February 18, 2025 • 38 mins
This episode addresses how to navigate feelings of disappointment in a relationship, particularly following Valentine's Day. We explore effective communication strategies, the importance of honesty, and techniques to foster understanding and empathy during tough conversations.
• Discussing the common aftermath of unmet expectations
• Importance of maintaining open and honest communication
• Techniques to express feelings without emotional dumping
• Establishing ground rules for productive conversations
• The WAIT method: understanding the purpose of dialogue
• Acknowledging and responding to each other's emotions with empathy
• Strategies for creating a safe space for honest discussions
• Importance of preemptively addressing feelings to prevent resentment
• The value of mutual understanding in resolving conflicts
• Building intimacy through vulnerability and active listening
For help in having these discussions, please book a 30 minute complimentary call using this link: https://tidycal.com/onthebrightersideoflife/call
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, monica Tanner,with my co-host, nate Bagley,
and we are so excited to recordtoday.
It is the day after Valentine'sDay and we want to address a
topic because I have gotten aton of DMs.
I don't know about you, nate,but I don't check my DMs, so
(00:22):
Wives who had maybe a biggerexpectation for Valentine's Day,
or they were hoping forsomething, or maybe even they
asked for something and theyfeel like their spouse did not
come through for them and sothey're disappointed and trying
to figure out, like, how do Ibring it up?
Do I even bring it up?
Do I just swallow it down?
(00:42):
Like, how do I bring up thatuncomfortable topic of I'm
disappointed?
I wish this had happeneddifferently.
And how do we?
How do we get through that?
How do we bring that up in areally um, like an effective way
that our spouse won't shut downor just be like, oh, there's
(01:03):
such a nag or nothing I ever dois good enough.
I feel like this is a verytimely topic.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I agree.
I agree there's a lot ofresources and skills that you
can develop to help youaccomplish this.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Totally, totally, and I think you're like the king of
having the tough conversations,right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, I don't think that that's necessarily true.
I think in theory maybe, but inpractice it's a lot harder than
all of this stuff is harder inpractice than it is in theory.
Because, you're dealing withemotions and you're dealing with
people's histories and theiremotional triggers, and you're
(01:44):
dealing with people's historiesand their emotional triggers and
you're dealing with, likesomething as simple as their
tone of voice or the mood thatthey're in, or whether or not
they're feeling sick or healthy,or that there's so many things
that can make having hardconversations harder than if the
conditions were perfect.
The conditions are rarelyperfect, let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I agree if the conditions were perfect and the
conditions are rarely perfect,let's be honest, I agree and I
think.
Just because I think, justbecause we have the skills or we
study the skills or we teachother people the skills, that
doesn't necessarily even meanwhen it's time for us to use the
skills that they are readilyavailable to us, there's always,
you know, something unexpectedor we feel triggered or we
really have to dig deep.
So you know, we struggle, justlike everybody else.
(02:27):
But yes, there are skills thatyou can tap into to be able to
have these conversationseffectively, even when you're
feeling really disappointed, andespecially when you're feeling
very disappointed.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, I think the and I think the work starts before
you enter the arena, expressingnegative emotions whether it's
anger, frustration,disappointment, betrayal there's
so many negative emotions thatcan come up in your relationship
(03:01):
and expressing those is alwaysgoing to go better If you have
made an honor agreements abouthow you're going to engage in
these conversations beforehand,you lay some ground rules.
If you don't have ground rules,it's really easy to play dirty,
because that's human nature.
Human nature is I want toprotect myself, I want to defend
(03:24):
myself against the threat.
And if you haven't madeexplicit agreements with your
partner about how you're goingto engage in these conversations
and make sure that you're beingrespectful and make sure that
you're honoring yourrelationship and being and that
you're not going to make thingsworse in an act of
self-preservation than youinevitably will Like, it's hard
(03:46):
enough to.
It's hard enough to fight cleanwithout or with the rules.
That if you don't have rules ofengagement beforehand, it makes
it almost impossible, I think,for two emotionally charged
people to have a productiveconversation and to walk away
feeling validated and understoodand with a with like a a good,
cogent plan to move forward.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So true.
So, before we get into thosekind of example of those rules,
cause I want you to give me someexamples and I'll give you some
examples of some of our rulesof engagement.
But like I think kind of thefirst rule is to be perfectly
honest with each other, becauseI don't think you're gaining
anything by not having theseconversations.
(04:28):
I think people often think like, oh, it's not a big deal, I'll
forget about it.
Or, like you know, like I justneed to push it down because I
don't want to bring it up,because, you know, I don't want
to seem like a nag or somethinglike that, and I think that is
really bad, misguided, whetherit's advice or just what you saw
growing up because your partnercan always tell, like, if
(04:50):
you're disappointed andsomething didn't go your way and
you're like no, I'm just notgoing to say anything, I'm just
going to it comes out sidewaysand your partner can tell that
something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So we're really good at math.
We are human beings, are reallygood at mapping each other's
emotions and thoughts, and youcan tell when somebody is not
being forthright with you.
You can tell when somebody istalking out of the side of their
mouth, especially when you livewith them.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So let's just agree that if you're feeling
disappointed about something,that the best course of action
is to have the conversation,even if you struggle through it.
We're going to give you somereally good tips and tools in
this episode, but let's justlike decide right now that we're
we're going to have theconversation, rather than try to
(05:39):
stuff it down or try to ignoreit.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I like what you said at the beginning, that we're
going to be honest, because Ithink when we think about being
honest, I like to define whatwords mean lately, because I
think it's really easy forsomebody to hear a word and what
they think of when they hearthat word is not the same thing
of what we mean when we say theword.
(06:01):
And I think that there's partsto honesty.
I think some people think, inthe spirit of honesty, that they
have the right to likeemotionally dump on their
partner, like they store up alltheir negative emotions and back
up the trailer and they're likehere's my honesty.
And because we're married,we're in a relationship, you
need to, you need to hear thisand you're not allowed to be
(06:23):
defensive or hurt or anything.
Just need to.
You need to.
Let me bury you in all of mycomplaints and frustrations and
anger and hurt and um, and ifyou don't take it, then you're a
bad partner and um, honestydoes not give you a blank check
to emotionally unload onsomebody.
Um, that's one.
So that's one technicality.
(06:43):
That.
So when we say be honest,that's not what we mean, that
you do have a free pass to saywhatever you want.
Um, the other thing abouthonesty that I want to say
before we dive into, like whatmaybe honesty actually looks
like, or a good, uh, honesty inits in its best form.
Um, the other thing that theingredient that I think we often
miss out on, is that, if youwant to have a marriage that is
(07:04):
filled with honesty, um, there'stwo parts of it.
One part is is telling the truthand being honest about your
experience and what happened,but the other part of it is
being able to, um, receive hardtruths, to hear things that
might not sit well with you andmight threaten your reality and
might feel, um, feel hurtful or,uh, you or you might be the
(07:27):
villain in somebody's story, andto not lose yourself.
If you punish your partner forbeing honest with you, they will
not be honest with you in thefuture.
So, if somebody comes to youand says I need to tell you
something, something that isaffecting me, that's weighing on
me, it's important to me, andyou lash out and punish them and
(07:52):
berate them or get defensiveand angry, they're going to
avoid those conversations moreand more, and then you're going
to be living in a marriagethat's full of dishonesty and
secrets, because you haven'tcreated a space where your
partner can be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so true, so true, so important.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So those are two things that I would watch out
for before we dive into talkingabout to having these
conversations.
One, be careful not toemotionally unload.
And then two, practice holdingonto yourself when bad, when
hard news comes your way.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and actually what I think about when I think
about, like, preparing for aconversation that you want to
have with your spouse aboutbeing disappointed about
something, is the acronym WAIT.
Why am I talking?
So it's really important.
Like, are you talking to punishyour partner?
Are you talking to change yourpartner's behavior, or are you
(08:51):
talking to make yourrelationship better and stronger
?
And that is always.
I'm always going to tell you toask for what you want in an
honest and skillful way.
And so if you wait before divinginto the conversation without
thinking about it, I thinkestablish.
