July 25, 2024 • 27 mins
Participating in a case competition benefits students by providing experience with real world problem solving, broadening your network, and practicing critical skills like teamwork and persuasion. Join us with our special guest, Randa Hall, MSHA/MBA, the Associate Chair of External Relations & Alumni Affairs and an Assistant Professor in the Department of Health Services Administration at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. Randa chairs the well-respected UAB Health Administration Case Competition, which started in 2007.
Randa describes how the UAB Case Competition was inspired and its incredible growth. In 2024, teams from 67 of the leading healthcare management schools have participated in this unparalleled learning experience. She will discuss what differentiates the winning teams, how to best prepare for the competition, and how students who participated in the competition have benefited in their career.
Join us for an insightful discussion that highlights the transformative power of case competitions as a key part of professional development.
To learn more about the benefits of participating in a case competition, the past winning teams at major competitions, and a video tutorial offering tips on being successful, visit: https://cahme.org/about/case-competitions/.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, Melissa, thank you very much for that
introduction and a warm welcometoday to Randall Hall from the
University of Alabama atBirmingham.
I've got to know Randall wellover the past decade and going
to the UAB case competition.
But before we get into that,Randall, would you mind just
going through a little bit aboutyour health care journey?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Absolutely.
Thanks, anthony.
I've been so fortunate.
I went to undergraduate in theUniversity of Alabama in
Tuscaloosa and then came to UABto do my master's in health
administration and an MBA an MBAand then took off and did my
administrative residency andthen worked in a group practice
(00:53):
a health system, a grouppractice, and then a quality
improvement organization forNorth and South Carolina.
And then we decided to movecloser to our homes and so ended
up in Birmingham at UAB, thanksto a colleague of mine who we
had done our residencies at thesame place.
It's a small world, so thenetworking helped.
(01:14):
And so I came back to UAB andfor the first 14 years really
worked primarily with the MSHAprogram, running the operations
and residency and internshipplacements, and about a decade
ago took on a broader rolewithin the department, working
(01:34):
with our alumni.
But it's been nice because anumber of those students I've
recruited over the years now arerunning health systems all over
the country, so we tap intotheir expertise on lots of
different occasions.
And throughout my time as afaculty member and working with
the MSHA program I've really,you know, stayed connected to
(01:57):
the field of practice.
And so when we kind of came upwith this idea for the case
competition.
It's allowed me to stayconnected to the health care
world, which then is where weget cases, and has allowed me to
stay in that world.
So it's been a lot of fun andgosh.
(02:19):
Almost 23 years at UAB, sowe've been doing the case
competition.
We're working on our 19th thisyear.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And if I'm not mistaken you were.
I don't think the UAB casecompetition was the first
because if I'm correct in here,it was the National Association
of Health Services ExecutiveCase Competition, Absolutely.
So talk about that, because Iknow that really had an impact
on UAB doing this.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
For sure, and you know we, the NAHSE, has the
longest standing health carecase competition.
I think they're working ontwenty nine years this fall and
we had a team participate inthat and they placed third place
.
I believe it was and as we weredebriefing the only thing that
(03:10):
they they said it was the bestexperience they had had while
they were in graduate school.
It allowed them to actuallyapply what they've learned in to
the case and the result oftheir hard work was that they
finished third.
And the result of their hardwork was that they finished
third and as the only thing theysaid is that we wish all of our
(03:33):
classmates could haveparticipated in such an event,
so it kind of planted the seedand about a year after that is
when we started.
So it has been a neat evolutionof case competitions has been a
neat evolution of casecompetitions.
I guess we were the only twofor a long time and now there's
about 30 different casecompetitions, so it's really
grown over the years.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It is crazy, and CAMI does track the winners of the
actually the top three programsof a variety of I don't know if
we hit all 30 in there, but ofthe case competitions around the
country, and it's on ourwebsite for any of our listeners
who want to take a look at it.
But the UAB case competitionand I'll use other people's
(04:18):
words in this, and I've heardthe UAB case competition
referred to as the Super Bowl ofcase competitions, case
competition referred to as theSuper Bowl of case competitions,
and I'm going to ask you, whydo people say that?
What makes the UAB casecompetition so special?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Wow, that's humbling.
You know we couldn't do itwithout the participation of all
of these programs.
We do try to listen, we getfeedback and try to make
adjustments each year.
Some are just minor tweaks,other times it's bigger changes
and maybe that's part and parcelwhy?
Maybe it's considered thatWe've been fortunate that over
the years, so as of the finishof the 18th competition, we've
(05:04):
had 67 different teamsparticipate Some of them are no
longer CAMI accredited andthat's the requirement for our
competition but 67 differentschools and during that time
we've had about 24 schools thathave placed in the top three
(05:24):
over those years and if you addin the semifinalists and
finalists it's close.
It's about 45 teams.
So I hope that maybe part of itis.
You know, you don't know thatevery team is going to win every
year, so maybe people keepcoming back hoping that this
will be their year People keepcoming back hoping that this
(05:45):
will be their year, randa.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
One of the things that I remember is my alma mater
, which actually participated ina few case competitions.
The first time they went downit was the feeling like, oh,
we're going to go and we'regoing to win this case
competition.
We have no doubt about it.
And they learned very quicklyhow skilled the students are in
(06:09):
there and practiced andresearched and I think that
really kind of comes out withhow people approach sending a
team to the competition.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I was just going to say Warren Smedley, who's
actually been a presentationadvisor for us as long as we've
had that kind of component.
