August 27, 2025 • 32 mins
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What if your business problems weren’t really about your business at all—but about you? In this episode of MarketPulse: Pros & Pioneers, we sit down with Mark Musselman, a leadership veteran and founder of MX5 Consulting, who’s helped steer multimillion-dollar companies and now works with CEOs to navigate their greatest personal and professional hurdles. He shares the hard-earned lessons from running $30M+ organisations, including the moment he had to take his own family business through bankruptcy—and how that shaped the no-nonsense leadership approach he teaches today.
Mark isn’t your typical coach. He’s lived the highs and lows of business firsthand and brings a refreshing, raw honesty to every conversation. From toxic positivity in the boardroom to social media facades, this episode peels back the curtain on what leaders are really thinking—and why most never talk about it. You’ll hear the kind of stories that rarely get shared, and insights that’ll make you rethink how you lead, manage, and show up for your team.
This episode explores the exponential impact of coaching, how to use AI without losing your human touch, and why vulnerability is your strongest asset in business. Mark also breaks down the myths around leadership, explains how to stay productive in a world built for distraction, and reveals what CEOs are really saying at home when no one’s watching.
If you’re feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or just tired of the polished success stories, this one’s for you. Mark’s message is simple but powerful—your business isn’t the problem. You are. And that’s not a bad thing. It’s an invitation to lead better.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
What makes a great leader?
Mark Musselman has built andcoached multimillion dollar
businesses, and he's here totalk about the no bullshit
leadership lessons that actuallydrive growth.
Mark is a business leader anentrepreneur and executive coach
with over 30 years of experiencein guiding leaders and
(00:22):
businesses throughtransformation.
As the founder of MX5Consulting, Mark helps business
owners, entrepreneurs, andC-level executives break through
challenges and accelerate growthusing his assess, align,
accelerate methodology.
Having already led two$30million plus businesses as A
CEO, he understands firsthandthe struggles of leadership and
(00:45):
the need for strategic clarity.
And in addition to coaching,mark co-founded Tula Mexican
Grill in Dublin, applying hisbusiness acumen to the
hospitality industry.
With a no BS approach toleadership, Mark's committed to
helping leaders just like youtake real action, foster, trust,
and create businesses that don'tjust grow but thrive.
(01:06):
Mark, as ever, that is a tallbio to live up to, but I'm
confident you're gonna smashthis.
Welcome to the show.
Mark (01:13):
Well, thank you Paul.
That's great to be here.
Paul (01:15):
you've been a CEO, an entrepreneur.
An executive coach what was theturning point that made you,
first of all, want to get intosenior leadership?
Because there's not, as a kidnot many people come along and
decide they wanna run a company,right?
Like, that's not where we,that's not where we start out.
How did you end up, first ofall, becoming a CEO?
Mark (01:38):
That's a great question.
I think what I have reflected onis when I was young all the way
through my primary education,through, you know, what we refer
to as high school and thenuniversity.
I never really was overlyexcited about anything in
particular.
It is demonstrated by the factthat I had five different, you
(01:58):
know, majors when I came throughuniversity and so my attention
was kind of going from one topicto another, and then immediately
after I graduated from collegeand went into the work world I
began to pay attention to thisidea of leadership.
And it was the first thingreally in my life it kinda lit
(02:19):
me on fire and.
It was through an experience Ihad in my first job where I had
the opportunity to observe greatleadership and, you know,
degrees of very unhealthyleadership that it really kind
of woke me up to the fact thatrole makes all the difference in
the world.
And, you know, as we can lookaround just globally, you know,
(02:42):
great leadership makes a hugedifference in.
every facet of life.
So I just became fascinated withit, and then I poured myself
into it.
I also happened to have the, youknow, the good fortune of being
born into a family that had afamily business.
I'm one of five kids, all fiveof us were in the business.
It was a about 300 and someemployees.
(03:04):
And I had a sort of flavor forthat role and.
You know, my siblings didn'thave as much of that flavor as I
did, I ended up taking over thefamily business at 30 years old
with 300 employees and 30million in revenue, and knew
enough about myself to know thatI didn't know all I needed to
know to run it.
(03:24):
And I hired my first coach in1999 when I took over that role,
and that was like the catalyst.
So, and I've never stopped.
Being fascinated with and doingeverything I can to learn
everything I can aboutleadership since that moment.
Paul (03:40):
It is funny.
So many great leaders that Ispeak to almost seem to become a
great leader.
In spite of the bad leadershipthat they experience at a young
age and in their first jobs andworkplaces that they're in.
And it kind of, you'd expect itto almost deter people from
wanting to become leaders.
But I find that the greedy, goodleaders see that and they just
(04:03):
think, you don't need, these,people don't need to be bad
leaders.
We're all capable of being agood leader, if not a great one.
At least a good leader.
There's just so much.
Lack of development forleadership.
Do you think that's fair?
Mark (04:17):
Well, I think it's very fair.
I think what I'm surprised byevery day.
Mostly because I live in it andI kind of swim in that water.
So it seems to me self-evident.
There's, you know, a set ofskills and it's a, it can be, I
think it's more of a learned setof skills than an inherited set
(04:37):
of skills.
And I'd say, you know, myjourney is included thousands of
hours of reading and watchingcontent, like a show like this.
Attending seminars, workshops,and.
I look at it as my leadershiptoolbox, right?
So I would listen to a podcastlike this with the hopes that
there is something in theconversation that I can add to
(05:00):
my toolbox.
so, you know, I think that manypeople show up may assume a
position or may that you know,may have pursued a position of
leadership, and then they stopgrowing.
They stop learning, and theyassume they have all they need.
In order to be eff effective inthat role.
And most people are underequipped, let me put it that
(05:21):
way, because
Paul (05:23):
Yep.
Mark (05:24):
many challenges that a leader faces.
and obviously the more complexthe business organization, the
more complex and diverse thechallenges.
So, you know, you have to beable to have robust toolbox
where a circumstance appears infront of you, and it could just
be.
(05:45):
That's a phenomenal skill for aleader when the, you know, I'd
say the reflex is to move and todo something just to stop do
nothing and listen and slowdown.
you know, those are things thatare developed over time.
You know, having made manymistakes in my younger version
of a leader, you know, when Ijust rushed
Paul (06:06):
Yep.
Mark (06:07):
decision making or judgment or assumption, to find
out that.
All of what I had assumed wasincorrect, and then having to
rewind it.
So, I mean, I could go down thelist and we could talk for, you
know, a couple hours about allthose, you know, unique skills.