(09:13):
Why am I talking?
So that my partner willunderstand and know me better,
so that I can know andunderstand my partner better.
Because there might be a reasonwhy they didn't do anything for
you for Valentine's day, right.
And so if you show up with thatcuriosity, wanting to know your
partner better, because theremight be a reason why they
didn't do anything for you forValentine's Day, right.
And so if you show up with thatcuriosity, wanting to know your
partner better, wanting them tounderstand you better, that's
going to be better.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And remember that you're talking to somebody that
you love.
So let's, let's talk aboutthese rules to somebody that you
love.
So let's, let's talk aboutthese rules, cause I love this
idea.
Um, I think number one beforediving into a conversation,
attempting a conversation aboutmaybe being disappointed with
your partner about somethingyou're always going to want to
(09:58):
contract good, healthyrelationships, use contracting
well.
So you don't want to, like Natesaid in past episodes, you
don't want to catch him rightwhen he comes in from a very
busy day at work, or when she isstressed and trying to get
dinner on the table and hastoddlers hanging on her ankles.
You want to go to your partnerand say, hey, I would love to
(10:26):
talk to you for a few minutesabout, you know, valentine's day
, how that went.
Is now a good time, yeah, or isthere a better time?
So you always want to kind ofcontract with your partner to
make sure it's a good time tohave this conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah and and let's be honest, like this is the ideal.
There's just going to be timeswhere emotions boil over in the
heat of the moment and thingscome up and it feels like the
conversation, it's like a dam,breaks and you can't hold it
back anymore.
And so if you don't have theluxury of saying like, hey,
(11:01):
let's schedule a conversationfor later this evening, when the
house is quiet, and like that'sjust unrealistic, and you're
driving in the car and your kidshave headphones on and you're
just like both boiling, boilingover and seething Like, the most
important thing I can recommendis number one take some deep
breaths in the heat of themoment.
(11:22):
Number two remind your partnerthat you're on the same team,
that you love them, and you cantell that they're hurting, that
they're upset about somethingand you would like to hear them
out Anything that you can do todiffuse the criticism,
defensiveness spiral which isoften what these conversations
turn into here's why you'rewrong, here's why you're bad,
(11:44):
here's why you're bad, here'swhy you hurt me, here's why
you're the villain, here's whyI'm the hero, here's why?
Or the victim, here's why I'mright, here's why I'm good.
And anytime a conversationveers in that direction, it's
just it's unlikely to go welland the best way to avoid it is
to calm your physiology down.
And the best way to avoid it isto calm your physiology down,
(12:04):
like, keep your heart rate low,take some deep breaths and see
if you can acknowledge yourpartner's pain and let them know
that you can, you can be thereceptacle, like, you can hold
onto yourself, and that you can,you have, you have the capacity
to hear and receive their painwithout, without making it about
(12:26):
you.
If you can do that one littlething at the very beginning,
oftentimes the the high emotionthat your partner might have in
that moment will like simmerdown real quick and they'll be
like, oh okay, they're not goingto defend themselves here Like
we can we.
One of my favorite I know Iquote Dr Gottman a lot, john
(12:46):
Gottman, but one of my favoritequotes from him is he says I'm
going to paraphrase but it's thepurpose of conflict in a
relationship is not to resolvethe conflict, it's to create
mutual understanding and it'ssomething like 69% of conflict
is unresolvable, it's perpetualconflict.
It comes up, these conflictscome up again and again and
(13:07):
again and they don't ever goaway because they're based on
personality preferences orthey're based on, just like our
habits, our desires, just kindof like who we are as people.
And that's a lot.
That's a high percentage ofconflict, and if you try and
solve unsolvable problems,you're just going to pull your
hair out.
It's going to drive you bonkers.
So the best thing you can do isrealign, reset your goals and
(13:31):
just realize that sometimes,when your partner's hurting, all
they need is somebody to haveempathy and understand where
they're coming from, and it canbe one of the most challenging
things to do in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's true, it's true.
Okay, so best case scenariocontract.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
But if you can't make sure that you're taking some
breaths and kind of settingyourself, Holding on to yourself
, and if you can't do that, thenpolitely ask your partner if
you can talk about it later.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, uh, another thing that's really
, uh, you you pointed out,making certain that you're on
the right, that you're on thesame team, but also trying to be
making sure that you're concisebecause, like you said, it is,
you know, if you're constantlyor consistently dumping on your
(14:23):
partner, we call that unbridledself-expression.
So if you go to your partnerand you're like, hey, I'd love
to talk about blank, and they'rebracing themselves for like 45
minutes of like a tongue lashing, that's not going to go well.
So take a few minutes to tryand make your thoughts really
concise.
Now I teach a tool called thefeedback wheel where you can
(14:45):
talk about something that'supsetting you.
You get eight sentences max, sowe won't go into that on this
episode, but the more conciseyou can be, the better.
So you want your partner toknow that, like, if you need to
talk something out, that they'renot going to be sitting there,
they're not like stuck and justlistening to you dump on them
(15:07):
and, you know, reassure them.
Hey, this is going to be superquick.
I just I want to talk to youabout something that's really
bothering me and I think, once Iget it off my chest and we can
have a short conversation aboutit, I will feel so much better.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, as a person who I'm, a, I'm an, I'm an, a
dumper.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
That's a weird thing to say.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, I, I mean, I'm a verbal processor.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Um, yes, and so sometimes I'm like trying to
find my words and it takes awhile, and it's why therapy
having a good therapist or agood friend who's like an
advocate of your marriage and isa really good to kind of it's
good for me to sometimes go fora walk and talk things through
with them first and get anorganized my thoughts before I
talk to my partner.
But one thing that I havenoticed for those of you who
(15:54):
might feel like you have apartner who just can't shut up
about a problem and they justcomplain and complain and
complain and they're perpetuallydisappointed this is a
conversation we're having in ourmarriage right now.
Actually, we had this longconversation this week about
this very thing.
My wife expressed the she, she,she said she was having a rough
(16:16):
week, um, so she was feeling alittle bit emotionally beat down
and when, whenever that happens, it kind of skews your
perception a little bit.
But she mentioned that she feltlike I was, um, disappointed in
her more often than not, and soshe was walking around with
this experience of Nate'sdisappointed in me.
I just am a disappointment as awife, I just am not a good wife
and I'm like that is not theexperience that I want to give
(16:39):
my wife at all, like I don'twant her to feel like she's a
constant disappointment and solike I've been working really
hard on learning to manage myown negative emotions and my own
reactions.
But one of the things when wetalked about this because when
she raised that concern I tookit very seriously I want to hear
(17:00):
what's going on for you,because this is not how I want
our marriage to feel for you.
So we had a conversation aboutit and one of the things I
realized is that, if I let's usean example, this has actually
happened.
It's like Angeline, one of herjobs that we've agreed on in our
house, like I take out thegarbage, I do the dishes, she
(17:25):
folds, does the laundry, shedoes the laundry and she really
struggles to fold and put awaythe laundry.
And it's been an ongoingconversation we've had about how
can I help you?
What does this look?
You know like we're trying tofind a solution that that works.
And there was an evening acouple weeks ago where I was
putting our kids to bed and ourTodd, our four-year-old, was
being really difficult.
(17:46):
She kept getting out of bed,getting out of bed, so I just
sat outside her bedroom andevery time she'd open the door
I'd pick her up and I'd say, Ilove you.
It I'd open the door, I'd pickher up and I'd say, I love you,
it's bedtime, and I'd put herback in bed.
And I was just trying to win, onstrength of will, win that
battle.
And so I was sitting by herdoor and my wife came over and
picked up a hamper that was fullof clean laundry and said hey,
I'm going to go fold thislaundry.
I said, oh my gosh, thank youso much.
(18:06):
You're amazing.
And I gave her a kiss 25minutes.
I went into our bedroom and thelaundry was all over the room
and had not been folded or putaway.
And I went in the bathroom andshe was doing something else and
I expressed disappointment.
I was like she could see it onmy face.
I was disappointed and herimmediate response was to get
(18:30):
defensive.
