July 2, 2025 • 28 mins
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Most people think sales is about persuasion, tactics, and closing deals. But what if the real secret to success was giving more than you take?
In this episode of MarketPulse: Pros and Pioneers, we sit down with Bob Burg, the bestselling co-author of The Go-Giver, to discuss how shifting from a sales-first mindset to a value-first mindset can transform your business, career, and life.
Bob shares:
📌 The biggest mistake most salespeople make—and how to avoid it
📌 Why AI can’t replace real human relationships
📌 The power of asking the right questions in business
📌 Why money is an echo of value—and how to create real impact
If you want to build trust, grow your influence, and increase sales without being "salesy", this episode is for you.
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Show Links:
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📖 Bob Burg’s Website: https://burg.com/
📚 The Go-Giver Book: https://thegogiver.com/
🔗 Connect with Bob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobburg/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
We've all heard that sales isabout closing deals, but what if
that's completely wrong?
In this episode, I sat down withBob Berg co-author of the Gore
Giver, a book that has sold overa million copies globally.
Not only that, but Bob is awhole of fame keynote speaker
and is known the world over forhis philosophy on networking.
(00:24):
I'm joined by Bob as he exploreshow the most successful people
in business don't just selltheir serve, build, trust, and
focus on creating value first.
If you want to win in businesswithout being pushy, you need to
hear this.
Paul (00:39):
Hello and welcome back to MarketPulse Pro and Pioneers,
where this week we have a verylimited special edition episode
this week.
It is my honor, to be honest,Bob to invite you along to the
episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, Bob Bergthank you for coming along
today, Bob.
Bob (00:57):
Thank you, Paul.
The honor is mine.
Thank you for having me.
Paul (00:59):
The interesting story is I was chatting on a post in
LinkedIn and somebody who,ironically the person who tagged
you, Bob, that isn't even in myinitial network either.
And they kindly tagged you intothe post and you'd reply to
something that I'd said, andyour name immediately sprung to
mind because I've had your namedrummed into me by various
people who are respecting thenetworking world.
(01:21):
And whilst I, I hadn't read yourbook, I knew of your book, and I
know that we're very muchaligned in how we go about
things.
And so I'm very pleased that youaccepted the cheeky invitation
via email to come along to thepodcast.
Really do appreciate your timetoday.
Bob (01:39):
My, my absolute pleasure.
Paul (01:40):
So ladies and gentlemen, in, in the audience if you don't
know Bob I'd suggest that youfamiliarize yourself to be
honest, because I align veryheavily and I know a lot of you
follow me because you also alignwith my vision on networking and
relationships.
And I'm happy to say that a lotof that.
Happens to be similar to verymuch based on the teachings that
(02:00):
Bob's given for the last 30years or so.
Bob is a Hall of Fame keynotespeaker, a bestselling author,
and also one of the world's leadinvoices on relationship
marketing and influence.
And his book, the Go Giver,which is co-authored by John
David Mann, as well, has soldover 1 million copies and
sparked a global movement aroundthe idea that shifting your
(02:23):
focus from getting to giving andproviding immense value to
others is the most effective wayto achieve business success.
So as I say, for the last 40years, Bob has coached
entrepreneurs, leaders, andsales professionals on how to
build high trust relationships.
Generate endless referrals andgrow their business by becoming
(02:44):
Go givers.
Bob also runs the Go GiverAcademy, which is offers his
training programs as well as hisdaily impact emails, and Bob
continues to teach thatinfluence, generosity, and value
creation are the real drivers ofsuccess.
Bob, I have to say, in an AIdriven world where everybody's
looking for an easy and cheapsilver bullet to make themselves
(03:05):
rich quick.
That by all is just sorefreshing to hear because it's
real.
It's real.
And I live it.
I know how much impact that has.
So yeah, did you start out withthe whole Go Giver journey, Bob?
Like what were your early daysthat led to that kind of Mormon
where you thought that this issomething that needs to be out
(03:29):
there in the world?
Bob (03:30):
Yeah.
It's a great question, Paul,because I was very.
To be raised by two wonderfulparents.
And so I think they instilledthat, That basic mindset in me.
And and that's, that's very muchan advantage.
And I know my co-author JohnDavid Mann, he said, his parents
were very much the same.
(03:50):
Really when I got into thebusiness world beginning in
sales, I saw people do things incertain ways that.
Sometimes you see people dothings according to the values
that you hold and they do reallywell, and other times they do
those things and they don't doas well.
And other people do thingscontrary to what you believe
they do really well.
And other times people doingthings contrary to what you
(04:11):
believe and they don't do well.
Okay?
However, in time you begin tosee patterns develop, right?
And patterns are those thingsthat are.
predictable.
Doesn't mean it's a hundredpercent of the time, but it's
predictably true.
And what I saw was this, thatthe most successful, the highest
(04:32):
money earning sustainably,successfully, high earning money
earning people and those whoalso had success in their
personal life, had goodfriendships and healthy
relationships, and felt goodabout themselves.
it Just seemed like these werethe people who were really just
focused on making other people'slives better.
(04:53):
Not in a self-sacrificial way,not in a way that hurt them no,
but in a way that always found away to add value to life and add
value to the lives of others.
To me, since that was congruentwith the values I was brought up
with, it made sense for me tofollow that.
A couple of years after I'd beenin sales, I.
I had done fairly well after aslow start because I had no
(05:18):
formal sales training.
But once I started, reading theright books and going to the
right seminars and listening tothe right, back then it was
audio tapes.
That's how long ago this was.
But, my sales went really well,but then I moved to another
company.
And I was selling a high ticketitem, and I was in a sa.
I started in a sales slump andwas not getting out of it.
(05:38):
I made a very youngsalesperson's mistake.
And that is, I panicked and Istarted really focusing on
myself and my sales as opposedto focusing on, I.
Pleasing the customer andhelping them with what they
needed.
And one day an older gentleman,he was about to retire.
