May 27, 2025 • 46 mins
Dr. Nicole Villegas, occupational therapist and founder of the Sensory Conscious Institute, explores how understanding nervous systems and sensory patterns helps build relationships rooted in safety, connection, and clarity.
• Beyond the five senses: interoception (internal feelings), vestibular (movement through space), and proprioception (body position awareness)
• Creating collaborative solutions versus compromises for different sensory preferences
• Using the Three C's: curiosity, compassion and consent in communication
• How unaddressed sensory needs lead to seemingly disproportionate reactions later
• The AHA method for regulation: Acknowledge, Honor, and take Action toward safety
• Signs your nervous system is dysregulated: racing heart, difficulty focusing, feeling "buzzy"
• Walking and talking as an effective strategy for difficult conversations
• Recognizing when your partner is overwhelmed through body language cues
• Using "I noticed..." statements instead of judgment when discussing sensory responses
• Learning to appreciate how sensory awareness creates opportunities for deeper connection
Visit drnicoleotd on Instagram or sensoryconcious.com to learn more about sensory practices and sign up for Dr. Nicole's newsletter "Refine" for small changes that make big differences.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, monica Tanner,and I'm really really excited
about our guest today.
She is Dr Nicole Villegas OTD,a doctor of occupational therapy
and the founder of the SensoryConscious Institute.
She helps individuals and teamstune into their nervous systems
(00:22):
and sensory patterns so theycan build relationships rooted
in safety, connection andclarity, both at home and in
their leadership.
Nicole teaches at BostonUniversity and has been featured
in BBC, ap News, tedx, real,simple and more.
Welcome to the podcast, nicole.
I am so excited for ourconversation today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, is there.
Before we get started, is thereanything else you would like
the listeners to know about?
Specifically, talk about whatit means to be sensory conscious
.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm happy to you know we're going to talk a lot today
about the senses and thenervous system and I was
thinking about listeners to youramazing podcast and what I
could bring so that you can allreally make the most of this
time and about being a sensoryconscious partner, and that
means understanding each otherand understanding each other in
(01:18):
a way that's beyond what you'rethinking and what you assume
about each other.
So tuning into your nervoussystem, thinking about your
partner, how they experience theworld, how you experience the
world, and how that in fact doesimpact how you show up together
.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yes, I love that so much, so okay.
So when we're talking about thesenses, obviously we're talking
about five senses.
There's more.
Oh yeah, Well let's, let's hearit.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Cause there's more.
So we have our five senses thatyou often think about, plus one
of my favorite is interoception, and that is the sense of your
feelings inside your body.
So we're going to get real heretoday.
I'm just going to say thatsense that you have to go to the
bathroom, the sense you gotgrumbly in your tummy or you're
(02:06):
super excited to go on a datewith your spouse yeah, that's
like the butterflies.
Butterflies, exactly, exactly,or they just do something
amazing and it takes your breathaway.
That's interoception workingright there.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, so would that be like a sixth sense or just
one there's more.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So let's talk your vestibularsystem, that is your sense of
moving through space.
So forward motion, up and downmotion, that means, oh, I just,
I can't help but think about themoment in the rom-coms where
people come together and there'sthat big lift off and the kiss,
(02:49):
yeah, yeah, that one.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The vestibular system is working, or when you first
started talking about that, Iwas like like when I'm really
clumsy and my husband laughs atme because I like trip over my
own feet, yes, yes, exactly, andthat's your proprioception,
your sense of where you are inspace.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So if you find yourself, you know, tripping
over your feet or hitting thecounter or the table with your
hip and you don't, you're likethat table has been there for 15
years.
Why did I just run into it forthe 50th time this week?
Yeah, yeah, that's your sensetoo.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That is so funny.
Okay, I love this.
So let's talk about.
I'm sure we'll talk aboutdifferent senses as we go but
what does it mean to be asensory conscious partner or
spouse?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know, that really means understanding each other
on this nervous system level, tounderstand that our bodies are
constantly scanning for safetyand threat in our environment,
and it's about recognizing thata person's tone of voice, sound
(03:57):
around them, the texture in yourspace that you're spending time
together, or even pace of yourenvironment can create comfort
and it can also create overwhelm, and we're all experiencing
this in our own distinct way.
So when we're sensory conscious, we're not just thinking about
what our partner says or whatthey do, but we're also tuning
(04:18):
into their body and theenvironment and thinking about
how they might respond to theenvironment.
And meeting each other withcuriosity as you explore what
might be going on in yournervous system, rather than
reactivity or just jumping toconclusions.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, Okay, so that is like so important.
But let's talk about like howdo sensory preferences show up
in daily life?
So like I'm thinking about likeI like it really hot and my
husband like comes in and islike, oh my gosh, it's like a
(04:58):
freaking sauna in here, Right,and then like immediately turns
the air down, or you know likethose types of things, like
preferences, like yes, that is a, that is a perfect example.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And that moment between his noticing that it
doesn't fit his preference, butit does fit your preference,
that's the moment forcommunication and connection.
Yes, right, not only jumping to, oh, I'm going to shift this
environment because it fits forme, but to look over and think,
oh well, this really works forMonica.
(05:29):
I wonder if this is soothingfor you right now?
Or what need is it meeting foryou?
And so that's that moment ofbeing a sensory conscious spouse
, thinking okay, I'mexperiencing one thing, my
spouse is experiencing another.
How can we talk about this andcreate a space where it feels
safe and comfortable for both ofus?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Right.
And yeah, it's so amazingbecause, like in my 23 years of
marriage, I have so manyexamples.
For example, I like all theblinds up, like open, so that I
get like sunlight.
I like natural light, right andnot the fluorescent lighting,
and I'm home all day long.
I like natural light right andnot the fluorescent lighting,
and I'm home all day long whenit's sunny outside, Right, and
so I have all the blinds openand my husband will come in and
(06:13):
like immediately, doesn't evenrealize it is like closing all
of the blinds because to himhe's like we're wasting energy,
Like the you know the sunshinecoming in is heating up the
house, and like making the airconditioning work harder and
like all of these things.
And so, yeah, living withanother human, not to mention
all of our children and theirpreferences.
(06:33):
But you know, for 23 years,yeah, you can either just ignore
each other's preferences andlike move through life, just you
know, according to your ownpreferences, or you can
communicate just you know,according to your own
preferences, or you cancommunicate about you know what
your preferences are and come upwith I like to say
collaborative solutions, notcompromises.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yes, collaborative solution that's such a beautiful
way to put that, you know.
I think about a collaborativesolution to sound at home, right
?
So if one person is really intowatching their show or video
game or whatever else it mightbe, that's on in the background,
while the other really reallycan't stand that sound.
(07:18):
Yeah, you know, that's just theeruption starting.
It's a slow eruption of oh no,what am I going to do?
The reactivity would say, hey,turn that down.
Or really going right intodeclarative statements of you
need to do this and we should.
All that stuff that's not goingto be supportive for connection
(07:40):
and safety and communication inthe relationship, for
connection and safety andcommunication in the
relationship.
So, yes, that that collaborativesolution for being in the same
physical space and both gettingyour needs met not only helps
you in that moment but it helpsyou after the fact.
So say you were having this,this difference in preferences
around sound it was pretty loudin the house.
(08:02):
The other person needs it quiet.
If that person who needs itquiet ignores their need, you
know, suppresses it down, justas oh, I'm going to push through
this and then later you get todinner and that person who
suppressed their needs didn't,didn't, communicate what they
needed.
They were dysregulated duringthat time.
(08:22):
You get to dinner and, oh,someone might say they have a
short fuse.
Yeah, no, something doesn't goright.
The toast burns and it becomesa bigger emotional reaction or
response to that moment andyou're like wait, why are you so
mad?
The toast burned.
Well, it turns out that threehours ago their dysregulation
(08:44):
started and they didn't cometogether to address it.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
This is so awesome because, you know, I just wrote
this book called Bad MarriageAdvice and there's so many
topics that I hit in the bookthat this is like really, I mean
like, don't sweat the smallstuff, like, oh, I'll be the
bigger partner and I'll justignore the fact that the TV is
so loud I can't even concentrateon what I'm doing or you know,
(09:08):
whatever it is, that's like notsweating the small stuff, but
that small stuff becomes bigstuff and it comes out sideways,
right.
Like then you explode oversomething and your partner's
like what on earth just happened?
Like, and I'm like I've beensitting here listening to the TV
and I have a headache and youknow your partner has no idea,
(09:28):
unless you actually sweat thesmall stuff and communicated
with them, right.
But also this idea ofcompromise, like right, if you
know, if you like it really coldin the house and I like it
really hot in the house, and wecompromise on where both of us
are completely uncomfortable.
You know, it's like there's somany just points that that hits
(09:50):
on, which brings me to my nextquestion.
Because what, what I find is ifyou don't have really good
communication about this and youdon't have the skills to kind
of work out solutions that workfor both of you.
So, like on the sound, there'snumber numberless ways to figure
all of this out.
But like on the sound, likemaybe if my husband's deaf in
(10:13):
one ear and so when he'swatching TV it's really loud,
and he watches TV downstairs,but if I'm trying to go to sleep
it comes through the like, Ican hear everything that he's
watching.