She talked to her therapistabout it and her therapist
called it um, jade.
It's uh, let's see.
Jade is justify, um, justify,argue, defend and explain okay
so her, her inclination was tojustify, argue, defend and
(18:54):
explain why she hadn't foldedthe laundry.
Yet I was busy doing this, I hadto take care of this, and it
was unreasonable for me, becauseshe'd already done so much
folding and putting away thelaundry, it was unreasonable for
me to even be upset that thelaundry she said she was going
to fold and put away hadn't beendone and anything to avoid
taking responsibility and owningup to the fact that she'd done
(19:16):
it.
And so and I know, as we brokethis process down, in hindsight
we came to the realization that,like when she did the Jade
thing justify, defend, argue,explain, not in that order I
would I immediately felt like mydisappointment was invalid,
(19:36):
like, oh so my disappointment isI have no reason to be
disappointed.
Like, is it not okay for me tobe disappointed that you said
you were going to do this andthen you didn't do it?
And then I start to question myreality and then I think, no,
no, this is like a normal.
It's okay for me to bedisappointed that my partner
didn't follow through.
And so then I have to explainto her in very specific detail
(20:00):
why I am justified in beingdisappointed that the laundry
wasn't put away.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And then you're off to the races.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And then it's off to the races.
And so after having thisconversation, I said something
that would really help me.
I understand now why you feellike I'm always disappointed,
because if every time I feeldisappointed and I can't express
that emotion without being metwith defensiveness and and like
pushback by you, then I feellike I have to explain myself,
(20:28):
and that explaining myself makesyou feel like this is all I'm
thinking about.
My whole world is revolvingaround this and I'm like that's
not the case.
Like I just walked in and sawclothes everywhere and I was
like, oh man, I thought this wasgoing to be done.
And I walked in the bathroomand you hadn't done it.
And she's like well, what was Isupposed to say?
And I was like, well, it wouldhave been great if you would
(20:48):
have just said like, hey, canyou help me finish it right now?
And I'd have been like, okay,and it would have been done.
So that all that is to say like, as somebody who probably
already said, Nate here's.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Here's like a.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
This is like a just a fun tip for all of those out
here yeah, yeah, give us yourfun, relate, cause I would love
them.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
They're all relating and they're all like, oh my gosh
, just so been there, right yeah?
What if Angeline had said youknow what, nate?
I was just thinking.
The kids are in bed now and Ihate folding laundry.
So what if we took off all ofour clothes and finished folding
laundry together?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, that would've been interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good pivot.
And this is not to throw my wifeunder the bus, because, like in
all fairness I have definitelybeen expressing and this we
don't need to talk about mypersonal issues my, my third
things I'm working on in therapybut like I'm working on finding
um, I she is.
(21:49):
She is fair in her assessmentthat I've been more disappointed
lately and maybe more irritablelately now than I have been
previously in our relationship.
So her feelings are notunwarranted.
I don't want to say that she'scompletely making it up and
causing this problem for herself.
Yeah, she's definitely mappingme, but what I wanted to share,
I wanted to share this, like Iwant to take responsibility for
my piece in this as well, but Iwanted to share this as somebody
(22:12):
, as you can all tell, who lovesto talk.
I love to talk, I love toexpress myself and I can have a
tendency to dump on my partner,especially if I feel like I have
to defend my experience.
What is reality for me?
So if you find that you have apartner who, if you feel like
(22:35):
you're a perpetualdisappointment, or you feel like
your partner just dumps on you,yes, they have responsibility
to take for that and also getcurious about how your reaction
to their behavior.
Disappointment might be causingthem to have to have to go so
(22:57):
deep into every every time theyfeel disappointed yeah, yeah.
So I think the takeaway fromthat is or maybe this is a
uniquely Nate experience, Idon't know definitely not unique
.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I think people are listening going oh my gosh, like
Nate is saying what I feel allthe time, right, right and so
maybe my biggest, my biggesttakeaway and I think maybe
advice to that is be good at orlearn, commit to start
practicing ways in which you canaccept your partner's
(23:30):
disappointment without gettingjaded.
Yeah, Justifying argument,argumenting, argue.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Arguing Defending.
And explaining.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Or explaining right and so and maybe that's
something you say out loud yousay, hey, you know, sometimes
I'm disappointed, sometimesyou're disappointed in me.
That's just part of our natural, healthy relationship.
And so I'm disappointed,sometimes you're disappointed in
me.
That's just part of our natural, a healthy relationship.
And so I'm committing to you,I'm going to try right now, when
you express your disappointmentin me, I am going to try and
(24:05):
and and this is another episodewe can do that, I think, is
really important aboutboundaries but I'm going to try
to have my boundary up and I'mgoing to try to be porous enough
to take in your disappointmentand then be able to assess you
know, validate it.
Yeah, assess what of that is isvalid part of you.
(24:25):
Know what is actually happeningand yeah, and be able to say
you know what.
I love you and I don't want youto feel disappointed.
What can we do right now tohelp so this isn't a forever
practice?
Nate, like people are not goingto jump off this podcast and be
like, okay, I got it, this isgreat, I can go express
disappointment.
(24:45):
My partner's going to take it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
No, it's a lifelong practice.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes, and there's just little things that you can do
all the time, little skill setsthat you can be practicing.
Learning um and getting betterat that are going to help you
really, um, make yourrelationship.
And this is the passion part ofrelationships is being able to
do this, is being able to like.
This is another episode foranother time too.
(25:10):
I'm, like so excited We've gotendless episodes but don't sweat
the small stuff.
I hate that.
Definitely sweat the smallstuff.
Talk about it when it's small,before it becomes big.
Right, you want to talk about,you want to be able to have a
practice in your relationship,to be talking about the seeds
before they become weeds.
Yeah, and so you want to andyou want to.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You don't want to nitpick, right?
You're not trying to createlike a perfect world no.
But when you feel hurt ifyou're disappointed about
something you feel disappointed.
Try to get an understanding asto why.
What is it about this thingthat you felt if Valentine's Day
didn't work out for you?
What is it about Valentine's?
Is it because he didn't buy youflowers?
(25:51):
Is it because you guys didn'thave sex?
Like that might be the surfacelevel thing, but the thing
underneath it might be.
I just didn't feel prioritized.
I didn't feel like you thoughtthat I was important enough to
you, that you were willing tothink ahead about how to make
today special and that's thebeauty of that Nate, because I
actually think we can role playthat out really really well.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Because, if you can, before you go to your partner
and express your disappointment,if you can get down to the root
of that, like hey, you know,it's not really that you didn't
get me flowers, it's not reallythat we didn't have sex, it's
not really.
It's really that I didn't feelprioritized.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You want to feel like an afterthought.
Yeah, on a day that you knowit's very commercialized and I'm
not expecting you to go spend abunch of money and I don't need
a fancy dinner or whatever.
But I want to feel like yourValentine's.
I want to feel thought of onthat day, right, and then for
your partner, like I do, feellike this would be a really
great role play to be like oh mygosh, honey, I'm so sorry that
(26:54):
you didn't feel prioritized byme.
I never want you to feel thatway.
You are my priority.
Is there anything that I can dofor you right now, in this
moment, that would help you feelprioritized by me, because I
don't want you to feel that way.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And there's no explaining, there's not like oh
I tried to do this and I thoughtabout doing this and I just
didn't.
No, it's listening to theirpain, it's being able to address
it and say I don't want you tofeel that way.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Not even, yeah, address it and say that you
don't want them to feel that way, and I mean, the best thing you
can do is just repeat back tothem what they said to you, so
that they know that youunderstand what it meant for
them.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Like there is nothing more cathartic.
I will tell you, in my marriagethere's nothing more cathartic
than my wife looking at me whenI'm having a hard time and
saying, like I get it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I hear you.
Yeah, here let me repeat backfor you.
I felt that way too.
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
it's like here's what I hear you saying.
You felt this way when thishappened, and then I did this, I
said this, and this is this ishow it made you feel.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
And I understand how you would feel.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And that sounds like, yeah, that would really hurt me
too.