He wasn't even in the salesdepartment.
I think he was an engineer orsomething.
(05:58):
He was one of these very quiettype of people who didn't say
much, but whenever he did, itwas always profound.
He said to me.
I think he saw, the potential inme and he said, Berg, can I
share something with you or canI give you some advice?
He said, I said, sure I could.
I could use it.
And he said, if you wanna make alot of money in sales, he said,
don't have making money as yourtarget.
(06:21):
Serving people.
Now when you hit the target, hecontinued, you'll get a reward
and that reward will come in theform of money and you can do
with that money, whatever youchoose.
But never forget, he said, themoney is simply the reward for
hitting the target.
It's not the target itself.
Your target is serving others.
(06:42):
And Paul, what that said to mewas that great salesmanship.
Is never about the salesperson.
great salesmanship is neverabout the product or service as
important as that is.
It's just never what it's about.
Great salesmanship is reallyabout the value you are adding
(07:03):
to another person's life, or wecould even say it's about
another person's life beingbetter.
Because you are part of it.
And I think when start from thatpremise, we're really nine steps
ahead of the game in a 10 stepgame.
Paul (07:20):
Question for you on that note then, do you think.
It is possible for somebody whohas previously come at their
sales game from a perspective oflooking to make revenue, and
it's all about the money andtransactional, and how can I
make my, make this sale biggerby just doing what I need to do?
What's necessary?
(07:41):
Is it possible for somebody toflip that mindset, to become a
Go Giver, to lead with valuefirst?
Bob (07:48):
It's possible, and I've seen a lot of people do it.
But here's what's important andhere's why I your question,
because it has to do withwhether this person is willing
to look at a different way ofdoing something.
I.
Because if this person doesn'tsee that, they're let's put it
this way.
We can never overcome a problem.
We don't realize we have.
(08:08):
So if this person, based ontheir mindset or their
upbringing, or what they've beentaught, which they have,
accepted as fact, accepted astruth, this is how you do it.
There's only one thing they mayjust say no, I'm not interested
in something like that.
But you've got the person whosays yeah, okay, I've made a
good living, I've made a goodcareer.
I'm always having to repeat myefforts.
(08:30):
don't have loyal advocates, Idon't feel necessarily good
about myself all the timebecause I have to say and do
things in a way that reallyisn't, so there a better way to
do this?
And okay, now they're in aposition where they can.
open to some new information ina different way of doing things.
And one of the nicest thingsJohn and I can hear is that
(08:54):
someone did exactly that.
I will say this, Paul, mostpeople who write us will say
they like most about the book isyou just told me.
What I want to be doing, this ishow I want to be doing, how I've
always done it.
It's just you've given me almostpermission to do things in a,
because human nature really sayswe wanna make a difference in
(09:14):
people's lives.
And as salespeople andentrepreneurs, we tend to do
that mainly through our productor service Now that doesn't mean
we can't do other things and beinvolved in other that, but most
of our time is working right.
At a sense.
So that's how we really bringvalue to the world and I think
most people, most entrepreneurs,salespeople, they wanna feel
good about what they're doing.
(09:34):
So I think a lot of peoplerelated to the book because of
that.
love when we hear from someonewho says, oh, I was always
taught blah, blah, blah, blah.
Since using the Go Giver way,we've boom, and that's just
always such a wonderful thing tohear.
Paul (09:49):
That's fascinating.
If I bring it back a little bitthen, so you'd obviously started
in that sales role.
You were starting to figurethings out in terms of adding
that value and putting that intopractice and believing in that
kind of service led relationshipbuilding.
What was the point where yourealized that you had something
that other people needed tohear?
Bob (10:10):
Oh gosh.
I think one of the biggestthings, and this came out of
necessity, was that in theprospecting process, I.
It can be so difficult to getpeople's interest in you.
And I always say when I firststarted in sales, I was on the
phone a lot, right?
And so one of the first things Ilearned and I came to realize
(10:33):
that I just discovered, right?
Is that nobody hung up the phoneon me they were talking.
If I'm talking about myself andmy product they are, and we're
number one, and we've beenaround since 19 and they don't
care.
They're right, wanna get off thephone, but if they're talking
about themselves, they areengaged.
(10:53):
You know what, not only was thattrue in person on the phone it
was, it's, it was true inperson.
Of course, today, we could sayon Zoom back then, 40 years ago
that wasn't the case.
But it was true in person sowhat I came up with was a way of
having certain questions thatyou could ask people engage them
(11:14):
to begin.
A healthy relationship.
One of the things I've said, Isaid this in my first book,
endless Referrals back in 94, Ithink it came out, but I was
saying this before that is thatwhat I call the golden Rule of
Sales?
The Golden Rule of Business, andthat is all things being equal
people will do business with andrefer business to those people
they know and trust.
(11:35):
The fastest, most powerful.
Most effective way to elicitthose feelings toward you is by
moving from an eye focus or mefocus to that.
Other focus looking to as Sam,one of the mentors and the
Go-Giver advised Joe the protegeto make your win all about the
(11:56):
other person's win.
And we can do that in an initialconversation with someone that
we just met somewhere in ourcommunity, at a, some function
or a an event or whatever ithappens to be.
When we asked that person howthey got started in their
business.
Because who asked them how theygot started there?
Most people are just talkingabout themselves.
They give their elevator speechand, but what if we said to
(12:18):
somebody, we have introducedourselves and we know they sell
copying machines and we sellwhatever we sell and we say
this.
How did you get started?
How did you get your start as anoffice products professional?
Now it's not a clever question,not a slick question.
It's very mundane.
How did you get started in,whatever Your people love
answering that question, right?
(12:40):
Because you're asking them totell you their story.
Nobody asked them to tell themtheir own family has never asked
them to tell them how they gottheir stuff, and here's you who
different from everyone elsethey've met.
You're another question, a nicefollow up question to that is.
Is asking them what they enjoymost about what they do, right?