So if he's watching TV, thelike, I can hear everything that
he's watching.
So if he's watching TV late atnight, he'll watch something
that he doesn't necessarily needthe sound to understand, like
sports, or something that he canfigure out what's going on
(10:34):
without the sound, or he'll turnon the subtitles, or he'll
listen to something with hisheadphones.
Right, there's like so manyways to collaboratively figure
that out.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yes, yeah.
And that's a such a beautifulexample because you are thinking
about each other.
In those moments, you're bothgetting your needs met, without
that compromise where you'reboth feeling icky about it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, and there are so many solutions.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So it can be fun to come together and I recommend
that people come together and gothrough these things right
Again with curiosity and withcompassion.
Those are two of the three C'sof self-care I love to teach.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh, let's start talking about those, because I
think that's really important.
Curiosity is so important,something I talk about all the
time, like why is this importantto me and why is it important
to them?
Right, and so you can figureout how to create the solution
when you use curiosity andcreativity, right?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yes, yes and compassion.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I love that.
That's a great C.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
When we bring compassion to that conversation,
it means that judgment can canhold off a little bit.
It can.
It can take a seat.
It doesn't need to enter theroom and if it does, you bring
up compassion again to say, oh,maybe that was a little judgy.
Also, it turns out that mypreference isn't good or bad, it
just is.
And your preference isn't goodor bad, it it just is good or
(12:02):
bad, right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
They have no place in this, in these conversations.
Right, Because it's just yourpreference and my preference.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, yes.
And one of the most importantC's from my perspective is
consent.
Okay, and we often talk aboutthat word in certain spaces, but
don't bring it to everydayconversation.
But for me and for this,consent means are you saying yes
in this moment?
(12:30):
Are you saying no in thismoment?
It's also okay to say I don'tknow.
I don't know if I'm wanting tohave this conversation, but when
you ask yourself, okay, am Isaying yes to having this
conversation with my spouseabout our senses, and you do say
yes, that signals to yournervous system some safety.
(12:51):
So you're already preparingyourself for the compassion and
the curiosity to be easier,because it's telling your
nervous system oh hey, you saidyes to this.
This is an okay thing.
We're choosing to do this, andthat empowered yes gets you so
much closer.
It makes you so much closertogether from the get-go when
you start the conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yes, I love that.
I love that and an example ofcuriosity.
So this is like just I'mthinking about when my husband
and I first were having kids,and we had little little kids,
and he would take me on vacationand the like, for the first 24
hours of any vacation, no matterwhere we went, I I needed to
(13:34):
like sleep a little bit, like inorder to like catch up so that
I could have an enjoyable timedoing whatever we were doing.
So it didn't matter if we wentto like this beautiful paradise
like I couldn't go out and siton the beach or like do anything
until I caught up on a littlebit of sleep.
And my husband, who wasn'tnecessarily like sleepy, tired,
(13:54):
he wanted to watch TV, like nomatter where we were, we could
be in like Island paradise, andhe's like I just he would just
need it to kind of likedecompress and like watch TV,
and we're in this little tinyspace together, right, and it's
hard for me to sleep if he'swatching TV, and so that's where
we first.
So this is this curiosity piece, right, like we just came to,
(14:16):
you know, hawaii, where there'sso much to see and do, and like
tell me how you're feeling andwhat do you need right now?
And I would be like I just needto sleep, for, like, give me
like 24 hours or 12 hours tojust sleep, and then I'm good to
go.
And my husband's like well, youknow, I don't want to go
(14:37):
somewhere without you, but Idon't think I can sleep right
now.
And so that's when he startedwatching TV with the sound off,
like he would just catch us upon the sports highlights or
whatever it is that he can turnthe subtitles on if he wants to
watch something.
But he would just sit in thehotel room and he would watch
show while I, with the, with nosound, while I slept.
(14:58):
And then we could wake up andlike both of us were like we got
, we were so filled now and wecan go do something fun, right.
But it took some curiosity,compassion, consent and
creativity for us to like comeup with that.
Otherwise it would just be likeI just brought you to Hawaii,
why are you sleeping, right?
(15:19):
Or like vice versa, like we'reoff on vacation together, you're
watching a show.
It takes some compassion andsome real curiosity about what
is needful for both partners.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yes, oh, that was such a beautiful example.
To think now that that's whereit started.
And when it comes to late nightTV watching, you've created a
solution for that.
So, over time, how that'sevolved in your relationship,
and just to reflect it startedwith you to identifying what you
(15:53):
needed in that moment andthere's no doubt that what you
needed whether it's the nap orI'm going to frame it as some
visual stimulation through theTV right A moment to get his
head out of the currentenvironment, right To kind of
escape for a minute beforecoming back.
Um, that that's also based onyour nervous system and the
(16:15):
needs of your nervous system inthe moment.
Totally and the other part ofthat recognize that in yourself
means you can communicate it.
Then you can show up togetherand come up with those solutions
.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Communication is so important.
The other part of that that Iforgot is the reason why he
loved catching up on sports whenwe would travel is because we
didn't pay for cable at home,and so he is a big, huge sports
guy, right.
So we would go to a hotel andhe'd be like sweet, flipping
through the sports channels,right.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
What a treat.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, and he didn't have to listen to them, but to
see you know what was going onand be able to catch up on the
highlights was like his favoritething in the whole wide world.
So now I'm getting what I need,he's getting what he needs and
now we can just enjoy each otherRight.
So it's like so important.
But this is going to be myfavorite topic of of this
(17:07):
interview.
I'm just certain of it.
But like when?
So I feel like when we're notgetting our sensory needs met,
but sometimes it's likeperiphery, like we don't really
realize that we'reoverstimulated, and then we snap
at our partner or we're justreally edgy or, um, yeah, like
(17:29):
it comes out sideways.
So I really want to talk aboutways to kind of deescalate when
our nervous systems arederegulated.
And I'll start with a story.
This is like super vulnerablebut like this happened this
morning.
So I was thinking about we'redoing this interview and I'm
like this is so funny that thisjust happened, because I can
tell you right now I am sooverstimulated.
(17:50):
My son just got married, mydaughter just graduated.
I've had so much company in myhouse for five days.
I have both sets of my parents,so my mom and then I have my
dad and my step-mom and theyhistorically don't get along
that well and so like all daylong for five days I'm like
entertaining them and I've gotall my kids at home and just so
(18:15):
much going on.
So like I know that my nervoussystem is on high alert and I am
so overstimulated.
And so this morning my husbandasked me a question and he asked
me the same question twice andmaybe I didn't answer loud
enough for him to hear me.
I told you he's like half deaf,so I don't think I answered
loud enough for him to hear methe first time.
(18:35):
And so the second time he askedthe question I went okay, it
just flew out of my mouth In hisface.
He was like like I had justthrown a projectile at him, like
he was so like, oh my gosh, whydid you react that way?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Right, he was taken aback.
He even took the step back.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I mean his whole body .
He was just like whoa, likewhat on earth, right and I'm
thinking about the old me thatwould have been like what the
heck is your like he.
He would have said what theheck is your problem?
And I would have said what theheck is your problem, and it
would have escalated into a hugeargument that we would have had
a really hard time coming outof.
(19:16):
But I immediately recognized hisreaction and I was like I'm so
sorry, like I'm so sorry, I'moverstimulated, I'm tired, I'm
like you know, I feel like Ijust have so much going on in my
head and I feel, like you know,frustrated that you didn't hear
me the first time, and so it,like that, just came out I am so
(19:38):
sorry and he's like it's cool,you know.
And so we deescalated.
But I want to talk about waysin which, because I'm super, I
am super aware that I'moverstimulated right now, but
there are definite times whenI'm not aware that I'm just
being overstimulated by myenvironment and the things that
are happening, and then we snapat each other and it starts a
(20:00):
big fight, and then we don'teven know what we're fighting
about and off to the races Justlike it was.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, thank you for sharing that, because it is
vulnerable to be honest and open, and I think in your community,
this beautiful create communitythat you've created like this,
is what it's about, right, beinghonest and being open about
what really is happening so thatyou can also receive the
(20:28):
support of the community and youknow your book and reach out to
you.
You're you're walking the talk.
You're not just talking aboutit.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, and I'm telling you we're not perfect, like by
any means, because, like youknow, we were fine for about 30
minutes and then, you know,about an hour later, we got into
a big argument about because wedisagreed about whether the
tires need to be changed on thecar.
So I mean we have skills thatwe've worked on, but when we are
not accessing those skills, itis a disaster.
(20:56):
Just like everybody else whofights in their marriage, right
so it.
I am coming to you, the expert,and being like how do we
deescalate when our our nervoussystems are so amped up and
everything feels like danger?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, your awareness of that dysregulation one is one
of the most important things.
And in order to practice thatawareness it's a skill, right,
it's just for anybody who's juststarting this, it's not
something that we've been taught, it really isn't.
Most of us have been taught oh,just push through, you're okay,
(21:34):
hold it together, that kind ofthing.
So it really is a skill tonotice in the first place, and
we can start with just the signsthat happen in our body.
