thosemistakes and try and everybody

(17:24):
agrees.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Absolutely.
I think she would agree.
She's a bad mom.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
There's a limit.
She's messy and dirty and shejust needs somebody to come in
and pay the bills so she cancontinue being messy and dirty.
You shouldn't correct hermistakes, you know.
But if you have somebody, she'sa good woman.
Her, her husband, was in themilitary.
He died in Iraq.
The kids are good.
You know she's responsible.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
You could step into those type of situations and add
to it but if she's a decentwoman, she just keep getting
pregnant by the wrong dude nah,there's no such thing wait a
minute, man.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
What happened?
All the checking the boxes?

Speaker 3 (17:59):
no, that's what I'm saying, like no, like you can't
keep getting pregnant by thewrong man there's something
about you that's attracting that.
The problem is you, like yousaid, Don't fix somebody else's
mistakes right.
Well, you have to work onyourself, figure that out.
I'm not supposed to be walkinginto that situation to fix any
of that.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
The ideal thing is to start your own family from
scratch.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
But chances are you're going to run into one or
two.
That's a good girl, but she'sgoing to have a child.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
And then you look at how she raises her own kids,
because I would look at that.
How do you raise your own kids,with or without me, right?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, so so I have a question, right, this is for all
all you guys.
So what if she's already in arelationship?

Speaker 3 (18:35):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (18:45):
So what if?
Cause I'm not there?
No, just say a son and that isher man.
I know y'all running thesituation where her son is her
man and you are literallycompeting with this guy I'm not.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
No, that's so to me that's.
That's an easy.
That's an easy answer too.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
That's a super easy yeah, but I'm saying like, like
the boxes, we're talking aboutcheck boxes.
Right, she checks all theseboxes she should check that one.
That's's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's the biggest box that you need to check.
So, if I can understand, thatis your son.
That is not your husband.
I'm your husband.
I get to take that place.
I get to be that person.
I get to be the number one andI understand that he's your baby
boy.
I understand there's no higherlove, but in the hierarchy of
things, I get to be the man ofthe house.
I get to be that person.
I get to step into his life andserve him as well as I serve
you.
So many things are wrong withthat, but I regret this.

(19:26):
I regret it to this day, but Iwas that way for my mom.
When my mom and dad divorced,she had opportunities to date
other men and I stood firm onnope, nope nope.
Yeah, I stood in the way ofeverything, but I will tell you
back then that my sport littleself was that dude that if a man
came into a life that I wouldprobably give them a super hard

(19:48):
time.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
And that's not cute either, man no there's nothing
like like and even for likelittle girls, bro, like like I
was dating this lady, her kidswere like mad, disrespectful.
And the reason I say is becauseI like, I couldn't imagine,
like I know, if my kids saw mewith another woman.
They may or may not feel likethat's not their mom.
They may have their feelings,but they know they're going to
be respectful.
They may not say anything orgive them that welcoming vibe,

(20:12):
but they're not going to sayanything.
These little girls was likebeing real nasty and real ugly.
So as I talked to mom, mom waslike you know, that was a
product of their brokenrelationship with their father
and stuff like that.
But I got to a point where wehad to have a talk.
I'm like listen, you know sheexpected me to like get down on
their level.
I'm not dealing with that.
Like you have to at some point.
If you're going to date, youneed to have a conversation with

(20:33):
your kids.
You need to let them know andlike understand you got to be,
you'll be respectful, becauseotherwise you know you end up by
yourself.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Cats and dogs Again, I keep bringing up my wife, but
that's one of those.
She had a lot of boxes and theywere all tracked.
One of them was she was married.
She had two kids with a husband.
Didn't work out.
She was single for about 10years and when she was ready to
date she talked to her childrenBefore anything got too serious.
It was like she would talk toher kids and they would know

(21:03):
what's going on.
They knew before they met me.
That's why I felt also reallycomfortable that when I was
going to marry mom, that Iactually went to them first
before I even proposed and Isaid hey, this is a conversation
I want to have with you guys,you know.
So that's a relationship we hadestablished very early on.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
You know, from the people that I've interacted with
through college, you know, lawschool and just in general in
life man, it seems like you know, in Caribbean culture, like
it's that's, that's more of alike.
You guys have that hard stop.
You know, as someone from thecountry man, it's been a little
bit, a little bit more difficultfor me in that sense of being
able to have that hard stop andand and.
Maybe it's like over time andmaturity, you know and learn how

(21:37):
to deal.
You know, become moreemotionally intelligent, have
had to learn how to like.
You know what I'm okay.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Setting that hard boundary.
I don't think it's cultural, Ithink it's more generational.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Children turn out better when they're with a
father, 100% when they're with afather, they just turn out
better.
For women to say they don'tneed a man, especially raising
children, you're going to raisefeminine boys, wild girls.
You're going to contribute tothe degeneracy of society.
So, you need a man in there togive you that stable grounding.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
I think the ones who say that they just don't
understand what the role a manplays, probably because they
didn't have a dad or they'vealways been raised saying you
don't need a man for this, youdon't need a man for that.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
They see the money and the provisioning but they
don't see all the other stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
I think a lot of that man is just defense mechanism.
You didn't have a man around soyou don't want to take the time
to learn what it means to havea man around, not only just in
the actual operative sense butin the essence of having a man
around and what that means.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Also, to be totally fair, they haven't had, like you
just said, they haven't had theexamples.
They haven't had a good manaround, whether it's in the
father figure, whether it's theuncle or whatever it may be.
So if all they're seeing is abunch of bomb dudes and losers,
right, or guys who are absent inthe sense that they exist, they
know who they are, but they'renot stepping up to the plate and
not really handling their ownresponsibilities, then it's

