August 6, 2025 • 31 mins
Enjoying the Show? Share Your Experience!
Judy Micale has built a life and career around one core principle: compassion is power.
From her early experiences working across social service, education, and corporate leadership, Judy saw a recurring gap—leaders weren’t trained to lead with heart. In this episode, she reveals the truths most leadership courses won’t teach you. Through her decades of experience and coaching, Judy uncovers how to build businesses centred around people, and why that matters more now than ever.
This episode dives deep into the personal moments that shaped Judy’s mission—from recognising burnout before it breaks you, to turning the smallest moments (like a penny on a needle) into life-changing lessons. She also shares her transition from the corporate grind to launching her own business rooted in coaching, mindfulness, and authentic connection.
Listeners will explore practical insights around communication, brand-building beyond social media, and the impact of compassion in leadership. Judy discusses the cost of neglecting human-centred leadership—and the ripple effect when we get it right. You’ll leave with actionable ideas to become a more present, self-aware, and trusted leader, regardless of your role or industry.
Ready to rethink everything you thought you knew about leadership? Tune in to hear why Judy believes the future of leadership is deeply human, and why your brand, team, and business will thrive when you lead with empathy.
Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@marketpulsepodcast?sub_confirmation=1
Show Links
Powered by Javelin Content: www.javelincontent.com
Find Paul on LinkedIn at www.linkedin.com/in/paul-banks007
ADHD LIBERTY - the first charity to be screening for ADHD in UK police stations. Fighting to stop the School-to-Prison Pipeline.
http://www.ADHDLiberty.org
http://www.SarahTempleton.org.uk
http://www.HeadstuffADHDTherapy.com
Thanks for listening!!
You can catch us on all major podcast directories - New episode every Wednesday at 3pm UK time. Give us a subscribe to make sure you don't miss out!
We're also on YouTube!
If you want to feature as a guest, and you're either a business owner who does most of their own marketing, or you're a marketer with a passion for sharing your knowledge, current trends and adding value, reach out to me directly.
This show is brought to you by Javelin Content Management - Getting ideas out of your head, into video, and out to your socials.
Use our unique "Record & Repurpose" service to generate over 200 pieces of eye catching content from 30 minutes of your long form video content.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
Too many leaders focus on strategy and forget the human
(00:03):
side of business.
Judy Micale is going to explainto today how compassion and
storytelling can make you abetter leader and why most
businesses get it wrong.
Welcome to MarketPulse ProPioneers.
Judy,
Judy (00:16):
Thank you.
Paul (00:16):
thank you very much for coming along and being a guest
today.
I'll give a bit of your bio in amoment for the viewers out
there, but appreciate you takingthe time to join us.
Judy is an executive leadershipcoach corporate trainer and
speaker with over 14 yearsexperience coaching Fortune 100
executives across industrieslike tech, technology, sales,
energy.
And as the founder of JudyMicale, LLC, she specializes in
(00:39):
guiding leaders through intensechange, helping them foster
resilience, communication, andcompassion with their teams.
Her approach is rooted in thebelief that when communication
and compassion converge truetransformation happens.
Judy's also a certifiedcompassionate fatigue educator
and Canfield success principlestrainer, bringing a unique blend
(01:01):
of strategy, psychology,storytelling to leadership and
workplace dynamics.
I have to say, Judy, I didn'teven know that there was a, such
a qualification as being acertified compassion fatigue
educator.
And I think it's, that's anamazing title and accolade to be
able to add to your cv.
Something that really does alignwith my own personal, my
(01:23):
energies, I guess, and mybeliefs.
So, but before we get into thatside of things, you spent 14
years coaching executives.
What came before that, Judy?
well that's where the compassion
Judy (01:32):
piece comes into play.
Before that, I've had manychapters in my life.
My very first chapter, Iactually designed evidence-based
practices to work with youth allthe way up to the age of 21.
And then I worked with adults aswell in the behavioral health
arena for many years and hadmany hats.
In that arena.
(01:52):
So each one built upon theother.
I'm a firm believer in the doorsopen and close for a reason as
you go through life.
And one of the last trainingsand certifications that I went
through was around compassion,because I was working with
providers.
In the behavioral health arena alot, and I was also working with
(02:15):
leaders in that arena, and I wasnoticing a lot of exhaustion.
not quite burnout, but they wereexhausted, so I really wanted to
know more.
And I'm that geek that divesinto neuroscience and all of
those good things.
And that's where that came from.
It's not quite burnout how Idefine the difference between
(02:37):
the two.
And a lot of people said, youknow, compassion fatigue is just
a symptom and a sign.
But how I usually define it isby answering a simple question,
do you still love your job?
If it's yes or yes, but you'rein that.
Borderline of hitting burnout.
But if you say no, like done,then you've hit burnout.
(03:01):
And so, you know, usually when Iwould ask that question, most of
my people were at the yes or theyes, but so how do we then build
in self-care?
What is it that we need to doaround time management and
setting boundaries and all ofthose beautiful things in
reality, when I've only had, Ithink twice.
In the entire time that I'vedone this, and I've done
(03:23):
training around this for oh,close to 20 years now, only been
two times that somebody hassaid, no, I don't love it
anymore, and they were alreadyout the door.
They were leaving, they weredone, and you could see it in
their face.
So what I tried to do is workwith people before they hit that
wall.
Paul (03:41):
What do you think kind of led, what triggered you to be
curious about why people do thethings they do?
Because I find that the.
Usually a moment that, thatpeople go, oh, that was weird.
Why did they just do that?
Or, I wanna know more about, I'mcurious as to why you did that.
What's your curiosity stem fromJudy?
Judy (03:58):
From the time I was a little girl, I would watch
people.
I wasn't the child that ranaround into a store for
shopping, I wasn't that childwho ran around crazy and
everything.
I would find a chair and I wouldwatch people and just see how
they were reacting or theconversations they were having
and theexpressions on theirface.
(04:19):
I can't remember a time in mylife where I wasn't an observer
in some way, shape, or form.
So I was always curious about.
Why people acted or looked, orsaid things the way they said
things, but I never reallyquestioned it.
I just, it was just a part ofwho I was.
I.
It's, I think it's inborn mygrandmother was a nurse.
(04:42):
My mom has been a nurse.
Then she went in and didmanagement in a department
store, so she was out there allthe time, intermingling with
people.
My father owned a bar,restaurant, hotel, so I was
always exposed to people.
So I just think it was justingrained in me from the moment
I was born.
Paul (04:58):
It is.
Well, it's interesting that yousay that though, right?
