January 17, 2025 • 50 mins
Discover the future of sustainable construction with insights from our annual guest, Arnie, as we explore the exciting developments at the upcoming International Mass Timber Conference. Delve into the innovative projects that are redefining mass timber's role in construction, such as the striking ceiling installation at Portland Airport. With over 200 exhibitors and attendees spanning 40 countries, this year's conference promises unparalleled networking and learning opportunities. Uncover how mass timber is becoming a key player in large-scale projects, with case studies like Microsoft's data center and Walmart's campus demonstrating its incredible potential.
A spotlight on the Women in Timber event reveals a remarkable growth story, set to draw over 500 dedicated professionals eager to learn and connect. This episode covers the dynamic schedule of the conference, offering generous networking breaks and exquisite dining experiences. Learn from advanced workshops led by top architects and engineers, and hear about groundbreaking projects that tackle real-world challenges. The theme focuses on the tangible impact of mass timber and strategies to amplify its application in future endeavors.
Trace the global evolution of mass timber construction over the past decade with Arnie, from pioneering projects to today's megaprojects by giants like Google and Walmart. This episode will guide you through the transformation of mass timber from theory to practice, emphasizing the role of technology and policy in overcoming industry hurdles. Explore the potential of modular and sustainable buildings as urbanization and migration trends reshape our cities. With strategic advice for attendees and the announcement of a new multi-year partnership with Trifecta, this episode is a must-listen for anyone invested in the future of construction.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
This is the moment you all havebeen waiting for.
It's time for the globalsensation, the one, the only the
(00:26):
undisputed heavyweight podcastin the world the Mass Timber
Construction Podcast.
And now here's Paul Kramer,your host.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Good morning, good afternoon or good evening.
Wherever you are in the worldtoday, Welcome to the Mass
Timber Construction Podcast, andyou don't need to have an
introduction to this gentleman.
He's on every year.
It's now our annual catch-up.
He's on every year.
It's now our annual catch-up.
It's January 2025.
We're probably less than a fewmonths out from the
(01:09):
International Mass TimberConference and I'd like to
welcome Arnie to the podcast.
Arnie, welcome, Say hello tothe listeners.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Thanks, paul, appreciate you having me on
again.
It's nice that we keeprepeating this at about this
time.
So we're getting fired up forMarch 25th through the 27th at
the Oregon Convention Centeragain and got basically a whole
new agenda this year.
So it's just really exciting tosee what's happening.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, we'll get into that in a minute and I just want
to say this is the fifth yearwe've done this in a row.
My friend, this is being sortof COVID times.
We have um sprung out of thegate and things are on an upward
trajectory and it sounds like,from all the media coverage
(01:59):
that's currently available,we're a very proud media partner
with the team and the amount ofLinkedIn activity it's going to
be bigger than ever before,right?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, the energy is huge, I mean, and I think it's
indicative of the space itself.
You know you're seeing growtharound the world in all aspects
of, you know, sustainabledevelopment, mass timber as a
part of that, and others, andit's just encouraging to see it.
And you know, I don't mean itto be arrogant, but the
(02:35):
conference has kind of become ahome base for everybody that if
they can go to one place, youknow, and consolidate their
travel and, you know, see kindof all parts of the supply chain
at once.
And then obviously ours isheavy on education and
interactiveness and all of thosekind of things.
(02:56):
So that's what's driving it is.
There's so many real projects,so many real projects and
Portland considers to be, youknow, considered to be a what
they quote, unquote theinternational capital of mass
timber.
You know, I think there'smaking sense with so many
(03:16):
projects to choose from and andmanufacturing facilities and so
much political will in that areaof Oregon.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So I can't believe that you convinced the Portland
airport to put in a huge masstimber ceiling just for the
conference.
Is this true?
Is this rumor true?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, it's actually an interesting story because
that was presented and foundedat the conference.
Bill Browning gave the firstkind of sneak peek into that.
So many of the partners thatare part of the conference
played integral parts in thatparticular project and it's a
(03:57):
real showcase.
It's actually where one of thetours, which is about sold out
it does a pretty good in-depthlook at the airport and then the
Port of Portland is actuallygoing to be present at the
conference and they have what'scalled the T2, which is Terminal
(04:17):
2, which is expanding andbecoming a huge mecca for mass
timber testing modular units.
All of that that's part of thetour as well.
But yeah, you look at thepartners I hate to list them
because there's so many, butwhether it's ZGF or Timberlab or
(04:37):
Zip Laminators and WesternArchrib and on down the line,
it's Skanska, obviously a hugeplayer in that, and Swinerton
and so many partners touchedthat project and it's really a
showcase for the world to seewhat can be done.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, I've been impressed by the imagery that's
come out and people that come tothe conference will be able to
experience going through thismassive area with this mass
timber structure and it's a realgreat entry or foray into
coming into the city.
And then, of course, it's atthe infamous Portland Oregon
(05:22):
grounds that we've always held,with the Hyatt and obviously,
our famous rooftop bar thateveryone likes to go to either
before or after the event,depending on whether you're
having a breakfast meeting oryou're catching up for drinks
afterwards.
It's a great venue.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, they've really gone out of their way and
they're going to do a lot ofspecial things as people come in
to the airport.
You know, in 24, we had 38countries.
We're hoping to break 40 thisyear and it looks pretty likely.
And what's cool about that isit's real.
It's a real project.
I mean there's not many peoplethat can do that kind of a huge
(06:01):
scale project, but as you lookat it, that kind of a huge scale
project.
But as you look at it, there'smultiple airport projects around
the world happening and othertypes of projects.
But it really shows aninteresting dynamic in terms of
what sustainable buildingpractices can mean and how you
can accomplish a huge goal likethat.
(06:22):
How you can accomplish a hugegoal like that.
And I give them so much credit.
And it definitely helpsshowcase mass timber at the
International Mass TimberConference when you got an
airport like that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, it's an impressive project and there
will be people who have workedon that project.
So anyone listening that'sinternational going.
How do I catch up on the supplychain or the way that the
procurement worked, or the waythat the procurement worked or
the way that the constructionhappened or the way the
logistics worked in aninternational airport?
You can probably catch up withpeople at the conference, which
(06:54):
is another great reason to youknow.
Book your ticket, book youraccommodation and get down to
Portland and on top of that,you've got one of the biggest
exhibitions happening in theconference ever.
Right, there's more space beingconsumed now than ever.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, we have the.
You know, go back in the daywhere we had a quarter of the
facility.
Now we have the entire facilityof the facility.
Now we have the entire facility.
We just crossed 200 exhibitors.
To put that perspective, in2016, we had 28.
So it's pretty dramatic andthey're all bigger and so we're
taking the entire footprint.
(07:37):
Very, very interactive.
You've got Woodworks is doing alive build of a building inside
the facility.
Again, this is the second yearand that's going to be kind of
on steroids and doing even more.
The Union Brotherhood ofCarpenters and Plenaries are
(07:58):
putting on a showcase of youknow kind of hands on activities
Multiple, multi, multi storyexhibit spaces to show off
products.
Yeah, it's a different kind ofa style and, like I said, you
know, we kind of reinvented theentire conference because of the
(08:19):
need for additionalopportunities for education
first, and then networking aswell, and then how do you expose
people to the new products?
And that's really happening,you know, and it's really cool
to see it unfold.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think that there's been a genesis of activity
that's happening in Oregon, withthe two universities getting
some significant grant fundingrecently to look at mass timber,
volume, social and otherhousing, and you've got this
(08:56):
vocational education comingthrough with the building of the
building in the exhibition hall, and so we've really got the
whole gamut right.
Higher education's beingcovered, but also down to what
does it mean for tradespeopleand what does it mean to
actually practically put thingstogether.
And then across that you've gotmachine and equipment suppliers
and you've got software peoplethat come through that help
(09:18):
complete the ensemble of thesupply and fabrication supply
chain.
So really, there's something foreverybody, no matter where you
come from in the supply chain,from forestry right down to
trades on site.
There's something in there foreveryone, right?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, it's.
You know we always start withthe forest first and then you go
from there to these beautiful,incredible buildings and
projects that are being donearound the world and you know
you're going to have chances tosee that.
You know.
I mean, we have actually fivetours this year, you know, and
(09:55):
we had to make hard choices.
There was, you know, 50, 60applications for those 15 slots
and they show the whole gamut.
You know you got all the wayfrom an airport to a modular ADU
unit that you can put in yourbackyard made out of CLT.
You've got an opportunity to govisit which is a huge, huge,
(10:20):
growing aspect of mass timber iswarehouses.
So you know you got companies,the big name companies, pro
logistics, going to presentaround why they built mass
timber warehouses.
You know you got the Frearscompany with their MPP, the mass
plywood product prettyincredible.
(10:40):
You know dynamic product thatare getting showed off.
But then you've got, you know,forestry tour.
You've got manufacturing ofbolts.
You know the Portland Bolt ishosting a tour.
So you know, all of a suddenyou get pretty in-depth and then
you get some really interestingbuildings that you're going to
have one shot to see them andthen they close up because some
(11:03):
of them are pretty securityfilled and all that other stuff.
But as part of that goes, itjust showcases what can be done.
