October 15, 2025 • 29 mins
Enjoying the Show? Share Your Experience!
What if self-promotion is killing your business?
In this episode of MarketPulse: Pros and Pioneers, we welcome Frank Agin, founder of AmSpirit Business Connections and an authority on building value through meaningful relationships. Frank challenges the way we think about networking, referrals, and how true growth happens in business.
He shares why credentials aren't enough, why self-promotion fails, and how generosity (done right) can actually build a thriving business. From buying the competition to understanding why people really refer others, Frank's insights are a masterclass in strategy, authenticity, and lasting connections.
You'll also hear his thoughts on giving without losing, how to become referrable without asking, and why feeling dumb is a signal that needs to be heard — not hidden.
If you're ready to build smarter relationships, grow faster, and stop chasing the wrong kind of attention — this episode is essential listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
Do you think your network isn't working?
(00:02):
This episode unpacks?
Why your referrals have dried upand how to build a business that
runs on trust, not transactions.
Frank Agin is the founder andpresident of AmSpirit Business
Connections referral focusednetworking organization that
helps small businesses growthrough trusted professional
relationships.
(00:23):
He's a lawyer by training and aCPA by background.
Frank pivoted from Corporate TaxConsulting to entrepreneurship
over 25 years ago afterrealizing that connection, not
compliance was his real passion.
Through AMSpirit, his podcast,Networking Rx, and multiple
books on relationship building.
(00:43):
Frank has become a go-to voicefor professionals who want to
build their voice and businessthrough real human connections,
not cold pitches.
Frank, it's been a long timecoming.
Welcome to the show, my friend.
Frank (00:56):
Yeah, this is take two.
The audience doesn't know wetried to do this once and ran
into some technical issues, sothere,
Paul (01:03):
Well.
Frank (01:03):
the Atlantics separating us, right?
Paul (01:05):
And technology more at the point.
Yeah.
Technology.
So yeah, I, I have to if theaudience are watching along on
this I've been featured onFrank's fantastic podcast twice
now.
So many thanks to you for havingme on the show.
And finally, I realised that mypodcast that I'm currently
running was a great fit for youas well because you have an
(01:26):
interesting background and storyand.
As we've discussed a lot on thisshow we might not get where we
thought we were gonna be, but wecertainly end up where we're
meant to and I'm looking forwardto digging into a little bit of
that journey of yours, Frank,today.
Because to be honest, it's notsomething we've ever spoke about
privately either.
So be interesting to understanda bit more about your journey.
(01:47):
You started in law andaccounting.
Why would you do that toyourself, Frank?
Frank (01:51):
Well, no, that's a good question.
I ask myself that question allthe time.
My dad asked me that questiontoo.
You know, can't believe you everdid that.
That's so not you.
You know, I, my, my dad was aprofessor, my mom was an
educator, and so I grew up in ahousehold where eductaion do
well.
That's the ticket.
And so you go off to college andyou do well, and they, well, you
(02:12):
need to, you know, go to gradschool, go on.
And I'm like, well, I'll go tolaw school.
I'll, you know, go get a, anMBA, I'll get a professional
degree, I'll get an advanceddegree.
And then you, it's kind of afallacy you think, you know, the
more you move up, the more youropportunities.
And in many ways it really kindof narrows them.
You start to pigeonhole yourselfand you're taking a lot of tax
(02:34):
classes and then you're kind of,you know, you're earmarked as a
tax person.
It's like, How this is supposedto work.
And and then you get out there,you get the offer letter and I'm
making good money.
And while this is great and andthen after a while you realise
okay, this isn't fun.
Is not this can't be the next 40years of my life.
So that's how it really allbegan.
(02:56):
And I think that story in issimilar for a lot of people
because when we're coming outof, you know, in, in the United
States High School on tocollege, it's like, we, you need
to start making these lifedecisions you don't really even
know what, you know, you don'treally even know what you wanna
do.
Paul (03:13):
No.
Frank (03:14):
so that's how I ended up in that.
Paul (03:16):
What was the moment?
Was there a trigger for you whenenough was enough?
Frank (03:21):
Y Yeah, it was a couple years in.
There was a trigger, but I wassmart enough to know that, you
know what?
I need to plan.
I can't just leave.
I need to have a plan.
I need to know where I want togo.
I was al always been veryentrepreneurial.
As a kid, I would sell.
I.
We lived in a tourist area.
We sell worms right night,crawlers, we call'em you know,
basically have a sign on theroad and people would pay 35
(03:43):
cents, a dozen or three dozensfor a dollar or three dozen for
a dollar or something like that.
And I was very entrepreneurial.
And I knew that I kind of wantedto control my own destiny.
And so I planned and plannedfiguring, okay, I have this law
degree.
I don't hate being a lawyer.
And there's lots of differentthings that you can do being a
lawyer, you know, here's tax,here's all the stuff, right?
(04:06):
Here's all the business stuff.
some of it's, you know, reallykind of exciting.
And so probably about six yearsinto it I finally just said,
okay, I've gotta do this.
'cause at some point you just,you have to make the leap,
right?
You've been there.
I know I want to, I'm, it'snever simple, right?
Where you're just leaving andall of a sudden you're replacing
your income overnight.
It's never that simple.
(04:27):
I left and I tell people that afunny thing happened to me when
I went into what I call theprivate practice of law.
And the funny thing was thatNOTHING happened.
I had No idea how to getclients.
They don't teach you that.
I just figured got thisexperience, a great experience.
e I had these credentials.
I had a law degree, I had agraduate business degree, I had
(04:49):
a certified public accountingdegree certification.
Who wouldn't want me, whowouldn't wanna take me on Right.
To help them?
is right.
'cause I didn't have all theoverhead of the big firm and,
and you know.
It just didn't happen.
It's, and it's not supposed to,but I had lunch one day with a
friend and I was just kindalamenting, you know, where I was
(05:11):
at.
And she had taken a differentpath outta law school and had
started her own firm.
So she didn't really have anincome to replace.
She could just right from thebeginning, start to build this
thing up.
I just said, how do I get towhere you're at?
And she just gave me somesuggestions.
One of the suggestions was.
Get into a TIPS club or a leadsgroup like A BNI, I really had
(05:32):
no idea what she was talkingabout, but there was an
organization that was juststarting groups here in, in the
Columbus, where I'm at Columbus,Ohio Central part of the United
States.
It wasn't BNI.
It was very similar to BNI.
I went to a meeting and it madetotal sense that I could lift my
whole world up, just helpingother people.
(05:54):
Networking, right?
I had no idea what networkingwas.
And I took to it like a fish towater because it's so easy for
me to promote other people andjust painful to self-promote,
just, it's just hard.