So partnering with somebody, ifyou don't already have that, or
committing yourself deeply inwhatever form works for you to
(06:31):
acquire those skills isessential.
Paul (06:33):
So that leads us on nicely to the first question that I
wanted to really delve into in abit more detail.
So you've led, you know, a$30million business.
No doubt you've helped countlessleaders as part of your
executive coaching, but what'sthe toughest leadership lesson
that you've had to learnpersonally?
Mark (06:49):
Yeah I think the toughest leadership lesson that I learned
early and that I share often andI'm gonna say this in the sense
that you know theres an axiomthat kinda runs around
sometimes.
It says if you take care of thepeople, business will take care
of itself, which I think can betrue.
You know, certainly if you takecare of the people, the business
(07:12):
has a greater chance ofsucceeding.
I would say the distinction is,as a leader, as a CEO
entrepreneur, you have to haveyour eyes on both.
I say that because.
When I took that role as CEO ofmy family's business, we had an
amazing culture.
And the people in the business,all 300 of them were loved and
(07:35):
cared for greatly.
Having that as a background,this idea of you take care of
the people, the business willtake care of itself, you know,
expose the blind spot, which isyou have to take care of the
people and you have to take careof the business.
That seems self-evident, butsometimes.
And in our case, I think we gota little bit lost in all that.
How that can show up is, youknow, that there was so much
(07:58):
focus on welfare and the healthand the culture of the business
that some of the basicfundamental needs of the
business itself were not as paressential to our focus as it
should have been.
So that led my family's businessafter 50 years of ownership.
period of going throughbankruptcy back in 2008-9 was
(08:21):
also coincidental with somemarket challenges at that time.
If you remember the 2008, nineperiod, you know, for us it was
a pretty significant recessionand anyway, so I had the
unfortunate of unwinding andtaking a family business through
bankruptcy after 50 years offamily ownership.
I would say because.
(08:42):
It wasn't a both, it was, we puttoo much emphasis and too much
focus on that piece.
So, that's a very personalstory.
But it's one that I often sharewith clients when I come across
their tendency to listen to thataxiom and then operate outta
that same place.
So just probably very unique,but that's my experience with
(09:04):
one of the biggest lessons I'veever learned.
Paul (09:06):
I think thank you very much for sharing that as well.
'cause I can imagine that'squite a tough story to to share
emotionally as well.
But I imagine that you comeacross quite a lot of people who
are predominantly sat on oneside of that fence or the other,
right?
They either care too much abouttheir people or they don't care
anywhere near enough about theirpeople.
I.
And it's about finding thatbalance in the middle.
Mark (09:25):
Think that's a great way of saying it.
I don't know.
I mean, I would say, I don'tknow if there's a way you could
ever care too much about thepeople.
It's just that if you're gonnaspend that amount of time, you
know, focused on the welfare andthe health and, you know, and
the work environment thataffects people, you also have to
be incredibly mindful of all thedetails that, you know, are the
(09:48):
behind the complexities ofrunning a successful,
profitable, sustainablebusiness.
And, you know, so, and you hadsaid there might be a lot of
pain in there.
There, there used to be.
But now I speak about it as athing openly.
I used to be ashamed of allthat, but I, you know, it's, a
way for me also when I work withbusiness owners, most business
owners, CEOs live with a fear,and the biggest fear is that
(10:12):
they might somehow end up downthat path of losing everything.
having already been down thatjourney and, you know, come up
on the other side.
It is interesting because a it'sa little bit disarming.
You know, I'm not the guy whoshows up all the time with, oh
my goodness, I've only got thesuccess.
You know, we sold our businessfor, you know, 10 million and
(10:33):
I'm a superhero, none of that.
So it, there's
Paul (10:36):
Yeah.
Mark (10:37):
an ax, an accessibility that's afforded really as a
result of that story that Iwould've never intended or known
about.
so I, I don't go outta my way totell it, create that.
I.
Outcome, but it is disarming.
And then people becomeinterested in like, oh, wow.
Well, you know, I'm facing a setof challenges.
They tend to be more open, theytend to be more honest.
(11:00):
let's face it, you know, mostpeople who operate in the world
of business live in a world ofpretense.
Many, you know, are trying tolook good, avoid looking bad,
they'll pretty much say or doanything to continue they want
others to see them being insteadof what's actually going on.
So.
That's, it's been an unintendedkind of consequence from the
(11:21):
whole experience.
But I find it to be reallyeffective in my ability to
connect with business owners andCEOs.
Paul (11:27):
I think that, you know, when I align a lot with that.
A challenge around toxicpositivity, you know, and I see
that a lot on social media.
It's not like, but it pervadesinto personal lives and
conversations as well.
People think it's just socialmedia where we're doing that.
We don't, we do that in peoplewho are afraid to allow the
(11:49):
bumps of the road to be seen byothers.
They generally do it in theirown lives, to their wives, to
their partners, to theirchildren, to their friends and
families, and it.
I, it makes me sad when I seethat because, you know, I'm very
I feel like it's a gift that Ihave an ability to be open and
vulnerable with almost anyone,probably too much sometimes I
overshare.
But you know, that vulnerabilityis what allows us to create
(12:12):
genuine connections with people.
And when you try and remove thatand just showcase your success
you've got no common ground withpeople because.
We all learn from our mistakes,right?
Mark (12:24):
Absolutely.
I think, thank you for sharingthat.
I, it sounds like, you know, weare kindred spirits in the sense
that I, approach life the sameway I.
You know, I think we could allsit and have a conversation at
length about the challenges thatsocial media has created around,
you know, this ability to curatea, an image and then
(12:45):
unfortunately for lots ofpeople, they compare themselves
to that curated image, they onlyfind themselves falling short
of, you know, whatever it isthat they're imagining they see.
And you know, I have anexperience when I was in a round
table group of CEOs.
This is an interesting insight.
And I was part of a group thathad 14 CEOs that were together
(13:08):
for a number of years as that2008, 2009, you know, economic
adjustment period appeared.
You know, globally, there werebasically six of us in that
group of 14.
Who went into and throughbankruptcy, out of 14, most of
'em, small business owners.
(13:28):
not one of those people,including myself, came to the
group who had formed arelationship of trust over a
number of years being togethertheir issue.
And so what it really revealedto me is this unbelievable
commitment that people have asleaders, as business owners.
(13:49):
To maintain the facade, right?
And to try to hold it alltogether.
And, you know, there's a lotthat can be talked about in
that, you know, space and, youknow, one of the gifts of all,
you know, one-to-one sort ofexecutive coaching is this idea
that you're not, there's no oneelse to impress, right?
