September 6, 2024 • 31 mins
On this episode of "Master Your Healthcare Career," we sit down with Deborah Bowen, FACHE, CAE, an influential leader in the healthcare industry and president and CEO of the American College of Healthcare Executives (ACHE). Deborah shares her inspiring journey, from her academic roots in social work and psychology to navigating the complexities of healthcare systems and government relations. Discover how her strategic thinking and ability to influence key decision-makers have driven her success and shaped the future of ACHE over the years.
Deborah and Anthony delve into how volunteering, networking with a mindset of helping others, and building genuine relationships can accelerate your career and create lasting connections in the industry.
Building a lifelong healthcare network is essential, and this episode highlights the significance of joining professional organizations like ACHE. Deborah emphasizes the critical link between the healthcare marketplace, professional communities, and continuous learning. Gain insights into how partnerships and professional networks can enhance your career journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, melissa, thank you very much for that
introduction and, deborah,welcome to Master, your
Healthcare Career.
Appreciate you being on theshow today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's an honor, Anthony.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Deborah, you know, you and I have known each other
for a long time and I think youknow you've been at ACHE for 34
years, am I?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I don't think it's quite that long, but it's long,
it's long.
Probably 28 or 29.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I left for a little while, and then I came back, so
that might be where your mathmight be different than mine.
Okay, all right, you know, Ithink you know.
When we begin something likethis, it's always helpful to
give the folks who are listeningin a little background.
So could you tell us how yourcareer trajectory started and
how you wound up at ACHA?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, I'd be happy to .
First of all, I don't have atraditional MHA or any variation
around that.
I actually started out gettinga master's degree in social work
.
So I got a bachelor's degree inpsychology.
For a while I wanted to be aFrench teacher and while I was
(01:15):
in graduate school in Madison,wisconsin, at the University of
Wisconsin, they had programswhere you could get experiences,
which are always good, as youknow internships, postgraduate
fellowships but I was counselingheroinics and alcoholics and
that's a very difficult thing todo.
Even those of us who wantedthought we wanted to be social
(01:39):
workers and, of course, the rateof recidivism is very high,
which means that they don't getwell.
So I started learning moreabout systems, thinking about
how can you change systems tohelp people, because even though
you cure a physical ailment andyou put people back in the
(02:01):
systems that actually got themthere in the first place, it
doesn't work for them right.
So I got into systems thinking.
I got into that.
I started meeting one of myprofessors who worked at the
Department of Health and SocialServices.
When I graduated I went to workthere.
Then I met a doctor who wasvery influential in my career.
(02:23):
His name was Daryl Trefford.
He worked in Fond du Lac, hewas a psychiatrist and he
happened to be president of theMedical Society in Wisconsin.
And from there I got a taste ofwhat the association world was
like.
So that's a state medicalsociety for physicians.
And so from there I started outas many different things
(02:49):
government relations, fieldrelations I ran the cafeteria
for a while.
That was fun.
And then I decided I wanted tomove to Chicago because this is
where my family is, this iswhere home is for me.
And from there I met Tom Dolan.
Tom had just become presidentof ACHE and he was interested in
(03:10):
starting a government relationsprogram because in those days
it was one of the many eras ofhealth reform.
Cost quality and access werealways an issue.
So he wanted to start agovernment relations program and
I wrote the original plan thatactually is still in existence
today although we do update it,anthony, I'd like for you to
(03:32):
know.
And from there I went to beingan HR person.
From there I went and got myMBA.
Then I left and I went to workfor the Society of Actuaries,
another association all based onrisk.
Then I got recruited back as aCOO and I was COO for 10 years
(03:53):
and now I've been CEO for 11years.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Wow, it's really interesting how the career
journey just kind of goes, andsome of it is the doors are open
in other areas and some of itis where do your interests lie
and how do you kind of move intothose the?
How do you take advantage ofthose opportunities?
You?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
know, I always think it's important to think of.
I always never, I never reallywanted to be a ceo.
I never thought, oh I'm, youknow, that's what I'm gonna do.
Uh, I, what I thought about washow can I have a positive
influence in the world, how canI make a difference?
That's what drew me to socialwork.
Yeah, that's what drew me tothe whole systems way of
(04:36):
thinking.
That's what drew me to my otherroles.
That's what drew me to ACHE,and I've always been interested
in influencing decision makers,because I think if you can
influence decision makers, youcan create a ripple effect that
can be very, very powerful.
So, I'm fortunate to have thejob I do.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, that influencing the decision makers
is now really what you do at theAmerican College of Healthcare
Executives, so that's it'sinteresting that you talked
about that.
I know a lot of people who arelistening to this do know about
the American College ofHealthcare Executives and what
it does, but could you tell,give a little bit of the origin
(05:16):
story about how ACHE started andyou know the?
To me being a lifelong memberof the, to me being a lifelong
member of the American College,of.
(05:36):
Healthcare Executives.
The changes that have occurredover the past 15, 20 years has
been phenomenal, certainlybringing more people in.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, anyway, I'll let you tell the story, debra.
Yeah, well, it probably seemslike ancient history to a lot of
your listeners and, just forclarifying, I was not around in
1933 when this was founded, butreally it came about when you
(06:02):
think about what was going on.
In were really on the outskirtsof towns because they were
really called sanitariums,because they didn't really know
how to manage illness.
The people who were runningthose institutions were
physicians and they were calledsupervisors of things like the
(06:28):
Flexner Report, which talkedabout the standardization of
medical education and how therewere gaps and how we needed to
fix that.
So you had a group of, I think,visionaries really, who were
starting to think about thecomplexity of healthcare and
enter in, if you will, insurancecoverage.
You know Blue Cross, blueShield, started, I think, in
1929.
(06:49):
You have, after the war you hadinsurance coverage.
So all of a sudden you have thisidea that more and more people
could get healthcare and, as aresult, the complexity of where
and how healthcare was deliveredwas getting very prevalent.
So this notion aboutprofessionalizing how we use our
(07:10):
resources, what goes on insidethe walls of a hospital, became
very front and center to peoplelike Arthur Bachmeier and some
of the founders of ACHE, andtheir whole journey and their
whole passion was abouteducational excellence and I
think educational excellence youknow they believed, and I think
(07:33):
Cami believes this and Ibelieve this I'm going to guess
you believe it is that educationis a means to success and
excellence and and and thatmeans education in a lot of
different varieties.