A presentation advisor for usas long as we've had that kind
of component.
He has been able to watch theteams evolve in their
presentation skills and it'samazing how skillful these teams
(06:39):
are now from the time when wefirst began.
So kudos to all of the teamsand the schools for really
preparing their teams.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
And you know just around that, rand, as you say,
that I've attended, I think,almost every case competition
since I became CEO.
I might have missed one, I'mnot quite sure if I did, but
when I'm there with otherexecutives we all just kind of
shake our heads and just say I'mglad I'm not in health care
management anymore, becausethere's no way I can compete
(07:06):
with these students more,because there's no way I can
compete with these students.
You mentioned something at thevery beginning where you kind of
gave a little bit of your bioon what you were doing and you
kind of touched on it againnetworking.
I think you know you go intothe case competition thinking,
okay, I really need to learn thesubject, I know the and you get
(07:28):
your.
You know you really get yournose down in your books and kind
of pull the informationtogether and understand.
But the side benefit and thehuge benefit is networking.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That is one of the biggest benefits of
participating in any casecompetition, paying in any case
competition the fact that you'reable to.
You know you're there tocompete but yet there's.
It's always.
It's certainly a networkingwith the other teams and the
students and the faculty fromthose programs.
But even bigger than that isthe exposure and opportunities
(08:05):
to meet healthcare executivesfrom around the country.
You know we've had close to 200different judges helping us in
the case competitions over theyears and they represent all
kinds of different companies,depending on what the case is.
And for the students I mean,even a bigger side of, I guess,
(08:25):
side benefit is that we've hadseveral at least that I know of
several different occasionswhere the students presented and
then at the end of thecompetition or sometime later
they actually received an offerfor an internship or a
fellowship from someone that wason that was judging them.
(08:45):
So it's really neat.
You know kind of how that hashappened over the years.
And what I was remembering lastnight is also our judges are
networking with one another andwe've even had a more junior
judge actually get to know asenior executive and then go
work for him.
So it's been beneficial for thestudents as well as even the
(09:09):
judges.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So it's been beneficial for the students as
well as even the judges.
So you know, you've kind of hiton a couple of points and you
could see me smiling, but ourlisteners can't see me smiling,
because I have actuallyrecruited students from the case
competition to come work forCami and they've done an
incredibly great job, becauseyou see the best of the best of
the programs that are there andthe level of talent and skill
(09:31):
and commitment, it's justamazing.
And then I've also recruitedjudges to be on Cami's board or
committees.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
There's one currently , I believe.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Networking happens all around.
And, Randall, one of the partsthat I've always kind of found
interesting, and you seem likeyou do this almost every year,
but you actually have someformer case competition
participants coming back asjudges too.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And you know we got some feedback at one point
earlier in the competition thatwe had too many seasoned
executives and that we probablyshould have a more balance.
And that's where we go back tosome of our teams that have won.
Primarily, we've gone fromthose teams, but we've also
pulled from teams a member of ateam that didn't win necessarily
(10:31):
but had content, expertise inwhatever the case might be.
So, yeah, that's a side benefitas well that we hope to bring
back those amazing team membersand let them judge on the other
side.
They've also then said it'sdefinitely harder as a student
on that side, but it's also youknow you're pulling for.
(10:52):
You know, as a judge it's.
It also brings some differentchallenges because all the teams
are really good and so how doyou really decide which team
moves forward?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So, yeah, I've always been fascinated with the cases
that you've had at the casecompetition and when I, when I
first started at CAMI, mypredecessor, margaret Margaret
Jones, said to me I'm sorry,margaret Schulte said to me
Anthony, you know, stay in touchwith Miranda, you might be able
(11:27):
to provide her with either somejudges to look at or even some
ideas on cases.
So we we have worked togetherover the past on it and to me
one of the memorable ones was Iwas on the board at Bon Secours
and a case competition.
It was the case where you kindof looked at the community
benefits.
I've also sat on others thatwere also kind of fascinating to
(11:50):
me around that, but you've beenat this game far longer than I.
What have been some of thecases that the students had that
you really felt were wow, thesewere really interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I have each year.
I love the case, you know,because we really try to target
a subject area that's reallychallenging the health care
landscape and so we've beenfortunate to kind of hit things
as they were really being anissue.
(12:22):
Me know, when they get in theirresidency or fellowship or new
job, that oftentimes they'vebeen asked to do a project
surrounded a particular casecompetition that they topic,
that they worked on.
But when I think back, you knowthe Aetna CVS managed care
strategy in Delaware was one ofthe most fascinating case topics
(12:48):
.
We hadn't done as many aroundmanaged care and this was a
particularly interesting one.
I have to say kudos to JillianJoyner and Michael Cole for them
bringing together such afascinating case.
I also thought this year's caseon pediatric behavioral health
(13:09):
was really timely given thealmost I think we would call it
an epidemic in behavioral healthissues for children around the
world, around the country, andEmily Koudelka was the author of
that, and what we try to do isget judges from broad
(13:30):
backgrounds and my hope is thatoftentimes they might end up
being a case author for us.
One of those was Tom Grono whowhen he was at UPMC he had a
case for us about the traumacenter and the competition
against Allegheny, and that wasan incredible case as well.
