December 3, 2025 • 43 mins
Enjoying the Show? Share Your Experience!
What happens when life forces you to pivot, and you finally give yourself permission to succeed? In this MarketPulse Pros & Pioneers episode, I sit down with David Birchmore, who went from a career in healthcare to building a business that helps others find the courage to make a change. His journey is full of lessons about resilience, self-awareness, and the importance of family.
David’s story begins with the dream of becoming a doctor – a dream that was brutally shattered. But instead of giving up, he found another way to live out his purpose of helping others. From healthcare to corporate life and eventually launching his own business, David’s journey is a powerful reminder that setbacks can become turning points.
In our conversation, David shares the pivotal life moments that shaped him, why every job has a purpose, and how he turned a side hustle into a full-time career. He also opens up about the challenges of ambition, burnout, and the traps of chasing prestige – and how breaking free led him to a more authentic and fulfilling life.
If you’ve ever felt stuck in the wrong job or pressured by expectations that don’t align with who you are, this episode will resonate deeply. David’s mission is to help 1,000 people leave jobs they hate, and his story proves that with courage and clarity, real change is possible.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:03):
what happens when you stop waiting for permission and
finally back yourself?
Welcome to this week'sMarketpulse pros and pioneers,
where this week I'm interviewingDavid Birchmore.
David's on a mission to help1000 people leave the jobs they
hate and build lives that theytruly love.
After 20 years in healthcare andworking for others, he realised
(00:26):
he wanted more time with hisyoung children and the freedom
to work on his own terms.
Post COVID, he took the leap andturned his longstanding interest
in entrepreneurship into afull-time reality.
David now runs Via Nova, aglobal consultancy that guides
people through the transitionfrom unfulfilling careers into
thriving businesses.
(00:47):
Alongside his consultancy, healso hosts a podcast where real
people share their stories ofchange.
Showing that backing yourselfreally can work out.
At his core david is driven by asimple truth.
He just loves helping peopleunlock a better future.
David.
Big welcome to the show.
I'm glad to have you on.
David (01:06):
Paul, thanks so much for having me.
A pleasure to be with you andthank you for the amazing and
lovely introduction.
Paul (01:13):
We do our best.
We do our best.
but genuinely, so for a littlebit of context for folks
watching along, I joined yourpodcast and I thoroughly enjoyed
the conversation.
So this is the return trip forus and I will pop the link for
that podcast in the show notesbelow.
So if you want to see my versionof David interviewing me, if
you're, if you are, mad enoughto want to listen that story,
(01:34):
then you're welcome to do so soI want to rewind back, David,
because, for the longest timeyou were in healthcare, but what
predated healthcare?
what was David?
as a young man, what were yourdreams and ambitions at that
point?
David (01:49):
Okay, so I wanted to be a doctor from about the age of 4.
I remember going round and aspeople always ask, oh, what do
you want to do when you get,when you grow up?
And I say Doctor, I don't reallyremember why or how that came
around.
but that was very much it.
And that was it for the longesttime, I don't think I ever
wanted to do anything else.
(02:10):
I remember and I've spoken aboutthis before on various channels,
giving CPR to a giant PinkPanther teddy I had and that was
it.
I was gonna be a doctor, thatwas it, age 16.
I was way at boarding school.
And I went on a pre-medicaldegree day, basically to, for
(02:35):
Nottingham University to sellmedics their course.
And it was great.
There's lots of blood, lots ofguts and gore really enjoyed it,
wanted to be a doctor more thanever.
And then it came to the academicbit and they said, oh, so you
need As and A Stars at GCSE andAs at a Level Okay, dream
shattered.
That was, I didn't have A's atGCSE and I certainly wasn't
(02:58):
gonna get A's at a level.
so that was it.
That was the end of the dream.
there were lots of tears, lotsof weeks of worry and then I
decided to use a career testthat we'd looked at some point
at school and I found radiotherapy, so the treatment of
people with cancer and Ithought, great, it still gets me
(03:18):
into the medical world andallows me to help people, which
as you've already alluded to, isreally the very core of
everything.
so that's what I did.
So I ended up at university, soactually healthcare is all I
ever really knew.
apart from working inWetherspoons.
The day I turned 18, I startedmy first shift in wetherspoons
and lasted about 3 and a halfyears.
dare I say, the best job I everhad.
(03:40):
I loved it.
I had such a good time.
Paul (03:42):
But I think you've already gotten to the crux of this
episode and the, it's the pointof your business.
It's the conversations thatwe've had is that, at an early
age, you'd already identifiednot just the career path that
you wanted to go into, but whyyou wanted to do it.
You already knew yourself.
Which is really unusual for alot of people.
(04:03):
people figure that out untilthey're old and they've lost all
their hair, which is where I'mat, right?
it's, to be fair, I was quiteyoung when I lost my hair, but
here.
David (04:11):
Yeah.
Paul (04:12):
I think that's, I wish more people could see that,
because it, that, that kind ofself-awareness is really
important
David (04:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's, I have alwaysknown deep down, I've obviously
had lots of different careers,lots of paths.
I've been very fortunate to havea great career.
Across the years, and I thinkknowing what I wanted to do has
both been a help and a hindrancebecause when I realised I
couldn't be a doctor, thatreally did throw me, it really
did stall me.
(04:39):
and I think I never, possiblynever quite recovered from it in
many respects, although I lookback now and realise actually I
wouldn't want to be a doctor,not with all the rubbish that's
going on and love the NHS, loveall the people that work in it,
but I clearly have a role inhelping people escape it now
because it isn't satisfactory.
So I think it, it's been it, Iwas young when I knew that I
(05:03):
wanted to help people and it hastaken me probably till now
really to kind of mold that andshape it.
But the whole 20, 25 years of mycareer has molded that and
shaped it and allowed me todefine what I want.
I grew up in a vicarage at theage of 7, I remember homeless
people, desperate people whowere sad, who'd been given bad
(05:26):
news, who'd had problemsknocking on our door.
We lived in a very deprived areain Essex and my dad was a vicar
and he was there to help andsupport people.
I think that rubbed off.
Both my parents were therehelping people and even if my
dad wasn't there and I canremember one chap in particular,
a real, a homeless guy, smelly,dirty, very sad life would come
(05:52):
and sit in our kitchen and mymum would just talk to him.
So I think that's really wherethat deep down need and desire
and want to help people actuallystems from.
Paul (06:03):
thats amazing.
what an interesting story and Iguess that helps make you aware
of empathy and compassion andall the things that are
necessary for helping people.
And I always say that likenobody, nobody gets into a
career for 15 years if theydon't really enjoy it.
Even if it is just aspects ofwhat they've done.
And I'm, my career in retail wasa similar sort of length, right?
(06:24):
And there were, I'm not gonnasay I hated the entire time.
I absolutely didn't.
I stayed too long is, what I'dsay.
But there were elements andquite a lot of elements in that
job that I really got a kick outof and I really enjoyed and
drove me forwards.
Was there, in your time in,healthcare, like what, first of
all, is a career in healthcarelook like?
(06:45):
And secondly, were there timeswhen you knew that there was
something more waiting for you,that you were waiting for the
right moment?
David (06:53):
I think I've always had itchy feet, always wanted to
move on to the next thing.
I was quite driven as a youngman, exceptionally arrogant.
I wanted to save the NHS, if notthe world single handedly.
as a fresh graduate, that was itI was going in and I was gonna
climb the tree and save thedying NHS And it was in a state
(07:15):
25 years ago but nowhere nearwhat it is now.
And I think that's what I wantedto do and I was always just
seeking the next best thing.
And I knew that healthcare wasthe right thing and I loved
working clinically and I had theopportunity to leave the
clinical environment and I thinkthat had probably always been
(07:36):
coming, if I'm honest.
I knew fairly early on in mydegree that I didn't want to be
a treatment radiographer as wewere called, forever.
I didn't want to be that personand it wouldn't satisfy what I
wanted.
so when I left and I joined thecorporate world and corporate
healthcare into one of the bigcompanies.
I knew it was the right thingand I enjoyed it.
(07:57):
I loved it.
I loved traveling the world.
I lived abroad, had amazingexperiences, but I was always
searching for the next thing,the next pay rise really is what
I was looking for.
What can I get, how can I do it?
and the foolishness of youthreally thinking that I could
climb this ladder probablywithout doing too much work and
just swan around Europe andAmerica drinking, living off
(08:21):
being English, foolish, But itwas always, it was the right
thing at the time
Paul (08:26):
yeah, and I think that's a trap that a lot of people fall
into though, is believing and weare, we're almost conditioned to
believe that, a successfulcareer and a happy job and the
best job in the world is themost highly paid one with the
nicest, bonuses and freebiesthat come with the job.
And it takes a lot of years ofmaturity for a lot of us to
(08:49):
realise that actually that's,the thing that's driving us to
an early grave.
David (08:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I see it now more and more,and I understand it more than I
ever have done.
And I think looking back, yes,it's the innocence of youth, the
ambition of youth.
And a lot down to personality.
I hope that my children have adifferent perspective from day
one and I think they will,because I think the system is
changing as a whole.
But I think I was in that trapand it took a job that I thought
(09:18):
would be the best thing in theworld and the most prestigious
thing in the world to actuallybreak me and that was my first
out of healthcare or at leastthe first time I thought.