(13:00):
So it might be why you must havehad some fascinating
experiences.
What do you enjoy most aboutyour work?
This is a question that flies inthe face of so much traditional
sales teaching, where we'retaught to immediately find their
pain, reach into their heart andtear it out so you can go, but
the relationship hasn't evenstarted yet.
They're not necessarily readyfor this.
(13:21):
And, when you ask thesequestions and then, I like to
ask what I call the one keyquestion that will distinguish
you from the rest after askingthese first couple of questions,
and that is.
How can I know if someone I'mspeaking with is a good
potential client for you?
So again, You're focusing onthem.
From the very beginning.
And you are creating thatenvironment for this person to
(13:44):
really feel good about you, towanna get to know you better, to
wanna be part of your life.
And these are how related.
And when I started doing thatand started teaching that to
people and people were saying,oh my gosh, this takes all the
pressure off me having to do.
And people were coming back andsaying, oh, this is, that's when
it said, okay, I think there'ssomething here.
(14:06):
That people are open to, thatpeople want learn about.
Paul (14:10):
Amazing.
Amazing.
It is.
It's,
Bob (14:12):
for that were my folks.
Just
Paul (14:13):
yeah.
Bob (14:14):
them do that
Paul (14:14):
And that, it's fascinating hearing you say that because
again, that's something I canalign with myself as well.
So it part of me wonders whetherthere is, a lot of stock in
that.
Certainly a good base point tojump off from.
I wonder then, so obviously atthis point you're a sales
person.
You are starting to see, peoplearound you are starting to take
an interest in what you've gotto see.
What was the point where youdecided that you were happy to
(14:37):
give a keynote speech?
Did that get thrust on you?
Did you ask for it?
How did that happen?
Bob (14:42):
So what happened was I was I was always attending seminars
when I could, to learn more.
And so now at this point, I'm asales manager of a company Zig
Ziglar was coming into town andanother guy was coming into town
opening for Zig.
And so I took my sales staff tothe, my sales team to this
event.
So at the end, I buy Zigs tapes,of course,'cause I always buy
whatever Zig would sell.
And then this other guy wasselling a tape tape.
(15:02):
Again, these are tapes.
I don't even know if youraudience members remember the,
the
Paul (15:07):
Oh I, think they do.
Bob (15:08):
And I went, I got that person's tapes.
They were really good.
Good information.
And at the back he had anadvertisement that said, if you
wanna make some extra moneylearning how to speak and sell
these tapes, call our office.
So I did and I went down thereand they showed me what I'd need
to do and I, I could buywholesale the, the tapes.
(15:29):
And then they taught me that theguy himself taught me how to
give 30 minute.
Presentations at all sorts ofcivic clubs, organizations,
groups, anywhere that anyonethat would have me for 25 to 30
minutes, how to do the little,sales commercial at the end,
holding up the tapes.
And, from what I understand, Iwas their leading salesperson
and doing that across thecountry part-time, but again,
(15:51):
'cause I listened, I did whatthey told me to do.
But it put the finer in me thatI like doing that.
And so then I, I began my ownspeaking practice.
My own speaking business.
A key for me was that I joinedthe national Speakers
Association, which is a bigassociation of professional
speakers.
And so I learned, which isfocused mainly on the business
(16:11):
of speaking.
'cause it's like anything else,it's a business like anything
else.
And I learned sort of the systemfor selling and marketing myself
as a speaker.
And I did that and, few years,it took a few years to build a
successful practice.
But eventually I did.
Paul (16:24):
So.
Coming to the end of that sideof things then.
And obviously you've beenkeynote speaking for such a long
time.
What's your, you must have afavorite story of somebody who's
been impacted by the messagethat you've delivered.
What's the biggest impact you'vedelivered to somebody else's
life?
Because that's, again, alignswith so much with what I do
because my why is helping peoplemake better decisions so they
(16:47):
can live a better life.
Where does that sit for you?
Bob (16:50):
And I think my why is really to be an encourager to,
to help people feel genuinelygood about themselves.
And so when I speak, really mygoal is to provide the how to
information such a way that theyhave the confidence.
To be able to go out andimmediately apply it.
(17:12):
So I would say that the feedbackI received from the talks is
along those lines, that theywere able to take the
information and boom, put it, I,sometimes I hear these sales
figures from people and I think,oh my gosh, they're doing a lot
better than I could done.
But I love, it's the nicetcompliment you could receive.
Paul (17:31):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it, but that begs aninteresting question, right?
A lot of businesses are drivenby the investors in the
business.
They, especially in the techworld and the SaaS businesses,
and the pressure, I see a lot ofsalespeople being put under, is
driven by those metrics that theinvestors wanna be able to
measure.
They wanna be able to know,right?
(17:51):
You've reached out to, I don'tknow, 10,000 leads this month
via email via phone calls, viaWhatsApp, via LinkedIn.
What would be your advice to asalesperson who wants to adopt
the Go Giver methodology andphilosophy, but they're feeling
the pressure from above toautomate things and Go in the
(18:12):
transactional route, if thatmakes sense.
Bob (18:15):
Yeah, my message is more to the leadership to understand
something.
That, nobody's gonna buy fromtheir salespeople because they
want them to be able to give,metrics.
And if you force yoursalespeople to do that, what
you're doing is you're reallycutting off your nose, spite
your face you're yourself.
(18:36):
Now remember.
Doing this selling as a Go-Giverdoesn't mean it, it takes longer
than doing it by, by just tryingto make the quick sale.
No, it actually Is faster.
The reason why is, again, ifyou're the type of person who's
just, you're just focused somuch on making the sale and
getting their money, people knowthat.
(18:56):
Not everybody, but most do, andthey're less, they're actually
more resistant to you when theyknow that you genuinely have
their wellbeing at heart.
Which comes from knowing how toask the right questions in the
sales conversation, how todiscover their needs, their
wants, their desires, right?
