November 19, 2025 • 18 mins
Are you a student or early-career professional trying to decide between a bulge bracket or boutique investment bank? In this episode of the AmplifyMe Market Maker podcast, Anthony Cheung and Silvia Magni break down what really sets these firms apart, from business models and deal flow to team structure and day-to-day responsibilities.
They also explore how each path impacts your training, career development, and how to tailor your interview approach. Whether you're drawn to the global reach of a bulge bracket or the hands-on experience of a boutique, this episode helps you choose the right fit and position yourself for success.
(00:00) Intro & Episode Overview
(01:42) Defining Bulge Brackets vs. Boutiques
(03:48) Business Models & Services
(06:59) Deal Flow Differences
(09:21) Team Structure & Responsibility
(11:30) Culture & Career Development
(15:08) Interview Tips & Final Thoughts
(17:20) Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, and welcome back to the Market Maker podcast.
Today we are unpacking an often misunderstood topic for students
exploring investment banking specifically, and that is the
real differences between bulge brackets and elite boutiques and
boutiques in general. We're going to breakdown how
each model actually works, from business lines and deal flow to
(00:21):
team structure, culture, career development, and also share how
to position yourself in interviews depending on which
type of firm you're looking to target in future.
So whether you're drawn to the global scale of a of a bold
bracket or the early responsibility of an elite
boutique, I'm joined by Sylvia to help give us a bit of a
(00:41):
framework to understand the trade-offs and where you might
thrive best. Hey, hi, everyone.
Nice to see you all again. So yeah, it's a really hot
topic. I believe I've been going around
universities over the past monthor so delivering some of our M&A
sessions or our corporate finance sessions.
And every time I finish my events, students are coming up
(01:02):
to my desk and they're starting asking me some questions.
And there is one that is always there literally all the time,
which is should I choose a bolt bracket or should I choose a
boutique instead? And the reality is like, as you
will see, I'm not going to give you 1 answer.
I will not tell you you need to choose this one or the other
one. But we can find out together
(01:24):
why. Which is basically you should be
focusing more on your feet because it will be very
different the type of environment you can find in one
or the other. And so even in return your
day-to-day. So let's try to unpack it today.
Yeah. So maybe a good place to start
then is is the definition how, how do you describe each one of
these different areas? Yeah, absolutely.
So starting from the bulls bracket, you can think about
(01:45):
this as JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Staley, Bank of
America, all these global banks that provide our range of very
different services. So even if here we're talking
about M&A mainly, they will not be institutions that provide
only M&A advisory. They are going to have some
trading desks, some equity and debt capital markets divisions.
(02:07):
They're going to lend money to firms.
So basically do you can see themas one stop shop that can
provide you with very varied services.
On the other hand, when we thinkabout boutiques and especially
elite boutiques, these will be firms that are very focused
instead on purely advisory. They are specialist in this
area. And so you would not go to
(02:29):
analytic boutique if you are going to ask to lend some money
for example. So this will basically be the
starting point really the definition as we said that will
draw what is the key difference between the two.
And in terms of the boutiques, of course, you can find some
different categories. In a sense you can find elite
boutiques, the likes of Evercore, Lazart, etcetera,
(02:51):
Jeffreys and then you can find more middle market firms that
would be usually a little bit smaller, but still working on
really good quality deals. Yeah.
Just on that point, when someonesays mid market because that's
another kind of jargon word, what are they?
What do they mean is that mid market is all banks.
Oregon mid market is A to smaller boutique non elite.
(03:13):
Yeah. In this context we are talking
more about these boutique firms that are the non elite, which
again doesn't really mean they're not working on some
really interesting deals. But usually what you will find
is that they would have a bit more of a sectoral focus for
example and they would not be working on cross borders ultra
mega deals for example because also of the their actual size
(03:35):
and the manpower that they have usually.
That makes sense. OK, So maybe just go a layer
deeper and look at let's have a look at the business models and
the types of services that they they provide.
