September 30, 2025 • 32 mins
Today's interview is with my oldest son, Jake and his new wife, Livvy to chat about the new book I wrote for them and unpack five of the most common myths that sabotage new marriages and trade them for simple habits that build trust, respect and joy. Thinks we talk about in the episode are:
• faith first, spouse second as good advice from Livvy's Dad
• seeing parents model affection, repair and service
• differentiation over “you complete me”
• mind reading myths versus clear, simple requests
• growth includes discomfort and honest repair
• why happy couples do fight and how to do it well
• address small stuff early to prevent resentment
• learning together through books and shared language
• teamwork during stressful seasons and daily service
• date night as a sacred ritual for connection
If you’re newly engaged, early in marriage, or simply ready to trade fairytales for a stronger relationship, this one’s for you. Listen, share with a partner, and tell us: which myth are you ready to replace? If you enjoyed this conversation, you'll definately love my new book - Bad Marriage Advice: Debunking Myths That Will Make You Miserable and What To Do Instead. It's available October 1st on Amazon. Go to www.badmarriageadvice.com to get the book!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
(00:02):
After podcast.
I'm your host, Monica Tanner,and today I have a really,
really special treat.
Not only do I have guests, butthey are my oldest son Jake and
his beautiful wife, Livy.
I am so, so, so excited to havethem on the podcast today.
Basically because tomorrow, badmarriage advice, debunking myths
(00:24):
that will make you miserable andwhat to do instead launches out
into the world.
And I wrote this book for thesetwo and for anyone else who
wants to make their marriageamazing.
And so I thought it would bereally, really, really fun on
the eve of the big launch tobring them in, to ask them
(00:44):
questions, to find out theirthoughts about being newly
married, what they thought ofthe book, and all kinds of other
fun and interesting questions.
So consider this an interview ofa mom and her son and
daughter-in-law.
So welcome to the podcast, Jakeand Livy.
How are you guys doing?
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
Good, great to be here.
It's kind of fun.
I had a podcast forever ago, andnow I'm finally getting to have
my own podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
That's right.
That's right.
If you really want a good laugh,you can go listen to my
six-year-old son Ike on thepodcast many, many, many years
ago.
He has some pretty goodepisodes.
So, Jake, I'm loving yourt-shirt.
Can you tell us what it says?
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
I forgot I was wearing this.
This is pretty fitting for thepodcast.
Happiest fresh made husband onearth.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
What does that mean, fresh made?
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
It's cosmic.
Well, the fresh made part, whenLivy ordered the shirt, it
didn't have that on it.
But fresh made, like newlywed,I'm guessing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:49):
Yeah, let's go with that.
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
Um, but when Livy asked me, well, I can't
remember.
Something about being the besthusband in the world, and I
said, Well, I might not be thebest, but I sure am the happiest
husband in the world.
So then she got me this for mybirthday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Oh, I love it.
And it's pink.
That's so fitting because pinkis Livy's favorite color, right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
And my shock say, I love my wife.
SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
Oh my gosh, you are so ducked out.
This is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
It's my Sunday fit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
I love it.
So that just makes me reallyhappy.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
So let's introduce you guys to the listeners a
little bit.
How did you guys meet?
SPEAKER_03 (02:31):
We met on our missions.
So a couple years ago, we atleast knew of each other while
we were on our missions.
We only talked a couple times.
But after getting home, we kindof reconnected at a mission
reunion.
So since then we became friendsand then started dating.
And yep, it's been a long butshort amount of time.
SPEAKER_02 (02:50):
When we first saw each other after the mission,
she had a boyfriend, and sonothing really could happen
there.
But then she broke up with aboyfriend and invited a bunch of
missionaries from our mission toher house for like a scripture
study game night.
And there we just became reallygood friends, and then I needed
someone to take me to theairport at 3 a.m.
in the morning.
(03:11):
So I texted a group chat withthat just so happened to have
Livy in it, hoping she wouldrespond.
And she did after no one elseresponded.
No one wanted to take me.
So I think she pitied me andtook me.
SPEAKER_03 (03:25):
That one actually was pity, but that was hard to
like you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
And then when I got back from my trip, I texted her.
I was like, Well, I have tothank you for taking me to the
airport at 3 a.m.
So then we went out forbreakfast.
She invited me to her classes.
I went to her classes because Iliked her.
We watched a movie that night,hung out the next day.
It was Halloween, hung out thewhole day, and then yeah, just
started dating a couple daysafter that.
SPEAKER_03 (03:49):
So I didn't realize the airport thing was so
important to you.
He always tells the story aboutthe airport when people ask us.
So it must have been prettyimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
It's a pretty good test if you're willing to wake
up at three in the morning andtake him to the airport.
That's yeah, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
And at 3 a.m.
in the morning, it looked likeshe looked or 6 p.m.
in the afternoon.
It was like I was actuallybaffled.
Like it was 3 a.m.
I looked like probably a pudgychipmunk, and she looked like
she had gotten ready for theday, and she hadn't, she had
just put on a poncho and gottenthe car.
SPEAKER_03 (04:21):
I might have been sleeping in the poncho.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
She looked very pretty and it was so early in
the morning.
So that was also cool enough.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
Well, you two did fall very, very fast, which is
fine.
And I joke that you weren't evenengaged long enough for me to
publish the book because nowyou've been married for how
long?
Almost five months.
SPEAKER_03 (04:44):
Yeah, almost five.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
We're getting close.
Okay, that's so awesome.
Really close.
So let's go back to when youguys decided you wanted to get
married and you announced it tothe world.
Did you get any advice fromanyone?
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
That's a good question because at first we
didn't think we got that muchadvice, but then I realized that
because you said we were gonnaget a lot of bad advice, I kind
of blocked out a lot of theadvice.
But then going through mymemories, we actually, yeah, we
did get a pretty good amount ofadvice.
We did get a lot of theclassics, like don't go to bed
angry.
I think I probably got a littlebit more advice than it's I
(05:22):
think Liv everyone thought Libbywas gonna be a professional.
So she doesn't remember a ton ofthe advice she got.
Um, but personally I got don'tgo to bed angry, happy wife,
happy life was another big one Igot.
And then I think it wasjokingly, but he said bottle up
your emotions and yeah, kind ofkeep to yourself.
(05:42):
But I think those were threethat I got.
I think the last one was more ofa joke, but definitely advice
that I got.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
There's truth in everything people say.
So, what advice has proven to begood advice so far?
Did anyone give you good advice?
SPEAKER_03 (06:04):
You need to search back in my brain.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
Most mom, honestly, most of the good advice I
remember is from you.
SPEAKER_03 (06:12):
Um, definitely lost from you.
My dad and mom.
I remember my dad talking aboutthis a lot growing up, and
especially before we gotmarried, and I know he talked to
Jake about it when he askedpermission or whatever the
permission is.
My dad always says that if youhave God first, your spouse
second, that your marriage isgonna be very happy and lasting.
(06:35):
Having your priorities straightis very, very important.
And that's proven to be verytrue to me.
I mean, we've only been marrieda couple months, but I can tell
that as long as I'm workinghardest to be obedient and keep
God as the center point of mylife.
And if Jake is doing the samething, then we're gonna have a
happy home surrounded orsurrounding Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
I love that.
I love that advice.
I think that's awesome.
That sounds definitely probablythe most to me.
Okay, something that's reallycool and not super common is
that you guys both have parentsthat are happily married to each
other for you know your entirelives.
And so I did kind of want to askwhat kinds of things did you
learn, maybe growing up,watching your parents, or
(07:21):
impressions that you had fromyour parents, or anything like
that?
SPEAKER_02 (07:25):
That's a great question.
One of the things that Iremember a lot is I don't know
if this was on purpose or not,but I feel like you guys didn't
really try to hide a lot fromus.
