August 13, 2025 • 42 mins
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What do theatre and leadership have in common? According to Michael Allosso—everything. In this riveting episode of MarketPulse: Pros and Pioneers, we're joined by one of the world’s most dynamic speakers and leadership coaches. Michael has spent decades helping business leaders show up with presence, power, and authenticity using a surprisingly theatrical toolkit.
From humble beginnings as a high school drama teacher to coaching Fortune 500 CEOs, Michael shares the unusual trajectory that shaped his approach. His transformative method, “You On Your Best Day,” draws directly from the world of theatre and improvisation—teaching leaders how to heighten the stakes and captivate their audiences. It’s not fluff. It’s raw, real, and backed by years of success on stages both literal and metaphorical.
We dive deep into how personal branding goes way beyond social media, why authenticity is often misunderstood, and how improvisational thinking could be the game-changer your business needs. Michael also opens up about his own journey—from personal loss to career pivots—and what it really means to lead with intention every single day.
If you’ve ever felt like leadership should be more human, more creative, and way less robotic, this is the episode for you. Buckle up. You're about to find out how drama, done right, can elevate every aspect of business and life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
Today we are gonna find out how mastering presence and
(00:03):
performance, both on stage andoff, can completely transform
the way people respond to youboth in business and in life.
Today's guest is Michael aso asa master communications expert,
award-winning speaker andself-awareness specialist with a
unique background in theater,film, and leadership coaching.
(00:25):
Over 20 years of experiencecoaching CEOs, executives, and
their teams, Michael has helpedbusiness leaders master
presence, communication, andauthenticity.
His You On Your Best Day programhas transformed thousands of
professionals by teaching themhow to command attention, engage
audiences, and elevate theirimpact.
(00:46):
He's a former theater directorand actor I, when I say that in
my best British accent.
Michael's ability to translateperformance techniques into
business communication is earnedin numerous accolades, including
multiple Speaker of the Yearawards from Vistage
International and TEC Canada.
Michael, that is a veryimpressive bio's.
A pleasure to have you along forthe short idea.
(01:07):
How are you?
Michael (01:08):
Well, thank you, Paul, for the best British accent too.
That's what I would expect.
It's, do you know whose birthdayit is today?
It's Queen
Paul (01:15):
No.
Michael (01:15):
the one's 497th birthday and she looks great for
her age.
I mean, it's so with thatweighty holiday that we're
celebrating, I feel so honoredthat I'm your guest.
It's great to be with you.
Miss being in the uk.
If I'm gone for a month, I feellike, oh, I need to go back and
speaking with you.
(01:35):
I feel like I'm back.
Paul (01:37):
It's nice to hear.
It's nice to hear because I, Ithink sometimes that, that
divide across the water is morethan we deserve at times.
There are, there's a lot of,certainly East Coast America, as
we were discussing before theshore, new England a lot of my
friends in the, in my local areawould really appreciate the
connections that we have acrossthe pond to you guys.
(01:57):
There's a lot of closenessthere.
Michael (01:59):
I'm waving to you right now.
I'm looking at the pond.
It's right.
Outside my window, and so I'mwaving.
I hope you can see me.
Paul (02:05):
It's a beautiful pond.
It's a beautiful pond.
Michael, I think you are thefirst person that we've had
that's, that started out with abackground in theater
particularly.
So we've had it's amazing howmany people get into marketing
who come from a film background.
Certainly.
And I know that theater, ifanything is film but
exaggerated.
It's more, there has to be moreof a connection in the moment.
(02:28):
So if you would, I'd like tostart back there in, in how you
got involved in theater in thefirst place.
Is it always something that youwanted to do?
Michael (02:35):
I love what you said, Paul Film, but exaggerated or
more in a way Is more authentic.
You say exaggerated?
The incongruity of thatstatement is that it's more real
exaggeration.
We generally think of as fake.
The theater has to be real.
There's no, you can't retake it.
(02:56):
It is in the moment there's aninteraction with a live
audience.
So, in the day, rarely could anactor go back and forth between
theater and film.
Today we see it happening quitefrequently because actors are
stronger and they're studyingmore.
But you notice many film actors.
Are eager to go back and dotheater.
(03:16):
Glenda Jackson, who's one of themost successful film actors, a
two time Academy Award winner,outstanding British film
actress, came back and didBroadway, you know, last year.
Everybody wants to come backbecause of the authenticity, the
realness of it, and I thinkthat's always what attracted me.
Think about who I am, Paul, myparents were born in the US but
(03:40):
their parents were all born inEurope.
I.
And when they came to the US inthose days, you were embarrassed
to be from Europe, and what youdid was you repressed any of
your Euro European heritage.
So it was all aboutassimilation.
You know, it's very differentnow.
(04:00):
My parents parents had toassimilate.
Both my parents were born here,but their older siblings were
not.
So it was about learning alanguage assimilating.
So my parents grew up inhouseholds of low self-esteem.
Basically people who did notfeel they were worthy and worked
hard because, you know, therewere nasty names.
(04:22):
The, you know, the US has itshistory of intolerance.
Everyone thinks what we're doingnow is new.
It's just been, it's historical.
And so.
I know my grandparents were suchlow self-esteem, hardworking
people, and my parents, neitherof my parents graduated from the
10th grade.
my dad tells a story his, hestarted 10th grade school,
(04:45):
finished the first day, and hewent out and put on his football
uniform to do football practice.
And his dad appeared and hesaid, take that off.
What are you doing?
You have to come back and workon the farm.
he grabbed my dad by the year,took him to the farm and my dad
never went back to school.
Flash forward to they have threesons and all they care about is
that dream of educating theirthree sons.
(05:06):
Now I'm in the middle.
I know that will shock youbecause I'm so normal that you
would think, how could I be amiddle child?
I'm a classic middle child andboth my brothers are huge jocks,
multi-talented athletes,multi-sport, and I was the kind
of academic.
(05:28):
guy in the middle.
Now think about like if you grewup in Brighton, I grew up in a
town called Arlington,Massachusetts, suburb of Boston,
where everybody was either Irishor Italian.
You know, there were no blackpeople, no Jewish people.
And if you didn't do sports andyou were a boy, you were called
(05:50):
pretty bad names.
And so there I am, little skinnyme.
Everyone says, oh, you're gonnaplay football like your brother
Joe.
I'm, I really want to like studyand do student council and do
theater, but I didn't have theconfidence to do theater until
my senior year of high school.
I always knew I was attracted toacting, but I just wasn't
(06:14):
confident enough to do it.
And you know what finally mademe confident?
And this is the sad part ofthis, is'cause I had a hot
girlfriend senior year.
So finally I had the confidenceto do theater.
How sad is that?
And so that's when the momentbegan where I finally did this
thing that I kept inside becauseI was afraid I'd be called
(06:36):
names.
And in that moment, eitherconsciously or subconsciously, I
said, I'm gonna make sure otherkids never feel this way.
And they see the power oftheater.
So the first 10 years of mycareer, I was a high school
drama teacher.
think the drive was, I wanted toopen up those kids earlier than
I was opened up for thatincredible opportunity for them
(06:59):
to express themselves to do thatthrough theater.
Because think about what theaterdoes educationally, I.
Paul, you know, you can casteverybody.
If you choose a play and notcharity casting, you choose a
play.
You need the macho dude, and youneed the boy who's gay, who
doesn't know he is gay yet.
need the heavy girl who'sstruggling with her weight, and
(07:22):
you need miss.
Pretty cheerleader girl.
need them all in order to makethe play, and you cast'em in
roles where they shine, wherethey're brilliant.
They learn to love and respecteach other because you can't
make a play if only one person'sgood.
It's like sports in so many waysthat you have to work together
as that team.
(07:42):
that was the magic for me,bringing those kids out.
And then what I was discoveringwas not only was I doing great
things for kids and making themfeel good about themselves, but
I was making great art.
Theater, when you feel goodabout yourself, you make art.
And so our plays, I'm as proudof anything I directed with high
(08:03):
school kids as I, things Idirected with professional
actors in my career.
Stunning pieces where these kidswere brilliant.
so that was, I became selfish atthe end of 10 years, if you
will, and I said, am I gonna behappy?
I'm 80 years old and the parentsare making testimonials about
(08:24):
how I changed their kids' livesand gave me a gold watch, is
that gonna gimme the fulfillmentthat I need?
And so that's when I made thedecision to go get my Master's
of Fine Arts in directingimmerse myself in the
professional theater.
the journey that start.
So it was always in there,probably mother said that I was
(08:46):
dancing as a little kid.
You know, that I would go out inthe street and throw my shoes
off and run through ponds.
And I'm sure I didn't seesinging in the rain with Gene
Kelly when I was four years olddoing that.