(13:51):
So we've been fortunate to havelots of you know, different
types of cases and I thinkthat's one of the neat things
that we try to do is, you know,have it not you know we have a
lot of hospital operations, butgroup practice, behavioral
health, long-term care,palliative care, different areas
(14:11):
that you know.
Again, that are current topics,that are, you know, challenges
faced by healthcare executives.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
You know, I think back to that CVS Aetna case and
Mike Cole, who was the presidentof the region, the healthcare
region for Aetna and Jillian whowas vice president the region,
the health care region for Aetnaand Jillian who was vice
president.
I mean their commitment to theprocess and then they were there
in the final rounds listeningto the students and gathering
(14:41):
ideas and thoughts and we'rejust really kind of thrilled
that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yes, yes, and I guess that's our hope is that each
year the host organization willtake the ideas from all of these
teams and be able to implementthem.
There are amazing ideas from allthe teams, not just those who
place in the top three or topsix, three or top six, and we've
(15:14):
been fortunate that in a numberof instances the organization
has invited the first place teamto their organization and asked
them to present their findingsor recommendations to their
senior leadership group.
In fact, Community HospitalCorporation invited the team
that won that year to their.
They did it was a virtualpresentation, but they ended up
(15:35):
using one of theirrecommendations that they had
not thought about prior tolearning, hearing it from the
team and which I mean.
That to me, is likeimplementing one of the
strategies is so cool.
To me is like implementing oneof the strategies is so cool.
We've had others that have beeninvited, you know, back to do
virtual presentations.
We're hoping there was asuggestion that this year's case
(15:59):
winner might present at theNational Children's Hospital
Association meeting.
We're hoping that might stillcome to fruition.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That was an exceptional case and I think you
know to me listening in on that.
When I was there, I mean to seethe executives that attended
from different hospitals,healthcare systems around the
country was crazy nuts.
I mean you had people fromChildren's of Philadelphia, you
had, you know all over the place.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, they were all over.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So you know I.
So if I'm a student and I go,hey, there's a case competition
available.
The first thought in my mind isoh my God, I've got my
schoolwork that I have to do,I've got my part time job, I've
got a little bit of a sociallife that I'm trying to
accomplish and I've got all thisother work that I'm going to do
(17:05):
.
I don you make the ability tobe seen by executives around the
country far outweigh thatlittle bit of loss of personal
time.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Absolutely.
I totally agree the skilldevelopment that you gain.
You hone in on your evaluation,analytical skills, but also your
presentation skills.
That I mean, as I mentionedearlier, that those have really
gotten stellar over the you know, almost two decades we've been
(17:36):
doing this and you know it's onething to present in front of
your classmates and each other,but there is a whole different
level of the bar has been raisedonce you're going from
preliminary to semifinal tofinals and it's you know, I
think, back on some of the teamsthat that that I've seen and
(17:59):
you know it's a bondingexperience within that team and
we hope that that's somethingthat they take with them for a
lifetime with that team.
But it also is certainly, aswe've mentioned, potentially an
entree into jobs or fellowships,and even beyond that you will
(18:20):
more than likely work with orfor some of the people that
you've met over the years inthese various case competitions.
So it's as we always say, it'sa really small world and I think
the students find out how smallit is once they, you know, they
come to a case competition andthen they're interviewing for an
(18:40):
internship or a fellowship,just you know, within that same
time frame or the next year.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And you see it on some of the students' resumes.
Yes, yeah, you know,participant in the UAB case
competition or placed first orplaced second.
You know, you see those thingsout there and for the executives
that are out there that means alot.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Exactly yes.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So I'm a student.
Let's pretend I'm a student andI'm going geez.
This case competition ideasounds like a great idea.
I want to be part of the UABcase competition.
Let me give Randa a call andask her how do I get to be part
of the UAB case competition?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, first and foremost, you go to a CAMI
accredited program and in theresidential format, so the
executive formats, it's just awhole different level.
So we limit it to theresidential format.
So that's, that's the firstthing.
And then it's a matter of youknow getting your team together
(19:43):
from your school, and schools doit a variety of ways.
I look back over the years,probably the most common way is
students expressing interest andthen their faculty members
picking the teams from thestudents that were interested
and typically they're looking atwho's our best finance person,
(20:05):
who's the best at problemsolving and presentation skills.
And then it's working together,working a lot.
We asked the teams did you work40 hours, 40 to 120 or 120 plus
?
And most of them are over 40hours during that time frame,
(20:26):
closer to probably 80.
And so you're right, it'sbalancing all of those competing
interests.
But if the ones that win arethe ones who really do spend
that time, you know.
But first you know getting thecontent and the evidence based
rationale for why they've chosena particular recommendation,
(20:50):
and then honing yourpresentation skills.
And we I guess we get to thispart of you know people ask who
wins, you know, is it the oneswith the best content or the
ones with the best presentation,and I like to refer to that, to
the steak and sizzle.
The steak is the content, butthat sizzle is that extra
(21:11):
special, maybe the secret saucethat really takes you to another
level in how you're able topresent your ideas.
Many times students will youknow, if they don't make it
forward, they'll watch the nextrounds and they'll think well,
we had the same idea.
But it's a matter of how youpresent that idea, and I think
(21:33):
there's such a value in that,whether you're in a case
competition or you're working ina job, you have to learn to
tell your story, and so thosewho can tell their story the
best tend to do well in allthings, but certainly in case
competitions, you know,sometimes teams will weave a
patient or a family memberthroughout their case.