Because my background is retail.
And I've got a lot of friendswho are in the travel and
tourism and leisure industries,and I find that we intersect on
so many things, and a lot of itstems back to that, that
principle of customer service.
I guess from our side of thingslike that response that I just
got wasn't what I expected.
Why?
How can I make that happenagain?
(05:19):
Or how can I avoid thathappening again?
What was it that we did?
I did the situation, did theenvironment did or whatever.
And yeah I, I.
Come to things from a similarpoint of view.
I'm always curious as to why wedo some crazy things as humans,
and I'm fascinated by what leadsto that happening.
So I, I love that you've kind ofdrawn that back to when you were
(05:39):
a child.
When you were younger then, didyou always envisage that you
would work in somewhere shape orform in the light?
I mean, I, as a child, I'm, I'veno doubt that you didn't want to
sit there and go, well, I wannabe an executive coach.
But did you kind of always knowthat you'd work with people to,
I.
Understand them better.
Has that been a goal for yousince young?
Judy (05:57):
Originally started In nursing as well.
I was following in the footstepsand, but even in high school,
psychology classes, I, I was inthat arena, didn't realize that
was the door I was going to godown eventually and really, you
know, explore that even deeper.
But that's where I got myundergraduate degree was in
(06:17):
counseling and then my.
My master's was in more aroundeducation and special education
and how do we, you know,identify and work with
individuals in different ways.
So from the time, again, from Iwould say high school on, I
always knew I was gonna be ofservice.
was just ingrained in me in someway, shape, or form.
(06:38):
When you look at all of the evenwithin my own family.
a unique way.
Everybody was of service in someway, shape, or form my father's
business.
He then went in and became apostal worker, but he was still
of service to people.
So it was an interesting towatch how my family's arena was
(06:58):
around that piece.
It was, how can we help others?
I.
Whatever light we were in,whether it was, you know, with
my mom, she would joke and teasepeople in the department stores
and just get people to followher and do those types of
things.
With my grandmother, she was ahead nurse, so she took care of
all of the nurses and you know,let's make sure that you're
taking care of yourself just asmuch as you're taking care of
(07:19):
others.
That was just ingrained again.
And so I think it's a beautifulplace to be, to know that your
life is to be of service.
So when I went into coaching, itjust unfolded that way.
I, you know, doors again openedand closed for a reason, and I
was enrolled in and took co, Ihad two coaches myself.
(07:41):
Way before coaching was popular,I was working with coaches and I
loved what was happening withinmyself.
Of how I got away from thatblaming and pointing fingers and
realizing my head was hittingthe wall because it was time for
me to move on, but I wasn'trecognizing those symbol SI
symptoms and signals very well.
(08:03):
And so that's where I was like,oh, what did you do to become
coach?
How did you get certification init?
And that's began that path.
The minute I went down thatpath, the other door closed
because this is where you'resupposed to be going now.
And even in my coaching careerwhere I started as a coach and
where I am today is no way,shape, or form the same I.
(08:24):
It is funny though I think thatso many people that I speak to
who are, who find a passion andan energy in what they do.
Walked a path previously thatmade them a unique fit for what
they now do, for example.
Right.
And part of me wonders, right?
So having worked in thecorporate world myself I never
(08:44):
saw things like neurodiversitycovered from a leadership
capability, right?
It was never even mentioned in15 years.
And I thought we were quite aforward thinking, seriously.
Leadership forecast business.
And now coming out of it Iwonder how much do you feel like
your experiences with behavioraland special needs helped you
(09:09):
identify traits in leaders thatmade you able to reach them when
others perhaps couldn't of,maybe even they couldn't reach
themselves.
You think that's the case?
I that the individuals that Iwork with find me in different
ways.
of the individuals I work with,there's common themes no matter
where you go.
and it's time management, it'ssetting boundaries, delegation.
(09:35):
It's the myth around I have tocontrol and so that's where i
find Micromanagement.
Yeah.
The neuroscience comes into playbecause it's a pattern that we
have within our brain that skipsback.
So I don't know if you're oldenough to remember, but when I
was younger, my sister had analbum record collection like you
(09:58):
wouldn't believe, and she wouldlisten to music all the time.
I remember specifically one dayshe was extremely upset because
the record would only go so farand then it would skip back to
the beginning, and she was sofrustrated with that and she was
seven years older than me, soshe was just like ready to throw
this record across the room.
(10:20):
My saw what was happening and hecame over and he simply put a
penny on the needle.
To help it get through thatgroove so that it continued to
play.
So when I think of neuroscienceand I think of coaching, that
penny on the needle.
For individuals, sometimes Ijust help them see that we don't
(10:42):
have to go back here.
We can actually continue to moveforward on play the rest of the
song out and that's my role, isto just be that penny on the
needle.
I love that analogy.
I love it when people havefound.
A story that means something tothem that really does help
convey their value to otherpeople.
(11:02):
I think that's a beautiful storyand I thank you very much for
sharing that with us.
'cause I'm sure there are peopleout there, you know, a lot of my
audience are also coaches ofsome sort.
And I'm sure that we're all kindof searching for that simple way
to describe what we do.
It's not easy.
So then moving, so I guess.
What was the turning point whenyou moved from being an employee
(11:23):
in business to starting your ownbusiness?
What made you kind of leave thecorporate world and go out on
your own?
Again, doors open and close fora reason.
I was literally taking theclasses what it was to be a
coach and certification incoaching and all of those
beautiful things and what arethe ethics and the components
(11:44):
behind it and all of that.
And I'm a big.
Component of correct andconfidentiality and all of those
pieces.
So as I was doing that, mymother became ill and she had
open heart surgery, melanoma,and pneumonia, all within three
weeks.
I was working.
(12:04):
I, you know, and then thishappened.
And so I literally just tooktime off from work and I worked
at a beautiful place that theygranted that permission.
And I just went and I took careof my mom during that timeframe.
But that also gave me a lot oftime of reflection and
journaling and doing, you know,where do I wanna go next?
And where I was at, there was aplace where it was a funding
(12:27):
stream that ran out.
So I was literally laid off.
Right after about three monthsafter all of that had happened
and I was like, oh, okay.
I guess it's time to start doingthe coaching piece now and still
take care of my mom.
And I joke and say, I inheritedtwo old people and a dog, my mom
and my stepdad and their dog,they all moved in with me
(12:49):
simultaneous.
Like, and so I just was like,oh, this is the perfect time for
me to start this coaching piece.
And that was, you know, whenZoom wasn't popular and people
didn't understand what Zoom was.
