October 25, 2024 • 21 mins
Discover the unique journey of Rulon Stacey whose story takes us through his humble beginnings at BYU, his service in the United States Air Force, to his award-winning leadership as the CEO of leading health systems, including Fairview Health System in Minneapolis, University of Colorado Health, and the Poudre Valley Health System (PVHS) in Fort Collins, Colorado. Under Dr Stacey’s leadership, Poudre Valley became one of the first hospitals to receive the United States’ most prestigious quality award, The Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award.
Rulon reflects on the meaningful transition from a healthcare professional, Guidehouse consultant, Board Chair of ACHE, and Director of Graduate Programs in Health Administration at the University of Colorado, to mission president for the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day Saints in Canada. This episode is a heartfelt tribute to leadership, growth, and the enduring connections that can help shape our lives as leaders not just in healthcare but in our community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, melissa, thank you very much for that
introduction and, ruan, aspecial thank you to you today
for our first podcast that kindof features someone from outside
of the United States, someonein Canada.
So thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Well, you didn't have to go far, Hi how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm doing well, I'm doing well, you know you're.
You're in my career.
We've intersected over severaldifferent levels and places
where both of us have been, andI think our paths just continue
to intertwine, which to me, is areal special treat.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Sadly, our, our paths have crossed over two different
centuries.
Have crossed over two differentcenturies.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
True Boy.
Now I really feel old.
I know Ruling that, you know.
Master, your Healthcare careeris really dedicated to help
early careerists kind of movealong, and I think the fun part
about your career is that it'sdefinitely not a linear process.
(01:08):
I mean, I think you know a lotof early careerists think, okay,
I'll go from point A to point Bto point C and things will kind
of happen.
And to me it's interesting howthings kind of intertwine.
For you and the title of thisparticular podcast I'm calling
we're calling Saving Lives andSaving Souls, because I think
(01:28):
what you're all about, when itcomes down to the core of it, is
how do you help other peopleget better?
And sometimes that'sindividuals and sometimes that's
communities and sometimes it'sthe souls of the people too.
So it's a fascinating kind ofcareer process for you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I appreciate that I actually agree with that.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So let's talk about your first job.
Let's even kind of go prior tothat College College.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah.
So I went to, I was at BYU andI wanted to get into their
public administration program.
I scored so low on the GMAT 405on the GMAT gets you nowhere
(02:27):
and they happened to be startingan mha and they took everybody
and so I said, okay, I'll, I'lldo the byu unaccredited mha.
And I've been trying to get byuto get accredited since then
and they haven't and I'm sadabout that university of ut,
utah and Weber State have.
But I wish BYU would get offthe dime and get accredited.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, we'll work on that after this call.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
We can do that.
But it doesn't matter nowbecause University of Colorado
Denver is accredited, so I'm allgood about that.
So I went there, got mymaster's degree there, could not
find a residency uh, aninternship residency because we
(03:16):
had no alumni.
And that's really how you, youdo that and um.
So I joined, out of desperation, the United States Air Force,
which turned out to be afabulous, fabulous experience,
highly recommended Anybody inthe military.
Do not whine, you are in agreat place.
(03:38):
And I, I would have stayedforever, except at the time they
would only let physicians beCEOs and I wanted to be the CEO
one day.
So I got out to take a CEO rolein a rural Colorado town and
shortly after they allowednon-physicians to be the CEO.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So, and from there, rural town to Chicago, back to
Fort Collins, academic medicineI've kind of been all over, okay
, I you know you're and I thinkyou first made kind of the
national spotlight and I firstbecame aware of you when you
were at Poudre Valley and Ithink you were doing.
(04:24):
You know you were the presidentand CEO at Poudre Valley and I
think you were doing.
You were the president and CEOof Poudre Valley and, if I can
recall correctly again mindbeing memory almost full at this
point but you've really kind ofmoved in some innovative ways
at Poudre Valley.
So do you wanna talk aboutthose for a second?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I would like to think that I was the fifth CEO
in four years.
We had to do something.
We needed to find new ways toengage the employees.
Interestingly, I took many ofthe, the philosophies that guide
me personally and spiritually,then adopted them in our
(05:11):
day-to-day operations.
At Puna Valley, for example,you've got a lot of people who
will say, well, my employeesdon't have to like me, they just
have to get the job done.
And I say, yeah, actually,actually that won't work here.
You can't.
You can't work here with that.
We have a um, we have ascripture in um.
(05:35):
Now I'm on a church mission.