Like all the romantic things youdid were in front of us.
Like we definitely saw you guyskissing, we definitely saw you
guys like goofing around, but wealso saw you guys have
(07:46):
disagreements in front of us andeverything like that.
And I feel like that was veryhealthy seeing you guys work
through those things, but alsoshowing the more romantic side,
like not being afraid to showthat in front of your kids too,
is something that I want to dowith our kids too.
Yeah, just as a good I feel likeit's really healthy.
SPEAKER_03 (08:06):
That's awesome.
I think both of my parents havetaught me over the years what a
life full of service looks like.
I can tell that they'll boththey do both work hard for each
other every day.
It's like all they do.
But also besides that, not onlyare they serving each other and
serving us every day, butespecially from my dad, I've
seen a lot of okay, I'm a reallybig priority to my dad, but my
(08:29):
mom's a bigger priority than anyof us.
Which I think is good.
You have to be true to eachother even more than to your
kids because having a successfulmarriage relationship is so
important for kids to see.
So I like that.
Date night to my dad is moreimportant than taking one of the
kids out on a date, right?
Even though obviously you needto spend time with your kids as
(08:50):
well.
But that's something that'simpressed me through the years.
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
Yeah, definitely seeing date nights a lot from
you guys too.
Date night is sacred date night,and we try to make date night
sacred for for us too.
I know we're in the beginning,we don't have a ton of kids to
take care of, but um, we stilltry to do that weekly too.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
Oh, I love that.
It's not often you get to hearfrom your adult married kids
their they gleaned or theirimpressions from your own
marriage.
So I I love all of that.
Like that makes me so happy thatyou guys picked up on those
things that are important,right?
Like dad and I always strive toshow you like a very clear
picture of what a real marriageis like.
(09:27):
We yeah, you're right.
We didn't try to hide thingsfrom you.
We wanted to show you the goodparts and the tough parts
because you're gonna encounterboth.
So I love that.
And I love that, Livvy, thatyour parents serve and put each
other before the kids.
I just barely talked about thaton social media, how important
it is to, but I remember when Ifirst somebody first told me
that, and I thought that wasreally bad advice because I
(09:50):
wasn't married yet.
And I was like, no way, kidswill need me, and you know, my
spouse can take care ofthemselves.
And why would I ever put myspouse before the kids, right?
And then I got married andstarted, you know, studying
marriage, and I thought, oh,yeah, that is really important
because you actually do yourkids a huge disservice if they
are a bigger priority than yourspouse.
(10:10):
So, but that was a hard lessonto learn, and definitely one of
those things that I love thatwas modeled for you.
So yeah, kudos to kudos to theparents of these kids.
I think you guys are super set.
Um, my next question is like,did anything surprise you about
being married?
Like, did you think of somethingone way?
And now that you've been marriedfor a little while, you're like,
(10:31):
whoa, that was surprising.
SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
Yeah, I definitely think there's been a fair amount
of things like that.
Um, I feel like it's been prettyhumbling, if I'm being like
completely honest.
A lot of things that I thought Iwas good at or considered myself
good at, like, have not, I mean,they've proven true, but not
really.
Like, this isn't like being meanat all.
(10:53):
But like, my patience hasdefinitely been tested more.
And I thought I was good, like,I thought I was really good at
communicating my feelings.
But when I care so much about aperson, it's definitely like
feelings get hurt easier.
Like, I didn't actually think Igot my feelings hurt very
easily.
Like, I thought I was prettythick skinned, but feelings get
hurt a lot easier when I care somuch about that person, and
(11:17):
sometimes it's harder to expresscertain feelings and why they
make me feel that way becauseI'm experiencing feelings that
I've never experienced because Iso it arouses a lot of feelings
that I didn't have before, andI'm not as good as I thought at
managing those feelings, sothat's definitely been humbling,
but yeah, learning how tocommunicate those has been a
(11:38):
huge thing that I've beenpersonally working on a lot that
I didn't think I would have aproblem with.
SPEAKER_03 (11:43):
That's cool.
I think at this point right now,the things that surprised me the
most is that I feel like we'vebeen married for so long.
Like I feel like it's beenforever, and I feel like a
totally different person thanwhen we were dating, which is
super weird because it's onlybeen four or five months, but it
feels like it's been a lifetime,not like a oh my gosh, this is
(12:06):
going on forever, but like Ijust feel like it's all I know
and it's all I want to know.
So that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
I think both of your thoughts kind of go into this
idea that marriage is apeople-growing machine, like
there's no better way to growlike yourself and be able to see
your blind spots and weaknessesthan to have another person all
the time that can see into yoursoul, like right, like all the
things that you thought you'rehiding from everybody, the
things you thought you were goodat.
(12:34):
You know, you've got anotherperson to just kind of mirror
back to you and show you thoseparts of you that you maybe
aren't so excited about.
SPEAKER_02 (12:44):
Yeah, that's been definitely fun and and
interesting, but I love growth.
So it's it actually has been areally good launch pad to to
grow more and to find myweaknesses and to grow from
them.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
And I think on the flip side of that too, you also
have somebody who gets toexperience all the joy and magic
with, you know, as well assomebody to, you know, mourn
with you and you know,experience like the tougher
times.
Like I think about, I mean, thisis a small thing, but our
basement flooded for the secondtime in a few months.
And, you know, that's likefrustrating and annoying, and
(13:18):
you just spent a whole bunch ofmoney and it's hard work to
clean out the mess that you knowhappens when the basement
floods.
But it we it's like we had a palto do it with.
So it's like you don't have toface the hardest stuff in life
alone.
You you've got a pal who atleast can like be there with you
in the suck of life sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
It's true.
Yeah, starting our marriage offgoing out for the summer and
selling in Minnesota wasdefinitely a really I think it
was a really cool and uniquechallenge because it was
challenging.
It was hard.
Uh like this probably happenswith a lot of people, but all we
wanted to do was be around eachother all day.
But we both had to work forsometimes 10 hours a day doing
(13:58):
something really, really hardand then getting back really
late, not having time to reallymake dinner.
And yeah, that was definitely achallenge.
But I getting back to Provo andhaving, you know, you get home
at five, and it feels like wehave a whole nother day ahead of
us because we're not used tohaving that much time.
So that's definitely beenreally, really fun, and it's
made it a lot sweeter having alot more time to spend together.
(14:19):
So that's been really fun.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
That's cool.
And making a home together.
I I have loved watching you guysdo that too.
Yeah, that's been also reallyfun.
Just making it your own.
Is there anything you wish youhad known before you got
married, or like something thatyou feel like could have
prepared you better for this?
SPEAKER_03 (14:36):
Or honestly, on that one, I didn't really This was
when we had trouble coming upwith an engine when we were
reading through the questions.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
Yeah, honestly, it's been kind of fun to it doesn't
feel like we're learning it onour own because we've been told
a lot of this stuff like wasgonna happen beforehand, but it
has been really fun to kind ofjust experience it.
Like there's no best way toprepare in my thinking.
Like it's kind of just one ofthose things where you prepare
all you can do.
Something that was reallyhelpful in preparing to get
(15:06):
married is we studied a lot ofbooks together.
Like we read one of the books weread was How to Talk to Kids So
Kids Will Listen and How toListen So Kids Will Talk.
That's cool.
Which was a really good book toread together because not only
were we learning, but we werealso discussing about it.
So we were learning thedifferent ways we would prefer
to parent and we would like toparent.
(15:27):
So we had really, really gooddiscussions.
I got to get a really goodpicture of how Libby wants to
parent and the different thingswe want to do when we are
parents.
But also I learned some reallylike deeply rooted beliefs of
Libby, like one of them beinglearning and teaching is are
some of the two most like godlythings we can do, and Libby
feels really passionate aboutthat.