But somehow I knew that's what Iwanted to do and I was never
gonna march the same drummer asmy older brother.
Or my dad, the macho fireman.
(09:08):
I always knew I had a singularsong that I wanted to sing.
was just having the strength tosing that song.
Paul (09:14):
I think when you've got that much creative.
The energy sat within you, italways finds a way to leak out
in the end.
You can compress it and hide itand control it for so long, but
I think it always finds a wayout.
But I think that what you saidabout, you know, helping young
people to find their way to letit out at an earlier age and
(09:36):
make it more.
More of a, an accepted path forkids to go without that kind of
negative aspect, that negativeand on.
I completely see where you'recoming from with that.
'cause, you know, even here inthe uk I can see where that is
the same.
We maybe not to use the samewords.
We, at the beginning, maybe notas exaggerated maybe a little
(09:56):
bit more acceptable, but notquite.
If that makes sense.
And the drama kids were alwayseither one end of the spectrum
or the other.
Right?
Was always the kids that justwanted attention or the kids
that really needed to get a bitmore attention but didn't quite
dare and kind of sat there, veryquiet.
And I think it takes acourageous person to help kind
of change young people's.
(10:18):
Perception, I think is the wordI'm looking for.
The young people's perception ofthat, and I think you're
absolutely right.
It takes all sorts.
You need all the angles to dothat.
Michael (10:25):
Courageous on both ends, right Paul?
Because they were
Paul (10:28):
Do
Michael (10:28):
it, Me better think about the skills they were
giving me.
'cause when you direct highschool kids, Paul, you can't
miss a beat.
if you, they're gonna say to youMr.
Aso, in scene three, when Ihanded Paul the Javelin
yesterday, I handed him thejavelin this way.
Today I did it this way.
Which did you think workedbetter?
(10:50):
And if you're not payingattention, you're not honoring
them the way you should.
So they taught me.
To be on my toes, and that'swhere I developed my real
critical faculty Of, My secretsauce, able to look at something
and to tell you in greatspecifics what works and what
doesn't work for it, and howpeople are receiving it.
(11:11):
They taught me how to use thoseskills.
They forced me to use thoseskills.
They demanded that I use thoseskills that I had developed by
sitting as a little introverted.
Kid watching my brother andwatching my dad in a house full
of all these, this swagger beingquiet, I developed observation
(11:31):
skills and then I applied thatto the kids.
And so it was a mutualadmiration society for sure.
Paul (11:38):
So then how did you find that transition from working
with children and young peoplethrough to the more professional
productions that you worked onin later years?
Michael (11:48):
Yeah, was, as I said, vanity, was, man I'm doing great
stuff.
I wanna do this at a higherlevel.
And I also knew that I could,I'm a professional improviser,
so I also knew we, there's.
improv company in Boston when Iwas teaching in high school, we
(12:10):
had as a guest performer in ourschool.
So these four hot actors cameand did improv for the kids, and
my eyes were bulging as Iwatched them.
'cause the little Michael voiceinside said, I can do this, can
definitely do this.
there was kind of a collision.
(12:32):
You know, whether you believe inGod or the cosmos, sometimes
things happen and you thinkthere must be a reason.
So my fireman dad, who is sostrong Dom, dad never sick,
never took a day off.
Paul from the fire stationshowed up every day and was
really proud of that.
(12:53):
He was diagnosed with terminalcancer at the same time that my
ideal marriage.
The woman I married, the woman Ilost my virginity with the woman
I went to the senior prom.
With that, our marriage fizzledpretty much simultaneously with
my dad being diagnosed withcancer terminal cancer.
(13:14):
so this guy who thought he wasgonna have 2.6 children and live
happily ever after teachingdrama suddenly everything got
challenged.
And so.
I felt sorry for myself forabout five minutes, and my
friend Cheryl called me up oneday and said, what?
You know that improv companythat came to your school?
They're re, they want areplacement cast.
(13:37):
They're casting six new actors.
Pick up, get your energy going.
I'm coming to get you and we'regoing to this audition.
So Paul, this was an amazingaudition.
There were hundreds of actors.
All thinking they were funny whowere put up on stage and were
told do a blues song aboutJavelins do a, a country and
(14:01):
western song about the UK Go andyou had no preparation time.
And so the hundreds of peopledid this, and then they narrowed
it down to 26 people come in anddo a lengthy audition.
got there.
And they put us through a day ofropes.
(14:22):
At the end of the day, theyhired 10 people for a week
because they said, thisaudition's not over.
We're gonna pay you a week'ssalary you're gonna do improv
for a week, and we're gonna seewho the six people are.
And four of you're gonna gohome.
And six of gonna say, I mean,this was long before these
reality TV shows.
I was in the reality TV show.
(14:44):
I'm sure you know this about me,Paul.
I'm deeply competitive so therewas no way now that I had made
it to this point that I wasgonna be one of those four
people.
so that competitive thing I.
Drove me and I got cast as oneof these six new professional
improvisers for this companywhere you, and you understand
(15:06):
what professional improv is.
You stand on stage, an audiencecomes in and you say, what's
something you like to do in yourspare time?
And someone says ski in theAlps.
And suddenly you're doing ascene or a song about skiing in
the Alps.
Immediately you have a tinylittle huddle time and away you
go.
was a major transition for me.
That told me that I had theseprofessional skills, and that
(15:29):
was as I was rounding, I think Iwas past the midpoint of my
teaching career.
So I did the professional improvand taught at the same time,
which was huge.
Was hard to balance those two.
And so that was a huge catalyst.
And so that with pride andlooking at these beautiful
plays.
And of course I'm, I said I'mcompetitive.
(15:51):
We entered festivals.
We didn't just do'em forourselves and we won festivals
and that's it.
You know, you have those kidssuddenly who were socially
awkward.
Suddenly they're going to dramafestivals and winning
transformational.
I'm saying if I can do that forkids, what can I do for adults I
(16:13):
can change the world so thatmore people are seeing these
pieces of theater?
Are upping their joy, uppingtheir commitment to a moment.
Theater is magical.
When you attend a play that'sexcellent, you leave the theater
and your life has changed.
I'm all about enriching lives.
So I think that was the of therecipe for what this move was
(16:35):
for that.
'cause remember chapter one,high school Drama teacher,
chapter two, Mr.
Show Business.
I know where you're going.
Chapter three, like away we go.
But you see how the first twosteps made sense for who I was.
Paul (16:50):
Absolutely on.
It's clear that from a young ageyou knew what your why was.
Your why.
That we, you know, we talk aboutthis all the time now.
Your why, and it's a big part ofthis season, right?
Like discovering what it is thatmakes you unique in your space.
And it's rare to meet somebodyto be fair that kind of.
I guess even if you couldn't, ifsomebody had articulated it to
(17:11):
you and said why do you do whatyou do?
You probably, at least at theearly part of that, I wouldn't
have known why you do what youdo, just that you enjoy it.
It was a passion and you wereworking on your passion.
But it's clear now that you knowthroughout that entire thing
that the one theme that kept yougoing was that the impact that
you were having on otherpeople's lives and your ability
to.
(17:32):
Transform what they wereexperiencing, what they were
doing, how they were perceivingit through your arts, through
the arts that you were helpingother people with.
And I think that's a beautifulgift to be able to give to
people.
You're right.
Phase three is kind of where I'mmost curious because that feels
like a career.
All of what you've discussedfeels like a lifelong career.
(17:52):
At what point did you decidethat you then wanted to help
business owners?
I.
Like, how did you transitionfrom a successful director,
actor, you know, all theseaward-winning productions.
I can imagine you've had anamazing experience.
You met some fantastic actorsand and performers.
(18:12):
Why did you transition from thatto business leaders?
Michael (18:15):
I believe when you are really excellent at what you do
and you heighten the stakes likeyou, one of the things I respect
about you is that this podcast,as we prepared for it,
critically important to you.
I didn't feel like you had elsein your life but me that this
was all about you and mecreating this podcast and making
(18:39):
it excellent so that yourcommunity would be lifted and
enriched.
So that's, in theater we callthat heightening the stakes.
if I'm coaching you and Leo in ascene, a father son scene in a
play, and I think you're sortof, into it, I'll say, Hey Paul,
come on.
Heighten your stakes.
(18:59):
I believe when you heighten yourstakes, magic happens.
people are very interested andin love with people who heighten
their stakes.
It's very charismatic and peopleare smarter than you give them
credit for.
They do all the heavy liftingfor you.
I didn't decide, oh, I'm gonnabe a business coach.
(19:20):
Others did.
So think about it.
High school drama teacher.
You can imagine how committedand passionate I was.
You know, that first marriagefell apart, probably partially
because of my completecommitment to those high school
kids.
My rehearsal room door wasalways open parents would stray
(19:40):
in and watch rehearsals.
