December 4, 2023 • 69 mins
What if the key to unlocking your deepest desires lies in understanding your grief? That’s the provocative question we grapple with in a transformative conversation with Dr. Karen Kramer, our guest and esteemed mindset and breakthrough coach. We delve into grief’s multifaceted nature, how it impacts our lives, and how it influences our mindset and energy.
In our journey with Dr. Kramer, we unmask the intricacies of grief, dissecting its various forms like disenfranchised grief and the invisible patterns it can create in our lives. Simultaneously, we unravel how our subconscious beliefs can shape the way we cope with loss and grief. We also touch on how grief, often perceived as a roadblock, can become an energetic conduit, enabling us to manifest our desires. One of the stirring tales we unpack includes a client who miraculously healed from cancer by addressing her unprocessed grief.
As we navigate the labyrinth of grief, we offer practical strategies and tools. We introduce a unique G-R-I-E-F framework to aid your journey, discuss how to establish a new normal after experiencing loss, and underscore the importance of compassion towards oneself during grieving. Dr. Kramer reminds us of the significance of being present with our loved ones and the profound impact it has on our healing process. Tune in for an episode that promises to deepen your understanding of grief and equip you with the tools to unlock your healing potential.
Dr. Karen Kramer's Contact Information:
- Healthy Grief - Develop habits to living a healthy, long-, and fulfilled life with the Healthy Grief book at bit.ly/Healthy-Grief
- VillaVision - Learn about how the VillaVision Wellness & Retreat Center can support you at bit.ly/VillaVisionWellness
- Dr. Karen Kramer - Who is she and how can she help you? Learn more at https://drkarenkramer.com/
- Book a Call - Discover what's possible for you by booking a call with Dr. Karen at bit.ly/BookWithDrK
- Get social! Connect with Dr. Karen at:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg Kuhn (00:13):
Hello, beautiful souls.
It's Greg Kuhn, again yourintentional manifesting coach,
and I am so excited to be herewith you today on Manifest the
Big Stuff.
I'm so excited because we havean amazing guest with us today,
(00:33):
dr Karen Kramer, who I cannotwait to havea conversation with,
and I'm so excited that you areparticipating, that you are
going to and are listening to orwatching this conversation
right now, because I know howmuch value there is in it, even
(00:57):
though we haven't had it yet,and I'm sure that makes sense to
you.
Dr Karen Kramer, please sayhello to our audience before I
introduce you fully.
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:10):
I love it.
Hello to everyone.
Greg Kuhn (01:14):
I want to share.
Dr Karen Kramer is a mindsetand breakthrough coach.
She is also the founder andowner of the Villa Vision
Wellness and Retreat Center inbeautiful San Diego, california.
That is a spa inspiredtherapeutic center focused on
(01:41):
helping women ground themselvesin happiness, fullness, health
from the inside out.
Since 1993, dr Kramer hashelped tens of thousands of
people all over the worlddiscover how to live a better
(02:05):
life, something that we arecertainly interested in.
She's done it as their coach,as their facilitator, as a
speaker, panelist and certainlyas an author.
In fact, some of her corporateclients include American Express
(02:26):
, boeing, general Motors, nike,google.
We're talking to someone whoknows what they're talking about
.
Today, with over 25 years ofexperience in leadership and
personal development, executiveand breakthrough coaching, dr
(02:48):
Kramer is able to help peopleWell, I say primarily do three
things Identify what they trulywant in life, then release
what's getting in their way andinstall strategies to move them
(03:09):
farther, faster, with longerlasting results.
So today I've invited Dr Kramerhere to talk about something
very important for intentionalmanifesters like us the subject
(03:29):
of grief.
Dr Kramer, my audience is fullof successful people just like
you and me, people who havespiritual practices and
manifesting practices that workfor them.
We meet here to discussmanifesting our lives in those
(03:55):
hard to reach parts of life.
The big stuff like health,wealth, relationships, our love
life and every part of our life,all of those parts of our life,
everything here in threedimensional space time, is being
(04:20):
affected or will be affected byloss.
It's an inescapable part ofthis, all this, that the moment
we say hello to anything here,including our own selves, we
(04:45):
start a ticking clock countingdown to the moment that we're
going to be saying goodbye to it.
And adding to that, of course,we don't know how long that
clock will last, but we do knowthat everything here goes away,
(05:07):
including us, which means thatgrief is baked into this system
that we're participating in.
Now, for me, who better to talkwith us about grief than Dr
Karen Kramer?
(05:28):
Because, dr Kramer, aside fromyour tremendous ability to
transform roadblocks intoopportunities, you also recently
published a brand new lifechanging book on this topic
called Healthy Grief.
(05:50):
And I assume, dr Kramer, thatthere's probably no one size
fits all solution to grief.
You know, I'm an avid runnerand, just like in running, where
the perfect run, it won'tmagically transform my physique
(06:13):
and my fitness, I imagine thequote?
Unquote.
Perfect solution won'tinstantly heal our pain either.
It's got to be a journey,doesn't it?
With gradual growth andtransformation.
I'm assuming you work on whatyou need to work on when you
(06:36):
need to work on it Is that inthe ballpark?
Please set the stage for usabout grief.
What is it, what challengesdoes it present and what brought
your focus to it?
And tell us a little bit moreabout your book.
Dr. Karen Kramer (06:58):
Wonderful, greg.
I love it and I love the setupand introduction.
So, given the fact that you arethe manifestor, I'm going to
start with the flip side of thatand say that society teaches us
a lot about gaining, winning,acquiring things, manifesting
(07:18):
what we want in our lives, butthere's less information that's
out there, whether it is YouTubevideos, books, podcast,
seminars, any kind ofinformation that tells us how to
lose things.
And you had a very good pointabout when we say yes to
something, the time ticks.
It's not like you go into thegrocery store and you pick up
(07:42):
that jug of milk, excuse me, andit has the sell by date on it
or something that has theexpiration date on it.
Even the people we don't havethat expiration date stamped on
our forehead, so we don't know,like even a pet, having a pet,
(08:02):
knowing that at some point intime that might not last our
whole lifetime.
That's a perfect example ofwhen you say yes to something,
we don't necessarily think abouthow we're going to lose that.
So my definition of grieftypically people think about
grief as something that'sassociated with death and dying,
(08:25):
and yes, that is part of it.
But my definition goes beyondthat.
It is that deep sorrow oflosing what once was is no
longer so, focusing on that,what once was is no longer that
could be anything from arelative, who or pets that was
(08:46):
alive and now is no longer.
That could be a relationship wehad and is no longer that could
be a retirement right.
I was in my career, I had thisstructure, I had this lifestyle
and I retire.
This is a current client ofmine.
I retire and people tell me Ishould be excited.
(09:08):
Then why am I dealing with thisemotion?
Because I've lost the structure, I've lost my travel, I've lost
my social network, I've lost myidentity.
I've lost even a client I hadtwo days ago going through a
divorce at 43.
And she said one of the thingsshe's grieving is this loss of
(09:29):
this hope, dream and expectationabout having children.
It doesn't necessarily mean shecan't, only she's processing
through that idea that I may notnecessarily have that.
So there's all different kindsof griefs, some of which are
what they call disenfranchisedgriefs.
Disenfranchised griefs arethose that are not traditionally
(09:53):
seen as griefs in society'seyes, don't have a ceremony like
a funeral associated with itand in some cases, are not
necessarily seen by others likea retirement.
Well, you should be happy thatif somebody's not happy about
that, or dealing with a losswhen that is seen as
disenfranchised, people aretelling her she should be, but
(10:16):
she's not.
Greg Kuhn (10:18):
Is it fair to say that menopause would fall under
that category?
Dr. Karen Kramer (10:22):
Yes, in fact, one of the stories in my healthy
green book is around middle age.
It was a woman who wrote itaround middle age and menopause
and how society has portrayedwhat a woman in middle age would
do and talks about her story,about fighting against that.
(10:43):
Like just because I'm goinginto middle age doesn't mean
that there's something wrongwith me, that I have to either
get makeup or Botox or thesethings to be acceptable.
So, yeah, menopause, and formen as well as women, it's
(11:05):
coming into middle age.
I've even had a client who said, oh, arp is knocking at my door
.
Greg Kuhn (11:12):
This whole idea about 55 years old I'm now old the
concept that we place uponourselves and again, much of
that is society placing thoseexpectations and views that we
may accept on ourselves- I tryreally hard to be a discerning
consumer of conventional wisdom,as a 56 year old myself, and
(11:38):
certainly what I hear you saying, I believe, is that there's a
component to healthy grief andprocessing grief healthily that
brings a certain freedom, orcertainly can.
Dr. Karen Kramer (11:55):
Yes, so I'm going to look at that from two
parts One and the flip side ofit is, let's just say, one
resolved grief can kill you.
I'm just going to say that.
So it is the idea of what aredifferent kinds of grief, and
healthy grief is about how doyou process that so it doesn't
(12:16):
settle within the body.
And that's really, greg, why Iwrote this book, because I want
people to understand how griefis actually embedded in, as you
started off saying, it'sembedded in so many parts of our
lives, this concept about loss.
And when we're not effectivelydealing with it, it can settle
(12:40):
in our body in minor weeks andpains, headaches, shoulder aches
, lower back aches, other majorailments, cysts and even so far
as cancers and heart attacks.
And in our medical fields, wego in and we focus on hey, you
have a heart disease, here's thepill, here's the medication,
(13:01):
here's the surgery.
You have cancer, here's theradiation, here's the process.
However, we don't get to lookat what's underneath that and
what's causing it.
When I actually looked up thismorning, I asked and I said what
is the?
What are the top three causesof death?
And I just looked at theprevious year.
(13:24):
So in this case, it was 2022from the CDC.
Here were the top three thatcame up this morning One, heart
disease.
Two, cancer.
Three is unintentional injury,which again, that could be many
different things.
But even to say that heartdisease and cancers are showing
(13:46):
up there from an energeticperspective, it's not just my
experience with my clients andthe research I've done.
You have others, like theHungarian-Canadian physician, dr
Gabor Mate, who, with his bookthe Myth of Normal, talks a lot
about the failures within themedical industry to just focus
(14:08):
on the symptom of a disease,such as a heart attack and
cancer, and not really goingunderneath that within his
research it's going back tochildhood trauma.
Same things with Dr BasilVonderkalk, who wrote the book
the Body Keeps the Score.
It's so, looking again at whatare and he's a psychotherapist
(14:30):
so looking in the therapyindustry about it's not just
diagnosing and giving somebody apill that's going to numb him
out.
It's let's go underneath, let'sgo down to the unconscious or
subconscious mind and easilyidentify the root cause of this.
So that is all underneath why Iam so passionate about release,
(14:54):
which, yes, it provides usfreedom to the question you
asked when we're releasing, thatwe're not so triggered and hung
up about that grief and also onthe flip side of it.
If we don't release it it cango into other forms of major
minor ailments and dis-ease inour body.
Greg Kuhn (15:20):
Well, listening to you, the idea of not processing
grief, especially in a healthymanner, is a bit frightening to
me, and I want to be transparentand say that, in my experience,
grief itself is a bitfrightening for me.
The emotions associated with itare things I sometimes avoid
(15:46):
processing.
Do you find that common?
I mean, I have some thoughtsabout that which I want to share
a little later.
But if so, what makes griefsuch a scary thing to encounter,
aside from the obvious factthat it's associated with an
undesirable experience in mostcases?
