June 25, 2025 • 32 mins
Enjoying the Show? Share Your Experience!
Storytelling isn’t just a marketing trend—it’s the foundation of brand success. This week, we welcome Dorien Morin-van Dam, a social media strategist, content creator, and international keynote speaker with over 14 years of experience. As a Certified Agile Marketer, Dorien helps businesses craft powerful organic strategies that convert.
In this episode, Dorien reveals why storytelling is the most effective way to build trust and engage audiences in 2025. She shares how video is revolutionising business leadership, the secrets behind agile marketing, and why documenting your journey can fuel your brand’s growth.
We also discuss her unexpected path to social media success, the game-changing impact of networking and conferences, and the practical strategies that any business owner can apply today to stand out in a crowded space.
If you’re looking to transform your content, amplify your brand, and leverage the power of video and storytelling, you don’t want to miss this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
Good afternoon and welcome back to MarketPulse Pros and
(00:02):
Pioneers.
Season two has kicked off withan absolute blast.
We've had some fantastic peopleon the show and this week is no
exception ladies and gentlemenwho are watching along, you
watching the show for a longtime.
I've, I've already been on thislady's podcast and I thoroughly
enjoyed the experience so muchso that I had to bring her back
and invite her on to oursplease, if you haven't met her
(00:25):
before, welcome Dorien Morin VanDam onto our show I've been,
I've been practicing out to seeand name, I'm sorry.
Like I need to get that right.
It makes me so anxious when Iget people with a name that
doesn't, it, it sounds verydifferent to how it's spelt.
Well, lovely to have you on theshow, Dorien,
Dorien (00:42):
Thanks for having
Paul (00:43):
how are you?
Dorien (00:44):
love talking, so this is gonna be great.
Paul (00:47):
And that's a Dutch name, right?
Dorien (00:48):
Yes it is.
I was born and raised in theNetherlands, and then I
immigrated to the US when I was18.
Paul (00:54):
Wow, that must have been some upheaval, some'cause I
would imagine an 18-year-oldyou've, you've got all your
friends there and you are kindof settled in place.
Dorien (01:03):
I, I, it was an adventure.
I was supposed to go for a yearand, you know, the age old
story, meeting somebody fallingin love and staying,
Paul (01:09):
Oh,
Dorien (01:10):
I've been
Paul (01:10):
yep.
Dorien (01:11):
country for years, so yeah, it's been a, it's been a
long time.
So I've spent more time in theUS than I.
Grew up in the Netherlands andspent time there, but I am 100%
Dutch, so that always will stickwith will that, you know, that
sticks with you no matter what.
Paul (01:27):
Fascinating.
And so.
Season two for this show hasfocused much more around
people's stories and how theygot where they are.
Because the more I've recordedthis podcast, the more I've
realized that nobody got here onpurpose.
Very, very few people I spoke tosaw in advance any of their
journey that they've been on,and I love that almost
(01:49):
serendipity and faith ledjourney that people have been on
because that's what makes usunique and that's what gives us
our, our unique selling points.
So walk me through where that,where that journey to America
went then Dorien because that'san opportunity to reinvent
yourself right At, at18-year-old, you could be
whatever you want.
Dorien (02:08):
Yeah, except I didn't really, I, I only had one goal
is to just be happy, which is asilly goal, but growing up in a
very strict Dutch reformedhousehold with the role model of
becoming a mom.
And so when I met somebody andfell in love.
That really was what I was gonnado.
But because we were so young andso poor, waited to have
(02:31):
children, we had that luxury.
And so I worked for seven yearsas a nanny before we even had
our first child ended up.
have four children.
They're all young adults now.
Youngest of 20, oldest is 28.
Lovely family, but.
At age 40, I walked my youngestinto kindergarten, and it was
one of those days thateverybody, you know, the moms
(02:54):
are crying.
They're standing there.
And I literally walked out ofthere with the biggest smile on
my face because I, that was myfourth one going to school.
I had been nannying for 20something years, nannying and,
and parenting, and this was thefirst time in, I think 22 years
that I had a day without achild.
Like a weekday.
(03:15):
And I had from seven 30 to two30 and I was like, what am I
gonna do
Paul (03:19):
Yeah.
Dorien (03:19):
time?
And this was 2010.
So think about what washappening.
Facebook was up and coming.
Twitter was up and coming.
Nobody locally where I lived wasdoing social media.
They were talking about it.
Businesses weren't doing it.
Nobody had time for it.
Nobody knew what it was.
And so I was contemplating goingto school.
Here I am at 40, you know, goingto get an education that I never
(03:42):
had.
And then we started, kind of didthe math.
My husband and I like, if I goto school for four years, by the
time I'm done, our first childis almost ready to go to college
himself.
How much earning power do Ihave?
We kind of did some of that mathand then I was like, well, what
can I do?
And I didn't, couldn't anddidn't want to go work for
somebody and have to go into anoffice.
So my husband had been.
(04:04):
has his own business, beenworking for himself remotely for
at least 10 years at that point,remote already.
This was 2010.
So he is like, well, what if youdo social media and, you know,
start working locally, but maybeyou can do some re remote work
like me?
So it took an online course andI am a very different learner
than he is.
(04:24):
So within three weeks of takingthe course, I literally.
Got a room at a localuniversity, put up a sign and
said, I'm teaching social mediato people.
I got a bunch of business ownersto come.
I'm teaching what I'm learningthree weeks before I'm teaching
that to them.
And my husband's looking at megoing, what are you doing?
(04:44):
I'm like, well, I'm learningnow.
I'm implementing.
This is how I learn.
By doing so I'm gonna geteverybody together.
I had to be at the university.
So we had good wifi and Istarted teaching.
I created a network calledHands-on Networking in the area.
What I was in.
Connecting business owners andsaying, when we meet in person,
now we can connect online, wecan boost each other's online
(05:05):
presence.
This was 2010 started workingwith local businesses, and
that's really how I got started.
I think.
I didn't know what I didn'tknow, so that's the biggest
thing that I had an advantagefor.
I didn't know how to behave inbusiness.
I've never been in business,never
Paul (05:20):
Yep.
Dorien (05:20):
business.
I've been, remember a nanny stayat home mom and I didn't know.
That you know how to dress orhow to act.
I just.
Was me.
And I think that worked to myadvantage for sure.
There were no expectations thatI had to live up to.
Paul (05:35):
Yep.
Dorien (05:36):
so I kind of carved my own way.
And especially since socialmedia was new, I was the first
social media manager in thelocal area.
So
Paul (05:43):
Yep.
Dorien (05:43):
a lot of referrals.
And one of the ways I gotstarted is that I kind of raised
my hand on LinkedIn and said,Hey, anybody need any help?
And there was a local charitythat was doing a golf.
A golf tournament and they weremaking
Paul (05:55):
Yeah.
Dorien (05:56):
a year in fundraising.
And I said, well, I can help.
And they go, well, we can't payyou.
And I said, well, if you give mea title, I will do it for free.
So they made me
Paul (06:05):
Yep.
Dorien (06:05):
director for three years for their tournament and we, the
third year raised$75,000 and we.
Can attribute that to socialmedia and the spread of social
media and sponsorship and beingable to tag people and be able
to get the word out.
So that was really my start by,you know, working with that
charity and then getting knownlocally.
(06:27):
So that was, that was really thegolden age of social media.
The, the really, the start that,
Paul (06:33):
From the outset.
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (06:35):
you call it.
Paul (06:36):
Yep.
Yep.
I, I, my, my son struggles tobelieve that I, I predate the
internet.
I, I must seem incredibly old tohim.
But I remember, I remember goinginto college and things just to
download things to bring home onfloppy disks because I didn't
have internet at home is, it's,it's unbelievable the
differences that we've seen andsuch a relatively short period
of time.