(15:48):
So that was really cool to learntoo, which I think prepared us a
ton for being married.
Another one we learned was moreabout like intimacy and how to
live a healthy, intimate life.
I can't remember the name of thebook.
SPEAKER_03 (15:59):
Yeah, I don't remember either.
It was about sexual intimacythough, which was really I don't
really know what your audienceis for this podcast, but for a
lot of Christians who don't havesex before marriage, that was a
really important one.
Because we learned a lot ofthings from a good source
together at the same time.
This is after we were engaged,we studied this book.
Um, and we read another one thatwas a little less applicable to
(16:21):
marriage though.
But yeah, those were really goodfor us.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
Yeah.
Reading and studying together,that's awesome.
Just kind of trying to figureout your what your values will
be, your core family values.
I love it.
What do you guys think about mybook?
SPEAKER_03 (16:37):
Yeah, we've been studying that one together since
being married.
We read it like to each otherwhen we're driving places or
find some good times.
It's been really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
Yeah, there's been lots.
Can you give us a couple of thelike first maybe five chapter
headings?
So like to jog by memory.
Because I don't want to like I'mmixing like stuff I've heard on
your podcasts, I think, and alsostuff we've read to each other
in the books.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I just want to rememberwhat's specifically from the
book.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Yeah, actually, I think that would be super fun.
Let's go through the first,because I assume you've kind of
at least looked through thefirst five chapters.
So, like the first one is findsomebody to complete you.
What do you guys think aboutthat advice?
Because I think that's notnecessarily something that
people say out loud all thetime, but it's kind of in our
culture, like movies inHollywood, like you know, you
(17:27):
want to find your other half,your missing piece.
People say all the time, like mybetter half, my other half, my
better half.
You know, they think of eachother as halves of a whole.
So, what do you think about thatin your long term?
SPEAKER_03 (17:41):
I've never before reading that chapter, I hadn't
really thought about that insuch literal terms.
But reading it and being like,oh, that makes so much sense.
Obviously, I have to be my ownperson and then grow together
with Jake.
He's not like necessarily a partof me.
Two people who have similargoals and want to work together
(18:05):
to achieve our dreams, right?
That feels like such a healthierway to look at our marriage.
So I thought that was a superawesome chapter.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Something I found really attractive about Livy was
that she had a backbone.
Like she's she has her opinionsand she knows how to like
articulate those in aconversation.
And if I say my opinion and itdoesn't jive with hers, she's
not just gonna be like, oh yeah,no, that's true.
Like she's gonna give her side.
So yeah, I personally thinkthat's really attractive when
like she holds her ground andstuff like that, but then also
(18:37):
is willing to, you know, learnand be better.
Like it's not a stubborn thing,but it's like has a backbone is
definitely a big yeah, I thinkis really attractive.
And when people are just like,can't do anything without the
other person.
Of course, we want to betogether like all the time, like
that's not going away, but westill go to work and do our own
things, and we're both veryproductive when we're not
(18:59):
together, and then when we aretogether, we have such if I'm
going out and doing anythingfun, I would prefer that she's
there because I just have somuch fun with her.
But yeah, we are are twoseparate people and we do our
two separate things and have ourown ambitions and stuff like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
So yeah, I love that.
So that's calleddifferentiation, right?
It's where you two strongindividuals can come together
and share their life together,right?
But that doesn't mean they haveto agree on everything, it
doesn't mean they have to becomeone, meaning they can only have
one opinion about things.
And so it is really healthy andand it does create more passion
and longevity in the marriagewhen you both, you know, kind of
(19:36):
have your individual dreams andideas and and you're interested,
you stay interested in that,right?
So it's like, you know, Livy cango have her experience in the
world and you can have yourexperience of the world.
And then when you do gettogether, that's like more to
talk about, more to draw from,more to respect about each other
than just okay, whatever yousay, we'll we'll just do that.
(19:57):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Okay, so number two is if theylove you, they'll just know what
you need.
I think this affects littlegirls and women more than men,
but I've seen it actually bevery detrimental on both sides.
But I think as women, we'relike, oh, if we find the right
person and they love us enough,they're just gonna know when
(20:17):
we're sad, they're just gonnaknow what we need, they're just
gonna know how to like be ourknight in shining armor.
And I think that trips up a lotof couples because instead of
articulating or you know,saying, like, my birthday's
coming up, it would be reallycool.
I would love this.
You know, I think somewhere weget tripped up and think that if
we have to tell them it's lessmeaningful or something.
(20:40):
What do you guys think of that?
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
I love this one because yeah, this one's super
applicable.
When me and Libby were dating,one time she was like really sad
or upset at me for doingsomething.
And then she was sad and upsetat me for not responding the way
she would have liked.
And I just felt like so I didn'tI have any control.
Like I was like, I have no ideawhat to do, and I'm just you
(21:03):
know, she's getting upset at me.
But then she told me, like, hey,I'm upset, and when I'm upset,
like this is something I wouldlove for you to do, it would
mean a lot.
So then the next times she wasupset, she would say, Hey, like,
I'm sad or I'm mad at this, andthen I would know what to do
that would make her feel better,which yeah, some people might
call that like cheating or youknow, like attacking the system.
(21:25):
But then for me, anytime shewould tell me she was upset, she
would straight up tell me, like,hey, that that made me upset.
And then I would know what to doto make her feel better.
And then it was just so mucheasier.
So I really I really like thatadvice.
And Libby's really good at, Imean, you I guess you can talk
about that, but she said it'ssomething she's been working on,
and it's meant a lot to mebecause it helps me out a ton.
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
Yeah, in no way am I perfect or good at this, but
thinking back to like dating inhigh school, I was a lot worse,
and I've been realizing over theyears, obviously, when I'm
feeling any sort of negativeemotion, I can't expect Jade to
just know why.
So I've been working reallyhard, and I remember telling him
we were dating or engaged that Iwas working on explaining when
I'm upset, and not that he needsto make me feel better, but for
(22:09):
him to know how I like him torespond when I don't like
something he does, or when I'mmad or upset about something
that's doesn't even have to dowith him.
It's definitely been somethingI'm working on, just not
expecting him to know or to fixit.
So when I read that chapter, Iwas like, oh, this is so good.
All of Monica's chapters areexplaining my thinking, but in
(22:29):
actual words, which is great.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Well, that's so good, and that's so healthy
because if you think about it,if your partner is winning, then
you're both winning, right?
And so, like you like kind ofthe the crux or the big idea in
that chapter is like, what can Ido to help my partner win,
right?
And so if you want something, ifyou need something, you know, if
something would be helpful toyou, you just make a request.
(22:52):
And so that's what I try toteach in that chapter the
importance of being able tocommunicate what you want and
you need to your partner, howthey can win.
And then you both win.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally agree.
And I definitely learned thatthe hard way.
When I married your dad, whew, Ijust thought he should just
know, right?
Like he should be able to readmy mind, you know.
(23:13):
And not that I really thoughtthat, but just somewhere I had
this idea that if he loved meenough, he would figure it out.
And, you know, partners spenddecades doing that, like leaving
hints or giving each other thesilent treatment, or like
walking around just thinkinglike you should just know.
And that's it's painful for alot of couples.
Yeah.
(23:33):
All right.
So, myth number three, this is abig one.
It's a big complicated one, butit's this idea that the right
person will never hurt you.
And as we talked a little bitabout growth, growth can be very
painful, it can beuncomfortable.
And so the right person willactually challenge you to be the
best version of yourself.
And that does sometimes includesome pain.
SPEAKER_03 (23:58):
Yeah, I mean, just the fact that me and Jake are so
different and have grown up indifferent areas with different
parents, like lots of thingsabout him have challenged me to
be better.
