The Golden Handcuffs: Breaking Free From Your 9-to-5

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What separates those who dream about entrepreneurship from those who actually succeed at it? In today’s conversation, brand strategist Rod Brinson reveals how getting laid off after 20+ years in corporate America became the catalyst for his entrepreneurial journey.

We dive deep into what our host Stéphane  calls "the ugly duckling phase" of business—those grueling early months when success seems impossible. Insurance agency owner Willie Nash shares stories of sleeping in Walmart parking lots between client meetings, making no money, yet refusing to give up because his desire for freedom was stronger than his fear of failure.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when discussing the critical role of spousal support in entrepreneurial success. It's not just about emotional encouragement; it's about practical partnership. As friend of the show Leon Cohen explains, "It's not the dream that she needs to believe in. It's you." This insight alone could save countless marriages strained by business ambitions.

Rod breaks down the crucial difference between marketing and branding with a brilliantly simple analogy: "Marketing is asking a girl out. Branding is what makes her say yes." He introduces his BRAND framework—Belief, Roadmap, Appearance, Network, and Drive—offering practical wisdom for anyone looking to build something meaningful.

Whether you're contemplating leaving your 9-to-5, struggling to scale your business, or simply seeking clarity on your professional path, this episode delivers actionable insights that could transform how you approach work and life. As Rod powerfully states, "Everybody wants to get a new brand made, but nobody wants to be made brand new."

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www.rodbrinson.com   IG: @rod.brinson

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've never been in that position 20 plus years,
made it through all type oflayoffs and acquisitions and
everything.
Until that day.
That was God, oh for sure.
When I first got laid off, Iwent to her and I said this is
what I'm going to do.
She immediately I support you athousand percent.
There you go, go for it.
You got this.
I believe in you right.
So I felt that support and Iknow what it does to a man Like

(00:21):
it shot me through the roof.
Yeah, I'm talking.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I hit the ground running you don't need no Viagra
or nothing after that.
No Seattle, nothing, nothing.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
To be fair, I didn't need it before.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Whether you are working a nine to five, have a
side hustle or a full-blownentrepreneur.
This episode is for you.
But before we go into that, Ihave a huge shout out to my
recording studio, prep and Shed.
That's P-R-E-P-A-N-D-S-H-E-DcomPrep and Shed If you're a

(00:57):
recording artist traveling inthe Atlanta metro area or a
resident musician, there isabsolutely no better place for
rehearsals.
I've been recording many of mypodcast episodes in their living
room style podcast studio.
They have amazing equipmenthigh tech.
The sound quality isunbelievable.
Their professionalism,accommodations and service are

(01:21):
second to none.
So visit their website Again.
That's prepandshedcom.
Maybe you're looking to recordyour own podcast and you don't
want to navigate through havingto buy equipment, learning how
to use it all.
Just give them a call and checkthem out Now.
We've got a very special episodefor you guys today Leon Cohen,

(01:43):
my boy Willie Nash and myself.
Your host, stefan.
Welcome Rod Brinson, amarketing and branding expert.
If you're stuck in yourbusiness, struggling to take
that next step, struggling toscale, or you're just not sure
running your own business issomething you should even do,

(02:03):
this episode is definitely foryou If you want your freedom
from the daily grind.
Listen through the very end andshare this episode with a
friend and ask them to follow aswell.
This is one conversation thatwill absolutely change your life
.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to.

(02:23):
It Sounds good, all right, sowe got in the house with us

(02:49):
today.
We got Leon.
Welcome back to the pod brother, thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
You're always glad to jump on and exchange ideas with
good brothers, yeah yeah, it'sbeen a second.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's been a second Willie.
Welcome back, bro.
Big Will, big chill.
Hey, happy to be here, man, youawake bro.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm here.
I am in the land of the living.
Don't look like it, but I'mhere.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, I know it's early man and for the first time
on the pod, I want to welcomeRod Rod.
Why don't you tell us your name, brother?
Tell us what you do.
I'm super interested in whatyou.

(03:29):
I feel like you can bring awhole lot to the table, man, so
yeah, first of all, thank youfor having me.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
I appreciate the invite, but my name is Rod
Brinson.
I'm the brand strategist.
My focus is making sure peopleare tapped into what makes them
unique in the world.
You know why are they here,what makes them distinct?
We are all on the same rockfloating around the sun.
We're not here to just work a40-hour job a week and pay our
bills.
You said it on the head.

(03:56):
Like you said, maybe, though,but I disagree.
I think it's definitely.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Right, because I think about so many people that
I talk to.
They'll say I do want this 9 to5.
Being in business for myself isnot for me, you know, just like
I'm in sales, right.
So I've always talked to peoplewhere I try to sell them on
their own dream, pursuing theirown thing, and people push back
because sometimes people feellike you're shitting on their 9
to 5 just because you gotsomething else.

(04:21):
You're in business for yourself.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, no for sure, like.
You got something else.
You're in business for yourself?
Yeah, no for sure, like andthat's a great point is, too
often people pair the twoagainst one another.
Right, my version is it doesn'tmatter who you are, you have a
brand, whether you are livingthat brand out by default or by
design.
So if you're working a nine tofive and you're pursuing the
career, you're just followingwhat your parents told you to do

(04:43):
.
You went to college and gotthat degree and it's like you're
not even doing anything in thatfield.
What ends up happening is therat race takes over.
So now you haveresponsibilities, you have kids,
you have dreams that you wantto attain, and the only way to
get that is just nine to five.
So I look at it like threedifferent lanes.
You have the entrepreneur whojust wants to do business for

(05:04):
himself or herself.
You have the person who workscorporate, and they're perfectly
fine with that.
They want to, you know, managepeople and climb the leadership
ladder, no problem.
But then you have that thirdperson who's stuck in between
and they don't know how tonavigate and they feel
unfulfilled.
That's the person that I'mtalking to when I say that.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Steph knows, I'm a mentor, so one of our classes
that we train students in isentrepreneurship.
I used to actually teachentrepreneurship at the high
school level and I tell thosestudents I said you're going to
fit in one or two boxes in thisworld.
You're either going to beworking for yourself or you're
going to be working for somebody.
There's really no in between.
I said to a lot of them.

(05:45):
I said you just got to decidewhat side of the table you want
to be on.
But that working for you side isa lot different, because the
effort you put in when you'reworking for somebody else is
much different than whensomebody's working for you.
I said so when you, if you dodecide to take a job and go and
work for somebody, you need totake that job and look at it and
think about it.
As, in effort I'm giving rightnow for this other person, would

(06:05):
I give that same effort if Iwere working for myself?
And if the answer is no, thenyou either need to step up your
production or go and findanother job, Because if you
shortchanging this person that'sactually giving you a check,
then you would be upset ifsomebody was doing that to you.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
I guess that's the moral view, but I have to say,
most people the effort that Iput in for me is going to be
more than I put in for anyoneelse 100%.
You know what I mean and I don'teven think that I'm
shortchanging someone.
I think that my approach is Iwork, I'll do what I need to do,
and you know me, I'mcompetitive.
Whatever the metrics boards,the KPIs and all that, I want to
beat the next guy, but at theend of the day, I can go two or

(06:44):
three days without sleep becauseI'm working on my business.
I'm not doing that for you.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Okay, so I've known you in various capacities.
Yes, sir, I've known you as asales rep, known you as a
manager, known you as anentrepreneur.
Yeah, so the paradigm where youmoved from sales rep to sales
manager was different, becausenow you had people that were
under your command under yourcharge, my stewardship yeah,

(07:09):
right, because now you havepeople that you're overseeing
and when they were slacking off,you took it personally, because
it's like, wait a minute, whyare you doing this on my team,
where if you did that forsomebody else, you might have
been okay with it, but moretimes than not, your work ethic
would have been a little bitdifferent from theirs.
So that's the shift that I'mtalking about, right, the people