Paul, one of those parentsturned out to be the corporate
shrink of a major utilitycompany in the UK and in New
England.
I don't know how many years ormonths this was afterwards, he
called me and he said, Michael,I watched how you coached my
(20:01):
daughter, Sabrina and her peers.
Do you think you could translatethose skills coaching a CEO?
Because I'm the corporate shrinkof this utility company and I'm
running out of things to do withmy CEO.
Do you think you could translatethose skills to that you know me
well enough, Paul?
I'm not big on the no word.
(20:22):
That's why I'm doing thispodcast with you, you know?
So I said, oh, yeah, sure, I cando that.
Well, when I hung up with him, Iwent and looked up CEO in the
dictionary.
Does your viewership know what adictionary is?
Yeah.
So I didn't even know what A CEOwas.
What's a CEO?
They brought me in.
Paul HR interviewed me for threehours on straight back chairs
(20:45):
like this.
It was like a grilling, Ithought I was going to prison.
At the end of the three hours,they not only gave me the CEO to
coach, but the nine VPs in lineto be the next in, in uk you
call them more managingdirectors, I guess, in line to
be the next big shot because theCEO had already announced that
he was leaving.
(21:06):
So yes, they not only gave himthe CEO to coach but these other
nine people.
So all of a sudden Mr.
Show business.
Is coaching these 10 hot shotsand telling them what to do.
I had lots of imposter syndromeback then, but I kept plucking
through and doing the things,coaching them the same way I had
coached actors.
(21:27):
One of them turned out to be inthis leadership group and he
said, I need to hire you to cometo observe me in this leadership
group.
So I went with my trustee legalpad that I always have, and I
took notes through the wholemeeting.
They were about to process aconfidential issue.
(21:49):
The chair of the group dismissedme, and as I was walking out the
door, he said, Hey, you took alot of notes.
Read those notes.
And I said, oh, well, my notesfrom my client are confidential.
He said, bull, you are takingnotes about everybody.
So this was in Boston.
And he said, read'em, spill'em.
I read all my notes.
(22:09):
Paul, I, it was either thatnight or the next day, he called
me and he said, I want you to bea speaker.
He said, I'm gonna hire you formy two.
This was spring fall of 2003.
He said, January, 2004.
You're gonna lead off the yearspeaking to my two groups.
I'm gonna send you thepaperwork.
This was part of VistageInternational that you talked
(22:30):
about in my intro.
The, and it's in the uk andthere are so many splinter
groups, but basically it's anorganization that's worldwide
that gets, people, see leadersof companies to sit in a room.
You have, you know, 14 to 20disparate groups.
And they meet monthly.
And I started on the speakercircuit.
(22:52):
Of that, that January, 2004,because of the goodness of this
chair, he saw it in me, and Icreated you on your best day
overnight.
My 35 secret weapons to help yoube you on your best day
overnight.
You know?
And I say created overnight.
I put it pen to paper overnight.
This was something I was livingmy whole life.
I simply translated what I haddone in my career with kids, my
(23:14):
career with theater.
So you see how coachingexecutives is a collision.
the educational theater worldand the professional theater
world.
those same skills that I hadbeen working on in both of
those, both for myself and intransferring those skills to
others was what I used forexecutives, the rest is history.
(23:34):
I did his first two groups.
He went on this thing calledChair Net where he gossiped
about me.
Someone else picked me up andbefore long.
That's how I got to the UK sooften.
Hallelujah.
You know, was because of thatorganization.
And then other people met me andbrought me in for other things.
the here I am, all because of ahigh school drama rehearsal,
(23:58):
Paul.
So Paul here's the thing, why,what ha, why did I get to where
I am?
Because I don't believe in thefour letter word.
Just, I never said, ah, it'sjust a rehearsal.
They're just high school kids.
It's a rehearsal.
high school kids.
not just doing a podcast thismorning.
(24:19):
I'm doing a podcast with Paul.
When you heighten the stakes,magic happens.
Paul (24:25):
I ab, this is one of my favorite conversations.
I've thoroughly enjoyed this.
A lot of people talk aboutpersonal brand these days,
right?
Personal brands become somethinga lot of people roll their eyes
at.
I don't wanna be a thoughtleader.
I don't wanna be an influencer.
I don't want to have a personalbrand.
And I think what you are provingto all of us is that we have a
(24:46):
personal brand, whether we likeit or not, and a personal brand
is not something that you'vejust.
Have on LinkedIn.
It's not something that you justhave on any social media
platform.
It's how people perceive youwhen you are not in the room.
It's how people you work with,your family, your friends.
It's how you turn up.
(25:06):
And I think you've verysuccinctly drawn a line under
why that's important for all ofus in that.
How we do anything is how we doeverything.
And that's one of the corethings I've always raised my
kids on, right?
You're gonna go and train forfootball, practice, you train,
but train as if you're in agame.
Don't train like you're here topass some time for half an hour.
(25:29):
And it's fun.
Train like you're in a gamebecause when the game comes, you
don't wanna make those mistakes.
You wanna make them now, but youwon't make those mistakes now if
you don't train hard.
I'm, we can apply that to lotsand lots of things.
So I love your philosophy aroundall of that.
Talk us a little bit through youon your best day, if you would
like.
What are the, what's the core tothat?
Michael (25:48):
how we do anything is how we do everything.
I love that.
I'll
Paul (25:53):
can't clear ownership for that.
I heard that somewhere else aswell.
Michael (25:56):
All right, fair enough.
And I'll be glad to talk aboutyou and your best day.
The people who are nervous aboutbeing thought leaders, maybe
translated to action leader, youknow, because you and your best
day.
What's real important to us asdirectors, as actors is the word
objective a noun, not as anadjective.
(26:17):
So most of my coaching startswith what's your objective?
I did that with you thismorning.
I said, you know, what's theobjective of the, of this
podcast?
So we define objective as whatdo you want the audience to
leave and do the end of theevent?
Not think, not feel, but do.
(26:37):
What do you want people to do?
And so once I know theobjective.
Then I'm able to serve you andto serve the podcast.
So in theater we have anotherthing.
So objective is your desiredresult.
By the end of the meeting Iwant, we have this other thing
called super objective.
super objective is what theobjective sits under.
(26:59):
It's what we want on ourtombstone.
So mine is secret weapon number35 of the 35 that every single
human being I meet, whether it'syou during this podcast.
it is the cab driver, whether itis my family member, they're
gonna be better after meetingme.
And so that's what carries methrough a day.
(27:22):
And that's the philosophy behindyou and your best day.
The most important word isauthenticity.
And what most people strugglewith is they wanna challenge me.
Well, if you're excellent allthe time, that can't be
authentic.
You know, you just have to.
So I say, well.
What those people do is theyplay the obstacle instead of
playing the objective.
(27:43):
Do you understand thatdistinction, Paul?
So people under the guise ofauthenticity say, well, my back
hurts today, so how is itauthentic for me?
okay, Mr.
Crabby, your back may hurt.
That's the obstacle.
What's your objective?
What's your authentic objective?
My objective's, my team toproduce today.
They gotta produce.
Well, can we think about thetactics you need to create
(28:06):
authentically to get your peopleto produce and whining about
your back is certainly not oneof them.
It's all you have to do is go toa restaurant once and have the
server come to you and say, oh,I'm so tired.
You're my last table.
I can't wait for this day to beover to realize that.
Wait a minute, would anyonebring.
(28:30):
An authentic self that's bad tosomeone else.
What is the point in that?
Why would you do that?
It takes the same amount ofenergy to bring your best
authentic self.
It's not an energy difference.
It takes, what are all thosecliches about how many muscles
it takes to frown and how manymuscles it takes to smile.
(28:50):
And so seeing underachieve,seeing people achieve.
magic in a room.
Seeing that balance tells youwhat you wanna do.
So what I strive to be is mybest every day.
Now, am I perfect far from it?
It's not about perfection atall.
It's about clarifying anobjective and then going after
(29:11):
it with your whole heart andsoul.
And so when I realized thatpeople play the obstacle pretty
regularly, well, I think 2008,2008.
So I coach a lot of constructionteams.
So this is a typicalconversation, Paul.
You know, the owner of aconstruction company would say,
a minute, Michael, I just laidoff four people today, so you
(29:34):
expect me to go in all Michael,aso happy tomorrow.
How is that authentic?
So I take my chill pills and Ibreathe and I say, I ask
questions.
Is your authentic objectivetomorrow to make the people left
standing mourn?
People that you just laid off.
No.
your authentic objectivetomorrow to make the people left
(29:56):
standing nervous that they'rethe next ones that are gonna be
fired?
No.
No.
No.