But again, this is a business.
You have to know the operations, but it's also a business with
(07:55):
a calling business and thebusiness side of the business.
So that commitment to education, that commitment of providing
the best, the commitment tounderstand, what does the body
of knowledge look like?
In healthcare We've beencredentialing executives for 80
(08:15):
years, so we know a little bitabout leadership.
And the other thing that'sinteresting is how much more
widespread healthcare has become.
In 1934, there were 227 members.
Today, in 2024, we have 49,000.
And 76 chapters.
So when you think about all thedifferent settings and that
(08:39):
care is no longer delivered in ahospital, right, it's delivered
on your phone and in, you know,in all kinds of different
environments, I think it'sreally exciting for students to
really think about all theopportunities available to them
and I'd like to believe ACHEwill be their professional home.
Just like a lot of otherassociations, can play important
(09:00):
roles in helping people advancetheir careers.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And ACHE serves many different purposes within the
professional field.
I mean I think I'm a proudfellow of the American College
of Health and Health Executives.
In fact I'm a proud I've gotone little star on my fellow
thing, which relates to theamount of commitment that I've
done to the field.
Very proud of that too, deborah, I really want to say I'm also
(09:26):
in admiration of the people whohave the two stars and the three
stars and their level ofcommitment to it.
So one of them is thecredentialing part.
You know you're also talkingabout research.
I think the educationalcomponents that ACHE does myself
, you know, being able toparticipate in them have really
kind of raised your capabilitiesand yeah, yeah, you know the
(09:52):
other thing that that that isanother dimension of us is
career services.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, well, which which is something that probably
is near and dear, uh, to youraudiences as well uh, and, and
I'd like to say, you know, ach,you know, opens doors.
You still have to do the work,but, yeah, yeah, we can provide
for opportunities for people tolearn and grow and be more
(10:16):
intentional, perhaps, abouttheir career growth and how that
looks like.
We have mentoring programs, wehave other types of networking
programs, so all of those things, I think, contribute to the
fact that, yeah, we represent awide variety of early men and
senior careerists, and I thinkthat that richness in our
(10:40):
community, across disciplines,across age groups, really adds
to the quality of theexperiences you can get and the
opportunity to learn.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I'm going to add one part to that, because you talked
about age groups and chaptersand stuff.
But ACHE is truly internationaland you yourself have a
leadership role at theInternational Hospital
Federation.
I do yeah.
So talk about that growth andyou talk about 220 some people
(11:11):
to start out with with theamerican college and you know
that the international part isinteresting yeah, I always say,
you know, ach is small butmighty.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, we, we're not a large organization, but the way
we influence sort of the worldis through the ecosystems, our
higher education networks,cammyi, other organizations, and
IHF is one of thoseorganizations the International
Hospital Federation so there areprobably 60 different countries
(11:42):
represented in the ranks of theInternational Hospital
Federation, from every continentacross the globe.
Ihf does a number of importantthings.
One thing that they're verycommitted to right now is
sustainability, because youprobably many of your listeners
know, healthcare is the eighthlargest contributor to issues in
(12:07):
the environment, and soobviously that's an important
arena and a growing arena ofimportance.
So they have a wholesustainability effort that's
going on, which I think isreally important.
But they also do education.
And, most of all, I think thething that's interesting about
IHF is they're interested in thesame things the rest of us are
(12:30):
Quality access, patient care,how to advance, how to use AI,
how do we leverage thesepowerful tools?
And if COVID taught us anything, I think it taught us that we
work in a borderless environment.
Right, I mean, there are.
Yes, we may work domestically,but we are part of a global
(12:52):
community that cares deeplyabout healthcare, cares deeply
about moving things forward.
The other thing that I'mpersonally particularly excited
about I just got off my tenureas president.
I'm now the immediate pastpresident of IHF, but when I was
president, we started the Womenin Leadership Forum and there
(13:16):
are thousands of women aroundthe world who are getting
involved in that.
So this notion about just notonly getting yourself into a
network and an environment whereyou're learning from other
people and being open to thatvery much plays out at IHF as
well.
So thanks for asking me aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
No, you know, Deborah , I've looked on admiration with
what you've done with theInternational Hospital
Federation and I think your roleand the American College of
Healthcare Executives role inIHF has been significant and I
think has been a really goodforce in there for them.
So just want to kind of sharethat with you.
(14:00):
You mentioned so the role ofwomen and so you've been at ACHE
for, like I said, you know 30some years and with CAMI it's
really kind of interesting whenyou look at who the students
were, the gender of our students, and how it's kind of changed
over time.
Talk about that, because whenyou started at ACHE, healthcare
(14:23):
leadership was definitely a maledominant yeah totally it was.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
you know it's.
It's funny because and I hope Idon't sound like a dinosaur to
those listening here but youknow, when I was first, so, even
though I was in a very maleenvironment and people would say
(14:56):
things, you know, will you takenotes, will you do this, will
you do that?
You know, but I didn't really,I didn't really focus on it
because I didn't think it wouldreally be helpful.
You know, to focus on it.
But when I became president ofACHE, I totally underestimated
(15:17):
what it would be like for otherwomen to know that I was in this
role, because I was the firstwoman of seven presidents at
ACHE and I totallyunderestimated what that meant
to women and what it mightsignify.
So I've been more in touch withthat, which is probably in part
(15:39):
why I started the InternationalHospital Federation Women in
Leadership.
And of course now it's soimportant for women not only to
have a seat at the table but avoice at the table.
And you know we almost half ofour new members, anthony are
women.
You know I believe this will bea female dominated profession
(15:59):
in the future and I just thinkyou know, sometimes those of us
who are women I mean peoplestruggle with all kinds of
different things.
Right, and the first, I think,secret of success for anybody,
women included, is to just knowyourself and try and figure out
(16:20):
you know where you might bevulnerable, what you need to
develop, and not be afraid ofthat and lean into it.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You know, deborah, when you were talking about that
, it reminded me of the letter Iwrote to my daughter when she
was born and my wish for her wasbe a great leader, not just a
great female leader, but a greatleader.
And when you said that, itreminded me of that part with
there, that you aspired to be agreat leader and then you, you
(16:53):
became one, but then you kind ofleveraged, you know, your uh,
your position in a lot ofdifferent ways to inspire other
people too.
