September 10, 2025 • 26 mins
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This is the sales episode you didn’t know you needed.
Anthony Solimini joins us on MarketPulse: Pros & Pioneers to dismantle everything you think you know about selling. With a career that spans global banking, high-stakes sales training, and stand-up comedy, Anthony brings unmatched insight into how people actually connect, trust, and buy.
In this episode, you'll learn why humour is a superpower in sales, how slowing down can speed up your close rate, and why product pitches fail more often than they land. From launching the first Sandler franchise in Asia to performing on Comedy Central, Anthony shares the mindset, strategy, and cultural understanding that’s made him one of the most respected names in sales coaching.
If you're tired of pushy sales tactics and one-size-fits-all scripts, this conversation offers a blueprint for selling with confidence, empathy, and authenticity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
Sales isn't about slick pitches, it's about
(00:04):
understanding people.
Anthony Solimini, ex-banker,turned sales trainer and standup
comedian shares why humor andpsychology make you a better
closer.
Anthony's an executive salescoach, keynote speaker, and a
former banker with a careerspanning over three decades in
sales.
(00:24):
Leadership and communication.
As the founder of AGS training,he's trained thousands of sales
professionals worldwide fromHong Kong to the us helping them
refine their messaging,negotiation skills, and customer
relationships.
Anthony also owned the SandlerSales Institute Master Franchise
in Hong Kong, where werevolutionized sales training
(00:44):
across the Asia Pacific.
Outside the business world, hehas a second life as a standup
comedian, having performed onComedy Central and alongside top
comedians like Tom Segura.
Whether on stage or in theboardroom, Anthony's mission is
to make sales training engaging,practical, and most importantly
effective.
Anthony, welcome to the show.
Anthony (01:06):
Thank you very much, Paul.
Pleasure to be here.
Paul (01:08):
You do.
You know what, we've had somefascinating backgrounds for
people on the show We've hadeverybody from magicians to
Guinness World Record holders.
I think you are the first form.
Well, I was gonna say formercomedian, but it's not even
former, is it?
Right.
You're still work on the standupside of things as well.
Anthony (01:24):
still working, producing shows here and
Paul (01:27):
running
Anthony (01:28):
comedy contests and performing whenever I can.
Yeah, it's it's, it became apassion.
I.
Paul (01:33):
That is truly interesting and fascinating at the same
time.
We're gonna delve into that in alittle bit.
But if I can rewind back on yourstory, because season two for
this show is all about howpeople got where they are and
the fact that whilst we mightnot have ended up where we
intended, we are definitelywhere we are meant to be.
And I think that's true of allof our guests so far.
Anthony (01:54):
Yep.
Paul (01:55):
so the banking world, then.
Why and how did you get intobanking?
Anthony (01:59):
Good Question.
I kind of got into it byaccident, if you will, and then
it kind of consumed me, kindalike comedy.
I got out of university andanyone else, you've gotta decide
what you want to do.
And was just doing differentjobs here and there and got
into, did some work in somemultinational companies, not
(02:20):
financial services.
Did some it work way back whenlong before the technology we
have today.
And I was very fortunate to geta job at my first job at a bank.
I got a job at the FirstNational Bank of Boston in
Boston, Massachusetts, where I'mfrom, it wasn't a sales and
business development role, whichIF which I ended up.
(02:42):
I'm spending most of my careerin.
I did some work in audit and inIT and various parts of the bank
to learn the business, which wasvery helpful for me and really
found my passion.
And when I got into banking, Irealized that I wanted to get
more on the business side andget into the sales and marketing
side.
(03:02):
I also knew I was a gypsy forsome reason in the black sheep
of my family and wanted to liveoverseas.
Or at least travel as much as Icould.
So when I was working for theFirst National Bank of Boston, I
had the great opportunity to goto London way back when for a
business trip and spend threemonths there.
And that really got under myskin and I started planting the
(03:22):
seeds and sure enough, I wentback to Boston and within eight
months later I had relocated toLondon, which really kicked off
my 30 year international career.
And once I got to London and inthe banking world, it just, you
know, back then, especiallybanking still very, lots of
(03:43):
great opportunities, lots ofgrowth as long as you wanted it.
And that's, yeah.
So then from London, that tookme to a 30 year international
career and worked a few yearsand got into the sales side,
which is really what I wanted todo.
And that's when my career reallytook off.
Paul (03:58):
So you've moved from banking to running a Sandler
sales franchise in Hong Kong.
I can't imagine that's afrequent career path for many
people.
What was the moment that madeyou realize sales training was
where you wanted to be?
I.
Anthony (04:12):
Yeah.
So when I got into sales youknow, I always had the gift of
gab and the communication, andDeb, very much a, an extrovert
on the Myers-Briggs in whateverform you extreme extrovert.
And I get my energy and my pulsefrom people and being in groups.
And when I got into salesrealized, so I did very well in
financial services and, youknow, got into the business
(04:35):
development side.
I think living in Hong Kong forthose years back then, I also
got the entrepreneurial bug.
As you know, Hong Kong is a veryentrepreneurial, crazy
environment and everybody hasbusinesses and everything else.
I realized I was very, not onlywas I very good at sales, but I
realized I was good at helpingmy colleagues and really
coaching people that weren'tperforming.
(04:56):
I got into leadership.
I decided I wanted to try to bean entrepreneur.
I put aside, my wife and I, weput aside a chunk of money.
I said, I'm gonna do this for 12months.
And I came across, I wanted tobe a sales trainer and a sales
coach, but I knew in Asia backthen, it was still very much in
its infancy or at least Sandler.
Sandler hadn't had nothing inAsia, so I flew to the US and
(05:18):
met them realized.
If you're gonna start a burgerjoint, it would be easier to buy
a McDonald's than have Anthony'sburgers on the street corner on
the high street.