Yeah, that would really hurt metoo.
I understand why you're hurtingand it makes total sense.
It's like, oh, I'm not crazyfor being hurt, I'm not crazy
for feeling disappointed, I'mnot crazy, I'm not a complete
loony tune that this made meupset.
It's like, okay, thank you forvalidating me.
I don't even need you to fix itat that point, just you saying
(28:30):
like no, I get it.
That's a valid reason to beupset.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's like okay, good now we can move on, because
sometimes your partner, butknowing that your partner would
be willing to fix it to dosomething to fix.
It is the best.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's awesome in the world no, also just knowing your
partner is willing to say like,hey, your experience matters to
me.
Yes, like the fact that you'reupset, I want to understand what
caused that upset and and Iwant to do my best to get in
your shoes and be like if I wasin your shoes I would have felt
(29:03):
the same way.
Totally makes sense.
It's like, oh okay, somebodycares about me enough to just
get inside my brain andunderstand why this hurt.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And here's the cool thing about these skills Even if
you do these things badlybecause you will at the start,
like when you first start tryingto implement some of these
things, you probably will screwit up and not do it with a lot
of skill you you'll still getbetter results than if you don't
even try.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So let's summarize this episode in whoever's
listening out there who may havebeen disappointed by
Valentine's day or somethingthat happened over the weekend,
or just in general.
If you're, if you're feelingany type of disappointment in
your marriage, let's one committo talking about it, like get
(29:53):
the conversation going.
Do not stuff it down, do notact like it's not bothering you.
It's going to come out inpassive, aggressive ways.
It's going to create resentment.
It's going to make you look atyour partner in a different way
and, let's be honest, they willfeel it.
They will know that you'redisappointed.
So stop trying to hide it andjust let's confront our partner.
(30:16):
Okay, so number one, let's makethe commitment to have the
tough conversation.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Two let's contract right Before we, before we even
get there.
Let's, let's, uh, wait set someground rules.
Yeah, wait, why am I talking?
Remember who you're talking tothe person that you love and
that you live with.
Why am I talking?
Because I want our relationshipto be better and I want them to
understand me and I want tounderstand them.
(30:44):
And then we want to make acontract Like, hey, is this a
good time to chat?
I promise I'll be brief, I'mnot going to dump on you.
I promise I'll be brief, I'mnot going to dump on you.
I just I want to let you knowabout something that happened
this weekend or over Valentine'sday or whatever.
Just want to make you aware.
Okay, so that's the third.
We're at three now, right?
Number four in a concise andloving way, let them know what
(31:10):
really was hard for you or whatreally is causing you pain,
disappointment, despair, right?
So it's not.
It's not that I didn't getflowers, it's not that you
didn't take me out to a nicedinner.
It's I didn't feel prioritized.
If you can get down to like thefeeling, part of it, like your
experience, and I like I didn't,not you, you didn't prioritize
(31:33):
me, not like you're theauthority on it, but I didn't
feel prioritized, like Irealized.
You know that could just becoming from me.
You know, it might not evenhave been anything that you did.
It's just me telling myself thestory that you, that you
weren't prioritizing me thisthis.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
This is going to be play a lot into keeping it short
yeah if you can think ahead andwork out for yourself.
There's the thing that happened,and then there's the and then
there's what it meant for youand what it meant.
Where we often get hung up whenwe're having these
conversations is we get hung uparound the thing that happened.
It's like this thing happenedand if we don't, this is maybe
where I could improve personally.
(32:10):
Um, there's the thing thathappened, like the laundry
didn't get folded, and you canend up wasting all of your, your
social capital and all of yourenergy arguing about the laundry
, when the thing that you'rereally frustrated about is not
the laundry or the Valentine'sday or whatever.
The thing you're really upsetabout is.
I don't feel like I can trustyou, or I'm feeling a little bit
lonely.
(32:31):
I'm feeling you know, or I'm.
I need to.
I need to be able to count onyou, and you weren't there for
me when I needed you.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yes.
I made that mean I made up thatyou don't care, you know that
I'm working hard and puttinginto this relationship and
you're not really pulling yourweight.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, or I just uh.
I felt, I felt, I felt alone, Ifelt unimportant, I felt yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, so important that you can express that right.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
And then you know the listening role is.
It's important for the listenerto remember that, like you love
your partner, you don't wantyour partner to feel those
things, even if that's not whatyou intended, even that if, even
if that's not even really whathappened, you don't even have to
go into that.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Your role is not to be the good guy and explain why
you weren't the bad guy.
Your role is to just seekmutual understanding, empathize,
try and put yourself in yourpartner's shoes, if you can.
Just.
I used to call it like holdingthe emotional garbage.
Can have you heard this analogy?
Have I shared this with you?
(33:38):
Like when you're, when yourpartner's throwing up?
My wife had really roughpregnancies with lots of nausea,
and whenever she was throwingup there's nothing I could do
about it.
Like you can't stop it fromhappening.
The only thing I could do islike hold her hair back, rub her
(33:58):
shoulders, say that this reallysucks.
I'm so sorry.
And then maybe afterwards, likeget her some tea or you know
something to help her settle her, some toast, some crackers to
help her settle her tummy, andin that moment like the best
thing you can do is kind of justlike hold space for that moment
to happen.
And sometimes all your partnerneeds is for you to hold the
emotional garbage can and letthem get all their emotions out
(34:20):
and be like yeah, that makessense, I'm so sorry that
happened.
Oh, that's really.
That sounds really hard.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And once they get it all out,they're going to go oh, and once
they get it all out, they'regoing to go huh, yeah, yeah, and
it will make your relationshipstronger, like I promise, like
take my word for it you willhave a healthier, happier, more
(34:48):
intimate and more passionaterelationship if you can face
these things head on, together,as a team.
And it's not going to go rightevery single time.
Sometimes it's going toescalate into an argument, but
for the most part, if you justkind of follow these ground
rules, these conversations aregoing to go so much better.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and like I love the word intimacy that you used
.
There's something about likeyou can't have intimacy when
you're in, when you're armoredup, if you're wearing like a
plate mail, you know.
You're dressed up like a, likea, a soldier from King the times
of King Arthur, like, andyou're laying in bed together.
(35:24):
There's not going to be muchintimacy, it's just going to be
clanking and rusty, squeaking,and it's just not going to.
It's not going to.
If you want to be close withsomebody, you got to take that
armor off.
And the best way to do thatlike truly these moments where
you, your partner or yourpartner really needs somebody to
see them and hear them, likethese moments of conflict can be
(35:45):
the end of a relationship, theycan be really detrimental, but
they can also be the gateway tolearning.
Like, oh, when I was feelingmost upset, most hurt my partner
.
If you can give your partnerthat gift of being able to take
their armor off during thesehurtful conversations, when
(36:17):
they're most scared of beinghurt more.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
What a gift that.
That is truly the gateway tointimacy.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
That's really cool, cause you could be on either
side of the disappointment.
So if you're listening to thispodcast and you're like I'm
disappointed about something, Iwant you to go try to initiate
one of these conversations.
But if you are the partner thatyou're like, I know my
partner's upset.
I know they're disappointedabout Valentine's Day and I feel
rotten about it, but they'renot going to say anything about
(36:44):
it.
You could go to your partnerand say hey, listen, I feel like
you're upset, maybe aboutValentine's Day.
I would love to hear you out.
I would love if you could sharewith me your disappointment,
cause I would love to understandyou better and I I I want to
make it better.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, so whenever you engage in this conversation I
like the visual think about howcan I engage in this
conversation in a way thatdoesn't that doesn't make my
partner feel like they need tograb their sword and shield.
How can I do this in a way thathas them just sit on the couch
and just be honest?
That's, I think, a good mentalvisual.
(37:25):
I love it.
I love it.
Good episode, monica.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, I think this is great and I hope that you guys
will send us a note, send us aline on social media or over
email at monicatinacom, and letus know how these conversations
went for you.
If you feel like it went offthe rails and it just like
you're so sorry you did it, letus know Like we can talk more
(37:50):
about it.
We can definitely help youthrough it.
