June 2, 2025 • 51 mins
Testosterone deficiency remains one of the most misunderstood health issues affecting men today. Despite impacting millions of men over 30, myths and misconceptions continue to prevent many from seeking help for symptoms that dramatically affect their quality of life.
In this revealing conversation with nurse practitioner Minal Patel from Game Day Men's Health, we explore the reality of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) beyond the stigma and misinformation. Minal expertly explains how testosterone naturally declines with age and various lifestyle factors, leading to symptoms many men simply attribute to "getting older" – persistent fatigue, depression, weight gain despite exercise, decreased libido, and cognitive challenges.
The discussion clarifies crucial distinctions between medically supervised hormone optimization and performance enhancement, addressing common fears head-on. We learn that proper testosterone therapy isn't about becoming superhuman but rather restoring optimal function for your body's individual needs. Minal details the comprehensive monitoring process that ensures safety, the various treatment options available, and why lifestyle factors like exercise remain essential components of successful therapy.
Perhaps most importantly, this episode challenges the masculine identity issues that often prevent men from addressing hormone health. As Jabari and I share our personal experiences and hesitations, the conversation opens a judgment-free space for men to consider whether their symptoms might have a treatable underlying cause.
Whether you're currently experiencing symptoms of low testosterone or simply want to understand this critical aspect of men's health, this episode provides the medically-sound information needed to make informed decisions about your wellbeing. Don't miss this opportunity to learn how addressing hormone health could help you reclaim your energy, motivation, and zest for life.
Forward this episode to the men in your life who might benefit from this conversation – the information shared could be life-changing. And remember, if you're experiencing symptoms, consult with a qualified healthcare provider who specializes in hormone health.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm trying to decipher what you mean by sex
stimulation goes down.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
No.
So there's these salinizinghormone and then, like
follicular stimulating hormonesthose actually they're in your
pituitary gland but theystimulate your testes.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Generally?
Does it have any side effect onyour sexual performance or your
ability to get or maintain anerection?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
So being on testosterone therapy can
actually help that, if it's youknow if it's a symptom.
Yo, we're around buddy, youknow decrease in sex drive or
not being able to have like yourcorrections.
It can definitely help whenyou're getting on the
testosterone.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
So the side effect would be more in terms of you
trying to Thanks for joining us.
Before we go into today'sepisode, we have a special
disclaimer.
Because of the nature of thetopic, we do need to let you
know that we are not licensedprofessionals and cannot give
medical advice.
We have an expert guest ontoday's episode, but she is not
(00:57):
your expert guest.
Therefore, please consult yourown doctor if you have any
questions or concerns regardingyour health.
Now, before we go into today'sepisode, we need a huge favor.
If you have gotten any valuefrom this, forward the episode
or any of your favorite episodesto a friend and ask them to
(01:17):
give us a review.
That is how other people find us, that's how they find the show
and that is essentially how wegrow.
How other people find us,that's how they find the show
and that is essentially how wegrow.
Seriously, right now, do itbefore you forget.
It takes just a few seconds Intoday's conversation.
Man, this is one you don't wantto miss.
If you're a man over 30, you'llneed to pay very close
(01:39):
attention to what's coming up.
Ladies, if you have a man inyour life who is over 30, make
sure he listens to thisconversation.
What is testosterone?
How does it impact us as men?
How would we know if we'redeficient?
What can we do about it?
And is testosterone replacementtherapy safe?
Is it for you?
On today's show we havereturning champ and co-host
(02:01):
Jabari Pride, and we meet upwith nurse practitioner Minal
Patel.
She is a clinic director atGame Day Men's Health in
Alpharetta, georgia, and as alicensed professional, she
offers a ton of insight.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Welcome back, bro.
Yeah, it's been a while.
Yeah, it has been a while.
I feel like you don't love meor something.
(02:23):
Yeah, no, I've had so manyother guests.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Oh, so they're better than me.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I'm just saying you know people, you're busy, so it
is what it is.
And today we have on the showsomeone that I've been trying to
get on this show for my God Iwant to say months now it feels
like it's been well.
She's extremely busy, and withgood reason.
We have nurse practitionerMinal Patel, who is a clinic
director at Game Day Men'sHealth.
(03:11):
Thank you so much for beinghere with us.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
No problem.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
This stems from what's been going on with me for
the past I'm going to say acouple of years to where I was
feeling lethargic, no energyfeeling I don't want to put a
label on it, but I kind of feellike depressed is the right word
, and I say that loosely because, again, it hasn't been
clinically diagnosed as such,but I kind of feel like I could
(03:36):
use a boost of something energyhelp with whatever.
And I wanted to rule out onething, because I was having a
conversation with a friend andhe mentioned that he said your
testosterone was probably lowand the man in me kind of
attacked right back what youmean, you know what do you mean?
because that's the thing thatmakes you a man.
So the first thing that I heardwas oh, you're a whole woman
(03:57):
now.
Um, so I didn't like that.
Yeah, decided to look into it,decided to check into it and I
think there's a stigma.
I think there's amisunderstanding that we all
have, especially as men,especially if we're that type of
alpha male who just feelswhatever that means, right,
whatever that really means.
But we feel like there'ssomething associated where
there's a shame, and I didn'twant to admit that.
(04:18):
I felt like, no, I'm just asgood as you, 20 year olds.
I could run circles aroundthese guys.
I'm just as strong.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So maybe we'll start out by going over very simple
basics and explain what it isand how it worked and how it
impacts us as men.
Yeah, so testosterone, it'sobviously it's a sex hormone.
Men have a lot of it.
I mean females havetestosterone as well, but in
smaller quantities, where itused to be the highest, like in
your early late teens to likeearly 20s.
From there it does graduallystart to decline.
Most people it could be like aslow, gradual decline.
(04:52):
Others it could be a suddendrop, just due to like their
lifestyle habits, you know, likegenetics, due to drinking a lot
of alcohol, due to gaining alot of weight, sometimes having
some kind of medical conditionlike, let's say, diabetes or
sleep apnea.
All of that can also cause youto have lower testosterone
(05:12):
levels.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So overall, then, there's an expected decline, is
what you're saying.
There could be a rapid declinedue to a medical condition, but
there is an expected decline dueto age.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yes.
So, as you age, your levels canstart decreasing.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Can or will, Just naturally Will they like.
For sure it sounds like.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So let's say somebody is in their 50s but they are
following a good lifestyle,meaning they are following a
good, balanced diet, they areexercising daily.
Then their levels may be highercompared to someone that is not
doing that at their age.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I feel like you've described everything.
That should say that my levelsare in the toilet right now.
Yours, yeah, why?
As far as what do you mean?
Poor diet, gained weight 46next month.
I feel tired all the time, butI also have a nine, seven and
five year old and I probably getanywhere from four to six hours
of sleep at night.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
It's like could it be low?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
T.
Could it be three kids, Like Idon't know.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
That was my thing too .
I wanted to eliminate thetestosterone thing.
I was like I needed to get ittested because I wanted to at
least eliminate that and justsay, well, let's take that out
of the equation, right?
Whatever else is wrong with mehas to be something mental or
something with work or whateverelse, and maybe I'm overworked,
I'm stressed, but I wanted toeliminate that one thing If
(06:32):
there is something I can doabout it, and it seemed like it
was the easiest thing to handle.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I was about to say that it's like you're looking
for the quickest fix.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, well, I'm looking at the thing that if
there are three things I have tofix, if I can fix one, can I
fix this one thing that I'mdeficient in?
What should we look for to feelthat, okay, it's time to get it
checked?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Right.
So if you've been experiencinga lot of like low energy,
fatigue, mood changes,especially like depression, if
you've been noticing that you'reexercising but not able to lose
the weight, you're exercising,you know, four or five days out
of the week, but still notlosing the weight, notice any
changes in your sex drive.
Notice changes in like loss ofum early morning erections so
(07:13):
all the things that men don'twant to admit right, that's
pretty much yeah, are therephysical things?
yeah, yeah, morning erectionlike just like looking in the
mirror, looking like, oh yeahlike so, like weight gain in the
midsection, sometimes weightgain in like the chest area and
the hips, dry skin, especiallyon, like your face, hands
(07:34):
interesting.
So then once that's noticed andwe're not in our 20s, we should
definitely get that checked yeah, it doesn't hurt to get it
checked just to kind of rule outthat aspect of it, right, cause
I mean, obviously fatigue islike a really broad term.
It could be caused due to a lotof different things, right, but
(07:55):
getting that testosterone levelchecked you could kind of get
an idea of if it's contributingto that fatigue that you're
having.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So is there a base level of testosterone where a
man should be?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm sure there's like some type of range.
Yeah, so it's a pretty broadrange, typically anywhere from
like 300 to 1100 even, butobviously, like an optimal level
varies based on the person.
But if you're having symptomsrelated to low testosterone, we
aim for your total testosteronelevel to be at least above 550.
Low testosterone.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We aim for your total testosterone level to be at
least above 550.
So it's possible to be like a1200,.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
But you're tired, you're experiencing all the
symptoms of someone who has lowT.
I mean you could be at a 1200range.
Now our cutoff is at at leastif you're 599 or higher than
obviously you're at atherapeutic level.
So if you're in 1200, that's apretty therapeutic level, or
actually even higher.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But is it?
Is it the inverse the higherthe number you need testosterone
, the lower number you don't, oris it?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
No, no, no, the lower the number.
You need testosterone.
Got it Okay?
Yeah, okay, cause I rememberwhen I got tested, I think I was
somewhere in the 300s, right.
What's interesting is I gottested at a different facility
where my doctor felt, based oneverything else, well, you don't
really need it.
So he wasn't going to prescribeanything, and I'm not sure why
that was because I still feltthe same.
(09:14):
I was listening to anotherpodcast where the guy who's a
doctor on the show he was sayingsometimes, like a 900 for me
might be low, whereas for youit's good enough, a 900 for me
might be low, whereas for youit's good enough, because, again
, different people, differentbody types, different lifestyles
, et cetera, different genetics.
So what he would look at, hewould look at just what's the
normal range, regardless of howI felt.
(09:34):
He felt like, oh you don't needit.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Do you think he just gave you the eye test Like, ah,
he looks like he works out, he'sgood, he's not fat yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
That was a little bit of that it was a little bit of
like I'm not really listening toeverything else you're saying
in terms of how you feel youlook fine.
Whatever's wrong with you isprobably in your head.
Go see somebody else.
He just wants some steroids,yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
But yeah, I'm not here to get you stronger or
whatever, and I still felt thesame way.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I felt so when I came here, went away, I was thinking
I guess he's right, but weekslater I was still feeling
horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
And I wanted to eliminate that.
I didn't even have the energy,as you know, to go to the gym.
Yeah, I didn't want to, just azero drive to even get up and
just go to the gym.
But I thought I needed help andI came here and I got my levels
tested and it was a differentstory.
So when a different facilitysays you're at 300, you're 47
years old, you're fine, that'sthe way it should be, because
(10:28):
according to your age, that'swhere you should be anyway.
Do they have a point in saying,well, it should decline.
So why should we mess withnature?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And can you also explain what TRT stands for and
what it means?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, so a lot of primary care doctors.
If you're getting like yourtestosterone check, they go by
that big broad range which isconsidered normal.
Sometimes it may not go off oflike oh, you're having symptoms
of low T and you're in thisrange, you need testosterone.
Sometimes they don't go off ofthat.
They go off of like that normalrange.
That's probably what happenedwith you Versus here at Game Day
(11:03):
.
We specialize in testosteronereplacement therapy so we look
at your levels but we also lookat your symptoms and go off of,
like I said, if you're belowthat five 50 range, you're
having symptoms and, yes, youprobably you do need
testosterone replacement to helpwith that.
But to answer your question,trt stands for like testosterone
replacement therapy and it's amedical treatment aimed at
(11:26):
raising those testosteronelevels in men that have low
testosterone.
It's a condition Sometimes it'salso referred to like
hypogonadism and it comes inlike different forms.
You could do an injection form,you could do an oral form, you
could do creams, gels.
