Horticultural journeys often begin in unexpected ways. For Colin Jones, head gardener at Salterbridge Gardens, it started with his grandfather's fruit patch and eventually led to prestigious gardens across Ireland and Scotland. Now managing a magnificent private estate in Waterford, Colin brings passion, expertise and global perspective to garden creation.
The transformation of Salterbridge under Colin's stewardship has been remarkable. Over just three years, he's planted 1,600 trees and shrubs, developed stunning herbaceous borders, and created a breathtaking cutting garden that became the focal point for a family wedding. His approach combines practical wisdom with artistic vision – focusing on infrastructure before planting, limiting varieties while increasing quantities of signature plants like Verbena 'Bampton', and selecting hero plants including 28 varieties of dahlias.
What sets Colin's work apart is his deep understanding of plants in their natural context. His plant-finding expeditions to Yunnan in Southwest China have profoundly influenced his design philosophy. Witnessing Thalictrum delavayi growing alongside Hypericum forrestii in the wild inspired combinations he's recreated at Salterbridge. As he explains, "If you can go to where a plant originates and see how it's growing, you have a better understanding straight away of what conditions it needs."
Colin's insights extend beyond professional gardens to practical advice for home gardeners. From navigating challenges with deer to balancing gardening with family life, his experiences resonate with anyone trying to create beauty within constraints. His philosophy that "the best way to keep a plant is to give it away" speaks to the deeper connections gardening creates between people and places.
Experience Salterbridge Gardens for yourself by arranging a group visit, or catch Colin's upcoming talks about his horticultural adventures. Whether you're planning your own cutting garden or simply appreciate the art of thoughtful garden design, Colin's journey from apprentice to master offers inspiration for gardeners at every level.
You can contact Colin Here: salterbridge.gardens@gmail.com
If there is any topic you would like covered in future episodes, please let me know.
Email: info@mastermygarden.com
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Until next week
Happy gardening
John
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
how's it going, everybody, and welcome to
episode 282 of master, my gardenpodcast.
Now, this week's episode I'mlooking forward to, uh, and I'm
chatting with colin jones.
So colin was a speaker at budsand blossoms a couple of weeks
ago and gave a brilliantpresentation on creating a
cutting garden, or a cut flowergarden, from scratch and over
the course of a season, withsome time pressures in it, but
(00:34):
it was a brilliant.
It was a brilliant presentation, fabulous looking garden, what
ended up being a beautiful space, with some challenges along the
way, but it's a great story andit's going to be interesting to
hear how someone can create,you know, their own cutting
garden at home.
We spoke about it a little biton the podcast before, but maybe
we would kind of delve into itfrom start to finish and what
(00:57):
somebody might need to do andpossible plants and so on.
But that's not the only stringto the bow.
He's the head gardener inSalter Bridge Gardens, which is
a private garden, can open to,you know, open to groups and
tours.
He's a fantastichorticulturalist, has been on
many, I suppose, plant findingtrips around the world.
(01:18):
We'll hear about some of those.
So yeah, look, there's loads,loads to chat about.
As I say, a fantastic gardenerwho I've known for a little
while but only recently spoke tohim for the first time at, as I
say, buds and blossoms.
So golly, you're very, verywelcome to master my garden
podcast thanks very much, john.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Great to be here.
I've been listening for a longtime, so it's exciting to
finally be on with you yeah,yeah, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Uh.
There's loads of people thatyou know I've been trying to get
on and you've been on the radarfor a long time and, yeah, we
finally got to catch up, Isuppose, at Buds and Blossoms a
couple of weeks ago.
So, lovely, lovely to have youon at last Loads we can talk
about.
There's a wide array of topics,I guess before we get into
(01:59):
Salter Bridge and you know thecreating of a cutting garden,
just a little bit about yourhorticultural sort of journey so
far and you know what has takenyou from getting into gardening
horticulture to where you aretoday in head gardener in Salter
Bridge.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Okay, no, bother, I suppose it goes back a long time
.
I remember my grandfather whenI was five or six, you know he
used to grow it was mostly fruit, I seem to recall he grew and
then, um, uh, my father, he hada big fruit and veg patch um,
back where I was growing up inthe country as well.
Now, conveniently for him, heworked offshore, so he was only
(02:36):
there two weeks and then gonefor another two weeks.
So it was up to me to lookafter the rest of it, or a lot
of it, me and my brother andsister.
And then, um, yeah, uh, fromthere I developed a bit.
I wouldn't say I disliked it,but, um, it kind of fell out
with me for a long time.
Like you know, I went away andmoved into Aberdeen, the near
city to me, ended up workingsecurity, um things like that.
(03:02):
My very first job when I leftschool actually was a landscaper
, um, doing that for a summer.
And then season ended and Imoved out of home so I needed,
needed something to pay the rent.
So I kind of fell into securityand ended up doing that for a
few years, which I don't thinkthat did me any favors, but
after a while there I kind ofstarted thinking you know what
it is I want to do?
(03:22):
So?
A local agricultural show.
Our horticultural college had astand there, so my auntie
happened to be there and she gota flyer, gave it to me.
I applied.
I actually forgot to put astamp on the envelope when I
sent it off, so I'm very luckythat they paid the postage and
accepted me onto the courseanyway.
So I'm up in the very northeastof Scotland and near Aberdeen, a
(03:46):
wee town called Elgin, and thiswas about five and a half hours
southwest, near anybody who'sgotten the boat off to Scotland
and probably sailed to Stranraer, so it was about an hour north
of there.
So I was there for I did whatwas called the diploma back then
.
So it was a fairly basic courseand then a gap year work in
which I did way up in the verynorth of Scotland, the place
(04:07):
called the Castle of May, andthen they got us back for
another year and I stayed on foranother year to get my higher
national diploma it was calledso.
Then from there I bouncedaround a bit in Scotland, worked
at a few, a few private estatesand things like that, and then
I got offered a job, veryluckily at uh belly finn.
I know a lot of people probablyknow in county leash they're a
(04:28):
very exclusive hotel with afantastic garden there and that
was great.
That was one of the things thatreally you know was a defining
moment, like I got to come overand anybody who's been there
will know that it's a fantasticgarden but also getting to work
under a very well-known gardendesigner, jim Reynolds, who was
the MD at the time and had agreat influence in the garden.
(04:48):
So I worked there for a fewyears and then decided that I
kind of needed to get a bit moreexperience, so again bounced
around a little bit here andthere and then I ended up at
Ducketts Grove in County Carlow.
I was there for I think twoyears, something like that, yeah
, so I was a project manager umdeveloping the, the upper walled
garden, which is where I firstmet robert
(05:10):
miller of alamont, and again,that was another, another great
moment getting to know robertand seeing his passion and
getting to.
He's a very good networker,robert, as well.
So getting to know a load ofpeople.
As you know, robert knowseverybody like, so it's great to
get to know people through that.
And um, robert actually helpedme as well when I applied for a
job with um the opw at ansgroveand on a rail um.
(05:34):
So ansgrove is a fantasticwoodland garden, has an
exceptional collection of umrhododendrons and other woody
plants as well.
So they are um.
I was lucky to work with umgarden consultant neil porteous
as well.
So again, another hugeinfluence.
And through him I met shamus um.
I'd met michael white, thecurator at mount congreve when I
(05:55):
was working at ducat's grove.
So I've been very lucky alongthe way to meet some people
who've really sparked anenthusiasm and just this will
for learning to kind of push youon the whole time.
You always feel like somebody'sjust behind you pushing you on
the whole time, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So since then I landed at uh salt bridge here
and I've been here I think it'sjust about three and a half,
three and a half years it is nowyeah yeah, a long, a long
journey in in some respects, andthat there's a lot, a lot of
places there, a lot of gardens,a lot of very good gardens, and
uh, I'd actually you did tell me, but I'd forgotten about
ducat's grove and uh, ducat'sgrove it's a, it's a really nice
(06:34):
garden in carroll.
It's one that has, over theyears, it it got a lot of care
for a period, then didn't seemto get much for a while and now
is getting a good bit ofattention again.
So I suspect that the, thewalled garden and the borders
there, you probably did a lot ofearly work on that, I would
think, because when, when was itroughly?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
you were there um, so I think the council acquired it
around 2000 early 2000s anyway,and as you say they put a lot
of money into it.
They had um, you know, I thinkit's Finola Reid, isn't it?
The garden consultant.
She was in an awful lot anddoing a lot of work there and
they put an awful lot of moneyinto it.
And then the recession came in2008.
(07:14):
So obviously external well, alot of non-essential spending
had to reduce there and soDuckers Grove was on that, so
they ripped out.
It's a shame, actually was onthat, so they ripped out.
It's a shame.
I said they pulled out a lot ofthe good plant and that she did,
and just put in um likeviburnum davidia.
They put a load of camelliasand rhododendrons in um alkaline
soil so they weren't lookingtoo well and they never actually
had anybody working there for along time.
(07:36):
So when I came in, it was a bitof a like the bones of it were
there, you know, and I didn't doanything structurally to the
entire place.
It was just I took out all theplants that were there improve
the soil, things like that andum kind of replanted.
And Robert again, was a hugehelp to me there, like I maybe
wasn't entirely ready to take ona project like that, but he's
(07:57):
he's such a personable man thatyou know.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
He was always at the end of the phone and willing to
give a hand and physically gaveus a hand planting and things
like that as well yeah, Iremember that because, like I
live not that far from there andI actually remember years ago I
would have seen the changes inducats grove over the years.
I remember I was doing oneparticular job outside the walls
(08:21):
of ducats grove for a man hewas.
He used to be the head porterin in um, what's the big hotel
in london, the the biggest fancyhotel, is it?
Yeah, one of those?
Yeah, so he was the head porterthere and he had several
encounters with all these famouspeople, but he was a brilliant.
He was real small I forget name,but he was a real small little
(08:44):
man and he had robins trained atthat time to come into his
kitchen.
So he used to open the door inthe morning.
I'd be outside doing some workfor him and then these robins
would just fly into his kitchen,sit on the kitchen table for a
few minutes and go out again.
But anyway, long story, but Iused to be always in and out of
Duckers Grove and I rememberlooking at it saying, oh, it's
(09:04):
looking great now there's workbeing done.
And then there was a whilewhere it wasn't and it's good to
see it now in good care again.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, to be fair to the council, since I left they
have taken on.
You know, they've replaced me.
I think that was.
The problem initially was thatthere was somebody working there
and then, when the recessioncame, I'm not sure what happened
exactly, but um, whoever was incharge left and they just never
replaced them fully.
You know it was all donethrough ce schemes and things
(09:32):
like that, so they need a bit ofsupervision and instruction as
well.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, and then balafin, yeah, that's fantastic
place, obviously, um vastgardens and gardens that need to
feed into a, you know, afive-star hotel as well.
So it's an interesting place.
You would have got lots ofexperience there, as you said as
well.
So, yeah, again, I'd forgotten.
You did tell me that when wespoke, but I'd kind of forgotten
(09:56):
about that.