So we talked aboutinteroception for a minute, the
sense that your heart is racinga little bit more.
Or if you can feel your hands,your hands might be sweating or
(21:57):
other areas of your body thatusually sweats.
For you, this is a sympatheticresponse.
In your nervous system.
You might find that you kind ofhyper focus on a task that
you're doing or, conversely, itcan be very, very difficult to
focus.
So you do one thing it can befor 10 seconds and then you
(22:19):
switch over.
It's really hard to be presentin whatever that thing is that
you're doing.
Your breathing rate mightchange, you might just feel kind
of buzzy inside.
At least that's what happensfor me I'm like, ooh, I'm
feeling, feeling a little buzzyright here, and that's that
sympathetic response.
So when we have a stressfulmoment, our body responds by
(22:43):
releasing some cortisol andadrenaline right, these things
that get our heart pumping andget us moving when we're
stressed Because our body sensesdanger.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Exactly.
Yeah, there's some type ofthreat and when our body is
experiencing that danger, thatthreat, it doesn't know that.
Oh, it's actually just yourhusband asking a question.
We're these sweet animals thatare just responding to it as if
it was a tiger coming at you,responding to it as if it was,
(23:13):
you know, a tiger coming at you.
So those responses or reactionsthat you have are just you
trying to regain some sense ofsafety, and that's why they're
not always the most skillful andthat's why sometimes we fight
right, that's the big snap, orwe're just like get me out of
here, and you run out the room,or you need to burrito yourself
up in bed and say nobody, talkto me, leave me alone.
(23:34):
Those are signs that our nervoussystem is pretty active, it's
responding to a threat or astressful moment.
And those are signs outside ofourselves that we could look
into, look at, to notice.
All right, something might begoing on here.
And so there's your first stepjust noticing.
And that in and of itself is askill to continuously work on,
(23:57):
continuously refine it.
It's in those little ways thatyou refine your understanding of
yourself that can help in a bigway.
So if you're alreadydysregulated and it's been
happening over the course of afew days, your body may not be
as resourced to deal with theadditional input.
(24:18):
Say of your example of yourhusband asking you another
question right, your cup is fulland that one more drop is just
too much, and that one more dropis just too much.
So in that moment it soundslike you were able to notice
because of his response wow,what you just did was out of the
(24:40):
norm, it was out of a space ofregulation for you.
Yes, right In yourcommunication.
So when that happens again,it's this honesty, compassion,
right, the curiosity foryourself just to say out loud
whoa.
I wasn't expecting that either.
I think I need to take care ofmyself for a minute before we
(25:03):
continue this right.
It's that pause, thatintentional, thoughtful pause,
and it doesn't need to be pretty.
You can say I don't know whatthat was right there, but I
think I need to take care ofmyself before we continue.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, totally.
I mean totally.
But I noticed for me, when I'mtalking and I'm dysregulated, my
husband calls this pinging.
He's like you're pinging?
And I'm like, yes, because I'mamped up and I'm agitated and
I'm trying to work it out.
I'm a very verbal processorwhere he is an internal
(25:33):
processor, so I'm like pingingall over the place trying to
figure out what the heck isgoing on with me and he's not
responding to me and that makesme even more agitated.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, yeah, so that energy.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I'm like freaking , respond to me and he's like
you're pinging.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, that's such a such a good way to say that when
you receive him saying that,are you able to, are you able to
receive it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yes, years later now, like years later, I'm like
you're right, I'm pinging, I'magitated, like let me go
organize my thoughts.
Like let me go for a walk ormove my body.
Or sometimes he'll be like canI get you to the gym?
Like you should go to the gymCause I, like I have a lot of
energy and I'm just pingingRight, or it could mean time for
(26:20):
bed, like.
Like sometimes he's like allright, I'm going to handle the
dishes or whatever.
Like you should just go to bedand I'll just go in my room and
if I can't sleep right away,I'll read a book or something.
But like now I get it.
Now it's like, oh, pinging meansI am agitated or, you know, too
amped up, my nervous systemisn't regulating and I just need
(26:43):
to take a break.
But what used to?
He'd say that it would justmake me well, he wouldn't say
anything.
That's the thing.
He wouldn't say anything.
I'm processing everythingverbally, like throwing words at
him and he's not sayinganything.
And I'm like are you evenlistening to me?
Like what is the problem?
And it would just get me moreagitated.
So that wasn't good.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Right, right.
So, intuitively, you're alreadyhelping each other in a way
that makes sense, based on whatwe know about the nervous system
.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
So if you are activated in that way or
agitated that's our sympatheticresponse your body is like we
are in action mode.
We are going to do stuff.
We don't know exactly whatwe're going to do.
It might be a littledisorganized, might be super,
super excited.
Again, these are states thatjust are right.
(27:34):
It just, it just is what it is.
So that is the compassion forit.
So, in that moment, that'swhere you are, and there's my
approach towards regulation iscalled aha, like aha, cause I
think bringing in the fun isreally great, yeah, yeah.
So first we acknowledge andthat's just what you did, right,
(27:57):
acknowledge, oh, I'm pingingright now.
Yeah, okay.
The second is to honor.
To honor means to turn towardsthat pinging energy and
intuitively doing that throughgoing to the gym, going on a
walk.
This is moving your body, thisis doing more of the activation
Because, again, like I said, wehave cortisol and adrenaline
(28:20):
that are running through ourbody.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, you're ready to run from a tiger.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah yeah, I am activated right now, so honor
that by turning towards it alittle more.
It doesn't have to be a bigthing.
Some daily practices that Ilike are to shake it out.
You can do a dance.
You can give your body someproprioceptive input through
(28:47):
deep pressure.
You can do some wall pushups.
Think about whatever it is yourbody is saying I need to do.
Maybe you just want to jumparound, maybe you want to scream
.
Sometimes it might mean pullingout some paper and ripping it
up and throwing it away.
These could be.
(29:08):
You can make it tactile sensorythings.
Exactly, exactly Like use yoursenses.
It might mean that you have asong that you like to rock out
to when you're activated and youturn that song on and you're
just leaning into it, you'reallowing your body to feel what
it's needing to feel in thatmoment and to process.
So this is happening at thecellular level and after you do.
(29:32):
That is our last A and that'syour action towards a sense of
safety or connection, akaregulation.
Right.
So to be in this state and sayyou decide, you know what I'm
just going to, I'm going to walk, go into the room, I'm going to
shake it out, I'm going topound some pillows, whatever
needs to get done.
(29:53):
You're likely going to havemore mental clarity after that
or feel a little lighter againbecause of the neurotransmitters
and hormones that are moving inour body, and to move towards a
sense of safety and connection.
It might mean that you return toconversation with your husband.
It might mean that you returnto conversation with your
husband.
Or, if you have pets that youcan turn towards or your
(30:15):
favorite podcast that you liketo listen to, other
self-soothing activities thatcan bring you to a place of
knowing hey, I'm not alone inthis and I'm safe right now.
So on the sensory side, youknow, our eyes give us a lot of
input into our, our safety.
So one of these actions towardssafety and connection could
(30:39):
simply be looking out at adistance, or something I love to
do is, if you're inside, is totrace the shape of your windows
or a picture frame with youreyes.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
That's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So aha is something that we can all do when we're
having those moments.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Okay, acknowledge honor and action.
I love that so much.
One thing I have noticed overthe years that is so helpful in
like regulating my nervoussystem.
But also I tell all of myclients the how important it is
to walk and talk.
So like I've noticed thatdifficult conversations or
conversations where I would tendto ping Sometimes I'm like
(31:24):
let's go for a walk and talkabout this, because that way I'm
in action, I'm in motion andthat's kind of getting some of
the energy out.
That would be the pingingenergy and like I don't require
it seems like when we're walkingtogether, I feel connected and
I don't require that he likeresponds immediately.
(31:46):
But if we're just like lookingat each other, it's like I just
said something that I like whyare you not responding Right
Like it's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yes, exactly.
So I want you and yourlisteners to not only know oh,
here are some things that Nicolesaid I can do.
I'm gonna go rip up paper whenI'm feeling mad Right, that's
great.
But I also want to share withyou the reason why, like the
reason why behind these things,and why they help us.
So let's think about yourpinging.
(32:17):
You're in an activated state,there's a sense of a threat, and
from that sympathetic state weoften look at fight or flight.
So there's fight Ah, get thosewords out.
But for flight, it's, it'smovement, it's get me out of
here.
And what does walking simulate?
Rather, what are you actuallydoing?
You were moving your bodythrough space, yeah, right.
(32:39):
So you're getting thatvestibular input, you're getting
new smells, your eyes are ableto scan the environment and as
your eyes are scanning theenvironment, you're taking in
signals of safety.
So you're no longer stuck in asmall space expecting some type
of response from your spousethat's going to magically
regulate you, because we knowthat we are not depending on our
(33:02):
spouse's responses to do thatfor us, right, right.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Right, it's within us .
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, so it makes sense that the walk allows you
to shift the energy of thoseconversations, because you are
getting your sensory needs metin that moment and it also
sounds like there's a selfsoothing aspect for you, and so
you can speak more clearly aboutwhat you need to communicate,
(33:28):
in a way that you're doing itfrom, from compassion and with
that curiosity and consenttogether, cause you you chose to
take the walk together and workon it collaboratively for that
solution, like you said.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, so important.
