May 3, 2024 • 37 mins
Crack open the secrets to marketing success with Shelby McFarlane and guest mastermind Schell Gower as we pour out our insights over cocktails in the latest episode of the Marketing Happy Hour podcast. Discover how zooming in on your niche can catapult your brand above the digital din, and why making friends within the industry can be your best business move. We'll take you behind-the-scenes of our own marketing journeys, sharing tales of triumph and collaborative cheers that prove when you narrow your focus, your opportunities widen.
Ever wondered how setting your prices can spell out the caliber of your clientele? Raise your glass and your expectations as we discuss how catering to customers who crave quality over cost can redefine your business's prosperity. We'll reveal why charging your worth and avoiding the price war can draw in those who appreciate exclusivity, and how high stakes can mean high rewards. Get ready to clink to the psychology of pricing and the magnetic pull of luxury that's sure to bring the ideal customers to your yard.
Serving up the final round, we spill the must-knows of vetting potential clients and the art of owning your business's worth. Saying no to misfit clients isn't just a power move—it's a strategic dance that leads to more desirable partnerships. Hear how letting go of a demanding client led to a tripled income, and why guarding your business assets, like your stronghold website, is non-negotiable. We also tap into the wisdom of strategic outsourcing, because when it comes to running a successful business, it's about working smarter, not harder. Join us for this episode where we mix up a cocktail of marketing savvy, storytelling, and strategy to get you toasting to your own success. Cheers to that!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Marketing Happy Hour podcast,
where we stir up the perfectblends of insights, strategies
and trends to quench your thirstfor marketing and business
success.
Join us every week as we pullup a chair pour out the latest
business innovations and mix insome expert advice from industry
leaders.
I am your host, shelbyMcFarlane, ceo of Shelby Company
(00:22):
Incorporated.
It's time to shake things up,stir up some creativity and sip
on success.
Welcome to the Marketing HappyHour podcast.
Hey y'all, this is Shelby, yourfavorite boss babe here, and I
am joined by one of my absolutefavorite marketing boss babes,
michelle Gower.
Hello, hey, girl.
How's it going?
Oh, so great Y'all.
(00:44):
We've been talking so muchsmack.
Before we hit record, weprobably should have recorded
all that.
Then we would have heard somefeelings.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, you know, you got to do what you got to do,
sometimes as marketers,Sometimes you got to let off a
little steam with some othermarketers, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So Shelly and I met through our B&I group.
Well, she's no longer a member,but she's still part of my life
, so I enjoy our conversationsand talking about marketing and
she's probably one of the firstpeople that I actually liked
that was in the marketingindustry.
I used to think that we wereall like competitors, right, and
I was like I don't want to talkabout anybody that does
(01:19):
marketing, like screw you guys.
But then Shell came in my life.
I'm like I mean, you're kind ofcool.
Okay, I can, I can dig it.
I can dig it.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you do and the name of your
business.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, all righty, I am Shell, I am with ClearMark
and I'll sling into my old BNIchapter sales manager moment and
say that one of the things Italk about a lot is that
customers don't buy products andservices.
They buy solutions to theproblems that they have, and
companies who can communicatethat the clearest are the ones
(01:53):
that win.
So what I do basically is Iwork with companies on their
messaging and their strategy,marketing strategy and looking
at their analytics kind of ahigh level view of what
companies need to do to win inthe marketplace.
And you know, one of the thingswe talk about often is there is
(02:14):
so much the overwhelm ofmarketing, of things that you
can do, and so what I like to dois look at companies, helping
them determine there's what Ican do, there's what I want to
do, what I can do and what needsto be done, and so we try to
create a strategy, a messagingand marketing strategy, to help
(02:34):
them get their message out thereand generate leads.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So the way that just to kind ofeducate our listeners here, the
way that we work together isyou create the strategy, you
help them niche down what thatprocess is and, like you, know
who they're trying to reach, andthen you guys will hire people
like me and my agency and weactually go out, we do the
social media stuff.
You have awesome websitedesigners, so you help with the
(03:01):
website, copyright, all thatkind of stuff.
So she is the overall umbrella,works with them, strategizes
with them, and then she hires abunch of different little
minions, as you would say, and Ilove being your minion, I love
working with your clientsbecause they've already been
vetted by you.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
You're a minion that wears pink.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, a pink minion all the time, but really today,
what we want to talk about andeducate you guys on and Shell is
the number one person I knowthat can help you with this is
niching down your client.
This is something that I've hadeight years of experience and
kind of like trying to figureout on my own.
I get frustrated whenever I gethired by someone that I should
(03:42):
have been like gosh.
I told them no, I should havevetted you a little bit more.
So what does that process looklike when you are helping
someone niche down who theirclientele is?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I think I think the biggest mistake and and as
business owners, um, we knowit's important to niche down and
also we're scared to frickingdeath to niche down Cause we're
like anybody could use myservices and, um, I the quote, I
don't even know, but it's likeif you're messaging to everyone,
(04:12):
you're really messaging to noone.
Um, in the digital age that weare in, um, the more specific
that you can be about who youserve, the clearer your message
is and you actually stand outbetter than if you're saying,
for example, I'm an HVAC company, like, if you have an air
(04:34):
conditioner, I can help.
Well, yeah, do you know howmany air conditioning service
people are in a city?
I mean it's ridiculous.
But if you said I am an HVACcompany who specifically works
with homes built before the year2000 and helping replace old
units that are on their way out,now you've defined your niche
(04:59):
or niche, niche, niche, whateverall of it, whatever all the
things, but it's it's aboutbeing extremely specific, and
that could be, you know, everyindustry is different, but it's
really sitting down and goingokay, who's your favorite client
?
I mean, that's one of the firstquestions that I ask who is your
favorite client?
If you could, 10 X, 20 X, ahundred X your favorite client,
(05:27):
10 X 20 X a hundred X yourfavorite client.
Who is that person and what arewhat?
What is it that you love aboutthem?
So, as, um, you know providers,service providers in the
marketing space it's talking youknow, hey, who's the people
that you love?
I know, um, it's kind of clichein the marketing where we're
like people who pay you that wasgreat, the people that pay.
But really, you know, forShelby, I'm sure you could say
(05:52):
the same thing For us.
As marketers, we have aspecific expertise.
We've read books, we've talked,we've listened to podcasts,
we've attended webinars andseminars, we've gotten
certifications.
So there's certain things thatwe have learned, and so I would
say, like, the favorite clientis those that trust that we know
(06:12):
what we're doing, you know,that in a service providing
space, that's who your favoriteclient is.
And so that's once we figure outand this is kind of the bridge
right, which is once you figureout, hey, who's your favorite
client, what makes them yourfavorite client or what makes
them your favorite customer?
Let's go back to the HVAC.
What makes your favoritecustomer?
(06:34):
Then you start asking thosequestions of well, why, why are
they your favorite companycustomer?
What is it that they do thatmakes them their favorite?
Is it because they trust you?
Is it because they're morefocused on quality versus
quantity, right?
So price doesn't necessarilymatter.
(06:57):
You know, thinking of a localHVAC company that I'm really
good friends with and he saidlook, I'm not the cheapest
person in the in in the city.
If you need plumbing work oryou need HVAC, I'm not
necessarily your fate, yourcheapest option.
But here's what I will tell youwe're going to do it and we're
going to get it right.
(07:17):
And if we don't get it right,we're going to come back.
And so that's what they'relooking for.
They're working, looking forpeople who are willing to trust
that if you're going to pay alittle bit more than somebody
who's cheaper, that you're goingto be happy with the results.
So that's why I talk aboutniching down is so important,
because it's how you break outof everybody else who's saying
(07:41):
this is what I do, this is whatI do, this is what I do.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Everybody else who's saying this is what I do, this
is what I do, this is what I do.
