October 22, 2025 • 32 mins
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Are you a new parent desperate for better sleep — for you and your baby?
This episode is your lifeline. We’re joined by Shani Avidar, founder of The Sleep Concierge, a former banker who transformed her life (and thousands of others) by helping families reclaim their nights. From battling sleep deprivation to running a purpose-led business, this episode dives deep into what it really takes to solve baby sleep — and rediscover your own wellbeing.
🛏 Learn how ADHD affects baby sleep and parenting routines
👶 The truth behind the 4-month regression (and other sleep myths)
💼 Hear Shani’s story of leaving corporate life to follow her calling
🧠 Explore the psychology of sleep and why most coaches get it wrong
📈 Get actionable advice if you're building a business from purpose
Whether you're a parent, a coach, or a founder looking for clarity — this is 30 minutes of insights you won't find on Google. Shani speaks honestly about motherhood, identity, business pressure and why “self-care isn’t selfish.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
Are you a parent struggling with sleepless nights
and exhausted days?
Shani Avidar shares today howparents can create healthy sleep
habits without the stress, pluswhy she left a corporate career
to follow her passion.
Shani is a certified pediatricsleep coach, a lactation
(00:21):
consultant and founder of MyLittle Dreamer, where she helps
exhausted parents navigate thechallenges of infant and toddler
sleep.
Her journey into sleep coachingwasn't just professional, it was
also personal.
After struggling with sleepdeprivation while raising her
three children back to back, shedove deep into research and
(00:41):
training.
Discovering the baby-led sleepapproach, which transformed her
parenting and ultimately led toa career shift.
Before launching my LittleDreamer, Shani spent nearly two
decades in high level roles inthe financial sector, including
regulatory compliance and datagovernance.
And now she applies heranalytical problem solving
skills to a much differentchallenge, helping families get
(01:04):
the sleep they desperately need.
Shani, welcome to the show.
Lovely to have you along.
Shani Avidar (01:09):
Thanks for having me.
Paul (01:11):
You'll have noticed that there's a lot of passion went
into that bio from my behalf,because as I read the words, I
know I've lived that life.
I, my, my eldest turns out he'snow on the path for ADHD, which
meant.
We didn't know it at the time,but a lot of the tips and tricks
that we got told about how toget kids to sleep and how to
help them sleep and all the restof it were kind of irrelevant as
(01:34):
he grew up.
And he was a little bit older.
And I remember advising one ofmy friends who was having a baby
probably about a year after we'dhad our first, and I just kind
of said, Matt, however tired isthe most tired you've ever felt
in your life, could you picturethat in your head right now?
And he said, yeah.
I said, right.
I want you to multiply that by30 and then apply that to every
(01:55):
single day for the next sixmonths.
'cause that's what it's like Isays, it's parenting is the most
am amazing experience in theworld, but my God, it's tiring,
especially in those early days.
So that's my personal backgroundon this.
I've got two lovely boys.
I love them to bits and I'm in amuch better place now than I
was, but I'm looking forward toone, diving into the journey
(02:17):
that you've been on to where youare now.
And two, sharing a bit of youradvice so that perhaps we can
get some other people starteddown that same path.
So lovely to have you along.
thank
Shani Avidar (02:26):
You and I totally agree with you.
I wish.
We all got
Paul (02:29):
I.
Shani Avidar (02:29):
More education during the prenatal stage.
And from my experience when Iwas pregnant with my first, I
went to all the classes that thehospital had, and my husband and
I were sitting there.
We didn't have any experiencein.
We learned how to change diapersand CPR and all that, but no one
talked to us about sleep and wewere working full time.
(02:53):
And for me, the expectation wasto finish maternity leave and
come back to the office andperform as before.
And we were exhausted.
The baby arrived.
We didn't know how to parent andwe were expected to leave the
hospital, go home and know whatto do.
And in reality, no one knowswhat to do.
And it's the hardest job ever.
(03:16):
And especially when you're sleepdeprived, you, you're exhausted
and you're expected to take careof a newborn.
I.
so like you mentioned, I spentalmost 20 years in the financial
industry and because I'm a typeA personality, I'm a planner, I
started researching sleepbecause I knew what I was up
(03:36):
against and I wanted to prepare.
And I read about all the sleeptraining methods out there, and
there was no way I would let mychild cry out in their crib or
just.
You know, following a chart likethe Ferber method and I came
across the Baby-Led SleepApproach that basically talks
(03:57):
about the bond between parentsand their children, and we learn
how to schedule and setroutines.
But we also know that nutritionplays a big part of sleep, and
psychology has a big role.
So the words that we use withour kids, even when they're a
few days old, they matter.
(04:18):
And the earliest you start withyour child and teach them the
sleep of skill, that skill ofsleep, then it's easier.
And that's how you don'texperience the challenges that
come later on, like the ninemonths separation anxiety and
other, you know, teethingdifficulties So basically you
(04:40):
learn what's the reason yourchild might be crying You are
better equipped to, to deal withthat.
so for me personally, I wasliterally pregnant for three
years because I have three boysand they're one year apart each.
And I wanted them to sleep, butI needed them to sleep.
And thankfully I learned and Igot certified and I was starting
(05:05):
my company parallel to bankingwhere I was at the time.
And I realised that, you know,it's really comes down to lack
of education.
And I started talking to parentsand educating them and growing
my company until I realisedthere are so many parents out
there that could use myservices.
And I left the corporate worldand I just focused on my
(05:29):
business.
And I've been doing it for a fewyears now, I'm happy to see
results.
I'm happy when parents come tome and they are so sleep
deprived.
and after a few days of workingwith me, they can get a good
night's sleep or they decide toget pregnant again because
they're finally sleeping.
Paul (05:48):
Well, let's rewind back to that banking career then.
So, like, first of all, I'mgonna, I'm gonna call out the
white elephant in the room.
There aren't many women whomanage to make it to the top of
the banking industry.
We know this, right?
It's a heavily male dominatedenvironment.
So I imagine you've workedincredibly hard to get there.
Why did you choose complianceand risk management?
(06:10):
What was it about compliance andrisk that attracted you in the
first place?
Shani Avidar (06:13):
So I am, I'm a CPA Ever since I remember I wanted
to be a CFO and I started mycareer Ernst and Young, one of
the big four accounting firms.
And then I moved into a, theprivate sector.
I worked in another partaccounting firm.
I remember once I became acontroller at a property
(06:35):
management company, I realisedthat this is so boring and there
no way I would want to spend therest of my career doing that.
And I was drawn to law and Iwanted something.
That kind of like combines lawand accounting and I didn't know
what it was, but I met one ofthe CEOs of a big bank and he
(07:00):
asked me, what do you thinkabout compliance?
And I said, I have no idea whatthat is, but you know, tell me
about it.
And he said, well, let.
Let's start by having you jointhe legal department and
starting the compliancedepartment in our bank.
And I did that for a while inNew York City.
