February 5, 2025 • 22 mins
Curious about the secrets to successful healthcare leadership? Join us for an inspiring conversation with Denise Brooks-Williams, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of Henry Ford Health, where she leads operations across a 13-hospital health system. With a distinguished career shaped by expertise and passion, Denise brings invaluable wisdom to this session.
From her first steps in a summer enrichment program to earning her degree from the prestigious CAHME-accredited Master’s program at the University of Michigan, Denise’s journey offers rich lessons for aspiring leaders. She’ll share her experiences with fellowships, discuss the essential leadership skills needed in today’s ever-evolving healthcare industry, and provide strategies for overcoming challenges.
At the heart of her story is a commitment to service, empathy, and discovering your ‘why’—a cornerstone for building a purposeful and impactful career in healthcare leadership.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Melissa, thank you very much for that introduction
and a really warm welcome todayto Denise Brooks-Williams.
Denise and I kind of go back alittle bit further back when you
were doing a lot with theNational Association of Health
Services Executives and I waswith Aramark and it was one of
the organizations that wesponsored from Aramark and I
think we got a little familiarwith each other then.
(00:22):
We got a little familiar witheach other then.
But I really feel like I'mgoing to the well a lot to you
recently with both your role atHenry Ford and where I want to
start with is you're aUniversity of Michigan grad and
I know that the CAMI educationalsession that you did with us
kind of talked about some of thethings that you saw at Michigan
(00:45):
, some of the experiences thatyou had, the Summer Enrichment
Program and the strongfoundation that the University
of Michigan gave you to startyour career.
So, denise, welcome, and I'llask you to kind of talk about
that experience first.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you, anthony, and I do agree.
We have the benefit of havingknown each other for a number of
years and Cammie, as you said,really has come to the
University of Michigan and I'vebeen privileged because I've sat
not only as the chair of ouralumni board but I now serve on
the Griffith LeadershipInstitute.
So I've been able to participatein those conversations and
(01:23):
share my story of being a summerenrichment program student and,
quite honestly, as I sharedthen, it really did shape my
career in that it gave me theexposure to a leader.
I worked at that time withLarry Warren, who's now retired
but still someone that I stay intouch with.
He was at Michigan Medicine atthe time and spending that
(01:45):
summer with him really codifiedfor me what healthcare
administration was, because,even though people said the
words and I kind of understoodit at that time, I'll be honest,
I had no idea who ran ahospital or exactly what that
role might look like.
But SCP, quite honestly, as itwas designed, gave you that
internship opportunity, thatsummer experience which led me
(02:08):
to apply to the university forthe master's program.
I was accepted, you know, wentthrough the program and really
have stayed connected all theseyears, I think in large part
because of that pipelineexperience that I had.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, you know, university of Michigan is
probably one of the granddaddiesof the health care management
approach, I think, if not thefirst, one of the first
universities to offer healthcare management, and was also
intimately involved with thefounding of CAMI back in 1968.
You know, there areuniversities and there are great
(02:46):
universities and I think whatMichigan has done in healthcare
management and the things likethe Summer Enrichment Program
has really kind of solidifiedits role in that area and has
continued to kind of grow inthat area.
Denise, so you went to Michigan, you became a grad.
So, denise, you went.
So you went to Michigan, youbecame a grad.
(03:06):
Then you got out and I'massuming you did a fellowship or
a residency.
You know, I think back in theday we were just calling them
residencies.
But tell me about thatexperience how did you look for
your residency?
You know, what did that do foryou, kind of moving forward?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes, so definitely.
So I went from.
I was an undergraduate studentat the university of Michigan.
I've worked like in thedepartment of epidemiology, done
some things in psychology, so alittle bit of sense of
healthcare, but definitely notenough to have confidence upon
graduation to go into a job.
So it was actually a fellowshipback then.
Upon graduation to go into ajob.
(03:47):
So it was actually a fellowshipback then.