And that's not true ofeverybody, but most people don't
(06:14):
wanna spend a whole lot of timeself-promoting you.
You really put yourself at risk.
Of either sounding obnoxious orbeing challenged.
And so I had, you know, got intothis organization, it was doing,
didn't it?
I mean, it wasn't an overnightsuccess, but I at least had a, I
had a plan at that point.
I could start to work thisgroup.
(06:36):
I could start to build theserelationships and, make a long
story short, it was probablyanother six years, but I had the
opportunity to buy theorganization and I did.
And that's, and at that point Isaid, you know, I don't, you
know, I enjoy practicing law,but there are new attorneys are
graduating every year, thousandsof them.
(06:59):
And there's nothing unique aboutit.
And so, and you're really notbuilding anything.
You're getting clients andyou're serving clients with the
networking organization, whichyou've mentioned is called
AMSpirit Business Connections.
I can.
Build something, I can createcontent that has meaning.
And you know, it's just you'rebuilding a brand, you're
(07:21):
building a following.
So
Paul (07:23):
I think that's.
I think that's true for anybodywho works in what are typically
quite undifferentiated spaces,right?
Nobody comes to a lawyer becausethey've got nice problems.
Right?
Nobody comes to an accountantbecause they love the idea of
having an accountant.
Nobody, you know, there's,there, there are necessary evils
in the world.
World and unfortunately lawyersand accountants and such are in
(07:45):
that ball.
We have, we couldn't livewithout them, but they're
absolutely really tough to.
Differentiate and I guess youmeet some fascinating people, I
have no doubt.
But like in those early days,like I'm guessing imposter
syndrome and the fear that youweren't enough must have been
quite heavy on your shoulders,right?
Frank (08:04):
Well, sure.
I when I think that's alwaysthere because none of us have.
None of us have the sameexperiences.
And so the second you hear aboutsomebody else's experience, it's
like, Ooh, done this, and this,but I didn't do this.
You know?
So, and we just assume they'vedone all these other things.
(08:24):
In reality, this might've beenthe only thing they ever done.
And they're looking at ussaying, wow, all this, here's
all this stuff I haven't Yeah, Imean, there was, you know,
there's certainly the wholenotion of imposter syndrome.
I mean, I, you know, we I stillrun into it, you know, I look at
other people and I think theinternet lends itself well to
fueling that sort of, sorts offeelings.
(08:48):
And you just have to realiseokay, you know, I hear what
they're saying.
Chances are they didn't do thatin six months.
They just didn't, you know.
I don't
Paul (08:58):
Or it's not the full picture.
Yeah.
Frank (09:01):
I don't have the time to check.
I don't want to take the time.
It doesn't matter.
I'm doing what I need to do.
Paul (09:08):
So you talked earlier about the good feeling and the
lifting yourself up.
I think you described it as bythrough networking.
For those people who werewatching along, who still, I
mean, we were fortunate enough afew weeks ago to have the
fantastic Bob Berg on the showRight.
So, I'm absolutely, you know,anybody who listens to me talk
knows that I'm in on what youare talking about to here I love
(09:30):
it.
I love adding that value,helping people, networking.
What is it, what were yourworries when you first started
out on that trip though?
Because at the beginning we allkind of.
Have this concern that, or Ithink most people do that we
don't have anything to give inreturn.
We're networking with people,but what's my value that I'm
(09:51):
going to add other than theobvious?
Frank (09:53):
Yeah.
Well, and I think that'ssomething that people need to
come to grips with is that we dohave value.
I mean, I tell people all thetime, the biggest thing you have
to offer to your network is yournetwork itself, right?
it's like I've introduced you topeople.
I'm not trying to pat myself onthe back, but it's like I know
(10:14):
that there are people in myworld that could help you and
you could help them.
And so I'm gonna try and makethose introductions.
doesn't cost me anything.
I could be the broker, right?
Hey, Paul, if I'm gonna connectyou with Marise you guys have
your conversation through me.
well thats a waste of time, youknow?
And nobody wants to deal likethat, so it's just easier to
(10:37):
kind of make the connections.
But you just in, in time, youstart to realise that you do
have things to offer.
You know, it's well, I've hadthis experience, this one and
this one, but not this, youknow, I can help somebody with
these experiences and they canhelp me with this.
And of times people look atnetworking as kind of this.
You hear the notion need to givebefore you get, it's like, well
(10:59):
that doesn't make sense becauseI'll end up, you know, I'll end
up broke.
well, no, you're giving awaythings that are replaceable or
that don't deplete you givingsomebody information or making a
connection for somebody.
It doesn't deplete me.
I'm just sharing what I have.
(11:19):
whereas if you're giving money,then yeah, you're gonna be
depleted.
You know, so it's just kind ofcoming, you know, coming to,
just realizing that you havethese things in your life.
You have experiences, you haveconnections and those are real
value that you can hand out toother people.
Paul (11:36):
So as you went along, building that..
I guess you could call it acommunity, right?
Network or community, whateveryou want to, whatever you want
to class it as coming from thebackground that you had and you
know, we all know that lawyersand accountants traditionally
earn quite good money.
It's far from a poor man's tradeor a poor woman's trade.
(11:56):
Was there a time when you justkind of sat there and thought,
what am I doing?
It's just like.
I should go back and be a lawyerlike,'cause the money's much
better than what I'm doing now,or it's, there was a more
defined career path.
And if I'd stayed as a partnerat a, you know, I could have
made partner by now or I hadWhat were your thoughts on
there?
Was were the moments of doubt?
(12:52):
I.
Frank (12:52):
Well there, I mean, there've always been moments of
doubt.
Yeah.
There were mo moments of doubtearly on.
Really early on there were,because I, you know, the, I had
spent enough time doing taxes.
I had a real specialisation Ihad a real skill set that w was,
and still is in demand.
I mean, it's, my skill setsgone.
(13:12):
It's atrophy.
The laws have changed.
But at that time there was areal skill set and I had
companies reaching out saying,we understand you're available.
Would you be interested comingto work?
And you have to do a little bitof soul searching and say, okay.
Are you gonna be happy?
And the answer is no.
I'm not gonna be happy.
(13:33):
I'll be happy on payday.
You know?
But payday comes depending uponwhere you're at once a month,
once every other week.
You know, it's it, you know,it's
Paul (13:43):
I don't even think we're happy on payday.
Honestly.
I don't even think we're happyon payday.
You don't even notice it comein.
You don't even notice it comein.
There's no worry that it's gonnacome in.
I guess that's, that is a bonusof being in one of those kind of
jobs like.
I don't really worry that I'mgonna lose my job until it
actually happens.
Let's be fair.
'cause it does happen.
And, but now you're a master ofyour own destiny and the power
(14:03):
to prevent that happenings inyour grasp.