(07:20):
And then after 10 years I tomoved to Miami because weather
was so much better here, and Ifound a position of the largest,
and advisory firms and I joinedtheir team and my clients were
financial institutions all overthe world.
(07:40):
but I was traveling a lot and Ithen decided to just find a
position within a local bank.
It's an international bank and Iended up starting the compliance
department there and then theregulatory compliance and then
the data governance until Imanaged a team.
In Spain, Latin America, and theUS when Spanish is not my first
(08:03):
language, and I did get to thetop, but once I became a mom and
just realised first of all, Iwanted to spend more time with
my kids.
I, I never thought I would be afounder of a company.
That's not something I everenvisioned for myself.
I.
But you know, life takes you andif you're open to it, then just
(08:27):
you know, take the risk.
And one day when after I foundedmy company and I told my
husband, listen, I think passionis with the company that I own
and not so much with thecorporate that I belong to.
And he said, life is too shortto be unhappy.
So just do whatever you feelthat is good for you.
(08:47):
And.
I did and I'm lucky to have, youknow, a supporting husband.
But it's been great since then.
Paul (08:54):
I think it's an incredibly powerful story and one that I
wish more people couldexperience for themselves
because.
I speak to people who are stuckand I mean, stuck in corporate
roles, not because they'relimited by their skillset or
their like their ambition even,or their intelligence, but
because they don't even realisethat there's another world out
(09:16):
there and that starting your owncompany is something that
happens to other people.
It's something that happens toextremely gifted and talented
people, and I'm not one of thosepeople.
I don't have that skillset.
I couldn't do that.
I could never run my ownbusiness exactly as you've said.
And yet I see it time and timeagain.
When you are thrown into thefire and you decide to make that
(09:38):
decision, for whatever reason,we survive, we manage, we make
it work, and we are successful.
And before you know it, you'vekind of transformed into a
person that can't understand.
How we never knew this waspossible in the first place
because I'd be willing to betfor the first, you know, that 20
year career that you were in, infinance, in banking, in
compliance, it probably wasn'teven a thought that crossed your
(10:01):
mind that you'd ever start yourown business, let alone be
scared of it.
Like why would
Shani Avidar (10:05):
yeah.
Paul (10:06):
I mean, it's good money, it's secure, it's got future,
it's got potential.
I've got a career and thenchildren change so much about
us.
Right.
Okay.
Shani Avidar (10:15):
Yeah, and I think the pandemic kinda like
contributed to it At some pointeveryone was sure we were gonna
work remote forever, and then itchanged too.
But I think people startedthinking.
About prioritizing themselves,prioritizing their passions, and
life is too short to justsomething that you're not happy
(10:39):
about or you're not comfortablewith.
Paul (10:41):
Yep.
I completely agree.
first of all, you had threechildren back to back.
I can't, and I could never makethat decision on purpose or act
like I would.
I'd be done.
Like we've got two and I said, Ialways said I wanted three kids.
So we had the first one and Ilove him to bits, and he's now
(11:02):
almost eight.
We had the second one we waitedfor COVID because we wanted to
get married before we had him.
So we got married, then we hadhim and my wife and I just
looked at each other.
It was a, in fairness, it was apretty traumatic birth.
It was an emergency cesareansection.
It was pretty touch and go.
At one point we just looked ateach other and I just went, now
we're done.
(11:22):
That's it.
I don't want to risk you byhaving another birth.
'cause both births had somecomplications.
The second one tipped me overthe edge and I just said, you
know what, I'm, I don't want to,I don't wanna risk anything
more.
We don't need a third.
We're quite happy as we are, andwe had that, but we're almost a
little bit, we plan to have themcloser together.
So three though, back to back, Ican't imagine having a
(11:45):
3-year-old, a 2-year-old and anewborn at the same time.
What was that like, Shani?
Shani Avidar (11:50):
And it was I think because I had the skillset and
I.
My per personality is very much,I'm a type A, I need a plan.
I just know my schedule.
But I also think, and when Ispeak to my clients, I also tell
them, you need to prioritiseyourself because if you don't,
you cannot take care of anyoneelse.
(12:13):
I managed, I was very strict onschedule.
I was very strict with ourroutines.
My husband travels 98% of thetime, so it was.
Me needing to make sure that thehousehold was on schedules.
And you know, my kids are stilllittle.
They are three, four, and fiveeven when we travel.
(12:34):
And we just recently got backfrom Israel and with jet lag,
everything, they were sleepingamazing from day one that we got
there.
And when we got back there wasno jet lag or anything.
So it's really up to you as theparent to teach your child how
to become a good sleeper.
And if you do, then you takecare of yourself.
(12:57):
Because for me, it was all aboutknowing how my day is gonna look
like.
If I knew that I could work outin the morning at the certain
time, that would make me happy,because if I don't work out, I
don't have patience.
So for me, that is a must.
But I knew also when I was gonnatake a shower, when I was gonna
have lunch.
It's just setting, you know,expectations and creating
(13:20):
routines and schedules.
Paul (13:21):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna compare this to a SaaS business,
right?
When I speak to a SaaS businessowner, there's two camps quite
often as those that have had agreat idea and build something
to solve a problem, but don'treally have the fundamental
experience within that industryto make it work.
And they have to bring inexperts to help them.
And it never, in my opinion,never quite is the same as
(13:43):
somebody who's been on the otherside of the desk and thought, do
you know what?
I need to create something thatsolves this problem for people
like me.
I know what the pain is, I'mgonna go and fix it.
And those businesses always seemto do really well.
I've worked in one of those, soI know firsthand the difference
that can make.
And you've done the same thing,right?
So you went through thatchallenging time, that sleep
(14:04):
deprivation and all the problemsthat went with that, and you've
now built your own business tosolve that problem for others.
What does that feel like whenyou are helping other parents
who, you know exactly theemotions that they must be
feeling, the tiredness'causebecause it's hard to describe to
somebody who's never beenthrough it, right?
Like you, you can never quitehelp them understand just how
(14:27):
hard and tough that can be.
What's it like being the personthat helps them change that?
Shani Avidar (14:32):
I think the word is satisfaction because I know.
Not only they get more sleep,but imagine when you're tired,
how often you tend to fight withyour spouse because you're
tired.
I'm looking at it as like from apoint of, I'm contributing to
the all, to the wellbeing of theentire family because you know,
(14:55):
they get sleep.
They don't fight as theywould've if they didn't come to
me, and it's just creating ahappy family versus.
Parents that are in a survivalmode.
Paul (15:07):
And do you find that a lot of your clients now are similar
people to where you were?
Is that something that you focuson or is it, I mean, am I off
the mark there?
Shani Avidar (15:16):
I think I have a mix.
So I have moms that come to meand they're like, they have
their corporate job, they areplanners.
They need to actually preparefor going back to the office,
and I can.
relate to that.
And I have some moms that cometo me and they are stay at home
moms, but they have multiplekids.