(23:04):
easier for them to say ratherthan me having one of these
deals, because all I know of menis these examples so no, I
don't need a man.
And the reality is the greatman do exist.
So what is it about you nowthat's going to attract that
type of a man?
You don't qualify for them.
So it's not that they are notout there, but you qualify for a
real man.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
And man, you don't qualify for them.
So it's not that they are notout there, but you qualify for a
real man.
And if you have a son or youhave children and you're taking
care of your children and you'rewell, she's, she's taking care
of children, she's doing all thethings, there still needs to be
a man present.
You know, it helps build theyoung lady's self-esteem.
The young man it's just likeyou know, like I remember one
time my dad I was in the houseman and he came in and I don't
know what I did.
My dad came up behind me say,hey, you're walking different.

(23:47):
Now, if you don't straighten itup, I'm going to knock you back
out that door where you walkedin.
And I'm, for the life of me,trying to figure out, like what,
what changed in my walk?
Like what did I do?
Right, it's like around 12 or13.
And he was just like it was mymom.
I was like what's he talkingabout?
She's like I don't know, boy,but you better figure it out.
Like you better get something.
So it was like little stuff,like that.
And he and I joked about it.

(24:08):
You know, up until you know hepassed away.
What did he mean?
So what happens is I know thisnow it's like a rites of passage
when you get to a certain age,man, your dad is going to be
timid.
You know he wants you to beresolute, so he's going to
continue, he's going tochallenge you in ways it's like
WWE.
My dad called me to the mat andI didn't know what was going on

(24:30):
, right, because my dad was abig, strong guy and so over time
, you know, when I had hisbattles, he really was trying to
get me to kind of come at himin a sense.
But he wanted to see like he'spushing me, to see if I was
going to, how I was going torespond.
And then later, when we had wegot older, like I had kids and
stuff like that, he was tellingme he's like you know, son, you

(24:50):
know you, you know you're ahothead man, you know, I mean
the first time I got my firstgun.
He's like, yeah, son, I alwayspray that you never got a gun
because I know that.
You know you were hot.
And I'm thinking myself likenow he he's observed that about
me, but he kept you know he was,he was kept kind of pushing me.
But that's just kind of likethe maturation process, of
stepping into manhood.
It's those small, subtle,intangible things that a man

(25:15):
brings to the table, whether itbe for a young boy or for a
young girl, and help them to beable to develop.
And you can definitely tellthat a man's been there when
they have gotten their presenceand had the opportunity to
operate like that, yeah, I'mgoing to tell you this about my
son.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
My son's mother will let him give up if it gets hard,
if it gets tough.
I won't let him give up, justlike you were saying with, like,
carrying grocery bags andthings like that.
She'll end up taking the bagfrom him, just walking in and
saying, okay, well, come to thekitchen.
I'll tell my son no boy, carrythese groceries, get them up
there.
If I know he can handle it, I'mgoing to make him handle it,

(25:52):
even though he's young.
And that's the difference.
Women will let you give up,especially with boys.
They'll baby them.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah, I mean, we do the same thing with girls, they
do the same thing with theirboys.
I know for sure that my ex withmy son she's the same way.
But yeah, have you ever beensidelined in a situation where,
as a co-parent, there wasanything that needed to be
handled, whether it was adecision to be made or something
that needed to be handled onbehalf of the child, whether it
was school or some kind ofdisciplinary action where you

(26:20):
would just like checked and kindof put in your place?

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Absolutely so my stepson would go to spend time
with his, her family during thebreaks.
I remember one time we wereactually on a trip together she
asked me she wanted to stay anextra day.
I mean it's more money.
I mean I'm ready to go home now, I'm ready to get back in my
bed.
But I made the arrangements andthen the next day she woke up

(26:44):
like oh, I need to go get my son.
But you said that you wanted tostay.
No, I need to go get my sonright now.
And I was like I'm sure he'llbe okay another day.
Like, as I'm looking at mywallet at this point, like hey,
man, like I spent a little bitof money for us to stay.
She was like no, what she toldme was he was ready to come home

(27:05):
.
Like right, then, okay.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
So it's not like he was in danger or anything, no,
he wasn't, but it was like, hey,I'm ready to leave now.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Me personally, I mean , he's with his family, I feel
like he'll be okay, he's fine.
Yeah, 24 more hours, sure, butthat's when I learned very early
on in our marriage, when hecalled, she would drop
everything.
Marriage.
When he called, she would dropeverything, which is another
thing I want to talk about.
I don't know how we're going tofit that in, but she dropped
everything.
But like in the biblical sense,right.
So the bible says when a manand woman become married, they

(27:34):
leave their parents and theycleanly become one flesh.
Hierarchy is God, your spouseand then your children come
afterwards.
But when you start talking aboutstep, well, step or bonus
children, right, does itimmediately become that way?
Is that something that happensover time?
Is that something that nevereven happened?
Because, for example, I say Iwas home with her and I was

(27:54):
talking to her you know heruncle, who was like her dad, and
I said, hey, you know I'm goingto love her in the way the
Bible says.
I'm supposed to love her LikeI'm going to forsake all others.
I'm going to put her like.
You know, god heard my children.
He's like you're a damn fool Ifyou do, you better love your
children.
You don't put no damn womanover your children.
Your children come first.
And the hell with that and thisis he's talking about his niece
like the hell with that womanand you.