This absolutely is not what Iwant to be chasing any longer
and I'd go to work, I'd becrying on the train, I'd have
palpitations and I did 11, 12months at this job and I look, I
(09:43):
will share, it was in HarleyStreet in London.
I was young, I was 26 andsomeone asked me to go and work
in Harley Street.
Now if you know anything abouthealthcare, you know that Harley
Street is probably one of themost prestigious places in the
world to work.
What young, arrogant man wasn'tgonna say no to being headhunted
to work there.
(10:04):
as it turns out, it wasabsolutely horrific and it
nearly broke me and I walked inone day and I said to the boss,
I quit and I'm leaving and Idid.
And I moved to Devon.
I went back to workingclinically and that was the
start again of I guess the newphase of life in a very big
transition
Paul (10:59):
I, like a, lot of people will give certain employers a
tough time of things, right?
but I'm a big believer thatactually, yes, there are some
toxic workplaces to work in andsome work cultures that are
outdated and need updating to2025 model.
But I actually think that for alot of people, they're just,
they're in the wrong culture forthem.
They believe that they're aspecific sort of person and a
(11:22):
specific and that they can dealwith that environment and
actually find out that theycan't and there therefore it
becomes toxic for them.
Not necessarily for everyone,but for them.
And.
I think that's the bit that weneed to help people understand a
bit better is what is it about,it's, less about the prestigious
nature of the job or the role,or the title or the money that
(11:44):
comes with it.
It's about how much time are yougonna get to spend each day
doing the sorts of things thatmake you truly happy and is it
gonna give you enough time doingthat to balance out the stuff
that won't be so fulfilling?
But, to your point, you'vealluded there, you, started on
this path to then bring yourselfcloser to the things that you
(12:05):
enjoy doing again, and, moveback towards that more, more
simple way of doing things.
David (12:10):
It's not right for you.
It's not right for thatindividual.
I think so many people arebrought up and almost forced
into a role because they thinkit's what they should be doing.
lots of people come fromfamilies that maybe are medics,
maybe military lawyers, and theyare forced almost down this path
(12:32):
of a career.
It's never what they want to do,but they feel like it's what
they should do.
And I think that's where theproblem starts, is when you're,
I talk about it and I talk aboutit being, having a career built
on a fault line because there'sa crack.
And it will appear at somepoint.
I don't necessarily think I wasforced into being in the
(12:53):
healthcare, but I think havingknown what I wanted to do, it
forced me down a path that maybeI would've taken slightly
differently if I'd not had thatreal burning desire to be a
doctor at such a young age.
I don't know.
I can't say, but I think, and I,there are so many people who are
(13:15):
on a career path like that andit just, it's about finding what
is right for that person.
Paul (13:21):
It is.
It is and I think, I wish careerguidance for young people lent
itself to that because I thinkwe kind of condition young
people to believe that theyeither need to be, a really well
paid, high earning professionalof some sort, or they're going
to be left collecting bins and,working on cars.
(13:43):
And I don't believe that there'sany differentiation between the
two.
It's simply about what makes youhappy.
And we need people to be able todo all of those rules and more.
We need to stop it.
It seems to be a very Britishthing actually.
and certainly a western,education system where we
belittle manual services andtrades people and almost threats
(14:06):
to young children who don'tstudy.
And I have a massive problemwith that because I have utmost
respect.
when a plasterer gives me aquote that is eye water.
I accept the quote generally,unless they, unless I think
they're really trying to screwme because I know that
plastering is an art form.
I've tried to plaster.
I'm, I've done plastering in myfirst house.
I was all right at it by thetime I plastered the entire
(14:27):
house from top to bottom.
But what I want to do it again,absolutely not.
Could I do it as well as aplaster?
no chance! It takes years ofskill determination.
and, but why do we threatenpeople?
if you don't work, if you don'tstudy really hard, you're gonna
end up in a call centre.
Why is a call centre a bad job?
David (14:45):
Absolutely.
Paul (14:46):
I know many people who started at the bottom in a call
centre and are now have theirown call centre company who are
CEOs, who are executivedirectors, who you know, and
there are so many careers outthere that we shouldn't because
they're seen as menial.
but actually highbrow jobsaren't.
David (15:04):
No, always
Paul (15:05):
what they're cracked up to be either.
So it's like, when are we gonnawake up
David (15:07):
absolutely.
And you, know that I've spokenabout it before, and I post
about it quite a bit onLinkedIn.
Being stuck in it in a highbrowcareer is as dangerous as being
a plaster or working in a callcentre or doing something for
yourself.
It just doesn't really make muchdifference.
And you're right, why should itbe?
(15:28):
Plastering painting, decorating.
I look around the state of mylounge, it's, I can't paint at
all.
And people need those jobs.
And of course the irony now isthat as AI comes more prevalent,
the chances are some of thosemore manual jobs will probably
be the ones that stay and aresustained through the technology
(15:53):
that comes.
So that's, yeah, it's veryinteresting.
And sorry, we diverted fromCOVID.
Paul (15:59):
It's quite all right.
I enjoyed, the littlesidetracks.
so Yeah.
COVID happened.
Where were you when COVIDhappened and
David (16:04):
Yeah, it was a really interesting time as it was, I
think for so many people anddefinitive for very many people
and i'd actually been maderedundant at the back end of
2019, and I thought right timeto go out on my own.
Fulfill that dream.
It started to fizz up beforethen and I got a, recruiter
called me and said, oh, wouldyou come and do this job?
(16:26):
I like, yeah, sure, why not?
I was un unemployed for 5 weeksin the end, good, bats with good
salary.
I was a medical rep forSouthwest, so not traveling the
whole country, which is what Ihad been doing and that must, I
think that was November, 2019.
So just getting into the strideof everything and then.
There was this funny thing goingon where people buying masks and
(16:48):
there was some rumblings aboutwhat might happen.
And I remember my now wife and Isitting in Salisbury the weekend
that the plane flew over fromChina and landed at Liverpool
and we're watching this on TVthinking that's all, it's all a
bit weird, something's not quiteright.
And I think he stopped at petrolstation on the way home and
(17:10):
bought some masks and some handgel because it seemed that was
what everyone had been doing.
And then of course, the biglockdown.
We moved in together.
We squashed our four childrenand the two of us into a two bed
house, so we could be together.
homeschooling was the biggestchallenge of it all, which just
cemented that I was never, evermeant to be a teacher.
(17:34):
As much as I might want to helppeople, I think I want to help.
Adults, not children.
God bless any teachers and I wasimmediately stopped from
working.
I was very fortunate that I wasemployed the whole way through.
but working for a diagnosticscompany, no one was doing
anything.
So I sat at home, the drinkscame out a bit earlier and
earlier, I actually went on adiet and lost a load of weight
because we realised that thiswould, could be quite serious if
(17:58):
we didn't.
I love spending time with thekids.
I look back at the photos and mychildren now will say, oh God,
we hate COVID.
It was horrible.
It was horrendous.
The reality is, I'm not sure howmuch they actually remember.
And when we look back at thephotos, we had a nice garden.
It was sunny.
We played, I went online andwe'd find activities to do.
(18:19):
There were lots of groups thatcame out, for parents to
entertain their children.
So we did a bit of schoolwork inthe morning.
Sometimes that works, sometimesit didn't.
And then we'd have fun and we'dgo on walks.
We used to walk 2, 3 miles aday, exploring the area.
We'd never been, we'd neverreally seen, because we're too
busy working.
And I, it was just a good time.
(18:40):
Don't get me wrong.
I know it's horrendous for somany people, and it was truly
horrific but for us, in ourlittle bubble, it was a good
time.
What it really made, both mywife and I feel was we didn't
want to go back to the waythings have been beforehand.
Like many people, we are notalone in this.
(19:02):
And I'd already had this thoughtof starting a cleaning company.
so it's funny you should touchon menial jobs, and I'll come
back to that in a minute.
And as COVID kind of ending Andlockdown released.
We said, let's start this.
We created a logo.
(19:22):
I'd done all of this duringlockdown, created a Facebook
page and asked a few friends,and suddenly we had some work.
and then I joined a networkinggroup against my better
judgment.
and suddenly we had offices toclean and we had people looking
for building cleans and, thetendencies and all sorts.
Suddenly this idea had balloonedall the while.
(19:45):
My wife was working nights in acare home.
I was still a rep for thecompany I'd been working for and
we balanced the two.
And I look back and it reallymakes me chuckle'because I'm not
really sure we managed it.
It was crazy time.
But it was the right thing.
And there was just that feelingof joy that we were doing our
own thing.
So actually we could, if webuilt this, we could spend time
(20:09):
with our children and make thatCOVID bubble and the way we'd
lived during COVID may be moreof a reality.
The thought of having to driveto Redding for a 7 o'clock
theatre appointment with mywork, just the fun.
The idea of it all just banishedas, I don't want this anymore.
(20:34):
And then my wife on a walk oneSunday, fell off the sea wall
down the road here and snappedher leg in 2.
I say that's because she wantedto get out.
It was easter Sunday.
So I say it's because she wantsto get out eating lamb, which
she doesn't like.