So I met with Sandler.
They loved me, I loved them.
And I ended up buying the firstfranchise in Asia Pacific, which
was my path into coaching andconsulting and training.
Paul (05:38):
What was the, I mean I mean the first Sandler franchise
in Asia Pacific is like, that'sphenomenal.
I mean, when you consider thesize of the market that they
have now what was the biggestchallenge that you found in
introducing that kind of newsales methodology into that
Asian market then?
Anthony (05:55):
Yeah, first it, you know, the good thing is we did
have some brand awareness.
'cause Sandler had never hadoffices there when I bought the
franchise, but they hadobviously done training there
through flying in and out fromthe us.
But the biggest challenge reallyusing this Sandler to me is one
of the best platforms andmethodologies out there because
Paul (06:14):
its
Anthony (06:14):
not as much a process as it is about communication and
really getting into yourclient's heads, not pushing the
sale, not pushing product, butit does require a lot of role
playing and feedback that can bequite direct.
And the culture in Asia was verydifferent than it is like, for
example, here in the US or uk,when you can tell someone
(06:36):
straight to the face.
So it was a little slow on theupstart, but.
Using my own methodologies andskills, there is a way to
balance that out where you canactually be productive and give
great feedback without making itseem that you're being
aggressive or rude.
But that was probably thebiggest challenge was, you know,
(06:56):
Sandler is very much aboutpractice, and making sure you go
into meetings prepared.
But to do that, like anythingelse.
You've gotta be, someone has tobe giving you feedback.
Kind of like when I just startedcomedy my first couple of years
I was terrible.
And if you got off stage andcouldn't handle feedback, well
you're gonna, you're in thewrong industry.
'cause comedians love giving youfeedback, especially when you're
(07:17):
terrible.
was really the biggest challengewas getting those cultural
differences coming across thosecultural differences.
Paul (07:25):
So then comedy, where in this journey did comedy come
into things?
'cause that for me is probablythe most fascinating part of the
story.
I.
Anthony (07:33):
Yeah, great.
Great question.
And I've always been, even inhigh school and in, in college,
in university, I, I was doingfun little theaters and plays
and things like that, and Ialways felt comfortable and
confident and really kind ofenjoyed that, but it was never
anything really that I tookseriously.
It was just.
(07:53):
You know, you're in high school,a university, somebody's having
a play, you just have a bit offun.
But standup comedy in the li inthe eighties and nineties,
standup comedy in Boston reallytook off like a bat outta hell.
I mean, it was even bigger thanNew York back then.
New York was saturated.
A lot of comedians moved toBoston and I.
was going to comedy clubs almostevery weekend.
(08:13):
And any free time I had, I wasgoing with my friends and my
sisters and.
I just had a I just loved comedyTo this day, I listen to comedy
in my car, comedy at home.
I don't listen to music.
so 2009 New Yorker, he was anAmerican born Chinese and a New
Yorker comedian His family wasoriginally from Hong Kong and he
(08:34):
still had his mother livingthere part-time between New York
and Hong Kong.
So he moved to Hong Kong andopened literally the first
standup comedy club.
In Asia Pacific, his name'sJamie Gong, and the club is
takeout comedy with littlechopsticks like takeout.
He literally, when he startedwell actually the club started
in 2007.
I was a couple of year, I wasabout a year and a half after he
(08:57):
opened when I did my first show.
I mean, he would literally havepeople calling saying, it's
standup comedy.
Does that mean there's nochairs?
You know, like, we have to standup while we're watching it.
And he had a passion to bringcomedy to Asia Pacific.
And then I had read an article.
In the newspaper about him andhe was offering a course.
And at the time I still had theSandler, you know, I was still
(09:18):
doing Sandler franchise and allthat.
And I thought, what a great wayto differentiate myself from
other consultants by saying I dostandup comedy because I.
You can get on stage, you canhandle anything in sales, right?
You're getting on stage withjust a microphone.
So I took Jamie's class, and tothis day, we're best friends and
I've been doing it ever since,from open mics to performing all
(09:41):
over Asia.
I performed in London at acomedy club there and now I
perform regularly here.
it was something, when you findthe passion of something you
love you can't get enough of it.
And What it did is made myconsulting better'cause people
wanted to be in the room.
'cause I made it fun andengaging and between that and
(10:02):
sales and everything else.
Comedy just changed my life andit really did in a positive way.
I.
Paul (10:08):
I often tell people that they can differentiate
themselves in any given spacewithout having to put on big
floppy clown shoes.
But I guess what you did was puton the big floppy clown shoes,
right?
Like almo, almost exactly that,that it's fascinating.
I imagine you had someinteresting conversations with
your old banking colleagues as aresult.
Anthony (10:29):
Well, not only did I have some interesting
conversations I got quite a fewof them into my world as well.
And not all of them, but I didget a few, you know, one of my
best friends he's actuallyBritish, but from London, just
moved back to London from HongKong after many years.
He's a trader, very big financeguy.
One of my dear friends hestarted doing it around the time
(10:51):
I did, and he was hooked aswell.
And now he's been doing it allover Asia.
Now he's back in London only afew months ago.
And I'm sure he will continuethe faith as well.
And, you know, I, what I love isbringing people that always
dreamed about doing it to thestage.
I just did a I just helped afriend here.
I have a dear friend in Phoenix.
of his friends who I didn't knowwas in stage four cancer and
(11:14):
sadly is in hospice.
And his dream in life was to doa standup comedy routine.
about a month ago, I helpedcoach I.
My friend who then helped himcoach his friend, and guy ended
up getting on stage and I'mgetting the goosebumps talking
about it because he justfulfilled a dream.
So the amount of people thatwhen I hear I'm a comedian say,
(11:35):
you know, I've always kind ofthought about doing that.