(06:56):
But why, why social media?
Then, I guess what, whatattracted you to social media?
Dorien (07:02):
Well, the funniest part was I wasn't attracted to social
media.
I actually didn't have aFacebook presence until my
husband said, check out socialmedia.
So
Paul (07:11):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (07:11):
went on Twitter, I went on Facebook and I started
checking it out.
I am, I like in-person meetings,so it
Paul (07:18):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (07:19):
to be the thing that I could go into without a lot of
training.
Paul (07:25):
Yep.
Dorien (07:26):
I do like communicating know, raising kids and raising
teenagers.
You have to be overcommunicative to make sure you
get the point across.
And so I'd also, in all thoseyears a stay-at-home mom, I have
been on all kinds of committees.
I had learned to navigate adifficult situations empathy.
I was on the P-T-O-P-T-A, I wason I was an elder at my church.
(07:50):
There were a lot of.
Decisions that were made.
A lot of I was on, a lot ofprojects I was involved with.
That helped set me up for whatsocial media ended up doing.
You know, first it's onlinenetworking.
It's building community, which Ihad done immediately.
I, I moved to an area in 2000.
(08:12):
We lived in Myrtle Beach, SouthCarolina.
That's where we moved to when wehad two young children.
I was pregnant with my thirdnow.
My husband's not from SouthCarolina.
My family's in Europe.
I moved there five monthspregnant, and my biggest goal
was in the next four months toget to know somebody well enough
that I could stash my two kidswith them while I went into
labor so my husband could bewith me.
(08:33):
That literally was my goal, so Inetworked.
The heck outta myself to meetother moms.
I was part of the moms club.
I ended up being the presidentof the
Paul (08:43):
Yeah.
Dorien (08:43):
club, but I made real connections everywhere and that
understanding of how people workand that people needed to be
part of community has reallyhelped me in social media.
You know, I think.
we now are in 2025, there isthat debate that comes back, you
know, every year about do weneed skills or do we, do you
(09:05):
need hard skills or soft skills?
Do we need to have somebody whounderstands the algorithm of
TikTok or do we need somebodywho understands?
The algorithm of people, right?
Do we
Paul (09:14):
Yep.
Dorien (09:14):
somebody that has empathy or do we want to, to
know the data behind everything?
And, and the truth is we needboth and we need'em to work
Paul (09:22):
Yep.
Dorien (09:23):
But starting out, you know, 15 years ago, it really
was about understandingpsychology and people and
communication.
And, you know, data came a lotlater to, you know, be
successful.
So a lot of younger people whocan probably do great growing a
TikTok account or you know, anykind of social media account,
(09:44):
they might not understandcustomer service piece of social
media.
Paul (09:48):
Yep.
Dorien (09:49):
that's where, that's where I've really found, that's
why I went into organic socialinstead of ads.
Paul (09:54):
Yep.
Dorien (09:55):
love that part.
The customer service,
Paul (09:56):
Yeah.
Dorien (09:57):
Retention piece.
Paul (09:58):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And I, it's something that,that's always been core to my
principles as well is that kindof, I always said to my wife
many years ago, before I evenleft retail we know, we, we,
we'd get handymen out to do jobsaround the house or we'd, we'd
phone them up and we'd ask themto do something, even just come
out and do a court, and probablyfour out of five just wouldn't
(10:19):
even bother to turn up for thecourt.
And I always said.
Making money out of people isreally, really easy.
And she said, well, what?
What do you mean Paul?
How can that, how can that be?
I said, well, it's very simple,right?
All you've gotta do is tellsomeone what you're gonna do.
Tell someone how much it'll be.
Tell'em when you'll be there andtell them how you'll do it.
(10:41):
And then do those four things.
That's it.
And if you can do those fourthings, you will win hearts and
minds, because the vast majorityof people can't.
Dorien (10:50):
So, yeah.
Paul (10:51):
it's, it's just be reliable and consistent.
I think that's, but yes, thatcustomer service piece is, is
huge and I think a lot of peoplemiss that ability to engage in
conversa in genuineconversations, not, not money
led conversations and just seewhere the relationship builds
to.
Um, which brings me on to kindof storytelling, which I know is
a huge part of the way you workwith your clients and what you
(11:15):
are all about on social media.
So.
Where did you start to see theimportance of storytelling in
your own business, in your ownlife?
Is, is that how you managed tobecome successful?
Dorien (11:26):
Yeah.
So, you know, if you read mybio, you see I wear my orange
glasses as a nod to my Dutchheritance.
That actually kind of happenedby accident.
The first year I was inbusiness.
Somebody sent me a cardboardpair of orange glasses with a
little crown on it.
The, the Netherlands had at thattime, a, a queen
Paul (11:46):
Yeah.
Dorien (11:46):
Queen day is in April, and so it was Queen Day I was
missing the Netherlands.
She sent me those glasses and Iput'em on, and when I, and I,
and I put that picture as myprofile picture, this was the
start of my business.
And I would go into town and goto my hands-on networking
meetings and my.
Other networking meetings andpeople would go, oh, you are the
girl of the orange glasses.
(12:08):
And so that piece ofrecognition, that's what I was
known for initially, not what Idid, but by my look.
So I very quickly realized thatand I started buying orange
glasses just.
Over the counter, noprescription.
And I wore orange glasses for 10years without a prescription
because it helped me
Paul (12:28):
Uhhuh.
Dorien (12:29):
recognized sort of as a logo then in
Paul (12:31):
Yeah.
Dorien (12:32):
orange in my logo and, and all of that stuff.
But that's kind of where thatstarts.
But.
People like that's when Irealized people like a story.
People like to something aboutyou so they can remember you.
The other story I often tellthese are people that I network
with, and now that you're partof my network, you'll hear the
story too.
But I shared every year on May5th is that my husband and I met
(12:55):
at a bus stop and then gotmarried at the bus stop only
seven months later.
And so it's
Paul (13:00):
It.
Dorien (13:00):
my story, but it's also part of.
How I am as a person, thisdefines
Paul (13:06):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (13:07):
good, it is good.
I
Paul (13:08):
Yep.
Dorien (13:09):
need, we don't need the big budget or the big bells and
whistles.
Right?
And this
Paul (13:15):
Yep,
Dorien (13:15):
a metaphor for, for marketing.
What you need is.
What comes after, right?
I wasn't worried about the bigwedding.
We had a very small wedding atthe bus stop with 40 of our
friends and a bunch of peoplewho got off the bus.
But it's not about the wedding,it's about the marriage.
What do you do afterwards?
Right?
So
Paul (13:31):
Yeah.
Dorien (13:31):
about getting this flashy ad up or this.
This, this one campaign.
It's about how you conductyourself online at all times and
how you, how you tell that storyof your, of your, your mission,
your vision if you're, you know,a sustainable company what you
stand for things that you'rewilling to do and not do as a
business owner, right?
Your morals,
Paul (13:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dorien (13:52):
that's all part of your story and telling that is
really, really powerful becausenot everybody.
Is your audience.
You know, I love,
Paul (14:01):
Mm.
Dorien (14:01):
beginning of when I started doing social media, you
Paul (14:03):
Yeah.
Dorien (14:04):
didn't know what questions to ask.
So I would say, you know, who'syour audience?
And people say, oh, everybody.
And I'm like, oh, we, we canwork with that.
No, you can't work with that.
Who is your audience?
Who is your ideal
Paul (14:13):
Yeah.
Dorien (14:13):
Who do you wanna target?
Who pays you the most or whopays you the most often?
Or who comes back every year?
Like those are your mostprofitable ones who has
Paul (14:21):
Yeah.
Dorien (14:21):
you the longest.
So those are the people we needto target.
And.
That storytelling to them to, toget them in.
