February 4, 2025 • 50 mins
This episode explores the vital need for a value change rooted in indigenous perspectives, particularly the teachings of the Haudenosaunee. Listeners are invited to reflect on how our current monetary-driven worldview is unsustainable and how adopting a more relational and respectful way of interacting with the Earth can pave the way for a more sustainable future.
Themes
• Discussion of the urgency of changing our economic values
• Insights from the Haudenosaunee about the interconnectedness of life
• Historical context of the "Basic Call to Consciousness"
• Exploration of leadership through indigenous philosophies
• Introduction of the Rights of Nature movement
• Presentation of the Universal Declaration of the Rights of Mother Earth
• Importance of decolonizing narratives and changing perspectives
• Emphasis on our responsibility and connection to the Earth
• Reflection on the positive potential in adopting indigenous values
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View the transcript and show notes at podcast.doctrineofdiscovery.org. Learn more about the Doctrine of Discovery on our site DoctrineofDiscovery.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colon (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Mapping the
Doctrine of Discovery podcast.
The producers of this podcastwould like to acknowledge with
respect the Onondaga Nationfirekeepers of the Haudenosaunee
, the indigenous peoples onwhose ancestral lands Syracuse
University now stands.
And now a special video episodewith Phil.
Philip P. Arnold (00:31):
So, value change for survival.
What does that mean?
It means we have to change theway we value the world
completely in economic, monetaryterms.
It implies that our survival,that our survival, is at stake
in this value change.
(00:52):
And one of the things that isconsistently mentioned by the
Haudenosaunee is that the earthand I've mentioned this to you
before but the earth will befine without us.
The earth doesn't need us.
The earth will be better offwithout human beings on it,
right?
So we have to get out of theframework that we're going to
(01:15):
save the planet.
Okay, we're not.
The planet has to save us fromourselves.
That's the indigenous values,the indigenous perspectives.
Speaking, the modern valuesystem of everything being
(01:38):
connected to the bottom line isclearly unsustainable.
Now, the weight of all thisseems overwhelming, seems like
how are we going to change themonetary system?
It's what and you know I'vesaid this numerous times to many
, many students I hope you allget great jobs coming out of SU,
(02:01):
that you make money, but thatcan't be the only thing that
you're concerned about, right?
And it seems like the change ofvalues of the modern world
could be really overwhelming.
But it's really just a changeof perspective and that's what
(02:22):
we've been discussing in theclass.
So this book, this book basiccall to consciousness, discusses
a trip that various indigenouspeoples from the United States,
(02:42):
from all around the UnitedStates, took to the UN, united
Nations in Geneva, switzerland,in 1977.
So what, 47 years ago?
And this delegation includedCrow people from Montana area,
(03:03):
the Hopi from the Southwest, theHaudenosaunee, so they were
from all over.
These are very traditionalleaders and the Haudenosaunee
delegation traveled on their ownpaths, as we talked about
before.
They delivered this diremessage, called the basic call
to consciousness, to the Westernworld that we don't have much
(03:26):
time left.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That was almost 50 years ago.
Philip P. Arnold (03:31):
Okay, they said to the assembled uh nations
, states from around the worldthe ice is melting in the north
that that was their message.
It's been their messageconsistently for the last 50
years.
So I want to go into it alittle bit.
(03:52):
These quotes appear in theepilogue of my book and I'll
just read from that.
So this is page 223.
All right.
So in the beginning we were toldthat the human beings who walk
about the earth have beenprovided with all the things
necessary for life.
(04:12):
We were instructed to carry alove for one another and to show
a great respect for all thebeings of this earth.
We are shown that our lifeexists with the tree of life,
that our well-being depends onthe well-being of the vegetable
life, that we are closerelatives of the four-legged
(04:33):
beings In our race.
Spiritual consciousness is thehighest form of politics.
So this spiritual understandingthat Jake Edwards so eloquently
put in his discussion onTuesday is a form of politics,
is a form of leadership, of theorganization of human beings
(04:58):
into a polity.
They go on to say ours is a wayof life.
We believe that all livingthings are spiritual beings.
Spirits can be expressed asenergy forms manifested in
matter.
A blade of grass is an energyform manifested into matter.
(05:20):
Grass, matter, the spirit ofthe grass is that unseen force
that produces the species ofgrass, and it is manifest to us
in the form of real grass.
So using grass, just the mostbasic kind of living force there
(05:52):
is, we can appreciate how allof life is considered sacred,
because all of life thenparticipates in what they call
the tree of life.
So in the language of thehistory of religions that I was
trained in, this is an exampleof the manifestation of the
sacred, a hierophany.
We talked about that earlier inthe semester.
So a hierophany, manifestationof the sacred, but not in some
(06:13):
kind of big like God revealsthemselves in a burning bush,
we'll say.
Like in the Old Testament orthe Torah, god reveals himself
to Moses.
This is an everyday kind ofmanifestation of the sacred.
That is what human beings areresponsible for.
(06:37):
So when the guy in that littleclip from Buy Now says how are
we going to reconcile being inthese corporate entities as
human beings I think that's whathe's going for there how are we
going to reconcile?
How are you going to reconcilefitting in the bottom line in
(07:00):
your job, making money, withbeing human right and depending
on other living beings for yourhumanity?
All right, so these are longquotes, you don't have to write
them down and they're also inthe book, so in another section
called the Importance ofCreation.
(07:21):
So we're talking about creationnot as a kind of moment in the
history of the world, not at thebeginning of things only, but
as a kind of ongoing reality.
Okay, so for the Haudenosaunee,all things of the world are
real, material things.
The creation is a true materialphenomenon, and the creation
(07:46):
manifests itself to us throughreality.
So it's not just about thecreation story, it's about what
the creation story points us to,how it imparts those values or
relationships.
The spiritual universe, then,is manifest to man as the
creation, the creation thatsupports life.
(08:08):
We believe that man is real, apart of the creation, a part of
the creation, and that his dutyis to support life in
conjunction with other beings.
That is why we call ourselvesOngwe Hongwe, or real people,
the real people, right, becausethey're real human beings of
(08:32):
creation.
Okay, so you'll notice that inthis cosmology, in this
worldview, there are no things,no objects.
Okay, In.
English, it's almost impossibleto talk without things.
In our language, consumerism isall about things and the
(08:56):
commodification of things.
Okay, but there is a livingworld that surrounds us.
The Haudenosaunee know thisbecause they are alive, they are
human, they are real people.
They're ongwe hongwe, right?
So creation, then, is somethingthat is constantly unfolding
(09:18):
every day.
That's what Jake was sayingwhen he said that's why we give
the Thanksgiving address everymorning.
It's not about prayer, it's notabout asking for anything, it's
about being human, it's aboutbeing in proper relationship
with the material world.
So how does this modern selfcontrast with the indigenous
(09:45):
self?
A consumerist self?
Capital S-E-L-F is the wholepoint of consumerism, right?
All goods flow towards me.
As a consumer, I'm the centerof the world.
For the indigenous self, theentirety of creation is involved
(10:08):
in one's self, which is a kindof biological fact.
We are in relationship to theworld around us, where
indigenous peoples understandthat they are materially slash,
(10:29):
spiritually connected to theentirety of creation, as they
say in this book Basic Cult ofConsciousness.
Our roots are deep in the landswhere we live.
In the lands where we live, wehave a great love for our
(10:50):
country, for our birthplace isthere.
The soil is rich from the bonesof thousands of our generations
, okay, from the ancestors.
Right, we are descendants fromthose people we don't even know,
have never met.
And yet they're the reasonwe're here and we talked about
(11:10):
this.
Each of us was created in thoselands and it is our duty to
take great care of them, becausefrom these lands will spring
the future generations of theOngwa Hongwa, as they say, the
seven generations.