So maybe we can start with the bulge bracket?
Yeah, absolutely. So again, we started by saying
that our Bush bracket provide a range of different services to
their clients. So they will be earning fees not
(03:58):
just in terms of their M&A fees,but those from equity and debt
capital markets desk and even from financing, which is a
really big part of it because essentially these huge
institutions and very big large balance sheets and this enables
them to be able to lend money tocompanies.
So basically if you are looking to acquire a firm and you need a
(04:19):
lot of money in order to being able to raise that cash to do
your acquisition, you would usually go towards Abuja Bracket
Bank. Let's think about for example,
Micro, the Microsoft and Activision deal.
In that case, there was definitely a lot of money to be
raised in order to be able to complete acquisition as it was a
(04:39):
huge one. I'm pretty sure that everyone
listen to Sposkas heard about itand also was really regulatory
heavy as well. It was a huge transaction that
needed some expertise even outside of the pure advisory
space, and so why it's been really crucial to select an
important bull to bracket bank as key advisor for this one.
(05:01):
Yeah, I was just having a quick look because I think I remember
talking about a deal recently and it was the JP Morgan and its
involvement with the LBO, the biggest one in history, I think
it was, isn't it where they theyleveraged buyout of Electronic
Arts, That was it with the private players and they're
financing part of the deal, they're providing advisory
(05:22):
really multifaceted in that way.Yeah, exactly.
It's pretty much all those transactions here which you do
not only need these specialist expertise on pure banking, on
pure advisory, but you also needto raise some money, you need
the financing, and then you needsome regulatory expertise as
well. In that case, if you're choosing
a global bulge bracket, that oneinstitution will be able to
(05:45):
provide you with all these different types of services.
So it really comes down then to the management team of X company
deciding on what exactly is it that they need, what is it they
want to do? Is it really super specific?
Is there any conflicts of interests exactly things of that
nature? Would that be right?
Yeah, exactly. Because if you think instead, on
(06:06):
the other hand, about some transactions in which financing
might not be so crucial and instead you really care about
independence, about objectivity,often companies would choose a
boutique or an elite boutique for this type of transaction
because they want that independence.
They want to make sure that there is no conflict of
interest. What a boutique bank could say
(06:27):
is like we are conflict free because we are not trying to
lend you money, we're not tryingto upsell you some other
services. We are here just purely to
provide you our advisory as experts in the field.
So, yeah, just interested then maybe .3 around deal flow.
So how does that differ? I'm assuming a lot of the bulge
(06:48):
brackets work on these mega deals.
So is it a case of fewer deals, bigger deals and then the
boutiques the opposite? Or is it a bit of a mix and
match? Yeah, exactly.
So for the bulge bracket case, first of all, they tend to
really dominate the mega deal space.
And this again comes just very barely from the manpower that
(07:10):
they have. Often they will work on
cross-border M&A transactions. So you will have teams from
different countries actually collaborating together for this
deal. They will work on like huge IP
OS, for example, the ARM IPO, what could be one good example
has been like a huge one. And instead when you think about
boutiques, their hedge would really be that focus.
(07:31):
So they would tend to win mandates where they have a
really big expertise in a specific sectors or also in
terms of relationships. Because usually senior bankers
at elite boutiques will have these really long standing
relationships with some companies.
And so it is also that deep expertise plus relationship side
(07:51):
of things that would enable themto win these deals, which again
could be some really big ones. You will often find actually
elite boutiques and bullshit brackets fighting for the same
very very very big deals. How does that work when they're
fighting for the same deals whenyou might have one team that's
got 30 people, another team that's got 5 people?
(08:12):
Yeah. Again, I think it's a little bit
of a balance. And again, about what the
company is really seeking. If it is that independence,
objectivity, they might want a smaller team working on the
deal. Or if instead they really need
expertise and a lot of differentfields, maybe from a regulatory
perspective, maybe they need some financing.