But you, you have to show alittle bit of yourself.
You have to human, be humanright, and have those human
feelings.
And, and that's kind of wherethat storytelling started when I
realized that people recognizedme.
(14:42):
In person from something theyhad seen online.
The same thing happened thefirst time I went to a big
conference.
I didn't know anybody flew fromSouth Carolina to San Diego.
I'm in this huge place with like3000 people and this girl comes
running to me and goes, oh mygosh, Dorien I did not know who
she was, but she knew me fromTwitter'cause I was wearing my
orange glasses.
(15:03):
So that connection, connection
Paul (15:05):
Yeah.
Dorien (15:06):
world and the.
The in-person world is reallyimportant, and I think that if
you and I were to meet Paul inreal life, we'd feel the same
way because this
Paul (15:15):
Yep.
Dorien (15:15):
connection that we're making.
And I think that is somethingthat storytelling, that piece is
missing from a lot of people'smarketing, and that's what I
want to give to
Paul (15:25):
Yep.
Dorien (15:25):
right?
Grab their story and, and shareit with the world.
Paul (15:30):
and a lot of people are kind of.
A little bit afraid of tellingtheir story.
'cause they, they wanna remain,they wanna be humble and they
don't feel as though their storyis what's gonna make the sale.
And they really struggle.
I, I think, you know, most, mostbusiness owners probably have to
tell their story 500 timesbefore they're anywhere near
like a, a starting point fortheir story.
It evolves over time.
Right.
Like what, what advice would yougive to a business that's out
(15:52):
there that maybe they'rerelatively new and trying to
find their story, whatever thatlooks like for them.
Dorien (15:58):
So one of the things that I recently kind of started
adapting and, and help tellingpeople about, it's not about
creating content, it's aboutdocumenting this, the, the, the.
Documenting the journey.
So when you're a founder, I'mworking with a brand new startup
right now, and they're going totheir first conference this
(16:18):
week, right?
So we're in a all team meetingand they're like, yeah, we, we
don't necessarily, you know,wanna be in the picture because,
you know, we're, we're, we'restartup.
And I'm like, well, can you.
Do pictures of the people whohave the, you know, booth next
to you.
You know, can you tell the storyabout your travel?
You don't necessarily have toshow your face, but we're on a
plane, or your product is on theplane.
(16:39):
Or you know, you can have
Paul (16:41):
Yep.
Dorien (16:42):
angles, but sharing the journey.
Document what you're doing.
Document your meeting.
This meeting, let's take apicture.
Even if we don't post it now,maybe we post it in a year.
Right?
Paul (16:53):
Yeah.
Dorien (16:53):
the, then we have the way back machine, but document
everything because that makesyou realize all the stuff that
you are doing.
So instead of thinking, oh, Igotta create content, no, you're
documenting your day, your week,your meetings, your successes,
your failures.
And I think
Paul (17:10):
Yep.
Dorien (17:11):
you start thinking about it like that, that it's a.
Piece of history for yourcompany.
Then it starts making sense, andthen you don't have to think
about how to post it on social.
Then you put give it to yoursocial person.
If you document everything as abusiness owner, as this, the as
a C-Suite team, your socialmedia team can do all kinds of
magic with that, but you startdocumenting that.
Paul (17:33):
It is funny, I I was literally having this
conversation about an hour and ahalf ago with, with with
someone.
And the question to me, and I'm,I'm, I'm gonna get your answer
first on this, and I, and I knowwhat it is already.
I I already have it figured.
But what he said to me was Idon't wanna be famous, Paul.
So I, I really wanna get onvideo and I, or like I'm happy
to do it for the business.
(17:54):
But, but do you think I haveanything to add?
And, and is it gonna addanything to the business if I
get on video?
And I know you are a bigbeliever in video as well, so,
I, I, I really, I'm lookingforward to seeing what you see
on this, but I.
Dorien (18:06):
shows your passion.
If you are on video, if, I meanyou are getting me to talk about
everything that I love.
If
Paul (18:14):
Yeah.
Dorien (18:15):
this, you can see that I'm excited about social media.
You can see that I'm excitedabout my business and I'm
excited about video.
I'm excited about helping small
Paul (18:23):
Yeah.
Dorien (18:24):
That's why I am on video because I can't convey that.
In a written story on LinkedIn,it's my facial expressions is my
Paul (18:32):
Yeah.
Dorien (18:32):
It's the tone of my voice.
It's my rattling off all thegreat stuff that's happening in
my business.
When you are a founder, whenyou're a C-Suite, there's a
reason you either got hired oryou started the company or you
Paul (18:45):
Yep.
Dorien (18:45):
decisions.
Share those reasons.
Share what's happening.
what people wanna know.
People, businesses are gonna dobusiness with.
if they know the people behind abusiness, right?
Paul (18:58):
Yep.
Dorien (18:58):
B, B2B, it's business to business, but it's really still,
as we always say, H to H.
It's human to human.
There's two people signing onthe dotted line
Paul (19:06):
Yeah.
Dorien (19:06):
a contract, don't forget, and that's, they people
have a lot of choices.
Right.
If I
Paul (19:11):
Yep.
Dorien (19:12):
to go find a new tool to livestream, there's probably 10
choices out there.
Who am I going to sign with?
It's, first of all, I'm gonna goto all my friends and ask them,
what are you using?
Then I'm gonna go online andlook at reviews.
Next, I'm gonna go to forums andsee what people say, and maybe
fourth, I'm gonna try to do ademo and see what the people
(19:32):
that work there, how theyrespond to me, and then I'll
make a decision.
But ultimately, I do wanna knowwho's behind.
That tool because if somethinggoes wrong, I wanna know who's
there.
So
Paul (19:45):
Yep.
Dorien (19:46):
B2B, you still want to be shown.
And then founders haveincredible insight.
There's always a passion whythey started a business.
Very rarely do they start, abusiness goes.
They go, oh, I can make tellmillion.
Tell tell$10 million.
That's why I'm starting abusiness.
No, they're solving a problem.
Most businesses are created'cause they're solving a
problem.
What problem are you solving andhow are you making people's
(20:07):
lives better?
Talk about that and when you dothat
Paul (20:10):
Yep.
Dorien (20:10):
That sells it for you.
You don't need to do anythingelse.
And if you're listening to thisand you're founder, your C-suite
and you haven't done video,think about this.
Your videos, especially onLinkedIn, are gonna amplify what
your team is doing on LinkedInpages.
They're, it's gonna amplify alltheir hard work on TikTok, on
Instagram, everywhere elsebecause now they see you and
(20:33):
they can
Paul (20:34):
Yeah,
Dorien (20:34):
your content to amplify.
Business voice and so yeah, Idon't see any reason not to do
it.
It's not gonna make you famous.
It's gonna make you humanrecognizable.
That's it.
Paul (20:47):
almost word for word.
I love it.
Almost exact same conversation Ihad with him.
The, the thing I'd caveat allthat with as well is, you know,
especially for businesses thatare in a crowded space, you
know, when your, your idealtarget audience gets to a point
where they're about to make adecision and they've got you
versus somebody who offerspretty much what you offer
rather than getting to a race tothe bottom on services and, and
(21:09):
price and, and all those sortsof things.
If the person on the other endknows a little bit about you and
they believe in you and.
What you stand for as a personand as a business, then they'll
actually be willing to pay morefor that than even just pay the
same or less.
So instead of then diving intothat race to the bottom, stop
putting yourself in that, thatrace to the top and put your
(21:30):
hand up.
So I, I, yeah, I, I can'trecommend that enough.
I love that.
Thank you very much for sharingthat, Dorien Um, coming back to
your journey then, like, I lovethe fact that you bring Agile
marketing.
Into, into the fold.