Right, jake was talking aboutseven generations.
(11:31):
They're looking up at us fromthe ground.
Their faces are in the soil wewalk about with great respect,
for the earth is a very sacredplace.
So, in the modern self, I'msitting here in my house, which
is a very nice house.
I love my house, but it's mine.
(11:53):
So the land, in this modernevaluation, belongs to me, the
house belongs to me, but reallythe house is over 50 years old,
almost 60 years old.
I didn't create it, I'm not incharge of it, I'm kind of just a
(12:15):
caretaker for my house.
Someone else is going to occupythis place later.
So consumerism, property givesus a kind of an illusion that
it's ours.
But what does that mean?
But the indigenous self statesvery clearly that we belong to
(12:38):
the land and not the other wayaround.
The land does not belong to usreally.
In fact it doesn't.
We belong to the land, and youknow an illustration of that.
Some of you might be Irish,irish-american.
I've got some Irish ancestry.
(12:58):
So we had the opportunity to goback to Ireland.
I think I've talked to youabout this already, but going
back to Ireland was quite anamazing experience.
We went to Galway and Dublin,and in Galway there's a very
strong strong relationship tothe language.
(13:21):
The language is coming back andwith it comes a very strong
relationship to the language.
A language is coming back andwith it comes a very strong
relationship to the land.
So Irish political bodies havebeen very active in this front.
For example and I mentioned thisin the last class that when
they build a highway, let's say,from Dublin to Cork or
(13:44):
someplace right.
When they build a highway, theywill take into mind some of the
sacred places along the way,and someone was just telling me
about them building.
A friend of mine, at themeeting in San Diego we went to
over the holiday, he was tellingme that they built a highway.
(14:06):
You know, four-lane highway,modern, super modern highway.
But they built it around whatthey call the fairy tree,
because that's where the littlepeople of the land come together
and historically you know thatis an important site for not
(14:28):
only the little people of landbut also the human beings and
their relationship to it.
So Ireland, I think, isexperiencing a new kind of
indigenous value.
It's also one of the richestcountries in Europe right now,
at this time.
(14:49):
So think about that how you canbridge a monetary, modern self
with a gift economy, indigenousself Responsibility.
We are not a people who demandor ask anything of creation of
the creators of life, that's,all of the creators of life.
(15:12):
Instead, we give greetings andthanksgivings that all the
forces of life are still at workTo this day.
The territories we still holdare filled with trees, animals
and other gifts of creation.
In these places we stillreceive our nourishment from our
(15:35):
mother earth.
So it's not like they're noteating animals or eating the
berries or tapping the mapletree.
Right, they're consuming all ofthose things.
But what do you do in exchange?
We don't think in those terms.
When we go into Wegmans, we'renot thinking in terms of like,
(15:59):
well, where does this come from?
How was it harvested?
What does it mean?
Right, so taking somethingrequires an exchange, a gift, if
not there, if not there aredire consequences.
Right, that's the thanksgivingaddress.
(16:20):
So then they get into what, inreligious studies, we call
liberation theology.
Right, liberation theology is abig category in the history of
Catholic theology.
It's not often taught, and whatthey're doing in this book
(16:43):
Basic Call to Consciousness ischanging the attitude.
The reference points for whatliberation means it's the
liberation not just of humanbeings, but of all living beings
living on this planet need tobreak with the narrow concept of
(17:08):
human liberation and begin tosee liberation as something that
needs to be expanded orextended to the whole of the
natural world.
What is needed is theliberation of all the things
that support life the air, thewaters, the trees, all things
that support the sacred web oflife.
So human beings are really notthe center of the world.
(17:30):
Physically speaking,biologically speaking, we're
dependent on the world thatsurrounds us and we need to
focus on liberating thoseelements of the living world
upon which we depend.
So I want to think of this interms of slavery.
(17:54):
The stain of American history isslavery.
You could say the sin ofAmerican history is slavery.
What is slavery?
It's discussed asdehumanization of human beings.
Right, there is such a thingtoday as modern day slavery,
(18:17):
sexual slavery, right, all kindsof different elements of
slavery.
But really slavery just comesdown to the commodification, the
reduction of human beings tomonetary value.
They're for sale and they areconsumables.
(18:41):
Slaves are reduced, they takethem from their human form and
put them into a monetary form.
That's the history of slavery.
That's what it is.
Now there's a difference.
There's all kinds of slavery.
(19:01):
I'll say there's all kinds ofslavery, I'll say, because
indigenous people of Africa wereenslaved in the transatlantic
trade, and that's chattelslavery, because they were
enslaved for not just themselvesbut all their generations.
(19:22):
That's where the one drop rulecomes into play.
Right, they're enslaved alltheir generations.
So that's chattel slavery.
That's, that's the mostdehumanizing type of all.
My folks came over asindentured servants, as a kind
of slavery that you could buyoff with, you know, working for
(19:46):
one year, two years, three yearsin the fields, and then you are
free.
Okay, at some point the firstarnold is called a freeman.
Okay, and that's what thatrefers to.
What they're doing in this book,basically called consciousness,
is that saying?
They're saying that slavery orenslavement happens when any
(20:11):
living being is reduced to theirmonetary value, their use value
, their exchange value, right?
So you go into Wegmans.
The idea is that what we'reexperiencing is enslavement of
all of those elements of theliving world, of living creation
(20:33):
, right?
So the question is how do wereconcile the enslavement of all
living beings, not just humanbeings, but all living beings in
a way that ensures our survival?
Because that's what we're inthe bottom line, that's what
we're talking about.
(20:53):
Then they talk about leadership,which is very interesting
because it's like nothing in ourworld today, given our recent
experience with the election.
Because, as I said, it'sobvious to me that we are in a
(21:16):
kind of crisis mode right nowand it's being reflected in our
choice of leaders.
Our choice of leaders have tolook like strong men, look like
(21:38):
strongmen, have to look likeintolerant of diversity and
elements of what theHaudenosaunee are talking about.
It's just, it's obvious, andthere's a certain kind of
religious force that is sweepingthem into power.
According to the book, inaccordance with our ways, we are
required to hold many kinds offeasts and ceremonies, that is,
leaders are required to holdmany kinds of feasts and
(21:58):
ceremonies that can best bedescribed as giveaways.
In the Northwest native people,like you know Kwakutl and
others, hidatsa, they hadelaborate forms of giveaways
that they called potlatch.
But this is true for many, ifnot all, indigenous peoples.
(22:24):
It is said that among our people, our leaders, those whom the
Anglo people insist on callingchiefs the real word for the
leader is loyani, men of thegood mind or women of the good
mind are the poorest of us.
They have the least becausethey give it all away by the
(22:47):
laws of our culture.
Our leaders are both politicaland spiritual leaders.
They are leaders of manyceremonies that require the
distribution of great wealth.
As spiritual and politicalleaders, they provide a kind of
economic conduit thedistribution, redistribution of
(23:11):
the stuff of life.
To become a political leader, aperson is required to be a
spiritual leader, and to becomea spiritual leader, a person
must be extraordinarily generousin terms of material goods.
So leadership in among theHaudenosaunee means, on the one
(23:33):
hand, they're very tough,tough-minded, but also very
humble.
They're serving the people andthey're generous.
They're generous with theirtime, they're generous with all
their worldly possessions.
Okay, they're generous with alltheir worldly possessions.
(23:54):
This is diametrically opposedto modern ideas of strong
leadership.
Strong leadership essentiallyif I'm to guess, over the next
(24:20):
four years strong leadershipmeans being extraordinarily
selfish, extraordinarily focusedon one's own personal gain, and
this comes with a kind ofmonetary value system.