Uh, this is like I knew thatthat part, the aha, was going to
be just so helpful, because Iknow that, like you know, this
is like when you say things thatyou wish you could take back
and you know it's all.
When you're dysregulated, whenyour nervous system is like
(34:02):
feeding you yes, all of thatcortisol, and you know you, just
you're in what I like to callthat.
I learned from Terry real andrelational therapy is you're in
your adaptive child, so it'slike this younger version of you
that's trying to keep you safe.
That's what's coming out.
(34:23):
It's not actually goodcommunication skills.
So you can have all the goodcommunication skills in the
world, but when you're activatedand you're in your adaptive
child, you're not going to usethose Right, and so it's really
important to have that aha toacknowledge like, okay, I am
extremely activated right now.
(34:43):
It is not my wise adult.
You know.
Prefrontal cortex that's onlineright now.
It's my amygdala, it's reacting.
You know I'm feeling cortexthat's online right now.
It's my amygdala, it's reacting.
You know, I'm feeling like Ineed to protect myself and
retaliate and do whatever it isthat I do when I'm in that
activated state and maybe Ihonor that Maybe I take a break.
Maybe I'm like, I cannotrespond to you from my wise
(35:07):
adult self right now, and so Ineed to take a break.
I need to take a walk, I needto rip some paper, whatever it
is, to take that action towardsgetting back into a state where
I can actually have a goodconversation with you or
communicate my needs, orwhatever it is.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
So good.
Okay, so here is.
This is huge for me.
What are some signs that you'remissing your partner's sensory
cues and how do you repair fromthat?
Because this is huge.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, if you.
Well, our example really fits,you know, if your, your partner,
partner, your spouse, kind ofsnaps out of nowhere or they go
quiet in the middle of theconversation and you're kind of
wondering, oh wait, whathappened?
What's wrong, you catchyourself wow, was I just going
off on a ramp for the last 20minutes?
(36:06):
And you were sitting there witha blank you know blank stare.
If someone's withdrawing,that's you know blank stare.
If someone's withdrawing,that's signaling you know their
freeze response and there's someprotection there.
Again, the body is respondingto a sense of threat.
So these are signs that you canlook for, even if your partner
(36:26):
is getting more and moreactivated.
I think that's the typical kindof argument scenario that we
often see both people gettingmore and more activated.
But these more subtle versionsof quietness, of moving around a
(36:47):
lot like not lookingcomfortable in their body you
might even see a person coveringtheir ears a little bit more.
They we often do these thingswithout even realizing it.
But if you're watching yourspouse in front of you and
you're saying, oh, actually youlook uncomfortable.
Oh, okay, is this making?
(37:08):
Is this making you feeluncomfortable?
Are you open to talking aboutit?
Hey, I noticed you got reallyquiet.
Was that too much for yoursystem?
For right now you could evenask did I say something or is
something happening that'smaking you feel overwhelmed?
It's not about the blame orcreating shame in the
(37:33):
relationship.
It's not about that.
It's about understanding eachother.
So you can even say I want tounderstand how you're responding
and how your body is respondinga little bit more so I can show
up in a supportive way nexttime.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, that's so good.
So that's that repair.
It's just getting curious, andI love the phrasing of I noticed
you got really quiet or Inoticed you're looking
uncomfortable.
Is there something that I coulddo next time to help you feel
more supportive?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
or yes, yes, oh, it's huge.
I mean, for some people they'venever heard that and, depending
on how they grew up, they mightnot have heard that or they did
, but then it came.
It followed with conditionalstatements or conditional love.
But for someone to say, oh hey,I noticed this in you, you know
(38:30):
, that's helping us meet ourneeds to be seen and to be
understood and for someone tooffer I'd like to get more
information so I can show up ina more supportive way next time.
That's a beautiful gift thatyou can give each other and you
can offer those, those questionsand that guidance.
(38:52):
Whether or not you're having adifficult time, it could be, it
could be a great eveningtogether.
And you still say that, oh, Inoticed that you, you know you
seemed really relaxed tonight.
Oh, what a gift to hear thatfrom someone you know.
Hear it reflected, you knowwhat.
I was really relaxed.
And then maybe they say I wantto understand that.
(39:14):
What was it about tonight thathelped you feel relaxed?
Because I love to do more ofthat and support you to feel
more relaxed.
I mean, how good is that?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yes, these are just really really like emotionally
mature ways to communicate withyour spouse, because I know,
like the younger versions of mewho didn't have these skills,
it's like what the heck is wrongwith you, you know.
Like I mean, that is thequestion, right.
It's like when you feelprompted to ask that question,
(39:44):
like what's wrong with you?
Why are you?
Why do you look souncomfortable?
Why are you not saying anything?
Why Like?
Instead like catch yourself andbe like okay, you actually are
curious, but like can you belovingly and compassionately
curious about your partner?
And and and really so, if youwant, like the cheat code for
(40:04):
that, it's really the phrase.
I noticed, I noticed you wentquiet tonight when we were
talking about this certain topic, or I noticed that you know you
got really uncomfortable atdinner when this topic was
brought up or when I started,you know, talking about our sex
(40:24):
life or whatever.
It is right, like I noticed.
And then just what you noticed?
Like what a video camera wouldpick up.
Not like I noticed you actedlike a big fat jerk when blah,
blah, blah.
Right, like that's not helpful,but if you can say, I noticed,
and then whatever, the securitycam footage would pick up and
(40:46):
then you get curious about thatwith your partner.
You're going to learn so muchabout each other and you really
will learn how to support eachother and you know what the
overstimulation with theactivation, what the discomfort
all of that is about and that is.
That is, like you said, it'ssuch a gift to be curious about
(41:09):
that with your partner, causeit's always it's going to be
changing all the time.
Right, like my husband couldhave easily.
Like I learned a lot about myhusband this weekend with my dad
, you know, like it's hisfather-in-law, and I notice
certain things when, when mydad's in town, and the way my
husband responds and I couldjust be like, why were you a
(41:31):
jerk to my dad tonight?
Or I could be like, hey hon, Inoticed that when my dad was
talking about politics, you gotuncomfortable.
Can you tell me more about whatthat was about?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Right, like yes, it's just.
That's opening the door forconnection.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yes, it's like I'm not judging you.
I want to know more about you.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Exactly, exactly and how beautiful.
I'm not judging you.
I want to know more about youExactly, exactly and how
beautiful.
I think that is one of thegreatest gifts of being in a
partnership or in a marriage.
You are with someone over timeand you get to learn about them
over time and we will evolveinto different versions of
ourselves.
I think that is so beautiful,and then you can continually
(42:15):
learn about this person.
It's not only about things thatthey did in their life or
achievements in the past orwhatever it is, but how their
worldview shifts, how theirunderstanding of their senses
shift, for example right.
How they maybe for a while werereally sensitive to something
and then the season changed andthey're feeling a little bit
(42:38):
better about it.
How like, how cool that itopens up this whole other area
for us to explore in ourrelationship and our connection
and continuously get to knowthis person you are choosing to
spend your life with.
I love it it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
I love it because I talk a lot about communication
and being curious about eachother, each other's thoughts and
preferences, but I've neverconsidered bringing sensory into
it, sensitivities andpreferences and things like that
.
So like, not only do you wantto understand your partner's
opinions and their thoughts andtheir ideas, but understanding
(43:17):
their sensory preferences andsensitivities is huge yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, it's a foundation that shapes all of
those other things.
You wonder why a person doesn'tlike to go to the grocery store
.
Yes, they don't like to go tothe grocery store.
They might not even be aware ofthe fact that.
Well, they enter this placewith bright lights and lots of
people and a whole bunch ofdecisions and the potential for
letting you down because theygot the wrong thing all of this.
But on the sensory side, thereis so much going on, and so them
(43:49):
saying, oh no, I'm avoidinggoing to the grocery store,
saying they don't want to go,might not be a personal thing to
you.
It might be very personal tothem because it's their sensory
experience.
But without having theseconversations, we aren't
applying the curiosity to oursenses and so we can't be
sensitive and thoughtful aboutit.
(44:09):
And thoughtful about it.
And once you discover, oh well,actually, oh so, yeah, when I,
when I do go to the grocerystore, it doesn't feel good and
I'm exhausted after.
So maybe you weren'tprocrastinating because of any
other reason other than yourbody's telling you it doesn't
feel good to be there.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yeah, I just feel like your actions follow.
Yeah, it just opens the doors toso much more understanding and
the ability to be a really good,understanding, compassionate
partner to each other.
So this has been awesome, LikeI.
Like I'm just giddy because Ifeel like there's so much
(44:46):
goodness and like depth in thisconversation for our listeners.
Like you could listen to this afew times and get more of how
to be more curious andcompassionate and um have
consent and create just a betterconnection with your partner,
um, by listening to this episode.
(45:08):
So, Nicole, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
Will you tell the listenerswhere they can find out more
about sensory sensitivities andall the work that you do?
