August 6, 2024 • 27 mins
This podcast features a conversation between Anthony Stanowski and Bill Santulli, operating partner at Water Street Healthcare Partners and former president of Advocate Health-Midwest Region.
Bill discusses his career journey and provides insights for early careerists to achieve success. With a theme of “Leaders Never Arrive”, Bill begins with his decision to pursue a Master's in Health Administration at the University of Minnesota, and his early experiences as an administrative resident and as a fellow.
Bill highlights the importance of the American College of Healthcare Executives, where he is Chair for 2024-2025.
Anthony and Bill delve into the importance of lifelong learning, inquisitiveness, seeking feedback, bringing positive energy to work, and staying true to core values.
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Episode Transcript
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Anthony Stanowski (00:00):
Well, Melissa , thank you very much for that
introduction and a warm welcometoday to an old friend, Bill
Santulli.
Bill, thanks for joining ourshow today.
Bill Santulli (00:11):
Pleasure to be here.
Anthony Stanowski (00:12):
You're in a time of kind of moving from the
president of Advocate HealthWest to Water Street Healthcare
Partners, but what I really wantto do is kind of explore the
early part of your career.
So you know, let's kind offirst talk, bill, what made you
go into healthcare?
Why did you go to University ofMinnesota to get your MHA?
(00:33):
What was the fact that kind ofturned that switch on Anthony
when?
Bill Santulli (00:37):
I as an undergrad .
I was a sociology major and Iwas planning to go into academia
.
In fact, I went right fromundergrad to the University of
Florida to continue my studiesin sociology.
The summer between undergradand starting grad school I
(00:59):
randomly landed at a hospital inNorristown, pennsylvania, close
to where my parents were livingat the time, and that's what
sparked an interest in healthcare.
That's when the light bulbfirst went on, because I was
very fortunate it was a smallmental health facility.
I worked in the billingdepartment.
(01:20):
I also worked part-time as anursing assistant, got to know
the hospital leadership and thewheels started to turn.
So when I went down to FloridaI focused on medical sociology
and health services research andreally used my first year in
Gainesville to be veryintentional about exploring the
(01:45):
pros and cons for me in sometype of healthcare leadership
role versus academia.
And I obviously chose thehealthcare leadership route but
stayed in Gainesville for thetwo years, completed my master's
there and went directly to theMHA program in Minnesota.
So that was quite.
Anthony Stanowski (02:10):
you know, I went from one of the warmest
climates in the country to oneof the coldest when I made that
switch.
Well, the good part aboutMinnesota, though, at least in
Minneapolis, is everything.
You can actually stay indoorswhen you walk down the sidewalks
there.
Well, bill, it's interesting.
I mean I want to catch back upwith you with where you worked
in suburban Philadelphia, aroundNorristown, because that's
(02:33):
where I'm from, in that generalarea, and I think we might have
some friends in common as wekind of go back on there.
But we'll talk about thatafterwards, I guess, as we kind
of go back on there, but we'llwe'll talk about that afterwards
, I guess so.
So you went to Minnesota andand great program Minnesota was
one of the founding programs ofCAMI, one of the first CAMI
(02:54):
accredited programs back whenCAMI began, back in 1968.
But you did two things at thatpoint.
One of them you, you did anadministrative residency.
One of them you did anadministrative residency.
Then you also did another yearas an administrative fellow.
So people confuse those twoitems, could you?
Bill Santulli (03:21):
talk a little bit about what you get out of the
residency and why you did thefellowship?
I'd be happy to, anthony.
So the residency was the summerbetween my first and second
years at Minnesota and I wasvery fortunate that I stayed on
at the hospital I did myresidency at At the time it was
called Metropolitan MedicalCenter in downtown Minneapolis.
I stayed on and workedpart-time during my second year
(03:42):
of school.
The fellowship was apost-graduate experience.
I had completed, you know, thedegree at Minnesota and then, in
my case, I headed out to theWest Coast and did a fellowship
with Health West, which was a atthe time a fairly large, you
know, multi-hospital systembased out of Los Angeles.
(04:07):
But I was very fortunate withboth experiences.
So, you know, as a resident inand you're testing my memory a
little bit, anthony- I know as aresident, because that would
take me back to the summer of1983.
And the chief operating officerat the time, frank Larkin, was
(04:29):
my preceptor and mentor, and hewas extraordinary.
He gave me exposure toeverything from the board to I
was a part of the executive team.
I, you know, was able to workon projects in a variety of
(04:49):
aspects of the operation.
I was able to buildrelationships with every exec on
that team at the time, and so Iwas very, very fortunate.
It was an incredible launch anda couple of things were
happening at that time.
One, it was the advent of DRGsand second, in the case of where
(05:12):
I was at, we merged with ahospital across town in St Paul
to form you know what today ispart of the nucleus of Alina,
and you know here I was astudent gaining exposure to, you
know, a pretty significantmerger at the time and just as
(05:34):
kind of a footnote, Anthony.
It was an incredible experienceand, you know there was a lot of
positives, but there was somethings that I still on your day
job.
You got to keep focused on whatyou're accountable to deliver
(06:08):
while at the same time you'reparticipating in, you know,
building this new thing, andtoggling the two is critically
important.
Shifting gears to thefellowship for a moment.
So I, like I said, I went outto Los Angeles and at the time
it was a significant, you know,health, growing health system
(06:32):
based out of Southern California, and I was very, very fortunate
.
