May 12, 2025 • 40 mins
Rob and Robin discuss how effective listening skills create the foundation for deeper connection in marriage, sharing insights from their recent four-week marriage workshop with 30 couples.
• Learning to speak your spouse's "foreign language" by understanding their communication style
• Creating a "bridge" that connects two individuals while maintaining healthy individuality
• How nonverbal cues like eye contact, body language, and physical touch communicate more than words
• Why hugging your spouse with no agenda builds emotional intimacy and security
• The importance of being present and engaged when listening rather than planning your response
• How asking questions instead of offering solutions shows respect for your spouse's perspective
• Learning to slow down in disagreements actually helps resolve conflicts more quickly
• Working on yourself first as the foundation for a healthy marriage
Music by - Roger Jaeger - from the album (Fall Off the Earth)
Produced by - Jared Nester
Outro by - Madison Nester
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Rob and I'm Robin.
Thanks for listening toMarriage and.
Us.
Each week, we will talk aboutreal-life topics that couples
experience in everyday marriedlife.
So let's get to today's episode.
Hello everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hi out there.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hi, I know it's hard to believe, but we are back.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yes, it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We're going to just.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Own it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, let's just own it.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
We have not been in witness protection plan or
abducted by aliens or any ofthose.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Stranded on an island somewhere?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, Exactly Just life has happened.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Boy.
Is that not the truth?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, it's just been a lot going on, but thanks for
tuning in today and listening tous.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Come back.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yes, don't leave us.
If this is your first time,well, you're just going to have
to just jump right in wherewe're at, that's it.
And so here we go.
Lots of things going on in ourlives.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, since the new year.
It has been a busy few monthsit has been.
Well, I say few, here we are, Imean we're in.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
May, exactly, wow yeah.
I mean we're in May, exactly,wow yeah.
Living life on the farm.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I don't know, we can't have for some of you that
have listened to us in a while.
We used to call this thepodcast corner, so I don't know
if we can call it that anymore.
Maybe podcast on the farm, or Idon't know.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
We'll think about it?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, let's think about it.
On an exciting note for us, aswe're recording, we have just
finished up our first everfour-week.
We did a four-week classes,workshops.
Workshops our church asked usto do on marriage had about 30
(02:05):
couples and it was a veryexciting um, challenging, um,
even though we I've I've spokena lot over the years.
Uh, but a little scary maybeeven.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, it was good To put herself out there Plan
something every week, right, andto talk to so many couples at
one time was really great.
Yeah, I think it was reallygood for us and they seemed to
enjoy it.
At least that's what they toldus.
So hopefully they were tellingus the truth.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But we just kind of talked about and the four week
classes, everything we've kindof talked about for the last two
or three years on the podcastobviously what we've done the
last 15 years is coaches and ascounselors, and kind of
summarize that in a in a classsetting.
It was interesting becauseobviously for you and I were
very relational, so not havingthat.
(03:13):
I think the biggest challengefor us in those moments was not
having the always theinteraction of the spontaneous
moment of communication back andforth because people are
listening.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Right, right.
And if they ask a question youreally can't dial into that one
couple and really kind of start,you know, the conversation back
and forth to kind of dig in alittle deeper for things that
are going on in their lives orquestions that they asked us.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So uh and then sharing uh publicly you know it
can be um, if you don't know ifit's a safe place or not, and
you're trying to fill that outand see how that would feel.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, those that ask questions.
That was vulnerable.
They were brave and Iappreciate that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah because you're in a class with your spouse and
if you ask a question there's noway to not go.
I think they may be talkingabout their husband or their
wife in this question and I'mwanting a little direction on it
, but it was very uh, it wasvery honoring to be asked to do
it and it was great for us, Imean, cause that is part of our
(04:16):
I'd say our bigger dreams, forwhat we want to do as a, as a
couple, with marriage and withand uh, individuals.
So I think that was yeah it wasgreat.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It was was great, it was really great.
So, out of those classes, um, Iknow we talked about, like you
said, many topics we've coveredover the past few years the you
know that about the autopilotconcept, um, talking about the
foreign language, you know,which is what we call um
learning how to speak yourspouse's language more than your
(04:46):
own when it comes toconversations and especially in
dealing with conflict.
So we kind of kiddingly, sayit's the foreign language.
I speak Rob, you speak Robin,so we covered that.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
We touched on that in the last episode, which seems
like months ago, because it wasit kind of was, we did touch on
that Productive conflict, whichis a big thing.
That we it was, but we didtouch on that productive
conflict, which is a big thingthat we talk about Again.
learning learning how to, likeyou said, you take the foreign
language, learning how to speakyour spouse's language and then
(05:19):
taking a disagreement which is aword that came up a lot
disagreement, an argument andlearning how to make that
productive so that you can learnsomething about your spouse
that you didn't know before.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Right, right, and I think what we left on on our
last episode that we recorded,we talked a lot about we had to
go back and listen to ourselves,so we knew what we said but we
talked about.
You know, when it comes toconflict, Effective
communication.
Yeah, and effectivecommunication.
We talked a lot about listening.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And how to speak, and how to speak.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
yeah, but more from the speaking aspect than
listening.
I think we might have talkedabout listening a little bit,
and that's why we're going totalk about listening today.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, it's again.
I think that the key to this weall want to be heard, but it's
interesting in saying that toreally be heard, you've also got
to be able to listen, to knowhow to respond properly.
That was the thought that washitting me this morning before
(06:22):
we went on, you know to be, wetalked about being an effective
speaker, but to be an effective,great leaders know how to
listen well.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
True.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And, as you, I think to be a great spouse.
As you learn to listen well, ithelps you have a better roadmap
of knowing how to navigate thanwhat to say.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Versus you've said this many times rather than just
responding or reacting, youknow, again, a reaction to a
moment, if you can pause, whichwe're big believers in it's.
One of the greatest things youcan give yourself in marriage is
learning how to pause and havethat ability then to receive,
(07:07):
ask questions.
Because, again, if you're justrambling off and just talking,
you're really not communicatingright.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You're just talking a lot sure, and and I think you
know, we covered a little bit ofthat last time and that is so
important because when you're,when you're speaking and sharing
from your perspective, thegreatest gift you can give your
spouse as the listener is to notoverwhelm them with too much
(07:38):
information.
We always refer to that asflooding.
Sure we always refer to that asflooding Sure.
Where you're, just you're, anda lot of times this happens
because you have probably waiteda little too long to bring up
something.
A topic or something that's beensomething that your spouse has
been doing that's bothering youor something you're in
(07:58):
disagreement with, and when youwait too long, it just builds up
, builds up, builds up, and thenit's just kind of like a like
the dam breaks and you are justflooding, flooding.
Your spouse with you know allthis information and you're just
kind of, you know, I meanyou're, you're just letting it
all out at one time, and it'shard sometimes for your spouse
(08:18):
to uh, you know, be able to takeall that in versus Well, you're
literally drowning in words Imean when you, I mean as soon as
you said that I knew where youwere headed.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
But that visual of that, when you think about all
these cheesy movies that you seewhere the dam breaks and you
know it's those aren't realtrees or whatever and it's just
flooding down this valley andeverything gets wiped out.
There's no time to react orthink because you're just
flooded by these words andyou're just trying to catch up.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Which goes back to what we talked about in the last
episode.
Again knowing how to speak,knowing how to pause.
Give time for your spouse todigest those things.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Right, and that you're not trying to solve every
problem in one moment.