And I had the, an amazing pieceof lamb.
which went in the bin.
she snapped her leg in two and Iwas suddenly left with four
(20:57):
kids, two jobs and fairly minorin the grand scheme of things.
But that was the turning point,and that was it.
So I once again, quit myself,before we planned.
So we had a plan to moveforward, work the side by side,
see what we could do, raise somemoney, keep some money aside.
(21:17):
But actually space falling offthe wall really just catapulted
that decision, and I do notregret that decision in any way,
shape, or form.
And that was really the start ofliving the lifestyle and that
ambitious lifestyle that wewanted and that we had.
Paul (21:36):
I love that.
I love that turning point, and Ithink that's true of almost
every guest we've had on theshow is that there was, a
crucible that led them wherethey're meant to be.
the final turning point forpeople, and it's quite often
that moment of either clarity orcatastrophe, right?
It is a case of, for many of us,sadly, some people crumble by
the wayside and it's, reallytough for those people.
(21:59):
But for some of us, it is reallythat moment where we finally get
out of our cocoon and spread ourwings and figure out what it is
that, that we're being pushedtowards doing.
And so you set out on buildingyour career consultancy whilst
launching a podcast at
David (22:15):
Thank you.
Paul (22:16):
so congratulations on the podcast as well, because I know
you are.
How many episodes are you innow?
David (22:21):
I've actually just launched 30 today.
Paul (22:24):
30?
Good grief, right?
So yeah, you are flying now.
Well
David (22:28):
done! Thank you
Paul (22:29):
it's so hard to get past episode 10 even for so many
people.
what's been the hardest part?
Since setting out on your own,was there a point where you just
thought, do you know what?
I've made a mistake of here,maybe i shouldn't be doing
David (22:44):
Yeah, monthly, weekly, daily.
Sometimes hourly.
Ah, no.
Look, you know what it's like.
It's, there are hard times and Iwill be the first to admit that
there are tears, there aretantrums, there are days I want
to jack it all in and find a joband then I stop and I think what
(23:07):
I actually have and my childrenwill always come first.
That's why I left full-timeemployment.
So on the days where it's badand it's hard, I then remember,
actually I've got school run.
I can get my kids, my son's gotrugby match, I'll be at the
rugby match.
So that outweighs all thehardships and look, it's not
(23:30):
easy.
Being employed is for the mostpart, a cushy little number.
You have your pay at the end ofthe month.
You're told what to do.
You have a support team aroundyou that when you need
something, when you have an ITproblem, you have someone to go
to.
When you have a finance problem,you have someone to go to, you
(23:52):
submit your receipts, andsuddenly you get paid your
expenses.
Wow.
I do all of that and I love it,but I also surround myself with
the right people who help me onthat route.
And I think that's the key toit, is finding the right people
and meeting amazing people,making connections like you and
I have done, where you can askquestions, you can have that
support to see you through someof those really hard times.
(24:17):
but quite simply, I will nevergo back to full-time employment.
I couldn't.
I was probably unemployable anda pain in the arse from day one.
It's just taken me 20 odd yearsto work that out.
Paul (24:28):
I think that's you and I connect so well, right?
Like we're both very why thatsame boat now and Yeah, there's
been times when, since startingmy own business, I've thought,
you know what I should but thisis really tough.
Cash flow's not where I wantedit to be at times and I'm
looking around the house and I'mthinking, you know what, I could
be getting paid 3 times what I'mcurrently earning at that point
(24:49):
in time.
And then I think, yeah, nobodywould employ you anymore Paul,
because you just, yeah.
You've broken yourself in thatregard because I just, I
couldn't go back to being toldwhat to do anymore.
I, now that I have that freedomand now that I know that I can
be in some modicum of the wordsuccessful, in however we're
(25:12):
gonna view that word.
I enjoy that too much to go backto being
David (25:16):
told what to do Yeah.
Yeah.
and critisied
Paul (25:18):
in the way that I
David (25:19):
Yeah.
do
Paul (25:19):
it, and that, for me as a neurodiverse person, as an ADHD
dad, I, that's the bit, Istruggle with the heaviest
because when I look back on mycareer now, knowing now what I
know about my myself and the waymy neurodiversity is, I just
think everything I've ever beencriticised for was outta my
control.
(25:39):
Because, and, it's the same fora lot of people, right?
We go to work to do a good job.
Nobody goes to work to do a badjob, but I've never once in that
15 year career had anyconversation with anyone in any
serious capacity aboutneurodiversity.
And had I realised my traits andI struggle to call them.
Anything negative because I lovebeing ADHD and I don't get me
(26:02):
wrong, I know there are plentyof people out there who
absolutely hate being ADHDbecause they are far worsely
afflicted than I am.
And what is a superpower for meisn't as super powerful for
other people.
So I don't get me wrong, Isympathise with that, and
empathise with it.
But for me it was a superpower.
but for everything that Istruggled with, I now know that
(26:22):
actually I did give it my best.
It wasn't that I wasn't tryinghard enough, it was that I'm
incapable of those thingsbecause that's just not the way
my brain works.
And so if for no other reasonthan the fact that it's given me
the space to understand myselfbetter,
David (26:38):
Yeah, am so
Paul (26:39):
happy that I did set out on my own journey
David (26:41):
and that's so important.
I think you.
You are not alone in thinkingand feeling that and people are
so compressed by thattraditional 9 to 5 that we talk
about.
And employees, employers, sorry,are obsessed with people working
to rule and there's a place forthat.
And again, great that somepeople do.
(27:03):
It doesn't give that flexibilityfor people that think or work
differently.
And I think that's why so manypeople feel so unhappy and
restless and just don't quitefit in'because you're trying to
be molded to a system thatdoesn't really work for
everybody.
And the sooner we realise that,the better.
(27:25):
And of course the irony of itall is probably for you and I,
is that if we were to go for ajob.
The chances are might be whereyou're a bit overqualified or
under or overqualified, and youmight get bored instead of
seeing it as a real positive andsaying, look at all this
experience you've got.
Come on board, hang on.
(27:46):
You've applied for a job whereyou want to take a lower grade.
Come work for us.
we'll use you and build you upagain.
But people don't see that.
They just see, oh, hang on,you've been a company director,
you've done your own thing orno, why would you want to come
and do this again?
Just
Paul (28:01):
Why would you want
David (28:01):
so shortsighted, and that for me sums up that whole kind
of 9 to 5 corporate culture.
Paul (28:07):
And I, I think everybody, like in 2025, I think a lot of
people are stuck in that way ofthinking, I introduced, I was
talking with a guy the otherday, so a good friend of mine is
looking for consultancy work forstartups and small businesses.
I put
David (28:21):
a post Yeah,
Paul (28:22):
out on LinkedIn.
He's a very good friend of mine.
He doesn't want to be namedpublicly, he just wants to find
a bit of quiet, private workthat he can help people with or
for a couple of months to helpyou know him in his situation as
he is at the moment.
And I was talking with a guy whowas interested in his help and
he could not get his head aroundthe idea that I was not
benefiting commercially fromhelping my friend.
(28:42):
He's like, I don't understandwhy you're helping him.
If you are not working for himor you are not getting paid by
him is, and, he actually gottathe point where he asked me,
have you built an AI that'sreally clever?
And fair play to you if youhave, that you are pretending is
your friend, and you're justgonna pass me information from
this ai.
And I was like, ha.
We're going to take your tinfoil hat off.
(29:04):
I'm not that clever.
and actually no, I'm nottransactionally driven.
I just want to help my friend.
But that attitude is notuncommon.
That is not unusual.
And we laugh about it, but howsad is it that's the world that
we live in now?
That people assume that's the,my motivation, That aside, I
want to bring us back a littlebit on track.
So you've got a podcast 30episodes in called,
David (29:26):
yeah, get a shift
Paul (29:27):
Why Start That?
What was your purpose behindthat, David?
David (29:30):
It was actually never in the initial plan with my
business.
I think I fell into it.
What I realised fairly early onis, that sharing people's
stories is exceptionallypowerful.
Making real human connection issuper powerful and as you,
you've just alluded to gettingaway from that transactional
(29:54):
feeling that so many people seemto have.
So I started it.
I, in True Me style, just wentheadlong into it, created some
imagery, read up how to do it,found a platform and it said
create 3 episodes before you gettoo far.
So I did exactly that and Ilinked with someone on LinkedIn,
(30:17):
a GP who's doing some amazingresearch around watercress and
he was my first guest.
And I guess it has justsnowballed from there.
And it has been so fascinatingto meet so many different people
from all walks of life.
And the whole premise of thepodcast is to showcase that
career change is absolutelypossible.
(30:39):
And as I'm sure you are wellaware, when you see a real life
story, it's much moreinteresting than me sitting
there saying, oh yes, you can dothis, and this.
And that really helps you getout of the job that you are
stuck in.
But when you see that peoplehave done it from all walks of
life, I've had.
that gp, I've had other gpswho've gone on to do other
(31:02):
things'because they don't feelthey can work any longer in the
NHS and the way it'sfunctioning.
I've had teachers, I've hadcivil servants, I've had ex
rugby players from both thelocal and English team.
its just been a reallyfascinating journey and it's
been nice as well because Imanaged to speak to some of my
friends.
(31:22):
One of which a guy called Ollie,we went boarding school
together.