So I tell my clients all thetime, let's just, let's begin
(14:11):
with one premise that you and Iare gonna traffic in nothing but
the ground truth we start there.
a lot can be accomplished if youwanna continue trafficking, you
know, in the world of makebelieve very little is going to,
you know, materialize outta thisrelationship.
So it's a ground kind of a rulethat I use with like, let's just
(14:32):
have a conversation you're nottrying to impress anybody,
you're not trying to avoid anyfacts, and we can get into the
real issue that you, or issuesyou're confronting.
And if we can do that.
The chances of you getting whereyou wanna go are exponentially
improved.
Paul (14:49):
Yep.
And I think that's the same inso many aspects of life as well.
Not just in executive coachingand business, but in so many
different things.
So appreciate you sharing that.
in terms of the story so far, sothen you've kind of wound down
the family business.
Was that the starting point foryou then looking to become an
executive coach to kind of helppeople avoid the same sort of
problems or
Mark (15:09):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes you choose your path and
sometimes the path can be Foryou a little bit.
So I'd say it's a beautifulblend of both, you know, and,
you know, the company actuallycontinued on and it's a long
story that I don't want to, youknow, bore anybody with.
But, you know, the company thatmy family founded recently, like
a year and a half ago, justtransacted for$60 million.
(15:30):
And it is virtually in the samebusiness as it was, you know,
when we left it.
So it went through bankruptcy,got bought by some private
equity guys and they just tookthat platform and then grew it
and, you know, basicallyrecapitalized it and have done
very well with it.
So all the employees were, youknow, basically whole and
complete.
It was just the family that lostthe ownership of the business.
(15:52):
So I got into this thing,having, again hired my first
coach in 1999.
When that event occurred in2009, it was like I have a set
of skills.
And I just had this experienceand I have to imagine there's
other business owners who areconfronting similar
circumstances.
So, you know, why don't I beginto go out in the world and try
(16:15):
to find clients who arechallenged with some of the same
things and see if I could be ofhelp them?
That's where it began.
So it was a, you know, when Igot to the end of that whole
process and I didn't have myrole as a CEO in the business
and found myself.
You know, unemployed andwondering what to do.
I said, well, why don't I dowhat I know how to do?
(16:36):
that's what began my journeydown this path.
I'd say, you know, what I'veexperienced as a result of it is
that when I was the CEO of myfamily's business, and I've been
the CEO of a couple othercompanies as well you know, you
have the.
The impact on the organizationand the people and the customers
(16:56):
and the vendors that are in thatorbit, right?
As a coach, consultant, advisorthe impact is exponential.
So, just yesterday I ended upworking with two people who have
a combined footprint of, youknow, maybe a thousand employees
in two different businesses.
And I wake up this morning andafter we're done with this call
(17:16):
and this podcast, I'll go on andI'll work with a couple more
people today.
you know, again, a significantand broad impact on a community
of employees and that can go onfrom there.
So I love the exponential impactthat I can have now a coach, a
consultant, and an advisor, asopposed to, you know, the
(17:37):
limited impact I could have inmy other roles within a singular
organization, if that makessense.
Paul (17:43):
It does.
It does.
I wonder, so a lot of theexecutive coaches and leadership
coaches that are out there comefrom a, the traditional route is
from hr, right?
Or a psychology background.
And I understand why that is.
But you are coming from a placeof having.
Built business yourself and fromreal world experience how do you
feel that helps you be unique inthe space that you're in?
(18:06):
I'd say marketplace.
It's not a marketplace really.
It's a community, right?
I.
Mark (18:10):
Yeah.
Well, I think first andforemost, and I'm gonna use a
metaphor here that if had, Adrug or alcohol addiction,
chances are that if I'm workingto find a way out of that
addiction, the best place for meto go is to speak to a recovered
addict, right?
(18:31):
Somebody who'd lived the lifethat I lived, faced, the
challenges that I had faced, andhas found their way out of, you
know, all of those challenges,you know, through the guidance
of somebody who's walked thatpath.
I.
I feel similar in the sense thatif I were out in the marketplace
as a CEO and I'm running abusiness or an entrepreneur, it
(18:55):
would be helpful for me to havesomebody who's walked the path
that I've walked and faced thechallenges that I'm facing.
And so I think that's a piecethat I say to people all the
time I don't think there's achallenge you're gonna tell me I
haven't faced personally.
Or that I haven't worked withsomebody as a client who hasn't
faced that same challenge.
(19:16):
And in organizations, you know,as a entrepreneur, CEO, it's a
very unique role.
Every other role in thebusiness, you have individual
consciousness, which is me as,you know, a person working in
the business.
You know, team consciousness,which is maybe it's an
functional area, re you know,like a CFO or who has
responsibilities for finance.
(19:37):
But the one person who livesconstantly and never endingly in
organizational consciousness isthe entrepreneur or CEO, and
it's an all consuming 24 hourday, seven day a week, 365.
You know, it's that level.
It almost is like the businessnever leaves you even when
you're not in it, it's in you.
(19:57):
And so.
a very unique set ofcircumstances and unless you've
lived that and un, you know,have a deep understanding, I
think it's harder to be ofservice completely and be of
help completely to somebodywho's going through that.
So that's how I.
I approach it like, you know, Ido it and I listen, I say all
the time, I am sure I've madeevery mistake you could possibly
(20:20):
imagine that you are thinkingabout making.
And perhaps my experience ofhaving already made that mistake
could help you avoid it, right?
So, I lot of hubris, I do notpretend like I have the answers,
I own the truth.
have the experience I have andhave been witness to the
experience of many others.
(20:40):
hopefully from all that gatheredwisdom I can be of help to you.
Paul (20:45):
Well, that's also the premise of being a CEO, right?
Is like, you don't need to haveall the answers, you just need
to know enough about the peoplearound you to get the right
answers from other people.
Or as one of my, one of my goodfriends said it's not about
having the right answers.
It's about asking the rightquestions.
And I think that's a beautifulway to sum up the role of the
CEO.
It's almost like internalcoaching, but you just don't
(21:06):
realize that's what the job is.
And then kind of bringing us upto modern day, you then you've
co-founded a Mexican grill inDublin.
I love that that, that's spunoff from what you were doing.
How did that come about?
'cause you've got a co-founderout, out in Dublin as well,
right?
Mark (21:20):
I do.
Yeah, Tony is his name.
And a long, it's a long story.
I'll try to make it as short aspossible, but I have been a
youth.
Coach.
I have four kids for 24 years,and I met Tony about 24 years
ago when his oldest son and myoldest son like four or five
years old, starting to playsoccer.