I was actually doing Zoom andtrying to educate people on how
to, we could actually see eachother.
We don't have to be on the phoneanymore.
Oh.
And so I was going through allof that.
(13:09):
So that was the journey.
It, we just all unfolded inthose lights and so it was a
great experience.
It was one that I would nevertrade again.
I would always go back and do itall over because it really
helped me become who I am.
Now when I work with leaders andthey get caught up in that, oh
my gosh, how do I take care ofthese individuals?
(13:31):
Priority number one is your ownself care.
I had a beautiful mindfulnessmentor in my life at the time.
And yeah I still work with himand one of the things that he
said was, you have to have yourown well overflowing in order to
be able to care for others.
So analogy I go back to is,here's your fuel tank.
(13:53):
This is full, right?
Where are you at on that fueltank?
And we start going down, ifwe're driving on fumes.
what is it you need to do, startdoing to build in for your own
self care so that you can carenot just for your team or your
family, but you need to care foryourself as well.
(14:14):
And that's one of my biggestmessages when I'm working with
individuals.
There are too many people whotry and spread themselves too
thin, especially in leadership.
You're trying to be everythingto everyone.
You are shielding your peoplefrom things falling from above.
You are shielding yourself fromthings coming up.
From the ground you are caughtin the middle and quite often
leader, like leadership is one,like most people don't
(14:35):
appreciate it, but leadership'sone of the toughest things that
you can do in long term.
And it's both incrediblyrewarding and incredibly tiring
and trying at times at the sametime.
A lot of your focus is aroundthe importance of communication
and compassion in leadership,right?
So is that teaching them thingsthat they don't know or just
kind of unlocking, probablygiving them permission to do the
(14:57):
things that they suspect butdon't really, haven't tried.
Coaching is asking the questionsand asking them where they wanna
go.
more about letting them discoverthat they have the answers
within them, and sometimes it'sjust asking them, have you ever
had a similar situation and whatdid you do?
And learning, oh yeah, wait aminute, if I do some reflection.
(15:21):
I've had a similar situation.
Let me take that tool out, dustit off, sand it off, reshape it
a little bit so that I can reuseit in this way of my time, it's
around difficult conversationsbecause they have to give them
feedback.
So I always ask the question,how did you learn yourself?
You learn by making mistakes.
(15:42):
you by sometimes epic fails.
And part of a leader is havingthe compassion but going down
the rabbit hole of empathy andsympathy too far, and adding an
action step of that's aninteresting problem.
What would you like to do aboutit?
And that helps.
(16:04):
Them realize, wait a minute.
Yeah.
I do have to let my people failevery once in a while, as long
as it's not gonna destroy thecompany.
Let them make those mistakesbecause then they're gonna
remember them and learn and growfrom it.
We've all had to have mistakesin our lives in order to be
where we are now.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
A client of mine put itbeautifully.
He said every morning took hisdaughter out to school and he'd
(16:28):
checked the weather forecast'cause we live in England,
right?
So he'd check the weatherforecast and see whether rain
was forecast or not.
And if it was forecast for rain,he'd tick the umbrella for his
daughter, and.
Eventually she got old enoughthat he thought she was ready to
figure things out for herself,and he trained her to look at
the weather forecast and he'dstart letting her go out on her
own accord with or without theumbrella at her own risk.
(16:49):
And she'd get wet if she got itwrong.
She hadn't checked.
And it taught her a lesson.
But kind of, there's adifference between that.
Paul (16:54):
And you wouldn't let your child step out in front of a
bus.
So there are lessons that youcan.
As a leader, you can let youremployees, your direct reports,
your colleagues take, and youknow that the risks limited and
all is good.
But there are also risks that weneed to protect them from and
educate them from.
Judy (17:12):
And it's understanding that balance between what might
okay with the mistakes being andwhat might, what should we maybe
not let them make those mistakesand walk them through it
together.
So I love that kind of.
Analogy led discussions andprevious experiences.
And it's clear likestorytelling's really important
to you as a person as well.
Right.
I imagine that, and that's, andI can tell that's come from your
(17:33):
family as well, because I canimagine you must have some
amazing stories with theindustries that you've
described.
I know my son gets much as hemight roll his eyes when I tell
them, my son gets a fair shareof stories too.
Like, what was it like?
Growing up in an environmentwhere storytelling was so
important do you feel likeyou've kind of took a lot of
that forward?
(17:53):
I never really gave that muchthought.
It's just a part of me.
And it was just a part of ourfamily, the, like, it was
mandated.
We sat down together at a fam asa family at six o'clock every
single night, and we would shareat least one good thing that
happened to us.
So even before, you know, thescience of gratitude was out
there and all those studies thatwere out there.
(18:14):
My family was doing it, and wedidn't even realize that we were
doing it.
And as I went into those arenasand I was like, oh, you mean
that everybody doesn't do that?
What do you mean that's sounusual?
We always Yeah.
and we always had Yeah.
the dinner table.
I mean, there were, so, therewere serious moments of course,
in our lives, but it, thatmoment was always a.
(18:36):
We're gonna talk about somethingfun.
We're gonna talk about somethinggood.
We're not gonna reflect on dramaor chaos or any of that.
That was for another time.
Dinner time was storytelling andyou're not gonna believe what
happened to me today.
And we would have literally 30minutes of just sitting there
eating and talking, and theneverybody would get up and do
(18:57):
their own thing and go back intowhatever it was they needed to
do.
So, oddly enough, I just alwaysfelt it was.
What everybody was supposed todo.
That leads nicely into aconversation around personal
brand because when I say apersonal brand to a lot of
people, the role, the rise andassume I'm talking about social
media, because for a lot of thetime that is exactly.
What I'm talking about.
But personal brand goes waybeyond that, especially for
(19:19):
executive leaders within abusiness because it's how people
talk about you when you are notthere, right?
It's not just your impact onsocial media, it's how the world
perceives you and treats you andwhat's your advice.
And at a very high level, Iappreciate, we can't, we, we've
only got kind of 10 minutes orso left, but what's your advice
to executive leaders aroundtheir own personal brand within
(19:41):
the workspace?
Leadership in our past world wasaround industrial thinking, so
that was where everybody was at,and that was the old.
that are still out there andthere's nothing wrong with that.
It got the job done, it gotwhere we were.
Today's world, it is more aboutcompassionate leadership.
And compassionate leadership issimply empathy plus action.
(20:04):
So when you're working withindividuals as a leader, it's
more about.
into and coaching, usingcoaching skills with them and
using mentoring skills with themand helping them and empowering
them.