And I've noticed, like you know, on social media, when people
are asking for recommendations,lately there have been so many
people that go well, then we'lljust keep on with the HVAC,
right, I'm looking for an HVACcompany that doesn't cost an arm
and a leg.
So these are the mentality,like that's the mentality of so
many customers and clients thesedays, and I see that when I'm
(08:06):
tagged on posts that say I'mlooking for a door decal that
doesn't cost an arm and a leg,like, literally, that's the
phrase they keep using.
My response to that when peopletag me on that, hey, you know
what it's going to be at least$200.
Guess what?
I'm going to go up on thatperson because I don't want to
deal with somebody that has thementality of like I'm just
looking for a cheap service, I'mjust looking because that's
(08:29):
what they're going to get.
And I think as small businessowners, we kind of get
overwhelmed with, oh, but thisperson's cheaper.
Or oh, but they do more thanwhat I do for the same price.
You know, and just owning ourvalue and knowing what we're
worth, and that's something thatyou've helped me with
tremendously, because when wefirst started working together,
you're like girl, you have gotto charge more and I'm like I'm
(08:50):
so afraid to charge more, like Idon't understand.
But think about how much I havereceived and how much abundance
has come in my life becauseI've increased my worth.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You know, with your help, of course, and I think, as
business you know we're talkingto business owners here.
So one of the things I wouldsay about about niching down, is
it helps you.
One, it helps you clarify whoyou serve, right, yeah.
Two, it helps you look atexcuse me, helps you look at how
much you're charging andwhether those people will pay
(09:22):
Right.
So I'll give you anotherexample.
I had a, a, a perspectivemeeting with a client yesterday
actually, and she is in theluxury travel space, interesting
, and she, her, she, she's kindof a little bit all over the
place, which is part of why she,she reached out to help her
with strategy.
(09:42):
But she's in the luxury travelspace.
One of the things that sheoffers is a concierge service
that you pay $6,500 a year andshe's considered an expense for,
just like your high-end clients, so high net worth clients that
(10:03):
are willing to have her onretainer, just like a lawyer,
just like her tax, just like anaccountant, she's, she is a
travel on retainer so that whenyou're going let and he, her
example was, let's say that youknow the husband or the wife is
(10:23):
traveling to Europe for work andhe'll call her and say hey,
would you, I would like toextend my trip for 20 days and
bring my wife over.
Can you just plan that trip forus?
Or we're going to be inCalifornia so I'd like to fly.
You know, let's extend my trip.
(10:44):
So it's a retainer and and Isaid you think about it and and
I worked with a luxury brandseveral years ago and I told her
you should go up on your price.
Why should you go up on yourprice?
Well, because somebody who'sgoing to put you on retainer to
(11:05):
manage four to six trips a yearmoney is not an option, right,
money is not that.
That doesn't matter to them.
And so sometimes, in herparticular case of a luxury
travel agent, her, her retainerprice should go up, because if
somebody who makes, let's say,their net worth is $2.5 million
(11:29):
and they're able to take four tosix trips a year, their network
, if you're too low, people go,oh, like, what's wrong with?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
you.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Like what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
that you're not charging enough.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I have another friend of mine who does websites and
she got bit.
She put in a proposal for areally huge website and and um,
the client that she was workingwith said, are you sure that's
all it's going to cost?
And she wasn't legitimatebecause the wet.
Because even though she thought, hey, this is a really good
(12:05):
price Like you know, I'm makinggood profit margin Her client
was at this point.
When you know your niche thatyou're working in and you know
your client, then you can say,okay, if I want to play with the
luxury market, or I want toplay with a big pharma, or I
want to play with a big pharma,or I want to play with in this
(12:28):
high space, I need to raise myrates even though I could charge
less.
I need to charge more becausethen it's showing that I know
what I'm talking about.
From an other perspective, youknow you don't want to be a race
to the bottom because nobodywins, and so understanding your
(12:50):
niche kind of bringing it allhome understanding your niche
helps you go back and look, andthis is part of what I do is I
say, okay, who is it that youserve and what products or
services do you provide?
And then are you charging toomuch or not enough?
Nine times out of 10, you'renot charging enough, and if you
(13:12):
are charging the right price,then it is are we reaching the
right audience?
Because you could be doing allthe right marketing tactics and
still not getting the results.
For example, going back to theluxury travel agent, she was on
Pinterest, she was on Facebookads and Google ads and every
(13:33):
person that she got in herfunnel were all people that were
looking to spend $5,000 inMiami for a destination wedding
and she's like that's not who Iwant to serve.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I want to serve the people that want to go to Europe
for a month or, you know, balifor 10 days, like you know, with
a group of 20 people.
That's that's who I want toserve.
So that's where we look at this.
Then that goes.
When you know your niche, thenyou can go into the strategy.
Okay, then we need to adjustthe strategy.
How do we do that so thatyou're getting the right clients
(14:07):
in the door?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And also, I mean that works perfectly into social.
So if she wants clients that'sgoing to spend $6,500, $8,000 a
month with her, she needs tomake sure that her social and
her website reflect that she'sworth $8,000.
And that's kind of where youknow people drop the ball with
like oh well, you know, I'lljust get referrals.
(14:29):
Well, you know what peoplecreep you out on social.
They're going to be like allover your Facebook and Instagram
and your website and Googlesearching you and all the things
.
So that's why it's so importantthat once you do niche down
that you also have that strategylike you're talking about, and
then implement something thatreflects your worth.
You know it's easy, whenever I'mtalking about like my signs and
(14:52):
stuff on social, to be able toshow that like oh hey, look, you
know I did this sign.
People can see how great itlooks.
But then whenever you'retalking about like what me and
you do, it's a service basedthing.
So if I'm trying to sellsomeone on social media and my
freaking social media looks likeshit, like what is that?
I mean that doesn't make anydifference, right?
Like I have to make sure thatit looks good, you know.
(15:14):
And so make sure that you know,it's also a reflection on your
brand, with what your worth isand with that when you're
talking to clients.
We're allowed to vet clientslike me, and you do this all the
time to talk about, like howyou're vetting clients when you
have a consult with them too.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, I think it goes again.
It goes back to who's yourniche, who do you want to serve,
and setting your price andgoing and being unapologetic
about it.
And so it's, you know, everyonce, here's what I'll say Every
once in a while.
You may say I just really wantto do this, and so you may know,
(15:55):
their budget's a little is alittle lower, and so yeah, I'll,
I'll do this.
And so you may know theirbudgets a little is a little
lower, and so yeah, I'll, I'lldo it.
I'll take this one, you know,and shave some money off the top
or whatever.
But I think, knowing when youknow your niche and you know
your value right, so you knowhow much you're going to serve.
That helps when vetting clientsbecause you can say this is my
process, this is what I do, andyou can always ask their budget.
(16:18):
You know, hey, what's yourbudget?
But at the end of the day it isthis is what I do, this is what
you get for what I do.
Are you ready to get started?
And if they're like, oh, it'sjust too expensive, you know
what can we do for less?
You know, that's where you'regiven an opportunity to say do I
really want to work with themor not?
(16:40):
If you want to work with them,you might go okay, well, here's
what I can do for this budget.
Yeah, take it or leave it.
But at the end of the day,here's what I have found is when
, over the years of owning mybusiness, when, over the years
(17:03):
of owning my business, theclients that I typically not all
, but a vast majority of themwhen money has been an issue and
I have bent, meaning I'll takeit whatever, there's two things
that happen.
One, that customer clienttypically if I said, you know,
back in my early days, if I said, hey to do this service.
It's $2,500.
(17:23):
I can't do 2,500.
Can you do it for 15?
Okay, sure, I end up mentallyspending over $5,000 worth of
value to a person who only paidme 1,500.