And you coach, I had my niecewho was 19 at the time, she got
on stage and did a 10 minutecomedy routine.
I helped her with a few jokes.
She wrote her own.
And when she got off stage, itwas as if her whole world lit
up.
Because if you can do that atthe age of 19 in a dark room
with people you don't know, man,your confidence goes off the
(11:56):
charts.
And when people hear, I'm acomedian, that's all they want
to talk about.
So what better way to do a run abusiness and be a sales trainer
and coach?
'cause if I can do that, man,cold calling and prospecting is
pretty easy.
Paul (12:10):
So, yes.
Everyone watching at home, itturns out that bankers and
people involved in the financialindustry can be funny.
But Nobody knew.
Nobody knew.
Well, thank you very much foreducating us today.
It's a,
Anthony (12:22):
Yeah, it can help.
It can hurt it.
It can happen.
Paul (12:26):
of all the backgrounds that I would pick for to
transfer well into comedy.
That is absolutely the back ofthe queue for me.
Amazing.
And then I guess bringing thecomedy and the sales chain
together, you've worked acrosslots of, like lots of different
cultures from the US down toEurope, across to Hong Kong.
Anthony (12:46):
Yeah.
Paul (12:48):
what's some of the biggest differences you've seen in how
people approach sales and kindof the universal truths?
How do they hold out acrossdifferent cultures?
Anthony (12:57):
Yeah, there.
You know, it's a great questionand I've learned that there are
different cultures.
There's no question whetheryou're, whether I'm doing
business in Japan or Taiwan orSingapore, it, they're all very
different in and of themselves.
I.
and that's where a lot of thecultural training comes in
where, and I've done a lot ofthat where I'm training an
American or Brit who just movedto Hong Kong and all of a sudden
(13:19):
is dealing with mainland China.
And I think the culturaldifferences you need to
understand, for example, inAmerica, in the uk, it's a
little bit more fast.
You can get down to businessstraight away.
the cultural differences in Asiaare obviously slowed down.
You know, this is more of apersonal you, it's not personal,
but it's more of a relationship.
We'll get to business when thetime is right.
(13:40):
So those are the culturaldifferences.
But one thing is for sure, I.
No matter where you are in theworld, people wanna feel
comfortable when they're talkingto you.
They don't want to feelthreatened, they don't want to
feel under pressure.
I'll do a little self brag here,but one of my first books was
called Trust, comfort, andConfidence.
Three words That'll Change theWay You Sell.
(14:01):
And I came up with those threewords because I kind of did a
training program on the, on atriangle that said, if you only
have one or two out of thosethree.
You're not gonna be assuccessful.
'cause we all know there'speople you would trust with your
life, but you may not want to,you just don't have any comfort
around them.
They're too pushy or they're toosomething.
(14:22):
Or there's people where you lovebeing around them.
They're dear friends.
You have confidence in theirabilities, but you just don't
trust them for some reason.
Right?
There's that element of doubt.
So what humor and not justhumor, but what understanding
your audience and reading aroom, what that does for you is
really.
Like in comedy, you have to readthe room within 10 seconds,
(14:43):
right?
What type of room am I in?
Is it more, are they loud?
Are they shouting?
Are they quiet?
Are they reserved?
Is it an elderly crowd?
Is it a young crowd?
Sales is the same way.
If I was selling to you, Paul,I'm gonna look at your body
language, the words you use.
Do you use your hands?
Are you you know, I need to bethinking and processing that all
(15:04):
the time.
So when I respond to you, it'sin a style that makes you feel
comfortable.
For example, I don't know ifyou've ever done the DISC
profile or disc assessments.
I'm a very high d I'm very, I.
Assertive.
I'm very confident.
I'm very quick to rush and makedecisions with my gut.
I was selling to someone like mywife, for example, who's more
(15:27):
rational and detailed andlogical, if I sell to her in my
style there's gonna be a majordisconnect.
But if I can intuitively in oneor two minutes realize, Hey,
this person is more detailed,and change my pitch.
She's gonna feel morecomfortable with me and not as
threatened as someone who istrying to push things down her
throat.
So the comedy and theunderstanding of that human
(15:49):
dynamic has just helped me, notonly in sales, but every aspect
of life.
You know, people at work, I'm ina new job here, it's only been
six months.
I'm like the office whereeverybody wants to hang out in
because they just know that theyfeel comfortable around me.
They trust me.
They know that I have no hiddenagenda.
And when you have peoplegenuinely like that, you want to
(16:10):
be around them.
It's infectious.
And in sales, people are gonnagive you more business because
they want to be around you.
And that's where getting, youknow, it's not about higher
price or whatever, it's, I'mgonna do business with people
that are.
Like me, I trust, I feelcomfortable around.
'cause when you sell something,you're gonna be around them for
a long time.
Right.
And you just want to be aroundthat person and know they're
(16:31):
gonna be there for you.
Paul (16:32):
So.
With that in mind, you bringhumor into your training.
And I'd love to understand alittle bit more about how you
bring that humor into thetraining.
But before we get to that, likehow can business owners and
sales teams use humor themselvesstrategically to build those
relationships?
'cause you are talking aboutdoing that yourself, like, how
can we take lessons from whatyou've done there to implement
(16:53):
at home?
Anthony (16:54):
It's a great question.
And you know, I think for me,what the first sign that banking
may have been, lightning up alittle bit.
You remember the Dilbertcharacter.
And you know, the first sign wayback when was when banks, you
know, people started sharingcopies of Dilbert cartoons and
lightning up the mood.
But I wanna say that by usinghumor, I don't mean that I'm
(17:15):
cracking jokes, right?
what I mean is I'm not takingmyself or life so seriously,
right?
Life is too short whether you'rein banking it, whether you're
selling a service consulting.
We're not, you know, we're notcuring cancer, my friend, we're
just two people trying to dobusiness together, make sense of
(17:37):
it and make some money and besuccessful.