(21:56):
But that has to be.
It can be an effective strategy, but it has to be done well.
It can't be just anafterthought.
They're at the beginning andthe end.
You really do have to weavethem throughout, but it is.
It is a.
It's a real balance betweengetting the content and the
presentation down to win.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You really, you really say it and you're right.
I mean, I remember some teamswho didn't make it past the
first round and then they heardthe others and I had some
conversations with them and whatthey said was we had the same
(22:37):
thing they did and it was like,yeah, probably.
But look, don't think it's notlike you see people, but it's
people who really kind ofbelieve and tell the story in a
very impactful way.
Absolutely.
You mentioned Warren Smedley,and so again another person I
(22:58):
recruit.
I met Warren at the UAB casecompetition and he's actually
doing site visits for us now too.
But Warren also lent a videothat he did to us and it's on
the CAMI website about tips andtechniques for students who are
in case competition.
(23:19):
So if there's any students outthere who want to learn the
secret sauce, warren kind oflooks at all his past years and
puts it together onto that video.
That's great.
I, you know, I think about thestudent cases that have won,
that I've seen over the pastcouple years and you're
absolutely right, it's thecontents there and the
(23:39):
presentation styles there andalso that chemistry.
You really kind of get a senseof that chemistry within the
team.
I've also kind of seen it.
When I've talked to those teamsthat went through afterwards,
you can hear how they'reinteracting with each other.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's neat , it is really.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, randa, this has been fabulous and I you know
again.
I just I'm a big admirer of youand what you do, and when you
talk about someone that's reallypassionate about what you do,
do it.
You've got your rules at theUAB case competition.
I've tried to bend those rulesat certain times.
(24:22):
Rules at the UAB casecompetition.
I've tried to bend those rulesat certain times and you've kind
of like reeled me back in, butyou stick to those rules and I
think you run an amazing casecompetition and the University
of Alabama at Birmingham.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, thank you, anthony, for inviting me to
participate, and I want to givea shout out to UAB Health System
, because without theirfinancial support and
sponsorship, you know, wewouldn't be able to continue
this competition, but they stillcan see the value that it
brings to the field of practice,so we're very appreciative of
(24:59):
their support.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Thank you for mentioning that, because they
have been over the years and Iknew you.
I know you also sometimes getsome additional support from
organizations, maybe sometimesfrom the case competition people
themselves, but if I'm awinning team, there's there's
more than just an attaboy withit.
What?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I know I totally forgot to mention.
after all, there's real moneyinvolved in these competitions
and as a student as I recall,that would have been really
helpful to have that whetheryou're an undergraduate or
graduate student, and we've beenfortunate to be able to provide
that nice, and I'm not naive.
(25:41):
I know that's why, ultimately,people come because there's the
chase of the money, but we dohope that a bigger benefit is
that they are able to networkwith these other students and
healthcare executives to makethis world a better place as
they become the next generationof healthcare leaders.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Oh, it's so true, and I totally agree with you.
I think the money's there as asweetener, but if you
participate in a casecompetition with the hopes of
winning the big prize of thefirst place, you're not gonna
win.
You really need to participatein the case competition with the
sense that, hey, I'm gonna worktogether with this team, we're
gonna come up and kind of workwith it.
The other thing I want tomention, though, too.
(26:23):
It's really important becauseit also costs money to get to
the case competition.
And I'm not just talking aboutentrance fees, which which,
relatively, are minor, but it'sthe travel costs of sending
students, the sometimes, youknow clothing costs that you've
got to do, or hotels and roomand stuff.
(26:44):
And I know I've spoke todifferent executives, and you
know I want to give a shout outto Tony Armada, who was a
graduate of the Xavier program,and I know Tony had made
significant donations to Xavierso that the team could go to the
case competitions.
And there's others that havekind of approached it as well
(27:07):
too.
So if you're in a school andyou want to send students to a
case competition, one of the bigsources for you to go to is
your alumni, because having yourstudents be represented, this
is a big thing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It is, and you know, as an alum of a program, you
know you want to be proud andyou know, especially when they
place.
You know it's also a way to getalums involved in providing
feedback on, you know,presentations and stuff, so not
giving them the ideas, but orthe solutions, but just the
feedback on how they could beeven more effective.
(27:43):
And it is a concern, though,because you know there's a lot
of opportunities to participate,but those add up each and every
one that you participate in andwe are.
We try to keep our costs downand not raise the registration
fee, but there are still thoseother costs that are associated,
(28:04):
and it is, you know, one ofthose things that the programs
really have to be thinking abouthow to provide those
opportunities, and what'shappened is that there are more
regional case competitions now,so you don't have to travel
maybe as far or as long thathave beginning to sprout up,
(28:27):
which I think is really neat.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, I almost kind of equated to like you've got
division one NCAA and you've gotdivision two and division three
and look you know, if you, ifyou can compete in those
regional ones, great.
And some of the regional onesare interesting because they're
approaching those casecompetitions in different ways
(28:49):
than what you are.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yes, there's a different.
I mean there's totallyin-person, you know virtual,
totally virtual, and then hybridopportunities.
So for and on almost anydifferent topic, whether it's
informatics, hospital operations, entrepreneurship, innovations,
and so it, depending on whatyour, the student's interests
(29:17):
are.
