Breaking Into Wealth Management | Romy Cuadras, Pictet Wealth Management

In this episode, Anthony speaks with Romy Cuadras, Head of Alternatives and Fund Solutions at Pictet Wealth Management, about her unconventional path into finance and the lessons she’s learned across global markets.

Romy shares how her Cuban heritage, resilience, and adaptability shaped a career spanning operations, trading, hedge funds, and now leading alternatives for ultra-high-net-worth clients. She offers practical advice on navigating pressure, stakeholder management, and why curiosity, courage, and financial independence are critical skills for young professionals.

It’s an honest look at succeeding in wealth management, full of insights on soft skills, resilience, and standing out in an increasingly competitive industry.

(00:00) Intro

(00:49) Romy’s Journey

(10:43) Positive Mindset

(15:59) Head of Alternatives

(17:38) Soft Skills in Finance

(25:37) Thriving Under Pressure

(33:19) Stakeholder Dynamics

(39:06) Diversity as Strength

(45:33) Standout Performers

(51:22) Meaningful Career

*****

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Market Maker Podcast, where I'm
joined by a special guest, Romy Quadras, who's the Head of
Alternatives and Fund Solutions at Pictay Wealth Management.
And with over 20 years in the wealth management industry, Romy
has LED global teams, advised ultra high net worth clients
across Europe, Latin America, Asia and the Middle East, all

(00:22):
while staying grounded in her belief that empathy, resilience
and adaptability are key to longterm success.
So thrilled to have you with us,Romy, how are you?
I'm good, thank you. I'm quite excited to share my
life story here. No, no, absolutely.
And you know, when we spoke, I think a few weeks ago, I left

(00:42):
that initial conversation feeling super inspired.
So I know that this is going to be packed full of really cool
advice. So first of all, why don't we
start with where a lot of our audience is, which is in their
formative years. They could be at school,
university, or in their early careers.
But just want to get a sense of you sort of growing up, what did
you imagine that you'd be doing professionally?

(01:05):
Like what were your thoughts at that kind of student age?
So take a little bit before student HI need to take a step
back. And I think it's important to
talk about MyHeritage. So I'm first generation American
of Cuban heritage. And like many immigrant
families, and I'll come back to that in a second, your parents
have the traditional expectations.
You got to become a lawyer, you're going to become a doctor,

(01:26):
you're to become an accountant. And it's also important to take
into consideration that Cubans in Miami, especially those
arriving before the mid 80s, youknow, they feel exiled.
So This is why you use the word immigrant in parentheses.
And what does that mean? You know, they always believed,
you know, I was always taught bymy grandparents and my parents
that we're going to return to Cuba one day, right?

(01:47):
We're going to, you know, Cuba'sgoing to be democratic one day.
So you need to have, you need tostudy and acquire skills across
the borders that are transferable.
So when we go back, you know, you can also be successful there
as well as in the US. Obviously, we never went back.
And I don't think we're going back ever anytime soon.
And then you Fast forward to high school and I think this is

(02:08):
where you really start thinking,you know, in the US and the
American mentality, you start thinking about college, right?
Where are you going to study? You know, again, having that
lawyer, doctor, accountant mentality, exile mindset.
And I like the social studies. I like history.
I took international relations. I was a student council.
I did the mock United Nations, ironically representing Cuba at

(02:30):
six, 7-8 years old. I had encyclopedias.
I'm that old. We had encyclopedias and I
remember going through them and saying I was going to be the
secretary of the United Nations.No idea what that meant at that
point, you know, So I always like things that connected
cultures, ideas, people. You know, I thought I was going
to work for the US Department ofState, you know, in the

(02:51):
embassies or United Nations. I took the test and everything.
And then because life has a way of we say in in Spanish, we say
when life throws you lemons, youlearn to make lemonade.
So I got thrown lemons the last two years of high school and I
worked at a gym, specifically living well, lady, and then
nutrition and fitness center. And I really like sports science

(03:11):
at this point. So I was now thinking of a
sports medicine. So you can kind of see, you
know, like the typical late, early, we're trying to figure
out what we're going to do with our lives.
We have a lot of influence coming from new society and our
parents and our day-to-day. So yeah.
So if you notice, I've nervous said the word banking.
I've never said the word finance.
I've never ever thought I would imagine myself being in, in, in

(03:34):
the, you know, where I am today.But I think, you know, my career
path was shaped by the values and, and obviously being, you
know, MyHeritage, you know, hardwork, integrity, resilience,
discipline, commitment, transferable skills, you know,
connected to people, ideas and cultures.
So that was always in the mix, just never banking or.

(03:56):
Finance, yeah. And so even up to the point
where you go to study at university, right.
So you were studying international relations and
Latin American studies. So I'm I'm assuming the business
part had or finance hadn't even come up to you must have been in
your 18/19/20 years old at that point?
Yeah. So, yeah, my path to finance was
definitely unconventional, but Ithink it was shaped by three

(04:19):
things which are really important.
And we'll talk about this throughout the podcast.
I, I hope so 1 is my personal network.
You'd be surprised who's going to open doors for you or where
opportunities are going to come from having that early practical
experience. And I'll come to that in a
second. And the academic grounding here.
I, I think there is, you know, even though my mom always tells

(04:40):
me, I don't understand, you needto waste your university time.
I'm like, oh, quite the contrary.
I do use my university degree inwhat I do on a day-to-day basis.
So as I I mentioned before, I worked at this nutrition and
fitness center and I met one of my best friends actually, and in
particular one gentleman. You know, he even walked my
mother down the aisle at my wedding.
I mean, really close person. He was working at Coots USA.

(05:01):
So it's a private bank and nutrition and fitness center
closed and he invited me to workon a short term contract back in
1994. I graduated high school in 1993,
so we could put the ages now. And if you, you probably don't
remember, but for those of you who were around like then bank
statements were done manually. So they were printed.
You have to split them. You have to find the cheques,

(05:22):
you have to do all this stuff that goes.
So I came to work for, you know,four or five days to help with
the bank statements so we can get them out to the clients.
And I stayed, I stayed for four more years.
So I, I worked at COOT from 1994to 1998.
And I, you know, I pretty much did everything in the operations
department. I did securities

(05:44):
reconciliations, I did bill paying, I did the account
openings and reviewing documentsin both English and Spanish.
By the way, I worked in the Fed room.
This was fun. We still sent wire transfers
manually. So I still have ABA numbers in
my head, if you can routing numbers in my head.
This is before Swiss. We're still doing telexes.

