Navigating Divorce and Building Resilience Through Faith and Communication

Send us a text

Ever wondered how to navigate the turbulent waters of divorce while maintaining personal growth and resilience? Dr. Erica Holman, a compassionate sister from Dallas, Texas, joins us to share her profound journey through the complexities of divorce as a military spouse with a blended family. Her narrative is one of courage and transformation, as she opens up about the emotional and financial challenges that accompanied her path, including the impact on her children's perceptions of relationships. Erica's story offers a beacon of hope and strength, showing us how vulnerability can lead to healing and empowerment.

Communication lies at the core of our discussion, as we emphasize its critical importance in preventing emotional disconnection in relationships. Erica's insights on the emotional toll of divorce, alongside her battles with PTSD, provide a poignant reminder of the power of open dialogue and proactive communication. By exploring the profound impact of faith and personal relationships during her trials, we uncover how understanding and compassion can steer relationships away from the brink of divorce. We dive deep into the societal pressures and personal convictions that shape marriages, highlighting the need for discernment and personalized counsel in navigating the "four A's"—addiction, adultery, abuse, and abandonment.

Our heartfelt conversation also addresses the challenges of navigating divorce within the church community and the lack of support often faced by individuals. We call for better support systems and a compassionate, non-judgmental approach from church and community members. As we reflect on the pathways to building lasting love, we invite our listeners to engage with us and continue this dialogue, fostering healthier relationships through the spirit of compassion, understanding, and faith. Join us in celebrating resilience and the power of communication, as we embark on this journey to inspire lasting love and resilience in marriages everywhere.

Season 3 intro done by Carolena

Season 3 Outro done by Carolena

Watch the live show on Youtube.

Follow us on Facebook & Instagram at @marriageinreallifepodcast

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, welcome to Marriage in Real Life.
Yes, welcome, welcome.
Thank you for joining us.
Yes, yes, yes, thank you forjoining us tonight.
Oh boy, I'm excited abouttonight, are you?
I am All right, all right.
Well, my name is Eric Us, LadyP.
All right, all right, and we'reMarriage in Real Life Podcast.

(00:21):
Marriage in Real Life podcast.
One of the highlights is that Igot an email from last week and
out of they saidcongratulations, marriage in
real life.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
You are number 21 out of 40 married podcasts in the
United States.
The top 40.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, we're in the top 40 and we're number 21.
So that's a good thing, it's avery good thing considering.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's been a journey, but it's been well worth it,
right, right.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
So I want to say this Thank you to our audience,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Thank you guys so much for sticking in there with
us tuning in.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, so we give a shout out to our audience.
That's right, that's right.
I'm ready to get in the top.
Are you ready, all right?
Well, we have a, a, a dearsister of ours we don't want to
say friend.
We have a dear sister of ours,um, that we've known from many

(01:22):
years Right, we shared manymeals and everything like that
and so she is Dr Erica Holman.
You reminded me of that, yeah,dr Erica Holman, and she's.
You know, she lived, you know,through one of life's hardest
challenges, and that was divorce.

(01:44):
When it comes down to marriage,you know that's divorce and
what a thing about it is.
What I love about her is thatshe came out on the other side.
All right, we give a shout out,but there are so many people
that came out of divorce andwe're going to talk about I mean
, she's going to share thereason why, and you will see why
we, we are saying what we'resaying that she came out on the

(02:07):
other side, um, but we know what, sometimes with divorce, it,
man, it breaks you, it, it, youknow, it does that and does mess
up the kids and messed upeverything, especially this,
this type, what happened.
And so I am so proud of herthat she came out on the other
side.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy,you know, but she you that she
came out on the other side.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't easy,you know, but she, you know,
she came out.
So we're going to start withher story and we're going to get

(02:31):
it.
So we want to welcome Dr EricaHolman all the way from Dallas,
texas.
Hey, erica, how you doing?

Speaker 4 (02:43):
I'm'm good.
How about you guys?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
uh, we, we doing good , we, we you know, we, you know
we, we hanging in there yeah, wehanging in there.
Yeah, that's what we're doing.
We are hanging in there, graceof god.
Yeah, so how's the weather upthere at in um um dallas?
How's the weather up in thedallas?

Speaker 4 (03:01):
not as cold today.
A A lot of cloud cover.
They're talking rain the nextcouple of days, so not as cold.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, all right, I know it snowed up there oh
that's good weather there,that's good weather, that's good
weather, right, right, hey, Iwant to say hey, nikki, how you
doing?
Nikki, oliver from Tallahassee.
Hey, nikki, all right.
So, erica, we're going to getright into it, all right.

(03:30):
I don't know if we want to sayany names tonight.
We don't want to say any namesor whatever like that those who
know, they know.
But those who don't know, theydon't need to know the name.
But we know you, that's right,and so what we know, you, you
know, that's right, and so whatwe want to do, we just want to,

(03:54):
you know, start out by sharingyour personal story, you know.
So just just tell us about yourjourney.
You know where you're from, youknow things like that, and just
get into the journey.
So you, you got the flow.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
OK.
So basically I'm from journey.
So you, you got the flow Okay.
So basically, um, I'm fromTennessee.
Both me and my ex-husband werefrom Tennessee, uh, from the
same little small hometown, andgot married and basically life
happened literally, Um, you know, he uh served in the United
States Marine Corps, Um, so Iwas a military spouse.

(04:24):
So you have to add in thatdynamic as well.
We talk in marriage andsometimes you have to be giving
of yourself and some of thethings you want to do as a
spouse.
So I think that's relevant tomy story.
We stationed all over the worldfor lack of a better word East
Coast, West Coast, overseas,Been there, done that, we did

(04:46):
that.
In addition to that, we didhave a blended family.
We had a his, hers and ourstype situation.
That's relevant to my story aswell.
And in addition to a his, hersand ours, we had another his
outside the home to a his, hersand ours.

(05:08):
We had another, his outside ofthe home.
That's relevant as well when ittalks about the effects of
divorce on the children.
So that's why I mentioned that.
So basically, we were in thetwilight of our career and I say
our cause.
I served as well, even though Ididn't physically take the oath
, I just felt because of thesacrifices I made, I felt like I
was a Marine as well, and so,basically, we've got this family

(05:39):
, the kids.
At this point in our livesEveryone has graduated, left
home.
We're at the peak of life formost people's peak of life.
He's retired from.
You know, he retired from themilitary.
I had a good job and I hadalways said that once he retired
, I was going to focus on mycareer and he was going to be a

(06:02):
kept man.
That was my, that's what I, youknow, that's the conversations
as me and my girlfriends alwaystalk.
That's the pillow talk him andI always had.
When he retired, I would takecare of him.
So, long story short, we were.
After he retired, we stayed inCalifornia where we both served

(06:24):
at our local church.
We were youth pastors as wellas we were over the marriage
ministry, and I think that'sthat's important to talk about
too.
So we were part of the over themarriage ministry.
We actually started the smallgroup at our local church there

(06:47):
ministry, we actually startedthe small group at our local
church there.
And so one of the things I willsay he did suffer from mental
illness.
He had a traumatic brain injury, ptsd, bipolar all the things
you could possibly think of whenit comes to mental health he
suffered from.
But he was still able tomaintain a job.
You know, service country andas a civilian, like I said, hold