So the journey continues anywayin Salter Bridge, and it's a
private garden as such, butyou're there now for the last
couple of years.
Tell us a little bit aboutSalterbridge, you know.
Tell us you know what.
What's happening there, whathas happened there over the last
couple of years, the plansmaybe for the future, and then,
(10:16):
obviously, we get talking aboutwhat was your fantastic talk at
Buds and Blossoms on creatingthe cutting garden yeah, no,
bother.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So, um, as I said, I I started here I think it was
october 2021 steven and helene,the owners, they they bought the
estate in august that year.
So I think one of the firstthings they did when they got
here was decided they wanted a,an upgrade to the garden.
Um, the previous owners, thewingfields, I think they'd been
here I don't think it was 100years, it was maybe around
(10:45):
around 60, 70, 80 sort of yearsand they built in an awful lot
of quite a lot of unusual treesand shrubs and that.
But there was just acres oflawn underneath it that they cut
.
So we, after I was here for acouple of months, I kind of had
a walk around with Stephen andthe owners and said, look, I
think it's got the perfect bonesfor a great woodland garden
(11:06):
here.
So we pushed down that avenue.
So that's been kind of the mainI wouldn't say the main focus,
but it's one part of the biggerproject.
So that's, since I've been here, I've planted 16, I think it's
about 1,600 trees and shrubs.
A lot of them about 400 ofthose are rhododendrons, I think
(11:26):
.
So I've got a great grove forrhododendrons and then the plan
up with that area of the gardenis two big areas of the woodland
garden.
So the plan over time is we'recurrently we've cut paths into
into what was the lawns andwe're letting them grow as
meadows over time.
We want to kind of reduce thevigor of the grass.
So this year we're going tolook at maybe planting some
(11:47):
yellow rattle and things likethat and then in a few spots I
actually have some some of thewoodland herbaceous perennials,
like you know.
So we have the the existing bigtree canopy I've under planted
with an awful lot of smallertrees and shrubs, uh, things
like that.
And you know we're mulching thewhole time that we're here.
So the area underneath isgetting larger and larger.
(12:08):
So the plan is to increase theherbaceous perennials under the
trees and shrubs like that aswell and increase.
We get some bulbs and thingslike that in there.
So that's kind of, I wouldn'tsay, the main focus, but it's
one of the big areas that Ispend a lot of time thinking
about.
Um, on top of that as well, we,I think at the front of the
(12:29):
house we've developed two largeherbaceous borders, um, both
we've kind of pulled them up.
They were awkward shaped insizes so we kind of expanded
them so that we could get more,and emptied them out and I
planted like at the momentthey're looking fantastic out
there a lot of uh, dahlias andgeraniums and penstemons and
sanguis orbas and things likethat.
(12:49):
So they're they're starting tosing and dance at this time of
year.
I've also done another twolarge um long herbaceous borders
.
I think they're both two and ahalf meters wide, they're
thereabouts, and again it's it'sgot different feels to them
along the way, um.
And then, as you said, we havethe, the cutting garden as well,
which was done last year aswell as last year I did the um.
(13:13):
It's not quite a bowling green,but certainly a fine lawn, 300
square meters up there as well.
So, and then another one forthe future is we have a two acre
walled garden that I need toput some thought into over the
next point.
You know, so it's, we're notidle for long around here yeah,
it sounds.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Sounds like it lots of projects.
It does this feel like kind ofthe first garden that you're
getting to really put your owninfluence on?
Would would that be fair to say?
Yeah, it would be it would be.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I mean, when I was at Dockerts Grove, um, I was
helpful for Robert's help.
As I say, I was probably therea bit premature in my career.
When I was at ansgrove,obviously, neil porteous was the
the garden consultant there andI wouldn't know a great deal
about woodland gardening either.
Um, so it was great to great,to learn an awful lot off of him
as well.
But this is the first one whereit's kind of um, how would you
(14:03):
say, you know, I'm getting a lotof creative freedom.
I certainly wouldn't say I cando what I want, not by a long
stretch, but I can go to theowners and discuss I'd like to
maybe do a few things here, andthe majority of the time it's
welcomed and it always improvesthe garden.
So they're enthusiastic aboutthe whole process as well.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, it's nice to have you know somewhere that you
can influence, yeah, withoutwithout having final say.
As you say, the, the ownershave that, but it is nice to
have your own influence and Isuppose, for you to be the main
advisor on the project asopposed to following someone
else's lead.
So that's, that's.
That's a nice, uh, that's anice step up yeah, yeah, yeah it
is.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I find it really rewarding to like everything
that we've done here.
You know, I was looking therethe other day at some photos I
took when I first started herein November.
It always helps when the placelooks dank and drab at the start
anyway, but you know, and thenyou skip back to how things are
looking now and like theturnaround is amazing.
(15:09):
I find those kind of thingsreally rewarding when you can
see.
I always, I always like to saythat.
You know, I've never left aplace worse than when.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I found I've always done improvements along the way.
You know, yeah and that's, yeah, that's, that's, that's good
and yeah, as you say, a nicelook back on those you mentioned
that you know, at that, at the,at some point in time, woodland
gardening wouldn't have beenyour, you know, wasn't your your
forte or your strongest point,but it sounds like now you have.
I presume you know, followingon from from man's grove, that
you've got developed thatelement of it and you're talking
(15:33):
, you've talked, about creatinga biggish wood woodland area
here.
What kind of planting are welooking at?
You did, you did say you have1600 trees and shrubs yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So, um, as the majority of the ones that were
here, the previous owners theyplanted, they inherited a lot of
legacy oak, so we have somefantastic large oak trees here
with loads of the ferns, thepolypodums, growing up along the
branches, so I'll tell you howold they are.
The previous owners theyplanted quite a lot of acers, a
lovely Enchianthus, a Sculusindica, the Indian chestnut,
(16:07):
which is looking great at themoment as well.
So since I started again, likeI mentioned, I've planted, I
think, probably around 400rhododendrons.
When I'm doing that, I try tokind of keep them in groups that
I think look well.
You know you have to.
Although it's a large area, um,I still think you have to have a
(16:27):
design element to it.
So you've got repetition downcertain areas.
I break things off into areasthat are separate from each
other.
You know things like that.
Um, so, as we have,philadelphia's is flowering like
mad at the moment down here.
I actually cut out a few, a fewbig ones down there, lots of
Budleias.
I've started a good collectionof Hollies as well.
(16:48):
There's a great range ofHollies that you can get.
I know Ravensburg, up in Offaly, they produce an awful lot of
them.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Okay, go back to the Philadelphia Stair.
I actually only mentioned it onthe podcast last week.
It's in flower at the moment,is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The smell is incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I love them.
I think that they're greatplants.
Them and the Doitsia isfantastic plants that are
flowering at the moment as well.
Colquitsia as well is anotherone which is flowering.
All these, these sort of shrubs, you know, they don't take up a
huge amount of space.
I mean, we're blessed withhaving, I think, about 12 acres
of woodland garden that we canplay around with here, but in a
(17:27):
small garden, you know, I'veseen these planted an awful lot
in kind of small corners of thegarden.
They will, they'll take quite alot of shade and they kind of
contain themselves and they'lljust send up suckers every now
and again.
So you just keep a renewalprogram.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, keep them flowering yeah, no, there's some
brilliant ones.
I mentioned some of them lastweek and it was interesting
actually to see the commentssome of them.
Some of them are definitelyseen as old-fashioned now, but
there's some great floweringshrubs.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh yeah, absolutely like a lot of the ones that are
considered old-fashioned umfatsias.
When I was in college, fatsiafatsia japonica was a car park
plant.
You buy them for I've neverseen them in a garden center for
between seven and nine quid.
I know because everybody's gonemad for the Schefflers or the
Heptiplurums.
Now they're in the same family,aureliaeaceae, so everybody's
(18:15):
gone mad on them.
You can't get them for lessthan 20 quid.
Now it's.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, it's funny how it swings, swings yeah, like,
and Fatsy is a brilliant one inum in containers as well.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I've seen some people doing really brilliant things
with containers and Fatsy isrecently I just planted five um
Helene the owner, and we got anextension built and they've put
a patio around there and sheasked for five fatseas and
containers around there andagain like they're, they're
great.
They're evergreen, they flower,they're hardy out, they can
take sun, shade, anything youknow.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
They're bulletproof almost yeah, and you can put.
You can put your, your splashof color with your bedding or
your whatever your perennialsunderneath it, because they you
know they have that kind ofcanopy but they don't block out.
So they're, yeah, they'rebrilliant for containers,
brilliant absolutely brilliant.
Yeah, yeah, 100 yeah, so, yes,that's, that's the kind of the,
the woodland garden.
Um, you know, I know we haven'tgone into it in any great
(19:09):
detail, but the, as I said, thetheme of your, your talk at buds
and blossoms, was the creationof this, uh, cutting garden, and
I know there was.
Maybe just give us sort of anoverview of the story and we
might talk about some of theplanting that you've used.
It was, it was literally fromyou were starting from scratch
here with a deadline, I guess ofof a wedding coming up, so it
(19:33):
was interesting, yeah um yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So as I say, like um, um anyone who was at the talk,
it was essentially a greenfieldsite, wasn't it?
It was just a lawn, there was acouple of apple trees and a
couple of buddleia in there.
So I remember being in there onmy interview and walking around
with Stephen and Helene andstraight away we're kind of
(19:57):
close to the N72 here.
We're between Lismore andCap-A-Quinn, so it's a busy road
running between us, but thenthe house is kind of in front.
It's blocking the way down tothe road when you're in the
cutting guard, and then we havea stable behind us and there's a
wall adjoining the two.
(20:18):
So straight away, feel thenoise, reduce the um, the wind
drops down.
You know, it's a special littlearea in there.
So I'd always had in my mind tokind of do something, something
in that area, and beforehand itwas just a bit of a an awkward
thoroughfare.
There was a door in the wall,um, and that was about it, you
know.
So, um, yeah, I spoke to theowners after I'd been here a
(20:41):
year or two and I'd always saidto them that that would make a
great area for, you know, eithera potager it's close enough to
the house for them if theywanted to do some vegetables or
fruit or anything like that.
Or the one I was always pushingwas the cutting garden.
You know it's something thatalways I wouldn't say always,
but I I certainly um had hadintentions of doing something
(21:04):
along those lines and I loveherbaceous plant and you know
it's.
I find it's this real rewardand you get great um value.
So, yeah, so once, once theyagreed to that, um, we kind of
started.
Uh, I did quite a lot of designs.
I went through them in the.
We kind of started.
I did quite a lot of designs, Iwent through them in the talk
as well and I kind of explain alot.
(21:29):
When you're doing designs inbig areas like this, if you
answer the basic infrastructurequestions, then it does some of
the design work for you.
You know, instead of justhaving this big blank page, if
you can get a structure or thebones, bones of a design onto a
page and it takes some of thepressure off and opens up other
avenues as you go.