How to add the insights that aregonna help mitigate weaknesses
(19:17):
and help them to leveragestrengths and all these things.
Your sales are gonna come fasterbut when you put pressure on a
salesperson to have to accountfor every contact that has to
result in something as, in otherwords, being an attachment to
the results.
No it's hurtful.
It's hurting their productionand it's hurting the company's
bottom line.
Paul (19:38):
So then part of the part of the message that you've got
out there is around genuineinfluence.
On.
We'd love you to share the ideabehind genuine influence to
people, especially with regardsto how, business owners and
marketers can help buildinfluence, in an authentic way.
I think that's being lost thesedays.
I've, quite honestly, I just seeso many people putting stuff out
(19:59):
there that they haven't evenwritten themselves.
And then in the, it's hard.
So what's, what would you sayabout genuine influence with
regards to, especially withregards to that kind of
automation angle that's comingnow?
Bob (20:10):
If you look at influence itself on a very basic level, it
can be defined simply as theability to.
Move a person or persons to adesired action, usually within
the context of a specific goal.
That's the definition, butthat's not really the essence of
what we would call genuineinfluence.
Genuine influence is really notabout push.
(20:34):
your ideas, pushing your will.
Push it right on.
On others.
You never hear people say, wow,that Tom or that Mary, she is so
in, she has so much influence.
She has a lot of push withpeople.
No, she's influential.
She has a lot of pull withpeople and that's what genuine
influence really is.
(20:54):
It's pull, it's an attraction.
influencers.
Genuine influencers attractpeople first to themselves
through who they are, right?
And then to their idea.
Now again, this pull manifestsitself through the questions you
ask, well you listen in orderand when you ask questions or
(21:15):
your focus needs.
I always say be internallymotivated, but outwardly
focused.
So anything that you do, if youwanna be a genuine influencer
and the most effectiveinfluencer you can be is to
always question yourself.
Such as how does what I'm askingthis person to do?
How does it align with theirgoals?
(21:37):
I.
With their needs, their wants,their desires, with their
values.
How does what I'm asking thisperson to do, how does what I
want this person to do?
How does it solve a problem forthem?
Not for me.
For them, okay.
How does it move them closer tohappiness?
And when we ask ourselves thesequestions thoughtfully.
(22:00):
and intentionally intelligentlygenuinely, authentically not as
a way to manipulate anotherhuman being into doing our will,
but as a way of buildingeveryone in the process.
Now we've come a lot closer toearning that person's commitment
as a, which is pull as opposedto depending on some type of
(22:22):
compliance, which is push.
Paul (22:25):
I guess it's almost that idea of having social capital in
the bank with people and beingable to, command that when you
need to.
But I love the, I, I line quiteclosely with the idea that it is
not about the money.
It's about delivering some valueto somebody else's life and
work.
Commitments that makes theirlife better because you've been
(22:48):
in it and just knowing thatthere will be, financial, the
financial gains will come, butlike it is never the reason.
It's a symptom of having donewhat you've done.
It's an act outcome.
I.
Bob (22:59):
yeah.
One thing, John David Mann, myawesome co-author, what he what
he phrase he coined, I thinkthis goes right with what you
just said, is that money issimply an echo of value.
It's the funder, if you will, tovalues lightning.
Which means the value must beyour focus.
Remember, nobody's buying foryour reasons.
(23:20):
Nobody's buying for my reasons.
Nobody's buying for any of thereasons of anybody watching
this.
They're buying for their ownreasons, right?
That's also human nature andthat's reality.
And we need to respect reality.
so when we focus.
On providing immense value.
And remember, even value isrelative, right?
(23:42):
It's the relative worth ordesirability of a thing, of
something to the end user orbeholder.
What is it about this thing,this product service concept,
idea, what have you, that theyfind such high worth, immense,
worth, or value in that theywillingly exchange their money
for it.
They're glad they did.
While you make a healthy profit,like in any market based
(24:05):
exchange, there should always betwo profits, the buyer profits,
and the seller profits becauseeach of them come away better
off afterwards than they werebeforehand.
But it always begins with thesalesperson or entrepreneur
focusing, on how they can makethat other person's life better
through the value they'reproviding.
(24:25):
The money is simply a naturalresult of the
Paul (24:29):
Yeah,
Bob (24:29):
they've provided.
Paul (24:31):
and again, it can't just be I need to add value to this
person so that I get some returnout of this.
It has to be, I'm going to addvalue to this person.
Full stop,
Bob (24:41):
Yeah.
Paul (24:42):
end of conversation.
Bob (24:43):
Oh, exactly.
Paul (24:44):
But it always does.
It always comes back.
It always, whether it's directlyin sales, whether it's in other
opportunities, whether it'sreferrals or connections or
network, or just trust like it'sthere and it's absolutely
palpable.
It baffles me that I didn't comeacross your work.
Long before I did.
And exactly as you described atthe beginning, when I heard more
(25:06):
about your philosophy and themethodology behind the Go Giver,
it did feel like somebody hadgiven me permission to carry on
doing what I was doing.
I was like, this is on that isreally.
Wow.
Somebody else thought that too.
Oh, I wasn't the firstdevastated but genuinely I've
thoroughly enjoyed theconversation.
Bob and I could probably do, athree or four hours of
conversation with you, and it'sbeen fascinating to dig behind
(25:29):
the scenes a bit.
Thank you very much for comingalong today and being a fabulous
guest.
Bob (25:33):
my absolute pleasure, honor to be with you.
Paul (25:36):
Thank you very much.
And ladies and gentlemen, ifyou're watching along and you're
entertained by what Bob's had tosay today, I will make sure that
all of the the show notes, coverall of Bob's books and where you
can find out more informationabout the Go giver.
Would love you to dig into thata bit more because.
More than anything, more thanany of the guests that we've had
on the show.
I just think that by followingthat, that philosophy, then the
(25:56):
world would just be a such anicer place to be in.