(06:05):
So really I'm just learning the banking industry.
So I was there for four years and really learning how a bank
works, right. And then I didn't know this was
my third or my 4th year. So it was near the end because
it was around 1998 and I graduated in 1999.
I went to EFG bank and again my friend who bought me to Kootz
also left to EFG. But at this time I had already

(06:26):
made connections with a lot of senior management within Kootz.
And if you know the story of EFG, a lot of the ex Kootz
people left to EFG and we created a bank in Miami in this
particular. So I left with them and that was
huge because again, it shows, you know, and I'm and I was
lucky to also have people who really value the educational

(06:46):
part. So they really gave me time and
and flexibility to be able to also finish my studies because
now I'm working full time and going to school full time as
well. So, yeah, so I went to work at
EFG that established the presence in Miami and they were
very closely connected to Switzerland.
And here I worked, I moved from operations into more trading and

(07:08):
portfolio construction. So more on the investment side.
I remember doing my FINRA licenses, my regulated license
before even having a university degree, right.
So options, derivatives, supervisory, you know, these
type of things. And what was clear here, also an
EMG through a Brazilian client, actually, I was introduced to
the hedge fund sector, which will completely change my life

(07:29):
and my career and shape my career going forward.
And this part was fun because I finished my university degree in
99. And if you don't hedge funds and
there's a lot of derivatives andstatistics, you know, the Greek
alphabet is represented completely throughout, you know,
alpha, beta, etcetera. So I went to night classes in
the Community College to take classes in statistics and

(07:49):
derivatives. And it was quite fun because
first night class in Miami and aCommunity College has a really
fun crowd. So you again, you meet a
different people, different networks.
Now I'm not doing it for fun. I'm doing it for my work.
So the motivation is different. I already have my degree, right?
Your, your motivations are different.
Now I really need, I want to be able to sound like I know what
I'm talking about when I enter the room, right?

(08:12):
And, and that really helps. So demanding, going back to
juggling, demanding a full time job with my studies, really hone
my skills and time management, prioritization, sacrifice, which
also are things, you know, in a distant, in addition to
discipline, hardware commitment that really horn, but also the
people I meet during this time. So I'm quite young, I'm quite
moldable. That's a word in English And I

(08:36):
and, and I thankfully I used theword luck, but I to me, luck is
preparation meets opportunities.I think that's a lot about luck.
Lucky to have amazing people around me who, who also helped
me and push me and, and recognize, you know, my efforts
to able to grow my career into finance, into degrees.
And yes, so Latin American history and international

(08:58):
relations. Also remember I'm working in
private banking that's focused on Latin American markets.
So that helps me also to discusswith the clients to understand
their, their backgrounds, their cultures, the history of what's
going on. Remember, this is the 90s.
So most of Latin America is emerging from military
dictatorships or, or different or social, you know, different
types of, you know, the money, the wealth has been created and

(09:22):
then they want to protect that wealth.
How do we protect that wealth? So believe it or not, a lot of
my academic at the moment, I didn't understand it, but a lot
of that academic background did help me in, in, in my
international finance part. And then of course, the turning
point came in 2004 when I moved from EFG Miami to EFG Geneva.
And that really set, you know, big focusing 100% in hedge

(09:45):
funds, running the fund of hedgefunds from 2004 to 2007.
And that really set a trajectoryfor the next parts of my career
as well. So do you think then that that
transition going from operationsto then doing derivatives and
the kind of more that part of finance, which can become quite
complex and then the next part when you're moving geographic

(10:07):
locations, So all these different sort of challenges, is
there parts there? Because a lot of people would be
quite reluctant or fearful to put themselves through that type
of challenge to start with. So what just break down for me
like that mentality, was it because of what you described
from your childhood and that waskind of the way things got done?
Or when you look about retrospectively and try to think

(10:29):
about practical device to share with other young people when
they're going through this kind of change and uncertainty and
challenge, how do you think you could kind of set them up
mentally to to overcome those types of situations?
You know, it's, it's actually, I've thought a lot about this
and, and obviously, you know, I knew this podcast was coming.

(10:49):
So there's, you know, you start thinking about your career, you
know, how things change where you end up.
And you know, I think there's several things.
I think obviously growing up with this exiled mindset,
immigrant mindset, I think that there is a huge influence.
I think if I add into that, you know, being raised by a single
mother in the US and, and, and, and the values of hard work,

(11:12):
discipline, commitment, I'm actually whenever we had to make
a decision and I didn't know, you know, I'm scared.
I don't have to do my mama's dayin Spanish Derate pero nunca de
cabeza. So throw yourself a a dive jump,
but never had first always feet first.
So you really think about it derate.

(11:32):
That's always been the derate. Just go for it, right?
You know, the world doesn't end with the only guarantee.
You know, if you die, you cannotchange, but everything else is
fixable. You know, everything else can be
changed. And I think, you know, many
times I had when I go to Geneva,one of my mom's friends when I
was, I was very scared to leave.You know, we're Cubans community
small. We, you know, we live next to
our mother. You know, everyone, everyone in

(11:53):
our world is Cuban. You know, it's kind of a it's a
very safe environment, right. And I'm thinking about, I
remember my mom's friend saying to me, go, you can always come
back. You're not exiled like we are,
you know, And it was something that it was sad.
It's quite a sad statement. But at the same time, it gives
you that inspiration that yes, you can be bold, you can be
courageous, you can take the risks.

(12:15):
But there's always a safety net,right?
If you do it calculated, if you think about it, if you think, if
you know you can work hard, you know, you have those values of
hard work, discipline, commitment.
I think it's important. And when you talk, I think the
first thing I would say to people, stay bold and be
courageous. It's so important because you

(12:36):
don't regret, even know when you're, I hate to say is when
you're in your deathbed, you're not going to regret the things
you did. You're going to regret all the
things you didn't do, right. And I think this is always, you
know, mistakes are great. And you know, that's how you
learn, right? So again, it takes time.
I'm not going to pretend there'san easy time.
You know, I'm in it part of my life as well, where I passed all
of this. But I think it's about having

(12:58):
the right people around you, having the support network.
So if you fail, and I use the word fail, I don't think
failure. Failure is death.
That's right. You can't come back from that.
You can come back from everything else.
My mom always had it in the kitchen.
The sign is, is I did Spanish not to translate to English and

(13:19):
the, the, the, the secret to those who succeed is the is the
ability to start over again. And I think and so it was a
Spanish, but you know, reading that it was almost like a
propaganda that was part. You're eating it every day while
you're eating your breakfast. You know, it starts becoming
propaganda and stills in your brain.
And I think that's the key thingis, don't you know, yes, be

(13:41):
afraid, but manage that fear, take the risk, be courageous and
make sure you have a support network.
So if things don't go the way you think they're going to go,
there's always, you know, we canalways come back out of this,
right? You can always start over and
it's OK the word. Doesn't, no.
I think there's such a strong message, particularly here and
now because for young people going into the industry, I think

(14:02):
AI has changed it a lot where it's gone super competitive
because applications have gone up tenfold.
And so a lot of them are feelinglike really deflated, very
anxious. And you know, just that idea
about trying to keep going, persevering, being resilient.
So all of the things that that you said super important and.
I think another one which is important is stay curious.

