January 2, 2024 • 35 mins
In this episode of Master Your Healthcare Career, we welcome Todd Nelson the Chief Partnership Executive at the Healthcare Financial Management Association (better known as “HFMA”). Todd leads HFMA's partnership strategy across healthcare industry sectors. HFMA is the leading association for healthcare finance professionals, serving 106,000 members in 67 chapters in the US, and has affiliations worldwide.
Before joining HFMA, Todd was the Chief Financial Officer of a rural Midwest hospital for over 15 years. He serves on several boards and academic committees. Notably, Todd is the Board Chair for CAHME for 2023-2024.
In this session Todd provides key success paths for early careerists including:
1) How being certified from an association such as HFMA and graduating from an accredited program from CAHME provides your employer with a higher level of “surety” that you can get the job done.
2) How to establish a network that serves as a “treasure map” to navigate the evolving healthcare landscape.
3) How to work within an association chapter to attain experiences that stretch your skill set.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thank you, melissa, for that introduction and want
to welcome everyone today to ourspecial guest, todd Nelson.
Todd is the current Cami boardchair and his full-time job is
the chief partnership executivewith HFMA.
So, todd, welcome to thesession today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, anthony and thank you Melissa.
It's great to be here andalways excited to talk about
health care and leadership andfinance and talk about Cami, so
all of my favorite things.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Mine as well.
So let's kind of start withthat, todd, which I think would
be helpful for people tounderstand our listeners to
understand a little bit aboutyour career journey and how that
led you to your role at HFMA.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thanks, yeah, yeah, so it was interesting.
My first job was working in amedical supply warehouse and so
I started kind of understandingsupply chain and the terminology
by working in a warehouse and afew years into that my boss
(01:16):
said you're going to go tocollege and we have people that
maybe aren't going to go tocollege, so maybe you want to
get more of an office jobbecause, frankly, there's other
people that could use this workand we love having you.
You're doing great.
(01:37):
But I know some people at theUniversity of Iowa in the
business office for the hospital.
I made an introduction Maybeyou'd like to do that and I said
well, I don't know if I want towork in a hospital.
I kind of like the guys I workwith now and this is great.
(01:58):
I mean, I'm not getting fired,am I?
No, no, no, we're justsuggesting your career
trajectory might be differentthan some other folks that work
here that'll work here the next40 years.
So I took a leap and while Istarted at the University of
Iowa, I started working in theUniversity of Iowa hospitals and
(02:19):
clinics in the business officeand learning the business
aspects of health care, and didthat through undergrad, had a
lot of great opportunities andit's usually that someone helped
me along that journey, whetherthat was working on some of the
original in vitro fertilizationgrants and helping look at that
(02:43):
when the University of Iowa wasinnovating in that space.
Whether it was doing the whatwe now call revenue cycle, but
we used to call billing back inthe day and then worked with the
volunteers that helped with thefoundation.
So for anybody that's familiarwith Iowa football and the wave
(03:05):
that happens to the Children'sHospital at the end of the first
quarter, one of our firstprojects was working with folks,
walking them as studentambassadors through the
facilities to try to build thathospital.
You know, learning how to meetwith individuals that were
(03:26):
established and kind of thediscussion and the language that
you use with that.
And and from there out of theblue, I got a call from a
headhunter when I was graduating, after working at the
University for about a year, andsaid hey, you know, I don't
know if you're interested ingoing anywhere, but we have a
(03:50):
position that we think youshould apply for.
It's in a place called Grinnell, iowa.
And do you do?
Are you familiar with Grinnell?
And I said Well, when I drivefrom Iowa City to Des Moines,
grinnell is about the midwaypoint and they've got an amazing
college there, grinnell College.
But I've never really spent alot of time and so I, needless
(04:14):
to say, I went, I interviewedfor the job, I drove around the
town and everybody waved at meand I was like this is kind of
like my hometown of Iowa City,like everybody's like hey, and I
remember thinking, do they knowwho I am?
Like?
Is this like one of those youknow old movies, a Hallmark
movie, where they've got likeeverybody there kind of waving
(04:36):
at you.
So I felt very, very much athome and throughout my tenure in
Grinnell at Grinnell RegionalMedical Center, we got to see a
lot of expansion of services.
We had to see a lot of you knownew buildings and all those
kinds of things.
Eventually I became the CFO,after taking on more and more
(04:57):
responsibility, and a lot ofthat was done by people that had
been in a position, a CFOposition, for a period of time
and served as mentors for me.
I remember my first real bigmeeting I went to was an HFMA
(05:19):
meeting.
So my HFMA journey started 1991, so a few years ago.
And I sit at the meeting andthere is the CFO of the largest
heart care multi-specialtyclinic in Iowa, the CFO for the
largest then hospital in DesMoines, iowa, and the CEO of
(05:46):
HFMA, dick Clark, and I'm eatinglunch at a table with them and
they said you know, you need tobe a member of HFMA and you need
to be active.
And I went wow like.
These are the giants, these arelike my heroes of the industry.
And you know, I still wasworking in Grinnell and then an
(06:09):
opportunity came up to work atHFMA.
I had done some advocacy andcommittee work for HFMA, I had
done it for AHA and I just feltlike Grinnell was such a great
opportunity.
But I wanted to take theknowledge that I learned and the
(06:30):
style of mentorship andleadership that people had
taught me and do that on abigger scale.
And so when HFMA had an opening, I applied for it and was lucky
enough to get it.
And I've been with HFMA nowalmost 15 years and it has been
a great journey from, you know,beginning a very technical
(06:52):
director role where I wasanalyzing IRS rules and trying
to make sense of them andinterpret them and put them into
plain language for people and Istill do some of that to
leading our education teams, allthe different types of
education that we have.
And then, you know, now my roleas Chief Partnership Executive
(07:16):
is really to work with academicorganizations, universities,
colleges, workforce developmenttype folks, as well as other
associations to think abouthealth care or health.
Many times it's from thefinance perspective, but usually
it's from a broader perspective.
(07:37):
If that's population health orvalue-based care, it's beyond
just finance, and so I've beenvery fortunate throughout my
career.
As you can tell, I'm a littleexcited about it.
I mean, I really like what I doand I feel very fortunate that
people have always been there tohelp, to guide me, to offer me
(08:01):
advice, and I think that'sreally the responsibility of all
of us as leaders, to do that aswell.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah well, and you know, it's interesting because
you talked about meeting DickClark and kind of that lunch or
that event where you were, you,Dick Clark and other CFOs there,
and Dick was a former Camiboard member many years ago and
it's gotta be neat to kind ofthink about.