That's number one.
To a person who only paid me1500.
That's number one.
(17:43):
And they give there's such apain because they want so much
for that dollar.
And I get it.
I get it Right.
But the other thing is is thatyou start to fill your plate
with these people who haveundervalued what you're worth,
people who have undervalued whatyou're worth that you can't
take the people that value whatyou're worth and that has been,
(18:05):
and so or you end up taking theperson that values what you're
worth and then you're runningaround with your head cut off
because you got all these peopleand you start to really get
frustrated with the people thatare the nitpicky undervaluing
what you're worth and so thenyou don't do a good service to
them because they're so smallwhen you've got this big person
(18:27):
that you want to serve becausethey value what you are or what
they know.
So end of the day is when youknow again, know your niche and
you know your pricing, then thesecond thing or the third thing
you need to do is know whatquestions you're going to ask to
vet the client or the personoriented, but asking the right
(18:59):
questions before you come to anagreement and just being firm
and saying you know this is notthis.
I don't think this is going tobe a really good fit for either
one of us.
Let me, but I have a reallygood connection and that's where
connections come in place.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Let me, let me connect.
I'd love to connect you withthis person who I feel like
might be a better fit for whereyour needs are right now and
then as you grow.
If there's something I can doto help, please let me know.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And I found the top two questions that when I'm
vetting clients or having thatconsole, number one, of course
we need to know budget.
So if someone comes at me andthey're like, oh, we don't
really know what a budget is,okay, well, here's my general
proposal to you.
You can take it, look at it andthen kind of see what it is.
But, like, if you're trying tohire somebody in the service
(19:43):
business, like, make sure you goin with a budget, especially
marketing wise.
Me and you know, understand,you've got to have a marketing
budget.
You know we talked about B&Ibeing $899 and how some people
don't want to spend that, youknow, on their budget.
And so it's like well, if yourbudget's less than $8.99 a year
anyways for marketing, we got toreevaluate, bro, like you got
to have more than that.
(20:03):
And then I think our second, mysecond favorite question is
asking them what theirexpectations are.
I used to be so scared to askpeople, well, what are your
expectations?
Because I was settingexpectations very high because
I'm type A, enneagram eight,that's what I do.
I set very high standards formyself.
(20:24):
When really they're like bro,if you just do like three posts
a week, we're chill, you knowyou're like, oh shit, I just
like stress myself out for noreason.
You know I didn't ask them whattheir expectations are or if
they're paying me for threeposts a week, but their
expectations are.
We want all this engagement.
Oh my gosh, now I'm, you know,not doing what I need to do
(20:44):
because I didn't set thoseexpectations or ask them what
they were at the very beginning.
So I definitely think askingbudget, asking expectations are
super important when you arehaving those consults.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And here's what I'll tell you.
I'll tell you two things.
One Gardner study came out lastyear the 2023, the two things.
That goes back to what wetalked about just a few minutes
ago and the importance of socialand website, which is almost
75% of all business to businessreferral or, you know,
(21:17):
connections, right, they wouldrather do all their research
online before they call you toclose the deal.
So that's why it's important tohave your social aligned with
who you want to serve, how youwant to serve them.
The second thing I would say is,if you don't know where to
(21:38):
start with a marketing budget10% gross or net, you decide,
but 10% of your let's go withgross of your gross annual
revenue should go to marketing.
Yeah, 10%, and that is just tosay the same.
Right, if you want slow growth,12%.
(21:59):
If you want massive growth, 15to 20%.
Now, that varies, but you canlook it up online, you can
Google it.
10% is the industry standardand what I have found is that it
doesn't, you know.
That's why, again, going intostrategy, knowing the budget
(22:21):
translates.
So all of this translates intowhat strategy we do.
If you gave me, I've got aclient that'll spend $11,000 a
month in marketing strategy.
Okay, now I can say I'm goingto spend X amount of dollars on
social ads, I'm going to spend Xamount of dollars in this.
I now know where I want to putthat money.
(22:43):
If they said only $5,000 amonth, okay, then that strategy
is going to change.
I'm not going to run ads onGoogle and Facebook and
Instagram and YouTube.
I might go okay, who's yourideal target audience?
Okay, we're only going to runads on Instagram because your
niche is on Instagram.
(23:04):
Or, if your niche is an oldergeneration, we're only going to
run ads on Facebook.
So, knowing your budget,knowing your niche, knowing what
you're offering all of thosecome into play when we are
starting to execute a marketingstrategy for the business.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And small business owners.
You know, I personallyunderstand, when I first started
my window tint shop gosh 12years ago, I didn't know
anything about marketing.
So I that was back in the daywe did yellow page ads and I was
on TV doing ads because we didhouse tinting, you know.
So I was in the chamber, I wasin leads groups.
That was before social mediawas even around.
And so now we have thesedifferent, these different areas
(23:48):
where we can still market andto get.
I would love to get your opinion, because the things that I've
seen with trends and stuff likehard copy is what I kind of call
that marketing.
Hard copy marketing is comingback.
Mailers coming back, being onTV doing the Hulu ads, going on
TV shows the morning news shows,depending on if that's your
(24:08):
market or not and, honestly,people think that going on to
like it's local here, channel 7.
I make sure all my fundraisersI do were on Channel 7 or were
on Arkansas style, becausethey're also sharing that to
their social and their website.
People are like why do I wantto be on TV?
Why do I want to be interviewed?
Because they share it onlinetoo, and so I think that hard
(24:29):
copy marketing is coming back.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Absolutely.
Um, it's finding the right, theniche for that, but um, I have,
uh, my hog guys.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yes, we love your hog guys, my hog guys.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
They, we did a collaboration or we were doing
some advertising with a bigbrand and that brand puts out a
quarterly magazine and so we putan ad quarterly in a magazine
and we're getting click-throughs.
You know, we add a little QRcode in the corner and we get
(25:04):
clicks.
We get people who scan thatbecause they're sitting down in
their magazine.
Hard copies of magazines sit ona desk.
If they're really pretty,they'll sit on your coffee table
.
You know the these, the guy,the, the guy at hog guys.
You know that that sits athunting camp you know that goes
to the hunting camp and whenthey're sitting around at night
(25:26):
they're thumbing through it.
So it, yes, I would.
I would 100% agree.
You know digital.
There's even some speculation.
You know that digital is goingto.
I mean not speculation thatdigital is going to make a
transformation in the next threeto five years, absolutely.
(25:46):
So you start looking at what iswhat makes sense for your brand.
It doesn't make sense for everybrand, but it does make sense
for some brands to be in certainplaces.
I have a dermatology clinic.
They're in a local magazine.
We looked at a couple ofdifferent ones.
We picked one.
Now are there five in the area?
(26:09):
Absolutely, or more Sure, butwe wanted to go which one makes
the most sense for their targetaudience.
We chose one or two.
I think we're doing two.
So it, yeah, digital for sure.
And, and to your point,absolutely going on to any type
(26:31):
of new, if it makes sense.
Again, going back to is it partof the strategy?
But yeah, going on a newschannel, cause here's what
happens, like as you do youspeak to that is, they share it
on their social media.
You can reshare it, you canembed that link on your website.
Um, now that becomes socialproof.
(26:52):
Again, it's all about why do wedo all this?
Yeah, it's validating that youare who you say you are, that
you know what you know.
Yeah, it's validating that youare who you say you are, that
you know what you know.
And at the end of the day, whensomebody is searching all over
the internet to say, hey, isthis company legitimate?
They see you show up in all ofthese places versus someone else
(27:15):
.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
They're like oh well, let's give them a try because
they're looking and that's thenumber one thing that I get
asked as a marketer is how can Iget on Google?
It's like the most genericanswer ever, right?
It's like how can I get onGoogle?