Dr. Karen Kramer (16:09):
Yes, so when working with clients, you
mentioned scary or fear.
Right, so it's.
For what purpose?
Is that emotion underneath it?
So let's take, for example, ifwe have three different
situations of grief a death,let's say a parent death, a
divorce, a parent, a partnerwalks out in us or retirement.
(16:32):
Let's just use those variousdifferent types.
So, in there, if fear or scaryis underneath that, for what
purpose?
So, for example, maybe I amfeeling afraid, it is scary.
I'm feeling afraid because Idon't know what's going to
happen next.
My parent dies.
(16:53):
I don't know what's going tohappen after they die.
My partner walks out.
I don't know what's going tohappen after I go through a
divorce or breakup, retirement.
I don't know what's going tohappen when I step out of the
structure that I've been in forso long, is it?
I don't know.
I'm unsure, I'm unclear aboutthe next step.
(17:13):
Another common one that Iexperience with clients is a
rant and they can be tiedtogether, by the way is this
sense of loss of control forsomebody who needs to have
control.
When somebody passes, I don'thave any control about when they
leave my life.
Of course, I had no controlabout when they choose to, or
(17:35):
the court decides what's goingto happen going forward
Retirement, if I have a sense of, I don't have any control about
what age or how I am going tobe let go or retired from my
company.
So it's getting underneath thatemotion, and the work that I do
with clients is we'veidentified the emotion, what's
(17:58):
underneath that, what's beliefis underneath that.
That is then activating thatemotion associated with it.
Greg Kuhn (18:08):
Oh, it's the grief.
Can almost be a breadcrumbtrail.
Dr. Karen Kramer (18:15):
Yes, it is, it is.
Greg Kuhn (18:18):
And I'm assuming I mean especially based on some
previous conversations we've hadand my own reading of your book
and your material thatbreadcrumb trail can lead us to
some potentially profoundawakenings, as if we're willing
(18:40):
to go there.
Dr. Karen Kramer (18:42):
Definitely definitely.
And in the Healthy Grief bookthere are 30 stories that are in
there.
I originally started this bookwith my own stories and knew I
didn't.
This wasn't about me, thiswasn't about my experiences.
So I actually handpicked someof my clients, some colleagues
who also do this work and someacquaintances who have some very
(19:05):
powerful stories.
So throughout each of thosestories and these, everybody has
submitted a story.
They see my review.
They're basically case studies,myself included.
They're case studies.
So I went through andidentified what are some areas.
I pulled out pieces of theirstory to help the reader
understand those breadcrumbsunderneath the story, behind
(19:31):
what's there.
So yes, it's unraveling.
So one of the things that I dowith my clients in my office
here I actually have a turtlerug.
Turtles are symbolic for me.
It's coming back home, but it'sa circle rug and I typically I
stand on that rug and I say thisthis is your stage.
(19:54):
You are that the center of yourstage, of your life.
I love it when I'm working withteenagers because they already
think they're the center of theuniverse, which is perfect,
because they get the concept and, for no matter the age is, we
are the center of our stage andeverything that happens in our
life, every situation, everyperson that comes in our life,
(20:15):
every experience is happeningfor us.
It's a learning that's therefor us.
So, whether it is an accident,a diagnosis, an event, something
that somebody says and we havea reaction to it, it's less
about that situation, it's lessabout that person, it's less
about what was said.
(20:35):
It's more important about howwe're responding to it, because
we respond out of something thatis within us.
It's within us to explore.
Greg Kuhn (20:46):
Yeah, that's our inner world.
That's a great prompt for mebecause I sadness certainly, I'm
sure, is an emotion that isreasonably synonymous with grief
.
Yeah, sadness, I find, issomething that I often need to
(21:12):
be intentional about processingbecause it's not one of my
favorite emotions.
What other ways does griefmanifest in our lives?
What are some other things thatwe can look for in ways we can
recognize it and also continuingto explore that?
(21:34):
Are there ways that griefmanifests potentially as a
repeating pattern?
I guess, especially if we'renot doing the processing.
Dr. Karen Kramer (21:44):
Yes, and there are so many questions that are
embedded in that, greg.
So I'm going to keep it apartand then help remind me on where
we are.
So I'm going to start firstwith repeating patterns that you
mentioned and let's go back tothat stage analogy.
So we're in my office.
I'm on that turtle stage.
If I find that I continue tohave repeating patterns, let's
(22:08):
just say forsake a conversation.
Relationships.
If you've ever experiencedsomeone I'm sure it's not you,
someone in our life who has gonethrough repeated relationships
different name, different person, same person, different name,
concepts, right.
We can also see that in jobs.
As I was still working withleadership, I've seen that
(22:30):
person where they're like thiscoworker, this boss is
responding this way and I'mthinking did you not say the
same type of thing about yourprevious boss?
Previous, right?
Okay.
Greg Kuhn (22:41):
Right, yeah, I hear that Sometimes I call that kind
of a pattern a geographicalcurer.
Is that?
Am I in the ballpark there?
Dr. Karen Kramer (22:52):
I love it, I have it.
Yeah, it's the commondenominator of one, but they're
looking at it's everybody elseexcept for me, right?
Yes, I hear you loud and clear.
Yeah.
So it's repeating thosepatterns and in this space we
will create those patterns inour life until we recognize it
(23:16):
consciously and do somethingabout it.
I'm going to badly paraphraseand I can't even think you said
it now, so I want to say it'sCarl Young.
Okay, it's a quote I'm unableto articulate right now, but
it's around those unconsciouspatternings that I have that
will continue in our life untilwe are made consciously aware of
(23:38):
it and then break the pattern.
So with that, we're not awareof it.
Sometimes other people can seethose patterns before we do.
It's like Einstein says wecan't.
You know that whole solving theproblem from the same level of
thinking that created theproblem in the first place.
It's that same concept goes forme too.
I try to DIY myself for my owndivorce Did not work, by the way
(23:59):
, you know, having somebody elsethere to support me.
So and see those patterns.
So one of the things that I'veseen, one of the things about
why we're not recognizing thepatterns, is we're not
recognizing the filters that wehave about the way in which we
see the world, and I think weshared this before when we last
(24:19):
chatted.
But there's 11 million bits ofinformation that come at us
every second.
11 million bits of information,from this little font in the
back of the head about thegroceries, to noise that's
around me, to what I'm seeingaround me, what I'm seeing in
here, what I'm interpretingabout what I see, how I feel
(24:39):
with my feet on the floor, socks, shoes so everything.
It's 11 million bits ofinformation, but we can only
filter in somewhere around 128bits per second of information
versus everything that's aroundus.
So the question then becomeswhat is it that helps me focus
on that 128 bits of information?
(25:02):
What are our filters?
And it's our beliefs aboutourselves in the world that
create those filters.
So if, for example, talk abouta relationship one, if I have a
belief that, by the way,limiting beliefs are things that
are usually adapted when we areunder the age of seven or 10,
(25:23):
when we're younger, right basedupon our experiences, we hear
dad talk about how hard it is tomake money Okay, money's hard
to make.
We see a relationship break up,divorce, like relationships are
hard.
Whatever it is, we create thosebeliefs at the subconscious or
unconscious mind.
Those are our filters.
(25:44):
So if I walk around in life andI have a belief that I am not
good enough.
I'm not good enough, okay,which, by the way, I'm not
enough is a common belief in thewomen, specifically, that I
work with.
However, I've also seen that insome of the men that I've
worked with as well.
But if that's my belief thatI'm not enough, then I'm going
(26:07):
to get in a relationship andanything that hints that I'm not
enough I'm going to believethat and I'm going to fight
against it, and that may becreating what's allowing what is
then leading to the demise ofthat relationship.
I'm in a relationship with myboss.
He says something and I go backto he's telling me I'm not
enough, I'm not enough.
(26:28):
He needed to be giving me somehonest feedback to help me
improve.
But I'm hearing I'm not enoughand then, all of a sudden, I'm
creating attention and I'mleaving and going to another job
with another boss, who?
So it's these patterns that arewithin us.
It's the way in which weinterpret the world.
Greg Kuhn (26:47):
With you and I don't want to interrupt your train
here.
Just I want to piggyback onwhat you're saying.
I remember a conversation witha neurosurgeon.
I was asking them about phantompain.
You know that phenomenon whereI've lost a limb or part of my
body, but yet I'm feeling painthere and part and parcel to
(27:13):
your point, they said you know,Greg, obviously that pain is all
in the patient's head, andprobably the biggest hurdle for
someone in that position isaccepting that everything is in
(27:35):
our head, everything isoccurring right here and so,
yeah, we are manifesting theform, function, meaning and
value of all of this our entirelife, utilizing those beliefs
that we inherited, correct, wedidn't choose them off of the
(27:55):
feline, so those beliefs, I'mguessing, are limiting beliefs
that we didn't choose, so we'renot responsible for their
residency in our subconscious.
However, we're profoundly,immensely, completely impacted
(28:15):
by them, and I'm assuming thatthere's a tie in here with grief
.
Dr. Karen Kramer (28:21):
Definitely, definitely.
So, yes, it is all to yourpoint, all within our head and
within, I would say within, theunconscious or subconscious mind
.
I use those termsinterchangeably, depending upon
the field you work in.
So let's just say unconsciousmind for sick and going forward
(28:41):
on this.
So, yes, those beliefs we adoptabout ourselves, other people
in the world, are those that areadopted under the age of seven
or 10, depending upon the theory, right, that we adopt, and or
can go back even further thanthat.
But let's not get into thattheory, let's just keep it
within this time frame, just forconcept of conversation.
(29:02):
So what happens is when we adoptthose beliefs and again,
they're prior, somewhere aroundthe age of seven or 10, that's
when we develop that criticalfaculty, that part of our brain
which then we become morecritical about information we
take in.
We may see something and westart to think is this true or
not?
(29:22):
That's that critical facultyPrior to that seven or 10,.
When that's not fully formed,we take everything in like a
sponge, uncritically.
It's like the reason why wedon't set a child down in front
of a shoot-em-up movie or game,because they may then believe
that to be true.
I remember, at two years old,my husband and his dad at the
(29:45):
time were watching Private Ryanand my two-year-old ran up to
the TV and said no, no, no, no,no, no, no.
He didn't understand that thatwas not real, but he understood
that his body was reacting tothis whole shoot-em-up death and
dying at that point in time.
So, yes, we are not responsibleand we are responsible.
(30:10):
So I'm going to go back to someof that yes and no.
So, yes, it is something that,prior to our age of conscious
awareness, we adopted as truefor ourselves.
So that is like what'sproverbial in the backseat of
our car, that unconsciousprogramming that's telling us
(30:31):
I'm not good enough, I'munlovable, I'm not in control.
Whatever that belief is, it'ssitting in the back.
So here we are, driving alongin our life, ladi-dadi-dadi, and
then something happens,somebody says something, a
situation comes in our life andall of a sudden it's like that
Remember, you're not good enough.
Like it comes in, like whispersin your ear.
(30:54):
You're not paying attention, itsits in your passenger seat of
your car, you're not, stillpaying attention.
It may then start to steer yourlife.
Put on the brakes, the gas,whatever it is, it starts to
take over your life.
So at that point in time, if wefind that unconscious
programming is taking over ourlife, we do have a choice.
(31:15):
We have a choice to continue tolet that pattern happen or we
have a choice to do somethingabout it.
So we are responsible for thatchoice that we have Now in doing
something about it.
The good news is is that it'snot us, it's our programming
that's sitting in the back seatof our car.