And that's, that's something I,I don't hear anybody else
talking about agile marketing,like it's marketing or it's not
marketing.
(21:50):
So do you wanna, do you wannawalk us through where that came
from and how you, how you workwith that?
Dorien (21:55):
Sure.
In 2018, I signed a
Paul (21:58):
I.
Dorien (21:58):
contract with a team that was an Agile team, and they
are business coaches and they gointo businesses, large
corporations, and they dofacilitation.
They teach communication, and Ireally enjoyed working for them
and.
About a year and a half in, Igot this email from the founder
(22:21):
of that company and she kind oflike, just kind of like slid it
in in an email and she goes, youknow, you can use Agile for
marketing, right?
And my was like, what?
so she sends me a link to anagile marketing workshop, and
it's the first time in nineyears I've been in business
since 2000.
(22:41):
20, early 2020, so 10 years inbusiness.
First time I was like, sign meup.
I don't care how much it costs.
It was a two day conference in aworkshop in New York City.
Now this was March 12th, 2020,so you know what happened.
I'm in the city and the city isshutting down.
I finish this workshop.
I get on the train.
I don't have a mask.
(23:02):
I like, I don't even have handsanitizer, and I'm like, oh my
gosh, I just wanna get home.
I live in Vermont, five hourtrain ride.
I get home and the world shutdown.
That was it.
Now I had learned agilemarketing.
It's all about iterations,right?
You, you create something, youget feedback, you create
something better.
Feedback.
The feedback loops, and I'msitting there at home.
(23:22):
And I'm like, how can Iimplement this as a team of one?
Because if you know anythingabout agility and agile, it's
came from the softwaredevelopment
Paul (23:32):
Yep.
Dorien (23:32):
and it's used in teams.
So they do sprints together,they work together well.
Everybody in that workshop.
Was part of a corporation, sothey were doing agile marketing
as a marketing team.
Dorien is a team of one.
So I kept asking during theworkshop, well, how does this
apply to me?
How does this apply to me?
I kept asking and pushing theenvelope and there really wasn't
an answer.
So once I was, we were all shutin.
(23:54):
started implementing some ofthose things and within three
months I gained back, and I'mnot lying about 15 hours a week.
Of time that now was minebecause I was doing things, I
was meeting with my clientsmore, but I was doing a lot less
work.
Let me say that again.
(24:14):
I was meeting more, but I wasdoing less work because instead
of working on something forthree hours, presenting it to
them and then saying, well, Idon't like this.
I had to start back over.
I would say, here are threeflyer concepts.
A, B, or C, which one do youlike?
You know, I send them an email.
They go A, so I take a and doversion A, 1, 2, 3, you know,
(24:35):
send them it back an hour later.
I just need you to take a quicklook.
One, two or three, and they'd gothree.
I'd go, okay, A three.
You know, and I, I, I was somuch faster and I was doing a
much better job of getting myclients what they wanted.
Paul (24:49):
Yeah.
Dorien (24:49):
you know, for implementation of working
together, right?
I started using Google Drive.
Now that's.
You can work asynchronously withyour clients, which I absolutely
love.
If you're a freelancerentrepreneur, you're listening
to this I do a lot of mycontent.
I create it in Google Docs.
I upload the images in there.
I make it look like, Hey, thisis, you know, I'm creating
(25:11):
content.
This is what a post's gonna looklike, but they can go work in
there.
I have a client who has twosmall children who nap on sat
who nap.
the afternoon.
So on Saturdays when she's notworking in her law firm, she'll
go and approve content whilethey nap.
But I'm not working on Saturday,but she can be because we can
work together on Monday when Iopen.
(25:31):
My email, there's her comments,now I can get the content done.
So that's all part of theagility piece where you can work
alongside each other, but getthat feedback, more feedback is
better.
And then at the end of everyproject, at the end of every
month, we do this retrospectiveof what worked really well.
And next time we have a project,what can we do to improve?
(25:54):
And then.
Another part of agility is whenyou do have a team, have these
daily standups.
Well, I started doing dailystandups with myself because
here's the honest truth.
Don't we all have something thatwe just dread doing?
And then push it off?
Push it off, push it off.
Well, when you say every day,when you answer every day, these
three questions, what did Iaccomplish yesterday?
(26:14):
am I planning to do today?
And where am I stuck?
Three days in a row, you'restuck on, I don't wanna send
this email, or you're stuck on,I don't wanna confront my
client.
You know where your bottleneckis.
So that
Paul (26:26):
Yep.
Dorien (26:26):
lot of time because I started doing.
the frog, right?
Do the thing that you don'twanna
Paul (26:31):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (26:32):
thing in the morning after my standup and that freed
up my mind, freed up my psyche.
I was like, okay, I'm relieved.
I feel better.
So just doing that daily thing,what did I accomplish yesterday?
Pat myself on the back.
What am I working on today?
Make three big goals and acouple small goals, and where am
I stuck?
the piece that I'm stuck first,or get somebody to come in to
(26:53):
help.
That opened up my week.
It just got things moving.
I wouldn't sit there for threehours scrolling because I was
trying to avoid, you know,sending this email or this
invoice, or make this phonecall.
And so adapting that agility inmarketing and that mindset.
helped me scale because what itallowed me to do is take on more
(27:13):
clients, take on bigger clients.
And so that was 2020.
That was the first year I madesix figures, and from there on
it went, so it, it really kindof was a big, pivotal moment,
but I.
Looking back at it, why itworked for me.
I think it's a lot of people, alot of, if you know anybody,
Dutch, if you're watchinglistening, if you know anybody
Dutch, you know that we're verypragmatic and it just made
(27:36):
sense.
This is how I was raised, right?
You get feedback all the time.
Little kids in the Netherlands.
Everybody learns how to tietheir shoes when they're in
kindergarten.
Everybody gets their swimmingdiploma when they're age six or
seven.
Everybody does stuff at the sametime, but you get this feedback
loop, Hey, you're not ready forthis, or You're ready for this.
And so learning that growing up,it made a lot of sense.
(27:57):
We were ready a lot earlier thanI think my American.
Peers because we would getfeedback on stuff.
No, you can't do that.
Yeah, you can do that.
And so we were given moreprivilege earlier on because we
were doing a good job.
And so I think my Dutch part ofmy brain and my being recognized
(28:17):
that.
was a piece that was missing inmy business, and that's why
that's worked out really, reallywell for me.
But anybody that's interested,you don't have to be Dutch to
implement Agile in yourmarketing, but it's fantastic.
I absolutely love it.
And there's, you know, I kind ofpicked and chose elements
because I'm a team of one.
It looks very different for methan it looks for other people,
but you can still practiceagility in your own business
(28:41):
even if you're a small team.
Paul (28:44):
AmazinDorieneen I've, I've, it's, it's rare that I
laugh this much during a podcastepisode, and we're so aligned on
so many things.
It's brilliant.
We could, we could, as you'vesaid before, the show, we could
easily go on for nine or 10hours together, I think.
Definitely.
I don't think anybody wants towatch that, but like, you know,
we definitely could.
So if people have been watchingalong, listening along and they
wanna find out a bit more aboutyourself or about about the
business, and or maybe they needsome help or advice, what's the
(29:06):
best way for them to contactyou?
I.
Dorien (29:08):
I'm on LinkedIn.
My handle is more in media.
I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on that'sYouTube.
I would say YouTube as well, butjust connect with me on LinkedIn
and send me a message and say,Hey, I listened to the podcast
with Paul and wanna connect withyou.
I love meeting new people.
I love my network.
That's how you and I met Paulthere on
Paul (29:30):
Yep.
Dorien (29:30):
so yeah, that's, that's the best place I.
If I have to define what I do,I'm a social media strategist
and a content marketer.