Most people tend to go with theinjection form because it goes
directly into your muscle andtypically you can take it once
(11:46):
or twice a week or more, buttypically it's once or twice a
week.
There's also like a pellet form.
Those are little tinytestosterone tablets that they
make a little incision in yourskin.
Put it in the fat part of yourskin and they gradually release
testosterone.
It's more of a long term canlast up to like three to four
months.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Okay, okay, okay.
Well, it does sound likeearlier.
The example you were giving wasalmost like if he was the
doctor to talk about his dietand the doctor was like yeah, so
looking at your BMI, you'reobese.
And you look at him, you'relike well, clearly, I think I'm
obese on the BMI scale becauseI'm six feet 200 pounds, so I'm
overweight, but I'm not obese.
So what you do is you reallylook at what's specifically
going on with that individual tothen make a determination like
(12:26):
okay, yeah, I know this generalscale says that you're okay, but
you're not okay, right, Okay,what is free testosterone versus
not free testosterone?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Because I think when they check for like the total
testosterone?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
right.
What is free versus total?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, so free testosterone is basically what's
readily available for your bodyto utilize, and the total
testosterone is in your body asa whole right, so the free.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Free is what matters, then so, yes, free definitely
matters.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So, like my guys that are having symptoms and, let's
say, their total testosterone isabove the limit, like at a
therapeutic level, then we cancheck their free testosterone
level.
If it is low, then we canconsider putting them on
testosterone as well.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Gotcha, I think that maybe that's what a lot of
doctors are checking for yourregular PCP.
They're seeing that youroverall testosterone level is
high enough, but you can't usethat for what we need it for as
men.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The free testosterone is whatwe need in order for us to feel
the energy you know, not befoggy, and you definitely look
into that to make sure it's notjust a blanket.
(13:33):
Hey, you're fine, go home.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, definitely Stop crying.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
How have you been feeling the last three months?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Admittedly, first month made zero difference.
Maybe the first six weeks itmade zero difference and I was
coming here all the time, butthe reason was because I was
just sitting on my ass.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Still, I still wasn't getting in the gym.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And I realized that later because, you know, I even
came in, I saw Manala here andshe asked me the same question.
I was just like oh, it makes nodifference.
She's like are you going to thegym?
I was like no, she's like yougotta need to.
So what happens if you justtake it kind of like what I was
doing, cause I feel much betternow, but when initially I was
(14:12):
taking it and hoping that it wasgoing to be like a magic pill?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Obviously it's not.
I mean, you definitely, yes,you will take the testosterone,
but we want you to utilize it.
You know, to reach that bestversion of yourself, you have to
be eating a well-balanced diet.
You have to exercise, at leastyou know, three to four or five
days in a week.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Not twice like Jabari , not two days.
I knew you were going to saysomething.
Four times a week, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
If you're not exercising, then obviously the
testosterone can just sit thereand cause other effects, right?
We want you to utilize it asbest as you can.
Lose weight, start buildingmore of that lean muscle mass,
burning that fat, uplifting yourmood.
I mean exercising itselfreleases those good endorphins
right.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
When you say utilizing it, just so we're
clear, it means that you need todo all the other things that go
along with that and this kindof gives you can we call it a
boost to kind of help you getthere.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Right.
I mean, sometimes I kind ofexplain it like as a almost like
a supplement.
Let's say you were low in likeB12, which is causing, like the
low energy.
Obviously we recommend takingB12 to boost that up.
So same thing with this.
Yes, testosterone will helpraise your levels up, but you
also, in conjunction, need tomodify your lifestyle.
It's not a magic pill.
(15:30):
If you just take it.
You're not just going to becomeMike Tyson.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
It's not like Popeye and spinach.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
That'd be great.
That's what I thought it was atfirst.
I was like I'm going to takethis and feel awesome, and that
did not happen.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Because if you don't use it, then your estrogen
levels will also climb to matchyour testosterone levels, which
means you'll still have somephysical changes.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So a taken testosterone, I mean it
definitely needs to be medicallymonitored.
That's why we're here.
There's certain levels in yourblood that we need to be checked
periodically Because if they'renot checked then obviously
you're going to get some sideeffects right.
So number one is yourhemoglobin count, or your red
blood cell count.
We keep an eye on that.
Sometimes when you taketestosterone, it actually
(16:15):
increases your red blood cellproduction, which is a good
thing if somebody's anemic.
But if you take testosterone,there's a chance that that red
blood cell count will go up andif it gets too high, then your
blood will get too thick.
It can start affecting yourblood pressure, bleeding, all of
that Other things we monitor isWell.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
how do you handle that Like, if that happens?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
If your hemoglobin levels are up, we obviously hold
off on the testosterone untilit comes back down, or we can
also have you donate blood.
That's an easier fix because itwill help it come down and then
you can stay on the dose that'sworking for you.
Sometimes we may have to godown on your dose based on how
your body's reacting.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Would it make sense to do a blood thinner, maybe
ibuprofen or something?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Not ibuprofen, maybe like a baby aspirin or a fish
oil Aspirin.
Yeah, grape seed oil capsules.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Or you can just donate a pipe and be done with
it and get paid.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, I didn't get paid what they give you donation
right, so you don't get paidyeah, no, I got a t-shirt.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
You need to get paid.
Yeah, I got a t-shirt.
Um what?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
and a cookie, some grape juice.
They didn't give you any food,snack, something else oh,
t-shirts and a what which?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
which clinic is that?
Um yeah, um no, they didn'tgive me a t-shirt.
That was pretty.
That was it.
That was my first time to everdonating blood in my life,
because I don't like needles, soI was like I'm not gonna get
stuck voluntarily, I don't haveto.
That happened to me as well.
Um, so it was elevated and justit just come down.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So and there's obviously like if you're not
drinking enough water, if you'redehydrated, that can also make
it go up.
If you're, let's say, eating alot of red meats, that can also
make it go up because the ironcontent.
So usually we say kind of dored meat in moderation, do more
of your lean meats, and thenthere's like certain conditions
that can also make it go up.
So like if you have likeuncontrolled sleep apnea,
(18:06):
obviously then that can make itgo up.
If sleep apnea is there, we'lltell you to go get a sleep study
done.
Or if you are not using yourCPAP, then we tell you to use it
, so it's controlled.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Gotcha.
So what I'm hearing is one ofthe most important things you
can do.
In fact, the only way youshould do it is to go see a
medical professional likeyourself so that other things
could be monitored, because Ithink that some of the stigmas
and things that are negativethat people are hearing is bad.
Things happen to people whenthey start buying it in the back
of the gym, you know, in thealley and you know they just
(18:35):
take more and more and moreBecause, again, if you take
something, you start to feel thepositive results from it.
You're going to want more.
It just becomes almostaddictive, not in a medical way,
but it makes you want more ofit because that feeling is good
of like I'm getting stronger, etcetera.
But what you're doing is not togive anyone anything to make
them Superman.
You're just bringing them backto normal levels, am I correct?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yes, so normal levels for that person.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
For that person, right, so it's not even normal.
It's like you.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
You're not gonna make me a 20 year old right you
should have said last time thegym was trying to get you to, I
guess, the best version ofyourself, so like a healthier
version of yourself okay right,because low testosterone
obviously can lead to a lot ofmedical issues if not treated
well.
So, like the, you can gainweight that can lead to diabetes
(19:21):
, high blood pressure, highcholesterol levels, which can
lead to diabetes, high bloodpressure, high cholesterol
levels, which can lead to otherthings like stroke, heart attack
.
All of that, so we don't wantyou to have that Right.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
So low testosterone can lead to that.
You alluded to bringing youback to the best version of
yourself, and you measure thatbased on what is it that you
look for?
Is it just the physicality of aperson?
What else?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Also how you're feeling, how your symptoms are
improving.
Typically your totaltestosterone levels as well.
We want to make sure they'recoming to a good optimal range.
On average most people, we tryto get you in that 800, 900
range but you know, let's sayyou are more sedentary, not
working out as much.
Sometimes you may be happier inthat 600, 700 range versus
(20:01):
someone that's vigorouslyworking out.
They may be happier a littlebit above 900 because they're
burning off more of thattestosterone or utilizing more
of that testosterone.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, I'm definitely using it now.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Right, cause we've been in the gym, we're going and
we're going hard.
So, yeah, thanks, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Definitely might need to get that tested again, see
if I need more.
When I hear it, the way I kindof feel about it is I think of
it like someone who is deficientin something else, like a
diabetic.
You're not just pumping someonefull of insulin just for the
hell of it, you're only doing itbecause they were deficient in
this particular thing.
(20:38):
Is that a good comparison?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
It's different from you being a diabetic and getting
insulin right.
Your levels were low.
We're helping it come back upto a good optimal range, so all
those symptoms that you werehaving can be alleviated.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Okay, that makes sense.
Initially your reflex reactionwas I would never do that.
But then you say, well, I'llnever say never, and you kind of
left it open.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So I was an athlete High school and college and
post-college I'll never saynever and you kind of left it
open.
So I was an athlete high schooland college and post-college I
ran track.
So with track the testing isvery stringent, like if your
caffeine levels are too high,you could get banned for like
four years or eight years, whichis could pretty much destroy
your career Right.
So pretty much college andpost-collegiately.
(21:23):
If I had a headache, I wasn'ttaking any medicine.
If I wasn't feeling well, I'dsleep it off Like I didn't want
to put anything into my systemthat could be disqualified.
Exactly so.
That fear was always in me and,like there are people that were
how do I politely say this Wereperforming much better than
they should have been due tothings that they were doing
(21:45):
extracurricularly Right.
So then there's that stigma, sothey were taking some
performance enhancing drugs oh,100%, okay, back in the 2000s it
was HGH, you know.
Before that, steroids were big.
Right, after HGH, trt became athing, but then it had to be
monitored correctly.
Right, there were people I'msure they had a doctor that
could help them be above thelevels that they should have
(22:07):
been.
Right, so there's always astigma of you don't want to be
caught doing anything.
So the best way to not getcaught doing anything is just to
not do it.
So for me it's always been likewhen we were talking about it, I
was like, oh, I could never doit.
It's because it was always.
If I do it, even though I'm notcompeting now, it's still that
those are the people that didthat and I don't want to be one
of those people because I did itthe right way.
(22:29):
You know, maybe I don't finishfirst, but I'm finishing clean
with a good conscience.
Right, that's always been inthe back of my head where it's
like maybe you know, I do get mylevels tested and then you're
like, you're at a 200 Jabari,like kids are not, like your
levels are way too low.
And it would still be tough forme, cause I'm like, ah, I feel
like I'm cheating, even though Idon't have any meets coming up.
I'm never going to run again.
I'm 46.
(22:49):
I'd blow both my hamstrings outif I try to run down the track,
but it's just that.
That's stigma.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, for me, and I'm I'm not the norm, I'm nowhere.
This Cheating to what?
Cheating for what?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Exactly.
I don't have a meet coming up,I'm never going to compete again
.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
All right.
So forget meets right, likeagain ex-athlete myself and all
of that stuff.
Again, my view on it is if I'mdeficient in something like if
it was just B12 or low in iron,I'm not taking iron pills
because I'm not low in iron, soI don't need it, so I'm not
going to have.
Let me have extra iron so Icould be extra strong.
That's not a thing for me.
But I'm deficient in this onething that I need to bring me
(23:28):
back to my normal levels, notabove.
Why do you call that cheating?
To get you back to Jabari Rightnow you're like Jab.
How do we get you back toJabari?
So you're like your whole self.
You know what I mean.
That's the way I would look atit.
Why?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
do you look at it as cheating?
Because if I were to take usback to when we were both 22, I
know that we're not 22, right,but if we were both 22 again and
we were lined up on the lineand my levels were 1300 and your
levels were 1100.
And you looked over at me likedamn it, that guy's bigger than
me, stronger than me, that's notfair.
I'm going to lose this race.
But over the next two weeks I'mgoing to visit Manal and then,
you know, I'm going to be ableto compete with that person.
(24:03):
Right?