When you next open your LinkedIninbox and you see all the spam
mail that's in there, just askyourself like, if everybody in
this inbox followed the GOGImethodology and believed the
same things, we would never haveanother spam message to deal
with.
Wouldn't that be a nice place tobe?
Thank you very much for being afabulous guest, Bob, and thank
(26:18):
you everyone who's watchingalong from home.
Really appreciate you being afantastic audience for us.
And we'll see you next week.
Bye-bye.
We've all heard that sales isabout closing deals, but what if
that's completely wrong?
In this episode, I sat down withBob Berg co-author of the Gore
Giver, a book that has sold overa million copies globally.
Not only that, but Bob is awhole of fame keynote speaker
and is known the world over forhis philosophy on networking.
(00:24):
I'm joined by Bob as he exploreshow the most successful people
in business don't just selltheir serve, build, trust, and
focus on creating value first.
If you want to win in businesswithout being pushy, you need to
hear this.
Paul (00:39):
Hello and welcome back to MarketPulse Pro and Pioneers,
where this week we have a verylimited special edition episode
this week.
It is my honor, to be honest,Bob to invite you along to the
episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, Bob Bergthank you for coming along
today, Bob.
Bob (00:57):
Thank you, Paul.
The honor is mine.
Thank you for having me.
Paul (00:59):
The interesting story is I was chatting on a post in
LinkedIn and somebody who,ironically the person who tagged
you, Bob, that isn't even in myinitial network either.
And they kindly tagged you intothe post and you'd reply to
something that I'd said, andyour name immediately sprung to
mind because I've had your namedrummed into me by various
people who are respecting thenetworking world.
(01:21):
And whilst I, I hadn't read yourbook, I knew of your book, and I
know that we're very muchaligned in how we go about
things.
And so I'm very pleased that youaccepted the cheeky invitation
via email to come along to thepodcast.
Really do appreciate your timetoday.
Bob (01:39):
My, my absolute pleasure.
Paul (01:40):
So ladies and gentlemen, in, in the audience if you don't
know Bob I'd suggest that youfamiliarize yourself to be
honest, because I align veryheavily and I know a lot of you
follow me because you also alignwith my vision on networking and
relationships.
And I'm happy to say that a lotof that.
Happens to be similar to verymuch based on the teachings that
(02:00):
Bob's given for the last 30years or so.
Bob is a Hall of Fame keynotespeaker, a bestselling author,
and also one of the world's leadinvoices on relationship
marketing and influence.
And his book, the Go Giver,which is co-authored by John
David Mann, as well, has soldover 1 million copies and
sparked a global movement aroundthe idea that shifting your
(02:23):
focus from getting to giving andproviding immense value to
others is the most effective wayto achieve business success.
So as I say, for the last 40years, Bob has coached
entrepreneurs, leaders, andsales professionals on how to
build high trust relationships.
Generate endless referrals andgrow their business by becoming
(02:44):
Go givers.
Bob also runs the Go GiverAcademy, which is offers his
training programs as well as hisdaily impact emails, and Bob
continues to teach thatinfluence, generosity, and value
creation are the real drivers ofsuccess.
Bob, I have to say, in an AIdriven world where everybody's
looking for an easy and cheapsilver bullet to make themselves
(03:05):
rich quick.
That by all is just sorefreshing to hear because it's
real.
It's real.
And I live it.
I know how much impact that has.
So yeah, did you start out withthe whole Go Giver journey, Bob?
Like what were your early daysthat led to that kind of Mormon
where you thought that this issomething that needs to be out
(03:29):
there in the world?
Bob (03:30):
Yeah.
It's a great question, Paul,because I was very.
To be raised by two wonderfulparents.
And so I think they instilledthat, That basic mindset in me.
And and that's, that's very muchan advantage.
And I know my co-author JohnDavid Mann, he said, his parents
were very much the same.
(03:50):
Really when I got into thebusiness world beginning in
sales, I saw people do things incertain ways that.
Sometimes you see people dothings according to the values
that you hold and they do reallywell, and other times they do
those things and they don't doas well.
And other people do thingscontrary to what you believe
they do really well.
And other times people doingthings contrary to what you
(04:11):
believe and they don't do well.
Okay?
However, in time you begin tosee patterns develop, right?
And patterns are those thingsthat are.
predictable.
Doesn't mean it's a hundredpercent of the time, but it's
predictably true.
And what I saw was this, thatthe most successful, the highest
(04:32):
money earning sustainably,successfully, high earning money
earning people and those whoalso had success in their
personal life, had goodfriendships and healthy
relationships, and felt goodabout themselves.
it Just seemed like these werethe people who were really just
focused on making other people'slives better.
(04:53):
Not in a self-sacrificial way,not in a way that hurt them no,
but in a way that always found away to add value to life and add
value to the lives of others.
To me, since that was congruentwith the values I was brought up
with, it made sense for me tofollow that.
A couple of years after I'd beenin sales, I.
I had done fairly well after aslow start because I had no
(05:18):
formal sales training.
But once I started, reading theright books and going to the
right seminars and listening tothe right, back then it was
audio tapes.
That's how long ago this was.
But, my sales went really well,but then I moved to another
company.
And I was selling a high ticketitem, and I was in a sa.
I started in a sales slump andwas not getting out of it.
(05:38):
I made a very youngsalesperson's mistake.
And that is, I panicked and Istarted really focusing on
myself and my sales as opposedto focusing on, I.
Pleasing the customer andhelping them with what they
needed.
And one day an older gentleman,he was about to retire.
He wasn't even in the salesdepartment.
I think he was an engineer orsomething.
(05:58):
He was one of these very quiettype of people who didn't say
much, but whenever he did, itwas always profound.
He said to me.
I think he saw, the potential inme and he said, Berg, can I
share something with you or canI give you some advice?
He said, I said, sure I could.
I could use it.
And he said, if you wanna make alot of money in sales, he said,
don't have making money as yourtarget.