(31:37):
It's the programming that'ssitting at the unconscious level
and our programming can change.
Programming can change, solet's map it across to grief,
which was part of your question.
So how is it that somebody likeme can go through two divorces
and multiple deaths and stilllike the last two deaths that I
(31:59):
have?
My brother and my mother passedaway within two weeks period of
time, and I was the head coachfor an organization that was
helping to train other people inthis mindset unconscious work
NLP specifically and it was a 16day program and my role really
is to hold space for thestudents.
(32:20):
So when they do have, any kindof emotion starts bubbling up
and it is a point to where theteam leads are it's for
logistical reasons or they'reunable to handle it.
I need to be able to hold spacefor and help that individual
process.
But if I'm not in an emotionalspace to be able to handle it, I
(32:40):
could be easily triggered bywhatever they are going for and
it's not going to be helpful.
Trauma bonding is not helpful.
So I needed to make sure,before I stepped into that
program, that I was at a placewhere I was healed and grounded
enough where I can hold spacefor those individuals.
And I did that a week after mymom passed away, three weeks
(33:05):
after my brother passed away.
So having gone through this workis because I use the same
skills that I use with myclients.
I used with myself, I processedwith myself and that was one of
the impetus for the book.
If I can do it for myself and Icould do it for my clients, how
then can other people do it?
So a grief is an event in ourlife.
(33:26):
I'm standing on my turtle stage.
That death, that divorce, thatevents is an event in my life
and then it's activating athought, a feeling, a reaction
from me.
So if I am dealing with thetriggers that, for example, one
of those was financially I hadto deal with a lot of my
(33:52):
financial beliefs that I hadwhen I was being raised because
my parents were raised in thedepression.
So a lot of those that money ishard to come by, I have to save
, I have to do all this.
So, releasing that programmingallow me to know that
financially, whether it's adivorce or a death of a parent,
that I'm okay.
(34:13):
Also, releasing that need tohave that person in my life
whether it is a divorce or aparent in my life, I also was
able to ground myself into whoam.
I trust myself, know myself insuch a way.
So, just using those twoexamples, beliefs and feelings
(34:34):
associated with finances,beliefs and feelings associated
with being alone or by myselfthose are things that were tied
into those grief situations.
So once I released what wasn'thelping me, those limiting
beliefs that prevented me frommoving forward, those beliefs
that were minimizing and notallowing me to be grounded in
(34:56):
who I was, then I was more ableto easily walk through those
grief situations, as well asmany that are.
As you mentioned, life is outhere.
I'm gonna say yes, I'm gonnastep into some other grief
situation going forward wherelife is full of those.
(35:16):
That's the way we learn, that'sthe way we grow from the
various different challenges inour life.
Releasing those triggers,identifying those patterns, have
helped me, have helped myclients be able to approach the
next challenge in their lifemuch differently than they have
in the past.
Greg Kuhn (35:35):
Why do ringing endorsement for healthily
processing grief, for havingrespect for grief, for being
intentional with grief,intentional as we approach it
and how we approach it?
It begs the question, I thinkwell, what happens when we don't
(35:59):
process grief?
Calling back to something thatwe touched upon earlier in this
conversation what are some ofthe biggest mistakes that a
griever can make?
Dr. Karen Kramer (36:18):
One of those is avoiding the grief cycle.
I'm fine, I'm fine,everything's fine.
I talk about this in my book.
So there's many differentstages and ways that we may and
reasons why we may avoid it.
I don't have time to grieve.
I even start off my book bytelling my own story about being
(36:40):
there where I thought I wasgoing through the grief process.
But I was approaching itlogically, distracting myself
with dealing with all thelogistics.
And then there was that one daywhere I just broke down, had it
.
It just fented all over myfamily, poor thing, and that
started that cycle of grief.
So back to your question aroundand state your question again,
(37:06):
because I realized I wasstarting to go off track on that
, state your question again.
Greg Kuhn (37:10):
Gladly, gladly at the heart.
What can happen to us when wedon't process grief, and then
what are some of the biggestmistakes that grievers make that
might find us in that position.
Dr. Karen Kramer (37:30):
Yes.
So thank you, Greg.
So thinking about grief asenergy, negative energy that's
in our body, that may be one wayto think about it.
So it could be, and I couldeven get into talking about the
emotions and range of emotionsthat come into.
But so just briefly, becausesome of the range of emotions
(37:52):
you've talked about, some ofthem sadness In some cases
people are shocked, they're numb, like just this event happened
and I'm not quite sure how torespond.
Anger is another common one andagain it depends upon the grief,
this resistance, or hittingrock bottom, going into on the
positive side, going intofinally accepting what that
(38:15):
grief is and also moving intothe healing.
What I just mentioned is partof a model that I have in my
book just to have anunderstanding about the various
different emotions that we mayhave, and we can flow back in
any of those different emotionsand all of the other.
I think there are 36 differentemotions that I talk about as
part of a flow of emotion.
(38:35):
But if we are stuck, let's say,for example, if there's sadness
or there is anger or there'shurt or there's fear, that is in
that grief that's there, thatis stuck, energy that can then
settle within our body.
And to give you an idea, I'lltalk about one of my clients
(38:55):
who's also a story in the book.
She also was the impetus for mestarting this book.
So she came to me because shehad just been diagnosed with
stage two colon cancer.
So I ended up doing a half daysworth of work with her to be
able to release the negativeemotions.
Yes, it can easily be done in ahalf day.
(39:17):
All I did was go through theprocess of releasing the
negative emotions.
Now she was very open with herstory, so it's also in my book.
So I'll talk about some of thedetails here which I normally
wouldn't with other clients.
Reason why she finally decidedto come to me was because her
doctor said to her you may havebeen diagnosed now, but this
(39:40):
cancer, this tumor, this cancerhas been growing in your body
for five years and she finallymade the connection.
Five years prior to that herhusband had passed away, had
committed suicide, so one ofthose things that she held onto
guilt.
And she even said why washolding onto this guilt?
(40:03):
Like it was a?
I needed to take it to my graveand I could feel it in the pit
of my stomach.
So verbalize where she said itwas and that she needed to hold
onto this guilt.
Then, when doing the work also,there was more that ended up
going back.
It wasn't just that event inher life, it went back into
(40:24):
something that happened when shewas six years old too.
So it's these what the rootcause can be anywhere along our
timeline.
But what happened?
By identifying that andreleasing it, it also helped to
release the energy associatedwith that tumor cancerous tumor
and where it was in her body.
(40:45):
So when I talk about this, I'mnot saying that I healed her.
What I did is I allowed her tobe able to process and release
that emotion, which then allowsher body to do what our body is
naturally designed to do is toheal itself.
Greg Kuhn (41:02):
Love that.
So it sounds very much DrKramer like unprocessed grief
can really muddle our efforts tomanifest and live our lives
more intentionally.
Dr. Karen Kramer (41:20):
Yes, back to what I said in the beginning is,
if we want to focus onmanifestation in our life, we
also have to have anunderstanding of the flip side,
which is loss being able toprocess through and losing
something.
Okay, that's part of it, to beable to let go and know that
that's going to be a cycle oflife before we can truly fully
(41:43):
step in to manifesting what wewant in our life.
Versus going towards what wewant in our life and then having
some kind of setback or hiccupin our life and then being stuck
in that energy, because thatstuck energy is going to prevent
us, just to kind of hold usback from fully stepping into
that manifestation in our life.
Greg Kuhn (42:06):
Interesting.
You know you're making me thinkof a quote that I remember
reading as a teenager andthinking why is this a quote?
Because it's so negative frommy teenage perspective.
And the quote is until we agreeto suffer, there will be no end
(42:30):
to the suffering.
As an adult now I understandthat what that quote is
referencing is, if I'm notwilling to look, you know, these
problematic parts of my life inthe eye, it's really really
(42:52):
difficult to move on from them.
And I'm curious, since we aregoing to want to process grief,
since we are going to want tolimit its impact, its negative
impact on our lives, the liveswe're manifesting, what are some
(43:19):
of your best tips forprocessing grief?
I mean, I don't want you tojust to give away the entire
book.
It's a great book andmanifestors intentional
manifestors you're going to wantto read it.
But while we have you here,what are some of your best tips?
Dr. Karen Kramer (43:37):
Yes, the core part of the book is based upon
the Healthy Grief Framework.
So grief, focusing on that word, g-r-i-e-f is the framework to
help process.
I intentionally made this bookeasy so that you can have
conversations with children tosomebody who's older.
(44:01):
So it's intended to be for thegriever as well as the supporter
and easy to remember.
You don't need the book who canremember it.
So G-R-I-E-F gather relate,involve ease and focus and
they're all focused on variousdifferent parts, even as you
(44:22):
think about the body and, again,it's easy to remember and easy
to process.
So gather is around the head.
What logical information do Ineed or do I have about what's
going on?
Are relate, relate to theemotion we may have, relate to
the emotion of others who arebeing affected by this grief.
(44:43):
I involve, involve in actionsteps, what steps, even minor
steps today and, by the way, allof these are questions to
engage in on a daily basis, toassess, and you may not have
answers to all of these on adaily basis, but it's kind of
like to say for those people whoget lost in grief is to have
(45:08):
the roadmap to say here's whereI am, here's the X about where I
am today.
So involve could be somethingas simple as I'm going to get
out of bed before noon, take ashower and get dressed today.
That could be a simple exampleabout involve taking an action
step.
The fourth one ease and, by theway, involve is around feet.
(45:31):
So taking action feet Ease iswith support, formal or informal
support.
I see that as the holding hands.
What support do I need today?
And by home, that could besomething as simple as a friend
or a neighbor bringing overgroceries or prepared food.
(45:51):
It could be something formallike having a lawyer or a doctor
or a therapist or somebody tohelp.
So it's all kind of ease withsupport.
And love is vision, it's thefocus.
What does the new, the future,look like?
(46:12):
The new normal look like?
I also think about the processthrough grief is like a book
itself, and what once was is nolonger like a death or divorce,
retirement, whatever it is.
That's almost like the close ofa chapter of our life.
What once was is no longer.
And so we're in that process,just before we start turning
(46:36):
over that next page to that newchapter of our life where we're
easing between letting go ofthat previous chapter of our
life that we've known for solong and are easing into that
new chapter of our life.
That is, then, with new values,new ways of doing things.
So, for example, like for a,this could happen with both a
(47:00):
divorce as well as a death inthe family.
What do holidays look like?
What's the new normal forholidays?
If we typically went tograndma's house and grandma
passed away, where are we goingto have those holidays?
Grandma usually made thatspecial apple pie.
Is somebody make that specialapple pie?
Are we going to have anothernew tradition that's going to
(47:23):
come about?
How are we going to handlepresence?
So, whatever that new normal isis like that new chapter of our
life, and that's what F focusis about.
So g, r, I, e, f.
So gather information, take tothe emotions, that's what we are
(47:45):
involved in.
Action steps, and they can besimple, okay, easy ones, bees
with support, formal or informal.
What do I need?
And F, what does the new normal, that next chapter, look like?
And a series of questions undereach of those just to gently
(48:05):
just reflect on for each day,yeah, and you know that new
normal right.
Greg Kuhn (48:17):
In many cases, maybe in almost every case, when we're
addressing something assignificant as grief, that's
probably a normal that I don'treally want, at least at first,
wholeheartedly.
I wouldn't have asked for it, Iwouldn't have selected it
(48:40):
myself, most likely.