So this is all very new to me,I mean very familiar to me right
now, but it says no power orinfluence can or ought to be
maintained by virtue of thepriesthood, only by persuasion,
by long-suffering, by gentleness, meekness and love, unfeigned
that is.
And I adopted that there.
(05:57):
We're going to be kind andloving and gentle and meek.
We're going to move toward acommon goal, which we used was
baldridge, and we're going tomeasure that and we're going to
but.
But we're going to be nice toeach other and we're going to be
.
We're going to measure how nicewe are to each other and we're
just I don't want to work in aplace that doesn't feel like I'm
(06:17):
at home and it really changedthe culture and led us to the
Baldrige and led us from anorganization that was making
about $100 million a year to anorganization that was making
$800 million a year Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Wow, that's quite a growth trajectory and kind of
taking that into account withthe Baldrige, which is an
incredible process improvementapproach.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, baldrige was.
It is the tool.
We sat down, we talked about itwhen I came from SSM and was
working with Sister Mary Jean,who was very into Baldrige.
Yeah, I was a follower of theBaldrige process.
When I got to to Poudre Valleyand we talked about it as a
(07:10):
senior team and I said I, I'mnot smart enough I got 405 on my
gmat I to do this myself.
I need a pattern, I needsomething to follow and if it's
not Baldrige, we can do ISO 9000.
I'm okay with that.
We can do whatever we want todo and we've vetted it out and
we decided on Baldrige and I'vebeen very, very grateful.
(07:32):
I believe Baldrige adds a levelof complexity to ISO 9000 or to
Lane Six Sigma Lane Six Sigma Iknow there's people who love
that.
It's a tiny portion of Baldrige.
If all you're doing is Lean SixSigma, you're leaving gallons
on the table.
(07:52):
And so I wanted to move forwardwith that and had a team there
was some people on the team.
Had a team there was somepeople on the team.
For example, we would tell,based on this philosophy of mine
that comes for really from myreligious background that I
(08:16):
would talk to the leaders andand we would.
We would encourage leaders to tothat your goal is to provide a
service and the service youprovide is management and the
customers of that service areyour employees.
And if you can't treat themlike like customers, and we
(08:41):
would do customer satisfactionsurveys and and we would
understand every, every employee, every leader in the
organization would get acustomer survey back from their
employees and we'd post them onthe wall and say this is how
well I'm meeting the needs ofour employees, including the CEO
.
The CEO would get feedback frommy senior team.
(09:07):
I would report what I wasworking on with the board, post
it on the wall.
The senior team would say Rulon, you're a great guy, honestly,
we love working for you, but youhave a tendency to get out in
public and promise things thatare in my area and it burdens me
and I would like to be involvedin that process and I thought
(09:29):
that's pretty fair.
Yeah, it was that kind ofprocess and we tried to work
that all the way through theorganization was something that
became noticed in theprofessional press.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I remember that's when you got picked up by Modern
Healthcare.
You were named one of ModernHealthcare's top most
influential people at that point.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I was.
I was in the top 100 forseveral years in a row, as we
were trying to adopt thisphilosophy and move it forward.
See.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I honestly do.
I did follow your back.
I'm so impressed.
I'm so impressed.
You also really got to start toget involved when you were at
Poudreville Maybe more involvedwith ACHE at increasing levels
of work with them is what comesdown to it, if I remember.
Levels of work with them iswhat it comes down to it, if I
(10:30):
remember.
So you were on the governancecommittee and moved to
University of Colorado Healthbut really was on track to be
the chair back when you werewith Poudre, and I'll never
forget Rowan, you gave thefunniest address as chair of
ACHE.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh no, what did I say ?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I don't think I've ever seen anyone kind of break
up the crowd as much as you didin that point.
Well, what did I say?
Was it bad it was.
It had a self-deprecating partto it which was really, you know
, charming, kind of being theparticular role of the ACHE
(11:14):
chair.
But the way you kind ofreferenced prior chairs and
everything like that, which isso nice, I mean not, you know,
not insulting everyone, but youkind of went through that part
and just I don't what's thesaying.
You may not remember whatsomeone said, but you always
remember how they made you feel,and I think anyone in the
audience.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, I'm honored by that, Thank you.
So tell me what that was likebeing the chair of ACHE, and why
.
Why did you do it?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, I started just as the chapter on the, the
chapter committee in um,colorado, and then as regent and
then as, uh, when I was regent,I I started to think about, did
(12:06):
I ever want to do that?
And I just got more involvedand more involved, really became
fans of both Tom and Deborahand, honestly, the people on the
board.