(06:21):
Serving people.
Now when you hit the target, hecontinued, you'll get a reward
and that reward will come in theform of money and you can do
with that money, whatever youchoose.
But never forget, he said, themoney is simply the reward for
hitting the target.
It's not the target itself.
Your target is serving others.
(06:42):
And Paul, what that said to mewas that great salesmanship.
Is never about the salesperson.
great salesmanship is neverabout the product or service as
important as that is.
It's just never what it's about.
Great salesmanship is reallyabout the value you are adding
(07:03):
to another person's life, or wecould even say it's about
another person's life beingbetter.
Because you are part of it.
And I think when start from thatpremise, we're really nine steps
ahead of the game in a 10 stepgame.
Paul (07:20):
Question for you on that note then, do you think.
It is possible for somebody whohas previously come at their
sales game from a perspective oflooking to make revenue, and
it's all about the money andtransactional, and how can I
make my, make this sale biggerby just doing what I need to do?
What's necessary?
(07:41):
Is it possible for somebody toflip that mindset, to become a
Go Giver, to lead with valuefirst?
Bob (07:48):
It's possible, and I've seen a lot of people do it.
But here's what's important andhere's why I your question,
because it has to do withwhether this person is willing
to look at a different way ofdoing something.
I.
Because if this person doesn'tsee that, they're let's put it
this way.
We can never overcome a problem.
We don't realize we have.
(08:08):
So if this person, based ontheir mindset or their
upbringing, or what they've beentaught, which they have,
accepted as fact, accepted astruth, this is how you do it.
There's only one thing they mayjust say no, I'm not interested
in something like that.
But you've got the person whosays yeah, okay, I've made a
good living, I've made a goodcareer.
I'm always having to repeat myefforts.
(08:30):
don't have loyal advocates, Idon't feel necessarily good
about myself all the timebecause I have to say and do
things in a way that reallyisn't, so there a better way to
do this?
And okay, now they're in aposition where they can.
open to some new information ina different way of doing things.
And one of the nicest thingsJohn and I can hear is that
(08:54):
someone did exactly that.
I will say this, Paul, mostpeople who write us will say
they like most about the book isyou just told me.
What I want to be doing, this ishow I want to be doing, how I've
always done it.
It's just you've given me almostpermission to do things in a,
because human nature really sayswe wanna make a difference in
(09:14):
people's lives.
And as salespeople andentrepreneurs, we tend to do
that mainly through our productor service Now that doesn't mean
we can't do other things and beinvolved in other that, but most
of our time is working right.
At a sense.
So that's how we really bringvalue to the world and I think
most people, most entrepreneurs,salespeople, they wanna feel
good about what they're doing.
(09:34):
So I think a lot of peoplerelated to the book because of
that.
love when we hear from someonewho says, oh, I was always
taught blah, blah, blah, blah.
Since using the Go Giver way,we've boom, and that's just
always such a wonderful thing tohear.
Paul (09:49):
That's fascinating.
If I bring it back a little bitthen, so you'd obviously started
in that sales role.
You were starting to figurethings out in terms of adding
that value and putting that intopractice and believing in that
kind of service led relationshipbuilding.
What was the point where yourealized that you had something
that other people needed tohear?
Bob (10:10):
Oh gosh.
I think one of the biggestthings, and this came out of
necessity, was that in theprospecting process, I.
It can be so difficult to getpeople's interest in you.
And I always say when I firststarted in sales, I was on the
phone a lot, right?
And so one of the first things Ilearned and I came to realize
(10:33):
that I just discovered, right?
Is that nobody hung up the phoneon me they were talking.
If I'm talking about myself andmy product they are, and we're
number one, and we've beenaround since 19 and they don't
care.
They're right, wanna get off thephone, but if they're talking
about themselves, they areengaged.
(10:53):
You know what, not only was thattrue in person on the phone it
was, it's, it was true inperson.
Of course, today, we could sayon Zoom back then, 40 years ago
that wasn't the case.
But it was true in person sowhat I came up with was a way of
having certain questions thatyou could ask people engage them
(11:14):
to begin.
A healthy relationship.
One of the things I've said, Isaid this in my first book,
endless Referrals back in 94, Ithink it came out, but I was
saying this before that is thatwhat I call the golden Rule of
Sales?
The Golden Rule of Business, andthat is all things being equal
people will do business with andrefer business to those people
they know and trust.
(11:35):
The fastest, most powerful.
Most effective way to elicitthose feelings toward you is by
moving from an eye focus or mefocus to that.
Other focus looking to as Sam,one of the mentors and the
Go-Giver advised Joe the protegeto make your win all about the
(11:56):
other person's win.
And we can do that in an initialconversation with someone that
we just met somewhere in ourcommunity, at a, some function
or a an event or whatever ithappens to be.
When we asked that person howthey got started in their
business.
Because who asked them how theygot started there?
Most people are just talkingabout themselves.
They give their elevator speechand, but what if we said to
(12:18):
somebody, we have introducedourselves and we know they sell
copying machines and we sellwhatever we sell and we say
this.
How did you get started?
How did you get your start as anoffice products professional?
Now it's not a clever question,not a slick question.
It's very mundane.
How did you get started in,whatever Your people love
answering that question, right?
(12:40):
Because you're asking them totell you their story.
Nobody asked them to tell themtheir own family has never asked
them to tell them how they gottheir stuff, and here's you who
different from everyone elsethey've met.
You're another question, a nicefollow up question to that is.
Is asking them what they enjoymost about what they do, right?
(13:00):
So it might be why you must havehad some fascinating
experiences.
What do you enjoy most aboutyour work?
This is a question that flies inthe face of so much traditional
sales teaching, where we'retaught to immediately find their
pain, reach into their heart andtear it out so you can go, but
the relationship hasn't evenstarted yet.
They're not necessarily readyfor this.
(13:21):
And, when you ask thesequestions and then, I like to
ask what I call the one keyquestion that will distinguish
you from the rest after askingthese first couple of questions,
and that is.