(08:32):
And so then well, you would probably benefit more from a
wider organization and from a wider team working on your deal.
And something that you just mentioned, it's really
interesting because reality is that from a pure how it works
day-to-day perspective, when youhave those mega deals in a bulge
bracket, you will be maybe 1 of 30 analysts working on this
(08:52):
transaction, whereas instead youcould be one of free, as I said,
in a boutique. And so these actually also start
given an additional layer of making you feel like what is the
difference for you as an analystin your day-to-day job instead
of how it works and what your task will be etcetera.
Yeah. So, so maybe we could go into
that as a good segue then like the division of responsibility,
(09:15):
the dynamics of the team. So so how?
How does that differ between a larger or leaner team?
Yeah, I would say if you want toreally find a couple of keywords
that represent one or the other,you can really benefit from
scale in terms of bulge brackets. 1.
Instead, you would have a huge exposure in the context of a
(09:36):
boutique on a lit boutique because indeed deal teams are
definitely larger instead of a bulge bracket and often more
layered, which also means there is a bit more structure.
So you will have your analysts and the reporting to associates
that are reporting to the VPS that are reporting to it at the
MD's for example. So you have these more
structural hierarchical system in a way.
(09:58):
And you would be, for example, one analyst which becomes really
focused. We're really specialized because
you might be the analysts alwaysworking on the same part of a
model, for example. That is your expertise.
And then there will be another analyst working another part of
the model, another one working more on the PowerPoint for
example, etcetera, etcetera. Instead, when we're looking at
(10:19):
at least it's it's definitely leaner in terms of team size.
And this also means that usuallyanalysts or associates will
always be involved with all the parts of the transaction.
You will all be working on same model, you will all be
collaborating in order to put together the materials.
Often you can have like analystsand definitely associates being
(10:39):
like on the client calls, joining them together with the
MD's. So you could see a bit of a more
flat structure in a sense. And you get a different exposure
in the two experiences because of course you become really
specialized to really like the muster of that area that you're
covering in terms of the pulch bracket 1 instead you would have
exposure to very different type of things if you're working for
(11:02):
I would take. Yeah.
So, so maybe you could explain to me then a little bit more
about how that translates then into the actual work environment
and the culture. I'm assuming that there's a lot
of shared similarities of core competencies, so financial
modelling, attention to detail, hard working, all that good
(11:23):
stuff. But then what?
What differentiates them though,beyond those core skills?
Yeah, no, definitely. And again, also because you
would be empowered with some really excellent skill sets in
both opportunities. They are just different in a
sense. And it's different your
day-to-day experience because asI said, culture will be
different. And it's not to say 1 is good
(11:44):
and one is bad of course. It's more where you thrive more.
If it is in a huge more structural organization, that's
on the other hand can give you alot of breath.
Or is that if you enjoy working more in a small team where you
have really good exposure early on, even thinking about when you
join, usually you receive some trainings.
(12:05):
So the trainings for Abuja bracket will usually be like 6
weeks. You, all the cohorts from
different offices all go together in New York or in
London and they received this very long type of structure to
training. Whereas if you think about
boutiques, they, they will receive some training, of
course, but most of it is reallylearning on the job.
(12:26):
So if you really like to be thrown in the deep and that was
definitely would be definitely be where it thrive most because
again, it's less structural, butit's more on the job from day
one. You could be working outside
your MD on a very important deal, for example.
So I know that talking to students often now feel quite a
(12:46):
degree of pressure between the selection that they make at a
very early stage. Even an internship, for example,
might define them down a certainroute that they can then no
longer move across from bulge bracket to boutique or vice
versa. So what does that development
from a career perspective look like if you go down each route?
(13:07):
And is there a degree of flexibility to move between?
Yeah, I would not say that it really defines you.
Like you can start in a boot bracket and then decide to move
to a boutique or literally the opposite.