(21:41):
And I met him on the sideline.
He was one of the parents whobrought his son to the team that
I was coaching.
And then we hit it off and, youknow, have kind of remained dear
friends and his whole family.
I've coached both of his sons,both in.
soccer and rugby.
been an active, you know, youthrugby coach for about 20 years,
and I played for a number ofyears and refereed, et cetera.
(22:01):
So, loved the sport and and so Imet Tony in that world and he
and I a passion for a businessin Colorado in the United States
called Chipotle.
You may have heard about it.
It's a extraordinary successfulchain of fast casual Mexican
grills.
Tony wanted to take this idea ofMexican food back to Ireland.
(22:24):
So he did.
went through one iteration,exited the first iteration of
that back in 2017.
and I got, you know, backtogether.
And as he approached his secondwe talked about partnering.
And so he and I have been lockedat the hip and we have a
phenomenal team of people.
Who allowed us to, you know,realize that dream.
(22:46):
We have two stores currentlyopen, two opening in the next
say, month to two months.
And our intent is to, you know,grow it back to a chain of about
20 ish stores Ireland and thencome across the pond and you
know, try our our hand in the UKas well.
So that's our goal.
I mean, who doesn't love goodfood?
(23:06):
And, you know, this food isphenomenal.
I.
It's just really tasty.
So that's how I got into it.
Paul (23:12):
I have to say got the I've got the the webpage open and I'm
starving.
As we're recording this.
So the food looks absolutely.
I wish, right now I'm wishing Iwas in Dublin.
'cause I think I'd be banging onthe business door, so that,
that's phenomenal.
Coming back again, I guess tothe to the executive coaching
side of things ai, remote workautomation.
(23:32):
There are so many nuances torunning business in 2025.
What do you see as being thesingle greatest gift and threat
to a CEO in the current age?
Mark (23:45):
Yeah.
You know, I say this often toclients that I'm grateful that I
had my, you know, hand on thewheel running companies when.
was not a thing.
'cause there's so many variablesthat are moving at a speed
that's almost hard to wrap yourhead around.
(24:06):
The first thing I you know,would advise a client is, you
know, avoiding doesn't workright as a principle and hope is
not a good strategy.
So, you know, those are a couplethings just as principles in the
background, you know, because.
It's evident that AI is here andit's coming, and it will have a
(24:26):
tremendous impact virtuallyeverything that we do.
And a lot of my podcastconsumption is around this
particular topic.
So there's no avoiding it,there's no pretending it's gonna
go away or it's gonna go backand the genie's gonna go back in
the bottle.
So if all that's true, then youreally have to wake up and get
(24:47):
engaged.
right?
If you're not waking up andgetting engaged with all of
those moving parts, you'll beobsolete, I think, quickly.
And I think that runs across thegamut.
So, I mean, as an individual,you know, guy who has a small
little business with a fewpeople that are involved from a
(25:08):
marketing and administrativeperspective I use ai.
All day long and it is aremarkably effective tool.
So you gotta embrace it, yougotta see it.
You can't put your head in thesand and pretend it's gonna go
away.
So identifying, naming, and thenfiguring out with a team of
people.
If you have a team, what is yourstrategy going to be to
(25:31):
incorporate AI as a thing whenit comes to the remote work
environment?
Challenges, you know, I thinkevery organization is finding
their way.
Through this, you know, massivechange in even how we define
work and what work is.
And so, you know, I have clientsthat have a mandatory five days
(25:54):
in some who have, you know, oneday in four days out, some who
have three in and two.
I mean, you've seen it, youknow, there's no one way to do
anything.
I'd really encourage a businessowner to find the way.
creates a healthy blend betweenwhat they need as a CEO and
owner and what the employeesare, you know, basically
(26:16):
advocating for, to create abalance that works for
everybody.
And that's not an easy thing tosolve.
So I think we have significantchallenges and we're just at the
front end of really both ofthose trends.
So, it's a
Paul (26:31):
lot Yeah,
Mark (26:31):
bear.
And,
Paul (26:32):
there's a lot more to come.
Mark (26:34):
Absolutely.
And again, if you throw thehuman, nature to ourselves to be
distracted with social media,you know, just walking through a
business if people are in thebusiness or working remotely,
you know, the devices that we,you know, are so attached to.
Are a never ending knock on yourdoor.
(26:56):
You know, do you have a minute?
Do you have a minute to watchthis video?
Do you have a minute?
You know, and it's just like, ohmy goodness.
I don't begin to imagine whatthe impact on, I'll use the word
productivity is, but focus andattention and deep work have got
to be a challenge that's neverbeen felt like this before.
So you put all that together.
It's a hot, it's a big soup.
Paul (27:17):
And if you're watching this as a clip at home, yes.
You
Mark (27:20):
That's Yeah.
Paul (27:21):
So yeah I love that.
Mark, who are your ideal clientsto work with, and based on the
conversation at the dinnertable, what are they saying to
their family or their partnersat home that makes them.
It's the trigger point that theyshould be speaking with somebody
like yourself.
Would you say.
Mark (27:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I appreciate the question.
You know, the people that I loveworking with, I.
And are a great fit for me arepeople who, like I said, are
CEOs owners of a business.
You know, occasionally it straysinto that category of, you know,
senior leaders who run a reallybig organization within a big
company and who have a sense ofself-awareness like I have.
(28:04):
I've done everything I can do.
In spite of all my best effortsand everything I've brought to
bear to help me and the businesssolve whatever the challenge it
is that I'm confronting.
out of solutions, I'm out ofideas, and I need some help.
Right.
And I think that's the pointwhere the self-awareness
(28:24):
component of it is I really lookfor.
People who are open and willing,I.
To know that they don't have toknow and may not ever know all
the answers.
And by reaching out and invitingsomebody else in to partner with
them, that can accelerate sortof the breakthrough that gets
them past whatever it is they'rebeing, you know, challenged
(28:47):
with.
And usually at home around thekitchen table, it's, I don't
know what to do, you know, andI've tried everything.
I'm stuck I know that we,there's so much more potential.
not living into the potential.
Just had two, you know, guysyesterday in a conversation,
it's a father and son, familyowned business and that, you
(29:09):
know, they've been stuck at alevel of revenue and they're
very frustrated.
They've been there for a whileand they just don't know how to
get unstuck.
And so.
you know, if you go to mywebsite, you'll see like, you
know, you don't get stuck by,you don't drown by falling in
the river, you drown by stayingin it.
Right?
That's a
Paul (29:28):
Yep.
Mark (29:28):
that's right there.
It's this idea of, you know,you, you need to
Paul (29:31):
I love that.