So, um, yeah, when was it now?
It was the year before last.
We actually started the work onit.
(21:50):
You know, I went down andpegged everything out and things
like that.
Um sprayed off the grass, dugit off, and then I suppose it
was just it's.
I probably could have got itall done realistically, and I
would have liked to got it alldone in the space of about three
, four months.
But, um, there was issues withcontractors um, letting me down
or saying that they were goingto do something and then never
(22:13):
appearing or not doing the workor it wasn't quite right, or
things like that.
So, um, eventually I had tochange the contractors and, as
you said, there was a deadline.
There was one of the sons wasgetting married on the estate
here and I wanted this to be thefocal point of the wedding.
So I remember Neil Porteoussaying to me all you need to
(22:36):
meet a deadline is a plan andnot enough time.
That's one that always stickswith me.
Saying to me all you need tomeet a deadline is a plan and
not enough time.
You know that's.
That's one that always stickswith me.
So I'm a nightmare for writingdown lists the whole time and
trying to make everything workand numbering and to get it all
in order and that like.
So it was going through thatand then eventually, you know,
we did get the the hardlandscaping side of things
(22:59):
organized.
And then the planting.
Um, yeah, the planting wasgreat, like I really enjoyed
doing a huge area like that.
Um, dahlias we we planted.
I think we had 28 varieties ofdahlia.
Um, there was loads of salvias.
I put in as well thatNachtflinder.
(23:19):
What's the other one?
Hotlips is another one as well.
So, yeah, it was good.
I had a chat with the ownersabout the color scheme.
So, again, that's anotherdecision taken out of my hand.
I find the more decisions youcan get somebody else to make,
the easier your life becomes.
(23:39):
You know so, um, like I said inthe talk as well, one thing
that I I consciously made aneffort with was reduce the
number of varieties that I grewin there.
Um, I had a lot of stuff I'vedesigned before.
It just looks like somebody gota bag of smarties and threw
them on the table.
You know, there's no, no rhyme,the reason to it.
So it's sometimes better to,you know, instead of going
(24:01):
through the catalog and oh, Ilike that, I like that, I like
that, go through and mark allthe ones that you like and then
mark a couple that you reallyreally, really like and like.
I think I was planting 65, 70of that verbena.
Uh, bampton, you know sostraight away.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
That's, that's a character plant of that area
yeah, and that that was onemajor feature of your talk was
for being a bampton in in fullflower and the, the concept of
it, drawing up along thepathways, that and and it worked
really brilliantly.
And you mentioned somethingthere at the start just in
relation to how the structuresort of can do the design for
(24:41):
you if you allow for what youneed to put in there.
And I guess in in this scenario, what you're talking about was
there was the one opening andyou wanted to create kind of
walkways through and then youknow they were the original, I
suppose, forming of what werethe beds and you had to offset
them because they weren't in in,they weren't symmetrical as
(25:01):
such.
Yeah, um, but that's a good tipfor for people at home as well,
if they're looking to createsomething like a cutting garden.
Is, you know, is there an areathat that you're trying to lead
somebody through?
Uh, get your pats in there andand have that as the step one of
creating, or where you createyour cutting garden?
I guess is it yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I mean again, um, we're very blessed here to have
space and um things like that.
But in a smaller garden, youknow, you could just section off
an area and go, right, that'swhere I'm going to produce, cut,
cut flowers, you know, and um,put the infrastructure in, get
all the hard work done first,not the hard work, but you know
the stuff which theinfrastructure in.
Get all the hard work donefirst, not the hard work, but
you know the stuff which woulddisturb, because there's no
point putting down beds and thenhaving to dig them up to put
(25:45):
back down paths and then putyour beds back down over them.
You know, so it's, if you can,if you can get a good plan that
you're happy with and stick tothat, then you know you, you
know the direction you're goingin, so it just makes your life a
bit easier.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah for sure um you you mentioned for being
abandoned.
There was also one or two othersort of hero plants that you
mentioned during your talk.
Is can you just give us a lift?
I know you said was there 20something varieties of dahlias.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So 28, 28 varieties.
Yeah, so we've put in a fewmore of this year as well, just
as an experiment.
You know it's.
It's a great thing aboutherbaceous plantains you can
play around with it the wholetime.
Um, so, yeah, verbena bampton,we had quite a lot of geraniums
in there as well.
Um, geranium silo stemming, Ithink, has been it's, it's
already in flower now.
(26:34):
It's looking fantastic at thistime year.
So it's a species.
It's very strong again.
Like the banton, it kind offalls out onto the path.
That's, that's the style I love, you know, this kind of full
feel to the beds.
Um, what else was there as wellnow?
Oh, the pheopsis, the?
Um, the small little pinhead,uh, pink flower that actually
looks exactly like, um, what wecall sticky willies and scotland
(26:57):
cleavers, I think, over here.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like that in flower, in leaf.
Sorry, but they've got theselovely little pom-pom-shaped,
tiny little about the size of agolf ball and it's absolutely
covered in them.
The pollinators absolutelyadore it as well.
Like I mentioned, the dahlia is, I think, the best one.
It's actually in flower now.
(27:21):
I cut one yesterday.
It's one called salmon runnerand, um, like I said, as a
cutting garden you have to thinkabout how these plants perform
as as cut flowers like, and thestem on this one is.
It's over a foot long and it isit's like a bit of iron in your
hand, you know you can swingyour hand around and this thing
doesn't bend at all.
It's as fantastic as a cutflower.
Uh, as we had quite a lot ofroses, we planted in steve and
(27:43):
he, he likes roses, so I went upto robert and got quite a lot.
I think gartry check jekyll isprobably one of the best ones.
It's a brilliant rose, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely love it.
Or actually I'm growing onebecause it's it's a big area.
We I'm actually growing onecalled blush noisette, which is
technically a climber, but I'mgrowing it as a shrub just in
the back of a border.
So you know it's it's fairlyvigorous.
(28:04):
But if it leans down on theshoulder of another plant I'm
not too bothered, like it's kindof up the back and out of the
way, you know I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Now, color wise, what ?
What color is it?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
kind of very, very pale pink.
It's kind of semi-double floweron it.
Um yeah, it's just a real niceone, like it's worth worth
looking up yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Uh, just going off track here, you mentioned uh
during your talk that at onepoint in time there was a
contractor to put in paths andyou were going away on a, on a
sort of a plant finding tripwith with some of your
horticultural buddies and, uh,the plan was, when you came back
, all these paths were to bedone, and they weren't, but just
(28:42):
to hone in on the kind of plantfinding trip.
Or you know, I know you've donea few of these.
So where did you go?
What was the?
What did you find?
What was yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So yeah, the one last year was Southwest China, a
region called Yunnan.
So anybody who knows any plantsYonanensis, you have the
rhododendron Yonanensis.
There's a lot of stuff namedYonanensis.
What's the other one?
The other name has gone out ofmy head, but you know,
yonanensis obviously refers toYunnan, so it's in the southwest
(29:15):
of China.
We were in an area that borderedTibet.
We went over for just underthree weeks and it was great.
This is the third trip that I'dbeen on similar to this before
that.
So we went to the very easternedge of the Himalayas.
That time, and I think threeyears ago, I went to the very
(29:36):
western end of the Himalayas innorthwest India, where it
borders Afghanistan, a placecalled Ladakh, but Yunnan.
It was fantastic because when wewere in Ladakh it was very high
altitude desert plants we werelooking at, so there wasn't a
great deal.
I think there was a rose there,a rose of Webiana that we saw
an awful lot of, and I knowSeamus up in Kilmakurra grows
that but other than that wedidn't see anything really
(29:57):
transferable.
Whereas as soon as we landedinto lijiang is the, the city we
went into like straight away assoon as we drove out of there.
You're seeing viburnums, you'reseeing um rhododendrons galore,
pinuses, um yeah, loads andloads of stuff.
So it's just.
I find that just it'sawe-inspiring to go out into
nature and see these plants thatyou're used to seeing in
(30:19):
gardens and in their naturalhabitat, and how they behave and
interact with each other, Ithink, is where I get a real
buzz out of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, and is this you know when you go to these
places, is it to see what couldtranslate back here, or is it
just you know, from a heart,cultural interest, that you like
to see these in their naturalhabitats, or what's the kind of
the drive here?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, like to see these in their, in their natural
habitats or what's the kind ofthe drive here?
Yeah, a bit of both, liketravel as well, as this is a
great love of mine um, so itkind of mixes, mixes them
together, like you know.
But, um, certainly, in the deckand uh, parts of the trip to
china, you know, we actuallywent over what's called the
doker la, which was over 4 000meters, and we were actually
stepped into tibet, um, so atthose kind of altitudes you're
not really seeing a great deal.
(31:06):
That's going to be you're ableto grow here because it's really
really sharply drained.
Um, but on the way up there,you know, we went through
different uh vegetative umlayers all the way up, you know.
So we started the kind ofsubtropical up to the temperate
and then up to the alpine andthen to the very high alpine
stuff.
So I mean, you know we we sawan awful lot of things.
(31:28):
I actually, since I got back, Iordered a few of the
rhododendrons that we saw.
There are some sanguiniums.
I'm keeping an eye out for a fewmore um so yeah you and going
back to things that you see, onething that I saw there that I
fell in love with an awful lotof was um, the phylicterum
deleviae growing next to ahypericum forestii, and when
(31:49):
they're in flower together, Ithought that was one of the
nicest plant combinations you'llever see.
So one thing I've actuallyordered some.
I planted a load of hypericumthere last year and I just got
hold of some phylicterum earlierthis year, so I'm just going to
intermingle them and that'sexactly how it was in your nan,
you know.
So you can transfer thesethings into it and I have a few
pictures of looking up over tothe docker that and you have.
(32:11):
And there was rhododendron umwardii.
Uh, rhododendron primula,florum sang sanguinium, and then
burgini is in there and I thinkthere was a mechanopsis as well
.
You know this complete, just itwas.
It was great, I absolutelyloved it.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But you can almost pick and choose any combination
within that and it would workyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nice to
you know, like to take aphotograph like that to then
transfer it okay, it's notexactly the same, but to try and
transfer it across here andreplicate it and using something
that you've seen, I suppose, inin the wild out there.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
So it's, yeah, it's it's yeah, yeah, and even on a
more basic level as well, it'snot even just the combinations,
but I mean, beth chatto was agreat uh proponent of you know
right plant in the right place.
So if you can go to where aplant originates from and see
what it's growing, how it'sgrowing, then you have a better
understanding of it straightaway, what kind of conditions it
needs.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, what you'll need to do then to make it work
Exactly.
Yeah, for sure, any futuretrips planned?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Not at the moment.
No, we have an eight-month-oldat home, so all the current
travel plans are further thanWaterford City or need to be
bypassed.
No, nothing, nothing.
I have a few, few bubbling awayin the background.
I'd like to kind of push on,maybe in a year or so as time,
but nothing, nothing too toopressing at the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Anyway yeah, yeah, well, the eight-year-olds will
keep you, will keep you close tobase for a while and you know
for sure, or eight month old,should I say.