Look out, because it's going toget really bad, I predict, in
the next few years.
It's going to get really bad, Ipredict, in the next few years.
So I wanted to include thatidea of leadership as well.
All right, so now moving tovalue change for survival.
(24:44):
So value change for survival isthe title of the epilogue of
this final chapter.
Is the title of the epilogue ofthis final chapter, but it's
actually a report that was givenat the United Nations in 1991.
So, celebrating its 40th yearin 1995,.
(25:05):
Remember, the United Nations wasestablished in 1945,
immediately after the SecondWorld War.
So in 1985, the United Nationsestablished the global forum of
spiritual and parliamentaryleaders, in other words,
spiritual leaders and politicalleaders coming together to
(25:27):
discuss human survival.
So this international group ofabout I don't know.
I've seen a picture of thisgroup at Oxford.
There's probably maybe like 500people in this group.
It's huge.
The Dalai Lama, mother Teresa,archbishop of Canterbury at the
(25:49):
time, senator Al Gore, before hewas vice president, president
Mikhail Gorbachev, who's passedaway, and that's just to name a
few.
And they met for six years inNew York, moscow, oxford and
Tokyo.
Representing Native America wasOren Lyons, joe Aguisho, faith
(26:12):
keeper of the Turtle Clan of theOnondaga Nation.
At the forum's final meeting inTokyo, the group was called
upon to summarize their work bythe executive coordinator, akio
Matsumura.
All agreed.
The work could be distilledinto four words value change for
survival.
Now Oren speaks about valuechange for survival regularly,
(26:39):
and what I'm submitting to youis that the values that we have
to aspire to should beindigenous ones, because
indigenous peoples have beenorganizing themselves around
their various language, withtheir various languages, around
(27:01):
their lands for millennia, andit's something that we should
really pay attention, to, listento and think about.
Do you need help catching up ontoday's topic?
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colo (27:11):
really pay attention to, listen to and
think about.
Do you need help catching up ontoday's topic or do you want to
learn more about the resourcesmentioned?
If so, please check our websiteat
podcastdoctrineofdiscoveryorgfor more information and, if you
like this episode, review it onApple, spotify or wherever you
listen to podcasts.
And now back to theconversation.
Philip P. Arnold (27:34):
So I might have played this for you before,
but I want to play it again inthis context of it's a YouTube
called Value Change for Survival.
It's part of the WampumChronicles.
It's a discussion with Oren,probably 15 years ago now maybe
10, at Onondaga Lake, where theGreat Law of Peace was founded
(27:58):
thousands of years ago.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
We begin this conversation with a historical
perspective and also with theunderstanding of where we are in
these contemporary times.
We're in a very, very serioussituation and we're sending out
an alarm.
We're sending out an alert.
(28:27):
We were told that when thisbegins to deteriorate, there's
going to be certain, certainsignals that will alert you to
the degradation, and the firstone was the acceleration of the
winds.
(28:48):
They said watch the winds, andthe winds start to accelerate.
You're in a downgrade.
And they said and how peopletreat their children, watch how
people treat their children whenthey're abused and misused the
children.
You're in the downgrade.
You're in the downgrade.
(29:13):
We're gonna have to go far tosee.
So, 7 billion people, soon to beeight, soon to be nine, and
we're caught in nature's law ofcompound.
1950, 2.5 billion people in theworld.
(29:34):
That's 64 years ago.
And today, 64 years later, wehave 7 billion people.
That's a problem, that's acompound action that you're not
controlling.
And so we've created what theycall a global warming situation,
(29:58):
where carbon has got into theair to such an extent now that
it's impacted the very systemthat supports this whole
planetary system.
You've been impacted the system.
Now what's the result of thatcarbon?
What is the result of thatToxic gases that we were
(30:20):
releasing.
It was that it too iscompounded and so it's causing
the ice to melt and the ice ismelting very fast.
Causing the ice to melt and theice is melting very fast.
There was a great writer, namewas Hemingway, and he wrote a
story about the snows ofKilimanjaro, and it's not there
(30:43):
anymore, it's gone.
We always think that that wouldconcern people.
We would think that they wouldbe concerned that the ice is
melting so fast.
The waters are rising and we'reexperiencing really change,
(31:06):
severe change.
You're not going to fix that.
There's no screwdriver, there'sno wrench, there's no
instruments going to fix that.
It's only the conduct of thepeople, working with nature and
its own laws that will bringthat back into any kind of a
(31:28):
peaceful, comprehensive way oflife.
2000, year 2000,.
We were invited to UnitedNations, our great gathering of
religious spiritual leaders, andthey asked us to make a message
.
And so we made that message,and that message was the ice is
(31:49):
melting.
Which was the ice is melting.
And no matter how profound yourdeclarations are and no matter
how mind bending, influentialthose statements are, the ice is
(32:11):
melting.
It's not listening to yourwords, it's not listening to
your ego, it's not listening toyour ideas.
It's simply melting Becausethat's the law, that's nature's
law, and so nature's willprevail.
When the peacemaker planted thatgreat tree of peace here, very
(32:31):
symbolic tree that he planted,and he said this tree is going
to reach to the sky and everyonecan see it, this great tree of
peace based on the spirituallaws, spiritual laws of creation
.
And he said to our leaders andall the people he said never
(32:55):
challenge those laws because youwill not prevail.
That's good instruction, butsomething that we don't listen
to and something that we haven'tdone.
So we've challenged those lawsright up to right now and we
seem to be hell-bent.
I guess, if you want to go inthat direction, there will be
(33:18):
plenty hell-bent from theconsequence of what we're doing
now.
And as global warming advances,when heat comes and rain comes,
it will be wetter.
Here it's going to get muchwetter than it is.
You'll have a hard time gettingyour plant in the ground in the
(33:38):
spring because it will be toomuch rain and then it will dry
out at the end of the year whenyou're looking for rain and then
, when it's dry, it's going toget drier.
Right now, california, there'sno more crisis.
And when you're a water level,can you imagine?
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colon (34:00):
Well, it's hard to imagine.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Here is the most brilliant, as they tell us
technologically smart people inthe world, running out of water
and being surprised by it.
Yeah, I don't know whathappened.
It's pretty late in the day.
This goes Beetles, nature.
(34:25):
You can't negotiate with abeetle.
You might not listen to him.
He's not gonna eat your trees.
It's all intended.
Everything was in balance.
(34:47):
At one time, the beetle couldeat the tree, the tree would
survive.
But now, with things gettingwarmer, the beetle has two life
cycles.
The second life cycle will killthat tree in one year.
And that's what he's doing.
(35:07):
He's chewing his way right upto West Coast, all the way to
Alaska.
He's cutting trees.
He's over here, just comingover here.
He's been chewing these treesdown.
Why do you negotiate with abeetle?
Why you don't?
(35:27):
You can.
He's got a different leader.
He's got a different leader.
He listens to a differentleader Nature.
It's what Peacemaker said Don'tchallenge those laws because you
can't prevail.
(35:47):
And so common sense and themessage that we're sending you
right now, the message we'retalking to you about, what we're
saying is listen.
Listen.
We're older people, and that'swhere indigenous people have
something to add to thisdiscussion, because they talk
about language, thinking, theytalk about seven generations.
(36:10):
They talk about responsibilityto the future.
No discussion about gold orsilver or money.
Discussion about protectingwater, protecting life.
That's what this discussion isabout.
Now we don't have a lot of timeand so this message that we're
(36:36):
sending, this message that we'resending right now is a message
of common sense.
It's just common sense to dowhat's right to share.
The message is to share themessages to share, share equally
everything.
And then the prophecies that wehave, that we've been told.
(37:00):
We're careful with thoseprophecies because they're not
good.
They're not good.
