What Nobody Tells You About the Art of Staying Together

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What does it really take to transform a struggling marriage into a thriving partnership? In this powerful, emotionally raw episode, Willie and Patrice Nash open up about the journey of their 17-year marriage alongside host Stéphane and his wife Zola. They reveal the pivotal conversation that changed everything seven years into their relationship.

"Before we were fighting against each other, but the last 10 years I can say we have fought every fight TOGETHER," Patrice shares, pinpointing the moment their marriage truly began to flourish. The couples explore how relocating from Memphis to Atlanta forced Willie and Patrice to rely solely on each other, creating both immense strain and unexpected healing.

Willie courageously discusses his period of grief following his mother's death—how he coped through substance abuse, emotional distance, and missed family moments. Meanwhile, Patrice reveals the loneliness she experienced while raising their children essentially alone during those difficult years. Their unfiltered honesty provides a roadmap for couples facing similar challenges.

The conversation explores how financial transparency, intentional communication, and shared decision-making became the foundation for rebuilding trust. Both couples reflect on marriage as a daily choice to elevate one another rather than simply coexist. As Willie poignantly states, "Marriage is two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other."

Whether you're newly married, contemplating marriage, or weathering relationship storms, this conversation offers profound insights on fighting for your partnership rather than against each other. The vulnerability and wisdom shared here remind us that even the strongest marriages aren't built on perfection, but on the willingness to grow through difficulty together.

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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
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Music by Liam Weisner

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't think I've ever experienced in a
relationship because we were rawand we admitted our flaws in
the things that we did tointentionally hurt each other.
No one was around, it was justhim and I, and he sat me down,
he said let's talk, and it wasjust out of the blue.
It wasn't planned, it wasn't wewere arguing or we were mad.
It was just a randomconversation and it clicked for

(00:23):
us.
And that was seven years intoour marriage.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
But the last 10 years I can say we have fought every
fight together.
Before we were fighting againsteach other, obstacles or single
, and considering marriage.
Take a moment to trulyunderstand what this partnership
and commitment really means.
It's not necessarily aboutcompromise, but rather about
small daily sacrifices toelevate the other person and
having those be reciprocated.
I sat with my friends Willieand Patrice Nash and learned so
much from them.
They have a 17-year marriage,which is beautiful and seems to

(01:11):
still be in the honeymoon phase,but in this episode they bare
their souls and take us on ajourney through the obstacles
that almost broke them apart.
It was enlightening andtherapeutic and also, if I ever
need reassurance that I am trulyloved, I can always come back

(01:31):
to this conversation and listento my wife Zola talk about our
relationship of only three years.
Both marriages have their upsand downs, major differences and
uncanny parallels.
Be sure to share this with yourpartner, because you are not
alone and this conversationmight just help you through some

(01:51):
tough times.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to cope From a blackman's sense.
Each word, a keynote, littlemen, smalls, physical strife,
hustling hard.
So this episode is going to beabout marriage, about the

(02:12):
relationships, the longevity.
You guys have been together for17 years.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
It'll be 17 years this year.
Married, married.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
All right.
So why don't we just start withthat right?
We'll start with introducingyourselves and to say how long
you've been married, and thenZola and I will go.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I am Patrice Nash.
I am the wife of Willie NashBig Chill, as some have heard.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Oh yeah, I'm.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Big Chill Husband.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
I'm the husband of this fine young lady here, 17
years married, 29 years knowingyou Really.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, 29 years knowing.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Wow, hey babe 29 years.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, I know, you're like 29 hours Just about Married
28 and a half.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
So I'm your host, Stefan Hus, husband to my
beautiful wife Zola, Married.
It'll be three years inSeptember and we've known each
other just as long.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
All right.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
What I want to do is have the conversations about our
relationships so that otherpeople who are married they
won't see this as a blueprint,but they can at least kind of
see, okay, well, we're not theonly ones dealing with this, and
other people who are notmarried who are looking at
marriage as something thateventually they will have in
their lives, so they can kind ofknow what to expect.

(03:35):
So let's start off with how youguys met.
Take us back a little bit.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, we have two different versions of how we met
.
Willieie and I went to highschool together.
I was a freshman, he was asenior, he was mr popular, I was
not.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Uh, were you a nerd yes, I was a undergrad nerd.
No, and a good way like a nerd.
Like you know, were you inchess club?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
no, I actually met him because I was the track
manager you're what the trackmanager.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
You were what.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
The track manager.
Okay, so the football team,would you know?
They'd be running at the gym oroutside on track and then we'd
do weightlifting.
So I got to see him because hewas a football player.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
She saw me in my uniform.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
No, I saw him in his suspenders and a white shirt and
loafers and dress pants in 12thgrade.
That's how my husband wascoming to high school.
So yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
So you're saying I've been fly he was debonair, baby
that's right, that's right buthe was a really, really cool guy
.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
His best friend at the time was like really cool
with me, so we were alwaysrunning to each other and he
used to try to feel on my booty,um, you know, fresh meat.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
That's what he thought he was getting no, sir
shut it down um, but over theyears we just that's how he did
it back then, bro, just likethat's feeling on booty real
quick oh, no, no, let me tellyou how you would do.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
he'd be like, hey, you gonna give me a hug and
i'll'd be like the hug, yes,yeah.
So, then I'm short and he wastaller than me.
He would literally pick me upby my booty and I'd be like, are
you serious?
So I used to call him my teddybear because he reminded me of
Gerlivert.
Oh, romantic, who's notromantic at all.

(05:25):
It's like you're so annoying,but I would.
I I even wrote it was ironic.
You know, some people tell thestory and they'd be like, oh,
that didn't happen.
But I pulled up my diary and Iwas like willie felt on my booty
today I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
I made it to the diary, you made it to the diary.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's cute.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
So, and then what happened?
You asked her out eventually.
Did you guys start dating inhigh school?

Speaker 4 (05:51):
No, yeah, we never got together.
In high school I had a littlereputation.
She would never give me thetime of day other than just a
little casual flirting.
Here and there.
I used to see her out sometimes, you know.
And flirting here and there, Iused to see her out sometimes,
you know.
And she, I have somebody orshe'll, she'll be with somebody
as well.
Just one person that she talkedabout all the time that one
night I seen her out.

(06:12):
I was like that ain't gonnawork, you know, y'all ain't
gonna be together.
I ain't gonna tell her what,tell you what I really told her.
I want to know.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Okay, well, cool, I cool, I tell her.
I tell her, let's say you justdick, drunk what?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Dick drunk, dick whipped yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Dick mitized yeah she was dick mitized.
Dick whipped High five,nevermind.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
If I ever dick, she won't.
You can't do it To somebodyyou're married with.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
You're like but pretty much Like if you see a
girl that's like crazed over adude and you're just like why?
You know what I mean?
She's dick whipped Like itgotta be the D yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
And it came from Just hearing about him and
conversations she would shareabout him.
I said You'll be alright.
So one night we were at SensesSenses nightclub.
I was there by myself, she wasthere by herself.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I was not by myself.
I was with Erica.
I had my fucking girl Dressedon Because the dicking guy Was
done.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
I was done with the dicking guy.
Okay, well, I didn't know shewas there with anybody else.
I don't that I can remember.
No, you didn't pay attention toyeah yeah, so that night we had
a good time.
I never had a number, we justused to see each other out
literally.
And that night I got a number.
I think we danced a little bit.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
You rubbed my feet in the club.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
I rubbed the feet in the club.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
In the club.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yay, yeah, and she had already had Thomas at the
time, I think he was about sixmonths old.
We've been together ever sincethat night.
She was supposed to call me andlet me know she made it home,
which she did not.
I did not she did not do so.
The next I believe the next,the next day or the day after I
sent her a message saying thankyou for letting me know you made
it home, or did you make ithome something like that?