(08:29):
Hey, I'm kind of following inthose footsteps and I'm doing a
lot of the same things that mymentors, your mentors, did for
you.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, it is great.
I mean you know, from DickClark to Joe Pfeiffer, was a
Cami board member, the next CEOof HFMA.
I feel very fortunate to beable to sit on the board of Cami
to chair it currently.
You know, now we've got anothernew CEO, anne Jordan, who you
(09:01):
know has got a great focus forus on the member, on the
industry, on education.
So I feel like this opportunitythat I have had, that HFMA has
had, the Cami has to really setthe standards for the industry
and ensure that we are allgiving back and that we're all
(09:24):
living up to those standards, isreally just a.
It's an exciting time, I think,for all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
HFMA plays a really important, pivotal role in
healthcare and you know, I thinka lot of people who are not in
the finance space don't reallyunderstand what HFMA is.
And you know, I remember a fewyears ago HFMA actually did
change its name from theHealthcare Financial Management
(09:52):
Association to just those fourletters HFMA.
So what tell me?
Tell me what HFMA is.
What is their role?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah.
So you know, our thoughtprocess is to be, in essence,
the indispensable, unbiasedsource for healthcare finance,
and so we, primarily, are aneducational association.
So we don't lobby as an example, and so, although we certainly
(10:29):
advise and we have an opinion,when we talk to the IRS or to
CMS or CMMI about rules andregulations, do we have an
opinion?
Sure, we absolutely have anopinion, but how we share that
is through an educational lens,and so we are working with them
(10:50):
on proposed and new rules, we'reproviding guidance, we're
interpreting them for them, butalso for our members as well,
and so a lot of what we do iseducation through e-learning,
through webinars, through liveevents, through facilitated
roundtable discussions, tryingto think about the industry as a
(11:14):
membership organization.
You know we're excited becausewe've grown.
We're, I think, over 106,000members now.
We've got 60 plus chaptersacross the US.
We have a sister organization inAustralia and the UK, and so
(11:36):
we're just really thinking abouthow do we bring the expertise
and the knowledge that we haveto the industry to raise the bar
, and you know we do it througheducation.
We also do it through manycertification programs that we
have.
We have multiple sets ofcredentials and certifications.
That helps to share with thefield, that an individual that
(12:02):
has gone through that and earnedthat credential demonstrates
practical knowledge in the fieldof that specific discipline,
whether that's revenue cycle orbusiness intelligence or
accounting and finance or as anoverall healthcare professional.
(12:22):
We have those there so thatwhen you're trying to make a
decision to hire someone andyou're not sure because maybe
they don't have experience butthey've got a credential that
means they have some of thatpractical knowledge that they
earned.
So we spend a lot of time oncredentials and then trying to
(12:42):
think about new certificationsand new credentials that people
can learn as the industrychanges and expands over time.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
The educational component within HFMA relative
to those certifications isreally an important part of it.
One of the things that I'venoticed with HFMA one of the
knocks about associations isassociations move people to the
status quo.
What I've seen with HFMA, andwith Joe Pfeiffer and Dick Clark
(13:13):
before them, is they'reactually pushing the bounds and
they're working to make theirmembers better, make their
members understand the changesin the trends in healthcare and
preparing your members to beexceptional financial executives
.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, I appreciate that you said that, because I
think we talk a lot about thepush and the pull in an
association.
You're right, we're not tryingto keep everybody at the same
level.
We're trying to push them towant to improve, to incent them
to learn more.
I think about our value projectthat we did over a decade ago.
(13:53):
That was going to talk aboutthis new thing called the
transition to value-based care.
We still look back at that.
We go man.
That's still relevant todaybecause we're still not there.
It's about thinking through thepeople process and technologies
needed to move to that nextlevel.
(14:13):
We like the opportunity to hearfrom our members, to understand
what their pain points are andthen help them move along the
road on that journey.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I remember the value-based project and the
amount of effort that went intothat part, Really how you
educated the financial world tobe prepared for it.
I think the other part for methat was really fascinating to
watch at HFMA was Joe Pfeifferand his push toward price
transparency, which to me was soforward-thinking and so
(14:51):
important for the industry tohear.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
We have talked about Chargemaster, simplification,
patient-friendly Billing decadesago to patient financial
communication, pricetransparency All of these areas
that are important not just forfinance leaders in the industry
(15:15):
but the patients and theirfamilies.
A lot of people are like whywould you, as a health finance
that's focused on hospitals andhealth systems and health plans,
why would you talk aboutworking with the consumer?
We would talk about it becausethey're our customer.
We know it's complicated.
(15:37):
We know the terminology is fullof acronyms.
Our job, our role, is to helppeople understand that.
Let's try to make it not justtransparent so that people see
it, but understandable To us.
Simplification,understandability of a complex
(15:58):
topic is important.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Understandability and logic.
I think, like most of ourlisteners, it just got a medical
, an invoice from a hospital,and it was a $1,200 charge, of
which $60 was reimbursed to them.
You look at that and goconsumer.
(16:22):
Does that make sense?
I think a lot of what HFMA isdoing around that with the
Chargemaster and part is reallymoving the field forward.
It's exciting, it really is.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I think about it like you're at a certain department
store I won't name names, butyou look at that shirt that you
think is pretty cool and it's$84.
You're like $84.
I can't pay $84 for that shirt.
But you're like oh, I reallywant it.
It says there's discountsavailable or something, but I'm
(16:54):
not sure.
You go to the checkout and it's$22.
And, by the way, you get $10with the coupons to spend the
next time.
So it ends up being $12.
And you're like I mean, I'mconfused.
How does this work?
How do you make money?
But that's probably a simpleexample of how a much more
(17:19):
complicated health care systemworks.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You talked about a whole lot of things and I want
to unpack some of them and letme go to one.
I'm trying to figure out whichone do I want to hit on first.
Let me go on the certification,because I think the HFMA
certifications and the lifelonglearning that you're engendering
within is so important.
(17:43):
But, as you know, cami doesaccreditation, so why are both
important?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, so you know we think about the certification
programs and the lifelonglearning.
Whether you're an earlycareerist, whether you are not
even kicking off your career yetbut you're somebody that's
interested in healthcare.
Whether you're a mid-careeristand you're thinking I've been in
banking forever but I'd like tomove to healthcare, but how am
(18:16):
I ever going to get a job inhealthcare?