It's like well, it's not myfault that I'm genetically
different than you.
It's not my fault, I haven't.
It's and with a ridiculousstride that he can do what he
can do and no other human can do.
It's not his fault that he hasthat genetic advantage.
So why should you penalize meby giving you an equal advantage
(24:24):
to me when you didn't have thatin the first place?
So good point.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Bring me to your levels.
Is cheating Correct?
Bring me to what I need to beat is not cheating.
Does that make sense?
It does make sense.
I'm not trying to become UsainBolt because if I look at
everything genetically, let'ssay I was able to just break
down his anatomy and I was likeeverything that he's got I stick
it into my little five, sevenbody.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I would explode, it wouldn't make sense right.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
But if I'm looking at the exact clone copy of myself,
like it's another version ofmyself, that is optimal.
And then there's me, who'ssuboptimal.
I'm missing all kinds of things.
Maybe this version is notsleeping at all, maybe this
version is having all kinds ofother issues, and all I want to
do is bring it back to thatother version of myself, which
is the best version of myself.
(25:09):
Not to meet me, jabari, because, again to your point, when I
think about that example, I'mstanding next to you and you're
at 1300, I'm at 1100.
Forget those numbers.
I'm looking at the fact thatyou're six feet and you're 4'11"
.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm looking at that you're sixfeet right and I'm in my best
(25:29):
shape, but I have a naturaldisadvantage.
There's a reason, like in yourMMA days, a 200 pound guy is not
fighting 130 pound guy you seewhat I'm trying to clear.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah so, when it comes down to performance, if
it's strictly a performancelike you're trying to elevate
your levels to perform at your20 year old self, for me it's
still like, well, that's notnormal, because a I'm 46.
Could I get my levels back upto when I was 26?
I'm sure you could get me thereand I'm sure I'd look amazing.
(25:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Not necessarily, no no, she can't get you back there
, because that's not normal.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
So this is that's when you were 20.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Go ahead, manon.
So what would be a normalnumber for a normal being a
vague term right, but what wouldbe a good number for a athletic
24 year?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
old.
So, like I said, average totaltestosterone levels usually in
that 800, 900 range.
Actually, it's based off of youas well.
Yeah, and how you're feelingafter you start taking it, and
usually it takes about a monthto three months for you to reach
a good optimal level.
After you, you know, get ontestosterone therapy.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
That makes sense.
Yeah, you would never walk intoa legit facility and say make
me like I was when I was 20.
They would laugh you out of thebuilding if they're a legit
organization.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
They say go to Mexico .
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, go somewhere else with that, because we can't
do that for you.
Yeah, right, but could I be thebest 50 year old version of
myself?
Because there are 50 year oldswho run circles around a bunch
of 20 yearyear-olds becausethey're in phenomenal shape.
We're part of that select few.
I mean, how many 20-year-oldsdo we know that we can just like
run around them in the gym?
Could you be the best46-year-old version of yourself
right now, to where everything'skind of balanced.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So, once again, if it's strictly for performance
and what I mean by performanceis like going to the gym playing
sports with my friends Iwouldn't want to do TRT to do
that, because I feel like at thelevels that I currently have, I
can do that without the extraTRT.
Now, if it's, do you want towake up feeling refreshed?
Do you want to not be tired allthe time?
(27:26):
That's something different.
If TRT was a cure for that,then it's like I could care less
.
If I perform better, If I canget through my day without
needing a nap, that'd be great,right, Because whether it's TRT
or it's, I'm sure I have sleepapnea.
My wife tells me, like I thinkyou're dying.
You just stopped breathingSomething.
I need to do something,obviously, because it's just not
(27:46):
having three kids.
There's definitely somethinggoing on and you get to figure
it out.
But I mean, if TRT is theanswer, then TRT is the answer.
If the CPAP machine is theanswer, a CPAP machine is the
answer, right.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I think you're also using an additional word here.
That's creating more of amisconception, even in your own
head.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
What is?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
that you keep saying extra.
No one's trying to give youextra.
Well, it would be extra to mylevels that I currently have.
Still not extra right, becauseif you don't have what you
should have, let's say nothingelse, like your body was working
perfectly.
But what do you mean by shouldhave?
Because there's a certainamount that you should have to
where you should be to performat your level.
But there are other things thatagain keep me honest that bring
(28:25):
that number down, whether youdon't get enough sleep, whether
it's stress, whether it's somany other things that
accelerate that decline to where, if you were sitting on an
island and life was good and youwere farming and you were just
chilling and you exercised everyday and you didn't have any
stress and all your concerns,maybe your levels will be higher
.
But we live in a very stressfulworld.
(28:46):
Both you and I are in cells andwe run our own businesses and
things are very, very stressful.
We don't sleep, you have babies, so it's declining that.
It's not giving you the timethat you need to even get to the
gym, so all of those things aretaking that number and
declining it even more rapidly.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
In my head because of the stigma that I've had for so
long.
I would rather do somethingelse than do TRT.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
What's something else ?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
CPAP machine right, go to bed earlier.
Like we got home from the gymyesterday.
I didn't go to bed till 2am, Ithink.
My aura ring said I got fourhours and 15 minutes of sleep
and I was like, oh, not a badnight.
Now, if I fix those things, I'mstill tired, still can't get
rid of, like, the weight aroundmy stomach.
Then it's like, all right, letme, uh, let me see what the TRT
can do for me.
Yeah, it's just hard for me tomake that jump in my head
(29:32):
because I was, I had to be, sonegative towards any type of
performance enhancing drug Notnot that you know you guys are,
not that you're peddling PEDsout of your clinic, but that's,
that's what it was for me forsuch a long period of my life?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Is it that again with yeah, right, but if you modify
your lifestyle and you're stillhaving these symptoms and
definitely come in and get thoselevels checked, come in for the
consult where we could, youknow, kind of go over your
health history in more detailand come up with a plan would
(30:07):
you consider trt or is itconsidered a performance
enhancing drug?
Are you talking more like uh,anabolic steroids?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
well, yeah, in the context that he's using it in,
because, again, it does enhanceyour performance.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And I'll give you a real world example.
So in MMA specifically, therewere some fighters that were
great when they were in their20s.
They looked amazing.
I'm not going to call anybodyout because it's going to live
on forever.
They got older, they got totheir 30s and they physically
didn't pass the same eye testright, they got softer then trt
um in their 30s yeah, okay, um,they weren't built like superman
(30:42):
.
They were still had muscles, butthey just weren't like.
You could see every singlestriation in their abs, right.
Then trt was made legal in theufc and then those 35, 36, 37
year olds look like they were 21, 22, 23 year olds.
I'm sure some of them weretaking advantage and going above
where they needed to be.
Right, there was some abuse.
They were allowed to do thatfor a few years and then they
(31:05):
said, all right, this is gettingout of control.
So they made it illegal again.
And then those 30, now 36, 37,38 year olds look like 36, 37,
olds and they were gettingknocked out I can guarantee you,
I'm not there, I'm not in theirworld, I can 100 guarantee you.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
and I hate that brett's not here because he
would have been able to attestto this.
Yeah, they weren't going to adoctor to just get him back to
normal range.
No, these guys were trulyenhancing their performance
because they know I'm gonna gofight you, I'm going to go in
the ring with you, I'm going topush it to the human limits
because I'm about to get knockedout if I don't.
(31:40):
So that's different.
So I think in that world you'reabsolutely right, it exists in
that world, and there's a bigdifference between that and the
normal world that we live in, soit was labeled as a PED because
it did enhance theirperformance.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So, sorry the example , like anabolic steroids is one
of them and where these athletesuse these animal extrudes to
improve their performance,improve their muscle mass, but
they are using it at such a highlevel where it can cause a lot
of harm in the longterm versusTRT.
You are taking it for low Tlevels and you're getting it
(32:19):
monitored.
It's not like nobody ismonitoring.
A medical professional ismonitoring it.
So, if there's any harm beingdone, then we can adjust your
dosing, we can stop you all ofthat.
But versus anabolic steroids,people are just taking it.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
With one goal.
The goal is to go fight thatguy on Sunday here.
I don't have a fight coming up,I just want to live, I want to
be with my kids.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But to go back to your question, TRT is a PED.
Here's the problem with theterm PED.
Whenever you hear the term PED,you automatically think the
worst possible thing.
Right, but it's stilltechnically enhancing your
performance.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
So it's a vitamin, then in that case, right,
because it's a drug.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I don't think vitamins are more of a
supplement.
They're not technically a drug.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I guess technically they're a drug it's testosterone
that's made in your body fromyour testicles a drug it's?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
it's a sex hormone, right?
The testosterone replacementthat we especially like the
injections.
It's a synthetic form oftestosterone but when you inject
it in your body, your receptorsthey're not able to tell, tell
it apart, right?
So they think it istestosterone versus like.
If you did like the pellets,those are bioidentical to the
testosterone in your body butyour body still reacts the same
(33:27):
way to either one right.
Look at it long term.
These symptoms that you'rehaving, like depression, let's
say the sleep issues, let's saynot being able to exercise, not
being motivated that can lead toother things down the line and
that is definitely going toaffect your health right.
I mean, major things are youdon't want to end up with, like
(33:47):
diabetes, cardiovascular disease, which causes even worse things
like heart attacks, strokes,cancer, all of that being
overweight have been known toseen with, like some cancers as
well.
So, if you start treating thesesymptoms now, if it's due to low
testosterone, then obviouslyit's going to Decrease your risk
of getting these cardiovasculardiseases become diabetic.
(34:10):
All of that.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
So I'm happy you brought that up.
Long term, so is Steph supposedto take TRT for the rest of his
life, because he's always goingto be catching up right?
It's a good question, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
So once you start, yes, it is a lifelong thing, but
I mean, obviously you can stopit anytime you want.
But just know, yes, you will goback to the levels that you're
at possibly lower because youare aging as well.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Right, so does your body.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off, but does your.
Let's say he starts.
Well, he started three monthsago.
Let's say he takes it foranother 10, 15 years and now
he's like you know what?
I'm not going to the gymanymore.
I'm fat and happy.
I'm good.
Right, I'm good, I'm not takingit anymore.
Will his levels then dropfurther down than where he
normally would have been,because his body is like well,
we don't need to create whatwe've been creating, because
(34:57):
we're getting it Right Fromoutside of the body.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yes, so when you stop it, I mean it definitely takes
a little while for your um,those sex hormones to start
kicking back where you're makingyour own testosterone.
But I mean there's othermedications that we recommend
sometimes, especially for guysthat are younger or want to
continue having kids.
There's medications that youcan take that keep stimulating
those sex hormones.
If you did decide to come offthe testosterone, you won't feel
(35:24):
that big dip when you stop it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Speaking of having kids, if you're 30, 35 years old
, obviously I'm not having kidsanymore.
You don't need any more kids.
Dude, I'm assuming you're done,yes, Cool.
So you got your three, you'redone.
Yes, so, but for a 30 year old,35 year old, maybe newly
(35:49):
married or remarried?
What are the risks and what'sinvolved with someone who's
definitely going to have morechildren?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Right, I mean.
So if you're actively trying tohave kids, then we hold off on
you getting on testosterone tobegin with, but let's say, down
the line a year later, two yearslater you did want to start
trying.
Two years later you did want tostart trying.
Yes, you could taketestosterone, but we usually
(36:15):
recommend getting on amedication called gonadalrelin
which keeps those sex hormonesstimulated, so your body's
producing its own naturaltestosterone as well.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Why would it prevent you from having kids having the
extra testosterone in yoursystem?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
So when you are taking the testosterone it's
like your body's like, okay, hehas enough testosterone.
So those sex hormones thatusually stimulate those testes,
they do take a break.
So that's why someone that'syoung wants to continue having
babies.
We usually recommend doing thegonadalrelin to help keep those
sex hormones stimulated and thesperm count up.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It would be harder to get an erection.
I'm trying to decipher what youmean by sex.
Stimulation goes down.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
No.