Or is your authentic objectivetomorrow to make the people left
standing do the same amount ofwork they've always done, if not
more for the same amount ofmoney, if not less so that you
can get your company out of thisthing and start putting food on
people's tables?
(30:17):
Yeah.
That's the authentic human beingthat you bring to the workplace.
That's you on your best day.
Think theater, Paul.
So we're doing a play, you know,and today's the first rehearsal
of the play and you get yourscript and it says Paul walks
across the stage drunk,approaching Michael.
(30:37):
And so you come up and you go,oh Michael, are you?
I go, Ugh.
Paul, what are you doing that'sso fake.
I.
You say, well, Michael, thescript says that I'm drunk.
Paul, when you're drunk, whatusually is your objective?
What are you usually trying toget people to think?
Usually people are trying toshow that they're not drunk,
(30:59):
that they're able, you know,I've been in pubs in the uk, you
guys should know this betterthan us.
You know, it's like, so it's no,you don't play drunk, playing.
Drunk is playing the adjective.
You play the action.
what you and your best day isall about is creating a series
of actions with intentionalityevery day.
(31:20):
That heightens your excellencerather than playing the
obstacle, we know what theobstacle is.
Let's play the action, let'splay the objective and come up
with tactics that help us winthat objective.
All my training when I do youand your best day programs is
always gonna include a littlebit of improv, a little bit of
theater, because it's aboutgoing outside your comfort zone.
(31:42):
would you wanna do the samething you've always done?
Why would I wanna stay a highschool drama teacher my whole
life?
Why would I wanna stay aprofessional director,
choreographer my whole life?
always about, yes and improv.
So yes, you are a crabby,serious CEO.
Okay, fine.
I accept that.
And what else?
So"yes, and" is the core ofimprov, Paul?
(32:03):
So if I'm doing an improv withyou and I say, Ooh Paul, there's
a spider on your shoulder.
can't say There is that.
You have to say, oh yeah, it'smy friend Phil.
You wanna meet him?
Or you have to say ah, get himoff.
That's yes.
And same about life.
Okay.
You're crabby and your backhurts.
Yes.
And what else?
And I wanna make my team bettertoday.
(32:25):
Yes.
I'm a coach, one-on-one coach ofexecutives.
Yes.
And I wanna do workshops andkeynotes and do creative events
that make people come to lifemore.
Yes.
And I don't do subtraction.
I only do addition.
Paul (32:38):
Michael.
I've thoroughly enjoyed theconversation from one end into
the other, and I think we couldprobably do another three or
four hours quite easily.
I love running these podcastsbecause I kind of feel that way
about a lot of my guests.
We have some phenomenalpersonalities on.
One last, one last question foryou then before we wrap things
up to date, which is the word oneveryone's lips right now is ai,
(33:02):
particularly chat, GPT digitaltools.
And I'd imagine coming from atheatrical background, you have
some very specific strongfeelings on the subject and how
it's used and trended.
With the rise of ai what do youthink leaders should be doing
now?
To make sure that theircommunication evolves to come in
line with that ai.
Like what are the pitfalls thatyou'd like to see them avoid,
(33:24):
and how can they really excel atwhat they're doing.
Michael (33:26):
Don't forget.
Yes and.
So what I'm seeing happening iswhat happens to my own team.
I have a whopping four employeesso I give an assignment Wendy,
she's in San Francisco, she's mysteer of the ship.
hands a thing back to me and Isay, oh, you used chat GBT for
this, didn't you?
And she said, how'd you know?
(33:48):
GBT is wonderful and I want youto continue to use it.
Yes.
And.
And when Wendy's on her a game,she takes the chat GBT and
Wendy's it up, and she adds thathumanity.
So even though that's asimplistic example, that's the
answer to your question.
human beings, I believe and callme naive, will never go outta
(34:12):
style.
We were always gonna be needed.
That's my passionate belief.
And if we reject technologyunder some provincial thing,
that no one is better than ahuman being, well, how silly is
that?
wouldn't even find my way fromhere to the, my next gig I use
technology all the time.
Look what we're doing right now.
The magic of speaking across thepond like this, it's yes hand.
(34:36):
How do we embrace all the newtechnology and always not,
sometimes, always dose it withhumanity.
How can you create recipes thatinclude the technology and the
humanity to give you yourdistinct voice?
Now, in order to do that, youneed to know what your core
values are.
You need to know what your superobjective is.
(34:56):
What, do you, why?
Why are you on this earth?
What is the difference you wannamake?
Then that's what you inject inthe human being.
you have people who know how touse the technology and insert
their personality as well, thinkabout that dynamic recipe you
have for success.
all I'm all in, I'm nottechnology is one of, certainly
(35:20):
one of my weakest things, andyou always have to know what
you're weak at so that you, haveother people helping you.
do.
And I embrace the technology.
I embrace that I need to knowmore and I use it to make me
better.
deleting me.
I never wanna remove me from therecipe you and your best day
from me.
(35:40):
My brand is me.
What?
And that's why it's kind ofcircular.
And I know you did this onpurpose'cause you're so
brilliant, that initialconjecture you had about people
rejecting and wanna having havetheir own brand.
If you don't understand what youstand for, how do you know how
to modulate technology?
if you don't know who you are,then the technology is gonna
(36:01):
take you over rather than youare embracing the technology and
using it to augment you.
Makes sense
Paul (36:09):
It is a beautiful summary.
I love it.
Thank you very much, Michael.
It's been a genuine pleasure tohave you on the show today,
thank you very much for takingthe time.
And if folks are li listeningalong and they'd like to learn
more, maybe they'd like to hireyour services or just understand
your methodology a bit more, howcan they best contact you or
find that information out?
Michael (36:28):
Yeah, go to my website, YouOnYourBestDay.com.
I'll tell you, a lot of my UKbrothers and sisters link in
with me.
I dunno if I ever told you this.
I do a different outgoingvoicemail message every single
day.
I've been doing that for about45 years.
Two of them.
One on my cell phone, one on myhome office.
So I create 730 differentoutgoing voicemail messages
(36:51):
every year of my life.
It's one of the ways to keep mecreative.
So Wendy, the heretoforementioned Wendy.
I hired her in 2020.
She's, by the way, a formerdrama student of mine.
That's how I met her.
I met her when she was 13 yearsold.
She
Paul (37:06):
Amazing.
Michael (37:06):
lives in Francisco and she.
When I hired her in 2020, shesaid, you're so dumb, man.
Like these messages that you'vebeen creating, they get erase.
The next day.
I'm gonna chronicle them, putthem in a library, and I want
you to video them.
You pick one of the two, eitheryour cell phone or the home
phone.
You're gonna video them as youdo them, and we're sending them
(37:29):
out to your universe.
So that put more pressure on meto actually look half decent
when I do it.
Think about what locale I'm in.
And so now my UK folks arewatching those videos, India's
ahead of you.
So when I wake up in themorning, my phone is exploding.
First with my buddies in Indiawho say, today's message was
(37:49):
very good, better thanyesterday.
And then the UK people saying,oh yes, this was.
A little less boring thanyesterday.
So I get my feedback as it comesfor the West, across the pond,
and it's so much fun.
And I was totally exaggerating,but the UK folks are so,
actually, they're better thanthe Americans of telling me
(38:11):
what's good and that, see,that's a myth about the UK
brother.
Is that every time I come to theuk, oh, Michael, we're not
effusive here.
We don't call people out forexcellence the way you do bull.
When I'm in the UK I get suchbeautiful, specific and to this
day, my messages from my UKbuddies, constituents, clients.
(38:35):
I think is actually verypowerful.
And so I was totally making ajoke about, yes, better than
yesterday, about boring.
No that's more don't get megoing on Americans.
So that's what I want your teamsto do is start with that then
think about the services I offerare one-on-one coaching, which
(38:57):
all over the world workshopswhere I love going, gimme any
excuse to come to the uk please.
And then once a year, andsomeday you have to do this big
guy for two and a half days hereon the coast of Maine, I do a
retreat.
And so this year, it's September9th through 11, no, September
11th through 13th, two and ahalf days of sheer improv.
(39:18):
And I do it on a farm here inMaine where there are goats and
chickens.
And it's exercise afterexercise, getting you to go
outside your comfort zone andapplying that to leadership.
There's a giant barn on thisfarm that has a stage.
It's quite lovely farm and theowner of the farm is also a
gourmet cook who cooks for uswhile we're there.
(39:40):
So it's this incredibleadventure for two and a half
days that really is me at mybest, where I pull out
everything that, that collision,we talked about, all the
careers, and then people takethat and apply it to their life,
their career, a book they'rewriting, the workshops they're
leading.
Thank you for asking me that,Paul.
Super sweet of you.
Paul (39:59):
I'm so I'm so pleased that we had you on as a guest today,
Michael.
It's brought such a smile at myface and it's.