I've known him probably longerthan I've known most people and
we shared a room for a very longtime as well.
And we've had very differentcareers and he's done amazing
things.
He runs a marketing company andhe is worked with Liquid Death,
and he's just like his owncompany.
But it's really fascinating tohear his story, having known him
(31:46):
all those years.
To understand how people developand change.
And I hope that people watchingit and, my subscribers are few
and far between.
I can't even claim my mam's oneof them'because I don't think
she really understands what apodcast is.
but if she could, she would.
but those figures are growing,but actually it's, for me, it's
(32:07):
not about that.
It's about helping as manypeople as I can.
On my mission to help a thousandpeople leave the jobs they hate.
And if I can just help oneperson by sharing someone else's
story, then that makes me happy.
So episode 30 out today, whoknows?
Will it grow?
(32:27):
Will I get some money for it atsome point?
I don't know.
And that's, it was never in theplan, so it's never been my
driving force, but I am lovingmeeting people and getting the
opportunity to speak to justdifferent people.
Paul (32:38):
And nor should it be part of your plan, David, I and I
applaud that if
David (32:41):
Yeah.
Paul (32:41):
it happens, it happens..
But money, shouldn't be amotivator for most podcasts,
unless you are, you've got the,connections and the money
upfront to be able to turn itinto
David (32:52):
Yeah.
something super
Paul (32:52):
premium.
then for most of us, you'veabsolutely nailed it.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna admitsomething here live or not live
because for a couple of monthsahead, but my mum is a follower
my podcast, so mam hiya, gladyou're watching.
i'm not going to lie, i forciblysigned her up in the beginning
because I wanted some extrasubscribers.
(33:14):
but my mam does watch everyweek.
she watches it after, she's hadher dinner on an evening.
she's, Very lost sometimes bysome of the conversations that
we have, but she loves watching.
ano, it's nice, my mum
David (33:28):
I love that.
Paul (33:29):
watches my show David forcibly sign your mum up.
You'll be very surprised howeducated she gets about podcast
once she starts watching.
but yeah, I, guess thinkingabout everything that you've
learned since.
Moving into your own businessand all the advice that you give
to people, the work that you nowdo with, individuals stuck in
(33:50):
their rules.
And as somebody who worked indiscount retail, right?
Like I know there are a lot ofpeople who are, in the wrong job
for them and they're desperateto get out.
I was one of those people onceall I could ever see myself
doing was more of the same for adifferent company for a
different brand.
And I honestly thought thateverybody on LinkedIn was, I'm
gonna say it out loud, sorry,mam.
(34:12):
Was full of shit.
I genuinely thought it was allsmoke and mirrors and it was,
the only people that weresuccessful are the ones that
already had money to start withwho were trying to ram their
market and methods down ourthought.
I'm living proof that's nottrue.
However, I'm conscious that I'veprobably joined that band of
people that I wouldn't havebelieved if I was in that role
(34:32):
Still.
if someone's listening alongtoday and they suspect I'm full
of crap and maybe think that youare a little bit full of crap, I
hope not, but maybe they do.
What could they do today toprove to themselves that there
is something else out there thatthey could be doing that would
make them far happier?
That isn't the role that they'redoing now in a different
David (34:52):
That's a great question and yeah, i think you're right.
We are probablallle full of shitin our own way but you have to
get through that.
And genuine communication,genuine connections, like The
type that we have, I think isvery important to see through
some of that.
think if you are really stuck ina role in a job and you know
(35:16):
there's something else, I thinkthe first thing to do is truly
identify what makes you happyand what skills you have that
could see you out of it.
And I'll give you an example.
I was speaking to a chap theother day, works in healthcare,
not sure what to do.
Has a well-paid job, fairly highup, has done a master's, so he
(35:39):
is got all the right thingsshould we say, that one would
expect to have, but actually isreally not very happy.
So we had a conversation and Isaid to him, okay, so what is it
that you'd like to do?
Really, if you took away all thebarriers?
Take away the money, take awaywhat people might say, take away
the fear of that change.
(36:00):
And his eyes lit up and he said,I think I've always wanted to
have a pizza cafe that servesgreat coffee.
But his eyes shone at thatthought.
I was like, and that's the key.
That's what you need to do.
Paul (36:14):
Yep.
David (36:14):
I think so many people that I speak to have somewhere
deep down, that burning desire,that burning wish to do
something but have stopped forwhatever reason.
And it's about finding what thatis again and you might stumble
across it.
It might be something thatyou've always wanted to do but
never had the real, thepossibility.
(36:38):
But when you get to a pointwhere you are so stuck, I think
you're willing to try anythingto get out.
And if you've got that inkling,then do something.
And whenever I have a call withsomeone, I always offer three
calls for people to start with.
I will give them three actionsto do because it's about moving
forward.
And if you are that stuck, ifthat rusty nail is that rusty,
(37:01):
then you have to do something.
So tho3ree actions, it could beanything.
Think, just imagine what youwant to do.
What skills do you really enjoyusing, ask a friend.
So I think it's really pinningdown what lights you up, what
gives you that joy, and thenfinding a way to manage it and
taking even just small steps.
And it's very cliche, it's very,it is what it is, some of that
(37:26):
fluff.
But actually it's true.
If you don't take that step, younever move anywhere and you get
stuck in yourself.
And then that's just that, cycleof misery and then you make
everyone else miserable.
So it's about doing it for youand everyone else around you.
i
Paul (37:43):
think there's a, couple of things that I would add to that
in that, first of all have anidea of what you want to do, but
be prepared for that to changeas you get closer to whatever
you're heading towards.
Because quite honestly, I neverintended to set up a marketing
company of any sort.
I never intended to end up, ifyou told me 10 years ago, I'd be
working around video editing andrepurposing and working with
(38:04):
podcasts, I would've laughed sohard in your face.
And, I would've definitelyraised my eyebrows at who I am
today.
But here I am thoroughlyenjoying myself, My goal was to
get out.
I found a role using technology,which I love working with
technology, and that was astepping stone to where I am
now.
But always be listening to whatmakes you happy in the moment,
(38:26):
and be looking for a, way tofind more of those little things
that you do every day that makeyou much happier.
My second thing would be ifperhaps you are not ready to
talk to somebody like David yet,and you like, like I say, I
still suspect that I'm full ofcrap.
Then there is a tool out therecalled chat GPT.
You may have heard of it, youmay not.
(38:47):
A lot of people, it's surprisinghow many people in corporate
roles in retail, have never evenconsidered chat gPT or Claude or
Gemini or whatever versions onyour phone have a conversation
with it.
You would be surprised howinsightful it is at identifying
what makes you happy and whatskill sets you have.
It is there, it's a, it can bevery constructive.
(39:10):
and critical thinking for you ina way that gives you that
confidence to have aconversation with a real person.
Next and that's where I'd gowith it is try a prompt along
the lines.
You don't need to be an expertto write prompts in, in AI these
days.
Just try something along thelines of, I want you to act as a
career change consultant.
I'm gonna tell you what job Ido, I'm gonna describe it to the
(39:33):
best of my ability, and I'llmaybe even upload your CV into
it and it'll ingest that.
Conscious of data every once orI'll give you that warning as
well.
you load something, it's theirs.
but feed that information in andsee what it comes back with and
ask it some questions and ask itto ask you questions.
And maybe that's a good startingpoint for a lot of people who
are thinking about it, butaren't quite brave enough yet or
(39:56):
haven't committed.
Because the other thing that Iwould say to people is you need
to be in the right point in
David (40:02):
time Yeah.
Paul (40:02):
to make that pivot.
If you are still dithering aboutdoing it and you thinking about
it, but then you never go and doit, when is the right time?
When are you ever gonna do it?
You've gotta find a point intime and there will never be a
perfect moment.
You'll never be able to affordit.
You'll never have loads of moneyin the bank.
There's a comfort buffer, so youcan go and do it, and quite
honestly, if you did, youwouldn't make a success of it.
(40:24):
Sometimes just doing it by theseat of your goddamn pants.
Getting out there and beingterrified is what makes u
successful
David (40:30):
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
i'm
Paul (40:32):
not gonna lie.
David (40:33):
Yeah.
Paul (40:33):
I love it.
David, thank you so much forwhat has been a wonderful, I
genuinely love helping peoplewith careers and things like
that as well.
I don't want to be, I don't wantto make it my job, but I love
hearing the passion that youhave for helping people, and I'd
always encourage anybody ifthey're interested to go and
talk
David (40:49):
with you Thank you.
Paul (40:50):
I will make sure your contact details and everything
from Via Nova are included inthe
David (40:53):
Amazing.
Paul (40:54):
show notes
David (40:55):
you.
Paul (40:55):
Is there anything that you'd leave the audience with
before we, end the episode?
David (40:59):
First of all, thank you.
Thank you for the connectionthat we've made and the
friendship that we've made aswell.
I think what I would leavepeople with and touch on your
point is allow there to be thathuman connection.
Look through the fluff onLinkedIn or any other platform.
(41:20):
And you said then that allowthings to change and be prepared
that things might change.
It's amazing when you giveyourself the opportunity to be
open and free of constrainedthought, the opportunities that
present themself to you.
I never thought I'd be doingwhat I'm doing much like
(41:42):
yourself, but I let myself.