And I was fortunate because wehad on-job kind of mentoring
opportunities where bothprofessionals would come of
course to talk to us about theprofession, but in addition to
that they would sometimes talkabout their organizations and
the fellowships that theyoffered.
So Dave Spivey was one of thoseleaders that came and Dave
worked at the time with MercyHealth Services and he kind of
(04:08):
mentioned hey, we have afellowship, Is that something
you might be interested in?
I knew a few things right that Iwanted to be in the Detroit
area that's where I'm from.
I don't know that I really hadthe words equity back then, but
I definitely grew up on the eastside of the city, which had a
lot of health, you know,challenges, and so I wanted to
(04:28):
be able to serve and be in acommunity that I thought I could
give back.
So Mercy fit that criteria.
You know, in the sense thatthey at that time were situated
in the city of Detroit.
They were headquartered in asuburb not too far away.
So that's where I applied andfortunately Mercy was at the
early end.
You know now the process offellowships have been kind of
(04:50):
normalized, like the interviewsare really early and everybody's
really finding out in the fall.
That wasn't the case back then.
It kind of could spread all theway to graduation.
But needless to say Mercy wasearly.
So I found out that January andI really didn't pursue any
other fellowships.
So thank goodness it worked out.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But that's where I did it.
You know it's interesting,denise.
You know you kind of mentionedthat I remember when I was going
for my fellowship.
It was the same thing it was.
They were offered across theyear and I think I got offered
(05:27):
my role in May, which began inJuly.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So yeah, oh, definitely it was a rolling,
yeah, rolling calendar.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, what are one of the what are a couple of the
things from your fellowship?
This podcast is really kind offocused on students and students
looking to kind of advance intheir careers.
What are a couple of the thingsthat really kind of stick out
from your fellowship experience?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean, the beautiful thing is, honestly, just on
Sunday I was at dinner with somefirst years at the University
of Michigan and, as you know,they're going into their first
summer.
You know kind of experience formany of them, and we talked
about fellowships as well andwhat I said to them honestly all
these years is still true thatit is a chance of a lifetime.
(06:15):
I was almost promoting it rightand encouraging that they
consider doing it Because, asyou know, as a student and even
if you're coming back with somehealthcare experience, the
profession changes so fast.
So the thing I remember aboutmy fellowship was just the
change and transition that theorganization was going through
and how fun it was, but at thesame time a little bit scary,
(06:38):
because I was like, oh wow, youknow, this was the era of
physician hospital organizationskind of being conceptualized.
There was discussion aroundMedicaid being managed and,
having managed care, come intothe Medicaid space.
So you were still, of course, astudent right of the profession
, but you were working, you know.
So one of the things I just kindof remember was the excitement
(07:00):
of all the different things thatyou were able to see and be
exposed to, and that's part ofwhy I try to encourage students
today to consider that, you know, as a part of their career
journey, because it allowed meto be exposed to many, many
aspects of the profession thathave helped to this day with my
ability to have an understanding.
The second big thing for myfellowship that I actually
(07:23):
shared with them on Sunday wasthe empathy and this perspective
that it takes everyone in theorganization to actually take
care of patients, and I wasprivileged that the team that I
worked with really expressedthat right.
So, from the frontline teammembers, those that were in the
support services, of course, ourphysicians and our nurses
(07:44):
they're all important and Ithink you can go into the
fellowship sometimes with thehierarchical mindset You're
going in to be an executive andyou can the foundation of really
how we deliver care.
So I definitely remember thatmessaging coming from my mentors
and honestly, it's somethingthat I carry today that I'm very
(08:07):
intentional about knowing allof the team and speaking to all
of the people that are takingcare of our patients and
families.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Got it so true.