So really what I talk abouthumor is, I mean, just don't
take yourself so seriously.
Right.
We're not, you know, you've seensome people, they're in sales
meetings and they're dressed andthey've got their tie, and
they've got their notepad.
in and have a conversation.
Like, I'm talking to you.
If there's a, you know, I use alot of self-deprecating, I'll
(17:58):
make fun of myself, I'll makefun of my company in a fun way
that gets people saying, youknow what?
This guy has a good outlook onlife.
I'm gonna at least hear what hehas to say.
So I'm not talking about jokes.
I'm talking about.
yourself and life less seriouslyand lighten up the mood.
Put a little levity in thesituation and you'd be surprised
(18:19):
how people will just want toopen up and talk to you.
All of us in our heads, we havegood examples of good things in
sales, good things in business,bad, maybe an article you read,
maybe a story you heard fromanother comedian.
So I talk more about the powerof stories and lightening up.
And not taking yourself soseriously.
And what ends up happening, thewalls come down with whoever
(18:41):
you're speaking to, and thatlevel of trust and comfort, they
kind of want to be around you.
So it's not as much tellingjokes, it's more just being
lighthearted, making fun ofyourself, making fun of a
current situation and justtaking yourself a little bit
more lightly than you would.
Some people get very serious andit just ruins the mood.
Paul (19:01):
I remember reading some research by gong.io a while
back, which was that when youswear after a prospect has sworn
on a call and you reciprocate ina similar manner with the
swearing, the trust level goesthrough the roof and the sales,
I can't remember the exactpercentage, but the likelihood
for conversion goes through theroof because you've shared that
(19:22):
moment together.
Obviously they've got to swearfirst.
It's gotta be permission based,right?
Like you lead by example, notgoing in all guns blazing.
But I think the same is truefor, you know, making people
smile.
you make someone smile.
They remember how you made themfeel.
And I think that is the key partthat, so to your point, so many
salespeople forget all aboutbecause it's all about being in
(19:43):
the VIP club and the President'sClub and all of these like,
fine.
But unless we're having funwhile we get there and while
we're enjoying ourselves andhelping other people enjoy their
sometimes very dull lives.
Anthony (19:55):
Yeah, and if you look at, you know, people I meet
after a long time or people Iused to work with or that worked
for me they don't remember asmuch about the business, but
they remember how I made themfeel and how I made them laugh,
and how I took a serioussituation and made it
lighthearted.
And coach them through somethingthat was a very difficult time.
And getting back to what yousaid about the swearing and
(20:15):
building trust, one of thethings we talk about it, there's
something called neurolinguisticprogramming, which I've studied
a lot.
It's NLP and there's a termcalled mirroring and matching
where you don't wanna mimicsomeone and let you know if they
put their hand up, you put yourhand up.
But.
The pace with which someone isspeaking, the amount of humor
they use, the amount of swearingthey use how animated they are
(20:39):
and how dynamic they are.
If you can mirror and match alittle bit, you're gonna have
synchronicity and you're gonnacommunicate so much better and
they're gonna walk away saying,I don't know what it was about
Anthony, but man, I really feltcomfortable talking to him.
Paul (20:53):
I think we're so aligned, Anthony, I've really enjoyed the
conversation before.
Before we bring everything to a,to an end for today's episode,
kind of one outdated sales andmarket and technique that you
wish businesses would just stopusing immediately?
What's what
Anthony (21:07):
yeah, it's the, a lot of businesses to this day are
spending so much time on theproduct pitch and what the
product can do and how greatthey are.
I remember when I first joinedHSBC, I, you know, they were,
each one of their proposals, thefirst 10 pages would be how
wonderful HSBC was.
(21:28):
And we're 150 years old and wewere started in Scotland, and
we, those days are over.
No one cares about your company.
They care about what yourcompany can do for them.
But here's the challenge, andI'll leave you with one thing
that has taught me the most.
The only person.
That knows what it's gonna taketo sell you.
Something is you, and that dataand information is in your head.
(21:53):
Clients go in and especially ifyou've been in an industry a
long time, when I was in bankingafter 20 years, I'd go in and
I'd say, well, I'm meeting theCFO of a company.
I know exactly what they need.
That assumption has killed moredeals than anything I've ever
seen in my life.
But you know, Sandler waswonderful.
Most salespeople spend 20% oftheir time trying to understand
(22:16):
the client, and 80% pitching asolution that has to be switched
around 80% of the time should bespent on dialogue and
understanding and relationship.
And what's really motivatingyou?
What's your challenge?
What do you what do you look forin the next year?
What's gonna make thisrelationship a success?
Imagine if you went into adoctor.
(22:37):
You said you have a sore arm andwithin 10 seconds they said, you
know what?
I think we need to amputate yourarm.
That is what doing sales in arushed manner is like you, the
doctor is gonna spend most ofthe time understanding the real
problem, and once he understandsit, then he gives you the
solution.
Salespeople need to slow down.
(22:58):
Ask more questions.
Ask more questions.
Reconfirm the questions, andonly when you've heard from the
client exactly what they want.
You present a solution.
If you do it prematurely, youare becoming a pushy product
salesperson.
And then you give all of us abad name.
Take your time, slow down,understand, present what they
(23:20):
want, and that's the goldenticket.
Paul (23:23):
Some absolute gems of wisdom in today's episode.
Thank you very much for comingalong and putting a smile on my
face
Anthony (23:29):
Absolutely.
Paul (23:31):
I appreciate it
Anthony (23:31):
Yeah.
This has been wonderful.
I appreciate your time.
Paul (23:34):
and thank you.
And thank you at home for comingalong and watching the episode
or listening to us wherever,however you are consuming the
episode, it is reallyappreciated.
if you know somebody you want tobe a guest on the show in the
future, or or you've got sometopics that you'd like us to
cover we'll absolutely go outour way, find those for you.