And, as Craig Rawlings, mybusiness partner a lot of people
know him that'll be listening,but Craig always says
entrepreneurs win the day andthat's what we're seeing now in
(11:24):
this mass timber space.
You know, roloblast is comingup with new fasteners or Hilti
is coming up with a new firestop.
I mean there's all kinds ofproduct additions that are
coming to the table, along withmanufacturing facilities like
solder, timber, timber and andother folks like that.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
pretty cool to see it unfold and I think a big shout
out has to go out to the uhorganizing committee, and my
good friend, nick houston fromaustralia, who's formerly from
the uk, is on that committeewith you and it seems that the
agenda that's starting to comeout at the moment is really
robust.
Tell us about some of the keyhighlights coming through from
(12:08):
the committee that you'vedecided.
This is the direction we'regoing and these are the people
we're bringing to the stage.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, nick is a great addition.
He's actually moderating apanel around moisture control
and managing those projects,which is that was actually the
highest rated program in 2024was the one around moisture and
coatings.
So we've got several folks likeSanson and others, timberpro,
(12:39):
hermajink and others that arecoming to the table with their
products.
But when I say we reinvented it, in a sense we did.
If you can imagine, the mosteducation sessions we've ever
had at the conference was in2024, with 16, which is a lot.
This year there's 24.
So it's really focused andthere's a couple of pretty
(13:06):
significant new things happeningon the agenda.
So Tuesday is the day of thetours.
That kick off everything andthen you have the big reception.
But what we've done is we'restarting the tours earlier,
we're streamlining them to geteverybody back by three o'clock
to the Oregon Convention Center,because the conference actually
(13:27):
kicks off at three o'clock in abig way on that Tuesday.
Prior to that, woodworks, ourco-producer, is hosting a Mass
Timber 101.
That's a workshop that's reallyworth your time going to.
It's got lots of informationthat will kick that off.
(13:48):
That starts at 1230 that dayand that stops before the 3 pm.
But we have two keynote panelsprior to the reception and the
idea is to stimulateconversation at that networking
event and then throughout theconference and then the sessions
(14:09):
are tied all the way through.
But as an example we have it'scalled sustainable lumber, and
where does engineered woodproducts fit into that?
Well, we've got the presidentof Georgia Pacific going to talk
, fritz, and we've got Monicafrom Boise Cascade and Katie
(14:29):
from Weyerhaeuser and Jason fromRedbilt in Hampton.
You know big, big producingcompanies that aren't always
about mass timber but they'reabout sustainable lumber
production as well andengineered lumber products.
You know, and they're going totalk as kind of an open forum.
(14:50):
Pete Stewart's the moderator.
He's been around, everybodyknows him in the industry for 30
years.
Really interesting kickoff.
Simultaneously we have the headof the union with actual
(15:15):
contractors that built buildingsand Jason from Woodworks who's
very instrumental in all theactual processing of the
buildings.
Buildings they're going to beon a separate stage talking
about safety, which is a hugetopic, and talking about real
world application techniques,and then you can take that
forward and go on the floor andsee those in use.
So that's a totally new thingthat we're doing.
(15:38):
We think it makes sense.
People are there, they're readyto go and you know the workshop
has a little additional cost tocover the stuff in it.
That's through Woodworks andit's a really great program.
But then there's 3 to 4 pm onTuesday and then at 4 is the big
, you know, kind of openingreception and then people, you
(16:00):
know that goes to about six andthen people go out.
So that's a really interestingstart.
We're really jacked to see howit goes.
We think it's going to be veryembraced and get some really
high profile people.
But again, it's all aboutsparking conversations and
dialogue during the conference.
And then what can you do tomake things happen, to solve
(16:24):
some issues?
And that's where the otherkeynotes come in and in the
sessions.
So really, um, a fun way tostart and we're just happy that
you know these people, reallyhigh level people that have a
lot to say, a lot to give cancome to the table and really
share you, you know, sparkconversations basically.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think it's a brilliant idea, I think, create
the genesis of ideation in themind, then allow people to
explore and then let that tocontinue to a point.
And, of course, my favorite isthat welcoming event, because
it's the first time all theexhibitors are set up,
everyone's in the hall, everyonefilters through, you get to see
(17:05):
all the exhibitors are set up,everyone's in the hall, everyone
filters through.
You get to see all the latestand greatest and catch up with
people before you head out andyou have a bite to eat and then
settle down for the evening.
And it's probably one of themost joyful and probably the
most important networkingsessions.
And, of course, is the app backthis year.
So can I go on the app and planto meet you, arnie, at
(17:28):
Skanska's or Timberlabs stand at, you know, 4.30 in the
afternoon in that event time, sothat we can catch up and say
hello and exchange a businesscard and then later on
potentially go out for dinner.
Can I organize all that beforethe event?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
on, potentially go out for dinner.
Can I organize all that beforethe event?
Yeah, that's a great point andwe invested a lot into that,
energy and money to get it evenbetter and that actually will
come live.
March 1st is the expected datefor that to be live.
And, just like you said, it's alittle bit like LinkedIn you
got to be careful with, you knowall of the security and all of
(18:07):
that kind of stuff and privacyrules, but it's yeah.
Hey, paul, this is Arnie.
I'm interested in talking toyou about XYZ.
Oh yeah, I'd like to do that.
That's part of it.
And then there's some formalthings happening at night,
particularly Wednesday night.
You know, woodworks has a bigevent with the Wood Innovation
Network, and then something westarted this year and I give
(18:32):
them a lot of credit.
Aaron from Swinerton andWhitney with Skanska and our
Shelby who's with the MassTimber Conference, along with
several others, put together awomen in timber event.
Last year it was during the,during the conference break, but
this year it's so big we'reexpecting 500 or more folks at
(18:57):
that.
It's not just for women, it'sfor you know, but it's focused
in that direction.
Non-binary and that, that.
But it's focused in thatdirection, non-binary and that.
But that's actually right afterthe conference, social ends at
530 on Wednesday.
So that's going to be a verybig event.
(19:18):
But you've got lots of thosekind of things doing it going on
.
But what we did is we theschedule.
We always have big breaks andwe're going to do that, and we
have a big lunch and a very nicelunch by business partner.
Tom's a total foodie and wenever skimp on that.
It's really good food, but italso is a way for people to talk
(19:39):
and then later on, after youknow the session was pretty,
pretty intense, you can go havea beer, cup of coffee, whatever
it is, and we have expanded that.
But then ended the hours alittle bit earlier so people can
go to dinners, can go to dothings.
Portland's such a cool town totake advantage of, um, it just
(20:01):
all kind of ties together the.
The flow feels really good.
But you know, there's a coupleof things that are new.
One really big thing that's newis case studies.
So case studies are kind ofhard because sometimes they feel
like an infomercial, you know,and you just don't want that.
(20:21):
So we have expected them tobring real numbers to the table
and we had, I think, 80submissions for 10 slots.
Very tough to pick those.
The list is going to beincredible.
That is going to be posted herein the next week.
And so there's kind of mini casestudies.
They get 15 to 20 minutes tosay this was the challenge, this
(20:44):
was the project, this is how wedid it.
Here's the basics.
Boom, boom, boom.
We can talk in depth and we'reopen to meet with you and talk
about how we got it done.
So that's a new big deal.
We have advanced topics, whichis like an advanced workshop run
by some of the best kind ofengineers from your world and
(21:06):
architects of the world thatwe've handpicked for that Really
intricate things, you know, andall the CE credits that go with
that.
And then we have a couple ofreally in-depth case studies.
We call them.
One is the Microsoft datacenter that was just built.
(21:31):
So those folks are going topresent real things and how they
got it done, very in-depth,60-minute type, in-depth about
materials and choices and whythey did this and why they did
that.
So you got the Microsoft one.
And then on top of that we'regoing to have Brian Brashaw is
moderating this and he's beenintermittently involved in the
(21:54):
birth of Mass Timber and it'sabout the Walmart project which
we got a chance to visit lastOctober.
It's extraordinary.
I mean, it's beyondextraordinary.
You walk into the fitnesscenter for the employees of
Walmart and it's all mass timberand it's dramatic.
And that campus alone is goingto have upwards of 15,000 people
(22:20):
working at it and they're goingto have 10 or 12 mass timber
buildings by the time it's saidand done on that campus.
So really intriguing to get aninsider look at that project.
That's, you know, kind of a bignew thing that's happening and
(22:41):
exciting, you know, to see thatkind of energy in real projects.
And that's kind of the themethis year going forward is these
are real and how do you tweakit to make it even better.
So yeah, really informative Ibelieve it's going to be.
We're testing some things out.
There's going to be a lot ofinteractive things happening as
(23:03):
well in the sessions, out of thesessions, in the networking
time and the app you mentionedand some of the other things
that are going to be available.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think that's brilliant and I am finishing off
a paper at the moment and it'scalled A Decade in Mass Timber,
and so I personally have pinnedStathouse and the Forte building
here in Melbourne as being thefirst sort of global foray into
volume mass timber buildings inthe world to start this genesis
(23:34):
of the current spread.
So if that was happening insort of 2009 to 2012, you know,
my very first big publishedpaper on mass timber is 2015.
So 2025 is a decade, so it's agreat bookend.
And if I look at the immensechange that's happened and if we
follow that same trajectorybased on the the international
(23:56):
mass timber conference, 2016 tonow, next year will be its, its
decade.