I need to demonstrate somecompetence.
Or if you're somebody that ismore tenured in your career and
you're looking for a promotionor advancement, something like
that.
The certifications again offerthe ability to demonstrate
knowledge in a certain area andI think you know we've built
(18:39):
them that way.
We've built them such that youtake the content, you understand
the content and then you havean assessment that helps you to
determine that you know and youknow.
I think of Cammie's role when Ithink about how Cammie looks at
the field and the competenciesand the skills and the knowledge
(19:00):
that's required and setsstandards related to that to try
to ensure that the bar israised.
And it's not that the fieldisn't already doing an amazing
job they are but somebodysomewhere needs something,
whether it's a program or anindividual, to say you know,
(19:24):
you're meeting a certain level,that's been set a standard
that's been set.
So if it's through Cammie andit's a standard that's been set,
you know that that programmeets those standards.
Or if it's as an individual,and I need to demonstrate I'm
proficient in revenue cycle anda certification meets that
standard, and so it's really.
(19:47):
You know they're very similarfrom what we're trying to do
from a content learning,teaching perspective, with a
certification credential badgethat says yep, we got it, and
the badge of Cammie thatprograms earn, and we know that
you know the badge is importantfor programs to earn.
(20:11):
So from a Cammie perspective,we also know it's not easy.
You know.
We know that this isn't justshow up and whoop, yep, here's
the gold star, congratulations.
We know programs put a lot ofwork into it to meet those
standards.
They're difficult to meet butappropriately so.
(20:32):
To ensure that when I'm astudent or an employer that is
looking to determine thebackground and skills and
talents and the level of rigorthat Cammie accredited
demonstrates that there's alevel of rigor there for that
program and I think that's youknow.
(20:53):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, to me what it does is it also provides a level
of surety to your employer.
If I'm a fellow in HFMA, thatmeans I've gone through the
rigor of learning all aboutdifferent components of finance
within healthcare, from supplychain logistics all the way up
to revenue cycle, and I've knownthat I've at least been exposed
(21:21):
to that and have been educatedand been certified by HFMA.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Absolutely.
And the cool part secondarypart of the fellow is you've
also been a leader and givenback to the industry.
So you can give back through alocal chapter, you can give back
through speaking and presenting, you can give back by being a
faculty member.
I mean there's a lot ofdifferent ways.
(21:48):
So it's yeah, I learned thestuff and took an assessment and
passed, but then I took thatknowledge and I did something
with it and to me that's themark of a fellow is somebody
that has gone above and beyondand given back to the industry,
whether that's formally throughbeing a faculty member in a
(22:08):
program or it's serving as achapter leader.
There's just a lot of differentways that people can give back
to become a fellow.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I love that concept of giving back and that's going
to kind of lead into thediscussion I want to go to next
with you, which is around thechapters.
So one of the things that Ialways, when I talk to students
talk about how to be successful,and what I say is don't network
, don't network, but helpsomeone.
(22:40):
And I think one of the greatways to help other people is
through the chapter kind ofprocess and, especially as an
early careerist, beginning atthe chapters is such a core part
of what you want to accomplishas a professional.
So talk a little bit about thechapter process.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, the chapters are really interesting.
They're a great opportunity andincubator for people to get
involved, to understand from theexperience of others in the
industry all aspects of thehealthcare industry.
So if I'm a student, I get anetwork with people that maybe
(23:25):
will be an employer someday.
But I also get a network andjust understand what are the
important issues that theindustry is facing and I get to
share what my thoughts are on it.
So you have the ability toinfluence and bring your
(23:46):
experience and when I sayexperience, everybody's got
experience personal experience,professional experience and talk
with people about it and it's awonderful way to demonstrate
your ability to hold aconversation, your ability to
raise your hand and get involvedand a lot of the chapter
experience as well, becausethey're formal, they have a
(24:10):
formal board of directors, theyhave committees for people to
get involved.
It's a great way for a student,but also people in the
profession working at whateverstage of their career, to
demonstrate leadership ability.
And the executive committeeroles in the chapter the board,
(24:31):
member, chapter roles, thecommittee you get to learn a
whole set of leadership skills,frankly, that you don't when
you're working per se.
Right, you're in your job andyou have so if you made it to
manager, that's great, but maybeyou're not a manager.
Maybe I'm a staff accountantplaying a very important role,
(24:53):
but I don't get an opportunityto lead a meeting.
I don't know what putting abudget together is per se, or
how do I organize a group of 150people to come to a hotel and a
program.
I mean.
It really allows you todemonstrate and learn some
leadership capabilities.
(25:13):
So the chapters are a greatsource and it also grounds the
folks in the chapter in localissues but also helps serve as a
feeder for the largerorganization to understand what
are those local issues and arethere commonalities across
states and regions so that on anational basis we can learn from
(25:36):
them and head in a directionthat helps everyone.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
As a former not HFMA chapter leader, but as a former
leader.
Somehow I became the presidentof the Healthcare Planning and
Marketing Society of New Jersey,which was a really kind of
pivotal experience for meearlier in my career.
But you learn how to lead withreferent power and you don't
(26:04):
have direct authority overanyone.
That's kind of volunteering inthis, but it's how do you get
people on board and marchingtoward a common goal without any
direct lines of authority,hiring and firing and salaries
and all that stuff.
But how do you get peoplemoving along?
And I think that's really oneof the big for any students kind
(26:27):
of listening out there andgoing.
How do I learn the skills?
Think about joining a chapterand getting involved.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Well, and volunteer leadership through HFMA, I think
, peaks people's interest inleadership in general and maybe
they'll get that opportunity attheir employer, wherever that is
.
But more often than not, peopleworking in healthcare
leadership are also leading abunch of community-based
(26:56):
organizations, whether that isyour religious organization,
whether that is your sportsorganization, whether that is
the soccer, softball, track,football, whatever team of your
children, whether that's or acampy.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, or a campy, or a campy.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Right, and so I mean it provides that opportunity and
that spark for you to say Ikind of like this way of giving
back to.
I like volunteering and somepeople want to volunteer at
Habitat for Humanity and gobuild a house.
Other people want to volunteertheir expertise from a
(27:32):
leadership perspective, helpingto run a nonprofit organization,
and I think it's a greatopportunity for both of those
and, frankly, it's a greatopportunity working with Cammie
on the volunteer board and doingthat as well.
I mean, it's just it's amazingto see what this group of board
(27:52):
and committee and structure andhow committed they are to the
profession and to the industry.