(14:25):
You know, AI is a great one. I mean, hello, I come from, you
know, I'm born before Google. I was born before AOL, I was
born before iPhones and iPad. I mean, remember these things,
right? So I mean, if you think about my
generation, what we've had to learn from a technology
perspective, it's, I mean, it's,you have to stay curious.
So now I'm doing a lot of AI courses.

(14:45):
I'm asking my graduates and interests to teach me how to
prompt properly, you know, cryptthe way we started on
cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and all this, you know, so I think
stay curious and going back to why, you know, going back to
hedge funds and, you know, and, and, and doing all this and how
that background, you know, beingable to change, being able to
move, being able to apply those things.

(15:07):
But at the same time taking a step back and saying, oops, I
don't know nothing. I, I, I need to learn more.
I need to stay. And I think, you know, the world
for young people, I think it's even going to be more
astronomical than for me in terms of the learning curves,
right? So stay curious, you know, be
adaptable, be flexible, because there's one thing that's
guaranteed in life besides that is volatility and is change.

(15:30):
Yeah, yeah. Those are that is going to be
your life, except that you're going to it's you know, it's
going to be volatile and there will be change.
So learn how to interact with that volatility and how to
interact with that change. Such a great comment actually,
and it's something I hear when Ido this podcast.
I mean, you know, really experienced people like
yourself. I heard this just the other week
for someone else. The only constant is change is

(15:51):
what they said. And you've got to you have that
mentality. OK, well, let's talk a little
bit more about. So at the top of the show, I
said your job title, which is head of alternatives and fun
solutions, which might make sense to some people, but
probably doesn't make a great deal of clarity for for many
others. So perhaps you could break that
down for someone who's not familiar with the day-to-day and

(16:13):
what what does it mean? What do you do would be great.
So, so my role sits at a crucialintersection for lack of a
better word, between what we call the manufacturers of
investment products. So the hedge funds, the private
equity funds, real estate neutral funds, ETF.
So the manufacturers and the distributors on the other hand,
which includes the bankers, the investment specialists, so the

(16:33):
people who bring these products to their clients.
So I'm really in that intersection.
So they draw 2 circles. I'm in the middle, right?
And essentially what I'm doing is acting as an enabler and
organizer, helping to build a comprehensive product shelf
that's A1 outline of our clientsunique investment requirements
and goals and obviously staying within the regulatory
requirements, right? So strategic thinking to

(16:56):
identify and select the right mix of products, working with
the due diligence analyst to ensure the quality and
suitability of the investment options, working with legal and
compliance to make sure we can navigate, you know, this
evolving regulatory landscape. Working with the bankers to
understand and especially in private banking, you know, one

(17:17):
size doesn't fit all clients have different outcomes.
You know, some of them want to preserve the world, some of them
want to preserve their wealth plus have a, you know, a, a
income or a tick up or some of them really want to increase,
you know, the, the their capital, right?
So growth. So trying to figure out what
fits within these three buckets,for lack of a better word.
So it's what I really enjoy by my job is that you have to mix.

(17:40):
You have a careful balance between the technical expertise,
so understanding the intricaciesof internal investments, fund
structures, neo, etcetera, but also having strong communication
and leadership skills, right? So being able to translate
complex financial concepts into clear advice, you know,
fostering collaboration across internal teams to a certain
extent, breaking through and through and breaking down silos,

(18:04):
speaking to client facing professionals like the bankers
and investments specialist and obviously keeping an eye on the
markets and shifting client needs as well.
So, you know, in practice, you know, establish the marketing
activity of the products, you know, launch product.
And I used the word campaigns, but we don't really do campaigns
in big take. But when we launch a new

(18:26):
solution, a new idea, you know, we do roadshows of deep dives,
webinars, identify the demand from the front.
You know, what are the client needs or they're shifting.
Some regions are different. Going back to the global part.
You know, an Asian client may becompletely different than a
German client, than a French client I'm inventing here.
But you can find some different,some differences.

(18:49):
And understanding the regulatoryconstraints that we have and
that we can't do everything the same way everywhere we go, then
of course, they're providing support to the bankers.
So education, client meetings, portfolio reviews, after sales
support, right? So we talked about a red carpet
I did recently and this was actually a client in a specific

(19:09):
region who's coming into a liquidity event.
So they're going to start investing.
Their money's now become liquid.So they're really looking at how
do they invest their portfolios.These are entrepreneurs
understanding their mindset, their approach to risk, where
they're sitting so that we can'tdo everything there.
What's the goal, You know, how old are they?

(19:31):
There's our next generation working with the banker to
understand all these kind needs to then create a listically some
portfolio using alternatives andfunds.
And obviously I work with my equity colleagues and my fixed
income colleagues as well. So this is where I go in terms
of what working across internal teams, but also sometimes silos,
right? And it's like, hopefully that

(19:52):
explains it. Yeah, no, it's it starts to make
complete sense now as you're explaining kind of learning when
when you were studying actually,so international relations
wanted to work the UN and havingability to be really curious
about culture. And it sounds like they're
you're like, you've got to be such a chameleon to be able to
adapt, be empathetic and know the cultural nuances of

(20:15):
different people. It sounds like, you know, it's
really interesting because that's.
A lot of people go into school and think, so you learn all the
technicals, but everything you're sort of alluding to a big
chunk of that role. The success of it comes from
this interpersonal softer skills.
I wonder then, what's your advice of how people can learn

(20:35):
that that so sorts of skills? Yeah, that's think about this
one. You know, I think it's practice,
practice, practice and a bit observation as well.
So what do I mean by that? So if you think about, so you

(20:55):
think about, for example, the people you're around, you
surround, you know, it's a true belief who you you become, who
you surround yourself with, right?
You play to your to your to yourmarket, right to your to
whatever game you know, you're you're playing up hopefully.
So I think one of the key thingsis, is really looking at is is 1

(21:20):
creating the the environment to be able to see that in action,
right. So internships, you know,
graduate programs, these type ofthings.
Not yeah, sometimes you're goingto be doing, you know, some ugly
and boring work where you're just typing away, right?
But also be be curious to look around, see how people are

(21:41):
doing. Ask to be invited to meetings,
ask to see how, you know, peoplereact in certain things.
Obviously tuning into these typeof podcast, I think are
important as well, right? Even I watched some of your
previous podcast and learned some things as well, right?
I think it's, it's about, you know, look around and I think
back in my career, who taught methese skills, right?
I think some of it always these inbred.