You're staying on topic withsomething, and I think what
happens is that, especially ifit's something that's
reoccurring, which we hear a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yes, we heard that in the classes a lot, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
You know when, when it's cyclical, you know, is a
good word for that, in otherwords, reoccurring, repeating.
You know circular, you knowit's cyclical, it keeps coming
around and around.
Sometimes it's seasonal, it's aconversation that's never been
resolved, and in certain seasonsit becomes a hot-button topic.
(09:41):
I'd never thought about thisuntil today.
There are some hot-but buttontopics that are seasonal.
Maybe an example holidays.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
You know, and that is a true season.
Yes, you know right, deck thehalls with balsam, sorry, so you
got holidays or anniversariesor just times of year that are
challenging and difficult, youknow, for you.
So that kind of recaps thespeaking piece.
But yeah, let's dive into thelistening aspect to be a good
(10:16):
listener.
So just in closing of what wewere just talking about, I'm
just saying that as a speaker,the greatest gift you can give
your spouse as the listener isenough information, but not too
much information.
Can you explain that further,versus you trying to in one
(10:45):
breath speak for 10 minutesabout every detail of something
that has gotten under your skin,wouldn't you say yes, would you
say.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
also, you know, as we read books and listen to other
podcasts and different things,that you and I do and trying to
always, I mean for both of uswhat I love about our journey,
you and I, is we have reallyworked hard, which is something
(11:15):
we stress to all of our couplesof understanding that you have
to work on yourself first.
Help me say the phrase rightthat we just came up with at the
class so a healthy family.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
A healthy family starts with a healthy couple or
marriage.
And a healthy marriage startswith a healthy you.
Yeah Right, if you aren'thealthy, if you're not working
on yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So some of you may be saying what do you mean by that
?
I'm saying if you have issuesthat you deal with based on
experiences you've hadthroughout your life right, that
may be that negatively notmaybe, but did negatively impact
you and create mindsets andexpectations, then you can get
(12:13):
into struggles with your spousethat really have nothing to do
with your spouse because they'rereally about something that you
haven't worked through foryourself, based on these
experiences that negativelyimpacted you, but you take them
out on your spouse.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
That is so good.
Oh, my goodness, I could justcamp out with a fire right there
and pitch a tent in that.
That's where I know what we'regoing to talk about today, but I
want to dwell on that just fora second.
That's really where I have beenlately of an understanding the
importance of you know, workingon myself and we say this all
(12:52):
the time and men, women are too.
I'm gonna quit pretending thatit's just men that try to fix
everything.
I think you would agree womendo it as well, just in a
different way.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I feel very validated .
Speaker 3 (13:06):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right there.
But understanding that and youand I have talked about this
this is way back.
I think season two we talkedabout understanding that we're
two individuals coming together.
You say this all the time.
It's one of my favorite thingsthat you say Two individuals
coming together.
Yes, we're a couple, now we'reone, but still celebrating who
(13:30):
we are as individuals, and thatmade me think.
We just heard this recently.
I've got a bunch of thoughts onthis.
Some of this you've never heardbefore.
What I've got written down,Okay good.
But I began to think about.
We heard the analogy about abridge, and that a bridge is
this wonderful thing.
Let me just read this to you.
(13:51):
Can I read this to you realquick?
So a bridge symbolizes theconnection between partners,
facilitating communication andunderstanding.
While it isn't a place toreside, it serves as a pathway
that allows spouses to navigatetheir differences and share
(14:12):
their needs.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Really good.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And that really hit me when I heard somebody say
that.
So I kind of expounded on thata little bit of understanding
that we're two individualscreating this wonderful world
together called marriage.
But we have to have a pathway.
We have to have a bridgebetween who we are individually
(14:36):
and who we are as a couple.
And you know, when you thinkabout that a bridge you know we,
when you symbolize that with,when you visualize that in your
mind it relies on trust.
A bridge in marriage is, itcreates effective communication
because it's a pathway.
Well, I'm not going to live onthe bridge.
(14:57):
Right right, or I'm not going tolive in a van down by the river
or whatever the case may be.
But with that, when youvisualize that a bridge requires
maintenance but a bridge inmarriage creates, this enables
both partners to journeytogether through life with
challenges and joy.
(15:17):
So when you think about that,it helps me get to who we are as
individuals, but as a couple.
But I have to learn, like whatwe just said, be a great speaker
.
But then my next step is howwell do I listen?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, that's really really good.
Yeah, and I like that thoughtof the fact that you can't camp
out on the bridge.
You can meet in the middle,right, but really, what I
pictured is if there are twoplaces and the bridge connects
them, it's really about onespouse coming over the bridge
(15:58):
into their other spouse's worldand vice versa, so that they're
traveling back and forth, givingand receiving, which very much
mirrors speaking and listening.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Right yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And then the more that you listen, those two
worlds start moving closertogether, almost like the bridge
in some ways.
Maybe it gets smaller as itgoes, because now you have
learned so much about eachother's world that there's so
much balance.
(16:29):
You know it's.
It's like it's moving thosethings closer.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, I can see that, but but my, I think for me,
when I think, when I think aboutthat, is understanding that I
still this, and you and I'vetalked about this many times.
I, when we first got married, Iso wanted just to do everything
with you.
I almost wanted you to be me,which is sounds silly in a way,
(16:55):
because I don't want to marry me.
That would be boring.
I wanted to marry you, so,understanding that that only
happens when I learn not onlyhow to speak well but how to
listen well.
I need that and I don't want touse the word gap, that's a bad
analogy, but I need thatconnector.
(17:15):
Let's use it that way.
The bridge is a connector forme to help understand who you
are, because, again what we justsaid, I've got to learn how to
work on me, because, even thoughwe're one I don't want you to
have it in your head as we'retalking about this there's a
bridge that separates us.
The bridge is a way to connectus.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Okay, I can see that.
Get to the other side.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, and so the bridge builds these foundations,
or these pillars pillars ofcommunication, foundations of
trust, all those things that weneed because, again, I still
want to be me and I still wantyou to be you.
That's what makes our marriagegreat, in that I can see that
and it creates these.
The bridge gives us thisopportunity to have these shared
(18:00):
experiences yes, Back and forththat we give to each other.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yes, and I would say over a lifetime.
I mean there's constantly goingto be levels of learning.
I mean we have found that overand over again, even moving here
onto this property, you knoweverything's new and so we are
recreating home again.
You know we have much morespace Now.
We live on several acres versusa small yard in the city.
(18:27):
You know, and so just how we doday-to-day things, how we
manage our home and the dreamsand desires that we see.
You know, it's just if there'salways this level of learning.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Well, it's like, it's like the the.
We own 16 acres now and it'slike I can't do it with a push
mower.
I mean I could, but you'd neversee me again.
I would have to pitch a tentand just wake up, he's out there
somewhere I hear the mower.
Where is he?
But it's even like now.
We've had a different season.
It's been raining a lot andit's been very difficult for me
(19:06):
to keep up with mowing and theyard.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Sure, it just keeps growing, but the ground is
soaking wet and it's raining.
You can't get out there.
So you know, right now, partsof our property are, you know,
truly meadows, right now they're.
You know, they're about twofeet tall.
They're beautiful, but they'rejust wild.
Yeah, exactly, you know, it'sjust wild.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So listening?
Share with me some of yourthoughts on that.
You've got with that when itcomes to listening.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Listening.
So I thought let's talk aboutthe practical, some of the
practical points when it comesto listening and this has more
to do with our nonverbal waythat we are communicating as a
listener, as we are listening toour spouse- sharing with us.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So I'm talking, for example, to you and I'm watching
you as I'm sharing.