(07:10):
down a job.
And so, basically, whathappened, the long and short of
it all you know, when certainevents happen in your life, you
just never forget it becauseit's just burnt in your brain.
And this particular day was aWednesday night, like a

(07:31):
Wednesday night, bible study,and him and I would often take
turns teaching the teens inBible study, and so, on this
particular night, he was goingto take the teens and I was
going to.
Well, I had been charged withteaching Bible study in the main
sanctuary for the adults onthis particular night, and so he

(07:53):
prayed with me.
I went and taught in thesanctuary, church was over.
He asked how it went, all thethings we got in our car and we
drove home.
We lived about 45 minutes fromthe church and we are creatures
of habit.
There was nothing out of theordinary that had happened that
day.
We stopped at our Mexicanrestaurant, got our food to go,

(08:16):
went home, popped on the couch,watched Survivor.
Next morning it's a Thursdaymorning because I commuted to
work, I typically rode in avanpool, and this particular

(08:36):
morning he had told me he had ameeting and I said, well, I'm
going to drive myself to workbecause I can't trust that
you'll be out of your meeting bythe time the vanpool people
drop me off.
And he's like no, I'll get you.
But I insisted on drivingmyself and so he walked me to
the car and when we got to thecar I remember like it was
yesterday I said, oh, I forgotto take something out for dinner

(08:58):
and he said, babe, don't worryabout it, we'll figure out
supper when you get home.
We get home.
I was like, ok, he opened thecar door, gave me kids, told me
he loved me and I didn't see himfor almost five years after
that moment.
He didn't come home that day.
He did not come home that day.
So to say I was blindsided isliterally an understatement,

(09:23):
because I don't have thetestimony of a tumultuous
marriage.
I don't have the testimony ofbeing abused.
I don't have the testimony ofmy husband has some sort of
addiction.
I don't have that story.
So it's like I said to be tosay I was completely blindsided.
I was completely blindsided andthat's my story.

(09:45):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Whoa, that's, that's, that's, that's.
You know so.
So let me ask you.
So let me in.
I know you say you didn't, youknow you didn't.
You know the marriage is goodand everything like that.
But you know, looking back, youknow, in the marriage or in the
times coming up leading up towhen he left, were there early

(10:10):
signs that things was headed,you know towards what was going
on?
Were there anything that thatthat prompted that you know, to
him leaving, prior to himleaving, or what?

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Truthfully, eric, that's one of the things I have
struggled with, because I'vetried to go back and replay life
, like where did I miss it?
How did I miss it?
And the irony of all of this isabout maybe about two months
before he actually left.
Maybe about two months beforehe actually left, he was being

(10:46):
vetted through the Department ofState because he took a job as
a independent contractoroverseas and I remember he went
on the East Coast to some sortof training and he sent me a
text message and he pretty muchin essence said he really wanted

(11:08):
to focus on me and him.
It was time out for playinggames.
And I'm looking at the textlike who's been playing games?
I missed the memo or somethingbasically really just declaring
his just a recommitment to usyou know he said, it's just time
to just focus on us.
So, to be honest, eric, I cannotsit here and tell you or Patsy

(11:32):
that I saw red flags or warningsigns, because I literally did
not see it coming or see any ofit coming.
And one of the things, like Isaid, that's probably the
hardest thing I've struggledwith is just trying to figure
out how did I miss it.
Because one of the things thatmy spiritual mom told me during

(11:55):
this time she said MinisterErica, he was gone before he
physically left.
Now that messed me up, I'mgoing to be honest, it literally
messed me up.
I'm going to be honest, itliterally messed me up.
I'm like whoa, because in mymind I thought things were good

(12:15):
Now.
We had a marriage like everyoneelse, we had heated fellowship
and different things like that.
But I can sit here today withall integrity in me.
My children will tell you theynever heard me and him ever
argue.
Anything we did, we did behindclosed doors.
We didn't fight over money.
Our biggest arguments wasalways behind the kids, just
because of the blended familysituation.

(12:37):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, wow, wow.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah that.
All right.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Well, now let's get into the divorce thing okay, but
you know, a lot of times, um,women are blindsided a lot of
times because of thecommunication, the lack of
communication men don't like toshare, they don't like to open
up and say what's really goingon and how they really feel.
So we assume that everything isokay when in fact it really

(13:08):
ain't.
And then that makes us thinkwell, wait a minute.
Like Erica said, did I misssomething here?
Because, hmm, I don't recallthis, or I don't recall that
what happened?
And just the fact that someonewould say they're gone long
before they leave.
That's a true statement, I'veseen it a lot.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
So communication, I mean I mean you always bring it
up by communication is the keyand I think, as you stated, you
know many times before and Ithink I've stated is that men,
we need to communicate what'sgoing on with us, Right, we need
to communicate.
If there's something mentallygoing on and and we're checking

(13:53):
out or whatever, we need to sitdown.
You know I think we talkedabout it on one podcast is
having hard discussions.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I think it was a season, the end of season one.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
We got.
You have to have harddiscussions.
If you're not feeling this Imean, I'm talking about men and
women If you're not feeling thisand you're not you know I'm not
feeling this and I'm notfeeling that, I'm feeling this
such a way we have to sit downand have hard discussions,
because if you don't have harddiscussions, it may come out to
how Erica is.

(14:27):
You know what I mean, right?
Because if, like her spiritualmom said that he was gone
mentally before he was gonephysically, that means he had
been dealing with something inhis mind, but he didn't come and
tell Erica.
You know what I need to talk toyou.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Right, I'm going through something, yes, right.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm saying I talk, I need to talk to you, I'm going
through something so you canhelp me.
Right, you know?
So, he, he, he should have, youknow, he should have done that
to sit down and communicate withher and say this is what's
going on and not just leave.
You know that's very hard.
That's very hard.
So communication is a key.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
It's definitely a key and I'll state my life on it.
If you don't talk to me, that'sone gift that God does not give
us, and that's the gift ofreading each other's mind.
If you don't tell me, I don'tknow, I can't crack open your
skull and read it.
If you don't tell me I do notknow and I'm not going to try

(15:31):
and figure it out, becausethat's going to drive me crazy
trying to figure out what'swrong.
So yeah, I totally get that andsometimes you know, when you
think, like she said, I'm goingto hold on to that when they've
already checked out.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Gone.
So we would say you know,people may say, well, why y'all
talking about divorce tonight?
I'm trying to.
I think we are saying that itis a reality, Divorce is a
reality, but divorce doesn'thave to be your reality.
Amen, Right, I got to give yousome claps on that, Right,
Divorce does not have to be yourreality because somebody else

(16:12):
maybe we had the poll tonight ofhow many people know people
that know of divorce.
You know, and let me see what'sthat poll?
We had 92%, 92% of 12 votes saythey know somebody who's been
through divorce.
But that doesn't necessarilymean that you got to go through
it.
Right, you got to make surethat you communicate.

(16:33):
You got to make sure you knowthat communication.
You got to make sure you dothat so you won't go through.
And I just wanted to tonight tojust say give you, you know, a
horror about you, you know, soyou can't.
You say, man, I don't want togo through that.
Maybe I don't want to gothrough that.
You know what I mean.
It's not worth yeah, it's notworth it to go through that.
So nuggets, yeah, just fornuggets, right.

(16:55):
So, erica, how?
So in this, in the in thedivorce, right in the in the
divorce, what are?
Some emotional and financialimpact that affects you and even
the children because of thedivorce?