(22:01):
I mean, I think we're born. There's a big part of our DNA,
but nature versus nurture, right?
So I think that there's the nature part, but the nurture is
really important when you're in an environment that allows you
to, to, to learn this emotional intelligence, to learn, you
know, these, these skill sets ofbeing, of, of being courageous,
being bold looking, looking, reading the room right, learning

(22:25):
to adapt depending on the situation you're in.
The jokes I cracked at the red carpet, I would never crack at
another client. And this is because I realized
they actually, you know, they, they were in a, they were, they
were open to some of my these jokes.
They were open to going a bit off script where you, so you
have to learn how to read that room and, and you follow the

(22:46):
lead. So in this case, I saw the
banker. So if I see he's cracking a
joke, I see he, you know, I can see, you know, where I can step
in, where I, you know, and again, so, but knowing where
the, where the line is, right, where that fine line is, you
know, never crossed that line, but knowing where that fine line
is as well. And I think this is practice,
right? It's practice, practice,
practice. You can watch, you know, all the
TV shows and hear from TV. You can see how people, you

(23:08):
know, on some TV shows, how do people react in certain
environment? You could see it in, in podcast,
like I said. So there's a lot of, especially
today, there's a lot of non in person ways to learn that I
didn't have when I was growing up, right.
But a big part of learning theseskills, I mean, I, I was lucky
to be surrounded by amazing private bankers.
So watching them in meetings, how they handle their clients,

(23:30):
how they handle conflict, how they handled, how they handled,
you know, influence, these things are really important.
Again, I was lucky that I, I hadbankers who would teach me these
things that I could, that I had the opportunity to observe this,
right. So try to put yourself in that
situation where you can observe,where you can learn.
And if you don't have it in the in the office, at least make
sure you're watching the podcast, you're watching those

(23:52):
TV shows, you know, these type of things that I think this is
really important. And again, it goes back to being
curious, right? Learning.
Always learning to be adaptable,flexible, etcetera.
Yeah, I think it's really interesting you said the word
observation and I absolutely agree.
Because if you think about, let's say the sports analogy,
like a professional elite athlete will watch tape of

(24:14):
themselves or their competition,they will understand what are
the strengths, what are the weaknesses?
What could I extract to put intomy game, into my toolbox.
But yet in all other places outside of sports, it's not that
systematic, particularly on the interpersonal side.
And people tend to look at it asthis kind of fairly abstract,
undefined thing. Whereas with technicals, it's

(24:35):
always like there's a right and a wrong answer that actually, I
think you can do the same with soft skills to a certain extent.
And this isn't to make it sound really manipulative or any or
strange. It's just how do you actually,
if someone's really great at speaking, what are the
components and what are the levers they're using to get to
that point where they can build empathy or excitement or read

(24:56):
the room sort of thing. So yeah, it was really
interesting the the observation side.
But one of the other things I was going to ask you about just
given your career history was handling pressure.
I guess there's, I guess there'spressure in a straight PNL
ownership sense, but there's also pressure in being in a
leadership position, managing people decisions.
Generally what's, you know, the client that you described

(25:20):
putting their trust in you or their liquidity event, you know,
they're coming to you for adviceand I'm sure they're going to
want to see results as well. So how do you handle pressure
now and then kind of thinking about it to encourage young
people to build some of the the frameworks to be better at that?
Yeah. So pressure is.
I mean, personally, I thrive in pressure.

(25:41):
I have a joke that if you ever have an emergency, call me.
There's one thing I know how to do with this and, and I laugh
when I say this, but I think there's, there's a lot behind
this and it has to do a lot withexperience, right?
I, I, I started, remember in 1994.
So I think we had the, what was 1994 was the Mexican peso
crisis. Remember you served me right?
98. We have the Russian
crisiswehavethe.com bubble. What else do we have?

(26:04):
We had great financial crisis obviously in Deutsche Bank in
2016. We had, it was termed the, the
DOJ League of 2016, which I think was one of the worst.
And what I noticed with each each time and, and we've had,
you know, other problems now, obviously COVID, etcetera.

(26:25):
I handle them, I, I take them less.
How do I say sometimes I don't take them less serious.
They're still taken seriously, but we have the tools in place.
And this is exactly what you're,you're alluding to.
Obviously, you know, learning isthat.
So I think having a clear and disciplined approach, being
grounded in practical and practicalities, but also
emotional resilience, right? And I think that's how you
handle pressure. And I think I'm a huge, huge fan

(26:47):
of Stephen Covey in the seven Habits of Highly effective
people. And specifically as Stephen
Covey's, I think this changed mylife.
When I read, you know, this theory of the three circles, the
circle of concern, the circle ofinfluence in the circle of
control, you know, circle of concern are things are out of
our control. We just, you know, the markets
are crashing. What can we control, right?
Unless we're an actual trader or, you know, the Fed back, the,

(27:10):
you know, chairman, we, we can'treally.
And even then, how much can theycontrol, right?
Let's be blunt. Then you have the circle of
influence, right? It's outside of our control, but
we can influence somehow, right?And then the circle of control,
our actions, our decisions, our preparation.
How do we, you know, how do we react to these things?
And even today, it's part of ourteam meetings and our day-to-day
interaction. So you can hear me on the floor

(27:31):
when someone's complaining to meor saying something, I'm like,
which circle are you in? To quickly put them in the
mindset, you know, are you in the circle of concern?
Are you in the circle of influence or the circle of
control? Where are we sitting?
Right, Because then you're stillallowed to complain, but
complain from that circle, knowing that if you're in the
circle of concern, there's nothing we can do.

(27:51):
We need to get it off our chest and try to figure out if can we
control the situation or can we control the influence.
And sometimes the only thing we control is ourselves is our
action reaction to certain things.
So I, I really talk about the practical part because there's,
there's that part, but this emotional resilience of
understanding where you sit in these circles, for lack of a
better word. And you know, and I think it's

(28:13):
really easy to become overwhelmed by concerns outside
of our control, market volatility, global economic
shifts, You know, it's very easyto fall into a victim mindset.
Like why me? Why is this happening to us?
The world is going crazy. And again, I go back to these
three circles. If you, when you put them in
these circles, it helps to, to give you a more, you'd get out

(28:34):
of your emotional side, more into your rational mind, right?
So you get out of the part of your brain that's fight or
flight to them create then to then really focus on, on, on
your energy and what lies in ourcontrols, right?
You know, actions, decisions, preparation, where can we exert
influence? And it helps create clarity and
focus. I think that's really the, the

(28:54):
key thing. So I, I really say learn the
three circles in your life will change and you can use it in
your personal life as well. It's not just a professional
life. I think the other part is
obviously preparation. I, I go back to preparation and
trust, but trusting in the data and trusting in your own
intuition because you know, the,the famous book Blink, right at