So these are the cues.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yes, Very simple things actually.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Good good and.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And not good.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
They're good and they're important, but they can
be challenging.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Right, when I say good and not good, there's like
I know you can talk about like.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Oh, you mean like yes ?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
The nonverbal, like if you're talking and I'm making
eye contact with you or I'mnodding my head, you know?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Sure, those are the things I thought.
Let's talk about it.
If you're not even looking atyour spouse as they're sharing,
that's not good, Right, Right?
So yes, simple things like eyecontact, which you know, even
the science behind the way thatwe look into each other's eyes.
There's just a lot there, butit really signals to our brain.
(20:42):
That's just in the most in thesimplest terms, that I belong.
You know that I am connected.
Eye contact is so importantbecause it is the way that our
brains see.
You know we're seeing eachother, and what it's sending as
far signals to our brain is Ihear you, yeah, you know, and I
(21:03):
see you, and I see you literally, I see you.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, you know I would.
I didn't know you were going totalk about right away.
One of the favorite things thatI enjoyed about the class was
at the beginning of each class,and this just happened to happen
the first night we went.
We went.
Oh, we've struck.
Something here is we had theway we had everything set up.
They were set sitting side byside and not by other couples.
They were close but there was abig separation.
We had to stand up for some ofthem because they had just
(21:28):
walked in from work or whateverthe case may be.
So it was their firstopportunity, maybe, to see their
spouse all day.
We had to stand up, face eachother and look at each other eye
to eye and just spend a momentstaring at each other or asking
how their day was.
Some hugged, some kissed.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
It was very it was very uh emotional for me it was,
it was intimate to see right tosee that many couples and how
they uh connect.
Yeah, you know, know, it's very, very sweet.
I love that's my favorite part.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The reason I bring that up is because, talking
about the nonverbal watchingtheir, we couldn't hear their
conversation, but watching theirnonverbal interaction was
incredible.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yes, it was really sweet, yeah, so okay, so we
brought up eye contact.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Open body language.
So what we mean by that is, youknow you're not turned sideways
to your partner or facing youknow your body totally facing in
the opposite direction of wherethey are we're talking about.
You know, turning our bodiestowards our spouse as we are
sharing and not only is thisimportant in disagreements, this
is just great connection, evenwhen you're just laughing and
(22:39):
having a good time and justwanting to connect.
Yeah, you know, turning our.
It seems like such a simplegesture.
Sometimes we sit side by side,but there is something also
that's kind of special aboutkind of turning towards each
other.
You know, with our arms kind ofrelaxed, not all folded real
tight.
You know our legs crossed realtight, like you know we're just
(23:02):
bundled up, but it's it's likebeing open, being receptive,
it's inviting conversationinstead of looking defensive
when it's uh, when it's in adisagreement kind of
conversation, but also even injust enjoyable conversations.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
That's what I wanted to say too.
So these non-verbals and wegood or bad, that's the word we
use.
It may not be the bestexplanation, but that's the
positive, there's the there'sthe negative side, but the
positive side.
One of my favorite things wedid just a while ago, before we
came on the podcast, is we gaveeach other a hug.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And if you're listening to this, it amazes me.
This is not to shame anybody,but it's to encourage you.
I mean, when's the last timeyou just hugged your spouse?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Not just saying I love you or hey, have a great
day, see you later.
But are you having thatnon-verbal connection?
Yes, it's physical, yes, you'retouching, I get that, but
sometimes we don't even.
We just hug each other right andthere's, there's that I know
without a shadow of a doubt, notjust us saying it's been
continually proven by scienceand people all all around world
(24:16):
that what that does to yourmarriage, what that does to
longevity of your marriage, thatthat touch, that hug of saying
I see you, I love you, I enjoybeing with you.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yes, physical, physical contact like that, yeah
, just what it signals to again,to our brains, to every part of
our body, is just so important.
And and I'm talking about, Iknow for some people they may
think well, you know, if I hugmy spouse, that means I'm, you
know, gonna it's gonna lead intosome intimacy or sex.
(24:49):
Let's just say it straight.
We're talking about like justjust holding each other, not
that it has to lead to thatevery single time or not.
If the only time you do that isbecause then it is going to
lead to something sexual thatthat would make me feel sad,
because I think that, you know,just embracing each other, just
(25:12):
to say you're safe with me, I'msafe with you and I, you know, I
just want to feel thatconnection is very precious.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Okay.
So this is so interesting.
You're bringing this up becauseit really has not hit me to
just this second I can.
I'm laughing at myself, and ifyou're a guy out there you may
laugh as well too.
I can honestly say, probablyearly on in our marriage that
may have been the thought, but Ican honestly say now that that
(25:45):
it doesn't.
I don't.
That's not where my heart andmy mind go to first.
It's more about I just whew,man, that's just kind of just
hitting me about, start bawlinghere.
It's more about man, I I justenjoy being with you, and the
intimacy part of the sex part isa.
It's not a bonus, you know it,it's just it's a by-product of
(26:10):
our connection together.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Right Because, but it doesn't have to be that because
you embrace every single time,it means we're going right Cause
, cause I don't I that becauseyou embrace every single time,
it means we're going in thatdirection, because I don't?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
yes because I know you know my viewpoint on this.
I don't know if I even and letme finish my statement before
you wreck the car or whatever Idon't even like the word sex to
a point, and here's my thoughton that.
So if Robin's even giving me alook, the word intimacy just is
(26:40):
anybody.
I'm not trying to chase arabbit here but anybody you can
have sex and it still not beintimate.
Yeah, so for me that's thedifference of what we're talking
(27:00):
about, of longevity, of adeeper place of love that comes
from understanding, listening,well, speaking, well, these
non-verbals that we're talkingabout, the physical touch, um,
it's like well, you know, that'sthe weird.
Now it's like I wash the dishes.
If I'm only washing the dishesto get something from you, I'm
really not serving you as mywife.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So if I, if I hug you and just let you know I just
enjoy being with you, what thatsays to your heart and what that
says to mine, that's way pastthe small word of sex.
Now we're truly having a placein intimacy because I'm letting
you know I really, really, notonly do I love you, I love being
(27:41):
with you.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
That's so good, babe.
Thank you for that.
That's really really, reallygood.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I've got to pull it back together.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I know I've got your brain thinking I know.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I mean, I'm like where do we go from here?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
But it's the nonverbal things it is.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
It's the nonverbal, it's connecting.
So again, it's open bodylanguage, it's eye contact.
It's nodding, like youmentioned for a second.
It's like as your spouse isspeaking, you're nodding, saying
I'm taking this in.
You have my full attention.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'm here with you Because our and because our
non-verbals, when we're, we'llstay on the the not so good part
for a second.
Think about how many timeswe've had couples sit on our
couch and we you can see fromtheir non-verbal the distress
that they're in yes becausethey're emotionally.
Our non-verbals are a way toeither connect emotionally or
(28:38):
push away emotionally and Ithink a lot of times we don't
understand how much that can beliterally pun intended read into
those type of things.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
It can be very deflective.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yes, you know it can be dismissive.
What's the statement that wejust read recently In a
disagreement or an argument?
My goal is not to control you,but to control myself.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So staying with that concept in our nonverbal.
You've got to be aware.
It's very important to be awareOf what you're not saying.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Right right saying right right, because you're
saying a lot without using yourvoice, just based on how you're
positioning yourself, likeyou're saying every everything
that we're talking about, evendown to our facial expressions,
of course, which this seems soobvious.