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Well, I would say I was actually diagnosed with PTSD
as a result of my divorce, whoa.
Actually diagnosed with PTSD asa result of my divorce, whoa?
Because I literally felt like Iwas in a snow globe.
You know how a snow globe whenyou shake it and the snow just
falls.
I felt that was my life at onetime.

(17:39):
It felt like everything aroundme was falling apart because I
built my entire life behind oron I do.
This man promised me foreverand I built my life on this.

(18:02):
My spirit was crushed.
I was angry with God.
And then what it did to mydaughter when I look at the
impact it has had on her morethan anybody, it makes me mad.
I'm being honest.
Makes me mad, makes me angryhonest.

(18:23):
It makes me mad it makes meangry, because she was a true
daddy's girl, oh yes, and when Ilook at my boys and to hear

(18:48):
their response and the lack ofrespect, that decision that he
made, that lack of respect thatthey instantly had for him, it
broke my heart for him, becausetheir words to me was everything
that he told us, as men, to notdo, he did.
So, as a mom, I want to makesure my kids are okay, but then
it's happening to me, so Ireally didn't have time to how

(19:10):
do I focus on me and try to makesure my kids are good?
Now the you know, some peoplewould say well, erica, your kids
are grown, but our kids arestill our kids and we often lose
sight of that.
Oh, because our kids reach acertain age, they are still our
kids and we often lose sight ofthat.
Because our kids reach acertain age, they are still our
children and they still haveemotions and things like that,

(19:31):
as if they were 3 or 5 or 10 or13.
So what I've seen the impactthat it's had on the family
emotionally.
It messed us all up.
It messed us all up in someshape, form or fashion.
And when I look at the oldest, Isee him following in his
father's footsteps.
He's a runner, he's a runner.

(19:53):
I look at my daughter and shehas no faith in anything anybody
says, especially when it comesto a man Wow, Wow, wow.
And then that middle one ofmine blesses hard.
He just wants the kumbaya andeverybody be happy, you know.

(20:20):
And then my bonus daughter.
There's just no relationshipthere.
And she is closer with me thanshe is with him and that's her
blood.
I'm not so that impact myyoungest daughter.
She's been in therapy.
She was in therapy for aboutthree years.

(20:44):
I was in therapy for aboutthree years.
I was in therapy.
Sometimes we need aprescription and a scripture.
I always say a prescription.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
A prescription.
All right, I like that.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
Sometimes it's needful and necessary.
So that's the impact that ithad on us emotionally Some days
I didn't know if I was coming orgoing.
Oftentimes, like I said, justbeing transparent with you guys,
I felt like I had committedemotional suicide wow, oh, man,

(21:16):
you know.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
So that's the emotional, that's man, and for
years.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
It doesn't go away.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
It just don't go away yeah, yeah, it just don't go
away.
Wow, wow, I'm so sorry to hearthat.
You know what, what?
So that's the emotional that ithad on you and, uh, your kids.
What about the financial impact?

Speaker 4 (21:42):
oh, lord, have Lord, have mercy.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
All right.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
The God be the glory you come out on the other side.
Really.
So we literally had fourpaychecks coming to that house.
He was getting his paycheckfrom his job, his disability and
his retirement, and then mine.
We always ran our household onone bank account.

(22:10):
We didn't have separateaccounts.
We didn't do anything.
We were on the 10-10-80 plan10% tithes, 10% for ourselves
and the other 90 was to paybills.
And he always said that wecan't do good with the other 90.
I mean the other 80.
I'm sorry, 80, not 90.

(22:30):
Then we got a problem.
So 10, 10, 80 plan.
And so when he left, of course Iattributed to his mental health
thinking he, because he hadsuffered from short-term memory,
I just thought he just couldn'tfind his way home.
And after he'd been gone about24 hours I know it's nothing but
the spirit told me check thebank account, maybe he's just

(22:52):
card somewhere or something likethat y'all.
I didn't have 500 in the bankand we were doing the dave
ramsey.
Um, we had just done thefinancial peace thing at church,
probably two months prior.
So we were on the envelopesystem and so we were the, we

(23:13):
were putting money in envelopesand things like that.
Gone, that was gone.
I didn't have $500.
Now I just told you we had fourincomes.
Three of those belong to him.
Initially I would say the first.
I'm going to give him sixmonths.

(23:34):
He continued making sure tobill.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
I had money for bills and stuff like that, but no
extra, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
He was sending money, but after six months he decided
he no longer had any financialresponsibility or obligations in
California because he wasn'tthere.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Y'all were still married, though, right, y'all
were still married.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
We were still married and he stopped sending money
for bills.
He changed his direct depositall the things, his direct
deposit, all the things.
So on paper, on paper.
I probably should have lost ourhouse.

(24:13):
I probably should have lost mycar because prior to this, he
left in July and mother said hejust bought me a brand new car,
brand spanking new car.
So I had this car note.
I had rent in California, I hadelectric in California Southern

(24:34):
California, by the way, in thedesert Not to mention just our
bills.
And I hadn't even mentioned.
I haven't even had groceriesyet and all I had was my income.
And did I mention I had amortgage in Tennessee as well?
So I'll be real transparent.

(24:56):
My credit score went fromprobably high 700s to about 400
because I had to make a decision.
Probably high 700s to about 400.
Because I had to make adecision.
Do I worry about credit cardsor do I worry about the
necessities?
Necessities is rent, electric,my car payment, car insurance.

(25:24):
Literally, I had to make adecision.
I couldn't worry about creditcards, I couldn't worry about, I
just couldn't.
But to god be the glory, I'mnot gonna say no, like, like, oh
, what was me?
I bought a house on my own.
You know what?
I mean right, right I say thatjust to just to encourage
someone else.

(25:44):
It may look bad, it may feelbad, it hurts like crazy.
You don't understand it.
Oh, let me, let me back up,because I will be doing a
disservice to the God I serve,and I paid my tithes.
I paid my tithes.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
So you're saying, through all of this, he's gone.
You're barely getting by.
You got all.
Your credit score is 700, godown to 400, you still gave God
what was due to him.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
I had to.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
All right.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
And that was something I say this with every
fiber in my being that wassomething I knew I could not
waver about and because of that,because of that, like I just
told you on paper I don't knowhow I made it, but I never

(26:45):
missed a rent payment.
But I never missed a rentpayment.
I never missed a mortgagepayment.
I never missed a car note Inever.
I maybe ate good all the timein California.
I was still able to travel.
But and I know it's because youcan't be God given you, take

(27:06):
care of the kingdom, he willtake care of you.
And when I said he sustained me, you know I, you, you've always
heard, you've heard me say thisbefore.
It's easy to talk about Godbeing a provider when you have a
job and an income coming in yes, sir but when you lose that job
, is he still your provider?

(27:28):
And although I didn't lose myjob, I lost a source of income.
I mean a resource of incomebecause he was my true source.
And it just goes without sayingyou can't be God given when it
comes to that type.
Can't be God given when itcomes to that type.
You just can't.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Now Ferg, um, he, I mean, he's been saying things um
throughout and you know, uh,but this last one, when we
talked about the kids and theemotional things with the kids
and emotion with you, um, hesays this shouldn't make spouses
look at each other and theirfamily and say that we need to
recommit to each other, asdivorce affects way more than

(28:12):
just you two.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
And what you think.
And I think a lot of timespeople don't realize that.
And you know, as an educator, Isee it in the classroom, you
know.
I see it in the hallwayclassroom, you know, I see it in
the hallway.
It affects everybody in so manydifferent, like Erica said, in
so many different avenues androutes that we so busy trying to
focus and pull ourselvestogether, we forget what you
know.