You brought back some memoriesfor me of my own experience and
that same part which was you'dbe at board meetings and you'd
get to really kind of rub elbowslet's not say rub elbows, come
close to rubbing elbows withsome of the leaders of the
community and then, on the otherhand, you would then go out and
(08:35):
you'd be interviewing floorpeople about how to kind of make
some of the changes and whatwas going on in the organization
.
So it really does require thatsense of getting everyone's
voice and understanding what theimpact of a decision would be.
Talk about what your typicalday would look like at this
point.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So my typical day today is Soho use.
Today it's a very cold day inMichigan, so I woke up early to
an incident command to confirmthat we would have the heat that
we need to be able to operatein our sites, that we have the
staff, most importantly becauseof course, when you have schools
(09:17):
out, it affects families, andthose families are families that
are trying to take care of ourpatients.
So really, you know, trying tounderstand, do we have the right
staffing to be able to have ouroperations go on as they need
to?
So it really is a situationalawareness.
Typically, it's how the daystarts.
Then I have a lot of meetingsand those meetings can be around
our strategy.
(09:37):
We are a system that's forming.
As you know, we've had thisgreat joint venture that became
a reality for us in October of24.
So still a lot of integrationwork is going on.
So I spend a lot of my timewith our new colleagues from
Ascension looking at how weintegrate and become one Henry
Ford Health.
(09:58):
So lots of work going on inthat space and a lot of it is
really around culture right.
So right now I'm in the fieldas it would be, so going to a
lot of the new sites that wehave, meeting teams, meeting our
physicians, understanding thecommunities that we're serving.
So it's a lot of external focusas well, as, you know, being
(10:19):
focused on running the business.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's funny you reminded me of.
You know, the role of the CEOis to make sure you turn the
lights on in the morning, andthat's if you miss that.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
That's right, I mean yeah, it's like the critical
orientation.
I still receive kind of thehuddle reports, of course, from
each of the sites.
So, understanding again, whatare they dealing with, right?
So do we have somevulnerabilities that we're
dealing with?
We know, this winter, as anexample, the respiratory
conditions are, you know, kindof causing a lot of constraints
(10:52):
in our emergency departments,and so I'm always, you know,
having that situationalawareness so that I can be
supportive of the teams that I'msupporting.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You mentioned and I won't get into a lot of details
with it, but you mentioned thearrangement with Ascension and I
know you're speaking just as alittle plug here for the
American College of HealthcareExecutives, their annual
Congress, which will be inHouston this year in March.
You are speaking at a sessionon that.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about what that session is
(11:23):
going to preview?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Absolutely so we're going to.
We're very early in the jointventure, of course, and so what
we want to talk about in thesession is really just culture
and how we are approachingintegration.
There's a bit of uniqueness, Iguess, about this relationship
in that the assets that wereoriginally a part of Ascension
Health will remain Catholic, andso we'll talk a little bit
about that as well.
(11:45):
Right, how do you have thiskind of faith-based and secular
system come together, you know,under one umbrella and really
have a common value set thatyou're going to lead by, and
that's how it starts, right?
So we felt we're so early inthis.
It'll be myself and our chiefstrategy officer and we're going
to talk really about that.
(12:05):
How are we forming strategy?
How are we coming together?
What are some of the early, youknow, signs of success that
we're experiencing, and what arethe things that we're very
optimistic that will come in thefuture?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Well, and you have, like you said, you have the
experience of going throughmergers and relationships like
that in the past that you hadearly in your career.
That still help you at thispoint.
So absolutely.
The focus on culture isinteresting.
I'm reminded of some of themergers that I went through and
the comment that the CEO isculture.
Each strategy for lunch andbreakfast and dinner.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Exactly and just keeps eating.
It just keeps eating.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Oh, thank you, denise .
On your LinkedIn profile todayand we're recording this the day
after Martin Luther King Dayyou, you put a quote that I just
thought was so touching, and itwas a service is the rent we
pay for the privilege of livingon earth.