And I lo I love,
Frank (14:07):
Yeah.
Paul (14:07):
certainly from my perspective, I think that's huge
for me.
Marketing through referrals,then?
Talk us through what's yourapproach to referral based
marketing?
Frank (14:17):
Well, I think the f you know, for me, number one, you
have to be willing to help otherpeople.
You have to be willing to addvalue to other people.
That's that's the first thing.
and we've kind of already talkedabout, there's lots of ways you
can add value.
I.
The second thing you need to dois you need to be really clear
on the types of things that youwant.
You know, who are, you know, whoare the people you serve, and
(14:39):
when do you serve them?
And letting the people aroundyou know that.
and to be honest, Paul, I thinkthat's probably the biggest
mistake or the biggest problempeople run into, is they assume
that everybody understands whatthey're about.
And.
Don't, and people are just toonice to say anything.
I was talking to human relationsperson last week.
(15:00):
Consultant had their ownbusiness.
And yo I do I'm an HR person,and she just kind of talked in
these terms and just assumedthat I would catch onto them.
And I pushed back on her.
Well, I explained to her, Isaid, you know, I wanna help
you.
I like you.
But I don't understand what youmean.
And have all these stories youcan tell that can help paint a
(15:22):
picture for how I could referyou.
But you choose to tell all thesestories in one 32nd commercial,
and my brain doesn't hang ontothat one 32nd commercial.
But if you tell me a couple ofthese stories, my brain will
hang onto those.
And her, of course, her responseis, well, how do I know what
(15:43):
stories to tell?
And you know, what if I tellthese three and really the
opportunity is the fourth?
Well, that's a risk you run.
But when you're doing theblanket 32nd commercial, I miss
everything.
So you might as well take achance on these.
And the reality is you know,when you go to a networking
event, somebody asks, what doyou do?
(16:03):
You need to be ready with ananswer.
Right?
This is what Javelin's allabout, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And you feel like, okay, I'vemissed the opportunity.
in reality, nobody does businesson that first meeting anyway,
right?
It's the second meeting.
It's the third meeting whereyou're really getting to know
one another, and that's when youhave the opportunity to kind of
really dial into the stories,you know?
(16:24):
Well, as an attorney, these arethe kinds of things I do, you
know?
Oh, I didn't realise that.
You know, I didn't realise thatwas part of being a lawyer.
Everyone thinks going to courtis what lawyers do and most
don't.
so that's, you know, really thesecond piece of getting or
marketing for referrals.
And then the third thing is thatyou need to educate your network
(16:44):
on how to talk about you whenyou are not there, you know?
So, Paul, I like you, right?
And you've told me aboutJavelin.
I get a sense as to what you'relooking for.
I come across somebody that's agood fit for you, you know, me
liking you is in my heart, meknowing what you're about is in
my head.
But until something comes out ofmy mouth and says, you know
(17:07):
what?
There's a guy I need tointroduce you to, lemme tell you
a little about him.
thats kind of the last piece.
Then the, that's what makes thereferral happen.
So it's really those threethings that need to happen.
Paul (17:18):
And I think a lot of the time we probably have an idea.
Here that's what we need to do.
But then people back off fromthat because it feels, oh, I
don't know.
It feels a bit uncomfortable todo that.
'cause it kind of feels likeyou're asking of people, but you
are.
The thing that people don'trealise is that quite a lot of
the time, if you've been doinggood in the world, people want
to help you.
(17:39):
You're not asking them ofsomething like it's, you're
allowing them to be reciprocreciprocal.
If I can say my words.
You're allowing them that, thatability to be.
Gracious of the introductionsyou've probably already made for
them, the help you've alreadyprovided.
Now, let them help you becausethey do actually want to help
you.
Most people do.
But you've, to your point,you've gotta give them the
(18:00):
toolkit that understands.
So I, you know, I'd use anexample a good friend of mine,
referral partner of mine, she'sa branding lady, so she helps
people with their brandmessaging, their graphic design.
And I, I said to her like, look,tell me who your ideal audience
are.
And she gave me this reallybroad, generic description of,
it could be any audience.
(18:20):
I was like, there that, that'sgreat, but there's no, there's
nothing sticking in here.
Like, you need to go deeper.
She was like, oh, well this typeof people.
I was like you're closer to themark.
What do they have for breakfast?
And she was like, what?
I was like, what do they havefor breakfast?
And she was like I don't knowwhat you mean.
What's that gonna do withanything?
I was like, well, really, it'sgot nothing to do with anything,
but it's also the sort of levelthat you need to be going to
(18:41):
here.
Like, who are these people?
How will I know that I've gotone of your people in front of
me when they're standing staringme in the face?
What things are they saying thatI can go, ha, I remember floss,
that I had to keep an eye outfor that.
Or I had to remember that Stevesaid I had to keep an eye out
for that, or whatever.
Those are the conversations thatwe can go, you've been sent to
(19:02):
me for a reason.
Like we're connected for areason.
I'm now gonna make anintroduction because you've said
the magic phrase.
And that conviction on my behalfas the referrer is equally as
important, right?
Like to, well, exactly what yousaid earlier on.
Well, I can introduce you toFrank.
Frank.
Frank does I dunno what he doesor he does, just some networking
(19:23):
kind of stuff and he helps.
Oh, I don't want that intro.
If I'm the other person on theother end, I'm going no, thanks
Paul.
I don't really want that intro,so I think that.
Is for me key.
And I know that's kind of coreto what you are, like, how do
you help people understand howto get to the core of that
message though?
Because that's, I imagine that'ssomething you help people with
quite a lot is how do the, howdo you decide what to put in
(19:46):
your elevator pitch?
Frank (19:47):
Well, you know, it's funny because I bring up the
notion that people do a poor jobof talking about.
Themselves.
everybody laughs like, oh, youare right.
They are all horrible.
And my response is, yes, we areall horrible.
I'm horrible.
You are horrible.
We're all horrible.
We all do a poor job of it.
(20:09):
and so, you know, I, I.
I own it, you know, I need to doa better job and I constantly
have to work on it and have to,okay, why did I say it that way?
I should have said it this way,you know?
So it's a work in progress andwe come by it.
We come by it honestly.
Because you know, like you withjavelin, I mean, you're probably
working in thinking aboutjavelin 16, 17 hours a day.
(20:33):
Right.
Even with your family, thingsare going on in your mind, and
so you really really, understandit.
And the average person onlythinks about it when you're
talking to them, right?
For that little bit of time.
And then they've got their otherthings to think about.
And so, you know, and I knewthis when I practiced law.
(20:54):
I was just like, okay,everybody's gotta understand
this, right?
I.
I know all this stuff.
They must know all this stuff.
And in reality, know any of it.