Mark (29:31):
get yourself out of there.
So anyway, that, that's what Iwould say would be the ideal
client.
It's you know, it doesn't matterthe industry.
I've worked across virtuallyevery industry that you could
categorize.
just the role and that sense.
Paul (29:45):
I love it.
Mark, thank you very much forbeing a fantastic guest for us
today on the show
Mark (29:50):
Thank you so much, Paul.
It's been a pleasure.
Really enjoyed being here.
Paul (29:54):
and once again, thank you everyone at home for coming
along and joining us.
Thank you to our charitypartners, ADHD, Liberty, and I
will see you again next week foranother episode.
What makes a great leader?
Mark Musselman has built andcoached multimillion dollar
businesses, and he's here totalk about the no bullshit
leadership lessons that actuallydrive growth.
Mark is a business leader anentrepreneur and executive coach
with over 30 years of experiencein guiding leaders and
(00:22):
businesses throughtransformation.
As the founder of MX5Consulting, Mark helps business
owners, entrepreneurs, andC-level executives break through
challenges and accelerate growthusing his assess, align,
accelerate methodology.
Having already led two$30million plus businesses as A
CEO, he understands firsthandthe struggles of leadership and
(00:45):
the need for strategic clarity.
And in addition to coaching,mark co-founded Tula Mexican
Grill in Dublin, applying hisbusiness acumen to the
hospitality industry.
With a no BS approach toleadership, Mark's committed to
helping leaders just like youtake real action, foster, trust,
and create businesses that don'tjust grow but thrive.
(01:06):
Mark, as ever, that is a tallbio to live up to, but I'm
confident you're gonna smashthis.
Welcome to the show.
Mark (01:13):
Well, thank you Paul.
That's great to be here.
Paul (01:15):
you've been a CEO, an entrepreneur.
An executive coach what was theturning point that made you,
first of all, want to get intosenior leadership?
Because there's not, as a kidnot many people come along and
decide they wanna run a company,right?
Like, that's not where we,that's not where we start out.
How did you end up, first ofall, becoming a CEO?
Mark (01:38):
That's a great question.
I think what I have reflected onis when I was young all the way
through my primary education,through, you know, what we refer
to as high school and thenuniversity.
I never really was overlyexcited about anything in
particular.
It is demonstrated by the factthat I had five different, you
(01:58):
know, majors when I came throughuniversity and so my attention
was kind of going from one topicto another, and then immediately
after I graduated from collegeand went into the work world I
began to pay attention to thisidea of leadership.
And it was the first thingreally in my life it kinda lit
(02:19):
me on fire and.
It was through an experience Ihad in my first job where I had
the opportunity to observe greatleadership and, you know,
degrees of very unhealthyleadership that it really kind
of woke me up to the fact thatrole makes all the difference in
the world.
And, you know, as we can lookaround just globally, you know,
(02:42):
great leadership makes a hugedifference in.
every facet of life.
So I just became fascinated withit, and then I poured myself
into it.
I also happened to have the, youknow, the good fortune of being
born into a family that had afamily business.
I'm one of five kids, all fiveof us were in the business.
It was a about 300 and someemployees.
(03:04):
And I had a sort of flavor forthat role and.
You know, my siblings didn'thave as much of that flavor as I
did, I ended up taking over thefamily business at 30 years old
with 300 employees and 30million in revenue, and knew
enough about myself to know thatI didn't know all I needed to
know to run it.
(03:24):
And I hired my first coach in1999 when I took over that role,
and that was like the catalyst.
So, and I've never stopped.
Being fascinated with and doingeverything I can to learn
everything I can aboutleadership since that moment.
Paul (03:40):
It is funny.
So many great leaders that Ispeak to almost seem to become a
great leader.
In spite of the bad leadershipthat they experience at a young
age and in their first jobs andworkplaces that they're in.
And it kind of, you'd expect itto almost deter people from
wanting to become leaders.
But I find that the greedy, goodleaders see that and they just
(04:03):
think, you don't need, these,people don't need to be bad
leaders.
We're all capable of being agood leader, if not a great one.
At least a good leader.
There's just so much.
Lack of development forleadership.
Do you think that's fair?
Mark (04:17):
Well, I think it's very fair.
I think what I'm surprised byevery day.
Mostly because I live in it andI kind of swim in that water.
So it seems to me self-evident.
There's, you know, a set ofskills and it's a, it can be, I
think it's more of a learned setof skills than an inherited set
(04:37):
of skills.
And I'd say, you know, myjourney is included thousands of
hours of reading and watchingcontent, like a show like this.
Attending seminars, workshops,and.
I look at it as my leadershiptoolbox, right?
So I would listen to a podcastlike this with the hopes that
there is something in theconversation that I can add to
(05:00):
my toolbox.
so, you know, I think that manypeople show up may assume a
position or may that you know,may have pursued a position of
leadership, and then they stopgrowing.
They stop learning, and theyassume they have all they need.
In order to be eff effective inthat role.
And most people are underequipped, let me put it that
(05:21):
way, because
Paul (05:23):
Yep.
Mark (05:24):
many challenges that a leader faces.
and obviously the more complexthe business organization, the
more complex and diverse thechallenges.
So, you know, you have to beable to have robust toolbox
where a circumstance appears infront of you, and it could just
be.
(05:45):
That's a phenomenal skill for aleader when the, you know, I'd
say the reflex is to move and todo something just to stop do
nothing and listen and slowdown.
you know, those are things thatare developed over time.
You know, having made manymistakes in my younger version
of a leader, you know, when Ijust rushed
Paul (06:06):
Yep.
Mark (06:07):
decision making or judgment or assumption, to find
out that.
All of what I had assumed wasincorrect, and then having to
rewind it.
So, I mean, I could go down thelist and we could talk for, you
know, a couple hours about allthose, you know, unique skills.
So partnering with somebody, ifyou don't already have that, or
committing yourself deeply inwhatever form works for you to
(06:31):
acquire those skills isessential.
Paul (06:33):
So that leads us on nicely to the first question that I
wanted to really delve into in abit more detail.
So you've led, you know, a$30million business.
No doubt you've helped countlessleaders as part of your
executive coaching, but what'sthe toughest leadership lesson
that you've had to learnpersonally?
Mark (06:49):
Yeah I think the toughest leadership lesson that I learned
early and that I share often andI'm gonna say this in the sense
that you know theres an axiomthat kinda runs around
sometimes.
It says if you take care of thepeople, business will take care
of itself, which I think can betrue.
You know, certainly if you takecare of the people, the business
(07:12):
has a greater chance ofsucceeding.