(13:06):
Service is the rent we pay forthe privilege of living on earth
, and that, that quote, I think,is mostly attributed to, uh,
shirley Chisholm uh was the thefirst woman to run for president
, uh, on a major political party, uh back.
(13:28):
I don't remember when, but itwas certainly like 20, 25 years
ago or something.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah, probably.
You're right About 25 years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But your, your, your life and your career and what
you do is all kind of related tothat.
This wasn't just oh, it's anice quote Let me kind of put on
here, but I think this reallykind of drives you, and you
you've done it with the nationalassociation of service
executives really kind of drivesyou, and you've done it with
the National Association ofService Executives, you've done
(13:59):
it with NCHL Tell me why, why doyou spend so much of your time
and energy kind of in thatservice mentality that is
broader than your role at ahospital?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and I appreciate you lifting that
yesterday a very profound dayright In terms of the MLK
celebration, and I chose thequote because, quite honestly,
our focus at the health systemwas just on that right service
and service beyond right.
Many of us are, you know, seeourselves as servant leaders
because we're in a serviceindustry, but I have always
(14:30):
taken very seriously this fact.
You know we're here for alimited period of time, you know
, doing what I hope right, we'vebeen kind of ordained or placed
here to do, and for me that hasreally been about serving
others and making an impact, soreally having a legacy that's
broader than just the job maybethat you did, but that you
(14:51):
sought to really make thingsbetter and close the gap.
So a lot of my work outside ofmy role is in that space.
Right, I have a particularinterest in youth in urban areas
and really having access foreveryone, be, you know, as equal
and available as possible.
So with the time I have, whichisn't as much as it used to be,
(15:13):
I do try to be intentional aboutreally connecting with
organizations and evenindividuals that see things
bigger than themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, and you've done that through some really kind
of neat approaches.
I mean Michigan Governor's TaskForce on Racial Disparities and
your participation in there,nchl, your participation at ACHA
, even the stuff you do withCAMI and again I'm very thankful
for you allowing me to go tothe well so many different times
with you.
But I think all of those thingsare ways to give back and kind
(15:44):
of talk to the people about theimportance of serving your
community and where you kind ofmove from here.
So I think there's two partswith here.
One of them is your leadershipcolors, the approach that you
take with those organizations.
But your background is such asignificant part, where you grew
up, what you did, and that alsokind of influences the impact
(16:06):
that you seek to make.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So, again, a lot of people are listening to this
podcast, tend to be students whoare either contemplating going
into healthcare management orare currently in a graduate
program and trying to figure outwhere their next steps are, or
even people who are inhealthcare trying to figure out
how do I grow and where do Ikind of move up on there.
Well, you know, what advicewould you give a student or a
(16:32):
young careerist if you would isprobably a better way to say it
a young careerist who wants tokind of make an impact, what
advice would you give them?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, and I'm privileged to have those
conversations a lot, and Ireally do start with right know
your why.
You know why, why.
Why health care you knowtypically these are bright,
brilliant, early careers, as yousaid, that have a lot of
choices and options, right.
And so I think when you knowyour why kind of anchors you and
(17:00):
how you're going to grow, whereyou're going to go, you know
who you want to serve, becausethere might be a lot of options.
Today there's consulting,there's, you know, there's
pharma, there's insurance,there's the delivery side of
healthcare.
So I think the first thing iskind of your, why, why were you
drawn to this and what do youreally want your imprint to be
is one of the things I try toexplore and just have them like.
(17:22):
You don't have to share it.
It's not a homework assignmentthat I have to see, but you
yourself, right, should knowkind of what you're doing and
why you're doing it.
And I think, once you know that, it does help you to me to some
degree to be a bit calm aboutwhat roles you take, the pace at
which you may progress in yourcareer, because when you don't,
and you're just, I want to beright, fill in the blank I want
(17:45):
to be the CEO, I want to be thevice president.
Not rooted in really why you'redoing it and the joy that you
seek from doing it can make thatreally more a chase than a
journey.