Speaker 1 (07:54):
it was a little smart ass remark yeah, that sounds
like.
Okay, let me call him and belike I made it my bad and it was
ironic he called me or textedme when I was pulling into my
garage, so I was like oh, so itwas the same night no, it wasn't
it just happened.
I was coming from work.
I think it was that Monday.
It was to like two days okay,breast is history.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
We got engaged and married within a year.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Wow, started dating in December-ish really in and
then he proposed in April.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
Yeah, and you know, and it came from a being in a
horrible relationship prior toHer relationship wasn't that
great, mine wasn't that great,and I think it allowed both of
us to see what we were kind ofreally wanted, you know, and we
came together at the right time.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Do you think your previous relationship as friends
in high school?
Do you think that had a lot to?

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Oh, definitely yeah yeah, I can say that it did
because, although everything wasjovial and joking, you know, I
think that the way lifesometimes is aligned, we weren't
supposed to be together then toprepare us for, you know, to go
through whatever we wentthrough to get to where we are
now.
But I never thought reallyhonestly in a million years that

(09:10):
we would actually actually betogether.
I was trying to get some youknow that was true.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
I also don't know what that's like, but go on.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
You know, and I was the type of person that I always
got what I wanted.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
And.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
I was.
I was just joking with her theother day, even though I didn't
get you then, but I still gotyou.
You know what I'm saying?
20 years.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
You had to work for it.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
It wasn't an easy feat, no, but yeah, so we our
paths came together at the righttime, and I'm grateful for it.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, I was going to say I had to do some soul
searching.
For me it was a littledifferent because I had Thomas.
It made me look at the valuesof a man different because
before I was dating to date truetransparency I didn't have
marriage on my list of things Iwanted to do in life.
I had been proposed to a coupleof times before he had proposed

(10:06):
, but I was like huh, marriagenot I.
But I also didn't have my sonat the time and I didn't want to
be one of those moms thatbrought men in and out of my
life.
But I appreciated that he was myfriend first.
So I didn't have to go throughthat awkward stage of getting to
know somebody or not knowingtheir pedigree, because people

(10:29):
can put on a portrayal for thefirst year, year and a half, two
years, and then when that veilcomes off you see a whole
different person.
I didn't have to go throughthat stage of our relationship.
For the most part we had somegrowing pains but the blueprint
of who he is and the fiber ofwho he was I already knew.
I knew his family, I knew wherehe came from.
I can go back and my friendswould be like oh, that's just

(10:51):
Willie, that's.
You know we had a referencepoint.
You know he ain't finna.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Whoop my ass, is he no, just making sure right babe
you want to tell a storyactually no, you tell it better
no, I don't know, but just likeyou, I wasn't looking to date or
anything like that and honestly, I was just, you know, whatever
my son would act up, I'm like,okay, maybe he need a daddy.

(11:15):
You know, that's when I wouldstart dating.
And that's just an honestanswer.
Like I wasn't interested, likeI was cool with it, just being
you know me and my kids, and Iwas perfectly fine with that.
I felt like my son was at an agewhere he needed, you know, that
role model, because I tellSteph all the time I'm like a
woman can't raise a man.
You know, like she can raisehim to be, have all the

(11:39):
qualities that she feels like aman should have, but a woman can
never truly raise a man.
That's a man's job.
So I felt like, in that sense,like yeah, we were ready.
But, moreover, it was just like, okay, let me actually get
serious, cause I'm I am gettingup there in age.
So I was just casually dating.
I'm using these dating apps onenightmare after another, you

(12:01):
know.
So I was just chilling one dayand I saw this guy.
What was I on Tinder?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Mm-hmm, because I was up there for another reason.
What was your reason, samereason you had one day, that's
okay, basically.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
So you know, I was like, oh, you know, like he's
handsome and this and that andblah, blah blah.
So I just I swiped was it swiperight?
Yeah, I swiped, was it swiperight?
Yeah, I swiped right.
And then it said that wematched and I was like, oh, okay
, I sent.
Did I send you the messagefirst?

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, I sent him a message and then he responded
you can pick up from there.
Yeah, so I got, I got a message.
But see, so, going back, I hadnever known about Tinder.
And then a manager that cameinto my office when I was at ADT
.
He's like I'm going to kind ofturn my Tinder on Because he's
from Atlanta and he came toMemphis.
So I'm like what the hell areyou doing?
He's like I got to turn thisshit on.
Every time I'm out of town, Iturn it on.
He's like, yeah, you don't wantto mess with people at home,
but every time you travel I Iwas like that sounds like a

(13:01):
great strategy.
Yeah, I was like that soundslike a great strategy, so fast
forward.
I remember what the hell hesaid I'm now single and I'm
going oh, I'm turning this shiton, but I don't want to mess
with anybody where I was living,you know, in Memphis or
whatever.
So I was like I'm going out oftown, I'm in Florida.
We were celebrating with theteam.
We had a few matches because Iwas heading back home and I

(13:23):
forgot to turn it off.
That's when her message camethrough.
A message came through and I waslike, oh, this is someone that
swiped right on earlier.
I was like, hey, look, let melevel with you.
I'm not in town, I'm inTennessee.
So, and also, she was one ofthe ones that I saw her message
and I respected right away,because she was very, very clear
and she used a word that, eventhough I've heard that word a

(13:43):
million times, it never clicked.
She used the word in herprofile, or her little
description intentional.
She said so for you to be withme, for you to even talk to me,
you need to be intentional.
So I was like I'm not a horribleguy and you're telling me that
you know, this is your life,this is what it is.
You know, I've got a dog, I'vegot an 18-year-old and I got a

(14:05):
10-year-old.
I'm not playing around, I'mbeing intentional.
So I was like I'm not going towaste this one's time, because I
could have been like yeah, I'min Miami, I'll see you next week
or whatever.
But I was like yeah, I'm inMemphis.
Yeah, let's talk, let's seewhere it goes.
She was like hey, I didn'tnotice you.

(14:26):
I didn't notice your age onthere, so I'll right I thought I
was a lot younger, but hey, youknow.
So there was no age on there, Iwasn't lying but you're also a
surgeon for cooch, so yeah theage wasn't mattering exactly, I
was like you don't need to knowme that well, not for this, you
know.
You don't even know about mylife and nothing.
But when she asked, I was likejust from 51, I'm recently

(14:49):
divorced.
At the time I was counting mystepdaughter, so I have five
kids.
The next message was wow,that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
And I was like he's giving you the cliff notes.
Okay, girl, it was like, yeah,it was like 12 paragraphs and
I'm like that's a lot, that's afreaking lot you just unloaded I
did, but I appreciatetransparency.
That's my thing.
That's one thing I canappreciate about a person is

(15:21):
transparency.
I'm very direct, very straightto the point.
You ain't got to sugarcoat shitfor me, so for you to be trans,
that's what I need.
I don't need, don't waste mytime.
I don't need to date you sixmonths.
I need you to tell me all yourbullshit right now.
Yep, so I can decide if that'ssomething I want to insert
myself in right 100% agree andthe next message that I sent her

(15:42):
was I totally understand I getit.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
I know what my baggage is I was like I totally
understand.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
If you want to end the conversation, it's cool or
whatever.
And again, luckily, she didn'tsay yeah, you're right, the same
for me.
So we kept on talking and now Iwas like I can't do this Tinder
shit and texting, so I'mpicking up the phone.
What's your number?
And then we were on the phonefor like hours every single
night.
She had to wake up and go towork.
She had to wake up at six andwe're on the phone till like

(16:13):
three in the morning.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Oh wow no, it was real, like I've again.
I've been on dating apps, I'vebeen on the bumbles, I've been
on plenty of fishes, I've beenon the tinders, you know, and
I've met some great quality men,right, but it's just the I
wouldn't even say necessarilyattraction, but that chemistry,
that feeling that you get whenyou know, you know, even in

(16:35):
conversations, I just didn'thave that with them.
A lot of them became likereally good friends, but yeah,
there's, you gotta I don't know,you gotta be able to deal with
me in a certain.
You just gotta know how tohandle me right.
And none of them knew how tohandle me Right.
You know, when I came acrossSteph, it was very refreshing
and I'm not gonna be the one tobe like, oh, he has to have like