Um, so, in terms of salterbridge going over the next
couple of years.
So you've mentioned, you know,some of the things that you're
working on.
What is there?
Is there kind of plans in placeover the next kind of 12 months
, 18 months that are ongoing?
I know the the cutting gardenwas sort of the last big, big
(34:03):
project, but what's on the cardsover the next little while?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
uh, well, we're putting in a lake, oh wow.
So now I'm entirely steppingback from the, the the
contractor side of things andthen the the contractor here is
going to do all all the actualphysical digging work and stuff.
But I mean I'm going to have ahuge lake that I'll need
planting up relatively soon.
(34:27):
So it's going to be it's good,that's going to be really great
fun.
I think, like you know, this isone thing that the estate is
missing is water, running water,going through.
So that's that's going to begreat fun.
Doing that um other than that um, what was the other thing?
Oh yeah, up in, up in thewalled garden.
I think I'm going to startfocusing a little bit more on as
well your your talk was verygood as well, john about um
(34:50):
growing fruit and veg.
I always, because I'm from anornamental background, I always
um put fruit and veg at the verybottom of my priorities, if I'm
perfectly honest with you.
So it's kind of giving me a bitof a kick to kind of knock it
higher up on the list ofpriorities.
So I'm dedicating a day or so aweek to kind of spending a bit
of time.
We do have quite a big vegpatch up above in the wall of
(35:11):
garden.
So it's something I'm lookingto maybe expand and even start
an orchard up there, as well ason on the cards and the fruit
cage.
I think we're going to upgrade,hopefully over the autumn, into
the winter as well, so the nextyear now we can get get going
with the proper set up there.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, it's funny, the ornamental garden, from my
point of view, probably gets puton the back burner because,
again, limited time and I justdo what, what works for me,
which is at the moment justgrowing fruit and vegetables,
yeah, and obviously have a hugeinterest in the ornamental side,
(35:48):
but not to the same detail interms of plants.
You know the names of plants.
I kind of don't focus too muchon it's how it looks, um, but
again, over time I'd like tohave more time to focus on that
part of it.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But you know, again, small children like yourself,
you just focus on what you canat this point in time, but yeah,
yeah, I'm focusing on that atthe moment because, because I'm
paid to be here, our own gardenat home is taking a severe
backseat.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's a very bottom of every priority at the moment
yeah, well, that was a question,but I think we'll skip on past
that.
Then if it's uh, no, we'll getinto it anyway.
So just your own garden, thenwhat?
Like?
Obviously time wise smallchildren, their job is gardening
.
It's probably hard enough toreach on your own garden, or
what?
What do you do at home?
(36:33):
What have you?
You're probably collectingplants, I guess.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Anyway, I'd probably the um plants I collect or or
get or propagate or stuff.
I actually put them all backinto the garden.
I usually do that sort of stuffto give away as gifts.
Um, I know mike white at mountcongreve is the one who
installed that kind of thoughtprocess into me.
If you can give somebody a plan, you have a connection straight
away.
There's two gardens.
(36:56):
We've made a connection and youknow two people as well through
that one plant, um, and also,it's the best way to keep a plan
is if you give it away.
If your one dies, then you youcan always go back and get
cuttings or divisions off ofthat one.
Um, yeah, we're going back toour own garden.
Um, when we first started,there was just my myself and my
(37:16):
wife and dog.
So we, I put in quite a Iwouldn't say huge, but a big
enough herbaceous, and I I dohave a few bits and pieces that
I put into it, um, so it waskind of broken into two sides
and then we have a big lawn inthere as well.
And, yeah, I suppose it's very,a wee bit tough because, like,
(37:38):
we nevermind our child, but whenI got it all planted up and we
had a great maybe three, fourmonths out of it, but we're
absolutely plagued with deeraround here, and so we fenced
off the main garden up herearound the main house, which is
grand, but now they're comingdown to ours for their dinner,
like you know.
So right, kind of enthusiasm forit kind of wanes a little bit
(38:02):
when as you said you're up hereworking all day, you go home,
you break your back for anotherfew hours and then a deer hops
over the fence and just startsmunching on your annabelle's
like you know it, kind of uhyeah, just to drive on with.
It has gone a little bit.
So it's, I know I I try.
I got a saturday there a whileago and I did kind of start
getting back into it a wee bit.
(38:22):
So I think that we're going tolook at maybe putting some of
the chestnut paling fence aroundit or something to try and keep
the deer out a wee bit and keepBonnie, our daughter, in as
well.
So it's a double, double effect.
So, yeah, it's just, at themoment it is a bit hard, if I'm
honest, like and when I say hardI mean impossible to get out
there and do stuff.
You know, because by the timeyou sit down it's it's almost
(38:44):
eight o'clock.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
And the last thing you want to do is get back your
work gear and go back outside.
And yeah, no, for sure it's.
It's when you're when you'resmall children.
As I say, that's, that's thecase here.
The garden definitely gets puton the back burner and I just do
the essentials and I supposeit's no different than than a
lot of people you know at thisstage, I suppose, and hopefully
over time, over time, you'll getthe time to to focus on your
own you mentioned to get allright we've been at like, yeah,
(39:13):
that's a good start that's agood start.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
That's how you get any enthusiasm for a garden yeah
it's good, isn't?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
it.
Yeah, um, you mentioned acouple things there that are
interesting.
You, you mentioned um at thevery, very start.
You mentioned that your, yourgranddad, was, you know, quite a
good gardener.
You mentioned fruit.
Um, it's, it's strange because,well, it's not strange, it's,
it's, it's, it's very obviouswhen, when you, when you take it
in the context of just the lastcouple of minutes of our
(39:39):
conversation, loads of peoplethat I've had on the podcast
over the last few years have gottheir garden inspiration from
their grandparents, and I guessI'd never thought about it this
way, but I guess the lastconversation we just had, for as
a parent, you just don't havethe time for necessarily in the
early stages, and it's it's notuntil later on that that
(40:01):
somebody gets the time, but itis a brilliant connection.
Is that connection tograndparents through gardening?
It it's uh, it seems to be athread that is with a lot of
horticultural people that comeon the podcasts.
So that that was interesting.
And and also what you mentionedabout gifting plants,
especially plants that youpropagated yourself, and again,
(40:21):
that thread has always been allthe time through the podcast,
where plants are linked back tograndparents gardens or parents
gardens and, as you said, it's abrilliant gift because it keeps
that connection both betweenthe gardens and the people.
That will last you know afteryou know after somebody has
passed on or whatever.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
So yeah, yeah, well, going back to the grandparents
and parents, I think that if mydad told me to weed, it was a
chore, whereas if my granddaddid it it was a bit of crack,
you know yeah, yeah, it'samazing.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
A bit of context, uh, a bit a bit of space between it
is is good yeah you mentionedyour dad then as well, you were
saying, um, he would be twoweeks on, two weeks off.
Was he on the oil rigs?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
just yeah, he was working on their own.
To be honest with you, the vegpatch was a wee bit of an
afterthought, I think, when they, when they bought the house,
they had a veg patch and he kindof grudgingly brought it
forward and kept it yeah, yeah.
It was stubbornness, more thananything kept it going.
But I do remember God.
Do you remember those oldorange rotovators?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Oh yeah, the big Howards.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, yeah, it was about seven or eight.
You were getting thrown aroundthis cage with one of them like
it was pretty fun at the time.
But you know, and he had a 1947massey ferguson tractor as well
, like so yeah around with thatsort of stuff.
Those, howards.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I've a real bad memory of those howards, the
very first one that I ever comeacross.
I was um in a garden and I wasasked to start it and it had one
of the winder starters on itand I I had never used one
before.
I would have seen things woundup to be started.
But this one, you know the waythey're supposed.
On the handle they're supposedto have a sleeve that that turns
(42:03):
.
Yeah, when it kicks back the,the sleeve turns in your hand
and not the actual handle.
But the sleeve was gone off itand I gave it a good wind and
then it kicked back and itwrenched all the skin off the
palm of my hand.
That was my very first memoryof those Howard Rotovators.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Well, I am a gardener , but the reason my brother
isn't is.
My dad rigged up some device toone of our lawnmowers, where
you started it with a uh, adrill, you put a socket on the
top of it, so that meant thatthere was a um a bolt spinning
around on the top of this thingin the garden.
My brother ripped his hand topieces when he was doing that
one day, like so, yeah, luckilyI dodged that one and carried on
(42:44):
gardening yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Um, your your current role.
Obviously it's uh exciting.
You have, as we said, you havethat bit of autonomy to sort of
put your own stamp on things toa certain extent or bring your
own ideas forward, you know, tobe approved or otherwise.
And yeah, it's nice to have,you know, that sort of autonomy
(43:11):
on me.
The, the gardens themselves.
They're not open gardens per se, but I know that you can kind
of open by appointment andvarious things.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
So maybe tell us a little bit about that yeah,
absolutely, um, certainly thisyear we've been I wouldn't say
busy with tours or anything likethat, but we've had more in
this year, um, than we havesince I started here.
So well, I would say, like yousaid, it's open for groups and
tours.
You know, I'd say a minimum uh,15 people to to get in.
Really, um, but, yeah, uh, byappointment.
(43:36):
My email address, I'm sure youcan put it in the link to show,
or not yet for sure, yeah, yeah,just get in touch and look we
can arrange something.
But I would like it depends onyour interest, to be honest,
like there's an awful lot hereto see, so you won't see it all
in one shot, you know.
So if you wanted to come in thespring, early spring, see the
magnolias, come in the latespring and see the rhododendrons
, and then you know the thecotton garden from kind of now
(43:59):
on, I think I was up there today.
It's looking really well at theminute and it's only going to
get better yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
And uh, I know you're doing, you're doing some talks.
You've done, obviously, budsand Blossoms.
You recently, or not too longago, did one for Robert down in
Altamount Any more on thehorizon that people should look
out for.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
I am doing one in Lismore Centre.
What is it now?
September, I think it is callthem.
They do an autumn programme oftalks, but that's going to be on
the trip to Yunnan, so I thinkthat's the only other one I have
lined up.
I think the Waterford GardenPlant Society were here at the
weekend.
They've asked me to do a talkfor them next year at some point
(44:42):
.
But yeah, if anybody does wantto talk, just let me know again.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, for sure, and for anyone that wasn't, at Buds
and Blossoms, it was a fantastic, fantastic talk.
To actually see the journeyfrom, uh, as you say, greenfield
site to full cutting garden andthen the mention of all the
really good cutting plants thatwere in there cut flower plants
that were in there was you knowit was.
(45:06):
It was really good to see thattransformation.
So, yeah, it was a brillianttalk, brilliant talk on the day
and, uh, yeah, today has beenreally, really interesting
episode and thank you very, verymuch for coming on.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Master, my garden podcast thanks for having me,
john, it's a pleasure so that'sbeen this week's episode.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
A huge thanks to colin from coming on.