And right along with that, I'veheard you refer to processing
grief as setting your heart free.
So help me join those twothings together.
(49:06):
If I'm setting my heart free,obviously that means my heart
was bound, and yet I'm settingit free into a new normal.
That certainly is painful.
You know, in a grief eventYou're speaking to this and
(49:34):
those steps that you just wentover for us, they can help me
bridge that divide.
Dr. Karen Kramer (49:42):
They can.
So you're getting me to thinkabout some of the stories that I
have in the book which areintended to be.
There are various differentways to process through grief.
There are various differentgrief situations that are out
there.
So it's intended to give hope,and it's also intended to
(50:03):
recognize there are variousdifferent paths to that next
chapter to free your heart.
As an example, and the eventhat, the grief path that I just
gave you was not intended to belinear.
You can only go through thisway.
It's just to give you aframework.
Okay, where are you today?
(50:24):
What does tomorrow look like?
It could be something as simpleas that, and so, after each of
the 30 stories, I then gothrough and identify each part
of the RIF framework to reallyhelp people understand.
For example, one of the storiesthat is in there is Erica Davis,
who, at the age of 24, ended upwith a rare disease that then
(50:50):
crippled her to the point whereshe became a paraplegic.
She was an athlete.
Even with her story as far backas three years old, she was an
athlete and, at 24 years old,ended up becoming a paraplegic.
Her story after that is abouther life did not end.
She didn't sit on the couch.
(51:11):
She didn't wallow.
Did she ever down days?
Yes, but she also turned itaround into okay, this is the
way it is Like medically.
She wasn't necessarily going toget her legs back.
That was in part of thisprocess that you're talking
about, greg, and even when Italk about the relates the
relating to your emotions andcoming out of it, acceptance is
(51:33):
part of that stage.
At what point am I acceptingthat this is just the way things
are?
I'm not going to get back mydead parent.
I'm not going to get back my ex.
I'm not going to get my legsback.
Okay, in Erica's situation,it's an accepting of what is,
and that really is part of thatgrief process, and that's also
(51:56):
how do you lead up to that point.
So, once you accept what thatis, that then helps you move
into that new normal.
Erica is the very firstparaplegic to summit Mount
Kilimanjaro.
Well, I don't know about you,but I've never been at Mount
Kilimanjaro.
There's many people around theworld who have never been at
Mount Kilimanjaro.
(52:17):
She's also been one of thenational champions and
Paralympics in multipledifferent I wouldn't even start
to name all of them jet skiing,canoeing, curling, biking all
these things that she has done.
She just had a I believe her42nd birthday, so all these
(52:41):
things that she has done whenshe is a paraplegic.
So, to answer your question, itis around.
When we get to the point andthis is all intended to get to
us to a point where we acceptwhat is that has occurred that
in our life we're not bargaining, we're trying to get our
(53:02):
partner back, we're not retiringand then thinking maybe we can
go back into the organizationand consult, just because we're
not ready to let go, or we'regrieving so much about an elder
that has passed, or and there's.
I'm only sticking with thosethree for the sake.
But there's multiple differentgriefs that are out there.
The more we can accept, themore we can then step into.
(53:23):
What is that new normal In mybook?
There's also individuals.
There's seven different typesof griefs that I talk about in
there from death and dying,intimate relationship related,
such as divorces.
Non intimate relatedrelationships, like my divisions
(53:44):
, and family estrangedrelationships.
Two maternity losses.
Two identity crisis fromshifting gears, from between
career related shifts and losingour identity in the process.
I'm missing one.
The very last chapter istrilogy, where you have multiple
(54:04):
different, complex, compoundgriefs that happen back to back,
and so all of those are to helpthe reader understand, as well
as to gain their own sense abouttheir own path they're going to
.
Some stories won't resonate withthem, other stories.
Whatever resonates is pick upon the ways in which they
process through.
(54:25):
What were the emotions thatthey dealt with, what were the
challenges that they faced?
What are those things that theythought?
What are those things theyovercame?
Two of the individualsspecifically are dealing with
health diagnosis.
It's not like, in some cases,this is their life.
How, then, do they processthrough, knowing that there's
(54:45):
only so much they can do to comeback to a completely whole and
healthy body?
Some can, some are in thesituation where this is my
reality right now, like kidneydialysis is one of them Waiting
for a kidney?
This is my life right now.
What can I do with what I havein my life right now without
getting stuck in that emotion ofwhy me?
(55:07):
Why is this happening to me?
Mad at God, mad at doctors, madat other people?
Right, because that's all stuck.
Energy is releasing that andsaying, okay, here's what the
cards I'm dealt with right now.
What's the next step?
What's the next step that'sgoing to get me to move towards
what I want in my life, versussitting back and wallowing and
(55:28):
taking me down in my life.
Greg Kuhn (55:33):
Powerful testimony.
Dr Kramer, we are unfortunatelystarting to bump up against
time here.
I have to say we could probablyhave 10 different podcasts
emerge from just this onediscussion.
I've had to reign myself innumerous times to honor time.
(55:55):
Actually, that's a great segue.
The last thing that I'd like toask you about I want to share
just a little bit.
First, I won't take too long,because I've done a lot of
searching before we had thisconversation about grief and my
(56:20):
experiences with it.
After I share just a little bit, I really want to make sure
that we get you to share with ussome of your best advice about
this really important topic forpeople moving forward.
(56:43):
I mentioned time.
For me, one of the reasons thatgrief is so pervasive is that
we can actually re-experience it.
Time is a very effectiveillusion.
I don't think it comes as asurprise to anyone listening to
(57:06):
this that we know that reallyeverything is all happening at
once.
We're just experiencing it inthis logical, linear unfolding.
Because everything's happeningat once, we are readily able to
energetically connect withfuture versions of ourselves.
(57:26):
We can connect with futureversions of ourselves in parts
of our future life where we areexperiencing grief events, those
losses that we know are coming,including our own.
That's not even mentioning ourability to energetically connect
(57:50):
with our past selves andexperiencing previous grief
events right now through thatenergetic connection, just like
we can do with our future selves.
Of course, we also experiencegrief in the present moment too,
(58:12):
and, based on our conversation,I know that's where we can
process grief healthily.
I just want to share this, andthen I want to ask you for your
best advice.
One of my takeaways as I'veprepared for our conversation is
(58:35):
that the people in my life, thepeople that I love and the
people that populate my life,they're always going to exist in
one form, as an idea in my mind.
In that way, the people whoaren't around me physically
(58:59):
right now, as ideas in my mind.
They're as real as someone thatI'm looking at in that way.
That's a very powerful way, aswe know.
In fact, all of this past,present and future exists as an
idea in my mind.
(59:20):
What I was led to followingthis line of thinking is that
the people, the places, thethings that are here with me
right now well, right now is mytime to be with them as more
(59:49):
than just an idea, and eachmoment offers me a strings-free
opportunity to take fulladvantage of my current access
to those people.
Well, you know what Griefbrings me.
(01:00:10):
That Grief provides me thatperspective.
Grief opens the door for me toexplore such concepts, which I
find incredibly enriching.
You have made so much more of astudy of this, of course.
So we've got to know, we've gotto ask you.
(01:00:35):
My audience is full of peoplewho I would say they know what
they're doing, and yet we knowthat life is full of hard to
reach areas.
We know that our knowledge ofwhat's possible for us,
especially in the most importantparts of our lives, is always
(01:00:58):
growing, always expanding.
We're going to have griefevents.
They're going to touch us,they're going to have deep
impact in our life and manypeople listening right now might
be experiencing that in thismoment.
What is your best advice?
Not only to be well-preparedfor grief when the inevitable
(01:01:23):
events arrive.
What's your best advice to letgo of past grief that we might
be carrying?
And how about somebody who'sexperiencing grief right now?
And I know that you couldprobably talk about this is such
a big question, but if you werein an elevator with somebody
(01:01:44):
now, don't spend more than 20seconds, please.
But how can someone unlocktheir unique path to healing,
while grief is an ever-presentpart of their life.
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:02:04):
The first thoughts that come to mind, greg
because I could go up in somany different directions, given
the wonderful setup iscompassion and curiosity.
Compassion for yourself andcuriosity for what is happening
in and around you.
There's a phrase that I love touse, and it's for what purpose?
(01:02:26):
For what purpose is thishappening for me?
Now?
It's a different question thanwhy.
Why is this happening to me?
Why am I always getting this?
Why is this happening to me?
Turn it around.
Why any voice Is.
For what purpose am I beingdiagnosed with this?
(01:02:46):
For what purpose is this bossshowing up in my life and I'm
feeling this way about this?
For what purpose am I thinkingand feeling this as I'm sitting
with an elderly parent who's inthe process of passing?
For what purpose am I thinkingand feeling this way?
(01:03:11):
Negative thoughts and feelingsabout retiring, when other
people are telling me that Ishould be happy about this?
Just using those examples forwhat purpose?
Gives us an opportunity to becurious about our thoughts, our
feelings and our reactions, withcompassion for ourselves.
(01:03:34):
Compassion for the events andpeople and situations in our
life, because they are allhappening for us, which gives a
window into why that may behappening for us now, because
many of the things that may behappening for us even if it is a
grief, how we're responding tothat grief or how it's
(01:03:56):
manifesting in our body, canactually be much more than the
experiences that have occurredin our current lifetime.
They could be physical ailments, beliefs and things that could
be carried from past generationsto past lifetimes that we have
had, and again, we can go off onthat topic.
(01:04:17):
I know that we can, but I'vealso experienced that with
clients.
Again, it may be beliefs orissues or responses to grief
that have nothing to do with ourcurrent lifetime, and the more
that we can just approach itfrom a place of compassion and
curiosity for what purpose itcould help us unravel the
(01:04:40):
mystery of that for us.
Greg Kuhn (01:04:42):
I love that actionable takeaway.
That's a phrase that I'm goingto carry into many situations,
not just grief, events for whatpurpose I love that.
And compassion and curiosity.
(01:05:03):
We're never going to be sorryto employ those things.
Those are perspectives andapproaches that don't let us
down, do they?
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:05:14):
Correct, correct.
They're just a window tounderstand ourselves in this
lifetime of opportunities toexplore the wonders of life,
which include the losses andgriefs as well.
Greg Kuhn (01:05:29):
Well said, well said, and I'm a gamer.
I can't thank you enough fornot only your time, but your
full presence here and the waythat you gave us everything that
you had.
I know that we have made goodon our intent to create
(01:05:52):
something of tremendous valuehere, and, before we do any sort
of wrapping up, I want to takethis opportunity to share with
everyone listening two thingsprimarily.
One we're going to make surethat we have all the links to Dr
(01:06:12):
Karen Kramer in the descriptionof this episode, whether you're
watching on YouTube or you'relistening on your favorite
podcasting platform.
So go there to follow up andmake sure that we can continue
conversations like thisimpactful, powerful
(01:06:33):
conversations about manifestingour lives more intentionally by
joining my Facebook group that'scalled Manifest the Big Stuff
with Greg Kuhn, creating ourrealities together.
The link to that is also in thedescription.
(01:06:53):
There, you're going to findcontent from me that's exclusive
to that group, availablenowhere else, and it's a lot of
fun to foster those ongoingrelationships.
I'm an active member of thatcommunity and I would love to
see anybody and everybody there,so please take advantage of
(01:07:19):
that invitation and thatopportunity.
Wow, dr Kramer, there's nothingmore valuable than our time,
and that definitely ties intotoday's topic, doesn't it?