I can fully say to themembership of the American
(12:29):
College of Healthcare Executivesthat those, the leaders, the
chair officers, the governingboard, they are such good people
and they are so committed todoing what's right.
You're talking about souls tosaving lives and saving souls or
(12:50):
something like that.
and and you know, that was bigfor us at poudre valley, what we
, we were all about I would, we,we wanted, we kept track of
numbers all the time, but it wasbecause and we reminded our
people there that behind everynumber was a grandmother who was
(13:13):
going to be able to go to teawith her granddaughter, or a
grandfather is going to be ableto pay catch with his grandson.
Again, every number representeda person, a real thing
presented a person, a real, areal thing.
And when I got to ACHE, I foundother people of that same ilk.
(13:33):
That that's what guided them.
They were, they were highexpectation, but they were high
love and I liked that.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
You know, a prior episode we did was just with
Bill Santoli, who is the currentchair.
You really you do get thatsense with ACHE that people are
doing it because there is agreater good.
And how do you learn fromothers, how do you create those
connections and how do you youknow, how do you both advance
(14:02):
your career but also advance thesociety better?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's a group that reallyreally did that and I learned
from so many people while I wasthere who were doing it in
Charlie Evans, in aninvestor-owned place, and then
giving to the whole world.
Giving to the whole world.
(14:33):
And David Rubenstein in themilitary, in a very tight box
but leading out truly one of thebest leaders I've ever known.
I mean, I could keep going on.
I shouldn't have started namingnames, because that's a path
that will frog.
They were all like that.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, they are, they really are.
So how did you?
What was the point?
And then let's go back in yourearly career and we'll kind of
like switch ages that you said,oh, I want to join ACHE.
What was the?
What made you do it?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Oh, I was in school.
In school, even in a brand newprogram, we would go and talk to
professionals and they wouldsay ACHE, if you're serious
about it, you've got to get intoACHE.
And even though I was not in anaccredited program, we formed a
(15:22):
club, knew that it wasimportant.
We went to state meetings andto this day, uh it, when you're
in my program and I'm and thisis assuming, I'm going back to
the university of colorado,denver, ach or mba, mba and mba
health emphasis program, which I, that's the plan.
(15:43):
Um, um, even now, if, if, ifyou're not in, I don't think
you're serious about health care, I just I, you.
But if you're in a CAMIaccredited program, I know
you're serious.
So get in ACHE and get activeand get engaged and take time
(16:06):
there's there's only so muchthat that I can do as a leader,
as a program director.
There is only so much that aprofessor can do in teaching you
the intricacies of healthcareaccounting and how AI is going
to impact healthcare in thefuture and all the things we're
doing right now.
(16:26):
A lot of it is picking up aphone and calling a friend who
is now running the hospital orrunning the, the insurance
company in topeka, and andthat's you.
That's what ach and nobody elsedoes it like ACHE.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And the membership is really a worldwide membership
to this point too, and Deborah'sjust done an amazing job with
the International HospitalFederation, which I believe I
was on the trip with you toBrazil back when I was with in
my Aramark days with the IHF.
Am I, am I wrong?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I wasn't to Brazil but I've been to many of them.
You know there's two.
From a professional standpoint.
There's two things that standout to me.
One is the gold medal from ACAG.
That's the highest word theyhave and I'm honored by that.
But the other one is lifetimemembership and honorary member
(17:31):
of the International HospitalFederation.
There's they've only given outlike two dozen of those ever in
100 years and I.
It is a great honor and I lovethat organization and I love
those people and I want to beengaged with them again too.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
All right, you were at Cooter Valley.
You went to the University ofColorado health system.
You served there for severalyears.
You then went to a smallcommunity hospital, fairview
Health Services.
And then again, the interestingtwist in your career you went.
I'm going to go work for aconsultant now.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Well kind of.
Fairview is actually theUniversity of Minnesota health
system and it's 2x as big asUniversity of Colorado.
Oh, I didn't realize that.
I thought it was the other wayaround, I'm sorry.
Yeah, no, 28,000 employees andit's got the faculty practice
(18:33):
plan from the University ofMinnesota.
A lot of fun things going onthere.
They've been fraught withconflict.
Even today, I understand, as wespeak, the conflict rages
between the medical staff andthe community.
Fairview was a community healthsystem that bought the faculty
(18:56):
practice plan, and thephysicians have never been
really terribly happy with that,and so it was a big
organization.
But, as you know by where you'recalling me now, I'm now a
mission president for the Churchof Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints.
We are a volunteer organizationand we are fully engaged.