(28:16):
And so that that kind of likethrew me off because I was like
wow, I was like okay, I've heardpeople say that since then.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
So why it used to be that way Probably one of the
reasons that second marriagedidn't work and it's because
it's a choice I made, becausethat's just the way I thought
about it, that's the way itshould be.
So to me, this is not abiblical thing at all.
It's just the way that there'scertain things that you just
develop on your own, or you tendto develop your own
philosophies.
It's just what feels right.
So for me, what feels right andwhat feels totally natural and

(28:43):
I would never change this now ismy wife definitely comes first,
and the reason that is you haveto have a different
relationship.
So with my children, eachrelationship is different.
I just have differentexperiences.
But one thing that I know for100% certain is that the choice
that I made and the choice thatmy wife made for us to be
together, that was a choiceright.

(29:05):
I didn't birth her, she didn'tbirth me.
We made a choice to be together.
We made a commitment If there'ssomeone that I expect to be by
my side and we talked about thisin several episodes where if
you can't do for yourself whatthat person do for you, it's my
wife, as I will do for her.
So I have to put a first,because I expect, in the natural
order of things, that mychildren will leave me.
Not in the sense I don't see me, but they are moving on,

(29:26):
they're going to go have theirown families.
I expect fully for my daughterto have a husband and say, hey,
as much as I love my daddy, I'mall about my daddy, but he's got
to come first and that makessense to me.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I wish Madison would.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Go ahead.
But see, to me that makes sense.
And I'm not saying in the sensethat we're changing subject a
little bit here, but say, forinstance, there is something
where I'm just like I need mydaughter to do this and her
husband's like no, do that, guys.
I mean we could open that boxif you want to, but you need to
do what your husband said.
That's right.
I'll step in when it is anabusive relationship, like she

(30:00):
needs to blank twice now.
Okay, we're gonna make him.
We got 23 acres.
I got plenty of places to burythem.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yes, sir Right.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
So, that's a different story, that hierarchy
that you're talking aboutbiblically.
That's why that exists, because, exactly what you said, your
children are going to leave you,they're going to go on, they're
going to start their own lives.
In the end, it's going to beyou and your wife.
Correct, you started with youand your wife.
So your wife or your spouse issupposed to be the next person

(30:26):
after God?
A lot of women don't understandthat, and they do want to put
their children there.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah Right, switching gears.
We all have children.
This is inevitable.
Your ex is going to end upbeing with someone else, if
she's not already.
How do you navigate throughthat, knowing that there's going
to be another person is's goingto step in and parent your
child.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
That's a tough one.
I'm not going to lie, I don'tmind.
I know she can't be aloneforever, so I don't mind her
being with somebody, but someoneelse, like stepping in and
being around my son, like livingwith him and all that.
I don't think I'm ready toaccept that.
Yet that's going to be thehardest thing for me, knowing
that.
That's going to be the hardestthing for me, knowing that
there's going to be anotherperson there, probably just
trying to have talks with themor just try to do anything that

(31:10):
I should be doing.
I'm going to have a tough timewith that.
Just keeping it a buck with you, you will.
There's nothing you can do.
There's nothing, yeah.
So that's why I'd like like I'dbe accepting, like I didn't
marry her.
It's still tough.
I think it's a pride thing orsomething, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
It's pride.
There's an emotional tightropethere.
But, yeah, there's so manythings to be concerned about.
There's a million things, andthey're not just hypotheticals.
Number one is that child safe?
Because, let me tell you,people can mask a lot, and so if

(31:47):
my ex decides she's going to bewith someone, I have a
nine-year-old little girl.
So that's really scary to me.
So I have to think about that.
Not a damn thing I can do aboutit.
So I have to trust that thisperson that I was with at one
point is that person putting thechild first at every turn, or
are they putting their needsfirst?
In that sense, we just talkedabout us being step-parents,
step-dads and coming in todiscipline a child.
Earlier in the show I said, Igot to come in thinking that

(32:10):
there are certain things that Ijust don't even think about
doing.
When it comes to my stepson, Ilove him the same, but I have to
have these restrictions.
I have to think about that andgo.
Let me slow myself down.
But when I know that there isanother father involved, I take
a beat, I take an extra fiveseconds and I rethink my actions
.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
The problem with being a stepdad to me is, for
one thing you could lose thekids, but another thing is you
have the responsibility oftaking care of these children,
providing for them, keeping aroof over their head and make
sure that they're safe and caredfor Right.
So you have the responsibility,but not all the time do you
have the authority to guide themin the way that you're supposed
to right.