Go.
I just give myself permission tobe free, as it were.
And it's amazing what you findworks.
Podcasting is just anotherexample.
Never thought I'd do it, and yethere I am.
So give yourself the opportunityto enjoy something and see where
(42:05):
it takes you.
Paul (42:06):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much for your wisewords today, David.
David (42:09):
Thanks, Paul, for the opportunity.
Paul (42:10):
And I will see all of you.
Make sure you subscribe, makesure you give us a follow up.
We'll see you next week calledMarketPulse Pros and Pioneers.
what happens when you stop waiting for permission and
finally back yourself?
Welcome to this week'sMarketpulse pros and pioneers,
where this week I'm interviewingDavid Birchmore.
David's on a mission to help1000 people leave the jobs they
hate and build lives that theytruly love.
After 20 years in healthcare andworking for others, he realised
(00:26):
he wanted more time with hisyoung children and the freedom
to work on his own terms.
Post COVID, he took the leap andturned his longstanding interest
in entrepreneurship into afull-time reality.
David now runs Via Nova, aglobal consultancy that guides
people through the transitionfrom unfulfilling careers into
thriving businesses.
(00:47):
Alongside his consultancy, healso hosts a podcast where real
people share their stories ofchange.
Showing that backing yourselfreally can work out.
At his core david is driven by asimple truth.
He just loves helping peopleunlock a better future.
David.
Big welcome to the show.
I'm glad to have you on.
David (01:06):
Paul, thanks so much for having me.
A pleasure to be with you andthank you for the amazing and
lovely introduction.
Paul (01:13):
We do our best.
We do our best.
but genuinely, so for a littlebit of context for folks
watching along, I joined yourpodcast and I thoroughly enjoyed
the conversation.
So this is the return trip forus and I will pop the link for
that podcast in the show notesbelow.
So if you want to see my versionof David interviewing me, if
you're, if you are, mad enoughto want to listen that story,
(01:34):
then you're welcome to do so soI want to rewind back, David,
because, for the longest timeyou were in healthcare, but what
predated healthcare?
what was David?
as a young man, what were yourdreams and ambitions at that
point?
David (01:49):
Okay, so I wanted to be a doctor from about the age of 4.
I remember going round and aspeople always ask, oh, what do
you want to do when you get,when you grow up?
And I say Doctor, I don't reallyremember why or how that came
around.
but that was very much it.
And that was it for the longesttime, I don't think I ever
wanted to do anything else.
(02:10):
I remember and I've spoken aboutthis before on various channels,
giving CPR to a giant PinkPanther teddy I had and that was
it.
I was gonna be a doctor, thatwas it, age 16.
I was way at boarding school.
And I went on a pre-medicaldegree day, basically to, for
(02:35):
Nottingham University to sellmedics their course.
And it was great.
There's lots of blood, lots ofguts and gore really enjoyed it,
wanted to be a doctor more thanever.
And then it came to the academicbit and they said, oh, so you
need As and A Stars at GCSE andAs at a Level Okay, dream
shattered.
That was, I didn't have A's atGCSE and I certainly wasn't
(02:58):
gonna get A's at a level.
so that was it.
That was the end of the dream.
there were lots of tears, lotsof weeks of worry and then I
decided to use a career testthat we'd looked at some point
at school and I found radiotherapy, so the treatment of
people with cancer and Ithought, great, it still gets me
(03:18):
into the medical world andallows me to help people, which
as you've already alluded to, isreally the very core of
everything.
so that's what I did.
So I ended up at university, soactually healthcare is all I
ever really knew.
apart from working inWetherspoons.
The day I turned 18, I startedmy first shift in wetherspoons
and lasted about 3 and a halfyears.
dare I say, the best job I everhad.
(03:40):
I loved it.
I had such a good time.
Paul (03:42):
But I think you've already gotten to the crux of this
episode and the, it's the pointof your business.
It's the conversations thatwe've had is that, at an early
age, you'd already identifiednot just the career path that
you wanted to go into, but whyyou wanted to do it.
You already knew yourself.
Which is really unusual for alot of people.
(04:03):
people figure that out untilthey're old and they've lost all
their hair, which is where I'mat, right?
it's, to be fair, I was quiteyoung when I lost my hair, but
here.
David (04:11):
Yeah.
Paul (04:12):
I think that's, I wish more people could see that,
because it, that, that kind ofself-awareness is really
important
David (04:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's, I have alwaysknown deep down, I've obviously
had lots of different careers,lots of paths.
I've been very fortunate to havea great career.
Across the years, and I thinkknowing what I wanted to do has
both been a help and a hindrancebecause when I realised I
couldn't be a doctor, thatreally did throw me, it really
did stall me.
(04:39):
and I think I never, possiblynever quite recovered from it in
many respects, although I lookback now and realise actually I
wouldn't want to be a doctor,not with all the rubbish that's
going on and love the NHS, loveall the people that work in it,
but I clearly have a role inhelping people escape it now
because it isn't satisfactory.
So I think it, it's been it, Iwas young when I knew that I
(05:03):
wanted to help people and it hastaken me probably till now
really to kind of mold that andshape it.
But the whole 20, 25 years of mycareer has molded that and
shaped it and allowed me todefine what I want.
I grew up in a vicarage at theage of 7, I remember homeless
people, desperate people whowere sad, who'd been given bad
(05:26):
news, who'd had problemsknocking on our door.
We lived in a very deprived areain Essex and my dad was a vicar
and he was there to help andsupport people.
I think that rubbed off.
Both my parents were therehelping people and even if my
dad wasn't there and I canremember one chap in particular,
a real, a homeless guy, smelly,dirty, very sad life would come
(05:52):
and sit in our kitchen and mymum would just talk to him.
So I think that's really wherethat deep down need and desire
and want to help people actuallystems from.
Paul (06:03):
thats amazing.
what an interesting story and Iguess that helps make you aware
of empathy and compassion andall the things that are
necessary for helping people.
And I always say that likenobody, nobody gets into a
career for 15 years if theydon't really enjoy it.
Even if it is just aspects ofwhat they've done.
And I'm, my career in retail wasa similar sort of length, right?
(06:24):
And there were, I'm not gonnasay I hated the entire time.
I absolutely didn't.
I stayed too long is, what I'dsay.
But there were elements andquite a lot of elements in that
job that I really got a kick outof and I really enjoyed and
drove me forwards.
Was there, in your time in,healthcare, like what, first of
all, is a career in healthcarelook like?
(06:45):
And secondly, were there timeswhen you knew that there was
something more waiting for you,that you were waiting for the
right moment?
David (06:53):
I think I've always had itchy feet, always wanted to
move on to the next thing.
I was quite driven as a youngman, exceptionally arrogant.
I wanted to save the NHS, if notthe world single handedly.
as a fresh graduate, that was itI was going in and I was gonna
climb the tree and save thedying NHS And it was in a state
(07:15):
25 years ago but nowhere nearwhat it is now.
And I think that's what I wantedto do and I was always just
seeking the next best thing.
And I knew that healthcare wasthe right thing and I loved
working clinically and I had theopportunity to leave the
clinical environment and I thinkthat had probably always been
(07:36):
coming, if I'm honest.
I knew fairly early on in mydegree that I didn't want to be
a treatment radiographer as wewere called, forever.
I didn't want to be that personand it wouldn't satisfy what I
wanted.
so when I left and I joined thecorporate world and corporate
healthcare into one of the bigcompanies.
I knew it was the right thingand I enjoyed it.
(07:57):
I loved it.
I loved traveling the world.
I lived abroad, had amazingexperiences, but I was always
searching for the next thing,the next pay rise really is what
I was looking for.
What can I get, how can I do it?
and the foolishness of youthreally thinking that I could
climb this ladder probablywithout doing too much work and
just swan around Europe andAmerica drinking, living off
(08:21):
being English, foolish, But itwas always, it was the right
thing at the time
Paul (08:26):
yeah, and I think that's a trap that a lot of people fall
into though, is believing and weare, we're almost conditioned to
believe that, a successfulcareer and a happy job and the
best job in the world is themost highly paid one with the
nicest, bonuses and freebiesthat come with the job.
And it takes a lot of years ofmaturity for a lot of us to
(08:49):
realise that actually that's,the thing that's driving us to
an early grave.
David (08:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I see it now more and more,and I understand it more than I
ever have done.
And I think looking back, yes,it's the innocence of youth, the
ambition of youth.
And a lot down to personality.
I hope that my children have adifferent perspective from day
one and I think they will,because I think the system is
changing as a whole.
But I think I was in that trapand it took a job that I thought
(09:18):
would be the best thing in theworld and the most prestigious
thing in the world to actuallybreak me and that was my first
out of healthcare or at leastthe first time I thought.
This absolutely is not what Iwant to be chasing any longer
and I'd go to work, I'd becrying on the train, I'd have
palpitations and I did 11, 12months at this job and I look, I
(09:43):
will share, it was in HarleyStreet in London.
I was young, I was 26 andsomeone asked me to go and work
in Harley Street.
Now if you know anything abouthealthcare, you know that Harley
Street is probably one of themost prestigious places in the
world to work.
What young, arrogant man wasn'tgonna say no to being headhunted
to work there.