There's a case competition thatwould match up with that.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I was thinking, there's interprofessional
education, exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Exactly Case competition.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And then Trinity looks at innovation with their
case, competition RightPhenomenal.
And then you even have OhioState that does first years.
Yes, exactly, you know which isinteresting.
So, but there's there'scertainly a fondness in my heart
for the UABQs.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well, we appreciate your support and your continued
participation with us.
Anthony, Take care my pleasure.
Well, Melissa, thank you very much for that
introduction and a warm welcometoday to Randall Hall from the
University of Alabama atBirmingham.
I've got to know Randall wellover the past decade and going
to the UAB case competition.
But before we get into that,Randall, would you mind just
going through a little bit aboutyour health care journey?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Absolutely.
Thanks, anthony.
I've been so fortunate.
I went to undergraduate in theUniversity of Alabama in
Tuscaloosa and then came to UABto do my master's in health
administration and an MBA an MBAand then took off and did my
administrative residency andthen worked in a group practice
(00:53):
a health system, a grouppractice, and then a quality
improvement organization forNorth and South Carolina.
And then we decided to movecloser to our homes and so ended
up in Birmingham at UAB, thanksto a colleague of mine who we
had done our residencies at thesame place.
It's a small world, so thenetworking helped.
(01:14):
And so I came back to UAB andfor the first 14 years really
worked primarily with the MSHAprogram, running the operations
and residency and internshipplacements, and about a decade
ago took on a broader rolewithin the department, working
(01:34):
with our alumni.
But it's been nice because anumber of those students I've
recruited over the years now arerunning health systems all over
the country, so we tap intotheir expertise on lots of
different occasions.
And throughout my time as afaculty member and working with
the MSHA program I've really,you know, stayed connected to
(01:57):
the field of practice.
And so when we kind of came upwith this idea for the case
competition.
It's allowed me to stayconnected to the health care
world, which then is where weget cases, and has allowed me to
stay in that world.
So it's been a lot of fun andgosh.
(02:19):
Almost 23 years at UAB, sowe've been doing the case
competition.
We're working on our 19th thisyear.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And if I'm not mistaken you were.
I don't think the UAB casecompetition was the first
because if I'm correct in here,it was the National Association
of Health Services ExecutiveCase Competition, Absolutely.
So talk about that, because Iknow that really had an impact
on UAB doing this.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
For sure, and you know we, the NAHSE, has the
longest standing health carecase competition.
I think they're working ontwenty nine years this fall and
we had a team participate inthat and they placed third place
.
I believe it was and as we weredebriefing the only thing that
(03:10):
they they said it was the bestexperience they had had while
they were in graduate school.
It allowed them to actuallyapply what they've learned in to
the case and the result oftheir hard work was that they
finished third.
And the result of their hardwork was that they finished
third and as the only thing theysaid is that we wish all of our
(03:33):
classmates could haveparticipated in such an event,
so it kind of planted the seedand about a year after that is
when we started.
So it has been a neat evolutionof case competitions has been a
neat evolution of casecompetitions.
I guess we were the only twofor a long time and now there's
about 30 different casecompetitions, so it's really
grown over the years.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
It is crazy, and CAMI does track the winners of the
actually the top three programsof a variety of I don't know if
we hit all 30 in there, but ofthe case competitions around the
country, and it's on ourwebsite for any of our listeners
who want to take a look at it.
But the UAB case competitionand I'll use other people's
(04:18):
words in this, and I've heardthe UAB case competition
referred to as the Super Bowl ofcase competitions, case
competition referred to as theSuper Bowl of case competitions,
and I'm going to ask you, whydo people say that?
What makes the UAB casecompetition so special?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Wow, that's humbling.
You know we couldn't do itwithout the participation of all
of these programs.
We do try to listen, we getfeedback and try to make
adjustments each year.
Some are just minor tweaks,other times it's bigger changes
and maybe that's part and parcelwhy?
Maybe it's considered thatWe've been fortunate that over
the years, so as of the finishof the 18th competition, we've
(05:04):
had 67 different teamsparticipate Some of them are no
longer CAMI accredited andthat's the requirement for our
competition but 67 differentschools and during that time
we've had about 24 schools thathave placed in the top three
(05:24):
over those years and if you addin the semifinalists and
finalists it's close.
It's about 45 teams.
So I hope that maybe part of itis.
You know, you don't know thatevery team is going to win every
year, so maybe people keepcoming back hoping that this
will be their year People keepcoming back hoping that this
(05:45):
will be their year, randa.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
One of the things that I remember is my alma mater
, which actually participated ina few case competitions.
The first time they went downit was the feeling like, oh,
we're going to go and we'regoing to win this case
competition.
We have no doubt about it.
And they learned very quicklyhow skilled the students are in
(06:09):
there and practiced andresearched and I think that
really kind of comes out withhow people approach sending a
team to the competition.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I was just going to say Warren Smedley, who's
actually been a presentationadvisor for us as long as we've
had that kind of component.
A presentation advisor for usas long as we've had that kind
of component.
He has been able to watch theteams evolve in their
presentation skills and it'samazing how skillful these teams
(06:39):
are now from the time when wefirst began.
So kudos to all of the teamsand the schools for really
preparing their teams.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
And you know just around that, rand, as you say,
that I've attended, I think,almost every case competition
since I became CEO.