Maybe you're rolling your eyes.
It's not going to be veryhelpful in the moment, no, but
(29:35):
if you can smile, if you canlean in, you know to like the,
the leaning, and not only facialexpressions but your whole body
.
You're going to lean in a littlebit because you're, you're
paying attention.
You want them to know.
Hey, I'm validating yourfeelings, I, I, I, you know, I'm
here with you.
I'm here with you.
(29:55):
Um, like I said in adisagreement, but also gosh,
what it does for us when we'rejust connecting because you know
it's we, we can become so usedto each other.
The more years go by.
It is so easy.
Here we are sitting at.
This year will be 35 years ofmarriage.
(30:17):
It's very easy to slip intowhat we call that autopilot mode
, where we're just, you know,we're just we assume yeah, we're
, we're just, we're just goingthrough the motions.
you know, we're living every day, um, and we're not as
intentional as we have been inthe past.
(30:38):
You know, and and andintentionality is huge and
really again, and it can beapplied to everything, including
speaking and listening.
So I know time's moving on hereon this episode, but let's just
talk for a few seconds here, aswe're kind of coming to a close
.
Why is it so important?
To listen, right?
(31:00):
So so what do you think?
Why is it so important?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I was ready for your, ready for you.
What do you think?
What?
Why is it so important?
I was ready for your ready foryou.
What do you think?
Well, obviously, the term wedidn't come up with this term.
You know the word activelistening, I think one of the
main things.
I just said this earlier on ifI'm, if I learn to listen well,
it will help me when I speak,that's good.
(31:26):
Because my listening again, notlistening to fix you, not
listening to bring a rebuttalagainst you Again, none of those
things are active listening.
But if I'm listening wellyou've said this hundreds of
times, which I love it helps meask good questions.
I think a lot of times thisjust hit me.
(31:48):
I think a lot of times in ourlistening, our next words, our
response, it should be in a formof a question, because if the
person you're listening to,they're the one to a point
carrying the conversation,because they're trying to share
their feelings, to express whatthey're needing.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So my first goal is not to again fix, but to ask a
question again.
These all sound so basicbecause they've been said for
years.
This is what I hear you sayingand then, if you do have a
feeling, you again push it backon yourself.
This, when you said that, saidthat this is how this makes me
(32:28):
feel.
I'm not sure I know how torespond to that, but if you're,
if you're listening, well you're.
How then you communicate?
I believe will definitelychange.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It will improve for sure, absolutely.
Cause you're learning, you'relistening to learn.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, we're listening to learn something about our
spouse that we did not knowbefore.
And that listening, thatprinciple, if you just carry
that thought in mind.
Every time I'm listening to myspouse, whether we're just
waking up in the morning,whether we're just enjoying the
day, whether we are in conflictor not, I'm listening because
(33:08):
I'm learning, and the more youlearn.
Again, going back to thatlittle bridge concept, that
picture that you've painted sowell today, again, it's that
bridge of moving back and forth,of learning.
It's a pathway, a pathway, andit just strengthens the marriage
more and more.
And isn't that the goal?
(33:30):
I mean just to have awesome,rock-solid marriages that say
something to the world.
You know, it's just so needed,so important.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Well, it's not just active, but it's attentive
listening.
I'm being intentional with mylistening and I'm choosing to
hear what you have to say, notwaiting just to, because we have
to do this in our mind and thistakes time.
Because we have to do this inour mind and this takes time.
Robin and I both said we're notpros at it, because we continue
(34:07):
to try to get better at this,but it gives me the ability as
I'm listening, and then we'vetalked about this with so many
couples If you're the speaker,then you've got to give that
person time to process that aswell too Right, like we said at
the beginning, right.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Too much information is not always the best plan.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Because, let me ask you, this just really hit me
Because, actually, if we'requick to respond and a lot of
times we hear this a lot withcouples one person's always
wanting something resolved inthe moment, and I think I'm
(34:49):
learning that that is not theanswer.
Whether you're an extrovert oran introvert, if you can learn
how to listen well, I think thespeaker also has to learn how to
pause as well, too, and saythis is what I've shared, this
is what I need, this is what I'mfeeling.
(35:10):
The listener should startlearning how to slow down enough
to maybe they respond in themoment.
Maybe they don't, maybe we'reboth, maybe again, let's throw
the word extrovert and introvertaway.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Maybe we're both, maybe again let's throw the word
extrovert and introvert awayand I think when you're saying
extrovert and introvert, let mejust say I think you're
comparing that to someone whoneeds to talk, to think and
process versus someone, which isnothing wrong with that.
Right Versus someone like andthat's the extrovert, I think
it's important we say this theextrovert's going I'm an
extrovert, I'm going to talk, tothink.
An introvert is going to think,to talk and maybe think some
(35:49):
more, and then they're going totalk.
So yeah, I think that's good toclarify that.
But what I'm saying, you hearwhere I'm trying to push that a
little bit Sure, like what ifyeah, I'm hearing you say what
if every conversation doesn'thave to have resolve in the
moment?
Maybe there's value.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
And.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I'm not saying you can't get to it, sure, but maybe
there's even value in kind ofgiving that some time to
marinate for lack of a betterword.
I'm trying to think of you know, or to settle in to process
then to come back together maybe, and then maybe resolve would
(36:31):
come.
You would have a higher successrate with resolve because
you've placed a value on sometime, maybe even being given
that it might be important.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Is that what you're saying?
I think so.
I think that's an interestingconcept.
There's two things with that.
As we're closing today, there'stwo things.
One, in the class we had a lotof couples go.
Well, you know, they said theywere going to talk to me and
seven days later we stillhaven't.
That's too long.
You can't go that long.
I do think, on the flip side ofthat because we talked to some
(37:04):
other couples and we'refortunately, because you and I
have worked at it so hard we areat the place where we've
learned how to resolve quicker,because we learned each other's
language well, we ask goodquestions, we know how to
process in the moment.
(37:25):
We had a disagreement a coupledays ago about something and
within I don't know 10-15minutes, I was able to think.
We sat there for a secondtelevision.
You know.
We turned the television backon.
I had a second to process, pushthe mute button and I went hey,
I didn't see it from your pointof view.
I just jumped right in andexpect you to understand and see
(37:47):
everything the way I will, andwe resolved it and we went on.
Yeah, so, so there is thatplace where it seems like it
speeds up.
This is my, I'm getting mythought around this, so hang
with me.
It seems like it speeds up, butit actually because you've
learned how to slow down.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Oh, okay, wow, that's really good.
I like that does that?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
yes, I'm glad you said that on the recording so we
will have this here, becausethat's a really that's really
good.
Yeah, yeah it's we're able tospeed up because we've learned
to slow down yeah, yeah, that'sreally good.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
That is really good.
I'm glad that we did recordthat Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I think we can end on that.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
That's like a great ending note that just hit me,
that comes from a place waybeyond me.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Oh Well.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Okay, so go out and be good listeners, y'all.
Yeah, I wish you could be withus right now, because we're both
like man.
That's a wonderful thought.
That's our goal right as acouple To learn how to resolve
quicker yes, and deeper.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
But really feel, heard and seen.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Right.
I mean that's how I felt afterour discussion, our disagreement
, that we had Right, I felt, Ifelt I'd listen to you, you'd
listen to me, right, and we wenton.
Yeah, I haven't thought aboutit, or no Dwelt on it, or.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah, it's just great .