It's like, well, do you have aGoogle business?
Yes, but it's not showing up.
Okay, we got to get Googlereviews.
Well, how do I do SEO?
(27:36):
It's not really how do you doSEO.
It just kind of does its thing.
Y'all Like SEO is just like athing.
It's just there.
You got to figure it out, justlike the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I like to say it's a mix of what works and voodoo
magic.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I have SEO experts that I love to death and they're
really good at what they do andI still think it's a little bit
of voodoo magic, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I totally 100%, because, honestly, if we knew
what SEO was, you know we wouldnot be on this podcast talking
about it.
I would tell you that becausewe'd be on the freaking beach
somewhere, because we'd be sofreaking rich and freaking nice
little Mai Tais, yeah, exactly.
Or what is the algorithm doingtoday?
I get that question a lot too,like I don't really know.
(28:21):
If I knew I would let you know.
But I kind of have an idea.
I do the research, I try tofigure it out, but none of us
really know.
You know they can act like theydo, but, bro, you don't really
know.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And here's what I like here's, here's what I say
to people who are looking for uh, when they look to marketers, I
like to say it's the practiceof marketing.
It's almost like a doctor,we've done, we've read the books
, we've gone to class, we'veperformed surgery, a couple of
our clients, right, yeah, butwe're still dealing with humans
(28:54):
and humans change, algorithmschange, businesses change.
You know, we know what works,but that's why it's called.
I call it the practice ofmarketing is because sometimes
it's taking what we know worksand testing it and then going
okay, well, the algorithmshifted this week or this month.
(29:15):
Youtube, for example, made ahuge shift, you know, a couple
of months ago.
Podcasting has made huge shiftsin the last several months.
Those are things that peopledon't notice necessarily right
away and they don't alwayspublicize when they make changes
(29:35):
.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Oh heck no.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
And so you're just going to want you to figure it
out.
Yeah, wait a minute, thisworked last month.
Why is it not working thismonth?
And then you go into digging.
So you know it's great.
You know, ask those questionsof of your professionals,
whoever you're hiring, whetheryou're hiring marketers or
someone else.
Ask those questions, becausewhat you're looking for in the
(29:57):
answer is well, right now, thisis what's working.
But, as we know, things shiftand change all the time.
That's why you hire me isbecause I'm going to pay
attention on a weekly or amonthly basis to see what's
changing, so that we can makeadjustments along the way.
That's what the results, that'swhat you want to hear, is hey,
(30:18):
I am learning, I am constantlyevolving, I'm constantly growing
as a professional, so we'regoing to continue to elevate or
keep moving you forward.
We just may have to make someadjustments.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, and if you're in an industry that you know
changes like what we're talkingabout with the marketing I've
learned that just being straightup with people is the easiest
way to sell yourself so easy, infact.
I've been so straightforwardwith someone.
They questioned if I knewanything.
I'm like I'm not selling you oncrap, like with the marketing.
(30:56):
Like there's a bunch of us andwe talk about, you know, people
we don't like, that we have incommon, that do what we do, and
so it's like you know, becausethat's what marketers do, y'all.
Okay, we talk crap about people, but anyway, so it's like they
sell themselves and they neverfollow through.
Or they sell this dream like wetalked about earlier, like the
multi-level marketing dream,like you could be a millionaire
(31:19):
in a year.
Like, shut up, you know, likebe realistic with your people
and be authentic to who you are,because ultimately, that's what
you're going to get back fromyour clients and you want them
to respect you.
And so that same person thatrejected me for being too honest
came to me three months latergoing.
I'm so sorry.
I hired the shiny person whenreally you were telling me the
(31:43):
truth.
And can we work together?
I have to freaking literallyfor $500 more a month after my
initial proposal.
You know it's like no y'all.
I'm sorry, but now I'm worthmore because you understand what
I'm worth now Sure.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Sure, and I think that goes back to if you find
the honest people, you know we.
I mean everything that we say.
Kate Middleton is a wonderfulcase study right now.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yes, it's so intriguing to follow all of this
.
It's so intriguing.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It really is, but, but there's.
So you know that's a, that's asilly example, but really want
people to say, I don't know, butI'm going to research and
figure it out, or this is what'sworking today.
We'll keep evaluating andtrusting, you know, making
adjustments along the way, the,the people that over.
(32:36):
I'm a person that can be avisionary person, so when I work
with companies, I can look atthem and go hey, you guys are a
$10 million company.
We just got to get you there.
Yeah, and there's a lot ofthings that need to happen
before we can get you to a $10million company, but we can get
you there, you know, but it'snot going to be like you're not
going to go from 5 million to 10million this year, like that's
(32:58):
just not going to happen, right,yeah, but that's what you want
is.
You want people to be honestwith you.
You don't want the shiny, happypeople.
They're great for a song, butthey're not good.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And they may dance if you ask them to, but they're
not going to perform well.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Right, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Right.
Or they'll lock you intocontracts that are months long
or take your freaking websiteafter you stop paying.
I'm like good Lord, the thingsthat me and you've gone through
with people about their websitesbeing taken down because they
stopped paying them.
I mean you have to payattention.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
We should do a whole podcast episode on things that
you should own, that you shouldknow.
Oh, good idea.
Regardless who you hire as amarketing strategist, yes,
textaging, whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Here's the thing Always own it.
Yes, I agree with that Y'allshould be looking forward to
that.
We'll do.
We'll do another podcast,because it's very important to
own your stuff, and that's againa different topic.
But ultimately today, like youknow, we just wanted you guys to
be educated on niching downyour clientele, understanding
how important it is and thenalso knowing your worth and that
it's OK to say no to people.
(34:09):
It's OK to fire clients.
I fired one last week that tookso much energy that once I
fired him, within three weeks Ihad three new clients that took
that same amount of energy,literally tripled my income
because I fired the one assholethat I was working for that took
all the energy, like she wastalking about earlier.
He wanted you know somethingfor nothing, took all my energy.
(34:30):
I was frustrated, did more workthan I should have, let him go
as a client and then got hiredby three people that guess what.
I don't even hear from them andthat's my clientele.
So if y'all are looking forsomeone to do social media for
you and you don't ever want totalk to me holla, that's who my
clientele is I don't want totalk to you but like I do, but
like I don't.
Like y'all are great, but likenot.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You want to, you want to.
I'm going to still watch it andmake sure it'd be like hey,
shelby, you could have done thisa little different, absolutely.
You know, when you're hiringprofessionals and just think in
general when you're hiring aprofessional, it doesn't matter
whether you're hiring an HVAC,you're hiring a marketing
professional, you're hiring adentist, like whoever right,
(35:22):
whoever you're hiring a travelagent like you, you're hiring
them because your time isvaluable and you want to trust
that they're going to do a goodjob, because your time is more
valuable than paying that personto do like you're hiring me or
you're hiring Shelby becauseyour time is more valuable at
(35:44):
doing the higher level work ofrunning a company, running a
business, running whatever,managing your team, than it is
sitting down and figuring outwhat is Google doing this week
and am I pinning enough thingsto my Pinterest board and how
many people clicked my socialmedia posts Like?
Your time is more valuable thanthat.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Absolutely, just like my time is more valuable than
writing content.
So that's why people that workfor me to write content I'll
help manage the content and thequality and the people.
So I mean, ultimately I don'teven work.
Now that I'm thinking about it,I have clients that don't talk
to me and then I hire people towrite the content for those
clients.
So I mean, like, what do I evendo?
(36:26):
Maybe that's why I have thispodcast, maybe that's it, maybe
that's it.
No.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Not.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Not at all.
You are so no not at all.
I wish what it is.
But seriously, I really enjoyedour conversation today.
Per the use, I'm sure we'll bedoing more together.