Uh, as I said that the talk atbuds and blossoms was
fascinating.
I know it's a talk that he'sdelivered before I think maybe
for rhsi in the past, but keepan eye out because I'm sure it
will come up again.
It's, um, there's somebrilliant plant choices in it,
some that I wouldn't havenecessarily thought of, some
that I wouldn't have come acrossbefore as well, but all of them
(45:44):
suitable for for cut flowers.
So if you are thinking ofcreating a good flower garden
and definitely, definitely,that's worth checking out if you
do have gardening groups I knowthat a lot of gardening clubs
listen to the podcast.
Any of you guys want to visitsalter bridge, just contact
colin.
I'll put the the email in theshow notes.
Just send an email and let themknow the details and and I'm
(46:06):
sure it'll be a garden wellworth seeing.
And that's been this week'sepisode.
Thanks for listening and untilthe next time, happy gardening,
(46:38):
thank you.
how's it going, everybody, and welcome to
episode 282 of master, my gardenpodcast.
Now, this week's episode I'mlooking forward to, uh, and I'm
chatting with colin jones.
So colin was a speaker at budsand blossoms a couple of weeks
ago and gave a brilliantpresentation on creating a
cutting garden, or a cut flowergarden, from scratch and over
the course of a season, withsome time pressures in it, but
(00:34):
it was a brilliant.
It was a brilliant presentation, fabulous looking garden, what
ended up being a beautiful space, with some challenges along the
way, but it's a great story andit's going to be interesting to
hear how someone can create,you know, their own cutting
garden at home.
We spoke about it a little biton the podcast before, but maybe
we would kind of delve into itfrom start to finish and what
(00:57):
somebody might need to do andpossible plants and so on.
But that's not the only stringto the bow.
He's the head gardener inSalter Bridge Gardens, which is
a private garden, can open to,you know, open to groups and
tours.
He's a fantastichorticulturalist, has been on
many, I suppose, plant findingtrips around the world.
(01:18):
We'll hear about some of those.
So yeah, look, there's loads,loads to chat about.
As I say, a fantastic gardenerwho I've known for a little
while but only recently spoke tohim for the first time at, as I
say, buds and blossoms.
So golly, you're very, verywelcome to master my garden
podcast thanks very much, john.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Great to be here.
I've been listening for a longtime, so it's exciting to
finally be on with you yeah,yeah, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Uh.
There's loads of people thatyou know I've been trying to get
on and you've been on the radarfor a long time and, yeah, we
finally got to catch up, Isuppose, at Buds and Blossoms a
couple of weeks ago.
So, lovely, lovely to have youon at last Loads we can talk
about.
There's a wide array of topics,I guess before we get into
(01:59):
Salter Bridge and you know thecreating of a cutting garden,
just a little bit about yourhorticultural sort of journey so
far and you know what has takenyou from getting into gardening
horticulture to where you aretoday in head gardener in Salter
Bridge.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Okay, no, bother, I suppose it goes back a long time
.
I remember my grandfather whenI was five or six, you know he
used to grow it was mostly fruit, I seem to recall he grew and
then, um, uh, my father, he hada big fruit and veg patch um,
back where I was growing up inthe country as well.
Now, conveniently for him, heworked offshore, so he was only
(02:36):
there two weeks and then gonefor another two weeks.
So it was up to me to lookafter the rest of it, or a lot
of it, me and my brother andsister.
And then, um, yeah, uh, fromthere I developed a bit.
I wouldn't say I disliked it,but, um, it kind of fell out
with me for a long time.
Like you know, I went away andmoved into Aberdeen, the near
city to me, ended up workingsecurity, um things like that.
(03:02):
My very first job when I leftschool actually was a landscaper
, um, doing that for a summer.
And then season ended and Imoved out of home so I needed,
needed something to pay the rent.
So I kind of fell into securityand ended up doing that for a
few years, which I don't thinkthat did me any favors, but
after a while there I kind ofstarted thinking you know what
it is I want to do?
(03:22):
So?
A local agricultural show.
Our horticultural college had astand there, so my auntie
happened to be there and she gota flyer, gave it to me.
I applied.
I actually forgot to put astamp on the envelope when I
sent it off, so I'm very luckythat they paid the postage and
accepted me onto the courseanyway.
So I'm up in the very northeastof Scotland and near Aberdeen, a
(03:46):
wee town called Elgin, and thiswas about five and a half hours
southwest, near anybody who'sgotten the boat off to Scotland
and probably sailed to Stranraer, so it was about an hour north
of there.
So I was there for I did whatwas called the diploma back then
.
So it was a fairly basic courseand then a gap year work in
which I did way up in the verynorth of Scotland, the place
(04:07):
called the Castle of May, andthen they got us back for
another year and I stayed on foranother year to get my higher
national diploma it was calledso.
Then from there I bouncedaround a bit in Scotland, worked
at a few, a few private estatesand things like that, and then
I got offered a job, veryluckily at uh belly finn.
I know a lot of people probablyknow in county leash they're a
(04:28):
very exclusive hotel with afantastic garden there and that
was great.
That was one of the things thatreally you know was a defining
moment, like I got to come overand anybody who's been there
will know that it's a fantasticgarden but also getting to work
under a very well-known gardendesigner, jim Reynolds, who was
the MD at the time and had agreat influence in the garden.
(04:48):
So I worked there for a fewyears and then decided that I
kind of needed to get a bit moreexperience, so again bounced
around a little bit here andthere and then I ended up at
Ducketts Grove in County Carlow.
I was there for I think twoyears, something like that, yeah
, so I was a project manager umdeveloping the, the upper walled
garden, which is where I firstmet robert
(05:10):
miller of alamont, and again,that was another, another great
moment getting to know robertand seeing his passion and
getting to.
He's a very good networker,robert, as well.
So getting to know a load ofpeople.
As you know, robert knowseverybody like, so it's great to
get to know people through that.
And um, robert actually helpedme as well when I applied for a
job with um the opw at ansgroveand on a rail um.
(05:34):
So ansgrove is a fantasticwoodland garden, has an
exceptional collection of umrhododendrons and other woody
plants as well.
So they are um.
I was lucky to work with umgarden consultant neil porteous
as well.
So again, another hugeinfluence.
And through him I met shamus um.
I'd met michael white, thecurator at mount congreve when I
(05:55):
was working at ducat's grove.
So I've been very lucky alongthe way to meet some people
who've really sparked anenthusiasm and just this will
for learning to kind of push youon the whole time.
You always feel like somebody'sjust behind you pushing you on
the whole time, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So since then I landed at uh salt bridge here
and I've been here I think it'sjust about three and a half,
three and a half years it is nowyeah yeah, a long, a long
journey in in some respects, andthat there's a lot, a lot of
places there, a lot of gardens,a lot of very good gardens, and
uh, I'd actually you did tell me, but I'd forgotten about
ducat's grove and uh, ducat'sgrove it's a, it's a really nice
(06:34):
garden in carroll.
It's one that has, over theyears, it it got a lot of care
for a period, then didn't seemto get much for a while and now
is getting a good bit ofattention again.
So I suspect that the, thewalled garden and the borders
there, you probably did a lot ofearly work on that, I would
think, because when, when was itroughly?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
you were there um, so I think the council acquired it
around 2000 early 2000s anyway,and as you say they put a lot
of money into it.
They had um, you know, I thinkit's Finola Reid, isn't it?
The garden consultant.
She was in an awful lot anddoing a lot of work there and
they put an awful lot of moneyinto it.
And then the recession came in2008.
(07:14):
So obviously external well, alot of non-essential spending
had to reduce there and soDuckers Grove was on that, so
they ripped out.
It's a shame, actually was onthat, so they ripped out.
It's a shame.
I said they pulled out a lot ofthe good plant and that she did,
and just put in um likeviburnum davidia.
They put a load of camelliasand rhododendrons in um alkaline
soil so they weren't lookingtoo well and they never actually
had anybody working there for along time.
(07:36):
So when I came in, it was a bitof a like the bones of it were
there, you know, and I didn't doanything structurally to the
entire place.
It was just I took out all theplants that were there improve
the soil, things like that andum kind of replanted.
And Robert again, was a hugehelp to me there, like I maybe
wasn't entirely ready to take ona project like that, but he's
(07:57):
he's such a personable man thatyou know.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
He was always at the end of the phone and willing to
give a hand and physically gaveus a hand planting and things
like that as well yeah, Iremember that because, like I
live not that far from there andI actually remember years ago I
would have seen the changes inducats grove over the years.
I remember I was doing oneparticular job outside the walls
(08:21):
of ducats grove for a man hewas.
He used to be the head porterin in um, what's the big hotel
in london, the the biggest fancyhotel, is it?
Yeah, one of those?
Yeah, so he was the head porterthere and he had several
encounters with all these famouspeople, but he was a brilliant.
He was real small I forget name,but he was a real small little
(08:44):
man and he had robins trained atthat time to come into his
kitchen.
So he used to open the door inthe morning.
I'd be outside doing some workfor him and then these robins
would just fly into his kitchen,sit on the kitchen table for a
few minutes and go out again.
But anyway, long story, but Iused to be always in and out of
Duckers Grove and I rememberlooking at it saying, oh, it's
(09:04):
looking great now there's workbeing done.
And then there was a whilewhere it wasn't and it's good to
see it now in good care again.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, to be fair to the council, since I left they
have taken on.
You know, they've replaced me.
I think that was.
The problem initially was thatthere was somebody working there
and then, when the recessioncame, I'm not sure what happened
exactly, but um, whoever was incharge left and they just never
replaced them fully.
You know it was all donethrough ce schemes and things
(09:32):
like that, so they need a bit ofsupervision and instruction as
well.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, and then balafin, yeah, that's fantastic
place, obviously, um vastgardens and gardens that need to
feed into a, you know, afive-star hotel as well.
So it's an interesting place.
You would have got lots ofexperience there, as you said as
well.
So, yeah, again, I'd forgotten.
You did tell me that when wespoke, but I'd kind of forgotten
(09:56):
about that.
So the journey continues anywayin Salter Bridge, and it's a
private garden as such, butyou're there now for the last
couple of years.
Tell us a little bit aboutSalterbridge, you know.
Tell us you know what.
What's happening there, whathas happened there over the last
couple of years, the plansmaybe for the future, and then,
(10:16):
obviously, we get talking aboutwhat was your fantastic talk at
Buds and Blossoms on creatingthe cutting garden yeah, no,
bother.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
So, um, as I said, I I started here I think it was
october 2021 steven and helene,the owners, they they bought the
estate in august that year.
So I think one of the firstthings they did when they got
here was decided they wanted a,an upgrade to the garden.
Um, the previous owners, thewingfields, I think they'd been
here I don't think it was 100years, it was maybe around
(10:45):
around 60, 70, 80 sort of yearsand they built in an awful lot
of quite a lot of unusual treesand shrubs and that.
But there was just acres oflawn underneath it that they cut
.