There is hope in that prophecywhen you, actually, when the
peacemaker said it's up to you.
When the peacemaker finishedthis great work here, a woman
(37:27):
asked him.
She said well, now that you'vedone all this, how long is it
going to last?
He said that's up to you.
So everything is in our hands,it's up to us.
There's no lightning coming, nosavior coming, no, nothing
coming.
We're only alone.
Philip P. Arnold (37:50):
One way or the other, we're awake me alone.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
One way or the other and I wait.
So when the time is on, I wouldsay now over, start over now.
I think we're at a good time.
It's a good time to be here.
It's a good time to be here.
It's a good time.
Let's see what you're made of,see how strong you are.
(38:20):
Value change for survival,change your values.
I don't know how cringy this is.
What are they doing here?
What's up?
Philip P. Arnold (38:39):
with that.
So, as I said, that's Orentalking about value change for
survival and I think in the endthere he was really pointing us
in a direction If it's not asolution, at least it's kind of
a way through that we need topay attention to what really
(39:01):
matters protecting water,protecting life.
So, as you move into your jobsand I hope, like I said, I hope
that you all get great jobs, butyou're going to be working for
corporations that have differentpriorities.
Some of them will be prioritiesthat align with, kind of the
(39:26):
future survival of the world.
Others who are indifferent tothat, that the bottom line is
the only thing that matters.
So how do we move ahead in away where we have a viable
future?
Because consumerism and I wantyou to think about this,
(39:46):
consumerism is built completelyon a fabrication right.
Consumerism is built completelyon a fabrication right, a
fabrication of values.
We talked about how themonetary economy is completely
an act of faith.
So it is easily changed, easilymanipulated.
It has no intrinsic value inand of itself, and yet that's
(40:11):
what we're all chasing.
I include myself in it.
It's what we're all chasing isthe almighty dollar.
So how do we?
I think first step is torealize that this is all just a
complete mythic, or a fictionwe'll say a fiction Creation
(40:32):
that came out of somebody's mind.
It's not real, but it is kindof, so we have to pay attention
to it and it's determining howwe are going to be able to
survive into the future.
So there's another movementafoot.
(40:55):
There are different kinds ofsolutions that are coming up,
alternatives to this way ofthinking.
Some people, for example in thefilm by now there are people
who are doing a kind of wastemanagement practice.
They're recycling goods,they're digging through trash,
(41:19):
and this includes people inother countries where we ship
our iPhones or old tablets orwhatever.
Right that we no longer useMillions of these a day and so
they're focused on, you know,sort of the end process.
One of the things that comes upin the film is that corporations
(41:44):
really need to figure out howthings can last longer and how
things can enter the waste cyclemore responsibly.
There's another movement goingon.
It has been for almost 15 yearsnow called Rights of Nature.
So the Rights of Naturemovements, for example, legally
(42:09):
imbues, lakes like Lake Erie,for example, or rivers, or
mountains, or trees, you know,old growth, forests with rights
that they can, that they have aright to exist, right.
So this is lawyers, lawyersworking, environmental lawyers
(42:31):
working through the legal systemin various ways.
I'll give you an example ofthat later.
Then also, um um winona leduc,I think uh, in in this epilogue
she she's a anashinabe womanactivist but also a
Harvard-trained economist, andshe talks about how, when we
(42:57):
create our mega projects,development projects for strip
mines or whatever oil pipelines,those kinds of things we only
think in terms of itsprofitability, right, its
monetary value.
That's how corporations think.
But if we can think more longterm seven generations thinking
(43:22):
and think of a triple bottomline, something that she didn't
create, but it's now taught inWhitman, for example now taught
in Whitman, for example, a lotof business schools that we have
to also think in terms of itsenvironmental costs as well as
its spiritual costs, sort of ouryou know the costs to our
(43:47):
treasured environments, right?
So thinking in terms of thetriple bottom line when working
on these projects.
Anyway, there's a film calledthe Invisible Hand that kind of
illustrates many of thesemovements that are going on
(44:08):
right now.
So in 2010,.
Also in 2010, there was anindigenous president of Bolivia,
ivo Morales, who created thechanges in the constitution of
(44:29):
Bolivia, which I think have beenrescinded since then because
there was a sort of hostiletakeover of Bolivia by corporate
interests, because Bolivia isknown to have a lot of lithium
and so that's going to be veryimportant for our batteries,
ironically, in sustainablevehicles or electric vehicles
(44:51):
and that sort of thing.
But anyway, at this time theycame up with an inspiring
statement that we can imbue theearth.
We can take this indigenousperspective and really focus on
how important the earth is as aliving being.
It says we, the peoples ofnations of Earth, considering
(45:14):
that we are all part of MotherEarth and an indivisible living
community of interrelated andinterdependent beings with a
common destiny, gratefullyacknowledging that Mother Earth
is the source of life,nourishment and and provides
everything we need to live well,recognizing that the capitalist
(45:35):
system and all forms ofdepredation, exploitation, abuse
and contamination have causedgreat destruction, degradation
and disruption of Mother Earth.
Putting life as we know ittoday at risk through phenomena
such as climate change.
Putting life as we know ittoday at risk through phenomena
such as climate change.
Convinced that in aninterdependent living community,
(45:56):
it is not possible to recognizethe rights of only human beings
without causing an imbalancewithin Mother Earth.
Affirming that to guaranteehuman rights, it is necessary to
recognize and defend the rightsof Mother Earth and all beings
in her, and that there areexisting cultures, practices and
laws that do so.
(46:18):
Conscious of the urgency oftaking care of decisive
collective action to transformstructures and systems that
cause climate change and otherthreats to Mother Earth,
proclaim this universaldeclaration of the rights of
Mother Earth and call on theGeneral Assembly of the United
(46:39):
Nations to adopt it as a commonstandard of achievement for all
peoples and nations of the world.
And, to the end, that everyindividual and institution takes
responsibility for promoting,through teaching, education and
consciousness-raising, respectfor the rights recognized in
(47:00):
this Declaration and ensure,through prompt and progressive
measures and mechanisms,national and international,
their universal and effectiverecognition and observance among
all peoples and states of theworld.
So that was their UniversalDeclaration of the Rights of
Mother Earth.
That was done by Armara peopleof Bolivia.
(47:22):
So these are ancient peopleswith indigenous values of their
own who saw that there had to bea reckoning right.
And so all over the world thereare these efforts that are
trying to push back against bigmoney interests, extractive
economic interests that we readabout in the Economic Hitman
(47:47):
that we've inhabited throughoutthe Industrial Revolution, into
the shopping season.
One of the ways that we'retrying to change values is to
change the story of America.
At the Scano Center I've gonethrough this in some detail but
(48:08):
I'll just put it here at the endbecause I included in the
epilogue that we're decolonizingthe narrative of the French
fort.
The Jesuit relations present uswith a certain idea that it was
martyrs and not invaders,martyrs who tried to inculcate
(48:31):
Christian values onto indigenouspeoples.
But the Haudenosaunee havetheir own record of that
exchange, which is theRemembrance Belt just pictured
here.
It's the same history fromdifferent perspectives.
We have settler colonial valuesversus the Haudenosaunee
Onondaga values that areinvolved in that story.
(48:54):
If we re-narrate our history invarious ways and insist that
that history be taught invarious ways, then I think that
we might also have a kind ofsolution to have a kind of
solution to changing our values,as Oren was saying.
So the good news is we don'thave to save the world.
(49:21):
We don't have to save the world.
We need to save ourselves.
We need to change ourworldviews.
The world is going to be finewithout us.
How do we transform ourcultural values?
How do we value the worldaround us in different ways?
This is essentially the work ofreligion, in my view, and how
(49:42):
we can change our values from amonetary system, and I hope to
see you in the future and seeyou again soon.