And I always think about thephrase we use our powers for
good, and I mean with greatpower comes great responsibility
.
And I think Cammie as a boardand staff and committee really
(28:13):
understand how important workthat we are doing and we're
listening and we want tocontinuously get better.
So I'm just thrilled to havethe opportunity to be part of
Cammie and to have been part ofCammie for years now.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No and Todd, I served on the board of Cammie prior to
taking this role, in a similarway that you did as a volunteer,
and the part that really blewme away about Cammie was
watching all of the intensitythat people look at when we
review a program, and it's anearnestness, it's an honestness,
(28:55):
it's making sure that studentsare well prepared to lead, and
you see that from practitionerslike yourself who volunteer at
Cammie.
You see it from the academicsthat are involved and you see it
from the programs that arehelping other programs get
better.
It really is a neat role tokind of see.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
The detailed process that folks go to, that the
Cammie staff, the site visitors,the fellows, everyone goes
through along hand in hand withthe programs to look at the
standards and sure people areprepared.
That is probably the thing thathas most surprised me the level
(29:41):
of detail that folks go throughand the level of scrutiny and
discussion and debate andcollegial all those things to
ensure that those standards aremet.
I mean, I am so impressed bythe dedication of everyone,
(30:02):
whether I'm a program, a dean, apresident of a school, whether
I'm a student, whether I'm aCammie staff member, whether I'm
a site visitor, just thepassion and preparation that
people have is really tremendous.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, absolutely.
Well, before I conclude, I dowant to talk to you about one
university that you've gotteninvolved with a lot and HFMA has
a partnership with, and that'sBoise State.
And Boise State was the winnerof the Cammie George and Reggie
Herzlinger Award for Innovationand Healthcare Management
(30:37):
Education in 2023.
And Jenny Gutapati is just anamazing leader of that
organization.
What led HFMA to say, hey, wewant to partner with Boise State
in here.
What was the genesis of that?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You know, I mentioned the value project that we did
over a decade ago and We've beenthinking a lot about the desire
to truly partner from thebeginning with a program, to be
partners in a master's leveldegree.
We do a lot of partnershipsthat are workshop related or
(31:17):
conference related.
We partner with other academicorganizations around content and
adjunct faculty and thosethings.
But we really wanted to inessence to use one of those cool
buzzwords co-create a master'sdegree program with another
(31:38):
organization.
I met Jenny through a colleagueand we started talking about it
and they thought this would beinteresting to work with an
association.
And so we've got an academicinstitution and association
started day one togetherbuilding this program.
So we built it from the groundup together and for us it wasn't
(32:05):
just to say that we could do it, but it was also to ensure that
faculty and others hadexperience in the field so that
the students would learn frompeople currently doing the stuff
(32:25):
they're talking about.
And so when you're learning theactuarial science, you are
talking to an actuary from ahealth plan that is currently
looking at those tables.
So I'm like it is really what'shappening.
When you're talking aboutbusiness analytics and quality,
your faculty member is abusiness analytics quality
(32:46):
person working in the world ofassociation, quality and
analytics.
I mean, these are the people,and so that's kind of what we
wanted to do and create.
We also were excited because wethought, well, what if we would
get, I guess, lectures everyweek from the field also to
(33:08):
continue to?
So, yes, there's definitelyacademic rigor, don't.
Don't.
Don't kid yourself if anybodythinks, oh well, it's just a
bunch of videos and things.
No, no, no.
I mean this is a master'sdegree level program, but we
added all of these guestlectures.
I think we have over 80throughout the program that come
in so you're learning aboutstrategy from one of the key
(33:31):
strategic thinkers.
I mean, it's the way we designedthe program and and frankly it
was I'm almost speechlessthinking about the George and
Reggie Hurslinger EducationInnovation Award.
We are so proud to earn that,not just because we thought it
(33:53):
was pretty innovative, but to bevalidated.
That someone else thought itwas was pretty amazing, and for
it to be part of Cami as well Iknow Jenny was.
She was beside herself when sheheard about it and she and I
have this energy level thatseems endless on days, but we
(34:13):
love this opportunity to partnerwith Boise State and it's it's
been a great journey.
And the students that we'regetting and the outcomes and
they are I mean we call it atransformative degree and they
are the health care transformersand I'll tell you what they are
ready to transform the industry.
So we're excited.
The first cohort graduates thisDecember actually next week so
(34:36):
it's it's been a great journeyso far.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well, I you know you talk about Jenny's passion.
It was one of the coolest callsI've ever made.
When I called her up tocongratulate her for winning the
award and tears just flowed andI think it was.
It's certainly a passionproject for her and she just was
was really happy to kind ofhear that this external
organization felt that she wasreally doing something pretty
(35:02):
cool.
Well, let me let me kind ofpivot and I know we're coming to
the end of our time right here.
And, todd, at the verybeginning you talked about
working in central supply at ahospital and one of the things
that I remember very early in mycareer when I was doing my
(35:23):
administrative residency wasgoing into the bowels and it
really literally was in thebowels of graduate hospital.
I forget the steps we had to godown in the elevators and
separate areas and this hugekind of cavernous place with
every supply ever within ahospital was in there.
It's an interesting part thatthat's where you began your
(35:47):
journey.
If you were to talk to astudent right now who really
wanted to make a difference inhealth care and you had to give
them some advice, what wouldthat be?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Take every opportunity that's presented to
you.
So if someone says, hey, wouldyou like to sit in on this
meeting, the answer is yes.
Even if you don't like meetings, and even if you don't know
anything about the subject, theanswer is yes.
When they ask for a volunteerto do something, don't be afraid
to volunteer, because that'show you're going to learn, even
if it's out of your comfort zone.
(36:26):
I just think those are tworeally important things, and the
third one I would say is bepatient, because we all are
motivated, excited and ready tochange the world.
But sometimes our desire tochange the world doesn't match
up with the opportunity tochange the world, and it's
(36:47):
really hard, when you'remotivated and excited, to be
patient.
In fact, it's really hard to bepatient.
That is one of the things thatis the most difficult for me,
because I'm an excitable, readyto do something to change the
world person.
Patience is difficult, but Ijust remind them to keep it in
the back of their mind becausegood things do come.
(37:09):
It may not come exactly thesame way, but I think that's the
most important thing.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
It may not come exactly whenyou want it to, but relish the
opportunities you have now,learn everything you can
volunteer, be patient andeventually I really do believe
that it does work out.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
And I've seen it too, so many times across
exceptional people in theircareers that that does occur.