The CEO, a gentleman by thename of Paul Teslow, was, you
know, in the 80s and 90s,arguably one of the most
visionary CEOs in the country,and he assigned me to a
gentleman by the name ofLeighton Crouch and our singular
(06:57):
focus during my fellowship wasto plan and launch a health plan
inside this multi-hospitalsystem and we actually
accomplished that and it grewinto a significant health plan
on the West Coast and we wereactually the first health plan
(07:21):
in the country that entered intocapitated or fully at-risk
arrangements with hospitals.
So I was very fortunate to gaindeep exposure into that whole
risk health plan space as afellow.
Anthony Stanowski (07:38):
Bill, it's phenomenal because it's almost
like what you're doing with yourcareer.
In those periods was verysimilar to where I was, because
I was doing an administrativeFellowship at Graduate Hospital
in Philadelphia and it was thesame thing.
It was the RGs are kicking in,what are they doing?
(07:59):
And then graduate also startedto do a merger.
And then Graduate also startedto do a merger.
And exactly what you said is youknow, I remember my boss saying
to me the merger was occurringand automatically, when the
mergers happened, going, howdoes it affect me?
And there I am, anadministrative resident or
(08:27):
fellow.
You know, all of 23 years old,in the bigger scheme of things,
how it affected.
Anthony Stansky at that pointwas minuscule of what was going
on.
But you, all of a sudden, youkind of take it what's doing for
me?
What's it doing?
And she said the same thingit's it's think about, keep
doing your job, keep your nosedown, do what you're supposed to
be doing, do your work.
And ultimately it did pay offfor me because, as the mergers
occurred, eventually moved up tothe system office as well too.
(08:51):
But I think that's great advice,so true.
Well, you know you hit on someof the interesting
responsibilities, with aresidency and a fellowship,
which is you get to go to theboard meetings and you get to
see those decisions that arebeing made, and it's an
important part of your job thatyou don't actually see for a few
(09:12):
years, quite a few years later,after that kind of occurs with
there.
That kind of occurs with there.
What would you say to a studentwho's kind of looking you know
what I hear some is I havestudents come and say, well,
geez, I don't know whether Ishould do a fellowship because I
don't get as paid as much and Ishould go to a job and I would
make more money doing thatinstead of doing a fellowship.
(09:33):
What would you say to a studentwho came to you with those
thoughts?
Bill Santulli (09:37):
Most well.
As you know, Anthony, many ofthe MHA programs across the
country require some type ofinternship or residency between
the first and second year, sothat's almost a given.
Now the fellowship is anothermatter, because today's students
(09:58):
, or today's graduating students, have a variety of options in
addition to fellowships.
However, I would strongly urgestudents that are seriously
thinking about healthcaredelivery, whether that's in the
acute environment, the homeenvironment, the ambulatory
environment, et cetera tostrongly consider a fellowship,
(10:22):
because it gives you a macroview, a strategic view of the
organization that, as you justsaid, anthony, you may not get
that same view exposure togovernance and senior leadership
until five, ten or more yearsafter you're out of school.
(10:43):
So it really serves as like anaccelerant to gain a deeper
understanding of how theorganization functions.
Anthony Stanowski (10:55):
I agree.
You know, bill, maybe it tookyou five or 10 years to get back
there, but probably took meclose to 20.
So a little bit more longertime to get back into the
boardroom.
But it was, it was, it was.
It was certainly an importantpart and a formative part of my
career too.
So if you're a student now Imean you talked about, you know
(11:23):
you were involved in thedevelopment of the first health,
one of the first health plans,if not the first health plan
within a hospital.
It took fully capitatedarrangements and you know some
of your knowledge and skillsfrom your MHA and your
experience kind of went in there.
If you were looking at studentsright now, where do you see as
some potential growth areas forthem?
Bill Santulli (11:41):
I would point to several areas, anthony, so one
you've got to tune into andunderstand what's the new health
care delivery front door, whichis digital medicine.
It's you know it grew very, veryrapidly during, you know, the
COVID-19 pandemic and itcontinues, and then we had a
(12:04):
slowdown, but it continues togrow and it will continue to be
a significant part of how healthcare, particularly primary care
, mental health and some of thespecialties, are delivered.
(12:25):
I would also recommend toemerging, to early careerists to
gain perspective on the entirehealthcare ecosystem, whether
that's health systems, whetherthat's medical groups, to build
relationships with other folksacross the ecosystem and learn
(13:06):
from them.
I would also you know we'reprobably not even at first base
with applying, you know, machinelearning and artificial
intelligence into the healthcaredelivery sector, when you
exclude sort of the back officeand administrative functions.
So I think it's criticallyimportant for early careerists
(13:29):
to gain an understanding of howAI can and will play a role and,
as early careerists, reallykind of push yourself, push your
team, push your organization,because it's such an exciting
time to come in that we don'teven know what some of the
(13:50):
possibilities are that you knowthis technology will enable us.
So all of that, whether it betechnology, home-based care, the
growing ambulatory space, youwant to tune into all of that.
But at the same time, I'm bigon the fundamentals, are
(14:13):
enduring and, and thefundamentals, whether it be, you
know, communication skills,relationship management, problem
solving, financial acumen.
You've got to continue to workhard at getting better and
better at the fundamentals, andI don't know if any of us ever
master those fundamentals, butyou've got to be intentional
(14:36):
about it.
Anthony Stanowski (14:38):
Yeah, you know it's funny, they call those
the soft skills, but they'reactually some of the hardest
skills to learn.