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colon (49:56):
The producers of this podcast were
Adam DJ Brett and Jordan LoneColon.
Our intro and outro is socialdancing music by Oris Edwards
and Regis Cook.
This podcast is funded incollaboration with the Henry
Luce Foundation, syracuseUniversity and Hendricks Chapel
(50:16):
and the Indigenous ValuesInitiative.
If you liked this episode,please check out our website and
make sure to subscribe.
Hello and welcome to the Mapping the
Doctrine of Discovery podcast.
The producers of this podcastwould like to acknowledge with
respect the Onondaga Nationfirekeepers of the Haudenosaunee
, the indigenous peoples onwhose ancestral lands Syracuse
University now stands.
And now a special video episodewith Phil.
Philip P. Arnold (00:31):
So, value change for survival.
What does that mean?
It means we have to change theway we value the world
completely in economic, monetaryterms.
It implies that our survival,that our survival, is at stake
in this value change.
(00:52):
And one of the things that isconsistently mentioned by the
Haudenosaunee is that the earthand I've mentioned this to you
before but the earth will befine without us.
The earth doesn't need us.
The earth will be better offwithout human beings on it,
right?
So we have to get out of theframework that we're going to
(01:15):
save the planet.
Okay, we're not.
The planet has to save us fromourselves.
That's the indigenous values,the indigenous perspectives.
Speaking, the modern valuesystem of everything being
(01:38):
connected to the bottom line isclearly unsustainable.
Now, the weight of all thisseems overwhelming, seems like
how are we going to change themonetary system?
It's what and you know I'vesaid this numerous times to many
, many students I hope you allget great jobs coming out of SU,
(02:01):
that you make money, but thatcan't be the only thing that
you're concerned about, right?
And it seems like the change ofvalues of the modern world
could be really overwhelming.
But it's really just a changeof perspective and that's what
(02:22):
we've been discussing in theclass.
So this book, this book basiccall to consciousness, discusses
a trip that various indigenouspeoples from the United States,
(02:42):
from all around the UnitedStates, took to the UN, united
Nations in Geneva, switzerland,in 1977.
So what, 47 years ago?
And this delegation includedCrow people from Montana area,
(03:03):
the Hopi from the Southwest, theHaudenosaunee, so they were
from all over.
These are very traditionalleaders and the Haudenosaunee
delegation traveled on their ownpaths, as we talked about
before.
They delivered this diremessage, called the basic call
to consciousness, to the Westernworld that we don't have much
(03:26):
time left.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That was almost 50 years ago.
Philip P. Arnold (03:31):
Okay, they said to the assembled uh nations
, states from around the worldthe ice is melting in the north
that that was their message.
It's been their messageconsistently for the last 50
years.
So I want to go into it alittle bit.
(03:52):
These quotes appear in theepilogue of my book and I'll
just read from that.
So this is page 223.
All right.
So in the beginning we were toldthat the human beings who walk
about the earth have beenprovided with all the things
necessary for life.
(04:12):
We were instructed to carry alove for one another and to show
a great respect for all thebeings of this earth.
We are shown that our lifeexists with the tree of life,
that our well-being depends onthe well-being of the vegetable
life, that we are closerelatives of the four-legged
(04:33):
beings In our race.
Spiritual consciousness is thehighest form of politics.
So this spiritual understandingthat Jake Edwards so eloquently
put in his discussion onTuesday is a form of politics,
is a form of leadership, of theorganization of human beings
(04:58):
into a polity.
They go on to say ours is a wayof life.
We believe that all livingthings are spiritual beings.
Spirits can be expressed asenergy forms manifested in
matter.
A blade of grass is an energyform manifested into matter.
(05:20):
Grass, matter, the spirit ofthe grass is that unseen force
that produces the species ofgrass, and it is manifest to us
in the form of real grass.
So using grass, just the mostbasic kind of living force there
(05:52):
is, we can appreciate how allof life is considered sacred,
because all of life thenparticipates in what they call
the tree of life.
So in the language of thehistory of religions that I was
trained in, this is an exampleof the manifestation of the
sacred, a hierophany.
We talked about that earlier inthe semester.
So a hierophany, manifestationof the sacred, but not in some
(06:13):
kind of big like God revealsthemselves in a burning bush,
we'll say.
Like in the Old Testament orthe Torah, god reveals himself
to Moses.
This is an everyday kind ofmanifestation of the sacred.
That is what human beings areresponsible for.
(06:37):
So when the guy in that littleclip from Buy Now says how are
we going to reconcile being inthese corporate entities as
human beings I think that's whathe's going for there how are we
going to reconcile?
How are you going to reconcilefitting in the bottom line in
(07:00):
your job, making money, withbeing human right and depending
on other living beings for yourhumanity?
All right, so these are longquotes, you don't have to write
them down and they're also inthe book, so in another section
called the Importance ofCreation.
(07:21):
So we're talking about creationnot as a kind of moment in the
history of the world, not at thebeginning of things only, but
as a kind of ongoing reality.
Okay, so for the Haudenosaunee,all things of the world are
real, material things.
The creation is a true materialphenomenon, and the creation
(07:46):
manifests itself to us throughreality.
So it's not just about thecreation story, it's about what
the creation story points us to,how it imparts those values or
relationships.
The spiritual universe, then,is manifest to man as the
creation, the creation thatsupports life.
(08:08):
We believe that man is real, apart of the creation, a part of
the creation, and that his dutyis to support life in
conjunction with other beings.
That is why we call ourselvesOngwe Hongwe, or real people,
the real people, right, becausethey're real human beings of
(08:32):
creation.
Okay, so you'll notice that inthis cosmology, in this
worldview, there are no things,no objects.
Okay, In.
English, it's almost impossibleto talk without things.
In our language, consumerism isall about things and the
(08:56):
commodification of things.
Okay, but there is a livingworld that surrounds us.
The Haudenosaunee know thisbecause they are alive, they are
human, they are real people.
They're ongwe hongwe, right?
So creation, then, is somethingthat is constantly unfolding
(09:18):
every day.
That's what Jake was sayingwhen he said that's why we give
the Thanksgiving address everymorning.
It's not about prayer, it's notabout asking for anything, it's
about being human, it's aboutbeing in proper relationship
with the material world.
So how does this modern selfcontrast with the indigenous
(09:45):
self?
A consumerist self?
Capital S-E-L-F is the wholepoint of consumerism, right?
All goods flow towards me.
As a consumer, I'm the centerof the world.
For the indigenous self, theentirety of creation is involved
(10:08):
in one's self, which is a kindof biological fact.
We are in relationship to theworld around us, where
indigenous peoples understandthat they are materially slash,
(10:29):
spiritually connected to theentirety of creation, as they
say in this book Basic Cult ofConsciousness.
Our roots are deep in the landswhere we live.
In the lands where we live, wehave a great love for our
(10:50):
country, for our birthplace isthere.
The soil is rich from the bonesof thousands of our generations
, okay, from the ancestors.
Right, we are descendants fromthose people we don't even know,
have never met.
And yet they're the reasonwe're here and we talked about
(11:10):
this.
Each of us was created in thoselands and it is our duty to
take great care of them, becausefrom these lands will spring
the future generations of theOngwa Hongwa, as they say, the
seven generations.
Right, jake was talking aboutseven generations.
(11:31):
They're looking up at us fromthe ground.
Their faces are in the soil wewalk about with great respect,
for the earth is a very sacredplace.
So, in the modern self, I'msitting here in my house, which
is a very nice house.
I love my house, but it's mine.
(11:53):
So the land, in this modernevaluation, belongs to me, the
house belongs to me, but reallythe house is over 50 years old,
almost 60 years old.