(28:33):
Okay, let me check on Junior,let me see what baby girl going
through, because it's trying topull everything together and,
plus, keep yourself sane.
So it does affect.
I totally agree with that, fred.
Affect everything You're comingyourself sane.
So it does affect.
I totally agree with that.
It affects everything you'recoming and going.
So, like Erica said, sometimesshe didn't know she was coming
and going.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
Well, and I would add as well I'm going to use us as
an example Just us being friendsand the closeness that we all
shared, being transparent.
It was hard watching you guysdo family things, and my family

(29:12):
was broken Because we were apart of it.
Right.
And then it was gone, and so Ifound myself pulling back,
distancing myself, not becauseyou had done anything, but the

(29:33):
world that I was in and hadcreated or thought was there.
It no longer looked the same,and that's why I say divorce is
so much bigger than the twoindividuals.
You guys never had to pick aside or anything like that.
You know what I mean, becausehe kind of picked the side for
you, for lack of a better word.
But I struggled with that.

(29:55):
I, when I say struggle, andit's still hard for me sometimes
to be around um couples orfamilies, because my family is
so fractured, it's so fractured,and so when it comes time for
the holidays, you know again, mykids are not babies, they're
adults, but them having todecide.

(30:18):
Do we call our dad, do weinclude him in that?
Do we call our?
dad, do we include him in that?
Then the grandbabies you knowwhat does that look like.
And so it's important thatpeople not just look at
themselves and how a divorcedecision or conversation is so

(30:39):
much bigger than.
Oh, I don't like you today andI just don't want to do this.
Just throw my hands up and I'lljust do a shameless plug.
You know a book that I wasreading by Miles Monroe.
It's called Single, married,separated and Life After Divorce
, and one of the things hetalked about in the book is,

(31:00):
when you buy something, amanufacturer generally issues
warranties with their product,right.
And then a warranty reallyguarantees that the manufacturer
will take care of the productif there's some sort of defect.
God is a manufacturer ofmarriage, right, right.

(31:23):
So with that warranty it willbe honored free of charge, at no
cost to the consumer, if thereare two conditions met, right.
The first condition you can'ttake it, the product, to an
unauthorized source for repairs.

(31:44):
Oh, right Right.
Two, two you can't try to fix ityourself, and that's where the
problem comes in.
When it comes to marriage.
We go to unauthorized resourcesfor repair Mm, hmm.
And then we try to fix itourselves, but we have the

(32:09):
expectation that themanufacturer is going to
guarantee success.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Wow, wow, that's deep .
John Russell says.
I wanted to let you know, erica, I don't know if you are
reading things, but it saysthank you for sharing your
vulnerability with us.
Although you mentioned earlieryou didn't have a specific
testimony, I believe what youjust shared is a testimony, so

(32:41):
just wanted to let you know that.
And you know what you just said.
And again, we talked about howit affects the kids.
You just mentioned how itaffects your friends.
Right, because I'm going to behonest, because, since we've

(33:02):
been transparent, it was like,okay, what, how do we function?
Yeah, what, how do we function?
Yeah, yeah, how, what did we do?
You know we weren't, you knowwe weren't part of it.
And how do we function asfriends, knowing that you know
that Ferg had lost Donna?
Right, and I know Ferg isonline and Ferg had lost Donna.

(33:27):
What was going on with you andthen me and Patsy is it's like
you know we're still here and soto us it's like how do we
handle all of this?
I don't know about you, babe,but that's how I feel.
Yeah.
I don't know.
You know you can say how youfelt.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
I don't know, you're just being quiet, but you can
say it, I'm not being quiet, I'mjust like well, first of all, I
felt, like you know, we wereall family.
You know, and I tell people allthe time, like you know, we
became family.
We were aunties to each other'schildren, we were uncles to
each other's children.

(34:07):
We had children the same age.
They grew, they grew together,we fellowshiped, we did
everything and when thishappened, it was like whoa and
like Erica was blindsided me andDonna was like well, what we
really.
You know, I was really at aloss of words, as I am still at
a loss of words that she's nolonger with us, but it was

(34:31):
mind-blowing and I did feel somesort of way.
I can't express how I felt then.
My heart was broken, my heartwas broken for my friend and I
didn't know how to support, justbe that ear.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Right, right, anytime you need me.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
But it affected all of us Definitely because it was
affecting her and them, ournephews and our nieces.
So it was a lot to you know,and I was praying night and day.
I was like, oh boy, this is notgood.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
So it affects you and your husband, it affects the
children, it affects your family.
I mean your friends, right,because, depending on what we
know, this situation, so we knowwe want, we want to choose
another side, right, but youknow.
But depending on the you knowyou're getting divorced, you

(35:30):
have friends that might chooseone side or the other.
Yeah, right, but it also affectsyour church yes so, erica, how
did it affect your church withthat?
Because both of y'all wasministers in the church, right?
Uh, youth pastors andeverything.
So how did that affect youraffect your church?

(35:51):
Did he call back to the churchand say what was going on, or
how did that affect that?

Speaker 4 (35:56):
So no, he, um, my pastors were probably the first
people I called, uh, when Irealized he was gone.
And it just we happened.
We had convocation that startedthat Thursday night.
He was scheduled to teach.
I had just literally had justhad surgery to recover from

(36:18):
surgery and I stepped in, taughthis class.
I didn't, I don't think anybodyknew other than my pastors that
he was gone.
I didn't tell anybody.
I never really told anybodylike what happened.
I think they just at some pointjust figured it out, the
members.
But for me I never stoppedserving.

(36:42):
When I say I never stoppedserving.
I did not stop serving.
He never reached back out tothem.
They made attempts to contacthim.
He was unresponsive and I willsay and I'm not trying to be
petty or anything like that buthe continued to operate in the

(37:06):
office of minister, preachingand all the things that he was
doing in the office of minister,preaching and all the things
that he was doing.
And I did reach out to him and Itold him I'm not reaching out
to you as your wife, I'mreaching out to you as your
sister in Christ.
You can't do this, you're outof pocket, you're out of order.

(37:27):
You can't do this.
There's some things you got towork on, you know.
You got to get somewhere andsit down.
He told me don't worry about it, don't worry about him.
So, but no, he continued tooperate in his quote unquote
call.
But as for me, I continue toserve and I thank God I had the
support of my pastors Because Ihad every reason and when in my

(37:50):
mind I had every reason to quit,like literally I had every like
.
I'm not doing this, you know.
But I never stopped serving andI, and I believe again.
To God be the glory.
It was my faith.
It was my faith in God.
And I remember, when I realizedhe wasn't coming home, I was

(38:12):
laying prostrate in my livingroom floor, literally, not
figuratively, literally justcrying out to God.
And I remember telling God ifthis is your will, I still give
you a yes.
I said God, all I ask, all I ask, god is I don't want to feel
lonely, but, god, I give you ayes.