I mean, obviously, I love Jakeand I want to be better for him.
But even besides that, justthings about him that rub
against things about me havechanged me for the better, I
(24:19):
hope.
So I think that's a super cooland important idea.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Good.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we don't have to get too deepinto that one.
I think everybody has their own.
But you know, we all come withour wounds and our raw spots and
the things that kind of, youknow, are are difficult for us.
And our spouse is gonna bringthat out of us, and that is the
best way for us to heal.
So that's a that's a really goodone.
Number four, happy couples don'tfight.
I'm sure you guys haven't foughtvery much.
SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
But the reality is that happy couples do fight.
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
Yeah, that's true.
I think it's funny.
Oh, yeah, a lot of peopleremember like their first big
fight and they'll share thatstory.
They're like, oh yeah, this isafter we got married, this is
our first big fight.
And when we were like dating andengaged, it's not like we fought
a lot, but we definitely didhave our little like things we
would disagree about.
But I felt like the way we'dhandle those was very good.
(25:09):
But we definitely had a couplethat I would I was thinking
back, I was like, I don't reallyremember which one was our
first.
I know that we've had a couple,but they haven't obviously held
their ground.
But I feel like the way wefought has been really good.
Another thing, helpful advicethat we got was like debunking
the advice like don't sweat thelittle things.
Helpful advice that we got waseven on the little things,
(25:29):
discuss them because the littlethings become big things.
So not that they're fights, butjust like little either
disagreements or little tweaksthat you can make to the way you
do things.
Sharing those and why they likeyou know rub the wrong way has
been super helpful to not dropany like super big, unnecessary
fights.
Because I definitely think thereare fights that are bigger and
(25:52):
necessary because they are likea bigger topic, but like don't
make little things become thosebig things for no reason.
Save the big fights for the bigfights and keep the little ones
small by communicating morefrequently on those.
It's something we learned beforewe got married, and we've tried
to use that as best we can.
I think that we've done a reallygood job of that, which
minimizes the big fights, whichhas been awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (26:13):
I just remembered this kind of has to do with your
first question about bad adviceI got.
But I remember we started datinga little bit after my sister got
married, and when Kate and Willwere engaged in dating, I
remember I have a lot of nosyuncles.
They'd be like, So have you guysfought yet?
And Kate was like, Nope, I can'timagine us ever fighting.
(26:34):
And the other week we werechatting with them, and Kate was
like, Oh yeah, I remember sayingthat they've been married a year
now, and she was like, Oh yeah,we fight all the time.
But she thought it was reallyfunny that she thought they
would never fight.
But around the same time, Kateand Will had been married a
while and were realizing thatit's normal to fight.
My uncles were talking with usabout it, and Kate was like, Oh
(26:54):
yeah, no, we do fight sometimes.
And my uncle was like, Whatabout you and Jake, Libby?
Have you guys fought?
And I was like, What?
Yeah, we fought like since westarted dating.
And they were like, notnecessarily telling me that that
was bad or giving me advice onit, but like just the the way
they looked at me, I was like,Oh, I don't feel like that's
(27:14):
necessarily bad.
Like, obviously, we're gonnahave disagreements, but I think
shade is definitely thrown onthat, maybe not necessarily
formed out in words as advicethat we should never fight, but
kind of frowned upon, frownedupon.
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Or like a sign of a bad relationship, right?
SPEAKER_03 (27:30):
Right.
So I definitely got that acouple times, but I never felt
like it was bad.
I I liked learning how tocommunicate better with Jake
when I or he didn't likesomething, and from the very
beginning we've haddisagreements, which apparently
Game Will did not, but itworked.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Well, I don't know if you remember this, Jake, but
I when you know you guys weretogether for such a short period
of time, and I was like, Haveyou guys disagreed or fought
about anything yet?
Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_02 (27:58):
Yeah, can't remember what I said, but I remember you
asking me that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:01):
You did, you did, and I said, How did it go?
And you said that both of youkind of stood your ground and
then you talked about it.
And I was like, Okay.
Because I don't think thatpeople should get married until
they've had at least one bigdisagreement and they see how
they handle, you know, seeingeye to eye, not being completely
validated, like not knowingwhere the other person stands on
(28:23):
an issue.
So I thought that was veryhealthy.
So, you know, even though youguys like dating engaged really
quickly, I was like, let's justmake sure that we've had a
disagreement, guys.
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
Yeah, we definitely have those.
SPEAKER_03 (28:37):
We have a lot.
We agree on a lot of things, butthere are still a good amount
where we don't see I die.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
That's that's good.
What's important is how yourepair and how you care about
each other and respect yourdifferences because they're
there.
That's awesome.
And then myth number five isdon't sweat the small stuff.
So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
I must be reading your book or something.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
Yeah, maybe.
Well, that's awesome, you guys.
That was so fun.
That was so fun to talk aboutthe first five myths, like to
kind of see how they've kind ofcome about in, you know, your
very short experience but goodexperience.
So uh my next question is whatadvice would you give newlyweds
(29:23):
who are, you know, kind ofconsidering marriage?
They're they're kind of at thatplace.
What what would you tell them?
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
I think I would tell them to read a book that my
mother-in-law wrote about happymarriage.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
I did not even tell you to say that.
But I love that you did.
SPEAKER_02 (29:43):
I definitely, I don't know if I'm in a place to
give good advice, but I think alot of those principles that are
in the book are really good.
Literally, one of my favoritethings that we did, and I talked
about it earlier, was read andlearn together.
Because personally, I think thatwas something important to me
was knowing the Importance oflearning and growing, and if
that person was willing to learnand grow with me, even knowing
(30:06):
that it would be hard.
And so reading those bookstogether, I got a sense of how
Livy understands information,processes information, and then
how she views that information.
So that was something that Iwould recommend.
I would recommend even a couplebooks, but even more important
than the specific books,learning stuff together.
Go experience somethingtogether.
Go or like have certaindiscussions about certain things
(30:27):
or go play sports together.
Even if both of you suck atsports, or if both of you are
really good at sports, justintentionally do stuff together.
That's gonna draw out certainsides so that you get to see
that side.
Obviously, you're not gonna seeall of those sides no matter how
long you date for, but justintentionally try to see all of
those sides and grow with theother person in any way you you
(30:49):
possibly can't set goals, dowhatever.
That would be my advice.
Just go experience stuff and seehow the other person experiences
it.
And if you like experiencingstuff with that person, I want
to experience the whole worldwith Libby.
Like we want to travel, we wantto have a lot of kids, we want
to learn new things, like read,but also experience stuff in the
world.
And I love doing that type ofstuff with her.
(31:11):
So yeah, that's something Iwould I would recommend.
SPEAKER_03 (31:13):
What do you recommend?
Yeah, that's a hard question toanswer.
But what I love about myrelationship with Jake is that
the top three to five thingsthat are most important to me
and that that are the top on mypriority list are also the top
of Jake's, which makes it superfulfilling when we work together
towards our spiritual goals,towards our family goals.
(31:36):
And then of course, there's lotsof things that Jake cares a lot
about that I I don't want to saydon't care about, but wouldn't
care about if it weren't forJake.
And it's fun to start caringabout random things that are
important to Jake just becausethey're important to him, and
vice versa.
I noticed when we were datingthat Jake would spend a lot of
time learning about the thingsthat I liked just because I
(31:56):
liked them, which was reallymeaningful.
So priority lists that arefairly similar, I think is super
beneficial.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
Oh, you guys, this has been so much fun.
Thank you for spending this timewith me.
I hope that everybody listeninghas enjoyed it.
Probably not quite as much as Ihave, but it's been so cool to
be your mom, Jake.
I mean, I remember putting youto bed when you were like four
years old and you were like,what do you think my wife is
doing right now?