(07:30):
who go into an office and ittakes them the first two hours
to start working in aneight-hour day, when you really
take that eight hours and you'reworking four, because between
your break yes, you got yourlunch break, your water cooler
break and then your too manybreaks yeah, by the time you get
out of work and then when youthrow the commute in there,
you're really only working fourhours.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Now I see what you're saying, Rod.
What does it take for someoneto kind of go from understanding
that there is a need for themto take matters into their own
hands?
I've often heard the referenceto when you work for someone
else, it means that they arepaying you to give up on your
dream.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Now, that's quite accurate.
But, to be fair, some peopledon't have a dream Right.
Some people have no aspirationto do anything outside of what
they're doing, and what I meanby that is like they're
comfortable and content with thelife that they have.
But to piggyback on a subjectyou guys were talking about, the
reality is, even if a person isgiven 110 percent or 60 percent

(08:28):
, or whatever it is, to acorporation or to a manager,
they're still doing it from aself-driven interest.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
And the only reason they can't do 110 percent is
because their heart is not tiedto it.
They're just doing it tosurvive and to go out and party
and buy a car or whatever it isthey're trying to attain survive
and to go out and party and buya car or whatever it is they're
trying to attain.
The difference between theperson who desires to be outside
of that and the person whodoesn't is that person should
immediately do research, spendsome time meditating, prayer and
walking whatever you need to doto figure out what that lane is

(08:58):
, and don't base it off of howmuch money you can make or what
you saw somebody else do.
It needs to be solely based offof what you desire.
Yeah, because your desire isgoing to drive you past those
walls of adversity and hardshipwhen they come.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, I was listening to another podcast, a friend of
mine, casey.
He's got a pretty dope podcast.
It talks about business andit's called Case Studies.
So quick shout out to him.
He talks about this in terms ofculture and knowing your why
and knowing what you want toaccomplish.
Let's say you're doing it, themoney's coming in and you
stripped that away and you gotnothing left.
That culture and that initialreason for doing it is all you

(09:37):
have.
Would you still do it?
Then you know people ask me thesame thing about this podcast.
It goes you're not making anymoney.
Would you do it?
I think these conversations areabsolutely necessary.
I don't care how many listenersthere are, they are helping
somebody out For sure.
So I would absolutely do it.
Willie, you run an insuranceagency.
I remember the shift.
I remember the conversations.

(09:57):
You know you were at acrossroad at some point, or
rather at a fork in the roadright, where it was either stay
corporate or go all in.
How did you make thattransition and just focus on
your own business?

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Well, it was really easy for me.
I don't like being told what todo.
Even as a kid, you know, I'vealways had the entrepreneurial
spirit to go out and make my ownmoney.
So I always felt that thecorporate world working for
somebody was just a formality orsomething that I had to go
through until I was ready to dowhat I wanted to do.
So for me, it was relativelyeasy for me to just step out

(10:33):
there and do it.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
I know both of you guys, I mean all three of us, us
, all four of us.
Rather, we know it, we see it.
People are totally risk averse.
Just like I can't take a chance, I can't fall on not having a
guaranteed paycheck this comingFriday.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, I was never like that, because I mean the
money that I make now, if I wasin the corporate I wouldn't be
making that, you know, because,like y'all were just saying,
they bring you in and hire youso you can't follow your dreams
and your aspiration.
They give just enough to beable to take care of your bills
and do the normal stuff.
I've always wanted to do thingsthat was outside of the norm.

(11:12):
I wanted the nice house, thecars, the nice bank account.
I wanted to.
When I look at my bank accountI know that I did that for real,
for real.
I came out the mud with it.
I've always had that mentalityto kind of go the direction that
I want to go.
And everybody doesn't feel thatway.
Like my wife, she's thecorporate, she knows where she's

(11:32):
getting paid, she likes thatamount and she's okay with it.
I'm not.
I think I would just wrapped alittle bit different and built a
little bit different.
She's getting paid, she likesthat amount and she's okay with
it.
I'm not Right.
I think I would just wrap it alittle bit different and build
it a little bit different whenit comes to the money.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
I want to control it If I want to come in my check, I
go ahead and I make the comma.
If I want a low week, I mean, Ilike to control it myself.
Yeah, now I heard what you said.
If I want a comma in my check,I thought you said if I want to
come in my check.
Yeah, I was like are you tryingto do what to your check Brahma
?

Speaker 4 (12:01):
I was like what kind of I'm going to need you to
listen a little bit better, heyyou heard him.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
He was talking about you.
I heard it.
You heard what I heard?

Speaker 4 (12:10):
No, no, no, I heard comma.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Nah, I said I'm glad you listened a little bit If I
want to come on my check.
I want to be able to do that,because that's what I want to do
and I can do it.
You earned it, I earned it.
You know I can do what I wantto do it.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
We're taking a dramatic turn.
Yeah, let's go back.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
That's an interesting point, though, and I want to
make this clear.
Like I was the opposite I wasgood with the corporate, I was
good with the non-profit, I wascomfortable, and your background
is marketing.
So it's multifaceted.
But I've always had mymarketing agency, because I'm
just a creative by nature and sopeople ask me to do stuff and
it went from flyers to websitesto videography, you name it, and

(12:50):
so it was always a side hustle.
It was always extra means tomake sure it ends mean, but my
focus was corporate.
I was good with that and I wasclimbing a ladder doing my thing
, but it just kept festering tothe point where I couldn't
ignore it anymore.
It was starting to compete andit's part-time so I'm like, okay
, if I really put myself intothis, I wonder what could happen

(13:14):
.
In the same breath, over hereI'm having to deal with all the
subliminal hardships and racismand people looking at me weird
and treating me funny, and Ihave to put on.
When I didn't have to do thatin my business, that
uncomfortableness of having tostep outside of who I know
myself to be was enough to makeme say I don't want to do this,

(13:35):
but I still didn't make the jump.
Why say I don't want to do this, but I still didn't make the
jump?

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Why?
Obviously, you were makingmoney, you were comfortable, you
got bills to pay, right?
Did you have a family at thetime?
For sure, it's very difficultto make that jump man.
You'll sit there and just like,put up with a lot of shit, but
I had all the evidence.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
It wasn't a faith journey for me.
I knew what the numbers were.
I could forecast three monthsout Like it was that position.
The reason I didn't make thejump is because I was too
comfortable, and thatcomfortability is a drug, you
know.
It's like they call it goldenhandcuffs.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
It's gold, it's shiny , but I can't do nothing.
I'm right here, right, right.
And so I remember specificallyJanuary 2023, I basically kind
of tested God.
I'm right here, right, right.
And so I remember specificallyJanuary 2023, I basically kind
of tested God.
I'm like all right, if you wantme to do this, then I need to
hit this number by December.
Well, I didn't look at mynumbers until November and it
was already superseding thatnumber and I was like dang it.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
That was on the sign.
That was like a clear oh no, itwas very clear.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, in so many different ways, but did you work
towards?