Speaker 2 (45:19):
is at drnicoletd D-R-N-I-C-O-L-E-O-T-D, and
sensoryconsciouscom is thewebsite that you can go to to
(45:40):
learn more about these practicesand offers that might be coming
up.
We talked earlier about howsmall changes can make a really
big difference, and that'sexactly what I share in my
newsletter.
It's called refine, so we touchon the things that we could
refine in our daily lives tomake those big changes over time
, so you're welcome to join methere.
(46:00):
Excellent, thank you so, somuch.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Thank you for having me, Monica.
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, monica Tanner,and I'm really really excited
about our guest today.
She is Dr Nicole Villegas OTD,a doctor of occupational therapy
and the founder of the SensoryConscious Institute.
She helps individuals and teamstune into their nervous systems
(00:22):
and sensory patterns so theycan build relationships rooted
in safety, connection andclarity, both at home and in
their leadership.
Nicole teaches at BostonUniversity and has been featured
in BBC, ap News, tedx, real,simple and more.
Welcome to the podcast, nicole.
I am so excited for ourconversation today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, is there.
Before we get started, is thereanything else you would like
the listeners to know about?
Specifically, talk about whatit means to be sensory conscious
.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm happy to you know we're going to talk a lot today
about the senses and thenervous system and I was
thinking about listeners to youramazing podcast and what I
could bring so that you can allreally make the most of this
time and about being a sensoryconscious partner, and that
means understanding each otherand understanding each other in
(01:18):
a way that's beyond what you'rethinking and what you assume
about each other.
So tuning into your nervoussystem, thinking about your
partner, how they experience theworld, how you experience the
world, and how that in fact doesimpact how you show up together
.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yes, I love that so much, so okay.
So when we're talking about thesenses, obviously we're talking
about five senses.
There's more.
Oh yeah, Well let's, let's hearit.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Cause there's more.
So we have our five senses thatyou often think about, plus one
of my favorite is interoception, and that is the sense of your
feelings inside your body.
So we're going to get real heretoday.
I'm just going to say thatsense that you have to go to the
bathroom, the sense you gotgrumbly in your tummy or you're
(02:06):
super excited to go on a datewith your spouse yeah, that's
like the butterflies.
Butterflies, exactly, exactly,or they just do something
amazing and it takes your breathaway.
That's interoception workingright there.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, so would that be like a sixth sense or just
one there's more.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So let's talk your vestibularsystem, that is your sense of
moving through space.
So forward motion, up and downmotion, that means, oh, I just,
I can't help but think about themoment in the rom-coms where
people come together and there'sthat big lift off and the kiss,
(02:49):
yeah, yeah, that one.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The vestibular system is working, or when you first
started talking about that, Iwas like like when I'm really
clumsy and my husband laughs atme because I like trip over my
own feet, yes, yes, exactly, andthat's your proprioception,
your sense of where you are inspace.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So if you find yourself, you know, tripping
over your feet or hitting thecounter or the table with your
hip and you don't, you're likethat table has been there for 15
years.
Why did I just run into it forthe 50th time this week?
Yeah, yeah, that's your sensetoo.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That is so funny.
Okay, I love this.
So let's talk about.
I'm sure we'll talk aboutdifferent senses as we go but
what does it mean to be asensory conscious partner or
spouse?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You know, that really means understanding each other
on this nervous system level, tounderstand that our bodies are
constantly scanning for safetyand threat in our environment,
and it's about recognizing thata person's tone of voice, sound
(03:57):
around them, the texture in yourspace that you're spending time
together, or even pace of yourenvironment can create comfort
and it can also create overwhelm, and we're all experiencing
this in our own distinct way.
So when we're sensory conscious, we're not just thinking about
what our partner says or whatthey do, but we're also tuning
(04:18):
into their body and theenvironment and thinking about
how they might respond to theenvironment.
And meeting each other withcuriosity as you explore what
might be going on in yournervous system, rather than
reactivity or just jumping toconclusions.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, Okay, so that is like so important.
But let's talk about like howdo sensory preferences show up
in daily life?
So like I'm thinking about likeI like it really hot and my
husband like comes in and islike, oh my gosh, it's like a
(04:58):
freaking sauna in here, Right,and then like immediately turns
the air down, or you know likethose types of things, like
preferences, like yes, that is a, that is a perfect example.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And that moment between his noticing that it
doesn't fit his preference, butit does fit your preference,
that's the moment forcommunication and connection.
Yes, right, not only jumping to, oh, I'm going to shift this
environment because it fits forme, but to look over and think,
oh well, this really works forMonica.
(05:29):
I wonder if this is soothingfor you right now?
Or what need is it meeting foryou?
And so that's that moment ofbeing a sensory conscious spouse
, thinking okay, I'mexperiencing one thing, my
spouse is experiencing another.
How can we talk about this andcreate a space where it feels
safe and comfortable for both ofus?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Right.
And yeah, it's so amazingbecause, like in my 23 years of
marriage, I have so manyexamples.
For example, I like all theblinds up, like open, so that I
get like sunlight.
I like natural light, right andnot the fluorescent lighting,
and I'm home all day long.
I like natural light right andnot the fluorescent lighting,
and I'm home all day long whenit's sunny outside, Right, and
so I have all the blinds openand my husband will come in and
(06:13):
like immediately, doesn't evenrealize it is like closing all
of the blinds because to himhe's like we're wasting energy,
Like the you know the sunshinecoming in is heating up the
house, and like making the airconditioning work harder and
like all of these things.
And so, yeah, living withanother human, not to mention
all of our children and theirpreferences.
(06:33):
But you know, for 23 years,yeah, you can either just ignore
each other's preferences andlike move through life, just you
know, according to your ownpreferences, or you can
communicate just you know,according to your own
preferences, or you cancommunicate about you know what
your preferences are and come upwith I like to say
collaborative solutions, notcompromises.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yes, collaborative solution that's such a beautiful
way to put that, you know.
I think about a collaborativesolution to sound at home, right
?
So if one person is really intowatching their show or video
game or whatever else it mightbe, that's on in the background,
while the other really reallycan't stand that sound.
(07:18):
Yeah, you know, that's just theeruption starting.
It's a slow eruption of oh no,what am I going to do?
The reactivity would say, hey,turn that down.
Or really going right intodeclarative statements of you
need to do this and we should.
All that stuff that's not goingto be supportive for connection
(07:40):
and safety and communication inthe relationship, for
connection and safety andcommunication in the
relationship.
So, yes, that that collaborativesolution for being in the same
physical space and both gettingyour needs met not only helps
you in that moment but it helpsyou after the fact.
So say you were having this,this difference in preferences
around sound it was pretty loudin the house.
(08:02):
The other person needs it quiet.
If that person who needs itquiet ignores their need, you
know, suppresses it down, justas oh, I'm going to push through
this and then later you get todinner and that person who
suppressed their needs didn't,didn't, communicate what they
needed.
They were dysregulated duringthat time.
(08:22):
You get to dinner and, oh,someone might say they have a
short fuse.
Yeah, no, something doesn't goright.
The toast burns and it becomesa bigger emotional reaction or
response to that moment andyou're like wait, why are you so
mad?
The toast burned.
Well, it turns out that threehours ago their dysregulation
(08:44):
started and they didn't cometogether to address it.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
This is so awesome because, you know, I just wrote
this book called Bad MarriageAdvice and there's so many
topics that I hit in the bookthat this is like really, I mean
like, don't sweat the smallstuff, like, oh, I'll be the
bigger partner and I'll justignore the fact that the TV is
so loud I can't even concentrateon what I'm doing or you know,
(09:08):
whatever it is, that's like notsweating the small stuff, but
that small stuff becomes bigstuff and it comes out sideways,
right.
Like then you explode oversomething and your partner's
like what on earth just happened?
Like, and I'm like I've beensitting here listening to the TV
and I have a headache and youknow your partner has no idea,
(09:28):
unless you actually sweat thesmall stuff and communicated
with them, right.
But also this idea ofcompromise, like right, if you
know, if you like it really coldin the house and I like it
really hot in the house, and wecompromise on where both of us
are completely uncomfortable.
You know, it's like there's somany just points that that hits
(09:50):
on, which brings me to my nextquestion.
Because what, what I find is ifyou don't have really good
communication about this and youdon't have the skills to kind
of work out solutions that workfor both of you.
So, like on the sound, there'snumber numberless ways to figure
all of this out.
But like on the sound, likemaybe if my husband's deaf in
(10:13):
one ear and so when he'swatching TV it's really loud,
and he watches TV downstairs,but if I'm trying to go to sleep
it comes through the like, Ican hear everything that he's
watching.
So if he's watching TV, thelike, I can hear everything that
he's watching.
So if he's watching TV late atnight, he'll watch something
that he doesn't necessarily needthe sound to understand, like
sports, or something that he canfigure out what's going on
(10:34):
without the sound, or he'll turnon the subtitles, or he'll
listen to something with hisheadphones.
Right, there's like so manyways to collaboratively figure
that out.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yes, yeah.
And that's a such a beautifulexample because you are thinking
about each other.