And it was fun to imagine thatshe was probably getting ready
(32:26):
for bed and being tucked in byher mom just like you were.
And just throughout your life,I've always known that you were
excited to be a husband, thatyou were gonna be a fantastic
husband and father.
And it's really, really cool toget to see you do that.
So I think you are both solucky.
And I am so grateful to justkind of be a spectator, get to
(32:47):
watch you guys do this.
Like that it feels like such areward as a parent to get to see
your kids like, you know, justmaking their own way and making
their own family and you know,choosing.
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
(00:02):
After podcast.
I'm your host, Monica Tanner,and today I have a really,
really special treat.
Not only do I have guests, butthey are my oldest son Jake and
his beautiful wife, Livy.
I am so, so, so excited to havethem on the podcast today.
Basically because tomorrow, badmarriage advice, debunking myths
(00:24):
that will make you miserable andwhat to do instead launches out
into the world.
And I wrote this book for thesetwo and for anyone else who
wants to make their marriageamazing.
And so I thought it would bereally, really, really fun on
the eve of the big launch tobring them in, to ask them
(00:44):
questions, to find out theirthoughts about being newly
married, what they thought ofthe book, and all kinds of other
fun and interesting questions.
So consider this an interview ofa mom and her son and
daughter-in-law.
So welcome to the podcast, Jakeand Livy.
How are you guys doing?
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
Good, great to be here.
It's kind of fun.
I had a podcast forever ago, andnow I'm finally getting to have
my own podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
That's right.
That's right.
If you really want a good laugh,you can go listen to my
six-year-old son Ike on thepodcast many, many, many years
ago.
He has some pretty goodepisodes.
So, Jake, I'm loving yourt-shirt.
Can you tell us what it says?
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
I forgot I was wearing this.
This is pretty fitting for thepodcast.
Happiest fresh made husband onearth.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
What does that mean, fresh made?
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
It's cosmic.
Well, the fresh made part, whenLivy ordered the shirt, it
didn't have that on it.
But fresh made, like newlywed,I'm guessing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:49):
Yeah, let's go with that.
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
Um, but when Livy asked me, well, I can't
remember.
Something about being the besthusband in the world, and I
said, Well, I might not be thebest, but I sure am the happiest
husband in the world.
So then she got me this for mybirthday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Oh, I love it.
And it's pink.
That's so fitting because pinkis Livy's favorite color, right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
And my shock say, I love my wife.
SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
Oh my gosh, you are so ducked out.
This is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
It's my Sunday fit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
I love it.
So that just makes me reallyhappy.
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
So let's introduce you guys to the listeners a
little bit.
How did you guys meet?
SPEAKER_03 (02:31):
We met on our missions.
So a couple years ago, we atleast knew of each other while
we were on our missions.
We only talked a couple times.
But after getting home, we kindof reconnected at a mission
reunion.
So since then we became friendsand then started dating.
And yep, it's been a long butshort amount of time.
SPEAKER_02 (02:50):
When we first saw each other after the mission,
she had a boyfriend, and sonothing really could happen
there.
But then she broke up with aboyfriend and invited a bunch of
missionaries from our mission toher house for like a scripture
study game night.
And there we just became reallygood friends, and then I needed
someone to take me to theairport at 3 a.m.
in the morning.
(03:11):
So I texted a group chat withthat just so happened to have
Livy in it, hoping she wouldrespond.
And she did after no one elseresponded.
No one wanted to take me.
So I think she pitied me andtook me.
SPEAKER_03 (03:25):
That one actually was pity, but that was hard to
like you.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
And then when I got back from my trip, I texted her.
I was like, Well, I have tothank you for taking me to the
airport at 3 a.m.
So then we went out forbreakfast.
She invited me to her classes.
I went to her classes because Iliked her.
We watched a movie that night,hung out the next day.
It was Halloween, hung out thewhole day, and then yeah, just
started dating a couple daysafter that.
SPEAKER_03 (03:49):
So I didn't realize the airport thing was so
important to you.
He always tells the story aboutthe airport when people ask us.
So it must have been prettyimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
It's a pretty good test if you're willing to wake
up at three in the morning andtake him to the airport.
That's yeah, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
And at 3 a.m.
in the morning, it looked likeshe looked or 6 p.m.
in the afternoon.
It was like I was actuallybaffled.
Like it was 3 a.m.
I looked like probably a pudgychipmunk, and she looked like
she had gotten ready for theday, and she hadn't, she had
just put on a poncho and gottenthe car.
SPEAKER_03 (04:21):
I might have been sleeping in the poncho.
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
She looked very pretty and it was so early in
the morning.
So that was also cool enough.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
Well, you two did fall very, very fast, which is
fine.
And I joke that you weren't evenengaged long enough for me to
publish the book because nowyou've been married for how
long?
Almost five months.
SPEAKER_03 (04:44):
Yeah, almost five.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
We're getting close.
Okay, that's so awesome.
Really close.
So let's go back to when youguys decided you wanted to get
married and you announced it tothe world.
Did you get any advice fromanyone?
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
That's a good question because at first we
didn't think we got that muchadvice, but then I realized that
because you said we were gonnaget a lot of bad advice, I kind
of blocked out a lot of theadvice.
But then going through mymemories, we actually, yeah, we
did get a pretty good amount ofadvice.
We did get a lot of theclassics, like don't go to bed
angry.
I think I probably got a littlebit more advice than it's I
(05:22):
think Liv everyone thought Libbywas gonna be a professional.
So she doesn't remember a ton ofthe advice she got.
Um, but personally I got don'tgo to bed angry, happy wife,
happy life was another big one Igot.
And then I think it wasjokingly, but he said bottle up
your emotions and yeah, kind ofkeep to yourself.
(05:42):
But I think those were threethat I got.
I think the last one was more ofa joke, but definitely advice
that I got.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
There's truth in everything people say.
So, what advice has proven to begood advice so far?
Did anyone give you good advice?
SPEAKER_03 (06:04):
You need to search back in my brain.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
Most mom, honestly, most of the good advice I
remember is from you.
SPEAKER_03 (06:12):
Um, definitely lost from you.
My dad and mom.
I remember my dad talking aboutthis a lot growing up, and
especially before we gotmarried, and I know he talked to
Jake about it when he askedpermission or whatever the
permission is.
My dad always says that if youhave God first, your spouse
second, that your marriage isgonna be very happy and lasting.
(06:35):
Having your priorities straightis very, very important.
And that's proven to be verytrue to me.
I mean, we've only been marrieda couple months, but I can tell
that as long as I'm workinghardest to be obedient and keep
God as the center point of mylife.
And if Jake is doing the samething, then we're gonna have a
happy home surrounded orsurrounding Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
I love that.
I love that advice.
I think that's awesome.
That sounds definitely probablythe most to me.
Okay, something that's reallycool and not super common is
that you guys both have parentsthat are happily married to each
other for you know your entirelives.
And so I did kind of want to askwhat kinds of things did you
learn, maybe growing up,watching your parents, or
(07:21):
impressions that you had fromyour parents, or anything like
that?
SPEAKER_02 (07:25):
That's a great question.
One of the things that Iremember a lot is I don't know
if this was on purpose or not,but I feel like you guys didn't
really try to hide a lot fromus.
Like all the romantic things youdid were in front of us.
Like we definitely saw you guyskissing, we definitely saw you
guys like goofing around, but wealso saw you guys have
(07:46):
disagreements in front of us andeverything like that.
And I feel like that was veryhealthy seeing you guys work
through those things, but alsoshowing the more romantic side,
like not being afraid to showthat in front of your kids too,
is something that I want to dowith our kids too.
Yeah, just as a good I feel likeit's really healthy.
SPEAKER_03 (08:06):
That's awesome.
I think both of my parents havetaught me over the years what a
life full of service looks like.