I would say the distinction is,as a leader, as a CEO
entrepreneur, you have to haveyour eyes on both.
I say that because.
When I took that role as CEO ofmy family's business, we had an
amazing culture.
And the people in the business,all 300 of them were loved and
(07:35):
cared for greatly.
Having that as a background,this idea of you take care of
the people, the business willtake care of itself, you know,
expose the blind spot, which isyou have to take care of the
people and you have to take careof the business.
That seems self-evident, butsometimes.
And in our case, I think we gota little bit lost in all that.
How that can show up is, youknow, that there was so much
(07:58):
focus on welfare and the healthand the culture of the business
that some of the basicfundamental needs of the
business itself were not as paressential to our focus as it
should have been.
So that led my family's businessafter 50 years of ownership.
period of going throughbankruptcy back in 2008-9 was
(08:21):
also coincidental with somemarket challenges at that time.
If you remember the 2008, nineperiod, you know, for us it was
a pretty significant recessionand anyway, so I had the
unfortunate of unwinding andtaking a family business through
bankruptcy after 50 years offamily ownership.
I would say because.
(08:42):
It wasn't a both, it was, we puttoo much emphasis and too much
focus on that piece.
So, that's a very personalstory.
But it's one that I often sharewith clients when I come across
their tendency to listen to thataxiom and then operate outta
that same place.
So just probably very unique,but that's my experience with
(09:04):
one of the biggest lessons I'veever learned.
Paul (09:06):
I think thank you very much for sharing that as well.
'cause I can imagine that'squite a tough story to to share
emotionally as well.
But I imagine that you comeacross quite a lot of people who
are predominantly sat on oneside of that fence or the other,
right?
They either care too much abouttheir people or they don't care
anywhere near enough about theirpeople.
I.
And it's about finding thatbalance in the middle.
Mark (09:25):
Think that's a great way of saying it.
I don't know.
I mean, I would say, I don'tknow if there's a way you could
ever care too much about thepeople.
It's just that if you're gonnaspend that amount of time, you
know, focused on the welfare andthe health and, you know, and
the work environment thataffects people, you also have to
be incredibly mindful of all thedetails that, you know, are the
(09:48):
behind the complexities ofrunning a successful,
profitable, sustainablebusiness.
And, you know, so, and you hadsaid there might be a lot of
pain in there.
There, there used to be.
But now I speak about it as athing openly.
I used to be ashamed of allthat, but I, you know, it's, a
way for me also when I work withbusiness owners, most business
owners, CEOs live with a fear,and the biggest fear is that
(10:12):
they might somehow end up downthat path of losing everything.
having already been down thatjourney and, you know, come up
on the other side.
It is interesting because a it'sa little bit disarming.
You know, I'm not the guy whoshows up all the time with, oh
my goodness, I've only got thesuccess.
You know, we sold our businessfor, you know, 10 million and
(10:33):
I'm a superhero, none of that.
So it, there's
Paul (10:36):
Yeah.
Mark (10:37):
an ax, an accessibility that's afforded really as a
result of that story that Iwould've never intended or known
about.
so I, I don't go outta my way totell it, create that.
I.
Outcome, but it is disarming.
And then people becomeinterested in like, oh, wow.
Well, you know, I'm facing a setof challenges.
They tend to be more open, theytend to be more honest.
(11:00):
let's face it, you know, mostpeople who operate in the world
of business live in a world ofpretense.
Many, you know, are trying tolook good, avoid looking bad,
they'll pretty much say or doanything to continue they want
others to see them being insteadof what's actually going on.
So.
That's, it's been an unintendedkind of consequence from the
(11:21):
whole experience.
But I find it to be reallyeffective in my ability to
connect with business owners andCEOs.
Paul (11:27):
I think that, you know, when I align a lot with that.
A challenge around toxicpositivity, you know, and I see
that a lot on social media.
It's not like, but it pervadesinto personal lives and
conversations as well.
People think it's just socialmedia where we're doing that.
We don't, we do that in peoplewho are afraid to allow the
(11:49):
bumps of the road to be seen byothers.
They generally do it in theirown lives, to their wives, to
their partners, to theirchildren, to their friends and
families, and it.
I, it makes me sad when I seethat because, you know, I'm very
I feel like it's a gift that Ihave an ability to be open and
vulnerable with almost anyone,probably too much sometimes I
overshare.
But you know, that vulnerabilityis what allows us to create
(12:12):
genuine connections with people.
And when you try and remove thatand just showcase your success
you've got no common ground withpeople because.
We all learn from our mistakes,right?
Mark (12:24):
Absolutely.
I think, thank you for sharingthat.
I, it sounds like, you know, weare kindred spirits in the sense
that I, approach life the sameway I.
You know, I think we could allsit and have a conversation at
length about the challenges thatsocial media has created around,
you know, this ability to curatea, an image and then
(12:45):
unfortunately for lots ofpeople, they compare themselves
to that curated image, they onlyfind themselves falling short
of, you know, whatever it isthat they're imagining they see.
And you know, I have anexperience when I was in a round
table group of CEOs.
This is an interesting insight.
And I was part of a group thathad 14 CEOs that were together
(13:08):
for a number of years as that2008, 2009, you know, economic
adjustment period appeared.
You know, globally, there werebasically six of us in that
group of 14.
Who went into and throughbankruptcy, out of 14, most of
'em, small business owners.
(13:28):
not one of those people,including myself, came to the
group who had formed arelationship of trust over a
number of years being togethertheir issue.
And so what it really revealedto me is this unbelievable
commitment that people have asleaders, as business owners.
(13:49):
To maintain the facade, right?
And to try to hold it alltogether.
And, you know, there's a lotthat can be talked about in
that, you know, space and, youknow, one of the gifts of all,
you know, one-to-one sort ofexecutive coaching is this idea
that you're not, there's no oneelse to impress, right?
So I tell my clients all thetime, let's just, let's begin
(14:11):
with one premise that you and Iare gonna traffic in nothing but
the ground truth we start there.
a lot can be accomplished if youwanna continue trafficking, you
know, in the world of makebelieve very little is going to,
you know, materialize outta thisrelationship.
So it's a ground kind of a rulethat I use with like, let's just
(14:32):
have a conversation you're nottrying to impress anybody,
you're not trying to avoid anyfacts, and we can get into the
real issue that you, or issuesyou're confronting.
And if we can do that.
The chances of you getting whereyou wanna go are exponentially
improved.
Paul (14:49):
Yep.
And I think that's the same inso many aspects of life as well.
Not just in executive coachingand business, but in so many
different things.