(32:49):
So responsibility withoutauthority, that's a problem for
me.
That is slavery to me.
Giving somebody else theauthority over my children is a
hard thing.
Most men, I don't think, wantto do that.
You know, because we understandit may or may not be the way we
would do it.
I would be a hypocrite to saythat I want the authority to
deal with somebody else'schildren, but no one can have

(33:10):
the authority to do it Right.
I would be okay with somebodyelse disciplining my son, but I
would feel some type of wayabout it.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Obviously it would matter what style of discipline
they impose, right we're nottalking about.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
I would want it to be as close to what I would do as
possible.
Right, pose, right, we're nottalking about I would want it to
be as close to what I would doas possible.
Right, if I would have poppedhim and give him a good talking
to, then I would expect him toget popped and get a good
talking to.
But if he's, you know, lockedin a room and has bleach poured
over him or something like that,then, yeah, I would have a
problem with that.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Then we got 23 acres of barryman yeah yeah, so.
So, nick, so he just said itlike right if he'd be okay with
doing it.
Are you okay with the stepdaddoing it?

Speaker 4 (33:50):
no, not yet I'm not there yet.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
No, no, he nah he can't do it.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
I'm not there yet.
Probably like I might change mymind when I get older and when
he get older, but right now Ican't do it.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
You know what happens to lions when they take over a
pride so they gotta do.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
They kill all the offspring.
They kill all the offspring.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's actually a common thing in mammals.
When a male takes over anothergroup and he kills all the other
children and then makes withthe females and makes his own
children.
In humans, the way it manifestsis a stepdad will come in and
they'll actually abuse thechildren, so they'll beat them,
they'll molest them, things likethat.

(34:31):
It manifests in those waysImmediately that's where your
mind goes to that my childrenare going to be abused because
they're not his children.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Right, absolutely.
So.
If we go back to the previousside of the conversation,
watching my steps, watching mymouth acting a certain way?
Because, again, I don't wanthim to feel you're not my dad,
that's why you act that way.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Let me ask y'all this In order to step into the
situation where you want to bestep parents, where you want to
mentor and guide children.
What are some of these boxesthat need to be checked off in
terms of, like, what the mom'scoming in with?

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Dre, if you want to go, but I've got a couple for
sure.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Because I've got a couple for sure, because I've
heard you say this time and timeagain about checking the boxes.
So I actually want to hear fromyou and learn from you, like
how you evaluate it.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
So it goes back to what I talked about before, when
I said there has to be aperfect balance of her desire to
have you in her life and herneed to be in her life, meaning
I need to come in and see howshe interacts with these kids.
Are these kids rambunctious?
Are they running wild?
Are they educated?
Are they cultured?
Are they well-mannered?
When I met them, they're notrude, they're respectful.

(35:35):
They do what they're supposedto do.
You can ask for a bettersituation.
She didn't need me to comecorrect.
Some little wild bansheesrunning around, so that was one
of the boxes.
Are you able to raise them onyour own?
Are you doing a good job towhere what you need now is a
male presence?
Secondly, even financially,you're able to take care of

(35:57):
yourself, take care of yourfamily, take care of your
household, take care of yourchildren.
You didn't need me.
It wasn't like, hey, they wereliving in the dark and I showed
up and chased all the roachesaway and paid the bill.
Finally, that's not whathappened.
Her house is a lot nicer thanmine and bigger than mine, right
, you're?
doing right I came in, it wasjust like okay, everything was
already there.
One of the boxes is what's yourrelationship like with the ex?
Is it something?
I'm gonna feel that boundariesare being crossed?

(36:18):
There was nothing toxic alreadyever talked.
There's no relationship that'scontinuing, but they're also not
each other's throat when theytalk is something as simple as
like whatever it is that heneeds, but but it's a simple
civil conversation.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Were the exes ever like a concern for you Cause,
statistically, when women leavetheir husbands, they usually go
back to an ex like a theirchildren's father or an ex
boyfriend or something like that.
Have exes ever been a concernfor you in terms of?

Speaker 3 (36:43):
No, no Cause I.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
I mean, I don't know, Maybe I'm a little full of
myself, but I never worry aboutyou, that guy you know.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
No, that's not a, that's not a real concern.
Um, but again, was it fresh?
Was there a a wound with a scabon it that can still get picked
at?
No, I mean, her shit had beendone and over with for almost 10
years before I even showed up,so I wasn't worried about that,
and my previous relationship isthe same thing she had been over
and done with.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Gee, what he's telling you without saying it is
.
There's a statute oflimitations on the ex.
The ex has had to be out of thepicture for about a year and I
never actually thought about it.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
But you're right, it kind of worked out that way.
But I think that to me, even ifit had, it had been like, oh,
it's only been a year.
But I don't look at the time somuch, I look at what is that
dynamic, what is thatrelationship like?
If you need to show a littlecry on, are you calling?
Oh, I can get you on the phone.
But hey, we're still buddies,so I get to call him and cry

(37:42):
about this or whatever, andhe'll listen because he's still
a friend.
I never had to worry about thatand if I did a red flag for you
.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Fuck yeah, I would have been aware I would have
been gone, you're right, youstill talk to your ex, you still
cordial with them.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
We can't, we can't do this okay no, look, I want you
to be cordial with him,especially the children involved
, because if there's a situation, something happens to my son,
we we're in a hospital I wouldexpect the other dude to be
there.
He's going to show up.
I would expect that we don'tneed to be fighting in the
waiting room.
There's a bigger picture.
There's a bigger thing we needto be concerned about.
That's my thing.