I can tell that they'll boththey do both work hard for each
other every day.
It's like all they do.
But also besides that, not onlyare they serving each other and
serving us every day, butespecially from my dad, I've
seen a lot of okay, I'm a reallybig priority to my dad, but my
(08:29):
mom's a bigger priority than anyof us.
Which I think is good.
You have to be true to eachother even more than to your
kids because having a successfulmarriage relationship is so
important for kids to see.
So I like that.
Date night to my dad is moreimportant than taking one of the
kids out on a date, right?
Even though obviously you needto spend time with your kids as
(08:50):
well.
But that's something that'simpressed me through the years.
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
Yeah, definitely seeing date nights a lot from
you guys too.
Date night is sacred date night,and we try to make date night
sacred for for us too.
I know we're in the beginning,we don't have a ton of kids to
take care of, but um, we stilltry to do that weekly too.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
Oh, I love that.
It's not often you get to hearfrom your adult married kids
their they gleaned or theirimpressions from your own
marriage.
So I I love all of that.
Like that makes me so happy thatyou guys picked up on those
things that are important,right?
Like dad and I always strive toshow you like a very clear
picture of what a real marriageis like.
(09:27):
We yeah, you're right.
We didn't try to hide thingsfrom you.
We wanted to show you the goodparts and the tough parts
because you're gonna encounterboth.
So I love that.
And I love that, Livvy, thatyour parents serve and put each
other before the kids.
I just barely talked about thaton social media, how important
it is to, but I remember when Ifirst somebody first told me
that, and I thought that wasreally bad advice because I
(09:50):
wasn't married yet.
And I was like, no way, kidswill need me, and you know, my
spouse can take care ofthemselves.
And why would I ever put myspouse before the kids, right?
And then I got married andstarted, you know, studying
marriage, and I thought, oh,yeah, that is really important
because you actually do yourkids a huge disservice if they
are a bigger priority than yourspouse.
(10:10):
So, but that was a hard lessonto learn, and definitely one of
those things that I love thatwas modeled for you.
So yeah, kudos to kudos to theparents of these kids.
I think you guys are super set.
Um, my next question is like,did anything surprise you about
being married?
Like, did you think of somethingone way?
And now that you've been marriedfor a little while, you're like,
(10:31):
whoa, that was surprising.
SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
Yeah, I definitely think there's been a fair amount
of things like that.
Um, I feel like it's been prettyhumbling, if I'm being like
completely honest.
A lot of things that I thought Iwas good at or considered myself
good at, like, have not, I mean,they've proven true, but not
really.
Like, this isn't like being meanat all.
(10:53):
But like, my patience hasdefinitely been tested more.
And I thought I was good, like,I thought I was really good at
communicating my feelings.
But when I care so much about aperson, it's definitely like
feelings get hurt easier.
Like, I didn't actually think Igot my feelings hurt very
easily.
Like, I thought I was prettythick skinned, but feelings get
hurt a lot easier when I care somuch about that person, and
(11:17):
sometimes it's harder to expresscertain feelings and why they
make me feel that way becauseI'm experiencing feelings that
I've never experienced because Iso it arouses a lot of feelings
that I didn't have before, andI'm not as good as I thought at
managing those feelings, sothat's definitely been humbling,
but yeah, learning how tocommunicate those has been a
(11:38):
huge thing that I've beenpersonally working on a lot that
I didn't think I would have aproblem with.
SPEAKER_03 (11:43):
That's cool.
I think at this point right now,the things that surprised me the
most is that I feel like we'vebeen married for so long.
Like I feel like it's beenforever, and I feel like a
totally different person thanwhen we were dating, which is
super weird because it's onlybeen four or five months, but it
feels like it's been a lifetime,not like a oh my gosh, this is
(12:06):
going on forever, but like Ijust feel like it's all I know
and it's all I want to know.
So that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
I think both of your thoughts kind of go into this
idea that marriage is apeople-growing machine, like
there's no better way to growlike yourself and be able to see
your blind spots and weaknessesthan to have another person all
the time that can see into yoursoul, like right, like all the
things that you thought you'rehiding from everybody, the
things you thought you were goodat.
(12:34):
You know, you've got anotherperson to just kind of mirror
back to you and show you thoseparts of you that you maybe
aren't so excited about.
SPEAKER_02 (12:44):
Yeah, that's been definitely fun and and
interesting, but I love growth.
So it's it actually has been areally good launch pad to to
grow more and to find myweaknesses and to grow from
them.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
And I think on the flip side of that too, you also
have somebody who gets toexperience all the joy and magic
with, you know, as well assomebody to, you know, mourn
with you and you know,experience like the tougher
times.
Like I think about, I mean, thisis a small thing, but our
basement flooded for the secondtime in a few months.
And, you know, that's likefrustrating and annoying, and
(13:18):
you just spent a whole bunch ofmoney and it's hard work to
clean out the mess that you knowhappens when the basement
floods.
But it we it's like we had a palto do it with.
So it's like you don't have toface the hardest stuff in life
alone.
You you've got a pal who atleast can like be there with you
in the suck of life sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
It's true.
Yeah, starting our marriage offgoing out for the summer and
selling in Minnesota wasdefinitely a really I think it
was a really cool and uniquechallenge because it was
challenging.
It was hard.
Uh like this probably happenswith a lot of people, but all we
wanted to do was be around eachother all day.
But we both had to work forsometimes 10 hours a day doing
(13:58):
something really, really hardand then getting back really
late, not having time to reallymake dinner.
And yeah, that was definitely achallenge.
But I getting back to Provo andhaving, you know, you get home
at five, and it feels like wehave a whole nother day ahead of
us because we're not used tohaving that much time.
So that's definitely beenreally, really fun, and it's
made it a lot sweeter having alot more time to spend together.
(14:19):
So that's been really fun.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
That's cool.
And making a home together.
I I have loved watching you guysdo that too.
Yeah, that's been also reallyfun.
Just making it your own.
Is there anything you wish youhad known before you got
married, or like something thatyou feel like could have
prepared you better for this?
SPEAKER_03 (14:36):
Or honestly, on that one, I didn't really This was
when we had trouble coming upwith an engine when we were
reading through the questions.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
Yeah, honestly, it's been kind of fun to it doesn't
feel like we're learning it onour own because we've been told
a lot of this stuff like wasgonna happen beforehand, but it
has been really fun to kind ofjust experience it.
Like there's no best way toprepare in my thinking.
Like it's kind of just one ofthose things where you prepare
all you can do.
Something that was reallyhelpful in preparing to get
(15:06):
married is we studied a lot ofbooks together.
Like we read one of the books weread was How to Talk to Kids So
Kids Will Listen and How toListen So Kids Will Talk.
That's cool.
Which was a really good book toread together because not only
were we learning, but we werealso discussing about it.
So we were learning thedifferent ways we would prefer
to parent and we would like toparent.
(15:27):
So we had really, really gooddiscussions.
I got to get a really goodpicture of how Libby wants to
parent and the different thingswe want to do when we are
parents.
But also I learned some reallylike deeply rooted beliefs of
Libby, like one of them beinglearning and teaching is are
some of the two most like godlythings we can do, and Libby
feels really passionate aboutthat.
(15:48):
So that was really cool to learntoo, which I think prepared us a
ton for being married.
Another one we learned was moreabout like intimacy and how to
live a healthy, intimate life.
I can't remember the name of thebook.
SPEAKER_03 (15:59):
Yeah, I don't remember either.
It was about sexual intimacythough, which was really I don't
really know what your audienceis for this podcast, but for a
lot of Christians who don't havesex before marriage, that was a
really important one.
Because we learned a lot ofthings from a good source
together at the same time.
This is after we were engaged,we studied this book.