I might have missed one, I'mnot quite sure if I did, but
when I'm there with otherexecutives we all just kind of
shake our heads and just say I'mglad I'm not in health care
management anymore, becausethere's no way I can compete
(07:06):
with these students more,because there's no way I can
compete with these students.
You mentioned something at thevery beginning where you kind of
gave a little bit of your bioon what you were doing and you
kind of touched on it againnetworking.
I think you know you go intothe case competition thinking,
okay, I really need to learn thesubject, I know the and you get
(07:28):
your.
You know you really get yournose down in your books and kind
of pull the informationtogether and understand.
But the side benefit and thehuge benefit is networking.
Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
That is one of the biggest benefits of
participating in any casecompetition, paying in any case
competition the fact that you'reable to.
You know you're there tocompete but yet there's.
It's always.
It's certainly a networkingwith the other teams and the
students and the faculty fromthose programs.
But even bigger than that isthe exposure and opportunities
(08:05):
to meet healthcare executivesfrom around the country.
You know we've had close to 200different judges helping us in
the case competitions over theyears and they represent all
kinds of different companies,depending on what the case is.
And for the students I mean,even a bigger side of, I guess,
(08:25):
side benefit is that we've hadseveral at least that I know of
several different occasionswhere the students presented and
then at the end of thecompetition or sometime later
they actually received an offerfor an internship or a
fellowship from someone that wason that was judging them.
(08:45):
So it's really neat.
You know kind of how that hashappened over the years.
And what I was remembering lastnight is also our judges are
networking with one another andwe've even had a more junior
judge actually get to know asenior executive and then go
work for him.
So it's been beneficial for thestudents as well as even the
(09:09):
judges.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So it's been beneficial for the students as
well as even the judges.
So you know, you've kind of hiton a couple of points and you
could see me smiling, but ourlisteners can't see me smiling,
because I have actuallyrecruited students from the case
competition to come work forCami and they've done an
incredibly great job, becauseyou see the best of the best of
the programs that are there andthe level of talent and skill
(09:31):
and commitment, it's justamazing.
And then I've also recruitedjudges to be on Cami's board or
committees.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
There's one currently , I believe.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Networking happens all around.
And, Randall, one of the partsthat I've always kind of found
interesting, and you seem likeyou do this almost every year,
but you actually have someformer case competition
participants coming back asjudges too.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And you know we got some feedback at one point
earlier in the competition thatwe had too many seasoned
executives and that we probablyshould have a more balance.
And that's where we go back tosome of our teams that have won.
Primarily, we've gone fromthose teams, but we've also
pulled from teams a member of ateam that didn't win necessarily
(10:31):
but had content, expertise inwhatever the case might be.
So, yeah, that's a side benefitas well that we hope to bring
back those amazing team membersand let them judge on the other
side.
They've also then said it'sdefinitely harder as a student
on that side, but it's also youknow you're pulling for.
(10:52):
You know, as a judge it's.
It also brings some differentchallenges because all the teams
are really good and so how doyou really decide which team
moves forward?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So, yeah, I've always been fascinated with the cases
that you've had at the casecompetition and when I, when I
first started at CAMI, mypredecessor, margaret Margaret
Jones, said to me I'm sorry,margaret Schulte said to me
Anthony, you know, stay in touchwith Miranda, you might be able
(11:27):
to provide her with either somejudges to look at or even some
ideas on cases.
So we we have worked togetherover the past on it and to me
one of the memorable ones was Iwas on the board at Bon Secours
and a case competition.
It was the case where you kindof looked at the community
benefits.
I've also sat on others thatwere also kind of fascinating to
(11:50):
me around that, but you've beenat this game far longer than I.
What have been some of thecases that the students had that
you really felt were wow, thesewere really interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I have each year.
I love the case, you know,because we really try to target
a subject area that's reallychallenging the health care
landscape and so we've beenfortunate to kind of hit things
as they were really being anissue.
(12:22):
Me know, when they get in theirresidency or fellowship or new
job, that oftentimes they'vebeen asked to do a project
surrounded a particular casecompetition that they topic,
that they worked on.
But when I think back, you knowthe Aetna CVS managed care
strategy in Delaware was one ofthe most fascinating case topics
(12:48):
.
We hadn't done as many aroundmanaged care and this was a
particularly interesting one.
I have to say kudos to JillianJoyner and Michael Cole for them
bringing together such afascinating case.
I also thought this year's caseon pediatric behavioral health
(13:09):
was really timely given thealmost I think we would call it
an epidemic in behavioral healthissues for children around the
world, around the country, andEmily Koudelka was the author of
that, and what we try to do isget judges from broad
(13:30):
backgrounds and my hope is thatoftentimes they might end up
being a case author for us.
One of those was Tom Grono whowhen he was at UPMC he had a
case for us about the traumacenter and the competition
against Allegheny, and that wasan incredible case as well.
(13:51):
So we've been fortunate to havelots of you know, different
types of cases and I thinkthat's one of the neat things
that we try to do is, you know,have it not you know we have a
lot of hospital operations, butgroup practice, behavioral
health, long-term care,palliative care, different areas
(14:11):
that you know.
Again, that are current topics,that are, you know, challenges
faced by healthcare executives.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
You know, I think back to that CVS Aetna case and
Mike Cole, who was the presidentof the region, the healthcare
region for Aetna and Jillian whowas vice president the region,
the health care region for Aetnaand Jillian who was vice
president.