So I help founders and businessowners and professionals help
them with their social mediathat they either are stuck or
they can't move forward becausethey're not sure, like you said,
have that imposter syndrome.
(29:50):
Like are people sure they wannahear from me?
And I basically get what's inyour head.
I get it out on social media.
Paul (29:57):
Love it.
Thank you very much for yourtime, dear.
Pleasure Having you along as aguest.
Dorien (30:01):
Thank you so much.
Good afternoon and welcome back to MarketPulse Pros and
(00:02):
Pioneers.
Season two has kicked off withan absolute blast.
We've had some fantastic peopleon the show and this week is no
exception ladies and gentlemenwho are watching along, you
watching the show for a longtime.
I've, I've already been on thislady's podcast and I thoroughly
enjoyed the experience so muchso that I had to bring her back
and invite her on to oursplease, if you haven't met her
(00:25):
before, welcome Dorien Morin VanDam onto our show I've been,
I've been practicing out to seeand name, I'm sorry.
Like I need to get that right.
It makes me so anxious when Iget people with a name that
doesn't, it, it sounds verydifferent to how it's spelt.
Well, lovely to have you on theshow, Dorien,
Dorien (00:42):
Thanks for having
Paul (00:43):
how are you?
Dorien (00:44):
love talking, so this is gonna be great.
Paul (00:47):
And that's a Dutch name, right?
Dorien (00:48):
Yes it is.
I was born and raised in theNetherlands, and then I
immigrated to the US when I was18.
Paul (00:54):
Wow, that must have been some upheaval, some'cause I
would imagine an 18-year-oldyou've, you've got all your
friends there and you are kindof settled in place.
Dorien (01:03):
I, I, it was an adventure.
I was supposed to go for a yearand, you know, the age old
story, meeting somebody fallingin love and staying,
Paul (01:09):
Oh,
Dorien (01:10):
I've been
Paul (01:10):
yep.
Dorien (01:11):
country for years, so yeah, it's been a, it's been a
long time.
So I've spent more time in theUS than I.
Grew up in the Netherlands andspent time there, but I am 100%
Dutch, so that always will stickwith will that, you know, that
sticks with you no matter what.
Paul (01:27):
Fascinating.
And so.
Season two for this show hasfocused much more around
people's stories and how theygot where they are.
Because the more I've recordedthis podcast, the more I've
realized that nobody got here onpurpose.
Very, very few people I spoke tosaw in advance any of their
journey that they've been on,and I love that almost
(01:49):
serendipity and faith ledjourney that people have been on
because that's what makes usunique and that's what gives us
our, our unique selling points.
So walk me through where that,where that journey to America
went then Dorien because that'san opportunity to reinvent
yourself right At, at18-year-old, you could be
whatever you want.
Dorien (02:08):
Yeah, except I didn't really, I, I only had one goal
is to just be happy, which is asilly goal, but growing up in a
very strict Dutch reformedhousehold with the role model of
becoming a mom.
And so when I met somebody andfell in love.
That really was what I was gonnado.
But because we were so young andso poor, waited to have
(02:31):
children, we had that luxury.
And so I worked for seven yearsas a nanny before we even had
our first child ended up.
have four children.
They're all young adults now.
Youngest of 20, oldest is 28.
Lovely family, but.
At age 40, I walked my youngestinto kindergarten, and it was
one of those days thateverybody, you know, the moms
(02:54):
are crying.
They're standing there.
And I literally walked out ofthere with the biggest smile on
my face because I, that was myfourth one going to school.
I had been nannying for 20something years, nannying and,
and parenting, and this was thefirst time in, I think 22 years
that I had a day without achild.
Like a weekday.
(03:15):
And I had from seven 30 to two30 and I was like, what am I
gonna do
Paul (03:19):
Yeah.
Dorien (03:19):
time?
And this was 2010.
So think about what washappening.
Facebook was up and coming.
Twitter was up and coming.
Nobody locally where I lived wasdoing social media.
They were talking about it.
Businesses weren't doing it.
Nobody had time for it.
Nobody knew what it was.
And so I was contemplating goingto school.
Here I am at 40, you know, goingto get an education that I never
(03:42):
had.
And then we started, kind of didthe math.
My husband and I like, if I goto school for four years, by the
time I'm done, our first childis almost ready to go to college
himself.
How much earning power do Ihave?
We kind of did some of that mathand then I was like, well, what
can I do?
And I didn't, couldn't anddidn't want to go work for
somebody and have to go into anoffice.
So my husband had been.
(04:04):
has his own business, beenworking for himself remotely for
at least 10 years at that point,remote already.
This was 2010.
So he is like, well, what if youdo social media and, you know,
start working locally, but maybeyou can do some re remote work
like me?
So it took an online course andI am a very different learner
than he is.
(04:24):
So within three weeks of takingthe course, I literally.
Got a room at a localuniversity, put up a sign and
said, I'm teaching social mediato people.
I got a bunch of business ownersto come.
I'm teaching what I'm learningthree weeks before I'm teaching
that to them.
And my husband's looking at megoing, what are you doing?
(04:44):
I'm like, well, I'm learningnow.
I'm implementing.
This is how I learn.
By doing so I'm gonna geteverybody together.
I had to be at the university.
So we had good wifi and Istarted teaching.
I created a network calledHands-on Networking in the area.
What I was in.
Connecting business owners andsaying, when we meet in person,
now we can connect online, wecan boost each other's online
(05:05):
presence.
This was 2010 started workingwith local businesses, and
that's really how I got started.
I think.
I didn't know what I didn'tknow, so that's the biggest
thing that I had an advantagefor.
I didn't know how to behave inbusiness.
I've never been in business,never
Paul (05:20):
Yep.
Dorien (05:20):
business.
I've been, remember a nanny stayat home mom and I didn't know.
That you know how to dress orhow to act.
I just.
Was me.
And I think that worked to myadvantage for sure.
There were no expectations thatI had to live up to.
Paul (05:35):
Yep.
Dorien (05:36):
so I kind of carved my own way.
And especially since socialmedia was new, I was the first
social media manager in thelocal area.
So
Paul (05:43):
Yep.
Dorien (05:43):
a lot of referrals.
And one of the ways I gotstarted is that I kind of raised
my hand on LinkedIn and said,Hey, anybody need any help?
And there was a local charitythat was doing a golf.
A golf tournament and they weremaking
Paul (05:55):
Yeah.
Dorien (05:56):
a year in fundraising.
And I said, well, I can help.
And they go, well, we can't payyou.
And I said, well, if you give mea title, I will do it for free.
So they made me
Paul (06:05):
Yep.
Dorien (06:05):
director for three years for their tournament and we, the
third year raised$75,000 and we.
Can attribute that to socialmedia and the spread of social
media and sponsorship and beingable to tag people and be able
to get the word out.
So that was really my start by,you know, working with that
charity and then getting knownlocally.
(06:27):
So that was, that was really thegolden age of social media.
The, the really, the start that,
Paul (06:33):
From the outset.
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (06:35):
you call it.
Paul (06:36):
Yep.
Yep.
I, I, my, my son struggles tobelieve that I, I predate the
internet.
I, I must seem incredibly old tohim.
But I remember, I remember goinginto college and things just to
download things to bring home onfloppy disks because I didn't
have internet at home is, it's,it's unbelievable the
differences that we've seen andsuch a relatively short period
of time.
(06:56):
But why, why social media?
Then, I guess what, whatattracted you to social media?
Dorien (07:02):
Well, the funniest part was I wasn't attracted to social
media.
I actually didn't have aFacebook presence until my
husband said, check out socialmedia.
So
Paul (07:11):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (07:11):
went on Twitter, I went on Facebook and I started
checking it out.