Really, I've genuinely enjoyedthe conversation.
Lovely to have you along.
Thank you very much, and you areabsolutely welcome to come back
for a round two at some time aswell.
And people at home, thank youvery much for watching along.
I'm sure you've been bothentertained and have learned
something very substantial todayas well.
(40:20):
I've really enjoyed the pointsthat Michael's made and I hope
that it makes a big differencein your own corporate life, your
personal life.
And if nothing else that you'veenjoyed and had fun today, which
I think is important now andagain as well.
Right.
Take care and I will see younext week.
Bye-bye.
Today we are gonna find out how mastering presence and
(00:03):
performance, both on stage andoff, can completely transform
the way people respond to youboth in business and in life.
Today's guest is Michael aso asa master communications expert,
award-winning speaker andself-awareness specialist with a
unique background in theater,film, and leadership coaching.
(00:25):
Over 20 years of experiencecoaching CEOs, executives, and
their teams, Michael has helpedbusiness leaders master
presence, communication, andauthenticity.
His You On Your Best Day programhas transformed thousands of
professionals by teaching themhow to command attention, engage
audiences, and elevate theirimpact.
(00:46):
He's a former theater directorand actor I, when I say that in
my best British accent.
Michael's ability to translateperformance techniques into
business communication is earnedin numerous accolades, including
multiple Speaker of the Yearawards from Vistage
International and TEC Canada.
Michael, that is a veryimpressive bio's.
A pleasure to have you along forthe short idea.
(01:07):
How are you?
Michael (01:08):
Well, thank you, Paul, for the best British accent too.
That's what I would expect.
It's, do you know whose birthdayit is today?
It's Queen
Paul (01:15):
No.
Michael (01:15):
the one's 497th birthday and she looks great for
her age.
I mean, it's so with thatweighty holiday that we're
celebrating, I feel so honoredthat I'm your guest.
It's great to be with you.
Miss being in the uk.
If I'm gone for a month, I feellike, oh, I need to go back and
speaking with you.
(01:35):
I feel like I'm back.
Paul (01:37):
It's nice to hear.
It's nice to hear because I, Ithink sometimes that, that
divide across the water is morethan we deserve at times.
There are, there's a lot of,certainly East Coast America, as
we were discussing before theshore, new England a lot of my
friends in the, in my local areawould really appreciate the
connections that we have acrossthe pond to you guys.
(01:57):
There's a lot of closenessthere.
Michael (01:59):
I'm waving to you right now.
I'm looking at the pond.
It's right.
Outside my window, and so I'mwaving.
I hope you can see me.
Paul (02:05):
It's a beautiful pond.
It's a beautiful pond.
Michael, I think you are thefirst person that we've had
that's, that started out with abackground in theater
particularly.
So we've had it's amazing howmany people get into marketing
who come from a film background.
Certainly.
And I know that theater, ifanything is film but
exaggerated.
It's more, there has to be moreof a connection in the moment.
(02:28):
So if you would, I'd like tostart back there in, in how you
got involved in theater in thefirst place.
Is it always something that youwanted to do?
Michael (02:35):
I love what you said, Paul Film, but exaggerated or
more in a way Is more authentic.
You say exaggerated?
The incongruity of thatstatement is that it's more real
exaggeration.
We generally think of as fake.
The theater has to be real.
There's no, you can't retake it.
(02:56):
It is in the moment there's aninteraction with a live
audience.
So, in the day, rarely could anactor go back and forth between
theater and film.
Today we see it happening quitefrequently because actors are
stronger and they're studyingmore.
But you notice many film actors.
Are eager to go back and dotheater.
(03:16):
Glenda Jackson, who's one of themost successful film actors, a
two time Academy Award winner,outstanding British film
actress, came back and didBroadway, you know, last year.
Everybody wants to come backbecause of the authenticity, the
realness of it, and I thinkthat's always what attracted me.
Think about who I am, Paul, myparents were born in the US but
(03:40):
their parents were all born inEurope.
I.
And when they came to the US inthose days, you were embarrassed
to be from Europe, and what youdid was you repressed any of
your Euro European heritage.
So it was all aboutassimilation.
You know, it's very differentnow.
(04:00):
My parents parents had toassimilate.
Both my parents were born here,but their older siblings were
not.
So it was about learning alanguage assimilating.
So my parents grew up inhouseholds of low self-esteem.
Basically people who did notfeel they were worthy and worked
hard because, you know, therewere nasty names.
(04:22):
The, you know, the US has itshistory of intolerance.
Everyone thinks what we're doingnow is new.
It's just been, it's historical.
And so.
I know my grandparents were suchlow self-esteem, hardworking
people, and my parents, neitherof my parents graduated from the
10th grade.
my dad tells a story his, hestarted 10th grade school,
(04:45):
finished the first day, and hewent out and put on his football
uniform to do football practice.
And his dad appeared and hesaid, take that off.
What are you doing?
You have to come back and workon the farm.
he grabbed my dad by the year,took him to the farm and my dad
never went back to school.
Flash forward to they have threesons and all they care about is
that dream of educating theirthree sons.
(05:06):
Now I'm in the middle.
I know that will shock youbecause I'm so normal that you
would think, how could I be amiddle child?
I'm a classic middle child andboth my brothers are huge jocks,
multi-talented athletes,multi-sport, and I was the kind
of academic.
(05:28):
guy in the middle.
Now think about like if you grewup in Brighton, I grew up in a
town called Arlington,Massachusetts, suburb of Boston,
where everybody was either Irishor Italian.
You know, there were no blackpeople, no Jewish people.
And if you didn't do sports andyou were a boy, you were called
(05:50):
pretty bad names.
And so there I am, little skinnyme.
Everyone says, oh, you're gonnaplay football like your brother
Joe.
I'm, I really want to like studyand do student council and do
theater, but I didn't have theconfidence to do theater until
my senior year of high school.
I always knew I was attracted toacting, but I just wasn't
(06:14):
confident enough to do it.
And you know what finally mademe confident?
And this is the sad part ofthis, is'cause I had a hot
girlfriend senior year.
So finally I had the confidenceto do theater.
How sad is that?
And so that's when the momentbegan where I finally did this
thing that I kept inside becauseI was afraid I'd be called
(06:36):
names.
And in that moment, eitherconsciously or subconsciously, I
said, I'm gonna make sure otherkids never feel this way.
And they see the power oftheater.
So the first 10 years of mycareer, I was a high school
drama teacher.
think the drive was, I wanted toopen up those kids earlier than
I was opened up for thatincredible opportunity for them
(06:59):
to express themselves to do thatthrough theater.
Because think about what theaterdoes educationally, I.
Paul, you know, you can casteverybody.
If you choose a play and notcharity casting, you choose a
play.
You need the macho dude, and youneed the boy who's gay, who
doesn't know he is gay yet.
need the heavy girl who'sstruggling with her weight, and
(07:22):
you need miss.
Pretty cheerleader girl.
need them all in order to makethe play, and you cast'em in
roles where they shine, wherethey're brilliant.
They learn to love and respecteach other because you can't
make a play if only one person'sgood.
It's like sports in so many waysthat you have to work together
as that team.
(07:42):
that was the magic for me,bringing those kids out.
And then what I was discoveringwas not only was I doing great
things for kids and making themfeel good about themselves, but
I was making great art.
Theater, when you feel goodabout yourself, you make art.
And so our plays, I'm as proudof anything I directed with high
(08:03):
school kids as I, things Idirected with professional
actors in my career.
Stunning pieces where these kidswere brilliant.
so that was, I became selfish atthe end of 10 years, if you
will, and I said, am I gonna behappy?
I'm 80 years old and the parentsare making testimonials about
(08:24):
how I changed their kids' livesand gave me a gold watch, is
that gonna gimme the fulfillmentthat I need?
And so that's when I made thedecision to go get my Master's
of Fine Arts in directingimmerse myself in the
professional theater.
the journey that start.
So it was always in there,probably mother said that I was
(08:46):
dancing as a little kid.
You know, that I would go out inthe street and throw my shoes
off and run through ponds.
And I'm sure I didn't seesinging in the rain with Gene
Kelly when I was four years olddoing that.
But somehow I knew that's what Iwanted to do and I was never
gonna march the same drummer asmy older brother.
Or my dad, the macho fireman.
(09:08):
I always knew I had a singularsong that I wanted to sing.
was just having the strength tosing that song.
Paul (09:14):
I think when you've got that much creative.
The energy sat within you, italways finds a way to leak out
in the end.
You can compress it and hide itand control it for so long, but
I think it always finds a wayout.
But I think that what you saidabout, you know, helping young
people to find their way to letit out at an earlier age and
(09:36):
make it more.
More of a, an accepted path forkids to go without that kind of
negative aspect, that negativeand on.