(16:56):
this, he has to be this, he hasto be six feet, he has to Like.
All that is bullshit because,at the end of the day, six feet
can only go so far.
Right, you know, it's, it's Imean yeah, truthfully, six foot
did not matter I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
I'm sorry, I fight for mine okay, I throw down okay
but I knew it was coming.
But I mean, it's not even that.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I'm just saying like setting realistic expectation
and how far it's going to takeyou in a relationship.
Right, a lot of women aresingle because they're not
setting realistic expectations.
Exactly you know like you'relooking for yourself.
Your soulmate said hi a longtime ago and you dismissed him
because he was only making$50,000.
Right, so I was at a point inmy life where I was who I wanted

(17:53):
to attract.
A lot of Steph's qualities.
He's the complete opposite of me, also made that attraction so
much more stronger because youknow, just in speaking with him,
things I would say.
It wasn't necessarily a oh girl,you can't say that or check me
really quick, but he had a verymature, subtle way of spinning

(18:18):
the words around.
So it sounds a lot better Likehe'll say it back to me and I
can actually like catch it Idon't know if you knew that, but
you do that a lot but you'llrephrase everything that I'm
trying to say and he'll say itin a way where one it's not as
hostile, it's more and maybehostile isn't the right word but
not as aggressive.
He would say it in a way whereit feminizes me and I interpret

(18:40):
it, I take it, digest it and Ican give that back to him, right
?
So I know like my follow-upsentence needs to be a certain
way, like it wasn't, and itsounds like it's a mind game,
but it was just something thatjust naturally occurred within
my spirit like basically likechecks your tone without
checking your tone exactly,exactly, or like I just say

(19:02):
things and again he'll justregurgitate it back at me in a
way where it's more human, moreyou know, more understanding,
and then I can write off thatand it's the rest of the
conversation can flow.
Ok, if that makes any sense atall.
Yeah, it's just those littlethings in conversation that
really stood out for me.
That's just like you knowthat's captivating, like these

(19:25):
dudes weren't captivating me,like that Like it just wasn't
there.
So to come across Steph, eventhough that long list of his
shit list like immediately,because me I don't like drama.
I don't like any of that, right, but it's presented in a way
that I could handle, so it's upto me to be like hmm, he has
kids.
But guess what?

(19:45):
They're workable.
Things like these are thingsthat can change and grow within
a relationship, which is why Iwas just like yeah, let's, let's
continue talking right and inthose conversations it's like
just like wow.
Like like wow, like I love Stephbefore I met him, oh, wow.
Like those are theconversations that we were
having, like he was feeding andmy soul and like pouring into me

(20:09):
, like this was like by the it'slike two weeks in Smooth
operator.
No, but like I'm saying like,like me, I'm the type of person
like we don't need to waste time, I don't need to find out six
months from now that you got badcredit.
We knocked that out Firstconversation, finances, all that
stuff.
Like, let's knock that stuffout, because to me, like this is

(20:29):
all the shit people need toknow up front.
Yeah, right, we all need tocommit a whole year to each
other.
Then go try to get a place torealize both of us fucked up,
right, like no, we need toestablish that before and
continue to work on it so we canget to where we need to be at
that point.
Right, so it's like all theseconversations that we were

(20:51):
having, they weren't oh, man,you so fine what you ate for
lunch.
Like it was none of that stuff,it was legit getting to know
each other like for real.
The questions that people yeah,the questions that people take
too long to ask yeah we alreadyasked that, like first 48, so we
were able to move on from there, and then it's gold and it was
just some real conversation,like intense conversation and,

(21:11):
yeah, like I said, like I lovedSteph before I even met him.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Willie and I had long conversations as well because
we didn't have to go throughthat getting to know you stage.
So he knew my biggest thing wasmy child.
He had to pass a test.
So Thomas was six months, five,six, six months.
So you know, at that stagethere's kind of like finicky
around certain people.
So I let him come over to meetThomas.

(21:36):
Full transparency.
I was living with my child'sfather but we were not together.
He was living on one side ofthe house, I was on the other.
You were roommates.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, we were strictly roommates.
You just happened to be thedaddy.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, and we had bought a house together that
Willie would not finance beforebecause he said that shit ain't
going to last.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
So I went to him.
I was a loan officer.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
He was a loan officer .
He's like I'm not approvingthat shit.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I'm not approving that shit.
Shut me down Like full throttle.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
And I was like I know .

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh my God, I was like damn when I was by myself.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
You said yeah, but then I bring him in the office.
I ain't even want that chick,it's like nah.
So anyway, we got a housetogether and it's not as easy to
get out of the house, so wewere roommates.
But let him come over to seeThomas and Thomas fell in love
with him, like I was, like myson doesn't even like me besides
my dad, dad and my brother, buteverybody else he would never

(22:35):
go to, but that one he wentright to, like they played
together.
Then my son had a good spirit.
You did have a good spirit.
And that's what I want to havea good spirit, yeah that's what
I wanted to check to see, likethat was my post check, where it
wasn't necessarily finances butit was more how are you going
to be with my son?
I used to hear everybody say,don't let him get to know your

(22:55):
child too soon.
But I'm like that's my realityEvery day.
I'm a mother.
That's not something I can turnoff.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Interesting take and it definitely wasn't the
finances, because when we met Iwas living with my mother.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
He was, he was living with his mom, but it was the
market at that time was gettingready to tank.
That's when recession washitting, mortgage recession was
hitting and loan processing loanofficer wasn't making as much,
but he was always betterfinanced at that time than I was
because he had built a hugesaving and he was a go-getter.
It didn't stop him from working.
He was like this is not givingme the amount that I want.

(23:32):
I'm spending more money and Idon't have anybody at home.
Might as well live with myparents.
So I knew the reasoning why.
So I was like there's no,you're not a bum, you've lived
out on your own before.
You could maintain your lifedriving a nice car and not
saying that you know thatmattered, but I knew he could
pay bills.
He, but I knew he could paybills.

(23:53):
He showed that he had theability to pay bills.
So that wasn't a big flag forme.
Like I said, it was just reallyhow he interacted with my son
and my son got RSV right aroundhis birthday the weekend of his
birth closer to his birthday.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
What's RSV?

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Respiratory Systic Clinical Virus, where, if he
would have been, probably amonth later he was to the point
where he could have been deadlyDeadly.
So they have better treatmentsnow, but during this time he had
to go into the hospital forabout a week and get steroids
and he checked on me every day,came up there to see him, bought
him like a little stuffedanimal that my son kept forever.

(24:26):
Yeah, he was like checking onme, checking on my son, and I
saw that quality, like he didn'thave to Right, especially just
dating Right, and I wasn'tgiving him any because he still
had to work for it.
You didn't get that ass, but Ihad to see all these qualities

(24:46):
and I'm seeing him do more thanthe person that I thought should
have been there and they wasn'tshowing up the way that I
thought and I'm like thatperson's not even checking on me
, but this one is always makingsure I'm good and even after
Because he was the one who kepthim and held him the night that
he was like really going throughit and stuff with me, so that

(25:10):
tugged at my heart too.
Then he painted my whole house.
You was working for it and I'msitting here thinking about it
now you still owe me some I mean, yeah, it was not a small house
, it was like he had to paintall the rooms with I painted a
hole after my child's fathermoved out.
He painted a house like this Imean, yeah, it was not a small

(25:34):
house.
It was like he had to paint allthe rooms with me kitchen,
everything I wanted, everythingpainted and he did it with me.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Willie, when did you know that she was the one?
Obviously there was courtship,but at some point you were just
like that's my wife.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
I can say from the night at the club, really, wife.
I can say from the night at theclub, really.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
So the rest of it was like super genuine.
Yeah, you weren't trying to getanything.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
It was no agenda other than that's my woman,
that's my wife yeah, I knew,like I said, because once I went
through that bad relationshipand I had time to think about
okay, it's not just about sexanymore.
What do I want going forward,what I want my future to look
like?
And for me to go in knowingthat she had a six-month-old,