So I think that's really uh, um, it's, it's uh heartwarming to
kind of hear.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Well, that's a beautiful thing you.
You gave to your daughter too.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Thank you.
So I'm, I'm a student.
Let's, let's pretend I'm astudent out there and I'm going.
Oh geez, you know, americancollege does sound interesting,
let me, let me join it.
Um, so I'm brand new.
What do I do Like?
So you know?
Um, certainly, you know, I fillout the application and I come
in, but what's my immediatefirst steps to success?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, I think the secret to ACHE.
It's sort of like when you join, you know, a fitness club, you
can have the digital card orwhatever you have, but if you
don't go it really doesn't doyou much good right.
Yeah.
So I always tell people you gotto get active and the best
(17:56):
place to do that for anybody isat a chapter.
We have 76 chapters all aroundthe country, including Canada,
and no matter where you are, youshould be able to take
advantage of something withchapters.
And the best thing is you knowyou don't have to sign up for.
You know long term commitment.
(18:16):
But you know sign up forsomething, whether it's
volunteering at an event,getting on a committee,
activating at that level,engaging with your local network
, seeing what's available,raising your hand and getting
(18:40):
meeting people and getting thatexperience, and I think the
momentum for people reallybuilds from that.
I mean you can go to Congresstoo, our Congress on healthcare
leadership, which happens everyMarch, and we have student
opportunities there.
You can certainly do that aswell, but that's once a year.
(19:01):
So really getting involved atthe local level because chapters
are doing things all year round, and getting to know where your
program is in the chapter mix,what the chapters are doing,
that's a great place to start.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know I think back to my early career and yes, I
mean that's.
You know it was going to thechapter and one of my little
secrets that I tell students outthere is, your first area to
volunteer is go to the chapterpresident and say I'd like to,
I'd like to be at the signuptable when people register to
(19:35):
bring them in, because that'syour opportunity to meet
everybody as you come in and noone wants to do that role, but
it's actually the best role toget as a new, as a new member.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, because me, I mean, this is a people business.
It still is, and relationshipsdo matter and people matter.
And you know, I have heardcountless stories about ACHE and
how they have helped peoplegrow their careers, advance
(20:08):
their careers, and not so muchin a.
I mean there are formal ways wedo that, but mostly in a
spontaneous way, right, theperson you happen to sit next to
at lunch, the person you happento be in the elevator with, the
person you happen to run intoin a hallway, or you know
there's countless kinds ofserendipitous types of meetings
(20:32):
that allow for introductions andthat's kind of the way it is.
It's just being human in theworld, right?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I agree, and you know the secret to there is don't go
into a chapter meeting going.
How can I don't, how does thisbenefit me?
Go into the meeting thinkinghow can I help other people
succeed and I think, if youswitch that mindset and think
about how can I help others, youwill be seen as an important
(21:00):
resource and people will wantyou yeah and you don't.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
You don't ask for something right away, right you?
Just, it's not a transaction,it's a relationship you're
building, so I think,cultivating that, being a good
listener, you know, trying tounderstand what questions are
top of mind that you may want toask of somebody you know.
(21:25):
How are you using AI?
What keeps you up at night?
You know?
I mean, you can ask things, youknow, regardless of your stage
and careers.
I ask people all the time.
You know about things, and and,and people love to talk about
what they're doing, um, and, andwhat their successes are, and
and also their failures, youknow.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting, debra, causeyou know, I can remember it of
course feels very awkward whenyou're, when you're starting out
your career, to find someonewho's a little seems a little
bit older, a little bit wiserand who's standing there and to
go up and introduce yourself.
But I still do that.
I still look around for peoplewho aren't talking to anyone and
(22:09):
go up and introduce myself andbegin a conversation and it's
just interesting to kind of seewhere those lead oh yeah, it's
happening to me all the time too.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I mean, you know, that's that's the funny thing
about leadership, is I don'tknow that you really ever arrive
.
You know, you're constantlylearning and I'm always.
I was excited to meet one ofour speakers last year was
Fareed Zakaria, and I was reallyexcited to meet him.
(22:38):
Yeah, so I mean, there's alwayssomebody that is interesting to
meet, that you can learn from,that you may want to know a
little something about.
I mean, I think that's alwaysthere's, there's always
something to gain from that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
You know, I remember of course we were.
I saw him at the, the largesession, the the plenary session
, but then I actually got toparticipate in the smaller
session that ACH had for for forexecutives, and he was just so
gracious, very warm.
I remember watching peoplewanting to go up and get their
(23:15):
picture with him.
And he just, you know, justvery nicely kind of worked with
the crowd.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Very nice, humble.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Humble.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I told him about my Women in Leadership Forum that I
was doing globally.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
And he shared with me .
He said it may not be obviousto viewers, but I work very hard
at getting a woman on everysingle one of my shows.
Wow, which wasn't reallysomething that was top of mind
for me, but I thought it wasnice of him to share it with me
and it was interesting.
Now I'm sort of watching.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let me talk about anotherthing with ACHE.
And then I want to do that andthen go into why did ACHE do
things with Cami.
But the third part.
So you talked about the.
You talked about ACHE Congress,which is an amazing event.
I think I've been to everyCongress over the past 15 years.
(24:12):
It's not even longer, but justjust an amazing event.
You talked about the chaptersand their educational sessions,
and then Deborah, there issomething else that ACHA has
that, to me, is one of the mostamazing things to ever
participate in, and it's theclusters.
And my favorite cluster and youknow I think you probably
(24:34):
attended this cluster it'salmost every executive out.
There is the techniques andprocess of negotiation.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Oh, I know, Negotiation, yeah, everybody
needs to know it.
And yeah, and it's it'sexperience-based too, which I
think people like you knowyou're actively doing it.
Yeah, so well, we probablyaren't familiar what a cluster
is, because it's not, it's not aheadache, it's not a migraine.
Um, it's a series of seminars,you know, that come together and
(25:03):
because they're a cluster ofseminars, we call them clusters
and they happen all around theworld, all around the country,
sometimes actually in otherplaces too.
We're actually having one ofour largest clusters in Boston
next week.
So, but yeah, I mean, any kindof networking opportunity is a
(25:24):
good opportunity.
Clusters aren't really designedfor students, but that doesn't
mean that you can't gain.