You shared it with us.
Our listeners are sharing itwith the two of us right now.
(01:07:40):
I'm very appreciative to youand to them, the beautiful souls
that have made this hourtogether so powerful and
impactful.
Thank you so much for your time.
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:07:58):
Thank you, greg, and the listeners.
Greg Kuhn (01:08:03):
Yes, absolutely.
I look forward to continuing tolearn from your journey,
because I know the openness andthe intent that you bring to
what you share and, wow, we'llbe happy to be a part of that
(01:08:24):
moving forward, and I think thatyou have successfully
introduced many, many people toa new avenue of resources
through your site and your booksand your coaching.
So that wraps up this powerfulepisode of Manifest, the Big
(01:08:47):
Stuff.
Until we get a chance to meetagain, my friends, keep
believing, keep manifesting,keep making the most of your
time.
I will do likewise.
Hello, beautiful souls.
It's Greg Kuhn, again yourintentional manifesting coach,
and I am so excited to be herewith you today on Manifest the
Big Stuff.
I'm so excited because we havean amazing guest with us today,
(00:33):
dr Karen Kramer, who I cannotwait to havea conversation with,
and I'm so excited that you areparticipating, that you are
going to and are listening to orwatching this conversation
right now, because I know howmuch value there is in it, even
(00:57):
though we haven't had it yet,and I'm sure that makes sense to
you.
Dr Karen Kramer, please sayhello to our audience before I
introduce you fully.
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:10):
I love it.
Hello to everyone.
Greg Kuhn (01:14):
I want to share.
Dr Karen Kramer is a mindsetand breakthrough coach.
She is also the founder andowner of the Villa Vision
Wellness and Retreat Center inbeautiful San Diego, california.
That is a spa inspiredtherapeutic center focused on
(01:41):
helping women ground themselvesin happiness, fullness, health
from the inside out.
Since 1993, dr Kramer hashelped tens of thousands of
people all over the worlddiscover how to live a better
(02:05):
life, something that we arecertainly interested in.
She's done it as their coach,as their facilitator, as a
speaker, panelist and certainlyas an author.
In fact, some of her corporateclients include American Express
(02:26):
, boeing, general Motors, nike,google.
We're talking to someone whoknows what they're talking about
.
Today, with over 25 years ofexperience in leadership and
personal development, executiveand breakthrough coaching, dr
(02:48):
Kramer is able to help peopleWell, I say primarily do three
things Identify what they trulywant in life, then release
what's getting in their way andinstall strategies to move them
(03:09):
farther, faster, with longerlasting results.
So today I've invited Dr Kramerhere to talk about something
very important for intentionalmanifesters like us the subject
(03:29):
of grief.
Dr Kramer, my audience is fullof successful people just like
you and me, people who havespiritual practices and
manifesting practices that workfor them.
We meet here to discussmanifesting our lives in those
(03:55):
hard to reach parts of life.
The big stuff like health,wealth, relationships, our love
life and every part of our life,all of those parts of our life,
everything here in threedimensional space time, is being
(04:20):
affected or will be affected byloss.
It's an inescapable part ofthis, all this, that the moment
we say hello to anything here,including our own selves, we
(04:45):
start a ticking clock countingdown to the moment that we're
going to be saying goodbye to it.
And adding to that, of course,we don't know how long that
clock will last, but we do knowthat everything here goes away,
(05:07):
including us, which means thatgrief is baked into this system
that we're participating in.
Now, for me, who better to talkwith us about grief than Dr
Karen Kramer?
(05:28):
Because, dr Kramer, aside fromyour tremendous ability to
transform roadblocks intoopportunities, you also recently
published a brand new lifechanging book on this topic
called Healthy Grief.
(05:50):
And I assume, dr Kramer, thatthere's probably no one size
fits all solution to grief.
You know, I'm an avid runnerand, just like in running, where
the perfect run, it won'tmagically transform my physique
(06:13):
and my fitness, I imagine thequote?
Unquote.
Perfect solution won'tinstantly heal our pain either.
It's got to be a journey,doesn't it?
With gradual growth andtransformation.
I'm assuming you work on whatyou need to work on when you
(06:36):
need to work on it Is that inthe ballpark?
Please set the stage for usabout grief.
What is it, what challengesdoes it present and what brought
your focus to it?
And tell us a little bit moreabout your book.
Dr. Karen Kramer (06:58):
Wonderful, greg.
I love it and I love the setupand introduction.
So, given the fact that you arethe manifestor, I'm going to
start with the flip side of thatand say that society teaches us
a lot about gaining, winning,acquiring things, manifesting
(07:18):
what we want in our lives, butthere's less information that's
out there, whether it is YouTubevideos, books, podcast,
seminars, any kind ofinformation that tells us how to
lose things.
And you had a very good pointabout when we say yes to
something, the time ticks.
It's not like you go into thegrocery store and you pick up
(07:42):
that jug of milk, excuse me, andit has the sell by date on it
or something that has theexpiration date on it.
Even the people we don't havethat expiration date stamped on
our forehead, so we don't know,like even a pet, having a pet,
(08:02):
knowing that at some point intime that might not last our
whole lifetime.
That's a perfect example ofwhen you say yes to something,
we don't necessarily think abouthow we're going to lose that.
So my definition of grieftypically people think about
grief as something that'sassociated with death and dying,
(08:25):
and yes, that is part of it.
But my definition goes beyondthat.
It is that deep sorrow oflosing what once was is no
longer so, focusing on that,what once was is no longer that
could be anything from arelative, who or pets that was
(08:46):
alive and now is no longer.
That could be a relationship wehad and is no longer that could
be a retirement right.
I was in my career, I had thisstructure, I had this lifestyle
and I retire.
This is a current client ofmine.
I retire and people tell me Ishould be excited.
(09:08):
Then why am I dealing with thisemotion?
Because I've lost the structure, I've lost my travel, I've lost
my social network, I've lost myidentity.
I've lost even a client I hadtwo days ago going through a
divorce at 43.
And she said one of the thingsshe's grieving is this loss of
(09:29):
this hope, dream and expectationabout having children.
It doesn't necessarily mean shecan't, only she's processing
through that idea that I may notnecessarily have that.
So there's all different kindsof griefs, some of which are
what they call disenfranchisedgriefs.
Disenfranchised griefs arethose that are not traditionally
(09:53):
seen as griefs in society'seyes, don't have a ceremony like
a funeral associated with itand in some cases, are not
necessarily seen by others likea retirement.
Well, you should be happy thatif somebody's not happy about
that, or dealing with a losswhen that is seen as
disenfranchised, people aretelling her she should be, but
(10:16):
she's not.
Greg Kuhn (10:18):
Is it fair to say that menopause would fall under
that category?
Dr. Karen Kramer (10:22):
Yes, in fact, one of the stories in my healthy
green book is around middle age.
It was a woman who wrote itaround middle age and menopause
and how society has portrayedwhat a woman in middle age would
do and talks about her story,about fighting against that.
(10:43):
Like just because I'm goinginto middle age doesn't mean
that there's something wrongwith me, that I have to either
get makeup or Botox or thesethings to be acceptable.
So, yeah, menopause, and formen as well as women, it's
(11:05):
coming into middle age.
I've even had a client who said, oh, arp is knocking at my door
.
Greg Kuhn (11:12):
This whole idea about 55 years old I'm now old the
concept that we place uponourselves and again, much of
that is society placing thoseexpectations and views that we
may accept on ourselves- I tryreally hard to be a discerning
consumer of conventional wisdom,as a 56 year old myself, and
(11:38):
certainly what I hear you saying, I believe, is that there's a
component to healthy grief andprocessing grief healthily that
brings a certain freedom, orcertainly can.
Dr. Karen Kramer (11:55):
Yes, so I'm going to look at that from two
parts One and the flip side ofit is, let's just say, one
resolved grief can kill you.
I'm just going to say that.
So it is the idea of what aredifferent kinds of grief, and
healthy grief is about how doyou process that so it doesn't
(12:16):
settle within the body.
And that's really, greg, why Iwrote this book, because I want
people to understand how griefis actually embedded in, as you
started off saying, it'sembedded in so many parts of our
lives, this concept about loss.
And when we're not effectivelydealing with it, it can settle
(12:40):
in our body in minor weeks andpains, headaches, shoulder aches
, lower back aches, other majorailments, cysts and even so far
as cancers and heart attacks.
And in our medical fields, wego in and we focus on hey, you
have a heart disease, here's thepill, here's the medication,
(13:01):
here's the surgery.
You have cancer, here's theradiation, here's the process.
However, we don't get to lookat what's underneath that and
what's causing it.
When I actually looked up thismorning, I asked and I said what
is the?
What are the top three causesof death?
And I just looked at theprevious year.
(13:24):
So in this case, it was 2022from the CDC.
Here were the top three thatcame up this morning One, heart
disease.
Two, cancer.
Three is unintentional injury,which again, that could be many
different things.
But even to say that heartdisease and cancers are showing
(13:46):
up there from an energeticperspective, it's not just my
experience with my clients andthe research I've done.
You have others, like theHungarian-Canadian physician, dr
Gabor Mate, who, with his bookthe Myth of Normal, talks a lot
about the failures within themedical industry to just focus
(14:08):
on the symptom of a disease,such as a heart attack and
cancer, and not really goingunderneath that within his
research it's going back tochildhood trauma.
Same things with Dr BasilVonderkalk, who wrote the book
the Body Keeps the Score.
It's so, looking again at whatare and he's a psychotherapist
(14:30):
so looking in the therapyindustry about it's not just
diagnosing and giving somebody apill that's going to numb him
out.
It's let's go underneath, let'sgo down to the unconscious or
subconscious mind and easilyidentify the root cause of this.
So that is all underneath why Iam so passionate about release,
(14:54):
which, yes, it provides usfreedom to the question you
asked when we're releasing, thatwe're not so triggered and hung
up about that grief and also onthe flip side of it.
If we don't release it it cango into other forms of major
minor ailments and dis-ease inour body.
Greg Kuhn (15:20):
Well, listening to you, the idea of not processing
grief, especially in a healthymanner, is a bit frightening to
me, and I want to be transparentand say that, in my experience,
grief itself is a bitfrightening for me.
The emotions associated with itare things I sometimes avoid
(15:46):
processing.
Do you find that common?
I mean, I have some thoughtsabout that which I want to share
a little later.
But if so, what makes griefsuch a scary thing to encounter,
aside from the obvious factthat it's associated with an
undesirable experience in mostcases?
Dr. Karen Kramer (16:09):
Yes, so when working with clients, you
mentioned scary or fear.
Right, so it's.
For what purpose?
Is that emotion underneath it?
So let's take, for example, ifwe have three different
situations of grief a death,let's say a parent death, a
divorce, a parent, a partnerwalks out in us or retirement.
(16:32):
Let's just use those variousdifferent types.
So, in there, if fear or scaryis underneath that, for what
purpose?
So, for example, maybe I amfeeling afraid, it is scary.
I'm feeling afraid because Idon't know what's going to
happen next.
My parent dies.
(16:53):
I don't know what's going tohappen after they die.
My partner walks out.
I don't know what's going tohappen after I go through a
divorce or breakup, retirement.
I don't know what's going tohappen when I step out of the
structure that I've been in forso long, is it?
I don't know.
I'm unsure, I'm unclear aboutthe next step.