Speaker 2 (14:38):
that number I did for sure.
So it was intentional.
You wanted it anyway, so youwas going to make it happen.
There are certain things that Iwant and I can control the
things that I want and I can getit.
I'm going to work to get it.
When you're working for someone, that ambition for me, it was
never there, because when I comein and you tell me what time I

(14:59):
got to be there, you tell mewhat time I got to take a break.
You tell me what time I got togo to lunch, then you tell me
what time I got to clock out.
I've always had an issue withthat.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I'm over here like an hiring manager.
I'm like, well then, shit, sayyour ass.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Don't apply God damn but see, it was one of those
things where you had you know, Igrew up with the parents that
say go to school Verytraditional Get a good job, get
a good job.
So when I got into sales andentrepreneurship, my mom like
you need to go get a job A realjob.
People not buying nothing, willthey?
Yeah, but sales is one of themost lucrative businesses out

(15:38):
there.
You just have to make sure thatyou're selling the right
product or solving a need.
There you go.
If you get into anentrepreneurship where you're
servicing and the need is there,you just got to get out and
market yourself and becomeattractive in that arena.
You made that happen becausethat's what you wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
The thing that made me hit it was tied to the nine
to five as well.
So and this is one thing that Iwill say like I was not one of
those guys who's going to showup for the meeting and pay
attention and be ready to go.
I was the guy you would discussa minute ago, leon, but I
always tied what I wanted towhat I was doing.
And what I wanted wassustainability, freedom, the

(16:19):
ability to go on vacation andall of these other things tied
to me doing what I needed to doin my 95.
And so it allowed me to show upon time, clock out, clock in,
eat lunch.
I didn't mind stepping in lineand being a soldier in that way,
so long as my goal was beingaccomplished at the end of the
day.
But everybody has a line thatgets crossed at a certain point

(16:41):
where it's like, okay, nowyou're pushing too far.
And for me it was somebodytrying to steal my check.
I was being paid on commissionto do some extra stuff.
I did some extra stuff, workedthe deal for six months.
The day we're getting ready toclose the deal, he tries to
swoop under me behind the doorand swap my name for his name,
literally, and the guy who wasresponsible for changing the

(17:05):
names out was like hey, bro, didyou approve this?
I'm like no.
So I pinged the guy hey, what'sthis about?
He basically told me well, I'mjust trying to get paid on that.
I said, oh, you bought enoughto admit it.
All right, cool.
Well, yeah, let's go ahead andnot do that.
He was like well, I'm going totake this to my manager.
I ain't even going to holdy'all the six months path to
fighting that led to me being ina room with people that didn't

(17:27):
look like me standing up formyself, when nobody was,
including my manager, who toldme hey, rod, since you did
majority of the work, we'regoing to give you two-thirds of
the money and we're going togive him one-third.
I said by majority, do you meanall of the work?
Because I did all of the work.
Those type of little micropieces added up, they compound

(17:51):
to make you say who am I?
Is this it?
Is this what I should be doing?
Because I don't feel like Ishould have to fight this fight.
Entrepreneurship changes that.
That's right Now.
You don't have to deal withanything you don't want to deal
with Now.
It has consequences because youknow your customers become your
boss.
That's true, you know you talkabout working hard for you.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Say that again.
You don't have people think Idon't have a boss.
Yeah, you do.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
Your customers.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
treat them right, Take care of them, and I've been
talking about vacations.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Vacations are different because you can take
better vacations.
They're just not as long whenyou're working for yourself,
because they can't be.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
No, and they're not the same, because you're not
truly off, you're notdisconnected.
Yeah, but I will say, man, I'velearned how to master that
being truly off.
It takes a while to get there,but it only takes a while if you
choose to take a while to getthere.
But it only takes a while.
If you choose to take a while,gotcha.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
And you teach that stuff?
Oh for sure, let's get intothat a little bit, because
obviously this is something thatI heard.
Oh God, I can't remember hisname, but he, this African,
south African dude, oh Vusi.
Okay, what he was saying is, ifyou can't walk away from the
business from 30 to 60 days andit's still in business, then you
are not an entrepreneur, you'reself-employed.

(18:58):
That matters, because right now, like whatever I got going on,
if I walk away, I make no moneyand everything falls apart.
So how did you get it to thepoint to where you can walk away
, take a vacation and you comeback to a business that's still
standing?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
The same way, I got it to a point where it was
competing with my full-time jobAll right.
Talk to us about that First andforemost book recommendation
changed my life.
It's called the Miracle Morning.
It's not religious-based, it'sprimarily just talking about how
you spend your day and yourhours and your time and taking
advantage of it.
So after reading that book, Istarted getting up at five

(19:36):
o'clock in the morning every day, including the weekends, and so
I would work my business.
But I wouldn't work in thebusiness, I would work on the
business.
So I would just strategize andcome up with different ways to
do things for three hours everyday.
Imagine that.
Imagine the compounded interestof just thinking through things
.
Eventually, you're going to getto a space where you know it

(19:57):
left and right.
Right, but not just knowing it,knowing how.
And so after three months 90days specifically I thought I
would have some kind of masterplan on how to scale and lay it
all out.
And I didn't.
But stepping back from it andtaking some time off from doing
the strategy, it clicked.
It's almost like trying to findsome keys.

(20:18):
You run around the housefrantic, you're late, you can't
find them.
You sit down on the couch andthey're like right there.
It's like man, oh, they're inyour pocket.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
I didn't know these keys were here.
You had it all along.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
No, I'd had it all along, but I needed to do the
running around to get thefatigue and the endurance
necessary from a thought processto be able to think through
what it takes to figure it out.
So the bottom line is I figuredout that in order to grow, I
had to be willing to break bread.
What do I mean by that?

(20:49):
Yeah, that's what I was asking.
Let's say I get a website deal.
I can build a website in three,four weeks $3,000 job.
Instead of me building it,pocketing all of that money, why
don't I hire a web designer,pay him or her $1,500, save my
time, use that time to go outand find somebody else to do a
website for while that websiteis being built.

(21:10):
Now I'm pocketing $2,000 or$1,500 without doing anything.
You multiply it over with logosand videography.
Before you know it, you have a14-member team, you're making
$150,000 a year part-time andyou're wondering if you should
quit your job.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
You can stop wondering at that point.
Shit Ain't no where in theworld I'd go.
So what do we call it?
I'm going to call it the forlack of a better phrase the ugly
duckling face.
There's a segment of yourjourney to where it's man,
you're struggling, right?
So quitting the job is superhard because when you first

(21:47):
start that journey which is whynot everyone's an entrepreneur,
right?
Not all of us are working forourselves and doing whatever.
Because it's super hard.
At the end of the day, it issales.
Doesn't matter what you right,whether it's a service or a
business.
You're selling a productyourself or a solution.
And it's hard because they'renot just banging down your door,
right?
It'd be great if they were, butthat's not what's happening,

(22:08):
right?
So how do you survive thattransition and what keeps you
going?

Speaker 4 (22:13):
For me, mine was not necessarily customer-based
because you know I was doing therenovations part, so once I
finished the house I had to havean agent come in and actually
sell the house.
So I wasn't in control of thecustomer base, I was just in
control of the product.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
And it's scary because you're sitting on an
investment.
You spent money buying it.
You spent money fixing thishouse.
You're paying a mortgage on it.
It's got to sell.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Yeah.
So you know, I got through thefirst five and had an accident,
got hurt and about six or sevenmonths I couldn't do anything to
anything with the business,which forced me back into the
work world because I had to feedmy family, Right?
Would I do things differently?
No, because the first five soldvery easily.

(22:58):
But it all depends on thebusiness, is what I would say.
Based on what we did, we weremore customer driven and I hated
that side of it.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
You and.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
I work together.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
I hate it to depend on someone's whim, moods and
bullshit.
Yeah, and it wasn't always asingular customer, it was family
unit.
You sold one person andsomebody else comes in and
pisses on the dream and then allof a sudden it's just like well
, I want to do it, but my wifedon't.
So you know I ain't pissing heroff, or my husband don't want

(23:28):
to do it.
He said no.
So I got tired of that part.
Yeah, I got tired of that partof it.
And I got tired of managingpeople.
Right, because managing peopleto me is like adult babysitting.
Yeah, I don't want to babysit achild, let alone babysit an
adult.
So that part of it is what tookme away from the management
piece and which took me awayfrom sales altogether.

(23:50):
What I wanted to do was to beable to and that's what I was
doing was to find a product, letsomebody else do the sales
piece of it and just manage theproduct, which was much easier,
gotcha.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
What about you guys?
Ugly duckling face?
How do you survive that?
How do you overcome that?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well for me— Because there's a section to where it
sucked for a while.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, big time.
You know support, you knowfamily support.
I always have to go back to mywife.
She was very instrumentalgetting to where I am now
because early on coming toAtlanta, I'm originally from
Memphis, so I've only been herein Georgia 10 years, Coming to a

(24:27):
brand new state transferredwith ADT.
The market was different hereso I said I have to do something
.
I can't survive not bringinganything in.
So my wife gave me theopportunity to start the
insurance business.
Georgia was just so much largerthan Memphis.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Listen, not just Georgia, you could just pick any
old city.
You know, Douglasville islarger than Memphis city.
You know Douglasville.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
I mean it was crazy trying to maneuver and trying to
understand the mindset and thepeople here in Georgia.
It's a different mentality.
I had to get used to that.
I had to get used to thetraffic I had to get used to.
I was already fine with goingto people's houses, but the
market that I'm in senior marketyou get to see some really
horrible conditions.