And special thanks to ourcharity partners for the episode
(23:56):
for the series.
ADHD Liberty, who are fightingthe skill to prison pipeline for
ADHD and neurodiverseindividuals.
Anthony, thank you very
Anthony (24:06):
Paul.
Thank you so much.
Best of luck.
Sales isn't about slick pitches, it's about
(00:04):
understanding people.
Anthony Solimini, ex-banker,turned sales trainer and standup
comedian shares why humor andpsychology make you a better
closer.
Anthony's an executive salescoach, keynote speaker, and a
former banker with a careerspanning over three decades in
sales.
(00:24):
Leadership and communication.
As the founder of AGS training,he's trained thousands of sales
professionals worldwide fromHong Kong to the us helping them
refine their messaging,negotiation skills, and customer
relationships.
Anthony also owned the SandlerSales Institute Master Franchise
in Hong Kong, where werevolutionized sales training
(00:44):
across the Asia Pacific.
Outside the business world, hehas a second life as a standup
comedian, having performed onComedy Central and alongside top
comedians like Tom Segura.
Whether on stage or in theboardroom, Anthony's mission is
to make sales training engaging,practical, and most importantly
effective.
Anthony, welcome to the show.
Anthony (01:06):
Thank you very much, Paul.
Pleasure to be here.
Paul (01:08):
You do.
You know what, we've had somefascinating backgrounds for
people on the show We've hadeverybody from magicians to
Guinness World Record holders.
I think you are the first form.
Well, I was gonna say formercomedian, but it's not even
former, is it?
Right.
You're still work on the standupside of things as well.
Anthony (01:24):
still working, producing shows here and
Paul (01:27):
running
Anthony (01:28):
comedy contests and performing whenever I can.
Yeah, it's it's, it became apassion.
I.
Paul (01:33):
That is truly interesting and fascinating at the same
time.
We're gonna delve into that in alittle bit.
But if I can rewind back on yourstory, because season two for
this show is all about howpeople got where they are and
the fact that whilst we mightnot have ended up where we
intended, we are definitelywhere we are meant to be.
And I think that's true of allof our guests so far.
Anthony (01:54):
Yep.
Paul (01:55):
so the banking world, then.
Why and how did you get intobanking?
Anthony (01:59):
Good Question.
I kind of got into it byaccident, if you will, and then
it kind of consumed me, kindalike comedy.
I got out of university andanyone else, you've gotta decide
what you want to do.
And was just doing differentjobs here and there and got
into, did some work in somemultinational companies, not
(02:20):
financial services.
Did some it work way back whenlong before the technology we
have today.
And I was very fortunate to geta job at my first job at a bank.
I got a job at the FirstNational Bank of Boston in
Boston, Massachusetts, where I'mfrom, it wasn't a sales and
business development role, whichIF which I ended up.
(02:42):
I'm spending most of my careerin.
I did some work in audit and inIT and various parts of the bank
to learn the business, which wasvery helpful for me and really
found my passion.
And when I got into banking, Irealized that I wanted to get
more on the business side andget into the sales and marketing
side.
(03:02):
I also knew I was a gypsy forsome reason in the black sheep
of my family and wanted to liveoverseas.
Or at least travel as much as Icould.
So when I was working for theFirst National Bank of Boston, I
had the great opportunity to goto London way back when for a
business trip and spend threemonths there.
And that really got under myskin and I started planting the
(03:22):
seeds and sure enough, I wentback to Boston and within eight
months later I had relocated toLondon, which really kicked off
my 30 year international career.
And once I got to London and inthe banking world, it just, you
know, back then, especiallybanking still very, lots of
(03:43):
great opportunities, lots ofgrowth as long as you wanted it.
And that's, yeah.
So then from London, that tookme to a 30 year international
career and worked a few yearsand got into the sales side,
which is really what I wanted todo.
And that's when my career reallytook off.
Paul (03:58):
So you've moved from banking to running a Sandler
sales franchise in Hong Kong.
I can't imagine that's afrequent career path for many
people.
What was the moment that madeyou realize sales training was
where you wanted to be?
I.
Anthony (04:12):
Yeah.
So when I got into sales youknow, I always had the gift of
gab and the communication, andDeb, very much a, an extrovert
on the Myers-Briggs in whateverform you extreme extrovert.
And I get my energy and my pulsefrom people and being in groups.
And when I got into salesrealized, so I did very well in
financial services and, youknow, got into the business
(04:35):
development side.
I think living in Hong Kong forthose years back then, I also
got the entrepreneurial bug.
As you know, Hong Kong is a veryentrepreneurial, crazy
environment and everybody hasbusinesses and everything else.
I realized I was very, not onlywas I very good at sales, but I
realized I was good at helpingmy colleagues and really
coaching people that weren'tperforming.
(04:56):
I got into leadership.
I decided I wanted to try to bean entrepreneur.
I put aside, my wife and I, weput aside a chunk of money.
I said, I'm gonna do this for 12months.
And I came across, I wanted tobe a sales trainer and a sales
coach, but I knew in Asia backthen, it was still very much in
its infancy or at least Sandler.
Sandler hadn't had nothing inAsia, so I flew to the US and
(05:18):
met them realized.
If you're gonna start a burgerjoint, it would be easier to buy
a McDonald's than have Anthony'sburgers on the street corner on
the high street.
So I met with Sandler.
They loved me, I loved them.
And I ended up buying the firstfranchise in Asia Pacific, which
was my path into coaching andconsulting and training.
Paul (05:38):
What was the, I mean I mean the first Sandler franchise
in Asia Pacific is like, that'sphenomenal.
I mean, when you consider thesize of the market that they
have now what was the biggestchallenge that you found in
introducing that kind of newsales methodology into that
Asian market then?