(19:20):
I am, first and foremost.
This is what I do, and theprophet called me.
We will do anything the prophetsays.
I believe that this is the verychurch that Jesus started when
he was on the earth, and I thinkany of us, if we knew that,
would do what he wanted right.
And so they called me to be anarea 70.
(19:47):
The biblical term is that inLuke, chapter 11, the Lord
called 270 to go out in front ofthe apostles two by two.
We have those today and I wouldgo all around North America and
teach what the apostles taughtus to teach.
But it took so much time that Ileft my other job and that's
(20:10):
how I got into consulting.
I called up David Burek andsaid I've got some time during
the week, can you use me?
And he said yes.
So I did that for the fiveyears that I was an Area 70 for
the church and then I joinedUniversity of Colorado after
(20:31):
that as their program director.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Wow, University of Colorado, after that as their
program director Wow.
And then we got reconnectedthrough that approach because I
think you really led thatamazing MBA program that's there
.
That's well known for theirexecutive program.
What they've, you know, thestudents who go there come in at
high levels and then leave iteven higher levels.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
It's just, it's the real deal.
I'm honored to be affiliatedwith that.
I could only.
I was only there for a coupleof years before I received
another call to come now toCanada.
This the difference betweenwhere I am now and where I was
in 2015 when I called DavidBurek, was this is a full-time
gig.
I'm responsible for all themissionary work in Ontario,
(21:23):
canada, from really Brockvilleto Windsor to Timmins and, if
you know the geography, up hereso we have 200 missionaries.
We're responsible for theirsafety, we're responsible for
their spiritual education, we'reresponsible, and I'll tell you
(21:43):
the education these young peopleare getting right now.
They're out on their own, theyget up in the morning, no dating
, just we're focused on Jesusand him crucified and that's it.
And it is amazing to see whatit makes me even more
comfortable in the future of theworld than I was at University
of Colorado when I see thoseamazing young people.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I remember when you called me and told me you were
doing this and what I the firstpart that kind of came to my
mind is what an incrediblesacrifice that you were making
to kind of go okay, I'm going to, I'm going to put my career on
hold and where I was kind ofheading and I'm going to focus
(22:27):
on this.
But that was the first part,one incredible.
But the second part was by nomeans did you consider it a
sacrifice.
This was part of who you wereand what you wanted to do, and
what I had thought at that pointis what an incredible level of
support that the, the youngpeople out in the church in
(22:51):
Toronto, are going to have, withsomeone like you behind them,
helping them kind of meet yourmission.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, you know, anthony, I wish, if you get a
chance, you should come toToronto and spend a day with
some of them and see what theydo.
These people will be runningthe world in 10 years.
They are so, and imagine aninternship like this.
That's two years long, they payfor it themselves, they get up,
(23:22):
they study the scriptures, theygo out, they teach people, they
get people.
You can imagine.
We live in a society where wegive Tony Awards.
We live in a society where wegive Tony Awards on Broadway to
people who mock my religion, andit is.
(23:43):
That's the kind of world welive in, and I just think how
did that even and now evenunderstand?
There's a TV show about Mormonwives or something.
A TV show about Mormon wives orsomething, and I'm just
thinking, you know, come on.
These young people go out everyday and get blasted by that and
(24:09):
I, honestly, I just they are ascommitted as I am that it is in
fact what we say it is.
It's the very New Testamentchurch that Jesus started.
It's on the earth today.
If you want to do your stupidBroadway play, do it, but read
the book.
At least read the book.
I mean, give us the courtesy ofreading the book and seeing how
it's true.
But it's amazing, they'remaking a difference.
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think that's the part when they're making a
difference and I really want tosay you've made a difference.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And Anthony, I I appreciate that these.
One of the things that we dowith these young people is we
want them to go home.
Different people, we.
We just think you're going tocome here.
It's not going to be about youfor the first time in your life,
it is not about you and you'regoing to come here.
It's not going to be about youfor the first time in your life.
It is not about you and you'regoing to be a different person.
And now I'm two and a halfyears into it and I think, oh my
(25:00):
gosh, I'm a different person.
I am not the same person I wasjust two years ago.
It has changed my life.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I'm an old man.
There's a famous one of thequotes in kahil jabran if a
teacher, then by your studentsyou'll be taught, and uh,
certainly, kind of.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I've always felt that yeah, and I have the book up
here.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I love that book yeah , well, roland, this was, this
was a great call.
Thank you.
I know we kind of squeezed insome time here and just really
appreciate it.