So there's um thesesolutinizing hormone and then
like follicular stimulatinghormones those actually they're
in your pituitary gland, butthey stimulate your testes to
produce sperm and in turn, alsobuild sperm as well.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Got it, so your sperm count can go down.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes, got it Sorry, I meant testosterone and make the
sperm count go up.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Late in the day.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Generally?
Does it have any side effect onyour sexual performance or your
ability to get or maintain anerection?
Speaker 1 (37:25):
So being on testosterone therapy can
actually help that if it's asymptom.
Yo, we're out, buddy, you knowdecrease in sex drive or not
being able to have like yourerections.
It can definitely help whenyou're getting on the
testosterone.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So it's just really the side effect would be more in
terms of you trying to havekids, and that's when you need
to be watched by.
And I like what you said alittle while ago, because you
said you would not even get themstarted If someone came to you
and said I want to have kids.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
And that's the point of coming to a medical
professional as opposed to, youknow, buying it from Joe at the
gym, right.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I think that was one of the uh kind of like
the those massive, massive bodybuilds that are on all the jugs,
their testicles shrink upbecause the body's just like we
need to stop.
Well, I don't know what allthey were taking right, yeah,
everything but the testosteronepart.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
like I said, it can cause testicular shrinkage
because it decreases your spermcount.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I don't need sperm.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
You need to take more TRT so you don't have any more
kids.
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Now, obviously don't think of being on testosterone
as like a birth control.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It's the perfect male birth control Make me stronger
and not have any more kids.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
That's actually a good point.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
You could still you know, get somebody pregnant.
Don't think of it as a birthcontrol but it can decrease.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
No, I had a hysterectomy, so I know Is that
what it's called for meVasectomy, you mean.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, the hysterectomy, I knew it, I knew
it.
I knew it.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Oh my God, I got snipped.
I should just stick to that.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I took all your ovaries out for a second.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
I took all the ovaries out.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
My ovaries are gone.
I can't have babies.
Man, oh my God.
Thank God this isn't aneducational show.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
We are leading them astray.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
A couple of other questions that we do have Once
someone starts.
You mentioned that they getresults typically in about a
month to three months beforethey start seeing results.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, To get to a good optimal range.
We've seen anywhere from amonth to three months, sometimes
longer if we are adjusting yourdosing based off of the other
lab work that we monitor.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Gotcha, gotcha, but you have to be working out,
though, to see results.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I mean, obviously we do recommend that, yeah, because
somebody came in to me a monthin there.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
He was like, uh, hey, can we start going to the gym?
I was like, ah, yeah, no, no,no, no, like we need to start
now.
I was like, yeah, I guess, man,I don't know why.
He's like I'm on TRT.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
We got to have a long conversation after six weeks.
Yeah, yeah, sure enough, I camein after six weeks and the
question was how are you feeling?
Just hear mumbling on, nothing,no difference really.
And she's like are you going togym?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
nah, just not doing anything he must have called me
right after your conversationyes, he was like we need to go
to the gym tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, yeah I was like find somebody that'll motivate
you to go there.
So you were him.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
So are there other risks for someone, obviously to
be monitored and go into aprofessional clinician, and is
there a point to where it's justlike don't even bother, you're
too old, you're 65 years old.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Maybe you shouldn't even start at this point,
because whatever you're feeling,you should be feeling I mean
there's obviously somecontraindications, like if you
have prostate cancer ortesticular cancer, if you have,
like, severe kidney disease,severe liver disease, I mean if
you have severe like heartfailure or even uncontrolled
sleep apnea, then obviously wedon't recommend you being on
(41:07):
testosterone therapy okay but asfar as like you were talking
like some side effects, oranything risks to watch out for.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Someone who's just like if there is a side effect,
I'm going to get it.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Right, For example for me.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I just like I've been blessed and really like healthy
on my entire life.
So if I got an antibiotic andthey're like this might give you
diarrhea, I will get it,because every drug has every
effect that it could possiblyhave on me.
It will have on me If I takeone pill for a headache, I'm
good.
My wife may need three pillsbecause she's like her
(41:41):
resistance is a lot higher.
So for someone like me, who'skind of like maybe more
skeptical, was thinking arethere any side effects and how
will they impact me?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Right.
I mean that's the reason why wesay to get it medically
monitored right.
There are certain levels thatwe have to check.
If they're not right, yes, itcould cause you to have some
side effects, like if your bloodgets too thick, that can affect
your blood pressure, that canaffect your bleeding, if your
estrogen levels get too high,you can start getting like
nipple sensitivity, gynecomastiaor increase in breast tissue,
(42:11):
mood swings, bloating, weightgain, decrease in your sex drive
.
There's like lesser known sideeffects, like acne.
Sometimes people can have acneand that could depend on like
what type.
If you're on a super high doseor not, dosage adjustment needs
to be made.
Sometimes hair loss can occuras well.
And another thing we monitoryour prostate level as well
(42:32):
because we want to make sure youdon't have prostate cancer,
because obviously, if you haveprostate cancer, you cannot be
taking testosterone therapy.
That is why it has to bemedically monitored to make sure
we can manage any side effectsthat could be occurred.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Gotcha, gotcha, while you're doing therapy, is there
an age that you would just sayno, I don't recommend you even
starting 85.
Yeah, 85, yeah, that's what.
I'm saying If an otherwisehealthy man and there are some
dudes out there in the 70s, wesee them in the gym.
They're looking phenomenalWould you say there's a certain
age that you would just say no.
(43:07):
I don't think you should startat this point.
Yeah, certain age that youwould just say no.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I don't think you should start at this point.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, if you're like 85 and older, definitely, but if
I'm, if I'm the sexy grandpa at75.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
If you're having symptoms that are, you know,
dramatic, then that coincidewith having low testosterone.
Then possibly dosages could bedifferent for them versus
someone that's in their forties.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Okay, what does a visit to get everything started
look like here at game day?
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Typically we'll schedule you with an appointment
.
There's some forms that we'llsend you that you'll just fill
out online, just like a basicintake form telling us about,
like your health history, whatyou're interested in.
That will save us time.
So when you come in, ourmedical assistant will take you
back, check your vitals, drawyour blood and then, once we get
your blood, we check your totaltestosterone level here in the
(43:57):
clinic.
Typically takes about 13minutes after the blood spun and
then, once we get that level,you'll get to see me or one of
our other providers and we'llbasically start your consult
based on you know, symptoms,your history and then also your
testosterone level.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Do you find a lot of people come in and they're
perfectly fine and you just go?
Yeah, you just need to go Takeyour ass out because it's not
testosterone.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, so we get some that just want to know their
levels.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Okay, when they're perfectly good.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Some that are also like at a therapeutic level
where they may not need it.
But there's alternatives, likeI said, that we also offer, like
vitamin therapies or even likepeptide therapy, could be an
alternative.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Is this covered under medical insurance at all?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
no, it's not, is it?
Speaker 2 (44:44):
elective versus right .
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So a lot of insurance companies kind of go off of
that normal range.
If you are in that normal range, then they'll be like why
should we cover it?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, so if you're below the normal range, then
it's possible that they couldget it Possible.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
And by normal.
They're looking at the overall.
They're not looking at the freetestosterone again, which,
again, is what we need to focuson for what we're talking about
here.
Right, we are in Alpharetta,georgia, so for our Georgia
listeners, how do they find you?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
I mean online.
You can go to our websitegamedaymenshealthcom, and
there's obviously severallocations in Georgia, but you'll
see all the locations that areavailable.
The initial consult is free.
Once you sign up, we go overall the investment details.
You know, there's gonna be awhole lot of dudes that go, oh,
(45:35):
free consult.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
We do get that yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Well, that's what it gets them, you know, in the door
.
It gets them in the door, yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
That's what got me in the door.
I mean, it was a free consult.
I was like, well, let me atleast find out.
Right, once I found out, Ifound that the experience here
has been very transparent.
It's been extremely helpful,educational.
Every time, you guys well youspecifically when we have a
conversation, I always feel likeyou're teaching, and it's not
just here I'm advising this, butI'm going to teach you
(46:00):
everything that you need to know, which is very helpful to me,
and I think that if more doctorsand clinicians approached it
that way, then we'd have, Iguess, more people looking into
it, because that's what's alwaysbeen kind of a little daunting
to me.
I don't like doctors, I don'tlike going to them.
I don't want to go, I feel likenothing's wrong with me and by
the time I show up I'm like-.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Everything's wrong.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Everything's wrong I waited so long and it compounded
into five other things that Icould have prevented.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, I mean it definitely helps to keep you
well-informed, explaineverything where you're able to
understand it well, instead ofusing, like, medical jargon in
there.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
I mean I will say for me right now, like again going
to the gym with Jabari here, butmy sons, they've joined us as
well.
So I don't know about you, butlike for me, I feel like even
when I don't want to go, I gofor them.
So then I'm like forced to go,and that's exciting and just to
watch their own transformation.
So I'm definitely utilizing it.
Oh yeah, you know utilizing it,Cause we're going in the gym,
(46:59):
we're going hard.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
We're going heavy.
I was like how much did you do?
I did 10 reps, Cool, and thenhe'll do 11.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'm like that's motivation.
I told him to find someone thatwill motivate you.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
Oh we got it.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
To competitive people .
Speaker 1 (47:13):
It's good that you're getting your sons to come with
you as well, because, I mean,you're kind of, you know, being
an idol for them to also startbeing a healthy version.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, can't wait for them to be stronger than me.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Not the case right now.
It's not going to be able tolift you up.
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Exactly.
Thank you so much for theconversation, the education you
know just Dispelling some mythsand rumors.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
And definitely let's get you on the schedule.
Yeah, I knew you were going tosay that, yeah, check your
levels.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Check your levels.
It's a free consultation.
So is it blood, is it urine, isit saliva?
Speaker 1 (47:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Saliva.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
I wish Good.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
No, we'll draw your blood and get two tubes.
Not too big, it's not a lot ofblood.
I hate needles, bro.
I hate needles too.
I know, dude, you have no idea.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I still look the other way.
I can't stick myself because,oh, speaking of which, the
injections, because that's whatI opted to do.
Yeah, and I kept coming in andher medical assistant kept
saying you know, she would sayyou know, you could do this
yourself, you don't have todrive an hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
No, I can't.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I'm like there's no way I'm sticking myself with a
needle I don't care how muchtime you show me how to do it um
but you can always get yourspouse to do it.
That's what she's been.
They're usually happy aboutpoking no no, Well, she's happy
about it, but my God a littletoo happy.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You can watch those dishes.
No, okay, cool, let me do yourinjection now.
No, so okay.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
I fidget a lot and I I really kind of act like a baby
about it.
Come on already.
Well, it's not that bad, I'mjust like it is that bad.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
I mean it's going into the muscle, not the, not a
vein right no, it's going inyour muscle.
Yeah, she can just close hereyes and do it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly that's what I feel like she's
been doing.
Boom, I'm like you're in theretoo long and I'll complain.
And I'll say you know, when I'min the clinic they're just kind
of like poking.
They just take it out realquick.
I'm like you, I feel likeyou're dragging it out slowly
and you're taking too long.
She's like well, go there thenstop bothering me, just go there
and get it done.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
She's trying to hit a bone, but yeah, hopefully she's
not going in your bone.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
Nah, she's doing a good job, but I do.
I do.
It's needles, it's just me andneedles it's my own personal.
I couldn't do it sometimesdistraction, distraction helps.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Maybe watching tv oh I know it's just drop and
needles.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
It's my own personal.
I can do it Sometimesdistraction uh distraction helps
maybe watching TV.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
Oh, I know it's coming, just drop it on your leg
Sell that up, all right.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
So hey, we didn't flip a coin today.
So traditionally, what we do atthe end of the show is someone
who loses just says and teasesthe next episode and just the
out does the outro.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Why eases the next episode and just the?
Speaker 2 (49:55):
out does the outro.
Why is everybody looking at me?
Because one of you guys do it,because one of you and all you
have to say is thanks forlistening how about the rock?
Yeah, how do you?
I?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
don't know how to talk like the arnold.