(29:15):
those 10,000 hours, you start becoming, it's internalized,
it's in your gut, right? It's that blink.
So trust your intuition. And that's in personal life as
well, right? And then the other thing is to
clip to secure boundaries. And we talked, I will talk about
boundaries a lot, but to maintain that in mental and
emotional balance, right? Differentiate, systematically

(29:36):
differentiate where to focus your attention.
You know, the same way we practice physical fitness.
Going back to your sports analogy, we, we really focus on
our physical fitness going to the gym.
What about our mental fitness? How often are we practicing the
mental fitness? And I think this is really
important and it's something that I didn't have when when I
was coming out and I made lots of mistakes and, you know,

(29:56):
burnouts and potential burnout. So now I really, really, really
focus on that mental fitness, three circles.
What's my focus? Where do I spend my energy?
And I think the last thing is, you know, having to be open to
diverse viewpoints. And really, in this day and age
where we're not allowed, societyis not allowing us to listen to

(30:18):
diverse viewpoints or give diverse viewpoints, It's even
more important, you know, read the book of that person you hate
understand where they're coming from.
And I've, I remember reading onebook, I wouldn't say which one.
I even threw it across the hallway.
You know, I was much, much younger because I really didn't
understand this. But I, I finished it and then,
you know, then I realized, OK, this is not, you know, I really

(30:39):
don't understand, but I understand better where they're
coming from. So again, going back to that
circle of influence and the onlything I can control there is my
reaction. You know, throwing a book was
not the smartest thing, but doing my reaction to that
particular subject matter, right?
So really practicing on your on focus, practicing your focus on
what's in your control, your influence, try to maintain helps

(31:02):
you can maintain that composure,decisiveness, having that, that
balance between emotional and and mental sides of your body,
really practicing mental fitnessand trying to transform these
challenges into manageable opportunities, right, for
growth. So, but it takes time, right?
And, and sometimes you're panicking.
You're like, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God.
So in just saying, what circle am I in?

(31:23):
Just giving yourself that gives you grounds you OK, what circle
am I in? We're allowed to be in the
circle of concern. I mean, but always being in the
circle of concern doesn't lead us to action, right?
So really trying to, to, to giveyourself those tools.
And this is what I use for me. But to find those tools as
you're growing, you, you other people may come across other
ways, right? But these were the ones.

(31:43):
And again, Stephen Colby, Steve,might, you know, change my life
when I came across this book, right, with these three circles.
Yeah. And as as you were kind of
explaining everything so far, kind of putting together all of
those skills you're mentioning and then also your journey and
giving. And it is somewhat
unconventional to the normal kind of I went to Stanford, did

(32:03):
an internship then went to here and there.
I just wondered then given this,the people skills that you have,
the importance of stakeholder navigation, because I think a
lot of students, particularly inthe early careers who are
listening to this that no one really talks about that.
It's always like the pursuit of getting.
It's like I got to, there's the door and it's the journey to the

(32:25):
door and smash the door down if I can get my foot in.
But then beyond the door, that'swhere actually your career then
begins. But not a lot of that is
actually spoken about. I feel like a lot of people are
left to learn on the job, which can then mean that it's quite a
long, protracted thing that probably Someone Like You,

(32:46):
having gone through what you've gone through, have experienced,
that could probably accelerate some of those learning.
So what does that mean in practice?
How does someone in their early career learn the nuances of the
workplace and how to manage different types of stakeholders?
Your colleague, your boss, your client all at the same time?
As you were speaking, I was thinking of the movie The Matrix

(33:09):
and that famous line. I forgot the colors, you know,
you could take the red pill, theblue.
I forgot the colors the pills were.
And that changes your life, you know, and, and I, and I'm
laughing. I don't know why that's the
thought that came to my head wasmanaging the matrix.
And I think it's really like, toa certain level, it's almost
like that, but it's not about taking a pill or, you know, it's
actually a little bit more nuanced than that.
And, and it's understanding the balancing the diverse and

(33:30):
sometimes competing interests. So the first thing is to, to
accept and identify when you have to do stakeholder
navigation 2 that they are diverse and competing interests.
And sometimes you're going to, and across clients, colleagues
in your leadership, each stakeholder has a unique
priority. They have their own concerns,

(33:51):
their own communication styles. And learning to manage these
dynamics is really where you canstart building your career
because then if you do it thoughtfully, you build trust
and you achieve shared goals, right?
So I think active listening, we go back to observation, active
listening, truly hearing and understanding what others needs

(34:11):
and value. Sometimes you have to understand
the need behind the need or the fear, right?
What is the hidden fear, the hidden desires?
So sometimes I come up with a, a, a, a change maker idea and
I'm, you know, and, and people start panicking because not only
am I changing, I'm, I'm coming with a new idea that's already,
but I'm probably going to changethe day-to-day work environment

(34:32):
of that person. And, and the real fear is I'm
going to lose my job because I can't do that job right.
So don't never say that right. I, I want to stay in my comfort
level. You know, I get amused as an
exaggeration here, but you have to think, you know, there,
there's a need there. There's something they're
saying, but then you really haveto understand the the hidden
fears and the desires that are behind, you know, is your boss

(34:55):
trying to get promoted to equitypartner?
Well, guess what, if that's the need that help him become an
equity partner. Is your boss trying to pick up
his son? And I use the word his son at
six, you know, everyday help himget out that door to to pick up.
And these are very small things,but you know, if you you

(35:16):
multiply them right, they becomebigger things.
So understanding the diverse andsometimes competing interests,
managing these dynamics, understanding the needs and the
value through active listening, building genuine relationships
across different functions and levels.
You know, so not staying in yourown little world, try to speak
to people in tax, try to speak to people in illegals, try to

(35:38):
speak to people in compliance, try to speak to people in media
relationship. And I use this as my example
because that's not my world, right?
Be open, be approachable, be prepared, be visible.
Visible is important. Let them know you want, which I
know becomes more of a challengewith work from home.
And I'm a huge fan of work from home, so I'm not saying we

(36:01):
should take away work from home,but I think visibility is also
important. But also be visible,
communicating your goals, your progress, what challenges see
and see. When you see, you can bring
something to the table to help that person with your chat with
their challenge or their capability, right?
And I think a big part of this, which is something no one
teaches us, we always think about managing up, right?