But the beauty of our educationis you can get it in a webinar,
you can get it online on demand, you can get it at a chapter,
you can also take, you know, asix hour seminar, a 12 hour
(25:46):
seminar.
So you know there's a varietyof different formats.
You know, if you only get to goto one thing, I think Congress
is probably the best display ofwhat ACHE is about, because you
also have your alumni groupsmeeting there.
You have, you know, the federalsector meets there, which is a
(26:06):
component of our industry, right, and a very important one.
So that's the military branchesand the VA.
So I mean, it's where all therichness is on display.
You know, and we have speakersthere that you don't usually get
to hear everywhere the WrightLasseters of the world, greg
Adams of the world and manyother thought leaders.
(26:28):
So, yeah, I do think thatthat's the education and just
the components of that.
We also do resume review, asyou know, lots of different
components to that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, so ACHE has this wonderful education arm,
credentialing arm, research arm,publications arm.
You know we didn't even talkabout the publications part,
which is, you know, I readHealthcare Executive cover to
cover every month that it comesout.
It's just an amazing magazineand gives you a background.
But there's Frontiers, there'sthe Journal of Healthcare
Management.
What am I missing?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Deborah, we actually do 23 different newsletters, one
for students.
We also help chapters withtheir newsletters, but we do
them for almost every segmentstudents, early careers,
physicians all kinds ofdifferent groups um, physicians,
(27:29):
all kinds of different groups,uh, so we do a lot of
newsletters.
Ceos also yeah, we havespecialized newsletters for for
those individuals and we doblogs and we have a linkedin uh
group.
That is phenomenal.
Uh it, it will probably, by theend of the year, be close to
200,000 people.
Wow, yeah, and I always say youknow, membership is really
(27:49):
important and 49,000 members issomething I think that we all
feel very proud of.
It's a historic high.
At the same time, there's a lotof people engaging with us
across the board and I think theLinkedIn site is a very good
example of that.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, All right, so let's talk about CAMI and ACHE.
Okay, you know ACHE is acorporate the Association of
University Programs and HealthAdministration in the American
(28:27):
Society for Public Health thatgot together and said hey, we
want to make sure that thestudents graduating from the
great programs in the US and inCanada are well-prepared to lead
, and ACHE really took aleadership role in doing that.
And my question to you when wewere talking about this podcast
before was why, why did ACHEreally kind of get involved in
(28:53):
CAMI and still stays stronglyinvolved with CAMI?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Well, first of all, I think education and practice
are intricately locked.
You know, and always have been,Many of the presidents of ACHE
and maybe this has something todo with the fact that it's
called the American College ofHealthcare Executive were
(29:17):
academics.
So there's always been a strongcommitment throughout time for
excellence in education, andlargely as a means to an end.
I mean, education is not theend in and of itself, but it's
what it stands for, it's thequality of what you learn, it's
(29:38):
the standards that form a goodexperience, it's the values that
you stand for as an individual.
So I think this marriage ofacademia and practice, along
with the growing complexity ofhealthcare, was really sort of
the soil, if you will, to plantthe seed for for CAMI, and this
(30:03):
notion that standardization wascoming was seen as an effective
means to an end, Right.
So so you saw a lot ofsimilarities between the joint
commission evolving and theirstandards and CAMI evolving
their standards, et cetera.
But it's always been about thiscommitment to really provide
(30:25):
the best so people could, youknow, live up to their highest
potential.
And I think that, like I said,I think that connection between
the healthcare marketplace, youknow, namely hospitals, health
systems, other types oforganizations the professional
communities organizations, theprofessional communities, HFMA,
(30:48):
ACHE, others like that and theeducational faculty and programs
is really an important one,because when you graduate,
that's only the beginning ofyour leadership journey, it's
not the end.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
It's so true, it really is a process of lifelong
learning.
But one of the things youtalked about with ACHE, with me
when we talked about thatfounding back in 1968, neither
you nor I were in ourorganizations when that happened
but you talked about how theleadership of ACHE really kind
of came from academia, orseveral of the leaders of the
(31:21):
past leaders.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Our early roots were very much in academia.
Tom was an academic before hecame to the association.
So you know I'm a little bit ofa novel choice, I guess,
because I'm the first one whoreally didn't come from academia
per se.
But you know, I think I'm astrong believer in you know, one
(31:48):
of the things that we do asorganizations in this healthcare
ecosystem that we're allnavigating through is you have
to build a culture of ant.
You know the, the programs whoare going on the accreditation
journey, the programs who areinvolved in teaching students
all this great stuff that theyneed to learn and are hungry to
(32:12):
learn, hopefully, and themarketplace.
You know that combination ofthings is really important
because you know when peoplecome out of school they still
have a lot to learn.
So, and hopefully, the healthcare marketplace, the
(32:34):
professional societies who areinvolved in the in CAMI, help
make CAMI relevant and stayrelevant in CAMI, help make CAMI
relevant and stay relevant.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And that's really important because things are
moving very quickly in today'senvironment and Debra, you know,
I think one of the parts aroundthat is you know, you're not
just talking the talk here, Imean you, for you and I both
served on the board at a timeprior to uh, prior to my role as
the, the ceo, and then you were, you were board chair yes, I
(33:08):
was.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, it's true.
So I'm, I'm a big believer in,in, you know this, this culture
of, and you know things arebetter with each other.
You know the the bettertogether, collaborative, that
we're involved with, with naz,nazi and Nali and others.
I mean it's important and youknow, too often you know it has
(33:34):
to be sort of this or that.
You know, and I'm a strongbeliever that a lot of the
success of our community and ourprofession is because of this
philosophy of, and we'restronger together for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Absolutely, and Cami is definitely stronger with our
partnership with ACHE and I justreally want to thank you for
that and your long-termcommitment to our organization.
As we kind of go out and I know, we gave a lot of different
levels of tips and advice tostudents.
One final bit of advice forsomeone who's an early careerist
(34:09):
, maybe a recent graduate ormaybe a soon to go into a
graduate, what would be your onekey nugget of advice for them?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, you know, I think there's a couple of things
really no-transcript.
(34:52):
So I would say gettingconnected is really important
and just taking care of others,just as you're taking care of
yourself, take care of others.
I think greatness and kindnessgo hand in hand and I and and
you know you will you will neverregret, you know, being being
(35:13):
kind to another person and andyou know, getting involved in a
chapter.