Anthony (05:55):
Yeah, first it, you know, the good thing is we did
have some brand awareness.
'cause Sandler had never hadoffices there when I bought the
franchise, but they hadobviously done training there
through flying in and out fromthe us.
But the biggest challenge reallyusing this Sandler to me is one
of the best platforms andmethodologies out there because
Paul (06:14):
its
Anthony (06:14):
not as much a process as it is about communication and
really getting into yourclient's heads, not pushing the
sale, not pushing product, butit does require a lot of role
playing and feedback that can bequite direct.
And the culture in Asia was verydifferent than it is like, for
example, here in the US or uk,when you can tell someone
(06:36):
straight to the face.
So it was a little slow on theupstart, but.
Using my own methodologies andskills, there is a way to
balance that out where you canactually be productive and give
great feedback without making itseem that you're being
aggressive or rude.
But that was probably thebiggest challenge was, you know,
(06:56):
Sandler is very much aboutpractice, and making sure you go
into meetings prepared.
But to do that, like anythingelse.
You've gotta be, someone has tobe giving you feedback.
Kind of like when I just startedcomedy my first couple of years
I was terrible.
And if you got off stage andcouldn't handle feedback, well
you're gonna, you're in thewrong industry.
'cause comedians love giving youfeedback, especially when you're
(07:17):
terrible.
was really the biggest challengewas getting those cultural
differences coming across thosecultural differences.
Paul (07:25):
So then comedy, where in this journey did comedy come
into things?
'cause that for me is probablythe most fascinating part of the
story.
I.
Anthony (07:33):
Yeah, great.
Great question.
And I've always been, even inhigh school and in, in college,
in university, I, I was doingfun little theaters and plays
and things like that, and Ialways felt comfortable and
confident and really kind ofenjoyed that, but it was never
anything really that I tookseriously.
It was just.
(07:53):
You know, you're in high school,a university, somebody's having
a play, you just have a bit offun.
But standup comedy in the li inthe eighties and nineties,
standup comedy in Boston reallytook off like a bat outta hell.
I mean, it was even bigger thanNew York back then.
New York was saturated.
A lot of comedians moved toBoston and I.
was going to comedy clubs almostevery weekend.
(08:13):
And any free time I had, I wasgoing with my friends and my
sisters and.
I just had a I just loved comedyTo this day, I listen to comedy
in my car, comedy at home.
I don't listen to music.
so 2009 New Yorker, he was anAmerican born Chinese and a New
Yorker comedian His family wasoriginally from Hong Kong and he
(08:34):
still had his mother livingthere part-time between New York
and Hong Kong.
So he moved to Hong Kong andopened literally the first
standup comedy club.
In Asia Pacific, his name'sJamie Gong, and the club is
takeout comedy with littlechopsticks like takeout.
He literally, when he startedwell actually the club started
in 2007.
I was a couple of year, I wasabout a year and a half after he
(08:57):
opened when I did my first show.
I mean, he would literally havepeople calling saying, it's
standup comedy.
Does that mean there's nochairs?
You know, like, we have to standup while we're watching it.
And he had a passion to bringcomedy to Asia Pacific.
And then I had read an article.
In the newspaper about him andhe was offering a course.
And at the time I still had theSandler, you know, I was still
(09:18):
doing Sandler franchise and allthat.
And I thought, what a great wayto differentiate myself from
other consultants by saying I dostandup comedy because I.
You can get on stage, you canhandle anything in sales, right?
You're getting on stage withjust a microphone.
So I took Jamie's class, and tothis day, we're best friends and
I've been doing it ever since,from open mics to performing all
(09:41):
over Asia.
I performed in London at acomedy club there and now I
perform regularly here.
it was something, when you findthe passion of something you
love you can't get enough of it.
And What it did is made myconsulting better'cause people
wanted to be in the room.
'cause I made it fun andengaging and between that and
(10:02):
sales and everything else.
Comedy just changed my life andit really did in a positive way.
I.
Paul (10:08):
I often tell people that they can differentiate
themselves in any given spacewithout having to put on big
floppy clown shoes.
But I guess what you did was puton the big floppy clown shoes,
right?
Like almo, almost exactly that,that it's fascinating.
I imagine you had someinteresting conversations with
your old banking colleagues as aresult.
Anthony (10:29):
Well, not only did I have some interesting
conversations I got quite a fewof them into my world as well.
And not all of them, but I didget a few, you know, one of my
best friends he's actuallyBritish, but from London, just
moved back to London from HongKong after many years.
He's a trader, very big financeguy.
One of my dear friends hestarted doing it around the time
(10:51):
I did, and he was hooked aswell.
And now he's been doing it allover Asia.
Now he's back in London only afew months ago.
And I'm sure he will continuethe faith as well.
And, you know, I, what I love isbringing people that always
dreamed about doing it to thestage.
I just did a I just helped afriend here.
I have a dear friend in Phoenix.
of his friends who I didn't knowwas in stage four cancer and
(11:14):
sadly is in hospice.
And his dream in life was to doa standup comedy routine.
about a month ago, I helpedcoach I.
My friend who then helped himcoach his friend, and guy ended
up getting on stage and I'mgetting the goosebumps talking
about it because he justfulfilled a dream.
So the amount of people thatwhen I hear I'm a comedian say,
(11:35):
you know, I've always kind ofthought about doing that.
And you coach, I had my niecewho was 19 at the time, she got
on stage and did a 10 minutecomedy routine.
I helped her with a few jokes.
She wrote her own.
And when she got off stage, itwas as if her whole world lit
up.
Because if you can do that atthe age of 19 in a dark room
with people you don't know, man,your confidence goes off the
(11:56):
charts.
And when people hear, I'm acomedian, that's all they want
to talk about.
So what better way to do a run abusiness and be a sales trainer
and coach?