Um, and we read another one thatwas a little less applicable to
(16:21):
marriage though.
But yeah, those were really goodfor us.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
Yeah.
Reading and studying together,that's awesome.
Just kind of trying to figureout your what your values will
be, your core family values.
I love it.
What do you guys think about mybook?
SPEAKER_03 (16:37):
Yeah, we've been studying that one together since
being married.
We read it like to each otherwhen we're driving places or
find some good times.
It's been really fun.
SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
Yeah, there's been lots.
Can you give us a couple of thelike first maybe five chapter
headings?
So like to jog by memory.
Because I don't want to like I'mmixing like stuff I've heard on
your podcasts, I think, and alsostuff we've read to each other
in the books.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I just want to rememberwhat's specifically from the
book.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Yeah, actually, I think that would be super fun.
Let's go through the first,because I assume you've kind of
at least looked through thefirst five chapters.
So, like the first one is findsomebody to complete you.
What do you guys think aboutthat advice?
Because I think that's notnecessarily something that
people say out loud all thetime, but it's kind of in our
culture, like movies inHollywood, like you know, you
(17:27):
want to find your other half,your missing piece.
People say all the time, like mybetter half, my other half, my
better half.
You know, they think of eachother as halves of a whole.
So, what do you think about thatin your long term?
SPEAKER_03 (17:41):
I've never before reading that chapter, I hadn't
really thought about that insuch literal terms.
But reading it and being like,oh, that makes so much sense.
Obviously, I have to be my ownperson and then grow together
with Jake.
He's not like necessarily a partof me.
Two people who have similargoals and want to work together
(18:05):
to achieve our dreams, right?
That feels like such a healthierway to look at our marriage.
So I thought that was a superawesome chapter.
SPEAKER_02 (18:15):
Something I found really attractive about Livy was
that she had a backbone.
Like she's she has her opinionsand she knows how to like
articulate those in aconversation.
And if I say my opinion and itdoesn't jive with hers, she's
not just gonna be like, oh yeah,no, that's true.
Like she's gonna give her side.
So yeah, I personally thinkthat's really attractive when
like she holds her ground andstuff like that, but then also
(18:37):
is willing to, you know, learnand be better.
Like it's not a stubborn thing,but it's like has a backbone is
definitely a big yeah, I thinkis really attractive.
And when people are just like,can't do anything without the
other person.
Of course, we want to betogether like all the time, like
that's not going away, but westill go to work and do our own
things, and we're both veryproductive when we're not
(18:59):
together, and then when we aretogether, we have such if I'm
going out and doing anythingfun, I would prefer that she's
there because I just have somuch fun with her.
But yeah, we are are twoseparate people and we do our
two separate things and have ourown ambitions and stuff like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
So yeah, I love that.
So that's calleddifferentiation, right?
It's where you two strongindividuals can come together
and share their life together,right?
But that doesn't mean they haveto agree on everything, it
doesn't mean they have to becomeone, meaning they can only have
one opinion about things.
And so it is really healthy andand it does create more passion
and longevity in the marriagewhen you both, you know, kind of
(19:36):
have your individual dreams andideas and and you're interested,
you stay interested in that,right?
So it's like, you know, Livy cango have her experience in the
world and you can have yourexperience of the world.
And then when you do gettogether, that's like more to
talk about, more to draw from,more to respect about each other
than just okay, whatever yousay, we'll we'll just do that.
(19:57):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Okay, so number two is if theylove you, they'll just know what
you need.
I think this affects littlegirls and women more than men,
but I've seen it actually bevery detrimental on both sides.
But I think as women, we'relike, oh, if we find the right
person and they love us enough,they're just gonna know when
(20:17):
we're sad, they're just gonnaknow what we need, they're just
gonna know how to like be ourknight in shining armor.
And I think that trips up a lotof couples because instead of
articulating or you know,saying, like, my birthday's
coming up, it would be reallycool.
I would love this.
You know, I think somewhere weget tripped up and think that if
we have to tell them it's lessmeaningful or something.
(20:40):
What do you guys think of that?
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
I love this one because yeah, this one's super
applicable.
When me and Libby were dating,one time she was like really sad
or upset at me for doingsomething.
And then she was sad and upsetat me for not responding the way
she would have liked.
And I just felt like so I didn'tI have any control.
Like I was like, I have no ideawhat to do, and I'm just you
(21:03):
know, she's getting upset at me.
But then she told me, like, hey,I'm upset, and when I'm upset,
like this is something I wouldlove for you to do, it would
mean a lot.
So then the next times she wasupset, she would say, Hey, like,
I'm sad or I'm mad at this, andthen I would know what to do
that would make her feel better,which yeah, some people might
call that like cheating or youknow, like attacking the system.
(21:25):
But then for me, anytime shewould tell me she was upset, she
would straight up tell me, like,hey, that that made me upset.
And then I would know what to doto make her feel better.
And then it was just so mucheasier.
So I really I really like thatadvice.
And Libby's really good at, Imean, you I guess you can talk
about that, but she said it'ssomething she's been working on,
and it's meant a lot to mebecause it helps me out a ton.
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
Yeah, in no way am I perfect or good at this, but
thinking back to like dating inhigh school, I was a lot worse,
and I've been realizing over theyears, obviously, when I'm
feeling any sort of negativeemotion, I can't expect Jade to
just know why.
So I've been working reallyhard, and I remember telling him
we were dating or engaged that Iwas working on explaining when
I'm upset, and not that he needsto make me feel better, but for
(22:09):
him to know how I like him torespond when I don't like
something he does, or when I'mmad or upset about something
that's doesn't even have to dowith him.
It's definitely been somethingI'm working on, just not
expecting him to know or to fixit.
So when I read that chapter, Iwas like, oh, this is so good.
All of Monica's chapters areexplaining my thinking, but in
(22:29):
actual words, which is great.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Well, that's so good, and that's so healthy
because if you think about it,if your partner is winning, then
you're both winning, right?
And so, like you like kind ofthe the crux or the big idea in
that chapter is like, what can Ido to help my partner win,
right?
And so if you want something, ifyou need something, you know, if
something would be helpful toyou, you just make a request.
(22:52):
And so that's what I try toteach in that chapter the
importance of being able tocommunicate what you want and
you need to your partner, howthey can win.
And then you both win.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally agree.
And I definitely learned thatthe hard way.
When I married your dad, whew, Ijust thought he should just
know, right?
Like he should be able to readmy mind, you know.
(23:13):
And not that I really thoughtthat, but just somewhere I had
this idea that if he loved meenough, he would figure it out.
And, you know, partners spenddecades doing that, like leaving
hints or giving each other thesilent treatment, or like
walking around just thinkinglike you should just know.
And that's it's painful for alot of couples.
Yeah.
(23:33):
All right.
So, myth number three, this is abig one.
It's a big complicated one, butit's this idea that the right
person will never hurt you.
And as we talked a little bitabout growth, growth can be very
painful, it can beuncomfortable.
And so the right person willactually challenge you to be the
best version of yourself.
And that does sometimes includesome pain.
SPEAKER_03 (23:58):
Yeah, I mean, just the fact that me and Jake are so
different and have grown up indifferent areas with different
parents, like lots of thingsabout him have challenged me to
be better.
I mean, obviously, I love Jakeand I want to be better for him.
But even besides that, justthings about him that rub
against things about me havechanged me for the better, I
(24:19):
hope.
So I think that's a super cooland important idea.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Good.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we don't have to get too deepinto that one.
I think everybody has their own.
But you know, we all come withour wounds and our raw spots and
the things that kind of, youknow, are are difficult for us.
And our spouse is gonna bringthat out of us, and that is the
best way for us to heal.
So that's a that's a really goodone.
Number four, happy couples don'tfight.
I'm sure you guys haven't foughtvery much.
SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
But the reality is that happy couples do fight.
SPEAKER_02 (24:48):
Yeah, that's true.
I think it's funny.
Oh, yeah, a lot of peopleremember like their first big
fight and they'll share thatstory.
They're like, oh yeah, this isafter we got married, this is
our first big fight.
And when we were like dating andengaged, it's not like we fought
a lot, but we definitely didhave our little like things we
would disagree about.
But I felt like the way we'dhandle those was very good.
(25:09):
But we definitely had a couplethat I would I was thinking
back, I was like, I don't reallyremember which one was our
first.
I know that we've had a couple,but they haven't obviously held
their ground.
But I feel like the way wefought has been really good.
Another thing, helpful advicethat we got was like debunking
the advice like don't sweat thelittle things.
Helpful advice that we got waseven on the little things,
(25:29):
discuss them because the littlethings become big things.
So not that they're fights, butjust like little either
disagreements or little tweaksthat you can make to the way you
do things.
Sharing those and why they likeyou know rub the wrong way has
been super helpful to not dropany like super big, unnecessary
fights.
Because I definitely think thereare fights that are bigger and
(25:52):
necessary because they are likea bigger topic, but like don't
make little things become thosebig things for no reason.
Save the big fights for the bigfights and keep the little ones
small by communicating morefrequently on those.
It's something we learned beforewe got married, and we've tried
to use that as best we can.
I think that we've done a reallygood job of that, which
minimizes the big fights, whichhas been awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (26:13):
I just remembered this kind of has to do with your
first question about bad adviceI got.
But I remember we started datinga little bit after my sister got
married, and when Kate and Willwere engaged in dating, I
remember I have a lot of nosyuncles.
They'd be like, So have you guysfought yet?
And Kate was like, Nope, I can'timagine us ever fighting.
(26:34):
And the other week we werechatting with them, and Kate was
like, Oh yeah, I remember sayingthat they've been married a year
now, and she was like, Oh yeah,we fight all the time.
But she thought it was reallyfunny that she thought they
would never fight.
But around the same time, Kateand Will had been married a
while and were realizing thatit's normal to fight.
My uncles were talking with usabout it, and Kate was like, Oh
(26:54):
yeah, no, we do fight sometimes.
And my uncle was like, Whatabout you and Jake, Libby?
Have you guys fought?
And I was like, What?
Yeah, we fought like since westarted dating.
And they were like, notnecessarily telling me that that
was bad or giving me advice onit, but like just the the way
they looked at me, I was like,Oh, I don't feel like that's
(27:14):
necessarily bad.
Like, obviously, we're gonnahave disagreements, but I think
shade is definitely thrown onthat, maybe not necessarily
formed out in words as advicethat we should never fight, but
kind of frowned upon, frownedupon.
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Or like a sign of a bad relationship, right?
SPEAKER_03 (27:30):
Right.
So I definitely got that acouple times, but I never felt
like it was bad.
I I liked learning how tocommunicate better with Jake
when I or he didn't likesomething, and from the very
beginning we've haddisagreements, which apparently
Game Will did not, but itworked.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Well, I don't know if you remember this, Jake, but
I when you know you guys weretogether for such a short period
of time, and I was like, Haveyou guys disagreed or fought
about anything yet?
Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_02 (27:58):
Yeah, can't remember what I said, but I remember you
asking me that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:01):
You did, you did, and I said, How did it go?
And you said that both of youkind of stood your ground and
then you talked about it.
And I was like, Okay.
Because I don't think thatpeople should get married until
they've had at least one bigdisagreement and they see how
they handle, you know, seeingeye to eye, not being completely
validated, like not knowingwhere the other person stands on
(28:23):
an issue.
So I thought that was veryhealthy.
So, you know, even though youguys like dating engaged really
quickly, I was like, let's justmake sure that we've had a
disagreement, guys.
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
Yeah, we definitely have those.
SPEAKER_03 (28:37):
We have a lot.
We agree on a lot of things, butthere are still a good amount
where we don't see I die.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
That's that's good.
What's important is how yourepair and how you care about
each other and respect yourdifferences because they're
there.
That's awesome.
And then myth number five isdon't sweat the small stuff.
So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
I must be reading your book or something.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
Yeah, maybe.
Well, that's awesome, you guys.
That was so fun.
That was so fun to talk aboutthe first five myths, like to
kind of see how they've kind ofcome about in, you know, your
very short experience but goodexperience.
So uh my next question is whatadvice would you give newlyweds
(29:23):
who are, you know, kind ofconsidering marriage?
They're they're kind of at thatplace.
What what would you tell them?
SPEAKER_03 (29:30):
I think I would tell them to read a book that my
mother-in-law wrote about happymarriage.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
I did not even tell you to say that.
But I love that you did.
SPEAKER_02 (29:43):
I definitely, I don't know if I'm in a place to
give good advice, but I think alot of those principles that are
in the book are really good.
Literally, one of my favoritethings that we did, and I talked
about it earlier, was read andlearn together.
Because personally, I think thatwas something important to me
was knowing the Importance oflearning and growing, and if
that person was willing to learnand grow with me, even knowing
(30:06):
that it would be hard.
And so reading those bookstogether, I got a sense of how
Livy understands information,processes information, and then
how she views that information.
So that was something that Iwould recommend.
I would recommend even a couplebooks, but even more important
than the specific books,learning stuff together.
Go experience somethingtogether.
Go or like have certaindiscussions about certain things
(30:27):
or go play sports together.
Even if both of you suck atsports, or if both of you are
really good at sports, justintentionally do stuff together.
That's gonna draw out certainsides so that you get to see
that side.
Obviously, you're not gonna seeall of those sides no matter how
long you date for, but justintentionally try to see all of
those sides and grow with theother person in any way you you
(30:49):
possibly can't set goals, dowhatever.
That would be my advice.
Just go experience stuff and seehow the other person experiences
it.
And if you like experiencingstuff with that person, I want
to experience the whole worldwith Libby.
Like we want to travel, we wantto have a lot of kids, we want
to learn new things, like read,but also experience stuff in the
world.
And I love doing that type ofstuff with her.
(31:11):
So yeah, that's something Iwould I would recommend.
SPEAKER_03 (31:13):
What do you recommend?
Yeah, that's a hard question toanswer.
But what I love about myrelationship with Jake is that
the top three to five thingsthat are most important to me
and that that are the top on mypriority list are also the top
of Jake's, which makes it superfulfilling when we work together
towards our spiritual goals,towards our family goals.
(31:36):
And then of course, there's lotsof things that Jake cares a lot
about that I I don't want to saydon't care about, but wouldn't
care about if it weren't forJake.
And it's fun to start caringabout random things that are
important to Jake just becausethey're important to him, and
vice versa.
I noticed when we were datingthat Jake would spend a lot of
time learning about the thingsthat I liked just because I
(31:56):
liked them, which was reallymeaningful.
So priority lists that arefairly similar, I think is super
beneficial.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
Oh, you guys, this has been so much fun.
Thank you for spending this timewith me.
I hope that everybody listeninghas enjoyed it.
Probably not quite as much as Ihave, but it's been so cool to
be your mom, Jake.
I mean, I remember putting youto bed when you were like four
years old and you were like,what do you think my wife is
doing right now?
And it was fun to imagine thatshe was probably getting ready
(32:26):
for bed and being tucked in byher mom just like you were.
And just throughout your life,I've always known that you were
excited to be a husband, thatyou were gonna be a fantastic
husband and father.
And it's really, really cool toget to see you do that.
So I think you are both solucky.
And I am so grateful to justkind of be a spectator, get to
(32:47):
watch you guys do this.
Like that it feels like such areward as a parent to get to see
your kids like, you know, justmaking their own way and making
their own family and you know,choosing.
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