(25:18):
You're like man, how do peoplelive like this?
But I'm going into those housesRight and going back to what my
wife and the support systemthat you have to have to start a
business.
That was very instrumental forme, yeah.
But once I got here and Istarted building relationships,
I started meeting people.
I started when I was going tothese clients' houses.

(25:39):
It was not just to go sell thelife insurance.
I'm looking for people topartner with Because once I
understood this business, thecompany that I'm partnering with
if you go out and you showsomebody how to do what you do,
they follow you.
So I just started duplicatingthat going out, finding people
who can do what I do Right orhave the desire to do what I did

(26:01):
, and I taught them, trainedthem on what to do.
Now, 25, 35 agents doing what Ido, yeah.
So I mean it was some months,man, or some weeks.
I mean literally no money, none.
Sometimes I come home on arough day I just lay my head and
my wife lay up and tears comedown my head.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
I'm just like man, because you know you're trying,
I know.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
I mean I would leave 5, 6 o'clock in the morning to
be on the other end of Georgiaby 9 o'clock and then sometimes
I would come home 12, 1 o'clockin the morning not making a sale
.
It was very, very hard.
So when I look at where I amnow and sometimes my wife had to
remind me, hey, you're doinggood, you know, because I'm
still not where I want to be,because I know there's so much

(26:45):
more out there for me to do,according to your own standards,
by the way.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Right, I see where you are, bro.
You're doing fantastic.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Man, but I just I'm not happy, I'm not satisfied
with where I am, because I knowthat it's so much better.
But it was tough, it was reallytough.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
That's why most people quit Brack.
Not too many people are cut outto go work.
Leave your house at 5 o'clockone morning, come back the next
day, because you come back at 1o'clock the next day, I mean
I've slept in Walmart parkinglots.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
I go to hotels, not the nice hotels.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
You know it was the ones Super 8.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
Man Motel 6.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Motel 6, $30, $40 a night, you know, and you can't
go to sleep because peopleoutside playing music loud,
somebody a woman, a man outthere arguing and fighting.
But I had to do it and make nomoney, and make no money.
But my desire to not be toldwhat to do was that great that I
was like I'm going to toughthis out.
I want to have control of mymoney.
I want to have control over mytime.
So if I don't work for a month,literally nothing changes for

(27:51):
me.
That money still comes in, nomatter what, Now yeah.
Because I went through the uglyduckling phase of that to now
sitting here.
I'm making money right nowsitting here talking to y'all.
I was looking at my phone.
One of my agents just madethree sales.
I get paid off of that.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah Well, you said the important part too was the
family support.
If you don't have the familysupport, it's impossible.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
I was going to say it's virtually impossible, I'm
not going to even say yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
the only way that it's not impossible is that you
get rid of the family, I meanfor real, I mean.
And there's a lot of men andwomen that have walked away from
family because their familydidn't support their dream.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
I have a different opinion.
Opinion on that.
And it's not like completelydifferent, because I agree to it
to some degree.
But family supporting you neverlooks how you imagine it would.
But what happens when they aredipping a toe in and barely
supporting?
Or they start out supportingbut then, when money ain't
showing up, they start backingup.
You have to have what you'redoing tied to something bigger

(28:54):
than your family supporting you,otherwise you're going to quit
anyway.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
Well, I think what me and Willie are talking about in
that standpoint is a wife.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Right, we're not talking about like you know my
cousins or uncles, or your momand dad.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
I'm still on the same page.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Because that getting into an argument with a wife
about hey, we ain't got no moneycoming in, hey, what are you
doing about?
Hey, we ain't got no moneycoming in, hey, what are you
doing?
That is enough to defocus youto the point to where you're
like okay, is it worth losing myfamily?
Is it worth losing what webuild?
Is it worth going through achild support custody case?
Is it worth all of that toprove a point, and then, if I'm

(29:31):
wrong, on the other side of it,that it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
And to your point, brother, I'm a thousand percent
with you.
That's exactly what I mean whenthat moment happens, because
and I'm talking from experience,I've been married 16 years when
that moment happens and thewife is like how are we going to
do this, I don't know?
She's stressing because shedoesn't feel safe, she doesn't
feel secure, she doesn't knowhow things are going to line up.

(29:55):
But men have vision.
It's on us to cast that vision.
It's on us to stay strong inthe midst of the storm.
It's on us to say you know what?
We're going to figure this outtogether.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Right.
To add to that, I can only talkabout my wife and the support
that she gave.
She didn't panic.
We came up with a solutiontogether.
Okay, willie, I know this iswhat you want to do.
All right, we're going to dothis, we're going to do this and
we're going to do this.
That's the support that I'mtalking about, not just all
right, I'm going to payeverything, I'm going to do this
and do that.
You go out there and make ithappen.

(30:26):
No, we work together, right, wework together.
We put a system together how wewere going to weather this
storm.
For sure, I feel.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
If the wife don't support you in that aspect, I
probably would have to findanother wife Because you're not
willing to give up on that dream.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
No, I'm not, no, for sure.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
But this is why I'm taking a stand on this side and
planting my flag.
I think that everybody doesn'tget that support and they don't
know what direction to turn in.
And everybody can't just changetheir wife.
They want to keep their wife,but they also want to pursue
this dream.
So what do you do when youcaught in that paradigm where
the wife is not on your boardbut you still want to?

Speaker 2 (31:08):
do this.
If she's not on the board withme, I'm going to have to think
about the relationship, right,I'm going to have to think about
the relationship Right, I'mserious about it.
Because, like now, she'sthankful that she planted her
feet with me and she rolled thatride with me, because now she's
happy, she understood me, sheknew me.

(31:30):
She knew that he's going to goout and he's going to make some
happen, so she believed in me.
You know a lot of times whenthe wives, ah yeah, you need to
go do and he's going to makesome happen, so she believed in
me.
A lot of times when the wives,yeah, you need to go do this.
Sometimes they don't believe inyou.
You probably let them down acertain amount of times, or
their fathers let their mothersdown, so this is what they see.
But I showed her somethingdifferent.
She knew the potential wasthere.

(31:52):
She knew that I could make somethings happen, so that's why
she supported me the way thatshe did let me say something on
that.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
So that's the important part, right, which is
you didn't say she believed inyour dream, right?
You said she believed in you,she believed in me.
Yes, yeah, and and that's thepart that I'm kind of really
talking about is that if a womanbelieves in you and my wife
actually helped me in mybusiness, my wife I would go and
find property, I fixed it upand she would stage it for me.
And she would stage it for me.

(32:18):
Unbelievable, her stagingprobably sold most of our houses
, wow, okay, she has a gift, shehas a designer's eye and it
wasn't a hard sell for herbecause the fact of what he's
saying that she believed in me,even through some failures.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
I've produced more and had more credibility through
the successes than we've hadfailures and things.
And another thing that I had todo in that I had to get
comfortable with letting herknow what was really going on on
the backside, you know.
So once she understood and Iwas open, okay, all right.
Honey production is low thismonth.
I got this this coming up.
I'm going to have to go travela little bit to go make these

(33:01):
ends meet and make some stuffhappen.
That's part of support too.
Yeah, you know I can't.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
But you got to communicate, you got to
communicate.
You have to bring her in soshe's not in the dark about the
business, right?