I didn't create it, I'm not incharge of it, I'm kind of just a
(12:15):
caretaker for my house.
Someone else is going to occupythis place later.
So consumerism, property givesus a kind of an illusion that
it's ours.
But what does that mean?
But the indigenous self statesvery clearly that we belong to
(12:38):
the land and not the other wayaround.
The land does not belong to usreally.
In fact it doesn't.
We belong to the land, and youknow an illustration of that.
Some of you might be Irish,irish-american.
I've got some Irish ancestry.
(12:58):
So we had the opportunity to goback to Ireland.
I think I've talked to youabout this already, but going
back to Ireland was quite anamazing experience.
We went to Galway and Dublin,and in Galway there's a very
strong strong relationship tothe language.
(13:21):
The language is coming back andwith it comes a very strong
relationship to the language.
A language is coming back andwith it comes a very strong
relationship to the land.
So Irish political bodies havebeen very active in this front.
For example and I mentioned thisin the last class that when
they build a highway, let's say,from Dublin to Cork or
(13:44):
someplace right.
When they build a highway, theywill take into mind some of the
sacred places along the way,and someone was just telling me
about them building.
A friend of mine, at themeeting in San Diego we went to
over the holiday, he was tellingme that they built a highway.
(14:06):
You know, four-lane highway,modern, super modern highway.
But they built it around whatthey call the fairy tree,
because that's where the littlepeople of the land come together
and historically you know thatis an important site for not
(14:28):
only the little people of landbut also the human beings and
their relationship to it.
So Ireland, I think, isexperiencing a new kind of
indigenous value.
It's also one of the richestcountries in Europe right now,
at this time.
(14:49):
So think about that how you canbridge a monetary, modern self
with a gift economy, indigenousself Responsibility.
We are not a people who demandor ask anything of creation of
the creators of life, that's,all of the creators of life.
(15:12):
Instead, we give greetings andthanksgivings that all the
forces of life are still at workTo this day.
The territories we still holdare filled with trees, animals
and other gifts of creation.
In these places we stillreceive our nourishment from our
(15:35):
mother earth.
So it's not like they're noteating animals or eating the
berries or tapping the mapletree.
Right, they're consuming all ofthose things.
But what do you do in exchange?
We don't think in those terms.
When we go into Wegmans, we'renot thinking in terms of like,
(15:59):
well, where does this come from?
How was it harvested?
What does it mean?
Right, so taking somethingrequires an exchange, a gift, if
not there, if not there aredire consequences.
Right, that's the thanksgivingaddress.
(16:20):
So then they get into what, inreligious studies, we call
liberation theology.
Right, liberation theology is abig category in the history of
Catholic theology.
It's not often taught, and whatthey're doing in this book
(16:43):
Basic Call to Consciousness ischanging the attitude.
The reference points for whatliberation means it's the
liberation not just of humanbeings, but of all living beings
living on this planet need tobreak with the narrow concept of
(17:08):
human liberation and begin tosee liberation as something that
needs to be expanded orextended to the whole of the
natural world.
What is needed is theliberation of all the things
that support life the air, thewaters, the trees, all things
that support the sacred web oflife.
So human beings are really notthe center of the world.
(17:30):
Physically speaking,biologically speaking, we're
dependent on the world thatsurrounds us and we need to
focus on liberating thoseelements of the living world
upon which we depend.
So I want to think of this interms of slavery.
(17:54):
The stain of American history isslavery.
You could say the sin ofAmerican history is slavery.
What is slavery?
It's discussed asdehumanization of human beings.
Right, there is such a thingtoday as modern day slavery,
(18:17):
sexual slavery, right, all kindsof different elements of
slavery.
But really slavery just comesdown to the commodification, the
reduction of human beings tomonetary value.
They're for sale and they areconsumables.
(18:41):
Slaves are reduced, they takethem from their human form and
put them into a monetary form.
That's the history of slavery.
That's what it is.
Now there's a difference.
There's all kinds of slavery.
(19:01):
I'll say there's all kinds ofslavery, I'll say, because
indigenous people of Africa wereenslaved in the transatlantic
trade, and that's chattelslavery, because they were
enslaved for not just themselvesbut all their generations.
(19:22):
That's where the one drop rulecomes into play.
Right, they're enslaved alltheir generations.
So that's chattel slavery.
That's, that's the mostdehumanizing type of all.
My folks came over asindentured servants, as a kind
of slavery that you could buyoff with, you know, working for
(19:46):
one year, two years, three yearsin the fields, and then you are
free.
Okay, at some point the firstarnold is called a freeman.
Okay, and that's what thatrefers to.
What they're doing in this book,basically called consciousness,
is that saying?
They're saying that slavery orenslavement happens when any
(20:11):
living being is reduced to theirmonetary value, their use value
, their exchange value, right?
So you go into Wegmans.
The idea is that what we'reexperiencing is enslavement of
all of those elements of theliving world, of living creation
(20:33):
, right?
So the question is how do wereconcile the enslavement of all
living beings, not just humanbeings, but all living beings in
a way that ensures our survival?
Because that's what we're inthe bottom line, that's what
we're talking about.
(20:53):
Then they talk about leadership,which is very interesting
because it's like nothing in ourworld today, given our recent
experience with the election.
Because, as I said, it'sobvious to me that we are in a
(21:16):
kind of crisis mode right nowand it's being reflected in our
choice of leaders.
Our choice of leaders have tolook like strong men, look like
(21:38):
strongmen, have to look likeintolerant of diversity and
elements of what theHaudenosaunee are talking about.
It's just, it's obvious, andthere's a certain kind of
religious force that is sweepingthem into power.
According to the book, inaccordance with our ways, we are
required to hold many kinds offeasts and ceremonies, that is,
leaders are required to holdmany kinds of feasts and
(21:58):
ceremonies that can best bedescribed as giveaways.
In the Northwest native people,like you know Kwakutl and
others, hidatsa, they hadelaborate forms of giveaways
that they called potlatch.
But this is true for many, ifnot all, indigenous peoples.
(22:24):
It is said that among our people, our leaders, those whom the
Anglo people insist on callingchiefs the real word for the
leader is loyani, men of thegood mind or women of the good
mind are the poorest of us.
They have the least becausethey give it all away by the
(22:47):
laws of our culture.
Our leaders are both politicaland spiritual leaders.
They are leaders of manyceremonies that require the
distribution of great wealth.
As spiritual and politicalleaders, they provide a kind of
economic conduit thedistribution, redistribution of
(23:11):
the stuff of life.
To become a political leader, aperson is required to be a
spiritual leader, and to becomea spiritual leader, a person
must be extraordinarily generousin terms of material goods.
So leadership in among theHaudenosaunee means, on the one
(23:33):
hand, they're very tough,tough-minded, but also very
humble.
They're serving the people andthey're generous.
They're generous with theirtime, they're generous with all
their worldly possessions.
Okay, they're generous with alltheir worldly possessions.
(23:54):
This is diametrically opposedto modern ideas of strong
leadership.
Strong leadership essentiallyif I'm to guess, over the next
(24:20):
four years strong leadershipmeans being extraordinarily
selfish, extraordinarily focusedon one's own personal gain, and
this comes with a kind ofmonetary value system.
Look out, because it's going toget really bad, I predict, in
the next few years.
It's going to get really bad, Ipredict, in the next few years.
So I wanted to include thatidea of leadership as well.
All right, so now moving tovalue change for survival.
(24:44):
So value change for survival isthe title of the epilogue of
this final chapter.
Is the title of the epilogue ofthis final chapter, but it's
actually a report that was givenat the United Nations in 1991.
So, celebrating its 40th yearin 1995,.
(25:05):
Remember, the United Nations wasestablished in 1945,
immediately after the SecondWorld War.