How can I know if someone I'mspeaking with is a good
potential client for you?
So again, You're focusing onthem.
From the very beginning.
And you are creating thatenvironment for this person to
(13:44):
really feel good about you, towanna get to know you better, to
wanna be part of your life.
And these are how related.
And when I started doing thatand started teaching that to
people and people were saying,oh my gosh, this takes all the
pressure off me having to do.
And people were coming back andsaying, oh, this is, that's when
it said, okay, I think there'ssomething here.
(14:06):
That people are open to, thatpeople want learn about.
Paul (14:10):
Amazing.
Amazing.
It is.
It's,
Bob (14:12):
for that were my folks.
Just
Paul (14:13):
yeah.
Bob (14:14):
them do that
Paul (14:14):
And that, it's fascinating hearing you say that because
again, that's something I canalign with myself as well.
So it part of me wonders whetherthere is, a lot of stock in
that.
Certainly a good base point tojump off from.
I wonder then, so obviously atthis point you're a sales
person.
You are starting to see, peoplearound you are starting to take
an interest in what you've gotto see.
What was the point where youdecided that you were happy to
(14:37):
give a keynote speech?
Did that get thrust on you?
Did you ask for it?
How did that happen?
Bob (14:42):
So what happened was I was I was always attending seminars
when I could, to learn more.
And so now at this point, I'm asales manager of a company Zig
Ziglar was coming into town andanother guy was coming into town
opening for Zig.
And so I took my sales staff tothe, my sales team to this
event.
So at the end, I buy Zigs tapes,of course,'cause I always buy
whatever Zig would sell.
And then this other guy wasselling a tape tape.
(15:02):
Again, these are tapes.
I don't even know if youraudience members remember the,
the
Paul (15:07):
Oh I, think they do.
Bob (15:08):
And I went, I got that person's tapes.
They were really good.
Good information.
And at the back he had anadvertisement that said, if you
wanna make some extra moneylearning how to speak and sell
these tapes, call our office.
So I did and I went down thereand they showed me what I'd need
to do and I, I could buywholesale the, the tapes.
(15:29):
And then they taught me that theguy himself taught me how to
give 30 minute.
Presentations at all sorts ofcivic clubs, organizations,
groups, anywhere that anyonethat would have me for 25 to 30
minutes, how to do the little,sales commercial at the end,
holding up the tapes.
And, from what I understand, Iwas their leading salesperson
and doing that across thecountry part-time, but again,
(15:51):
'cause I listened, I did whatthey told me to do.
But it put the finer in me thatI like doing that.
And so then I, I began my ownspeaking practice.
My own speaking business.
A key for me was that I joinedthe national Speakers
Association, which is a bigassociation of professional
speakers.
And so I learned, which isfocused mainly on the business
(16:11):
of speaking.
'cause it's like anything else,it's a business like anything
else.
And I learned sort of the systemfor selling and marketing myself
as a speaker.
And I did that and, few years,it took a few years to build a
successful practice.
But eventually I did.
Paul (16:24):
So.
Coming to the end of that sideof things then.
And obviously you've beenkeynote speaking for such a long
time.
What's your, you must have afavorite story of somebody who's
been impacted by the messagethat you've delivered.
What's the biggest impact you'vedelivered to somebody else's
life?
Because that's, again, alignswith so much with what I do
because my why is helping peoplemake better decisions so they
(16:47):
can live a better life.
Where does that sit for you?
Bob (16:50):
And I think my why is really to be an encourager to,
to help people feel genuinelygood about themselves.
And so when I speak, really mygoal is to provide the how to
information such a way that theyhave the confidence.
To be able to go out andimmediately apply it.
(17:12):
So I would say that the feedbackI received from the talks is
along those lines, that theywere able to take the
information and boom, put it, I,sometimes I hear these sales
figures from people and I think,oh my gosh, they're doing a lot
better than I could done.
But I love, it's the nicetcompliment you could receive.
Paul (17:31):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it, but that begs aninteresting question, right?
A lot of businesses are drivenby the investors in the
business.
They, especially in the techworld and the SaaS businesses,
and the pressure, I see a lot ofsalespeople being put under, is
driven by those metrics that theinvestors wanna be able to
measure.
They wanna be able to know,right?
(17:51):
You've reached out to, I don'tknow, 10,000 leads this month
via email via phone calls, viaWhatsApp, via LinkedIn.
What would be your advice to asalesperson who wants to adopt
the Go Giver methodology andphilosophy, but they're feeling
the pressure from above toautomate things and Go in the
(18:12):
transactional route, if thatmakes sense.
Bob (18:15):
Yeah, my message is more to the leadership to understand
something.
That, nobody's gonna buy fromtheir salespeople because they
want them to be able to give,metrics.
And if you force yoursalespeople to do that, what
you're doing is you're reallycutting off your nose, spite
your face you're yourself.
(18:36):
Now remember.
Doing this selling as a Go-Giverdoesn't mean it, it takes longer
than doing it by, by just tryingto make the quick sale.
No, it actually Is faster.
The reason why is, again, ifyou're the type of person who's
just, you're just focused somuch on making the sale and
getting their money, people knowthat.
(18:56):
Not everybody, but most do, andthey're less, they're actually
more resistant to you when theyknow that you genuinely have
their wellbeing at heart.
Which comes from knowing how toask the right questions in the
sales conversation, how todiscover their needs, their
wants, their desires, right?
How to add the insights that aregonna help mitigate weaknesses
(19:17):
and help them to leveragestrengths and all these things.
Your sales are gonna come fasterbut when you put pressure on a
salesperson to have to accountfor every contact that has to
result in something as, in otherwords, being an attachment to
the results.
No it's hurtful.
It's hurting their productionand it's hurting the company's
bottom line.
Paul (19:38):
So then part of the part of the message that you've got
out there is around genuineinfluence.