(38:16):
He's going to go into doingsomething wonderful graduating
college, winning an award, beingrecognized for something big.
You want everyone to be there.
That's the extent of it.
I don't need to tell you whatto do.
In that sense, if you haven'tfigured it out yet, then you're
not ready to be in arelationship, at least not with
me.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Right, but if he's like a funny guy, he makes her
laugh and you know everything'sbest friends, then they're going
to end up back together, man,because that's exactly how that
works.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
I'm funny Women.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
I'm funny too, I know how that works.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Right, I've made a lot of jokes.
They cannot be friends.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
But, nick, I wanted to say something to you man, but
I have like a three prongapproach Right that I initiate
when it comes down to trying tomake sure that that the
gentleman that comes into mykid's life because my ex has
moved on that we kind of kind offollow Right.
The first thing is I've beenblessed in the sense of the
mother of my children.

(39:09):
She's a very sound mind,level-headed, I would just say,
by her nature, a cautious person, right.
So I know that if there's a manthat's being brought around our
children, then I can trust thatshe is making a decision based
on, you know, like she hasvetted this guy Biggest blessing
in the world.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Keep going Just right there.
That is right.
There is the biggest blessingthat I can trust you that you
will do what's right by them.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Right, go ahead, and then I know that she's going to
when that time comes, she'sgoing to keep me fully aware.
Hey, I've got a relationshipthat's progressed to this point.
That's my first approach is theopen, the communication and
understanding about that.
The second thing about it is isthat now, as a dad not saying
that I was lax before, but I gotto make sure I'm really present

(39:54):
now because I want my kids tounderstand that Like and I want
him to understand that this iswhat ego comes in Like, bro, I
know what you're saying.
Now listen.
Now you know my ex and I arenot together, so I understand
why you're here, but you're notneeded.
You know, because dad is here.
You know, like he's not here inthe sense of the boyfriend or
the husband or that anymore, butdad is here.

(40:15):
I'm here for my kids.
My kids know that.
And the third thing is we woulddefinitely have to have a
conversation about level ofexpectation and I'd ask him.
You know, I'd come out and askhim.
I'd say, you know, hey, how doyou discipline kids or what do
you think about that?
It's not just someone else'skids, because I have friends and
frat brothers, like one of myfrat brothers was telling me man
, he's married to this lady andher ex is not here.

(40:38):
I mean he's not.
I mean his ex is not around.
So he puts his hands on thiskid and he doesn't have kids.
I mean he fights this like,beats this kid and he brags
about yeah, I had to kick hisass, I had to be, I had to put a
foot in his ass.
I'm like the fuck, like, bro,that's, that's not, that's
somebody else's child.
Bro, you're somebody else's kid.
And I had another friend of mine, man, uh, uh, one of my

(41:00):
homeboys from from fam man backin undergrad, he doesn't have
any kids but he tells me all thetime man, I had to go upside a
little boy head.
Man, he got to understand youknow what was going on.
And I'm thinking to myself likeI have kids and I don't operate
like that.
So I would definitely want tohave a conversation with this
guy about my expectations oflike, look, bro, I don't put my
hands on my kids right, I try toavoid at all costs.

(41:22):
I've only spanked my daughtertwice, only spanked my son twice
, and it broke my heart to do it, Not because I don't want to
discipline them, it's because ofme personally when I was
growing up.
That's all my parents knew.
My parents were 40 years olderthan me, so it was straight
roots Anytime I got in trouble,it was straight roots.
It was roots.
Is that a?

Speaker 2 (41:42):
fair position to put them in, though.
What do you mean?
Like giving the other guy, the,the responsibility and the
authority of keeping a roof overtheir heads and make sure they
got food and everything?

Speaker 1 (41:54):
every night, but saying then they're not allowed
to whoop them.
Uh well, first of all, he he's,that's not his responsibility,
that's mine.
My kids can always come, staywith me.
There's there's going to be aroof over their head regardless,
so it's not that he's needed inthat sense, and I will
basically basically let him knowlike, hey, you know, like I
don't put my hands on my kids.
So you know, if there comesdown to an instance where you
need to discipline them, like Isaid, dad is active, dad is here

(42:14):
Now.
Now listen, if they're beingdisrespectful to their mom, if
they look like they're about tobow up at you or bow up at mom,
do you do what a man does.
But when it comes down to iftheir room's not clean or if
they say something, or you know,miss Curfew, don't do chores.
No, bro, you keep your hands toyourself, take a cell phone,
but you, putting your hands onmy kids is going to cause a

(42:35):
problem.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
This is where you guys kind of disagree, but again
you're coming from ahypothetical situation because
you don't know it.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
What would you allow somebody to do for your children
?

Speaker 1 (42:44):
What do you mean like do for them?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
His overall responsibility is he's going to
pay the bills.
The lights got to be on thepower, all that type of stuff,
right, the general thing to takecare of them.
Little Timmy wants to playfootball.
Okay, he wants a PlayStation 5,you know.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
And this dude, if he provides those things for him,
you know, should he have somesay in it.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Absolutely.
Should he have some say in itAbsolutely.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Well, let me just say this that's the point of
having— he paid for footballcamp.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Right?
Well, only because Dad you knowhe swiped before, but Dad
probably zelled in the moneyafterwards because Dad's going
to make sure he gets paid.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
But what if you say hey, I don't want him to play
football, I want him to playbasketball?