Um, we keep talking about doinglike a separate podcast, but we
both know we don't have timefor that, so we'll just do
multiple episodes on themarketing happy hour podcast and
you can kind of have like awe'll call it the shell segment
(36:53):
or come up with some fancy name.
Actually, we should ask theother BI members to come up,
since they're better atmarketing than we are usually.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Our group did kick tail.
They do their sales managermoment.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Me and Shell just wouldn't even go.
We'd be like you know what, youdon't even need us to do our
manager moment.
You guys know how to domarketing, like write hours for
us.
That'd be great, that'd beawesome.
Yeah, they always did a goodjob.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on today.
I look forward to moreconversations in the future and
(37:28):
I will catch everybody next week.
See y'all later.
Welcome to the Marketing Happy Hour podcast,
where we stir up the perfectblends of insights, strategies
and trends to quench your thirstfor marketing and business
success.
Join us every week as we pullup a chair pour out the latest
business innovations and mix insome expert advice from industry
leaders.
I am your host, shelbyMcFarlane, ceo of Shelby Company
(00:22):
Incorporated.
It's time to shake things up,stir up some creativity and sip
on success.
Welcome to the Marketing HappyHour podcast.
Hey y'all, this is Shelby, yourfavorite boss babe here, and I
am joined by one of my absolutefavorite marketing boss babes,
michelle Gower.
Hello, hey, girl.
How's it going?
Oh, so great Y'all.
(00:44):
We've been talking so muchsmack.
Before we hit record, weprobably should have recorded
all that.
Then we would have heard somefeelings.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, you know, you got to do what you got to do,
sometimes as marketers,Sometimes you got to let off a
little steam with some othermarketers, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So Shelly and I met through our B&I group.
Well, she's no longer a member,but she's still part of my life
, so I enjoy our conversationsand talking about marketing and
she's probably one of the firstpeople that I actually liked
that was in the marketingindustry.
I used to think that we wereall like competitors, right, and
I was like I don't want to talkabout anybody that does
(01:19):
marketing, like screw you guys.
But then Shell came in my life.
I'm like I mean, you're kind ofcool.
Okay, I can, I can dig it.
I can dig it.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you do and the name of your
business.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well, all righty, I am Shell, I am with ClearMark
and I'll sling into my old BNIchapter sales manager moment and
say that one of the things Italk about a lot is that
customers don't buy products andservices.
They buy solutions to theproblems that they have, and
companies who can communicatethat the clearest are the ones
(01:53):
that win.
So what I do basically is Iwork with companies on their
messaging and their strategy,marketing strategy and looking
at their analytics kind of ahigh level view of what
companies need to do to win inthe marketplace.
And you know, one of the thingswe talk about often is there is
(02:14):
so much the overwhelm ofmarketing, of things that you
can do, and so what I like to dois look at companies, helping
them determine there's what Ican do, there's what I want to
do, what I can do and what needsto be done, and so we try to
create a strategy, a messagingand marketing strategy, to help
(02:34):
them get their message out thereand generate leads.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So the way that just to kind ofeducate our listeners here, the
way that we work together isyou create the strategy, you
help them niche down what thatprocess is and, like you, know
who they're trying to reach, andthen you guys will hire people
like me and my agency and weactually go out, we do the
social media stuff.
You have awesome websitedesigners, so you help with the
(03:01):
website, copyright, all thatkind of stuff.
So she is the overall umbrella,works with them, strategizes
with them, and then she hires abunch of different little
minions, as you would say, and Ilove being your minion, I love
working with your clientsbecause they've already been
vetted by you.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
You're a minion that wears pink.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yes, a pink minion all the time, but really today,
what we want to talk about andeducate you guys on and Shell is
the number one person I knowthat can help you with this is
niching down your client.
This is something that I've hadeight years of experience and
kind of like trying to figureout on my own.
I get frustrated whenever I gethired by someone that I should
(03:42):
have been like gosh.
I told them no, I should havevetted you a little bit more.
So what does that process looklike when you are helping
someone niche down who theirclientele is?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I think I think the biggest mistake and and as
business owners, um, we knowit's important to niche down and
also we're scared to frickingdeath to niche down Cause we're
like anybody could use myservices and, um, I the quote, I
don't even know, but it's likeif you're messaging to everyone,
(04:12):
you're really messaging to noone.
Um, in the digital age that weare in, um, the more specific
that you can be about who youserve, the clearer your message
is and you actually stand outbetter than if you're saying,
for example, I'm an HVAC company, like, if you have an air
(04:34):
conditioner, I can help.
Well, yeah, do you know howmany air conditioning service
people are in a city?
I mean it's ridiculous.
But if you said I am an HVACcompany who specifically works
with homes built before the year2000 and helping replace old
units that are on their way out,now you've defined your niche
(04:59):
or niche, niche, niche, whateverall of it, whatever all the
things, but it's it's aboutbeing extremely specific, and
that could be, you know, everyindustry is different, but it's
really sitting down and goingokay, who's your favorite client
?
I mean, that's one of the firstquestions that I ask who is your
favorite client?
If you could, 10 X, 20 X, ahundred X your favorite client,
(05:27):
10 X 20 X a hundred X yourfavorite client.
Who is that person and what arewhat?
What is it that you love aboutthem?
So, as, um, you know providers,service providers in the
marketing space it's talking youknow, hey, who's the people
that you love?
I know, um, it's kind of clichein the marketing where we're
like people who pay you that wasgreat, the people that pay.
But really, you know, forShelby, I'm sure you could say
(05:52):
the same thing For us.
As marketers, we have aspecific expertise.
We've read books, we've talked,we've listened to podcasts,
we've attended webinars andseminars, we've gotten
certifications.
So there's certain things thatwe have learned, and so I would
say, like, the favorite clientis those that trust that we know
(06:12):
what we're doing, you know,that in a service providing
space, that's who your favoriteclient is.
And so that's once we figure outand this is kind of the bridge
right, which is once you figureout, hey, who's your favorite
client, what makes them yourfavorite client or what makes
them your favorite customer?
Let's go back to the HVAC.
What makes your favoritecustomer?
(06:34):
Then you start asking thosequestions of well, why, why are
they your favorite companycustomer?
What is it that they do thatmakes them their favorite?
Is it because they trust you?
Is it because they're morefocused on quality versus
quantity, right?
So price doesn't necessarilymatter.
(06:57):
You know, thinking of a localHVAC company that I'm really
good friends with and he saidlook, I'm not the cheapest
person in the in in the city.
If you need plumbing work oryou need HVAC, I'm not
necessarily your fate, yourcheapest option.
But here's what I will tell youwe're going to do it and we're
going to get it right.
(07:17):
And if we don't get it right,we're going to come back.
And so that's what they'relooking for.
They're working, looking forpeople who are willing to trust
that if you're going to pay alittle bit more than somebody
who's cheaper, that you're goingto be happy with the results.
So that's why I talk aboutniching down is so important,
because it's how you break outof everybody else who's saying
(07:41):
this is what I do, this is whatI do, this is what I do.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Everybody else who's saying this is what I do, this
is what I do, this is what I do.
And I've noticed, like you know, on social media, when people
are asking for recommendations,lately there have been so many
people that go well, then we'lljust keep on with the HVAC,
right, I'm looking for an HVACcompany that doesn't cost an arm
and a leg.
So these are the mentality,like that's the mentality of so
many customers and clients thesedays, and I see that when I'm
(08:06):
tagged on posts that say I'mlooking for a door decal that
doesn't cost an arm and a leg,like, literally, that's the
phrase they keep using.
My response to that when peopletag me on that, hey, you know
what it's going to be at least$200.
Guess what?
I'm going to go up on thatperson because I don't want to
deal with somebody that has thementality of like I'm just
looking for a cheap service, I'mjust looking because that's
(08:29):
what they're going to get.