(17:13):
Another common one that Iexperience with clients is a
rant and they can be tiedtogether, by the way is this
sense of loss of control forsomebody who needs to have
control.
When somebody passes, I don'thave any control about when they
leave my life.
Of course, I had no controlabout when they choose to, or
(17:35):
the court decides what's goingto happen going forward
Retirement, if I have a sense of, I don't have any control about
what age or how I am going tobe let go or retired from my
company.
So it's getting underneath thatemotion, and the work that I do
with clients is we'veidentified the emotion, what's
(17:58):
underneath that, what's beliefis underneath that.
That is then activating thatemotion associated with it.
Greg Kuhn (18:08):
Oh, it's the grief.
Can almost be a breadcrumbtrail.
Dr. Karen Kramer (18:15):
Yes, it is, it is.
Greg Kuhn (18:18):
And I'm assuming I mean especially based on some
previous conversations we've hadand my own reading of your book
and your material thatbreadcrumb trail can lead us to
some potentially profoundawakenings, as if we're willing
(18:40):
to go there.
Dr. Karen Kramer (18:42):
Definitely definitely.
And in the Healthy Grief bookthere are 30 stories that are in
there.
I originally started this bookwith my own stories and knew I
didn't.
This wasn't about me, thiswasn't about my experiences.
So I actually handpicked someof my clients, some colleagues
who also do this work and someacquaintances who have some very
(19:05):
powerful stories.
So throughout each of thosestories and these, everybody has
submitted a story.
They see my review.
They're basically case studies,myself included.
They're case studies.
So I went through andidentified what are some areas.
I pulled out pieces of theirstory to help the reader
understand those breadcrumbsunderneath the story, behind
(19:31):
what's there.
So yes, it's unraveling.
So one of the things that I dowith my clients in my office
here I actually have a turtlerug.
Turtles are symbolic for me.
It's coming back home, but it'sa circle rug and I typically I
stand on that rug and I say thisthis is your stage.
(19:54):
You are that the center of yourstage, of your life.
I love it when I'm working withteenagers because they already
think they're the center of theuniverse, which is perfect,
because they get the concept and, for no matter the age is, we
are the center of our stage andeverything that happens in our
life, every situation, everyperson that comes in our life,
(20:15):
every experience is happeningfor us.
It's a learning that's therefor us.
So, whether it is an accident,a diagnosis, an event, something
that somebody says and we havea reaction to it, it's less
about that situation, it's lessabout that person, it's less
about what was said.
(20:35):
It's more important about howwe're responding to it, because
we respond out of something thatis within us.
It's within us to explore.
Greg Kuhn (20:46):
Yeah, that's our inner world.
That's a great prompt for mebecause I sadness certainly, I'm
sure, is an emotion that isreasonably synonymous with grief
.
Yeah, sadness, I find, issomething that I often need to
(21:12):
be intentional about processingbecause it's not one of my
favorite emotions.
What other ways does griefmanifest in our lives?
What are some other things thatwe can look for in ways we can
recognize it and also continuingto explore that?
(21:34):
Are there ways that griefmanifests potentially as a
repeating pattern?
I guess, especially if we'renot doing the processing.
Dr. Karen Kramer (21:44):
Yes, and there are so many questions that are
embedded in that, greg.
So I'm going to keep it apartand then help remind me on where
we are.
So I'm going to start firstwith repeating patterns that you
mentioned and let's go back tothat stage analogy.
So we're in my office.
I'm on that turtle stage.
If I find that I continue tohave repeating patterns, let's
(22:08):
just say forsake a conversation.
Relationships.
If you've ever experiencedsomeone I'm sure it's not you,
someone in our life who has gonethrough repeated relationships
different name, different person, same person, different name,
concepts, right.
We can also see that in jobs.
As I was still working withleadership, I've seen that
(22:30):
person where they're like thiscoworker, this boss is
responding this way and I'mthinking did you not say the
same type of thing about yourprevious boss?
Previous, right?
Okay.
Greg Kuhn (22:41):
Right, yeah, I hear that Sometimes I call that kind
of a pattern a geographicalcurer.
Is that?
Am I in the ballpark there?
Dr. Karen Kramer (22:52):
I love it, I have it.
Yeah, it's the commondenominator of one, but they're
looking at it's everybody elseexcept for me, right?
Yes, I hear you loud and clear.
Yeah.
So it's repeating thosepatterns and in this space we
will create those patterns inour life until we recognize it
(23:16):
consciously and do somethingabout it.
I'm going to badly paraphraseand I can't even think you said
it now, so I want to say it'sCarl Young.
Okay, it's a quote I'm unableto articulate right now, but
it's around those unconsciouspatternings that I have that
will continue in our life untilwe are made consciously aware of
(23:38):
it and then break the pattern.
So with that, we're not awareof it.
Sometimes other people can seethose patterns before we do.
It's like Einstein says wecan't.
You know that whole solving theproblem from the same level of
thinking that created theproblem in the first place.
It's that same concept goes forme too.
I try to DIY myself for my owndivorce Did not work, by the way
(23:59):
, you know, having somebody elsethere to support me.
So and see those patterns.
So one of the things that I'veseen, one of the things about
why we're not recognizing thepatterns, is we're not
recognizing the filters that wehave about the way in which we
see the world, and I think weshared this before when we last
(24:19):
chatted.
But there's 11 million bits ofinformation that come at us
every second.
11 million bits of information,from this little font in the
back of the head about thegroceries, to noise that's
around me, to what I'm seeingaround me, what I'm seeing in
here, what I'm interpretingabout what I see, how I feel
(24:39):
with my feet on the floor, socks, shoes so everything.
It's 11 million bits ofinformation, but we can only
filter in somewhere around 128bits per second of information
versus everything that's aroundus.
So the question then becomeswhat is it that helps me focus
on that 128 bits of information?
(25:02):
What are our filters?
And it's our beliefs aboutourselves in the world that
create those filters.
So if, for example, talk abouta relationship one, if I have a
belief that, by the way,limiting beliefs are things that
are usually adapted when we areunder the age of seven or 10,
(25:23):
when we're younger, right basedupon our experiences, we hear
dad talk about how hard it is tomake money Okay, money's hard
to make.
We see a relationship break up,divorce, like relationships are
hard.
Whatever it is, we create thosebeliefs at the subconscious or
unconscious mind.
Those are our filters.
(25:44):
So if I walk around in life andI have a belief that I am not
good enough.
I'm not good enough, okay,which, by the way, I'm not
enough is a common belief in thewomen, specifically, that I
work with.
However, I've also seen that insome of the men that I've
worked with as well.
But if that's my belief thatI'm not enough, then I'm going
(26:07):
to get in a relationship andanything that hints that I'm not
enough I'm going to believethat and I'm going to fight
against it, and that may becreating what's allowing what is
then leading to the demise ofthat relationship.
I'm in a relationship with myboss.
He says something and I go backto he's telling me I'm not
enough, I'm not enough.
(26:28):
He needed to be giving me somehonest feedback to help me
improve.
But I'm hearing I'm not enoughand then, all of a sudden, I'm
creating attention and I'mleaving and going to another job
with another boss, who?
So it's these patterns that arewithin us.
It's the way in which weinterpret the world.
Greg Kuhn (26:47):
With you and I don't want to interrupt your train
here.
Just I want to piggyback onwhat you're saying.
I remember a conversation witha neurosurgeon.
I was asking them about phantompain.
You know that phenomenon whereI've lost a limb or part of my
body, but yet I'm feeling painthere and part and parcel to
(27:13):
your point, they said you know,Greg, obviously that pain is all
in the patient's head, andprobably the biggest hurdle for
someone in that position isaccepting that everything is in
(27:35):
our head, everything isoccurring right here and so,
yeah, we are manifesting theform, function, meaning and
value of all of this our entirelife, utilizing those beliefs
that we inherited, correct, wedidn't choose them off of the
(27:55):
feline, so those beliefs, I'mguessing, are limiting beliefs
that we didn't choose, so we'renot responsible for their
residency in our subconscious.
However, we're profoundly,immensely, completely impacted
(28:15):
by them, and I'm assuming thatthere's a tie in here with grief
.
Dr. Karen Kramer (28:21):
Definitely, definitely.
So, yes, it is all to yourpoint, all within our head and
within, I would say within, theunconscious or subconscious mind
.
I use those termsinterchangeably, depending upon
the field you work in.
So let's just say unconsciousmind for sick and going forward
(28:41):
on this.
So, yes, those beliefs we adoptabout ourselves, other people
in the world, are those that areadopted under the age of seven
or 10, depending upon the theory, right, that we adopt, and or
can go back even further thanthat.
But let's not get into thattheory, let's just keep it
within this time frame, just forconcept of conversation.
(29:02):
So what happens is when we adoptthose beliefs and again,
they're prior, somewhere aroundthe age of seven or 10, that's
when we develop that criticalfaculty, that part of our brain
which then we become morecritical about information we
take in.
We may see something and westart to think is this true or
not?
(29:22):
That's that critical facultyPrior to that seven or 10,.
When that's not fully formed,we take everything in like a
sponge, uncritically.
It's like the reason why wedon't set a child down in front
of a shoot-em-up movie or game,because they may then believe
that to be true.
I remember, at two years old,my husband and his dad at the
(29:45):
time were watching Private Ryanand my two-year-old ran up to
the TV and said no, no, no, no,no, no, no.
He didn't understand that thatwas not real, but he understood
that his body was reacting tothis whole shoot-em-up death and
dying at that point in time.
So, yes, we are not responsibleand we are responsible.
(30:10):
So I'm going to go back to someof that yes and no.
So, yes, it is something that,prior to our age of conscious
awareness, we adopted as truefor ourselves.
So that is like what'sproverbial in the backseat of
our car, that unconsciousprogramming that's telling us
(30:31):
I'm not good enough, I'munlovable, I'm not in control.
Whatever that belief is, it'ssitting in the back.
So here we are, driving alongin our life, ladi-dadi-dadi, and
then something happens,somebody says something, a
situation comes in our life andall of a sudden it's like that
Remember, you're not good enough.
Like it comes in, like whispersin your ear.
(30:54):
You're not paying attention, itsits in your passenger seat of
your car, you're not, stillpaying attention.
It may then start to steer yourlife.
Put on the brakes, the gas,whatever it is, it starts to
take over your life.
So at that point in time, if wefind that unconscious
programming is taking over ourlife, we do have a choice.
(31:15):
We have a choice to continue tolet that pattern happen or we
have a choice to do somethingabout it.
So we are responsible for thatchoice that we have Now in doing
something about it.
The good news is is that it'snot us, it's our programming
that's sitting in the back seatof our car.
(31:37):
It's the programming that'ssitting at the unconscious level
and our programming can change.
Programming can change, solet's map it across to grief,
which was part of your question.
So how is it that somebody likeme can go through two divorces
and multiple deaths and stilllike the last two deaths that I
(31:59):
have?
My brother and my mother passedaway within two weeks period of
time, and I was the head coachfor an organization that was
helping to train other people inthis mindset unconscious work
NLP specifically and it was a 16day program and my role really
is to hold space for thestudents.
(32:20):
So when they do have, any kindof emotion starts bubbling up
and it is a point to where theteam leads are it's for
logistical reasons or they'reunable to handle it.
I need to be able to hold spacefor and help that individual
process.
But if I'm not in an emotionalspace to be able to handle it, I
(32:40):
could be easily triggered bywhatever they are going for and
it's not going to be helpful.
Trauma bonding is not helpful.