(26:14):
knowing that the dad's stillaround and, as limited as I felt
that he was, um, knowing that Istill wanted it.
Like I said, it was a realchoice, you know, to be there,
because some men just walk awayfrom that, you know.
But I knew, I said, knowing her, and it could have been,
honestly, it could have beensomething from high school,
because I, because we alwayscame back to each other some

(26:36):
kind of way.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
You know, whether she's at a restaurant.
I walk in a restaurant, she'sat the bar with her girls.
We flirt a little bit and I gosomewhere else and I see her
again, like we always kind ofsaw each other.
So it you know, when it theopportunity came to really focus
on what I wanted, I mean it waseasy to kind of revert back to
her and I think that seeing herthat night, I was like I can't

(26:58):
let her go.
This time I'm gonna get her.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, but what were you looking for in a woman, or
what was lacking?
Maybe lacking isn't the rightword, but what was happening in
your life where you were justlike, nah, I need this one isn't
the right word, but what washappening in your life where you
were just like nah, I need thisone, this.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
What did she fulfill for you?
Well, it was the, the, theconversation and the
intellectual aspect of her.
You know, whereas before Ialways had long hair, light skin
, nice shape.
I had a a real type, and that'sall that I would deal with, so
she was different from what Iwas accustomed to.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
So you had to step over to the dark side.
I stepped over to the dark side.
Exactly, right, it's okay, weknow, we know, we typically do
it.
We typically do it Amen, samethis one.
You know that type.
We typically do it no, no.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Baby, please.
I did not go after them, theycame after me.
It's different, oh my god, I'lltell you a quick story

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I'll go back to us dating, but let me tell you a
quick story.
Willie and I were at the mallone time.
His mom had just passed and hissister.
Him and I were at the mallgetting ready to find something
to wear for the funeral orwhatever.
He's sitting on the bench andnow go into the loft or
something looking for somethingto wear.
I come back out.

(28:16):
It's this little petite, longhair, bright, light skin girl.
He's like no no, no.
I'm good, I like see littlebitch.
I told you I can't take younowhere from now on.
You stay right.
And that was the second one, sothe bad relationship he was in.
We were at Macy's right beforethat and another girl, like her

(28:38):
friend, saw him and immediatelygot on the phone with her friend
Because we could hear her onthe phone.
He was like ah shit, that'ssuch and such friend and I'm
like okay.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
And to go back a little bit, there was no
substance behind that.
At the end of the day, she wassmart.
She liked to read books all thetime.
It was just something that wastotally different, that I knew
that I needed in my life becauseI needed to grow.
I was always an entrepreneur.
I had to entrepreneur mindset,but being around someone who can

(29:11):
educate me and help me and I'mseeing the things that she's
doing for herself, and thenshe's pointing to me and giving
me different ideas of differentways of looking for things, that
became more important to methan the superficial stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
But it doesn't hurt that she's fine.
You know, what I'm saying.
That's icing on the cake.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
I was a looker, I just was a little darker, yeah,
I mean that.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
That that helped.
I just was a little darker.
Yeah, I mean, that helped outtremendously, so I can get this
and that Exactly.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
But I will say Honestly, I wasn't all innocent
either.
Like we grew up in Memphis, andMemphis is a big city but it's
a small town, so I don't know ifthat makes sense, but everybody
knows everybody.
So by us, going to high schoolwe had overlapping friends and
when we get said we were gettingready to get married.
Mind you, we had just starteddating and people were like wait

(30:01):
, first of all, we didn't evenknow they were dating.
Second of all, they marriedeach other.
I think it was a few bits outthere that we went last, because
they were like you married towho?
And it wasn't just on his side,it was on my side too because,
again, marriage was not on mylist of things and I was just

(30:22):
out doing my thing.
I was like I don't have a carein the world, I'm living my best
life like he said I had my ownhouse, had my job, I had been
working since I was 14 and I goout, hang out with my girls and
go to happy hour, do what Iwanted to do.
But again I think my son slowedme down and I stopped going to
the club and I started, like yousaid, being very intentional

(30:44):
and I didn't get an opportunityto be too intentional because he
popped up right.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
I was like, well, damn, stop it intentional,
because he popped up right, Iwas like, well, damn, stop it,
be again.
No, sometimes when you, Ireally feel like when you put
certain things out there in theuniverse, you said, okay, I'm
gonna be intentional.
That's a weird way of justbringing that to your doorstep,
you know.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
I believe you pray things into existence.
I've lived that through mywhole life.
I don't know how people arewith their religion, but I am
one of how people are with theirreligion.
But I am one of those peoplewhen I get into a sticky
situation I ask the Lord, youknow, like if it's not for me,
take it away.
And he didn't take him away.
He's never gave me that insightto say that he was the one that

(31:25):
I needed to remove from my life.
If anything.
My dad loving him was huge too.
His mom was like take care ofmy baby.
And I would go over his momhouse more than I would tell him
Like.
He'll call me, like hey, wherey'all at, and I'm like, oh, I'm
at your mom house.
He'll be like I ain't even overthere.
I'm like, well, I am.
And this was like when we firstinitially started dating and I

(31:46):
would hang with her and my mom,you know back and forth.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
That's awesome.
What's something about marriagethat's happening that you did
not expect, being that this isso fresh for us?

Speaker 2 (31:57):
You're asking me yeah , again.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
I get it, I 100% get it.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Sharing my bed, you know.
Going in the bathroom andsomebody already in there, you
know.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Your presence, you, I wanted marriage, but I didn't
know you'd be in it.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
You're in my space.
You're in my marriage, right,oh God.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think it's being forced to relinquish that
selfishness you know, beingcomfortable with losing space
because, again, I was alone fora very, very, extremely long
time, you know.
So it's like all these thingsthat I'm accustomed to.
It's like now, okay, my thingabout Steph is I wanted him in

(32:47):
my space, so navigating throughthat was easy for me, but I
think, difficult for him because, remember, he was living in
Memphis.
I made him sell his house andmove to Florida to be with me,
so he gave up.
Initially he gave up a lot likea lot, a lot.
Now it's like, okay, you know,what can I do to make it our

(33:10):
space?
Because, again, everything inthere is already set up.
So it was more trying to makehim feel welcomed, if that makes
any sense, than being anoutsider or feeling like he's
just living with someone and nothaving like his own identity in
that space.
Navigating through that was achallenge in itself.

(33:31):
Me now not being head ofhousehold and shifting my life
in a way where, because now Ihave that male presence, I'm no
longer head of household, right.
So shifting that mindset and Ihave two kids, letting them know
like, this is who's in my life,this is who's going to be here
I mean, they knew that before hemoved in right, but things were

(33:51):
moving really, really fast.
Like I said, you know, we lovedeach other at two weeks.
Then we met, like what, anothertwo weeks later for Valentine's
Day, and then we did, like youknow, I would fly to Memphis for
extended weekends and then, bylike month three, march 18th to
be exact, you know, we wereengaged, so that's like three.