(36:22):
Managing with our supervisors, but what about managing down
with our junior colleagues, right?
Or managing sideways with our peers and cross functional
teams? I, you know, you can imagine the
power for me and the graduate and junior networks or even the
executive assistants. You know, when I, I work with
them and I talk with them, the amount of information I get on

(36:44):
the organization from the graduates in the junior network,
sometimes things that I don't even know what's going on,
right? Or an executive assistant
getting that meeting. That's almost impossible to get
just because you're nice to, youknow, you're being, you're,
you're having a conversation, you're, you're navigating this,
right? I mean, I remember when I was up
for my managing director interviews in Deutsche Bank and

(37:06):
I was six months pregnant, had to go to London for an interview
with the CEO, right? That's in a wealth management
CEO. I'm like, I don't want to take a
6:00 in the morning flight. So I called the PA, I explain my
situation, you know, woman power, maybe I don't know what
it was, but they put the, the interview for 2:00 so I could
take a late flight. You know, it, it was, again,

(37:26):
it's part of this, right? And that stakeholder navigation
is not just about getting your promotion and getting, you know,
something, but it's also about helping.
But it's really important not todo it.
Machiavellic, right? I think it's, you can't be
Machiavellic in the way you're doing because it, you'll see it
from a mile. I can see from a mile away when
someone's coming to me and you can see there and it's all I see
it, you know, be genuine, be authentic, be non gossipy,

(37:48):
right? It's not about gossiping and the
water cooler. Oh my God, did you see?
You know, it's also about understanding what's happening,
how the the place works, right? Again, seek opportunities to
work on cross departmental projects.
Request feedback on your interpersonal observation.
Observe how experienced colleagues do things, how
they're navigating, you know, managing the matrix as we sell

(38:12):
but build. This helps build credibility and
accelerate your career growth. So, and you're absolutely
correct. It's not something they teach us
early on in our careers. It's something I learned much
later in life, especially when you're starting to get
promotions and you know, you have the hard work, but you're
not getting those promotions hasa lot to do with your
visibility, has a lot to do withyour stakeholders.
They're the ones that are going to help you get those

(38:33):
promotions. Your hard work is the
foundation, but then you got to go to the next steps, right?
And, and how, how is that challenge when I think when we
spoke before you spell, you spoke quite powerfully about
being different both from an ethnicity and a gender
perspective. So given what we've just saying
about being visible and these sorts of things, is that
challenge, I'm not going to say harder, but different given some

(38:56):
of those, those things. And, and what advice do you
think you give to young people trying to to who might come from
minority or, or something of that that nature?
You know, it's, it's a great obviously being Latina, but more
importantly, a woman in a man's world, as they say.
And I never thought about it before until now, you know,
until it's become more popular in the press and, and not and,

(39:18):
and you know, we have, and thereis, you know, there is a
minority I'm not going to acknowledge, but I think being
different, whether it's your ethnicity, your gender, your
background, you know, I feel it's challenging in, in a lot of
environments, right? But it's also a strength.
And I think accepting that it isa strength and looking at it,
changing your perspective and looking through the lens of a
strength, I think changes the way you approach that, right.

(39:40):
And I go, I use the word victim mindset, right?
We're not victims, we're not theminority.
I hate that word. Guess what, we're different.
Yes. And it's fantastic.
So actually here have on my on my office, be bold or italic,
never regular. And it's a joke, you know,
because it reminds me also, right?
Be bold or italic, but don't be regular.
It's boring. But more importantly is, you
know, be proud of your identity,whatever that identity is,

(40:02):
embraced your difference. You bring unique perspectives
and you add value, right? And this is important,
especially in our environment, in the world we're living in.
But be authentic. I think authenticity is also is
critical, right? You can adapt to the cultural
norms of a room. You can read the room to build
rapport. But don't dilute or lose or

(40:23):
dilute yourself and you know another saying that I always
have is from Shakespeare's Hamlet play is to thy known self
be true and will leave a satellite.
Poloni's characters. The guy who said it was a bit
critical in medicine. But to thy own self be true is a
model that I've always had right.
I think we have to be true to ourselves and if we're true to
ourselves, then we're authentic selves in front of other people.

(40:45):
And if you have that, that you change the perspective that
being a minority or whatever is a strength, not a weakness, that
changes the way you you go through.
I go back to stakeholder management, bring build a strong
network of mentors and sponsors.These are the people who
understand your values, who advocate for you, who provide
guidance, who help you navigate some of these complex

(41:07):
landscapes. Right.
When I went from Deutsche Bank to Pigtag, it's very different.
Cultural environments, corporatecultural environment, so speak.
I had a lot of mentors that helped me to adapt.
So I know how I need to adapt, but still be me, right?
I'm still the person who's goingto crack a joke or go off script

(41:27):
because that's who I am, right? And don't hesitate to seek out
those champions, those mentors, those people who can also help
you open doors, who, like I said, will help me to navigate
these landscapes. I'm in this environment.
How should I dress, how should Ispeak?
How should I whatever I think. Also, recognizing your own trait

(41:49):
makes you noticeable. Recognizing your unique traits
make you noticeable in a crowd where many appears very similar.
So again, using that uniqueness as a, a strength, not as a, you
know, when I walk into a room full of men, the blonde females
going to be remembered. Now let's make sure that I
remembered for the right reasons, right?

(42:10):
This is what's key in our technical expertise, etcetera,
right? But this helps that visibility
can be a powerful asset. Leverage it with confidence and
courage, right? You can break conventions, you
can pave your path, but rememberthat that breaking that, you
know, when you're in there, they're going to notice who you
are, especially if it's something very visible, right?

(42:31):
I think, you know, we talk a lotabout diversity, but we need
diversity in the workplace. We need the diversity of minds,
diversity of thoughts, the diversity so decisions can be
made. And I mean, we talk about AI.
One of the things I was actuallyhaving a conversation in London
this week about AI. Is it diversity enough?
Are we all going to have herd mentality because we're all

(42:51):
prompting for the same thing. It's a very, you know, there's
behind the scenes. I won't go into all details, but
is this going to, is this, I think it's going to be even more
important to be diverse, to bring diversity to the table,
especially as we use AI, becauseeveryone's using AI, everyone's
getting the same outcomes and we're all kind of looking like
the same poster. So we need, I think now it's

(43:11):
even more important to set yourself, you know, how do you
set yourself aside out? How do you stand out of the
crowd? You know, and I think in this
enviving environment, you know, those who dare to bring new
ideas, who challenge the norms, they become the leaders of the
future, right? They're the ones who are going
to shape the future. And I think embracing your
difference, finding support, adapting wisely without

(43:35):
compromising authenticity, and having the courage to be a
change maker, these are the things that will help you thrive
in these environments, right? But again, you've heard me say
this, if you put AI through thispodcast, you're going to hear a
lot of words, courage, authenticity, find support,
stakeholder management, right? These things are really
important and I this is what I have found in my experience.

(43:56):
It's such an interesting thing that you said about AI and
diversity because I was reading another piece just this morning
about empathy. And actually as we start to
learn more and more on these these tools for productivity
gains and and so forth, but actually then the Super skills
become these skills that it's kind of like the world's gone
through this massive technological shift.