I completely see where you'recoming from with that.
'cause, you know, even here inthe uk I can see where that is
the same.
We maybe not to use the samewords.
We, at the beginning, maybe notas exaggerated maybe a little
(09:56):
bit more acceptable, but notquite.
If that makes sense.
And the drama kids were alwayseither one end of the spectrum
or the other.
Right?
Was always the kids that justwanted attention or the kids
that really needed to get a bitmore attention but didn't quite
dare and kind of sat there, veryquiet.
And I think it takes acourageous person to help kind
of change young people's.
(10:18):
Perception, I think is the wordI'm looking for.
The young people's perception ofthat, and I think you're
absolutely right.
It takes all sorts.
You need all the angles to dothat.
Michael (10:25):
Courageous on both ends, right Paul?
Because they were
Paul (10:28):
Do
Michael (10:28):
it, Me better think about the skills they were
giving me.
'cause when you direct highschool kids, Paul, you can't
miss a beat.
if you, they're gonna say to youMr.
Aso, in scene three, when Ihanded Paul the Javelin
yesterday, I handed him thejavelin this way.
Today I did it this way.
Which did you think workedbetter?
(10:50):
And if you're not payingattention, you're not honoring
them the way you should.
So they taught me.
To be on my toes, and that'swhere I developed my real
critical faculty Of, My secretsauce, able to look at something
and to tell you in greatspecifics what works and what
doesn't work for it, and howpeople are receiving it.
(11:11):
They taught me how to use thoseskills.
They forced me to use thoseskills.
They demanded that I use thoseskills that I had developed by
sitting as a little introverted.
Kid watching my brother andwatching my dad in a house full
of all these, this swagger beingquiet, I developed observation
(11:31):
skills and then I applied thatto the kids.
And so it was a mutualadmiration society for sure.
Paul (11:38):
So then how did you find that transition from working
with children and young peoplethrough to the more professional
productions that you worked onin later years?
Michael (11:48):
Yeah, was, as I said, vanity, was, man I'm doing great
stuff.
I wanna do this at a higherlevel.
And I also knew that I could,I'm a professional improviser,
so I also knew we, there's.
improv company in Boston when Iwas teaching in high school, we
(12:10):
had as a guest performer in ourschool.
So these four hot actors cameand did improv for the kids, and
my eyes were bulging as Iwatched them.
'cause the little Michael voiceinside said, I can do this, can
definitely do this.
there was kind of a collision.
(12:32):
You know, whether you believe inGod or the cosmos, sometimes
things happen and you thinkthere must be a reason.
So my fireman dad, who is sostrong Dom, dad never sick,
never took a day off.
Paul from the fire stationshowed up every day and was
really proud of that.
(12:53):
He was diagnosed with terminalcancer at the same time that my
ideal marriage.
The woman I married, the woman Ilost my virginity with the woman
I went to the senior prom.
With that, our marriage fizzledpretty much simultaneously with
my dad being diagnosed withcancer terminal cancer.
(13:14):
so this guy who thought he wasgonna have 2.6 children and live
happily ever after teachingdrama suddenly everything got
challenged.
And so.
I felt sorry for myself forabout five minutes, and my
friend Cheryl called me up oneday and said, what?
You know that improv companythat came to your school?
They're re, they want areplacement cast.
(13:37):
They're casting six new actors.
Pick up, get your energy going.
I'm coming to get you and we'regoing to this audition.
So Paul, this was an amazingaudition.
There were hundreds of actors.
All thinking they were funny whowere put up on stage and were
told do a blues song aboutJavelins do a, a country and
(14:01):
western song about the UK Go andyou had no preparation time.
And so the hundreds of peopledid this, and then they narrowed
it down to 26 people come in anddo a lengthy audition.
got there.
And they put us through a day ofropes.
(14:22):
At the end of the day, theyhired 10 people for a week
because they said, thisaudition's not over.
We're gonna pay you a week'ssalary you're gonna do improv
for a week, and we're gonna seewho the six people are.
And four of you're gonna gohome.
And six of gonna say, I mean,this was long before these
reality TV shows.
I was in the reality TV show.
(14:44):
I'm sure you know this about me,Paul.
I'm deeply competitive so therewas no way now that I had made
it to this point that I wasgonna be one of those four
people.
so that competitive thing I.
Drove me and I got cast as oneof these six new professional
improvisers for this companywhere you, and you understand
(15:06):
what professional improv is.
You stand on stage, an audiencecomes in and you say, what's
something you like to do in yourspare time?
And someone says ski in theAlps.
And suddenly you're doing ascene or a song about skiing in
the Alps.
Immediately you have a tinylittle huddle time and away you
go.
was a major transition for me.
That told me that I had theseprofessional skills, and that
(15:29):
was as I was rounding, I think Iwas past the midpoint of my
teaching career.
So I did the professional improvand taught at the same time,
which was huge.
Was hard to balance those two.
And so that was a huge catalyst.
And so that with pride andlooking at these beautiful
plays.
And of course I'm, I said I'mcompetitive.
(15:51):
We entered festivals.
We didn't just do'em forourselves and we won festivals
and that's it.
You know, you have those kidssuddenly who were socially
awkward.
Suddenly they're going to dramafestivals and winning
transformational.
I'm saying if I can do that forkids, what can I do for adults I
(16:13):
can change the world so thatmore people are seeing these
pieces of theater?
Are upping their joy, uppingtheir commitment to a moment.
Theater is magical.
When you attend a play that'sexcellent, you leave the theater
and your life has changed.
I'm all about enriching lives.
So I think that was the of therecipe for what this move was
(16:35):
for that.
'cause remember chapter one,high school Drama teacher,
chapter two, Mr.
Show Business.
I know where you're going.
Chapter three, like away we go.
But you see how the first twosteps made sense for who I was.
Paul (16:50):
Absolutely on.
It's clear that from a young ageyou knew what your why was.
Your why.
That we, you know, we talk aboutthis all the time now.
Your why, and it's a big part ofthis season, right?
Like discovering what it is thatmakes you unique in your space.
And it's rare to meet somebodyto be fair that kind of.
I guess even if you couldn't, ifsomebody had articulated it to
(17:11):
you and said why do you do whatyou do?
You probably, at least at theearly part of that, I wouldn't
have known why you do what youdo, just that you enjoy it.
It was a passion and you wereworking on your passion.
But it's clear now that you knowthroughout that entire thing
that the one theme that kept yougoing was that the impact that
you were having on otherpeople's lives and your ability
to.
(17:32):
Transform what they wereexperiencing, what they were
doing, how they were perceivingit through your arts, through
the arts that you were helpingother people with.
And I think that's a beautifulgift to be able to give to
people.
You're right.
Phase three is kind of where I'mmost curious because that feels
like a career.
All of what you've discussedfeels like a lifelong career.
(17:52):
At what point did you decidethat you then wanted to help
business owners?
I.
Like, how did you transitionfrom a successful director,
actor, you know, all theseaward-winning productions.
I can imagine you've had anamazing experience.
You met some fantastic actorsand and performers.
(18:12):
Why did you transition from thatto business leaders?
Michael (18:15):
I believe when you are really excellent at what you do
and you heighten the stakes likeyou, one of the things I respect
about you is that this podcast,as we prepared for it,
critically important to you.
I didn't feel like you had elsein your life but me that this
was all about you and mecreating this podcast and making
(18:39):
it excellent so that yourcommunity would be lifted and
enriched.
So that's, in theater we callthat heightening the stakes.
if I'm coaching you and Leo in ascene, a father son scene in a
play, and I think you're sortof, into it, I'll say, Hey Paul,
come on.
Heighten your stakes.
(18:59):
I believe when you heighten yourstakes, magic happens.
people are very interested andin love with people who heighten
their stakes.
It's very charismatic and peopleare smarter than you give them
credit for.
They do all the heavy liftingfor you.
I didn't decide, oh, I'm gonnabe a business coach.
(19:20):
Others did.
So think about it.
High school drama teacher.
You can imagine how committedand passionate I was.
You know, that first marriagefell apart, probably partially
because of my completecommitment to those high school
kids.
My rehearsal room door wasalways open parents would stray
(19:40):
in and watch rehearsals.
Paul, one of those parentsturned out to be the corporate
shrink of a major utilitycompany in the UK and in New
England.
I don't know how many years ormonths this was afterwards, he
called me and he said, Michael,I watched how you coached my
(20:01):
daughter, Sabrina and her peers.
Do you think you could translatethose skills coaching a CEO?
Because I'm the corporate shrinkof this utility company and I'm
running out of things to do withmy CEO.
Do you think you could translatethose skills to that you know me
well enough, Paul?
I'm not big on the no word.
(20:22):
That's why I'm doing thispodcast with you, you know?