(38:33):
Remember, like it was yesterdayRemember like it was yesterday
and he honored it.
When I say he honored it, hehonored it, he honored it.
It was some rough days, meaninglike mentally, but as far as
feeling lonely and all that.
God knew what I needed, becausethat's when little Giovanni and

(38:56):
little Ezra came in my life andyou know the Marines that were
there, that you know connectedwith me, and they had no idea
that my life, I always say it,was like a snow globe and
everything was just fallingaround me and these folks came
in and loved on me and when theyrealized what I was dealing
with and going through, theirlook they're looking at me like

(39:20):
wait what had no idea.
And I learned through all thatwhat God showed me, that the
pain that I went through was notfor me, it was for somebody
else I won't, you know, sharetheir business.
But the women that God wassending my way and I ministered

(39:41):
to them about their marriagesand I'm seeing God restore and
reconcile and heal relationshipsand I'm like, ok, really You're
doing that for them.
She don't even really want him,she don't want to do right, but
I'm seeing God restore, I'mseeing him reconcile.

(40:03):
And I was angry, patsy, I wasso angry with God.
Thank God I walked it out inintegrity that I didn't believe
on those young women.
But to see those marriageshealed and restored and
different things like that, Igive all praise and honor to God
.
And it took me a while torealize that the things that we

(40:24):
go through oftentimes is not forourselves and it did not mean
that the plans that God had formy marriage, that the prophetic
words that were spoken over us,it wasn't that God lied, but
God's not going to cross thethreshold of human
responsibility.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Talk to us.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
If he did not want to be married or be in a marriage,
it wasn't going to happen.
I don't care how many times thebishop prayed y'all prayed, I
prayed.
If that's not what he wanted,it wasn't going to happen.
And that was a hard pill for meto swallow and really mature

(41:04):
and understand that we cannotpray against someone's own will.
They have to surrender theirwill and no matter how bad, I
wanted my marriage to berestored, reconciled and healed.
If that's not what my husbandwanted, it wasn't going to
happen and a lot of people don'tunderstand it.

(41:25):
It's a growth you have to growinto that spiritually.
You have to grow into that toreally understand the heaviness
and the burden of that.
But it just wasn't going tohappen.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And when I realized that it was just like okay, well
, I need to change my prayerokay so I want to ask you this,
because me and pastor we often,when when couples are going
through something and we'recounseling, we often ask this
question.
And I want to ask you thisquestion from your own personal

(42:00):
thing Do you believe that yourex-husband had a little, just a
little bit of love for you?
And I'm talking about marriedlove.
And I'm not saying, hey, you'rethe mother of my kids, I love
you.
I'm saying, does you, do youthink that he had a little bit

(42:20):
of love for you?
Yeah.
So in the followup, do you thinkthat, if you do, if both of you
all would have went tocounseling, do you think there
could have been reconciliationor anything like that?

Speaker 4 (42:37):
When he first left, absolutely, but as time went on,
I guess I shouldn't leave thispart of the story out.
He left in 2015.
I filed for divorce in 2015.
I filed for divorce in 2017.
Our divorce was not final until2022.

(42:58):
Five years.
So the reason for the delay inme filing was being obedient to
God.
He hadn't released me from mymarriage, he hadn't.
And the word that he showed me,he was given time and space for

(43:21):
him to come back.
And in my mind I'm saying, comeback.
Oh, I ain't no coming back, youknow, because at this point
he's been gone a little while.
You know, at this point it'sbeen like a year.
So, yeah, and so I rememberbeing when, when, just during my
devotion time, and when godtold me I was released, I filed

(43:47):
for marriage, and I mean filedfor divorce, and didn't look
back did you have a question,babe?

Speaker 1 (43:54):
you was getting ready to say something.
I cut you up.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I lost the train of thought.
When do you think is the righttime?
When do you think?
When do you think like enoughis enough?

Speaker 4 (44:06):
well, to me it's you got the one thing I tell people,
even that I mentor.
Now, only the individual personknows when enough is enough,
because my barometer, how Imeasure enough, may not be the
same measurement that you use.
You know when enough is enough.
I believe in the sanctity ofmarriage, but when it comes to,

(44:29):
I say, the four A's addiction,adultery, abuse and abandonment
only that individual knows whenenough is enough.
But you got to have to me, yougot to be in relationship and
fellowship with God for that andfellowship with God for that.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
I have another question before you go to the
conference.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
No, I'm just talking, I'm doing the four A's, that's
good.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Hey, the four A's, I'm like that's good, eric, you
always make me lose my thought.
Okay so, oh, okay, this is it.
You know, like growing up inthe church we've always said, oh
, you got to prepare yourselffor marriage.
You know that you're growing upas a young girl and you got to
prepare yourself for marriage.
You know you got to get married, you got to have some babies,

(45:20):
you got to raise them up, yougot to be a good wife, you got
to be a submissive wife and allthat wonderful stuff they tell
you.
But when you start going throughthings in your marriage and you
go to the church and you havesome of them that say, well,
pray about it.
What would be your advice to ayoung person that's going
through something similar?

(45:41):
She wants to get out, but shedon't want to because she stood
before God in the church.
She feel like she should stickaround.
If you go to the church and saywhat's going on, she gets the
whole.
You know, just pray for me,we'll put his name on the prayer
list, or we'll put her name onthe prayer list, however it goes
.
So what would be your advicefor some young woman that find

(46:02):
herself in that situation?

Speaker 4 (46:05):
So I'm just going to be Erica here, okay.
So in a situation like that,I've got to know where they are
spiritually, because whathappens is people have their own
ideologies of this pictureperfect marriage and what it
should look like, versus whathow God designed marriage to be,

(46:28):
what, how God designed marriageto be.
That's like if I make a cakeand I put too much bacon powder
in it, all right and the cake itdoesn't turn out right.
Do I blame the point, the pan?
Do I blame the oven?
There's nothing wrong with thebacon powder.
There's nothing wrong with thebutter.

(46:49):
There's nothing wrong with thesugar.
It's the ingredients.
You see what I'm saying, yeah,so sometimes the ingredients,
sometimes the ingredients arewrong, and what I mean by that
is when you're dealing withindividuals, you got to look at
what their makeup is, what theirconvictions are.
So I would have to know alittle bit more about the

(47:12):
individual before I gave counsel, because you got to know what
their convictions are, whattheir moral compass is looking
like, what their relationshipwith God is, what their
understanding of what marriageis designed to be, as opposed to
how the world has definedmarriage, because if a young
lady is in an abusive marriageor relationship.

(47:32):
That's a different conversation.
And I will say this his mentalhealth was wearing on me before
he left, I'll be honest.
It was wearing on me becausewhen he would call me, I would
see his name and picture in myphone.
On me because when he wouldcall me, I would see his name

(47:53):
and picture in my phone and itwould give me anxiety because I
never knew what was on the otherside.
I say that to say this.
It was I wanted to check out,like for real, like I didn't
have enough, because if hedoesn't think enough of himself
to go get some help, I can't dothis.
And I went to my pastor andsaid, hey, I can't do this.
And I went to my pastor andsaid, hey, I can't do this.
Going back to your question,your question, patsy pastor may

(48:16):
look me dead in my face and shesaid these words.
She said, minister Erica, he'ssick.
She said he's sick.
She said if he was diagnosedwith cancer, you wouldn't leave
him.
What makes this any different?
So, going back to your question, it would.