Really you know, if you donothing else, you need to start
getting involved.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I agree, and I would add to that and you didn't say
it my bit of advice would bejoin ACHE.
You'll never regret it.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I don't want to be a self-promoter too much, although
everybody will be getting adigital brochure after this
podcast.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
No, I'm kidding.
Absolutely Well, Deborah, thankyou very much for your time
today and thank you for yourongoing support of Cami and the
future of health care.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Anthony, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for all you do.
I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Thanks, Deborah.
Well, melissa, thank you very much for that
introduction and, deborah,welcome to Master, your
Healthcare Career.
Appreciate you being on theshow today.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's an honor, Anthony.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Deborah, you know, you and I have known each other
for a long time and I think youknow you've been at ACHE for 34
years, am I?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I don't think it's quite that long, but it's long,
it's long.
Probably 28 or 29.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I left for a little while, and then I came back, so
that might be where your mathmight be different than mine.
Okay, all right, you know, Ithink you know.
When we begin something likethis, it's always helpful to
give the folks who are listeningin a little background.
So could you tell us how yourcareer trajectory started and
how you wound up at ACHA?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, I'd be happy to .
First of all, I don't have atraditional MHA or any variation
around that.
I actually started out gettinga master's degree in social work
.
So I got a bachelor's degree inpsychology.
For a while I wanted to be aFrench teacher and while I was
(01:15):
in graduate school in Madison,wisconsin, at the University of
Wisconsin, they had programswhere you could get experiences,
which are always good, as youknow internships, postgraduate
fellowships but I was counselingheroinics and alcoholics and
that's a very difficult thing todo.
Even those of us who wantedthought we wanted to be social
(01:39):
workers and, of course, the rateof recidivism is very high,
which means that they don't getwell.
So I started learning moreabout systems, thinking about
how can you change systems tohelp people, because even though
you cure a physical ailment andyou put people back in the
(02:01):
systems that actually got themthere in the first place, it
doesn't work for them right.
So I got into systems thinking.
I got into that.
I started meeting one of myprofessors who worked at the
Department of Health and SocialServices.
When I graduated I went to workthere.
Then I met a doctor who wasvery influential in my career.
(02:23):
His name was Daryl Trefford.
He worked in Fond du Lac, hewas a psychiatrist and he
happened to be president of theMedical Society in Wisconsin.
And from there I got a taste ofwhat the association world was
like.
So that's a state medicalsociety for physicians.
And so from there I started outas many different things
(02:49):
government relations, fieldrelations I ran the cafeteria
for a while.
That was fun.
And then I decided I wanted tomove to Chicago because this is
where my family is, this iswhere home is for me.
And from there I met Tom Dolan.
Tom had just become presidentof ACHE and he was interested in
(03:10):
starting a government relationsprogram because in those days
it was one of the many eras ofhealth reform.
Cost quality and access werealways an issue.
So he wanted to start agovernment relations program and
I wrote the original plan thatactually is still in existence
today although we do update it,anthony, I'd like for you to
(03:32):
know.
And from there I went to beingan HR person.
From there I went and got myMBA.
Then I left and I went to workfor the Society of Actuaries,
another association all based onrisk.
Then I got recruited back as aCOO and I was COO for 10 years
(03:53):
and now I've been CEO for 11years.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Wow, it's really interesting how the career
journey just kind of goes, andsome of it is the doors are open
in other areas and some of itis where do your interests lie
and how do you kind of move intothose the?
How do you take advantage ofthose opportunities?
You?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
know, I always think it's important to think of.
I always never, I never reallywanted to be a ceo.
I never thought, oh I'm, youknow, that's what I'm gonna do.
Uh, I, what I thought about washow can I have a positive
influence in the world, how canI make a difference?
That's what drew me to socialwork.
Yeah, that's what drew me tothe whole systems way of
(04:36):
thinking.
That's what drew me to my otherroles.
That's what drew me to ACHE,and I've always been interested
in influencing decision makers,because I think if you can
influence decision makers, youcan create a ripple effect that
can be very, very powerful.
So, I'm fortunate to have thejob I do.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, that influencing the decision makers
is now really what you do at theAmerican College of Healthcare
Executives, so that's it'sinteresting that you talked
about that.
I know a lot of people who arelistening to this do know about
the American College ofHealthcare Executives and what
it does, but could you tell,give a little bit of the origin
(05:16):
story about how ACHE started andyou know the?
To me being a lifelong memberof the, to me being a lifelong
member of the American College,of.
(05:36):
Healthcare Executives.
The changes that have occurredover the past 15, 20 years has
been phenomenal, certainlybringing more people in.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, anyway, I'll let you tell the story, debra.
Yeah, well, it probably seemslike ancient history to a lot of
your listeners and, just forclarifying, I was not around in
1933 when this was founded, butreally it came about when you
(06:02):
think about what was going on.
In were really on the outskirtsof towns because they were
really called sanitariums,because they didn't really know
how to manage illness.
The people who were runningthose institutions were
physicians and they were calledsupervisors of things like the
(06:28):
Flexner Report, which talkedabout the standardization of
medical education and how therewere gaps and how we needed to
fix that.
So you had a group of, I think,visionaries really, who were
starting to think about thecomplexity of healthcare and
enter in, if you will, insurancecoverage.
You know Blue Cross, blueShield, started, I think, in
1929.
(06:49):
You have, after the war you hadinsurance coverage.
So all of a sudden you have thisidea that more and more people
could get healthcare and, as aresult, the complexity of where
and how healthcare was deliveredwas getting very prevalent.
So this notion aboutprofessionalizing how we use our
(07:10):
resources, what goes on insidethe walls of a hospital, became
very front and center to peoplelike Arthur Bachmeier and some
of the founders of ACHE, andtheir whole journey and their
whole passion was abouteducational excellence and I
think educational excellence youknow they believed, and I think
(07:33):
Cami believes this and Ibelieve this I'm going to guess
you believe it is that educationis a means to success and
excellence and and and thatmeans education in a lot of
different varieties.
But again, this is a business.
You have to know the operations, but it's also a business with
(07:55):
a calling business and thebusiness side of the business.
So that commitment to education, that commitment of providing
the best, the commitment tounderstand, what does the body
of knowledge look like?
In healthcare We've beencredentialing executives for 80
(08:15):
years, so we know a little bitabout leadership.
And the other thing that'sinteresting is how much more
widespread healthcare has become.