I am, I like in-person meetings,so it
Paul (07:18):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (07:19):
to be the thing that I could go into without a lot of
training.
Paul (07:25):
Yep.
Dorien (07:26):
I do like communicating know, raising kids and raising
teenagers.
You have to be overcommunicative to make sure you
get the point across.
And so I'd also, in all thoseyears a stay-at-home mom, I have
been on all kinds of committees.
I had learned to navigate adifficult situations empathy.
I was on the P-T-O-P-T-A, I wason I was an elder at my church.
(07:50):
There were a lot of.
Decisions that were made.
A lot of I was on, a lot ofprojects I was involved with.
That helped set me up for whatsocial media ended up doing.
You know, first it's onlinenetworking.
It's building community, which Ihad done immediately.
I, I moved to an area in 2000.
(08:12):
We lived in Myrtle Beach, SouthCarolina.
That's where we moved to when wehad two young children.
I was pregnant with my thirdnow.
My husband's not from SouthCarolina.
My family's in Europe.
I moved there five monthspregnant, and my biggest goal
was in the next four months toget to know somebody well enough
that I could stash my two kidswith them while I went into
labor so my husband could bewith me.
(08:33):
That literally was my goal, so Inetworked.
The heck outta myself to meetother moms.
I was part of the moms club.
I ended up being the presidentof the
Paul (08:43):
Yeah.
Dorien (08:43):
club, but I made real connections everywhere and that
understanding of how people workand that people needed to be
part of community has reallyhelped me in social media.
You know, I think.
we now are in 2025, there isthat debate that comes back, you
know, every year about do weneed skills or do we, do you
(09:05):
need hard skills or soft skills?
Do we need to have somebody whounderstands the algorithm of
TikTok or do we need somebodywho understands?
The algorithm of people, right?
Do we
Paul (09:14):
Yep.
Dorien (09:14):
somebody that has empathy or do we want to, to
know the data behind everything?
And, and the truth is we needboth and we need'em to work
Paul (09:22):
Yep.
Dorien (09:23):
But starting out, you know, 15 years ago, it really
was about understandingpsychology and people and
communication.
And, you know, data came a lotlater to, you know, be
successful.
So a lot of younger people whocan probably do great growing a
TikTok account or you know, anykind of social media account,
(09:44):
they might not understandcustomer service piece of social
media.
Paul (09:48):
Yep.
Dorien (09:49):
that's where, that's where I've really found, that's
why I went into organic socialinstead of ads.
Paul (09:54):
Yep.
Dorien (09:55):
love that part.
The customer service,
Paul (09:56):
Yeah.
Dorien (09:57):
Retention piece.
Paul (09:58):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
And I, it's something that,that's always been core to my
principles as well is that kindof, I always said to my wife
many years ago, before I evenleft retail we know, we, we,
we'd get handymen out to do jobsaround the house or we'd, we'd
phone them up and we'd ask themto do something, even just come
out and do a court, and probablyfour out of five just wouldn't
(10:19):
even bother to turn up for thecourt.
And I always said.
Making money out of people isreally, really easy.
And she said, well, what?
What do you mean Paul?
How can that, how can that be?
I said, well, it's very simple,right?
All you've gotta do is tellsomeone what you're gonna do.
Tell someone how much it'll be.
Tell'em when you'll be there andtell them how you'll do it.
(10:41):
And then do those four things.
That's it.
And if you can do those fourthings, you will win hearts and
minds, because the vast majorityof people can't.
Dorien (10:50):
So, yeah.
Paul (10:51):
it's, it's just be reliable and consistent.
I think that's, but yes, thatcustomer service piece is, is
huge and I think a lot of peoplemiss that ability to engage in
conversa in genuineconversations, not, not money
led conversations and just seewhere the relationship builds
to.
Um, which brings me on to kindof storytelling, which I know is
a huge part of the way you workwith your clients and what you
(11:15):
are all about on social media.
So.
Where did you start to see theimportance of storytelling in
your own business, in your ownlife?
Is, is that how you managed tobecome successful?
Dorien (11:26):
Yeah.
So, you know, if you read mybio, you see I wear my orange
glasses as a nod to my Dutchheritance.
That actually kind of happenedby accident.
The first year I was inbusiness.
Somebody sent me a cardboardpair of orange glasses with a
little crown on it.
The, the Netherlands had at thattime, a, a queen
Paul (11:46):
Yeah.
Dorien (11:46):
Queen day is in April, and so it was Queen Day I was
missing the Netherlands.
She sent me those glasses and Iput'em on, and when I, and I,
and I put that picture as myprofile picture, this was the
start of my business.
And I would go into town and goto my hands-on networking
meetings and my.
Other networking meetings andpeople would go, oh, you are the
girl of the orange glasses.
(12:08):
And so that piece ofrecognition, that's what I was
known for initially, not what Idid, but by my look.
So I very quickly realized thatand I started buying orange
glasses just.
Over the counter, noprescription.
And I wore orange glasses for 10years without a prescription
because it helped me
Paul (12:28):
Uhhuh.
Dorien (12:29):
recognized sort of as a logo then in
Paul (12:31):
Yeah.
Dorien (12:32):
orange in my logo and, and all of that stuff.
But that's kind of where thatstarts.
But.
People like that's when Irealized people like a story.
People like to something aboutyou so they can remember you.
The other story I often tellthese are people that I network
with, and now that you're partof my network, you'll hear the
story too.
But I shared every year on May5th is that my husband and I met
(12:55):
at a bus stop and then gotmarried at the bus stop only
seven months later.
And so it's
Paul (13:00):
It.
Dorien (13:00):
my story, but it's also part of.
How I am as a person, thisdefines
Paul (13:06):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (13:07):
good, it is good.
I
Paul (13:08):
Yep.
Dorien (13:09):
need, we don't need the big budget or the big bells and
whistles.
Right?
And this
Paul (13:15):
Yep,
Dorien (13:15):
a metaphor for, for marketing.
What you need is.
What comes after, right?
I wasn't worried about the bigwedding.
We had a very small wedding atthe bus stop with 40 of our
friends and a bunch of peoplewho got off the bus.
But it's not about the wedding,it's about the marriage.
What do you do afterwards?
Right?
So
Paul (13:31):
Yeah.
Dorien (13:31):
about getting this flashy ad up or this.
This, this one campaign.
It's about how you conductyourself online at all times and
how you, how you tell that storyof your, of your, your mission,
your vision if you're, you know,a sustainable company what you
stand for things that you'rewilling to do and not do as a
business owner, right?
Your morals,
Paul (13:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dorien (13:52):
that's all part of your story and telling that is
really, really powerful becausenot everybody.
Is your audience.
You know, I love,
Paul (14:01):
Mm.
Dorien (14:01):
beginning of when I started doing social media, you
Paul (14:03):
Yeah.
Dorien (14:04):
didn't know what questions to ask.
So I would say, you know, who'syour audience?
And people say, oh, everybody.
And I'm like, oh, we, we canwork with that.
No, you can't work with that.
Who is your audience?
Who is your ideal
Paul (14:13):
Yeah.
Dorien (14:13):
Who do you wanna target?
Who pays you the most or whopays you the most often?
Or who comes back every year?
Like those are your mostprofitable ones who has
Paul (14:21):
Yeah.
Dorien (14:21):
you the longest.
So those are the people we needto target.
And.
That storytelling to them to, toget them in.
But you, you have to show alittle bit of yourself.
You have to human, be humanright, and have those human
feelings.
And, and that's kind of wherethat storytelling started when I
realized that people recognizedme.
(14:42):
In person from something theyhad seen online.
The same thing happened thefirst time I went to a big
conference.
I didn't know anybody flew fromSouth Carolina to San Diego.