So in 1985, the United Nationsestablished the global forum of
spiritual and parliamentaryleaders, in other words,
spiritual leaders and politicalleaders coming together to
(25:27):
discuss human survival.
So this international group ofabout I don't know.
I've seen a picture of thisgroup at Oxford.
There's probably maybe like 500people in this group.
It's huge.
The Dalai Lama, mother Teresa,archbishop of Canterbury at the
(25:49):
time, senator Al Gore, before hewas vice president, president
Mikhail Gorbachev, who's passedaway, and that's just to name a
few.
And they met for six years inNew York, moscow, oxford and
Tokyo.
Representing Native America wasOren Lyons, joe Aguisho, faith
(26:12):
keeper of the Turtle Clan of theOnondaga Nation.
At the forum's final meeting inTokyo, the group was called
upon to summarize their work bythe executive coordinator, akio
Matsumura.
All agreed.
The work could be distilledinto four words value change for
survival.
Now Oren speaks about valuechange for survival regularly,
(26:39):
and what I'm submitting to youis that the values that we have
to aspire to should beindigenous ones, because
indigenous peoples have beenorganizing themselves around
their various language, withtheir various languages, around
(27:01):
their lands for millennia, andit's something that we should
really pay attention, to, listento and think about.
Do you need help catching up ontoday's topic?
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colo (27:11):
really pay attention to, listen to and
think about.
Do you need help catching up ontoday's topic or do you want to
learn more about the resourcesmentioned?
If so, please check our websiteat
podcastdoctrineofdiscoveryorgfor more information and, if you
like this episode, review it onApple, spotify or wherever you
listen to podcasts.
And now back to theconversation.
Philip P. Arnold (27:34):
So I might have played this for you before,
but I want to play it again inthis context of it's a YouTube
called Value Change for Survival.
It's part of the WampumChronicles.
It's a discussion with Oren,probably 15 years ago now maybe
10, at Onondaga Lake, where theGreat Law of Peace was founded
(27:58):
thousands of years ago.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
We begin this conversation with a historical
perspective and also with theunderstanding of where we are in
these contemporary times.
We're in a very, very serioussituation and we're sending out
an alarm.
We're sending out an alert.
(28:27):
We were told that when thisbegins to deteriorate, there's
going to be certain, certainsignals that will alert you to
the degradation, and the firstone was the acceleration of the
winds.
(28:48):
They said watch the winds, andthe winds start to accelerate.
You're in a downgrade.
And they said and how peopletreat their children, watch how
people treat their children whenthey're abused and misused the
children.
You're in the downgrade.
You're in the downgrade.
(29:13):
We're gonna have to go far tosee.
So, 7 billion people, soon to beeight, soon to be nine, and
we're caught in nature's law ofcompound.
1950, 2.5 billion people in theworld.
(29:34):
That's 64 years ago.
And today, 64 years later, wehave 7 billion people.
That's a problem, that's acompound action that you're not
controlling.
And so we've created what theycall a global warming situation,
(29:58):
where carbon has got into theair to such an extent now that
it's impacted the very systemthat supports this whole
planetary system.
You've been impacted the system.
Now what's the result of thatcarbon?
What is the result of thatToxic gases that we were
(30:20):
releasing.
It was that it too iscompounded and so it's causing
the ice to melt and the ice ismelting very fast.
Causing the ice to melt and theice is melting very fast.
There was a great writer, namewas Hemingway, and he wrote a
story about the snows ofKilimanjaro, and it's not there
(30:43):
anymore, it's gone.
We always think that that wouldconcern people.
We would think that they wouldbe concerned that the ice is
melting so fast.
The waters are rising and we'reexperiencing really change,
(31:06):
severe change.
You're not going to fix that.
There's no screwdriver, there'sno wrench, there's no
instruments going to fix that.
It's only the conduct of thepeople, working with nature and
its own laws that will bringthat back into any kind of a
(31:28):
peaceful, comprehensive way oflife.
2000, year 2000,.
We were invited to UnitedNations, our great gathering of
religious spiritual leaders, andthey asked us to make a message
.
And so we made that message,and that message was the ice is
(31:49):
melting.
Which was the ice is melting.
And no matter how profound yourdeclarations are and no matter
how mind bending, influentialthose statements are, the ice is
(32:11):
melting.
It's not listening to yourwords, it's not listening to
your ego, it's not listening toyour ideas.
It's simply melting Becausethat's the law, that's nature's
law, and so nature's willprevail.
When the peacemaker planted thatgreat tree of peace here, very
(32:31):
symbolic tree that he planted,and he said this tree is going
to reach to the sky and everyonecan see it, this great tree of
peace based on the spirituallaws, spiritual laws of creation
.
And he said to our leaders andall the people he said never
(32:55):
challenge those laws because youwill not prevail.
That's good instruction, butsomething that we don't listen
to and something that we haven'tdone.
So we've challenged those lawsright up to right now and we
seem to be hell-bent.
I guess, if you want to go inthat direction, there will be
(33:18):
plenty hell-bent from theconsequence of what we're doing
now.
And as global warming advances,when heat comes and rain comes,
it will be wetter.
Here it's going to get muchwetter than it is.
You'll have a hard time gettingyour plant in the ground in the
(33:38):
spring because it will be toomuch rain and then it will dry
out at the end of the year whenyou're looking for rain and then
, when it's dry, it's going toget drier.
Right now, california, there'sno more crisis.
And when you're a water level,can you imagine?
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colon (34:00):
Well, it's hard to imagine.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Here is the most brilliant, as they tell us
technologically smart people inthe world, running out of water
and being surprised by it.
Yeah, I don't know whathappened.
It's pretty late in the day.
This goes Beetles, nature.
(34:25):
You can't negotiate with abeetle.
You might not listen to him.
He's not gonna eat your trees.
It's all intended.
Everything was in balance.
(34:47):
At one time, the beetle couldeat the tree, the tree would
survive.
But now, with things gettingwarmer, the beetle has two life
cycles.
The second life cycle will killthat tree in one year.
And that's what he's doing.
(35:07):
He's chewing his way right upto West Coast, all the way to
Alaska.
He's cutting trees.
He's over here, just comingover here.
He's been chewing these treesdown.
Why do you negotiate with abeetle?
Why you don't?
(35:27):
You can.
He's got a different leader.
He's got a different leader.
He listens to a differentleader Nature.
It's what Peacemaker said Don'tchallenge those laws because you
can't prevail.
(35:47):
And so common sense and themessage that we're sending you
right now, the message we'retalking to you about, what we're
saying is listen.
Listen.
We're older people, and that'swhere indigenous people have
something to add to thisdiscussion, because they talk
about language, thinking, theytalk about seven generations.
(36:10):
They talk about responsibilityto the future.
No discussion about gold orsilver or money.
Discussion about protectingwater, protecting life.
That's what this discussion isabout.
Now we don't have a lot of timeand so this message that we're
(36:36):
sending, this message that we'resending right now is a message
of common sense.
It's just common sense to dowhat's right to share.
The message is to share themessages to share, share equally
everything.
And then the prophecies that wehave, that we've been told.
(37:00):
We're careful with thoseprophecies because they're not
good.
They're not good.
There is hope in that prophecywhen you, actually, when the
peacemaker said it's up to you.
When the peacemaker finishedthis great work here, a woman
(37:27):
asked him.
She said well, now that you'vedone all this, how long is it
going to last?
He said that's up to you.
So everything is in our hands,it's up to us.
There's no lightning coming, nosavior coming, no, nothing
coming.
We're only alone.
Philip P. Arnold (37:50):
One way or the other, we're awake me alone.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
One way or the other and I wait.
So when the time is on, I wouldsay now over, start over now.