(34:12):
We were like at the speed oflight.
So a lot was happening, yeah,like a lot was happening that
neither one of us were preparedfor.
For us, it felt normal, it feltright, it didn't see you know,
from the outside looking in,yeah, I could see where it was a
tad bit crazy, like you.
Okay, blink twice, yeah, I cansee the outside perception, but

(34:35):
us being in it like everythingjust seemed normal.
This is what we're supposed todo, right?
So for me, when you're whensomething is supposed to happen,
it's easy.
But then when something isn'tsupposed to happen, there's a
lot of obstacles along the waythat you have to force things to
make it work.
Again, back to you know,everything being rushed in a

(34:56):
sense, not rushed for us, butfrom the outside looking in,
everything seemed rushed, butfor us it was just like moving
at the pace that it should,right?
So I didn't have any objectionsto that.
And then engaged in March.
We are married in September.
There's no, we dated for a yearway, but you're growing
together, yeah, you know.
And then also, I think againpeople wait that long year or

(35:36):
two years because again they'retrying to figure out all the
things that they should havejust asked up front, up front,
right, they're waiting for thosered flags to see if they
exactly are and all that stuff,or you know filling it out, and
I'm a strong believer.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
if I didn't know within three to four months, you
know, of us dating, there wasno point.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
I will say one thing that happens that's interesting
too is like we all have ourunique stories and even though
you guys knew each other a longtime, when you got together you
just said we're going to fastforward through all this.
You didn't think it, it justorganically happened.
Same with us.
We met and it was just likeboom, boom, boom.
It feels like we'll joke likelast year how anniversary came
and we were like what year isthis like?
It feels like it's year 10we've been together, but in a

(36:20):
good way.
Nothing like oh, my god, it'sbeen, you know forever.
More like we've known eachother.
We feel we've gone through awhole lot and if there's been
any kind of doubt, it hasn'treally been doubt about who we
are and what we're meant to beto each other.
It's more like the logic kicksin right.
So something happens and we'rebeefing about something.
It's just like should we havetaken more time?
Did you ever think of that atall?

(36:42):
I?

Speaker 2 (36:42):
mean, we're beefing now.
Yeah, I know you'd never knowit, but here's the thing, though
.
And, steph, right, I have mybest friend, I have my husband,
I have my road dog, I have myadvisor, I have, you know, my
spiritual leader, someone whoprays over me every single day.

(37:02):
So I have all these thingsright now as husband and wife.
Oh, we beefing mad right now,right, like real bad, but he's
also my best friend.
Like, right now, I'm havingthis conversation with my best
friend, yes, my husband, butthis is my best friend, right,
we'll handle husband and wifestuff later, but in stuff, I
have everything, and I know howto separate certain things.

(37:27):
Like, yeah, I could be beefingwith my husband, but that's just
.
It's like having a splitpersonality, you know.
So it's like I'm beefing withmy husband.
I'm not even talking to himright now, I'm talking my best
friend, right.
So it's like I have everythingthat I need in stuff, and then
shit happens, and it's justknowing how to navigate through

(37:47):
it, because, at the end of theday, I'm not going anywhere,
right, and if our marriagedoesn't work, it's because you
wanted to leave.
Yes, things happen, but I'mnever like, oh damn, maybe we
should have waited.
It's part of the growing painsthat you're talking about.
There's so much more to him, somuch more to us that totally
outweigh the cons, yeah.

(38:09):
And then when you find someonewho is your everything and I'm
not saying everything like I'velost my identity and it's all
about this man or anything likethat but when you find someone
who fully completes you and I'mnot saying like you can't be
complete on your own, but youknow when something in you
clicks that you are officiallycomplete.

(38:30):
I've had that click I don'tmake poor decisions, me saying
because I've been married beforeto myself, but I mean
technically it was anotherperson, but it's like being in a
marriage by yourself and thatwas something I never wanted to
experience again.
So me making the decision to bemarried and be with someone,
that's huge for me and that's acommitment.

(38:51):
That's not something I'm goingto walk away from.
And for me to make thatcommitment it has to be the
right person.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
yeah though we got married.
We got married young.
Like I was 27, you were 30,that was that's young for me
it's still me.
And now you're bopping at 35,40, trying to figure out what
they want, and then for 27 forme I was only four years out of
college.
I guess that's when people weretrying to decide what they want
, but it's hard no like usuallyfor women who was not low that

(39:21):
was a good time because thechild was born oh yeah, I forgot
about that, yeah so I stoppedat 24, but and that's usually-
the age women start to reallyyeah, women men trap women like
really soon.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Like really yeah, they trap us real soon no think
about it like statistically Imean even look at it a lot of
young black women in their 20salready have their first kid in
their 20s they weren't doingthat see, but you were on a
different path, like that wasn'tyour path.
But statistically, right now.
Yeah, that's right a lot ofwomen in their 20s have kids.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
That's true, they're trapped but, now I had some bop
in me it's about that life.
No, I'm just playing no, I'mjust playing but when we got
together Well, let me back backRight before we got married his
mom passed I've developed asuper close relationship with
her, yeah, and he had lost asignificant part of him.

(40:24):
She was that wife that everywoman aspires to be, as far as
taking care of home, providingfor her kids, cooking her
husband a meal.
That goes into me being alwaysin her space, trying to learn
things that she was doingbecause that's what he was
accustomed to.
But he was grieving during therest of our time getting married

(40:44):
, like to the point where wethought we'd push the wedding
back some.
But he was like nope, we'regetting married, going to hold
steady.
I was like, okay, cool, butinto our marriage for the first
three or four years he was stillgrieving.
And he wasn't grieving healthybecause he would cope with
hanging with his family, becausethat's who had the most
memories of his mom Because,mind you, I only had like a year

(41:07):
of memories of her, his sister,his cousins, everybody else.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
It was a lot of coping with alcohol and drugs.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah Well, I'm going to put that out there.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
I opened that door because now, as you're saying
that, it made me think aboutsomething that you probably just
really didn't know that I wasreally going through that, and
it kind of the first couple ofyears of being married.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
I was dark.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
I wasn't married, if that makes sense.
It was just.
I wasn't focused on the wife, Iwasn't really focused on the
kids.
I was just out enjoying life,doing what I wanted to do,
coming home four o'clock, fiveo'clock in the morning, partying
, and it was how I coped withlosing my mother.
I didn't really really reallyget to know my kids when we

(41:57):
moved to Georgia.
Now I came home every night,but I missed the events I got
when we moved to Georgia.
Now I came home every night,but I missed the events.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
I didn't do homework with them, I didn't really talk
to them all the time.
I laughed with her for a littlebit, throw her up in the air
and play with her a little bit,but I was trying to get out.
I was chasing something thatmade me feel better.
Well, I thought that was makingme feel better in the absence
of my mother.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
You and that was the party being around my family, I
mean, I think I probably drank afifth of Hennessy a day just
coping with that, and thatwasn't fair to the family, that
wasn't fair to them, but that'swhy I felt that I needed at the
time.
So once we moved to Georgiawhich in hindsight was the best
thing that- ever happened to me.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
You're a different person.
I'm totally different.
I know you from Memphis and Iknow you now.
Yeah, and you know, loved youthen for the person that you are
now, someone I look up to and Ialways say I'm like, just like
the things you've accomplished,and even your relationship is a
beautiful thing to watch.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Like you, you remember him, like you heard
about us but you didn't knowabout us.
You knew about Ernest or hisbest friend, you know about his
sister, you know those peopleand it was okay.
Well, it wasn't okay because itleft me lonely, um, but I had
my children and I protected themand we'll be very honest, like

(43:17):
the way we got here to Atlantawas me saying I gave him a
warning shot.
I said, hey, you're not puttingme on a pedestal.
I don't feel like I'm numberone priority in your life.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
He was like what do you mean?
I was angry.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
I date you, we go on dates.
I was like, no, I don't feellike I'm a priority, and then
he'll get mad and storm out.
I'd be like you're just goingto your sister.
I would make smart commentslike you just want to go to your
sister house, and that's wherehe would go and he would hang
with them all the time.
And it wasn't about me.
You knew how much money he wasmaking at that time.
I didn't know.
So it was a substantial amountof money and I wasn't seeing it

(43:56):
in the house.
I would have to find things forthe kids to do.
They went to the firework,shows or, you know, the zoo,
whatever.
We decided that weekend we weregoing to do park or whatever.
He was like I'm not even iny'all's circle, I'm like but
we're not excluding you, you'reexcluding yourself.
You can always come.
So we had a huge blowout rightbefore we came to Atlanta,