It's not walking in and beingthat old micromanager who told
you what to do, how to do it,and when to do it by, because
(20:24):
that's, that doesn't apply intoday's world in any way, shape
or form.
Yeah.
what industry you're in, youhave to have that compassionate
piece.
That's why when I talk to peopleand I say, my tagline is
communication plus compassion.
equals for today's world andworkforce.
are the components that I workwith a lot around individuals
(20:46):
and leaders is what is it?
When you think about compassion,why do you roll your eyes all of
a sudden?
What does that mean for you?
Oh, let's redefine and look whatis really compassion?
It's an act of kindness.
It's a simple way of saying goodjob.
I actually did a leadershiptraining probably about six,
seven years ago now within anindustry of and only two women
(21:10):
were in the room.
And I asked the question, whenwas the last time you said thank
you for something?
And I had one of those olderindividuals and he was like, oh,
they should know they're doing agood job.
And I simply said.
Why is that?
Are they psychic?
Have you asked them what theyneed from you for recognition,
appreciation, or what motivatesthem as an individual?
(21:33):
'cause you can't motivate them.
That has to come internally fromthem.
Once I asked him that question,I was like, when was this?
Like, seriously, when was thelast time you said thank you to
anybody?
He came back two weeks later inthe next class in, training that
we were doing.
I wasn't working with him as acoach, it was just as a trainer.
And he said, you know, I saidthank you to somebody, and I,
(21:54):
they almost fell over.
So we looked at it and I waslike, yeah, that's it.
That's the key.
That's the one question Iusually ask my leaders too, is
have you had that conversationabout what people need from you
for recognition andappreciation?
Because everybody's different.
Everybody's unique when it comesto that, and there's two
(22:16):
different pieces to recognitionand there's two different pieces
to re appreciation andrecognition is simply that.
It could be a little post-itnote that says, thank you, I
appreciate you, or it could begoing out and having lunch with
people.
I used to joke and tell people,don't give me an award.
I just found a drawer full of'em, and I don't know what to do
with them.
(22:37):
They're not on my walls,obviously.
They're not out there.
That's not who I am as anindividual.
boy, when my director that Iworked with at the time, or even
the CEO of the company came inand said, wow, you've got a lot
on your plate.
Let's work together to get thisoff your plate.
If you had me for life, Iwould've stayed there for as
(22:58):
long as I possibly could workwith them.
That was my need forappreciation and recognition.
You see how hard I'm working.
other it's, you know, it's let'sgo have lunch and have a
conversation.
You really care about them.
You wanna have a talk, you wannaconvers, you know, find out
what's going on in their life.
(23:18):
that's what I ask individualsis, when was the last time you
asked your people how do youwant communication?
Do you want texts?
Do you want emails?
What is it that works best foryou?
Some people still like thephone, oddly enough, so that's
one, two.
what is it it they needp fromyou for recognition and
appreciation that helps motivatethem then internally you'll have
(23:42):
individuals that work with you.
Being transparent doesn't meanthat you have to tell'em all the
ins and outs.
It simply means human let's worktogether.
Do you find that when you'veworked with a leader and they've
start to transform the way thatthey work with their employees
and within their business?
That, that then reflects on theoutside as well.
(24:02):
So obviously I look ateverything from a marketing
perspective and from an outsidein perspective.
Do you find that's then obviousthat there's been a change in
philosophy of change, in think,and a strategy and that people
feel more appreciated or workingtogether better?
Definitely there's a rippleeffect.
That's how I look at it.
We're throwing the stone intothe water.
(24:23):
And when you look at it, there'san immediate surge, but as you
watch, it ripples out furtherand further.
So there is that ripple effect.
And actually, that was my wordabout three years ago.
I pick a word every year me toreflect on.
And that was my word three yearsago.
And it was interesting to watchthe ripple effect.
coaching individuals thenthey're working with
(24:46):
individuals, what happens withintheir teams.
It's a great thing to see happenyou're working with a leader of
a team and then you actuallywork with their team as well.
There's that even bigger rippleeffect that you have.
One of the best examples I cangive you is I was working with a
(25:06):
gentleman and.
He was a manager his company.
He was also a personal trainerand he was also a dad.
And that's how he came to me.
He was very segmented and Ialways tell people, I deal with
you as a whole person.
I've never met a piece of a pie.
There's not a segment to you,you are a whole person.
(25:29):
So when we work together.
was Yep.
with a piece at his work, nothis personal training side, and
he was like, I'm just reallystruggling with this.
And I said, let me stop and askyou.
If you were working somebodywith somebody as a personal
trainer, what would you do inthat situation?
Well, I did da.
(25:50):
Oh, and you literally saw thedots getting connected and he
was like.
I could do that with thisindividual.
I said, 100%, let's try it.
So that was his beautiful part.
He literally saw what he dideven at home, you know, and then
the dots even got even furtherProject management isn't just at
(26:12):
work.
Project management.
Think about it, when you were achild, probably had a chore list
in some way, shape, or form.
That was the beginning ofproject management for you.
A great way of talking aboutthings.
I quite often, I get people cometo me.
For my day job.
And they're conflicted becausethey perhaps run two or three
businesses in various ways, likevarious levels of involvement.
(26:33):
Plus, like you say, they've gottheir own personal personality.
You know, I'm a dad, I'm ahusband, I'm a wife, whatever.
And they're struggling to, howdo I represent all of these
brands through one social mediaaccount?
And my honest answer at the backto them is always just be
yourself.
Like.
Be the expert that you are andtrust that people will find who
(26:56):
you are.
They'll align with you.
They'll match your energy levelsand theater themselves will
become curious and find theparts of your businesses that
they need to find as a result ofyou being your central self.
Not trying to be founder of thiscompany one day and then founder
of that company the next, andthen dad on the weekends.
We're just ourselves.
That's all any of us can everbe, so I love that.
(27:20):
From your perspective matcheswith the way that you are
working with your clients fromthe inside as well.
Because like I said, personalbrand extends way beyond social
media.
It's not a social media conceptor a construct.
It is.
We all have a personal brand,whether we like it or not and
how we are perceived when we'renot in the room, but me, by my
son, some dear by clients, butother dear work, colleagues,
(27:42):
partners, whoever, we need tohave a, we need to spend some
time.
Identifying what that personalbrand want needs to be for us
and work towards making it thething that it needs to be in our
head because we're probably notwhere we want to be, right.
For most of us.
Here's that something you see alot of.
just keep in the back of yourown mind is you take you with
(28:03):
you wherever you go.