Right, it is huge change and Iagree with you.
We we struggled back in theearly days to get evidence-based
case studies, so we hadquantity surveyors compare
concrete and mass timberbuildings and look at
preliminaries and add backs, buta lot of it was theoretical Now
(24:19):
to have these tangible casesand people like Microsoft and
Walmart being involved inprojects.
I had a question Did you getGoogle to come on board at the
conference this year?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, yeah, they're in a big way.
You know they've presentedbefore they just did the new
project, one of the new projectsthere.
There are multiple folks fromthere are attending and talking.
You know, in addition to youknow, when I mentioned these
case studies, there's multipleinternational case studies as
well, and they're not all big,huge projects.
(24:55):
There's some regular projectsthat everyday people and
developers are going to be ableto do.
You know, one of our partnersthis year again is ULI, the
Urban Land Institute, both theworldwide one and then ULI
Northwest, and they're bringingin a whole cadre of developers
(25:16):
with real numbers and thingslike that and bringing that to
the table.
You know, those parts andpieces are what drive the
business, you know, in the end,and it's exciting.
The other thing that's happeningand like I said it's basically
been reinvented.
(25:36):
The opening keynote is a paneland that's on Wednesday morning.
So most people in this spaceknow Thomas Robinson.
It happens to be his hometown,right, and they're doing a
project with multiple partnersand they're going to unveil a
bunch of that.
(25:56):
But they've got $300 millionworth of mass timber projects
going in this one area and thearea can be replicated in terms
of in other communities and it'sabout bringing communities
together.
It happens to be in anAfrican-American area that
(26:19):
there's a lot of history to thatand that's going to be
discussed.
But more in depth than that,it's real.
There's projects being built,already built in the future.
So that keynote is going tospark lots of conversations and
the idea behind that is it'sreal projects.
(26:39):
There's an incredible museumthat the person's going to talk
about and how they were able todo a lot of interactive stuff
because of the sustainabilitydesign and all of that goes into
that again sparkingconversation.
And then on Thursday we have agroup of people.
It's going to be reallyinteresting, some of your old
(27:00):
friends Paul King from Built byNature is going to be on that
panel, lucas Epp fromStructureCraft, amy Helig from
Ball Software and then anotherindividual his name is Scott
Francisco and the idea behindthat.
That's a little bit more of afuturistic look and it's you
(27:22):
know, hey, there is still somebarriers out there.
We're going to talk a littlebit about that, but then they're
going to talk about how youincorporate AI into the solution
, how you incorporate some ofthis structural analysis
processes that Amy and Lucas areexperts on.
You got Scott and Paul lookingat it from a policy side and
(27:46):
what's worked, what's not worked, and we have a partnership with
Built by Nature and really havea lot of common bonds.
But that I'm excited about totie in the whole thing and then
that leads itself into the lastday, on Thursday.
But when you look at it it'sabout reality, probably more
(28:09):
than ever, because there is somany projects out there, there's
production coming on stream,there's new products coming to
the table.
You know a couple of the bigbuckets of new products.
One I mentioned earlier is thiswarehouse space and the data
center space.
Huge opportunities there forsustainable buildings, let alone
(28:33):
the modularization of products.
I was on a project that wassupplied by Kalisnikov and done
by some really cool people PeterRose out of the Boston area
really cool people.
Peter Rose out of the Bostonarea, his architect firm
designed it and then his firmsfrom Europe and elsewhere put it
(28:55):
together.
But essentially modular,stackable workforce housing done
in CLT, and Craig Tom andmyself and my wife Debbie and
Carol Craig's wife got to go seethat the Friday after our
Thanksgiving.
And what's intriguing aboutthat is it's real.
(29:16):
I mean, kalisnikov is going tohave a booth showing off
products that are ready for sale.
So you want to do a workforcehousing project?
They're ready.
You want to do an affordablehousing project?
They're ready.
You want to do an affordablehousing project?
They're ready.
You want to do some otherthings in that gamut that seem
to make sense.
Maybe it's an ADU in thebackyard because you need
(29:38):
additional revenue to float yourmortgage or whatever.
That, or mother-in-law suite orman cave or whatever you want
to call it.
There's some opportunitiesthere.
That modularization do you knowbetter than anybody can be a
very big part of the solution.
We're going to have those unitson the floor.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
That's impressive and I think being ready is an
important distinction, more nowthan ever, with an urban
expansion and a densificationcondition.
An important distinction, morenow than ever, with, you know,
an urban expansion and adensification condition that
exists in most modern cities.
With migration patternschanging and pressures put on
social systems, we need to lookat different ways and this
(30:22):
phenomena is global, it's notjust local.
It's happening here inMelbourne, it's happening over
there, where you are, it'shappening all over the place.
And then, obviously, there'sthis drive to obviously meet the
Paris Accord and 2030, 2040,2050 emissions targets.
All of this needs to beconsidered as part of the total
solution and I'm so pleased tobe associated with you know,
(30:45):
yourselves and the wider globalcommunity in trying to find
strategies and initiatives andbe entrepreneurial, as you
mentioned in, you know,configuring a way forward.
Who's going to be the big namesthat are coming?
I know I ask you every year andsometimes you can't tell me
because it's under embargo, butcan you give us a bit of a taste
(31:07):
of as to who's coming through?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Well, the way I would look at that is think of the
technology companies Google,facebook, amazon, microsoft all
attending, all talking aboutwhat they're doing.
Then, all of a sudden, you goto multiple layers of people
(31:33):
from Europe and in New Zealandand Australia and all parts of
Asia coming in.
You know, when you have 40countries represented, we've got
delegations coming from Korea,from Taiwan I mean multiple
delegations coming in becausethey can see all parts of the
(31:58):
supply chain at one time.
So, but at the same time, it'snot too rushed.
You know there's a lot ofinformation coming at you, but
one of the things we're alsodoing is we started the
International Mass Timber Reportin 2019.
And this year we're going backto our roots in a sense, but
(32:22):
that report is actually going tobe over 300 pages this year
report is actually going to beover 300 pages this year.
Real numbers associated withreal pricing, pricing indexes,
all kinds of information in thatreport.
And you're not only going toget a PDF this year, but we
(32:43):
invested to have everybody get ahard copy.
It's expensive as heck to getthose printed, but we think it's
worth it because it's going tobe in hand.
You're going to get to feel itand touch it.
But you mentioned universitiesearlier.
We actually have one specialLunch and Learn that's going to
be led by.
I think that I saw VirginiaTech is on it.
University of Arkansas, peter,our friend Peter there is on it.
(33:05):
Our University of Arkansas,peter, our friend Peter.
There.
Michigan State's on that andthat's going to be a special
session around what are we doingon curriculum for mass timber,
you know, and wood and thosekinds of things.
So they're going to bediscussing that at length.
We're actually going to theSoftwood Lumber Board is really
(33:26):
excited about that, and sothey're going to have actually
it's going to be like a lunchand learn on top of the session
Something new.
It's just another new piecethat comes to the table.
It's a way to sparkconversations but actual results
.
So a combination of all thoseuniversities, then these
(33:50):
manufacturers come into thetable, all the pieces and parts
within that, and then really bigconstruction companies.
You know you talked about, likeyou know, xl construction and
Turner construction and you knowworldwide companies Cree is
going to be there.
You know they have a booth thisyear, weyerhaeuser has a booth.
(34:11):
So you know, all of a suddenyou start seeing that and then
you got a lot of startups thatare going to be showing projects
and products.
We're helping facilitate that.
So you're going to see some bigdisplays.
One thing I would mention,obviously in your space, the
academia we do the postersessions.
(34:32):
Again, that was just posted onLinkedIn and social media.
Around these poster sessionsthey get a huge amount of press.
I mean because people want tosee that, they want to feel it,
those students most of them arePhD students that are presenting
at that and it's going to be alive, interactive piece.
(34:54):
The Tallwood Institute you knowthat joint venture between
University of Oregon and OregonState.
They've got a big space.
So it's just, and then it's.
You know, it's just fun, youknow, because you're around
people.
One of the other things we did,I mean it just goes on and on.
It's fun.
But one of the ideas was tocreate four cafes we call them
(35:17):
within the exhibit hall so youcan go have a cup of coffee,
have a beer outside of that mainarea.
Frears is hosting that hugearea in the middle.
There's going to be all kindsof fun, cool games happening in
there.
You know it's fun to bullshit.
At the end of the day, you gotall this information coming at
(35:37):
you.
But these cafes Weining ishosting one, the SFI those folks
, which are awesome is hostingone, the Port of Portland, and
then actually another company ishosting one.
We're going to do testingaround, monitoring around that
and that's going to be reallycool to see.
(35:59):
So, yeah, we're just kind offired up when you get into the
agenda, which is almost it'sprobably 90 percent posted on
the website now, with who'sgoing to talk and what the basic
talks are.
You know, yeah, it's just kindof all facets, but we determine
(36:20):
the content from the committeeand then we do discovery
meetings.
You know hundreds of thosethroughout the year and that's
how we decided we need to havesustainable lumber and
(36:40):
engineered wood products fromoutside the mass timber space
because people want to knowabout that.
We need to talk about safetyand proper installation.