So I said, oh, yeah, sure, I cando that.
Well, when I hung up with him, Iwent and looked up CEO in the
dictionary.
Does your viewership know what adictionary is?
Yeah.
So I didn't even know what A CEOwas.
What's a CEO?
They brought me in.
Paul HR interviewed me for threehours on straight back chairs
(20:45):
like this.
It was like a grilling, Ithought I was going to prison.
At the end of the three hours,they not only gave me the CEO to
coach, but the nine VPs in lineto be the next in, in uk you
call them more managingdirectors, I guess, in line to
be the next big shot because theCEO had already announced that
he was leaving.
(21:06):
So yes, they not only gave himthe CEO to coach but these other
nine people.
So all of a sudden Mr.
Show business.
Is coaching these 10 hot shotsand telling them what to do.
I had lots of imposter syndromeback then, but I kept plucking
through and doing the things,coaching them the same way I had
coached actors.
(21:27):
One of them turned out to be inthis leadership group and he
said, I need to hire you to cometo observe me in this leadership
group.
So I went with my trustee legalpad that I always have, and I
took notes through the wholemeeting.
They were about to process aconfidential issue.
(21:49):
The chair of the group dismissedme, and as I was walking out the
door, he said, Hey, you took alot of notes.
Read those notes.
And I said, oh, well, my notesfrom my client are confidential.
He said, bull, you are takingnotes about everybody.
So this was in Boston.
And he said, read'em, spill'em.
I read all my notes.
(22:09):
Paul, I, it was either thatnight or the next day, he called
me and he said, I want you to bea speaker.
He said, I'm gonna hire you formy two.
This was spring fall of 2003.
He said, January, 2004.
You're gonna lead off the yearspeaking to my two groups.
I'm gonna send you thepaperwork.
This was part of VistageInternational that you talked
(22:30):
about in my intro.
The, and it's in the uk andthere are so many splinter
groups, but basically it's anorganization that's worldwide
that gets, people, see leadersof companies to sit in a room.
You have, you know, 14 to 20disparate groups.
And they meet monthly.
And I started on the speakercircuit.
(22:52):
Of that, that January, 2004,because of the goodness of this
chair, he saw it in me, and Icreated you on your best day
overnight.
My 35 secret weapons to help yoube you on your best day
overnight.
You know?
And I say created overnight.
I put it pen to paper overnight.
This was something I was livingmy whole life.
I simply translated what I haddone in my career with kids, my
(23:14):
career with theater.
So you see how coachingexecutives is a collision.
the educational theater worldand the professional theater
world.
those same skills that I hadbeen working on in both of
those, both for myself and intransferring those skills to
others was what I used forexecutives, the rest is history.
(23:34):
I did his first two groups.
He went on this thing calledChair Net where he gossiped
about me.
Someone else picked me up andbefore long.
That's how I got to the UK sooften.
Hallelujah.
You know, was because of thatorganization.
And then other people met me andbrought me in for other things.
the here I am, all because of ahigh school drama rehearsal,
(23:58):
Paul.
So Paul here's the thing, why,what ha, why did I get to where
I am?
Because I don't believe in thefour letter word.
Just, I never said, ah, it'sjust a rehearsal.
They're just high school kids.
It's a rehearsal.
high school kids.
not just doing a podcast thismorning.
(24:19):
I'm doing a podcast with Paul.
When you heighten the stakes,magic happens.
Paul (24:25):
I ab, this is one of my favorite conversations.
I've thoroughly enjoyed this.
A lot of people talk aboutpersonal brand these days,
right?
Personal brands become somethinga lot of people roll their eyes
at.
I don't wanna be a thoughtleader.
I don't wanna be an influencer.
I don't want to have a personalbrand.
And I think what you are provingto all of us is that we have a
(24:46):
personal brand, whether we likeit or not, and a personal brand
is not something that you'vejust.
Have on LinkedIn.
It's not something that you justhave on any social media
platform.
It's how people perceive youwhen you are not in the room.
It's how people you work with,your family, your friends.
It's how you turn up.
(25:06):
And I think you've verysuccinctly drawn a line under
why that's important for all ofus in that.
How we do anything is how we doeverything.
And that's one of the corethings I've always raised my
kids on, right?
You're gonna go and train forfootball, practice, you train,
but train as if you're in agame.
Don't train like you're here topass some time for half an hour.
(25:29):
And it's fun.
Train like you're in a gamebecause when the game comes, you
don't wanna make those mistakes.
You wanna make them now, but youwon't make those mistakes now if
you don't train hard.
I'm, we can apply that to lotsand lots of things.
So I love your philosophy aroundall of that.
Talk us a little bit through youon your best day, if you would
like.
What are the, what's the core tothat?
Michael (25:48):
how we do anything is how we do everything.
I love that.
I'll
Paul (25:53):
can't clear ownership for that.
I heard that somewhere else aswell.
Michael (25:56):
All right, fair enough.
And I'll be glad to talk aboutyou and your best day.
The people who are nervous aboutbeing thought leaders, maybe
translated to action leader, youknow, because you and your best
day.
What's real important to us asdirectors, as actors is the word
objective a noun, not as anadjective.
(26:17):
So most of my coaching startswith what's your objective?
I did that with you thismorning.
I said, you know, what's theobjective of the, of this
podcast?
So we define objective as whatdo you want the audience to
leave and do the end of theevent?
Not think, not feel, but do.
(26:37):
What do you want people to do?
And so once I know theobjective.
Then I'm able to serve you andto serve the podcast.
So in theater we have anotherthing.
So objective is your desiredresult.
By the end of the meeting Iwant, we have this other thing
called super objective.
super objective is what theobjective sits under.
(26:59):
It's what we want on ourtombstone.
So mine is secret weapon number35 of the 35 that every single
human being I meet, whether it'syou during this podcast.
it is the cab driver, whether itis my family member, they're
gonna be better after meetingme.
And so that's what carries methrough a day.
(27:22):
And that's the philosophy behindyou and your best day.
The most important word isauthenticity.
And what most people strugglewith is they wanna challenge me.
Well, if you're excellent allthe time, that can't be
authentic.
You know, you just have to.
So I say, well.
What those people do is theyplay the obstacle instead of
playing the objective.
(27:43):
Do you understand thatdistinction, Paul?
So people under the guise ofauthenticity say, well, my back
hurts today, so how is itauthentic for me?
okay, Mr.
Crabby, your back may hurt.
That's the obstacle.
What's your objective?
What's your authentic objective?
My objective's, my team toproduce today.
They gotta produce.
Well, can we think about thetactics you need to create
(28:06):
authentically to get your peopleto produce and whining about
your back is certainly not oneof them.
It's all you have to do is go toa restaurant once and have the
server come to you and say, oh,I'm so tired.
You're my last table.
I can't wait for this day to beover to realize that.
Wait a minute, would anyonebring.
(28:30):
An authentic self that's bad tosomeone else.
What is the point in that?
Why would you do that?
It takes the same amount ofenergy to bring your best
authentic self.
It's not an energy difference.
It takes, what are all thosecliches about how many muscles
it takes to frown and how manymuscles it takes to smile.
(28:50):
And so seeing underachieve,seeing people achieve.
magic in a room.
Seeing that balance tells youwhat you wanna do.
So what I strive to be is mybest every day.
Now, am I perfect far from it?
It's not about perfection atall.
It's about clarifying anobjective and then going after
(29:11):
it with your whole heart andsoul.
And so when I realized thatpeople play the obstacle pretty
regularly, well, I think 2008,2008.
So I coach a lot of constructionteams.
So this is a typicalconversation, Paul.
You know, the owner of aconstruction company would say,
a minute, Michael, I just laidoff four people today, so you
(29:34):
expect me to go in all Michael,aso happy tomorrow.
How is that authentic?
So I take my chill pills and Ibreathe and I say, I ask
questions.
Is your authentic objectivetomorrow to make the people left
standing mourn?
People that you just laid off.
No.
your authentic objectivetomorrow to make the people left
(29:56):
standing nervous that they'rethe next ones that are gonna be
fired?
No.
No.
No.
Or is your authentic objectivetomorrow to make the people left
standing do the same amount ofwork they've always done, if not
more for the same amount ofmoney, if not less so that you
can get your company out of thisthing and start putting food on
people's tables?
(30:17):
Yeah.
That's the authentic human beingthat you bring to the workplace.
That's you on your best day.
Think theater, Paul.
So we're doing a play, you know,and today's the first rehearsal
of the play and you get yourscript and it says Paul walks
across the stage drunk,approaching Michael.
(30:37):
And so you come up and you go,oh Michael, are you?
I go, Ugh.
Paul, what are you doing that'sso fake.
I.
You say, well, Michael, thescript says that I'm drunk.