(44:21):
because we went out to dinnerand I said, hey, there's a
potential that I can get a jobin Atlanta.
What do you mean?
I said, well, I have numerousplaces where I could go.
Tell me where you want to go.
And I listed the places and hechose Atlanta.
But in his head.
He didn't think that I couldactually do it because at this
time that ego was playing in andyou know he's the breadwinner
and he's making this money.
But again, I'm not seeing thatmoney, so I can't make my

(44:43):
decisions about my kids'well-being and my life based off
of you at this point.
I went on and got the job.
He was like I'm not leaving.
I was like OK, well, that meansyou can come visit the kids on
the weekends.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
I could send them back however you want to do and
this is my, my voice while we'resitting on the couch he's
sitting in one, because you, youhad time to, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna guess that youprobably replayed that
conversation in your head beforeit happened, so you just knew I
already knew he was gonna comeangry this is my approach yeah,
I knew I was standing my ground.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
I knew all that.
Then he said I'll never forget.
He told me you act like youdon't even need me at this point
.
I don't.
He was like you just need aboyfriend that you could fuck.
I was like maybe, so you'reangry he was coming with it hard
.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
I was like maybe so and I know some of it because I
talked to him about he came tothe office and closed the door
one day, so you'd talk yeah yeah, he was pissed like he went to
everybody to find validation inhis point and he couldn't find
it because everybody knew youneed to choose your family.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
But he couldn't see it and I was removing him from
his comfort and then his dad andmy dad told him you need to
follow your family.
Man, that was one of hisarguments.
My, I can't leave my dad and Iwas like I'm good, go and so it
was after a while, after a whilehis family.
No, I'm not gonna lie.
His family gave me hell yeah oh, I'm just now going back around
some of them they gave me, somuch.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
I was like dang, I'm coming hard.
And then my grandmother, youknow you don't.
You don't follow a woman yeah,you know you, you the man you
need.
You know she needs to followyou.
And that was some of the stuffmy uncles and and even my dad,
you know, was saying yeah, man,she needs to follow you.
And that was some of the stuffmy uncles and even my dad was
saying.
So that added to it how no, I'mnot going, you need to stay.
So I called a bluff and likeshe was saying she was like well

(46:30):
, you, no, she wasn't bluffing?

Speaker 2 (46:31):
No, I wasn't.
No, she wasn't.
Were you this calm when youwere letting him?
Oh, yeah, I never raised myvoice.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I didn't go off on him.
He got so crazy.
He listed some ridiculousThings that he wanted In the
house.
Like I want my own.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
We ain't got a whole lot of time.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
He said I want my own Office.
I want to have the entrance ofmy office Separated.
I want a basement.
I want this.
You know what God my officeseparated.
I want a basement.
I want this.
You know what God did?
Gave him all that and moreAin't that so.
And his ass couldn't do nothingbut say damn.
Guess, I'll start back in itwasn't even on the list of
houses we were going to go see.

(47:13):
Our realtor called us and saidhey, I think I got the perfect
house for y'all.
It's not even on the market yet.
And said hey, I think I got theperfect house for y'all.
It's not even on the market yet.
We went to see it, we signedthat same day and boom.
But it took us getting here andthen having one of the hardest,
most brutal conversations Ithink I've ever experienced in a

(47:33):
relationship, because we wereraw and we admitted our flaws
and the things that we did tointentionally hurt each other.
No one was around, it was justhim and I, and he sat me down,
he said let's talk and it wasjust out the blue.
It wasn't planned, it wasn't wewere arguing or we were mad, it
was just a random conversationand it clicked for us.

(47:54):
And that was seven years intoour marriage.
But the last 10 years I can saywe have fought every fight
together.
Before we were fighting againsteach other, but we knew we
wasn't going to give up on eachother.
We just was riding it, ridingthe shit out, till the wheels
fell off.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
I love that.
I love that, the idea offighting every fight together.
I always say, you know, to meit's whatever problem is,
whatever arises, it's not meversus you, right, it's me and
you versus the problem.
Problem is here, it's ugly.
Sometimes it's my fault that aproblem even exists, sometimes
it's not, but what you trying?
to say it's always my fault.
What'd I say?
Every time the problem it'syour fault, it's my fault, right

(48:37):
?
However, the problem takes on apersonality of its own.
It exists, so now it needs tobe you and I who are facing that
problem and saying how we'regoing to navigate through it,
and I love what you said earlier, when you are able to
compartmentalize differentaspects of our relationship.
I never thought of it that wayand it's like it was clicking,
yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
And I heard marriage put this way and it's the best
way to explain it marriage is isbasically two imperfect people
who refuse to give up on eachother.
That's right.
Your goal in marriage and thisis what I've been, we've been
living by for the last 10 yearsis we wake up, first of all,
thanking God that we did wake up, but choose to do something to

(49:20):
elevate that person so they canhave a great day.
And then, as long as it'sreciprocated, that was one of
the good recipes that we kind ofput together and kind of did
daily yeah, I always go in hisoffice.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
If I know he frustrated, I'll do something
silly or I may come hug him andhe'd be like I don't want a hug,
I don't want a hug and I'm likeno energy transfer since, um,
you're a little aggressive rightnow and I'm not give me a hug.
He's like I don't want a hug.
And it calms him down because Ido believe in energy, because

(49:54):
if he gets too frustrating andI'll be like you're messing up
my energy, like you're bringingyour negativity over here, so
I'm gonna need you to go awayfrom me because I refuse to be
in that space and it brings himdown, just making him realize
and reflect on where his mindsetis right at that moment, like I
told him what the other day you, you woke up choosing violence.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
I was, like you, just Just woke up man Like.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
So we found these little tricks Because we both
Work at home, so we're not Apart.
A lot Like we went from InMemphis when we barely Saw each
other.
I probably saw him Like three,four hours Out the day and
that's like when he giving upGetting dressed To leave, you
know, and then Yikes.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
But it wasn't you know, and then, but it wasn't
you know.
And I get home off work andleave before she got home.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
He'll wait for Mary to go to sleep, mary and Thomas
go to sleep, and then he'd begone.
It was like I wasn't mad.

Speaker 4 (50:51):
I can't believe you dealt with me like that.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
No, you dealt with me too because I wasn't perfect.
I didn't give you a safe spaceeither, because I shut down.
He would leave the house at,let's say, 10 am.
I wouldn't call him at allbecause you left.
So I don't, I don't care,you're out there in the streets,
be out there.
So I didn't give him a safespace and he said well, my
cousin's wives, they all calledand checked on him.

(51:15):
I'm like, oh, okay, so that wasmy Gemini side of me coming out
saying I don't give a fuck whatyou do out there.
But that wasn't what he neededeither, and he kept telling me
that, that he needed somebody tobe that reassurance.
And I couldn't give him thatbecause he wasn't making me feel

(51:35):
safe anymore.
And I saw the things that hewas going through, though he
thought I didn't.
I saw the receipts.
I saw you know the drunkenstupors and you know smoking
weed a lot and I was like thisis a lot, but it's okay.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
And this is the growing pains that we were
talking about.
We learned each other in themarriage, but again, the most
important thing about it is that, although we was having these
challenges, we never gave up oneach other.
Right, it's the bestrelationship which it should be
in my marriage that.
I've ever had.
My guards are totally down.
I'm more vulnerable than I'veever been.

(52:11):
We didn't like I said, we didn'ttalk about money.
You know, my money was my money, her money was her money.
We put what needed to be in theaccount to pay the bills.
If Money was my money, hermoney was her money.
We put what needed to be in theaccount to pay the bills.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
If the bill was $95.22, I put $95.22.
Not 23, not 24.
He wasn't rounding shit up$95.22.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Yeah, that's what it was so at what point did finance
become something that you guysopened up about when?

Speaker 4 (52:38):
we got here, when we got here, because everything
changed in Georgia.
Yeah, everything changed inGeorgia because I was pulled
from an environment that I wasaccustomed to, that I was
comfortable with.
So we came here and we didn'thave anybody but each other.
So I couldn't go to my sister'shouse and stay over there the
night.
We fought it out, talked it outor whatever we needed to do,

(52:59):
because it was just us.
I think that the death and thesickness, and just realizing
that she's my best friend youknow now I don't do anything
without it I call it and tellher.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
He share his location with you.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
I did not share my location.
When did that start this year?