Yeah.
Bill Santulli (14:46):
I agree.
Anthony Stanowski (14:47):
Yeah, bill, the whole thing around machine
learning and AI, though.
It really does remind me of,you know, when the Internet
kicked in and we didn't quiteknow what it would do where it
would go.
Kept in and we didn't quite knowwhat it would do where it would
go, and you know who could havepictured back when it started
and and look, I was playingaround with FTP and going on the
(15:10):
FTP and going on the sites andtrying to figure out you know
what's out there and kind of seewhere we are today and how it
is kind of moving around on theinternet.
You know freely, quickly and ina lot of ways more efficiently
what AI will do in 10 or 20years.
Bill Santulli (15:26):
You know, anthony , before we leave this topic,
the other thing I want tounderscore is, if I was an early
careerist and I was interestedin healthcare delivery, health
system, medical group etc.
I would gain an understandingof how do we open up patient
(15:49):
access while at the same timereducing the total cost of care.
Healthcare delivery systems,health plans in particular, have
a significant role to play indoing that.
(16:12):
You know.
As an example, if you know,I'll take Chicago, my hometown,
where the life expectancy gapbetween Streeterville in the
city of Chicago versus the SouthSide it's almost a 30-year gap.
It's one of the worst gaps inthe country.
(16:33):
And I raise that simply becauseaccess to health care can and
should play a role in helping toreduce the variation in that
kind of significant gap.
But at the same time, as healthcare leaders, we all have a
significant role to play inhelping to reduce the total cost
of care and lots of opportunityon that front.
Anthony Stanowski (16:56):
Yeah, and a lot of different organizations
kind of approaching it in waysfolks like CVS, health and, you
know, amazon and I know I thinkwas it Walmart's getting out of
the business right now They'vekind of figured that it's a
little too hard for us tounderstand and moving a little
bit away from it.
(17:17):
Some organizations are stillkind of doubling down.
Bill Santulli (17:21):
Yep, well said, anthony, that, uh, that's
Walmart exiting sends a hugesignal into the marketplace.
Uh, that gosh.
This, this business, this arenais a is pretty darn complex, Uh
, and in some cases it's, it'stough to make a healthy margin.
So they kind of retreated a bit.
Anthony Stanowski (17:44):
Yeah, absolutely, Bill.
One of the things we talkedabout different things for
students to know and understandthe different options that are
available, but I think one ofthem that's near and dear to
your heart and to my heart aswell as ACHE, and you're the
incoming chair of the AmericanCollege of Healthcare Executives
(18:05):
, which is, I would arguably say, is the largest professional
organizations of healthcareexecutives in the world and just
an Just an amazing associationto be part of.
Bill, what kind of led you toACHE?
And you know why, why did youget involved in ACHE?
Bill Santulli (18:29):
That's a great question, anthony.
So, first off, to be honest atthe time it goes back to 1982,
83, as a student at Universityof Minnesota, we were required
to join.
So all of my classmates and Ijoined ACHE as students back in
the day and I've been active,you know, in the college since,
(18:53):
for 40 years.
And you know to your questionwell why.
And I would point to threethings.
One, ache does provide, you know, world-class education, whether
it's, you know, the annualCongress or you know, the
clusters or the you know myriadof virtual offerings that ACHE
(19:18):
provides.
The second thing is it's agreat opportunity to network, to
network with colleagues fromother markets and other parts of
the country in a safeenvironment where you can really
let your hair down.
And then, third, folks that getinvolved, particularly at the
(19:40):
chapter level.
We have 78 chapters across thecountry.
It offers some nice leadershipopportunities for folks outside
of their organization and it'sfor those reasons that you know
I stuck with ACHE and decided toplay a leadership role and I'm
(20:02):
blessed to serve on the boardand honored to serve as the
24-25 chair.
Anthony Stanowski (20:09):
Yeah, and Bill, really truly what a great
organization.
And you've named all three ofthe things that I think were
really important to me with ACHEas well.
And let me talk about the thirdone, because that's one that a
lot of young careers don't quiteget, I think, which is, you
know, when you're in a job in anorganization, you always kind
(20:31):
of see, well, the president hasthe most power and whatever the
president says, as you know,bill, whatever you say would get
done right.
So it doesn't quite always worklike that.
It's different types of powerthat's involved in moving an
organization through referentpower, expert power and the like
.
But what you really learn at achapter level is you really are
(20:57):
trying to make things different,trying to move things through
without any formal power, andunderstanding how to use that in
a way to get thingsaccomplished is, to me, one of
the major benefits ofparticipating at a chapter level
.
Bill Santulli (21:12):
Completely agree and at that level, I think
that's a great way you canquickly well, first off, all of
our chapter leadership arevolunteers, but you can quickly
get involved in supporting thechapter in roles where you play
(21:33):
a leadership role, and it givesyou an opportunity to present,
it gives you an opportunity toinnovate, it gives you an
opportunity to frankly, buildyour network and help, to you
know, coach and mentor andsupport others.
So, yeah, I would stronglyencourage early and
mid-careerists.
To you know, get involved atthat level.
(21:56):
And ACHE is only as strong asthe strength of our 78 chapters.
Ache is only as strong as thestrength of our 78 chapters.
The chapters are really what Iwould call almost like the
interstitial glue that holdsACHE together.
Anthony Stanowski (22:12):
Yeah, yeah, that was so true.