In those moments, you're bothgetting your needs met, without
that compromise where you'reboth feeling icky about it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, and there are so many solutions.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So it can be fun to come together and I recommend
that people come together and gothrough these things right
Again with curiosity and withcompassion.
Those are two of the three C'sof self-care I love to teach.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh, let's start talking about those, because I
think that's really important.
Curiosity is so important,something I talk about all the
time, like why is this importantto me and why is it important
to them?
Right, and so you can figureout how to create the solution
when you use curiosity andcreativity, right?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yes, yes and compassion.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I love that.
That's a great C.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
When we bring compassion to that conversation,
it means that judgment can canhold off a little bit.
It can.
It can take a seat.
It doesn't need to enter theroom and if it does, you bring
up compassion again to say, oh,maybe that was a little judgy.
Also, it turns out that mypreference isn't good or bad, it
just is.
And your preference isn't goodor bad, it it just is good or
(12:02):
bad, right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
They have no place in this, in these conversations.
Right, Because it's just yourpreference and my preference.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, yes.
And one of the most importantC's from my perspective is
consent.
Okay, and we often talk aboutthat word in certain spaces, but
don't bring it to everydayconversation.
But for me and for this,consent means are you saying yes
in this moment?
(12:30):
Are you saying no in thismoment?
It's also okay to say I don'tknow.
I don't know if I'm wanting tohave this conversation, but when
you ask yourself, okay, am Isaying yes to having this
conversation with my spouseabout our senses, and you do say
yes, that signals to yournervous system some safety.
(12:51):
So you're already preparingyourself for the compassion and
the curiosity to be easier,because it's telling your
nervous system oh hey, you saidyes to this.
This is an okay thing.
We're choosing to do this, andthat empowered yes gets you so
much closer.
It makes you so much closertogether from the get-go when
you start the conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yes, I love that.
I love that and an example ofcuriosity.
So this is like just I'mthinking about when my husband
and I first were having kids,and we had little little kids,
and he would take me on vacationand the like, for the first 24
hours of any vacation, no matterwhere we went, I I needed to
(13:34):
like sleep a little bit, like inorder to like catch up so that
I could have an enjoyable timedoing whatever we were doing.
So it didn't matter if we wentto like this beautiful paradise
like I couldn't go out and siton the beach or like do anything
until I caught up on a littlebit of sleep.
And my husband, who wasn'tnecessarily like sleepy, tired,
(13:54):
he wanted to watch TV, like nomatter where we were, we could
be in like Island paradise, andhe's like I just he would just
need it to kind of likedecompress and like watch TV,
and we're in this little tinyspace together, right, and it's
hard for me to sleep if he'swatching TV, and so that's where
we first.
So this is this curiosity piece, right, like we just came to,
(14:16):
you know, hawaii, where there'sso much to see and do, and like
tell me how you're feeling andwhat do you need right now?
And I would be like I just needto sleep, for, like, give me
like 24 hours or 12 hours tojust sleep, and then I'm good to
go.
And my husband's like well, youknow, I don't want to go
(14:37):
somewhere without you, but Idon't think I can sleep right
now.
And so that's when he startedwatching TV with the sound off,
like he would just catch us upon the sports highlights or
whatever it is that he can turnthe subtitles on if he wants to
watch something.
But he would just sit in thehotel room and he would watch
show while I, with the, with nosound, while I slept.
(14:58):
And then we could wake up andlike both of us were like we got
, we were so filled now and wecan go do something fun, right.
But it took some curiosity,compassion, consent and
creativity for us to like comeup with that.
Otherwise it would just be likeI just brought you to Hawaii,
why are you sleeping, right?
(15:19):
Or like vice versa, like we'reoff on vacation together, you're
watching a show.
It takes some compassion andsome real curiosity about what
is needful for both partners.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yes, oh, that was such a beautiful example.
To think now that that's whereit started.
And when it comes to late nightTV watching, you've created a
solution for that.
So, over time, how that'sevolved in your relationship,
and just to reflect it startedwith you to identifying what you
(15:53):
needed in that moment andthere's no doubt that what you
needed whether it's the nap orI'm going to frame it as some
visual stimulation through theTV right A moment to get his
head out of the currentenvironment, right To kind of
escape for a minute beforecoming back.
Um, that that's also based onyour nervous system and the
(16:15):
needs of your nervous system inthe moment.
Totally and the other part ofthat recognize that in yourself
means you can communicate it.
Then you can show up togetherand come up with those solutions
.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Communication is so important.
The other part of that that Iforgot is the reason why he
loved catching up on sports whenwe would travel is because we
didn't pay for cable at home,and so he is a big, huge sports
guy, right.
So we would go to a hotel andhe'd be like sweet, flipping
through the sports channels,right.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
What a treat.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, and he didn't have to listen to them, but to
see you know what was going onand be able to catch up on the
highlights was like his favoritething in the whole wide world.
So now I'm getting what I need,he's getting what he needs and
now we can just enjoy each otherRight.
So it's like so important.
But this is going to be myfavorite topic of of this
(17:07):
interview.
I'm just certain of it.
But like when?
So I feel like when we're notgetting our sensory needs met,
but sometimes it's likeperiphery, like we don't really
realize that we'reoverstimulated, and then we snap
at our partner or we're justreally edgy or, um, yeah, like
(17:29):
it comes out sideways.
So I really want to talk aboutways to kind of deescalate when
our nervous systems arederegulated.
And I'll start with a story.
This is like super vulnerablebut like this happened this
morning.
So I was thinking about we'redoing this interview and I'm
like this is so funny that thisjust happened, because I can
tell you right now I am sooverstimulated.
(17:50):
My son just got married, mydaughter just graduated.
I've had so much company in myhouse for five days.
I have both sets of my parents,so my mom and then I have my
dad and my step-mom and theyhistorically don't get along
that well and so like all daylong for five days I'm like
entertaining them and I've gotall my kids at home and just so
(18:15):
much going on.
So like I know that my nervoussystem is on high alert and I am
so overstimulated.
And so this morning my husbandasked me a question and he asked
me the same question twice andmaybe I didn't answer loud
enough for him to hear me.
I told you he's like half deaf,so I don't think I answered
loud enough for him to hear methe first time.
(18:35):
And so the second time he askedthe question I went okay, it
just flew out of my mouth In hisface.
He was like like I had justthrown a projectile at him, like
he was so like, oh my gosh, whydid you react that way?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Right, he was taken aback.
He even took the step back.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I mean his whole body .
He was just like whoa, likewhat on earth, right and I'm
thinking about the old me thatwould have been like what the
heck is your like he.
He would have said what theheck is your problem?
And I would have said what theheck is your problem, and it
would have escalated into a hugeargument that we would have had
a really hard time coming outof.
(19:16):
But I immediately recognized hisreaction and I was like I'm so
sorry, like I'm so sorry, I'moverstimulated, I'm tired, I'm
like you know, I feel like Ijust have so much going on in my
head and I feel, like you know,frustrated that you didn't hear
me the first time, and so it,like that, just came out I am so
(19:38):
sorry and he's like it's cool,you know.
And so we deescalated.
But I want to talk about waysin which, because I'm super, I
am super aware that I'moverstimulated right now, but
there are definite times whenI'm not aware that I'm just
being overstimulated by myenvironment and the things that
are happening, and then we snapat each other and it starts a
(20:00):
big fight, and then we don'teven know what we're fighting
about and off to the races Justlike it was.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, thank you for sharing that, because it is
vulnerable to be honest and open, and I think in your community,
this beautiful create communitythat you've created like this,
is what it's about, right, beinghonest and being open about
what really is happening so thatyou can also receive the
(20:28):
support of the community and youknow your book and reach out to
you.
You're you're walking the talk.
You're not just talking aboutit.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, and I'm telling you we're not perfect, like by
any means, because, like youknow, we were fine for about 30
minutes and then, you know,about an hour later, we got into
a big argument about because wedisagreed about whether the
tires need to be changed on thecar.
So I mean we have skills thatwe've worked on, but when we are
not accessing those skills, itis a disaster.
(20:56):
Just like everybody else whofights in their marriage, right
so it.
I am coming to you, the expert,and being like how do we
deescalate when our our nervoussystems are so amped up and
everything feels like danger?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, your awareness of that dysregulation one is one
of the most important things.
And in order to practice thatawareness it's a skill, right,
it's just for anybody who's juststarting this, it's not
something that we've been taught, it really isn't.
Most of us have been taught oh,just push through, you're okay,
(21:34):
hold it together, that kind ofthing.
So it really is a skill tonotice in the first place, and
we can start with just the signsthat happen in our body.
So we talked aboutinteroception for a minute, the
sense that your heart is racinga little bit more.
Or if you can feel your hands,your hands might be sweating or
(21:57):
other areas of your body thatusually sweats.
For you, this is a sympatheticresponse.
In your nervous system.
You might find that you kind ofhyper focus on a task that
you're doing or, conversely, itcan be very, very difficult to
focus.
So you do one thing it can befor 10 seconds and then you
(22:19):
switch over.
It's really hard to be presentin whatever that thing is that
you're doing.
Your breathing rate mightchange, you might just feel kind
of buzzy inside.