People need to know those kindof things.
We need to talk about a real,significant project.
That's why Thomas Robinson ishosting that keynote.
We need to talk about AI andsome of the structural analysis
and architectural analysis,projects and possibilities out
(37:01):
there, because that's comingevery day quicker and quicker.
And then I guess you know,going back to something I
mentioned earlier, this women intimber thing.
Who would have ever thoughtwe're going to have 500 people
at that thing?
And it's fun and they do coolthings and they have.
You know, it's encouraging.
(37:22):
And then everybody goes out andhas dinner and has a beer or
whatever it is and tries torally for the next day and not
be too hung over it's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
It sounds like the star of the show is the planet,
because there's just so muchcoming from a global perspective
that, uh yeah, it's so diverse.
You know there isn't oneconcentrated element, and so I
guess that leads me to someadvice for listeners.
If you've come for the firsttime we haven't been for a while
(37:53):
make sure you plan whichsessions you're going to go to.
Go on the website now.
Have a look at the program.
That's 90% complete.
Plan out where you're going togo.
Look at the app when it opensup March 1st and see who you
want to connect with and reallymake the most of the time,
because it goes so quickly.
It is just a flash in the panand it's over, and then
(38:16):
everyone's saying goodbye andit's another 12 months, and then
the 12 months actually justgets shorter and shorter.
For us, arnie, it seems likeonly yesterday I was speaking to
you about this very thing.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, and we're implementing some things to make
it easy to continueconversations, both with the app
and on our expanded website.
That includes the reportfeatures and those kind of
things.
But you know, the other adviceI would tell you is you know
there's only a few spots left onthese tours on Tuesday and the
(38:52):
workshop.
So the workshop has a lot ofmeat to it.
It's a really great starter onTuesday to get your juices
flowing.
Woodworks does an incrediblejob, bill Parsons and his team.
If you can do that workshop onTuesday afternoon, that's an
awesome place to go, or one ofthe tours.
(39:12):
And then I would encourage youknow people as they plan be at
those 3 pm keynotes right beforethe four o'clock reception.
You know, it's just a great way.
You're getting to hear somepeople.
You might want to meet them.
You might want to meet somebody.
You're sitting next to gettingto hear some people.
You might want to meet them.
You might want to meet somebodyyou're sitting next to.
(39:32):
And what a better way.
You just go down the hall andtimber labs is buying a beer for
everybody again, which isawesome.
Thank you, chris evans and andthat whole team and they're
growing.
But you know, you got beers inthere or water, whatever you
want, snacks and then you knowjust a couple hours of
networking and then you go doyour dinner thing.
But take advantage of it.
(39:54):
The other thing I can'trecommend high enough is we
serve a full breakfast onWednesday and Thursday.
It's seven to eight or it'slike 645 to 745.
And it's designed that way.
You come in.
It's amazing how fast they canserve people.
Great breakfast, set up ameeting at breakfast and then
(40:18):
you go to the keynote at 8o'clock, you know, because we
kind of shut it down at 745.
So you got a kind of a windowthere.
It's worth getting up for it.
It's always great to have somefood to start the day.
It's healthy food.
Have a cup of coffee and thenyou hit that.
You get a nice break and thenfocus to your point.
(40:39):
Paul, pick out which ones youwant to go see.
It's always a hard choice.
And then you got anothernetworking event with a great
lunch.
You should have a meetingplanned already and then you go
to the sessions you want in theafternoon and then you have, you
know, wednesday we have anotherreception, the women in timber
thing going on.
(41:00):
Very cool opportunities tonetwork, connect, dig deep and
have fun.
You know, I mean, there'snothing wrong with us having fun
at a conference.
It doesn't need to be boring,it needs you got to have
networking capabilities.
You got to have educationalresources, ce credits, those
(41:23):
things are all very important.
Along, you know, having goodfood helps, having camaraderie,
live interactive products, newproducts that are coming to the
table.
You start hitting those four orfive main things and then it's
just up to you as an individual.
It's a great investment, it's aninvestment in time, it's an
(41:48):
investment in money.
We understand that.
So again, the tours are gettingclose to sold out, literally.
The hotels may be sold outalready.
The ones right next door,they're getting really close.
But we've got commitments fromlike five or six others.
So there's rooms available.
But I would get on that prettyquick.
(42:08):
And then you know there's stillit's a discount period.
You know that ends.
I think it's the 18th or 19thof February.
You know you still get a nicediscount off the initial price.
It's expensive, you know I.
I mean I look at spending $200for a hotel room.
I think that's crazy.
But I'm an old farm boy.
But you know you go to LosAngeles or San Francisco or
(42:32):
Chicago.
It's 500 bucks.
That's why Portland'sattractive that way.
It's a big investment.
One thing I would say about theexhibitors that I learned
through our partners Trifecta isa normal return rate of
exhibitors to a conference likethis is 70, 73 percent.
We're 97, 98.
(42:57):
And there's a reason for that.
The exhibitors make money.
They make, they get leads.
They make money at the show.
They do projects at the show,they sell equipment, they sell
products.
They get to see a lot of people.
At one time you know this had3,000 people.
We think it's going to be 3,500or more this year.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
It's brilliant and a great way to round it off, and I
just want to say thank you somuch for allowing us to partner
with you.
We've been running the ads forthe conference on the podcast
for oh, I reckon nine months now, or something like that.
It's some ridiculous number andwe firmly believe in it.
(43:37):
We back it, we support you, wesupport global expansion for the
technology and it's a privilegeto have you on the podcast
every year Without fail.
You answer the email, you comeon, you give us a great rundown
and it's just a privilege to bepart of it and you, tom and
Craig and everyone else behindthe scenes in the team, plus the
(43:59):
committee members, it's yeah.
Thank you so much for puttingon an amazing event.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
So you always want to get something right.
The big announcement.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (44:12):
I'm ready.
It's not going to come outuntil next week on the PR
release and it's exciting.
Give me the scoop.
So Craig, tom and I made adecision with Trifecta and have
partnered to commit to multipleyears with the conference.
(44:32):
So we're here to stay.
Hopefully everybody likes that,but it's so fun for us, we're
so excited to be a part of it.
The Jennifer and Bill atWoodworks are just huge partners
of ours.
We can't say enough about thatpartnership People like yourself
who have supported us from dayone.
(44:53):
And I agree with you, we allneed to lift everybody up and
encourage the sharing ofdialogue and new ideas.
I think the conference doesthat.
It's March 25th to the 27th.
You just go on theInternational Mass Timber
website.
You know it's easy to see theagenda and see what's being
(45:15):
unfolded.
Those case studies are going tobe populated over the next week
, but we just love to sharethings and bring people to the
table and we're excited to be apart of that go forward for the
next several years to come andit's it's a blessing and we know
that and the people around usthese attendees and exhibitors
(45:40):
and sponsors are friends andcolleagues and lifelong
partnerships and it's reallygreat to see people succeeding.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That's brilliant.
Look, I always tell this storyintermittently to people that I
speak to or on the podcast.
Back in 2016, 2017, when wewere setting up the X-Land
plants here in Australia, Iwould be struggling to find 10,
15 articles about mass timberprojects any month around the
(46:12):
world.
Now that's sort of 20 plus aweek, and I have to be really
discriminant about which ones Iput on the LinkedIn feed or talk
about on the weekly update oron the podcast.
So the growth is exponential.
And to hear that you guys arestaying on for another defined
period of time as part of theconference, I think you,
(46:36):
collectively, are the soul of ofthe conference and I think
that's an important thing to toacknowledge, because conferences
are about people.
Uh, you know, my my role hereis to create that conversation
and keep the conversation going.
Yours is exactly the same, sowe're aligned in that, and I
just think that's why it'ssuccessful, because people want
(46:58):
to be party to a conversation,they want to be listened to in
the conversation, they want tolearn something from a
conversation.
I think those three things arevitally related to what we do
collectively.
So thank you so much for allyou do.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, I appreciate that and don't hesitate to reach
out.
I'm available.
Craig Rawlings is available.
Tom Waddell, Shelby, Nelson.
You know, Melissa, we'reavailable.
Just LinkedIn's a great placeto reach out, email, whatever
you want.
But we're ready to help andready to serve and just love
this industry and it's it's ourheart and soul.
(47:35):
And, Paul, I can't thank youenough for your friendship and
what you're doing andcongratulations on you know,
getting through this year ofin-depth study and doing all the
things you're doing.
It's you're a better man thanme and smarter than I ever will
be, but and I love to see thatit's it's, it's people like you
that bring everybody up and thatpositive attitude and
(47:58):
willingness to help, and we'rehere to help.
We want to help.
We want to help people succeed.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
We can transform the world together, arnie.
We can't do it by ourselves.
That's the key.
I think, right.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Right on.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
And Wood is still cool.
Brother, wood is good.
I thought I was going to askyou, have you changed it again,
arnie?
But you've come out with.
Wood is cool.
I actually was going to say, doI ask him again or do I not?
But no, wood is cool, that'sgood.
You'll be able to hear arnie onthe main stage.
He'll be saying come on throughpeople, filter down the spots
(48:35):
at the front.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Wood is cool and that's good time great to talk
with you and looking forward toseeing everybody.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Uh, jesus, not too far away.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
March 25th comes quick not too far away at all.