(48:37):
There would be so much morethat would play into what the
response is, and a lot of timeswe're so quick to give a cookie
cutter response.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
But we need to know what we're really working with
okay, okay, yeah, if that makesany sense, it does, absolutely
it does.
I think a lot of times peopledon't want to embarrass
themselves, or they don't wantto shame the church, or they
don't want to go to them andthey don't want to, you know, be
like, well, you know, I'm, I'm,I'm divorcing him, but first of

(49:05):
all, you know you gottaanything.
So I always tell women when I'mtalking to them or just in
general, if somebody come to youand they tell you something,
you go to the Lord, because ifit's going to line up, if it
don't line up, then it's takewhat I have to say, spit out the
bones or whatever.
You know it's going to line up.

(49:26):
If somebody come to you andsomebody say something to you,
it's going to line up with theWord of God if you take it to
the Lord in prayer.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
So you have to be careful Not to cut y'all past,
but even in that we have to becareful, taking one principle
that's in the Word and applyingit to every situation.
Yes, yes, because we take thatWord Because I'm going to be
honest.
When I first was going throughthis divorce and life was

(49:56):
happening, I went to the word tosee what it said about divorce
and had I not done a deeper divein the word and spent time with
God, I would have been led tobelieve that I can't get
remarried because if I getremarried I'm committing
adultery.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Hello.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
That's that part.
But you, but you still sayingso, even in that you have to be
careful to not take a principleor command and apply to every
situation.
That's good, right there.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah that's good right there.
Yeah, that's good, that's good.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
You know, I didn't know Abraham remarried.
Did y'all know that?
Yeah.
Yeah, and had six more kids.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yes, yes, I mean I'm going.
Matter of fact, that says I'mgoing through the Bible in a day
on praycom, and it was talkingabout how he remarried.
Oh, you want to talk aboutAbraham and his son, how they
were just both alike.
You know telling Bob you know,but anyway, all right, all right
.
So what lessons from yourexperience could help other

(50:59):
couples avoid divorce?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Patsy said it best communication, because the first
conversation I had with him.
This is after he'd been goneabout 24 hours.
He finally called me and hiswords to me was cause he?
He called and answered for I'mlike where are you?
Cause I'm thinking somethinghas happened.
He says, eric, I don't want todo this.

(51:24):
He says you're a good woman andyou're going to find a man
that's going to love you the wayyou deserve.
I don't want another man.
You're my husband but what stuckout is he said I don't want to
do this.
Had he sat me down and we had aconversation, all this other

(51:47):
stuff could have been avoidedyou with the kids and all that
but in the moment you don'tthink like that.
So the the lesson iscommunicating even with I
probably should have been moreinvolved with his mental health.
So, as spouses, when we knowthey're going through something,
you don't have to be all in abusiness but just go and say how

(52:11):
can I help?
How can I help Versus giving,telling them what they need to
be doing?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Y'all you know, you need to go there.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
No, how can I help?
Because when it came to hismental health, I was just over
like, look, you didn't go gotalk to your doctor about this
Cause.
This up and down is just toomuch, but communicate,
communicate about everything,everything yeah, yeah you got a
question in the in the chat.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
In the chat, um from first is when um.
Why do you think he didn't?
Why do you think he didn't filefor divorce?

Speaker 4 (52:52):
You know, I wonder that myself, because I went
through three sets of processservice trying to get him served
, trying to get him to court torelease, you know, just to end
it.
So I don't know why he didn'tfile.
And even after I filed, he, hebought me tooth and nail and we

(53:14):
didn't have kids to fight over,we had a house, but we weren't
even fighting over the house, hejust so why he didn't file?
I wish he would have told methat I don't know, would have
told me that I don't know.

(53:34):
Wow, I anticipated it.
I did anticipate it, but he hadbeen gone two years and I was
just like, okay, god, you know,I, I can't sit and just wait,
and a lot of people do that.
But I wasn't doing that becauseI know that's not what god had
for me.
Yeah, so let Mm, hmm.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah.
So let me ask you this what,what daily habits that you think
are practices, could helpcouples reconnect prior to you
know that?
That dreaded talk of divorce.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
So I think it's important that this you know
praying together, becauseDeborah and I did pray together
all the time.
We had that prayer lifetogether.
But aside from that, somepeople are like, well, it ain't
that deep, you got to date, gotto have your date nights.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
All right now.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
Got to have your date nights and the things that you
do to get a person are thethings you're going to do to
kind of keep them.
But with that being said, youalso have to give space, allow
the other person to evolve.
I used to tell women I mentorall the time.
My husband was married to fourdifferent women.
They like wait what?
Because when I was in my teensI was a person.

(54:40):
When I was in my twenties, Iwas a different person.
When I hit them thirties, I wassomebody else.
Then when I hit them forts, Iwas somebody else.
Then when I hit them 40s, I wassomebody else.
He didn't get me in my 50s, sohe didn't get that part of me.
But the daily thing is in thecommunication.
You should know your spousebetter than anybody.

(55:02):
When something is off, if don'tnobody know it, you know it.
And what we tend to tend to do.
Oh, he got a mood or she's in amood today.
Let them have their space.
There's a time and space to letthem have their space, but you
got to be their safe space too.
Hey, I notice you know you'renot yourself.

(55:25):
Is everything?
Okay, you know that thing, butit goes back to everything.
Okay, you know that thing.
But it goes back to those dailypractices or habits of checking
in with each other, not being,oh, let me check your phone, no,
just checking in, just checkingin.
And you know one of the thingsthat we did, even in our
marriage group, we did.
You know how some jobs havevisions.

(55:48):
As a couple.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
What's your vision for your marriage?
Hey, the reason why I laugh.
I want to ask you this have youbeen watching our podcast?

Speaker 4 (56:02):
some of them but, I'll be honest, it's been hard
to watch some of them because Idon't have that right, so you're
talking the same things.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
We've been talking about vision, yeah, about, you
know, communication about,especially when you say date
night, because we talk aboutdate night all the time, you
know, and I just wanted peopleto know that we haven't we
haven't had no conversationabout this conversation, right,

(56:32):
and you haven't been watchingbecause, like you said, you know
the time difference and allthat kind of stuff that calls on
it.
So I just want the people tohear from a person that's been
divorced, is that you need to dothese things to try to avoid
divorce, right?
so they just they just don'tthink that me and Pastor just
talking out the side of our neckyou need to do these things to

(56:52):
try to avoid divorce, right?

Speaker 2 (56:53):
So they just, they just don't think that me and
Pastor just talking out the sideof our neck, it's true, and
also some of this stuff that yousaid we've shared in our
marriage, in our marriageretreat.
So it's like really so, yeah,definitely, and yeah.
And I, and like we say, thebottom line is you know that
communication, remember.
I have this thing where I tellthe people at the retreat what

(57:15):
was it that made you fall inlove?
And they'd be like, oh, youknow what, he was checking me
out or whatever.
And I'm like so when thingsstart getting rough and y'all
bumming, remember that it youknow, and then go on a date,
communicate.
Remember mine, remember why youfell in love and why you want
to stay out of the torment ofseparating and breaking your

(57:35):
family apart.
Remember that thing, and if youcan get back to that thing,
everything else will fall inline.
But you have to have God in thecenter of everything.
Let me tell you something thereis no way in this time and day
that anybody's going to make itwithout God in the center of it.
He has to be in the center ofit, has to be focused, you know.