So go have these conversations,let us know how it went for you
and join us next week, becausethere's so much to talk about.
These things are so important.
I can't think of any better useof your time, of your energy,
of your financial investmentthan to really up level your
(38:12):
relationship, because there isnothing else in your life that
is a better measure of yourhappiness than the, than the
health of your relationship.
So these things are worth it.
So thanks, nate, for your timeand we'll see you guys next week
.
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, monica Tanner,with my co-host, nate Bagley,
and we are so excited to recordtoday.
It is the day after Valentine'sDay and we want to address a
topic because I have gotten aton of DMs.
I don't know about you, nate,but I don't check my DMs, so
(00:22):
Wives who had maybe a biggerexpectation for Valentine's Day,
or they were hoping forsomething, or maybe even they
asked for something and theyfeel like their spouse did not
come through for them and sothey're disappointed and trying
to figure out, like, how do Ibring it up?
Do I even bring it up?
Do I just swallow it down?
(00:42):
Like, how do I bring up thatuncomfortable topic of I'm
disappointed?
I wish this had happeneddifferently.
And how do we?
How do we get through that?
How do we bring that up in areally um, like an effective way
that our spouse won't shut downor just be like, oh, there's
(01:03):
such a nag or nothing I ever dois good enough.
I feel like this is a verytimely topic.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I agree.
I agree there's a lot ofresources and skills that you
can develop to help youaccomplish this.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Totally, totally, and I think you're like the king of
having the tough conversations,right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, I don't think that that's necessarily true.
I think in theory maybe, but inpractice it's a lot harder than
all of this stuff is harder inpractice than it is in theory.
Because, you're dealing withemotions and you're dealing with
people's histories and theiremotional triggers, and you're
(01:44):
dealing with people's historiesand their emotional triggers and
you're dealing with, likesomething as simple as their
tone of voice or the mood thatthey're in, or whether or not
they're feeling sick or healthy,or that there's so many things
that can make having hardconversations harder than if the
conditions were perfect.
The conditions are rarelyperfect, let's be honest.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I agree if the conditions were perfect and the
conditions are rarely perfect,let's be honest, I agree and I
think.
Just because I think, justbecause we have the skills or we
study the skills or we teachother people the skills, that
doesn't necessarily even meanwhen it's time for us to use the
skills that they are readilyavailable to us, there's always,
you know, something unexpectedor we feel triggered or we
really have to dig deep.
So you know, we struggle, justlike everybody else.
(02:27):
But yes, there are skills thatyou can tap into to be able to
have these conversationseffectively, even when you're
feeling really disappointed, andespecially when you're feeling
very disappointed.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, I think the and I think the work starts before
you enter the arena, expressingnegative emotions whether it's
anger, frustration,disappointment, betrayal there's
so many negative emotions thatcan come up in your relationship
(03:01):
and expressing those is alwaysgoing to go better If you have
made an honor agreements abouthow you're going to engage in
these conversations beforehand,you lay some ground rules.
If you don't have ground rules,it's really easy to play dirty,
because that's human nature.
Human nature is I want toprotect myself, I want to defend
(03:24):
myself against the threat.
And if you haven't madeexplicit agreements with your
partner about how you're goingto engage in these conversations
and make sure that you're beingrespectful and make sure that
you're honoring yourrelationship and being and that
you're not going to make thingsworse in an act of
self-preservation than youinevitably will Like, it's hard
(03:46):
enough to.
It's hard enough to fight cleanwithout or with the rules.
That if you don't have rules ofengagement beforehand, it makes
it almost impossible, I think,for two emotionally charged
people to have a productiveconversation and to walk away
feeling validated and understoodand with a with like a a good,
cogent plan to move forward.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So true.
So, before we get into thosekind of example of those rules,
cause I want you to give me someexamples and I'll give you some
examples of some of our rulesof engagement.
But like I think kind of thefirst rule is to be perfectly
honest with each other, becauseI don't think you're gaining
anything by not having theseconversations.
(04:28):
I think people often think like, oh, it's not a big deal, I'll
forget about it.
Or, like you know, like I justneed to push it down because I
don't want to bring it up,because, you know, I don't want
to seem like a nag or somethinglike that, and I think that is
really bad, misguided, whetherit's advice or just what you saw
growing up because your partnercan always tell, like, if
(04:50):
you're disappointed andsomething didn't go your way and
you're like no, I'm just notgoing to say anything, I'm just
going to it comes out sidewaysand your partner can tell that
something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So we're really good at math.
We are human beings, are reallygood at mapping each other's
emotions and thoughts, and youcan tell when somebody is not
being forthright with you.
You can tell when somebody istalking out of the side of their
mouth, especially when you livewith them.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So let's just agree that if you're feeling
disappointed about something,that the best course of action
is to have the conversation,even if you struggle through it.
We're going to give you somereally good tips and tools in
this episode, but let's justlike decide right now that we're
we're going to have theconversation, rather than try to
(05:39):
stuff it down or try to ignoreit.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I like what you said at the beginning, that we're
going to be honest, because Ithink when we think about being
honest, I like to define whatwords mean lately, because I
think it's really easy forsomebody to hear a word and what
they think of when they hearthat word is not the same thing
of what we mean when we say theword.
(06:01):
And I think that there's partsto honesty.
I think some people think, inthe spirit of honesty, that they
have the right to likeemotionally dump on their
partner, like they store up alltheir negative emotions and back
up the trailer and they're likehere's my honesty.
And because we're married,we're in a relationship, you
need to, you need to hear thisand you're not allowed to be
(06:23):
defensive or hurt or anything.
Just need to.
You need to.
Let me bury you in all of mycomplaints and frustrations and
anger and hurt and um, and ifyou don't take it, then you're a
bad partner and um, honestydoes not give you a blank check
to emotionally unload onsomebody.
Um, that's one.
So that's one technicality.
(06:43):
That.
So when we say be honest,that's not what we mean, that
you do have a free pass to saywhatever you want.
Um, the other thing abouthonesty that I want to say
before we dive into, like whatmaybe honesty actually looks
like, or a good, uh, honesty inits in its best form.
Um, the other thing that theingredient that I think we often
miss out on, is that, if youwant to have a marriage that is
(07:04):
filled with honesty, um, there'stwo parts of it.
One part is is telling the truthand being honest about your
experience and what happened,but the other part of it is
being able to, um, receive hardtruths, to hear things that
might not sit well with you andmight threaten your reality and
might feel, um, feel hurtful or,uh, you or you might be the
(07:27):
villain in somebody's story, andto not lose yourself.
If you punish your partner forbeing honest with you, they will
not be honest with you in thefuture.
So, if somebody comes to youand says I need to tell you
something, something that isaffecting me, that's weighing on
me, it's important to me, andyou lash out and punish them and
(07:52):
berate them or get defensiveand angry, they're going to
avoid those conversations moreand more, and then you're going
to be living in a marriagethat's full of dishonesty and
secrets, because you haven'tcreated a space where your
partner can be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so true, so true, so important.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So those are two things that I would watch out
for before we dive into talkingabout to having these
conversations.
One, be careful not toemotionally unload.
And then two, practice holdingonto yourself when bad, when
hard news comes your way.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, and actually what I think about when I think
about, like, preparing for aconversation that you want to
have with your spouse aboutbeing disappointed about
something, is the acronym WAIT.
Why am I talking?
So it's really important.
Like, are you talking to punishyour partner?
Are you talking to change yourpartner's behavior, or are you
(08:51):
talking to make yourrelationship better and stronger
?
And that is always.
I'm always going to tell you toask for what you want in an
honest and skillful way.
And so if you wait before divinginto the conversation without
thinking about it, I thinkestablish.
(09:13):
Why am I talking?
So that my partner willunderstand and know me better,
so that I can know andunderstand my partner better.
Because there might be a reasonwhy they didn't do anything for
you for Valentine's day, right.
And so if you show up with thatcuriosity, wanting to know your
partner better, because theremight be a reason why they
didn't do anything for you forValentine's Day, right.