Well, todd, this was a greatconversation and just appreciate
you coming on and being part ofour podcast.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
Thank you for your service toCami as a board chair.
(37:50):
I know that's a lot of work onyour part and I appreciate your
leadership and advice as well.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Thank you, Anthony.
Thank you for having me and wasjust so pleased to be asked.
So thank you so much foreverything you do for the
industry and certainly leadingCami.
Thanks, Todd.
Thank you, melissa, for that introduction and want
to welcome everyone today to ourspecial guest, todd Nelson.
Todd is the current Cami boardchair and his full-time job is
the chief partnership executivewith HFMA.
So, todd, welcome to thesession today.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, anthony and thank you Melissa.
It's great to be here andalways excited to talk about
health care and leadership andfinance and talk about Cami, so
all of my favorite things.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Mine as well.
So let's kind of start withthat, todd, which I think would
be helpful for people tounderstand our listeners to
understand a little bit aboutyour career journey and how that
led you to your role at HFMA.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thanks, yeah, yeah, so it was interesting.
My first job was working in amedical supply warehouse and so
I started kind of understandingsupply chain and the terminology
by working in a warehouse and afew years into that my boss
(01:16):
said you're going to go tocollege and we have people that
maybe aren't going to go tocollege, so maybe you want to
get more of an office jobbecause, frankly, there's other
people that could use this workand we love having you.
You're doing great.
(01:37):
But I know some people at theUniversity of Iowa in the
business office for the hospital.
I made an introduction Maybeyou'd like to do that and I said
well, I don't know if I want towork in a hospital.
I kind of like the guys I workwith now and this is great.
(01:58):
I mean, I'm not getting fired,am I?
No, no, no, we're justsuggesting your career
trajectory might be differentthan some other folks that work
here that'll work here the next40 years.
So I took a leap and while Istarted at the University of
Iowa, I started working in theUniversity of Iowa hospitals and
(02:19):
clinics in the business officeand learning the business
aspects of health care, and didthat through undergrad, had a
lot of great opportunities andit's usually that someone helped
me along that journey, whetherthat was working on some of the
original in vitro fertilizationgrants and helping look at that
(02:43):
when the University of Iowa wasinnovating in that space.
Whether it was doing the whatwe now call revenue cycle, but
we used to call billing back inthe day and then worked with the
volunteers that helped with thefoundation.
So for anybody that's familiarwith Iowa football and the wave
(03:05):
that happens to the Children'sHospital at the end of the first
quarter, one of our firstprojects was working with folks,
walking them as studentambassadors through the
facilities to try to build thathospital.
You know, learning how to meetwith individuals that were
(03:26):
established and kind of thediscussion and the language that
you use with that.
And and from there out of theblue, I got a call from a
headhunter when I was graduating, after working at the
University for about a year, andsaid hey, you know, I don't
know if you're interested ingoing anywhere, but we have a
(03:50):
position that we think youshould apply for.
It's in a place called Grinnell, iowa.
And do you do?
Are you familiar with Grinnell?
And I said Well, when I drivefrom Iowa City to Des Moines,
grinnell is about the midwaypoint and they've got an amazing
college there, grinnell College.
But I've never really spent alot of time and so I, needless
(04:14):
to say, I went, I interviewedfor the job, I drove around the
town and everybody waved at meand I was like this is kind of
like my hometown of Iowa City,like everybody's like hey, and I
remember thinking, do they knowwho I am?
Like?
Is this like one of those youknow old movies, a Hallmark
movie, where they've got likeeverybody there kind of waving
(04:36):
at you.
So I felt very, very much athome and throughout my tenure in
Grinnell at Grinnell RegionalMedical Center, we got to see a
lot of expansion of services.
We had to see a lot of you knownew buildings and all those
kinds of things.
Eventually I became the CFO,after taking on more and more
(04:57):
responsibility, and a lot ofthat was done by people that had
been in a position, a CFOposition, for a period of time
and served as mentors for me.
I remember my first real bigmeeting I went to was an HFMA
(05:19):
meeting.
So my HFMA journey started 1991, so a few years ago.
And I sit at the meeting andthere is the CFO of the largest
heart care multi-specialtyclinic in Iowa, the CFO for the
largest then hospital in DesMoines, iowa, and the CEO of
(05:46):
HFMA, dick Clark, and I'm eatinglunch at a table with them and
they said you know, you need tobe a member of HFMA and you need
to be active.
And I went wow like.
These are the giants, these arelike my heroes of the industry.
And you know, I still wasworking in Grinnell and then an
(06:09):
opportunity came up to work atHFMA.
I had done some advocacy andcommittee work for HFMA, I had
done it for AHA and I just feltlike Grinnell was such a great
opportunity.
But I wanted to take theknowledge that I learned and the
(06:30):
style of mentorship andleadership that people had
taught me and do that on abigger scale.
And so when HFMA had an opening, I applied for it and was lucky
enough to get it.
And I've been with HFMA nowalmost 15 years and it has been
a great journey from, you know,beginning a very technical
(06:52):
director role where I wasanalyzing IRS rules and trying
to make sense of them andinterpret them and put them into
plain language for people and Istill do some of that to
leading our education teams, allthe different types of
education that we have.
And then, you know, now my roleas Chief Partnership Executive
(07:16):
is really to work with academicorganizations, universities,
colleges, workforce developmenttype folks, as well as other
associations to think abouthealth care or health.
Many times it's from thefinance perspective, but usually
it's from a broader perspective.
(07:37):
If that's population health orvalue-based care, it's beyond
just finance, and so I've beenvery fortunate throughout my
career.
As you can tell, I'm a littleexcited about it.
I mean, I really like what I doand I feel very fortunate that
people have always been there tohelp, to guide me, to offer me
(08:01):
advice, and I think that'sreally the responsibility of all
of us as leaders, to do that aswell.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah well, and you know, it's interesting because
you talked about meeting DickClark and kind of that lunch or
that event where you were, you,Dick Clark and other CFOs there,
and Dick was a former Camiboard member many years ago and
it's gotta be neat to kind ofthink about.
(08:29):
Hey, I'm kind of following inthose footsteps and I'm doing a
lot of the same things that mymentors, your mentors, did for
you.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, it is great.
I mean you know, from DickClark to Joe Pfeiffer, was a
Cami board member, the next CEOof HFMA.
I feel very fortunate to beable to sit on the board of Cami
to chair it currently.