(57:56):
So, yeah, I appreciate you, sis.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
We got two questions here.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
We got two questions.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Yeah, yeah, we got one here from um, from Nicole
Richards.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
She says Erica, do you see yourself getting married
?

Speaker 4 (58:14):
again, I'm not opposed to it, but and however,
today I would say no, justbecause the dating pool, I mean.
I'm just being transparentbecause I'm going to do it God's
way, because if I do it anyother way, I'm going to be right

(58:37):
where I'm at right now and I'mnot going back down this road
but I'm not opposed.
I'm not opposed to it, but it'sgoing to have to be from God,
cause I'm going to only do itGod's way.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Okay, all right, all right.
All right, all right.
Malika has a question.
You want to read that one.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Okay.
Malika says did you ever haveto deal with anyone not
supporting you through theprocess?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Yeah, how did you handle that.

Speaker 4 (59:13):
It was hurtful and thinking about it now it's
really emotional because people,you think that our family
co-signing the foolishness thathe was doing and it's like
really the truth is notdetermined by how many people
believe it.
I'm just going to say that Okay.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Can you say that again?

Speaker 4 (59:36):
The truth is not determined by how many people
believe it.
And.
I've never asked anybody to takesides.
But when you mess with my kidsand then we're talking about the
supporting, because it was morethan just supporting me, it's
been supportive of my children,right, right, and that's where I
didn't see the support, I wasgoing to be okay, but it was my

(59:59):
kids.
It was my kids that I felt wereforgotten about.
Mm, mm, if I'm being totaltransparent, it was my kids that
was really forgotten about.
If I'm being total transparent,it was my kids that was really
forgotten about, especially mybaby girl, especially my baby
girl.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Yeah, yeah, cause even now, when you say that he
doesn't contact, I was like,well, you know that's, that was
his baby girl.
Now that, now you know that washis baby girl.
Now that, now you know.
So, wow, ferg wants to say hesaid this.

(01:00:37):
He says that we need to, asmarriage couples, have a
quarterly check-in on therelationship and we ask how
things are going, what might beirking you, what you don't like,
what we can do better.
You know I like that quarterlycheck-in, I would go to say
maybe almost monthly.

(01:00:58):
You just check, I mean it just,if you just make it a, you know
, a daily, daily habit or aweekly habit to just ask you
know how, how are things going.
Or you know, we all just askyou know how how are things
going.
Or you know we, I, you know,you know, uh, and and, and, and,
just do that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
And you know, yeah, you and I, I agree with that,
because I, um, this morning, I Iusually kiss you goodbye before
I head out the door, but Ikissed you.
I actually kissed you to wakeyou up.
So when I kissed you on yourcheek, I was like, hey, I'm not
going to work today, I'm takinga meal today.
You was like, okay, you wentback to sleep, I went to the
living room, whatever, but thefirst thing you said to me was

(01:01:41):
baby you okay, you need anything.
You know not, had you been likeyeah, she got something going on
.
She got something going on inher head and I'm going to go on
about my business and stay awayfrom there.
I would have felt like youdidn't care.
Eventually, I would have sharedwith you what was going on, but
I just really needed to regroupand refocus on things.
It's the beginning of the yearand I'm always overwhelmed at

(01:02:03):
the beginning of the year withso many different emotions and
things going on in my head.
We even talk about this wholemenopause thing driving me
insane, and I think that has alot to do with it because it's
driving me mad.
But, um, and I appreciate thatand and, like you were saying,
yeah, and that quarterlycheck-in, that monthly check-in,

(01:02:23):
just check in, just check incheck in because you never know
what that individual may begoing through emotionally.
You know, I'm trying to nothave this whole anxiety thing
going on because I do not wantto take that medicine again,
that's a switch in a deep calmyou know.
But I did have a good talk, youknow, with my, with my doctor,

(01:02:44):
who is also a therapist, and andI feel a little better and I'm
ready to take the next step.
Take the next step, so Iappreciate that and it's so
important y'all that community,when I tell you over and over
again the communication may notalways go the way you want it,
but at least it's out on thetable, yeah, and you ain't
holding it in, so you can alwaysgo back and revisit the topic,

(01:03:06):
right?

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
But you have to handle it.
Yeah, I know my best friendfrom along is Vince Barnes.
Hey, vince Is on and I wantedto know if he's still on.
I want to give him a littlechance.
We had a little conversationtoday and he's going through
something and you hit one of thefour a's, you know, uh, one of

(01:03:36):
the four a's, you know, uh, whenhe, when he said, and he and he
really admitted to me that hetried everything.
You know, it's like justhearing the story of Erica and
him that he tried everything.
And you have to make surebecause Dr Erica has explained
tonight the horrors of thisthing, you know you're talking

(01:03:59):
about emotional, the friends,the children and all of these
kind of things.
It affects you in the long runto where sometimes you, you know
you want to trust gettingmarried again.
Sometimes you don't want to dothat and so you make sure that
you try everything and and andagain don't move on until God

(01:04:21):
says to move on.
And but we had a conversationtoday and you know it was.
It was just like you know, Itried everything and I don't't.
I don't like when people say Ijust want what you, and pat said
, yeah, you know whatever.
He told me that long time ago.
But um, I do know him and Iknow he loved his kids and I
know he loved that and anaddiction can sometimes mess up

(01:04:42):
your marriage oh yeah, for sureyeah, yeah, all right this one
is gonna take your phone yeahbut you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
You can't take care of nobody if you're using it for
alcohol or drugs or anythinglike.
Oh, gambling, yeah, hey vince.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I see vince is still online.
See if you can call754-222-2219, 754-222-2219.
I would love Vince to call inwhile Erica's on, or, you know,
I'll send him the link to getyou know.
If you want to be visible, I'llsend him the you know the link
to join.

(01:05:17):
You know, in the churchsometimes we'll say no, don't do
it, don't do it.
But Erica had pointed out thevery four things that I believe
that the Bible, you know, canlist, that you can move on.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Right, and it does.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
I did my homework because this was near and dear
to me, because if I got to gothrough this God you could
already do something with allthese tears.
You know what I mean, you cando something with all these
tears and that was one of thethings that I came up with, Eric
, in my study was just, you know, when it comes to addictions,
abuse, abandonment and adultery,okay, there's a way out.

(01:06:06):
There's a way out, and thechurch will have people thinking
that they've got to stay inthese abusive, toxic
relationships at any and allcosts and that's not of God.
And the divorce to me is likethat taboo in the church, nobody
wants to talk about it as awoman of faith, as a woman of

(01:06:29):
God serving, is he on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
No, not yet Go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Okay, I felt like I had done something.
My husband left me.
So I found myself making sureI'm not in nobody's husband's
face, because I didn't wantnobody thinking I want Amen,
amen, what?
Making sure I'm not in nobody'shusband's face because I didn't
want nobody thinking, I wantamen what I'm just being, just
being transparent, because it'swhat?
divorce a duty, it's almost likethe scarlet letter oh, she's

(01:06:57):
divorced, you know what, youknow that type thing.
So I was always conscious andcognizant of that.
Um, because, as some of thewomen, they they're going to
treat you like that, but nobodywants to talk about divorce,
aftercare, what that looks like.
Who was I supposed to go to inthe church, going through this
divorce other than my past?