And I think as small businessowners, we kind of get
overwhelmed with, oh, but thisperson's cheaper.
Or oh, but they do more thanwhat I do for the same price.
You know, and just owning ourvalue and knowing what we're
worth, and that's something thatyou've helped me with
tremendously, because when wefirst started working together,
you're like girl, you have gotto charge more and I'm like I'm
(08:50):
so afraid to charge more, like Idon't understand.
But think about how much I havereceived and how much abundance
has come in my life becauseI've increased my worth.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You know, with your help, of course, and I think, as
business you know we're talkingto business owners here.
So one of the things I wouldsay about about niching down, is
it helps you.
One, it helps you clarify whoyou serve, right, yeah.
Two, it helps you look atexcuse me, helps you look at how
much you're charging andwhether those people will pay
(09:22):
Right.
So I'll give you anotherexample.
I had a, a, a perspectivemeeting with a client yesterday
actually, and she is in theluxury travel space, interesting
, and she, her, she, she's kindof a little bit all over the
place, which is part of why she,she reached out to help her
with strategy.
(09:42):
But she's in the luxury travelspace.
One of the things that sheoffers is a concierge service
that you pay $6,500 a year andshe's considered an expense for,
just like your high-end clients, so high net worth clients that
(10:03):
are willing to have her onretainer, just like a lawyer,
just like her tax, just like anaccountant, she's, she is a
travel on retainer so that whenyou're going let and he, her
example was, let's say that youknow the husband or the wife is
(10:23):
traveling to Europe for work andhe'll call her and say hey,
would you, I would like toextend my trip for 20 days and
bring my wife over.
Can you just plan that trip forus?
Or we're going to be inCalifornia so I'd like to fly.
You know, let's extend my trip.
(10:44):
So it's a retainer and and Isaid you think about it and and
I worked with a luxury brandseveral years ago and I told her
you should go up on your price.
Why should you go up on yourprice?
Well, because somebody who'sgoing to put you on retainer to
(11:05):
manage four to six trips a yearmoney is not an option, right,
money is not that.
That doesn't matter to them.
And so sometimes, in herparticular case of a luxury
travel agent, her, her retainerprice should go up, because if
somebody who makes, let's say,their net worth is $2.5 million
(11:29):
and they're able to take four tosix trips a year, their network
, if you're too low, people go,oh, like, what's wrong with?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
you.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Like what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
that you're not charging enough.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I have another friend of mine who does websites and
she got bit.
She put in a proposal for areally huge website and and um,
the client that she was workingwith said, are you sure that's
all it's going to cost?
And she wasn't legitimatebecause the wet.
Because even though she thought, hey, this is a really good
(12:05):
price Like you know, I'm makinggood profit margin Her client
was at this point.
When you know your niche thatyou're working in and you know
your client, then you can say,okay, if I want to play with the
luxury market, or I want toplay with a big pharma, or I
want to play with a big pharma,or I want to play with in this
(12:28):
high space, I need to raise myrates even though I could charge
less.
I need to charge more becausethen it's showing that I know
what I'm talking about.
From an other perspective, youknow you don't want to be a race
to the bottom because nobodywins, and so understanding your
(12:50):
niche kind of bringing it allhome understanding your niche
helps you go back and look, andthis is part of what I do is I
say, okay, who is it that youserve and what products or
services do you provide?
And then are you charging toomuch or not enough?
Nine times out of 10, you'renot charging enough, and if you
(13:12):
are charging the right price,then it is are we reaching the
right audience?
Because you could be doing allthe right marketing tactics and
still not getting the results.
For example, going back to theluxury travel agent, she was on
Pinterest, she was on Facebookads and Google ads and every
(13:33):
person that she got in herfunnel were all people that were
looking to spend $5,000 inMiami for a destination wedding
and she's like that's not who Iwant to serve.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I want to serve the people that want to go to Europe
for a month or, you know, balifor 10 days, like you know, with
a group of 20 people.
That's that's who I want toserve.
So that's where we look at this.
Then that goes.
When you know your niche, thenyou can go into the strategy.
Okay, then we need to adjustthe strategy.
How do we do that so thatyou're getting the right clients
(14:07):
in the door?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And also, I mean that works perfectly into social.
So if she wants clients that'sgoing to spend $6,500, $8,000 a
month with her, she needs tomake sure that her social and
her website reflect that she'sworth $8,000.
And that's kind of where youknow people drop the ball with
like oh well, you know, I'lljust get referrals.
(14:29):
Well, you know what peoplecreep you out on social.
They're going to be like allover your Facebook and Instagram
and your website and Googlesearching you and all the things
.
So that's why it's so importantthat once you do niche down
that you also have that strategylike you're talking about, and
then implement something thatreflects your worth.
You know it's easy, whenever I'mtalking about like my signs and
(14:52):
stuff on social, to be able toshow that like oh hey, look, you
know I did this sign.
People can see how great itlooks.
But then whenever you'retalking about like what me and
you do, it's a service basedthing.
So if I'm trying to sellsomeone on social media and my
freaking social media looks likeshit, like what is that?
I mean that doesn't make anydifference, right?
Like I have to make sure thatit looks good, you know.
(15:14):
And so make sure that you know,it's also a reflection on your
brand, with what your worth isand with that when you're
talking to clients.
We're allowed to vet clientslike me, and you do this all the
time to talk about, like howyou're vetting clients when you
have a consult with them too.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, I think it goes again.
It goes back to who's yourniche, who do you want to serve,
and setting your price andgoing and being unapologetic
about it.
And so it's, you know, everyonce, here's what I'll say Every
once in a while.
You may say I just really wantto do this, and so you may know,
(15:55):
their budget's a little is alittle lower, and so yeah, I'll,
I'll do this.
And so you may know theirbudgets a little is a little
lower, and so yeah, I'll, I'lldo it.
I'll take this one, you know,and shave some money off the top
or whatever.
But I think, knowing when youknow your niche and you know
your value right, so you knowhow much you're going to serve.
That helps when vetting clientsbecause you can say this is my
process, this is what I do, andyou can always ask their budget.
(16:18):
You know, hey, what's yourbudget?
But at the end of the day it isthis is what I do, this is what
you get for what I do.
Are you ready to get started?
And if they're like, oh, it'sjust too expensive, you know
what can we do for less?
You know, that's where you'regiven an opportunity to say do I
really want to work with themor not?
(16:40):
If you want to work with them,you might go okay, well, here's
what I can do for this budget.
Yeah, take it or leave it.
But at the end of the day,here's what I have found is when
, over the years of owning mybusiness, when, over the years
(17:03):
of owning my business, theclients that I typically not all
, but a vast majority of themwhen money has been an issue and
I have bent, meaning I'll takeit whatever, there's two things
that happen.
One, that customer clienttypically if I said, you know,
back in my early days, if I said, hey to do this service.
It's $2,500.
(17:23):
I can't do 2,500.
Can you do it for 15?
Okay, sure, I end up mentallyspending over $5,000 worth of
value to a person who only paidme 1,500.
That's number one.
To a person who only paid me1500.
That's number one.
(17:43):
And they give there's such apain because they want so much
for that dollar.
And I get it.
I get it Right.
But the other thing is is thatyou start to fill your plate
with these people who haveundervalued what you're worth,
people who have undervalued whatyou're worth that you can't
take the people that value whatyou're worth and that has been,
(18:05):
and so or you end up taking theperson that values what you're
worth and then you're runningaround with your head cut off
because you got all these peopleand you start to really get
frustrated with the people thatare the nitpicky undervaluing
what you're worth and so thenyou don't do a good service to
them because they're so smallwhen you've got this big person
(18:27):
that you want to serve becausethey value what you are or what
they know.