(10:04):
as it turns out, it wasabsolutely horrific and it
nearly broke me and I walked inone day and I said to the boss,
I quit and I'm leaving and Idid.
And I moved to Devon.
I went back to workingclinically and that was the
start again of I guess the newphase of life in a very big
transition
Paul (10:59):
I, like a, lot of people will give certain employers a
tough time of things, right?
but I'm a big believer thatactually, yes, there are some
toxic workplaces to work in andsome work cultures that are
outdated and need updating to2025 model.
But I actually think that for alot of people, they're just,
they're in the wrong culture forthem.
They believe that they're aspecific sort of person and a
(11:22):
specific and that they can dealwith that environment and
actually find out that theycan't and there therefore it
becomes toxic for them.
Not necessarily for everyone,but for them.
And.
I think that's the bit that weneed to help people understand a
bit better is what is it about,it's, less about the prestigious
nature of the job or the role,or the title or the money that
(11:44):
comes with it.
It's about how much time are yougonna get to spend each day
doing the sorts of things thatmake you truly happy and is it
gonna give you enough time doingthat to balance out the stuff
that won't be so fulfilling?
But, to your point, you'vealluded there, you, started on
this path to then bring yourselfcloser to the things that you
(12:05):
enjoy doing again, and, moveback towards that more, more
simple way of doing things.
David (12:10):
It's not right for you.
It's not right for thatindividual.
I think so many people arebrought up and almost forced
into a role because they thinkit's what they should be doing.
lots of people come fromfamilies that maybe are medics,
maybe military lawyers, and theyare forced almost down this path
(12:32):
of a career.
It's never what they want to do,but they feel like it's what
they should do.
And I think that's where theproblem starts, is when you're,
I talk about it and I talk aboutit being, having a career built
on a fault line because there'sa crack.
And it will appear at somepoint.
I don't necessarily think I wasforced into being in the
(12:53):
healthcare, but I think havingknown what I wanted to do, it
forced me down a path that maybeI would've taken slightly
differently if I'd not had thatreal burning desire to be a
doctor at such a young age.
I don't know.
I can't say, but I think, and I,there are so many people who are
(13:15):
on a career path like that andit just, it's about finding what
is right for that person.
Paul (13:21):
It is.
It is and I think, I wish careerguidance for young people lent
itself to that because I thinkwe kind of condition young
people to believe that theyeither need to be, a really well
paid, high earning professionalof some sort, or they're going
to be left collecting bins and,working on cars.
(13:43):
And I don't believe that there'sany differentiation between the
two.
It's simply about what makes youhappy.
And we need people to be able todo all of those rules and more.
We need to stop it.
It seems to be a very Britishthing actually.
and certainly a western,education system where we
belittle manual services andtrades people and almost threats
(14:06):
to young children who don'tstudy.
And I have a massive problemwith that because I have utmost
respect.
when a plasterer gives me aquote that is eye water.
I accept the quote generally,unless they, unless I think
they're really trying to screwme because I know that
plastering is an art form.
I've tried to plaster.
I'm, I've done plastering in myfirst house.
I was all right at it by thetime I plastered the entire
(14:27):
house from top to bottom.
But what I want to do it again,absolutely not.
Could I do it as well as aplaster?
no chance! It takes years ofskill determination.
and, but why do we threatenpeople?
if you don't work, if you don'tstudy really hard, you're gonna
end up in a call centre.
Why is a call centre a bad job?
David (14:45):
Absolutely.
Paul (14:46):
I know many people who started at the bottom in a call
centre and are now have theirown call centre company who are
CEOs, who are executivedirectors, who you know, and
there are so many careers outthere that we shouldn't because
they're seen as menial.
but actually highbrow jobsaren't.
David (15:04):
No, always
Paul (15:05):
what they're cracked up to be either.
So it's like, when are we gonnawake up
David (15:07):
absolutely.
And you, know that I've spokenabout it before, and I post
about it quite a bit onLinkedIn.
Being stuck in it in a highbrowcareer is as dangerous as being
a plaster or working in a callcentre or doing something for
yourself.
It just doesn't really make muchdifference.
And you're right, why should itbe?
(15:28):
Plastering painting, decorating.
I look around the state of mylounge, it's, I can't paint at
all.
And people need those jobs.
And of course the irony now isthat as AI comes more prevalent,
the chances are some of thosemore manual jobs will probably
be the ones that stay and aresustained through the technology
(15:53):
that comes.
So that's, yeah, it's veryinteresting.
And sorry, we diverted fromCOVID.
Paul (15:59):
It's quite all right.
I enjoyed, the littlesidetracks.
so Yeah.
COVID happened.
Where were you when COVIDhappened and
David (16:04):
Yeah, it was a really interesting time as it was, I
think for so many people anddefinitive for very many people
and i'd actually been maderedundant at the back end of
2019, and I thought right timeto go out on my own.
Fulfill that dream.
It started to fizz up beforethen and I got a, recruiter
called me and said, oh, wouldyou come and do this job?
(16:26):
I like, yeah, sure, why not?
I was un unemployed for 5 weeksin the end, good, bats with good
salary.
I was a medical rep forSouthwest, so not traveling the
whole country, which is what Ihad been doing and that must, I
think that was November, 2019.
So just getting into the strideof everything and then.
There was this funny thing goingon where people buying masks and
(16:48):
there was some rumblings aboutwhat might happen.
And I remember my now wife and Isitting in Salisbury the weekend
that the plane flew over fromChina and landed at Liverpool
and we're watching this on TVthinking that's all, it's all a
bit weird, something's not quiteright.
And I think he stopped at petrolstation on the way home and
(17:10):
bought some masks and some handgel because it seemed that was
what everyone had been doing.
And then of course, the biglockdown.
We moved in together.
We squashed our four childrenand the two of us into a two bed
house, so we could be together.
homeschooling was the biggestchallenge of it all, which just
cemented that I was never, evermeant to be a teacher.
(17:34):
As much as I might want to helppeople, I think I want to help.
Adults, not children.
God bless any teachers and I wasimmediately stopped from
working.
I was very fortunate that I wasemployed the whole way through.
but working for a diagnosticscompany, no one was doing
anything.
So I sat at home, the drinkscame out a bit earlier and
earlier, I actually went on adiet and lost a load of weight
because we realised that thiswould, could be quite serious if
(17:58):
we didn't.
I love spending time with thekids.
I look back at the photos and mychildren now will say, oh God,
we hate COVID.
It was horrible.
It was horrendous.
The reality is, I'm not sure howmuch they actually remember.
And when we look back at thephotos, we had a nice garden.
It was sunny.
We played, I went online andwe'd find activities to do.
(18:19):
There were lots of groups thatcame out, for parents to
entertain their children.
So we did a bit of schoolwork inthe morning.
Sometimes that works, sometimesit didn't.
And then we'd have fun and we'dgo on walks.
We used to walk 2, 3 miles aday, exploring the area.
We'd never been, we'd neverreally seen, because we're too
busy working.
And I, it was just a good time.
(18:40):
Don't get me wrong.
I know it's horrendous for somany people, and it was truly
horrific but for us, in ourlittle bubble, it was a good
time.
What it really made, both mywife and I feel was we didn't
want to go back to the waythings have been beforehand.
Like many people, we are notalone in this.
(19:02):
And I'd already had this thoughtof starting a cleaning company.
so it's funny you should touchon menial jobs, and I'll come
back to that in a minute.
And as COVID kind of ending Andlockdown released.
We said, let's start this.
We created a logo.
(19:22):
I'd done all of this duringlockdown, created a Facebook
page and asked a few friends,and suddenly we had some work.
and then I joined a networkinggroup against my better
judgment.
and suddenly we had offices toclean and we had people looking
for building cleans and, thetendencies and all sorts.
Suddenly this idea had balloonedall the while.
(19:45):
My wife was working nights in acare home.
I was still a rep for thecompany I'd been working for and
we balanced the two.
And I look back and it reallymakes me chuckle'because I'm not
really sure we managed it.
It was crazy time.
But it was the right thing.
And there was just that feelingof joy that we were doing our
own thing.
So actually we could, if webuilt this, we could spend time
(20:09):
with our children and make thatCOVID bubble and the way we'd
lived during COVID may be moreof a reality.
The thought of having to driveto Redding for a 7 o'clock
theatre appointment with mywork, just the fun.
The idea of it all just banishedas, I don't want this anymore.
(20:34):
And then my wife on a walk oneSunday, fell off the sea wall
down the road here and snappedher leg in 2.
I say that's because she wantedto get out.
It was easter Sunday.
So I say it's because she wantsto get out eating lamb, which
she doesn't like.
And I had the, an amazing pieceof lamb.
which went in the bin.
she snapped her leg in two and Iwas suddenly left with four
(20:57):
kids, two jobs and fairly minorin the grand scheme of things.
But that was the turning point,and that was it.
So I once again, quit myself,before we planned.
So we had a plan to moveforward, work the side by side,
see what we could do, raise somemoney, keep some money aside.
(21:17):
But actually space falling offthe wall really just catapulted
that decision, and I do notregret that decision in any way,
shape, or form.
And that was really the start ofliving the lifestyle and that
ambitious lifestyle that wewanted and that we had.
Paul (21:36):
I love that.