(44:16):
And obviously human behaviour isto get to go almost too far in
One Direction to then kind of snap back.
And yeah, I can see how not justdiversity, but empathy, a lot of
these skills you've talked aboutthat are critical for human
successful interactions and relationships are kind of off
tools and. Not things we're taught in

(44:37):
school. So we have to find ways to, to
get taught these things right, to find these skill sets.
And, and I think, you know, maybe the schooling will change,
but for now it's not. So it's podcast like yours And,
and you know, Ted talks, you know, I'm a huge fan of Ted
talks. They're short, quick.
I can watch them on the bus on the way to work.
This is how we learn these skills, right?

(44:59):
And I, and I think this is key, just making sure the awareness
that you need to have these skills.
And secondly, how do you find these skills right?
So on the, so my final two questions and these are much
more targeted towards the the student community.
And so from your perspective, given that you probably
interact, as you said, downward,so lots of grads, interns and so

(45:21):
forth. So if you were to distill them
down to some core characteristics of what is a
standout performer in their early career, what would you say
that those characteristics are? Yeah, so, and actually I do some
of the interviews also for the graduate program and think day.
So I, I really, you know, everyone has the same CV.

(45:41):
I'm not going. To Oh, it's going to be spoilers
coming. But, but I don't mean by the
way, I mean, these are super educated people.
I mean, I can't even compete. If I had to compete with the
young people today, I'd end up working at the supermarket.
I mean, let's be blunt here. The, the foundations, the
expertise, the educational foundation that that they, that
young people have today is amazing.

(46:03):
So how do you stand out, right? Because I go back to, you know,
our AI thing, right? How do you stand out if I have
100 applications or if you're inthe office now and there's 50
graduate students, graduate program, How do you stand out,
right? And I think I go back again to
the same thing, curiosity, adaptability, you know, a

(46:26):
continuous learning mindset, which means you ask questions,
you're not embarrassed to ask questions.
So I have a graduate now. I think he starts every census
with sorry to bother you, but I have a question.
And you know, I'm like, stop with the sorry to bother me.
You're allowed to bother me. The only dumb question is the
question not answered. You're not always going to have
people, you're not always going to work for people who like
that. Let's be, you know, let's be

(46:46):
also clear about this. So again, stay colder
navigation. You need to find those people
you can ask those questions to. So continuous learning mindset,
being able to observe new information, understanding
evolving market trends, embrace change with agility, right?
So that curiosity and adaptability, if I think,
especially with technological advancements and like we were

(47:07):
discussing earlier in the podcast, right, embracing change
with agility is very key. If you think of of technical,
you know, tech, the technical part remains important, but you
know, their ability to, like I said, learn rapidly, apply
knowledge in these complex situations to have those
critical reasonings. A+B.
You know, a lot of times that are like, what does algebra

(47:28):
teach you? I'm like, it teaches you to
think, you know, we're not goingto be solving algebraic
equations in the bank. I guarantee you that.
Plus we have lots of tools that do all the calculations for us.
But the thinking, the critical reasoning skills are important,
right? You go from here to here.
Why, how did the, how did A + B + C equal D?
You know, sometimes 2 + 2 does equal 5.
So that happen, right? So also effective communications

(47:53):
and, and, and again, the grad, my student, my intern who comes
to me says, you know, sorry to bother you.
I love that, right? But then when he asked me the
question, he clearly articulatesthe ideas he challenges, he's
listening actively. So the other day my boss came to
my desk and then French was giving me some instructions.
So when the my boss left my the great, the interests I overheard

(48:14):
is, you know, and then nicely, because my French is third
language. Are you OK with the French?
Did you miss anything? Which I thought was so
empathetic, you know, because I was like, actually, it's really
nice because in case I missed something, he was over here and
she was actively listening. He was engaging with clients and
colleagues, but engaging with me.
So again, now I have trust in him, right?
I, I, I, I have, I know I can collaborate with him.

(48:37):
I know if I'm travelling, I can send him an e-mail, right?
He can take care of things that I potentially wouldn't have
given him. By the way, he just started a
week ago. So let's be clear here, right?
So that idea to be to listen actively to articulate ideas,
you know, continuous learning mindset, observe new
information. And then going back to the, the,

(48:59):
the interpersonal skills. So the IQ, the EQ, excuse me,
you know, navigating, resolving conflicts.
How do you keep yourself motivated when you don't
understand what you're doing? How it doesn't, it doesn't fit
into the bigger operations. And then resilience, right?
Being able to not take things personal, separate your ego.
You know, we talked about feedback.
You know, when you get received,your egos are freshened to

(49:21):
receive the feedback. Separate that, right?
How do I, how do I know this is a perception?
How do I know this reality? It's not my ego.
It's not purposely, they're not trying to hurt me, right?
Understand that. And I had a boss who, who, who
combined it in three very distinct ways.
And actually, I saw him last week and I and I brought it up
and he was laughing because he had forgotten that he had taught

(49:41):
me this. And it's, you know, you need
that IQ, you need the EQ and youneed the BQ and I'll cut to
that. So the IQ is that technical
foundation, right? That's goes without saying.
The EQ is that emotional intelligence, right?
So curiosity, adaptability, emotional intelligence,
resilience, communication, collaboration, right?
That's all the EQ stuff and thenthe BQ and forgive my language,

(50:04):
but it's bloody quick, right? So be bloody quick.
And what does that mean is beingable to learn and perform
rapidly, you know, possess agility, you know, being able
to, to, it's not to be fast and give bad work, but be adaptable,
right? That BQ.
So IQEQBQ is really the way, youknow, and I always, you know, my
3 circles, I have my 3E QIQBQ, you know, and it's, and it's

(50:29):
something that I find quite funny, but you'll remember, it's
a mnemonic you remember because again, the date the world takes
over, you know, the day-to-day takes over.
And you know, if you don't take time to take a step back and
think about what circle I'm in, is this IQEQBQ?
You don't have these little catch phrases to put you into
the moment, into the now. You keep, you're just on the
roller coaster, right? You're on the hamster wheel and
you'll just keep going. So also take that moment to take

(50:51):
a step back, strategize, think, you know, have an off site with
yourself, right? I think that's really something,
again, I didn't learn when I wasyounger.
I learned it much later in life.But I think there are things
that I'm trying to teach my interns and my graduates going
forward. I'm just envisaging now the
PowerPoint slide I'm going to have for my next lecture.
Now I'm going to have the circles going.

(51:12):
There's going to be the acronymsflying around.
It's going to be cool. So, so maybe just just the last
one then, and this is a little, perhaps a little bit more
philosophical. So just to challenge you looking
retrospectively through through your career, because I think a
lot of the people again in our in our community, there's a lot
of pressure about right decisions I make now.