Speaker 2 (33:10):
I had to allow.
I even allowed her into myfinances because when we first
got married she had her money, Ihad mine.
Then we had an account where weput money in to pay things, but
we never just really knew whatthe other person had.
Once we opened that up,everything got better.
So when I say support, I meanit's like you have to be in it

(33:33):
together 110%, and when you havethat person that would be in
the trenches with you like that,it's going to elevate your
business.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
A team is always going to perform better than a
solo person for sure.
And I don't want to make thisseem like I'm not on board,
because I thousand percent agree.
I just want to add a littlecolor.
So I've been on both sides ofthat track.
When I first got laid offbecause that's what I did I
didn't walk away from the job.
God had to remove it from me,okay gotcha.
So that November, when I hitthat number the following

(34:06):
February, I got laid off.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
You still weren't going to make the jump, but
someone kicked you in your backoff the cliff.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yep, at the top of the cliff.
So I'm having lunch with CEOstraveling the country.
I'm making the most money I'veever made in my life.
Everybody in the company knowsme from a positive standpoint,
right Laid off, Wow.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I was like okay, that's the part about jobs that
I don't like.
Yeah, you take the control fromme.
Hey, we don't need you no more.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
I've never been in that position 20 plus years made
it through all type of layoffsand acquisitions and everything.
Never been on the cutting blockuntil that day.
But I thought about it for twoseconds.
I already knew what I was goingto do, so I went to my wife.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
That was God.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Which is why.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
I already knew, because he had already been
telling me.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Sometimes he removes things out of our life that we
know that we don't need.
Are you back at work?
Are you doing full-time?
Oh no.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I've been full-time for 18 months.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
On your own yeah it was February 2024.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
See there you go, don't go back.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
But to that point I would never go back.
And I told my wife the samething when I first got laid off.
I went to her and I said thisis what.
I'm going to do she immediately.
I support you a thousandpercent, leaving you right.
So I felt that support and Iknow what it does to a man like
it shot me through the roof.
Boy, I'm talking, I hit theground running.
You don't need no Viagra,nothing, nothing.

(35:31):
To be fair, I didn't need itbefore, okay, okay, okay, just
want to make that clear.
Definitely didn't need it after.
But fast forward four months.
I go to a conference.
Myron Golden in Tampa, florida,blew my mind.
Three day conference from nineto five, paid a thousand dollars

(35:53):
that's all it was a thousandbucks, that's.
That's just the ticket, that'snot the flight to the hotel.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
No, that's not what it cost today, cause you can't
get in on Myron Golden theticket.
That's not the flight to thehotel.
No, that's not what it coststoday, because you can't get in
on my own golden for no thousanddollars.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, no, he said that was his last time doing
that.
Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure, but goon so by 12 o'clock the first
day I had my money's worth andI'm not a conference kind of guy
.
From that day I knew being inthe room matters more than
anything.
That's right.
So I come home supercharged.
I mean it's almost like I gothit by some voltage that I
didn't have before, like itshifted the way I think with

(36:28):
business, entrepreneurship,branding, marketing, the whole
nine, because I'm like there'sso much more if it's not tied to
my time.
If I'm physically sitting therecreating something for somebody,
I can only do so much of thatCorrect, even if I scale out,
hire other people, it's only somuch because it's still tied to
my time.
How can I do something where,to your point, if I go on

(36:49):
vacation or hiatus for threemonths, the business continues
to go?
So all of that strategy, all ofthat time wrestling with it,
trying to figure it out, thismoment, with this conference, it
was like I'm pretty sure y'allaround my age y'all probably
seen Last Dragon when the glowstarted happening Whole
different fighter at that point.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
I think the Matrix stole that at the end.
I never made that connection,yeah.
So that moment happened for meand I realized I've been doing
this wrong the whole time.
It's just like a cosmic shift,man.
It's like I now know what Ineed to do, but I had the vision
.
My wife didn't have a vision.

(37:30):
She had a vision for themarketing agency.
She didn't have the vision forthe brand strategy.
So when I came to her with thisbrand new vision, I told her I
wanted to pay my iron, gold andtwenty seven thousand dollars to
make it happen.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
She was like boy, you know, lost your mind how much.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, that's what that's how much I thought it was
going to be.
Period, right, yeah, so that'swhere the shift in the support
happened for me and I'm likewell, no, you have to understand
.
But here's my point to you.
I didn't fight with my wife.
I made it clear to her I don'twant to move.
If you don't want to move,because we're in this together,
I'm fighting for you, more sothan I'm fighting for this dream
, and so I care about mymarriage right under God, and

(38:07):
then my kids right under that,and then my business right under
that, and people get thattwisted and those orders are out
of place.
And then that's when you sayyou know what, since you don't
support me, I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
But I got to go.
You know what, since you don'tsupport me, I'm out of here, but
I got to go.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
But but, brothers, I'm going to tell you this, and
anybody listening hear meclearly when you find yourself
in predicaments where there's atussle or there's a adversity,
there's a blockage from yougoing where you want to go, look
within first.
What can I do better?
How should I have approachedthis?
What should I do to make surethat this person gets this sale?
Because at that point my wifeis my customer.
How can I sell this to her?

(38:47):
How can I make her understandthe vision so that she can be on
board and support me?
So that journey was three, fourmonths.
So the bottom line is sheabsolutely supports me, a
thousand percent now.
But I had to understand thatthe vision didn't get given to
her, it got given to me.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
It's not the dream that she needs to believe in.
It's you, it's me, right?
So you might fall flat on yourface for two or three of those
dreams, right, and they may notwork out.
You might have differentventures, things that don't work
out, but essentially, the thingshe has to believe in is are
you the type of person who'sgoing to get up and go and do
everything that you need to do,no matter what, come home 17, 18

(39:27):
, 24 hours later with no moneyin your pocket and not give up
and not just sit on the couchand just be like, hey, well, you
know, I guess I didn't work outand, rod, so help us for people
who are in that transitionphase.
How does your business helpsome of those people and how
does your business help peoplewho are in that transition phase
?
How does your business helpsome of those people and how
does your business help people?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
who are further along the journey.
I'm going to do you one further.
I'm going to talk to the personwho's working corporate as well
, who doesn't care to doentrepreneurship.
Ok, by the way, the companythat laid me off ended up hiring
me to come speak to the company.
It's a full circle story,brother.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Oh man, Trust me, you must've walked out with your
pants unzipped.
I would've walked in like yeah,y'all see me.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
I worked hard and people saw me and I put myself
out there and I asked for theoffer and they gave it to me.
So I think it just boils downto believing in yourself and
putting in the work.
But, to answer your question, Ibelieve that our brand is tied
to our identity, who you are,who you were born, as we all
have personalities, we havesouls, we have different things

(40:29):
we desire, et cetera.
But tapping into our potentialis always a difficult thing.
If you think about sports,right, you got a player.
He's really good, naturally,but that coach can help him tap
into his full potential just bytweaking little pieces and
pointing them in the rightdirection.
Well, that's what brandstrategy is.
The problem is most peopledon't understand what branding

(40:49):
is in general.
They think it's logos, colorpalettes, marketing.
They tie the two togethersynonymously.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
I'm one of those people.
So yeah, please, because, I'lladmit it, I have no clue what
you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
So here's what.
And I'm in business and I'vebeen in business a long time.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
You know what I mean, so it just goes to show.
I'm quick to admit it.
So you can kind of help me outand help us out.
Because, yes, when I thinkbranding, I think my logo, a
website, something that tellspeople who do you think about
Tesla?
That's branding.
You're not thinking about the Tand the red color.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
You might think about Elon Musk, because personal
branding is a part of brandingas well, but branding is how
this thing makes you feel, sothat you remember it anytime
somebody brings something upthat's close to it.
Coffee.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Starbucks, Starbucks.
Because I was thinking at homeyeah, Starbucks, you're right
you might say Folgers, you mightsay Dunkin'.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
It depends on your personality and what you're
drawn to.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Well, it's like Google it's searching on the
search and then everybody sayGoogle it Right, but Google is a
, yeah, it's a, they say Googleit because it has compound word
brand name because you haveother search engines.
You got bing and you got otherones, but everybody says google
right.
Even if you're going to bing,yeah, google it right.