In six months is it athree-year part, so six months
she'll be back to Colorado.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
It's a three-year assignment.
It started on July 1st 2022.
It will end on July 1st 2025.
And the dean has been kindenough to call me and he and I
are going to talk first part ofnext year and I think that's the
plan, but they are under noobligation.
(25:59):
So we'll see.
We'll see where it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Well, I'm sure our paths will cross many, many
times.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Many times, Anthony.
It's so good to talk to you, myfriend.
Well, melissa, thank you very much for that
introduction and, ruan, aspecial thank you to you today
for our first podcast that kindof features someone from outside
of the United States, someonein Canada.
So thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Well, you didn't have to go far, Hi how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I'm doing well, I'm doing well, you know you're.
You're in my career.
We've intersected over severaldifferent levels and places
where both of us have been, andI think our paths just continue
to intertwine, which to me, is areal special treat.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Sadly, our, our paths have crossed over two different
centuries.
Have crossed over two differentcenturies.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
True Boy.
Now I really feel old.
I know Ruling that, you know.
Master, your Healthcare careeris really dedicated to help
early careerists kind of movealong, and I think the fun part
about your career is that it'sdefinitely not a linear process.
(01:08):
I mean, I think you know a lotof early careerists think, okay,
I'll go from point A to point Bto point C and things will kind
of happen.
And to me it's interesting howthings kind of intertwine.
For you and the title of thisparticular podcast I'm calling
we're calling Saving Lives andSaving Souls, because I think
(01:28):
what you're all about, when itcomes down to the core of it, is
how do you help other peopleget better?
And sometimes that'sindividuals and sometimes that's
communities and sometimes it'sthe souls of the people too.
So it's a fascinating kind ofcareer process for you.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I appreciate that I actually agree with that.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So let's talk about your first job.
Let's even kind of go prior tothat College College.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah.
So I went to, I was at BYU andI wanted to get into their
public administration program.
I scored so low on the GMAT 405on the GMAT gets you nowhere
(02:27):
and they happened to be startingan mha and they took everybody
and so I said, okay, I'll, I'lldo the byu unaccredited mha.
And I've been trying to get byuto get accredited since then
and they haven't and I'm sadabout that university of ut,
utah and Weber State have.
But I wish BYU would get offthe dime and get accredited.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, we'll work on that after this call.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
We can do that.
But it doesn't matter nowbecause University of Colorado
Denver is accredited, so I'm allgood about that.
So I went there, got mymaster's degree there, could not
find a residency uh, aninternship residency because we
(03:16):
had no alumni.
And that's really how you, youdo that and um.
So I joined, out of desperation, the United States Air Force,
which turned out to be afabulous, fabulous experience,
highly recommended Anybody inthe military.
Do not whine, you are in agreat place.
(03:38):
And I, I would have stayedforever, except at the time they
would only let physicians beCEOs and I wanted to be the CEO
one day.
So I got out to take a CEO rolein a rural Colorado town and
shortly after they allowednon-physicians to be the CEO.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So, and from there, rural town to Chicago, back to
Fort Collins, academic medicineI've kind of been all over, okay
, I you know you're and I thinkyou first made kind of the
national spotlight and I firstbecame aware of you when you
were at Poudre Valley and Ithink you were doing.
(04:24):
You know you were the presidentand CEO at Poudre Valley and I
think you were doing.
You were the president and CEOof Poudre Valley and, if I can
recall correctly again mindbeing memory almost full at this
point but you've really kind ofmoved in some innovative ways
at Poudre Valley.
So do you wanna talk aboutthose for a second?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I would like to think that I was the fifth CEO
in four years.
We had to do something.
We needed to find new ways toengage the employees.
Interestingly, I took many ofthe, the philosophies that guide
me personally and spiritually,then adopted them in our
(05:11):
day-to-day operations.
At Puna Valley, for example,you've got a lot of people who
will say, well, my employeesdon't have to like me, they just
have to get the job done.
And I say, yeah, actually,actually that won't work here.
You can't.
You can't work here with that.
We have a um, we have ascripture in um.
(05:35):
Now I'm on a church mission.
So this is all very new to me,I mean very familiar to me right
now, but it says no power orinfluence can or ought to be
maintained by virtue of thepriesthood, only by persuasion,
by long-suffering, by gentleness, meekness and love, unfeigned
that is.
And I adopted that there.
(05:57):
We're going to be kind andloving and gentle and meek.
We're going to move toward acommon goal, which we used was
baldridge, and we're going tomeasure that and we're going to
but.
But we're going to be nice toeach other and we're going to be
.