In 1934, there were 227 members.
Today, in 2024, we have 49,000.
And 76 chapters.
So when you think about all thedifferent settings and that
(08:39):
care is no longer delivered in ahospital, right, it's delivered
on your phone and in, you know,in all kinds of different
environments, I think it'sreally exciting for students to
really think about all theopportunities available to them
and I'd like to believe ACHEwill be their professional home.
Just like a lot of otherassociations, can play important
(09:00):
roles in helping people advancetheir careers.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
And ACHE serves many different purposes within the
professional field.
I mean I think I'm a proudfellow of the American College
of Health and Health Executives.
In fact I'm a proud I've gotone little star on my fellow
thing, which relates to theamount of commitment that I've
done to the field.
Very proud of that too, deborah, I really want to say I'm also
(09:26):
in admiration of the people whohave the two stars and the three
stars and their level ofcommitment to it.
So one of them is thecredentialing part.
You know you're also talkingabout research.
I think the educationalcomponents that ACHE does myself
, you know, being able toparticipate in them have really
kind of raised your capabilitiesand yeah, yeah, you know the
(09:52):
other thing that that that isanother dimension of us is
career services.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, well, which which is something that probably
is near and dear, uh, to youraudiences as well uh, and, and
I'd like to say, you know, ach,you know, opens doors.
You still have to do the work,but, yeah, yeah, we can provide
for opportunities for people tolearn and grow and be more
(10:16):
intentional, perhaps, abouttheir career growth and how that
looks like.
We have mentoring programs, wehave other types of networking
programs, so all of those things, I think, contribute to the
fact that, yeah, we represent awide variety of early men and
senior careerists, and I thinkthat that richness in our
(10:40):
community, across disciplines,across age groups, really adds
to the quality of theexperiences you can get and the
opportunity to learn.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I'm going to add one part to that, because you talked
about age groups and chaptersand stuff.
But ACHE is truly internationaland you yourself have a
leadership role at theInternational Hospital
Federation.
I do yeah.
So talk about that growth andyou talk about 220 some people
(11:11):
to start out with with theamerican college and you know
that the international part isinteresting yeah, I always say,
you know, ach is small butmighty.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, we, we're not a large organization, but the way
we influence sort of the worldis through the ecosystems, our
higher education networks,cammyi, other organizations, and
IHF is one of thoseorganizations the International
Hospital Federation so there areprobably 60 different countries
(11:42):
represented in the ranks of theInternational Hospital
Federation, from every continentacross the globe.
Ihf does a number of importantthings.
One thing that they're verycommitted to right now is
sustainability, because youprobably many of your listeners
know, healthcare is the eighthlargest contributor to issues in
(12:07):
the environment, and soobviously that's an important
arena and a growing arena ofimportance.
So they have a wholesustainability effort that's
going on, which I think isreally important.
But they also do education.
And, most of all, I think thething that's interesting about
IHF is they're interested in thesame things the rest of us are
(12:30):
Quality access, patient care,how to advance, how to use AI,
how do we leverage thesepowerful tools?
And if COVID taught us anything, I think it taught us that we
work in a borderless environment.
Right, I mean, there are.
Yes, we may work domestically,but we are part of a global
(12:52):
community that cares deeplyabout healthcare, cares deeply
about moving things forward.
The other thing that I'mpersonally particularly excited
about I just got off my tenureas president.
I'm now the immediate pastpresident of IHF, but when I was
president, we started the Womenin Leadership Forum and there
(13:16):
are thousands of women aroundthe world who are getting
involved in that.
So this notion about just notonly getting yourself into a
network and an environment whereyou're learning from other
people and being open to thatvery much plays out at IHF as
well.
So thanks for asking me aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
No, you know, Deborah , I've looked on admiration with
what you've done with theInternational Hospital
Federation and I think your roleand the American College of
Healthcare Executives role inIHF has been significant and I
think has been a really goodforce in there for them.
So just want to kind of sharethat with you.
(14:00):
You mentioned so the role ofwomen and so you've been at ACHE
for, like I said, you know 30some years and with CAMI it's
really kind of interesting whenyou look at who the students
were, the gender of our students, and how it's kind of changed
over time.
Talk about that, because whenyou started at ACHE, healthcare
(14:23):
leadership was definitely a maledominant yeah totally it was.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
you know it's.
It's funny because and I hope Idon't sound like a dinosaur to
those listening here but youknow, when I was first, so, even
though I was in a very maleenvironment and people would say
(14:56):
things, you know, will you takenotes, will you do this, will
you do that?
You know, but I didn't really,I didn't really focus on it
because I didn't think it wouldreally be helpful.
You know, to focus on it.
But when I became president ofACHE, I totally underestimated
(15:17):
what it would be like for otherwomen to know that I was in this
role, because I was the firstwoman of seven presidents at
ACHE and I totallyunderestimated what that meant
to women and what it mightsignify.
So I've been more in touch withthat, which is probably in part
(15:39):
why I started the InternationalHospital Federation Women in
Leadership.
And of course now it's soimportant for women not only to
have a seat at the table but avoice at the table.
And you know we almost half ofour new members, anthony are
women.
You know I believe this will bea female dominated profession
(15:59):
in the future and I just thinkyou know, sometimes those of us
who are women I mean peoplestruggle with all kinds of
different things.
Right, and the first, I think,secret of success for anybody,
women included, is to just knowyourself and try and figure out
(16:20):
you know where you might bevulnerable, what you need to
develop, and not be afraid ofthat and lean into it.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You know, deborah, when you were talking about that
, it reminded me of the letter Iwrote to my daughter when she
was born and my wish for her wasbe a great leader, not just a
great female leader, but a greatleader.
And when you said that, itreminded me of that part with
there, that you aspired to be agreat leader and then you, you
(16:53):
became one, but then you kind ofleveraged, you know, your uh,
your position in a lot ofdifferent ways to inspire other
people too.
So I think that's really uh, um, it's, it's uh heartwarming to
kind of hear.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Well, that's a beautiful thing you.
You gave to your daughter too.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Thank you.
So I'm, I'm a student.
Let's, let's pretend I'm astudent out there and I'm going.
Oh geez, you know, americancollege does sound interesting,
let me, let me join it.
Um, so I'm brand new.
What do I do Like?
So you know?
Um, certainly, you know, I fillout the application and I come
in, but what's my immediatefirst steps to success?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, I think the secret to ACHE.