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Well, you know, I mean— that now, because here's
the thing, that's where you goto the legal standpoint.
The decisions about what thechild does and does not do,
those type of decisions, thoseare made by biological parents.
So he cannot make my son playfootball if I say he doesn't
want to play, and so me and momhave to work that out.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
There is a parenting plan through the divorce and
those things are hashed out.
Hopefully you never need to goout and pull that piece of paper
because we have conversations.
At the end of the day again, weboth want to see that child win
.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
But I want to go back to what you're saying, z,
because you're making a greatpoint and I want to make sure I
address that.
I'm not going to tell this guyif my son raises up at you, you
can't do what a man's supposedto do.
If my daughter is beingdisrespectful towards her mom
and she's, you know, getting anattitude and she's just being
nasty with her mom, you can't.

(44:12):
You know, I'm not telling himthat.
All I'm saying is look, bro, Icome from a generation where my
dad told everybody that hedropped me off with they have
free reigns to beat my ass.
I'm talking about my Boy Scouttroop leader.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
I'm daddy.
This man white, this man white.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, I'm like this man white he beat different
right, right, right.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
That's how it used to be, though you walk through a
neighborhood and, miss jenkins,she could beat you, and that's
where I grew up.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
But I'm gonna say how deep it got.
Like I said, my dad told my boyscout troop leader that he
could beat my ass.
He told my high school baseballcoach that I'm dropping him off
with you.
My dad told my college coach,if he gets out of line, you can
beat his ass.
And I'm looking at my dad likeyou can't beat my ass, no more,
I'm saving to beat my ass.
But I'm just saying like that'sthe mentality.
So I just like I tell you, man,my parents believed in that

(45:04):
roots type beatings, and I justdon't.
I don't want that for my kidsbecause I fall for that
scripture Like when it saysparents, bring not your sons or
daughters to wrath.
Like you you're supposed to andI know that you're supposed to
not.
People say spare the rod, spoilthe child.
I don't believe that's a.
Literally you got to beat themwith anything.
Because I'm telling you, man,that create to beat them with

(45:28):
anything.
Because I'm telling you, man,that create.
I'm talking about my own selfand things that I've had to.
I got in more fights in collegethan I ever did in middle school
, high school.
I went to college fighting why?
Because I got my ass beat allthe way up until I was a certain
age.
So when I got to college it wasjust like you know, and I was
in high school I was so afraidof my dad, you know, cause he

(45:49):
would beat my like he would get,he would get down Right.
And so when I got to college,right real quick, found out this
is a whole nother thing, but Ifound out two days before my
high school graduation.
I was Like I go from, like thisguy over here is beating me,
like he wants me to play, I'msupposed to plow a field for him
or something like I'm a rentedmule.

(46:11):
And then I'm like, wait aminute.
But he didn't tell me I wasadopted.
So I went to college, I wasangry and it's and it's my part
of my own trauma that I have todeal with that.
I just don't want to cross thatline with my son and my kids.
I have my kids think of me assomebody that just beats on them
, especially when I live inAtlanta and I see them during
breaks.
I see them periodically.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
So basically, the bottom line is, when a step
parent steps into yourbiological child's life, number
one, you're blessed in the sensethat the mother of your
children is the right type ofperson, has the right mindset
and puts the kids first, and soyou don't have too much to worry
about there, absolutely.
Secondly, you want to beintroduced to this person
because you want to see who'sgoing to be in your kid's life.

(46:53):
Right, and that's fair.
You know, I would.
I would expect that to be kindof like the norm.
And and thirdly, if there is tobe any kind of punishment,
there's a limit to what can beinflicted upon that child,
anything beyond taking the phoneaway, tie mouth or anything
like that.
You need a phone call.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Right, Because I mean I'm reasonable.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
I'll put it this way.
So I got a little girl.
She's nine.
That's the only kid who couldbe in a situation where she'd
have a step-parent.
I'm kind of like Nick in thatsense.
Man, she's got a little mouthon her.
She'll talk back, she'llchallenge you or whatever.
Very, very smart.
Again, it's my oldest, 2.0.
They're the same kid.
So I look at that and I go yeah, I don't need you to beat on

(47:38):
her, because punishment worksFor you to get to the point
where you felt like you neededto pull a belt or whatever and
physically harm her.
Yeah, we're gonna, like yousaid, man, we're gonna problem.
We have a big problem.
That's me personally.
I just need to say in it, Ijust need to know that you can't
just decide, that you're gonnaarbitrarily just decide you're
gonna inflict punishment in away that I would not agree with,

(47:58):
right, because then that'sgonna be an issue for me.
What would you do about it?
What?

Speaker 2 (48:02):
would I do about it?

Speaker 3 (48:02):
yeah, I don't know how about, I just say that on
the show.
So I have responsibilities, man.
You know my responsibilitiesgoes beyond my own personal
safety or well-being.
My responsibility is to my wifeand to my children and, as a
protector, I need to be able todo that and I will not be
encumbered when it comes tohandling business.
All right.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
He had a moment there , man, he got, got, he was.
He stuck in the matrix for asecond.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yeah, yeah, man, I kind of froze up there because I
had to think about I'm a visualperson.
I started thinking about shit,so rapid fire questions are you
dad or you just mom's husband?