We're going to measure how nicewe are to each other and we're
just I don't want to work in aplace that doesn't feel like I'm
(06:17):
at home and it really changedthe culture and led us to the
Baldrige and led us from anorganization that was making
about $100 million a year to anorganization that was making
$800 million a year Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Wow, that's quite a growth trajectory and kind of
taking that into account withthe Baldrige, which is an
incredible process improvementapproach.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, baldrige was.
It is the tool.
We sat down, we talked about itwhen I came from SSM and was
working with Sister Mary Jean,who was very into Baldrige.
Yeah, I was a follower of theBaldrige process.
When I got to to Poudre Valleyand we talked about it as a
(07:10):
senior team and I said I, I'mnot smart enough I got 405 on my
gmat I to do this myself.
I need a pattern, I needsomething to follow and if it's
not Baldrige, we can do ISO 9000.
I'm okay with that.
We can do whatever we want todo and we've vetted it out and
we decided on Baldrige and I'vebeen very, very grateful.
(07:32):
I believe Baldrige adds a levelof complexity to ISO 9000 or to
Lane Six Sigma Lane Six Sigma Iknow there's people who love
that.
It's a tiny portion of Baldrige.
If all you're doing is Lean SixSigma, you're leaving gallons
on the table.
(07:52):
And so I wanted to move forwardwith that and had a team there
was some people on the team.
Had a team there was somepeople on the team.
For example, we would tell,based on this philosophy of mine
that comes for really from myreligious background that I
(08:16):
would talk to the leaders andand we would.
We would encourage leaders to tothat your goal is to provide a
service and the service youprovide is management and the
customers of that service areyour employees.
And if you can't treat themlike like customers, and we
(08:41):
would do customer satisfactionsurveys and and we would
understand every, every employee, every leader in the
organization would get acustomer survey back from their
employees and we'd post them onthe wall and say this is how
well I'm meeting the needs ofour employees, including the CEO
.
The CEO would get feedback frommy senior team.
(09:07):
I would report what I wasworking on with the board, post
it on the wall.
The senior team would say Rulon, you're a great guy, honestly,
we love working for you, but youhave a tendency to get out in
public and promise things thatare in my area and it burdens me
and I would like to be involvedin that process and I thought
(09:29):
that's pretty fair.
Yeah, it was that kind ofprocess and we tried to work
that all the way through theorganization was something that
became noticed in theprofessional press.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I remember that's when you got picked up by Modern
Healthcare.
You were named one of ModernHealthcare's top most
influential people at that point.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I was.
I was in the top 100 forseveral years in a row, as we
were trying to adopt thisphilosophy and move it forward.
See.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I honestly do.
I did follow your back.
I'm so impressed.
I'm so impressed.
You also really got to start toget involved when you were at
Poudreville Maybe more involvedwith ACHE at increasing levels
of work with them is what comesdown to it, if I remember.
Levels of work with them iswhat it comes down to it, if I
(10:30):
remember.
So you were on the governancecommittee and moved to
University of Colorado Healthbut really was on track to be
the chair back when you werewith Poudre, and I'll never
forget Rowan, you gave thefunniest address as chair of
ACHE.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh no, what did I say ?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I don't think I've ever seen anyone kind of break
up the crowd as much as you didin that point.
Well, what did I say?
Was it bad it was.
It had a self-deprecating partto it which was really, you know
, charming, kind of being theparticular role of the ACHE
(11:14):
chair.
But the way you kind ofreferenced prior chairs and
everything like that, which isso nice, I mean not, you know,
not insulting everyone, but youkind of went through that part
and just I don't what's thesaying.
You may not remember whatsomeone said, but you always
remember how they made you feel,and I think anyone in the
audience.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, I'm honored by that, Thank you.
So tell me what that was likebeing the chair of ACHE, and why
.
Why did you do it?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, I started just as the chapter on the, the
chapter committee in um,colorado, and then as regent and
then as, uh, when I was regent,I I started to think about, did
(12:06):
I ever want to do that?
And I just got more involvedand more involved, really became
fans of both Tom and Deborahand, honestly, the people on the
board.
I can fully say to themembership of the American
(12:29):
College of Healthcare Executivesthat those, the leaders, the
chair officers, the governingboard, they are such good people
and they are so committed todoing what's right.
You're talking about souls tosaving lives and saving souls or
(12:50):
something like that.
and and you know, that was bigfor us at poudre valley, what we
, we were all about I would, we,we wanted, we kept track of
numbers all the time, but it wasbecause and we reminded our
people there that behind everynumber was a grandmother who was
(13:13):
going to be able to go to teawith her granddaughter, or a
grandfather is going to be ableto pay catch with his grandson.