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Last year, yeah, damn so 16 years this year, last
year, yeah, damn.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
So let me say before then he was, we was he.
Only reason why he didn't sharehis location because he never
shared it with anybody.
And he got mad because he waslike we're such as.
I was like, oh, let me look attheir location.
He was like wait a minute, whyam I the only one that don't
have their location?
I said because we don't haveyours.
So unless you want, to showfunny if you want ours.
And it was just because of thatprivacy, not because he was
doing anything, because hell, hewas at home.
It was just like, okay, let meshare it.

(53:46):
And I was like, oh, okay, weget your location, you could be.
You know, that's the finalstraw of being in our cycle so
I'm totally in it, totally youknow, but he I'd never forget
the pride.
Conversation with finances cameup.
Okay, for one, I've never paidour utility bills since we've
been together.

(54:06):
I failed us one time and thelights got cut off.
It wasn't even about having themoney.
I forgot to pay the bills.
So he was like, from here onout, you would never pay a
utility bill, never look at them, don't even know how much they
cost, I don't know anythingabout them.
So his money came up short.
This was when we first moved in, and you know he's 100

(54:28):
commission.
He was like, hey, I just needyou to pay this utility bill and
it ate him up that I didn'tsend him the money, I just went
online and paid it and he waslike what you trying to say I
can't pay the bills?
Now I was like what the fuckdoes this mean?
I was like I thought I wasbeing helpful handy over here.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
I was in my feeling he was, he was in his feeling
it's tough to ask man.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
It was tough for him to ask, and then it.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
It hit him harder because he wasn't logging in to
pay it and I had never done itbefore.
But I'm like, oh, I'm going tobe self-sufficient and I'm going
to do it for him so he have oneless thing to work.
Never again have I paid you topay me.
It was a hard conversation forhim because ADT in Memphis and

(55:17):
ADT in Atlanta was totallydifferent and the amount of
money he was making plummetedsubstantially.
He was like wait, I gave up allthis for our family.
So we had to have realconversations about finances and
it was a tough period for us.
But we got through it throughconversations.

(55:41):
You know, it wasn't like soonas we moved to Atlanta aha, all
glories.
It took us probably anotheryear or two.
That's the total of the sevenyears.
It took us about a year or twoto like really figure it all out
.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
And then we were like , ok, we got this, we're good,
I'm going to say something andin that conversation that we had
, I had to admit that part of itwas the fact that I was being
resentful because I had to moveto Georgia.
So I put a lot of pressure onher for the bills and money.

(56:17):
I didn't go, probably go ashard as I could because I didn't
want to be there anyway.
So I'm like you got us here,you figure it out.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
If you need, we need some money for something.
I don't got it.
I don't got it, is that right?

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, I don't got it, You'll say I don't got it.
And I went.
I never yelled at him, I nevergot mad, I got.
I was hurt a little bit in myfeelings behind the scenes, so
he admitted that I cried becauseit validated what I was feeling
that whole time, Like it justdon't seem like he care enough

(56:55):
for me and I told him thank you,Instead of going off and
getting mad or any of that, foryou to be man enough to sit here
and tell me I was beingresentful.
I forgive you.
I'm your wife.
I know I'm going to be the onethat's going to carry us
sometimes and if I was in itjust for the comfort or the
glorious days only, I wasn'tever in it the right way.
It's not marriage Right.

(57:15):
So I respected him enough tounderstand you broke me in
finances.
You grew in your relationshipwith the children.
That was my biggest driver withhim.
He was missing critical timesin our kids' lives.
I get our son, but a daughterneeds to see how her dad shows

(57:36):
up.
I needed him to date her.
I always told him you have todate your daughter so she can
understand what's out there inthis world and what to expect
from a man.
And the first learning place iswith him.
And he did.
He showed up for her, he, hedid what I needed him to do as a
father.
So I can forgive what he didn'tdo for me and I know that's

(57:59):
probably stupid, but no, not atall.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
But you also have to realize if someone didn't know
you guys, they would swear.
You guys are in the honeymoonphase, so the time that you have
ahead of you is a lot more thanwhat you had behind you.
So if there were some bumpsalong the road, it doesn't
really matter, because thosebumps made you who you are today
and you survived the worsttests.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
I believe, yeah.
So from watching that, We'vegone through a lot.
Yeah, and that's why I say wenow have come to that conclusion
.
He used to always tell me youcan't leave me because if you
get a boyfriend I'm just goingon y'all dates with you.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
What move are we going to see what restaurant?
I don't want that.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Like we.
Just we don't even stay.
Honestly, I would say in thelast 10 years or whatever years
we've had now, we have probablybeen mad at each other for about
24 hours max.
We just don't get into it toooften because if we do, I make a
joke out of it or he makes ajoke out of it because we figure

(59:05):
you know why live in the anger.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
So is that how you resolve conflict?
Or, and better question is, howlong does it take you to
resolve conflict?
Because we have our own formula, and I'm not sure if it's even
a formula, but I found thatthat's just.
There's a pattern and I'verecognized the pattern.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
What's the pattern?

Speaker 3 (59:21):
step Generally it's about 48 hours at least.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Oh, that's too long.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
I know so, cause I've actually come to that
conclusion.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
I am a very vengeful person.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Right Full 10 toes down.
Stand on business.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I stand on business.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Yeah.
Like I'm working on it, butdon't cross me.
But you know the problem, youknow so.
You know.
The issue with that is that noone wants to keep taking the
first steps, just like whenyou've mentioned in the past and
you've said I always have tosay something when something's
wrong.
You'll be silent and Irecognize it and I go.
She's right, because initiallymy first thought was, if I'm

(59:58):
dealing with something that Idon't like, I just shut down and
it's a trigger for her becausethat's not a good place and
that's not something she wantsto have in her own household.
Like to be uncomfortablewalking around with someone,
just mad.
So now I'm like, okay, cool,I'll say something, but I may
not be able to talk about itright away.
So here's my thing.
I'm older and I don't want tosound all morbid and shit, but

(01:00:23):
there's more years behind me,there's are in front of me, yeah
, and I met you at an age whereI feel like, god, I wish I met
you at 25.
Now, I sucked at 25.
I was just not a good boyfriend, not a good person, but I wish
in my mind, I imagine, that youwould have made me a better
person, or at least I pointed mein the right direction.
So today I go every time that wedon't talk or something lingers

(01:00:44):
.
I'm literally just watching theclock.
So when we have that fight,even if we don't have it
immediately, I'm always goingdamn, now it's 12 hours, now
it's been 24.
Now it's two days and it justtakes a toll on me.
So I don't know what the answeris, but I guess what I'm asking
is how long do you guys takebefore you go?
I don't care what's going on orhow bad it is.

(01:01:06):
This is the limit.
We don't go more than six hours, 12 hours.
Give each other time to cooloff before we have to resolve it
.
Do you have that in your life?

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
I don't.
It's no time clock um per sefor us.
The way I look at it now isthat I'm not going anywhere.
I mean, I'm not finna be in thehouse upset with you.
Let's go ahead and talk it out.
If we can't, and let's just moveforward, Because it's more
stressful for me to be upsetwith her.
We can talk it out because I'mnot leaving.
Okay, she's not leaving.