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
All right guys.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, that's good, so thanks for listening today.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
And every day that you do, we so appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
We will be back soon.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, exactly, and we may continue this all.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
All right, well, thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
See you again.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
You've been listening to Marriage and Us, with your
hosts, Rob and Robin Atkins.
Stay up to date by followingthem on Instagram at
marriageandus underscore podcastand on Twitter at marriageandus
.
Also hit the follow button soyou never miss an episode from
your favorite couple.
Hi, I'm Rob and I'm Robin.
Thanks for listening toMarriage and.
Us.
Each week, we will talk aboutreal-life topics that couples
experience in everyday marriedlife.
So let's get to today's episode.
Hello everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hi out there.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hi, I know it's hard to believe, but we are back.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yes, it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We're going to just.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Own it.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, let's just own it.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
We have not been in witness protection plan or
abducted by aliens or any ofthose.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Stranded on an island somewhere?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, Exactly Just life has happened.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Boy.
Is that not the truth?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, it's just been a lot going on, but thanks for
tuning in today and listening tous.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Come back.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yes, don't leave us.
If this is your first time,well, you're just going to have
to just jump right in wherewe're at, that's it.
And so here we go.
Lots of things going on in ourlives.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, since the new year.
It has been a busy few monthsit has been.
Well, I say few, here we are, Imean we're in.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
May, exactly, wow yeah.
I mean we're in May, exactly,wow yeah.
Living life on the farm.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I don't know, we can't have for some of you that
have listened to us in a while.
We used to call this thepodcast corner, so I don't know
if we can call it that anymore.
Maybe podcast on the farm, or Idon't know.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
We'll think about it?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, let's think about it.
On an exciting note for us, aswe're recording, we have just
finished up our first everfour-week.
We did a four-week classes,workshops.
Workshops our church asked usto do on marriage had about 30
(02:05):
couples and it was a veryexciting um, challenging, um,
even though we I've I've spokena lot over the years.
Uh, but a little scary maybeeven.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, it was good To put herself out there Plan
something every week, right, andto talk to so many couples at
one time was really great.
Yeah, I think it was reallygood for us and they seemed to
enjoy it.
At least that's what they toldus.
So hopefully they were tellingus the truth.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But we just kind of talked about and the four week
classes, everything we've kindof talked about for the last two
or three years on the podcastobviously what we've done the
last 15 years is coaches and ascounselors, and kind of
summarize that in a in a classsetting.
It was interesting becauseobviously for you and I were
very relational, so not havingthat.
(03:13):
I think the biggest challengefor us in those moments was not
having the always theinteraction of the spontaneous
moment of communication back andforth because people are
listening.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Right, right.
And if they ask a question youreally can't dial into that one
couple and really kind of start,you know, the conversation back
and forth to kind of dig in alittle deeper for things that
are going on in their lives orquestions that they asked us.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So uh and then sharing uh publicly you know it
can be um, if you don't know ifit's a safe place or not, and
you're trying to fill that outand see how that would feel.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, those that ask questions.
That was vulnerable.
They were brave and Iappreciate that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah because you're in a class with your spouse and
if you ask a question there's noway to not go.
I think they may be talkingabout their husband or their
wife in this question and I'mwanting a little direction on it
, but it was very uh, it wasvery honoring to be asked to do
it and it was great for us, Imean, cause that is part of our
(04:16):
I'd say our bigger dreams, forwhat we want to do as a, as a
couple, with marriage and withand uh, individuals.
So I think that was yeah it wasgreat.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It was was great, it was really great.
So, out of those classes, um, Iknow we talked about, like you
said, many topics we've coveredover the past few years the you
know that about the autopilotconcept, um, talking about the
foreign language, you know,which is what we call um
learning how to speak yourspouse's language more than your
(04:46):
own when it comes toconversations and especially in
dealing with conflict.
So we kind of kiddingly, sayit's the foreign language.
I speak Rob, you speak Robin,so we covered that.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
We touched on that in the last episode, which seems
like months ago, because it wasit kind of was, we did touch on
that Productive conflict, whichis a big thing.
That we it was, but we didtouch on that productive
conflict, which is a big thingthat we talk about Again.
learning learning how to, likeyou said, you take the foreign
language, learning how to speakyour spouse's language and then
(05:19):
taking a disagreement which is aword that came up a lot
disagreement, an argument andlearning how to make that
productive so that you can learnsomething about your spouse
that you didn't know before.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Right, right, and I think what we left on on our
last episode that we recorded,we talked a lot about we had to
go back and listen to ourselves,so we knew what we said but we
talked about.
You know, when it comes toconflict, Effective
communication.
Yeah, and effectivecommunication.
We talked a lot about listening.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And how to speak, and how to speak.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
yeah, but more from the speaking aspect than
listening.
I think we might have talkedabout listening a little bit,
and that's why we're going totalk about listening today.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, it's again.
I think that the key to this weall want to be heard, but it's
interesting in saying that toreally be heard, you've also got
to be able to listen, to knowhow to respond properly.
That was the thought that washitting me this morning before
(06:22):
we went on, you know to be, wetalked about being an effective
speaker, but to be an effective,great leaders know how to
listen well.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
True.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And, as you, I think to be a great spouse.
As you learn to listen well, ithelps you have a better roadmap
of knowing how to navigate thanwhat to say.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Versus you've said this many times rather than just
responding or reacting, youknow, again, a reaction to a
moment, if you can pause, whichwe're big believers in it's.
One of the greatest things youcan give yourself in marriage is
learning how to pause and havethat ability then to receive,
(07:07):
ask questions.
Because, again, if you're justrambling off and just talking,
you're really not communicatingright.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You're just talking a lot sure, and and I think you
know, we covered a little bit ofthat last time and that is so
important because when you're,when you're speaking and sharing
from your perspective, thegreatest gift you can give your
spouse as the listener is to notoverwhelm them with too much
(07:38):
information.
We always refer to that asflooding.
Sure we always refer to that asflooding Sure.
Where you're, just you're, anda lot of times this happens
because you have probably waiteda little too long to bring up
something.
A topic or something that's beensomething that your spouse has
been doing that's bothering youor something you're in
(07:58):
disagreement with, and when youwait too long, it just builds up
, builds up, builds up, and thenit's just kind of like a like
the dam breaks and you are justflooding, flooding.
Your spouse with you know allthis information and you're just
kind of, you know, I meanyou're, you're just letting it
all out at one time, and it'shard sometimes for your spouse
(08:18):
to uh, you know, be able to takeall that in versus Well, you're
literally drowning in words Imean when you, I mean as soon as
you said that I knew where youwere headed.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
But that visual of that, when you think about all
these cheesy movies that you seewhere the dam breaks and you
know it's those aren't realtrees or whatever and it's just
flooding down this valley andeverything gets wiped out.
There's no time to react orthink because you're just
flooded by these words andyou're just trying to catch up.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Which goes back to what we talked about in the last
episode.
Again knowing how to speak,knowing how to pause.
Give time for your spouse todigest those things.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Right, and that you're not trying to solve every
problem in one moment.
You're staying on topic withsomething, and I think what
happens is that, especially ifit's something that's
reoccurring, which we hear a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yes, we heard that in the classes a lot, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
You know when, when it's cyclical, you know, is a
good word for that, in otherwords, reoccurring, repeating.
You know circular, you knowit's cyclical, it keeps coming
around and around.
Sometimes it's seasonal, it's aconversation that's never been
resolved, and in certain seasonsit becomes a hot-button topic.
(09:41):
I'd never thought about thisuntil today.