They need to make sure that theyget sleep, that their children
(15:38):
get the rest that they need.
And so I work with all type ofparents.
and because all my services arevirtual, I have parents from all
over the world and.
You know, even when I speak toparents and they ask me for
recommendation, it always startwith a conversation because
everyone has a differentlifestyle, D, different
(15:58):
parenting style,
Paul (15:59):
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (16:00):
apartment versus house, you know, if they live in
the suburb in the city.
So it's just different for eachone of us.
And also every kid is differentand unique, so.
When I talk to parents, I tellthem, this is what I going to
recommend, but you know yourchild the best.
So if it works for you and yourchild, tell me, great.
(16:23):
But if not, then we can find analternative and that's how I,
you know, make sure that weaddress every child.
Paul (16:30):
So then I know from.
My own personal experience isthat there's a lot of advice and
misinformation out there aroundinfant sleep and that will also
vary geographically betweencountries and regions and
cultures.
What are some of the biggest oreven just one of the biggest
myths that, that you'd like todebunk today?
(16:50):
If somebody's watching alongthat, that you come across all
the time, that's just not true.
Shani Avidar (16:55):
So first of all, I think pediatricians and also
social media create theexpectation and illusion that
your child should be sleepingthrough the night when they are
four months.
And in reality, most babieswould sleep through the night
around the nine months mark, butthat doesn't mean they would
wake up every hour, every 30minutes.
It means that if they wake upevery hour or twice a night,
(17:17):
then that's normal.
But when you see on social mediathat, oh, my child has been
sleeping through the night when,since they are four months, then
you start doubting yourself as aparent and you think that you're
doing something wrong.
And I really don't like thatbecause that's not reality.
And I wish the education wasbetter at the prenatal stage
(17:39):
because then parents would'veknown what to expect basically.
Paul (18:19):
So I'm guessing you are a big fan of, reaching people
before they're desperate.
Right?
Getting to them to the pointwhere we're planning on having a
baby.
But how often does that happen?
Is it more often that they cometo you when they're desperate, I
guess.
Shani Avidar (18:32):
I think, like I always say, my ideal client
would come to me when they'repregnant just to prepare, but in
reality, it mainly happensaround the three, four months
mark because parents experienceit.
But I wish it would be theopposite because.
And I always say give the momthe gift of sleep.
(18:54):
So every baby shower, everybreak just give her a gift card
to sleep coaching instead of aonesie.
Because everyone can buymaterial stuff, but not everyone
would either.
Some parents don't even knowthat sleep coaching exists and
some are even ashamed to reachout and get help.
And I am someone that if I don'tknow something.
(19:17):
out and I look for it, or I domy research and I learn how to
solve a problem.
I don't just stay in a statethat I am not or cannot handle.
Paul (19:27):
I, I think we're aligned there, but I think you raised a
really great point is thatpeople do feel ashamed for
having to ask for help, but whenwe do ask for help, there's also
an expectation that somebodyelse will be able to tell us the
answer and actually.
Shani Avidar (19:43):
Yeah.
Paul (19:44):
Nine times outta 10.
It's called sleep coaching for areason, right?
Because you've got the answer inhere.
You know your child, you knowyou, you know your environment.
And it's the same with medicalside of things as well.
Quite often a doctor can't giveyou the answer that you would
love them to be able to giveyou, and that's a really tough
thing to come to terms with,especially as a first time
(20:04):
parent that actually.
Somebody isn't gonna come alongand solve this problem for me.
And we need to work this outourselves and listen to all the
information that's been given tous and choose what path's right
for us.
Is that sort of like, so you'vementioned the almost a shame
from parents, but do you findthat they are exhausted not just
by the sleep deprivation, but byall the conflicting advice and.
(20:27):
And mixture of support that'sout there as well.
Shani Avidar (20:31):
Yeah.
I think also there is a lot ofmixed opinions.
also, you know, formula versusbreastfeeding.
There's a lot of pressure and toadd sleep deprivation to it,
you're just overwhelmed andexhausted.
Paul (20:44):
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (20:45):
not everyone has the personality to say, I don't
want advice.
Let me figure out what works forme and my family.
And sometimes it just backtracksyou because you.
You're overwhelmed, you're sleepdeprived, and instead of
reaching out for help, you'rejust staying the state of that
(21:06):
you're at or the situation thatyou're in.
And it's just hard.
Paul (21:10):
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (21:11):
you know you are a new parent.
You don't know.
just parenting doesn't come witha guide.
Paul (21:17):
No.
No, it absolutely doesn't.
And I think as well wediscovered that both times we
had tongue tie to deal with forour children, right?
And that, again, verycontroversial, especially here
in the uk Absolutely, verycontroversial.
Whilst, whilst some people arehappy that it exists and I don't
understand how something that'sscientifically proven can exist
(21:38):
or not exist.
It's almost seen as a, well, youknow, 95% of children don't need
anything to support them withthat.
And we had successful Tongue Tieoperation with our second and
the difference that it made withhim as he grew up.
First one we had the operation,but it reattached we hadn't
realised so, but with, by then,we'd given up on breastfeeding
(22:00):
and moved on.
But as they grew older, thereare other issues that can come,
kind of come from the back ofthat.
Happily, nothing dramatic, butwe got it much more right the
second time and I still had tofight tooth and nail And I think
that is in itself is tiring aswell, is all the fights that you
have to have with people to getwhat's best for your children or
yourself.
(22:20):
It's like,
Shani Avidar (22:21):
and especially when you are not, when you're a
new parent and you don't evenknow that what you're fighting
for is worthwhile
Paul (22:28):
yeah,
Shani Avidar (22:29):
you don't
Paul (22:29):
and you're being told,
Shani Avidar (22:30):
thing.
Paul (22:30):
are just a first time parent or you're just an anxious
first time parent.
That really winds me up becausethose people need help.
You shouldn't be dismissingpeople and belittling them
because they're first timeparents.
It really, it's reallyfrustrating for me.
Shani Avidar (22:44):
And in those situations, like I feel like
also moms that were planning onbreastfeeding, they had a plan
in their head and then somethinglike that happens and they're
not able to breastfeed, thenthey feel shame about it or,
Paul (22:59):
Guilt.
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (23:00):
basically.
And I tell my clients it's okayto have a plan, but it's okay to
change your plan because ifsomething happens, we move
forward, we find anothersolution.
And it's okay.
It's just a matter of if youcan't breastfeed, let's find the
right formula.
Because there are so manyformulas in the market there are
(23:21):
really bad for your child.
And unfortunately in the UnitedStates, most of them are in
Europe.
They're actually very good.
But let's find a good option foryou.
And that's it.
Nothing major happened
Paul (23:35):
Yeah.
So talk to me then about sleeptraining because I, you know, I
know from my own kind ofresearch into things that it's
got a con like tongue tie.
It's got some controversialsides to it, and.
Not everybody sees eye to eyearound it, but what is sleep
train?