So when you're looking at thatand you put it in that way,
being your authentic self, nomatter what situation you're in,
people are gonna recognize whenyou're being authentic and when
you're not.
So I always just say to myselfas I'm going out into the world,
I'm taking me with me wherever Igo.
(28:25):
What a great sentiment to endthe show on.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
To Judy, to do, Judy, I'vereally enjoyed the conversation.
And I hope you have too peoplewatching along at home or
listening along, if you're onaudio.
Thank you very much for givingyour time today to join us for
today's episode.
I'm sure you've also enjoyed it.
Judy, if people wanna reach out,you know, perhaps you've hit
some notes with some people outthere who might wanna find out a
(28:46):
bit more about your work and howthey could maybe work with you.
What's the best way for them toreach you?
just my name, judy mccauley.com,or they can connect with me on
LinkedIn.
It's a beautiful place toconnect on.
I'll make sure both those linksare in the show notes as well.
So nobody has to work hard tofind any either of those.
So thank you very much, Judy.
Appreciate your time and I hopeyou have a lovely week.
Bye-bye.
Too many leaders focus on strategy and forget the human
(00:03):
side of business.
Judy Micale is going to explainto today how compassion and
storytelling can make you abetter leader and why most
businesses get it wrong.
Welcome to MarketPulse ProPioneers.
Judy,
Judy (00:16):
Thank you.
Paul (00:16):
thank you very much for coming along and being a guest
today.
I'll give a bit of your bio in amoment for the viewers out
there, but appreciate you takingthe time to join us.
Judy is an executive leadershipcoach corporate trainer and
speaker with over 14 yearsexperience coaching Fortune 100
executives across industrieslike tech, technology, sales,
energy.
And as the founder of JudyMicale, LLC, she specializes in
(00:39):
guiding leaders through intensechange, helping them foster
resilience, communication, andcompassion with their teams.
Her approach is rooted in thebelief that when communication
and compassion converge truetransformation happens.
Judy's also a certifiedcompassionate fatigue educator
and Canfield success principlestrainer, bringing a unique blend
(01:01):
of strategy, psychology,storytelling to leadership and
workplace dynamics.
I have to say, Judy, I didn'teven know that there was a, such
a qualification as being acertified compassion fatigue
educator.
And I think it's, that's anamazing title and accolade to be
able to add to your cv.
Something that really does alignwith my own personal, my
(01:23):
energies, I guess, and mybeliefs.
So, but before we get into thatside of things, you spent 14
years coaching executives.
What came before that, Judy?
well that's where the compassion
Judy (01:32):
piece comes into play.
Before that, I've had manychapters in my life.
My very first chapter, Iactually designed evidence-based
practices to work with youth allthe way up to the age of 21.
And then I worked with adults aswell in the behavioral health
arena for many years and hadmany hats.
In that arena.
(01:52):
So each one built upon theother.
I'm a firm believer in the doorsopen and close for a reason as
you go through life.
And one of the last trainingsand certifications that I went
through was around compassion,because I was working with
providers.
In the behavioral health arena alot, and I was also working with
(02:15):
leaders in that arena, and I wasnoticing a lot of exhaustion.
not quite burnout, but they wereexhausted, so I really wanted to
know more.
And I'm that geek that divesinto neuroscience and all of
those good things.
And that's where that came from.
It's not quite burnout how Idefine the difference between
(02:37):
the two.
And a lot of people said, youknow, compassion fatigue is just
a symptom and a sign.
But how I usually define it isby answering a simple question,
do you still love your job?
If it's yes or yes, but you'rein that.
Borderline of hitting burnout.
But if you say no, like done,then you've hit burnout.
(03:01):
And so, you know, usually when Iwould ask that question, most of
my people were at the yes or theyes, but so how do we then build
in self-care?
What is it that we need to doaround time management and
setting boundaries and all ofthose beautiful things in
reality, when I've only had, Ithink twice.
In the entire time that I'vedone this, and I've done
(03:23):
training around this for oh,close to 20 years now, only been
two times that somebody hassaid, no, I don't love it
anymore, and they were alreadyout the door.
They were leaving, they weredone, and you could see it in
their face.
So what I tried to do is workwith people before they hit that
wall.
Paul (03:41):
What do you think kind of led, what triggered you to be
curious about why people do thethings they do?
Because I find that the.
Usually a moment that, thatpeople go, oh, that was weird.
Why did they just do that?
Or, I wanna know more about, I'mcurious as to why you did that.
What's your curiosity stem fromJudy?
Judy (03:58):
From the time I was a little girl, I would watch
people.
I wasn't the child that ranaround into a store for
shopping, I wasn't that childwho ran around crazy and
everything.
I would find a chair and I wouldwatch people and just see how
they were reacting or theconversations they were having
and theexpressions on theirface.
(04:19):
I can't remember a time in mylife where I wasn't an observer
in some way, shape, or form.
So I was always curious about.
Why people acted or looked, orsaid things the way they said
things, but I never reallyquestioned it.
I just, it was just a part ofwho I was.
I.
It's, I think it's inborn mygrandmother was a nurse.
(04:42):
My mom has been a nurse.
Then she went in and didmanagement in a department
store, so she was out there allthe time, intermingling with
people.
My father owned a bar,restaurant, hotel, so I was
always exposed to people.
So I just think it was justingrained in me from the moment
I was born.
Paul (04:58):
It is.
Well, it's interesting that yousay that though, right?
Because my background is retail.
And I've got a lot of friendswho are in the travel and
tourism and leisure industries,and I find that we intersect on
so many things, and a lot of itstems back to that, that
principle of customer service.
I guess from our side of thingslike that response that I just
got wasn't what I expected.
Why?
How can I make that happenagain?
(05:19):
Or how can I avoid thathappening again?
What was it that we did?
I did the situation, did theenvironment did or whatever.
And yeah I, I.
Come to things from a similarpoint of view.
I'm always curious as to why wedo some crazy things as humans,
and I'm fascinated by what leadsto that happening.
So I, I love that you've kind ofdrawn that back to when you were
(05:39):
a child.
When you were younger then, didyou always envisage that you
would work in somewhere shape orform in the light?
I mean, I, as a child, I'm, I'veno doubt that you didn't want to
sit there and go, well, I wannabe an executive coach.
But did you kind of always knowthat you'd work with people to,
I.
Understand them better.
Has that been a goal for yousince young?
Judy (05:57):
Originally started In nursing as well.