'cause if I can do that, man,cold calling and prospecting is
pretty easy.
Paul (12:10):
So, yes.
Everyone watching at home, itturns out that bankers and
people involved in the financialindustry can be funny.
But Nobody knew.
Nobody knew.
Well, thank you very much foreducating us today.
It's a,
Anthony (12:22):
Yeah, it can help.
It can hurt it.
It can happen.
Paul (12:26):
of all the backgrounds that I would pick for to
transfer well into comedy.
That is absolutely the back ofthe queue for me.
Amazing.
And then I guess bringing thecomedy and the sales chain
together, you've worked acrosslots of, like lots of different
cultures from the US down toEurope, across to Hong Kong.
Anthony (12:46):
Yeah.
Paul (12:48):
what's some of the biggest differences you've seen in how
people approach sales and kindof the universal truths?
How do they hold out acrossdifferent cultures?
Anthony (12:57):
Yeah, there.
You know, it's a great questionand I've learned that there are
different cultures.
There's no question whetheryou're, whether I'm doing
business in Japan or Taiwan orSingapore, it, they're all very
different in and of themselves.
I.
and that's where a lot of thecultural training comes in
where, and I've done a lot ofthat where I'm training an
American or Brit who just movedto Hong Kong and all of a sudden
(13:19):
is dealing with mainland China.
And I think the culturaldifferences you need to
understand, for example, inAmerica, in the uk, it's a
little bit more fast.
You can get down to businessstraight away.
the cultural differences in Asiaare obviously slowed down.
You know, this is more of apersonal you, it's not personal,
but it's more of a relationship.
We'll get to business when thetime is right.
(13:40):
So those are the culturaldifferences.
But one thing is for sure, I.
No matter where you are in theworld, people wanna feel
comfortable when they're talkingto you.
They don't want to feelthreatened, they don't want to
feel under pressure.
I'll do a little self brag here,but one of my first books was
called Trust, comfort, andConfidence.
Three words That'll Change theWay You Sell.
(14:01):
And I came up with those threewords because I kind of did a
training program on the, on atriangle that said, if you only
have one or two out of thosethree.
You're not gonna be assuccessful.
'cause we all know there'speople you would trust with your
life, but you may not want to,you just don't have any comfort
around them.
They're too pushy or they're toosomething.
(14:22):
Or there's people where you lovebeing around them.
They're dear friends.
You have confidence in theirabilities, but you just don't
trust them for some reason.
Right?
There's that element of doubt.
So what humor and not justhumor, but what understanding
your audience and reading aroom, what that does for you is
really.
Like in comedy, you have to readthe room within 10 seconds,
(14:43):
right?
What type of room am I in?
Is it more, are they loud?
Are they shouting?
Are they quiet?
Are they reserved?
Is it an elderly crowd?
Is it a young crowd?
Sales is the same way.
If I was selling to you, Paul,I'm gonna look at your body
language, the words you use.
Do you use your hands?
Are you you know, I need to bethinking and processing that all
(15:04):
the time.
So when I respond to you, it'sin a style that makes you feel
comfortable.
For example, I don't know ifyou've ever done the DISC
profile or disc assessments.
I'm a very high d I'm very, I.
Assertive.
I'm very confident.
I'm very quick to rush and makedecisions with my gut.
I was selling to someone like mywife, for example, who's more
(15:27):
rational and detailed andlogical, if I sell to her in my
style there's gonna be a majordisconnect.
But if I can intuitively in oneor two minutes realize, Hey,
this person is more detailed,and change my pitch.
She's gonna feel morecomfortable with me and not as
threatened as someone who istrying to push things down her
throat.
So the comedy and theunderstanding of that human
(15:49):
dynamic has just helped me, notonly in sales, but every aspect
of life.
You know, people at work, I'm ina new job here, it's only been
six months.
I'm like the office whereeverybody wants to hang out in
because they just know that theyfeel comfortable around me.
They trust me.
They know that I have no hiddenagenda.
And when you have peoplegenuinely like that, you want to
(16:10):
be around them.
It's infectious.
And in sales, people are gonnagive you more business because
they want to be around you.
And that's where getting, youknow, it's not about higher
price or whatever, it's, I'mgonna do business with people
that are.
Like me, I trust, I feelcomfortable around.
'cause when you sell something,you're gonna be around them for
a long time.
Right.
And you just want to be aroundthat person and know they're
(16:31):
gonna be there for you.
Paul (16:32):
So.
With that in mind, you bringhumor into your training.
And I'd love to understand alittle bit more about how you
bring that humor into thetraining.
But before we get to that, likehow can business owners and
sales teams use humor themselvesstrategically to build those
relationships?
'cause you are talking aboutdoing that yourself, like, how
can we take lessons from whatyou've done there to implement
(16:53):
at home?
Anthony (16:54):
It's a great question.
And you know, I think for me,what the first sign that banking
may have been, lightning up alittle bit.
You remember the Dilbertcharacter.
And you know, the first sign wayback when was when banks, you
know, people started sharingcopies of Dilbert cartoons and
lightning up the mood.
But I wanna say that by usinghumor, I don't mean that I'm
(17:15):
cracking jokes, right?
what I mean is I'm not takingmyself or life so seriously,
right?
Life is too short whether you'rein banking it, whether you're
selling a service consulting.
We're not, you know, we're notcuring cancer, my friend, we're
just two people trying to dobusiness together, make sense of
(17:37):
it and make some money and besuccessful.
So really what I talk abouthumor is, I mean, just don't
take yourself so seriously.
Right.
We're not, you know, you've seensome people, they're in sales
meetings and they're dressed andthey've got their tie, and
they've got their notepad.
in and have a conversation.
Like, I'm talking to you.