(42:09):
So here's.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Here's the breakdown between marketing and branding.
Marketing is simply making surethe thing that you have is
visible to others.
It doesn't mean sales.
It doesn't mean anythingoutside of that.
All you're doing is going.
I'm going to magnify this sothat you can see it, whether
that's physically or digitally.
So that's why, back in the day,it was flyers, newspaper

(42:34):
billboards.
That was the big thing.
Now that we're in this digitalspace, it's social media, email,
text message, right, but that'sall marketing is.
I have this thing.
I want to put it in front ofyou in hopes that you do
something with it.
Branding is the person actuallydeciding to make that decision
based off of how it makes themfeel.

(42:55):
So when you hear da-da-da-da-da, you automatically associate
Happy Meal, Ronald McDonald, Redand White Sign.
It pulls all of those things upbecause they branded it so much
that you know that based off ofthat sound Hamburgers period.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
I mean, you think about McDonald's.
Mcdonald's is the first namethat comes out of your mouth
when you think about a hamburgereven though you may not eat it.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yep, now here's how you bring it all home and make
it very simple for anybody.
We all guys, we got wives andstuff.
We know how this dating worldis.
Marketing is asking a girl outhey, baby girl, how you doing.
Yeah, you mind, if we you know,I want to take you to dinner.
She has the opportunity to seeyou.
Based off of what you just saidand how you presented yourself,

(43:43):
the clothes you got on thecologne, all of that is
marketing.
Branding is what's going tomake her say, yes, it's your
aura, it's your swag, it's you,it's your personality, it's how
she feels, based off of how youapproached her.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Wow Okay.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
I hope that makes sense.
It does.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, right.
So when you want to get some,is that branding, that's
branding, that's branding.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Marketing is you actually asking?
Branding is what you did the 24hours before you asked her.
You feel me Gotcha, becauseguess what, if you argued with
her, didn't take the trash out,whatever, as soon as you ask,
it's gonna be a no.
But if you did your part, shefeeling good about you and you
ask now say yes.
So it's not just sales.
Sales is like a science forsure.

(44:31):
But if the marketing ain'tright, if the branding ain't
right, it's gonna be really hardto sell.
And the very opposite.
If the marketing is right andthe branding is right, you don't
even have to sell.
They come into very opposite.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
If the marketing is right and the branding is right,
you don't even have to sell.
They come into you.
Going back to the originalquestion, here you're talking to
a person who's at corporate.
How do you help that person?
How do you help the personwho's just starting out, who's
just transitioning, and how doyou help the person who's a
little further along, like thisplace?
Here we're in this beautifulbuilding right Prep and Chet
Studios.
He's got this thing going.
How do we help a business likethat or like Willis business
that's established versus abusiness like mine?

(45:05):
I'm in talks with investorswhere I want to launch this
thing in about a month or two.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
I'll cover all three, but I'll land on the last one
with the transition, where it'skind of like I'm out here but
I'm trying to figure it out.
Yeah, corporate branding is nodifferent than entrepreneur
branding, but it's within aspace for that organization.
So you're no longer marketingand branding in hopes that you

(45:30):
get clients to come in.
You're marketing and brandingso that management looks at you
in a certain way or that whenopportunities come, they think
about you.
Da-da-da-da-da.
You know what I mean, right?
Because guess whatOpportunities are going to come.
Who's the first person come tomind?
This person who's been brandinghimself in the right way, he's
showing up on time Anytime.
I ask him to work extra.

(45:50):
Those things that you don'twant to do are your brand.
I'm not saying you have toshuck and jive or tap dance, I'm
just simply saying decide whatyou want and then go for it.
The person who is full-timeentrepreneur and this kind of
goes to the person in transitiontoo.
I have this framework calledbrand, pun intended, the B is

(46:10):
for belief.
I believe that everythingstarts with your mindset.
If you don't have the rightmindset as an entrepreneur, like
you had the mindset day one,willie.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
It was just like I'm going to do this.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
It's so many different.
With or without you, but I'mglad, I'm glad you're here, yeah
, yeah, so that mindset is keyto everything and it's it's so
deep I won't even go into it now.
The R is for roadmap If youdon't know where you're going,
where you came from, what thestrategy is to get there, the
goals, the forecasting, yournumbers.
You have to know what's goingon in order to go where you're

(46:47):
trying to get.
And then the A is forappearance Highly overrated, but
highly underrated.
How you show up in the roommatters.
How you dress your hair, all ofthat stuff that I used to not
care about I care about greatlynow because I know it makes a
big difference.
I always wanted people to justaccept me for who I am, but they
have to get to know who I amand the first impression I give

(47:09):
them is going to make themdecide if they want to get to
know me.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
We're visual creatures.
People can see your soul.
When you walk in and see yourintegrity, they see you.
So that's my point I integrity.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
They see you.
So that's my point.
I thought it was that only, butit's everything.
It's your outward and inwardappearance.
The N is for network.
Your network is your net worth,and if you're not connected to
people, if you're not just outhere to serve somebody other
than yourself, you're going tofind yourself by yourself.
So you have to connect withother people, be willing to
serve them, find out how you canhelp them and your network will

(47:43):
literally speak for you.
I just landed somebody yesterdayto speak at my in-person event.
I looked up at this lady likeman, I would love to work with
her one day.
As soon as I connected with her, she was like oh, I heard about
you.
You're connected to this personbecause I've been networking,
yeah, all right, and so I landedthat deal.
This person because I've beennetworking, yeah, all right, and
so I landed that deal.

(48:04):
By the way, so the D is fordrive.
That's the last piece.
If you don't have drive againas soon as that wall hits
because that wall is going tocome it's going to test whether
or not you truly want this.
Is this what you want?
Because if you want it, you'regoing to go after it, and if you
don't, you're going to quit.
So I don't know if thatexplains it, but the bottom line
is that person that's intransition or doing this thing

(48:24):
full time, you got to go all in.
There's no halfway.
You can't expect to get amillion dollars with a $10
marketing plan.
But here's the problem.
Everybody wants to get a newbrand made, but nobody wants to
be made brand new.
That part.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Yeah, yeah, we got to rewind that a couple of times.
That part yeah, everyone getsto the point to where they're
seriously tested to see whetheror not they have what it takes.
They have the gumption toactually take it past that phase
of this sucks.
This is hard.
I want to quit.
You know they don't want toembrace the suck.
They got to get past that point, so I know that it happens.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
So what about?
How do you help the person thatwants to do both right, the
person that don't want to leavetheir full-time job?
They just want a secondarystream of income or secondary
hustle.
They're not all in on thebusiness.
It's something that they'regood at, but it's a secondary
interest and not a passion.
Is that something that youcould brand and help?

Speaker 1 (49:22):
I mean, yeah for sure .
But you know, a divided mind isa divided house, like it's only
so much you can do when you'renot all in.
So when you said you startedoff, you said how do you help
the person that wants to do both?
Well, if they want to do both,then they're going to have to do
both with the same velocity.
But if they don't want to doboth and they just want to make

(49:44):
some extra money, then that'sfine.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
That's the person I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
But guess what?
You can market it and brand itto death and put it in front of
people and try to get it to sell, but they're going to see right
through it.
I can talk to you until I'm bluein the face about building a
website, but if I don't presentmyself properly, if I'm halfway
in, you're going to feel it,You're going to sense it, You're
going to be like man, this guydon't know what he's talking
about.
So it's hard to truly pushsomething that you don't really

(50:10):
want to push yourself.
So my point to you is this Iwould challenge that person to
make a decision.
Either you are okay with thismaking whatever it makes,
whenever it makes it, and you'renot going to put no money time
into it in terms of marketing it.
Or you can say you know what Iwant to do both of these with
the same amount of zeal and seewhat I can do with it.
And when you make that decision, then you've got to have three

(50:30):
jobs.
You've got to have a five toeight working your business.
You have to have an eight tofive working your job and you
have to have a five to eightworking your business.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
And Leon are you referring to?
So I'm referring to my wife.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
No, no, not a person.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
He's like fine you got me Cut that part.
Yeah, yeah, you got it so.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I guess the real question is this they have a
side hustle, they have a regularnine to five.
But if the side hustle, theyhave a regular nine to five.
But if the side hustle startedmaking as much or more, would
they quit that nine to five?
Or they really love to do bothstill?