I was following in the footstepsand, but even in high school,
psychology classes, I, I was inthat arena, didn't realize that
was the door I was going to godown eventually and really, you
know, explore that even deeper.
But that's where I got myundergraduate degree was in
(06:17):
counseling and then my.
My master's was in more aroundeducation and special education
and how do we, you know,identify and work with
individuals in different ways.
So from the time, again, from Iwould say high school on, I
always knew I was gonna be ofservice.
was just ingrained in me in someway, shape, or form.
(06:38):
When you look at all of the evenwithin my own family.
a unique way.
Everybody was of service in someway, shape, or form my father's
business.
He then went in and became apostal worker, but he was still
of service to people.
So it was an interesting towatch how my family's arena was
(06:58):
around that piece.
It was, how can we help others?
I.
Whatever light we were in,whether it was, you know, with
my mom, she would joke and teasepeople in the department stores
and just get people to followher and do those types of
things.
With my grandmother, she was ahead nurse, so she took care of
all of the nurses and you know,let's make sure that you're
taking care of yourself just asmuch as you're taking care of
(07:19):
others.
That was just ingrained again.
And so I think it's a beautifulplace to be, to know that your
life is to be of service.
So when I went into coaching, itjust unfolded that way.
I, you know, doors again openedand closed for a reason, and I
was enrolled in and took co, Ihad two coaches myself.
(07:41):
Way before coaching was popular,I was working with coaches and I
loved what was happening withinmyself.
Of how I got away from thatblaming and pointing fingers and
realizing my head was hittingthe wall because it was time for
me to move on, but I wasn'trecognizing those symbol SI
symptoms and signals very well.
(08:03):
And so that's where I was like,oh, what did you do to become
coach?
How did you get certification init?
And that's began that path.
The minute I went down thatpath, the other door closed
because this is where you'resupposed to be going now.
And even in my coaching careerwhere I started as a coach and
where I am today is no way,shape, or form the same I.
(08:24):
It is funny though I think thatso many people that I speak to
who are, who find a passion andan energy in what they do.
Walked a path previously thatmade them a unique fit for what
they now do, for example.
Right.
And part of me wonders, right?
So having worked in thecorporate world myself I never
(08:44):
saw things like neurodiversitycovered from a leadership
capability, right?
It was never even mentioned in15 years.
And I thought we were quite aforward thinking, seriously.
Leadership forecast business.
And now coming out of it Iwonder how much do you feel like
your experiences with behavioraland special needs helped you
(09:09):
identify traits in leaders thatmade you able to reach them when
others perhaps couldn't of,maybe even they couldn't reach
themselves.
You think that's the case?
I that the individuals that Iwork with find me in different
ways.
of the individuals I work with,there's common themes no matter
where you go.
and it's time management, it'ssetting boundaries, delegation.
(09:35):
It's the myth around I have tocontrol and so that's where i
find Micromanagement.
Yeah.
The neuroscience comes into playbecause it's a pattern that we
have within our brain that skipsback.
So I don't know if you're oldenough to remember, but when I
was younger, my sister had analbum record collection like you
(09:58):
wouldn't believe, and she wouldlisten to music all the time.
I remember specifically one dayshe was extremely upset because
the record would only go so farand then it would skip back to
the beginning, and she was sofrustrated with that and she was
seven years older than me, soshe was just like ready to throw
this record across the room.
(10:20):
My saw what was happening and hecame over and he simply put a
penny on the needle.
To help it get through thatgroove so that it continued to
play.
So when I think of neuroscienceand I think of coaching, that
penny on the needle.
For individuals, sometimes Ijust help them see that we don't
(10:42):
have to go back here.
We can actually continue to moveforward on play the rest of the
song out and that's my role, isto just be that penny on the
needle.
I love that analogy.
I love it when people havefound.
A story that means something tothem that really does help
convey their value to otherpeople.
(11:02):
I think that's a beautiful storyand I thank you very much for
sharing that with us.
'cause I'm sure there are peopleout there, you know, a lot of my
audience are also coaches ofsome sort.
And I'm sure that we're all kindof searching for that simple way
to describe what we do.
It's not easy.
So then moving, so I guess.
What was the turning point whenyou moved from being an employee
(11:23):
in business to starting your ownbusiness?
What made you kind of leave thecorporate world and go out on
your own?
Again, doors open and close fora reason.
I was literally taking theclasses what it was to be a
coach and certification incoaching and all of those
beautiful things and what arethe ethics and the components
(11:44):
behind it and all of that.
And I'm a big.
Component of correct andconfidentiality and all of those
pieces.
So as I was doing that, mymother became ill and she had
open heart surgery, melanoma,and pneumonia, all within three
weeks.
I was working.
(12:04):
I, you know, and then thishappened.
And so I literally just tooktime off from work and I worked
at a beautiful place that theygranted that permission.
And I just went and I took careof my mom during that timeframe.
But that also gave me a lot oftime of reflection and
journaling and doing, you know,where do I wanna go next?
And where I was at, there was aplace where it was a funding
(12:27):
stream that ran out.
So I was literally laid off.
Right after about three monthsafter all of that had happened
and I was like, oh, okay.
I guess it's time to start doingthe coaching piece now and still
take care of my mom.
And I joke and say, I inheritedtwo old people and a dog, my mom
and my stepdad and their dog,they all moved in with me
(12:49):
simultaneous.
Like, and so I just was like,oh, this is the perfect time for
me to start this coaching piece.
And that was, you know, whenZoom wasn't popular and people
didn't understand what Zoom was.
I was actually doing Zoom andtrying to educate people on how
to, we could actually see eachother.
We don't have to be on the phoneanymore.
Oh.
And so I was going through allof that.
(13:09):
So that was the journey.
It, we just all unfolded inthose lights and so it was a
great experience.
It was one that I would nevertrade again.
I would always go back and do itall over because it really
helped me become who I am.
Now when I work with leaders andthey get caught up in that, oh
my gosh, how do I take care ofthese individuals?
(13:31):
Priority number one is your ownself care.
I had a beautiful mindfulnessmentor in my life at the time.
And yeah I still work with himand one of the things that he
said was, you have to have yourown well overflowing in order to
be able to care for others.
So analogy I go back to is,here's your fuel tank.
(13:53):
This is full, right?
Where are you at on that fueltank?
And we start going down, ifwe're driving on fumes.
what is it you need to do, startdoing to build in for your own
self care so that you can carenot just for your team or your
family, but you need to care foryourself as well.
(14:14):
And that's one of my biggestmessages when I'm working with
individuals.
There are too many people whotry and spread themselves too
thin, especially in leadership.