If somebody out there has neverheard of it what does it entail?
What does it mean?
Shani Avidar (23:54):
So there are different sleep training
methods, and some include thechair method, the Ferber method,
and they involve leavingbasically your child in their
crib until they to self-soothethemself and fall asleep.
But we've seen in research is.
your child basically learns thatyou are not coming when they cry
(24:17):
for a long period of times.
But on the baby-led sleepapproach that I follow, we teach
your child that, yeah, you arecoming and you're not gonna
leave your child to sleep for along period of times in their
crib, but there will be tearsbecause as adults, when we get,
when we don't get what we want,we cry.
So as kids.
(24:38):
I talk to parents about settingboundaries around sleep.
If you want to co-sleep, great,I'll support you on that.
But if you want to share a roomor not share a room with your
child, we'll work on that.
And most important is that youget the sleep that you need and
so is your child.
So we start from day one withthe words that we use.
(25:02):
We set routines, we setschedules.
Nutrition plays a big role, sowe choose the right formula, or
if you're breastfeeding, great,just make sure that your child
is not allergic to any of thefood that you're eating.
And at six months we ch wechoose the, a lot of protein to
make sure your child gets a lotof protein around bedtime.
(25:24):
we move from there.
But we basically choose rightcomponents of sleep we teach
them to your child.
Paul (25:32):
So then bearing in mind that when your clients generally
come to you, they're at thatpoint of I need.
Somebody to just wave a magicwand and do something to help
me.
How do they often find you?
Is it through referrals and wordof mouth?
Is it the website?
Is it a mixture?
Shani Avidar (25:52):
A lot of word of mouth.
I work with a lot ofpediatricians.
a lot of physical therapiststhat work with women postpartum.
and you know, it's like, whenyou choose your therapist you
have to speak to a few to seewho you vibe with.
So there are many sleep coachesout there.
(26:12):
Many follow different sleeptraining methods, and you need
to speak to a few to see who youvibe with and who, whose
approach is similar to yourparenting style.
And so that's when I a client.
I always start with a 15 minutecomplimentary sleep assessment
call because I wanna tell themabout myself, my approach.
(26:35):
I wanna hear what they'redealing with, but I also want to
manage expectation and say thatthe fact that you just contacted
a sleep coach doesn't mean thatyour child will be sleeping
through the night today.
It takes time and effort on yourside.
And because sleep changes somuch in the first to 18 months,
(26:56):
because at that point wetransition to a one nap schedule
you need to be able to changethe sleep schedule every month.
You need to understand what yourchild is going through so you
can support them.
Paul (27:09):
What's one thing that you would like to leave our audience
with?
If there's somebody out theretoday who's watching this and
thinking, yeah, I shouldprobably contact a sleep coach,
what's one thing that you cantell them today that will make
not an immediate impact, butit'll be one of the biggest
changes they can make for theirown sanity.
Shani Avidar (27:28):
Well, first of all, make sure you have routines
and schedules in place and just,you know, educate yourself.
I have even a package on mywebsite that I sit with family
and it's called Ask Me Anything,and you get an one hour session
and you asked me all thequestions that you have and your
(27:50):
doubts and.
We just talk about it.
Even if you don't wanna hire meas a sleep coach, you just sit
down with me and we talk abouteverything you wanna talk about.
It just comes down to educationand to get the education that
you need to help you and yourbaby sleep.
Paul (28:08):
I think that's fantastic.
I can only imagine that.
Ironically on the back ofhelping other people with their
sleep problems.
You sleep pretty well at nightknowing you've done a good thing
too.
Right.
I think that's a lovely story.
Shani Avidar (28:17):
being able to be pregnant for, you know, three
years.
And that's why I can say I wantmore kids because we sleep.
My kids go to sleep at sevenFifteen they wake up at seven
thirty we have, you know, we canhave our own time.
And I think that's the mostimportant.
I always tell my husband, weneed to stay married at the end
(28:38):
of this.
And it's nice that we're goodparents, but we have make, have
to make sure that ourrelationships is also supported.
Paul (28:46):
I couldn't agree more, and I think as I've said throughout
the episode, you know it's okayto not know the answers.
It's okay to need help.
It's okay to be tired.
It's okay to feel like.
You don't need to feel likeyou're a bad parent.
If you are regretting having ababy right now because you're
not sleeping like that'snatural.
Doesn't mean you're a badparent.
(29:08):
'Cause we went through all ofthat, right?
Like it's tough.
It is mentally and physicallyone of the hardest things you
will ever do in your life.
And nothing, not, I don't carehow much education you have
about it.
Still nothing prepares you forthat.
Almost like the first six weeksare relatively easy, right?
Like the first six weeks aren'ttoo bad.
You kind of lulled into a falsesense of security.
(29:30):
Like
Shani Avidar (29:31):
is sleep in.
Paul (29:32):
I remember running around the house going, right?
Well, when the health visitcomes, my house is gonna be
absolutely spotless.
'cause I'm the guy, mom, youknow, I'm a great parent.
My house is gonna be spotless.
She came back after a year andthe house was a tip.
I'm like, yeah, I don't careanymore.
I sleep.
Shani Avidar (29:48):
Yeah.
Paul (29:49):
Like, you know, my, my son goes to bed, we go to bed.
The housework gets done when heis awake.
Like if it gets done,
Shani Avidar (29:57):
exactly.
Paul (29:58):
you know, it's brutal.
What do you think is the futurefor parenting and sleep support?
What would you like to see?
You know, we've got all thisamazing technology that we've
got now.
What's next?
Shani Avidar (30:07):
I, I actually think, you know, AI is
everywhere.
But for some things you reallyneed the personal touch.
And when parents come to me,it's.
like therapy.
And I don't know if I ever wouldwant to have a therapy with a,
with ai, with a machine, becauseI need someone that knows how to
(30:31):
deal with something in reallife.
I wish that sleep coaching wasmore common, that people
wouldn't feel ashamed aroundasking help.
the fact that your child is notsleeping does not make you a bad
parent.
Paul (30:45):
I love it.
And Shani, I'm gonna make sureall your contact details are in
the show links.
So if anybody's watching thisand you've got questions, you're
curious, you want to know alittle bit more.
You'll be able to contact Shaniin the details below, and I
would absolutely encourage youto, if there's any doubt in your
mind as to whether you need thissort of support, even if it's
not as you said, even if it'snot you, if it's something else,
(31:06):
reach out.
Be brave and ask thosequestions.
Have that courage because youwill thank yourself down the
line.
Shani, I've thoroughly, as Ithought I would, I've thoroughly
enjoyed this conversation andit's nice to be able to feel
like I've been a little bit.
Little small part of helpingpeople into today's episode.
Is there anything you'd like toleave the audience with before
we close the episode down?
Shani Avidar (31:26):
No, just in.
Encouraging everyone to contactme or anyone else that can help
them because Sleepy is not aprivilege.