So appreciate you sharing that.
in terms of the story so far, sothen you've kind of wound down
the family business.
Was that the starting point foryou then looking to become an
executive coach to kind of helppeople avoid the same sort of
problems or
Mark (15:09):
Yeah, I mean, sometimes you choose your path and
sometimes the path can be Foryou a little bit.
So I'd say it's a beautifulblend of both, you know, and,
you know, the company actuallycontinued on and it's a long
story that I don't want to, youknow, bore anybody with.
But, you know, the company thatmy family founded recently, like
a year and a half ago, justtransacted for$60 million.
(15:30):
And it is virtually in the samebusiness as it was, you know,
when we left it.
So it went through bankruptcy,got bought by some private
equity guys and they just tookthat platform and then grew it
and, you know, basicallyrecapitalized it and have done
very well with it.
So all the employees were, youknow, basically whole and
complete.
It was just the family that lostthe ownership of the business.
(15:52):
So I got into this thing,having, again hired my first
coach in 1999.
When that event occurred in2009, it was like I have a set
of skills.
And I just had this experienceand I have to imagine there's
other business owners who areconfronting similar
circumstances.
So, you know, why don't I beginto go out in the world and try
(16:15):
to find clients who arechallenged with some of the same
things and see if I could be ofhelp them?
That's where it began.
So it was a, you know, when Igot to the end of that whole
process and I didn't have myrole as a CEO in the business
and found myself.
You know, unemployed andwondering what to do.
I said, well, why don't I dowhat I know how to do?
(16:36):
that's what began my journeydown this path.
I'd say, you know, what I'veexperienced as a result of it is
that when I was the CEO of myfamily's business, and I've been
the CEO of a couple othercompanies as well you know, you
have the.
The impact on the organizationand the people and the customers
(16:56):
and the vendors that are in thatorbit, right?
As a coach, consultant, advisorthe impact is exponential.
So, just yesterday I ended upworking with two people who have
a combined footprint of, youknow, maybe a thousand employees
in two different businesses.
And I wake up this morning andafter we're done with this call
(17:16):
and this podcast, I'll go on andI'll work with a couple more
people today.
you know, again, a significantand broad impact on a community
of employees and that can go onfrom there.
So I love the exponential impactthat I can have now a coach, a
consultant, and an advisor, asopposed to, you know, the
(17:37):
limited impact I could have inmy other roles within a singular
organization, if that makessense.
Paul (17:43):
It does.
It does.
I wonder, so a lot of theexecutive coaches and leadership
coaches that are out there comefrom a, the traditional route is
from hr, right?
Or a psychology background.
And I understand why that is.
But you are coming from a placeof having.
Built business yourself and fromreal world experience how do you
feel that helps you be unique inthe space that you're in?
(18:06):
I'd say marketplace.
It's not a marketplace really.
It's a community, right?
I.
Mark (18:10):
Yeah.
Well, I think first andforemost, and I'm gonna use a
metaphor here that if had, Adrug or alcohol addiction,
chances are that if I'm workingto find a way out of that
addiction, the best place for meto go is to speak to a recovered
addict, right?
(18:31):
Somebody who'd lived the lifethat I lived, faced, the
challenges that I had faced, andhas found their way out of, you
know, all of those challenges,you know, through the guidance
of somebody who's walked thatpath.
I.
I feel similar in the sense thatif I were out in the marketplace
as a CEO and I'm running abusiness or an entrepreneur, it
(18:55):
would be helpful for me to havesomebody who's walked the path
that I've walked and faced thechallenges that I'm facing.
And so I think that's a piecethat I say to people all the
time I don't think there's achallenge you're gonna tell me I
haven't faced personally.
Or that I haven't worked withsomebody as a client who hasn't
faced that same challenge.
(19:16):
And in organizations, you know,as a entrepreneur, CEO, it's a
very unique role.
Every other role in thebusiness, you have individual
consciousness, which is me as,you know, a person working in
the business.
You know, team consciousness,which is maybe it's an
functional area, re you know,like a CFO or who has
responsibilities for finance.
(19:37):
But the one person who livesconstantly and never endingly in
organizational consciousness isthe entrepreneur or CEO, and
it's an all consuming 24 hourday, seven day a week, 365.
You know, it's that level.
It almost is like the businessnever leaves you even when
you're not in it, it's in you.
(19:57):
And so.
a very unique set ofcircumstances and unless you've
lived that and un, you know,have a deep understanding, I
think it's harder to be ofservice completely and be of
help completely to somebodywho's going through that.
So that's how I.
I approach it like, you know, Ido it and I listen, I say all
the time, I am sure I've madeevery mistake you could possibly
(20:20):
imagine that you are thinkingabout making.
And perhaps my experience ofhaving already made that mistake
could help you avoid it, right?
So, I lot of hubris, I do notpretend like I have the answers,
I own the truth.
have the experience I have andhave been witness to the
experience of many others.
(20:40):
hopefully from all that gatheredwisdom I can be of help to you.
Paul (20:45):
Well, that's also the premise of being a CEO, right?
Is like, you don't need to haveall the answers, you just need
to know enough about the peoplearound you to get the right
answers from other people.
Or as one of my, one of my goodfriends said it's not about
having the right answers.
It's about asking the rightquestions.
And I think that's a beautifulway to sum up the role of the
CEO.
It's almost like internalcoaching, but you just don't
(21:06):
realize that's what the job is.
And then kind of bringing us upto modern day, you then you've
co-founded a Mexican grill inDublin.
I love that that, that's spunoff from what you were doing.
How did that come about?
'cause you've got a co-founderout, out in Dublin as well,
right?
Mark (21:20):
I do.
Yeah, Tony is his name.
And a long, it's a long story.
I'll try to make it as short aspossible, but I have been a
youth.
Coach.
I have four kids for 24 years,and I met Tony about 24 years
ago when his oldest son and myoldest son like four or five
years old, starting to playsoccer.
(21:41):
And I met him on the sideline.
He was one of the parents whobrought his son to the team that
I was coaching.
And then we hit it off and, youknow, have kind of remained dear
friends and his whole family.
I've coached both of his sons,both in.
soccer and rugby.
been an active, you know, youthrugby coach for about 20 years,
and I played for a number ofyears and refereed, et cetera.
(22:01):
So, loved the sport and and so Imet Tony in that world and he
and I a passion for a businessin Colorado in the United States
called Chipotle.
You may have heard about it.
It's a extraordinary successfulchain of fast casual Mexican
grills.
Tony wanted to take this idea ofMexican food back to Ireland.