You're trying to be everythingto everyone.
You are shielding your peoplefrom things falling from above.
You are shielding yourself fromthings coming up.
From the ground you are caughtin the middle and quite often
leader, like leadership is one,like most people don't
(14:35):
appreciate it, but leadership'sone of the toughest things that
you can do in long term.
And it's both incrediblyrewarding and incredibly tiring
and trying at times at the sametime.
A lot of your focus is aroundthe importance of communication
and compassion in leadership,right?
So is that teaching them thingsthat they don't know or just
kind of unlocking, probablygiving them permission to do the
(14:57):
things that they suspect butdon't really, haven't tried.
Coaching is asking the questionsand asking them where they wanna
go.
more about letting them discoverthat they have the answers
within them, and sometimes it'sjust asking them, have you ever
had a similar situation and whatdid you do?
And learning, oh yeah, wait aminute, if I do some reflection.
(15:21):
I've had a similar situation.
Let me take that tool out, dustit off, sand it off, reshape it
a little bit so that I can reuseit in this way of my time, it's
around difficult conversationsbecause they have to give them
feedback.
So I always ask the question,how did you learn yourself?
You learn by making mistakes.
(15:42):
you by sometimes epic fails.
And part of a leader is havingthe compassion but going down
the rabbit hole of empathy andsympathy too far, and adding an
action step of that's aninteresting problem.
What would you like to do aboutit?
And that helps.
(16:04):
Them realize, wait a minute.
Yeah.
I do have to let my people failevery once in a while, as long
as it's not gonna destroy thecompany.
Let them make those mistakesbecause then they're gonna
remember them and learn and growfrom it.
We've all had to have mistakesin our lives in order to be
where we are now.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
A client of mine put itbeautifully.
He said every morning took hisdaughter out to school and he'd
(16:28):
checked the weather forecast'cause we live in England,
right?
So he'd check the weatherforecast and see whether rain
was forecast or not.
And if it was forecast for rain,he'd tick the umbrella for his
daughter, and.
Eventually she got old enoughthat he thought she was ready to
figure things out for herself,and he trained her to look at
the weather forecast and he'dstart letting her go out on her
own accord with or without theumbrella at her own risk.
(16:49):
And she'd get wet if she got itwrong.
She hadn't checked.
And it taught her a lesson.
But kind of, there's adifference between that.
Paul (16:54):
And you wouldn't let your child step out in front of a
bus.
So there are lessons that youcan.
As a leader, you can let youremployees, your direct reports,
your colleagues take, and youknow that the risks limited and
all is good.
But there are also risks that weneed to protect them from and
educate them from.
Judy (17:12):
And it's understanding that balance between what might
okay with the mistakes being andwhat might, what should we maybe
not let them make those mistakesand walk them through it
together.
So I love that kind of.
Analogy led discussions andprevious experiences.
And it's clear likestorytelling's really important
to you as a person as well.
Right.
I imagine that, and that's, andI can tell that's come from your
(17:33):
family as well, because I canimagine you must have some
amazing stories with theindustries that you've
described.
I know my son gets much as hemight roll his eyes when I tell
them, my son gets a fair shareof stories too.
Like, what was it like?
Growing up in an environmentwhere storytelling was so
important do you feel likeyou've kind of took a lot of
that forward?
(17:53):
I never really gave that muchthought.
It's just a part of me.
And it was just a part of ourfamily, the, like, it was
mandated.
We sat down together at a fam asa family at six o'clock every
single night, and we would shareat least one good thing that
happened to us.
So even before, you know, thescience of gratitude was out
there and all those studies thatwere out there.
(18:14):
My family was doing it, and wedidn't even realize that we were
doing it.
And as I went into those arenasand I was like, oh, you mean
that everybody doesn't do that?
What do you mean that's sounusual?
We always Yeah.
and we always had Yeah.
the dinner table.
I mean, there were, so, therewere serious moments of course,
in our lives, but it, thatmoment was always a.
(18:36):
We're gonna talk about somethingfun.
We're gonna talk about somethinggood.
We're not gonna reflect on dramaor chaos or any of that.
That was for another time.
Dinner time was storytelling andyou're not gonna believe what
happened to me today.
And we would have literally 30minutes of just sitting there
eating and talking, and theneverybody would get up and do
(18:57):
their own thing and go back intowhatever it was they needed to
do.
So, oddly enough, I just alwaysfelt it was.
What everybody was supposed todo.
That leads nicely into aconversation around personal
brand because when I say apersonal brand to a lot of
people, the role, the rise andassume I'm talking about social
media, because for a lot of thetime that is exactly.
What I'm talking about.
But personal brand goes waybeyond that, especially for
(19:19):
executive leaders within abusiness because it's how people
talk about you when you are notthere, right?
It's not just your impact onsocial media, it's how the world
perceives you and treats you andwhat's your advice.
And at a very high level, Iappreciate, we can't, we, we've
only got kind of 10 minutes orso left, but what's your advice
to executive leaders aroundtheir own personal brand within
(19:41):
the workspace?
Leadership in our past world wasaround industrial thinking, so
that was where everybody was at,and that was the old.
that are still out there andthere's nothing wrong with that.
It got the job done, it gotwhere we were.
Today's world, it is more aboutcompassionate leadership.
And compassionate leadership issimply empathy plus action.
(20:04):
So when you're working withindividuals as a leader, it's
more about.
into and coaching, usingcoaching skills with them and
using mentoring skills with themand helping them and empowering
them.
It's not walking in and beingthat old micromanager who told
you what to do, how to do it,and when to do it by, because
(20:24):
that's, that doesn't apply intoday's world in any way, shape
or form.
Yeah.
what industry you're in, youhave to have that compassionate
piece.
That's why when I talk to peopleand I say, my tagline is
communication plus compassion.
equals for today's world andworkforce.
are the components that I workwith a lot around individuals
(20:46):
and leaders is what is it?
When you think about compassion,why do you roll your eyes all of
a sudden?
What does that mean for you?
Oh, let's redefine and look whatis really compassion?
It's an act of kindness.
It's a simple way of saying goodjob.
I actually did a leadershiptraining probably about six,
seven years ago now within anindustry of and only two women
(21:10):
were in the room.
And I asked the question, whenwas the last time you said thank
you for something?
And I had one of those olderindividuals and he was like, oh,
they should know they're doing agood job.
And I simply said.
Why is that?
Are they psychic?
Have you asked them what theyneed from you for recognition,
appreciation, or what motivatesthem as an individual?