There are some hot-but buttontopics that are seasonal.
Maybe an example holidays.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
You know, and that is a true season.
Yes, you know right, deck thehalls with balsam, sorry, so you
got holidays or anniversariesor just times of year that are
challenging and difficult, youknow, for you.
So that kind of recaps thespeaking piece.
But yeah, let's dive into thelistening aspect to be a good
(10:16):
listener.
So just in closing of what wewere just talking about, I'm
just saying that as a speaker,the greatest gift you can give
your spouse as the listener isenough information, but not too
much information.
Can you explain that further,versus you trying to in one
(10:45):
breath speak for 10 minutesabout every detail of something
that has gotten under your skin,wouldn't you say yes, would you
say.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
also, you know, as we read books and listen to other
podcasts and different things,that you and I do and trying to
always, I mean for both of uswhat I love about our journey,
you and I, is we have reallyworked hard, which is something
(11:15):
we stress to all of our couplesof understanding that you have
to work on yourself first.
Help me say the phrase rightthat we just came up with at the
class so a healthy family.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
A healthy family starts with a healthy couple or
marriage.
And a healthy marriage startswith a healthy you.
Yeah Right, if you aren'thealthy, if you're not working
on yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So some of you may be saying what do you mean by that
?
I'm saying if you have issuesthat you deal with based on
experiences you've hadthroughout your life right, that
may be that negatively notmaybe, but did negatively impact
you and create mindsets andexpectations, then you can get
(12:13):
into struggles with your spousethat really have nothing to do
with your spouse because they'rereally about something that you
haven't worked through foryourself, based on these
experiences that negativelyimpacted you, but you take them
out on your spouse.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
That is so good.
Oh, my goodness, I could justcamp out with a fire right there
and pitch a tent in that.
That's where I know what we'regoing to talk about today, but I
want to dwell on that just fora second.
That's really where I have beenlately of an understanding the
importance of you know, workingon myself and we say this all
(12:52):
the time and men, women are too.
I'm gonna quit pretending thatit's just men that try to fix
everything.
I think you would agree womendo it as well, just in a
different way.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I feel very validated .
Speaker 3 (13:06):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right there.
But understanding that and youand I have talked about this
this is way back.
I think season two we talkedabout understanding that we're
two individuals coming together.
You say this all the time.
It's one of my favorite thingsthat you say Two individuals
coming together.
Yes, we're a couple, now we'reone, but still celebrating who
(13:30):
we are as individuals, and thatmade me think.
We just heard this recently.
I've got a bunch of thoughts onthis.
Some of this you've never heardbefore.
What I've got written down,Okay good.
But I began to think about.
We heard the analogy about abridge, and that a bridge is
this wonderful thing.
Let me just read this to you.
(13:51):
Can I read this to you realquick?
So a bridge symbolizes theconnection between partners,
facilitating communication andunderstanding.
While it isn't a place toreside, it serves as a pathway
that allows spouses to navigatetheir differences and share
(14:12):
their needs.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Really good.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And that really hit me when I heard somebody say
that.
So I kind of expounded on thata little bit of understanding
that we're two individualscreating this wonderful world
together called marriage.
But we have to have a pathway.
We have to have a bridgebetween who we are individually
(14:36):
and who we are as a couple.
And you know, when you thinkabout that a bridge you know we,
when you symbolize that with,when you visualize that in your
mind it relies on trust.
A bridge in marriage is, itcreates effective communication
because it's a pathway.
Well, I'm not going to live onthe bridge.
(14:57):
Right right, or I'm not going tolive in a van down by the river
or whatever the case may be.
But with that, when youvisualize that a bridge requires
maintenance but a bridge inmarriage creates, this enables
both partners to journeytogether through life with
challenges and joy.
(15:17):
So when you think about that,it helps me get to who we are as
individuals, but as a couple.
But I have to learn, like whatwe just said, be a great speaker
.
But then my next step is howwell do I listen?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yeah, that's really really good.
Yeah, and I like that thoughtof the fact that you can't camp
out on the bridge.
You can meet in the middle,right, but really, what I
pictured is if there are twoplaces and the bridge connects
them, it's really about onespouse coming over the bridge
(15:58):
into their other spouse's worldand vice versa, so that they're
traveling back and forth, givingand receiving, which very much
mirrors speaking and listening.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Right yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And then the more that you listen, those two
worlds start moving closertogether, almost like the bridge
in some ways.
Maybe it gets smaller as itgoes, because now you have
learned so much about eachother's world that there's so
much balance.
(16:29):
You know it's.
It's like it's moving thosethings closer.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, I can see that, but but my, I think for me,
when I think, when I think aboutthat, is understanding that I
still this, and you and I'vetalked about this many times.
I, when we first got married, Iso wanted just to do everything
with you.
I almost wanted you to be me,which is sounds silly in a way,
(16:55):
because I don't want to marry me.
That would be boring.
I wanted to marry you, so,understanding that that only
happens when I learn not onlyhow to speak well but how to
listen well.
I need that and I don't want touse the word gap, that's a bad
analogy, but I need thatconnector.
(17:15):
Let's use it that way.
The bridge is a connector forme to help understand who you
are, because, again what we justsaid, I've got to learn how to
work on me, because, even thoughwe're one I don't want you to
have it in your head as we'retalking about this there's a
bridge that separates us.
The bridge is a way to connectus.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Okay, I can see that.
Get to the other side.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, and so the bridge builds these foundations,
or these pillars pillars ofcommunication, foundations of
trust, all those things that weneed because, again, I still
want to be me and I still wantyou to be you.
That's what makes our marriagegreat, in that I can see that
and it creates these.
The bridge gives us thisopportunity to have these shared
(18:00):
experiences yes, Back and forththat we give to each other.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yes, and I would say over a lifetime.
I mean there's constantly goingto be levels of learning.
I mean we have found that overand over again, even moving here
onto this property, you knoweverything's new and so we are
recreating home again.
You know we have much morespace Now.
We live on several acres versusa small yard in the city.
(18:27):
You know, and so just how we doday-to-day things, how we
manage our home and the dreamsand desires that we see.
You know, it's just if there'salways this level of learning.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Well, it's like, it's like the the.
We own 16 acres now and it'slike I can't do it with a push
mower.
I mean I could, but you'd neversee me again.
I would have to pitch a tentand just wake up, he's out there
somewhere I hear the mower.
Where is he?
But it's even like now.
We've had a different season.
It's been raining a lot andit's been very difficult for me
(19:06):
to keep up with mowing and theyard.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Sure, it just keeps growing, but the ground is
soaking wet and it's raining.
You can't get out there.
So you know, right now, partsof our property are, you know,
truly meadows, right now they're.
You know, they're about twofeet tall.
They're beautiful, but they'rejust wild.
Yeah, exactly, you know, it'sjust wild.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So listening?
Share with me some of yourthoughts on that.
You've got with that when itcomes to listening.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Listening.
So I thought let's talk aboutthe practical, some of the
practical points when it comesto listening and this has more
to do with our nonverbal waythat we are communicating as a
listener, as we are listening toour spouse- sharing with us.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So I'm talking, for example, to you and I'm watching
you as I'm sharing.
So these are the cues.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yes, Very simple things actually.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Good good and.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And not good.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
They're good and they're important, but they can
be challenging.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Right, when I say good and not good, there's like
I know you can talk about like.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Oh, you mean like yes ?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
The nonverbal, like if you're talking and I'm making
eye contact with you or I'mnodding my head, you know?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Sure, those are the things I thought.