(01:01:36):
I would rather us rectify thesituation, talk through it and
be all right.
So I don't want to go to bedmad.
Really, think about what you'remad at.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Right, it'd be something so small.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
It's not worth it because, and what death has been
around us has taught me, youhear today gone in a second yeah
.
So I don't want a second to goby to where, if something
happens to her or somebody andthey die, I'm like man.
We were mad at each other whenthey died.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
I don't want that, yeah but I do know when not to
push him any further.
If he turns around and says I'mdone with this conversation,
let him be, let him process it,let him figure out where his
feelings are, and then I comeback later, maybe an hour or two
, and then I come back once Icome down and I come back and I

(01:02:28):
can either say she was right orI still hold my stance and it's
a matter of just respecting eachother and just know you're
gonna have disagreement.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
she, she had a life and a personality, and all that
before me, I have one, and wejust learn to respect each other
in those confinements or inthose parameters and we're okay
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
There are certain things about me that he can't
change.
It drives him crazy.
There are certain things abouthis personality that drives me
crazy, and I'm a always look atthe glass half full type of
person, and he does not giveanybody the benefit of the doubt
.
Like he is black and, like yousaid, black and white, and it's
hard for him to trust people.
So when he does trust somebodyand they lose that trust, it

(01:03:12):
triggers something in him.
So he'll get frustrated withthings and I'm like, well, in
hindsight, he like, no, that'snot what I want to hear.
So he'll get frustrated withthings and I'm like, well, in
hindsight, he like, no, that'snot what I want to hear.
Or if the kids don'tcommunicate something, I'm
learning, like you know how tocommunicate with him better.
Or we have to tell him certainthings in a certain way.
He doesn't hear it.
Even though I thought Icommunicated, well, he might not

(01:03:36):
have received it.
So I'm like, ok, learninglesson.
Now let let's put it in.
That's why I told you earlier Idocument everything with them.
I put it in the family.
I created a family text soeverybody can go back to
reference what I said.
Because I'm telling things onthe fly, because, as a mother
and a wife, I'm holding a lot ofhats in the house, I'm doing a

(01:03:57):
lot, and then I work all thetime.
So I'm like a lot of hats inthe house, I'm doing a lot, and
then I work all the time.
So I'm like trying to make sureeverybody's schedule is
coordinated, everybody's good,everybody is eating, knowing
where everybody is.
Like they could be sitting inthe house.
He could be sitting right therewith the kids and my son would
be ready to leave and he'd belike where's Thomas going?
I know he just walked past youroffice, but I'm not even at the

(01:04:17):
house.
Why are you asking?
That's funny.
So they like literally tell dadthis, or can you have dad look
at it?
And I'm like we have to have awhole discussion before they
have the discussion so he canprepare himself for the
discussion, and it's like I'mgood with that, I'm okay with

(01:04:37):
that because it makes our housefunction better.
Everybody gets out of theirfeelings, Everybody is
level-headed and if I have toplay that role of neutral ground
, I'll be the traffic director.
But it keeps the peace.
I don't have that much energyto give people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
That's an interesting dynamic, but it works for you
guys.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Let me ask you this, and feel free to jump in here
with this response as well whatis one thing that marriage has
taught you about yourself thatyou didn't know about yourself
until being in the marriageitself?

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
That I can be submissive.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Yeah, based on everything you said earlier, I
imagine you didn't know that youcould even play that role.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
No, I didn't.
I didn't trust myself to trusthim enough to control our
household.
And I'll never forget our vows.
And I hold firm to that,because one thing I told him I
said you will be the foundationof our home.
I wanted him to be thatfoundation.

(01:05:37):
I knew in and of my vows that Iwanted to do it, but I wasn't
living by that.
I was just not submissive.
But when we created that safespace for each other, I realized
I can give him my all.
I can let him tell me what histhoughts are and incorporate it
in my life.
I can listen to him, I can takehis advice and truly apply it

(01:05:59):
to my life, life I can listen tohim, I can take his advice and
truly apply it to my life.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
So how about yourself , willie?
What's something you?

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
just are now finding out about yourself that you
learned through marriage.
I'm strong enough to handle thehead of the household role.
I didn't know that before and Ithink, as I'm sitting here
thinking, even though I saw mydad do it, he was just so much
of a more incredible man, Iguess or a man's man than I was.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Or that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
I thought that I was.
He didn't make it lookeffortless.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
He made it look easy and now that I've made my life
about my family, it made merealize that, hey, I'm strong
enough, I can hold all of themup on my shoulders and I take
fatherhood, I take the husbandrole, I take it very, very
seriously.
I didn't know and I didn'tthink that I can share like that

(01:06:53):
.
You know, it's nothing that sheasked me for now, that I
wouldn't get Like my dad, whichI've always aspired to be, and
knowing that I can do it andthey respect me, they give me
the respect of the man of thehouse and the dad.
So they know, when they come totalk to me, they know that, hey
, first he's going to give methe advice that I need.

(01:07:14):
They may not want to hear itand what I'm going to say, but I
think that they value my inputas being an influence in the
house and you know I really likethat.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
That's awesome, I really like that.
Zola.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Marriage has taught me patience.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
I kind of feel accused.
I'm sorry, I'm trying to keepit together.
I kind of feel like there's abig giant magnifying glass on me
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
No, just it really has.
Because I'm a very short person, short intolerance, I should
say and marriage has taught me,yeah, to be patient and the
importance of compromise,because typically for me, no
means no.
I don't necessarily go out ofmy way to absorb other people's

(01:08:07):
discomfort because your problemis your problem.
I like my peace.
So with marriage I can't thinkthat way, especially when it
comes to you know, comes to mypartner that way, especially
when it comes to you know, comesto my partner, when it comes to
stuff, everything changes.
You know, stuff gets adifferent side of me that the
outside world doesn't get RightRight.
So within our relationship,that those are the two things

(01:08:30):
that marriage has really taughtme.
It's just patience andcompromise, and it's not
necessarily in a negative way.
I mean, he, he is, he wasmaking fun of you for being a
nerd.
He's still a nerd to thissecond right.
So he's telling me shit thatI'm like what the fuck am I
supposed to do with that stuff?

(01:08:53):
it's awesome information soagain, who doesn't want to know
how far the sun is?
Nobody want to know what.
How far the sun is, how far isthe?

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
sun.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
I don't give a.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Exactly, I don't give a shit, I don't.
I hope it stay, however far itis, cause it's hot, even that
far Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
So again Patience.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
So, you know, typically I'd shut a
conversation Down like that.
But this is my husband, I know,this is him, so of course I
have to, you know, entertain it,I have to, you know.
So, again, when I say patience,baby, I don't mean it in a
negative way.
I mean, yes, we have our upsand downs, but patience, you
know, because where I would, youknow, cut people short, I have

(01:09:36):
that space for my husband and I,low key like it, you know,
because that's a part of himthat he's sharing with me.
That I know.
You know I wouldn't sayfactually that not everyone else
gets to see.
So I enjoy that quirky side ofstuff.
So, again, it's just patienceand compromise.
It doesn't have to be negative.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
Yeah, this was a great conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
Totally enjoyed it.
Thank you for being here.
I think this will help a lot ofpeople.
Does anyone have one piece ofadvice for people who are in a
relationship looking to getmarried?

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
up for you.
You're married for the wrongreasons Because that person is
going to grow, that person isgoing to evolve.
It's your job to adjust yourview of them.
Who I married in 2008, I can'texpect him to be that same man

(01:10:33):
in 2025.
For one that doesn't showgrowth at all and he wasn't
ready for the things that wewere going to face.
So don't go into it saying,well, he used to do this for me,
Now he doesn't Find out.
Why?

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Communicate that for either side of the relationship
and know that you need to adjustyour viewpoint based off of it
yeah, beautifully said earliertoday my friend willie, you lost
oh you know he lost the cointoss, so you get so willie your

(01:11:13):
memphis accent you're gonna dowith the memphis accent and
you're gonna sound like gloriayeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
fish accent and you're gonnasound like Glorilla, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you're not already followingthe show, then leave a five
star.
Woo-woo, what the fuck.
It really helps us grow.
If you find value in thisepisode, please share it with
just one person.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
No, no, no, you sound like Roots.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
Thank you so much, merch, for tuning in, and have a
great weekend, great week.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
That was horrible, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
He said uh, Uh and said ugh, ugh, and we from
Mississippi, we from Mississippi.