So, you know, you ask thequestion, you know, how do I,
you know, start, I just startby, at other people.
What's happening with otherpeople is you you know don't be
ashamed.
No, be optimistic becausethere's so much potential for
(21:17):
you to improve So muchpotential.
Paul (21:20):
So AMSpirit.
Tell me about AMSpirit.
Frank (21:24):
Yeah, well, I, you know, it's hard for me to compare
because I've never been in otherorganizations, but I do know
what we're passionate about andit's referrals.
I'm not worried about growinggroups to be huge.
I'm worried about.
to make sure the people in theorganization have a successful
ex experience.
so myself and other myfranchisees who are out, people
(21:48):
who are working with groups,people who are in groups and
helping with within groups wetalk through essentially what I
just went through on here.
You know, it's like, okay, it'seasy to build a relationship.
We're all really good at that.
We're humans for the most part.
Now let's really home,.in on ourmessaging, you know, one member
(22:08):
said to me, yeah if he told therest of the people in the group,
if I don't under, you know, if Idon't understand what you're
saying, I feel dumb and I can'trefer you if I feel dumb, So I
need to be very confident inwhat you're about.
So let's have a conversation.
So.
Is that our differentiator?
(22:28):
I don't know, but I just knowthat we're all very passionate
about it.
are lots of different types ofnetworking groups out there.
The people who come to us arethe people who want referrals,
so we need to really lean intobeing super super, proficient at
helping people understand theywork.
not everybody will take thetime, but a lot of people do.
(22:50):
And that those are the people weserve.
Paul (22:53):
Amazing and.
If you are looking at someonewho's just joined AMSpirit and
we're perhaps doing a bit ofcritique and a bit of
troubleshooting to help themtake that first step
Frank (23:03):
What I tell people is stop trying to have that.
One super awesome 30 secondcommercial that just flows off
your tongue, right?
Don't worry about that.
I want you to have 50 that aremediocre that every week can
come in and kind of tell adifferent story.
This week I'm talking about thisflavor of ice cream.
(23:26):
This week I'm talking aboutanother flavor, and this fla and
every week, have a rotation ofdifferent things you're talking
about.
and when you've, through therotation, start all over again.
Because the way the human brainworks is it hangs onto all those
little stories.
One of the things I do is I'llgo into groups.
I'll bring a Rubik's cube.
(23:46):
You know what a Rubik's cube is,right?
I've never solved a Rubik'scube.
And the reason I've neversolved, oh, there you go.
Yep.
never solved it because Ihaven't committed the time.
Now, there are ways of doing it.
You could look online, you couldfigure it out.
And if you pay me$10,000, I willlearn how to do a Rubik's Cube.
But if you're not gonnaincentivise me to figure out a
(24:07):
Rubik's cube, I won't do it.
And so what I tell people iswhen you come at somebody with
that 32nd commercial as youillustrated, where the person
was like, ah, you know, I haveno idea what you're talking
about.
What that person was saying toyou is, Paul, here's a Rubik's
Cube.
Solve it.
You're like, I'm not gonnawaste, you know, I'm not gonna
devote time to it.
(24:28):
So I tell people, you need tosimplify it.
You need to give things thatjust stick in people's brains.
And so I.
Have all these differentcommercials that you can come up
with.
And actually we've put somewe've done some things on with
ai that people can kind of havea conversation about their, Hey,
this is what I do, and the AIwill come back and say, well,
(24:48):
here's some messaging.
Can you give me a website tolook at?
And it'll, you know, do you wantme to make commercials for you?
Yeah.
Here's 36 commercials.
So we do a, we're all aboutreferrals.
Paul (24:59):
I, and what you've said really aligned with my world as
well, right?
Like, because that's why I lovevideo because video helps people
tell those little snippets Wespend so much time worrying
about, as you said, you've saidso many.
So many honest, candid thingstoday, Frank, and I love that
about you is, you know, thelike, I can't refer people'cause
I feel too dumb'cause I didn'tunderstand what you said.
(25:19):
That takes a brave person toadmit that or be even conscious
that they've done that, althoughplenty of us will do that exact
thing.
And you know, the more times youtell your story to the world,
the better you'll refine it.
You'll understand whichaudiences like that story, which
version you need to tell todifferent people, which bits to
put in, which bits to take out.
(25:41):
And it's a constantly evolvingthing, but people spend so much
time trying to get that, youknow, when I deal with that, you
know, Paul I've recorded myelevator pitch for the website
and I've done it 14 times.
I can't get it right.
What's going on?
I'm like, you're trying to gostraight in at the deep end.
You can't possibly try and dothat the first time on video,
right?
You've got to figure it out bitby bit, networking, telling the
(26:02):
story, telling who you are, anddon't be shy of bringing that
personal level into it as well.
You know, I, you know, I go intoa networking group, I tell them,
what do you do, Paul?
Well, first of all I get verylittle sleep because I've got
two young boys.
One of them's just had the edgethe side guide rails taken off
his cot.
So he spends most of the dayrunning in and outta my bedroom
(26:22):
trying to keep me awake.
And the other one.
Oh, he just, he comes up withconjures ideas up as to why he
needs to come downstairs after Iput him to bed.
Right.
Like, so, excuse me if I don'tmake much sense in the
networking session today.
'cause I probably had aboutthree hours last night.
Thanks.
Thanks kids.
And, but that sticks.
Oh, Paul's the guy with thecrazy kids.
Yeah
Frank (26:42):
Yeah.
Paul (26:42):
bit crazy myself to be fair, but you know, we'll get to
that later.
Frank, I'll thoroughly enjoy.
And it like, I always love itwhen I've got folks like
yourself on,'cause it doesgenerally feel more like a
conversation than an interviewor a podcast.
So thank you very much forcoming along.
If folks wanna find out moreabout AMSpirit, I will make sure
I put all the links in the shownotes.
So please do read down, scrollclick.
Frank's fantastic.
(27:02):
I can vouch firsthand for histop-notch referrals and
networking abilities.
And I'm sure that the groups areevery bit as, powerful as his
connections are.
So definitely have a think aboutthat and look into it.
Frank what's one thing you'dleave the audience with for this
week's episode?
Frank (27:17):
Well, let me give you two quick things.
One the best way to get yourselfnetworked Get out there and
volunteer, find something thatyou're interested in and go
ahead and volunteer.
'cause you're gonna feel goodabout it, but you're gonna be
with other people that you don'tknow who are interested in the
same things, and they're gonnathink that, you know, well,
they're gonna know that you're agood person.
And then you just need toeducate them.
(27:38):
But the second thing I'll say isI'm releasing a number of audio
books and I have a series of.
Free download codes off ofAudible and Amazon are only good
in the uk.
I don't know a ton of people inthe uk so I have all these
codes.