So I needed to make sure,before I stepped into that
program, that I was at a placewhere I was healed and grounded
enough where I can hold spacefor those individuals.
And I did that a week after mymom passed away, three weeks
(33:05):
after my brother passed away.
So having gone through this workis because I use the same
skills that I use with myclients.
I used with myself, I processedwith myself and that was one of
the impetus for the book.
If I can do it for myself and Icould do it for my clients, how
then can other people do it?
So a grief is an event in ourlife.
(33:26):
I'm standing on my turtle stage.
That death, that divorce, thatevents is an event in my life
and then it's activating athought, a feeling, a reaction
from me.
So if I am dealing with thetriggers that, for example, one
of those was financially I hadto deal with a lot of my
(33:52):
financial beliefs that I hadwhen I was being raised because
my parents were raised in thedepression.
So a lot of those that money ishard to come by, I have to save
, I have to do all this.
So, releasing that programmingallow me to know that
financially, whether it's adivorce or a death of a parent,
that I'm okay.
(34:13):
Also, releasing that need tohave that person in my life
whether it is a divorce or aparent in my life, I also was
able to ground myself into whoam.
I trust myself, know myself insuch a way.
So, just using those twoexamples, beliefs and feelings
(34:34):
associated with finances,beliefs and feelings associated
with being alone or by myselfthose are things that were tied
into those grief situations.
So once I released what wasn'thelping me, those limiting
beliefs that prevented me frommoving forward, those beliefs
that were minimizing and notallowing me to be grounded in
(34:56):
who I was, then I was more ableto easily walk through those
grief situations, as well asmany that are.
As you mentioned, life is outhere.
I'm gonna say yes, I'm gonnastep into some other grief
situation going forward wherelife is full of those.
(35:16):
That's the way we learn, that'sthe way we grow from the
various different challenges inour life.
Releasing those triggers,identifying those patterns, have
helped me, have helped myclients be able to approach the
next challenge in their lifemuch differently than they have
in the past.
Greg Kuhn (35:35):
Why do ringing endorsement for healthily
processing grief, for havingrespect for grief, for being
intentional with grief,intentional as we approach it
and how we approach it?
It begs the question, I thinkwell, what happens when we don't
(35:59):
process grief?
Calling back to something thatwe touched upon earlier in this
conversation what are some ofthe biggest mistakes that a
griever can make?
Dr. Karen Kramer (36:18):
One of those is avoiding the grief cycle.
I'm fine, I'm fine,everything's fine.
I talk about this in my book.
So there's many differentstages and ways that we may and
reasons why we may avoid it.
I don't have time to grieve.
I even start off my book bytelling my own story about being
(36:40):
there where I thought I wasgoing through the grief process.
But I was approaching itlogically, distracting myself
with dealing with all thelogistics.
And then there was that one daywhere I just broke down, had it
.
It just fented all over myfamily, poor thing, and that
started that cycle of grief.
So back to your question aroundand state your question again,
(37:06):
because I realized I wasstarting to go off track on that
, state your question again.
Greg Kuhn (37:10):
Gladly, gladly at the heart.
What can happen to us when wedon't process grief, and then
what are some of the biggestmistakes that grievers make that
might find us in that position.
Dr. Karen Kramer (37:30):
Yes.
So thank you, Greg.
So thinking about grief asenergy, negative energy that's
in our body, that may be one wayto think about it.
So it could be, and I couldeven get into talking about the
emotions and range of emotionsthat come into.
But so just briefly, becausesome of the range of emotions
(37:52):
you've talked about, some ofthem sadness In some cases
people are shocked, they're numb, like just this event happened
and I'm not quite sure how torespond.
Anger is another common one andagain it depends upon the grief,
this resistance, or hittingrock bottom, going into on the
positive side, going intofinally accepting what that
(38:15):
grief is and also moving intothe healing.
What I just mentioned is partof a model that I have in my
book just to have anunderstanding about the various
different emotions that we mayhave, and we can flow back in
any of those different emotionsand all of the other.
I think there are 36 differentemotions that I talk about as
part of a flow of emotion.
(38:35):
But if we are stuck, let's say,for example, if there's sadness
or there is anger or there'shurt or there's fear, that is in
that grief that's there, thatis stuck, energy that can then
settle within our body.
And to give you an idea, I'lltalk about one of my clients
(38:55):
who's also a story in the book.
She also was the impetus for mestarting this book.
So she came to me because shehad just been diagnosed with
stage two colon cancer.
So I ended up doing a half daysworth of work with her to be
able to release the negativeemotions.
Yes, it can easily be done in ahalf day.
(39:17):
All I did was go through theprocess of releasing the
negative emotions.
Now she was very open with herstory, so it's also in my book.
So I'll talk about some of thedetails here which I normally
wouldn't with other clients.
Reason why she finally decidedto come to me was because her
doctor said to her you may havebeen diagnosed now, but this
(39:40):
cancer, this tumor, this cancerhas been growing in your body
for five years and she finallymade the connection.
Five years prior to that herhusband had passed away, had
committed suicide, so one ofthose things that she held onto
guilt.
And she even said why washolding onto this guilt?
(40:03):
Like it was a?
I needed to take it to my graveand I could feel it in the pit
of my stomach.
So verbalize where she said itwas and that she needed to hold
onto this guilt.
Then, when doing the work also,there was more that ended up
going back.
It wasn't just that event inher life, it went back into
(40:24):
something that happened when shewas six years old too.
So it's these what the rootcause can be anywhere along our
timeline.
But what happened?
By identifying that andreleasing it, it also helped to
release the energy associatedwith that tumor cancerous tumor
and where it was in her body.
(40:45):
So when I talk about this, I'mnot saying that I healed her.
What I did is I allowed her tobe able to process and release
that emotion, which then allowsher body to do what our body is
naturally designed to do is toheal itself.
Greg Kuhn (41:02):
Love that.
So it sounds very much DrKramer like unprocessed grief
can really muddle our efforts tomanifest and live our lives
more intentionally.
Dr. Karen Kramer (41:20):
Yes, back to what I said in the beginning is,
if we want to focus onmanifestation in our life, we
also have to have anunderstanding of the flip side,
which is loss being able toprocess through and losing
something.
Okay, that's part of it, to beable to let go and know that
that's going to be a cycle oflife before we can truly fully
(41:43):
step in to manifesting what wewant in our life.
Versus going towards what wewant in our life and then having
some kind of setback or hiccupin our life and then being stuck
in that energy, because thatstuck energy is going to prevent
us, just to kind of hold usback from fully stepping into
that manifestation in our life.
Greg Kuhn (42:06):
Interesting.
You know you're making me thinkof a quote that I remember
reading as a teenager andthinking why is this a quote?
Because it's so negative frommy teenage perspective.
And the quote is until we agreeto suffer, there will be no end
(42:30):
to the suffering.
As an adult now I understandthat what that quote is
referencing is, if I'm notwilling to look, you know, these
problematic parts of my life inthe eye, it's really really
(42:52):
difficult to move on from them.
And I'm curious, since we aregoing to want to process grief,
since we are going to want tolimit its impact, its negative
impact on our lives, the liveswe're manifesting, what are some
(43:19):
of your best tips forprocessing grief?
I mean, I don't want you tojust to give away the entire
book.
It's a great book andmanifestors intentional
manifestors you're going to wantto read it.
But while we have you here,what are some of your best tips?
Dr. Karen Kramer (43:37):
Yes, the core part of the book is based upon
the Healthy Grief Framework.
So grief, focusing on that word, g-r-i-e-f is the framework to
help process.
I intentionally made this bookeasy so that you can have
conversations with children tosomebody who's older.
(44:01):
So it's intended to be for thegriever as well as the supporter
and easy to remember.
You don't need the book who canremember it.
So G-R-I-E-F gather relate,involve ease and focus and
they're all focused on variousdifferent parts, even as you
(44:22):
think about the body and, again,it's easy to remember and easy
to process.
So gather is around the head.
What logical information do Ineed or do I have about what's
going on?
Are relate, relate to theemotion we may have, relate to
the emotion of others who arebeing affected by this grief.
(44:43):
I involve, involve in actionsteps, what steps, even minor
steps today and, by the way, allof these are questions to
engage in on a daily basis, toassess, and you may not have
answers to all of these on adaily basis, but it's kind of
like to say for those people whoget lost in grief is to have
(45:08):
the roadmap to say here's whereI am, here's the X about where I
am today.
So involve could be somethingas simple as I'm going to get
out of bed before noon, take ashower and get dressed today.
That could be a simple exampleabout involve taking an action
step.
The fourth one ease and, by theway, involve is around feet.
(45:31):
So taking action feet Ease iswith support, formal or informal
support.
I see that as the holding hands.
What support do I need today?
And by home, that could besomething as simple as a friend
or a neighbor bringing overgroceries or prepared food.
(45:51):
It could be something formallike having a lawyer or a doctor
or a therapist or somebody tohelp.
So it's all kind of ease withsupport.
And love is vision, it's thefocus.
What does the new, the future,look like?
(46:12):
The new normal look like?
I also think about the processthrough grief is like a book
itself, and what once was is nolonger like a death or divorce,
retirement, whatever it is.
That's almost like the close ofa chapter of our life.
What once was is no longer.
And so we're in that process,just before we start turning
(46:36):
over that next page to that newchapter of our life where we're
easing between letting go ofthat previous chapter of our
life that we've known for solong and are easing into that
new chapter of our life.
That is, then, with new values,new ways of doing things.
So, for example, like for a,this could happen with both a
(47:00):
divorce as well as a death inthe family.
What do holidays look like?
What's the new normal forholidays?
If we typically went tograndma's house and grandma
passed away, where are we goingto have those holidays?
Grandma usually made thatspecial apple pie.
Is somebody make that specialapple pie?
Are we going to have anothernew tradition that's going to
(47:23):
come about?
How are we going to handlepresence?
So, whatever that new normal isis like that new chapter of our
life, and that's what F focusis about.
So g, r, I, e, f.
So gather information, take tothe emotions, that's what we are
(47:45):
involved in.
Action steps, and they can besimple, okay, easy ones, bees
with support, formal or informal.
What do I need?
And F, what does the new normal, that next chapter, look like?
And a series of questions undereach of those just to gently
(48:05):
just reflect on for each day,yeah, and you know that new
normal right.
Greg Kuhn (48:17):
In many cases, maybe in almost every case, when we're
addressing something assignificant as grief, that's
probably a normal that I don'treally want, at least at first,
wholeheartedly.
I wouldn't have asked for it, Iwouldn't have selected it
(48:40):
myself, most likely.
And right along with that, I'veheard you refer to processing
grief as setting your heart free.
So help me join those twothings together.
(49:06):
If I'm setting my heart free,obviously that means my heart
was bound, and yet I'm settingit free into a new normal.
That certainly is painful.
You know, in a grief eventYou're speaking to this and
(49:34):
those steps that you just wentover for us, they can help me
bridge that divide.
Dr. Karen Kramer (49:42):
They can.
So you're getting me to thinkabout some of the stories that I
have in the book which areintended to be.
There are various differentways to process through grief.
There are various differentgrief situations that are out
there.
So it's intended to give hope,and it's also intended to
(50:03):
recognize there are variousdifferent paths to that next
chapter to free your heart.
As an example, and the eventhat, the grief path that I just
gave you was not intended to belinear.
You can only go through thisway.
It's just to give you aframework.
Okay, where are you today?
(50:24):
What does tomorrow look like?