What is really important is to understand, for example, if what
is that you value most. So if, for example, you would
definitely like to move around alittle bit, whether it is from
(13:30):
one region to another region or whether you would like to move,
for example, for M&A to CM. If you want to provide yourself
that flexibility. Because maybe when you've just
finished Uni, you're going to your first role, you're not that
sure yet that that will be your life.
Basically, that is much easier in the context of a book
bracket. And again, it's because of like
their size, because of how much more structure they are.
(13:52):
It is way easier move around from one office to another, from
one division to another in this context with respect to whether
you are in an elite boutique. But again, the on the other
hand, you really get that good depth of understanding if you
work in a boutique because thesealso allow you to be less
(14:13):
specialized and from day one to work on a lot of different
things, a lot of different activities.
And so this also keeps you with something really important
because if you're looking to move down to bulge bracket or
you're looking to move like wherever could be another area,
private equity, for example, youhave received that very full on
(14:33):
not six weeks trainings maybe, but on the desk everyday
mentorship from your MD and ability to take on your
responsibility, be accountable, but also have a lot of exposure
from day one, which instead you might have a little bit less,
especially when you're starting as an intern or as an analyst in
a Polish bracket. OK, well, you started the
(14:57):
conversation by saying lots of students ask you questions about
this. I'm sure lots of them finish by
asking you what are some tips for if they're interviewing for
for one or the other. So what would you say in
response to that? Yeah, that's a very good point
also because I believe that it'sreally hard whenever you're
doing your interview and the question that come up to you is
(15:18):
why this bank or why able to rocket with respect to an elite?
Like it's really hard to answer this question.
It's like, I feel for students and I remember back in the days
when I was applying, and I thinkthat the very important thing is
basically aligning what is your decision to your feet basically,
and trying to be a little bit balanced if it makes sense.
Of course, you don't want to give them a too political
(15:40):
answer, basically not saying anything.
But at the same time, you also don't want to go in there and
say something like I prefer boutiques because they have
better hours. First of all, it's not always
true, I would say. So be careful with that.
And also, you don't really want to just position that as the
reason why you're deciding because, well, it's of course a
(16:01):
strong decision from one perspective.
If you value your own free time and he wanted to do other things
outside of work. But from the point of view of
the investment bank, he would not go down to do well, I would
say. And on the other hand, you also
don't want to go to a booty bracket and say, Oh yes, I want
this because I want the prestigeor just something like that.
I want the money. You should instead emphasize why
(16:24):
that is a type of environment where you think that you could
drive most to, to drive better and that is really for you.
So for example, if you're choosing A boutique, you could
talk about like the specialization, the
independence, the type of exposure that you get really
early on, the fact that you really enjoy working on smaller
type of teams, taking on your responsibilities.
And instead, if you're interviewing for a bulge
(16:45):
bracket, you can talk about the global scale, the chance to work
across different type of products to move across regions.
This global reach and structure,even like the learning
opportunities, I would say because personally, for example,
when I started working, I went forward bracket and something
super important for me very early on was just like getting
as many learning opportunities as I could.
(17:07):
And so there's more structural trainings and opportunities.
Also to look around different areas was super important for
me. Great.
Cool. Well, I was taking some brief
notes while you were talking. So to kind of summarize then I
think you did a great job there just wrapping really.
But the main thing to remember, bulge brackets give you sort of
(17:27):
breadth, global coverage, capital markets exposure, formal
training. You mentioned there the flip
side, boutiques, depth responsibility, hands on
advisory experience from day one.
So thinking about whether you value the structure or autonomy
brand or exposure and entailing your interviews to show why that
(17:47):
platform fits your goals seems seems to make the most sense.