It's a necessity.
Paul (31:35):
I love that.
I love that phrase.
Well, thank you very much foryour time today Shani, and thank
you everyone at home forwatching along or listening
depending on where you are.
And if you've enjoyed theepisode, please do remember,
jump on Spotify, jump on Apple,leave us a review.
It means the world to us, and ithelps us get out to many more
people.
So thank you very much for yourtime, and I'll see you next week
(31:56):
on MarketPulse Pros andPioneers.
Are you a parent struggling with sleepless nights
and exhausted days?
Shani Avidar shares today howparents can create healthy sleep
habits without the stress, pluswhy she left a corporate career
to follow her passion.
Shani is a certified pediatricsleep coach, a lactation
(00:21):
consultant and founder of MyLittle Dreamer, where she helps
exhausted parents navigate thechallenges of infant and toddler
sleep.
Her journey into sleep coachingwasn't just professional, it was
also personal.
After struggling with sleepdeprivation while raising her
three children back to back, shedove deep into research and
(00:41):
training.
Discovering the baby-led sleepapproach, which transformed her
parenting and ultimately led toa career shift.
Before launching my LittleDreamer, Shani spent nearly two
decades in high level roles inthe financial sector, including
regulatory compliance and datagovernance.
And now she applies heranalytical problem solving
skills to a much differentchallenge, helping families get
(01:04):
the sleep they desperately need.
Shani, welcome to the show.
Lovely to have you along.
Shani Avidar (01:09):
Thanks for having me.
Paul (01:11):
You'll have noticed that there's a lot of passion went
into that bio from my behalf,because as I read the words, I
know I've lived that life.
I, my, my eldest turns out he'snow on the path for ADHD, which
meant.
We didn't know it at the time,but a lot of the tips and tricks
that we got told about how toget kids to sleep and how to
help them sleep and all the restof it were kind of irrelevant as
(01:34):
he grew up.
And he was a little bit older.
And I remember advising one ofmy friends who was having a baby
probably about a year after we'dhad our first, and I just kind
of said, Matt, however tired isthe most tired you've ever felt
in your life, could you picturethat in your head right now?
And he said, yeah.
I said, right.
I want you to multiply that by30 and then apply that to every
(01:55):
single day for the next sixmonths.
'cause that's what it's like Isays, it's parenting is the most
am amazing experience in theworld, but my God, it's tiring,
especially in those early days.
So that's my personal backgroundon this.
I've got two lovely boys.
I love them to bits and I'm in amuch better place now than I
was, but I'm looking forward toone, diving into the journey
(02:17):
that you've been on to where youare now.
And two, sharing a bit of youradvice so that perhaps we can
get some other people starteddown that same path.
So lovely to have you along.
thank
Shani Avidar (02:26):
You and I totally agree with you.
I wish.
We all got
Paul (02:29):
I.
Shani Avidar (02:29):
More education during the prenatal stage.
And from my experience when Iwas pregnant with my first, I
went to all the classes that thehospital had, and my husband and
I were sitting there.
We didn't have any experiencein.
We learned how to change diapersand CPR and all that, but no one
talked to us about sleep and wewere working full time.
(02:53):
And for me, the expectation wasto finish maternity leave and
come back to the office andperform as before.
And we were exhausted.
The baby arrived.
We didn't know how to parent andwe were expected to leave the
hospital, go home and know whatto do.
And in reality, no one knowswhat to do.
And it's the hardest job ever.
(03:16):
And especially when you're sleepdeprived, you, you're exhausted
and you're expected to take careof a newborn.
I.
so like you mentioned, I spentalmost 20 years in the financial
industry and because I'm a typeA personality, I'm a planner, I
started researching sleepbecause I knew what I was up
(03:36):
against and I wanted to prepare.
And I read about all the sleeptraining methods out there, and
there was no way I would let mychild cry out in their crib or
just.
You know, following a chart likethe Ferber method and I came
across the Baby-Led SleepApproach that basically talks
(03:57):
about the bond between parentsand their children, and we learn
how to schedule and setroutines.
But we also know that nutritionplays a big part of sleep, and
psychology has a big role.
So the words that we use withour kids, even when they're a
few days old, they matter.
(04:18):
And the earliest you start withyour child and teach them the
sleep of skill, that skill ofsleep, then it's easier.
And that's how you don'texperience the challenges that
come later on, like the ninemonths separation anxiety and
other, you know, teethingdifficulties So basically you
(04:40):
learn what's the reason yourchild might be crying You are
better equipped to, to deal withthat.
so for me personally, I wasliterally pregnant for three
years because I have three boysand they're one year apart each.
And I wanted them to sleep, butI needed them to sleep.
And thankfully I learned and Igot certified and I was starting
(05:05):
my company parallel to bankingwhere I was at the time.
And I realised that, you know,it's really comes down to lack
of education.
And I started talking to parentsand educating them and growing
my company until I realisedthere are so many parents out
there that could use myservices.
And I left the corporate worldand I just focused on my
(05:29):
business.
And I've been doing it for a fewyears now, I'm happy to see
results.
I'm happy when parents come tome and they are so sleep
deprived.
and after a few days of workingwith me, they can get a good
night's sleep or they decide toget pregnant again because
they're finally sleeping.
Paul (05:48):
Well, let's rewind back to that banking career then.
So, like, first of all, I'mgonna, I'm gonna call out the
white elephant in the room.
There aren't many women whomanage to make it to the top of
the banking industry.
We know this, right?
It's a heavily male dominatedenvironment.
So I imagine you've workedincredibly hard to get there.
Why did you choose complianceand risk management?
(06:10):
What was it about compliance andrisk that attracted you in the
first place?
Shani Avidar (06:13):
So I am, I'm a CPA Ever since I remember I wanted
to be a CFO and I started mycareer Ernst and Young, one of
the big four accounting firms.
And then I moved into a, theprivate sector.
I worked in another partaccounting firm.
I remember once I became acontroller at a property
(06:35):
management company, I realisedthat this is so boring and there
no way I would want to spend therest of my career doing that.
And I was drawn to law and Iwanted something.
That kind of like combines lawand accounting and I didn't know
what it was, but I met one ofthe CEOs of a big bank and he
(07:00):
asked me, what do you thinkabout compliance?
And I said, I have no idea whatthat is, but you know, tell me
about it.
And he said, well, let.
Let's start by having you jointhe legal department and
starting the compliancedepartment in our bank.
And I did that for a while inNew York City.
(07:20):
And then after 10 years I tomoved to Miami because weather
was so much better here, and Ifound a position of the largest,
and advisory firms and I joinedtheir team and my clients were
financial institutions all overthe world.
(07:40):
but I was traveling a lot and Ithen decided to just find a
position within a local bank.
It's an international bank and Iended up starting the compliance
department there and then theregulatory compliance and then
the data governance until Imanaged a team.