(51:35):
How's that going to influence mymy future?
How do I weight certain things, whether it's financial,
emotional and and so forth? So I just wondered, what's your
perspective on advice for building a meaningful,
fulfilling career sort of throughout?

(51:55):
Yeah, that's so I, I think there's, there's, I usually get
the question, one piece of advice and I'm like, it's
impossible. I first, I'm a storyteller, so
there's no way I could stick to one, at least three.
But life is a combination of things, right, that fulfill us
And, and I'll start off with, you know, again, stay bold and

(52:16):
curious. You know, this is to me is one
of those things, you know, it's career.
Your career is not about moving up in a ladder, right?
It's a linear ladder. It's like a a tube map, right?
You know, you know, you want to get to this place.
So you might have to take this tube, go down to this way and
then go around. You might have to change
stations somewhere along the line.
You may do a layover for a little bit of time.

(52:36):
You may go backwards to go forward.
So I think it's important to understand that it's not this
corporate ladder that you know, it's very, so you know, there is
a linear way and except that it is linear and it's about
continuous movement and progress, right?
And sometimes the, you know, thenontraditional path and the Amic
taste path is the fun path, right?
It gets you to another place, but you still get to a place

(52:57):
where you're supposed to be there.
So I think embracing the journeywith an open mind, so you, you
allows you to adapt, learn and evolve, right?
Don't strive for perfection. Focus on the progress, right?
You set backs as feedback, as learning opportunities going
back to your thing, you know, watch the watch your own video,
your own athletic video. OK, Oh, I missed that tackle.

(53:19):
I'm an American football player.I missed that tackle.
Oh, that guy was open. I should have thrown.
I didn't see, you know that different what?
Make your own videos of yourself, right, your mental
videos and make sure you you usethese learning setbacks as
learning opportunities. Building a strong network.
This is essential. You never know who's going to
open that door for you. In my case, it was a friend of

(53:39):
mine from the gym. And throughout my career,
there's been, I mean, the weirdest things you can possibly
imagine. Things just fall out and you're
like, how did that happen? You never know who's going to
and that network that's going tobe when I change banks meant
network helped me not only to change banks, but to adapt to
this new network. When you're working on a project
and you're trying to figure out how to other banks do it, that

(54:00):
network helps you. How do you do this in your bank?
How do you do you know it helps you with your projects as well,
right? So that that relationship is
important, but also is, is having a support network is also
part of your network, right? Professional and personal,
right? My, my son plays football and I
can tell you the amount of information I get on the
Saturday morning football pitch,it's astronomical.

(54:23):
And you're starting to create this network now out of the
football pitch that I never knewI had, right?
And it's, it's really fun at thesame time, which leads me to my
next one. Have fun, find joy in the work
and in the process, right? It's not just the achievements,
it's the journey that, you know,I, I, I, my husband laughs.
I enjoy planning my vacation more than I actually enjoy the

(54:46):
vacation itself. So it's that journey that that's
fun, right? So have fun during the journey.
2 that I really, really think are important, which I didn't
learn to later in my life. And I think it's really
important, especially to young people starting out as one, is
build your financial independence.
This is a critical foundation, you know, save early, manage

(55:06):
your finances freely because this finances wisely.
Excuse me, not freely, wisely. This frees you from being
financially constrained and gives you the freedom to make
career decisions based on growthand passion rather than
necessity. And I, I really, really can't
strive. Can't say this.
I mean, I found myself in situations where I'm like, I, I

(55:27):
want to leave, but I can't. And I think the financial
independence is such a critical thing, especially as you start
out, you know, you still hopefully you're not making
great money, but you're, you're not spending a lot of money or
you don't have the mortgages, you don't have the private
schools, you don't have any of this yet, yet.
So make sure that financial independence is there so you're
not hostage to, to situations because of you don't have the

(55:52):
financial independence. And the second, the last one,
the last one I'll bring is cultivate multiple identities.
And what do I mean by this? Don't let your sense of self be
solely tied to your job title oryour function, because there
will be times if you lose your job, things aren't going well.
And if your stuff with us is really tied up into that side of

(56:13):
your, your whole life will be impacted, right?
So embrace that broader identities, you know, maintain a
balance of those identities, various identities.
Obviously work is a big part of our lives, right?
But if you have other things going on, it helps.
So when the work part of your life is not going as you think
it should be going, when you're not having fun there anymore, at

(56:35):
least you're having fun here, right?
So make sure you have a diversified portfolio of
identities and fun. And we use a lot the whole word
life, work life balance and, andyou know what?
No, it's not work. Life balance is life balance and
work is part of your life. So erase that word from your
vocabulary. Do not use I need work life

(56:57):
balance. No, I need life balance and work
is a very big part of that pie chart, but it's part of it is
part of that life balance is notwork life balance, right?
You don't separate have those identities, you know.
So stay curious, be adaptable, build strong relationships,
protect your financial freedom, embrace your full identity and
enjoy the ride. You know, that's I think the the

(57:19):
key things I would say, wow, well.
What a finish that was. That was amazing.
No, I mean, it's so like coming to the end of this conversation,
like just your enthusiasm and your energy.
And I think a lot of people havea perception about people who
work generally in, in finance and hopefully anyone who listens
or watches, watches this and sees you and hears about you and

(57:41):
your story and just sees like that, just like your energy and,
and, and the feeling that you get when hearing you speak, it's
amazing. And so I hope it makes it more
inclusive for people to think, right.
Actually, this could be a potential sector that I can have
my my future. I think 22 points.
I think it really stuck out to me where really like when you
said about just flip that difference that your natural

(58:05):
instinct is that it's a negative.
I am an ethnic minority. Like for me, you know, I am
working class. I come from this certain
background. Like I, I must admit I did have
a chip on my shoulder very earlyin my career.
And I would say that was a big driving yeah, motivational
force. But I think as I've got older
and the advice I'd give is exactly like you did.
It's like turn that on its head and don't look at it as a threat

(58:28):
to see it as opportunity. I really love that, how you how
you said that and then the otherone, financial independence,
like very few people talk about that.
I wish I was, I wish I'd met youwhen I was 21 and got my first
bonus. But yeah, I wish I bought a
London property many years ago, but that was sadly it wasn't the

(58:48):
case. But but yeah, I think that's
such an important thing. What, like what you said, to
have the freedom to choose and have options rather than through
necessity. I think that's what we're all
striving for in life in generally.
So that was amazing. Romy, thank you so much for
giving up your time to join me. And yeah, thank you very much.
And and see you again soon. Definitely.

(59:09):
Thank you very much. I really, I really, really
enjoyed it.