Again, every number representeda person, a real thing
presented a person, a real, areal thing.
And when I got to ACHE, I foundother people of that same ilk.
(13:33):
That that's what guided them.
They were, they were highexpectation, but they were high
love and I liked that.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
You know, a prior episode we did was just with
Bill Santoli, who is the currentchair.
You really you do get thatsense with ACHE that people are
doing it because there is agreater good.
And how do you learn fromothers, how do you create those
connections and how do you youknow, how do you both advance
(14:02):
your career but also advance thesociety better?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's a group that reallyreally did that and I learned
from so many people while I wasthere who were doing it in
Charlie Evans, in aninvestor-owned place, and then
giving to the whole world.
Giving to the whole world.
(14:33):
And David Rubenstein in themilitary, in a very tight box
but leading out truly one of thebest leaders I've ever known.
I mean, I could keep going on.
I shouldn't have started namingnames, because that's a path
that will frog.
They were all like that.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, they are, they really are.
So how did you?
What was the point?
And then let's go back in yourearly career and we'll kind of
like switch ages that you said,oh, I want to join ACHE.
What was the?
What made you do it?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Oh, I was in school.
In school, even in a brand newprogram, we would go and talk to
professionals and they wouldsay ACHE, if you're serious
about it, you've got to get intoACHE.
And even though I was not in anaccredited program, we formed a
(15:22):
club, knew that it wasimportant.
We went to state meetings andto this day, uh it, when you're
in my program and I'm and thisis assuming, I'm going back to
the university of colorado,denver, ach or mba, mba and mba
health emphasis program, which I, that's the plan.
(15:43):
Um, um, even now, if, if, ifyou're not in, I don't think
you're serious about health care, I just I, you.
But if you're in a CAMIaccredited program, I know
you're serious.
So get in ACHE and get activeand get engaged and take time
(16:06):
there's there's only so muchthat that I can do as a leader,
as a program director.
There is only so much that aprofessor can do in teaching you
the intricacies of healthcareaccounting and how AI is going
to impact healthcare in thefuture and all the things we're
doing right now.
(16:26):
A lot of it is picking up aphone and calling a friend who
is now running the hospital orrunning the, the insurance
company in topeka, and andthat's you.
That's what ach and nobody elsedoes it like ACHE.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And the membership is really a worldwide membership
to this point too, and Deborah'sjust done an amazing job with
the International HospitalFederation, which I believe I
was on the trip with you toBrazil back when I was with in
my Aramark days with the IHF.
Am I, am I wrong?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I wasn't to Brazil but I've been to many of them.
You know there's two.
From a professional standpoint.
There's two things that standout to me.
One is the gold medal from ACAG.
That's the highest word theyhave and I'm honored by that.
But the other one is lifetimemembership and honorary member
(17:31):
of the International HospitalFederation.
There's they've only given outlike two dozen of those ever in
100 years and I.
It is a great honor and I lovethat organization and I love
those people and I want to beengaged with them again too.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
All right, you were at Cooter Valley.
You went to the University ofColorado health system.
You served there for severalyears.
You then went to a smallcommunity hospital, fairview
Health Services.
And then again, the interestingtwist in your career you went.
I'm going to go work for aconsultant now.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Well kind of.
Fairview is actually theUniversity of Minnesota health
system and it's 2x as big asUniversity of Colorado.
Oh, I didn't realize that.
I thought it was the other wayaround, I'm sorry.
Yeah, no, 28,000 employees andit's got the faculty practice
(18:33):
plan from the University ofMinnesota.
A lot of fun things going onthere.
They've been fraught withconflict.
Even today, I understand, as wespeak, the conflict rages
between the medical staff andthe community.
Fairview was a community healthsystem that bought the faculty
(18:56):
practice plan, and thephysicians have never been
really terribly happy with that,and so it was a big
organization.
But, as you know by where you'recalling me now, I'm now a
mission president for the Churchof Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints.
We are a volunteer organizationand we are fully engaged.
(19:20):
I am, first and foremost.
This is what I do, and theprophet called me.
We will do anything the prophetsays.
I believe that this is the verychurch that Jesus started when
he was on the earth, and I thinkany of us, if we knew that,
would do what he wanted right.
And so they called me to be anarea 70.
(19:47):
The biblical term is that inLuke, chapter 11, the Lord
called 270 to go out in front ofthe apostles two by two.