In Spain, Latin America, and theUS when Spanish is not my first
(08:03):
language, and I did get to thetop, but once I became a mom and
just realised first of all, Iwanted to spend more time with
my kids.
I, I never thought I would be afounder of a company.
That's not something I everenvisioned for myself.
I.
But you know, life takes you andif you're open to it, then just
(08:27):
you know, take the risk.
And one day when after I foundedmy company and I told my
husband, listen, I think passionis with the company that I own
and not so much with thecorporate that I belong to.
And he said, life is too shortto be unhappy.
So just do whatever you feelthat is good for you.
(08:47):
And.
I did and I'm lucky to have, youknow, a supporting husband.
But it's been great since then.
Paul (08:54):
I think it's an incredibly powerful story and one that I
wish more people couldexperience for themselves
because.
I speak to people who are stuckand I mean, stuck in corporate
roles, not because they'relimited by their skillset or
their like their ambition even,or their intelligence, but
because they don't even realisethat there's another world out
(09:16):
there and that starting your owncompany is something that
happens to other people.
It's something that happens toextremely gifted and talented
people, and I'm not one of thosepeople.
I don't have that skillset.
I couldn't do that.
I could never run my ownbusiness exactly as you've said.
And yet I see it time and timeagain.
When you are thrown into thefire and you decide to make that
(09:38):
decision, for whatever reason,we survive, we manage, we make
it work, and we are successful.
And before you know it, you'vekind of transformed into a
person that can't understand.
How we never knew this waspossible in the first place
because I'd be willing to betfor the first, you know, that 20
year career that you were in, infinance, in banking, in
compliance, it probably wasn'teven a thought that crossed your
(10:01):
mind that you'd ever start yourown business, let alone be
scared of it.
Like why would
Shani Avidar (10:05):
yeah.
Paul (10:06):
I mean, it's good money, it's secure, it's got future,
it's got potential.
I've got a career and thenchildren change so much about
us.
Right.
Okay.
Shani Avidar (10:15):
Yeah, and I think the pandemic kinda like
contributed to it At some pointeveryone was sure we were gonna
work remote forever, and then itchanged too.
But I think people startedthinking.
About prioritizing themselves,prioritizing their passions, and
life is too short to justsomething that you're not happy
(10:39):
about or you're not comfortablewith.
Paul (10:41):
Yep.
I completely agree.
first of all, you had threechildren back to back.
I can't, and I could never makethat decision on purpose or act
like I would.
I'd be done.
Like we've got two and I said, Ialways said I wanted three kids.
So we had the first one and Ilove him to bits, and he's now
(11:02):
almost eight.
We had the second one we waitedfor COVID because we wanted to
get married before we had him.
So we got married, then we hadhim and my wife and I just
looked at each other.
It was a, in fairness, it was apretty traumatic birth.
It was an emergency cesareansection.
It was pretty touch and go.
At one point we just looked ateach other and I just went, now
we're done.
(11:22):
That's it.
I don't want to risk you byhaving another birth.
'cause both births had somecomplications.
The second one tipped me overthe edge and I just said, you
know what, I'm, I don't want to,I don't wanna risk anything
more.
We don't need a third.
We're quite happy as we are, andwe had that, but we're almost a
little bit, we plan to have themcloser together.
So three though, back to back, Ican't imagine having a
(11:45):
3-year-old, a 2-year-old and anewborn at the same time.
What was that like, Shani?
Shani Avidar (11:50):
And it was I think because I had the skillset and
I.
My per personality is very much,I'm a type A, I need a plan.
I just know my schedule.
But I also think, and when Ispeak to my clients, I also tell
them, you need to prioritiseyourself because if you don't,
you cannot take care of anyoneelse.
(12:13):
I managed, I was very strict onschedule.
I was very strict with ourroutines.
My husband travels 98% of thetime, so it was.
Me needing to make sure that thehousehold was on schedules.
And you know, my kids are stilllittle.
They are three, four, and fiveeven when we travel.
(12:34):
And we just recently got backfrom Israel and with jet lag,
everything, they were sleepingamazing from day one that we got
there.
And when we got back there wasno jet lag or anything.
So it's really up to you as theparent to teach your child how
to become a good sleeper.
And if you do, then you takecare of yourself.
(12:57):
Because for me, it was all aboutknowing how my day is gonna look
like.
If I knew that I could work outin the morning at the certain
time, that would make me happy,because if I don't work out, I
don't have patience.
So for me, that is a must.
But I knew also when I was gonnatake a shower, when I was gonna
have lunch.
It's just setting, you know,expectations and creating
(13:20):
routines and schedules.
Paul (13:21):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna compare this to a SaaS business,
right?
When I speak to a SaaS businessowner, there's two camps quite
often as those that have had agreat idea and build something
to solve a problem, but don'treally have the fundamental
experience within that industryto make it work.
And they have to bring inexperts to help them.
And it never, in my opinion,never quite is the same as
(13:43):
somebody who's been on the otherside of the desk and thought, do
you know what?
I need to create something thatsolves this problem for people
like me.
I know what the pain is, I'mgonna go and fix it.
And those businesses always seemto do really well.
I've worked in one of those, soI know firsthand the difference
that can make.
And you've done the same thing,right?
So you went through thatchallenging time, that sleep
(14:04):
deprivation and all the problemsthat went with that, and you've
now built your own business tosolve that problem for others.
What does that feel like whenyou are helping other parents
who, you know exactly theemotions that they must be
feeling, the tiredness'causebecause it's hard to describe to
somebody who's never beenthrough it, right?
Like you, you can never quitehelp them understand just how
(14:27):
hard and tough that can be.
What's it like being the personthat helps them change that?
Shani Avidar (14:32):
I think the word is satisfaction because I know.
Not only they get more sleep,but imagine when you're tired,
how often you tend to fight withyour spouse because you're
tired.
I'm looking at it as like from apoint of, I'm contributing to
the all, to the wellbeing of theentire family because you know,
(14:55):
they get sleep.
They don't fight as theywould've if they didn't come to
me, and it's just creating ahappy family versus.
Parents that are in a survivalmode.
Paul (15:07):
And do you find that a lot of your clients now are similar
people to where you were?
Is that something that you focuson or is it, I mean, am I off
the mark there?
Shani Avidar (15:16):
I think I have a mix.
So I have moms that come to meand they're like, they have
their corporate job, they areplanners.
They need to actually preparefor going back to the office,
and I can.
relate to that.
And I have some moms that cometo me and they are stay at home
moms, but they have multiplekids.
They need to make sure that theyget sleep, that their children
(15:38):
get the rest that they need.
And so I work with all type ofparents.
and because all my services arevirtual, I have parents from all
over the world and.
You know, even when I speak toparents and they ask me for
recommendation, it always startwith a conversation because
everyone has a differentlifestyle, D, different
(15:58):
parenting style,
Paul (15:59):
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (16:00):
apartment versus house, you know, if they live in
the suburb in the city.
So it's just different for eachone of us.