Okay, all right, jabari, you'regonna do arnold, take us out,
brother welcome to anotherexciting episode of manhood
matters.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
Next week, we'll be talking about something amazing
as well.
Oh my god, I'm feeling the pumpright now we had a great show.
Please like and subscribe.
Uh, make sure you go online andyou find game day with minal,
because she's amazing and if Ididn't have her, I wouldn't be
mr olympia 17 times in a row.
So, once again, like andsubscribe.
I'm pumped.
(50:27):
I'm pumped right now.
I'm pumped right now.
I feel the.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
I'm coming in the gym .
I'm coming at the clinic.
I'm coming all the time.
You've seen my movie.
You've seen Pump.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Awesome Game Day, men's Health, alpharetta,
woo-hoo issues that never end.
From our perspective, a podcastfor all but a point of view.
I'm trying to decipher what you mean by sex
stimulation goes down.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
No.
So there's these salinizinghormone and then, like
follicular stimulating hormonesthose actually they're in your
pituitary gland but theystimulate your testes.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Generally?
Does it have any side effect onyour sexual performance or your
ability to get or maintain anerection?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
So being on testosterone therapy can
actually help that, if it's youknow if it's a symptom.
Yo, we're around buddy, youknow decrease in sex drive or
not being able to have like yourcorrections.
It can definitely help whenyou're getting on the
testosterone.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
So the side effect would be more in terms of you
trying to Thanks for joining us.
Before we go into today'sepisode, we have a special
disclaimer.
Because of the nature of thetopic, we do need to let you
know that we are not licensedprofessionals and cannot give
medical advice.
We have an expert guest ontoday's episode, but she is not
(00:57):
your expert guest.
Therefore, please consult yourown doctor if you have any
questions or concerns regardingyour health.
Now, before we go into today'sepisode, we need a huge favor.
If you have gotten any valuefrom this, forward the episode
or any of your favorite episodesto a friend and ask them to
(01:17):
give us a review.
That is how other people find us, that's how they find the show
and that is essentially how wegrow.
How other people find us,that's how they find the show
and that is essentially how wegrow.
Seriously, right now, do itbefore you forget.
It takes just a few seconds Intoday's conversation.
Man, this is one you don't wantto miss.
If you're a man over 30, you'llneed to pay very close
(01:39):
attention to what's coming up.
Ladies, if you have a man inyour life who is over 30, make
sure he listens to thisconversation.
What is testosterone?
How does it impact us as men?
How would we know if we'redeficient?
What can we do about it?
And is testosterone replacementtherapy safe?
Is it for you?
On today's show we havereturning champ and co-host
(02:01):
Jabari Pride, and we meet upwith nurse practitioner Minal
Patel.
She is a clinic director atGame Day Men's Health in
Alpharetta, georgia, and as alicensed professional, she
offers a ton of insight.
Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Let's get to it.
Welcome back, bro.
Yeah, it's been a while.
Yeah, it has been a while.
I feel like you don't love meor something.
(02:23):
Yeah, no, I've had so manyother guests.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Oh, so they're better than me.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I'm just saying you know people, you're busy, so it
is what it is.
And today we have on the showsomeone that I've been trying to
get on this show for my God Iwant to say months now it feels
like it's been well.
She's extremely busy, and withgood reason.
We have nurse practitionerMinal Patel, who is a clinic
director at Game Day Men'sHealth.
(03:11):
Thank you so much for beinghere with us.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
No problem.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
This stems from what's been going on with me for
the past I'm going to say acouple of years to where I was
feeling lethargic, no energyfeeling I don't want to put a
label on it, but I kind of feellike depressed is the right word
, and I say that loosely because, again, it hasn't been
clinically diagnosed as such,but I kind of feel like I could
(03:36):
use a boost of something energyhelp with whatever.
And I wanted to rule out onething, because I was having a
conversation with a friend andhe mentioned that he said your
testosterone was probably lowand the man in me kind of
attacked right back what youmean, you know what do you mean?
because that's the thing thatmakes you a man.
So the first thing that I heardwas oh, you're a whole woman
(03:57):
now.
Um, so I didn't like that.
Yeah, decided to look into it,decided to check into it and I
think there's a stigma.
I think there's amisunderstanding that we all
have, especially as men,especially if we're that type of
alpha male who just feelswhatever that means, right,
whatever that really means.
But we feel like there'ssomething associated where
there's a shame, and I didn'twant to admit that.
(04:18):
I felt like, no, I'm just asgood as you, 20 year olds.
I could run circles aroundthese guys.
I'm just as strong.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So maybe we'll start out by going over very simple
basics and explain what it isand how it worked and how it
impacts us as men.
Yeah, so testosterone, it'sobviously it's a sex hormone.
Men have a lot of it.
I mean females havetestosterone as well, but in
smaller quantities, where itused to be the highest, like in
your early late teens to likeearly 20s.
From there it does graduallystart to decline.
Most people it could be like aslow, gradual decline.
(04:52):
Others it could be a suddendrop, just due to like their
lifestyle habits, you know, likegenetics, due to drinking a lot
of alcohol, due to gaining alot of weight, sometimes having
some kind of medical conditionlike, let's say, diabetes or
sleep apnea.
All of that can also cause youto have lower testosterone
(05:12):
levels.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So overall, then, there's an expected decline, is
what you're saying.
There could be a rapid declinedue to a medical condition, but
there is an expected decline dueto age.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yes.
So, as you age, your levels canstart decreasing.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Can or will, Just naturally Will they like.
For sure it sounds like.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So let's say somebody is in their 50s but they are
following a good lifestyle,meaning they are following a
good, balanced diet, they areexercising daily.
Then their levels may be highercompared to someone that is not
doing that at their age.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I feel like you've described everything.
That should say that my levelsare in the toilet right now.
Yours, yeah, why?
As far as what do you mean?
Poor diet, gained weight 46next month.
I feel tired all the time, butI also have a nine, seven and
five year old and I probably getanywhere from four to six hours
of sleep at night.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
It's like could it be low?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
T.
Could it be three kids, Like Idon't know.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
That was my thing too .
I wanted to eliminate thetestosterone thing.
I was like I needed to get ittested because I wanted to at
least eliminate that and justsay, well, let's take that out
of the equation, right?
Whatever else is wrong with mehas to be something mental or
something with work or whateverelse, and maybe I'm overworked,
I'm stressed, but I wanted toeliminate that one thing If
(06:32):
there is something I can doabout it, and it seemed like it
was the easiest thing to handle.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I was about to say that it's like you're looking
for the quickest fix.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, well, I'm looking at the thing that if
there are three things I have tofix, if I can fix one, can I
fix this one thing that I'mdeficient in?
What should we look for to feelthat, okay, it's time to get it
checked?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Right.
So if you've been experiencinga lot of like low energy,
fatigue, mood changes,especially like depression, if
you've been noticing that you'reexercising but not able to lose
the weight, you're exercising,you know, four or five days out
of the week, but still notlosing the weight, notice any
changes in your sex drive.
Notice changes in like loss ofum early morning erections so
(07:13):
all the things that men don'twant to admit right, that's
pretty much yeah, are therephysical things?
yeah, yeah, morning erectionlike just like looking in the
mirror, looking like, oh yeahlike so, like weight gain in the
midsection, sometimes weightgain in like the chest area and
the hips, dry skin, especiallyon, like your face, hands
(07:34):
interesting.
So then once that's noticed andwe're not in our 20s, we should
definitely get that checked yeah, it doesn't hurt to get it
checked just to kind of rule outthat aspect of it, right, cause
I mean, obviously fatigue islike a really broad term.
It could be caused due to a lotof different things, right, but
(07:55):
getting that testosterone levelchecked you could kind of get
an idea of if it's contributingto that fatigue that you're
having.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
So is there a base level of testosterone where a
man should be?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm sure there's like some type of range.
Yeah, so it's a pretty broadrange, typically anywhere from
like 300 to 1100 even, butobviously, like an optimal level
varies based on the person.
But if you're having symptomsrelated to low testosterone, we
aim for your total testosteronelevel to be at least above 550.
Low testosterone.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We aim for your total testosterone level to be at
least above 550.
So it's possible to be like a1200,.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
But you're tired, you're experiencing all the
symptoms of someone who has lowT.
I mean you could be at a 1200range.
Now our cutoff is at at leastif you're 599 or higher than
obviously you're at atherapeutic level.
So if you're in 1200, that's apretty therapeutic level, or
actually even higher.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
But is it?
Is it the inverse the higherthe number you need testosterone
, the lower number you don't, oris it?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
No, no, no, the lower the number.
You need testosterone.
Got it Okay?
Yeah, okay, cause I rememberwhen I got tested, I think I was
somewhere in the 300s, right.
What's interesting is I gottested at a different facility
where my doctor felt, based oneverything else, well, you don't
really need it.
So he wasn't going to prescribeanything, and I'm not sure why
that was because I still feltthe same.
(09:14):
I was listening to anotherpodcast where the guy who's a
doctor on the show he was sayingsometimes, like a 900 for me
might be low, whereas for youit's good enough, a 900 for me
might be low, whereas for youit's good enough, because, again
, different people, differentbody types, different lifestyles
, et cetera, different genetics.
So what he would look at, hewould look at just what's the
normal range, regardless of howI felt.
(09:34):
He felt like, oh you don't needit.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Do you think he just gave you the eye test Like, ah,
he looks like he works out, he'sgood, he's not fat yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
That was a little bit of that it was a little bit of
like I'm not really listening toeverything else you're saying
in terms of how you feel youlook fine.
Whatever's wrong with you isprobably in your head.
Go see somebody else.
He just wants some steroids,yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
But yeah, I'm not here to get you stronger or
whatever, and I still felt thesame way.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I felt so when I came here, went away, I was thinking
I guess he's right, but weekslater I was still feeling
horrible.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
And I wanted to eliminate that.
I didn't even have the energy,as you know, to go to the gym.
Yeah, I didn't want to, just azero drive to even get up and
just go to the gym.
But I thought I needed help andI came here and I got my levels
tested and it was a differentstory.
So when a different facilitysays you're at 300, you're 47
years old, you're fine, that'sthe way it should be, because
(10:28):
according to your age, that'swhere you should be anyway.
Do they have a point in saying,well, it should decline.
So why should we mess withnature?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And can you also explain what TRT stands for and
what it means?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, so a lot of primary care doctors.
If you're getting like yourtestosterone check, they go by
that big broad range which isconsidered normal.
Sometimes it may not go off oflike oh, you're having symptoms
of low T and you're in thisrange, you need testosterone.
Sometimes they don't go off ofthat.
They go off of like that normalrange.
That's probably what happenedwith you Versus here at Game Day
(11:03):
.
We specialize in testosteronereplacement therapy so we look
at your levels but we also lookat your symptoms and go off of,
like I said, if you're belowthat five 50 range, you're
having symptoms and, yes, youprobably you do need
testosterone replacement to helpwith that.
But to answer your question,trt stands for like testosterone
replacement therapy and it's amedical treatment aimed at
(11:26):
raising those testosteronelevels in men that have low
testosterone.
It's a condition Sometimes it'salso referred to like
hypogonadism and it comes inlike different forms.
You could do an injection form,you could do an oral form, you
could do creams, gels.
Most people tend to go with theinjection form because it goes
directly into your muscle andtypically you can take it once
(11:46):
or twice a week or more, buttypically it's once or twice a
week.
There's also like a pellet form.
Those are little tinytestosterone tablets that they
make a little incision in yourskin.
Put it in the fat part of yourskin and they gradually release
testosterone.
It's more of a long term canlast up to like three to four
months.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Okay, okay, okay.
Well, it does sound likeearlier.
The example you were giving wasalmost like if he was the
doctor to talk about his dietand the doctor was like yeah, so
looking at your BMI, you'reobese.
And you look at him, you'relike well, clearly, I think I'm
obese on the BMI scale becauseI'm six feet 200 pounds, so I'm
overweight, but I'm not obese.
So what you do is you reallylook at what's specifically
going on with that individual tothen make a determination like
(12:26):
okay, yeah, I know this generalscale says that you're okay, but
you're not okay, right, Okay,what is free testosterone versus
not free testosterone?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Because I think when they check for like the total
testosterone?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
right.