I mean their commitment to theprocess and then they were there
in the final rounds listeningto the students and gathering
(14:41):
ideas and thoughts and we'rejust really kind of thrilled
that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yes, yes, and I guess that's our hope is that each
year the host organization willtake the ideas from all of these
teams and be able to implementthem.
There are amazing ideas from allthe teams, not just those who
place in the top three or topsix, three or top six, and we've
(15:14):
been fortunate that in a numberof instances the organization
has invited the first place teamto their organization and asked
them to present their findingsor recommendations to their
senior leadership group.
In fact, Community HospitalCorporation invited the team
that won that year to their.
They did it was a virtualpresentation, but they ended up
(15:35):
using one of theirrecommendations that they had
not thought about prior tolearning, hearing it from the
team and which I mean.
That to me, is likeimplementing one of the
strategies is so cool.
To me is like implementing oneof the strategies is so cool.
We've had others that have beeninvited, you know, back to do
virtual presentations.
We're hoping there was asuggestion that this year's case
(15:59):
winner might present at theNational Children's Hospital
Association meeting.
We're hoping that might stillcome to fruition.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That was an exceptional case and I think you
know to me listening in on that.
When I was there, I mean to seethe executives that attended
from different hospitals,healthcare systems around the
country was crazy nuts.
I mean you had people fromChildren's of Philadelphia, you
had, you know all over the place.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, they were all over.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So you know I.
So if I'm a student and I go,hey, there's a case competition
available.
The first thought in my mind isoh my God, I've got my
schoolwork that I have to do,I've got my part time job, I've
got a little bit of a sociallife that I'm trying to
accomplish and I've got all thisother work that I'm going to do
(17:05):
.
I don you make the ability tobe seen by executives around the
country far outweigh thatlittle bit of loss of personal
time.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Absolutely.
I totally agree the skilldevelopment that you gain.
You hone in on your evaluation,analytical skills, but also your
presentation skills.
That I mean, as I mentionedearlier, that those have really
gotten stellar over the you know, almost two decades we've been
(17:36):
doing this and you know it's onething to present in front of
your classmates and each other,but there is a whole different
level of the bar has been raisedonce you're going from
preliminary to semifinal tofinals and it's you know, I
think, back on some of the teamsthat that that I've seen and
(17:59):
you know it's a bondingexperience within that team and
we hope that that's somethingthat they take with them for a
lifetime with that team.
But it also is certainly, aswe've mentioned, potentially an
entree into jobs or fellowships,and even beyond that you will
(18:20):
more than likely work with orfor some of the people that
you've met over the years inthese various case competitions.
So it's as we always say, it'sa really small world and I think
the students find out how smallit is once they, you know, they
come to a case competition andthen they're interviewing for an
(18:40):
internship or a fellowship,just you know, within that same
time frame or the next year.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And you see it on some of the students' resumes.
Yes, yeah, you know,participant in the UAB case
competition or placed first orplaced second.
You know, you see those thingsout there and for the executives
that are out there that means alot.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Exactly yes.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So I'm a student.
Let's pretend I'm a student andI'm going geez.
This case competition ideasounds like a great idea.
I want to be part of the UABcase competition.
Let me give Randa a call andask her how do I get to be part
of the UAB case competition?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, first and foremost, you go to a CAMI
accredited program and in theresidential format, so the
executive formats, it's just awhole different level.
So we limit it to theresidential format.
So that's, that's the firstthing.
And then it's a matter of youknow getting your team together
(19:43):
from your school, and schools doit a variety of ways.
I look back over the years,probably the most common way is
students expressing interest andthen their faculty members
picking the teams from thestudents that were interested
and typically they're looking atwho's our best finance person,
(20:05):
who's the best at problemsolving and presentation skills.
And then it's working together,working a lot.
We asked the teams did you work40 hours, 40 to 120 or 120 plus
?
And most of them are over 40hours during that time frame,
(20:26):
closer to probably 80.
And so you're right, it'sbalancing all of those competing
interests.
But if the ones that win arethe ones who really do spend
that time, you know.
But first you know getting thecontent and the evidence based
rationale for why they've chosena particular recommendation,
(20:50):
and then honing yourpresentation skills.
And we I guess we get to thispart of you know people ask who
wins, you know, is it the oneswith the best content or the
ones with the best presentation,and I like to refer to that, to
the steak and sizzle.
The steak is the content, butthat sizzle is that extra
(21:11):
special, maybe the secret saucethat really takes you to another
level in how you're able topresent your ideas.
Many times students will youknow, if they don't make it
forward, they'll watch the nextrounds and they'll think well,
we had the same idea.
But it's a matter of how youpresent that idea, and I think
(21:33):
there's such a value in that,whether you're in a case
competition or you're working ina job, you have to learn to
tell your story, and so thosewho can tell their story the
best tend to do well in allthings, but certainly in case
competitions, you know,sometimes teams will weave a
patient or a family memberthroughout their case.
(21:56):
But that has to be.
It can be an effective strategy, but it has to be done well.
It can't be just anafterthought.
They're at the beginning andthe end.
You really do have to weavethem throughout, but it is.
It is a.
It's a real balance betweengetting the content and the
presentation down to win.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
You really, you really say it and you're right.