(01:07:18):
Who was I going to go to?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Wow, I like the way I divorce aftercare.
That is so true, because you'repicking up the pieces, you're
trying to pull things togetherand you have nobody to help you
do that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:30):
you're doing it on your own who was going to help
me without trying to be in mybusiness and find out what's
going on?
Who was going to walk thatthing out with me genuinely and
in integrity, according to hisword, and not make me feel like
I done something wrong or wedone something wrong.
Who was?

(01:07:53):
going to help me, and so that'swhere, as a church, we've got to
do better.
So, for me, I used to beashamed to talk about what I'm
dealing with and going through.
This happened in 2015.
I did not.
I never, publicly, outside ofour circle, never told anybody
my story until over the summer,during my Bible study group here

(01:08:17):
in my neighborhood, and I wasso proud of myself.
I called Pastor May and toldher.
I said you know what?
Tonight I was able to share mystory Because to me, I'm a
private person.
I just am.
I just am.
But a lot of times we, as theyfeel bible talking, preaching

(01:08:38):
people, we suffer in silencebecause we feel like we don't
have an outlet in the church.
Yes, and divorce is one ofthose areas for me.
I looked around and all I couldthink was who can I turn to?
So many people could turn to meand I'm there, but who could I

(01:09:00):
go to?
Wow.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
And I would, you know .
I would say you know what thechurch got to do better.
You know, you know.
I would say you know what thechurch got to do better.
You know, um, you know thechurch has to do better.
And even married couples, wehave to do better.
When you know, when one of oursisters and brothers are going
through a divorce and don't it'snot time to condemn and all

(01:09:24):
that kind of thing.
I mean, you can ask specificquestions, but it's not time to
condemn, but be there for themBecause, like I say, divorce
aftercare.
You need to have that Becauseyou know, and I'm not talking
about where people are, theyjust noncommittal.
You know, again, it's acontract, they keep it as a
contract, but I'm talking aboutyou had these two individuals

(01:09:47):
that love God and time they loveeach other.
Something happened, right, andabandonment happened.
And the scripture says you knowwe've got to love our wives as
we love the church, and it's youknow, just vice versa of loving
each other.
But when one of those fourthings happened, you're not
loving that person.

(01:10:08):
You're not doing that.
So yeah, it happens.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
That's another thing that I say to people who I say
well, you know, because you know, I had my whole domestic
violence situation back in theday but was not married at the
time.
But when I tell you know peoplewho are going through stuff in
their marriage and whatever thesituation, I'm like you know.
You know, husbands are supposedto love their wives like Christ

(01:10:35):
loved the church.
Christ loved the church.
He don't abandon the church, hedon't abuse the church.
You know, he don't cause painto the church.
So if you say you love Christand you're supposed to love me
like Christ loved the church,then I don't see where this
relationship is going to be.
This relationship is toxic,because everything that is not

(01:10:56):
supposed to be is what you'redoing.
It's what's happening.
So that's one thing that I haveto watch for them.
But I am grateful to have somuch more now that I can
encourage young out to them.
But I am grateful to have somuch more now that I could
encourage young women whenthey're going through, and I
don't just, you know, encouragethem on how to stand.
If he don't want to talk to you, write him a letter stick it on

(01:11:18):
the refrigerator stick it inthe bathroom mirror.
You got to communicate and Iappreciate you, sis, I really,
really do.
I know it had to be, you know,tough for you to put it out
there, but I'm grateful that youdid and I'm so grateful and so
proud that you've made it over.
You're just doing so well.

(01:11:38):
I'm always talking about you toother people, you know my sis.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
I got to get to Texas .
I got to get out, but I willsee you in Palm.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Beach.
I'm going to come.
I'm going to get in my little.
It's the snow.
You got to get to Texas, butI'm going to see you in Palm
Beach though.
I'm going to come.
I'm going to get in my littlecon drive right on to you
Because I definitely could usesome us time, and you know yes.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
And I do encourage the young women to learn to pray
over you.
Well, not just the young women,but just spouses as a whole.
Learn to pray over your spousewhen they're sleeping.
Yeah, yes, learn to pray,because when he was dealing with
that mental health, I mean assoon as I went to sleep, I got
the oil and I'm laying handslike you know like like right

(01:12:21):
really just really learning topray for him.
Even even during all this Inever stopped praying because he
could not run my prayers.
But that's one of the things Iempower the young women I talk
with.
Patsy is teaching them how topray for their husbands and
cover them and always tell themdon't ask God to change them.

(01:12:41):
You want God to change them forhim.
Not for you, but for for him.
Because when they get changedfor god, everything goes on my
yes, yes, you are so right allright, you're preaching girl,
all right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
Well, we all we'll.
Well, you know, hey, this Ieggs.
Uh, I heard podcasts go two orthree hours so I'm not worried
about it, but you know we gottime thing and um, so I really
want to again.
I want to just back up what youknow co-sign, what Pastor said
we really appreciate you comingon to share your story.

(01:13:17):
And also, you know you made itover and you know you're doing
good.
You know, and so we're proud ofyou on that, erica.
Give you a shout out, so tonight, well, Vince couldn't come on.
You know he says he's emotionalright now, but the kids in the

(01:13:40):
other room too, and so I alwaysmess with him.
We the same age.
I think he got a kid that's sixyears old.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
He got a toddler.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
We're 58.
He got a kid that's six yearsold we 58.
He got a toddler.
No way, no, no, no, no, no, no,no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no
, no, no, no, no, no no no, no,I can just imagine my boy, vince
man, all right, but tonight hasbeen such a powerful and

(01:14:10):
insight conversation, so wethank each and every person who
joined us.
Please make sure if you havenot liked that video, if you
have not liked, please make sureyou like, like and share.
Tonight we are located, we areall over Spotify, amazon Music,

(01:14:32):
youtube Music, apple Podcasts Ifyou want to listen to this
again and just be encouraged,knowing that all of these things
can happen.
But you can make it over.
You can make it over.
If Erica can do it, you can doit.
Yes, Yep absolutely so, Erica.
Before we get ready to go, doyou have any final words that

(01:14:54):
you want to say to the audience?

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
No, just remember marriage is a covenant, not a
contract.
Don't go into it with terms andconditions or it's not going to
work.
It's not going to work.
It's a covenant, a God givencovenant.
Do it God.
It will last.
I promise you, it will last.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
And when God is in it , there is no limit there is no
limit, there is no limit, allright, and please don't forget
to subscribe to our channel.
Yeah, don't forget to go on ourwebsite.
We're going to start doing ablog there, so we want to make
sure you subscribe to ourchannel.
And also we have a Marriage inReal Life podcast YouTube
channel as well.

(01:15:41):
So we want you to subscribe notonly to Real Life TV one, but
also subscribe to that Marriagein Real Life podcast and please
leave a review.
Please leave a review.
It really helps us to reachmore listeners who care about
building lasting love and knowthat this is Marriage in Real
Life.
All right, baby, I want tothank you.

(01:16:03):
Thank you again for you beingyou.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Well, you're quite welcome.
Who else can?

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
it be, I'm glad, I'm glad you can't be nobody else,
right, all right.
So we want to say good night,good night.
Thank you again, erica, thankyou, thank you for everybody who
is watching.
God bless, thank you forjoining us.
Yes.