Let's talk about it.
If you're not even looking atyour spouse as they're sharing,
that's not good, Right, Right?
So yes, simple things like eyecontact, which you know, even
the science behind the way thatwe look into each other's eyes.
There's just a lot there, butit really signals to our brain.
(20:42):
That's just in the most in thesimplest terms, that I belong.
You know that I am connected.
Eye contact is so importantbecause it is the way that our
brains see.
You know we're seeing eachother, and what it's sending as
far signals to our brain is Ihear you, yeah, you know, and I
(21:03):
see you, and I see you literally, I see you.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, you know I would.
I didn't know you were going totalk about right away.
One of the favorite things thatI enjoyed about the class was
at the beginning of each class,and this just happened to happen
the first night we went.
We went.
Oh, we've struck.
Something here is we had theway we had everything set up.
They were set sitting side byside and not by other couples.
They were close but there was abig separation.
We had to stand up for some ofthem because they had just
(21:28):
walked in from work or whateverthe case may be.
So it was their firstopportunity, maybe, to see their
spouse all day.
We had to stand up, face eachother and look at each other eye
to eye and just spend a momentstaring at each other or asking
how their day was.
Some hugged, some kissed.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
It was very it was very uh emotional for me it was,
it was intimate to see right tosee that many couples and how
they uh connect.
Yeah, you know, know, it's very, very sweet.
I love that's my favorite part.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The reason I bring that up is because, talking
about the nonverbal watchingtheir, we couldn't hear their
conversation, but watching theirnonverbal interaction was
incredible.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yes, it was really sweet, yeah, so okay, so we
brought up eye contact.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Open body language.
So what we mean by that is, youknow you're not turned sideways
to your partner or facing youknow your body totally facing in
the opposite direction of wherethey are we're talking about.
You know, turning our bodiestowards our spouse as we are
sharing and not only is thisimportant in disagreements, this
is just great connection, evenwhen you're just laughing and
(22:39):
having a good time and justwanting to connect.
Yeah, you know, turning our.
It seems like such a simplegesture.
Sometimes we sit side by side,but there is something also
that's kind of special aboutkind of turning towards each
other.
You know, with our arms kind ofrelaxed, not all folded real
tight.
You know our legs crossed realtight, like you know we're just
(23:02):
bundled up, but it's it's likebeing open, being receptive,
it's inviting conversationinstead of looking defensive
when it's uh, when it's in adisagreement kind of
conversation, but also even injust enjoyable conversations.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
That's what I wanted to say too.
So these non-verbals and wegood or bad, that's the word we
use.
It may not be the bestexplanation, but that's the
positive, there's the there'sthe negative side, but the
positive side.
One of my favorite things wedid just a while ago, before we
came on the podcast, is we gaveeach other a hug.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And if you're listening to this, it amazes me.
This is not to shame anybody,but it's to encourage you.
I mean, when's the last timeyou just hugged your spouse?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Not just saying I love you or hey, have a great
day, see you later.
But are you having thatnon-verbal connection?
Yes, it's physical, yes, you'retouching, I get that, but
sometimes we don't even.
We just hug each other right andthere's, there's that I know
without a shadow of a doubt, notjust us saying it's been
continually proven by scienceand people all all around world
(24:16):
that what that does to yourmarriage, what that does to
longevity of your marriage, thatthat touch, that hug of saying
I see you, I love you, I enjoybeing with you.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yes, physical, physical contact like that, yeah
, just what it signals to again,to our brains, to every part of
our body, is just so important.
And and I'm talking about, Iknow for some people they may
think well, you know, if I hugmy spouse, that means I'm, you
know, gonna it's gonna lead intosome intimacy or sex.
(24:49):
Let's just say it straight.
We're talking about like justjust holding each other, not
that it has to lead to thatevery single time or not.
If the only time you do that isbecause then it is going to
lead to something sexual thatthat would make me feel sad,
because I think that, you know,just embracing each other, just
(25:12):
to say you're safe with me, I'msafe with you and I, you know, I
just want to feel thatconnection is very precious.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Okay.
So this is so interesting.
You're bringing this up becauseit really has not hit me to
just this second I can.
I'm laughing at myself, and ifyou're a guy out there you may
laugh as well too.
I can honestly say, probablyearly on in our marriage that
may have been the thought, but Ican honestly say now that that
(25:45):
it doesn't.
I don't.
That's not where my heart andmy mind go to first.
It's more about I just whew,man, that's just kind of just
hitting me about, start bawlinghere.
It's more about man, I I justenjoy being with you, and the
intimacy part of the sex part isa.
It's not a bonus, you know it,it's just it's a by-product of
(26:10):
our connection together.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Right Because, but it doesn't have to be that because
you embrace every single time,it means we're going right Cause
, cause I don't I that becauseyou embrace every single time,
it means we're going in thatdirection, because I don't?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
yes because I know you know my viewpoint on this.
I don't know if I even and letme finish my statement before
you wreck the car or whatever Idon't even like the word sex to
a point, and here's my thoughton that.
So if Robin's even giving me alook, the word intimacy just is
(26:40):
anybody.
I'm not trying to chase arabbit here but anybody you can
have sex and it still not beintimate.
Yeah, so for me that's thedifference of what we're talking
(27:00):
about, of longevity, of adeeper place of love that comes
from understanding, listening,well, speaking, well, these
non-verbals that we're talkingabout, the physical touch, um,
it's like well, you know, that'sthe weird.
Now it's like I wash the dishes.
If I'm only washing the dishesto get something from you, I'm
really not serving you as mywife.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
So if I, if I hug you and just let you know I just
enjoy being with you, what thatsays to your heart and what that
says to mine, that's way pastthe small word of sex.
Now we're truly having a placein intimacy because I'm letting
you know I really, really, notonly do I love you, I love being
(27:41):
with you.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
That's so good, babe.
Thank you for that.
That's really really, reallygood.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I've got to pull it back together.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I know I've got your brain thinking I know.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I mean, I'm like where do we go from here?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
But it's the nonverbal things it is.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
It's the nonverbal, it's connecting.
So again, it's open bodylanguage, it's eye contact.
It's nodding, like youmentioned for a second.
It's like as your spouse isspeaking, you're nodding, saying
I'm taking this in.
You have my full attention.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'm here with you Because our and because our
non-verbals, when we're, we'llstay on the the not so good part
for a second.
Think about how many timeswe've had couples sit on our
couch and we you can see fromtheir non-verbal the distress
that they're in yes becausethey're emotionally.
Our non-verbals are a way toeither connect emotionally or
(28:38):
push away emotionally and Ithink a lot of times we don't
understand how much that can beliterally pun intended read into
those type of things.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
It can be very deflective.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yes, you know it can be dismissive.
What's the statement that wejust read recently In a
disagreement or an argument?
My goal is not to control you,but to control myself.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So staying with that concept in our nonverbal.
You've got to be aware.
It's very important to be awareOf what you're not saying.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Right right saying right right, because you're
saying a lot without using yourvoice, just based on how you're
positioning yourself, likeyou're saying every everything
that we're talking about, evendown to our facial expressions,
of course, which this seems soobvious.
Maybe you're rolling your eyes.
It's not going to be veryhelpful in the moment, no, but
(29:35):
if you can smile, if you canlean in, you know to like the,
the leaning, and not only facialexpressions but your whole body
.
You're going to lean in a littlebit because you're, you're
paying attention.
You want them to know.
Hey, I'm validating yourfeelings, I, I, I, you know, I'm
here with you.