And also every kid is differentand unique, so.
When I talk to parents, I tellthem, this is what I going to
recommend, but you know yourchild the best.
So if it works for you and yourchild, tell me, great.
(16:23):
But if not, then we can find analternative and that's how I,
you know, make sure that weaddress every child.
Paul (16:30):
So then I know from.
My own personal experience isthat there's a lot of advice and
misinformation out there aroundinfant sleep and that will also
vary geographically betweencountries and regions and
cultures.
What are some of the biggest oreven just one of the biggest
myths that, that you'd like todebunk today?
(16:50):
If somebody's watching alongthat, that you come across all
the time, that's just not true.
Shani Avidar (16:55):
So first of all, I think pediatricians and also
social media create theexpectation and illusion that
your child should be sleepingthrough the night when they are
four months.
And in reality, most babieswould sleep through the night
around the nine months mark, butthat doesn't mean they would
wake up every hour, every 30minutes.
It means that if they wake upevery hour or twice a night,
(17:17):
then that's normal.
But when you see on social mediathat, oh, my child has been
sleeping through the night when,since they are four months, then
you start doubting yourself as aparent and you think that you're
doing something wrong.
And I really don't like thatbecause that's not reality.
And I wish the education wasbetter at the prenatal stage
(17:39):
because then parents would'veknown what to expect basically.
Paul (18:19):
So I'm guessing you are a big fan of, reaching people
before they're desperate.
Right?
Getting to them to the pointwhere we're planning on having a
baby.
But how often does that happen?
Is it more often that they cometo you when they're desperate, I
guess.
Shani Avidar (18:32):
I think, like I always say, my ideal client
would come to me when they'repregnant just to prepare, but in
reality, it mainly happensaround the three, four months
mark because parents experienceit.
But I wish it would be theopposite because.
And I always say give the momthe gift of sleep.
(18:54):
So every baby shower, everybreak just give her a gift card
to sleep coaching instead of aonesie.
Because everyone can buymaterial stuff, but not everyone
would either.
Some parents don't even knowthat sleep coaching exists and
some are even ashamed to reachout and get help.
And I am someone that if I don'tknow something.
(19:17):
out and I look for it, or I domy research and I learn how to
solve a problem.
I don't just stay in a statethat I am not or cannot handle.
Paul (19:27):
I, I think we're aligned there, but I think you raised a
really great point is thatpeople do feel ashamed for
having to ask for help, but whenwe do ask for help, there's also
an expectation that somebodyelse will be able to tell us the
answer and actually.
Shani Avidar (19:43):
Yeah.
Paul (19:44):
Nine times outta 10.
It's called sleep coaching for areason, right?
Because you've got the answer inhere.
You know your child, you knowyou, you know your environment.
And it's the same with medicalside of things as well.
Quite often a doctor can't giveyou the answer that you would
love them to be able to giveyou, and that's a really tough
thing to come to terms with,especially as a first time
(20:04):
parent that actually.
Somebody isn't gonna come alongand solve this problem for me.
And we need to work this outourselves and listen to all the
information that's been given tous and choose what path's right
for us.
Is that sort of like, so you'vementioned the almost a shame
from parents, but do you findthat they are exhausted not just
by the sleep deprivation, but byall the conflicting advice and.
(20:27):
And mixture of support that'sout there as well.
Shani Avidar (20:31):
Yeah.
I think also there is a lot ofmixed opinions.
also, you know, formula versusbreastfeeding.
There's a lot of pressure and toadd sleep deprivation to it,
you're just overwhelmed andexhausted.
Paul (20:44):
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (20:45):
not everyone has the personality to say, I don't
want advice.
Let me figure out what works forme and my family.
And sometimes it just backtracksyou because you.
You're overwhelmed, you're sleepdeprived, and instead of
reaching out for help, you'rejust staying the state of that
(21:06):
you're at or the situation thatyou're in.
And it's just hard.
Paul (21:10):
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (21:11):
you know you are a new parent.
You don't know.
just parenting doesn't come witha guide.
Paul (21:17):
No.
No, it absolutely doesn't.
And I think as well wediscovered that both times we
had tongue tie to deal with forour children, right?
And that, again, verycontroversial, especially here
in the uk Absolutely, verycontroversial.
Whilst, whilst some people arehappy that it exists and I don't
understand how something that'sscientifically proven can exist
(21:38):
or not exist.
It's almost seen as a, well, youknow, 95% of children don't need
anything to support them withthat.
And we had successful Tongue Tieoperation with our second and
the difference that it made withhim as he grew up.
First one we had the operation,but it reattached we hadn't
realised so, but with, by then,we'd given up on breastfeeding
(22:00):
and moved on.
But as they grew older, thereare other issues that can come,
kind of come from the back ofthat.
Happily, nothing dramatic, butwe got it much more right the
second time and I still had tofight tooth and nail And I think
that is in itself is tiring aswell, is all the fights that you
have to have with people to getwhat's best for your children or
yourself.
(22:20):
It's like,
Shani Avidar (22:21):
and especially when you are not, when you're a
new parent and you don't evenknow that what you're fighting
for is worthwhile
Paul (22:28):
yeah,
Shani Avidar (22:29):
you don't
Paul (22:29):
and you're being told,
Shani Avidar (22:30):
thing.
Paul (22:30):
are just a first time parent or you're just an anxious
first time parent.
That really winds me up becausethose people need help.
You shouldn't be dismissingpeople and belittling them
because they're first timeparents.
It really, it's reallyfrustrating for me.
Shani Avidar (22:44):
And in those situations, like I feel like
also moms that were planning onbreastfeeding, they had a plan
in their head and then somethinglike that happens and they're
not able to breastfeed, thenthey feel shame about it or,
Paul (22:59):
Guilt.
Yeah.
Shani Avidar (23:00):
basically.
And I tell my clients it's okayto have a plan, but it's okay to
change your plan because ifsomething happens, we move
forward, we find anothersolution.
And it's okay.
It's just a matter of if youcan't breastfeed, let's find the
right formula.
Because there are so manyformulas in the market there are
(23:21):
really bad for your child.
And unfortunately in the UnitedStates, most of them are in
Europe.
They're actually very good.
But let's find a good option foryou.
And that's it.
Nothing major happened
Paul (23:35):
Yeah.
So talk to me then about sleeptraining because I, you know, I
know from my own kind ofresearch into things that it's
got a con like tongue tie.
It's got some controversialsides to it, and.
Not everybody sees eye to eyearound it, but what is sleep
train?
If somebody out there has neverheard of it what does it entail?
What does it mean?
Shani Avidar (23:54):
So there are different sleep training
methods, and some include thechair method, the Ferber method,
and they involve leavingbasically your child in their
crib until they to self-soothethemself and fall asleep.
But we've seen in research is.
your child basically learns thatyou are not coming when they cry
(24:17):
for a long period of times.