What is free versus total?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, so free testosterone is basically what's
readily available for your bodyto utilize, and the total
testosterone is in your body asa whole right, so the free.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Free is what matters, then so, yes, free definitely
matters.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So, like my guys that are having symptoms and, let's
say, their total testosterone isabove the limit, like at a
therapeutic level, then we cancheck their free testosterone
level.
If it is low, then we canconsider putting them on
testosterone as well.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Gotcha, I think that maybe that's what a lot of
doctors are checking for yourregular PCP.
They're seeing that youroverall testosterone level is
high enough, but you can't usethat for what we need it for as
men.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The free testosterone is whatwe need in order for us to feel
the energy you know, not befoggy, and you definitely look
into that to make sure it's notjust a blanket.
(13:33):
Hey, you're fine, go home.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, definitely Stop crying.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
How have you been feeling the last three months?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Admittedly, first month made zero difference.
Maybe the first six weeks itmade zero difference and I was
coming here all the time, butthe reason was because I was
just sitting on my ass.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Still, I still wasn't getting in the gym.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And I realized that later because, you know, I even
came in, I saw Manala here andshe asked me the same question.
I was just like oh, it makes nodifference.
She's like are you going to thegym?
I was like no, she's like yougotta need to.
So what happens if you justtake it kind of like what I was
doing, cause I feel much betternow, but when initially I was
(14:12):
taking it and hoping that it wasgoing to be like a magic pill?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Obviously it's not.
I mean, you definitely, yes,you will take the testosterone,
but we want you to utilize it.
You know, to reach that bestversion of yourself, you have to
be eating a well-balanced diet.
You have to exercise, at leastyou know, three to four or five
days in a week.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Not twice like Jabari , not two days.
I knew you were going to saysomething.
Four times a week, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
If you're not exercising, then obviously the
testosterone can just sit thereand cause other effects, right?
We want you to utilize it asbest as you can.
Lose weight, start buildingmore of that lean muscle mass,
burning that fat, uplifting yourmood.
I mean exercising itselfreleases those good endorphins
right.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
When you say utilizing it, just so we're
clear, it means that you need todo all the other things that go
along with that and this kindof gives you can we call it a
boost to kind of help you getthere.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Right.
I mean, sometimes I kind ofexplain it like as a almost like
a supplement.
Let's say you were low in likeB12, which is causing, like the
low energy.
Obviously we recommend takingB12 to boost that up.
So same thing with this.
Yes, testosterone will helpraise your levels up, but you
also, in conjunction, need tomodify your lifestyle.
It's not a magic pill.
(15:30):
If you just take it.
You're not just going to becomeMike Tyson.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
It's not like Popeye and spinach.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
That'd be great.
That's what I thought it was atfirst.
I was like I'm going to takethis and feel awesome, and that
did not happen.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Because if you don't use it, then your estrogen
levels will also climb to matchyour testosterone levels, which
means you'll still have somephysical changes.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So a taken testosterone, I mean it
definitely needs to be medicallymonitored.
That's why we're here.
There's certain levels in yourblood that we need to be checked
periodically Because if they'renot checked then obviously
you're going to get some sideeffects right.
So number one is yourhemoglobin count, or your red
blood cell count.
We keep an eye on that.
Sometimes when you taketestosterone, it actually
(16:15):
increases your red blood cellproduction, which is a good
thing if somebody's anemic.
But if you take testosterone,there's a chance that that red
blood cell count will go up andif it gets too high, then your
blood will get too thick.
It can start affecting yourblood pressure, bleeding, all of
that Other things we monitor isWell.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
how do you handle that Like, if that happens?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
If your hemoglobin levels are up, we obviously hold
off on the testosterone untilit comes back down, or we can
also have you donate blood.
That's an easier fix because itwill help it come down and then
you can stay on the dose that'sworking for you.
Sometimes we may have to godown on your dose based on how
your body's reacting.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Would it make sense to do a blood thinner, maybe
ibuprofen or something?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Not ibuprofen, maybe like a baby aspirin or a fish
oil Aspirin.
Yeah, grape seed oil capsules.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Or you can just donate a pipe and be done with
it and get paid.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Right, I didn't get paid what they give you donation
right, so you don't get paidyeah, no, I got a t-shirt.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
You need to get paid.
Yeah, I got a t-shirt.
Um what?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
and a cookie, some grape juice.
They didn't give you any food,snack, something else oh,
t-shirts and a what which?
Speaker 3 (17:25):
which clinic is that?
Um yeah, um no, they didn'tgive me a t-shirt.
That was pretty.
That was it.
That was my first time to everdonating blood in my life,
because I don't like needles, soI was like I'm not gonna get
stuck voluntarily, I don't haveto.
That happened to me as well.
Um, so it was elevated and justit just come down.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So and there's obviously like if you're not
drinking enough water, if you'redehydrated, that can also make
it go up.
If you're, let's say, eating alot of red meats, that can also
make it go up because the ironcontent.
So usually we say kind of dored meat in moderation, do more
of your lean meats, and thenthere's like certain conditions
that can also make it go up.
So like if you have likeuncontrolled sleep apnea,
(18:06):
obviously then that can make itgo up.
If sleep apnea is there, we'lltell you to go get a sleep study
done.
Or if you are not using yourCPAP, then we tell you to use it
, so it's controlled.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Gotcha.
So what I'm hearing is one ofthe most important things you
can do.
In fact, the only way youshould do it is to go see a
medical professional likeyourself so that other things
could be monitored, because Ithink that some of the stigmas
and things that are negativethat people are hearing is bad.
Things happen to people whenthey start buying it in the back
of the gym, you know, in thealley and you know they just
(18:35):
take more and more and moreBecause, again, if you take
something, you start to feel thepositive results from it.
You're going to want more.
It just becomes almostaddictive, not in a medical way,
but it makes you want more ofit because that feeling is good
of like I'm getting stronger, etcetera.
But what you're doing is not togive anyone anything to make
them Superman.
You're just bringing them backto normal levels, am I correct?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yes, so normal levels for that person.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
For that person, right, so it's not even normal.
It's like you.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
You're not gonna make me a 20 year old right you
should have said last time thegym was trying to get you to, I
guess, the best version ofyourself, so like a healthier
version of yourself okay right,because low testosterone
obviously can lead to a lot ofmedical issues if not treated
well.
So, like the, you can gainweight that can lead to diabetes
(19:21):
, high blood pressure, highcholesterol levels, which can
lead to diabetes, high bloodpressure, high cholesterol
levels, which can lead to otherthings like stroke, heart attack
.
All of that, so we don't wantyou to have that Right.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
So low testosterone can lead to that.
You alluded to bringing youback to the best version of
yourself, and you measure thatbased on what is it that you
look for?
Is it just the physicality of aperson?
What else?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Also how you're feeling, how your symptoms are
improving.
Typically your totaltestosterone levels as well.
We want to make sure they'recoming to a good optimal range.
On average most people, we tryto get you in that 800, 900
range but you know, let's sayyou are more sedentary, not
working out as much.
Sometimes you may be happier inthat 600, 700 range versus
(20:01):
someone that's vigorouslyworking out.
They may be happier a littlebit above 900 because they're
burning off more of thattestosterone or utilizing more
of that testosterone.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, I'm definitely using it now.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Right, cause we've been in the gym, we're going and
we're going hard.
So, yeah, thanks, yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Definitely might need to get that tested again, see
if I need more.
When I hear it, the way I kindof feel about it is I think of
it like someone who is deficientin something else, like a
diabetic.
You're not just pumping someonefull of insulin just for the
hell of it, you're only doing itbecause they were deficient in
this particular thing.
(20:38):
Is that a good comparison?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
It's different from you being a diabetic and getting
insulin right.
Your levels were low.
We're helping it come back upto a good optimal range, so all
those symptoms that you werehaving can be alleviated.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Okay, that makes sense.
Initially your reflex reactionwas I would never do that.
But then you say, well, I'llnever say never, and you kind of
left it open.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
So I was an athlete High school and college and
post-college I'll never saynever and you kind of left it
open.
So I was an athlete high schooland college and post-college I
ran track.
So with track the testing isvery stringent, like if your
caffeine levels are too high,you could get banned for like
four years or eight years, whichis could pretty much destroy
your career Right.
So pretty much college andpost-collegiately.
(21:23):
If I had a headache, I wasn'ttaking any medicine.
If I wasn't feeling well, I'dsleep it off Like I didn't want
to put anything into my systemthat could be disqualified.
Exactly so.
That fear was always in me and,like there are people that were
how do I politely say this Wereperforming much better than
they should have been due tothings that they were doing
(21:45):
extracurricularly Right.
So then there's that stigma, sothey were taking some
performance enhancing drugs oh,100%, okay, back in the 2000s it
was HGH, you know.
Before that, steroids were big.
Right, after HGH, trt became athing, but then it had to be
monitored correctly.
Right, there were people I'msure they had a doctor that
could help them be above thelevels that they should have
(22:07):
been.
Right, so there's always astigma of you don't want to be
caught doing anything.
So the best way to not getcaught doing anything is just to
not do it.
So for me it's always been likewhen we were talking about it, I
was like, oh, I could never doit.
It's because it was always.
If I do it, even though I'm notcompeting now, it's still that
those are the people that didthat and I don't want to be one
of those people because I did itthe right way.
(22:29):
You know, maybe I don't finishfirst, but I'm finishing clean
with a good conscience.
Right, that's always been inthe back of my head where it's
like maybe you know, I do get mylevels tested and then you're
like, you're at a 200 Jabari,like kids are not, like your
levels are way too low.
And it would still be tough forme, cause I'm like, ah, I feel
like I'm cheating, even though Idon't have any meets coming up.
I'm never going to run again.
I'm 46.
(22:49):
I'd blow both my hamstrings outif I try to run down the track,
but it's just that.
That's stigma.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, for me, and I'm I'm not the norm, I'm nowhere.
This Cheating to what?
Cheating for what?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Exactly.
I don't have a meet coming up,I'm never going to compete again
.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
All right.
So forget meets right, likeagain ex-athlete myself and all
of that stuff.
Again, my view on it is if I'mdeficient in something like if
it was just B12 or low in iron,I'm not taking iron pills
because I'm not low in iron, soI don't need it, so I'm not
going to have.
Let me have extra iron so Icould be extra strong.
That's not a thing for me.
But I'm deficient in this onething that I need to bring me
(23:28):
back to my normal levels, notabove.
Why do you call that cheating?
To get you back to Jabari Rightnow you're like Jab.
How do we get you back toJabari?
So you're like your whole self.
You know what I mean.
That's the way I would look atit.
Why?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
do you look at it as cheating?
Because if I were to take usback to when we were both 22, I
know that we're not 22, right,but if we were both 22 again and
we were lined up on the lineand my levels were 1300 and your
levels were 1100.
And you looked over at me likedamn it, that guy's bigger than
me, stronger than me, that's notfair.
I'm going to lose this race.
But over the next two weeks I'mgoing to visit Manal and then,
you know, I'm going to be ableto compete with that person.
(24:03):
Right?
It's like well, it's not myfault that I'm genetically
different than you.
It's not my fault, I haven't.
It's and with a ridiculousstride that he can do what he
can do and no other human can do.
It's not his fault that he hasthat genetic advantage.
So why should you penalize meby giving you an equal advantage
(24:24):
to me when you didn't have thatin the first place?
So good point.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Bring me to your levels.
Is cheating Correct?
Bring me to what I need to beat is not cheating.
Does that make sense?
It does make sense.
I'm not trying to become UsainBolt because if I look at
everything genetically, let'ssay I was able to just break
down his anatomy and I was likeeverything that he's got I stick
it into my little five, sevenbody.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I would explode, it wouldn't make sense right.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
But if I'm looking at the exact clone copy of myself,
like it's another version ofmyself, that is optimal.
And then there's me, who'ssuboptimal.
I'm missing all kinds of things.