So reminder to anyone listening,if you enjoyed Sylvia's
explanation there, then we did record a previous episode which
was entitled M and a interview Techniques where Sylvia, I know
you did a really good job just breaking down how to describe
talking about a deal because that's often one of the hurdles
(18:08):
you need to jump when you're going through the application
process for IB. So I will put the link to that
in the show notes. But any questions at all or any
comments that people have, any future episodes for Sylvia that
you would like me to put some questions to her?
Let us know in the comments section to be happy to do so.
But thank you, Sylvia. Appreciate it.
Yeah. Thank you and and thanks
(18:28):
everyone. Bye bye.
Hello, and welcome back to the Market Maker podcast.
Today we are unpacking an often misunderstood topic for students
exploring investment banking specifically, and that is the
real differences between bulge brackets and elite boutiques and
boutiques in general. We're going to breakdown how
each model actually works, from business lines and deal flow to
(00:21):
team structure, culture, career development, and also share how
to position yourself in interviews depending on which
type of firm you're looking to target in future.
So whether you're drawn to the global scale of a of a bold
bracket or the early responsibility of an elite
boutique, I'm joined by Sylvia to help give us a bit of a
(00:41):
framework to understand the trade-offs and where you might
thrive best. Hey, hi, everyone.
Nice to see you all again. So yeah, it's a really hot
topic. I believe I've been going around
universities over the past monthor so delivering some of our M&A
sessions or our corporate finance sessions.
And every time I finish my events, students are coming up
(01:02):
to my desk and they're starting asking me some questions.
And there is one that is always there literally all the time,
which is should I choose a bolt bracket or should I choose a
boutique instead? And the reality is like, as you
will see, I'm not going to give you 1 answer.
I will not tell you you need to choose this one or the other
one. But we can find out together
(01:24):
why. Which is basically you should be
focusing more on your feet because it will be very
different the type of environment you can find in one
or the other. And so even in return your
day-to-day. So let's try to unpack it today.
Yeah. So maybe a good place to start
then is is the definition how, how do you describe each one of
these different areas? Yeah, absolutely.
So starting from the bulls bracket, you can think about
(01:45):
this as JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Staley, Bank of
America, all these global banks that provide our range of very
different services. So even if here we're talking
about M&A mainly, they will not be institutions that provide
only M&A advisory. They are going to have some
trading desks, some equity and debt capital markets divisions.
(02:07):
They're going to lend money to firms.
So basically do you can see themas one stop shop that can
provide you with very varied services.
On the other hand, when we thinkabout boutiques and especially
elite boutiques, these will be firms that are very focused
instead on purely advisory. They are specialist in this
area. And so you would not go to
(02:29):
analytic boutique if you are going to ask to lend some money
for example. So this will basically be the
starting point really the definition as we said that will
draw what is the key difference between the two.
And in terms of the boutiques, of course, you can find some
different categories. In a sense you can find elite
boutiques, the likes of Evercore, Lazart, etcetera,
(02:51):
Jeffreys and then you can find more middle market firms that
would be usually a little bit smaller, but still working on
really good quality deals. Yeah.
Just on that point, when someonesays mid market because that's
another kind of jargon word, what are they?
What do they mean is that mid market is all banks.
Oregon mid market is A to smaller boutique non elite.
(03:13):
Yeah. In this context we are talking
more about these boutique firms that are the non elite, which
again doesn't really mean they're not working on some
really interesting deals. But usually what you will find
is that they would have a bit more of a sectoral focus for
example and they would not be working on cross borders ultra
mega deals for example because also of the their actual size
(03:35):
and the manpower that they have usually.
That makes sense. OK, So maybe just go a layer
deeper and look at let's have a look at the business models and
the types of services that they they provide.
So maybe we can start with the bulge bracket?
Yeah, absolutely. So again, we started by saying
that our Bush bracket provide a range of different services to
their clients. So they will be earning fees not
(03:58):
just in terms of their M&A fees,but those from equity and debt
capital markets desk and even from financing, which is a
really big part of it because essentially these huge
institutions and very big large balance sheets and this enables
them to be able to lend money tocompanies.