If there's a, you know, I use alot of self-deprecating, I'll
(17:58):
make fun of myself, I'll makefun of my company in a fun way
that gets people saying, youknow what?
This guy has a good outlook onlife.
I'm gonna at least hear what hehas to say.
So I'm not talking about jokes.
I'm talking about.
yourself and life less seriouslyand lighten up the mood.
Put a little levity in thesituation and you'd be surprised
(18:19):
how people will just want toopen up and talk to you.
All of us in our heads, we havegood examples of good things in
sales, good things in business,bad, maybe an article you read,
maybe a story you heard fromanother comedian.
So I talk more about the powerof stories and lightening up.
And not taking yourself soseriously.
And what ends up happening, thewalls come down with whoever
(18:41):
you're speaking to, and thatlevel of trust and comfort, they
kind of want to be around you.
So it's not as much tellingjokes, it's more just being
lighthearted, making fun ofyourself, making fun of a
current situation and justtaking yourself a little bit
more lightly than you would.
Some people get very serious andit just ruins the mood.
Paul (19:01):
I remember reading some research by gong.io a while
back, which was that when youswear after a prospect has sworn
on a call and you reciprocate ina similar manner with the
swearing, the trust level goesthrough the roof and the sales,
I can't remember the exactpercentage, but the likelihood
for conversion goes through theroof because you've shared that
(19:22):
moment together.
Obviously they've got to swearfirst.
It's gotta be permission based,right?
Like you lead by example, notgoing in all guns blazing.
But I think the same is truefor, you know, making people
smile.
you make someone smile.
They remember how you made themfeel.
And I think that is the key partthat, so to your point, so many
salespeople forget all aboutbecause it's all about being in
(19:43):
the VIP club and the President'sClub and all of these like,
fine.
But unless we're having funwhile we get there and while
we're enjoying ourselves andhelping other people enjoy their
sometimes very dull lives.
Anthony (19:55):
Yeah, and if you look at, you know, people I meet
after a long time or people Iused to work with or that worked
for me they don't remember asmuch about the business, but
they remember how I made themfeel and how I made them laugh,
and how I took a serioussituation and made it
lighthearted.
And coach them through somethingthat was a very difficult time.
And getting back to what yousaid about the swearing and
(20:15):
building trust, one of thethings we talk about it, there's
something called neurolinguisticprogramming, which I've studied
a lot.
It's NLP and there's a termcalled mirroring and matching
where you don't wanna mimicsomeone and let you know if they
put their hand up, you put yourhand up.
But.
The pace with which someone isspeaking, the amount of humor
they use, the amount of swearingthey use how animated they are
(20:39):
and how dynamic they are.
If you can mirror and match alittle bit, you're gonna have
synchronicity and you're gonnacommunicate so much better and
they're gonna walk away saying,I don't know what it was about
Anthony, but man, I really feltcomfortable talking to him.
Paul (20:53):
I think we're so aligned, Anthony, I've really enjoyed the
conversation before.
Before we bring everything to a,to an end for today's episode,
kind of one outdated sales andmarket and technique that you
wish businesses would just stopusing immediately?
What's what
Anthony (21:07):
yeah, it's the, a lot of businesses to this day are
spending so much time on theproduct pitch and what the
product can do and how greatthey are.
I remember when I first joinedHSBC, I, you know, they were,
each one of their proposals, thefirst 10 pages would be how
wonderful HSBC was.
(21:28):
And we're 150 years old and wewere started in Scotland, and
we, those days are over.
No one cares about your company.
They care about what yourcompany can do for them.
But here's the challenge, andI'll leave you with one thing
that has taught me the most.
The only person.
That knows what it's gonna taketo sell you.
Something is you, and that dataand information is in your head.
(21:53):
Clients go in and especially ifyou've been in an industry a
long time, when I was in bankingafter 20 years, I'd go in and
I'd say, well, I'm meeting theCFO of a company.
I know exactly what they need.
That assumption has killed moredeals than anything I've ever
seen in my life.
But you know, Sandler waswonderful.
Most salespeople spend 20% oftheir time trying to understand
(22:16):
the client, and 80% pitching asolution that has to be switched
around 80% of the time should bespent on dialogue and
understanding and relationship.
And what's really motivatingyou?
What's your challenge?
What do you what do you look forin the next year?
What's gonna make thisrelationship a success?
Imagine if you went into adoctor.
(22:37):
You said you have a sore arm andwithin 10 seconds they said, you
know what?
I think we need to amputate yourarm.
That is what doing sales in arushed manner is like you, the
doctor is gonna spend most ofthe time understanding the real
problem, and once he understandsit, then he gives you the
solution.
Salespeople need to slow down.
(22:58):
Ask more questions.
Ask more questions.
Reconfirm the questions, andonly when you've heard from the
client exactly what they want.
You present a solution.
If you do it prematurely, youare becoming a pushy product
salesperson.
And then you give all of us abad name.
Take your time, slow down,understand, present what they
(23:20):
want, and that's the goldenticket.
Paul (23:23):
Some absolute gems of wisdom in today's episode.
Thank you very much for comingalong and putting a smile on my
face
Anthony (23:29):
Absolutely.
Paul (23:31):
I appreciate it
Anthony (23:31):
Yeah.
This has been wonderful.
I appreciate your time.
Paul (23:34):
and thank you.
And thank you at home for comingalong and watching the episode
or listening to us wherever,however you are consuming the
episode, it is reallyappreciated.
if you know somebody you want tobe a guest on the show in the
future, or or you've got sometopics that you'd like us to
cover we'll absolutely go outour way, find those for you.
And special thanks to ourcharity partners for the episode
(23:56):
for the series.
ADHD Liberty, who are fightingthe skill to prison pipeline for
ADHD and neurodiverseindividuals.
Anthony, thank you very
Anthony (24:06):
Paul.
Thank you so much.
Best of luck.
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