(21:33):
'cause you can't motivate them.
That has to come internally fromthem.
Once I asked him that question,I was like, when was this?
Like, seriously, when was thelast time you said thank you to
anybody?
He came back two weeks later inthe next class in, training that
we were doing.
I wasn't working with him as acoach, it was just as a trainer.
And he said, you know, I saidthank you to somebody, and I,
(21:54):
they almost fell over.
So we looked at it and I waslike, yeah, that's it.
That's the key.
That's the one question Iusually ask my leaders too, is
have you had that conversationabout what people need from you
for recognition andappreciation?
Because everybody's different.
Everybody's unique when it comesto that, and there's two
(22:16):
different pieces to recognitionand there's two different pieces
to re appreciation andrecognition is simply that.
It could be a little post-itnote that says, thank you, I
appreciate you, or it could begoing out and having lunch with
people.
I used to joke and tell people,don't give me an award.
I just found a drawer full of'em, and I don't know what to do
with them.
(22:37):
They're not on my walls,obviously.
They're not out there.
That's not who I am as anindividual.
boy, when my director that Iworked with at the time, or even
the CEO of the company came inand said, wow, you've got a lot
on your plate.
Let's work together to get thisoff your plate.
If you had me for life, Iwould've stayed there for as
(22:58):
long as I possibly could workwith them.
That was my need forappreciation and recognition.
You see how hard I'm working.
other it's, you know, it's let'sgo have lunch and have a
conversation.
You really care about them.
You wanna have a talk, you wannaconvers, you know, find out
what's going on in their life.
(23:18):
that's what I ask individualsis, when was the last time you
asked your people how do youwant communication?
Do you want texts?
Do you want emails?
What is it that works best foryou?
Some people still like thephone, oddly enough, so that's
one, two.
what is it it they needp fromyou for recognition and
appreciation that helps motivatethem then internally you'll have
(23:42):
individuals that work with you.
Being transparent doesn't meanthat you have to tell'em all the
ins and outs.
It simply means human let's worktogether.
Do you find that when you'veworked with a leader and they've
start to transform the way thatthey work with their employees
and within their business?
That, that then reflects on theoutside as well.
(24:02):
So obviously I look ateverything from a marketing
perspective and from an outsidein perspective.
Do you find that's then obviousthat there's been a change in
philosophy of change, in think,and a strategy and that people
feel more appreciated or workingtogether better?
Definitely there's a rippleeffect.
That's how I look at it.
We're throwing the stone intothe water.
(24:23):
And when you look at it, there'san immediate surge, but as you
watch, it ripples out furtherand further.
So there is that ripple effect.
And actually, that was my wordabout three years ago.
I pick a word every year me toreflect on.
And that was my word three yearsago.
And it was interesting to watchthe ripple effect.
coaching individuals thenthey're working with
(24:46):
individuals, what happens withintheir teams.
It's a great thing to see happenyou're working with a leader of
a team and then you actuallywork with their team as well.
There's that even bigger rippleeffect that you have.
One of the best examples I cangive you is I was working with a
(25:06):
gentleman and.
He was a manager his company.
He was also a personal trainerand he was also a dad.
And that's how he came to me.
He was very segmented and Ialways tell people, I deal with
you as a whole person.
I've never met a piece of a pie.
There's not a segment to you,you are a whole person.
(25:29):
So when we work together.
was Yep.
with a piece at his work, nothis personal training side, and
he was like, I'm just reallystruggling with this.
And I said, let me stop and askyou.
If you were working somebodywith somebody as a personal
trainer, what would you do inthat situation?
Well, I did da.
(25:50):
Oh, and you literally saw thedots getting connected and he
was like.
I could do that with thisindividual.
I said, 100%, let's try it.
So that was his beautiful part.
He literally saw what he dideven at home, you know, and then
the dots even got even furtherProject management isn't just at
(26:12):
work.
Project management.
Think about it, when you were achild, probably had a chore list
in some way, shape, or form.
That was the beginning ofproject management for you.
A great way of talking aboutthings.
I quite often, I get people cometo me.
For my day job.
And they're conflicted becausethey perhaps run two or three
businesses in various ways, likevarious levels of involvement.
(26:33):
Plus, like you say, they've gottheir own personal personality.
You know, I'm a dad, I'm ahusband, I'm a wife, whatever.
And they're struggling to, howdo I represent all of these
brands through one social mediaaccount?
And my honest answer at the backto them is always just be
yourself.
Like.
Be the expert that you are andtrust that people will find who
(26:56):
you are.
They'll align with you.
They'll match your energy levelsand theater themselves will
become curious and find theparts of your businesses that
they need to find as a result ofyou being your central self.
Not trying to be founder of thiscompany one day and then founder
of that company the next, andthen dad on the weekends.
We're just ourselves.
That's all any of us can everbe, so I love that.
(27:20):
From your perspective matcheswith the way that you are
working with your clients fromthe inside as well.
Because like I said, personalbrand extends way beyond social
media.
It's not a social media conceptor a construct.
It is.
We all have a personal brand,whether we like it or not and
how we are perceived when we'renot in the room, but me, by my
son, some dear by clients, butother dear work, colleagues,
(27:42):
partners, whoever, we need tohave a, we need to spend some
time.
Identifying what that personalbrand want needs to be for us
and work towards making it thething that it needs to be in our
head because we're probably notwhere we want to be, right.
For most of us.
Here's that something you see alot of.
just keep in the back of yourown mind is you take you with
(28:03):
you wherever you go.
So when you're looking at thatand you put it in that way,
being your authentic self, nomatter what situation you're in,
people are gonna recognize whenyou're being authentic and when
you're not.
So I always just say to myselfas I'm going out into the world,
I'm taking me with me wherever Igo.
(28:25):
What a great sentiment to endthe show on.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
To Judy, to do, Judy, I'vereally enjoyed the conversation.
And I hope you have too peoplewatching along at home or
listening along, if you're onaudio.
Thank you very much for givingyour time today to join us for
today's episode.
I'm sure you've also enjoyed it.
Judy, if people wanna reach out,you know, perhaps you've hit
some notes with some people outthere who might wanna find out a
(28:46):
bit more about your work and howthey could maybe work with you.
What's the best way for them toreach you?
just my name, judy mccauley.com,or they can connect with me on
LinkedIn.
It's a beautiful place toconnect on.
I'll make sure both those linksare in the show notes as well.
So nobody has to work hard tofind any either of those.
So thank you very much, Judy.
Appreciate your time and I hopeyou have a lovely week.
Bye-bye.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.