At least that's what happensfor me I'm like, ooh, I'm
feeling, feeling a little buzzyright here, and that's that
sympathetic response.
So when we have a stressfulmoment, our body responds by
(22:43):
releasing some cortisol andadrenaline right, these things
that get our heart pumping andget us moving when we're
stressed Because our body sensesdanger.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Exactly.
Yeah, there's some type ofthreat and when our body is
experiencing that danger, thatthreat, it doesn't know that.
Oh, it's actually just yourhusband asking a question.
We're these sweet animals thatare just responding to it as if
it was a tiger coming at you,responding to it as if it was,
(23:13):
you know, a tiger coming at you.
So those responses or reactionsthat you have are just you
trying to regain some sense ofsafety, and that's why they're
not always the most skillful andthat's why sometimes we fight
right, that's the big snap, orwe're just like get me out of
here, and you run out the room,or you need to burrito yourself
up in bed and say nobody, talkto me, leave me alone.
(23:34):
Those are signs that our nervoussystem is pretty active, it's
responding to a threat or astressful moment.
And those are signs outside ofourselves that we could look
into, look at, to notice.
All right, something might begoing on here.
And so there's your first stepjust noticing.
And that in and of itself is askill to continuously work on,
(23:57):
continuously refine it.
It's in those little ways thatyou refine your understanding of
yourself that can help in a bigway.
So if you're alreadydysregulated and it's been
happening over the course of afew days, your body may not be
as resourced to deal with theadditional input.
(24:18):
Say of your example of yourhusband asking you another
question right, your cup is fulland that one more drop is just
too much, and that one more dropis just too much.
So in that moment it soundslike you were able to notice
because of his response wow,what you just did was out of the
(24:40):
norm, it was out of a space ofregulation for you.
Yes, right In yourcommunication.
So when that happens again,it's this honesty, compassion,
right, the curiosity foryourself just to say out loud
whoa.
I wasn't expecting that either.
I think I need to take care ofmyself for a minute before we
(25:03):
continue this right.
It's that pause, thatintentional, thoughtful pause,
and it doesn't need to be pretty.
You can say I don't know whatthat was right there, but I
think I need to take care ofmyself before we continue.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Yeah, totally.
I mean totally.
But I noticed for me, when I'mtalking and I'm dysregulated, my
husband calls this pinging.
He's like you're pinging?
And I'm like, yes, because I'mamped up and I'm agitated and
I'm trying to work it out.
I'm a very verbal processorwhere he is an internal
(25:33):
processor, so I'm like pingingall over the place trying to
figure out what the heck isgoing on with me and he's not
responding to me and that makesme even more agitated.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, yeah, so that energy.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I'm like freaking , respond to me and he's like
you're pinging.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, that's such a such a good way to say that when
you receive him saying that,are you able to, are you able to
receive it.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yes, years later now, like years later, I'm like
you're right, I'm pinging, I'magitated, like let me go
organize my thoughts.
Like let me go for a walk ormove my body.
Or sometimes he'll be like canI get you to the gym?
Like you should go to the gymCause I, like I have a lot of
energy and I'm just pingingRight, or it could mean time for
(26:20):
bed, like.
Like sometimes he's like allright, I'm going to handle the
dishes or whatever.
Like you should just go to bedand I'll just go in my room and
if I can't sleep right away,I'll read a book or something.
But like now I get it.
Now it's like, oh, pinging meansI am agitated or, you know, too
amped up, my nervous systemisn't regulating and I just need
(26:43):
to take a break.
But what used to?
He'd say that it would justmake me well, he wouldn't say
anything.
That's the thing.
He wouldn't say anything.
I'm processing everythingverbally, like throwing words at
him and he's not sayinganything.
And I'm like are you evenlistening to me?
Like what is the problem?
And it would just get me moreagitated.
So that wasn't good.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Right, right.
So, intuitively, you're alreadyhelping each other in a way
that makes sense, based on whatwe know about the nervous system
.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
So if you are activated in that way or
agitated that's our sympatheticresponse your body is like we
are in action mode.
We are going to do stuff.
We don't know exactly whatwe're going to do.
It might be a littledisorganized, might be super,
super excited.
Again, these are states thatjust are right.
(27:34):
It just, it just is what it is.
So that is the compassion forit.
So, in that moment, that'swhere you are, and there's my
approach towards regulation iscalled aha, like aha, cause I
think bringing in the fun isreally great, yeah, yeah.
So first we acknowledge andthat's just what you did, right,
(27:57):
acknowledge, oh, I'm pingingright now.
Yeah, okay.
The second is to honor.
To honor means to turn towardsthat pinging energy and
intuitively doing that throughgoing to the gym, going on a
walk.
This is moving your body, thisis doing more of the activation
Because, again, like I said, wehave cortisol and adrenaline
(28:20):
that are running through ourbody.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, you're ready to run from a tiger.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah yeah, I am activated right now, so honor
that by turning towards it alittle more.
It doesn't have to be a bigthing.
Some daily practices that Ilike are to shake it out.
You can do a dance.
You can give your body someproprioceptive input through
(28:47):
deep pressure.
You can do some wall pushups.
Think about whatever it is yourbody is saying I need to do.
Maybe you just want to jumparound, maybe you want to scream
.
Sometimes it might mean pullingout some paper and ripping it
up and throwing it away.
These could be.
(29:08):
You can make it tactile sensorythings.
Exactly, exactly Like use yoursenses.
It might mean that you have asong that you like to rock out
to when you're activated and youturn that song on and you're
just leaning into it, you'reallowing your body to feel what
it's needing to feel in thatmoment and to process.
So this is happening at thecellular level and after you do.
(29:32):
That is our last A and that'syour action towards a sense of
safety or connection, akaregulation.
Right.
So to be in this state and sayyou decide, you know what I'm
just going to, I'm going to walk, go into the room, I'm going to
shake it out, I'm going topound some pillows, whatever
needs to get done.
(29:53):
You're likely going to havemore mental clarity after that
or feel a little lighter againbecause of the neurotransmitters
and hormones that are moving inour body, and to move towards a
sense of safety and connection.
It might mean that you return toconversation with your husband.
It might mean that you returnto conversation with your
husband.
Or, if you have pets that youcan turn towards or your
(30:15):
favorite podcast that you liketo listen to, other
self-soothing activities thatcan bring you to a place of
knowing hey, I'm not alone inthis and I'm safe right now.
So on the sensory side, youknow, our eyes give us a lot of
input into our, our safety.
So one of these actions towardssafety and connection could
(30:39):
simply be looking out at adistance, or something I love to
do is, if you're inside, is totrace the shape of your windows
or a picture frame with youreyes.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
That's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So aha is something that we can all do when we're
having those moments.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Okay, acknowledge honor and action.
I love that so much.
One thing I have noticed overthe years that is so helpful in
like regulating my nervoussystem.
But also I tell all of myclients the how important it is
to walk and talk.
So like I've noticed thatdifficult conversations or
conversations where I would tendto ping Sometimes I'm like
(31:24):
let's go for a walk and talkabout this, because that way I'm
in action, I'm in motion andthat's kind of getting some of
the energy out.
That would be the pingingenergy and like I don't require
it seems like when we're walkingtogether, I feel connected and
I don't require that he likeresponds immediately.
(31:46):
But if we're just like lookingat each other, it's like I just
said something that I like whyare you not responding Right
Like it's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yes, exactly.
So I want you and yourlisteners to not only know oh,
here are some things that Nicolesaid I can do.
I'm gonna go rip up paper whenI'm feeling mad Right, that's
great.
But I also want to share withyou the reason why, like the
reason why behind these things,and why they help us.
So let's think about yourpinging.
(32:17):
You're in an activated state,there's a sense of a threat, and
from that sympathetic state weoften look at fight or flight.
So there's fight Ah, get thosewords out.
But for flight, it's, it'smovement, it's get me out of
here.
And what does walking simulate?
Rather, what are you actuallydoing?
You were moving your bodythrough space, yeah, right.
(32:39):
So you're getting thatvestibular input, you're getting
new smells, your eyes are ableto scan the environment and as
your eyes are scanning theenvironment, you're taking in
signals of safety.
So you're no longer stuck in asmall space expecting some type
of response from your spousethat's going to magically
regulate you, because we knowthat we are not depending on our
(33:02):
spouse's responses to do thatfor us, right, right.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Right, it's within us .
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, so it makes sense that the walk allows you
to shift the energy of thoseconversations, because you are
getting your sensory needs metin that moment and it also
sounds like there's a selfsoothing aspect for you, and so
you can speak more clearly aboutwhat you need to communicate,
(33:28):
in a way that you're doing itfrom, from compassion and with
that curiosity and consenttogether, cause you you chose to
take the walk together and workon it collaboratively for that
solution, like you said.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Yeah, so important.
Uh, this is like I knew thatthat part, the aha, was going to
be just so helpful, because Iknow that, like you know, this
is like when you say things thatyou wish you could take back
and you know it's all.
When you're dysregulated, whenyour nervous system is like
(34:02):
feeding you yes, all of thatcortisol, and you know you, just
you're in what I like to callthat.