And what you've kind ofdescribed in there about
networking, the importance ofnetworking is really what I
think is essential with gettinginvolved in the chapter level,
because you're not justnetworking, you're not just
handing your cards out to peopleand go hey, you know, if you
know of a job, give me a call,but it's really working with
(22:33):
individuals and helping otherpeople succeed.
And by doing that, by giving ofyourself and helping the
success of others, you actuallyfind it comes back to you and
helps you as well.
Well said, the world-classeducation part is amazing though
.
I mean with ACHE again, acheCongress.
(22:56):
For anyone who's ever beenthere, you know how valuable
that is and the depth ofexperience and the speakers are
there.
But the clusters are incrediblyvaluable as well.
I've got a couple of books onmy bookshelf about clusters.
I've attended at ACHE Bill.
What are they for our listenersout there?
Tell me about the clusters.
Bill Santulli (23:19):
So we offer clusters several times a year
Boston, san Diego, some of thecities in Texas, orlando.
But more importantly than thelocation, a cluster will focus
(23:40):
on several topics over amulti-day period.
So in a lot of ways you'regetting kind of a deep immersion
into you know whether it'snegotiating skills or advanced
problem solving skills, exceptthe, you know, advanced
communication skills all kind ofpackaged into a you know two or
(24:05):
three day session.
So there's not a lot ofdowntime but it's a very you
know you'll get out of it whatyou put into it.
But it's a very powerful couplethree days from a learning and
education perspective.
Anthony Stanowski (24:20):
Yeah, intense and knowledgeable, the one that
you were just referring to.
I, you know, I probably one ofthe the most important clusters
that I've ever had the processand techniques and negotiation,
and I'm sure, if you talk to alot of ACHE people, that's one
that almost everyone is goingthrough.
Yeah, yeah.
Bill Santulli (24:41):
Many years, many years ago.
But I yeah, I literally stillcarry around that car that was
handed out.
Anthony Stanowski (24:53):
Me as well, bill, it's so funny.
So you know, we've gone througha nice kind of like a journey
here, kind of touching on avariety of different things.
You know, if you were to talkto a student right now, you kind
(25:15):
of talked about some of theareas to kind of think about,
but what would be the main pieceof advice you would give a
student?
Bill Santulli (25:26):
Yeah, anthony, I would share several pieces of
advice, and where I start iscommit to lifelong learning, and
I've read some of GeneralStanley McChrystal's work.
He served as a four-stargeneral in the US Army, he's a
(25:48):
West Point grad and he did someresearch on.
You know what is it thatdifferentiates highly effective
leaders?
And his conclusion is thatleaders never arrive, that it is
a perpetual ongoing journey andthat we all have the
(26:11):
opportunity to continue to learn, to improve and to get better.
So that's where I start withcommit to lifelong learning, to
lifelong learning, and, frankly,that's one of the things that I
find so intriguing abouthealthcare, because it's so darn
complex and there's so manyparts and pieces and sectors to
(26:33):
this large industry.
With that, there's so muchopportunity to learn, both from
a business, technical, medicalknowledge perspective as well as
leadership.
The second thing I would pointto is be inquisitive.
Every day is an opportunity tolearn from your colleagues.
(26:57):
Clearly, you know health careis a team sport.
None of us succeed on our own.
So lean into your teammates andyour colleagues and, you know,
be aggressive in learning fromeach other and from them.
(27:18):
Over the years of Stephen Coveyand I love one of his mantras,
which is simply seek tounderstand than to be understood
.
I also think it's important forall of us, not just for early
careerists.
You got to ask for feedbackbecause and you got to seek
(27:43):
folks out that will share acandid commentary and feedback,
because most folks will kind ofsugarcoat and gaining.
You know, getting rich feedbackis foundational to gaining a
deeper understanding of who eachof us are and where we have
(28:04):
opportunities to get better andto improve.
Another thing I would recommend, anthony, is that you got to
bring your whole self to workevery single day and bring
positive energy to yourorganization and your team.
When you bring positive energy,others will be drawn to you and
(28:26):
, frankly, want to collaborateand partner with you.
Two more things.
One is never compromise yourcore values.
It's so foundational.
And then, finally, be humblebut play confidently.
Anthony Stanowski (28:43):
Great advice on all of them, bill, and you
know, before we kind of end off,I want to go back to the first
one you said, which is leadersnever arrive, and you yourself.
You were the president ofAdvocate Health Midwest Region
and you're now going to bearriving at a new organization.
(29:05):
Talk a little bit about thatjourney, what you hope to
accomplish at Water StreetHealthcare Partners.
Bill Santulli (29:12):
So you know, Water Street is a healthcare
private equity firm based inChicago.
In Chicago, and Water Streetinvests in three areas One
healthcare services, services tohospitals, health systems,
(29:33):
medical groups.
Two services to life science andpharma and research
organizations and then threemedical device.
In all three of those areas,the vision of the company is to
simply invest in people andideas and in organizations that
(29:57):
can help to drive innovationwithin this healthcare ecosystem
, and most of my new colleaguescome from a deep investment
banking background.
Firms like Water Streetperiodically bring on operating
(30:20):
partners or advisors who, likeyou and I, who have a deep
operational background, who canprovide support to the companies
that the PE firm invests in.
So I'll know more about whatI'm getting into after a few
months, but I'm very excitedabout this next chapter a few
(30:44):
months, but I'm very excitedabout this next chapter.
Anthony Stanowski (30:49):
Well, leaders never arrive and I want to say
you know, I've known you forquite a few years and you truly
are one of the great leaders outthere and I'm looking forward
to seeing what you do at WaterStreet.