It's sort of like when you join, you know, a fitness club, you
can have the digital card orwhatever you have, but if you
don't go it really doesn't doyou much good right.
Yeah.
So I always tell people you gotto get active and the best
(17:56):
place to do that for anybody isat a chapter.
We have 76 chapters all aroundthe country, including Canada,
and no matter where you are, youshould be able to take
advantage of something withchapters.
And the best thing is you knowyou don't have to sign up for.
You know long term commitment.
(18:16):
But you know sign up forsomething, whether it's
volunteering at an event,getting on a committee,
activating at that level,engaging with your local network
, seeing what's available,raising your hand and getting
(18:40):
meeting people and getting thatexperience, and I think the
momentum for people reallybuilds from that.
I mean you can go to Congresstoo, our Congress on healthcare
leadership, which happens everyMarch, and we have student
opportunities there.
You can certainly do that aswell, but that's once a year.
(19:01):
So really getting involved atthe local level because chapters
are doing things all year round, and getting to know where your
program is in the chapter mix,what the chapters are doing,
that's a great place to start.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know I think back to my early career and yes, I
mean that's.
You know it was going to thechapter and one of my little
secrets that I tell students outthere is, your first area to
volunteer is go to the chapterpresident and say I'd like to,
I'd like to be at the signuptable when people register to
(19:35):
bring them in, because that'syour opportunity to meet
everybody as you come in and noone wants to do that role, but
it's actually the best role toget as a new, as a new member.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, because me, I mean, this is a people business.
It still is, and relationshipsdo matter and people matter.
And you know, I have heardcountless stories about ACHE and
how they have helped peoplegrow their careers, advance
(20:08):
their careers, and not so muchin a.
I mean there are formal ways wedo that, but mostly in a
spontaneous way, right, theperson you happen to sit next to
at lunch, the person you happento be in the elevator with, the
person you happen to run intoin a hallway, or you know
there's countless kinds ofserendipitous types of meetings
(20:32):
that allow for introductions andthat's kind of the way it is.
It's just being human in theworld, right?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I agree, and you know the secret to there is don't go
into a chapter meeting going.
How can I don't, how does thisbenefit me?
Go into the meeting thinkinghow can I help other people
succeed and I think, if youswitch that mindset and think
about how can I help others, youwill be seen as an important
(21:00):
resource and people will wantyou yeah and you don't.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
You don't ask for something right away, right you?
Just, it's not a transaction,it's a relationship you're
building, so I think,cultivating that, being a good
listener, you know, trying tounderstand what questions are
top of mind that you may want toask of somebody you know.
(21:25):
How are you using AI?
What keeps you up at night?
You know?
I mean, you can ask things, youknow, regardless of your stage
and careers.
I ask people all the time.
You know about things, and and,and people love to talk about
what they're doing, um, and, andwhat their successes are, and
and also their failures, youknow.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting, debra, causeyou know, I can remember it of
course feels very awkward whenyou're, when you're starting out
your career, to find someonewho's a little seems a little
bit older, a little bit wiserand who's standing there and to
go up and introduce yourself.
But I still do that.
I still look around for peoplewho aren't talking to anyone and
(22:09):
go up and introduce myself andbegin a conversation and it's
just interesting to kind of seewhere those lead oh yeah, it's
happening to me all the time too.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I mean, you know, that's that's the funny thing
about leadership, is I don'tknow that you really ever arrive
.
You know, you're constantlylearning and I'm always.
I was excited to meet one ofour speakers last year was
Fareed Zakaria, and I was reallyexcited to meet him.
(22:38):
Yeah, so I mean, there's alwayssomebody that is interesting to
meet, that you can learn from,that you may want to know a
little something about.
I mean, I think that's alwaysthere's, there's always
something to gain from that.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
You know, I remember of course we were.
I saw him at the, the largesession, the the plenary session
, but then I actually got toparticipate in the smaller
session that ACH had for for forexecutives, and he was just so
gracious, very warm.
I remember watching peoplewanting to go up and get their
(23:15):
picture with him.
And he just, you know, justvery nicely kind of worked with
the crowd.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Very nice, humble.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Humble.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I told him about my Women in Leadership Forum that I
was doing globally.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
And he shared with me .
He said it may not be obviousto viewers, but I work very hard
at getting a woman on everysingle one of my shows.
Wow, which wasn't reallysomething that was top of mind
for me, but I thought it wasnice of him to share it with me
and it was interesting.
Now I'm sort of watching.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, let me talk about anotherthing with ACHE.
And then I want to do that andthen go into why did ACHE do
things with Cami.
But the third part.
So you talked about the.
You talked about ACHE Congress,which is an amazing event.
I think I've been to everyCongress over the past 15 years.
(24:12):
It's not even longer, but justjust an amazing event.
You talked about the chaptersand their educational sessions,
and then Deborah, there issomething else that ACHA has
that, to me, is one of the mostamazing things to ever
participate in, and it's theclusters.
And my favorite cluster and youknow I think you probably
(24:34):
attended this cluster it'salmost every executive out.
There is the techniques andprocess of negotiation.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Oh, I know, Negotiation, yeah, everybody
needs to know it.
And yeah, and it's it'sexperience-based too, which I
think people like you knowyou're actively doing it.
Yeah, so well, we probablyaren't familiar what a cluster
is, because it's not, it's not aheadache, it's not a migraine.
Um, it's a series of seminars,you know, that come together and
(25:03):
because they're a cluster ofseminars, we call them clusters
and they happen all around theworld, all around the country,
sometimes actually in otherplaces too.
We're actually having one ofour largest clusters in Boston
next week.
So, but yeah, I mean, any kindof networking opportunity is a
(25:24):
good opportunity.
Clusters aren't really designedfor students, but that doesn't
mean that you can't gain.
But the beauty of our educationis you can get it in a webinar,
you can get it online on demand, you can get it at a chapter,
you can also take, you know, asix hour seminar, a 12 hour
(25:46):
seminar.
So you know there's a varietyof different formats.
You know, if you only get to goto one thing, I think Congress
is probably the best display ofwhat ACHE is about, because you
also have your alumni groupsmeeting there.
You have, you know, the federalsector meets there, which is a
(26:06):
component of our industry, right, and a very important one.
So that's the military branchesand the VA.