And so if you show up with thatcuriosity, wanting to know your
partner better, wanting them tounderstand you better, that's
going to be better.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And remember that you're talking to somebody that
you love.
So let's, let's talk aboutthese rules to somebody that you
love.
So let's, let's talk aboutthese rules, cause I love this
idea.
Um, I think number one beforediving into a conversation,
attempting a conversation aboutmaybe being disappointed with
your partner about somethingyou're always going to want to
(09:58):
contract good, healthyrelationships, use contracting
well.
So you don't want to, like Natesaid in past episodes, you
don't want to catch him rightwhen he comes in from a very
busy day at work, or when she isstressed and trying to get
dinner on the table and hastoddlers hanging on her ankles.
You want to go to your partnerand say, hey, I would love to
(10:26):
talk to you for a few minutesabout, you know, valentine's day
, how that went.
Is now a good time, yeah, or isthere a better time?
So you always want to kind ofcontract with your partner to
make sure it's a good time tohave this conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah and and let's be honest, like this is the ideal.
There's just going to be timeswhere emotions boil over in the
heat of the moment and thingscome up and it feels like the
conversation, it's like a dam,breaks and you can't hold it
back anymore.
And so if you don't have theluxury of saying like, hey,
(11:01):
let's schedule a conversationfor later this evening, when the
house is quiet, and like that'sjust unrealistic, and you're
driving in the car and your kidshave headphones on and you're
just like both boiling, boilingover and seething Like, the most
important thing I can recommendis number one take some deep
breaths in the heat of themoment.
(11:22):
Number two remind your partnerthat you're on the same team,
that you love them, and you cantell that they're hurting, that
they're upset about somethingand you would like to hear them
out Anything that you can do todiffuse the criticism,
defensiveness spiral which isoften what these conversations
turn into here's why you'rewrong, here's why you're bad,
(11:44):
here's why you're bad, here'swhy you hurt me, here's why
you're the villain, here's whyI'm the hero, here's why?
Or the victim, here's why I'mright, here's why I'm good.
And anytime a conversationveers in that direction, it's
just it's unlikely to go welland the best way to avoid it is
to calm your physiology down.
And the best way to avoid it isto calm your physiology down,
(12:04):
like, keep your heart rate low,take some deep breaths and see
if you can acknowledge yourpartner's pain and let them know
that you can, you can be thereceptacle, like, you can hold
onto yourself, and that you can,you have, you have the capacity
to hear and receive their painwithout, without making it about
(12:26):
you.
If you can do that one littlething at the very beginning,
oftentimes the the high emotionthat your partner might have in
that moment will like simmerdown real quick and they'll be
like, oh okay, they're not goingto defend themselves here Like
we can we.
One of my favorite I know Iquote Dr Gottman a lot, john
(12:46):
Gottman, but one of my favoritequotes from him is he says I'm
going to paraphrase but it's thepurpose of conflict in a
relationship is not to resolvethe conflict, it's to create
mutual understanding and it'ssomething like 69% of conflict
is unresolvable, it's perpetualconflict.
It comes up, these conflictscome up again and again and
(13:07):
again and they don't ever goaway because they're based on
personality preferences orthey're based on, just like our
habits, our desires, just kindof like who we are as people.
And that's a lot.
That's a high percentage ofconflict, and if you try and
solve unsolvable problems,you're just going to pull your
hair out.
It's going to drive you bonkers.
So the best thing you can do isrealign, reset your goals and
(13:31):
just realize that sometimes,when your partner's hurting, all
they need is somebody to haveempathy and understand where
they're coming from, and it canbe one of the most challenging
things to do in a relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's true, it's true.
Okay, so best case scenariocontract.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
But if you can't make sure that you're taking some
breaths and kind of settingyourself, Holding on to yourself
, and if you can't do that, thenpolitely ask your partner if
you can talk about it later.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, uh, another thing that's really
, uh, you you pointed out,making certain that you're on
the right, that you're on thesame team, but also trying to be
making sure that you're concisebecause, like you said, it is,
you know, if you're constantlyor consistently dumping on your
(14:23):
partner, we call that unbridledself-expression.
So if you go to your partnerand you're like, hey, I'd love
to talk about blank, and they'rebracing themselves for like 45
minutes of like a tongue lashing, that's not going to go well.
So take a few minutes to tryand make your thoughts really
concise.
Now I teach a tool called thefeedback wheel where you can
(14:45):
talk about something that'supsetting you.
You get eight sentences max, sowe won't go into that on this
episode, but the more conciseyou can be, the better.
So you want your partner toknow that, like, if you need to
talk something out, that they'renot going to be sitting there,
they're not like stuck and justlistening to you dump on them
(15:07):
and, you know, reassure them.
Hey, this is going to be superquick.
I just I want to talk to youabout something that's really
bothering me and I think, once Iget it off my chest and we can
have a short conversation aboutit, I will feel so much better.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, as a person who I'm, a, I'm an, I'm an, a
dumper.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
That's a weird thing to say.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, I, I mean, I'm a verbal processor.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Um, yes, and so sometimes I'm like trying to
find my words and it takes awhile, and it's why therapy
having a good therapist or agood friend who's like an
advocate of your marriage and isa really good to kind of it's
good for me to sometimes go fora walk and talk things through
with them first and get anorganized my thoughts before I
talk to my partner.
But one thing that I havenoticed for those of you who
(15:54):
might feel like you have apartner who just can't shut up
about a problem and they justcomplain and complain and
complain and they're perpetuallydisappointed this is a
conversation we're having in ourmarriage right now.
Actually, we had this longconversation this week about
this very thing.
My wife expressed the she, she,she said she was having a rough
(16:16):
week, um, so she was feeling alittle bit emotionally beat down
and when, whenever that happens, it kind of skews your
perception a little bit.
But she mentioned that she feltlike I was, um, disappointed in
her more often than not, and soshe was walking around with
this experience of Nate'sdisappointed in me.
I just am a disappointment as awife, I just am not a good wife
and I'm like that is not theexperience that I want to give
(16:39):
my wife at all, like I don'twant her to feel like she's a
constant disappointment and solike I've been working really
hard on learning to manage myown negative emotions and my own
reactions.
But one of the things when wetalked about this because when
she raised that concern I tookit very seriously I want to hear
(17:00):
what's going on for you,because this is not how I want
our marriage to feel for you.
So we had a conversation aboutit and one of the things I
realized is that, if I let's usean example, this has actually
happened.
It's like Angeline, one of herjobs that we've agreed on in our
house, like I take out thegarbage, I do the dishes, she
(17:25):
folds, does the laundry, shedoes the laundry and she really
struggles to fold and put awaythe laundry.
And it's been an ongoingconversation we've had about how
can I help you?
What does this look?
You know like we're trying tofind a solution that that works.
And there was an evening acouple weeks ago where I was
putting our kids to bed and ourTodd, our four-year-old, was
being really difficult.
(17:46):
She kept getting out of bed,getting out of bed, so I just
sat outside her bedroom andevery time she'd open the door
I'd pick her up and I'd say, Ilove you.
It I'd open the door, I'd pickher up and I'd say, I love you,
it's bedtime, and I'd put herback in bed.
And I was just trying to win, onstrength of will, win that
battle.
And so I was sitting by herdoor and my wife came over and
picked up a hamper that was fullof clean laundry and said hey,
I'm going to go fold thislaundry.
I said, oh my gosh, thank youso much.
(18:06):
You're amazing.
And I gave her a kiss 25minutes.
I went into our bedroom and thelaundry was all over the room
and had not been folded or putaway.
And I went in the bathroom andshe was doing something else and
I expressed disappointment.
I was like she could see it onmy face.
I was disappointed and herimmediate response was to get
(18:30):
defensive.
She talked to her therapistabout it and her therapist
called it um, jade.
It's uh, let's see.
Jade is justify, um, justify,argue, defend and explain okay
so her, her inclination was tojustify, argue, defend and
(18:54):
explain why she hadn't foldedthe laundry.