Speaker 4 (48:42):
well, that's the son.
I'll say that's the son.
I always call my mom's husbandthe husband.
Like some people be like youmean your stepdad.
I'm like no, that's my mom'shusband.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Right.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Really yeah, but I think that's just something
wrong with me.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
I kind of so let me ask you a question.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Your situation is something wrong with me, so your
situation is your mom'sremarried?
Yeah, Okay, you don't say mystepdad?
No, I never said anything.
How old were you when he cameinto your life?
So I was grown like okay, my20s.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Oh yeah, shit, that's my mom's husband too, bro.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
Like yeah, I feel weird saying anything with dad
yeah I kind of get it.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Yeah, my stepdad was just dad period for me.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, you were again seven when he came into your
life.
Yeah, that's dad, how aboutmaking peace with not being in
control?
This question is for you mostlynick um, because you sure as
hell ain't in control.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
It's a process.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
I think one day maybe but what are you doing about it
?
Like, okay, so one day, we knowtime for the most part heals
all wounds, we know that you'regonna get there, but what are
you actively doing to get there?
After this conversation today,I know you had to be thinking
about what do I do to get tothis point.
Because the more you prolongthe beef or whatever it is, the

(49:55):
more you give into it, the moreyou react, the more you prolong
your own agony, right andinevitably and directly causing
your own son to suffer.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
I'm not doing anything really Like well to be
for her like.
If she starts on, you know, thebetting app Underdog, I'll just
send her my Underdog link.
It's just in the middle of anargument and then she stopped
talking.
But, like other things, like toaccept what.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
What, what, what.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
You know, like the gambling app Underdog.
Sure gambling app underdog sureyou know, you send a link to
someone to sign up, you get alittle 75 bonus.
So when she's talking trash, Ijust send her that link so you
send her some money.
No, no, I send her the link tosign up so I could get some
money.
I don't get it so it's a trollthing I just troll her like go
ahead sign up for that.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
So you know, so you'd be quiet so I can put some
parlay.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
I was so lost, okay, go ahead, she don't sign up and
she don't say anything.
Be bothered listening to you.
I was like what's going on?
I was so lost.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Okay, go ahead.
She don't sign up and she don'tsay anything else.
So I learned like maybe that'sthe trick.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Yeah, yeah, you got some work to do yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Yeah, I do, I do.
But what you said about the nothaving a control thing, I'm not
doing anything about that.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
I feel like over.
Accept it.
What I'm telling you is thatthe secret actually is to not
have reactions and to be okaywith things.
Everything's happening for you,not to you.
Count to five and then say okay, what would 40 year old me do
in this situation?
Because, again, children arenot blind.
My biggest fear with raising mykids and the reason I kept
fighting was because I wanted toprove something to them.
I wanted them to see that Ifought for them.
I wanted my kids to know Ididn't turn my back, I didn't
give up on you, I didn't leaveyou, I fought for you.

(51:30):
I wanted that to be the realitythat they embrace, that they
knew I didn't have to do any ofthat.
They would have seen it from myactions, but I felt like I
needed to prove something.
I needed to be on record.
I didn't need to do any of thatshit, I just needed to let it
go.
And Last question If you cangive advice to a new stepfather
walking into those shoes, whatadvice would that?

Speaker 1 (51:51):
be.
You know, man, I alwaysappreciate these questions, man,
when you get to this level,because, you know, it invokes a
deep level of thought and a verycareful analysis.
And so what I would say isbrand new stepfather, is that
take it one day at a time.
Same thing, I'll tell you, Nick, you know.
Give yourself some grace.
Take it one day at a time.
Same thing, I'll tell you, nick, you know.
Give yourself some grace.
And as you're learning thischild and you're developing a

(52:13):
relationship with this child,make sure that you do it in a
level that's comfortable withthem.
Try to take your ego out of it.
Try to take your personalfeelings and emotions out of it.
You know, this is a littleperson that's still learning and
growing and they're stilltaking in everything and,
whether they say it or not,they're going to automatically

(52:33):
look at you as an authorityfigure because you're older.
It's not going to be linear,probably going to be some ups
and downs but, just take yourtime and, over time, if you're
consistent and your intentionsare righteous and you show up
for that child, that child willappreciate you and then it'll be

(52:57):
.
You'll get the reciprocationthat it is that you as a man,
the validation throughreciprocation that you want, and
I truly believe that yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
I think the biggest reward for you later on as a man
is what your father G hasexperienced, which is the
acknowledgement from someonelike you, who's grown into a man
and just become your man ofyour own, has a family of your
own, to look back at that man,who wasn't your biological dad,
and say I also mentioned thatperson, that person was there
for me, that was dad.
I think that to me, that's thebiggest reward.

(53:22):
Steph, let me ask you this.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Actually, let me ask Nick this how would you feel
about a woman coming into yourlife and you starting to date
somebody else?
How would you allow them tointeract with your child as a
stepmom?

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Great question.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Would that be an issue for your girl or his
mother?
I'm not sure how much say wouldyou let her have over your
house?

Speaker 4 (53:41):
I mean I think she should have like a voice, but I
wouldn't want to step onnobody's toes.
So if it's something likecertain boundaries, like I got
certain boundaries for the dude,that like makes sense.
Like I want to like go againstwhat she's saying.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
I get the impression that you're a reasonable person.
You already said she's notreasonable.
How much of her requirementsare you willing to listen to?