So I mean, it's where all therichness is on display.
You know, and we have speakersthere that you don't usually get
to hear everywhere the WrightLasseters of the world, greg
Adams of the world and manyother thought leaders.
(26:28):
So, yeah, I do think thatthat's the education and just
the components of that.
We also do resume review, asyou know, lots of different
components to that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah, so ACHE has this wonderful education arm,
credentialing arm, research arm,publications arm.
You know we didn't even talkabout the publications part,
which is, you know, I readHealthcare Executive cover to
cover every month that it comesout.
It's just an amazing magazineand gives you a background.
But there's Frontiers, there'sthe Journal of Healthcare
Management.
What am I missing?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Deborah, we actually do 23 different newsletters, one
for students.
We also help chapters withtheir newsletters, but we do
them for almost every segmentstudents, early careers,
physicians all kinds ofdifferent groups um, physicians,
(27:29):
all kinds of different groups,uh, so we do a lot of
newsletters.
Ceos also yeah, we havespecialized newsletters for for
those individuals and we doblogs and we have a linkedin uh
group.
That is phenomenal.
Uh it, it will probably, by theend of the year, be close to
200,000 people.
Wow, yeah, and I always say youknow, membership is really
(27:49):
important and 49,000 members issomething I think that we all
feel very proud of.
It's a historic high.
At the same time, there's a lotof people engaging with us
across the board and I think theLinkedIn site is a very good
example of that.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, All right, so let's talk about CAMI and ACHE.
Okay, you know ACHE is acorporate the Association of
University Programs and HealthAdministration in the American
(28:27):
Society for Public Health thatgot together and said hey, we
want to make sure that thestudents graduating from the
great programs in the US and inCanada are well-prepared to lead
, and ACHE really took aleadership role in doing that.
And my question to you when wewere talking about this podcast
before was why, why did ACHEreally kind of get involved in
(28:53):
CAMI and still stays stronglyinvolved with CAMI?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Well, first of all, I think education and practice
are intricately locked.
You know, and always have been,Many of the presidents of ACHE
and maybe this has something todo with the fact that it's
called the American College ofHealthcare Executive were
(29:17):
academics.
So there's always been a strongcommitment throughout time for
excellence in education, andlargely as a means to an end.
I mean, education is not theend in and of itself, but it's
what it stands for, it's thequality of what you learn, it's
(29:38):
the standards that form a goodexperience, it's the values that
you stand for as an individual.
So I think this marriage ofacademia and practice, along
with the growing complexity ofhealthcare, was really sort of
the soil, if you will, to plantthe seed for for CAMI, and this
(30:03):
notion that standardization wascoming was seen as an effective
means to an end, Right.
So so you saw a lot ofsimilarities between the joint
commission evolving and theirstandards and CAMI evolving
their standards, et cetera.
But it's always been about thiscommitment to really provide
(30:25):
the best so people could, youknow, live up to their highest
potential.
And I think that, like I said,I think that connection between
the healthcare marketplace, youknow, namely hospitals, health
systems, other types oforganizations the professional
communities organizations, theprofessional communities, HFMA,
(30:48):
ACHE, others like that and theeducational faculty and programs
is really an important one,because when you graduate,
that's only the beginning ofyour leadership journey, it's
not the end.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
It's so true, it really is a process of lifelong
learning.
But one of the things youtalked about with ACHE, with me
when we talked about thatfounding back in 1968, neither
you nor I were in ourorganizations when that happened
but you talked about how theleadership of ACHE really kind
of came from academia, orseveral of the leaders of the
(31:21):
past leaders.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Our early roots were very much in academia.
Tom was an academic before hecame to the association.
So you know I'm a little bit ofa novel choice, I guess,
because I'm the first one whoreally didn't come from academia
per se.
But you know, I think I'm astrong believer in you know, one
(31:48):
of the things that we do asorganizations in this healthcare
ecosystem that we're allnavigating through is you have
to build a culture of ant.
You know the, the programs whoare going on the accreditation
journey, the programs who areinvolved in teaching students
all this great stuff that theyneed to learn and are hungry to
(32:12):
learn, hopefully, and themarketplace.
You know that combination ofthings is really important
because you know when peoplecome out of school they still
have a lot to learn.
So, and hopefully, the healthcare marketplace, the
(32:34):
professional societies who areinvolved in the in CAMI, help
make CAMI relevant and stayrelevant in CAMI, help make CAMI
relevant and stay relevant.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And that's really important because things are
moving very quickly in today'senvironment and Debra, you know,
I think one of the parts aroundthat is you know, you're not
just talking the talk here, Imean you, for you and I both
served on the board at a timeprior to uh, prior to my role as
the, the ceo, and then you were, you were board chair yes, I
(33:08):
was.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, it's true.
So I'm, I'm a big believer in,in, you know this, this culture
of, and you know things arebetter with each other.
You know the the bettertogether, collaborative, that
we're involved with, with naz,nazi and Nali and others.
I mean it's important and youknow, too often you know it has
(33:34):
to be sort of this or that.
You know, and I'm a strongbeliever that a lot of the
success of our community and ourprofession is because of this
philosophy of, and we'restronger together for sure.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Absolutely, and Cami is definitely stronger with our
partnership with ACHE and I justreally want to thank you for
that and your long-termcommitment to our organization.
As we kind of go out and I know, we gave a lot of different
levels of tips and advice tostudents.
One final bit of advice forsomeone who's an early careerist
(34:09):
, maybe a recent graduate ormaybe a soon to go into a
graduate, what would be your onekey nugget of advice for them?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, you know, I think there's a couple of things
really no-transcript.
(34:52):
So I would say gettingconnected is really important
and just taking care of others,just as you're taking care of
yourself, take care of others.
I think greatness and kindnessgo hand in hand and I and and
you know you will you will neverregret, you know, being being
(35:13):
kind to another person and andyou know, getting involved in a
chapter.
Really you know, if you donothing else, you need to start
getting involved.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I agree, and I would add to that and you didn't say
it my bit of advice would bejoin ACHE.
You'll never regret it.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I don't want to be a self-promoter too much, although
everybody will be getting adigital brochure after this
podcast.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
No, I'm kidding.
Absolutely Well, Deborah, thankyou very much for your time
today and thank you for yourongoing support of Cami and the
future of health care.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Anthony, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for all you do.
I really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Thanks, Deborah.
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