So basically if you are looking to acquire a firm and you need a
(04:19):
lot of money in order to being able to raise that cash to do
your acquisition, you would usually go towards Abuja Bracket
Bank. Let's think about for example,
Micro, the Microsoft and Activision deal.
In that case, there was definitely a lot of money to be
raised in order to be able to complete acquisition as it was a
(04:39):
huge one. I'm pretty sure that everyone
listen to Sposkas heard about itand also was really regulatory
heavy as well. It was a huge transaction that
needed some expertise even outside of the pure advisory
space, and so why it's been really crucial to select an
important bull to bracket bank as key advisor for this one.
(05:01):
Yeah, I was just having a quick look because I think I remember
talking about a deal recently and it was the JP Morgan and its
involvement with the LBO, the biggest one in history, I think
it was, isn't it where they theyleveraged buyout of Electronic
Arts, That was it with the private players and they're
financing part of the deal, they're providing advisory
(05:22):
really multifaceted in that way.Yeah, exactly.
It's pretty much all those transactions here which you do
not only need these specialist expertise on pure banking, on
pure advisory, but you also needto raise some money, you need
the financing, and then you needsome regulatory expertise as
well. In that case, if you're choosing
a global bulge bracket, that oneinstitution will be able to
(05:45):
provide you with all these different types of services.
So it really comes down then to the management team of X company
deciding on what exactly is it that they need, what is it they
want to do? Is it really super specific?
Is there any conflicts of interests exactly things of that
nature? Would that be right?
Yeah, exactly. Because if you think instead, on
(06:06):
the other hand, about some transactions in which financing
might not be so crucial and instead you really care about
independence, about objectivity,often companies would choose a
boutique or an elite boutique for this type of transaction
because they want that independence.
They want to make sure that there is no conflict of
interest. What a boutique bank could say
(06:27):
is like we are conflict free because we are not trying to
lend you money, we're not tryingto upsell you some other
services. We are here just purely to
provide you our advisory as experts in the field.
So, yeah, just interested then maybe .3 around deal flow.
So how does that differ? I'm assuming a lot of the bulge
(06:48):
brackets work on these mega deals.
So is it a case of fewer deals, bigger deals and then the
boutiques the opposite? Or is it a bit of a mix and
match? Yeah, exactly.
So for the bulge bracket case, first of all, they tend to
really dominate the mega deal space.
And this again comes just very barely from the manpower that
(07:10):
they have. Often they will work on
cross-border M&A transactions. So you will have teams from
different countries actually collaborating together for this
deal. They will work on like huge IP
OS, for example, the ARM IPO, what could be one good example
has been like a huge one. And instead when you think about
boutiques, their hedge would really be that focus.
(07:31):
So they would tend to win mandates where they have a
really big expertise in a specific sectors or also in
terms of relationships. Because usually senior bankers
at elite boutiques will have these really long standing
relationships with some companies.
And so it is also that deep expertise plus relationship side
(07:51):
of things that would enable themto win these deals, which again
could be some really big ones. You will often find actually
elite boutiques and bullshit brackets fighting for the same
very very very big deals. How does that work when they're
fighting for the same deals whenyou might have one team that's
got 30 people, another team that's got 5 people?
(08:12):
Yeah. Again, I think it's a little bit
of a balance. And again, about what the
company is really seeking. If it is that independence,
objectivity, they might want a smaller team working on the
deal. Or if instead they really need
expertise and a lot of differentfields, maybe from a regulatory
perspective, maybe they need some financing.
(08:32):
And so then well, you would probably benefit more from a
wider organization and from a wider team working on your deal.
And something that you just mentioned, it's really
interesting because reality is that from a pure how it works
day-to-day perspective, when youhave those mega deals in a bulge
bracket, you will be maybe 1 of 30 analysts working on this
(08:52):
transaction, whereas instead youcould be one of free, as I said,
in a boutique. And so these actually also start
given an additional layer of making you feel like what is the
difference for you as an analystin your day-to-day job instead
of how it works and what your task will be etcetera.