Maybe we'll invite you back ona future episode where you can
kind of describe how thatprocess is going.
Thank you very much for yourtime today.
I think this was a greatconversation and so much enjoyed
you sharing your time with us.
Bill Santulli (31:10):
Thank you very much, anthony, it's been a great
pleasure.
Well, Melissa , thank you very much for that
introduction and a warm welcometoday to an old friend, Bill
Santulli.
Bill, thanks for joining ourshow today.
Bill Santulli (00:11):
Pleasure to be here.
Anthony Stanowski (00:12):
You're in a time of kind of moving from the
president of Advocate HealthWest to Water Street Healthcare
Partners, but what I really wantto do is kind of explore the
early part of your career.
So you know, let's kind offirst talk, bill, what made you
go into healthcare?
Why did you go to University ofMinnesota to get your MHA?
(00:33):
What was the fact that kind ofturned that switch on Anthony
when?
Bill Santulli (00:37):
I as an undergrad .
I was a sociology major and Iwas planning to go into academia
.
In fact, I went right fromundergrad to the University of
Florida to continue my studiesin sociology.
The summer between undergradand starting grad school I
(00:59):
randomly landed at a hospital inNorristown, pennsylvania, close
to where my parents were livingat the time, and that's what
sparked an interest in healthcare.
That's when the light bulbfirst went on, because I was
very fortunate it was a smallmental health facility.
I worked in the billingdepartment.
(01:20):
I also worked part-time as anursing assistant, got to know
the hospital leadership and thewheels started to turn.
So when I went down to FloridaI focused on medical sociology
and health services research andreally used my first year in
Gainesville to be veryintentional about exploring the
(01:45):
pros and cons for me in sometype of healthcare leadership
role versus academia.
And I obviously chose thehealthcare leadership route but
stayed in Gainesville for thetwo years, completed my master's
there and went directly to theMHA program in Minnesota.
So that was quite.
Anthony Stanowski (02:10):
you know, I went from one of the warmest
climates in the country to oneof the coldest when I made that
switch.
Well, the good part aboutMinnesota, though, at least in
Minneapolis, is everything.
You can actually stay indoorswhen you walk down the sidewalks
there.
Well, bill, it's interesting.
I mean I want to catch back upwith you with where you worked
in suburban Philadelphia, aroundNorristown, because that's
(02:33):
where I'm from, in that generalarea, and I think we might have
some friends in common as wekind of go back on there.
But we'll talk about thatafterwards, I guess, as we kind
of go back on there, but we'llwe'll talk about that afterwards
, I guess so.
So you went to Minnesota andand great program Minnesota was
one of the founding programs ofCAMI, one of the first CAMI
(02:54):
accredited programs back whenCAMI began, back in 1968.
But you did two things at thatpoint.
One of them you, you did anadministrative residency.
One of them you did anadministrative residency.
Then you also did another yearas an administrative fellow.
So people confuse those twoitems, could you?
Bill Santulli (03:21):
talk a little bit about what you get out of the
residency and why you did thefellowship?
I'd be happy to, anthony.
So the residency was the summerbetween my first and second
years at Minnesota and I wasvery fortunate that I stayed on
at the hospital I did myresidency at At the time it was
called Metropolitan MedicalCenter in downtown Minneapolis.
I stayed on and workedpart-time during my second year
(03:42):
of school.
The fellowship was apost-graduate experience.
I had completed, you know, thedegree at Minnesota and then, in
my case, I headed out to theWest Coast and did a fellowship
with Health West, which was a atthe time a fairly large, you
know, multi-hospital systembased out of Los Angeles.
(04:07):
But I was very fortunate withboth experiences.
So, you know, as a resident inand you're testing my memory a
little bit, anthony- I know as aresident, because that would
take me back to the summer of1983.
And the chief operating officerat the time, frank Larkin, was
(04:29):
my preceptor and mentor, and hewas extraordinary.
He gave me exposure toeverything from the board to I
was a part of the executive team.
I, you know, was able to workon projects in a variety of
(04:49):
aspects of the operation.
I was able to buildrelationships with every exec on
that team at the time, and so Iwas very, very fortunate.
It was an incredible launch anda couple of things were
happening at that time.
One, it was the advent of DRGsand second, in the case of where
(05:12):
I was at, we merged with ahospital across town in St Paul
to form you know what today ispart of the nucleus of Alina,
and you know here I was astudent gaining exposure to, you
know, a pretty significantmerger at the time and just as
(05:34):
kind of a footnote, Anthony.
It was an incredible experienceand, you know there was a lot of
positives, but there was somethings that I still on your day
job.
You got to keep focused on whatyou're accountable to deliver
(06:08):
while at the same time you'reparticipating in, you know,
building this new thing, andtoggling the two is critically
important.
Shifting gears to thefellowship for a moment.
So I, like I said, I went outto Los Angeles and at the time
it was a significant, you know,health, growing health system
(06:32):
based out of Southern California, and I was very, very fortunate
.
The CEO, a gentleman by thename of Paul Teslow, was, you
know, in the 80s and 90s,arguably one of the most
visionary CEOs in the country,and he assigned me to a
gentleman by the name ofLeighton Crouch and our singular
(06:57):
focus during my fellowship wasto plan and launch a health plan
inside this multi-hospitalsystem and we actually
accomplished that and it grewinto a significant health plan
on the West Coast and we wereactually the first health plan
(07:21):
in the country that entered intocapitated or fully at-risk
arrangements with hospitals.