Yet I was busy doing this, I hadto take care of this, and it
was unreasonable for me, becauseshe'd already done so much
folding and putting away thelaundry, it was unreasonable for
me to even be upset that thelaundry she said she was going
to fold and put away hadn't beendone and anything to avoid
taking responsibility and owningup to the fact that she'd done
(19:16):
it.
And so and I know, as we brokethis process down, in hindsight
we came to the realization that,like when she did the Jade
thing justify, defend, argue,explain, not in that order I
would I immediately felt like mydisappointment was invalid,
(19:36):
like, oh so my disappointment isI have no reason to be
disappointed.
Like, is it not okay for me tobe disappointed that you said
you were going to do this andthen you didn't do it?
And then I start to question myreality and then I think, no,
no, this is like a normal.
It's okay for me to bedisappointed that my partner
didn't follow through.
And so then I have to explainto her in very specific detail
(20:00):
why I am justified in beingdisappointed that the laundry
wasn't put away.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
And then you're off to the races.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And then it's off to the races.
And so after having thisconversation, I said something
that would really help me.
I understand now why you feellike I'm always disappointed,
because if every time I feeldisappointed and I can't express
that emotion without being metwith defensiveness and and like
pushback by you, then I feellike I have to explain myself,
(20:28):
and that explaining myself makesyou feel like this is all I'm
thinking about.
My whole world is revolvingaround this and I'm like that's
not the case.
Like I just walked in and sawclothes everywhere and I was
like, oh man, I thought this wasgoing to be done.
And I walked in the bathroomand you hadn't done it.
And she's like well, what was Isupposed to say?
And I was like, well, it wouldhave been great if you would
(20:48):
have just said like, hey, canyou help me finish it right now?
And I'd have been like, okay,and it would have been done.
So that all that is to say like, as somebody who probably
already said, Nate here's.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Here's like a.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
This is like a just a fun tip for all of those out
here yeah, yeah, give us yourfun, relate, cause I would love
them.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
They're all relating and they're all like, oh my gosh
, just so been there, right yeah?
What if Angeline had said youknow what, nate?
I was just thinking.
The kids are in bed now and Ihate folding laundry.
So what if we took off all ofour clothes and finished folding
laundry together?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, that would've been interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good pivot.
And this is not to throw my wifeunder the bus, because, like in
all fairness I have definitelybeen expressing and this we
don't need to talk about mypersonal issues my, my third
things I'm working on in therapybut like I'm working on finding
um, I she is.
(21:49):
She is fair in her assessmentthat I've been more disappointed
lately and maybe more irritablelately now than I have been
previously in our relationship.
So her feelings are notunwarranted.
I don't want to say that she'scompletely making it up and
causing this problem for herself.
Yeah, she's definitely mappingme, but what I wanted to share,
I wanted to share this, like Iwant to take responsibility for
my piece in this as well, but Iwanted to share this as somebody
(22:12):
, as you can all tell, who lovesto talk.
I love to talk, I love toexpress myself and I can have a
tendency to dump on my partner,especially if I feel like I have
to defend my experience.
What is reality for me?
So if you find that you have apartner who, if you feel like
(22:35):
you're a perpetualdisappointment, or you feel like
your partner just dumps on you,yes, they have responsibility
to take for that and also getcurious about how your reaction
to their behavior.
Disappointment might be causingthem to have to have to go so
(22:57):
deep into every every time theyfeel disappointed yeah, yeah.
So I think the takeaway fromthat is or maybe this is a
uniquely Nate experience, Idon't know definitely not unique
.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I think people are listening going oh my gosh, like
Nate is saying what I feel allthe time, right, right and so
maybe my biggest, my biggesttakeaway and I think maybe
advice to that is be good at orlearn, commit to start
practicing ways in which you canaccept your partner's
(23:30):
disappointment without gettingjaded.
Yeah, Justifying argument,argumenting, argue.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Arguing Defending.
And explaining.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Or explaining right and so and maybe that's
something you say out loud yousay, hey, you know, sometimes
I'm disappointed, sometimesyou're disappointed in me.
That's just part of our natural, healthy relationship.
And so I'm disappointed,sometimes you're disappointed in
me.
That's just part of our natural, a healthy relationship.
And so I'm committing to you,I'm going to try right now, when
you express your disappointmentin me, I am going to try and
(24:05):
and and this is another episodewe can do that, I think, is
really important aboutboundaries but I'm going to try
to have my boundary up and I'mgoing to try to be porous enough
to take in your disappointmentand then be able to assess you
know, validate it.
Yeah, assess what of that is isvalid part of you.
(24:25):
Know what is actually happeningand yeah, and be able to say
you know what.
I love you and I don't want youto feel disappointed.
What can we do right now tohelp so this isn't a forever
practice?
Nate, like people are not goingto jump off this podcast and be
like, okay, I got it, this isgreat, I can go express
disappointment.
(24:45):
My partner's going to take it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
No, it's a lifelong practice.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yes, and there's just little things that you can do
all the time, little skill setsthat you can be practicing.
Learning um and getting betterat that are going to help you
really, um, make yourrelationship.
And this is the passion part ofrelationships is being able to
do this, is being able to like.
This is another episode foranother time too.
(25:10):
I'm, like so excited We've gotendless episodes but don't sweat
the small stuff.
I hate that.
Definitely sweat the smallstuff.
Talk about it when it's small,before it becomes big.
Right, you want to talk about,you want to be able to have a
practice in your relationship,to be talking about the seeds
before they become weeds.
Yeah, and so you want to andyou want to.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You don't want to nitpick, right?
You're not trying to createlike a perfect world no.
But when you feel hurt ifyou're disappointed about
something you feel disappointed.
Try to get an understanding asto why.
What is it about this thingthat you felt if Valentine's Day
didn't work out for you?
What is it about Valentine's?
Is it because he didn't buy youflowers?
(25:51):
Is it because you guys didn'thave sex?
Like that might be the surfacelevel thing, but the thing
underneath it might be.
I just didn't feel prioritized.
I didn't feel like you thoughtthat I was important enough to
you, that you were willing tothink ahead about how to make
today special and that's thebeauty of that Nate, because I
actually think we can role playthat out really really well.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Because, if you can, before you go to your partner
and express your disappointment,if you can get down to the root
of that, like hey, you know,it's not really that you didn't
get me flowers, it's not reallythat we didn't have sex, it's
not really.
It's really that I didn't feelprioritized.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You want to feel like an afterthought.
Yeah, on a day that you knowit's very commercialized and I'm
not expecting you to go spend abunch of money and I don't need
a fancy dinner or whatever.
But I want to feel like yourValentine's.
I want to feel thought of onthat day, right, and then for
your partner, like I do, feellike this would be a really
great role play to be like oh mygosh, honey, I'm so sorry that
(26:54):
you didn't feel prioritized byme.
I never want you to feel thatway.
You are my priority.
Is there anything that I can dofor you right now, in this
moment, that would help you feelprioritized by me, because I
don't want you to feel that way.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And there's no explaining, there's not like oh
I tried to do this and I thoughtabout doing this and I just
didn't.
No, it's listening to theirpain, it's being able to address
it and say I don't want you tofeel that way.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Not even, yeah, address it and say that you
don't want them to feel that way, and I mean, the best thing you
can do is just repeat back tothem what they said to you, so
that they know that youunderstand what it meant for
them.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Like there is nothing more cathartic.
I will tell you, in my marriagethere's nothing more cathartic
than my wife looking at me whenI'm having a hard time and
saying, like I get it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I hear you.
Yeah, here let me repeat backfor you.
I felt that way too.
Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
it's like here's what I hear you saying.
You felt this way when thishappened, and then I did this, I
said this, and this is this ishow it made you feel.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
And I understand how you would feel.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And that sounds like, yeah, that would really hurt me
too.
Yeah, that would really hurt metoo.
I understand why you're hurtingand it makes total sense.
It's like, oh, I'm not crazyfor being hurt, I'm not crazy
for feeling disappointed, I'mnot crazy, I'm not a complete
loony tune that this made meupset.
It's like, okay, thank you forvalidating me.
I don't even need you to fix itat that point, just you saying
(28:30):
like no, I get it.