Speaker 3 (54:03):
It's like he's in court because he remembers what
you said about 45 minutes ago.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, yeah, he pulled the record on it.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
I honestly don't know how she would react.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
So it's a challenge also for the women coming in.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
I can tell you that what would the women have an
issue with with another womancoming in?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Hey, I need you to take my son to daycare for me?
I got to go to work.
Can you take him to daycare?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I feel like that easier, bro.
First of all, you think thatmen are territorial, bro.
Yeah, women are territorial.
It's not even about thattrade-off.
Yeah, that could make her lifeeasier, but does that give her
access to you?
And it's that access to youthat will like kind of like
bother her what I've experienced.
They want to make sure thatyou're cut off from that exit,
you're cut off from that person.
You're cut off from that exit,you're cut off from that person,
you're cut off.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
You have to change earlier than your mind is ready
for is what we're saying.
That's what advice is about.
That's why the experience wehave the experience and we're
telling you look, you'lleventually get there right, but
you might get there at 34.
You might get there at 35.
We're saving you seven years.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
It's going to be painful.
I'm not saying that this isgoing to go smooth and you're
not going to.
You're not going to feelanything with it.
It's going to be painful.
But allowing a woman toweaponize your kids against you,
you're going to lose more time,more money.
You can lose a little bit rightnow, but you're going to lose
more if you allow it to keep up.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
But gee, what's the trade-off, though?
Because I mean, like whatyou're saying, it feeds me and
it helps me, but aren't thechildren suffering for that?

Speaker 4 (55:30):
Yes, I mean, isn't that times you can't get?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
back.
Yes yes, so what's the balance?

Speaker 2 (55:36):
This is chess, all right.
He's the king In order for thegame to keep going the king has
to be able to function.
The king has to be able to keepgoing Right.
You know, for all the otherpieces, for the entire kingdom
to function, the king has to beOK.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
You pretty much said was a trade off.
The trade off is this is timeyou don't get back.
It's a great question, right,and that was my concern.
That's what I'm saying.
That was my biggest concern,and if I can go back and I would
do it again and there was acrazy condition that was
presented to me in order for meto see my kids I will say no, I
can't do that.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Okay.
So let me go back G, becausewhat you said now you know you
put your context to it.
I actually like what you saidin that you have to be your
optimal self.
You can't be a good dad ifyou're scrambling and you're
upset and you're emotional andyou're all over the place.
You're doing a disservice toyour kids because when you're
with your kids you're saying andlike protecting your inner

(56:27):
peace and having your stability.
That makes a lot of sense.
But I think you know, when wehave children there's an
unwritten rule that we havesigned a contract.
That means that we now aregoing to do things that we
normally probably wouldn't do inthe first place.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
You make sacrifices, so, so so.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Right, right, you're gonna make sacrifices.
So, for example, like and likeI said, it's not my situation,
but I can just see, like inother situations, like where
other you know women have kidsand I observed them and their
father, their children, I wouldhave never spent two minutes
with this woman beyond, like youknow, if I was this guy, except
for the fact he has to kind oflike, he has to acquiesce, he

(57:07):
has to bend the knee becausethat relationship with his
children is more important thanyou know, him feeling like you
know, I'm not going to go alongwith whatever she says.
And then, on the opposite end,I've seen, I have a friend of
mine that said as long as I makethis child support payment
every month, that's all I'mrequired to do.
His son now is wild and wideopen.
His daughter is jumping out ofwindows and sneaking out.

(57:28):
Wild and wide open, hisdaughter is jumping out of
windows and sneaking out.
I mean, they're 18, 19, 20.
And his son doesn't have anydirection.
Because I was telling him manbro, you have a whole lot more
responsibility than just sendingthat check here.
You've got to spend time.
So now he's trying to go at 20and reprogram all this stuff
that's been going on.
And there have been other menaround.
There have been loser, no goodtrashy dudes that have been

(57:51):
around that have programmed hisson and programmed his daughter.
They've seen all this stuff.
For example, you know, hisdaughter has seen her mom be in
an abusive relationship, thosetypes of things.
But now you know God hasblessed him and it's so funny.
Like man, he has three kids,from like seven all the way down
to like two years old, and nowthey're in the house with him.

(58:11):
He's getting an opportunity tobe dad every day.
And he comes back he told me,said brother, you know what?
You're right, man.
It made a difference.
I can see the difference itmakes now that I'm here in the
home with my kids every day, asopposed to me just sending a
child support check and you knownot not being there and you
know not not being there.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
I'm not advocating that you just send a check and
you don't interact with them atall after that.
Yeah, I'm saying that you dowhat you're required to do by
law, but sitting there andslugging it out with a woman
that's clearly trying tomanipulate you is not going to
be good for you long term.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
I mean, sending a check is not parenting.
Sending a check is just facinga legal responsibility.
But again, when you step in asa parent, you step in as a
parent.
Basically, you have to do whatyou have to do, pull the pin on
the grenade.
take everybody in the guy I'mgoing to find the sound effect
just for you, man, just to makesure we have this explosion
every time you say that.
Guys, this was a greatconversation.
I think it was very insightful.
I think we all got somethingfrom it.

(59:03):
So earlier today, with the cointoss and gee, you get to be.
Who are you gonna be again?
I'll try, bernie mack, berniemack.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Well, go ahead and take us out, bro.
Hey, man, just be you.
Lord, have mercy.
Please support us by followingthe show.
Leave us a five-star review onapple podcast.
Thank you so much for listening, you sum of bitches.
We'll catch you next week whenwe share conversations
surrounding real issues we dealwith every day manhood matters.

(59:36):
We're out, you sum of bitches.