So if somebody would like freebooks I'm happy to give them
codes.
Paul (27:58):
So if you're interested in that, connect with Frank, drop
him a line, and he willabsolutely drop those over to
you.
Frank, it's been an absolutepleasure.
Thank you very much for being agreat guest.
We'll have to have you backagain.
Take care.
Thanks for watching along athome.
Make sure to hit the buttonsubscribe.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Do you think your network isn't working?
(00:02):
This episode unpacks?
Why your referrals have dried upand how to build a business that
runs on trust, not transactions.
Frank Agin is the founder andpresident of AmSpirit Business
Connections referral focusednetworking organization that
helps small businesses growthrough trusted professional
relationships.
(00:23):
He's a lawyer by training and aCPA by background.
Frank pivoted from Corporate TaxConsulting to entrepreneurship
over 25 years ago afterrealizing that connection, not
compliance was his real passion.
Through AMSpirit, his podcast,Networking Rx, and multiple
books on relationship building.
(00:43):
Frank has become a go-to voicefor professionals who want to
build their voice and businessthrough real human connections,
not cold pitches.
Frank, it's been a long timecoming.
Welcome to the show, my friend.
Frank (00:56):
Yeah, this is take two.
The audience doesn't know wetried to do this once and ran
into some technical issues, sothere,
Paul (01:03):
Well.
Frank (01:03):
the Atlantics separating us, right?
Paul (01:05):
And technology more at the point.
Yeah.
Technology.
So yeah, I, I have to if theaudience are watching along on
this I've been featured onFrank's fantastic podcast twice
now.
So many thanks to you for havingme on the show.
And finally, I realised that mypodcast that I'm currently
running was a great fit for youas well because you have an
(01:26):
interesting background and storyand.
As we've discussed a lot on thisshow we might not get where we
thought we were gonna be, but wecertainly end up where we're
meant to and I'm looking forwardto digging into a little bit of
that journey of yours, Frank,today.
Because to be honest, it's notsomething we've ever spoke about
privately either.
So be interesting to understanda bit more about your journey.
(01:47):
You started in law andaccounting.
Why would you do that toyourself, Frank?
Frank (01:51):
Well, no, that's a good question.
I ask myself that question allthe time.
My dad asked me that questiontoo.
You know, can't believe you everdid that.
That's so not you.
You know, I, my, my dad was aprofessor, my mom was an
educator, and so I grew up in ahousehold where eductaion do
well.
That's the ticket.
And so you go off to college andyou do well, and they, well, you
(02:12):
need to, you know, go to gradschool, go on.
And I'm like, well, I'll go tolaw school.
I'll, you know, go get a, anMBA, I'll get a professional
degree, I'll get an advanceddegree.
And then you, it's kind of afallacy you think, you know, the
more you move up, the more youropportunities.
And in many ways it really kindof narrows them.
You start to pigeonhole yourselfand you're taking a lot of tax
(02:34):
classes and then you're kind of,you know, you're earmarked as a
tax person.
It's like, How this is supposedto work.
And and then you get out there,you get the offer letter and I'm
making good money.
And while this is great and andthen after a while you realise
okay, this isn't fun.
Is not this can't be the next 40years of my life.
So that's how it really allbegan.
(02:56):
And I think that story in issimilar for a lot of people
because when we're coming outof, you know, in, in the United
States High School on tocollege, it's like, we, you need
to start making these lifedecisions you don't really even
know what, you know, you don'treally even know what you wanna
do.
Paul (03:13):
No.
Frank (03:14):
so that's how I ended up in that.
Paul (03:16):
What was the moment?
Was there a trigger for you whenenough was enough?
Frank (03:21):
Y Yeah, it was a couple years in.
There was a trigger, but I wassmart enough to know that, you
know what?
I need to plan.
I can't just leave.
I need to have a plan.
I need to know where I want togo.
I was al always been veryentrepreneurial.
As a kid, I would sell.
I.
We lived in a tourist area.
We sell worms right night,crawlers, we call'em you know,
basically have a sign on theroad and people would pay 35
(03:43):
cents, a dozen or three dozensfor a dollar or three dozen for
a dollar or something like that.
And I was very entrepreneurial.
And I knew that I kind of wantedto control my own destiny.
And so I planned and plannedfiguring, okay, I have this law
degree.
I don't hate being a lawyer.
And there's lots of differentthings that you can do being a
lawyer, you know, here's tax,here's all the stuff, right?
(04:06):
Here's all the business stuff.
some of it's, you know, reallykind of exciting.
And so probably about six yearsinto it I finally just said,
okay, I've gotta do this.
'cause at some point you just,you have to make the leap,
right?
You've been there.
I know I want to, I'm, it'snever simple, right?
Where you're just leaving andall of a sudden you're replacing
your income overnight.
It's never that simple.
(04:27):
I left and I tell people that afunny thing happened to me when
I went into what I call theprivate practice of law.
And the funny thing was thatNOTHING happened.
I had No idea how to getclients.
They don't teach you that.
I just figured got thisexperience, a great experience.
e I had these credentials.
I had a law degree, I had agraduate business degree, I had
(04:49):
a certified public accountingdegree certification.
Who wouldn't want me, whowouldn't wanna take me on Right.
To help them?
is right.
'cause I didn't have all theoverhead of the big firm and,
and you know.
It just didn't happen.
It's, and it's not supposed to,but I had lunch one day with a
friend and I was just kindalamenting, you know, where I was
(05:11):
at.
And she had taken a differentpath outta law school and had
started her own firm.
So she didn't really have anincome to replace.
She could just right from thebeginning, start to build this
thing up.
I just said, how do I get towhere you're at?
And she just gave me somesuggestions.
One of the suggestions was.
Get into a TIPS club or a leadsgroup like A BNI, I really had
(05:32):
no idea what she was talkingabout, but there was an
organization that was juststarting groups here in, in the
Columbus, where I'm at Columbus,Ohio Central part of the United
States.
It wasn't BNI.
It was very similar to BNI.
I went to a meeting and it madetotal sense that I could lift my
whole world up, just helpingother people.
(05:54):
Networking, right?
I had no idea what networkingwas.
And I took to it like a fish towater because it's so easy for
me to promote other people andjust painful to self-promote,
just, it's just hard.
And that's not true ofeverybody, but most people don't
(06:14):
wanna spend a whole lot of timeself-promoting you.
You really put yourself at risk.
Of either sounding obnoxious orbeing challenged.
And so I had, you know, got intothis organization, it was doing,
didn't it?
I mean, it wasn't an overnightsuccess, but I at least had a, I
had a plan at that point.
I could start to work thisgroup.
(06:36):
I could start to build theserelationships and, make a long
story short, it was probablyanother six years, but I had the
opportunity to buy theorganization and I did.