You know, now we've got anothernew CEO, anne Jordan, who you
(09:01):
know has got a great focus forus on the member, on the
industry, on education.
So I feel like this opportunitythat I have had, that HFMA has
had, the Cami has to really setthe standards for the industry
and ensure that we are allgiving back and that we're all
(09:24):
living up to those standards, isreally just a.
It's an exciting time, I think,for all of us.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
HFMA plays a really important, pivotal role in
healthcare and you know, I thinka lot of people who are not in
the finance space don't reallyunderstand what HFMA is.
And you know, I remember a fewyears ago HFMA actually did
change its name from theHealthcare Financial Management
(09:52):
Association to just those fourletters HFMA.
So what tell me?
Tell me what HFMA is.
What is their role?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah.
So you know, our thoughtprocess is to be, in essence,
the indispensable, unbiasedsource for healthcare finance,
and so we, primarily, are aneducational association.
So we don't lobby as an example, and so, although we certainly
(10:29):
advise and we have an opinion,when we talk to the IRS or to
CMS or CMMI about rules andregulations, do we have an
opinion?
Sure, we absolutely have anopinion, but how we share that
is through an educational lens,and so we are working with them
(10:50):
on proposed and new rules, we'reproviding guidance, we're
interpreting them for them, butalso for our members as well,
and so a lot of what we do iseducation through e-learning,
through webinars, through liveevents, through facilitated
roundtable discussions, tryingto think about the industry as a
(11:14):
membership organization.
You know we're excited becausewe've grown.
We're, I think, over 106,000members now.
We've got 60 plus chaptersacross the US.
We have a sister organization inAustralia and the UK, and so
(11:36):
we're just really thinking abouthow do we bring the expertise
and the knowledge that we haveto the industry to raise the bar
, and you know we do it througheducation.
We also do it through manycertification programs that we
have.
We have multiple sets ofcredentials and certifications.
That helps to share with thefield, that an individual that
(12:02):
has gone through that and earnedthat credential demonstrates
practical knowledge in the fieldof that specific discipline,
whether that's revenue cycle orbusiness intelligence or
accounting and finance or as anoverall healthcare professional.
(12:22):
We have those there so thatwhen you're trying to make a
decision to hire someone andyou're not sure because maybe
they don't have experience butthey've got a credential that
means they have some of thatpractical knowledge that they
earned.
So we spend a lot of time oncredentials and then trying to
(12:42):
think about new certificationsand new credentials that people
can learn as the industrychanges and expands over time.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
The educational component within HFMA relative
to those certifications isreally an important part of it.
One of the things that I'venoticed with HFMA one of the
knocks about associations isassociations move people to the
status quo.
What I've seen with HFMA, andwith Joe Pfeiffer and Dick Clark
(13:13):
before them, is they'reactually pushing the bounds and
they're working to make theirmembers better, make their
members understand the changesin the trends in healthcare and
preparing your members to beexceptional financial executives
.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, I appreciate that you said that, because I
think we talk a lot about thepush and the pull in an
association.
You're right, we're not tryingto keep everybody at the same
level.
We're trying to push them towant to improve, to incent them
to learn more.
I think about our value projectthat we did over a decade ago.
(13:53):
That was going to talk aboutthis new thing called the
transition to value-based care.
We still look back at that.
We go man.
That's still relevant todaybecause we're still not there.
It's about thinking through thepeople process and technologies
needed to move to that nextlevel.
(14:13):
We like the opportunity to hearfrom our members, to understand
what their pain points are andthen help them move along the
road on that journey.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I remember the value-based project and the
amount of effort that went intothat part, Really how you
educated the financial world tobe prepared for it.
I think the other part for methat was really fascinating to
watch at HFMA was Joe Pfeifferand his push toward price
transparency, which to me was soforward-thinking and so
(14:51):
important for the industry tohear.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
We have talked about Chargemaster, simplification,
patient-friendly Billing decadesago to patient financial
communication, pricetransparency All of these areas
that are important not just forfinance leaders in the industry
(15:15):
but the patients and theirfamilies.
A lot of people are like whywould you, as a health finance
that's focused on hospitals andhealth systems and health plans,
why would you talk aboutworking with the consumer?
We would talk about it becausethey're our customer.
We know it's complicated.
(15:37):
We know the terminology is fullof acronyms.
Our job, our role, is to helppeople understand that.
Let's try to make it not justtransparent so that people see
it, but understandable To us.
Simplification,understandability of a complex
(15:58):
topic is important.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Understandability and logic.
I think, like most of ourlisteners, it just got a medical
, an invoice from a hospital,and it was a $1,200 charge, of
which $60 was reimbursed to them.
You look at that and goconsumer.
(16:22):
Does that make sense?
I think a lot of what HFMA isdoing around that with the
Chargemaster and part is reallymoving the field forward.
It's exciting, it really is.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
I think about it like you're at a certain department
store I won't name names, butyou look at that shirt that you
think is pretty cool and it's$84.
You're like $84.
I can't pay $84 for that shirt.
But you're like oh, I reallywant it.
It says there's discountsavailable or something, but I'm
(16:54):
not sure.
You go to the checkout and it's$22.
And, by the way, you get $10with the coupons to spend the
next time.
So it ends up being $12.
And you're like I mean, I'mconfused.
How does this work?
How do you make money?
But that's probably a simpleexample of how a much more
(17:19):
complicated health care systemworks.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You talked about a whole lot of things and I want
to unpack some of them and letme go to one.
I'm trying to figure out whichone do I want to hit on first.
Let me go on the certification,because I think the HFMA
certifications and the lifelonglearning that you're engendering
within is so important.
(17:43):
But, as you know, cami doesaccreditation, so why are both
important?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, so you know we think about the certification
programs and the lifelonglearning.
Whether you're an earlycareerist, whether you are not
even kicking off your career yetbut you're somebody that's
interested in healthcare.
Whether you're a mid-careeristand you're thinking I've been in
banking forever but I'd like tomove to healthcare, but how am
(18:16):
I ever going to get a job inhealthcare?
I need to demonstrate somecompetence.
Or if you're somebody that ismore tenured in your career and
you're looking for a promotionor advancement, something like
that.
The certifications again offerthe ability to demonstrate
knowledge in a certain area andI think you know we've built
(18:39):
them that way.
We've built them such that youtake the content, you understand
the content and then you havean assessment that helps you to
determine that you know and youknow.