Maybe this version is notsleeping at all, maybe this
version is having all kinds ofother issues, and all I want to
do is bring it back to thatother version of myself, which
is the best version of myself.
(25:09):
Not to meet me, jabari, because, again to your point, when I
think about that example, I'mstanding next to you and you're
at 1300, I'm at 1100.
Forget those numbers.
I'm looking at the fact thatyou're six feet and you're 4'11"
.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm looking at that you're sixfeet right and I'm in my best
(25:29):
shape, but I have a naturaldisadvantage.
There's a reason, like in yourMMA days, a 200 pound guy is not
fighting 130 pound guy you seewhat I'm trying to clear.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah so, when it comes down to performance, if
it's strictly a performancelike you're trying to elevate
your levels to perform at your20 year old self, for me it's
still like, well, that's notnormal, because a I'm 46.
Could I get my levels back upto when I was 26?
I'm sure you could get me thereand I'm sure I'd look amazing.
(25:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Not necessarily, no no, she can't get you back there
, because that's not normal.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
So this is that's when you were 20.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Go ahead, manon.
So what would be a normalnumber for a normal being a
vague term right, but what wouldbe a good number for a athletic
24 year?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
old.
So, like I said, average totaltestosterone levels usually in
that 800, 900 range.
Actually, it's based off of youas well.
Yeah, and how you're feelingafter you start taking it, and
usually it takes about a monthto three months for you to reach
a good optimal level.
After you, you know, get ontestosterone therapy.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
That makes sense.
Yeah, you would never walk intoa legit facility and say make
me like I was when I was 20.
They would laugh you out of thebuilding if they're a legit
organization.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
They say go to Mexico .
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, go somewhere else with that, because we can't
do that for you.
Yeah, right, but could I be thebest 50 year old version of
myself?
Because there are 50 year oldswho run circles around a bunch
of 20 yearyear-olds becausethey're in phenomenal shape.
We're part of that select few.
I mean, how many 20-year-oldsdo we know that we can just like
run around them in the gym?
Could you be the best46-year-old version of yourself
right now, to where everything'skind of balanced.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
So, once again, if it's strictly for performance
and what I mean by performanceis like going to the gym playing
sports with my friends Iwouldn't want to do TRT to do
that, because I feel like at thelevels that I currently have, I
can do that without the extraTRT.
Now, if it's, do you want towake up feeling refreshed?
Do you want to not be tired allthe time?
(27:26):
That's something different.
If TRT was a cure for that,then it's like I could care less
.
If I perform better, If I canget through my day without
needing a nap, that'd be great,right, Because whether it's TRT
or it's, I'm sure I have sleepapnea.
My wife tells me, like I thinkyou're dying.
You just stopped breathingSomething.
I need to do something,obviously, because it's just not
(27:46):
having three kids.
There's definitely somethinggoing on and you get to figure
it out.
But I mean, if TRT is theanswer, then TRT is the answer.
If the CPAP machine is theanswer, a CPAP machine is the
answer, right.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
I think you're also using an additional word here.
That's creating more of amisconception, even in your own
head.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
What is?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
that you keep saying extra.
No one's trying to give youextra.
Well, it would be extra to mylevels that I currently have.
Still not extra right, becauseif you don't have what you
should have, let's say nothingelse, like your body was working
perfectly.
But what do you mean by shouldhave?
Because there's a certainamount that you should have to
where you should be to performat your level.
But there are other things thatagain keep me honest that bring
(28:25):
that number down, whether youdon't get enough sleep, whether
it's stress, whether it's somany other things that
accelerate that decline to where, if you were sitting on an
island and life was good and youwere farming and you were just
chilling and you exercised everyday and you didn't have any
stress and all your concerns,maybe your levels will be higher
.
But we live in a very stressfulworld.
(28:46):
Both you and I are in cells andwe run our own businesses and
things are very, very stressful.
We don't sleep, you have babies, so it's declining that.
It's not giving you the timethat you need to even get to the
gym, so all of those things aretaking that number and
declining it even more rapidly.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
In my head because of the stigma that I've had for so
long.
I would rather do somethingelse than do TRT.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
What's something else ?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
CPAP machine right, go to bed earlier.
Like we got home from the gymyesterday.
I didn't go to bed till 2am, Ithink.
My aura ring said I got fourhours and 15 minutes of sleep
and I was like, oh, not a badnight.
Now, if I fix those things, I'mstill tired, still can't get
rid of, like, the weight aroundmy stomach.
Then it's like, all right, letme, uh, let me see what the TRT
can do for me.
Yeah, it's just hard for me tomake that jump in my head
(29:32):
because I was, I had to be, sonegative towards any type of
performance enhancing drug Notnot that you know you guys are,
not that you're peddling PEDsout of your clinic, but that's,
that's what it was for me forsuch a long period of my life?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Is it that again with yeah, right, but if you modify
your lifestyle and you're stillhaving these symptoms and
definitely come in and get thoselevels checked, come in for the
consult where we could, youknow, kind of go over your
health history in more detailand come up with a plan would
(30:07):
you consider trt or is itconsidered a performance
enhancing drug?
Are you talking more like uh,anabolic steroids?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
well, yeah, in the context that he's using it in,
because, again, it does enhanceyour performance.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And I'll give you a real world example.
So in MMA specifically, therewere some fighters that were
great when they were in their20s.
They looked amazing.
I'm not going to call anybodyout because it's going to live
on forever.
They got older, they got totheir 30s and they physically
didn't pass the same eye testright, they got softer then trt
um in their 30s yeah, okay, um,they weren't built like superman
(30:42):
.
They were still had muscles, butthey just weren't like.
You could see every singlestriation in their abs, right.
Then trt was made legal in theufc and then those 35, 36, 37
year olds look like they were 21, 22, 23 year olds.
I'm sure some of them weretaking advantage and going above
where they needed to be.
Right, there was some abuse.
They were allowed to do thatfor a few years and then they
(31:05):
said, all right, this is gettingout of control.
So they made it illegal again.
And then those 30, now 36, 37,38 year olds look like 36, 37,
olds and they were gettingknocked out I can guarantee you,
I'm not there, I'm not in theirworld, I can 100 guarantee you.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
and I hate that brett's not here because he
would have been able to attestto this.
Yeah, they weren't going to adoctor to just get him back to
normal range.
No, these guys were trulyenhancing their performance
because they know I'm gonna gofight you, I'm going to go in
the ring with you, I'm going topush it to the human limits
because I'm about to get knockedout if I don't.
(31:40):
So that's different.
So I think in that world you'reabsolutely right, it exists in
that world, and there's a bigdifference between that and the
normal world that we live in, soit was labeled as a PED because
it did enhance theirperformance.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So, sorry the example , like anabolic steroids is one
of them and where these athletesuse these animal extrudes to
improve their performance,improve their muscle mass, but
they are using it at such a highlevel where it can cause a lot
of harm in the longterm versusTRT.
You are taking it for low Tlevels and you're getting it
(32:19):
monitored.
It's not like nobody ismonitoring.
A medical professional ismonitoring it.
So, if there's any harm beingdone, then we can adjust your
dosing, we can stop you all ofthat.
But versus anabolic steroids,people are just taking it.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
With one goal.
The goal is to go fight thatguy on Sunday here.
I don't have a fight coming up,I just want to live, I want to
be with my kids.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But to go back to your question, TRT is a PED.
Here's the problem with theterm PED.
Whenever you hear the term PED,you automatically think the
worst possible thing.
Right, but it's stilltechnically enhancing your
performance.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
So it's a vitamin, then in that case, right,
because it's a drug.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I don't think vitamins are more of a
supplement.
They're not technically a drug.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I guess technically they're a drug it's testosterone
that's made in your body fromyour testicles a drug it's?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
it's a sex hormone, right?
The testosterone replacementthat we especially like the
injections.
It's a synthetic form oftestosterone but when you inject
it in your body, your receptorsthey're not able to tell, tell
it apart, right?
So they think it istestosterone versus like.
If you did like the pellets,those are bioidentical to the
testosterone in your body butyour body still reacts the same
(33:27):
way to either one right.
Look at it long term.
These symptoms that you'rehaving, like depression, let's
say the sleep issues, let's saynot being able to exercise, not
being motivated that can lead toother things down the line and
that is definitely going toaffect your health right.
I mean, major things are youdon't want to end up with, like
(33:47):
diabetes, cardiovascular disease, which causes even worse things
like heart attacks, strokes,cancer, all of that being
overweight have been known toseen with, like some cancers as
well.
So, if you start treating thesesymptoms now, if it's due to low
testosterone, then obviouslyit's going to Decrease your risk
of getting these cardiovasculardiseases become diabetic.
(34:10):
All of that.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
So I'm happy you brought that up.
Long term, so is Steph supposedto take TRT for the rest of his
life, because he's always goingto be catching up right?
It's a good question, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
So once you start, yes, it is a lifelong thing, but
I mean, obviously you can stopit anytime you want.
But just know, yes, you will goback to the levels that you're
at possibly lower because youare aging as well.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Right, so does your body.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cutyou off, but does your.
Let's say he starts.
Well, he started three monthsago.
Let's say he takes it foranother 10, 15 years and now
he's like you know what?
I'm not going to the gymanymore.
I'm fat and happy.
I'm good.
Right, I'm good, I'm not takingit anymore.
Will his levels then dropfurther down than where he
normally would have been,because his body is like well,
we don't need to create whatwe've been creating, because
(34:57):
we're getting it Right Fromoutside of the body.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yes, so when you stop it, I mean it definitely takes
a little while for your um,those sex hormones to start
kicking back where you're makingyour own testosterone.
But I mean there's othermedications that we recommend
sometimes, especially for guysthat are younger or want to
continue having kids.
There's medications that youcan take that keep stimulating
those sex hormones.
If you did decide to come offthe testosterone, you won't feel
(35:24):
that big dip when you stop it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Speaking of having kids, if you're 30, 35 years old
, obviously I'm not having kidsanymore.
You don't need any more kids.
Dude, I'm assuming you're done,yes, Cool.
So you got your three, you'redone.
Yes, so, but for a 30 year old,35 year old, maybe newly
(35:49):
married or remarried?
What are the risks and what'sinvolved with someone who's
definitely going to have morechildren?
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Right, I mean.
So if you're actively trying tohave kids, then we hold off on
you getting on testosterone tobegin with, but let's say, down
the line a year later, two yearslater you did want to start
trying.
Two years later you did want tostart trying.
Yes, you could taketestosterone, but we usually
(36:15):
recommend getting on amedication called gonadalrelin
which keeps those sex hormonesstimulated, so your body's
producing its own naturaltestosterone as well.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Why would it prevent you from having kids having the
extra testosterone in yoursystem?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
So when you are taking the testosterone it's
like your body's like, okay, hehas enough testosterone.
So those sex hormones thatusually stimulate those testes,
they do take a break.
So that's why someone that'syoung wants to continue having
babies.
We usually recommend doing thegonadalrelin to help keep those
sex hormones stimulated and thesperm count up.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
It would be harder to get an erection.
I'm trying to decipher what youmean by sex.
Stimulation goes down.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
No.
So there's um thesesolutinizing hormone and then
like follicular stimulatinghormones those actually they're
in your pituitary gland, butthey stimulate your testes to
produce sperm and in turn, alsobuild sperm as well.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Got it, so your sperm count can go down.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yes, got it Sorry, I meant testosterone and make the
sperm count go up.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Late in the day.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Generally?
Does it have any side effect onyour sexual performance or your
ability to get or maintain anerection?
Speaker 1 (37:25):
So being on testosterone therapy can
actually help that if it's asymptom.
Yo, we're out, buddy, you knowdecrease in sex drive or not
being able to have like yourerections.
It can definitely help whenyou're getting on the
testosterone.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So it's just really the side effect would be more in
terms of you trying to havekids, and that's when you need
to be watched by.
And I like what you said alittle while ago, because you
said you would not even get themstarted If someone came to you
and said I want to have kids.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
And that's the point of coming to a medical
professional as opposed to, youknow, buying it from Joe at the
gym, right.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I think that was one of the uh kind of like
the those massive, massive bodybuilds that are on all the jugs,
their testicles shrink upbecause the body's just like we
need to stop.