I love that turning point, and Ithink that's true of almost
every guest we've had on theshow is that there was, a
crucible that led them wherethey're meant to be.
the final turning point forpeople, and it's quite often
that moment of either clarity orcatastrophe, right?
It is a case of, for many of us,sadly, some people crumble by
the wayside and it's, reallytough for those people.
(21:59):
But for some of us, it is reallythat moment where we finally get
out of our cocoon and spread ourwings and figure out what it is
that, that we're being pushedtowards doing.
And so you set out on buildingyour career consultancy whilst
launching a podcast at
David (22:15):
Thank you.
Paul (22:16):
so congratulations on the podcast as well, because I know
you are.
How many episodes are you innow?
David (22:21):
I've actually just launched 30 today.
Paul (22:24):
30?
Good grief, right?
So yeah, you are flying now.
Well
David (22:28):
done! Thank you
Paul (22:29):
it's so hard to get past episode 10 even for so many
people.
what's been the hardest part?
Since setting out on your own,was there a point where you just
thought, do you know what?
I've made a mistake of here,maybe i shouldn't be doing
David (22:44):
Yeah, monthly, weekly, daily.
Sometimes hourly.
Ah, no.
Look, you know what it's like.
It's, there are hard times and Iwill be the first to admit that
there are tears, there aretantrums, there are days I want
to jack it all in and find a joband then I stop and I think what
(23:07):
I actually have and my childrenwill always come first.
That's why I left full-timeemployment.
So on the days where it's badand it's hard, I then remember,
actually I've got school run.
I can get my kids, my son's gotrugby match, I'll be at the
rugby match.
So that outweighs all thehardships and look, it's not
(23:30):
easy.
Being employed is for the mostpart, a cushy little number.
You have your pay at the end ofthe month.
You're told what to do.
You have a support team aroundyou that when you need
something, when you have an ITproblem, you have someone to go
to.
When you have a finance problem,you have someone to go to, you
(23:52):
submit your receipts, andsuddenly you get paid your
expenses.
Wow.
I do all of that and I love it,but I also surround myself with
the right people who help me onthat route.
And I think that's the key toit, is finding the right people
and meeting amazing people,making connections like you and
I have done, where you can askquestions, you can have that
support to see you through someof those really hard times.
(24:17):
but quite simply, I will nevergo back to full-time employment.
I couldn't.
I was probably unemployable anda pain in the arse from day one.
It's just taken me 20 odd yearsto work that out.
Paul (24:28):
I think that's you and I connect so well, right?
Like we're both very why thatsame boat now and Yeah, there's
been times when, since startingmy own business, I've thought,
you know what I should but thisis really tough.
Cash flow's not where I wantedit to be at times and I'm
looking around the house and I'mthinking, you know what, I could
be getting paid 3 times what I'mcurrently earning at that point
(24:49):
in time.
And then I think, yeah, nobodywould employ you anymore Paul,
because you just, yeah.
You've broken yourself in thatregard because I just, I
couldn't go back to being toldwhat to do anymore.
I, now that I have that freedomand now that I know that I can
be in some modicum of the wordsuccessful, in however we're
(25:12):
gonna view that word.
I enjoy that too much to go backto being
David (25:16):
told what to do Yeah.
Yeah.
and critisied
Paul (25:18):
in the way that I
David (25:19):
Yeah.
do
Paul (25:19):
it, and that, for me as a neurodiverse person, as an ADHD
dad, I, that's the bit, Istruggle with the heaviest
because when I look back on mycareer now, knowing now what I
know about my myself and the waymy neurodiversity is, I just
think everything I've ever beencriticised for was outta my
control.
(25:39):
Because, and, it's the same fora lot of people, right?
We go to work to do a good job.
Nobody goes to work to do a badjob, but I've never once in that
15 year career had anyconversation with anyone in any
serious capacity aboutneurodiversity.
And had I realised my traits andI struggle to call them.
Anything negative because I lovebeing ADHD and I don't get me
(26:02):
wrong, I know there are plentyof people out there who
absolutely hate being ADHDbecause they are far worsely
afflicted than I am.
And what is a superpower for meisn't as super powerful for
other people.
So I don't get me wrong, Isympathise with that, and
empathise with it.
But for me it was a superpower.
but for everything that Istruggled with, I now know that
(26:22):
actually I did give it my best.
It wasn't that I wasn't tryinghard enough, it was that I'm
incapable of those thingsbecause that's just not the way
my brain works.
And so if for no other reasonthan the fact that it's given me
the space to understand myselfbetter,
David (26:38):
Yeah, am so
Paul (26:39):
happy that I did set out on my own journey
David (26:41):
and that's so important.
I think you.
You are not alone in thinkingand feeling that and people are
so compressed by thattraditional 9 to 5 that we talk
about.
And employees, employers, sorry,are obsessed with people working
to rule and there's a place forthat.
And again, great that somepeople do.
(27:03):
It doesn't give that flexibilityfor people that think or work
differently.
And I think that's why so manypeople feel so unhappy and
restless and just don't quitefit in'because you're trying to
be molded to a system thatdoesn't really work for
everybody.
And the sooner we realise that,the better.
(27:25):
And of course the irony of itall is probably for you and I,
is that if we were to go for ajob.
The chances are might be whereyou're a bit overqualified or
under or overqualified, and youmight get bored instead of
seeing it as a real positive andsaying, look at all this
experience you've got.
Come on board, hang on.
(27:46):
You've applied for a job whereyou want to take a lower grade.
Come work for us.
we'll use you and build you upagain.
But people don't see that.
They just see, oh, hang on,you've been a company director,
you've done your own thing orno, why would you want to come
and do this again?
Just
Paul (28:01):
Why would you want
David (28:01):
so shortsighted, and that for me sums up that whole kind
of 9 to 5 corporate culture.
Paul (28:07):
And I, I think everybody, like in 2025, I think a lot of
people are stuck in that way ofthinking, I introduced, I was
talking with a guy the otherday, so a good friend of mine is
looking for consultancy work forstartups and small businesses.
I put
David (28:21):
a post Yeah,
Paul (28:22):
out on LinkedIn.
He's a very good friend of mine.
He doesn't want to be namedpublicly, he just wants to find
a bit of quiet, private workthat he can help people with or
for a couple of months to helpyou know him in his situation as
he is at the moment.
And I was talking with a guy whowas interested in his help and
he could not get his head aroundthe idea that I was not
benefiting commercially fromhelping my friend.
(28:42):
He's like, I don't understandwhy you're helping him.
If you are not working for himor you are not getting paid by
him is, and, he actually gottathe point where he asked me,
have you built an AI that'sreally clever?
And fair play to you if youhave, that you are pretending is
your friend, and you're justgonna pass me information from
this ai.
And I was like, ha.
We're going to take your tinfoil hat off.
(29:04):
I'm not that clever.
and actually no, I'm nottransactionally driven.
I just want to help my friend.
But that attitude is notuncommon.
That is not unusual.
And we laugh about it, but howsad is it that's the world that
we live in now?
That people assume that's the,my motivation, That aside, I
want to bring us back a littlebit on track.
So you've got a podcast 30episodes in called,
David (29:26):
yeah, get a shift
Paul (29:27):
Why Start That?
What was your purpose behindthat, David?
David (29:30):
It was actually never in the initial plan with my
business.
I think I fell into it.
What I realised fairly early onis, that sharing people's
stories is exceptionallypowerful.
Making real human connection issuper powerful and as you,
you've just alluded to gettingaway from that transactional
(29:54):
feeling that so many people seemto have.
So I started it.
I, in True Me style, just wentheadlong into it, created some
imagery, read up how to do it,found a platform and it said
create 3 episodes before you gettoo far.
So I did exactly that and Ilinked with someone on LinkedIn,
(30:17):
a GP who's doing some amazingresearch around watercress and
he was my first guest.
And I guess it has justsnowballed from there.
And it has been so fascinatingto meet so many different people
from all walks of life.
And the whole premise of thepodcast is to showcase that
career change is absolutelypossible.
(30:39):
And as I'm sure you are wellaware, when you see a real life
story, it's much moreinteresting than me sitting
there saying, oh yes, you can dothis, and this.
And that really helps you getout of the job that you are
stuck in.
But when you see that peoplehave done it from all walks of
life, I've had.
that gp, I've had other gpswho've gone on to do other
(31:02):
things'because they don't feelthey can work any longer in the
NHS and the way it'sfunctioning.
I've had teachers, I've hadcivil servants, I've had ex
rugby players from both thelocal and English team.
its just been a reallyfascinating journey and it's
been nice as well because Imanaged to speak to some of my
friends.
(31:22):
One of which a guy called Ollie,we went boarding school
together.
I've known him probably longerthan I've known most people and
we shared a room for a very longtime as well.
And we've had very differentcareers and he's done amazing
things.
He runs a marketing company andhe is worked with Liquid Death,
and he's just like his owncompany.
But it's really fascinating tohear his story, having known him
(31:46):
all those years.
To understand how people developand change.
And I hope that people watchingit and, my subscribers are few
and far between.
I can't even claim my mam's oneof them'because I don't think
she really understands what apodcast is.
but if she could, she would.
but those figures are growing,but actually it's, for me, it's
(32:07):
not about that.