I think of Cammie's role when Ithink about how Cammie looks at
the field and the competenciesand the skills and the knowledge
(19:00):
that's required and setsstandards related to that to try
to ensure that the bar israised.
And it's not that the fieldisn't already doing an amazing
job they are but somebodysomewhere needs something,
whether it's a program or anindividual, to say you know,
(19:24):
you're meeting a certain level,that's been set a standard
that's been set.
So if it's through Cammie andit's a standard that's been set,
you know that that programmeets those standards.
Or if it's as an individual,and I need to demonstrate I'm
proficient in revenue cycle anda certification meets that
standard, and so it's really.
(19:47):
You know they're very similarfrom what we're trying to do
from a content learning,teaching perspective, with a
certification credential badgethat says yep, we got it, and
the badge of Cammie thatprograms earn, and we know that
you know the badge is importantfor programs to earn.
(20:11):
So from a Cammie perspective,we also know it's not easy.
You know.
We know that this isn't justshow up and whoop, yep, here's
the gold star, congratulations.
We know programs put a lot ofwork into it to meet those
standards.
They're difficult to meet butappropriately so.
(20:32):
To ensure that when I'm astudent or an employer that is
looking to determine thebackground and skills and
talents and the level of rigorthat Cammie accredited
demonstrates that there's alevel of rigor there for that
program and I think that's youknow.
(20:53):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, to me what it does is it also provides a level
of surety to your employer.
If I'm a fellow in HFMA, thatmeans I've gone through the
rigor of learning all aboutdifferent components of finance
within healthcare, from supplychain logistics all the way up
to revenue cycle, and I've knownthat I've at least been exposed
(21:21):
to that and have been educatedand been certified by HFMA.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Absolutely.
And the cool part secondarypart of the fellow is you've
also been a leader and givenback to the industry.
So you can give back through alocal chapter, you can give back
through speaking and presenting, you can give back by being a
faculty member.
I mean there's a lot ofdifferent ways.
(21:48):
So it's yeah, I learned thestuff and took an assessment and
passed, but then I took thatknowledge and I did something
with it and to me that's themark of a fellow is somebody
that has gone above and beyondand given back to the industry,
whether that's formally throughbeing a faculty member in a
(22:08):
program or it's serving as achapter leader.
There's just a lot of differentways that people can give back
to become a fellow.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I love that concept of giving back and that's going
to kind of lead into thediscussion I want to go to next
with you, which is around thechapters.
So one of the things that Ialways, when I talk to students
talk about how to be successful,and what I say is don't network
, don't network, but helpsomeone.
(22:40):
And I think one of the greatways to help other people is
through the chapter kind ofprocess and, especially as an
early careerist, beginning atthe chapters is such a core part
of what you want to accomplishas a professional.
So talk a little bit about thechapter process.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, the chapters are really interesting.
They're a great opportunity andincubator for people to get
involved, to understand from theexperience of others in the
industry all aspects of thehealthcare industry.
So if I'm a student, I get anetwork with people that maybe
(23:25):
will be an employer someday.
But I also get a network andjust understand what are the
important issues that theindustry is facing and I get to
share what my thoughts are on it.
So you have the ability toinfluence and bring your
(23:46):
experience and when I sayexperience, everybody's got
experience personal experience,professional experience and talk
with people about it and it's awonderful way to demonstrate
your ability to hold aconversation, your ability to
raise your hand and get involvedand a lot of the chapter
experience as well, becausethey're formal, they have a
(24:10):
formal board of directors, theyhave committees for people to
get involved.
It's a great way for a student,but also people in the
profession working at whateverstage of their career, to
demonstrate leadership ability.
And the executive committeeroles in the chapter the board,
(24:31):
member, chapter roles, thecommittee you get to learn a
whole set of leadership skills,frankly, that you don't when
you're working per se.
Right, you're in your job andyou have so if you made it to
manager, that's great, but maybeyou're not a manager.
Maybe I'm a staff accountantplaying a very important role,
(24:53):
but I don't get an opportunityto lead a meeting.
I don't know what putting abudget together is per se, or
how do I organize a group of 150people to come to a hotel and a
program.
I mean.
It really allows you todemonstrate and learn some
leadership capabilities.
(25:13):
So the chapters are a greatsource and it also grounds the
folks in the chapter in localissues but also helps serve as a
feeder for the largerorganization to understand what
are those local issues and arethere commonalities across
states and regions so that on anational basis we can learn from
(25:36):
them and head in a directionthat helps everyone.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
As a former not HFMA chapter leader, but as a former
leader.
Somehow I became the presidentof the Healthcare Planning and
Marketing Society of New Jersey,which was a really kind of
pivotal experience for meearlier in my career.
But you learn how to lead withreferent power and you don't
(26:04):
have direct authority overanyone.
That's kind of volunteering inthis, but it's how do you get
people on board and marchingtoward a common goal without any
direct lines of authority,hiring and firing and salaries
and all that stuff.
But how do you get peoplemoving along?
And I think that's really oneof the big for any students kind
(26:27):
of listening out there andgoing.
How do I learn the skills?
Think about joining a chapterand getting involved.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Well, and volunteer leadership through HFMA, I think
, peaks people's interest inleadership in general and maybe
they'll get that opportunity attheir employer, wherever that is
.
But more often than not, peopleworking in healthcare
leadership are also leading abunch of community-based
(26:56):
organizations, whether that isyour religious organization,
whether that is your sportsorganization, whether that is
the soccer, softball, track,football, whatever team of your
children, whether that's or acampy.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, or a campy, or a campy.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Right, and so I mean it provides that opportunity and
that spark for you to say Ikind of like this way of giving
back to.
I like volunteering and somepeople want to volunteer at
Habitat for Humanity and gobuild a house.
Other people want to volunteertheir expertise from a
(27:32):
leadership perspective, helpingto run a nonprofit organization,
and I think it's a greatopportunity for both of those
and, frankly, it's a greatopportunity working with Cammie
on the volunteer board and doingthat as well.
I mean, it's just it's amazingto see what this group of board
(27:52):
and committee and structure andhow committed they are to the
profession and to the industry.
And I always think about thephrase we use our powers for
good, and I mean with greatpower comes great responsibility
.
And I think Cammie as a boardand staff and committee really
(28:13):
understand how important workthat we are doing and we're
listening and we want tocontinuously get better.