Well, I don't know what allthey were taking right, yeah,
everything but the testosteronepart.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
like I said, it can cause testicular shrinkage
because it decreases your spermcount.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I don't need sperm.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
You need to take more TRT so you don't have any more
kids.
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Now, obviously don't think of being on testosterone
as like a birth control.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
It's the perfect male birth control Make me stronger
and not have any more kids.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
That's actually a good point.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
You could still you know, get somebody pregnant.
Don't think of it as a birthcontrol but it can decrease.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
No, I had a hysterectomy, so I know Is that
what it's called for meVasectomy, you mean.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, the hysterectomy, I knew it, I knew
it.
I knew it.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
Oh my God, I got snipped.
I should just stick to that.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I took all your ovaries out for a second.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
I took all the ovaries out.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
My ovaries are gone.
I can't have babies.
Man, oh my God.
Thank God this isn't aneducational show.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
We are leading them astray.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
A couple of other questions that we do have Once
someone starts.
You mentioned that they getresults typically in about a
month to three months beforethey start seeing results.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, To get to a good optimal range.
We've seen anywhere from amonth to three months, sometimes
longer if we are adjusting yourdosing based off of the other
lab work that we monitor.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Gotcha, gotcha, but you have to be working out,
though, to see results.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I mean, obviously we do recommend that, yeah, because
somebody came in to me a monthin there.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
He was like, uh, hey, can we start going to the gym?
I was like, ah, yeah, no, no,no, no, like we need to start
now.
I was like, yeah, I guess, man,I don't know why.
He's like I'm on TRT.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
We got to have a long conversation after six weeks.
Yeah, yeah, sure enough, I camein after six weeks and the
question was how are you feeling?
Just hear mumbling on, nothing,no difference really.
And she's like are you going togym?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
nah, just not doing anything he must have called me
right after your conversationyes, he was like we need to go
to the gym tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, yeah I was like find somebody that'll motivate
you to go there.
So you were him.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
So are there other risks for someone, obviously to
be monitored and go into aprofessional clinician, and is
there a point to where it's justlike don't even bother, you're
too old, you're 65 years old.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Maybe you shouldn't even start at this point,
because whatever you're feeling,you should be feeling I mean
there's obviously somecontraindications, like if you
have prostate cancer ortesticular cancer, if you have,
like, severe kidney disease,severe liver disease, I mean if
you have severe like heartfailure or even uncontrolled
sleep apnea, then obviously wedon't recommend you being on
(41:07):
testosterone therapy okay but asfar as like you were talking
like some side effects, oranything risks to watch out for.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Someone who's just like if there is a side effect,
I'm going to get it.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Right, For example for me.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I just like I've been blessed and really like healthy
on my entire life.
So if I got an antibiotic andthey're like this might give you
diarrhea, I will get it,because every drug has every
effect that it could possiblyhave on me.
It will have on me If I takeone pill for a headache, I'm
good.
My wife may need three pillsbecause she's like her
(41:41):
resistance is a lot higher.
So for someone like me, who'skind of like maybe more
skeptical, was thinking arethere any side effects and how
will they impact me?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Right.
I mean that's the reason why wesay to get it medically
monitored right.
There are certain levels thatwe have to check.
If they're not right, yes, itcould cause you to have some
side effects, like if your bloodgets too thick, that can affect
your blood pressure, that canaffect your bleeding, if your
estrogen levels get too high,you can start getting like
nipple sensitivity, gynecomastiaor increase in breast tissue,
(42:11):
mood swings, bloating, weightgain, decrease in your sex drive
.
There's like lesser known sideeffects, like acne.
Sometimes people can have acneand that could depend on like
what type.
If you're on a super high doseor not, dosage adjustment needs
to be made.
Sometimes hair loss can occuras well.
And another thing we monitoryour prostate level as well
(42:32):
because we want to make sure youdon't have prostate cancer,
because obviously, if you haveprostate cancer, you cannot be
taking testosterone therapy.
That is why it has to bemedically monitored to make sure
we can manage any side effectsthat could be occurred.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Gotcha, gotcha, while you're doing therapy, is there
an age that you would just sayno, I don't recommend you even
starting 85.
Yeah, 85, yeah, that's what.
I'm saying If an otherwisehealthy man and there are some
dudes out there in the 70s, wesee them in the gym.
They're looking phenomenalWould you say there's a certain
age that you would just say no.
(43:07):
I don't think you should startat this point.
Yeah, certain age that youwould just say no.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I don't think you should start at this point.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, if you're like 85 and older, definitely, but if
I'm, if I'm the sexy grandpa at75.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
If you're having symptoms that are, you know,
dramatic, then that coincidewith having low testosterone.
Then possibly dosages could bedifferent for them versus
someone that's in their forties.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Okay, what does a visit to get everything started
look like here at game day?
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Typically we'll schedule you with an appointment
.
There's some forms that we'llsend you that you'll just fill
out online, just like a basicintake form telling us about,
like your health history, whatyou're interested in.
That will save us time.
So when you come in, ourmedical assistant will take you
back, check your vitals, drawyour blood and then, once we get
your blood, we check your totaltestosterone level here in the
(43:57):
clinic.
Typically takes about 13minutes after the blood spun and
then, once we get that level,you'll get to see me or one of
our other providers and we'llbasically start your consult
based on you know, symptoms,your history and then also your
testosterone level.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Do you find a lot of people come in and they're
perfectly fine and you just go?
Yeah, you just need to go Takeyour ass out because it's not
testosterone.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, so we get some that just want to know their
levels.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Okay, when they're perfectly good.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Some that are also like at a therapeutic level
where they may not need it.
But there's alternatives, likeI said, that we also offer, like
vitamin therapies or even likepeptide therapy, could be an
alternative.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Is this covered under medical insurance at all?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
no, it's not, is it?
Speaker 2 (44:44):
elective versus right .
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So a lot of insurance companies kind of go off of
that normal range.
If you are in that normal range, then they'll be like why
should we cover it?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah, so if you're below the normal range, then
it's possible that they couldget it Possible.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
And by normal.
They're looking at the overall.
They're not looking at the freetestosterone again, which,
again, is what we need to focuson for what we're talking about
here.
Right, we are in Alpharetta,georgia, so for our Georgia
listeners, how do they find you?
Speaker 1 (45:12):
I mean online.
You can go to our websitegamedaymenshealthcom, and
there's obviously severallocations in Georgia, but you'll
see all the locations that areavailable.
The initial consult is free.
Once you sign up, we go overall the investment details.
You know, there's gonna be awhole lot of dudes that go, oh,
(45:35):
free consult.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
We do get that yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Well, that's what it gets them, you know, in the door
.
It gets them in the door, yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
That's what got me in the door.
I mean, it was a free consult.
I was like, well, let me atleast find out.
Right, once I found out, Ifound that the experience here
has been very transparent.
It's been extremely helpful,educational.
Every time, you guys well youspecifically when we have a
conversation, I always feel likeyou're teaching, and it's not
just here I'm advising this, butI'm going to teach you
(46:00):
everything that you need to know, which is very helpful to me,
and I think that if more doctorsand clinicians approached it
that way, then we'd have, Iguess, more people looking into
it, because that's what's alwaysbeen kind of a little daunting
to me.
I don't like doctors, I don'tlike going to them.
I don't want to go, I feel likenothing's wrong with me and by
the time I show up I'm like-.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Everything's wrong.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Everything's wrong I waited so long and it compounded
into five other things that Icould have prevented.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, I mean it definitely helps to keep you
well-informed, explaineverything where you're able to
understand it well, instead ofusing, like, medical jargon in
there.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
I mean I will say for me right now, like again going
to the gym with Jabari here, butmy sons, they've joined us as
well.
So I don't know about you, butlike for me, I feel like even
when I don't want to go, I gofor them.
So then I'm like forced to go,and that's exciting and just to
watch their own transformation.
So I'm definitely utilizing it.
Oh yeah, you know utilizing it,Cause we're going in the gym,
(46:59):
we're going hard.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
We're going heavy.
I was like how much did you do?
I did 10 reps, Cool, and thenhe'll do 11.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'm like that's motivation.
I told him to find someone thatwill motivate you.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
Oh we got it.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
To competitive people .
Speaker 1 (47:13):
It's good that you're getting your sons to come with
you as well, because, I mean,you're kind of, you know, being
an idol for them to also startbeing a healthy version.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, can't wait for them to be stronger than me.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Not the case right now.
It's not going to be able tolift you up.
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Exactly.
Thank you so much for theconversation, the education you
know just Dispelling some mythsand rumors.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
And definitely let's get you on the schedule.
Yeah, I knew you were going tosay that, yeah, check your
levels.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Check your levels.
It's a free consultation.
So is it blood, is it urine, isit saliva?
Speaker 1 (47:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Saliva.
Speaker 4 (47:52):
I wish Good.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
No, we'll draw your blood and get two tubes.
Not too big, it's not a lot ofblood.
I hate needles, bro.
I hate needles too.
I know, dude, you have no idea.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
I still look the other way.
I can't stick myself because,oh, speaking of which, the
injections, because that's whatI opted to do.
Yeah, and I kept coming in andher medical assistant kept
saying you know, she would sayyou know, you could do this
yourself, you don't have todrive an hour and a half.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
No, I can't.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
I'm like there's no way I'm sticking myself with a
needle I don't care how muchtime you show me how to do it um
but you can always get yourspouse to do it.
That's what she's been.
They're usually happy aboutpoking no no, Well, she's happy
about it, but my God a littletoo happy.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You can watch those dishes.
No, okay, cool, let me do yourinjection now.
No, so okay.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
I fidget a lot and I I really kind of act like a baby
about it.
Come on already.
Well, it's not that bad, I'mjust like it is that bad.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
I mean it's going into the muscle, not the, not a
vein right no, it's going inyour muscle.
Yeah, she can just close hereyes and do it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly that's what I feel like she's
been doing.
Boom, I'm like you're in theretoo long and I'll complain.
And I'll say you know, when I'min the clinic they're just kind
of like poking.
They just take it out realquick.
I'm like you, I feel likeyou're dragging it out slowly
and you're taking too long.
She's like well, go there thenstop bothering me, just go there
and get it done.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
She's trying to hit a bone, but yeah, hopefully she's
not going in your bone.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
Nah, she's doing a good job, but I do.
I do.
It's needles, it's just me andneedles it's my own personal.
I couldn't do it sometimesdistraction, distraction helps.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Maybe watching tv oh I know it's just drop and
needles.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
It's my own personal.
I can do it Sometimesdistraction uh distraction helps
maybe watching TV.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
Oh, I know it's coming, just drop it on your leg
Sell that up, all right.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
So hey, we didn't flip a coin today.
So traditionally, what we do atthe end of the show is someone
who loses just says and teasesthe next episode and just the
out does the outro.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Why eases the next episode and just the?
Speaker 2 (49:55):
out does the outro.
Why is everybody looking at me?
Because one of you guys do it,because one of you and all you
have to say is thanks forlistening how about the rock?
Yeah, how do you?
I?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
don't know how to talk like the arnold.
Okay, all right, jabari, you'regonna do arnold, take us out,
brother welcome to anotherexciting episode of manhood
matters.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
Next week, we'll be talking about something amazing
as well.
Oh my god, I'm feeling the pumpright now we had a great show.
Please like and subscribe.
Uh, make sure you go online andyou find game day with minal,
because she's amazing and if Ididn't have her, I wouldn't be
mr olympia 17 times in a row.
So, once again, like andsubscribe.
I'm pumped.
(50:27):
I'm pumped right now.
I'm pumped right now.
I feel the.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
I'm coming in the gym .
I'm coming at the clinic.
I'm coming all the time.
You've seen my movie.
You've seen Pump.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
Awesome Game Day, men's Health, alpharetta,
woo-hoo issues that never end.
From our perspective, a podcastfor all but a point of view.
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