25th comes quick, Not too faraway at all.
So just remember, hit theInternational Mass Timber
Conference website forregistration.
Look out for the early birdregistration.
Get your flights booked, whichis probably going to be an
important one.
Get your hotel booked probablymore important.
Book your tour.
Book your workshop.
Book your appointments on yourapp from March 1st to try and
make sure that you make themaximum use of the time while
(49:08):
you're in Portland.
Appointments on your app fromMarch 1st to try and make sure
that you make the maximum use ofthe time while you're in
Portland.
Make sure you look up whenyou're in the PDX and make sure
that you enjoy yourself and havegood conversations Right on,
brother.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Thank you.
Thanks, arnie, have a good one.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
This is the moment you all havebeen waiting for.
It's time for the globalsensation, the one, the only the
(00:26):
undisputed heavyweight podcastin the world the Mass Timber
Construction Podcast.
And now here's Paul Kramer,your host.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Good morning, good afternoon or good evening.
Wherever you are in the worldtoday, Welcome to the Mass
Timber Construction Podcast, andyou don't need to have an
introduction to this gentleman.
He's on every year.
It's now our annual catch-up.
He's on every year.
It's now our annual catch-up.
It's January 2025.
We're probably less than a fewmonths out from the
(01:09):
International Mass TimberConference and I'd like to
welcome Arnie to the podcast.
Arnie, welcome, Say hello tothe listeners.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Thanks, paul, appreciate you having me on
again.
It's nice that we keeprepeating this at about this
time.
So we're getting fired up forMarch 25th through the 27th at
the Oregon Convention Centeragain and got basically a whole
new agenda this year.
So it's just really exciting tosee what's happening.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, we'll get into that in a minute and I just want
to say this is the fifth yearwe've done this in a row.
My friend, this is being sortof COVID times.
We have um sprung out of thegate and things are on an upward
trajectory and it sounds like,from all the media coverage
(01:59):
that's currently available,we're a very proud media partner
with the team and the amount ofLinkedIn activity it's going to
be bigger than ever before,right?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, the energy is huge, I mean, and I think it's
indicative of the space itself.
You know you're seeing growtharound the world in all aspects
of, you know, sustainabledevelopment, mass timber as a
part of that, and others, andit's just encouraging to see it.
And you know, I don't mean itto be arrogant, but the
(02:35):
conference has kind of become ahome base for everybody that if
they can go to one place, youknow, and consolidate their
travel and, you know, see kindof all parts of the supply chain
at once.
And then obviously ours isheavy on education and
interactiveness and all of thosekind of things.
(02:56):
So that's what's driving it is.
There's so many real projects,so many real projects and
Portland considers to be, youknow, considered to be a what
they quote, unquote theinternational capital of mass
timber.
You know, I think there'smaking sense with so many
(03:16):
projects to choose from and andmanufacturing facilities and so
much political will in that areaof Oregon.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So I can't believe that you convinced the Portland
airport to put in a huge masstimber ceiling just for the
conference.
Is this true?
Is this rumor true?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, it's actually an interesting story because
that was presented and foundedat the conference.
Bill Browning gave the firstkind of sneak peek into that.
So many of the partners thatare part of the conference
played integral parts in thatparticular project and it's a
(03:57):
real showcase.
It's actually where one of thetours, which is about sold out
it does a pretty good in-depthlook at the airport and then the
Port of Portland is actuallygoing to be present at the
conference and they have what'scalled the T2, which is Terminal
(04:17):
2, which is expanding andbecoming a huge mecca for mass
timber testing modular units.
All of that that's part of thetour as well.
But yeah, you look at thepartners I hate to list them
because there's so many, butwhether it's ZGF or Timberlab or
(04:37):
Zip Laminators and WesternArchrib and on down the line,
it's Skanska, obviously a hugeplayer in that, and Swinerton
and so many partners touchedthat project and it's really a
showcase for the world to seewhat can be done.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, I've been impressed by the imagery that's
come out and people that come tothe conference will be able to
experience going through thismassive area with this mass
timber structure and it's a realgreat entry or foray into
coming into the city.
And then, of course, it's atthe infamous Portland Oregon
(05:22):
grounds that we've always held,with the Hyatt and obviously,
our famous rooftop bar thateveryone likes to go to either
before or after the event,depending on whether you're
having a breakfast meeting oryou're catching up for drinks
afterwards.
It's a great venue.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, they've really gone out of their way and
they're going to do a lot ofspecial things as people come in
to the airport.
You know, in 24, we had 38countries.
We're hoping to break 40 thisyear and it looks pretty likely.
And what's cool about that isit's real.
It's a real project.
I mean there's not many peoplethat can do that kind of a huge
(06:01):
scale project, but as you lookat it, that kind of a huge scale
project.
But as you look at it, there'smultiple airport projects around
the world happening and othertypes of projects.
But it really shows aninteresting dynamic in terms of
what sustainable buildingpractices can mean and how you
can accomplish a huge goal likethat.
(06:22):
How you can accomplish a hugegoal like that.
And I give them so much credit.
And it definitely helpsshowcase mass timber at the
International Mass TimberConference when you got an
airport like that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, it's an impressive project and there
will be people who have workedon that project.
So anyone listening that'sinternational going.
How do I catch up on the supplychain or the way that the
procurement worked, or the waythat the procurement worked or
the way that the constructionhappened or the way the
logistics worked in aninternational airport?
You can probably catch up withpeople at the conference, which
(06:54):
is another great reason to youknow.
Book your ticket, book youraccommodation and get down to
Portland and on top of that,you've got one of the biggest
exhibitions happening in theconference ever.
Right, there's more space beingconsumed now than ever.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, we have the.
You know, go back in the daywhere we had a quarter of the
facility.
Now we have the entire facilityof the facility.
Now we have the entire facility.
We just crossed 200 exhibitors.
To put that perspective, in2016, we had 28.
So it's pretty dramatic andthey're all bigger and so we're
taking the entire footprint.
(07:37):
Very, very interactive.
You've got Woodworks is doing alive build of a building inside
the facility.
Again, this is the second yearand that's going to be kind of
on steroids and doing even more.
The Union Brotherhood ofCarpenters and Plenaries are
(07:58):
putting on a showcase of youknow kind of hands on activities
Multiple, multi, multi storyexhibit spaces to show off
products.
Yeah, it's a different kind ofa style and, like I said, you
know, we kind of reinvented theentire conference because of the
(08:19):
need for additionalopportunities for education
first, and then networking aswell, and then how do you expose
people to the new products?
And that's really happening,you know, and it's really cool
to see it unfold.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think that there's been a genesis of activity
that's happening in Oregon, withthe two universities getting
some significant grant fundingrecently to look at mass timber,
volume, social and otherhousing, and you've got this
(08:56):
vocational education comingthrough with the building of the
building in the exhibition hall, and so we've really got the
whole gamut right.
Higher education's beingcovered, but also down to what
does it mean for tradespeopleand what does it mean to
actually practically put thingstogether.
And then across that you've gotmachine and equipment suppliers
and you've got software peoplethat come through that help
(09:18):
complete the ensemble of thesupply and fabrication supply
chain.
So really, there's something foreverybody, no matter where you
come from in the supply chain,from forestry right down to
trades on site.
There's something in there foreveryone, right?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yeah, it's.
You know we always start withthe forest first and then you go
from there to these beautiful,incredible buildings and
projects that are being donearound the world and you know
you're going to have chances tosee that.
You know.
I mean, we have actually fivetours this year, you know, and
(09:55):
we had to make hard choices.
There was, you know, 50, 60applications for those 15 slots
and they show the whole gamut.
You know you got all the wayfrom an airport to a modular ADU
unit that you can put in yourbackyard made out of CLT.
You've got an opportunity to govisit which is a huge, huge,
(10:20):
growing aspect of mass timber iswarehouses.
So you know you got companies,the big name companies, pro
logistics, going to presentaround why they built mass
timber warehouses.
You know you got the Frearscompany with their MPP, the mass
plywood product prettyincredible.
(10:40):
You know dynamic product thatare getting showed off.
But then you've got, you know,forestry tour.
You've got manufacturing ofbolts.
You know the Portland Bolt ishosting a tour.
So you know, all of a suddenyou get pretty in-depth and then
you get some really interestingbuildings that you're going to
have one shot to see them andthen they close up because some
(11:03):
of them are pretty securityfilled and all that other stuff.
But as part of that goes, itjust showcases what can be done.
And, as Craig Rawlings, mybusiness partner a lot of people
know him that'll be listening,but Craig always says
entrepreneurs win the day andthat's what we're seeing now in
(11:24):
this mass timber space.
You know, roloblast is comingup with new fasteners or Hilti
is coming up with a new firestop.
I mean there's all kinds ofproduct additions that are
coming to the table, along withmanufacturing facilities like
solder, timber, timber and andother folks like that.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
pretty cool to see it unfold and I think a big shout
out has to go out to the uhorganizing committee, and my
good friend, nick houston fromaustralia, who's formerly from
the uk, is on that committeewith you and it seems that the
agenda that's starting to comeout at the moment is really
robust.
Tell us about some of the keyhighlights coming through from
(12:08):
the committee that you'vedecided.