So we, after I was here for acouple of months, I kind of had
a walk around with Stephen andthe owners and said, look, I
think it's got the perfect bonesfor a great woodland garden
(11:06):
here.
So we pushed down that avenue.
So that's been kind of the mainI wouldn't say the main focus,
but it's one part of the biggerproject.
So that's, since I've been here, I've planted 16, I think it's
about 1,600 trees and shrubs.
A lot of them about 400 ofthose are rhododendrons, I think
(11:26):
.
So I've got a great grove forrhododendrons and then the plan
up with that area of the gardenis two big areas of the woodland
garden.
So the plan over time is we'recurrently we've cut paths into
into what was the lawns andwe're letting them grow as
meadows over time.
We want to kind of reduce thevigor of the grass.
So this year we're going tolook at maybe planting some
(11:47):
yellow rattle and things likethat and then in a few spots I
actually have some some of thewoodland herbaceous perennials,
like you know.
So we have the the existing bigtree canopy I've under planted
with an awful lot of smallertrees and shrubs, uh, things
like that.
And you know we're mulching thewhole time that we're here.
So the area underneath isgetting larger and larger.
(12:08):
So the plan is to increase theherbaceous perennials under the
trees and shrubs like that aswell and increase.
We get some bulbs and thingslike that in there.
So that's kind of, I wouldn'tsay, the main focus, but it's
one of the big areas that Ispend a lot of time thinking
about.
Um, on top of that as well, we,I think at the front of the
(12:29):
house we've developed two largeherbaceous borders, um, both
we've kind of pulled them up.
They were awkward shaped insizes so we kind of expanded
them so that we could get more,and emptied them out and I
planted like at the momentthey're looking fantastic out
there a lot of uh, dahlias andgeraniums and penstemons and
sanguis orbas and things likethat.
(12:49):
So they're they're starting tosing and dance at this time of
year.
I've also done another twolarge um long herbaceous borders
.
I think they're both two and ahalf meters wide, they're
thereabouts, and again it's it'sgot different feels to them
along the way, um.
And then, as you said, we havethe, the cutting garden as well,
which was done last year aswell as last year I did the um.
(13:13):
It's not quite a bowling green,but certainly a fine lawn, 300
square meters up there as well.
So, and then another one forthe future is we have a two acre
walled garden that I need toput some thought into over the
next point.
You know, so it's, we're notidle for long around here yeah,
it sounds.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Sounds like it lots of projects.
It does this feel like kind ofthe first garden that you're
getting to really put your owninfluence on?
Would would that be fair to say?
Yeah, it would be it would be.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I mean, when I was at Dockerts Grove, um, I was
helpful for Robert's help.
As I say, I was probably therea bit premature in my career.
When I was at ansgrove,obviously, neil porteous was the
the garden consultant there andI wouldn't know a great deal
about woodland gardening either.
Um, so it was great to great,to learn an awful lot off of him
as well.
But this is the first one whereit's kind of um, how would you
(14:03):
say, you know, I'm getting a lotof creative freedom.
I certainly wouldn't say I cando what I want, not by a long
stretch, but I can go to theowners and discuss I'd like to
maybe do a few things here, andthe majority of the time it's
welcomed and it always improvesthe garden.
So they're enthusiastic aboutthe whole process as well.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, it's nice to have you know somewhere that you
can influence, yeah, withoutwithout having final say.
As you say, the, the ownershave that, but it is nice to
have your own influence and Isuppose, for you to be the main
advisor on the project asopposed to following someone
else's lead.
So that's, that's.
That's a nice, uh, that's anice step up yeah, yeah, yeah it
is.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I find it really rewarding to like everything
that we've done here.
You know, I was looking therethe other day at some photos I
took when I first started herein November.
It always helps when the placelooks dank and drab at the start
anyway, but you know, and thenyou skip back to how things are
looking now and like theturnaround is amazing.
(15:09):
I find those kind of thingsreally rewarding when you can
see.
I always, I always like to saythat.
You know, I've never left aplace worse than when.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I found I've always done improvements along the way.
You know, yeah and that's, yeah, that's, that's, that's good
and yeah, as you say, a nicelook back on those you mentioned
that you know, at that, at the,at some point in time, woodland
gardening wouldn't have beenyour, you know, wasn't your your
forte or your strongest point,but it sounds like now you have.
I presume you know, followingon from from man's grove, that
you've got developed thatelement of it and you're talking
(15:33):
, you've talked, about creatinga biggish wood woodland area
here.
What kind of planting are welooking at?
You did, you did say you have1600 trees and shrubs yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
So, um, as the majority of the ones that were
here, the previous owners theyplanted, they inherited a lot of
legacy oak, so we have somefantastic large oak trees here
with loads of the ferns, thepolypodums, growing up along the
branches, so I'll tell you howold they are.
The previous owners theyplanted quite a lot of acers, a
lovely Enchianthus, a Sculusindica, the Indian chestnut,
(16:07):
which is looking great at themoment as well.
So since I started again, likeI mentioned, I've planted, I
think, probably around 400rhododendrons.
When I'm doing that, I try tokind of keep them in groups that
I think look well.
You know you have to.
Although it's a large area, um,I still think you have to have a
(16:27):
design element to it.
So you've got repetition downcertain areas.
I break things off into areasthat are separate from each
other.
You know things like that.
Um, so, as we have,philadelphia's is flowering like
mad at the moment down here.
I actually cut out a few, a fewbig ones down there, lots of
Budleias.
I've started a good collectionof Hollies as well.
(16:48):
There's a great range ofHollies that you can get.
I know Ravensburg, up in Offaly, they produce an awful lot of
them.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Okay, go back to the Philadelphia Stair.
I actually only mentioned it onthe podcast last week.
It's in flower at the moment,is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The smell is incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I love them.
I think that they're greatplants.
Them and the Doitsia isfantastic plants that are
flowering at the moment as well.
Colquitsia as well is anotherone which is flowering.
All these, these sort of shrubs, you know, they don't take up a
huge amount of space.
I mean, we're blessed withhaving, I think, about 12 acres
of woodland garden that we canplay around with here, but in a
(17:27):
small garden, you know, I'veseen these planted an awful lot
in kind of small corners of thegarden.
They will, they'll take quite alot of shade and they kind of
contain themselves and they'lljust send up suckers every now
and again.
So you just keep a renewalprogram.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, keep them flowering yeah, no, there's some
brilliant ones.
I mentioned some of them lastweek and it was interesting
actually to see the commentssome of them.
Some of them are definitelyseen as old-fashioned now, but
there's some great floweringshrubs.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh yeah, absolutely like a lot of the ones that are
considered old-fashioned umfatsias.
When I was in college, fatsiafatsia japonica was a car park
plant.
You buy them for I've neverseen them in a garden center for
between seven and nine quid.
I know because everybody's gonemad for the Schefflers or the
Heptiplurums.
Now they're in the same family,aureliaeaceae, so everybody's
(18:15):
gone mad on them.
You can't get them for lessthan 20 quid.
Now it's.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, it's funny how it swings, swings yeah, like,
and Fatsy is a brilliant one inum in containers as well.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I've seen some people doing really brilliant things
with containers and Fatsy isrecently I just planted five um
Helene the owner, and we got anextension built and they've put
a patio around there and sheasked for five fatseas and
containers around there andagain like they're, they're
great.
They're evergreen, they flower,they're hardy out, they can
take sun, shade, anything youknow.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
They're bulletproof almost yeah, and you can put.
You can put your, your splashof color with your bedding or
your whatever your perennialsunderneath it, because they you
know they have that kind ofcanopy but they don't block out.
So they're, yeah, they'rebrilliant for containers,
brilliant absolutely brilliant.
Yeah, yeah, 100 yeah, so, yes,that's, that's the kind of the,
the woodland garden.
Um, you know, I know we haven'tgone into it in any great
(19:09):
detail, but the, as I said, thetheme of your, your talk at buds
and blossoms, was the creationof this, uh, cutting garden, and
I know there was.
Maybe just give us sort of anoverview of the story and we
might talk about some of theplanting that you've used.
It was, it was literally fromyou were starting from scratch
here with a deadline, I guess ofof a wedding coming up, so it
(19:33):
was interesting, yeah um yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So as I say, like um, um anyone who was at the talk,
it was essentially a greenfieldsite, wasn't it?
It was just a lawn, there was acouple of apple trees and a
couple of buddleia in there.
So I remember being in there onmy interview and walking around
with Stephen and Helene andstraight away we're kind of
(19:57):
close to the N72 here.
We're between Lismore andCap-A-Quinn, so it's a busy road
running between us, but thenthe house is kind of in front.
It's blocking the way down tothe road when you're in the
cutting guard, and then we havea stable behind us and there's a
wall adjoining the two.
(20:18):
So straight away, feel thenoise, reduce the um, the wind
drops down.
You know, it's a special littlearea in there.
So I'd always had in my mind tokind of do something, something
in that area, and beforehand itwas just a bit of a an awkward
thoroughfare.
There was a door in the wall,um, and that was about it, you
know.
So, um, yeah, I spoke to theowners after I'd been here a
(20:41):
year or two and I'd always saidto them that that would make a
great area for, you know, eithera potager it's close enough to
the house for them if theywanted to do some vegetables or
fruit or anything like that.
Or the one I was always pushingwas the cutting garden.
You know it's something thatalways I wouldn't say always,
but I I certainly um had hadintentions of doing something
(21:04):
along those lines and I loveherbaceous plant and you know
it's.
I find it's this real rewardand you get great um value.
So, yeah, so once, once theyagreed to that, um, we kind of
started.
Uh, I did quite a lot of designs.
I went through them in the.
We kind of started.
I did quite a lot of designs, Iwent through them in the talk
as well and I kind of explain alot.
(21:29):
When you're doing designs inbig areas like this, if you
answer the basic infrastructurequestions, then it does some of
the design work for you.
You know, instead of justhaving this big blank page, if
you can get a structure or thebones, bones of a design onto a
page and it takes some of thepressure off and opens up other
avenues as you go.
So, um, yeah, when was it now?
It was the year before last.
We actually started the work onit.
(21:50):
You know, I went down andpegged everything out and things
like that.
Um sprayed off the grass, dugit off, and then I suppose it
was just it's.
I probably could have got itall done realistically, and I
would have liked to got it alldone in the space of about three
, four months.
But, um, there was issues withcontractors um, letting me down
or saying that they were goingto do something and then never
(22:13):
appearing or not doing the workor it wasn't quite right, or
things like that.
So, um, eventually I had tochange the contractors and, as
you said, there was a deadline.
There was one of the sons wasgetting married on the estate
here and I wanted this to be thefocal point of the wedding.
So I remember Neil Porteoussaying to me all you need to
(22:36):
meet a deadline is a plan andnot enough time.
That's one that always stickswith me.
Saying to me all you need tomeet a deadline is a plan and
not enough time.
You know that's.
That's one that always stickswith me.