On.
We'd love you to share the ideabehind genuine influence to
people, especially with regardsto how, business owners and
marketers can help buildinfluence, in an authentic way.
I think that's being lost thesedays.
I've, quite honestly, I just seeso many people putting stuff out
(19:59):
there that they haven't evenwritten themselves.
And then in the, it's hard.
So what's, what would you sayabout genuine influence with
regards to, especially withregards to that kind of
automation angle that's comingnow?
Bob (20:10):
If you look at influence itself on a very basic level, it
can be defined simply as theability to.
Move a person or persons to adesired action, usually within
the context of a specific goal.
That's the definition, butthat's not really the essence of
what we would call genuineinfluence.
Genuine influence is really notabout push.
(20:34):
your ideas, pushing your will.
Push it right on.
On others.
You never hear people say, wow,that Tom or that Mary, she is so
in, she has so much influence.
She has a lot of push withpeople.
No, she's influential.
She has a lot of pull withpeople and that's what genuine
influence really is.
(20:54):
It's pull, it's an attraction.
influencers.
Genuine influencers attractpeople first to themselves
through who they are, right?
And then to their idea.
Now again, this pull manifestsitself through the questions you
ask, well you listen in orderand when you ask questions or
(21:15):
your focus needs.
I always say be internallymotivated, but outwardly
focused.
So anything that you do, if youwanna be a genuine influencer
and the most effectiveinfluencer you can be is to
always question yourself.
Such as how does what I'm askingthis person to do?
How does it align with theirgoals?
(21:37):
I.
With their needs, their wants,their desires, with their
values.
How does what I'm asking thisperson to do, how does what I
want this person to do?
How does it solve a problem forthem?
Not for me.
For them, okay.
How does it move them closer tohappiness?
And when we ask ourselves thesequestions thoughtfully.
(22:00):
and intentionally intelligentlygenuinely, authentically not as
a way to manipulate anotherhuman being into doing our will,
but as a way of buildingeveryone in the process.
Now we've come a lot closer toearning that person's commitment
as a, which is pull as opposedto depending on some type of
(22:22):
compliance, which is push.
Paul (22:25):
I guess it's almost that idea of having social capital in
the bank with people and beingable to, command that when you
need to.
But I love the, I, I line quiteclosely with the idea that it is
not about the money.
It's about delivering some valueto somebody else's life and
work.
Commitments that makes theirlife better because you've been
(22:48):
in it and just knowing thatthere will be, financial, the
financial gains will come, butlike it is never the reason.
It's a symptom of having donewhat you've done.
It's an act outcome.
I.
Bob (22:59):
yeah.
One thing, John David Mann, myawesome co-author, what he what
he phrase he coined, I thinkthis goes right with what you
just said, is that money issimply an echo of value.
It's the funder, if you will, tovalues lightning.
Which means the value must beyour focus.
Remember, nobody's buying foryour reasons.
(23:20):
Nobody's buying for my reasons.
Nobody's buying for any of thereasons of anybody watching
this.
They're buying for their ownreasons, right?
That's also human nature andthat's reality.
And we need to respect reality.
so when we focus.
On providing immense value.
And remember, even value isrelative, right?
(23:42):
It's the relative worth ordesirability of a thing, of
something to the end user orbeholder.
What is it about this thing,this product service concept,
idea, what have you, that theyfind such high worth, immense,
worth, or value in that theywillingly exchange their money
for it.
They're glad they did.
While you make a healthy profit,like in any market based
(24:05):
exchange, there should always betwo profits, the buyer profits,
and the seller profits becauseeach of them come away better
off afterwards than they werebeforehand.
But it always begins with thesalesperson or entrepreneur
focusing, on how they can makethat other person's life better
through the value they'reproviding.
(24:25):
The money is simply a naturalresult of the
Paul (24:29):
Yeah,
Bob (24:29):
they've provided.
Paul (24:31):
and again, it can't just be I need to add value to this
person so that I get some returnout of this.
It has to be, I'm going to addvalue to this person.
Full stop,
Bob (24:41):
Yeah.
Paul (24:42):
end of conversation.
Bob (24:43):
Oh, exactly.
Paul (24:44):
But it always does.
It always comes back.
It always, whether it's directlyin sales, whether it's in other
opportunities, whether it'sreferrals or connections or
network, or just trust like it'sthere and it's absolutely
palpable.
It baffles me that I didn't comeacross your work.
Long before I did.
And exactly as you described atthe beginning, when I heard more
(25:06):
about your philosophy and themethodology behind the Go Giver,
it did feel like somebody hadgiven me permission to carry on
doing what I was doing.
I was like, this is on that isreally.
Wow.
Somebody else thought that too.
Oh, I wasn't the firstdevastated but genuinely I've
thoroughly enjoyed theconversation.
Bob and I could probably do, athree or four hours of
conversation with you, and it'sbeen fascinating to dig behind
(25:29):
the scenes a bit.
Thank you very much for comingalong today and being a fabulous
guest.
Bob (25:33):
my absolute pleasure, honor to be with you.
Paul (25:36):
Thank you very much.
And ladies and gentlemen, ifyou're watching along and you're
entertained by what Bob's had tosay today, I will make sure that
all of the the show notes, coverall of Bob's books and where you
can find out more informationabout the Go giver.
Would love you to dig into thata bit more because.
More than anything, more thanany of the guests that we've had
on the show.
I just think that by followingthat, that philosophy, then the
(25:56):
world would just be a such anicer place to be in.
When you next open your LinkedIninbox and you see all the spam
mail that's in there, just askyourself like, if everybody in
this inbox followed the GOGImethodology and believed the
same things, we would never haveanother spam message to deal
with.
Wouldn't that be a nice place tobe?
Thank you very much for being afabulous guest, Bob, and thank
(26:18):
you everyone who's watchingalong from home.
Really appreciate you being afantastic audience for us.
And we'll see you next week.
Bye-bye.
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