This is the direction we'regoing and these are the people
we're bringing to the stage.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, nick is a great addition.
He's actually moderating apanel around moisture control
and managing those projects,which is that was actually the
highest rated program in 2024was the one around moisture and
coatings.
So we've got several folks likeSanson and others, timberpro,
(12:39):
hermajink and others that arecoming to the table with their
products.
But when I say we reinvented it, in a sense we did.
If you can imagine, the mosteducation sessions we've ever
had at the conference was in2024, with 16, which is a lot.
This year there's 24.
So it's really focused andthere's a couple of pretty
(13:06):
significant new things happeningon the agenda.
So Tuesday is the day of thetours.
That kick off everything andthen you have the big reception.
But what we've done is we'restarting the tours earlier,
we're streamlining them to geteverybody back by three o'clock
to the Oregon Convention Center,because the conference actually
(13:27):
kicks off at three o'clock in abig way on that Tuesday.
Prior to that, woodworks, ourco-producer, is hosting a Mass
Timber 101.
That's a workshop that's reallyworth your time going to.
It's got lots of informationthat will kick that off.
(13:48):
That starts at 1230 that dayand that stops before the 3 pm.
But we have two keynote panelsprior to the reception and the
idea is to stimulateconversation at that networking
event and then throughout theconference and then the sessions
(14:09):
are tied all the way through.
But as an example we have it'scalled sustainable lumber, and
where does engineered woodproducts fit into that?
Well, we've got the presidentof Georgia Pacific going to talk
, fritz, and we've got Monicafrom Boise Cascade and Katie
(14:29):
from Weyerhaeuser and Jason fromRedbilt in Hampton.
You know big, big producingcompanies that aren't always
about mass timber but they'reabout sustainable lumber
production as well andengineered lumber products.
You know, and they're going totalk as kind of an open forum.
(14:50):
Pete Stewart's the moderator.
He's been around, everybodyknows him in the industry for 30
years.
Really interesting kickoff.
Simultaneously we have the headof the union with actual
(15:15):
contractors that built buildingsand Jason from Woodworks who's
very instrumental in all theactual processing of the
buildings.
Buildings they're going to beon a separate stage talking
about safety, which is a hugetopic, and talking about real
world application techniques,and then you can take that
forward and go on the floor andsee those in use.
So that's a totally new thingthat we're doing.
(15:38):
We think it makes sense.
People are there, they're readyto go and you know the workshop
has a little additional cost tocover the stuff in it.
That's through Woodworks andit's a really great program.
But then there's 3 to 4 pm onTuesday and then at 4 is the big
, you know, kind of openingreception and then people, you
(16:00):
know that goes to about six andthen people go out.
So that's a really interestingstart.
We're really jacked to see howit goes.
We think it's going to be veryembraced and get some really
high profile people.
But again, it's all aboutsparking conversations and
dialogue during the conference.
And then what can you do tomake things happen, to solve
(16:24):
some issues?
And that's where the otherkeynotes come in and in the
sessions.
So really, um, a fun way tostart and we're just happy that
you know these people, reallyhigh level people that have a
lot to say, a lot to give cancome to the table and really
share you, you know, sparkconversations basically.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think it's a brilliant idea, I think, create
the genesis of ideation in themind, then allow people to
explore and then let that tocontinue to a point.
And, of course, my favorite isthat welcoming event, because
it's the first time all theexhibitors are set up,
everyone's in the hall, everyonefilters through, you get to see
(17:05):
all the exhibitors are set up,everyone's in the hall, everyone
filters through.
You get to see all the latestand greatest and catch up with
people before you head out andyou have a bite to eat and then
settle down for the evening.
And it's probably one of themost joyful and probably the
most important networkingsessions.
And, of course, is the app backthis year.
So can I go on the app and planto meet you, arnie, at
(17:28):
Skanska's or Timberlabs stand at, you know, 4.30 in the
afternoon in that event time, sothat we can catch up and say
hello and exchange a businesscard and then later on
potentially go out for dinner.
Can I organize all that beforethe event?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
on, potentially go out for dinner.
Can I organize all that beforethe event?
Yeah, that's a great point andwe invested a lot into that,
energy and money to get it evenbetter and that actually will
come live.
March 1st is the expected datefor that to be live.
And, just like you said, it's alittle bit like LinkedIn you
got to be careful with, you knowall of the security and all of
(18:07):
that kind of stuff and privacyrules, but it's yeah.
Hey, paul, this is Arnie.
I'm interested in talking toyou about XYZ.
Oh yeah, I'd like to do that.
That's part of it.
And then there's some formalthings happening at night,
particularly Wednesday night.
You know, woodworks has a bigevent with the Wood Innovation
Network, and then something westarted this year and I give
(18:32):
them a lot of credit.
Aaron from Swinerton andWhitney with Skanska and our
Shelby who's with the MassTimber Conference, along with
several others, put together awomen in timber event.
Last year it was during the,during the conference break, but
this year it's so big we'reexpecting 500 or more folks at
(18:57):
that.
It's not just for women, it'sfor you know, but it's focused
in that direction.
Non-binary and that, that.
But it's focused in thatdirection, non-binary and that.
But that's actually right afterthe conference, social ends at
530 on Wednesday.
So that's going to be a verybig event.
(19:18):
But you've got lots of thosekind of things doing it going on
.
But what we did is we theschedule.
We always have big breaks andwe're going to do that, and we
have a big lunch and a very nicelunch by business partner.
Tom's a total foodie and wenever skimp on that.
It's really good food, but italso is a way for people to talk
(19:39):
and then later on, after youknow the session was pretty,
pretty intense, you can go havea beer, cup of coffee, whatever
it is, and we have expanded that.
But then ended the hours alittle bit earlier so people can
go to dinners, can go to dothings.
Portland's such a cool town totake advantage of, um, it just
(20:01):
all kind of ties together the.
The flow feels really good.
But you know, there's a coupleof things that are new.
One really big thing that's newis case studies.
So case studies are kind ofhard because sometimes they feel
like an infomercial, you know,and you just don't want that.
(20:21):
So we have expected them tobring real numbers to the table
and we had, I think, 80submissions for 10 slots.
Very tough to pick those.
The list is going to beincredible.
That is going to be posted herein the next week.
And so there's kind of mini casestudies.
They get 15 to 20 minutes tosay this was the challenge, this
(20:44):
was the project, this is how wedid it.
Here's the basics.
Boom, boom, boom.
We can talk in depth and we'reopen to meet with you and talk
about how we got it done.
So that's a new big deal.
We have advanced topics, whichis like an advanced workshop run
by some of the best kind ofengineers from your world and
(21:06):
architects of the world thatwe've handpicked for that Really
intricate things, you know, andall the CE credits that go with
that.
And then we have a couple ofreally in-depth case studies.
We call them.
One is the Microsoft datacenter that was just built.
(21:31):
So those folks are going topresent real things and how they
got it done, very in-depth,60-minute type, in-depth about
materials and choices and whythey did this and why they did
that.
So you got the Microsoft one.
And then on top of that we'regoing to have Brian Brashaw is
moderating this and he's beenintermittently involved in the
(21:54):
birth of Mass Timber and it'sabout the Walmart project which
we got a chance to visit lastOctober.
It's extraordinary.
I mean, it's beyondextraordinary.
You walk into the fitnesscenter for the employees of
Walmart and it's all mass timberand it's dramatic.
And that campus alone is goingto have upwards of 15,000 people
(22:20):
working at it and they're goingto have 10 or 12 mass timber
buildings by the time it's saidand done on that campus.
So really intriguing to get aninsider look at that project.
That's, you know, kind of a bignew thing that's happening and
(22:41):
exciting, you know, to see thatkind of energy in real projects.
And that's kind of the themethis year going forward is these
are real and how do you tweakit to make it even better.
So yeah, really informative Ibelieve it's going to be.
We're testing some things out.
There's going to be a lot ofinteractive things happening as
(23:03):
well in the sessions, out of thesessions, in the networking
time and the app you mentionedand some of the other things
that are going to be available.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think that's brilliant and I am finishing off
a paper at the moment and it'scalled A Decade in Mass Timber,
and so I personally have pinnedStathouse and the Forte building
here in Melbourne as being thefirst sort of global foray into
volume mass timber buildings inthe world to start this genesis
(23:34):
of the current spread.
So if that was happening insort of 2009 to 2012, you know,
my very first big publishedpaper on mass timber is 2015.
So 2025 is a decade, so it's agreat bookend.
And if I look at the immensechange that's happened and if we
follow that same trajectorybased on the the international
(23:56):
mass timber conference, 2016 tonow, next year will be its, its
decade.
Right, it is huge change and Iagree with you.
We we struggled back in theearly days to get evidence-based
case studies, so we hadquantity surveyors compare
concrete and mass timberbuildings and look at
preliminaries and add backs, buta lot of it was theoretical Now
(24:19):
to have these tangible casesand people like Microsoft and
Walmart being involved inprojects.
I had a question Did you getGoogle to come on board at the
conference this year?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, yeah, they're in a big way.
You know they've presentedbefore they just did the new
project, one of the new projectsthere.
There are multiple folks fromthere are attending and talking.
You know, in addition to youknow, when I mentioned these
case studies, there's multipleinternational case studies as
well, and they're not all big,huge projects.