So I was very fortunate to gaindeep exposure into that whole
risk health plan space as afellow.
Anthony Stanowski (07:38):
Bill, it's phenomenal because it's almost
like what you're doing with yourcareer.
In those periods was verysimilar to where I was, because
I was doing an administrativeFellowship at Graduate Hospital
in Philadelphia and it was thesame thing.
It was the RGs are kicking in,what are they doing?
(07:59):
And then graduate also startedto do a merger.
And then Graduate also startedto do a merger.
And exactly what you said is youknow, I remember my boss saying
to me the merger was occurringand automatically, when the
mergers happened, going, howdoes it affect me?
And there I am, anadministrative resident or
(08:27):
fellow.
You know, all of 23 years old,in the bigger scheme of things,
how it affected.
Anthony Stansky at that pointwas minuscule of what was going
on.
But you, all of a sudden, youkind of take it what's doing for
me?
What's it doing?
And she said the same thingit's it's think about, keep
doing your job, keep your nosedown, do what you're supposed to
be doing, do your work.
And ultimately it did pay offfor me because, as the mergers
occurred, eventually moved up tothe system office as well too.
(08:51):
But I think that's great advice,so true.
Well, you know you hit on someof the interesting
responsibilities, with aresidency and a fellowship,
which is you get to go to theboard meetings and you get to
see those decisions that arebeing made, and it's an
important part of your job thatyou don't actually see for a few
(09:12):
years, quite a few years later,after that kind of occurs with
there.
That kind of occurs with there.
What would you say to a studentwho's kind of looking you know
what I hear some is I havestudents come and say, well,
geez, I don't know whether Ishould do a fellowship because I
don't get as paid as much and Ishould go to a job and I would
make more money doing thatinstead of doing a fellowship.
(09:33):
What would you say to a studentwho came to you with those
thoughts?
Bill Santulli (09:37):
Most well.
As you know, Anthony, many ofthe MHA programs across the
country require some type ofinternship or residency between
the first and second year, sothat's almost a given.
Now the fellowship is anothermatter, because today's students
(09:58):
, or today's graduating students, have a variety of options in
addition to fellowships.
However, I would strongly urgestudents that are seriously
thinking about healthcaredelivery, whether that's in the
acute environment, the homeenvironment, the ambulatory
environment, et cetera tostrongly consider a fellowship,
(10:22):
because it gives you a macroview, a strategic view of the
organization that, as you justsaid, anthony, you may not get
that same view exposure togovernance and senior leadership
until five, ten or more yearsafter you're out of school.
(10:43):
So it really serves as like anaccelerant to gain a deeper
understanding of how theorganization functions.
Anthony Stanowski (10:55):
I agree.
You know, bill, maybe it tookyou five or 10 years to get back
there, but probably took meclose to 20.
So a little bit more longertime to get back into the
boardroom.
But it was, it was, it was.
It was certainly an importantpart and a formative part of my
career too.
So if you're a student now Imean you talked about, you know
(11:23):
you were involved in thedevelopment of the first health,
one of the first health plans,if not the first health plan
within a hospital.
It took fully capitatedarrangements and you know some
of your knowledge and skillsfrom your MHA and your
experience kind of went in there.
If you were looking at studentsright now, where do you see as
some potential growth areas forthem?
Bill Santulli (11:41):
I would point to several areas, anthony, so one
you've got to tune into andunderstand what's the new health
care delivery front door, whichis digital medicine.
It's you know it grew very, veryrapidly during, you know, the
COVID-19 pandemic and itcontinues, and then we had a
(12:04):
slowdown, but it continues togrow and it will continue to be
a significant part of how healthcare, particularly primary care
, mental health and some of thespecialties, are delivered.
(12:25):
I would also recommend toemerging, to early careerists to
gain perspective on the entirehealthcare ecosystem, whether
that's health systems, whetherthat's medical groups, to build
relationships with other folksacross the ecosystem and learn
(13:06):
from them.
I would also you know we'reprobably not even at first base
with applying, you know, machinelearning and artificial
intelligence into the healthcaredelivery sector, when you
exclude sort of the back officeand administrative functions.
So I think it's criticallyimportant for early careerists
(13:29):
to gain an understanding of howAI can and will play a role and,
as early careerists, reallykind of push yourself, push your
team, push your organization,because it's such an exciting
time to come in that we don'teven know what some of the
(13:50):
possibilities are that you knowthis technology will enable us.
So all of that, whether it betechnology, home-based care, the
growing ambulatory space, youwant to tune into all of that.
But at the same time, I'm bigon the fundamentals, are
(14:13):
enduring and, and thefundamentals, whether it be, you
know, communication skills,relationship management, problem
solving, financial acumen.
You've got to continue to workhard at getting better and
better at the fundamentals, andI don't know if any of us ever
master those fundamentals, butyou've got to be intentional
(14:36):
about it.
Anthony Stanowski (14:38):
Yeah, you know it's funny, they call those
the soft skills, but they'reactually some of the hardest
skills to learn.
Yeah.
Bill Santulli (14:46):
I agree.
Anthony Stanowski (14:47):
Yeah, bill, the whole thing around machine
learning and AI, though.
It really does remind me of,you know, when the Internet
kicked in and we didn't quiteknow what it would do where it
would go.