I mean, I remember some teamswho didn't make it past the
first round and then they heardthe others and I had some
conversations with them and whatthey said was we had the same
(22:37):
thing they did and it was like,yeah, probably.
But look, don't think it's notlike you see people, but it's
people who really kind ofbelieve and tell the story in a
very impactful way.
Absolutely.
You mentioned Warren Smedley,and so again another person I
(22:58):
recruit.
I met Warren at the UAB casecompetition and he's actually
doing site visits for us now too.
But Warren also lent a videothat he did to us and it's on
the CAMI website about tips andtechniques for students who are
in case competition.
(23:19):
So if there's any students outthere who want to learn the
secret sauce, warren kind oflooks at all his past years and
puts it together onto that video.
That's great.
I, you know, I think about thestudent cases that have won,
that I've seen over the pastcouple years and you're
absolutely right, it's thecontents there and the
(23:39):
presentation styles there andalso that chemistry.
You really kind of get a senseof that chemistry within the
team.
I've also kind of seen it.
When I've talked to those teamsthat went through afterwards,
you can hear how they'reinteracting with each other.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's neat , it is really.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, randa, this has been fabulous and I you know
again.
I just I'm a big admirer of youand what you do, and when you
talk about someone that's reallypassionate about what you do,
do it.
You've got your rules at theUAB case competition.
I've tried to bend those rulesat certain times.
(24:22):
Rules at the UAB casecompetition.
I've tried to bend those rulesat certain times and you've kind
of like reeled me back in, butyou stick to those rules and I
think you run an amazing casecompetition and the University
of Alabama at Birmingham.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, thank you, anthony, for inviting me to
participate, and I want to givea shout out to UAB Health System
, because without theirfinancial support and
sponsorship, you know, wewouldn't be able to continue
this competition, but they stillcan see the value that it
brings to the field of practice,so we're very appreciative of
(24:59):
their support.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Thank you for mentioning that, because they
have been over the years and Iknew you.
I know you also sometimes getsome additional support from
organizations, maybe sometimesfrom the case competition people
themselves, but if I'm awinning team, there's there's
more than just an attaboy withit.
What?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I know I totally forgot to mention.
after all, there's real moneyinvolved in these competitions
and as a student as I recall,that would have been really
helpful to have that whetheryou're an undergraduate or
graduate student, and we've beenfortunate to be able to provide
that nice, and I'm not naive.
(25:41):
I know that's why, ultimately,people come because there's the
chase of the money, but we dohope that a bigger benefit is
that they are able to networkwith these other students and
healthcare executives to makethis world a better place as
they become the next generationof healthcare leaders.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Oh, it's so true, and I totally agree with you.
I think the money's there as asweetener, but if you
participate in a casecompetition with the hopes of
winning the big prize of thefirst place, you're not gonna
win.
You really need to participatein the case competition with the
sense that, hey, I'm gonna worktogether with this team, we're
gonna come up and kind of workwith it.
The other thing I want tomention, though, too.
(26:23):
It's really important becauseit also costs money to get to
the case competition.
And I'm not just talking aboutentrance fees, which which,
relatively, are minor, but it'sthe travel costs of sending
students, the sometimes, youknow clothing costs that you've
got to do, or hotels and roomand stuff.
(26:44):
And I know I've spoke todifferent executives, and you
know I want to give a shout outto Tony Armada, who was a
graduate of the Xavier program,and I know Tony had made
significant donations to Xavierso that the team could go to the
case competitions.
And there's others that havekind of approached it as well
(27:07):
too.
So if you're in a school andyou want to send students to a
case competition, one of the bigsources for you to go to is
your alumni, because having yourstudents be represented, this
is a big thing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It is, and you know, as an alum of a program, you
know you want to be proud andyou know, especially when they
place.
You know it's also a way to getalums involved in providing
feedback on, you know,presentations and stuff, so not
giving them the ideas, but orthe solutions, but just the
feedback on how they could beeven more effective.
(27:43):
And it is a concern, though,because you know there's a lot
of opportunities to participate,but those add up each and every
one that you participate in andwe are.
We try to keep our costs downand not raise the registration
fee, but there are still thoseother costs that are associated,
(28:04):
and it is, you know, one ofthose things that the programs
really have to be thinking abouthow to provide those
opportunities, and what'shappened is that there are more
regional case competitions now,so you don't have to travel
maybe as far or as long thathave beginning to sprout up,
(28:27):
which I think is really neat.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, I almost kind of equated to like you've got
division one NCAA and you've gotdivision two and division three
and look you know, if you, ifyou can compete in those
regional ones, great.
And some of the regional onesare interesting because they're
approaching those casecompetitions in different ways
(28:49):
than what you are.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yes, there's a different.
I mean there's totallyin-person, you know virtual,
totally virtual, and then hybridopportunities.
So for and on almost anydifferent topic, whether it's
informatics, hospital operations, entrepreneurship, innovations,
and so it, depending on whatyour, the student's interests
(29:17):
are.
There's a case competition thatwould match up with that.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I was thinking, there's interprofessional
education, exactly.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Exactly Case competition.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And then Trinity looks at innovation with their
case, competition RightPhenomenal.
And then you even have OhioState that does first years.
Yes, exactly, you know which isinteresting.
So, but there's there'scertainly a fondness in my heart
for the UABQs.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Well, we appreciate your support and your continued
participation with us.
Anthony, Take care my pleasure.
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