(24:55):
There's some regular projectsthat everyday people and
developers are going to be ableto do.
You know, one of our partnersthis year again is ULI, the
Urban Land Institute, both theworldwide one and then ULI
Northwest, and they're bringingin a whole cadre of developers
(25:16):
with real numbers and thingslike that and bringing that to
the table.
You know, those parts andpieces are what drive the
business, you know, in the end,and it's exciting.
The other thing that's happeningand like I said it's basically
been reinvented.
(25:36):
The opening keynote is a paneland that's on Wednesday morning.
So most people in this spaceknow Thomas Robinson.
It happens to be his hometown,right, and they're doing a
project with multiple partnersand they're going to unveil a
bunch of that.
(25:56):
But they've got $300 millionworth of mass timber projects
going in this one area and thearea can be replicated in terms
of in other communities and it'sabout bringing communities
together.
It happens to be in anAfrican-American area that
(26:19):
there's a lot of history to thatand that's going to be
discussed.
But more in depth than that,it's real.
There's projects being built,already built in the future.
So that keynote is going tospark lots of conversations and
the idea behind that is it'sreal projects.
(26:39):
There's an incredible museumthat the person's going to talk
about and how they were able todo a lot of interactive stuff
because of the sustainabilitydesign and all of that goes into
that again sparkingconversation.
And then on Thursday we have agroup of people.
It's going to be reallyinteresting, some of your old
(27:00):
friends Paul King from Built byNature is going to be on that
panel, lucas Epp fromStructureCraft, amy Helig from
Ball Software and then anotherindividual his name is Scott
Francisco and the idea behindthat.
That's a little bit more of afuturistic look and it's you
(27:22):
know, hey, there is still somebarriers out there.
We're going to talk a littlebit about that, but then they're
going to talk about how youincorporate AI into the solution
, how you incorporate some ofthis structural analysis
processes that Amy and Lucas areexperts on.
You got Scott and Paul lookingat it from a policy side and
(27:46):
what's worked, what's not worked, and we have a partnership with
Built by Nature and really havea lot of common bonds.
But that I'm excited about totie in the whole thing and then
that leads itself into the lastday, on Thursday.
But when you look at it it'sabout reality, probably more
(28:09):
than ever, because there is somany projects out there, there's
production coming on stream,there's new products coming to
the table.
You know a couple of the bigbuckets of new products.
One I mentioned earlier is thiswarehouse space and the data
center space.
Huge opportunities there forsustainable buildings, let alone
(28:33):
the modularization of products.
I was on a project that wassupplied by Kalisnikov and done
by some really cool people PeterRose out of the Boston area
really cool people.
Peter Rose out of the Bostonarea, his architect firm
designed it and then his firmsfrom Europe and elsewhere put it
(28:55):
together.
But essentially modular,stackable workforce housing done
in CLT, and Craig Tom andmyself and my wife Debbie and
Carol Craig's wife got to go seethat the Friday after our
Thanksgiving.
And what's intriguing aboutthat is it's real.
(29:16):
I mean, kalisnikov is going tohave a booth showing off
products that are ready for sale.
So you want to do a workforcehousing project?
They're ready.
You want to do an affordablehousing project?
They're ready.
You want to do an affordablehousing project?
They're ready.
You want to do some otherthings in that gamut that seem
to make sense.
Maybe it's an ADU in thebackyard because you need
(29:38):
additional revenue to float yourmortgage or whatever.
That, or mother-in-law suite orman cave or whatever you want
to call it.
There's some opportunitiesthere.
That modularization do you knowbetter than anybody can be a
very big part of the solution.
We're going to have those unitson the floor.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
That's impressive and I think being ready is an
important distinction, more nowthan ever, with an urban
expansion and a densificationcondition.
An important distinction, morenow than ever, with, you know,
an urban expansion and adensification condition that
exists in most modern cities.
With migration patternschanging and pressures put on
social systems, we need to lookat different ways and this
(30:22):
phenomena is global, it's notjust local.
It's happening here inMelbourne, it's happening over
there, where you are, it'shappening all over the place.
And then, obviously, there'sthis drive to obviously meet the
Paris Accord and 2030, 2040,2050 emissions targets.
All of this needs to beconsidered as part of the total
solution and I'm so pleased tobe associated with you know,
(30:45):
yourselves and the wider globalcommunity in trying to find
strategies and initiatives andbe entrepreneurial, as you
mentioned in, you know,configuring a way forward.
Who's going to be the big namesthat are coming?
I know I ask you every year andsometimes you can't tell me
because it's under embargo, butcan you give us a bit of a taste
(31:07):
of as to who's coming through?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Well, the way I would look at that is think of the
technology companies Google,facebook, amazon, microsoft all
attending, all talking aboutwhat they're doing.
Then, all of a sudden, you goto multiple layers of people
(31:33):
from Europe and in New Zealandand Australia and all parts of
Asia coming in.
You know, when you have 40countries represented, we've got
delegations coming from Korea,from Taiwan I mean multiple
delegations coming in becausethey can see all parts of the
(31:58):
supply chain at one time.
So, but at the same time, it'snot too rushed.
You know there's a lot ofinformation coming at you, but
one of the things we're alsodoing is we started the
International Mass Timber Reportin 2019.
And this year we're going backto our roots in a sense, but
(32:22):
that report is actually going tobe over 300 pages this year
report is actually going to beover 300 pages this year.
Real numbers associated withreal pricing, pricing indexes,
all kinds of information in thatreport.
And you're not only going toget a PDF this year, but we
(32:43):
invested to have everybody get ahard copy.
It's expensive as heck to getthose printed, but we think it's
worth it because it's going tobe in hand.
You're going to get to feel itand touch it.
But you mentioned universitiesearlier.
We actually have one specialLunch and Learn that's going to
be led by.
I think that I saw VirginiaTech is on it.
University of Arkansas, peter,our friend Peter there is on it.
(33:05):
Our University of Arkansas,peter, our friend Peter.
There.
Michigan State's on that andthat's going to be a special
session around what are we doingon curriculum for mass timber,
you know, and wood and thosekinds of things.
So they're going to bediscussing that at length.
We're actually going to theSoftwood Lumber Board is really
(33:26):
excited about that, and sothey're going to have actually
it's going to be like a lunchand learn on top of the session
Something new.
It's just another new piecethat comes to the table.
It's a way to sparkconversations but actual results
.
So a combination of all thoseuniversities, then these
(33:50):
manufacturers come into thetable, all the pieces and parts
within that, and then really bigconstruction companies.
You know you talked about, likeyou know, xl construction and
Turner construction and you knowworldwide companies Cree is
going to be there.
You know they have a booth thisyear, weyerhaeuser has a booth.
(34:11):
So you know, all of a suddenyou start seeing that and then
you got a lot of startups thatare going to be showing projects
and products.
We're helping facilitate that.
So you're going to see some bigdisplays.
One thing I would mention,obviously in your space, the
academia we do the postersessions.
(34:32):
Again, that was just posted onLinkedIn and social media.
Around these poster sessionsthey get a huge amount of press.
I mean because people want tosee that, they want to feel it,
those students most of them arePhD students that are presenting
at that and it's going to be alive, interactive piece.
(34:54):
The Tallwood Institute you knowthat joint venture between
University of Oregon and OregonState.
They've got a big space.
So it's just, and then it's.
You know, it's just fun, youknow, because you're around
people.
One of the other things we did,I mean it just goes on and on.
It's fun.
But one of the ideas was tocreate four cafes we call them
(35:17):
within the exhibit hall so youcan go have a cup of coffee,
have a beer outside of that mainarea.
Frears is hosting that hugearea in the middle.
There's going to be all kindsof fun, cool games happening in
there.
You know it's fun to bullshit.
At the end of the day, you gotall this information coming at
(35:37):
you.
But these cafes Weining ishosting one, the SFI those folks
, which are awesome is hostingone, the Port of Portland, and
then actually another company ishosting one.
We're going to do testingaround, monitoring around that
and that's going to be reallycool to see.
(35:59):
So, yeah, we're just kind offired up when you get into the
agenda, which is almost it'sprobably 90 percent posted on
the website now, with who'sgoing to talk and what the basic
talks are.
You know, yeah, it's just kindof all facets, but we determine
(36:20):
the content from the committeeand then we do discovery
meetings.
You know hundreds of thosethroughout the year and that's
how we decided we need to havesustainable lumber and
(36:40):
engineered wood products fromoutside the mass timber space
because people want to knowabout that.
We need to talk about safetyand proper installation.
People need to know those kindof things.
We need to talk about a real,significant project.
That's why Thomas Robinson ishosting that keynote.
We need to talk about AI andsome of the structural analysis
and architectural analysis,projects and possibilities out
(37:01):
there, because that's comingevery day quicker and quicker.
And then I guess you know,going back to something I
mentioned earlier, this women intimber thing.
Who would have ever thoughtwe're going to have 500 people
at that thing?
And it's fun and they do coolthings and they have.
You know, it's encouraging.
(37:22):
And then everybody goes out andhas dinner and has a beer or
whatever it is and tries torally for the next day and not
be too hung over it's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
It sounds like the star of the show is the planet,
because there's just so muchcoming from a global perspective
that, uh yeah, it's so diverse.