So end of the day is when youknow again, know your niche and
you know your pricing, then thesecond thing or the third thing
you need to do is know whatquestions you're going to ask to
vet the client or the personoriented, but asking the right
(18:59):
questions before you come to anagreement and just being firm
and saying you know this is notthis.
I don't think this is going tobe a really good fit for either
one of us.
Let me, but I have a reallygood connection and that's where
connections come in place.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Let me, let me connect.
I'd love to connect you withthis person who I feel like
might be a better fit for whereyour needs are right now and
then as you grow.
If there's something I can doto help, please let me know.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And I found the top two questions that when I'm
vetting clients or having thatconsole, number one, of course
we need to know budget.
So if someone comes at me andthey're like, oh, we don't
really know what a budget is,okay, well, here's my general
proposal to you.
You can take it, look at it andthen kind of see what it is.
But, like, if you're trying tohire somebody in the service
(19:43):
business, like, make sure you goin with a budget, especially
marketing wise.
Me and you know, understand,you've got to have a marketing
budget.
You know we talked about B&Ibeing $899 and how some people
don't want to spend that, youknow, on their budget.
And so it's like well, if yourbudget's less than $8.99 a year
anyways for marketing, we got toreevaluate, bro, like you got
to have more than that.
(20:03):
And then I think our second, mysecond favorite question is
asking them what theirexpectations are.
I used to be so scared to askpeople, well, what are your
expectations?
Because I was settingexpectations very high because
I'm type A, enneagram eight,that's what I do.
I set very high standards formyself.
(20:24):
When really they're like bro,if you just do like three posts
a week, we're chill, you knowyou're like, oh shit, I just
like stress myself out for noreason.
You know I didn't ask them whattheir expectations are or if
they're paying me for threeposts a week, but their
expectations are.
We want all this engagement.
Oh my gosh, now I'm, you know,not doing what I need to do
(20:44):
because I didn't set thoseexpectations or ask them what
they were at the very beginning.
So I definitely think askingbudget, asking expectations are
super important when you arehaving those consults.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
And here's what I'll tell you.
I'll tell you two things.
One Gardner study came out lastyear the 2023, the two things.
That goes back to what wetalked about just a few minutes
ago and the importance of socialand website, which is almost
75% of all business to businessreferral or, you know,
(21:17):
connections, right, they wouldrather do all their research
online before they call you toclose the deal.
So that's why it's important tohave your social aligned with
who you want to serve, how youwant to serve them.
The second thing I would say is,if you don't know where to
(21:38):
start with a marketing budget10% gross or net, you decide,
but 10% of your let's go withgross of your gross annual
revenue should go to marketing.
Yeah, 10%, and that is just tosay the same.
Right, if you want slow growth,12%.
(21:59):
If you want massive growth, 15to 20%.
Now, that varies, but you canlook it up online, you can
Google it.
10% is the industry standardand what I have found is that it
doesn't, you know.
That's why, again, going intostrategy, knowing the budget
(22:21):
translates.
So all of this translates intowhat strategy we do.
If you gave me, I've got aclient that'll spend $11,000 a
month in marketing strategy.
Okay, now I can say I'm goingto spend X amount of dollars on
social ads, I'm going to spend Xamount of dollars in this.
I now know where I want to putthat money.
(22:43):
If they said only $5,000 amonth, okay, then that strategy
is going to change.
I'm not going to run ads onGoogle and Facebook and
Instagram and YouTube.
I might go okay, who's yourideal target audience?
Okay, we're only going to runads on Instagram because your
niche is on Instagram.
(23:04):
Or, if your niche is an oldergeneration, we're only going to
run ads on Facebook.
So, knowing your budget,knowing your niche, knowing what
you're offering all of thosecome into play when we are
starting to execute a marketingstrategy for the business.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And small business owners.
You know, I personallyunderstand, when I first started
my window tint shop gosh 12years ago, I didn't know
anything about marketing.
So I that was back in the daywe did yellow page ads and I was
on TV doing ads because we didhouse tinting, you know.
So I was in the chamber, I wasin leads groups.
That was before social mediawas even around.
And so now we have thesedifferent, these different areas
(23:48):
where we can still market andto get.
I would love to get your opinion, because the things that I've
seen with trends and stuff likehard copy is what I kind of call
that marketing.
Hard copy marketing is comingback.
Mailers coming back, being onTV doing the Hulu ads, going on
TV shows the morning news shows,depending on if that's your
(24:08):
market or not and, honestly,people think that going on to
like it's local here, channel 7.
I make sure all my fundraisersI do were on Channel 7 or were
on Arkansas style, becausethey're also sharing that to
their social and their website.
People are like why do I wantto be on TV?
Why do I want to be interviewed?
Because they share it onlinetoo, and so I think that hard
(24:29):
copy marketing is coming back.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Absolutely.
Um, it's finding the right, theniche for that, but um, I have,
uh, my hog guys.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yes, we love your hog guys, my hog guys.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
They, we did a collaboration or we were doing
some advertising with a bigbrand and that brand puts out a
quarterly magazine and so we putan ad quarterly in a magazine
and we're getting click-throughs.
You know, we add a little QRcode in the corner and we get
(25:04):
clicks.
We get people who scan thatbecause they're sitting down in
their magazine.
Hard copies of magazines sit ona desk.
If they're really pretty,they'll sit on your coffee table
.
You know the these, the guy,the, the guy at hog guys.
You know that that sits athunting camp you know that goes
to the hunting camp and whenthey're sitting around at night
(25:26):
they're thumbing through it.
So it, yes, I would.
I would 100% agree.
You know digital.
There's even some speculation.
You know that digital is goingto.
I mean not speculation thatdigital is going to make a
transformation in the next threeto five years, absolutely.
(25:46):
So you start looking at what iswhat makes sense for your brand.
It doesn't make sense for everybrand, but it does make sense
for some brands to be in certainplaces.
I have a dermatology clinic.
They're in a local magazine.
We looked at a couple ofdifferent ones.
We picked one.
Now are there five in the area?
(26:09):
Absolutely, or more Sure, butwe wanted to go which one makes
the most sense for their targetaudience.
We chose one or two.
I think we're doing two.
So it, yeah, digital for sure.
And, and to your point,absolutely going on to any type
(26:31):
of new, if it makes sense.
Again, going back to is it partof the strategy?
But yeah, going on a newschannel, cause here's what
happens, like as you do youspeak to that is, they share it
on their social media.
You can reshare it, you canembed that link on your website.
Um, now that becomes socialproof.
(26:52):
Again, it's all about why do wedo all this?
Yeah, it's validating that youare who you say you are, that
you know what you know.
Yeah, it's validating that youare who you say you are, that
you know what you know.
And at the end of the day, whensomebody is searching all over
the internet to say, hey, isthis company legitimate?
They see you show up in all ofthese places versus someone else
(27:15):
.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
They're like oh well, let's give them a try because
they're looking and that's thenumber one thing that I get
asked as a marketer is how can Iget on Google?
It's like the most genericanswer ever, right?
It's like how can I get onGoogle?
It's like, well, do you have aGoogle business?
Yes, but it's not showing up.
Okay, we got to get Googlereviews.
Well, how do I do SEO?
(27:36):
It's not really how do you doSEO.
It just kind of does its thing.
Y'all Like SEO is just like athing.
It's just there.
You got to figure it out, justlike the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I like to say it's a mix of what works and voodoo
magic.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I have SEO experts that I love to death and they're
really good at what they do andI still think it's a little bit
of voodoo magic, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I totally 100%, because, honestly, if we knew
what SEO was, you know we wouldnot be on this podcast talking
about it.
I would tell you that becausewe'd be on the freaking beach
somewhere, because we'd be sofreaking rich and freaking nice
little Mai Tais, yeah, exactly.