I learned from Terry real andrelational therapy is you're in
your adaptive child, so it'slike this younger version of you
that's trying to keep you safe.
That's what's coming out.
(34:23):
It's not actually goodcommunication skills.
So you can have all the goodcommunication skills in the
world, but when you're activatedand you're in your adaptive
child, you're not going to usethose Right, and so it's really
important to have that aha toacknowledge like, okay, I am
extremely activated right now.
(34:43):
It is not my wise adult.
You know.
Prefrontal cortex that's onlineright now.
It's my amygdala, it's reacting.
You know I'm feeling cortexthat's online right now.
It's my amygdala, it's reacting.
You know, I'm feeling like Ineed to protect myself and
retaliate and do whatever it isthat I do when I'm in that
activated state and maybe Ihonor that Maybe I take a break.
Maybe I'm like, I cannotrespond to you from my wise
(35:07):
adult self right now, and so Ineed to take a break.
I need to take a walk, I needto rip some paper, whatever it
is, to take that action towardsgetting back into a state where
I can actually have a goodconversation with you or
communicate my needs, orwhatever it is.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
So good.
Okay, so here is.
This is huge for me.
What are some signs that you'remissing your partner's sensory
cues and how do you repair fromthat?
Because this is huge.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, if you.
Well, our example really fits,you know, if your, your partner,
partner, your spouse, kind ofsnaps out of nowhere or they go
quiet in the middle of theconversation and you're kind of
wondering, oh wait, whathappened?
What's wrong, you catchyourself wow, was I just going
off on a ramp for the last 20minutes?
(36:06):
And you were sitting there witha blank you know blank stare.
If someone's withdrawing,that's you know blank stare.
If someone's withdrawing,that's signaling you know their
freeze response and there's someprotection there.
Again, the body is respondingto a sense of threat.
So these are signs that you canlook for, even if your partner
(36:26):
is getting more and moreactivated.
I think that's the typical kindof argument scenario that we
often see both people gettingmore and more activated.
But these more subtle versionsof quietness, of moving around a
(36:47):
lot like not lookingcomfortable in their body you
might even see a person coveringtheir ears a little bit more.
They we often do these thingswithout even realizing it.
But if you're watching yourspouse in front of you and
you're saying, oh, actually youlook uncomfortable.
Oh, okay, is this making?
(37:08):
Is this making you feeluncomfortable?
Are you open to talking aboutit?
Hey, I noticed you got reallyquiet.
Was that too much for yoursystem?
For right now you could evenask did I say something or is
something happening that'smaking you feel overwhelmed?
It's not about the blame orcreating shame in the
(37:33):
relationship.
It's not about that.
It's about understanding eachother.
So you can even say I want tounderstand how you're responding
and how your body is respondinga little bit more so I can show
up in a supportive way nexttime.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, that's so good.
So that's that repair.
It's just getting curious, andI love the phrasing of I noticed
you got really quiet or Inoticed you're looking
uncomfortable.
Is there something that I coulddo next time to help you feel
more supportive?
Speaker 2 (38:09):
or yes, yes, oh, it's huge.
I mean, for some people they'venever heard that and, depending
on how they grew up, they mightnot have heard that or they did
, but then it came.
It followed with conditionalstatements or conditional love.
But for someone to say, oh hey,I noticed this in you, you know
(38:30):
, that's helping us meet ourneeds to be seen and to be
understood and for someone tooffer I'd like to get more
information so I can show up ina more supportive way next time.
That's a beautiful gift thatyou can give each other and you
can offer those, those questionsand that guidance.
(38:52):
Whether or not you're having adifficult time, it could be, it
could be a great eveningtogether.
And you still say that, oh, Inoticed that you, you know you
seemed really relaxed tonight.
Oh, what a gift to hear thatfrom someone you know.
Hear it reflected, you knowwhat.
I was really relaxed.
And then maybe they say I wantto understand that.
(39:14):
What was it about tonight thathelped you feel relaxed?
Because I love to do more ofthat and support you to feel
more relaxed.
I mean, how good is that?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yes, these are just really really like emotionally
mature ways to communicate withyour spouse, because I know,
like the younger versions of mewho didn't have these skills,
it's like what the heck is wrongwith you, you know.
Like I mean, that is thequestion, right.
It's like when you feelprompted to ask that question,
(39:44):
like what's wrong with you?
Why are you?
Why do you look souncomfortable?
Why are you not saying anything?
Why Like?
Instead like catch yourself andbe like okay, you actually are
curious, but like can you belovingly and compassionately
curious about your partner?
And and and really so, if youwant, like the cheat code for
(40:04):
that, it's really the phrase.
I noticed, I noticed you wentquiet tonight when we were
talking about this certain topic, or I noticed that you know you
got really uncomfortable atdinner when this topic was
brought up or when I started,you know, talking about our sex
(40:24):
life or whatever.
It is right, like I noticed.
And then just what you noticed?
Like what a video camera wouldpick up.
Not like I noticed you actedlike a big fat jerk when blah,
blah, blah.
Right, like that's not helpful,but if you can say, I noticed,
and then whatever, the securitycam footage would pick up and
(40:46):
then you get curious about thatwith your partner.
You're going to learn so muchabout each other and you really
will learn how to support eachother and you know what the
overstimulation with theactivation, what the discomfort
all of that is about and that is.
That is, like you said, it'ssuch a gift to be curious about
(41:09):
that with your partner, causeit's always it's going to be
changing all the time.
Right, like my husband couldhave easily.
Like I learned a lot about myhusband this weekend with my dad
, you know, like it's hisfather-in-law, and I notice
certain things when, when mydad's in town, and the way my
husband responds and I couldjust be like, why were you a
(41:31):
jerk to my dad tonight?
Or I could be like, hey hon, Inoticed that when my dad was
talking about politics, you gotuncomfortable.
Can you tell me more about whatthat was about?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Right, like yes, it's just.
That's opening the door forconnection.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yes, it's like I'm not judging you.
I want to know more about you.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Exactly, exactly and how beautiful.
I'm not judging you.
I want to know more about youExactly, exactly and how
beautiful.
I think that is one of thegreatest gifts of being in a
partnership or in a marriage.
You are with someone over timeand you get to learn about them
over time and we will evolveinto different versions of
ourselves.
I think that is so beautiful,and then you can continually
(42:15):
learn about this person.
It's not only about things thatthey did in their life or
achievements in the past orwhatever it is, but how their
worldview shifts, how theirunderstanding of their senses
shift, for example right.
How they maybe for a while werereally sensitive to something
and then the season changed andthey're feeling a little bit
(42:38):
better about it.
How like, how cool that itopens up this whole other area
for us to explore in ourrelationship and our connection
and continuously get to knowthis person you are choosing to
spend your life with.
I love it it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
I love it because I talk a lot about communication
and being curious about eachother, each other's thoughts and
preferences, but I've neverconsidered bringing sensory into
it, sensitivities andpreferences and things like that
.
So like, not only do you wantto understand your partner's
opinions and their thoughts andtheir ideas, but understanding
(43:17):
their sensory preferences andsensitivities is huge yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, it's a foundation that shapes all of
those other things.
You wonder why a person doesn'tlike to go to the grocery store
.
Yes, they don't like to go tothe grocery store.
They might not even be aware ofthe fact that.
Well, they enter this placewith bright lights and lots of
people and a whole bunch ofdecisions and the potential for
letting you down because theygot the wrong thing all of this.
But on the sensory side, thereis so much going on, and so them
(43:49):
saying, oh no, I'm avoidinggoing to the grocery store,
saying they don't want to go,might not be a personal thing to
you.
It might be very personal tothem because it's their sensory
experience.
But without having theseconversations, we aren't
applying the curiosity to oursenses and so we can't be
sensitive and thoughtful aboutit.
(44:09):
And thoughtful about it.
And once you discover, oh well,actually, oh so, yeah, when I,
when I do go to the grocerystore, it doesn't feel good and
I'm exhausted after.
So maybe you weren'tprocrastinating because of any
other reason other than yourbody's telling you it doesn't
feel good to be there.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yeah, I just feel like your actions follow.
Yeah, it just opens the doors toso much more understanding and
the ability to be a really good,understanding, compassionate
partner to each other.
So this has been awesome, LikeI.
Like I'm just giddy because Ifeel like there's so much
(44:46):
goodness and like depth in thisconversation for our listeners.
Like you could listen to this afew times and get more of how
to be more curious andcompassionate and um have
consent and create just a betterconnection with your partner,
um, by listening to this episode.
(45:08):
So, Nicole, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
Will you tell the listenerswhere they can find out more
about sensory sensitivities andall the work that you do?
Speaker 2 (45:19):
is at drnicoletd D-R-N-I-C-O-L-E-O-T-D, and
sensoryconsciouscom is thewebsite that you can go to to
(45:40):
learn more about these practicesand offers that might be coming
up.
We talked earlier about howsmall changes can make a really
big difference, and that'sexactly what I share in my
newsletter.
It's called refine, so we touchon the things that we could
refine in our daily lives tomake those big changes over time
, so you're welcome to join methere.
(46:00):
Excellent, thank you so, somuch.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Thank you for having me, Monica.
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