Paul, when you're drunk, whatusually is your objective?
What are you usually trying toget people to think?
Usually people are trying toshow that they're not drunk,
(30:59):
that they're able, you know,I've been in pubs in the uk, you
guys should know this betterthan us.
You know, it's like, so it's no,you don't play drunk, playing.
Drunk is playing the adjective.
You play the action.
what you and your best day isall about is creating a series
of actions with intentionalityevery day.
(31:20):
That heightens your excellencerather than playing the
obstacle, we know what theobstacle is.
Let's play the action, let'splay the objective and come up
with tactics that help us winthat objective.
All my training when I do youand your best day programs is
always gonna include a littlebit of improv, a little bit of
theater, because it's aboutgoing outside your comfort zone.
(31:42):
would you wanna do the samething you've always done?
Why would I wanna stay a highschool drama teacher my whole
life?
Why would I wanna stay aprofessional director,
choreographer my whole life?
always about, yes and improv.
So yes, you are a crabby,serious CEO.
Okay, fine.
I accept that.
And what else?
So"yes, and" is the core ofimprov, Paul?
(32:03):
So if I'm doing an improv withyou and I say, Ooh Paul, there's
a spider on your shoulder.
can't say There is that.
You have to say, oh yeah, it'smy friend Phil.
You wanna meet him?
Or you have to say ah, get himoff.
That's yes.
And same about life.
Okay.
You're crabby and your backhurts.
Yes.
And what else?
And I wanna make my team bettertoday.
(32:25):
Yes.
I'm a coach, one-on-one coach ofexecutives.
Yes.
And I wanna do workshops andkeynotes and do creative events
that make people come to lifemore.
Yes.
And I don't do subtraction.
I only do addition.
Paul (32:38):
Michael.
I've thoroughly enjoyed theconversation from one end into
the other, and I think we couldprobably do another three or
four hours quite easily.
I love running these podcastsbecause I kind of feel that way
about a lot of my guests.
We have some phenomenalpersonalities on.
One last, one last question foryou then before we wrap things
up to date, which is the word oneveryone's lips right now is ai,
(33:02):
particularly chat, GPT digitaltools.
And I'd imagine coming from atheatrical background, you have
some very specific strongfeelings on the subject and how
it's used and trended.
With the rise of ai what do youthink leaders should be doing
now?
To make sure that theircommunication evolves to come in
line with that ai.
Like what are the pitfalls thatyou'd like to see them avoid,
(33:24):
and how can they really excel atwhat they're doing.
Michael (33:26):
Don't forget.
Yes and.
So what I'm seeing happening iswhat happens to my own team.
I have a whopping four employeesso I give an assignment Wendy,
she's in San Francisco, she's mysteer of the ship.
hands a thing back to me and Isay, oh, you used chat GBT for
this, didn't you?
And she said, how'd you know?
(33:48):
GBT is wonderful and I want youto continue to use it.
Yes.
And.
And when Wendy's on her a game,she takes the chat GBT and
Wendy's it up, and she adds thathumanity.
So even though that's asimplistic example, that's the
answer to your question.
human beings, I believe and callme naive, will never go outta
(34:12):
style.
We were always gonna be needed.
That's my passionate belief.
And if we reject technologyunder some provincial thing,
that no one is better than ahuman being, well, how silly is
that?
wouldn't even find my way fromhere to the, my next gig I use
technology all the time.
Look what we're doing right now.
The magic of speaking across thepond like this, it's yes hand.
(34:36):
How do we embrace all the newtechnology and always not,
sometimes, always dose it withhumanity.
How can you create recipes thatinclude the technology and the
humanity to give you yourdistinct voice?
Now, in order to do that, youneed to know what your core
values are.
You need to know what your superobjective is.
(34:56):
What, do you, why?
Why are you on this earth?
What is the difference you wannamake?
Then that's what you inject inthe human being.
you have people who know how touse the technology and insert
their personality as well, thinkabout that dynamic recipe you
have for success.
all I'm all in, I'm nottechnology is one of, certainly
(35:20):
one of my weakest things, andyou always have to know what
you're weak at so that you, haveother people helping you.
do.
And I embrace the technology.
I embrace that I need to knowmore and I use it to make me
better.
deleting me.
I never wanna remove me from therecipe you and your best day
from me.
(35:40):
My brand is me.
What?
And that's why it's kind ofcircular.
And I know you did this onpurpose'cause you're so
brilliant, that initialconjecture you had about people
rejecting and wanna having havetheir own brand.
If you don't understand what youstand for, how do you know how
to modulate technology?
if you don't know who you are,then the technology is gonna
(36:01):
take you over rather than youare embracing the technology and
using it to augment you.
Makes sense
Paul (36:09):
It is a beautiful summary.
I love it.
Thank you very much, Michael.
It's been a genuine pleasure tohave you on the show today,
thank you very much for takingthe time.
And if folks are li listeningalong and they'd like to learn
more, maybe they'd like to hireyour services or just understand
your methodology a bit more, howcan they best contact you or
find that information out?
Michael (36:28):
Yeah, go to my website, YouOnYourBestDay.com.
I'll tell you, a lot of my UKbrothers and sisters link in
with me.
I dunno if I ever told you this.
I do a different outgoingvoicemail message every single
day.
I've been doing that for about45 years.
Two of them.
One on my cell phone, one on myhome office.
So I create 730 differentoutgoing voicemail messages
(36:51):
every year of my life.
It's one of the ways to keep mecreative.
So Wendy, the heretoforementioned Wendy.
I hired her in 2020.
She's, by the way, a formerdrama student of mine.
That's how I met her.
I met her when she was 13 yearsold.
She
Paul (37:06):
Amazing.
Michael (37:06):
lives in Francisco and she.
When I hired her in 2020, shesaid, you're so dumb, man.
Like these messages that you'vebeen creating, they get erase.
The next day.
I'm gonna chronicle them, putthem in a library, and I want
you to video them.
You pick one of the two, eitheryour cell phone or the home
phone.
You're gonna video them as youdo them, and we're sending them
(37:29):
out to your universe.
So that put more pressure on meto actually look half decent
when I do it.
Think about what locale I'm in.
And so now my UK folks arewatching those videos, India's
ahead of you.
So when I wake up in themorning, my phone is exploding.
First with my buddies in Indiawho say, today's message was
(37:49):
very good, better thanyesterday.
And then the UK people saying,oh yes, this was.
A little less boring thanyesterday.
So I get my feedback as it comesfor the West, across the pond,
and it's so much fun.
And I was totally exaggerating,but the UK folks are so,
actually, they're better thanthe Americans of telling me
(38:11):
what's good and that, see,that's a myth about the UK
brother.
Is that every time I come to theuk, oh, Michael, we're not
effusive here.
We don't call people out forexcellence the way you do bull.
When I'm in the UK I get suchbeautiful, specific and to this
day, my messages from my UKbuddies, constituents, clients.
(38:35):
I think is actually verypowerful.
And so I was totally making ajoke about, yes, better than
yesterday, about boring.
No that's more don't get megoing on Americans.
So that's what I want your teamsto do is start with that then
think about the services I offerare one-on-one coaching, which
(38:57):
all over the world workshopswhere I love going, gimme any
excuse to come to the uk please.
And then once a year, andsomeday you have to do this big
guy for two and a half days hereon the coast of Maine, I do a
retreat.
And so this year, it's September9th through 11, no, September
11th through 13th, two and ahalf days of sheer improv.
(39:18):
And I do it on a farm here inMaine where there are goats and
chickens.
And it's exercise afterexercise, getting you to go
outside your comfort zone andapplying that to leadership.
There's a giant barn on thisfarm that has a stage.
It's quite lovely farm and theowner of the farm is also a
gourmet cook who cooks for uswhile we're there.
(39:40):
So it's this incredibleadventure for two and a half
days that really is me at mybest, where I pull out
everything that, that collision,we talked about, all the
careers, and then people takethat and apply it to their life,
their career, a book they'rewriting, the workshops they're
leading.
Thank you for asking me that,Paul.
Super sweet of you.
Paul (39:59):
I'm so I'm so pleased that we had you on as a guest today,
Michael.
It's brought such a smile at myface and it's.
Really, I've genuinely enjoyedthe conversation.
Lovely to have you along.
Thank you very much, and you areabsolutely welcome to come back
for a round two at some time aswell.
And people at home, thank youvery much for watching along.
I'm sure you've been bothentertained and have learned
something very substantial todayas well.
(40:20):
I've really enjoyed the pointsthat Michael's made and I hope
that it makes a big differencein your own corporate life, your
personal life.
And if nothing else that you'veenjoyed and had fun today, which
I think is important now andagain as well.
Right.
Take care and I will see younext week.
Bye-bye.
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