Kept in and we didn't quite knowwhat it would do where it would
go, and you know who could havepictured back when it started
and and look, I was playingaround with FTP and going on the
(15:10):
FTP and going on the sites andtrying to figure out you know
what's out there and kind of seewhere we are today and how it
is kind of moving around on theinternet.
You know freely, quickly and ina lot of ways more efficiently
what AI will do in 10 or 20years.
Bill Santulli (15:26):
You know, anthony , before we leave this topic,
the other thing I want tounderscore is, if I was an early
careerist and I was interestedin healthcare delivery, health
system, medical group etc.
I would gain an understandingof how do we open up patient
(15:49):
access while at the same timereducing the total cost of care.
Healthcare delivery systems,health plans in particular, have
a significant role to play indoing that.
(16:12):
You know.
As an example, if you know,I'll take Chicago, my hometown,
where the life expectancy gapbetween Streeterville in the
city of Chicago versus the SouthSide it's almost a 30-year gap.
It's one of the worst gaps inthe country.
(16:33):
And I raise that simply becauseaccess to health care can and
should play a role in helping toreduce the variation in that
kind of significant gap.
But at the same time, as healthcare leaders, we all have a
significant role to play inhelping to reduce the total cost
of care and lots of opportunityon that front.
Anthony Stanowski (16:56):
Yeah, and a lot of different organizations
kind of approaching it in waysfolks like CVS, health and, you
know, amazon and I know I thinkwas it Walmart's getting out of
the business right now They'vekind of figured that it's a
little too hard for us tounderstand and moving a little
bit away from it.
(17:17):
Some organizations are stillkind of doubling down.
Bill Santulli (17:21):
Yep, well said, anthony, that, uh, that's
Walmart exiting sends a hugesignal into the marketplace.
Uh, that gosh.
This, this business, this arenais a is pretty darn complex, Uh
, and in some cases it's, it'stough to make a healthy margin.
So they kind of retreated a bit.
Anthony Stanowski (17:44):
Yeah, absolutely, Bill.
One of the things we talkedabout different things for
students to know and understandthe different options that are
available, but I think one ofthem that's near and dear to
your heart and to my heart aswell as ACHE, and you're the
incoming chair of the AmericanCollege of Healthcare Executives
(18:05):
, which is, I would arguably say, is the largest professional
organizations of healthcareexecutives in the world and just
an Just an amazing associationto be part of.
Bill, what kind of led you toACHE?
And you know why, why did youget involved in ACHE?
Bill Santulli (18:29):
That's a great question, anthony.
So, first off, to be honest atthe time it goes back to 1982,
83, as a student at Universityof Minnesota, we were required
to join.
So all of my classmates and Ijoined ACHE as students back in
the day and I've been active,you know, in the college since,
(18:53):
for 40 years.
And you know to your questionwell why.
And I would point to threethings.
One, ache does provide, you know, world-class education, whether
it's, you know, the annualCongress or you know, the
clusters or the you know myriadof virtual offerings that ACHE
(19:18):
provides.
The second thing is it's agreat opportunity to network, to
network with colleagues fromother markets and other parts of
the country in a safeenvironment where you can really
let your hair down.
And then, third, folks that getinvolved, particularly at the
(19:40):
chapter level.
We have 78 chapters across thecountry.
It offers some nice leadershipopportunities for folks outside
of their organization and it'sfor those reasons that you know
I stuck with ACHE and decided toplay a leadership role and I'm
(20:02):
blessed to serve on the boardand honored to serve as the
24-25 chair.
Anthony Stanowski (20:09):
Yeah, and Bill, really truly what a great
organization.
And you've named all three ofthe things that I think were
really important to me with ACHEas well.
And let me talk about the thirdone, because that's one that a
lot of young careers don't quiteget, I think, which is, you
know, when you're in a job in anorganization, you always kind
(20:31):
of see, well, the president hasthe most power and whatever the
president says, as you know,bill, whatever you say would get
done right.
So it doesn't quite always worklike that.
It's different types of powerthat's involved in moving an
organization through referentpower, expert power and the like
.
But what you really learn at achapter level is you really are
(20:57):
trying to make things different,trying to move things through
without any formal power, andunderstanding how to use that in
a way to get thingsaccomplished is, to me, one of
the major benefits ofparticipating at a chapter level
.
Bill Santulli (21:12):
Completely agree and at that level, I think
that's a great way you canquickly well, first off, all of
our chapter leadership arevolunteers, but you can quickly
get involved in supporting thechapter in roles where you play
(21:33):
a leadership role, and it givesyou an opportunity to present,
it gives you an opportunity toinnovate, it gives you an
opportunity to frankly, buildyour network and help, to you
know, coach and mentor andsupport others.
So, yeah, I would stronglyencourage early and
mid-careerists.
To you know, get involved atthat level.
(21:56):
And ACHE is only as strong asthe strength of our 78 chapters.
Ache is only as strong as thestrength of our 78 chapters.
The chapters are really what Iwould call almost like the
interstitial glue that holdsACHE together.
Anthony Stanowski (22:12):
Yeah, yeah, that was so true.
And what you've kind ofdescribed in there about
networking, the importance ofnetworking is really what I
think is essential with gettinginvolved in the chapter level,
because you're not justnetworking, you're not just
handing your cards out to peopleand go hey, you know, if you
know of a job, give me a call,but it's really working with
(22:33):
individuals and helping otherpeople succeed.
And by doing that, by giving ofyourself and helping the
success of others, you actuallyfind it comes back to you and
helps you as well.