Yeah. So, so maybe we could go into
that as a good segue then like the division of responsibility,
(09:15):
the dynamics of the team. So so how?
How does that differ between a larger or leaner team?
Yeah, I would say if you want toreally find a couple of keywords
that represent one or the other,you can really benefit from
scale in terms of bulge brackets. 1.
Instead, you would have a huge exposure in the context of a
(09:36):
boutique on a lit boutique because indeed deal teams are
definitely larger instead of a bulge bracket and often more
layered, which also means there is a bit more structure.
So you will have your analysts and the reporting to associates
that are reporting to the VPS that are reporting to it at the
MD's for example. So you have these more
structural hierarchical system in a way.
(09:58):
And you would be, for example, one analyst which becomes really
focused. We're really specialized because
you might be the analysts alwaysworking on the same part of a
model, for example. That is your expertise.
And then there will be another analyst working another part of
the model, another one working more on the PowerPoint for
example, etcetera, etcetera. Instead, when we're looking at
(10:19):
at least it's it's definitely leaner in terms of team size.
And this also means that usuallyanalysts or associates will
always be involved with all the parts of the transaction.
You will all be working on same model, you will all be
collaborating in order to put together the materials.
Often you can have like analystsand definitely associates being
(10:39):
like on the client calls, joining them together with the
MD's. So you could see a bit of a more
flat structure in a sense. And you get a different exposure
in the two experiences because of course you become really
specialized to really like the muster of that area that you're
covering in terms of the pulch bracket 1 instead you would have
exposure to very different type of things if you're working for
(11:02):
I would take. Yeah.
So, so maybe you could explain to me then a little bit more
about how that translates then into the actual work environment
and the culture. I'm assuming that there's a lot
of shared similarities of core competencies, so financial
modelling, attention to detail, hard working, all that good
(11:23):
stuff. But then what?
What differentiates them though,beyond those core skills?
Yeah, no, definitely. And again, also because you
would be empowered with some really excellent skill sets in
both opportunities. They are just different in a
sense. And it's different your
day-to-day experience because asI said, culture will be
different. And it's not to say 1 is good
(11:44):
and one is bad of course. It's more where you thrive more.
If it is in a huge more structural organization, that's
on the other hand can give you alot of breath.
Or is that if you enjoy working more in a small team where you
have really good exposure early on, even thinking about when you
join, usually you receive some trainings.
(12:05):
So the trainings for Abuja bracket will usually be like 6
weeks. You, all the cohorts from
different offices all go together in New York or in
London and they received this very long type of structure to
training. Whereas if you think about
boutiques, they, they will receive some training, of
course, but most of it is reallylearning on the job.
(12:26):
So if you really like to be thrown in the deep and that was
definitely would be definitely be where it thrive most because
again, it's less structural, butit's more on the job from day
one. You could be working outside
your MD on a very important deal, for example.
So I know that talking to students often now feel quite a
(12:46):
degree of pressure between the selection that they make at a
very early stage. Even an internship, for example,
might define them down a certainroute that they can then no
longer move across from bulge bracket to boutique or vice
versa. So what does that development
from a career perspective look like if you go down each route?
(13:07):
And is there a degree of flexibility to move between?
Yeah, I would not say that it really defines you.
Like you can start in a boot bracket and then decide to move
to a boutique or literally the opposite.
What is really important is to understand, for example, if what
is that you value most. So if, for example, you would
definitely like to move around alittle bit, whether it is from
(13:30):
one region to another region or whether you would like to move,
for example, for M&A to CM. If you want to provide yourself
that flexibility. Because maybe when you've just
finished Uni, you're going to your first role, you're not that
sure yet that that will be your life.
Basically, that is much easier in the context of a book
bracket. And again, it's because of like
their size, because of how much more structure they are.