You know there isn't oneconcentrated element, and so I
guess that leads me to someadvice for listeners.
If you've come for the firsttime we haven't been for a while
(37:53):
make sure you plan whichsessions you're going to go to.
Go on the website now.
Have a look at the program.
That's 90% complete.
Plan out where you're going togo.
Look at the app when it opensup March 1st and see who you
want to connect with and reallymake the most of the time,
because it goes so quickly.
It is just a flash in the panand it's over, and then
(38:16):
everyone's saying goodbye andit's another 12 months, and then
the 12 months actually justgets shorter and shorter.
For us, arnie, it seems likeonly yesterday I was speaking to
you about this very thing.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, and we're implementing some things to make
it easy to continueconversations, both with the app
and on our expanded website.
That includes the reportfeatures and those kind of
things.
But you know, the other adviceI would tell you is you know
there's only a few spots left onthese tours on Tuesday and the
(38:52):
workshop.
So the workshop has a lot ofmeat to it.
It's a really great starter onTuesday to get your juices
flowing.
Woodworks does an incrediblejob, bill Parsons and his team.
If you can do that workshop onTuesday afternoon, that's an
awesome place to go, or one ofthe tours.
(39:12):
And then I would encourage youknow people as they plan be at
those 3 pm keynotes right beforethe four o'clock reception.
You know, it's just a great way.
You're getting to hear somepeople.
You might want to meet them.
You might want to meet somebody.
You're sitting next to gettingto hear some people.
You might want to meet them.
You might want to meet somebodyyou're sitting next to.
(39:32):
And what a better way.
You just go down the hall andtimber labs is buying a beer for
everybody again, which isawesome.
Thank you, chris evans and andthat whole team and they're
growing.
But you know, you got beers inthere or water, whatever you
want, snacks and then you knowjust a couple hours of
networking and then you go doyour dinner thing.
But take advantage of it.
(39:54):
The other thing I can'trecommend high enough is we
serve a full breakfast onWednesday and Thursday.
It's seven to eight or it'slike 645 to 745.
And it's designed that way.
You come in.
It's amazing how fast they canserve people.
Great breakfast, set up ameeting at breakfast and then
(40:18):
you go to the keynote at 8o'clock, you know, because we
kind of shut it down at 745.
So you got a kind of a windowthere.
It's worth getting up for it.
It's always great to have somefood to start the day.
It's healthy food.
Have a cup of coffee and thenyou hit that.
You get a nice break and thenfocus to your point.
(40:39):
Paul, pick out which ones youwant to go see.
It's always a hard choice.
And then you got anothernetworking event with a great
lunch.
You should have a meetingplanned already and then you go
to the sessions you want in theafternoon and then you have, you
know, wednesday we have anotherreception, the women in timber
thing going on.
(41:00):
Very cool opportunities tonetwork, connect, dig deep and
have fun.
You know, I mean, there'snothing wrong with us having fun
at a conference.
It doesn't need to be boring,it needs you got to have
networking capabilities.
You got to have educationalresources, ce credits, those
(41:23):
things are all very important.
Along, you know, having goodfood helps, having camaraderie,
live interactive products, newproducts that are coming to the
table.
You start hitting those four orfive main things and then it's
just up to you as an individual.
It's a great investment, it's aninvestment in time, it's an
(41:48):
investment in money.
We understand that.
So again, the tours are gettingclose to sold out, literally.
The hotels may be sold outalready.
The ones right next door,they're getting really close.
But we've got commitments fromlike five or six others.
So there's rooms available.
But I would get on that prettyquick.
(42:08):
And then you know there's stillit's a discount period.
You know that ends.
I think it's the 18th or 19thof February.
You know you still get a nicediscount off the initial price.
It's expensive, you know I.
I mean I look at spending $200for a hotel room.
I think that's crazy.
But I'm an old farm boy.
But you know you go to LosAngeles or San Francisco or
(42:32):
Chicago.
It's 500 bucks.
That's why Portland'sattractive that way.
It's a big investment.
One thing I would say about theexhibitors that I learned
through our partners Trifecta isa normal return rate of
exhibitors to a conference likethis is 70, 73 percent.
We're 97, 98.
(42:57):
And there's a reason for that.
The exhibitors make money.
They make, they get leads.
They make money at the show.
They do projects at the show,they sell equipment, they sell
products.
They get to see a lot of people.
At one time you know this had3,000 people.
We think it's going to be 3,500or more this year.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
It's brilliant and a great way to round it off, and I
just want to say thank you somuch for allowing us to partner
with you.
We've been running the ads forthe conference on the podcast
for oh, I reckon nine months now, or something like that.
It's some ridiculous number andwe firmly believe in it.
(43:37):
We back it, we support you, wesupport global expansion for the
technology and it's a privilegeto have you on the podcast
every year Without fail.
You answer the email, you comeon, you give us a great rundown
and it's just a privilege to bepart of it and you, tom and
Craig and everyone else behindthe scenes in the team, plus the
(43:59):
committee members, it's yeah.
Thank you so much for puttingon an amazing event.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
So you always want to get something right.
The big announcement.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (44:12):
I'm ready.
It's not going to come outuntil next week on the PR
release and it's exciting.
Give me the scoop.
So Craig, tom and I made adecision with Trifecta and have
partnered to commit to multipleyears with the conference.
(44:32):
So we're here to stay.
Hopefully everybody likes that,but it's so fun for us, we're
so excited to be a part of it.
The Jennifer and Bill atWoodworks are just huge partners
of ours.
We can't say enough about thatpartnership People like yourself
who have supported us from dayone.
(44:53):
And I agree with you, we allneed to lift everybody up and
encourage the sharing ofdialogue and new ideas.
I think the conference doesthat.
It's March 25th to the 27th.
You just go on theInternational Mass Timber
website.
You know it's easy to see theagenda and see what's being
(45:15):
unfolded.
Those case studies are going tobe populated over the next week
, but we just love to sharethings and bring people to the
table and we're excited to be apart of that go forward for the
next several years to come andit's it's a blessing and we know
that and the people around usthese attendees and exhibitors
(45:40):
and sponsors are friends andcolleagues and lifelong
partnerships and it's reallygreat to see people succeeding.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That's brilliant.
Look, I always tell this storyintermittently to people that I
speak to or on the podcast.
Back in 2016, 2017, when wewere setting up the X-Land
plants here in Australia, Iwould be struggling to find 10,
15 articles about mass timberprojects any month around the
(46:12):
world.
Now that's sort of 20 plus aweek, and I have to be really
discriminant about which ones Iput on the LinkedIn feed or talk
about on the weekly update oron the podcast.
So the growth is exponential.
And to hear that you guys arestaying on for another defined
period of time as part of theconference, I think you,
(46:36):
collectively, are the soul of ofthe conference and I think
that's an important thing to toacknowledge, because conferences
are about people.
Uh, you know, my my role hereis to create that conversation
and keep the conversation going.
Yours is exactly the same, sowe're aligned in that, and I
just think that's why it'ssuccessful, because people want
(46:58):
to be party to a conversation,they want to be listened to in
the conversation, they want tolearn something from a
conversation.
I think those three things arevitally related to what we do
collectively.
So thank you so much for allyou do.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah, I appreciate that and don't hesitate to reach
out.
I'm available.
Craig Rawlings is available.
Tom Waddell, Shelby, Nelson.
You know, Melissa, we'reavailable.
Just LinkedIn's a great placeto reach out, email, whatever
you want.
But we're ready to help andready to serve and just love
this industry and it's it's ourheart and soul.
(47:35):
And, Paul, I can't thank youenough for your friendship and
what you're doing andcongratulations on you know,
getting through this year ofin-depth study and doing all the
things you're doing.
It's you're a better man thanme and smarter than I ever will
be, but and I love to see thatit's it's, it's people like you
that bring everybody up and thatpositive attitude and
(47:58):
willingness to help, and we'rehere to help.
We want to help.
We want to help people succeed.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
We can transform the world together, arnie.
We can't do it by ourselves.
That's the key.
I think, right.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Right on.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
And Wood is still cool.
Brother, wood is good.
I thought I was going to askyou, have you changed it again,
arnie?
But you've come out with.
Wood is cool.
I actually was going to say, doI ask him again or do I not?
But no, wood is cool, that'sgood.
You'll be able to hear arnie onthe main stage.
He'll be saying come on throughpeople, filter down the spots
(48:35):
at the front.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
Wood is cool and that's good time great to talk
with you and looking forward toseeing everybody.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Uh, jesus, not too far away.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
March 25th comes quick not too far away at all.
25th comes quick, Not too faraway at all.
So just remember, hit theInternational Mass Timber
Conference website forregistration.
Look out for the early birdregistration.
Get your flights booked, whichis probably going to be an
important one.
Get your hotel booked probablymore important.
Book your tour.
Book your workshop.
Book your appointments on yourapp from March 1st to try and
make sure that you make themaximum use of the time while
(49:08):
you're in Portland.
Appointments on your app fromMarch 1st to try and make sure
that you make the maximum use ofthe time while you're in
Portland.
Make sure you look up whenyou're in the PDX and make sure
that you enjoy yourself and havegood conversations Right on,
brother.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Thank you.
Thanks, arnie, have a good one.
Thank you.
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