Speaker 4 (51:07):
No.
So this is the person I'mtalking about, right, the person
that's comfortable and happywith the nine to five.
They got to have a check, butthey have a talent that they
know that they can make moneyoff of, and this extra money
just gives them another streamof income, like everybody's
always talking about.
Oh, you need multiple streamsof income.
Multiple streams of income.
Sure, they just want thissecondary stream of income to do

(51:27):
the other things that the otherjob either want to afford them
to do, or it's just extra thatthey can go and just have
vacation, fool around with.
You know, maybe they got achild in college.
They want to send some extramoney.
It's not their be all and endall, but they just want enough
customers to keep them busy tomake a little bit of money on
the side.
It's just side money.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
I want to jump in real quick and say this, and
please just keep in mind whatyou're about to say.
So, for example, for me, right,multiple streams of income
means something a little bitdifferent, in the sense that I
may have a site gig where Istill kind of do alarm and solar
sales.
I'm not chasing it.
But if it comes my way I'mhappy to go do it right, but I'm
not chasing it.
It's not a passion for me.
The business that I'm going tobe starting here soon, that I
already have a plan for that I'mtalking to investors about,

(52:09):
that's a passion for me.
I'm not quitting my nine tofive yet.
You know I'm managing a salesteam, et cetera.
I guarantee you the half secondsecond that my business matches
my income.
I'm so fucking gone bro.
It's not even funny, becausethen I can take all of that
effort because I'm still notdoing it half-ass.
People are under my stewardship.

(52:30):
I'm responsible for them, soI'm giving them a lot of my time
.
I'm taking text messages, I'mworking.
Tomorrow it's Labor Day, butI'm going to be out in the field
with reps because they need myhelp.
I don't want to be doing that.
I just don't want to put myfamily at risk, and if I was
single it would be different.
So I could jump into thisbusiness that I know will not
show me any revenue for thefirst six months.
So because of that, I'm beingsensible about things and I'm

(52:53):
going to approach it a certainway.
But the second that revenuestarts to come in, and I
clockwork because I believe init 100%, it's just one of those
businesses that I can't believedoesn't exist yet.
And if it does, it's not beingdone right.
So I'm just like, yeah, no,we're going all in here.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
So you guys answered the question in your response.
You can lie with your words,but your energy is going to tell
the truth every time, rightwhen you said, yeah, I got this
thing this side, you know Imight make you know.
Your energy was in that in thesame way.
You care about it, correct, andas soon as you start talking
about your business.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Man, I can start crying.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Your eyes pucked up.
You were like yo, this is it.
And it's the same thing withyour wife, right?
If it's a?
Oh, I just need to make someextra money.
You know, da, da, da da, thatenergy is gonna be in the
business as well, and so itdoesn't matter if you throw a
million dollars at marketing,she's not gonna be able to live
up to that level because shedoesn't care about it.

(53:49):
On that level, the level youcare about a thing is the level
in which you can grow it.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
So what I'll say about it is that she likes doing
that better than she would likeher normal job, but her brain
doesn't.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I might be paraphrasing, but you said
something like she needs a check, and even if this made X amount
of dollars, she would stillwant to work this job.
That will not allow the otherthing to grow past her job and
she's fine with it Ever.
She's fine with it.
Even if a millionaire just cameand was like I love what you
did, I'm going to drop this onyou right now.
She would be overwhelmed.
She would take the money, butshe would not quit her job.

(54:27):
Nope.
And so that's my point to you,and that's what it would take
for her to deliver that level itwould take.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
You need to quit your job so you can focus 100% on
this, and so then the worksuffers a little bit.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
No, it's backwards.
You need to focus 100% on thisso you can quit your job, and so
, because she won't do that,that'll never happen.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
Yeah, I think if she saw her business take off she
would consider it, but at theend of the day she still wants
to have.
Okay, I want to make sure thisis secure for retirement.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
She needs a safety net.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yes 100% because safety net is the first.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
But here's why the B in my brand framework is belief.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Because your mindset determines everything Correct.
And I'm not saying everybodyhas to have an entrepreneur
mindset, but everybody has tohave an entrepreneur mindset.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
But there's people out there that will never leave
the safety net, even if theydidn't leave it.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
They still need to have it.
Here's why because what happenswhen it leaves them?
It's stats right now that300,000 black women have lost
their job this year.
What are they doing?
Most of them are trying to getback in the workforce, which is
not accepting them.
So what are you doing?
And, when it comes down to it,how are you going to feed your
kids?
You can't just be out herehustling 24 hours a day to feed

(55:36):
them.
You have to figure out a way toformat a business that is
solidified enough that you don'thave to go work for nobody else
.
I'm passionate about it yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
I can hear it Like you said, right the way your
eyes burnt up and just yourvoice changed.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
This is coming from a guy that wanted the safety net
and didn't care about this wholeworld Never did so.
I'm speaking from a place ofboth sides.
I'm a chameleon.
I've had every inch of thisskin on me to understand every
lane.
When it comes to the fullspectrum of, I want to work for
the boss.
I want to be the boss.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
I like being the boss .
Willie just sat on the Be theboss.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
You ain't going to tell me what to do man I mean 12
years old getting my dad hislawnmower going out to cut grass
in the neighborhood?
I always want to make my own,yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
I like being my boss.
There's a difference betweenbeing the boss and being my boss
.
I'm more of a self-employed guythan an entrepreneur, because I
detest managing people.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
Well, you just don't like people, period.
Leon.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
It's not managing.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
You don't like fucking people to begin with.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Listen, he's tolerating us in this room.
I can sense it.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
It's his energy.
You know what?

Speaker 3 (56:47):
I'm saying it's one wrong thing.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
It's energy.
You know what I'm saying.
It's not one wrong thing.
I mean, it's over.
No, I have evolved still.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Leon, you are by nature an introvert and he could
get in front of a room andpublic speak and do all of that.
He's mentoring other people.
Obviously you've got the skill.
But the bottom line is likelook, I'm going to tell you once
, I'm going to tell you once,I'm going to train you, and then
leave me alone.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (57:10):
I mean Only call me if you really need me, why are
you calling me?

Speaker 3 (57:14):
You know why are you talking to me?
Why haven't you done what Itold?

Speaker 4 (57:16):
you and asked you to do?

Speaker 3 (57:18):
I'm going to train you.
well, but then if you don't doit the problem is so where he
and I differ in management styleis that I will hold your hand a
little longer.
I will repeat myself.
I will go out and show youagain where Leon's like.
I've shown you right, like youunderstood.
I asked you if you had anyquestions and you said no.
So what's the problem?
Why aren't you delivering ahundred percent?

(57:39):
So when you say I detestmanaging people, I mean
obviously I'm.
I'm, I'm making fun of you, I'mjust saying you don't like
people in general.
That's not the case, becauseyou're very, very giving and
you're very selfless.
But overall I know what youmean.
So you'd rather be in businessfor yourself, self-employed, and
not be an entrepreneur, becauseyou're right, if you have
employees and you have otherpeople, you have to rely on them

(58:00):
to deliver.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Like what you're going through tomorrow,
tomorrow's Labor Day you shouldbe chilling withoring.
Yeah, having a drink, butinstead you have to handhold
somebody that's going out for asale.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
I no longer desire to do that.
My family time has to be myfamily time.
I don't give a damn what yougot going on.
You better start feeling andlearning how to sell between
holidays, because you're notgoing to call me on the holidays
and take my time up on a mightbe.