But on the baby-led sleepapproach that I follow, we teach
your child that, yeah, you arecoming and you're not gonna
leave your child to sleep for along period of times in their
crib, but there will be tearsbecause as adults, when we get,
when we don't get what we want,we cry.
So as kids.
(24:38):
I talk to parents about settingboundaries around sleep.
If you want to co-sleep, great,I'll support you on that.
But if you want to share a roomor not share a room with your
child, we'll work on that.
And most important is that youget the sleep that you need and
so is your child.
So we start from day one withthe words that we use.
(25:02):
We set routines, we setschedules.
Nutrition plays a big role, sowe choose the right formula, or
if you're breastfeeding, great,just make sure that your child
is not allergic to any of thefood that you're eating.
And at six months we ch wechoose the, a lot of protein to
make sure your child gets a lotof protein around bedtime.
(25:24):
we move from there.
But we basically choose rightcomponents of sleep we teach
them to your child.
Paul (25:32):
So then bearing in mind that when your clients generally
come to you, they're at thatpoint of I need.
Somebody to just wave a magicwand and do something to help
me.
How do they often find you?
Is it through referrals and wordof mouth?
Is it the website?
Is it a mixture?
Shani Avidar (25:52):
A lot of word of mouth.
I work with a lot ofpediatricians.
a lot of physical therapiststhat work with women postpartum.
and you know, it's like, whenyou choose your therapist you
have to speak to a few to seewho you vibe with.
So there are many sleep coachesout there.
(26:12):
Many follow different sleeptraining methods, and you need
to speak to a few to see who youvibe with and who, whose
approach is similar to yourparenting style.
And so that's when I a client.
I always start with a 15 minutecomplimentary sleep assessment
call because I wanna tell themabout myself, my approach.
(26:35):
I wanna hear what they'redealing with, but I also want to
manage expectation and say thatthe fact that you just contacted
a sleep coach doesn't mean thatyour child will be sleeping
through the night today.
It takes time and effort on yourside.
And because sleep changes somuch in the first to 18 months,
(26:56):
because at that point wetransition to a one nap schedule
you need to be able to changethe sleep schedule every month.
You need to understand what yourchild is going through so you
can support them.
Paul (27:09):
What's one thing that you would like to leave our audience
with?
If there's somebody out theretoday who's watching this and
thinking, yeah, I shouldprobably contact a sleep coach,
what's one thing that you cantell them today that will make
not an immediate impact, butit'll be one of the biggest
changes they can make for theirown sanity.
Shani Avidar (27:28):
Well, first of all, make sure you have routines
and schedules in place and just,you know, educate yourself.
I have even a package on mywebsite that I sit with family
and it's called Ask Me Anything,and you get an one hour session
and you asked me all thequestions that you have and your
(27:50):
doubts and.
We just talk about it.
Even if you don't wanna hire meas a sleep coach, you just sit
down with me and we talk abouteverything you wanna talk about.
It just comes down to educationand to get the education that
you need to help you and yourbaby sleep.
Paul (28:08):
I think that's fantastic.
I can only imagine that.
Ironically on the back ofhelping other people with their
sleep problems.
You sleep pretty well at nightknowing you've done a good thing
too.
Right.
I think that's a lovely story.
Shani Avidar (28:17):
being able to be pregnant for, you know, three
years.
And that's why I can say I wantmore kids because we sleep.
My kids go to sleep at sevenFifteen they wake up at seven
thirty we have, you know, we canhave our own time.
And I think that's the mostimportant.
I always tell my husband, weneed to stay married at the end
(28:38):
of this.
And it's nice that we're goodparents, but we have make, have
to make sure that ourrelationships is also supported.
Paul (28:46):
I couldn't agree more, and I think as I've said throughout
the episode, you know it's okayto not know the answers.
It's okay to need help.
It's okay to be tired.
It's okay to feel like.
You don't need to feel likeyou're a bad parent.
If you are regretting having ababy right now because you're
not sleeping like that'snatural.
Doesn't mean you're a badparent.
(29:08):
'Cause we went through all ofthat, right?
Like it's tough.
It is mentally and physicallyone of the hardest things you
will ever do in your life.
And nothing, not, I don't carehow much education you have
about it.
Still nothing prepares you forthat.
Almost like the first six weeksare relatively easy, right?
Like the first six weeks aren'ttoo bad.
You kind of lulled into a falsesense of security.
(29:30):
Like
Shani Avidar (29:31):
is sleep in.
Paul (29:32):
I remember running around the house going, right?
Well, when the health visitcomes, my house is gonna be
absolutely spotless.
'cause I'm the guy, mom, youknow, I'm a great parent.
My house is gonna be spotless.
She came back after a year andthe house was a tip.
I'm like, yeah, I don't careanymore.
I sleep.
Shani Avidar (29:48):
Yeah.
Paul (29:49):
Like, you know, my, my son goes to bed, we go to bed.
The housework gets done when heis awake.
Like if it gets done,
Shani Avidar (29:57):
exactly.
Paul (29:58):
you know, it's brutal.
What do you think is the futurefor parenting and sleep support?
What would you like to see?
You know, we've got all thisamazing technology that we've
got now.
What's next?
Shani Avidar (30:07):
I, I actually think, you know, AI is
everywhere.
But for some things you reallyneed the personal touch.
And when parents come to me,it's.
like therapy.
And I don't know if I ever wouldwant to have a therapy with a,
with ai, with a machine, becauseI need someone that knows how to
(30:31):
deal with something in reallife.
I wish that sleep coaching wasmore common, that people
wouldn't feel ashamed aroundasking help.
the fact that your child is notsleeping does not make you a bad
parent.
Paul (30:45):
I love it.
And Shani, I'm gonna make sureall your contact details are in
the show links.
So if anybody's watching thisand you've got questions, you're
curious, you want to know alittle bit more.
You'll be able to contact Shaniin the details below, and I
would absolutely encourage youto, if there's any doubt in your
mind as to whether you need thissort of support, even if it's
not as you said, even if it'snot you, if it's something else,
(31:06):
reach out.
Be brave and ask thosequestions.
Have that courage because youwill thank yourself down the
line.
Shani, I've thoroughly, as Ithought I would, I've thoroughly
enjoyed this conversation andit's nice to be able to feel
like I've been a little bit.
Little small part of helpingpeople into today's episode.
Is there anything you'd like toleave the audience with before
we close the episode down?
Shani Avidar (31:26):
No, just in.
Encouraging everyone to contactme or anyone else that can help
them because Sleepy is not aprivilege.
It's a necessity.
Paul (31:35):
I love that.
I love that phrase.
Well, thank you very much foryour time today Shani, and thank
you everyone at home forwatching along or listening
depending on where you are.
And if you've enjoyed theepisode, please do remember,
jump on Spotify, jump on Apple,leave us a review.
It means the world to us, and ithelps us get out to many more
people.
So thank you very much for yourtime, and I'll see you next week
(31:56):
on MarketPulse Pros andPioneers.
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