It could be something as simpleas that, and so, after each of
the 30 stories, I then gothrough and identify each part
of the RIF framework to reallyhelp people understand.
For example, one of the storiesthat is in there is Erica Davis,
who, at the age of 24, ended upwith a rare disease that then
(50:50):
crippled her to the point whereshe became a paraplegic.
She was an athlete.
Even with her story as far backas three years old, she was an
athlete and, at 24 years old,ended up becoming a paraplegic.
Her story after that is abouther life did not end.
She didn't sit on the couch.
(51:11):
She didn't wallow.
Did she ever down days?
Yes, but she also turned itaround into okay, this is the
way it is Like medically.
She wasn't necessarily going toget her legs back.
That was in part of thisprocess that you're talking
about, greg, and even when Italk about the relates the
relating to your emotions andcoming out of it, acceptance is
(51:33):
part of that stage.
At what point am I acceptingthat this is just the way things
are?
I'm not going to get back mydead parent.
I'm not going to get back my ex.
I'm not going to get my legsback.
Okay, in Erica's situation,it's an accepting of what is,
and that really is part of thatgrief process, and that's also
(51:56):
how do you lead up to that point.
So, once you accept what thatis, that then helps you move
into that new normal.
Erica is the very firstparaplegic to summit Mount
Kilimanjaro.
Well, I don't know about you,but I've never been at Mount
Kilimanjaro.
There's many people around theworld who have never been at
Mount Kilimanjaro.
(52:17):
She's also been one of thenational champions and
Paralympics in multipledifferent I wouldn't even start
to name all of them jet skiing,canoeing, curling, biking all
these things that she has done.
She just had a I believe her42nd birthday, so all these
(52:41):
things that she has done whenshe is a paraplegic.
So, to answer your question, itis around.
When we get to the point andthis is all intended to get to
us to a point where we acceptwhat is that has occurred that
in our life we're not bargaining, we're trying to get our
(53:02):
partner back, we're not retiringand then thinking maybe we can
go back into the organizationand consult, just because we're
not ready to let go, or we'regrieving so much about an elder
that has passed, or and there's.
I'm only sticking with thosethree for the sake.
But there's multiple differentgriefs that are out there.
The more we can accept, themore we can then step into.
(53:23):
What is that new normal In mybook?
There's also individuals.
There's seven different typesof griefs that I talk about in
there from death and dying,intimate relationship related,
such as divorces.
Non intimate relatedrelationships, like my divisions
(53:44):
, and family estrangedrelationships.
Two maternity losses.
Two identity crisis fromshifting gears, from between
career related shifts and losingour identity in the process.
I'm missing one.
The very last chapter istrilogy, where you have multiple
(54:04):
different, complex, compoundgriefs that happen back to back,
and so all of those are to helpthe reader understand, as well
as to gain their own sense abouttheir own path they're going to
.
Some stories won't resonate withthem, other stories.
Whatever resonates is pick upon the ways in which they
process through.
(54:25):
What were the emotions thatthey dealt with, what were the
challenges that they faced?
What are those things that theythought?
What are those things theyovercame?
Two of the individualsspecifically are dealing with
health diagnosis.
It's not like, in some cases,this is their life.
How, then, do they processthrough, knowing that there's
(54:45):
only so much they can do to comeback to a completely whole and
healthy body?
Some can, some are in thesituation where this is my
reality right now, like kidneydialysis is one of them Waiting
for a kidney?
This is my life right now.
What can I do with what I havein my life right now without
getting stuck in that emotion ofwhy me?
(55:07):
Why is this happening to me?
Mad at God, mad at doctors, madat other people?
Right, because that's all stuck.
Energy is releasing that andsaying, okay, here's what the
cards I'm dealt with right now.
What's the next step?
What's the next step that'sgoing to get me to move towards
what I want in my life, versussitting back and wallowing and
(55:28):
taking me down in my life.
Greg Kuhn (55:33):
Powerful testimony.
Dr Kramer, we are unfortunatelystarting to bump up against
time here.
I have to say we could probablyhave 10 different podcasts
emerge from just this onediscussion.
I've had to reign myself innumerous times to honor time.
(55:55):
Actually, that's a great segue.
The last thing that I'd like toask you about I want to share
just a little bit.
First, I won't take too long,because I've done a lot of
searching before we had thisconversation about grief and my
(56:20):
experiences with it.
After I share just a little bit, I really want to make sure
that we get you to share with ussome of your best advice about
this really important topic forpeople moving forward.
(56:43):
I mentioned time.
For me, one of the reasons thatgrief is so pervasive is that
we can actually re-experience it.
Time is a very effectiveillusion.
I don't think it comes as asurprise to anyone listening to
(57:06):
this that we know that reallyeverything is all happening at
once.
We're just experiencing it inthis logical, linear unfolding.
Because everything's happeningat once, we are readily able to
energetically connect withfuture versions of ourselves.
(57:26):
We can connect with futureversions of ourselves in parts
of our future life where we areexperiencing grief events, those
losses that we know are coming,including our own.
That's not even mentioning ourability to energetically connect
(57:50):
with our past selves andexperiencing previous grief
events right now through thatenergetic connection, just like
we can do with our future selves.
Of course, we also experiencegrief in the present moment too,
(58:12):
and, based on our conversation,I know that's where we can
process grief healthily.
I just want to share this, andthen I want to ask you for your
best advice.
One of my takeaways as I'veprepared for our conversation is
(58:35):
that the people in my life, thepeople that I love and the
people that populate my life,they're always going to exist in
one form, as an idea in my mind.
In that way, the people whoaren't around me physically
(58:59):
right now, as ideas in my mind.
They're as real as someone thatI'm looking at in that way.
That's a very powerful way, aswe know.
In fact, all of this past,present and future exists as an
idea in my mind.
(59:20):
What I was led to followingthis line of thinking is that
the people, the places, thethings that are here with me
right now well, right now is mytime to be with them as more
(59:49):
than just an idea, and eachmoment offers me a strings-free
opportunity to take fulladvantage of my current access
to those people.
Well, you know what Griefbrings me.
(01:00:10):
That Grief provides me thatperspective.
Grief opens the door for me toexplore such concepts, which I
find incredibly enriching.
You have made so much more of astudy of this, of course.
So we've got to know, we've gotto ask you.
(01:00:35):
My audience is full of peoplewho I would say they know what
they're doing, and yet we knowthat life is full of hard to
reach areas.
We know that our knowledge ofwhat's possible for us,
especially in the most importantparts of our lives, is always
(01:00:58):
growing, always expanding.
We're going to have griefevents.
They're going to touch us,they're going to have deep
impact in our life and manypeople listening right now might
be experiencing that in thismoment.
What is your best advice?
Not only to be well-preparedfor grief when the inevitable
(01:01:23):
events arrive.
What's your best advice to letgo of past grief that we might
be carrying?
And how about somebody who'sexperiencing grief right now?
And I know that you couldprobably talk about this is such
a big question, but if you werein an elevator with somebody
(01:01:44):
now, don't spend more than 20seconds, please.
But how can someone unlocktheir unique path to healing,
while grief is an ever-presentpart of their life.
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:02:04):
The first thoughts that come to mind, greg
because I could go up in somany different directions, given
the wonderful setup iscompassion and curiosity.
Compassion for yourself andcuriosity for what is happening
in and around you.
There's a phrase that I love touse, and it's for what purpose?
(01:02:26):
For what purpose is thishappening for me?
Now?
It's a different question thanwhy.
Why is this happening to me?
Why am I always getting this?
Why is this happening to me?
Turn it around.
Why any voice Is.
For what purpose am I beingdiagnosed with this?
(01:02:46):
For what purpose is this bossshowing up in my life and I'm
feeling this way about this?
For what purpose am I thinkingand feeling this as I'm sitting
with an elderly parent who's inthe process of passing?
For what purpose am I thinkingand feeling this way?
(01:03:11):
Negative thoughts and feelingsabout retiring, when other
people are telling me that Ishould be happy about this?
Just using those examples forwhat purpose?
Gives us an opportunity to becurious about our thoughts, our
feelings and our reactions, withcompassion for ourselves.
(01:03:34):
Compassion for the events andpeople and situations in our
life, because they are allhappening for us, which gives a
window into why that may behappening for us now, because
many of the things that may behappening for us even if it is a
grief, how we're responding tothat grief or how it's
(01:03:56):
manifesting in our body, canactually be much more than the
experiences that have occurredin our current lifetime.
They could be physical ailments, beliefs and things that could
be carried from past generationsto past lifetimes that we have
had, and again, we can go off onthat topic.
(01:04:17):
I know that we can, but I'vealso experienced that with
clients.
Again, it may be beliefs orissues or responses to grief
that have nothing to do with ourcurrent lifetime, and the more
that we can just approach itfrom a place of compassion and
curiosity for what purpose itcould help us unravel the
(01:04:40):
mystery of that for us.
Greg Kuhn (01:04:42):
I love that actionable takeaway.
That's a phrase that I'm goingto carry into many situations,
not just grief, events for whatpurpose I love that.
And compassion and curiosity.
(01:05:03):
We're never going to be sorryto employ those things.
Those are perspectives andapproaches that don't let us
down, do they?
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:05:14):
Correct, correct.
They're just a window tounderstand ourselves in this
lifetime of opportunities toexplore the wonders of life,
which include the losses andgriefs as well.
Greg Kuhn (01:05:29):
Well said, well said, and I'm a gamer.
I can't thank you enough fornot only your time, but your
full presence here and the waythat you gave us everything that
you had.
I know that we have made goodon our intent to create
(01:05:52):
something of tremendous valuehere, and, before we do any sort
of wrapping up, I want to takethis opportunity to share with
everyone listening two thingsprimarily.
One we're going to make surethat we have all the links to Dr
(01:06:12):
Karen Kramer in the descriptionof this episode, whether you're
watching on YouTube or you'relistening on your favorite
podcasting platform.
So go there to follow up andmake sure that we can continue
conversations like thisimpactful, powerful
(01:06:33):
conversations about manifestingour lives more intentionally by
joining my Facebook group that'scalled Manifest the Big Stuff
with Greg Kuhn, creating ourrealities together.
The link to that is also in thedescription.
(01:06:53):
There, you're going to findcontent from me that's exclusive
to that group, availablenowhere else, and it's a lot of
fun to foster those ongoingrelationships.
I'm an active member of thatcommunity and I would love to
see anybody and everybody there,so please take advantage of
(01:07:19):
that invitation and thatopportunity.
Wow, dr Kramer, there's nothingmore valuable than our time,
and that definitely ties intotoday's topic, doesn't it?
You shared it with us.
Our listeners are sharing itwith the two of us right now.
(01:07:40):
I'm very appreciative to youand to them, the beautiful souls
that have made this hourtogether so powerful and
impactful.
Thank you so much for your time.
Dr. Karen Kramer (01:07:58):
Thank you, greg, and the listeners.
Greg Kuhn (01:08:03):
Yes, absolutely.
I look forward to continuing tolearn from your journey,
because I know the openness andthe intent that you bring to
what you share and, wow, we'llbe happy to be a part of that
(01:08:24):
moving forward, and I think thatyou have successfully
introduced many, many people toa new avenue of resources
through your site and your booksand your coaching.
So that wraps up this powerfulepisode of Manifest, the Big
(01:08:47):
Stuff.
Until we get a chance to meetagain, my friends, keep
believing, keep manifesting,keep making the most of your
time.
I will do likewise.
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