I'm in this huge place with like3000 people and this girl comes
running to me and goes, oh mygosh, Dorien I did not know who
she was, but she knew me fromTwitter'cause I was wearing my
orange glasses.
(15:03):
So that connection, connection
Paul (15:05):
Yeah.
Dorien (15:06):
world and the.
The in-person world is reallyimportant, and I think that if
you and I were to meet Paul inreal life, we'd feel the same
way because this
Paul (15:15):
Yep.
Dorien (15:15):
connection that we're making.
And I think that is somethingthat storytelling, that piece is
missing from a lot of people'smarketing, and that's what I
want to give to
Paul (15:25):
Yep.
Dorien (15:25):
right?
Grab their story and, and shareit with the world.
Paul (15:30):
and a lot of people are kind of.
A little bit afraid of tellingtheir story.
'cause they, they wanna remain,they wanna be humble and they
don't feel as though their storyis what's gonna make the sale.
And they really struggle.
I, I think, you know, most, mostbusiness owners probably have to
tell their story 500 timesbefore they're anywhere near
like a, a starting point fortheir story.
It evolves over time.
Right.
Like what, what advice would yougive to a business that's out
(15:52):
there that maybe they'rerelatively new and trying to
find their story, whatever thatlooks like for them.
Dorien (15:58):
So one of the things that I recently kind of started
adapting and, and help tellingpeople about, it's not about
creating content, it's aboutdocumenting this, the, the, the.
Documenting the journey.
So when you're a founder, I'mworking with a brand new startup
right now, and they're going totheir first conference this
(16:18):
week, right?
So we're in a all team meetingand they're like, yeah, we, we
don't necessarily, you know,wanna be in the picture because,
you know, we're, we're, we'restartup.
And I'm like, well, can you.
Do pictures of the people whohave the, you know, booth next
to you.
You know, can you tell the storyabout your travel?
You don't necessarily have toshow your face, but we're on a
plane, or your product is on theplane.
(16:39):
Or you know, you can have
Paul (16:41):
Yep.
Dorien (16:42):
angles, but sharing the journey.
Document what you're doing.
Document your meeting.
This meeting, let's take apicture.
Even if we don't post it now,maybe we post it in a year.
Right?
Paul (16:53):
Yeah.
Dorien (16:53):
the, then we have the way back machine, but document
everything because that makesyou realize all the stuff that
you are doing.
So instead of thinking, oh, Igotta create content, no, you're
documenting your day, your week,your meetings, your successes,
your failures.
And I think
Paul (17:10):
Yep.
Dorien (17:11):
you start thinking about it like that, that it's a.
Piece of history for yourcompany.
Then it starts making sense, andthen you don't have to think
about how to post it on social.
Then you put give it to yoursocial person.
If you document everything as abusiness owner, as this, the as
a C-Suite team, your socialmedia team can do all kinds of
magic with that, but you startdocumenting that.
Paul (17:33):
It is funny, I I was literally having this
conversation about an hour and ahalf ago with, with with
someone.
And the question to me, and I'm,I'm, I'm gonna get your answer
first on this, and I, and I knowwhat it is already.
I I already have it figured.
But what he said to me was Idon't wanna be famous, Paul.
So I, I really wanna get onvideo and I, or like I'm happy
to do it for the business.
(17:54):
But, but do you think I haveanything to add?
And, and is it gonna addanything to the business if I
get on video?
And I know you are a bigbeliever in video as well, so,
I, I, I really, I'm lookingforward to seeing what you see
on this, but I.
Dorien (18:06):
shows your passion.
If you are on video, if, I meanyou are getting me to talk about
everything that I love.
If
Paul (18:14):
Yeah.
Dorien (18:15):
this, you can see that I'm excited about social media.
You can see that I'm excitedabout my business and I'm
excited about video.
I'm excited about helping small
Paul (18:23):
Yeah.
Dorien (18:24):
That's why I am on video because I can't convey that.
In a written story on LinkedIn,it's my facial expressions is my
Paul (18:32):
Yeah.
Dorien (18:32):
It's the tone of my voice.
It's my rattling off all thegreat stuff that's happening in
my business.
When you are a founder, whenyou're a C-Suite, there's a
reason you either got hired oryou started the company or you
Paul (18:45):
Yep.
Dorien (18:45):
decisions.
Share those reasons.
Share what's happening.
what people wanna know.
People, businesses are gonna dobusiness with.
if they know the people behind abusiness, right?
Paul (18:58):
Yep.
Dorien (18:58):
B, B2B, it's business to business, but it's really still,
as we always say, H to H.
It's human to human.
There's two people signing onthe dotted line
Paul (19:06):
Yeah.
Dorien (19:06):
a contract, don't forget, and that's, they people
have a lot of choices.
Right.
If I
Paul (19:11):
Yep.
Dorien (19:12):
to go find a new tool to livestream, there's probably 10
choices out there.
Who am I going to sign with?
It's, first of all, I'm gonna goto all my friends and ask them,
what are you using?
Then I'm gonna go online andlook at reviews.
Next, I'm gonna go to forums andsee what people say, and maybe
fourth, I'm gonna try to do ademo and see what the people
(19:32):
that work there, how theyrespond to me, and then I'll
make a decision.
But ultimately, I do wanna knowwho's behind.
That tool because if somethinggoes wrong, I wanna know who's
there.
So
Paul (19:45):
Yep.
Dorien (19:46):
B2B, you still want to be shown.
And then founders haveincredible insight.
There's always a passion whythey started a business.
Very rarely do they start, abusiness goes.
They go, oh, I can make tellmillion.
Tell tell$10 million.
That's why I'm starting abusiness.
No, they're solving a problem.
Most businesses are created'cause they're solving a
problem.
What problem are you solving andhow are you making people's
(20:07):
lives better?
Talk about that and when you dothat
Paul (20:10):
Yep.
Dorien (20:10):
That sells it for you.
You don't need to do anythingelse.
And if you're listening to thisand you're founder, your C-suite
and you haven't done video,think about this.
Your videos, especially onLinkedIn, are gonna amplify what
your team is doing on LinkedInpages.
They're, it's gonna amplify alltheir hard work on TikTok, on
Instagram, everywhere elsebecause now they see you and
(20:33):
they can
Paul (20:34):
Yeah,
Dorien (20:34):
your content to amplify.
Business voice and so yeah, Idon't see any reason not to do
it.
It's not gonna make you famous.
It's gonna make you humanrecognizable.
That's it.
Paul (20:47):
almost word for word.
I love it.
Almost exact same conversation Ihad with him.
The, the thing I'd caveat allthat with as well is, you know,
especially for businesses thatare in a crowded space, you
know, when your, your idealtarget audience gets to a point
where they're about to make adecision and they've got you
versus somebody who offerspretty much what you offer
rather than getting to a race tothe bottom on services and, and
(21:09):
price and, and all those sortsof things.
If the person on the other endknows a little bit about you and
they believe in you and.
What you stand for as a personand as a business, then they'll
actually be willing to pay morefor that than even just pay the
same or less.
So instead of then diving intothat race to the bottom, stop
putting yourself in that, thatrace to the top and put your
(21:30):
hand up.
So I, I, yeah, I, I can'trecommend that enough.
I love that.
Thank you very much for sharingthat, Dorien Um, coming back to
your journey then, like, I lovethe fact that you bring Agile
marketing.
Into, into the fold.
And that's, that's something I,I don't hear anybody else
talking about agile marketing,like it's marketing or it's not
marketing.
(21:50):
So do you wanna, do you wannawalk us through where that came
from and how you, how you workwith that?
Dorien (21:55):
Sure.
In 2018, I signed a
Paul (21:58):
I.
Dorien (21:58):
contract with a team that was an Agile team, and they
are business coaches and they gointo businesses, large
corporations, and they dofacilitation.