And that's, and at that point Isaid, you know, I don't, you
know, I enjoy practicing law,but there are new attorneys are
graduating every year, thousandsof them.
(06:59):
And there's nothing unique aboutit.
And so, and you're really notbuilding anything.
You're getting clients andyou're serving clients with the
networking organization, whichyou've mentioned is called
AMSpirit Business Connections.
I can.
Build something, I can createcontent that has meaning.
And you know, it's just you'rebuilding a brand, you're
(07:21):
building a following.
So
Paul (07:23):
I think that's.
I think that's true for anybodywho works in what are typically
quite undifferentiated spaces,right?
Nobody comes to a lawyer becausethey've got nice problems.
Right?
Nobody comes to an accountantbecause they love the idea of
having an accountant.
Nobody, you know, there's,there, there are necessary evils
in the world.
World and unfortunately lawyersand accountants and such are in
(07:45):
that ball.
We have, we couldn't livewithout them, but they're
absolutely really tough to.
Differentiate and I guess youmeet some fascinating people, I
have no doubt.
But like in those early days,like I'm guessing imposter
syndrome and the fear that youweren't enough must have been
quite heavy on your shoulders,right?
Frank (08:04):
Well, sure.
I when I think that's alwaysthere because none of us have.
None of us have the sameexperiences.
And so the second you hear aboutsomebody else's experience, it's
like, Ooh, done this, and this,but I didn't do this.
You know?
So, and we just assume they'vedone all these other things.
(08:24):
In reality, this might've beenthe only thing they ever done.
And they're looking at ussaying, wow, all this, here's
all this stuff I haven't Yeah, Imean, there was, you know,
there's certainly the wholenotion of imposter syndrome.
I mean, I, you know, we I stillrun into it, you know, I look at
other people and I think theinternet lends itself well to
fueling that sort of, sorts offeelings.
(08:48):
And you just have to realiseokay, you know, I hear what
they're saying.
Chances are they didn't do thatin six months.
They just didn't, you know.
I don't
Paul (08:58):
Or it's not the full picture.
Yeah.
Frank (09:01):
I don't have the time to check.
I don't want to take the time.
It doesn't matter.
I'm doing what I need to do.
Paul (09:08):
So you talked earlier about the good feeling and the
lifting yourself up.
I think you described it as bythrough networking.
For those people who werewatching along, who still, I
mean, we were fortunate enough afew weeks ago to have the
fantastic Bob Berg on the showRight.
So, I'm absolutely, you know,anybody who listens to me talk
knows that I'm in on what youare talking about to here I love
(09:30):
it.
I love adding that value,helping people, networking.
What is it, what were yourworries when you first started
out on that trip though?
Because at the beginning we allkind of.
Have this concern that, or Ithink most people do that we
don't have anything to give inreturn.
We're networking with people,but what's my value that I'm
(09:51):
going to add other than theobvious?
Frank (09:53):
Yeah.
Well, and I think that'ssomething that people need to
come to grips with is that we dohave value.
I mean, I tell people all thetime, the biggest thing you have
to offer to your network is yournetwork itself, right?
it's like I've introduced you topeople.
I'm not trying to pat myself onthe back, but it's like I know
(10:14):
that there are people in myworld that could help you and
you could help them.
And so I'm gonna try and makethose introductions.
doesn't cost me anything.
I could be the broker, right?
Hey, Paul, if I'm gonna connectyou with Marise you guys have
your conversation through me.
well thats a waste of time, youknow?
And nobody wants to deal likethat, so it's just easier to
(10:37):
kind of make the connections.
But you just in, in time, youstart to realise that you do
have things to offer.
You know, it's well, I've hadthis experience, this one and
this one, but not this, youknow, I can help somebody with
these experiences and they canhelp me with this.
And of times people look atnetworking as kind of this.
You hear the notion need to givebefore you get, it's like, well
(10:59):
that doesn't make sense becauseI'll end up, you know, I'll end
up broke.
well, no, you're giving awaythings that are replaceable or
that don't deplete you givingsomebody information or making a
connection for somebody.
It doesn't deplete me.
I'm just sharing what I have.
(11:19):
whereas if you're giving money,then yeah, you're gonna be
depleted.
You know, so it's just kind ofcoming, you know, coming to,
just realizing that you havethese things in your life.
You have experiences, you haveconnections and those are real
value that you can hand out toother people.
Paul (11:36):
So as you went along, building that..
I guess you could call it acommunity, right?
Network or community, whateveryou want to, whatever you want
to class it as coming from thebackground that you had and you
know, we all know that lawyersand accountants traditionally
earn quite good money.
It's far from a poor man's tradeor a poor woman's trade.
(11:56):
Was there a time when you justkind of sat there and thought,
what am I doing?
It's just like.
I should go back and be a lawyerlike,'cause the money's much
better than what I'm doing now,or it's, there was a more
defined career path.
And if I'd stayed as a partnerat a, you know, I could have
made partner by now or I hadWhat were your thoughts on
there?
Was were the moments of doubt?
(12:52):
I.
Frank (12:52):
Well there, I mean, there've always been moments of
doubt.
Yeah.
There were mo moments of doubtearly on.
Really early on there were,because I, you know, the, I had
spent enough time doing taxes.
I had a real specialisation Ihad a real skill set that w was,
and still is in demand.
I mean, it's, my skill setsgone.
(13:12):
It's atrophy.
The laws have changed.
But at that time there was areal skill set and I had
companies reaching out saying,we understand you're available.
Would you be interested comingto work?
And you have to do a little bitof soul searching and say, okay.
Are you gonna be happy?
And the answer is no.
I'm not gonna be happy.
(13:33):
I'll be happy on payday.
You know?
But payday comes depending uponwhere you're at once a month,
once every other week.
You know, it's it, you know,it's
Paul (13:43):
I don't even think we're happy on payday.
Honestly.
I don't even think we're happyon payday.
You don't even notice it comein.
You don't even notice it comein.
There's no worry that it's gonnacome in.
I guess that's, that is a bonusof being in one of those kind of
jobs like.
I don't really worry that I'mgonna lose my job until it
actually happens.
Let's be fair.
'cause it does happen.
And, but now you're a master ofyour own destiny and the power
(14:03):
to prevent that happenings inyour grasp.
And I lo I love,
Frank (14:07):
Yeah.
Paul (14:07):
certainly from my perspective, I think that's huge
for me.
Marketing through referrals,then?
Talk us through what's yourapproach to referral based
marketing?
Frank (14:17):
Well, I think the f you know, for me, number one, you
have to be willing to help otherpeople.
You have to be willing to addvalue to other people.
That's that's the first thing.
and we've kind of already talkedabout, there's lots of ways you
can add value.