Well said, the world-classeducation part is amazing though
.
I mean with ACHE again, acheCongress.
(22:56):
For anyone who's ever beenthere, you know how valuable
that is and the depth ofexperience and the speakers are
there.
But the clusters are incrediblyvaluable as well.
I've got a couple of books onmy bookshelf about clusters.
I've attended at ACHE Bill.
What are they for our listenersout there?
Tell me about the clusters.
Bill Santulli (23:19):
So we offer clusters several times a year
Boston, san Diego, some of thecities in Texas, orlando.
But more importantly than thelocation, a cluster will focus
(23:40):
on several topics over amulti-day period.
So in a lot of ways you'regetting kind of a deep immersion
into you know whether it'snegotiating skills or advanced
problem solving skills, exceptthe, you know, advanced
communication skills all kind ofpackaged into a you know two or
(24:05):
three day session.
So there's not a lot ofdowntime but it's a very you
know you'll get out of it whatyou put into it.
But it's a very powerful couplethree days from a learning and
education perspective.
Anthony Stanowski (24:20):
Yeah, intense and knowledgeable, the one that
you were just referring to.
I, you know, I probably one ofthe the most important clusters
that I've ever had the processand techniques and negotiation,
and I'm sure, if you talk to alot of ACHE people, that's one
that almost everyone is goingthrough.
Yeah, yeah.
Bill Santulli (24:41):
Many years, many years ago.
But I yeah, I literally stillcarry around that car that was
handed out.
Anthony Stanowski (24:53):
Me as well, bill, it's so funny.
So you know, we've gone througha nice kind of like a journey
here, kind of touching on avariety of different things.
You know, if you were to talkto a student right now, you kind
(25:15):
of talked about some of theareas to kind of think about,
but what would be the main pieceof advice you would give a
student?
Bill Santulli (25:26):
Yeah, anthony, I would share several pieces of
advice, and where I start iscommit to lifelong learning, and
I've read some of GeneralStanley McChrystal's work.
He served as a four-stargeneral in the US Army, he's a
(25:48):
West Point grad and he did someresearch on.
You know what is it thatdifferentiates highly effective
leaders?
And his conclusion is thatleaders never arrive, that it is
a perpetual ongoing journey andthat we all have the
(26:11):
opportunity to continue to learn, to improve and to get better.
So that's where I start withcommit to lifelong learning, to
lifelong learning, and, frankly,that's one of the things that I
find so intriguing abouthealthcare, because it's so darn
complex and there's so manyparts and pieces and sectors to
(26:33):
this large industry.
With that, there's so muchopportunity to learn, both from
a business, technical, medicalknowledge perspective as well as
leadership.
The second thing I would pointto is be inquisitive.
Every day is an opportunity tolearn from your colleagues.
(26:57):
Clearly, you know health careis a team sport.
None of us succeed on our own.
So lean into your teammates andyour colleagues and, you know,
be aggressive in learning fromeach other and from them.
(27:18):
Over the years of Stephen Coveyand I love one of his mantras,
which is simply seek tounderstand than to be understood
.
I also think it's important forall of us, not just for early
careerists.
You got to ask for feedbackbecause and you got to seek
(27:43):
folks out that will share acandid commentary and feedback,
because most folks will kind ofsugarcoat and gaining.
You know, getting rich feedbackis foundational to gaining a
deeper understanding of who eachof us are and where we have
(28:04):
opportunities to get better andto improve.
Another thing I would recommend, anthony, is that you got to
bring your whole self to workevery single day and bring
positive energy to yourorganization and your team.
When you bring positive energy,others will be drawn to you and
(28:26):
, frankly, want to collaborateand partner with you.
Two more things.
One is never compromise yourcore values.
It's so foundational.
And then, finally, be humblebut play confidently.
Anthony Stanowski (28:43):
Great advice on all of them, bill, and you
know, before we kind of end off,I want to go back to the first
one you said, which is leadersnever arrive, and you yourself.
You were the president ofAdvocate Health Midwest Region
and you're now going to bearriving at a new organization.
(29:05):
Talk a little bit about thatjourney, what you hope to
accomplish at Water StreetHealthcare Partners.
Bill Santulli (29:12):
So you know, Water Street is a healthcare
private equity firm based inChicago.
In Chicago, and Water Streetinvests in three areas One
healthcare services, services tohospitals, health systems,
(29:33):
medical groups.
Two services to life science andpharma and research
organizations and then threemedical device.
In all three of those areas,the vision of the company is to
simply invest in people andideas and in organizations that
(29:57):
can help to drive innovationwithin this healthcare ecosystem
, and most of my new colleaguescome from a deep investment
banking background.
Firms like Water Streetperiodically bring on operating
(30:20):
partners or advisors who, likeyou and I, who have a deep
operational background, who canprovide support to the companies
that the PE firm invests in.
So I'll know more about whatI'm getting into after a few
months, but I'm very excitedabout this next chapter a few
(30:44):
months, but I'm very excitedabout this next chapter.
Anthony Stanowski (30:49):
Well, leaders never arrive and I want to say
you know, I've known you forquite a few years and you truly
are one of the great leaders outthere and I'm looking forward
to seeing what you do at WaterStreet.
Maybe we'll invite you back ona future episode where you can
kind of describe how thatprocess is going.
Thank you very much for yourtime today.
I think this was a greatconversation and so much enjoyed
you sharing your time with us.
Bill Santulli (31:10):
Thank you very much, anthony, it's been a great
pleasure.
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