I think we're at a good time.
It's a good time to be here.
It's a good time to be here.
It's a good time.
Let's see what you're made of,see how strong you are.
(38:20):
Value change for survival,change your values.
I don't know how cringy this is.
What are they doing here?
What's up?
Philip P. Arnold (38:39):
with that.
So, as I said, that's Orentalking about value change for
survival and I think in the endthere he was really pointing us
in a direction If it's not asolution, at least it's kind of
a way through that we need topay attention to what really
(39:01):
matters protecting water,protecting life.
So, as you move into your jobsand I hope, like I said, I hope
that you all get great jobs, butyou're going to be working for
corporations that have differentpriorities.
Some of them will be prioritiesthat align with, kind of the
(39:26):
future survival of the world.
Others who are indifferent tothat, that the bottom line is
the only thing that matters.
So how do we move ahead in away where we have a viable
future?
Because consumerism and I wantyou to think about this,
(39:46):
consumerism is built completelyon a fabrication right.
Consumerism is built completelyon a fabrication right, a
fabrication of values.
We talked about how themonetary economy is completely
an act of faith.
So it is easily changed, easilymanipulated.
It has no intrinsic value inand of itself, and yet that's
(40:11):
what we're all chasing.
I include myself in it.
It's what we're all chasing isthe almighty dollar.
So how do we?
I think first step is torealize that this is all just a
complete mythic, or a fictionwe'll say a fiction Creation
(40:32):
that came out of somebody's mind.
It's not real, but it is kindof, so we have to pay attention
to it and it's determining howwe are going to be able to
survive into the future.
So there's another movementafoot.
(40:55):
There are different kinds ofsolutions that are coming up,
alternatives to this way ofthinking.
Some people, for example in thefilm by now there are people
who are doing a kind of wastemanagement practice.
They're recycling goods,they're digging through trash,
(41:19):
and this includes people inother countries where we ship
our iPhones or old tablets orwhatever.
Right that we no longer useMillions of these a day and so
they're focused on, you know,sort of the end process.
One of the things that comes upin the film is that corporations
(41:44):
really need to figure out howthings can last longer and how
things can enter the waste cyclemore responsibly.
There's another movement goingon.
It has been for almost 15 yearsnow called Rights of Nature.
So the Rights of Naturemovements, for example, legally
(42:09):
imbues, lakes like Lake Erie,for example, or rivers, or
mountains, or trees, you know,old growth, forests with rights
that they can, that they have aright to exist, right.
So this is lawyers, lawyersworking, environmental lawyers
(42:31):
working through the legal systemin various ways.
I'll give you an example ofthat later.
Then also, um um winona leduc,I think uh, in in this epilogue
she she's a anashinabe womanactivist but also a
Harvard-trained economist, andshe talks about how, when we
(42:57):
create our mega projects,development projects for strip
mines or whatever oil pipelines,those kinds of things we only
think in terms of itsprofitability, right, its
monetary value.
That's how corporations think.
But if we can think more longterm seven generations thinking
(43:22):
and think of a triple bottomline, something that she didn't
create, but it's now taught inWhitman, for example now taught
in Whitman, for example, a lotof business schools that we have
to also think in terms of itsenvironmental costs as well as
its spiritual costs, sort of ouryou know the costs to our
(43:47):
treasured environments, right?
So thinking in terms of thetriple bottom line when working
on these projects.
Anyway, there's a film calledthe Invisible Hand that kind of
illustrates many of thesemovements that are going on
(44:08):
right now.
So in 2010,.
Also in 2010, there was anindigenous president of Bolivia,
ivo Morales, who created thechanges in the constitution of
(44:29):
Bolivia, which I think have beenrescinded since then because
there was a sort of hostiletakeover of Bolivia by corporate
interests, because Bolivia isknown to have a lot of lithium
and so that's going to be veryimportant for our batteries,
ironically, in sustainablevehicles or electric vehicles
(44:51):
and that sort of thing.
But anyway, at this time theycame up with an inspiring
statement that we can imbue theearth.
We can take this indigenousperspective and really focus on
how important the earth is as aliving being.
It says we, the peoples ofnations of Earth, considering
(45:14):
that we are all part of MotherEarth and an indivisible living
community of interrelated andinterdependent beings with a
common destiny, gratefullyacknowledging that Mother Earth
is the source of life,nourishment and and provides
everything we need to live well,recognizing that the capitalist
(45:35):
system and all forms ofdepredation, exploitation, abuse
and contamination have causedgreat destruction, degradation
and disruption of Mother Earth.
Putting life as we know ittoday at risk through phenomena
such as climate change.
Putting life as we know ittoday at risk through phenomena
such as climate change.
Convinced that in aninterdependent living community,
(45:56):
it is not possible to recognizethe rights of only human beings
without causing an imbalancewithin Mother Earth.
Affirming that to guaranteehuman rights, it is necessary to
recognize and defend the rightsof Mother Earth and all beings
in her, and that there areexisting cultures, practices and
laws that do so.
(46:18):
Conscious of the urgency oftaking care of decisive
collective action to transformstructures and systems that
cause climate change and otherthreats to Mother Earth,
proclaim this universaldeclaration of the rights of
Mother Earth and call on theGeneral Assembly of the United
(46:39):
Nations to adopt it as a commonstandard of achievement for all
peoples and nations of the world.
And, to the end, that everyindividual and institution takes
responsibility for promoting,through teaching, education and
consciousness-raising, respectfor the rights recognized in
(47:00):
this Declaration and ensure,through prompt and progressive
measures and mechanisms,national and international,
their universal and effectiverecognition and observance among
all peoples and states of theworld.
So that was their UniversalDeclaration of the Rights of
Mother Earth.
That was done by Armara peopleof Bolivia.
(47:22):
So these are ancient peopleswith indigenous values of their
own who saw that there had to bea reckoning right.
And so all over the world thereare these efforts that are
trying to push back against bigmoney interests, extractive
economic interests that we readabout in the Economic Hitman
(47:47):
that we've inhabited throughoutthe Industrial Revolution, into
the shopping season.
One of the ways that we'retrying to change values is to
change the story of America.
At the Scano Center I've gonethrough this in some detail but
(48:08):
I'll just put it here at the endbecause I included in the
epilogue that we're decolonizingthe narrative of the French
fort.
The Jesuit relations present uswith a certain idea that it was
martyrs and not invaders,martyrs who tried to inculcate
(48:31):
Christian values onto indigenouspeoples.
But the Haudenosaunee havetheir own record of that
exchange, which is theRemembrance Belt just pictured
here.
It's the same history fromdifferent perspectives.
We have settler colonial valuesversus the Haudenosaunee
Onondaga values that areinvolved in that story.
(48:54):
If we re-narrate our history invarious ways and insist that
that history be taught invarious ways, then I think that
we might also have a kind ofsolution to have a kind of
solution to changing our values,as Oren was saying.
So the good news is we don'thave to save the world.
(49:21):
We don't have to save the world.
We need to save ourselves.
We need to change ourworldviews.
The world is going to be finewithout us.
How do we transform ourcultural values?
How do we value the worldaround us in different ways?
This is essentially the work ofreligion, in my view, and how
(49:42):
we can change our values from amonetary system, and I hope to
see you in the future and seeyou again soon.
Jordan Brady Loewen-Colon (49:56):
The producers of this podcast were
Adam DJ Brett and Jordan LoneColon.
Our intro and outro is socialdancing music by Oris Edwards
and Regis Cook.
This podcast is funded incollaboration with the Henry
Luce Foundation, syracuseUniversity and Hendricks Chapel
(50:16):
and the Indigenous ValuesInitiative.
If you liked this episode,please check out our website and
make sure to subscribe.
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