We have those today and I wouldgo all around North America and
teach what the apostles taughtus to teach.
But it took so much time that Ileft my other job and that's
(20:10):
how I got into consulting.
I called up David Burek andsaid I've got some time during
the week, can you use me?
And he said yes.
So I did that for the fiveyears that I was an Area 70 for
the church and then I joinedUniversity of Colorado after
(20:31):
that as their program director.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Wow, University of Colorado, after that as their
program director Wow.
And then we got reconnectedthrough that approach because I
think you really led thatamazing MBA program that's there
.
That's well known for theirexecutive program.
What they've, you know, thestudents who go there come in at
high levels and then leave iteven higher levels.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
It's just, it's the real deal.
I'm honored to be affiliatedwith that.
I could only.
I was only there for a coupleof years before I received
another call to come now toCanada.
This the difference betweenwhere I am now and where I was
in 2015 when I called DavidBurek, was this is a full-time
gig.
I'm responsible for all themissionary work in Ontario,
(21:23):
canada, from really Brockvilleto Windsor to Timmins and, if
you know the geography, up hereso we have 200 missionaries.
We're responsible for theirsafety, we're responsible for
their spiritual education, we'reresponsible, and I'll tell you
(21:43):
the education these young peopleare getting right now.
They're out on their own, theyget up in the morning, no dating
, just we're focused on Jesusand him crucified and that's it.
And it is amazing to see whatit makes me even more
comfortable in the future of theworld than I was at University
of Colorado when I see thoseamazing young people.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I remember when you called me and told me you were
doing this and what I the firstpart that kind of came to my
mind is what an incrediblesacrifice that you were making
to kind of go okay, I'm going to, I'm going to put my career on
hold and where I was kind ofheading and I'm going to focus
(22:27):
on this.
But that was the first part,one incredible.
But the second part was by nomeans did you consider it a
sacrifice.
This was part of who you wereand what you wanted to do, and
what I had thought at that pointis what an incredible level of
support that the, the youngpeople out in the church in
(22:51):
Toronto, are going to have, withsomeone like you behind them,
helping them kind of meet yourmission.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, you know, anthony, I wish, if you get a
chance, you should come toToronto and spend a day with
some of them and see what theydo.
These people will be runningthe world in 10 years.
They are so, and imagine aninternship like this.
That's two years long, they payfor it themselves, they get up,
(23:22):
they study the scriptures, theygo out, they teach people, they
get people.
You can imagine.
We live in a society where wegive Tony Awards.
We live in a society where wegive Tony Awards on Broadway to
people who mock my religion, andit is.
(23:43):
That's the kind of world welive in, and I just think how
did that even and now evenunderstand?
There's a TV show about Mormonwives or something.
A TV show about Mormon wives orsomething, and I'm just
thinking, you know, come on.
These young people go out everyday and get blasted by that and
(24:09):
I, honestly, I just they are ascommitted as I am that it is in
fact what we say it is.
It's the very New Testamentchurch that Jesus started.
It's on the earth today.
If you want to do your stupidBroadway play, do it, but read
the book.
At least read the book.
I mean, give us the courtesy ofreading the book and seeing how
it's true.
But it's amazing, they'remaking a difference.
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think that's the part when they're making a
difference and I really want tosay you've made a difference.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And Anthony, I I appreciate that these.
One of the things that we dowith these young people is we
want them to go home.
Different people, we.
We just think you're going tocome here.
It's not going to be about youfor the first time in your life,
it is not about you and you'regoing to come here.
It's not going to be about youfor the first time in your life.
It is not about you and you'regoing to be a different person.
And now I'm two and a halfyears into it and I think, oh my
(25:00):
gosh, I'm a different person.
I am not the same person I wasjust two years ago.
It has changed my life.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I'm an old man.
There's a famous one of thequotes in kahil jabran if a
teacher, then by your studentsyou'll be taught, and uh,
certainly, kind of.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I've always felt that yeah, and I have the book up
here.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I love that book yeah , well, roland, this was, this
was a great call.
Thank you.
I know we kind of squeezed insome time here and just really
appreciate it.
In six months is it athree-year part, so six months
she'll be back to Colorado.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
It's a three-year assignment.
It started on July 1st 2022.
It will end on July 1st 2025.
And the dean has been kindenough to call me and he and I
are going to talk first part ofnext year and I think that's the
plan, but they are under noobligation.
(25:59):
So we'll see.
We'll see where it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Well, I'm sure our paths will cross many, many
times.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Many times, Anthony.
It's so good to talk to you, myfriend.
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