Or what is the algorithm doingtoday?
I get that question a lot too,like I don't really know.
(28:21):
If I knew I would let you know.
But I kind of have an idea.
I do the research, I try tofigure it out, but none of us
really know.
You know they can act like theydo, but, bro, you don't really
know.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And here's what I like here's, here's what I say
to people who are looking for uh, when they look to marketers, I
like to say it's the practiceof marketing.
It's almost like a doctor,we've done, we've read the books
, we've gone to class, we'veperformed surgery, a couple of
our clients, right, yeah, butwe're still dealing with humans
(28:54):
and humans change, algorithmschange, businesses change.
You know, we know what works,but that's why it's called.
I call it the practice ofmarketing is because sometimes
it's taking what we know worksand testing it and then going
okay, well, the algorithmshifted this week or this month.
(29:15):
Youtube, for example, made ahuge shift, you know, a couple
of months ago.
Podcasting has made huge shiftsin the last several months.
Those are things that peopledon't notice necessarily right
away and they don't alwayspublicize when they make changes
(29:35):
.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Oh heck no.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
And so you're just going to want you to figure it
out.
Yeah, wait a minute, thisworked last month.
Why is it not working thismonth?
And then you go into digging.
So you know it's great.
You know, ask those questionsof of your professionals,
whoever you're hiring, whetheryou're hiring marketers or
someone else.
Ask those questions, becausewhat you're looking for in the
(29:57):
answer is well, right now, thisis what's working.
But, as we know, things shiftand change all the time.
That's why you hire me isbecause I'm going to pay
attention on a weekly or amonthly basis to see what's
changing, so that we can makeadjustments along the way.
That's what the results, that'swhat you want to hear, is hey,
(30:18):
I am learning, I am constantlyevolving, I'm constantly growing
as a professional, so we'regoing to continue to elevate or
keep moving you forward.
We just may have to make someadjustments.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, and if you're in an industry that you know
changes like what we're talkingabout with the marketing I've
learned that just being straightup with people is the easiest
way to sell yourself so easy, infact.
I've been so straightforwardwith someone.
They questioned if I knewanything.
I'm like I'm not selling you oncrap, like with the marketing.
(30:56):
Like there's a bunch of us andwe talk about, you know, people
we don't like, that we have incommon, that do what we do, and
so it's like you know, becausethat's what marketers do, y'all.
Okay, we talk crap about people, but anyway, so it's like they
sell themselves and they neverfollow through.
Or they sell this dream like wetalked about earlier, like the
multi-level marketing dream,like you could be a millionaire
(31:19):
in a year.
Like, shut up, you know, likebe realistic with your people
and be authentic to who you are,because ultimately, that's what
you're going to get back fromyour clients and you want them
to respect you.
And so that same person thatrejected me for being too honest
came to me three months latergoing.
I'm so sorry.
I hired the shiny person whenreally you were telling me the
(31:43):
truth.
And can we work together?
I have to freaking literallyfor $500 more a month after my
initial proposal.
You know it's like no y'all.
I'm sorry, but now I'm worthmore because you understand what
I'm worth now Sure.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Sure, and I think that goes back to if you find
the honest people, you know we.
I mean everything that we say.
Kate Middleton is a wonderfulcase study right now.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yes, it's so intriguing to follow all of this
.
It's so intriguing.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It really is, but, but there's.
So you know that's a, that's asilly example, but really want
people to say, I don't know, butI'm going to research and
figure it out, or this is what'sworking today.
We'll keep evaluating andtrusting, you know, making
adjustments along the way, the,the people that over.
(32:36):
I'm a person that can be avisionary person, so when I work
with companies, I can look atthem and go hey, you guys are a
$10 million company.
We just got to get you there.
Yeah, and there's a lot ofthings that need to happen
before we can get you to a $10million company, but we can get
you there, you know, but it'snot going to be like you're not
going to go from 5 million to 10million this year, like that's
(32:58):
just not going to happen, right,yeah, but that's what you want
is.
You want people to be honestwith you.
You don't want the shiny, happypeople.
They're great for a song, butthey're not good.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And they may dance if you ask them to, but they're
not going to perform well.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Right, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Right.
Or they'll lock you intocontracts that are months long
or take your freaking websiteafter you stop paying.
I'm like good Lord, the thingsthat me and you've gone through
with people about their websitesbeing taken down because they
stopped paying them.
I mean you have to payattention.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
We should do a whole podcast episode on things that
you should own, that you shouldknow.
Oh, good idea.
Regardless who you hire as amarketing strategist, yes,
textaging, whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Here's the thing Always own it.
Yes, I agree with that Y'allshould be looking forward to
that.
We'll do.
We'll do another podcast,because it's very important to
own your stuff, and that's againa different topic.
But ultimately today, like youknow, we just wanted you guys to
be educated on niching downyour clientele, understanding
how important it is and thenalso knowing your worth and that
it's OK to say no to people.
(34:09):
It's OK to fire clients.
I fired one last week that tookso much energy that once I
fired him, within three weeks Ihad three new clients that took
that same amount of energy,literally tripled my income
because I fired the one assholethat I was working for that took
all the energy, like she wastalking about earlier.
He wanted you know somethingfor nothing, took all my energy.
(34:30):
I was frustrated, did more workthan I should have, let him go
as a client and then got hiredby three people that guess what.
I don't even hear from them andthat's my clientele.
So if y'all are looking forsomeone to do social media for
you and you don't ever want totalk to me holla, that's who my
clientele is I don't want totalk to you but like I do, but
like I don't.
Like y'all are great, but likenot.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You want to, you want to.
I'm going to still watch it andmake sure it'd be like hey,
shelby, you could have done thisa little different, absolutely.
You know, when you're hiringprofessionals and just think in
general when you're hiring aprofessional, it doesn't matter
whether you're hiring an HVAC,you're hiring a marketing
professional, you're hiring adentist, like whoever right,
(35:22):
whoever you're hiring a travelagent like you, you're hiring
them because your time isvaluable and you want to trust
that they're going to do a goodjob, because your time is more
valuable than paying that personto do like you're hiring me or
you're hiring Shelby becauseyour time is more valuable at
(35:44):
doing the higher level work ofrunning a company, running a
business, running whatever,managing your team, than it is
sitting down and figuring outwhat is Google doing this week
and am I pinning enough thingsto my Pinterest board and how
many people clicked my socialmedia posts Like?
Your time is more valuable thanthat.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Absolutely, just like my time is more valuable than
writing content.
So that's why people that workfor me to write content I'll
help manage the content and thequality and the people.
So I mean, ultimately I don'teven work.
Now that I'm thinking about it,I have clients that don't talk
to me and then I hire people towrite the content for those
clients.
So I mean, like, what do I evendo?
(36:26):
Maybe that's why I have thispodcast, maybe that's it, maybe
that's it.
No.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Not.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Not at all.
You are so no not at all.
I wish what it is.
But seriously, I really enjoyedour conversation today.
Per the use, I'm sure we'll bedoing more together.
Um, we keep talking about doinglike a separate podcast, but we
both know we don't have timefor that, so we'll just do
multiple episodes on themarketing happy hour podcast and
you can kind of have like awe'll call it the shell segment
(36:53):
or come up with some fancy name.
Actually, we should ask theother BI members to come up,
since they're better atmarketing than we are usually.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Our group did kick tail.
They do their sales managermoment.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Me and Shell just wouldn't even go.
We'd be like you know what, youdon't even need us to do our
manager moment.
You guys know how to domarketing, like write hours for
us.
That'd be great, that'd beawesome.
Yeah, they always did a goodjob.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on today.
I look forward to moreconversations in the future and
(37:28):
I will catch everybody next week.
See y'all later.
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