They teach communication, and Ireally enjoyed working for them
and.
About a year and a half in, Igot this email from the founder
(22:21):
of that company and she kind oflike, just kind of like slid it
in in an email and she goes, youknow, you can use Agile for
marketing, right?
And my was like, what?
so she sends me a link to anagile marketing workshop, and
it's the first time in nineyears I've been in business
since 2000.
(22:41):
20, early 2020, so 10 years inbusiness.
First time I was like, sign meup.
I don't care how much it costs.
It was a two day conference in aworkshop in New York City.
Now this was March 12th, 2020,so you know what happened.
I'm in the city and the city isshutting down.
I finish this workshop.
I get on the train.
I don't have a mask.
(23:02):
I like, I don't even have handsanitizer, and I'm like, oh my
gosh, I just wanna get home.
I live in Vermont, five hourtrain ride.
I get home and the world shutdown.
That was it.
Now I had learned agilemarketing.
It's all about iterations,right?
You, you create something, youget feedback, you create
something better.
Feedback.
The feedback loops, and I'msitting there at home.
(23:22):
And I'm like, how can Iimplement this as a team of one?
Because if you know anythingabout agility and agile, it's
came from the softwaredevelopment
Paul (23:32):
Yep.
Dorien (23:32):
and it's used in teams.
So they do sprints together,they work together well.
Everybody in that workshop.
Was part of a corporation, sothey were doing agile marketing
as a marketing team.
Dorien is a team of one.
So I kept asking during theworkshop, well, how does this
apply to me?
How does this apply to me?
I kept asking and pushing theenvelope and there really wasn't
an answer.
So once I was, we were all shutin.
(23:54):
started implementing some ofthose things and within three
months I gained back, and I'mnot lying about 15 hours a week.
Of time that now was minebecause I was doing things, I
was meeting with my clientsmore, but I was doing a lot less
work.
Let me say that again.
(24:14):
I was meeting more, but I wasdoing less work because instead
of working on something forthree hours, presenting it to
them and then saying, well, Idon't like this.
I had to start back over.
I would say, here are threeflyer concepts.
A, B, or C, which one do youlike?
You know, I send them an email.
They go A, so I take a and doversion A, 1, 2, 3, you know,
(24:35):
send them it back an hour later.
I just need you to take a quicklook.
One, two or three, and they'd gothree.
I'd go, okay, A three.
You know, and I, I, I was somuch faster and I was doing a
much better job of getting myclients what they wanted.
Paul (24:49):
Yeah.
Dorien (24:49):
you know, for implementation of working
together, right?
I started using Google Drive.
Now that's.
You can work asynchronously withyour clients, which I absolutely
love.
If you're a freelancerentrepreneur, you're listening
to this I do a lot of mycontent.
I create it in Google Docs.
I upload the images in there.
I make it look like, Hey, thisis, you know, I'm creating
(25:11):
content.
This is what a post's gonna looklike, but they can go work in
there.
I have a client who has twosmall children who nap on sat
who nap.
the afternoon.
So on Saturdays when she's notworking in her law firm, she'll
go and approve content whilethey nap.
But I'm not working on Saturday,but she can be because we can
work together on Monday when Iopen.
(25:31):
My email, there's her comments,now I can get the content done.
So that's all part of theagility piece where you can work
alongside each other, but getthat feedback, more feedback is
better.
And then at the end of everyproject, at the end of every
month, we do this retrospectiveof what worked really well.
And next time we have a project,what can we do to improve?
(25:54):
And then.
Another part of agility is whenyou do have a team, have these
daily standups.
Well, I started doing dailystandups with myself because
here's the honest truth.
Don't we all have something thatwe just dread doing?
And then push it off?
Push it off, push it off.
Well, when you say every day,when you answer every day, these
three questions, what did Iaccomplish yesterday?
(26:14):
am I planning to do today?
And where am I stuck?
Three days in a row, you'restuck on, I don't wanna send
this email, or you're stuck on,I don't wanna confront my
client.
You know where your bottleneckis.
So that
Paul (26:26):
Yep.
Dorien (26:26):
lot of time because I started doing.
the frog, right?
Do the thing that you don'twanna
Paul (26:31):
Mm-hmm.
Dorien (26:32):
thing in the morning after my standup and that freed
up my mind, freed up my psyche.
I was like, okay, I'm relieved.
I feel better.
So just doing that daily thing,what did I accomplish yesterday?
Pat myself on the back.
What am I working on today?
Make three big goals and acouple small goals, and where am
I stuck?
the piece that I'm stuck first,or get somebody to come in to
(26:53):
help.
That opened up my week.
It just got things moving.
I wouldn't sit there for threehours scrolling because I was
trying to avoid, you know,sending this email or this
invoice, or make this phonecall.
And so adapting that agility inmarketing and that mindset.
helped me scale because what itallowed me to do is take on more
(27:13):
clients, take on bigger clients.
And so that was 2020.
That was the first year I madesix figures, and from there on
it went, so it, it really kindof was a big, pivotal moment,
but I.
Looking back at it, why itworked for me.
I think it's a lot of people, alot of, if you know anybody,
Dutch, if you're watchinglistening, if you know anybody
Dutch, you know that we're verypragmatic and it just made
(27:36):
sense.
This is how I was raised, right?
You get feedback all the time.
Little kids in the Netherlands.
Everybody learns how to tietheir shoes when they're in
kindergarten.
Everybody gets their swimmingdiploma when they're age six or
seven.
Everybody does stuff at the sametime, but you get this feedback
loop, Hey, you're not ready forthis, or You're ready for this.
And so learning that growing up,it made a lot of sense.
(27:57):
We were ready a lot earlier thanI think my American.
Peers because we would getfeedback on stuff.
No, you can't do that.
Yeah, you can do that.
And so we were given moreprivilege earlier on because we
were doing a good job.
And so I think my Dutch part ofmy brain and my being recognized
(28:17):
that.
was a piece that was missing inmy business, and that's why
that's worked out really, reallywell for me.
But anybody that's interested,you don't have to be Dutch to
implement Agile in yourmarketing, but it's fantastic.
I absolutely love it.
And there's, you know, I kind ofpicked and chose elements
because I'm a team of one.
It looks very different for methan it looks for other people,
but you can still practiceagility in your own business
(28:41):
even if you're a small team.
Paul (28:44):
AmazinDorieneen I've, I've, it's, it's rare that I
laugh this much during a podcastepisode, and we're so aligned on
so many things.
It's brilliant.
We could, we could, as you'vesaid before, the show, we could
easily go on for nine or 10hours together, I think.
Definitely.
I don't think anybody wants towatch that, but like, you know,
we definitely could.
So if people have been watchingalong, listening along and they
wanna find out a bit more aboutyourself or about about the
business, and or maybe they needsome help or advice, what's the
(29:06):
best way for them to contactyou?
I.
Dorien (29:08):
I'm on LinkedIn.
My handle is more in media.
I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on that'sYouTube.
I would say YouTube as well, butjust connect with me on LinkedIn
and send me a message and say,Hey, I listened to the podcast
with Paul and wanna connect withyou.
I love meeting new people.
I love my network.
That's how you and I met Paulthere on
Paul (29:30):
Yep.
Dorien (29:30):
so yeah, that's, that's the best place I.
If I have to define what I do,I'm a social media strategist
and a content marketer.
So I help founders and businessowners and professionals help
them with their social mediathat they either are stuck or
they can't move forward becausethey're not sure, like you said,
have that imposter syndrome.
(29:50):
Like are people sure they wannahear from me?
And I basically get what's inyour head.
I get it out on social media.
Paul (29:57):
Love it.
Thank you very much for yourtime, dear.
Pleasure Having you along as aguest.
Dorien (30:01):
Thank you so much.
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