(13:52):
It is way easier move around from one office to another, from
one division to another in this context with respect to whether
you are in an elite boutique. But again, the on the other
hand, you really get that good depth of understanding if you
work in a boutique because thesealso allow you to be less
(14:13):
specialized and from day one to work on a lot of different
things, a lot of different activities.
And so this also keeps you with something really important
because if you're looking to move down to bulge bracket or
you're looking to move like wherever could be another area,
private equity, for example, youhave received that very full on
(14:33):
not six weeks trainings maybe, but on the desk everyday
mentorship from your MD and ability to take on your
responsibility, be accountable, but also have a lot of exposure
from day one, which instead you might have a little bit less,
especially when you're starting as an intern or as an analyst in
a Polish bracket. OK, well, you started the
(14:57):
conversation by saying lots of students ask you questions about
this. I'm sure lots of them finish by
asking you what are some tips for if they're interviewing for
for one or the other. So what would you say in
response to that? Yeah, that's a very good point
also because I believe that it'sreally hard whenever you're
doing your interview and the question that come up to you is
(15:18):
why this bank or why able to rocket with respect to an elite?
Like it's really hard to answer this question.
It's like, I feel for students and I remember back in the days
when I was applying, and I thinkthat the very important thing is
basically aligning what is your decision to your feet basically,
and trying to be a little bit balanced if it makes sense.
Of course, you don't want to give them a too political
(15:40):
answer, basically not saying anything.
But at the same time, you also don't want to go in there and
say something like I prefer boutiques because they have
better hours. First of all, it's not always
true, I would say. So be careful with that.
And also, you don't really want to just position that as the
reason why you're deciding because, well, it's of course a
(16:01):
strong decision from one perspective.
If you value your own free time and he wanted to do other things
outside of work. But from the point of view of
the investment bank, he would not go down to do well, I would
say. And on the other hand, you also
don't want to go to a booty bracket and say, Oh yes, I want
this because I want the prestigeor just something like that.
I want the money. You should instead emphasize why
(16:24):
that is a type of environment where you think that you could
drive most to, to drive better and that is really for you.
So for example, if you're choosing A boutique, you could
talk about like the specialization, the
independence, the type of exposure that you get really
early on, the fact that you really enjoy working on smaller
type of teams, taking on your responsibilities.
And instead, if you're interviewing for a bulge
(16:45):
bracket, you can talk about the global scale, the chance to work
across different type of products to move across regions.
This global reach and structure,even like the learning
opportunities, I would say because personally, for example,
when I started working, I went forward bracket and something
super important for me very early on was just like getting
as many learning opportunities as I could.
(17:07):
And so there's more structural trainings and opportunities.
Also to look around different areas was super important for
me. Great.
Cool. Well, I was taking some brief
notes while you were talking. So to kind of summarize then I
think you did a great job there just wrapping really.
But the main thing to remember, bulge brackets give you sort of
(17:27):
breadth, global coverage, capital markets exposure, formal
training. You mentioned there the flip
side, boutiques, depth responsibility, hands on
advisory experience from day one.
So thinking about whether you value the structure or autonomy
brand or exposure and entailing your interviews to show why that
(17:47):
platform fits your goals seems seems to make the most sense.
So reminder to anyone listening,if you enjoyed Sylvia's
explanation there, then we did record a previous episode which
was entitled M and a interview Techniques where Sylvia, I know
you did a really good job just breaking down how to describe
talking about a deal because that's often one of the hurdles
(18:08):
you need to jump when you're going through the application
process for IB. So I will put the link to that
in the show notes. But any questions at all or any
comments that people have, any future episodes for Sylvia that
you would like me to put some questions to her?
Let us know in the comments section to be happy to do so.
But thank you, Sylvia. Appreciate it.
Yeah. Thank you and and thanks
(18:28):
everyone. Bye bye.
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