(22:24):
So he did.
went through one iteration,exited the first iteration of
that back in 2017.
and I got, you know, backtogether.
And as he approached his secondwe talked about partnering.
And so he and I have been lockedat the hip and we have a
phenomenal team of people.
Who allowed us to, you know,realize that dream.
(22:46):
We have two stores currentlyopen, two opening in the next
say, month to two months.
And our intent is to, you know,grow it back to a chain of about
20 ish stores Ireland and thencome across the pond and you
know, try our our hand in the UKas well.
So that's our goal.
I mean, who doesn't love goodfood?
(23:06):
And, you know, this food isphenomenal.
I.
It's just really tasty.
So that's how I got into it.
Paul (23:12):
I have to say got the I've got the the webpage open and I'm
starving.
As we're recording this.
So the food looks absolutely.
I wish, right now I'm wishing Iwas in Dublin.
'cause I think I'd be banging onthe business door, so that,
that's phenomenal.
Coming back again, I guess tothe to the executive coaching
side of things ai, remote workautomation.
(23:32):
There are so many nuances torunning business in 2025.
What do you see as being thesingle greatest gift and threat
to a CEO in the current age?
Mark (23:45):
Yeah.
You know, I say this often toclients that I'm grateful that I
had my, you know, hand on thewheel running companies when.
was not a thing.
'cause there's so many variablesthat are moving at a speed
that's almost hard to wrap yourhead around.
(24:06):
The first thing I you know,would advise a client is, you
know, avoiding doesn't workright as a principle and hope is
not a good strategy.
So, you know, those are a couplethings just as principles in the
background, you know, because.
It's evident that AI is here andit's coming, and it will have a
(24:26):
tremendous impact virtuallyeverything that we do.
And a lot of my podcastconsumption is around this
particular topic.
So there's no avoiding it,there's no pretending it's gonna
go away or it's gonna go backand the genie's gonna go back in
the bottle.
So if all that's true, then youreally have to wake up and get
(24:47):
engaged.
right?
If you're not waking up andgetting engaged with all of
those moving parts, you'll beobsolete, I think, quickly.
And I think that runs across thegamut.
So, I mean, as an individual,you know, guy who has a small
little business with a fewpeople that are involved from a
(25:08):
marketing and administrativeperspective I use ai.
All day long and it is aremarkably effective tool.
So you gotta embrace it, yougotta see it.
You can't put your head in thesand and pretend it's gonna go
away.
So identifying, naming, and thenfiguring out with a team of
people.
If you have a team, what is yourstrategy going to be to
(25:31):
incorporate AI as a thing whenit comes to the remote work
environment?
Challenges, you know, I thinkevery organization is finding
their way.
Through this, you know, massivechange in even how we define
work and what work is.
And so, you know, I have clientsthat have a mandatory five days
(25:54):
in some who have, you know, oneday in four days out, some who
have three in and two.
I mean, you've seen it, youknow, there's no one way to do
anything.
I'd really encourage a businessowner to find the way.
creates a healthy blend betweenwhat they need as a CEO and
owner and what the employeesare, you know, basically
(26:16):
advocating for, to create abalance that works for
everybody.
And that's not an easy thing tosolve.
So I think we have significantchallenges and we're just at the
front end of really both ofthose trends.
So, it's a
Paul (26:31):
lot Yeah,
Mark (26:31):
bear.
And,
Paul (26:32):
there's a lot more to come.
Mark (26:34):
Absolutely.
And again, if you throw thehuman, nature to ourselves to be
distracted with social media,you know, just walking through a
business if people are in thebusiness or working remotely,
you know, the devices that we,you know, are so attached to.
Are a never ending knock on yourdoor.
(26:56):
You know, do you have a minute?
Do you have a minute to watchthis video?
Do you have a minute?
You know, and it's just like, ohmy goodness.
I don't begin to imagine whatthe impact on, I'll use the word
productivity is, but focus andattention and deep work have got
to be a challenge that's neverbeen felt like this before.
So you put all that together.
It's a hot, it's a big soup.
Paul (27:17):
And if you're watching this as a clip at home, yes.
You
Mark (27:20):
That's Yeah.
Paul (27:21):
So yeah I love that.
Mark, who are your ideal clientsto work with, and based on the
conversation at the dinnertable, what are they saying to
their family or their partnersat home that makes them.
It's the trigger point that theyshould be speaking with somebody
like yourself.
Would you say.
Mark (27:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I appreciate the question.
You know, the people that I loveworking with, I.
And are a great fit for me arepeople who, like I said, are
CEOs owners of a business.
You know, occasionally it straysinto that category of, you know,
senior leaders who run a reallybig organization within a big
company and who have a sense ofself-awareness like I have.
(28:04):
I've done everything I can do.
In spite of all my best effortsand everything I've brought to
bear to help me and the businesssolve whatever the challenge it
is that I'm confronting.
out of solutions, I'm out ofideas, and I need some help.
Right.
And I think that's the pointwhere the self-awareness
(28:24):
component of it is I really lookfor.
People who are open and willing,I.
To know that they don't have toknow and may not ever know all
the answers.
And by reaching out and invitingsomebody else in to partner with
them, that can accelerate sortof the breakthrough that gets
them past whatever it is they'rebeing, you know, challenged
(28:47):
with.
And usually at home around thekitchen table, it's, I don't
know what to do, you know, andI've tried everything.
I'm stuck I know that we,there's so much more potential.
not living into the potential.
Just had two, you know, guysyesterday in a conversation,
it's a father and son, familyowned business and that, you
(29:09):
know, they've been stuck at alevel of revenue and they're
very frustrated.
They've been there for a whileand they just don't know how to
get unstuck.
And so.
you know, if you go to mywebsite, you'll see like, you
know, you don't get stuck by,you don't drown by falling in
the river, you drown by stayingin it.
Right?
That's a
Paul (29:28):
Yep.
Mark (29:28):
that's right there.
It's this idea of, you know,you, you need to
Paul (29:31):
I love that.
Mark (29:31):
get yourself out of there.
So anyway, that, that's what Iwould say would be the ideal
client.
It's you know, it doesn't matterthe industry.
I've worked across virtuallyevery industry that you could
categorize.
just the role and that sense.
Paul (29:45):
I love it.
Mark, thank you very much forbeing a fantastic guest for us
today on the show
Mark (29:50):
Thank you so much, Paul.
It's been a pleasure.
Really enjoyed being here.
Paul (29:54):
and once again, thank you everyone at home for coming
along and joining us.
Thank you to our charitypartners, ADHD, Liberty, and I
will see you again next week foranother episode.
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