It's about helping as manypeople as I can.
On my mission to help a thousandpeople leave the jobs they hate.
And if I can just help oneperson by sharing someone else's
story, then that makes me happy.
So episode 30 out today, whoknows?
Will it grow?
(32:27):
Will I get some money for it atsome point?
I don't know.
And that's, it was never in theplan, so it's never been my
driving force, but I am lovingmeeting people and getting the
opportunity to speak to justdifferent people.
Paul (32:38):
And nor should it be part of your plan, David, I and I
applaud that if
David (32:41):
Yeah.
Paul (32:41):
it happens, it happens..
But money, shouldn't be amotivator for most podcasts,
unless you are, you've got the,connections and the money
upfront to be able to turn itinto
David (32:52):
Yeah.
something super
Paul (32:52):
premium.
then for most of us, you'veabsolutely nailed it.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna admitsomething here live or not live
because for a couple of monthsahead, but my mum is a follower
my podcast, so mam hiya, gladyou're watching.
i'm not going to lie, i forciblysigned her up in the beginning
because I wanted some extrasubscribers.
(33:14):
but my mam does watch everyweek.
she watches it after, she's hadher dinner on an evening.
she's, Very lost sometimes bysome of the conversations that
we have, but she loves watching.
ano, it's nice, my mum
David (33:28):
I love that.
Paul (33:29):
watches my show David forcibly sign your mum up.
You'll be very surprised howeducated she gets about podcast
once she starts watching.
but yeah, I, guess thinkingabout everything that you've
learned since.
Moving into your own businessand all the advice that you give
to people, the work that you nowdo with, individuals stuck in
(33:50):
their rules.
And as somebody who worked indiscount retail, right?
Like I know there are a lot ofpeople who are, in the wrong job
for them and they're desperateto get out.
I was one of those people onceall I could ever see myself
doing was more of the same for adifferent company for a
different brand.
And I honestly thought thateverybody on LinkedIn was, I'm
gonna say it out loud, sorry,mam.
(34:12):
Was full of shit.
I genuinely thought it was allsmoke and mirrors and it was,
the only people that weresuccessful are the ones that
already had money to start withwho were trying to ram their
market and methods down ourthought.
I'm living proof that's nottrue.
However, I'm conscious that I'veprobably joined that band of
people that I wouldn't havebelieved if I was in that role
(34:32):
Still.
if someone's listening alongtoday and they suspect I'm full
of crap and maybe think that youare a little bit full of crap, I
hope not, but maybe they do.
What could they do today toprove to themselves that there
is something else out there thatthey could be doing that would
make them far happier?
That isn't the role that they'redoing now in a different
David (34:52):
That's a great question and yeah, i think you're right.
We are probablallle full of shitin our own way but you have to
get through that.
And genuine communication,genuine connections, like The
type that we have, I think isvery important to see through
some of that.
think if you are really stuck ina role in a job and you know
(35:16):
there's something else, I thinkthe first thing to do is truly
identify what makes you happyand what skills you have that
could see you out of it.
And I'll give you an example.
I was speaking to a chap theother day, works in healthcare,
not sure what to do.
Has a well-paid job, fairly highup, has done a master's, so he
(35:39):
is got all the right thingsshould we say, that one would
expect to have, but actually isreally not very happy.
So we had a conversation and Isaid to him, okay, so what is it
that you'd like to do?
Really, if you took away all thebarriers?
Take away the money, take awaywhat people might say, take away
the fear of that change.
(36:00):
And his eyes lit up and he said,I think I've always wanted to
have a pizza cafe that servesgreat coffee.
But his eyes shone at thatthought.
I was like, and that's the key.
That's what you need to do.
Paul (36:14):
Yep.
David (36:14):
I think so many people that I speak to have somewhere
deep down, that burning desire,that burning wish to do
something but have stopped forwhatever reason.
And it's about finding what thatis again and you might stumble
across it.
It might be something thatyou've always wanted to do but
never had the real, thepossibility.
(36:38):
But when you get to a pointwhere you are so stuck, I think
you're willing to try anythingto get out.
And if you've got that inkling,then do something.
And whenever I have a call withsomeone, I always offer three
calls for people to start with.
I will give them three actionsto do because it's about moving
forward.
And if you are that stuck, ifthat rusty nail is that rusty,
(37:01):
then you have to do something.
So tho3ree actions, it could beanything.
Think, just imagine what youwant to do.
What skills do you really enjoyusing, ask a friend.
So I think it's really pinningdown what lights you up, what
gives you that joy, and thenfinding a way to manage it and
taking even just small steps.
And it's very cliche, it's very,it is what it is, some of that
(37:26):
fluff.
But actually it's true.
If you don't take that step, younever move anywhere and you get
stuck in yourself.
And then that's just that, cycleof misery and then you make
everyone else miserable.
So it's about doing it for youand everyone else around you.
i
Paul (37:43):
think there's a, couple of things that I would add to that
in that, first of all have anidea of what you want to do, but
be prepared for that to changeas you get closer to whatever
you're heading towards.
Because quite honestly, I neverintended to set up a marketing
company of any sort.
I never intended to end up, ifyou told me 10 years ago, I'd be
working around video editing andrepurposing and working with
(38:04):
podcasts, I would've laughed sohard in your face.
And, I would've definitelyraised my eyebrows at who I am
today.
But here I am thoroughlyenjoying myself, My goal was to
get out.
I found a role using technology,which I love working with
technology, and that was astepping stone to where I am
now.
But always be listening to whatmakes you happy in the moment,
(38:26):
and be looking for a, way tofind more of those little things
that you do every day that makeyou much happier.
My second thing would be ifperhaps you are not ready to
talk to somebody like David yet,and you like, like I say, I
still suspect that I'm full ofcrap.
Then there is a tool out therecalled chat GPT.
You may have heard of it, youmay not.
(38:47):
A lot of people, it's surprisinghow many people in corporate
roles in retail, have never evenconsidered chat gPT or Claude or
Gemini or whatever versions onyour phone have a conversation
with it.
You would be surprised howinsightful it is at identifying
what makes you happy and whatskill sets you have.
It is there, it's a, it can bevery constructive.
(39:10):
and critical thinking for you ina way that gives you that
confidence to have aconversation with a real person.
Next and that's where I'd gowith it is try a prompt along
the lines.
You don't need to be an expertto write prompts in, in AI these
days.
Just try something along thelines of, I want you to act as a
career change consultant.
I'm gonna tell you what job Ido, I'm gonna describe it to the
(39:33):
best of my ability, and I'llmaybe even upload your CV into
it and it'll ingest that.
Conscious of data every once orI'll give you that warning as
well.
you load something, it's theirs.
but feed that information in andsee what it comes back with and
ask it some questions and ask itto ask you questions.
And maybe that's a good startingpoint for a lot of people who
are thinking about it, butaren't quite brave enough yet or
(39:56):
haven't committed.
Because the other thing that Iwould say to people is you need
to be in the right point in
David (40:02):
time Yeah.
Paul (40:02):
to make that pivot.
If you are still dithering aboutdoing it and you thinking about
it, but then you never go and doit, when is the right time?
When are you ever gonna do it?
You've gotta find a point intime and there will never be a
perfect moment.
You'll never be able to affordit.
You'll never have loads of moneyin the bank.
There's a comfort buffer, so youcan go and do it, and quite
honestly, if you did, youwouldn't make a success of it.
(40:24):
Sometimes just doing it by theseat of your goddamn pants.
Getting out there and beingterrified is what makes u
successful
David (40:30):
Hundred percent.
Yeah.
i'm
Paul (40:32):
not gonna lie.
David (40:33):
Yeah.
Paul (40:33):
I love it.
David, thank you so much forwhat has been a wonderful, I
genuinely love helping peoplewith careers and things like
that as well.
I don't want to be, I don't wantto make it my job, but I love
hearing the passion that youhave for helping people, and I'd
always encourage anybody ifthey're interested to go and
talk
David (40:49):
with you Thank you.
Paul (40:50):
I will make sure your contact details and everything
from Via Nova are included inthe
David (40:53):
Amazing.
Paul (40:54):
show notes
David (40:55):
you.
Paul (40:55):
Is there anything that you'd leave the audience with
before we, end the episode?
David (40:59):
First of all, thank you.
Thank you for the connectionthat we've made and the
friendship that we've made aswell.
I think what I would leavepeople with and touch on your
point is allow there to be thathuman connection.
Look through the fluff onLinkedIn or any other platform.
(41:20):
And you said then that allowthings to change and be prepared
that things might change.
It's amazing when you giveyourself the opportunity to be
open and free of constrainedthought, the opportunities that
present themself to you.
I never thought I'd be doingwhat I'm doing much like
(41:42):
yourself, but I let myself.
Go.
I just give myself permission tobe free, as it were.
And it's amazing what you findworks.
Podcasting is just anotherexample.
Never thought I'd do it, and yethere I am.
So give yourself the opportunityto enjoy something and see where
(42:05):
it takes you.
Paul (42:06):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much for your wisewords today, David.
David (42:09):
Thanks, Paul, for the opportunity.
Paul (42:10):
And I will see all of you.
Make sure you subscribe, makesure you give us a follow up.
We'll see you next week calledMarketPulse Pros and Pioneers.
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