So I'm a nightmare for writingdown lists the whole time and
trying to make everything workand numbering and to get it all
in order and that like.
So it was going through thatand then eventually, you know,
we did get the the hardlandscaping side of things
(22:59):
organized.
And then the planting.
Um, yeah, the planting wasgreat, like I really enjoyed
doing a huge area like that.
Um, dahlias we we planted.
I think we had 28 varieties ofdahlia.
Um, there was loads of salvias.
I put in as well thatNachtflinder.
(23:19):
What's the other one?
Hotlips is another one as well.
So, yeah, it was good.
I had a chat with the ownersabout the color scheme.
So, again, that's anotherdecision taken out of my hand.
I find the more decisions youcan get somebody else to make,
the easier your life becomes.
(23:39):
You know so, um, like I said inthe talk as well, one thing
that I I consciously made aneffort with was reduce the
number of varieties that I grewin there.
Um, I had a lot of stuff I'vedesigned before.
It just looks like somebody gota bag of smarties and threw
them on the table.
You know, there's no, no rhyme,the reason to it.
So it's sometimes better to,you know, instead of going
(24:01):
through the catalog and oh, Ilike that, I like that, I like
that, go through and mark allthe ones that you like and then
mark a couple that you reallyreally, really like and like.
I think I was planting 65, 70of that verbena.
Uh, bampton, you know sostraight away.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
That's, that's a character plant of that area
yeah, and that that was onemajor feature of your talk was
for being a bampton in in fullflower and the, the concept of
it, drawing up along thepathways, that and and it worked
really brilliantly.
And you mentioned somethingthere at the start just in
relation to how the structuresort of can do the design for
(24:41):
you if you allow for what youneed to put in there.
And I guess in in this scenario, what you're talking about was
there was the one opening andyou wanted to create kind of
walkways through and then youknow they were the original, I
suppose, forming of what werethe beds and you had to offset
them because they weren't in in,they weren't symmetrical as
(25:01):
such.
Yeah, um, but that's a good tipfor for people at home as well,
if they're looking to createsomething like a cutting garden.
Is, you know, is there an areathat that you're trying to lead
somebody through?
Uh, get your pats in there andand have that as the step one of
creating, or where you createyour cutting garden?
I guess is it yeah, yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I mean again, um, we're very blessed here to have
space and um things like that.
But in a smaller garden, youknow, you could just section off
an area and go, right, that'swhere I'm going to produce, cut,
cut flowers, you know, and um,put the infrastructure in, get
all the hard work done first,not the hard work, but you know
the stuff which theinfrastructure in.
Get all the hard work donefirst, not the hard work, but
you know the stuff which woulddisturb, because there's no
point putting down beds and thenhaving to dig them up to put
(25:45):
back down paths and then putyour beds back down over them.
You know, so it's, if you can,if you can get a good plan that
you're happy with and stick tothat, then you know you, you
know the direction you're goingin, so it just makes your life a
bit easier.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah for sure um you you mentioned for being
abandoned.
There was also one or two othersort of hero plants that you
mentioned during your talk.
Is can you just give us a lift?
I know you said was there 20something varieties of dahlias.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So 28, 28 varieties.
Yeah, so we've put in a fewmore of this year as well, just
as an experiment.
You know it's.
It's a great thing aboutherbaceous plantains you can
play around with it the wholetime.
Um, so, yeah, verbena bampton,we had quite a lot of geraniums
in there as well.
Um, geranium silo stemming, Ithink, has been it's, it's
already in flower now.
(26:34):
It's looking fantastic at thistime year.
So it's a species.
It's very strong again.
Like the banton, it kind offalls out onto the path.
That's, that's the style I love, you know, this kind of full
feel to the beds.
Um, what else was there as wellnow?
Oh, the pheopsis, the?
Um, the small little pinhead,uh, pink flower that actually
looks exactly like, um, what wecall sticky willies and scotland
(26:57):
cleavers, I think, over here.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Like that in flower, in leaf.
Sorry, but they've got theselovely little pom-pom-shaped,
tiny little about the size of agolf ball and it's absolutely
covered in them.
The pollinators absolutelyadore it as well.
Like I mentioned, the dahlia is, I think, the best one.
It's actually in flower now.
(27:21):
I cut one yesterday.
It's one called salmon runnerand, um, like I said, as a
cutting garden you have to thinkabout how these plants perform
as as cut flowers like, and thestem on this one is.
It's over a foot long and it isit's like a bit of iron in your
hand, you know you can swingyour hand around and this thing
doesn't bend at all.
It's as fantastic as a cutflower.
Uh, as we had quite a lot ofroses, we planted in steve and
(27:43):
he, he likes roses, so I went upto robert and got quite a lot.
I think gartry check jekyll isprobably one of the best ones.
It's a brilliant rose, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely love it.
Or actually I'm growing onebecause it's it's a big area.
We I'm actually growing onecalled blush noisette, which is
technically a climber, but I'mgrowing it as a shrub just in
the back of a border.
So you know it's it's fairlyvigorous.
(28:04):
But if it leans down on theshoulder of another plant I'm
not too bothered, like it's kindof up the back and out of the
way, you know I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Now, color wise, what ?
What color is it?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
kind of very, very pale pink.
It's kind of semi-double floweron it.
Um yeah, it's just a real niceone, like it's worth worth
looking up yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Uh, just going off track here, you mentioned uh
during your talk that at onepoint in time there was a
contractor to put in paths andyou were going away on a, on a
sort of a plant finding tripwith with some of your
horticultural buddies and, uh,the plan was, when you came back
, all these paths were to bedone, and they weren't, but just
(28:42):
to hone in on the kind of plantfinding trip.
Or you know, I know you've donea few of these.
So where did you go?
What was the?
What did you find?
What was yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
So yeah, the one last year was Southwest China, a
region called Yunnan.
So anybody who knows any plantsYonanensis, you have the
rhododendron Yonanensis.
There's a lot of stuff namedYonanensis.
What's the other one?
The other name has gone out ofmy head, but you know,
yonanensis obviously refers toYunnan, so it's in the southwest
(29:15):
of China.
We were in an area that borderedTibet.
We went over for just underthree weeks and it was great.
This is the third trip that I'dbeen on similar to this before
that.
So we went to the very easternedge of the Himalayas.
That time, and I think threeyears ago, I went to the very
(29:36):
western end of the Himalayas innorthwest India, where it
borders Afghanistan, a placecalled Ladakh, but Yunnan.
It was fantastic because when wewere in Ladakh it was very high
altitude desert plants we werelooking at, so there wasn't a
great deal.
I think there was a rose there,a rose of Webiana that we saw
an awful lot of, and I knowSeamus up in Kilmakurra grows
that but other than that wedidn't see anything really
(29:57):
transferable.
Whereas as soon as we landedinto lijiang is the, the city we
went into like straight away assoon as we drove out of there.
You're seeing viburnums, you'reseeing um rhododendrons galore,
pinuses, um yeah, loads andloads of stuff.
So it's just.
I find that just it'sawe-inspiring to go out into
nature and see these plants thatyou're used to seeing in
(30:19):
gardens and in their naturalhabitat, and how they behave and
interact with each other, Ithink, is where I get a real
buzz out of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, and is this you know when you go to these
places, is it to see what couldtranslate back here, or is it
just you know, from a heart,cultural interest, that you like
to see these in their naturalhabitats, or what's the kind of
the drive here?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yeah, like to see these in their, in their natural
habitats or what's the kind ofthe drive here?
Yeah, a bit of both, liketravel as well, as this is a
great love of mine um, so itkind of mixes, mixes them
together, like you know.
But, um, certainly, in the deckand uh, parts of the trip to
china, you know, we actuallywent over what's called the
doker la, which was over 4 000meters, and we were actually
stepped into tibet, um, so atthose kind of altitudes you're
not really seeing a great deal.
(31:06):
That's going to be you're ableto grow here because it's really
really sharply drained.
Um, but on the way up there,you know, we went through
different uh vegetative umlayers all the way up, you know.
So we started the kind ofsubtropical up to the temperate
and then up to the alpine andthen to the very high alpine
stuff.
So I mean, you know we we sawan awful lot of things.
(31:28):
I actually, since I got back, Iordered a few of the
rhododendrons that we saw.
There are some sanguiniums.
I'm keeping an eye out for a fewmore um so yeah you and going
back to things that you see, onething that I saw there that I
fell in love with an awful lotof was um, the phylicterum
deleviae growing next to ahypericum forestii, and when
(31:49):
they're in flower together, Ithought that was one of the
nicest plant combinations you'llever see.
So one thing I've actuallyordered some.
I planted a load of hypericumthere last year and I just got
hold of some phylicterum earlierthis year, so I'm just going to
intermingle them and that'sexactly how it was in your nan,
you know.
So you can transfer thesethings into it and I have a few
pictures of looking up over tothe docker that and you have.
(32:11):
And there was rhododendron umwardii.
Uh, rhododendron primula,florum sang sanguinium, and then
burgini is in there and I thinkthere was a mechanopsis as well
.
You know this complete, just itwas.
It was great, I absolutelyloved it.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But you can almost pick and choose any combination
within that and it would workyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nice to
you know, like to take aphotograph like that to then
transfer it okay, it's notexactly the same, but to try and
transfer it across here andreplicate it and using something
that you've seen, I suppose, inin the wild out there.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
So it's, yeah, it's it's yeah, yeah, and even on a
more basic level as well, it'snot even just the combinations,
but I mean, beth chatto was agreat uh proponent of you know
right plant in the right place.
So if you can go to where aplant originates from and see
what it's growing, how it'sgrowing, then you have a better
understanding of it straightaway, what kind of conditions it
needs.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, what you'll need to do then to make it work
Exactly.
Yeah, for sure, any futuretrips planned?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Not at the moment.
No, we have an eight-month-oldat home, so all the current
travel plans are further thanWaterford City or need to be
bypassed.
No, nothing, nothing.
I have a few, few bubbling awayin the background.
I'd like to kind of push on,maybe in a year or so as time,
but nothing, nothing too toopressing at the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Anyway yeah, yeah, well, the eight-year-olds will
keep you, will keep you close tobase for a while and you know
for sure, or eight month old,should I say.
Um, so, in terms of salterbridge going over the next
couple of years.
So you've mentioned, you know,some of the things that you're
working on.
What is there?
Is there kind of plans in placeover the next kind of 12 months
, 18 months that are ongoing?
I know the the cutting gardenwas sort of the last big, big
(34:03):
project, but what's on the cardsover the next little while?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
uh, well, we're putting in a lake, oh wow.
So now I'm entirely steppingback from the, the the
contractor side of things andthen the the contractor here is
going to do all all the actualphysical digging work and stuff.
But I mean I'm going to have ahuge lake that I'll need
planting up relatively soon.
(34:27):
So it's going to be it's good,that's going to be really great
fun.
I think, like you know, this isone thing that the estate is
missing is water, running water,going through.
So that's that's going to begreat fun.
Doing that um other than that um, what was the other thing?