I'm here with you.
(29:55):
Um, like I said in adisagreement, but also gosh,
what it does for us when we'rejust connecting because you know
it's we, we can become so usedto each other.
The more years go by.
It is so easy.
Here we are sitting at.
This year will be 35 years ofmarriage.
(30:17):
It's very easy to slip intowhat we call that autopilot mode
, where we're just, you know,we're just we assume yeah, we're
, we're just, we're just goingthrough the motions.
you know, we're living every day, um, and we're not as
intentional as we have been inthe past.
(30:38):
You know, and and andintentionality is huge and
really again, and it can beapplied to everything, including
speaking and listening.
So I know time's moving on hereon this episode, but let's just
talk for a few seconds here, aswe're kind of coming to a close
.
Why is it so important?
To listen, right?
(31:00):
So so what do you think?
Why is it so important?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I was ready for your, ready for you.
What do you think?
What?
Why is it so important?
I was ready for your ready foryou.
What do you think?
Well, obviously, the term wedidn't come up with this term.
You know the word activelistening, I think one of the
main things.
I just said this earlier on ifI'm, if I learn to listen well,
it will help me when I speak,that's good.
(31:26):
Because my listening again, notlistening to fix you, not
listening to bring a rebuttalagainst you Again, none of those
things are active listening.
But if I'm listening wellyou've said this hundreds of
times, which I love it helps meask good questions.
I think a lot of times thisjust hit me.
(31:48):
I think a lot of times in ourlistening, our next words, our
response, it should be in a formof a question, because if the
person you're listening to,they're the one to a point
carrying the conversation,because they're trying to share
their feelings, to express whatthey're needing.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
So my first goal is not to again fix, but to ask a
question again.
These all sound so basicbecause they've been said for
years.
This is what I hear you sayingand then, if you do have a
feeling, you again push it backon yourself.
This, when you said that, saidthat this is how this makes me
(32:28):
feel.
I'm not sure I know how torespond to that, but if you're,
if you're listening, well you're.
How then you communicate?
I believe will definitelychange.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It will improve for sure, absolutely.
Cause you're learning, you'relistening to learn.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, we're listening to learn something about our
spouse that we did not knowbefore.
And that listening, thatprinciple, if you just carry
that thought in mind.
Every time I'm listening to myspouse, whether we're just
waking up in the morning,whether we're just enjoying the
day, whether we are in conflictor not, I'm listening because
(33:08):
I'm learning, and the more youlearn.
Again, going back to thatlittle bridge concept, that
picture that you've painted sowell today, again, it's that
bridge of moving back and forth,of learning.
It's a pathway, a pathway, andit just strengthens the marriage
more and more.
And isn't that the goal?
(33:30):
I mean just to have awesome,rock-solid marriages that say
something to the world.
You know, it's just so needed,so important.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Well, it's not just active, but it's attentive
listening.
I'm being intentional with mylistening and I'm choosing to
hear what you have to say, notwaiting just to, because we have
to do this in our mind and thistakes time.
Because we have to do this inour mind and this takes time.
Robin and I both said we're notpros at it, because we continue
(34:07):
to try to get better at this,but it gives me the ability as
I'm listening, and then we'vetalked about this with so many
couples If you're the speaker,then you've got to give that
person time to process that aswell too Right, like we said at
the beginning, right.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Too much information is not always the best plan.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Because, let me ask you, this just really hit me
Because, actually, if we'requick to respond and a lot of
times we hear this a lot withcouples one person's always
wanting something resolved inthe moment, and I think I'm
(34:49):
learning that that is not theanswer.
Whether you're an extrovert oran introvert, if you can learn
how to listen well, I think thespeaker also has to learn how to
pause as well, too, and saythis is what I've shared, this
is what I need, this is what I'mfeeling.
(35:10):
The listener should startlearning how to slow down enough
to maybe they respond in themoment.
Maybe they don't, maybe we'reboth, maybe again, let's throw
the word extrovert and introvertaway.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Maybe we're both, maybe again let's throw the word
extrovert and introvert awayand I think when you're saying
extrovert and introvert, let mejust say I think you're
comparing that to someone whoneeds to talk, to think and
process versus someone, which isnothing wrong with that.
Right Versus someone like andthat's the extrovert, I think
it's important we say this theextrovert's going I'm an
extrovert, I'm going to talk, tothink.
An introvert is going to think,to talk and maybe think some
(35:49):
more, and then they're going totalk.
So yeah, I think that's good toclarify that.
But what I'm saying, you hearwhere I'm trying to push that a
little bit Sure, like what ifyeah, I'm hearing you say what
if every conversation doesn'thave to have resolve in the
moment?
Maybe there's value.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
And.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I'm not saying you can't get to it, sure, but maybe
there's even value in kind ofgiving that some time to
marinate for lack of a betterword.
I'm trying to think of you know, or to settle in to process
then to come back together maybe, and then maybe resolve would
(36:31):
come.
You would have a higher successrate with resolve because
you've placed a value on sometime, maybe even being given
that it might be important.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Is that what you're saying?
I think so.
I think that's an interestingconcept.
There's two things with that.
As we're closing today, there'stwo things.
One, in the class we had a lotof couples go.
Well, you know, they said theywere going to talk to me and
seven days later we stillhaven't.
That's too long.
You can't go that long.
I do think, on the flip side ofthat because we talked to some
(37:04):
other couples and we'refortunately, because you and I
have worked at it so hard we areat the place where we've
learned how to resolve quicker,because we learned each other's
language well, we ask goodquestions, we know how to
process in the moment.
(37:25):
We had a disagreement a coupledays ago about something and
within I don't know 10-15minutes, I was able to think.
We sat there for a secondtelevision.
You know.
We turned the television backon.
I had a second to process, pushthe mute button and I went hey,
I didn't see it from your pointof view.
I just jumped right in andexpect you to understand and see
(37:47):
everything the way I will, andwe resolved it and we went on.
Yeah, so, so there is thatplace where it seems like it
speeds up.
This is my, I'm getting mythought around this, so hang
with me.
It seems like it speeds up, butit actually because you've
learned how to slow down.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Oh, okay, wow, that's really good.
I like that does that?
Speaker 1 (38:10):
does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
yes, I'm glad you said that on the recording so we
will have this here, becausethat's a really that's really
good.
Yeah, yeah it's we're able tospeed up because we've learned
to slow down yeah, yeah, that'sreally good.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
That is really good.
I'm glad that we did recordthat Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
I think we can end on that.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
That's like a great ending note that just hit me,
that comes from a place waybeyond me.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Oh Well.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Okay, so go out and be good listeners, y'all.
Yeah, I wish you could be withus right now, because we're both
like man.
That's a wonderful thought.
That's our goal right as acouple To learn how to resolve
quicker yes, and deeper.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
But really feel, heard and seen.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Right.
I mean that's how I felt afterour discussion, our disagreement
, that we had Right, I felt, Ifelt I'd listen to you, you'd
listen to me, right, and we wenton.
Yeah, I haven't thought aboutit, or no Dwelt on it, or.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah, it's just great .
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
All right guys.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, that's good, so thanks for listening today.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
And every day that you do, we so appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
We will be back soon.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, exactly, and we may continue this all.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
All right, well, thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
See you again.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
You've been listening to Marriage and Us, with your
hosts, Rob and Robin Atkins.
Stay up to date by followingthem on Instagram at
marriageandus underscore podcastand on Twitter at marriageandus
.
Also hit the follow button soyou never miss an episode from
your favorite couple.
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