So I'm just thrilled to havethe opportunity to be part of
Cammie and to have been part ofCammie for years now.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No and Todd, I served on the board of Cammie prior to
taking this role, in a similarway that you did as a volunteer,
and the part that really blewme away about Cammie was
watching all of the intensitythat people look at when we
review a program, and it's anearnestness, it's an honestness,
(28:55):
it's making sure that studentsare well prepared to lead, and
you see that from practitionerslike yourself who volunteer at
Cammie.
You see it from the academicsthat are involved and you see it
from the programs that arehelping other programs get
better.
It really is a neat role tokind of see.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
The detailed process that folks go to, that the
Cammie staff, the site visitors,the fellows, everyone goes
through along hand in hand withthe programs to look at the
standards and sure people areprepared.
That is probably the thing thathas most surprised me the level
(29:41):
of detail that folks go throughand the level of scrutiny and
discussion and debate andcollegial all those things to
ensure that those standards aremet.
I mean, I am so impressed bythe dedication of everyone,
(30:02):
whether I'm a program, a dean, apresident of a school, whether
I'm a student, whether I'm aCammie staff member, whether I'm
a site visitor, just thepassion and preparation that
people have is really tremendous.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, absolutely.
Well, before I conclude, I dowant to talk to you about one
university that you've gotteninvolved with a lot and HFMA has
a partnership with, and that'sBoise State.
And Boise State was the winnerof the Cammie George and Reggie
Herzlinger Award for Innovationand Healthcare Management
(30:37):
Education in 2023.
And Jenny Gutapati is just anamazing leader of that
organization.
What led HFMA to say, hey, wewant to partner with Boise State
in here.
What was the genesis of that?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You know, I mentioned the value project that we did
over a decade ago and We've beenthinking a lot about the desire
to truly partner from thebeginning with a program, to be
partners in a master's leveldegree.
We do a lot of partnershipsthat are workshop related or
(31:17):
conference related.
We partner with other academicorganizations around content and
adjunct faculty and thosethings.
But we really wanted to inessence to use one of those cool
buzzwords co-create a master'sdegree program with another
(31:38):
organization.
I met Jenny through a colleagueand we started talking about it
and they thought this would beinteresting to work with an
association.
And so we've got an academicinstitution and association
started day one togetherbuilding this program.
So we built it from the groundup together and for us it wasn't
(32:05):
just to say that we could do it, but it was also to ensure that
faculty and others hadexperience in the field so that
the students would learn frompeople currently doing the stuff
(32:25):
they're talking about.
And so when you're learning theactuarial science, you are
talking to an actuary from ahealth plan that is currently
looking at those tables.
So I'm like it is really what'shappening.
When you're talking aboutbusiness analytics and quality,
your faculty member is abusiness analytics quality
(32:46):
person working in the world ofassociation, quality and
analytics.
I mean, these are the people,and so that's kind of what we
wanted to do and create.
We also were excited because wethought, well, what if we would
get, I guess, lectures everyweek from the field also to
(33:08):
continue to?
So, yes, there's definitelyacademic rigor, don't.
Don't.
Don't kid yourself if anybodythinks, oh well, it's just a
bunch of videos and things.
No, no, no.
I mean this is a master'sdegree level program, but we
added all of these guestlectures.
I think we have over 80throughout the program that come
in so you're learning aboutstrategy from one of the key
(33:31):
strategic thinkers.
I mean, it's the way we designedthe program and and frankly it
was I'm almost speechlessthinking about the George and
Reggie Hurslinger EducationInnovation Award.
We are so proud to earn that,not just because we thought it
(33:53):
was pretty innovative, but to bevalidated.
That someone else thought itwas was pretty amazing, and for
it to be part of Cami as well Iknow Jenny was.
She was beside herself when sheheard about it and she and I
have this energy level thatseems endless on days, but we
(34:13):
love this opportunity to partnerwith Boise State and it's it's
been a great journey.
And the students that we'regetting and the outcomes and
they are I mean we call it atransformative degree and they
are the health care transformersand I'll tell you what they are
ready to transform the industry.
So we're excited.
The first cohort graduates thisDecember actually next week so
(34:36):
it's it's been a great journeyso far.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well, I you know you talk about Jenny's passion.
It was one of the coolest callsI've ever made.
When I called her up tocongratulate her for winning the
award and tears just flowed andI think it was.
It's certainly a passionproject for her and she just was
was really happy to kind ofhear that this external
organization felt that she wasreally doing something pretty
(35:02):
cool.
Well, let me let me kind ofpivot and I know we're coming to
the end of our time right here.
And, todd, at the verybeginning you talked about
working in central supply at ahospital and one of the things
that I remember very early in mycareer when I was doing my
(35:23):
administrative residency wasgoing into the bowels and it
really literally was in thebowels of graduate hospital.
I forget the steps we had to godown in the elevators and
separate areas and this hugekind of cavernous place with
every supply ever within ahospital was in there.
It's an interesting part thatthat's where you began your
(35:47):
journey.
If you were to talk to astudent right now who really
wanted to make a difference inhealth care and you had to give
them some advice, what wouldthat be?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Take every opportunity that's presented to
you.
So if someone says, hey, wouldyou like to sit in on this
meeting, the answer is yes.
Even if you don't like meetings, and even if you don't know
anything about the subject, theanswer is yes.
When they ask for a volunteerto do something, don't be afraid
to volunteer, because that'show you're going to learn, even
if it's out of your comfort zone.
(36:26):
I just think those are tworeally important things, and the
third one I would say is bepatient, because we all are
motivated, excited and ready tochange the world.
But sometimes our desire tochange the world doesn't match
up with the opportunity tochange the world, and it's
(36:47):
really hard, when you'remotivated and excited, to be
patient.
In fact, it's really hard to bepatient.
That is one of the things thatis the most difficult for me,
because I'm an excitable, readyto do something to change the
world person.
Patience is difficult, but Ijust remind them to keep it in
the back of their mind becausegood things do come.
(37:09):
It may not come exactly thesame way, but I think that's the
most important thing.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
It may not come exactly whenyou want it to, but relish the
opportunities you have now,learn everything you can
volunteer, be patient andeventually I really do believe
that it does work out.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
And I've seen it too, so many times across
exceptional people in theircareers that that does occur.
Well, todd, this was a greatconversation and just appreciate
you coming on and being part ofour podcast.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
Thank you for your service toCami as a board chair.
(37:50):
I know that's a lot of work onyour part and I appreciate your
leadership and advice as well.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Thank you, Anthony.
Thank you for having me and wasjust so pleased to be asked.
So thank you so much foreverything you do for the
industry and certainly leadingCami.
Thanks, Todd.
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