Oh yeah, up in, up in thewalled garden.
I think I'm going to startfocusing a little bit more on as
well your your talk was verygood as well, john about um
(34:50):
growing fruit and veg.
I always, because I'm from anornamental background, I always
um put fruit and veg at the verybottom of my priorities, if I'm
perfectly honest with you.
So it's kind of giving me a bitof a kick to kind of knock it
higher up on the list ofpriorities.
So I'm dedicating a day or so aweek to kind of spending a bit
of time.
We do have quite a big vegpatch up above in the wall of
(35:11):
garden.
So it's something I'm lookingto maybe expand and even start
an orchard up there, as well ason on the cards and the fruit
cage.
I think we're going to upgrade,hopefully over the autumn, into
the winter as well, so the nextyear now we can get get going
with the proper set up there.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, it's funny, the ornamental garden, from my
point of view, probably gets puton the back burner because,
again, limited time and I justdo what, what works for me,
which is at the moment justgrowing fruit and vegetables,
yeah, and obviously have a hugeinterest in the ornamental side,
(35:48):
but not to the same detail interms of plants.
You know the names of plants.
I kind of don't focus too muchon it's how it looks, um, but
again, over time I'd like tohave more time to focus on that
part of it.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But you know, again, small children like yourself,
you just focus on what you canat this point in time, but yeah,
yeah, I'm focusing on that atthe moment because, because I'm
paid to be here, our own gardenat home is taking a severe
backseat.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's a very bottom of every priority at the moment
yeah, well, that was a question,but I think we'll skip on past
that.
Then if it's uh, no, we'll getinto it anyway.
So just your own garden, thenwhat?
Like?
Obviously time wise smallchildren, their job is gardening
.
It's probably hard enough toreach on your own garden, or
what?
What do you do at home?
(36:33):
What have you?
You're probably collectingplants, I guess.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Anyway, I'd probably the um plants I collect or or
get or propagate or stuff.
I actually put them all backinto the garden.
I usually do that sort of stuffto give away as gifts.
Um, I know mike white at mountcongreve is the one who
installed that kind of thoughtprocess into me.
If you can give somebody a plan, you have a connection straight
away.
There's two gardens.
(36:56):
We've made a connection and youknow two people as well through
that one plant, um, and also,it's the best way to keep a plan
is if you give it away.
If your one dies, then you youcan always go back and get
cuttings or divisions off ofthat one.
Um, yeah, we're going back toour own garden.
Um, when we first started,there was just my myself and my
(37:16):
wife and dog.
So we, I put in quite a Iwouldn't say huge, but a big
enough herbaceous, and I I dohave a few bits and pieces that
I put into it, um, so it waskind of broken into two sides
and then we have a big lawn inthere as well.
And, yeah, I suppose it's very,a wee bit tough because, like,
(37:38):
we nevermind our child, but whenI got it all planted up and we
had a great maybe three, fourmonths out of it, but we're
absolutely plagued with deeraround here, and so we fenced
off the main garden up herearound the main house, which is
grand, but now they're comingdown to ours for their dinner,
like you know.
So right, kind of enthusiasm forit kind of wanes a little bit
(38:02):
when as you said you're up hereworking all day, you go home,
you break your back for anotherfew hours and then a deer hops
over the fence and just startsmunching on your annabelle's
like you know it, kind of uhyeah, just to drive on with.
It has gone a little bit.
So it's, I know I I try.
I got a saturday there a whileago and I did kind of start
getting back into it a wee bit.
(38:22):
So I think that we're going tolook at maybe putting some of
the chestnut paling fence aroundit or something to try and keep
the deer out a wee bit and keepBonnie, our daughter, in as
well.
So it's a double, double effect.
So, yeah, it's just, at themoment it is a bit hard, if I'm
honest, like and when I say hardI mean impossible to get out
there and do stuff.
You know, because by the timeyou sit down it's it's almost
(38:44):
eight o'clock.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
And the last thing you want to do is get back your
work gear and go back outside.
And yeah, no, for sure it's.
It's when you're when you'resmall children.
As I say, that's, that's thecase here.
The garden definitely gets puton the back burner and I just do
the essentials and I supposeit's no different than than a
lot of people you know at thisstage, I suppose, and hopefully
over time, over time, you'll getthe time to to focus on your
own you mentioned to get allright we've been at like, yeah,
(39:13):
that's a good start that's agood start.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
That's how you get any enthusiasm for a garden yeah
it's good, isn't?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
it.
Yeah, um, you mentioned acouple things there that are
interesting.
You, you mentioned um at thevery, very start.
You mentioned that your, yourgranddad, was, you know, quite a
good gardener.
You mentioned fruit.
Um, it's, it's strange because,well, it's not strange, it's,
it's, it's, it's very obviouswhen, when you, when you take it
in the context of just the lastcouple of minutes of our
(39:39):
conversation, loads of peoplethat I've had on the podcast
over the last few years have gottheir garden inspiration from
their grandparents, and I guessI'd never thought about it this
way, but I guess the lastconversation we just had, for as
a parent, you just don't havethe time for necessarily in the
early stages, and it's it's notuntil later on that that
(40:01):
somebody gets the time, but itis a brilliant connection.
Is that connection tograndparents through gardening?
It it's uh, it seems to be athread that is with a lot of
horticultural people that comeon the podcasts.
So that that was interesting.
And and also what you mentionedabout gifting plants,
especially plants that youpropagated yourself, and again,
(40:21):
that thread has always been allthe time through the podcast,
where plants are linked back tograndparents gardens or parents
gardens and, as you said, it's abrilliant gift because it keeps
that connection both betweenthe gardens and the people.
That will last you know afteryou know after somebody has
passed on or whatever.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
So yeah, yeah, well, going back to the grandparents
and parents, I think that if mydad told me to weed, it was a
chore, whereas if my granddaddid it it was a bit of crack,
you know yeah, yeah, it'samazing.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
A bit of context, uh, a bit a bit of space between it
is is good yeah you mentionedyour dad then as well, you were
saying, um, he would be twoweeks on, two weeks off.
Was he on the oil rigs?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
just yeah, he was working on their own.
To be honest with you, the vegpatch was a wee bit of an
afterthought, I think, when they, when they bought the house,
they had a veg patch and he kindof grudgingly brought it
forward and kept it yeah, yeah.
It was stubbornness, more thananything kept it going.
But I do remember God.
Do you remember those oldorange rotovators?
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Oh yeah, the big Howards.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, yeah, it was about seven or eight.
You were getting thrown aroundthis cage with one of them like
it was pretty fun at the time.
But you know, and he had a 1947massey ferguson tractor as well
, like so yeah around with thatsort of stuff.
Those, howards.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I've a real bad memory of those howards, the
very first one that I ever comeacross.
I was um in a garden and I wasasked to start it and it had one
of the winder starters on itand I I had never used one
before.
I would have seen things woundup to be started.
But this one, you know the waythey're supposed.
On the handle they're supposedto have a sleeve that that turns
(42:03):
.
Yeah, when it kicks back the,the sleeve turns in your hand
and not the actual handle.
But the sleeve was gone off itand I gave it a good wind and
then it kicked back and itwrenched all the skin off the
palm of my hand.
That was my very first memoryof those Howard Rotovators.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Well, I am a gardener , but the reason my brother
isn't is.
My dad rigged up some device toone of our lawnmowers, where
you started it with a uh, adrill, you put a socket on the
top of it, so that meant thatthere was a um a bolt spinning
around on the top of this thingin the garden.
My brother ripped his hand topieces when he was doing that
one day, like so, yeah, luckilyI dodged that one and carried on
(42:44):
gardening yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Um, your your current role.
Obviously it's uh exciting.
You have, as we said, you havethat bit of autonomy to sort of
put your own stamp on things toa certain extent or bring your
own ideas forward, you know, tobe approved or otherwise.
And yeah, it's nice to have,you know, that sort of autonomy
(43:11):
on me.
The, the gardens themselves.
They're not open gardens per se, but I know that you can kind
of open by appointment andvarious things.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
So maybe tell us a little bit about that yeah,
absolutely, um, certainly thisyear we've been I wouldn't say
busy with tours or anything likethat, but we've had more in
this year, um, than we havesince I started here.
So well, I would say, like yousaid, it's open for groups and
tours.
You know, I'd say a minimum uh,15 people to to get in.
Really, um, but, yeah, uh, byappointment.
(43:36):
My email address, I'm sure youcan put it in the link to show,
or not yet for sure, yeah, yeah,just get in touch and look we
can arrange something.
But I would like it depends onyour interest, to be honest,
like there's an awful lot hereto see, so you won't see it all
in one shot, you know.
So if you wanted to come in thespring, early spring, see the
magnolias, come in the latespring and see the rhododendrons
, and then you know the thecotton garden from kind of now
(43:59):
on, I think I was up there today.
It's looking really well at theminute and it's only going to
get better yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
And uh, I know you're doing, you're doing some talks.
You've done, obviously, budsand Blossoms.
You recently, or not too longago, did one for Robert down in
Altamount Any more on thehorizon that people should look
out for.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
I am doing one in Lismore Centre.
What is it now?
September, I think it is callthem.
They do an autumn programme oftalks, but that's going to be on
the trip to Yunnan, so I thinkthat's the only other one I have
lined up.
I think the Waterford GardenPlant Society were here at the
weekend.
They've asked me to do a talkfor them next year at some point
(44:42):
.
But yeah, if anybody does wantto talk, just let me know again.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, for sure, and for anyone that wasn't, at Buds
and Blossoms, it was a fantastic, fantastic talk.
To actually see the journeyfrom, uh, as you say, greenfield
site to full cutting garden andthen the mention of all the
really good cutting plants thatwere in there cut flower plants
that were in there was you knowit was.
(45:06):
It was really good to see thattransformation.
So, yeah, it was a brillianttalk, brilliant talk on the day
and, uh, yeah, today has beenreally, really interesting
episode and thank you very, verymuch for coming on.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Master, my garden podcast thanks for having me,
john, it's a pleasure so that'sbeen this week's episode.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
A huge thanks to colin from coming on.
Uh, as I said that the talk atbuds and blossoms was
fascinating.
I know it's a talk that he'sdelivered before I think maybe
for rhsi in the past, but keepan eye out because I'm sure it
will come up again.
It's, um, there's somebrilliant plant choices in it,
some that I wouldn't havenecessarily thought of, some
that I wouldn't have come acrossbefore as well, but all of them
(45:44):
suitable for for cut flowers.
So if you are thinking ofcreating a good flower garden
and definitely, definitely,that's worth checking out if you
do have gardening groups I knowthat a lot of gardening clubs
listen to the podcast.
Any of you guys want to visitsalter bridge, just contact
colin.
I'll put the the email in theshow notes.
Just send an email and let themknow the details and and I'm
(46:06):
sure it'll be a garden wellworth seeing.
And that's been this week'sepisode.
Thanks for listening and untilthe next time, happy gardening,
(46:38):
thank you.
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