I.
The second thing you need to dois you need to be really clear
on the types of things that youwant.
You know, who are, you know, whoare the people you serve, and
(14:39):
when do you serve them?
And letting the people aroundyou know that.
and to be honest, Paul, I thinkthat's probably the biggest
mistake or the biggest problempeople run into, is they assume
that everybody understands whatthey're about.
And.
Don't, and people are just toonice to say anything.
I was talking to human relationsperson last week.
(15:00):
Consultant had their ownbusiness.
And yo I do I'm an HR person,and she just kind of talked in
these terms and just assumedthat I would catch onto them.
And I pushed back on her.
Well, I explained to her, Isaid, you know, I wanna help
you.
I like you.
But I don't understand what youmean.
And have all these stories youcan tell that can help paint a
(15:22):
picture for how I could referyou.
But you choose to tell all thesestories in one 32nd commercial,
and my brain doesn't hang ontothat one 32nd commercial.
But if you tell me a couple ofthese stories, my brain will
hang onto those.
And her, of course, her responseis, well, how do I know what
(15:43):
stories to tell?
And you know, what if I tellthese three and really the
opportunity is the fourth?
Well, that's a risk you run.
But when you're doing theblanket 32nd commercial, I miss
everything.
So you might as well take achance on these.
And the reality is you know,when you go to a networking
event, somebody asks, what doyou do?
(16:03):
You need to be ready with ananswer.
Right?
This is what Javelin's allabout, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And you feel like, okay, I'vemissed the opportunity.
in reality, nobody does businesson that first meeting anyway,
right?
It's the second meeting.
It's the third meeting whereyou're really getting to know
one another, and that's when youhave the opportunity to kind of
really dial into the stories,you know?
(16:24):
Well, as an attorney, these arethe kinds of things I do, you
know?
Oh, I didn't realise that.
You know, I didn't realise thatwas part of being a lawyer.
Everyone thinks going to courtis what lawyers do and most
don't.
so that's, you know, really thesecond piece of getting or
marketing for referrals.
And then the third thing is thatyou need to educate your network
(16:44):
on how to talk about you whenyou are not there, you know?
So, Paul, I like you, right?
And you've told me aboutJavelin.
I get a sense as to what you'relooking for.
I come across somebody that's agood fit for you, you know, me
liking you is in my heart, meknowing what you're about is in
my head.
But until something comes out ofmy mouth and says, you know
(17:07):
what?
There's a guy I need tointroduce you to, lemme tell you
a little about him.
thats kind of the last piece.
Then the, that's what makes thereferral happen.
So it's really those threethings that need to happen.
Paul (17:18):
And I think a lot of the time we probably have an idea.
Here that's what we need to do.
But then people back off fromthat because it feels, oh, I
don't know.
It feels a bit uncomfortable todo that.
'cause it kind of feels likeyou're asking of people, but you
are.
The thing that people don'trealise is that quite a lot of
the time, if you've been doinggood in the world, people want
to help you.
(17:39):
You're not asking them ofsomething like it's, you're
allowing them to be reciprocreciprocal.
If I can say my words.
You're allowing them that, thatability to be.
Gracious of the introductionsyou've probably already made for
them, the help you've alreadyprovided.
Now, let them help you becausethey do actually want to help
you.
Most people do.
But you've, to your point,you've gotta give them the
(18:00):
toolkit that understands.
So I, you know, I'd use anexample a good friend of mine,
referral partner of mine, she'sa branding lady, so she helps
people with their brandmessaging, their graphic design.
And I, I said to her like, look,tell me who your ideal audience
are.
And she gave me this reallybroad, generic description of,
it could be any audience.
(18:20):
I was like, there that, that'sgreat, but there's no, there's
nothing sticking in here.
Like, you need to go deeper.
She was like, oh, well this typeof people.
I was like you're closer to themark.
What do they have for breakfast?
And she was like, what?
I was like, what do they havefor breakfast?
And she was like I don't knowwhat you mean.
What's that gonna do withanything?
I was like, well, really, it'sgot nothing to do with anything,
but it's also the sort of levelthat you need to be going to
(18:41):
here.
Like, who are these people?
How will I know that I've gotone of your people in front of
me when they're standing staringme in the face?
What things are they saying thatI can go, ha, I remember floss,
that I had to keep an eye outfor that.
Or I had to remember that Stevesaid I had to keep an eye out
for that, or whatever.
Those are the conversations thatwe can go, you've been sent to
(19:02):
me for a reason.
Like we're connected for areason.
I'm now gonna make anintroduction because you've said
the magic phrase.
And that conviction on my behalfas the referrer is equally as
important, right?
Like to, well, exactly what yousaid earlier on.
Well, I can introduce you toFrank.
Frank.
Frank does I dunno what he doesor he does, just some networking
(19:23):
kind of stuff and he helps.
Oh, I don't want that intro.
If I'm the other person on theother end, I'm going no, thanks
Paul.
I don't really want that intro,so I think that.
Is for me key.
And I know that's kind of coreto what you are, like, how do
you help people understand howto get to the core of that
message though?
Because that's, I imagine that'ssomething you help people with
quite a lot is how do the, howdo you decide what to put in
(19:46):
your elevator pitch?
Frank (19:47):
Well, you know, it's funny because I bring up the
notion that people do a poor jobof talking about.
Themselves.
everybody laughs like, oh, youare right.
They are all horrible.
And my response is, yes, we areall horrible.
I'm horrible.
You are horrible.
We're all horrible.
We all do a poor job of it.
(20:09):
and so, you know, I, I.
I own it, you know, I need to doa better job and I constantly
have to work on it and have to,okay, why did I say it that way?
I should have said it this way,you know?
So it's a work in progress andwe come by it.
We come by it honestly.
Because you know, like you withjavelin, I mean, you're probably
working in thinking aboutjavelin 16, 17 hours a day.
(20:33):
Right.
Even with your family, thingsare going on in your mind, and
so you really really, understandit.
And the average person onlythinks about it when you're
talking to them, right?
For that little bit of time.
And then they've got their otherthings to think about.
And so, you know, and I knewthis when I practiced law.
(20:54):
I was just like, okay,everybody's gotta understand
this, right?
I.
I know all this stuff.
They must know all this stuff.
And in reality, know any of it.
So, you know, you ask thequestion, you know, how do I,
you know, start, I just startby, at other people.
What's happening with otherpeople is you you know don't be
ashamed.
No, be optimistic becausethere's so much potential for
(21:17):
you to improve So muchpotential.
Paul (21:20):
So AMSpirit.
Tell me about AMSpirit.
Frank (21:24):
Yeah, well, I, you know, it's hard for me to compare
because I've never been in otherorganizations, but I do know
what we're passionate about andit's referrals.