That's a valid reason to beupset.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It's like okay, good now we can move on, because
sometimes your partner, butknowing that your partner would
be willing to fix it to dosomething to fix.
It is the best.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's awesome in the world no, also just knowing your
partner is willing to say like,hey, your experience matters to
me.
Yes, like the fact that you'reupset, I want to understand what
caused that upset and and Iwant to do my best to get in
your shoes and be like if I wasin your shoes I would have felt
(29:03):
the same way.
Totally makes sense.
It's like, oh okay, somebodycares about me enough to just
get inside my brain andunderstand why this hurt.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And here's the cool thing about these skills Even if
you do these things badlybecause you will at the start,
like when you first start tryingto implement some of these
things, you probably will screwit up and not do it with a lot
of skill you you'll still getbetter results than if you don't
even try.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So let's summarize this episode in whoever's
listening out there who may havebeen disappointed by
Valentine's day or somethingthat happened over the weekend,
or just in general.
If you're, if you're feelingany type of disappointment in
your marriage, let's one committo talking about it, like get
(29:53):
the conversation going.
Do not stuff it down, do notact like it's not bothering you.
It's going to come out inpassive, aggressive ways.
It's going to create resentment.
It's going to make you look atyour partner in a different way
and, let's be honest, they willfeel it.
They will know that you'redisappointed.
So stop trying to hide it andjust let's confront our partner.
(30:16):
Okay, so number one, let's makethe commitment to have the
tough conversation.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Two let's contract right Before we, before we even
get there.
Let's, let's, uh, wait set someground rules.
Yeah, wait, why am I talking?
Remember who you're talking tothe person that you love and
that you live with.
Why am I talking?
Because I want our relationshipto be better and I want them to
understand me and I want tounderstand them.
(30:44):
And then we want to make acontract Like, hey, is this a
good time to chat?
I promise I'll be brief, I'mnot going to dump on you.
I promise I'll be brief, I'mnot going to dump on you.
I just I want to let you knowabout something that happened
this weekend or over Valentine'sday or whatever.
Just want to make you aware.
Okay, so that's the third.
We're at three now, right?
Number four in a concise andloving way, let them know what
(31:10):
really was hard for you or whatreally is causing you pain,
disappointment, despair, right?
So it's not.
It's not that I didn't getflowers, it's not that you
didn't take me out to a nicedinner.
It's I didn't feel prioritized.
If you can get down to like thefeeling, part of it, like your
experience, and I like I didn't,not you, you didn't prioritize
(31:33):
me, not like you're theauthority on it, but I didn't
feel prioritized, like Irealized.
You know that could just becoming from me.
You know, it might not evenhave been anything that you did.
It's just me telling myself thestory that you, that you
weren't prioritizing me thisthis.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
This is going to be play a lot into keeping it short
yeah if you can think ahead andwork out for yourself.
There's the thing that happened,and then there's the and then
there's what it meant for youand what it meant.
Where we often get hung up whenwe're having these
conversations is we get hung uparound the thing that happened.
It's like this thing happenedand if we don't, this is maybe
where I could improve personally.
(32:10):
Um, there's the thing thathappened, like the laundry
didn't get folded, and you canend up wasting all of your, your
social capital and all of yourenergy arguing about the laundry
, when the thing that you'rereally frustrated about is not
the laundry or the Valentine'sday or whatever.
The thing you're really upsetabout is.
I don't feel like I can trustyou, or I'm feeling a little bit
lonely.
(32:31):
I'm feeling you know, or I'm.
I need to.
I need to be able to count onyou, and you weren't there for
me when I needed you.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yes.
I made that mean I made up thatyou don't care, you know that
I'm working hard and puttinginto this relationship and
you're not really pulling yourweight.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, or I just uh.
I felt, I felt, I felt alone, Ifelt unimportant, I felt yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, so important that you can express that right.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
And then you know the listening role is.
It's important for the listenerto remember that, like you love
your partner, you don't wantyour partner to feel those
things, even if that's not whatyou intended, even that if, even
if that's not even really whathappened, you don't even have to
go into that.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Your role is not to be the good guy and explain why
you weren't the bad guy.
Your role is to just seekmutual understanding, empathize,
try and put yourself in yourpartner's shoes, if you can.
Just.
I used to call it like holdingthe emotional garbage.
Can have you heard this analogy?
Have I shared this with you?
(33:38):
Like when you're, when yourpartner's throwing up?
My wife had really roughpregnancies with lots of nausea,
and whenever she was throwingup there's nothing I could do
about it.
Like you can't stop it fromhappening.
The only thing I could do islike hold her hair back, rub her
(33:58):
shoulders, say that this reallysucks.
I'm so sorry.
And then maybe afterwards, likeget her some tea or you know
something to help her settle her, some toast, some crackers to
help her settle her tummy, andin that moment like the best
thing you can do is kind of justlike hold space for that moment
to happen.
And sometimes all your partnerneeds is for you to hold the
emotional garbage can and letthem get all their emotions out
(34:20):
and be like yeah, that makessense, I'm so sorry that
happened.
Oh, that's really.
That sounds really hard.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And once they get it all out,they're going to go oh, and once
they get it all out, they'regoing to go huh, yeah, yeah, and
it will make your relationshipstronger, like I promise, like
take my word for it you willhave a healthier, happier, more
(34:48):
intimate and more passionaterelationship if you can face
these things head on, together,as a team.
And it's not going to go rightevery single time.
Sometimes it's going toescalate into an argument, but
for the most part, if you justkind of follow these ground
rules, these conversations aregoing to go so much better.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and like I love the word intimacy that you used
.
There's something about likeyou can't have intimacy when
you're in, when you're armoredup, if you're wearing like a
plate mail, you know.
You're dressed up like a, likea, a soldier from King the times
of King Arthur, like, andyou're laying in bed together.
(35:24):
There's not going to be muchintimacy, it's just going to be
clanking and rusty, squeaking,and it's just not going to.
It's not going to.
If you want to be close withsomebody, you got to take that
armor off.
And the best way to do thatlike truly these moments where
you, your partner or yourpartner really needs somebody to
see them and hear them, likethese moments of conflict can be
(35:45):
the end of a relationship, theycan be really detrimental, but
they can also be the gateway tolearning.
Like, oh, when I was feelingmost upset, most hurt my partner
.
If you can give your partnerthat gift of being able to take
their armor off during thesehurtful conversations, when
(36:17):
they're most scared of beinghurt more.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
What a gift that.
That is truly the gateway tointimacy.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
That's really cool, cause you could be on either
side of the disappointment.
So if you're listening to thispodcast and you're like I'm
disappointed about something, Iwant you to go try to initiate
one of these conversations.
But if you are the partner thatyou're like, I know my
partner's upset.
I know they're disappointedabout Valentine's Day and I feel
rotten about it, but they'renot going to say anything about
(36:44):
it.
You could go to your partnerand say hey, listen, I feel like
you're upset, maybe aboutValentine's Day.
I would love to hear you out.
I would love if you could sharewith me your disappointment,
cause I would love to understandyou better and I I I want to
make it better.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, so whenever you engage in this conversation I
like the visual think about howcan I engage in this
conversation in a way thatdoesn't that doesn't make my
partner feel like they need tograb their sword and shield.
How can I do this in a way thathas them just sit on the couch
and just be honest?
That's, I think, a good mentalvisual.
(37:25):
I love it.
I love it.
Good episode, monica.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, I think this is great and I hope that you guys
will send us a note, send us aline on social media or over
email at monicatinacom, and letus know how these conversations
went for you.
If you feel like it went offthe rails and it just like
you're so sorry you did it, letus know Like we can talk more
(37:50):
about it.
We can definitely help youthrough it.
So go have these conversations,let us know how it went for you
and join us next week, becausethere's so much to talk about.
These things are so important.
I can't think of any better useof your time, of your energy,
of your financial investmentthan to really up level your
(38:12):
relationship, because there isnothing else in your life that
is a better measure of yourhappiness than the, than the
health of your relationship.
So these things are worth it.
So thanks, nate, for your timeand we'll see you guys next week
.
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