(58:32):
Well, I think I got this sale.
No, you are you.
Are you wrapping up the sale?
Are they cutting us a checkbecause other than that, this
can wait till tuesday?
Yeah, you know, I mean for real.
I mean I understand you got toget it.
So if you got to get it thatbad, you need to go get it on
your own and just let me kind ofhelp you on tuesday.
Close that deal you know, I meanfor real because my daughter
put everything in perspectivefor me when I had her right.
You only get so many familydays before everybody is going

(58:57):
off their own way right Now.
I told you this on anotherpodcast.
From the time I was born untilI was 16 years old, my dad
traveled four days a week out oftown, so we were together part
of Friday, all of Saturday.
I'm back home on Sunday.
He back on the road, 18 yearsold.
I'm packing up my car, gettingready to come to college, and
he's like where are you going?

(59:18):
I said I leave for college thisweek.
He was like what you mean?
It's not September yet.
I was like remember, I'm goingto the early college deal and
I'm not coming back.
And he said these exact words.
He said damn, I missed it,which meant that I missed your
entire childhood, your entirechildhood.
I looked up one day.
You was a little boy and Ithought that was going to be

(59:39):
years and years and years.
And now I blinked and you a man.
I promised myself that I wouldnot do that with my daughter,
and I have not.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
This time next year she'll be a freshman in college.
Don't know where she's going tobe, but it probably will be
outside of Georgia.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
And you won't have that, you won't have to say that
I won't.
That's a lot of stuff.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Leon, I won't have to say that, and a lot of that is
because I got out of sales andmanagement Having to carry
people or drag them to a place,like you said, where they don't
know where the destination is tobegin with.
Like you said, where they don'tknow where the destination is
to begin with, they just outhere trying something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
That's what's important for a lot of people.
They just don't know what to do.
So that's why I imploreeverybody to have the
entrepreneur mindset, becauseyou never know when you're going
to have to pull on it, and it'sbetter to start from level 11
than level 1.
That's where you come in Period.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Yeah, so leave us with three golden nuggets.
We can't give away thestrategies for free, right?
For that, they need to go toyour website, they need to go to
follow you on Instagram andwe'll get the socials here in a
second.
And people have to pay to be inthe room.
I think that's where a lot ofpeople are missing out, because
they don't really understandwhat that means, and there's so
many fake Googlers out there.

(01:00:44):
You know, hey, send me $1,000,and I'll teach you how to do
this.
And all you did was spend$1,000 to kind of hear some
regurgitated cliches.
You know you got to get up at 5o'clock in the morning.
You got to do this because youknow, every time I sit to do it.
Well, do you even understandwhat's going on, right?
But I know you can't give awayall the sauce right now.
But what three things can youleave us with?

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Okay, on the spot, I got you.
No, I got you.
First and foremost, I want toaddress the scammers and the
fake coaches and all of thesethings out here.
It goes back to what I said,but the problem is people get
galvanized by what they'resaying and then they lean on
their energy.
Don't lean on your own energyin that moment, lean on their
energy.
So what I mean by that?

(01:01:31):
Look past the sales, look pastthe marketing, look past the
shiny stuff and try to find outwho this person is and who
they've helped.
If you can start to tap intosome of that, then you have to
be willing to go out on faithand say, all right, I've done my
research, I trust that thisperson is going to do what they
said.
Now let me invest and get all Ican from it instead of looking
at it from a skeptical eye.
Yeah, that's number one.
So many people are missing outon that.
And let me just say this andI'm still on point one the whole

(01:01:52):
purpose of a true coach or astrategist or advisor whoever
you want to label yourself asconsultant, that's charging this
money to talk to them and getthat information is that they
can condense what they'velearned over the last 5, 10, 20
years into an hour and they canpack it to you.
That's going to speed you up10,000 times more than ChatGPT
and YouTube, because it's onlyso much you can get from AI, all

(01:02:15):
right.
So don't be afraid to investinto that.
You just need to do yourresearch.
So that's number one.
The number two thing I wouldsay find out what you really
want to do.
So many people don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
Like for me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I would be a movie director if money was not an
object, if my house was paid offand everything was done, I
would literally go shoot a filmtomorrow.
That's my passion, that's myheart, right.
But guess what?
I'm directing brands right now.
I'm not waiting.
You see what I'm saying.
So I know what I want and I'mdoing it one way or another.
Right, it may not line up whereI'm in Hollywood, but I'm still

(01:02:54):
directing brands.
You can literally see stuff onmy social media where I'm behind
the camera and I'm tellingpeople what to do and I'm
writing stuff.
So find out what you want to doand pursue it.
I wasn't waiting until I madeenough money or until I
graduated.
People wait until they die andthey're in the grave to my dang.
I wish I would have.
Yeah, I don't regret losingmoney or failing.
I regret not trying stuff.

(01:03:15):
That's right, all right, sothat's number two.
And then finally, I would saywith number three, work on your
brand.
You have a brand, learn what itis, develop it.
It's going to be the mostimportant thing in this AI world
.
Everything is artificial.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Make thing in this AI world.
Everything is artificial.
Make your art official.
Ooh man, that's a ManhoodMatters exclusive right there,
damn, you understand what I'msaying.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Yes, yeah, that was great Life imitates art, but art
imitates life as well.
So you need to make yourself soprofound, being the highest
version of you.
I know people talk aboutfrequency and vibration and all
Psychedelical hillbilly stuff.
It's real who you aredetermines everything, and if

(01:03:58):
you believe you can't do it, youwon't be able to do it.
That's right.
The man who believes he can andthe man who believes he can't
are both correct.
That's right.
My favorite quote is tied intothe brand thing.
To wrap this all up, AbrahamLincoln said if I had seven
hours to chop down a tree, Iwould spend six hours sharpening
my axe.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Love it.
Get prepared, because it'scoming.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
That is powerful stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
So before we ask you where we can find you Big Will
or Big Chill, tell us where wecan find your agency brother all
right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Yeah, I'm, um, I'm on social media nash group
insurance.
I'm gonna tell you somethingfunny.
I went to facebook and Ichanged my name, just I planned
with it or whatever, and, um, soit says nash lee.
I saw that, yeah, and now Igotta wait 60 days or whatever
to change it back.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
So, to be honest with you, I don't know what, so what
about?
Just tell us about Instagram?
Yeah, you didn't fuck that up,did you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Yeah, it's all together.
Facebook and Instagram are thesame company.
Yeah, so it's Nash Lee onFacebook.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
What's it?

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
going to be in 60 days.
We're going to work on that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Yeah, we're going to work on that, yeah we're going
to work on that.
I mean because, honestly, I'mlistening to you and talking.
I do need your help.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
It's next level, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I do need your help, hi Rod.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Rod, where can we find you, bro?
People are looking for you.
Where can we find you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
RodBrentsoncom R R-O-D-B-R-I-N-S-O-Ncom.
Everything about me is there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
All right.
Social media, all of that, leon, you got anything you're
promoting.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Yeah, If you're looking for a place to stay, you
can go to Chameleon Homes LLC.
Gmailcom is my email and it'sjust Chameleon Homes LLCcom is
the website Dope.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
All right.
So at the end of each show weflip a coin and someone has to
read the outro notes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
How about just send it to me?
Don't even flip the coin, manboom.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Look, rod says he's going to do it.
Willie, you're off the hook.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Thank, God, because last time I did it I was
horrible.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Who were you last time I was?

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Glorilla.
That was good.
Yeah, I had to do it in myMemphis voice.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's
funny.
So, rod, who are you going tobe?
Because you have to do it, youcan't just read it, you have to
do an impression.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Can I be anybody?
You can be anybody.
Add your flavor to it.
Okay, I'm about to do the mostworst impression ever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
I'm going to just do it, let's go Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
What.
You got this on me, you gotthis on.
Okay, first of all, pleasesupport us by following the show
.
If you don't follow this show,if you don't really follow this
show, I'm going to have to beKing Kong around here.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Okay, that's it From training.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Leave Denzel, okay that's it from training.
Leave us a five star review onApple Podcast.
Okay, thank you so much forlistening.
We'll catch you next week.
We share conversations and wesurround ourselves with other
guys just like this.
Okay, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Manhood matters, we out, let's go alright, denzel, I
got to tell you.