I'm not worried about growinggroups to be huge.
I'm worried about.
to make sure the people in theorganization have a successful
ex experience.
so myself and other myfranchisees who are out, people
(21:48):
who are working with groups,people who are in groups and
helping with within groups wetalk through essentially what I
just went through on here.
You know, it's like, okay, it'seasy to build a relationship.
We're all really good at that.
We're humans for the most part.
Now let's really home,.in on ourmessaging, you know, one member
(22:08):
said to me, yeah if he told therest of the people in the group,
if I don't under, you know, if Idon't understand what you're
saying, I feel dumb and I can'trefer you if I feel dumb, So I
need to be very confident inwhat you're about.
So let's have a conversation.
So.
Is that our differentiator?
(22:28):
I don't know, but I just knowthat we're all very passionate
about it.
are lots of different types ofnetworking groups out there.
The people who come to us arethe people who want referrals,
so we need to really lean intobeing super super, proficient at
helping people understand theywork.
not everybody will take thetime, but a lot of people do.
(22:50):
And that those are the people weserve.
Paul (22:53):
Amazing and.
If you are looking at someonewho's just joined AMSpirit and
we're perhaps doing a bit ofcritique and a bit of
troubleshooting to help themtake that first step
Frank (23:03):
What I tell people is stop trying to have that.
One super awesome 30 secondcommercial that just flows off
your tongue, right?
Don't worry about that.
I want you to have 50 that aremediocre that every week can
come in and kind of tell adifferent story.
This week I'm talking about thisflavor of ice cream.
(23:26):
This week I'm talking aboutanother flavor, and this fla and
every week, have a rotation ofdifferent things you're talking
about.
and when you've, through therotation, start all over again.
Because the way the human brainworks is it hangs onto all those
little stories.
One of the things I do is I'llgo into groups.
I'll bring a Rubik's cube.
(23:46):
You know what a Rubik's cube is,right?
I've never solved a Rubik'scube.
And the reason I've neversolved, oh, there you go.
Yep.
never solved it because Ihaven't committed the time.
Now, there are ways of doing it.
You could look online, you couldfigure it out.
And if you pay me$10,000, I willlearn how to do a Rubik's Cube.
But if you're not gonnaincentivise me to figure out a
(24:07):
Rubik's cube, I won't do it.
And so what I tell people iswhen you come at somebody with
that 32nd commercial as youillustrated, where the person
was like, ah, you know, I haveno idea what you're talking
about.
What that person was saying toyou is, Paul, here's a Rubik's
Cube.
Solve it.
You're like, I'm not gonnawaste, you know, I'm not gonna
devote time to it.
(24:28):
So I tell people, you need tosimplify it.
You need to give things thatjust stick in people's brains.
And so I.
Have all these differentcommercials that you can come up
with.
And actually we've put somewe've done some things on with
ai that people can kind of havea conversation about their, Hey,
this is what I do, and the AIwill come back and say, well,
(24:48):
here's some messaging.
Can you give me a website tolook at?
And it'll, you know, do you wantme to make commercials for you?
Yeah.
Here's 36 commercials.
So we do a, we're all aboutreferrals.
Paul (24:59):
I, and what you've said really aligned with my world as
well, right?
Like, because that's why I lovevideo because video helps people
tell those little snippets Wespend so much time worrying
about, as you said, you've saidso many.
So many honest, candid thingstoday, Frank, and I love that
about you is, you know, thelike, I can't refer people'cause
I feel too dumb'cause I didn'tunderstand what you said.
(25:19):
That takes a brave person toadmit that or be even conscious
that they've done that, althoughplenty of us will do that exact
thing.
And you know, the more times youtell your story to the world,
the better you'll refine it.
You'll understand whichaudiences like that story, which
version you need to tell todifferent people, which bits to
put in, which bits to take out.
(25:41):
And it's a constantly evolvingthing, but people spend so much
time trying to get that, youknow, when I deal with that, you
know, Paul I've recorded myelevator pitch for the website
and I've done it 14 times.
I can't get it right.
What's going on?
I'm like, you're trying to gostraight in at the deep end.
You can't possibly try and dothat the first time on video,
right?
You've got to figure it out bitby bit, networking, telling the
(26:02):
story, telling who you are, anddon't be shy of bringing that
personal level into it as well.
You know, I, you know, I go intoa networking group, I tell them,
what do you do, Paul?
Well, first of all I get verylittle sleep because I've got
two young boys.
One of them's just had the edgethe side guide rails taken off
his cot.
So he spends most of the dayrunning in and outta my bedroom
(26:22):
trying to keep me awake.
And the other one.
Oh, he just, he comes up withconjures ideas up as to why he
needs to come downstairs after Iput him to bed.
Right.
Like, so, excuse me if I don'tmake much sense in the
networking session today.
'cause I probably had aboutthree hours last night.
Thanks.
Thanks kids.
And, but that sticks.
Oh, Paul's the guy with thecrazy kids.
Yeah
Frank (26:42):
Yeah.
Paul (26:42):
bit crazy myself to be fair, but you know, we'll get to
that later.
Frank, I'll thoroughly enjoy.
And it like, I always love itwhen I've got folks like
yourself on,'cause it doesgenerally feel more like a
conversation than an interviewor a podcast.
So thank you very much forcoming along.
If folks wanna find out moreabout AMSpirit, I will make sure
I put all the links in the shownotes.
So please do read down, scrollclick.
Frank's fantastic.
(27:02):
I can vouch firsthand for histop-notch referrals and
networking abilities.
And I'm sure that the groups areevery bit as, powerful as his
connections are.
So definitely have a think aboutthat and look into it.
Frank what's one thing you'dleave the audience with for this
week's episode?
Frank (27:17):
Well, let me give you two quick things.
One the best way to get yourselfnetworked Get out there and
volunteer, find something thatyou're interested in and go
ahead and volunteer.
'cause you're gonna feel goodabout it, but you're gonna be
with other people that you don'tknow who are interested in the
same things, and they're gonnathink that, you know, well,
they're gonna know that you're agood person.
And then you just need toeducate them.
(27:38):
But the second thing I'll say isI'm releasing a number of audio
books and I have a series of.
Free download codes off ofAudible and Amazon are only good
in the uk.
I don't know a ton of people inthe uk so I have all these
codes.
So if somebody would like freebooks I'm happy to give them
codes.
Paul (27:58):
So if you're interested in that, connect with Frank, drop
him a line, and he willabsolutely drop those over to
you.
Frank, it's been an absolutepleasure.
Thank you very much for being agreat guest.
We'll have to have you backagain.
Take care.
Thanks for watching along athome.
Make sure to hit the buttonsubscribe.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
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