I think it becomes a journeywhen you kind of say, hey, I
want to serve or I want topartner, I want to eliminate
health disparities, I want tomake it easier for people to
(18:07):
access care, I want to lower thecost of care.
You know, whatever that, why is?
It really creates your ownpersonal true north and I think
it then makes the opportunitiesthat you seek more clear.
It helps you to understand whensomething's not fulfilling that
, why.
So maybe the you know theimpetus for you to maybe move
and seek something else.
(18:27):
So that to me, really is thefoundational piece that I try to
have in the conversation.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
It's really something I know when I interview people
and you ask that question andyou go.
So what do you want to do?
And they'll go, I'll doanything.
And it's like, well, that's notthe right person to have in the
organization.
What's your mission?
What kind of drives you, whatkind of motivates you kind of
moving forward?
Are there, you know again, alot of changes in healthcare and
(18:56):
technology right now.
Are there skills that you wouldsay to a student or a young
career, some certain skills thatyou think might be more
important to attain at thislevel?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I mean, and I really separate them right.
So I use the old adageeverything we learned in
kindergarten is going to likecarry us for the rest of our
days, right.
So be polite, share.
Got to play well in the sandboxwith others.
We know that that evolves to becan you work in a matrix
organization.
(19:45):
So if you remember that adagethat you got to honor and play
with everyone, well, I thinkthat basic skill set, honestly,
I say, if you have those thenyou are going to probably do
well in management andinstitutions like the University
of Michigan and those that canbe accredited, they give that to
us right, so you're getting thetechnical piece, but we know a
(20:07):
lot of times the leadershipdecision.
Quite honestly, we know thatyou're technically competent,
you know, you know the ins andouts of the profession.
The differentiators are howwell do you connect?
You know with people, how welldo you understand?
Having that you know kind ofemotional intelligence to
(20:28):
understand when to act and whennot to act, listening more than
talking.
So it really is that basicskill set that I really
emphasize people being connectedwith.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Denise.
So true, and you know it's areally good point is?
You know?
There's a lot of changes goingon in the tech market right now,
and I think you need to betechnically savvy in them to
understand what it means to runan organization, take advantage
of it, but to say, oh, I want tobecome an expert in AI and that
will help me.
You know, if that kind of fitswithin your why, that's true.
(21:01):
Now, one of the things let mekind of talk about this what did
you learn in kindergarten?
I'll kind of share somethingwith you.
One of them was I couldn't tiemy shoes in kindergarten that
big big thing but the personnext to me was really good at
tying shoes.
On the other hand, I was prettygood at printing at that point.
I don't know why, but so Iremember I helped him print his
(21:25):
name on his card and he helpedme tie my shoes so I can.
And it's that collaborationthat really is still important
in health care right now too.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I mean they get new names.
You know, you think about itwhen we're kids.
You know we don't knowcollaboration.
But that was collaboration.
That was knowing the strengthsthat you had and the weaknesses
and being able to partner withsomeone you know.
So it is funny and honestly, itcame up in our dinner
conversation on Sunday andanother very seasoned healthcare
leader said the same.
(21:56):
Right, it was like everyonewants to say what do I need to
know?
Well, I can say, someone who'shad a career that spanned over
30 years, right, if Itechnically had to learn it all
back then when I was at theuniversity, I wouldn't be
adaptable to be in the seat thatI'm in today and I clearly do
not know it all.
Right, so I absolutely rely onmy colleagues.
(22:19):
You know who.
Some are very technicallycompetent and focused.
Some are more global andgeneralized in their skill sets.
So you definitely want to be alifelong learner.
You know which?
Ache Kami?
Many of our you know academicinstitutions help us, you know,
with that.
So you're constantly going tobe picking up skills.
But I don't think there's amagic skill set, right, it's
(22:39):
like you're choosing to be aleader, so it's those leadership
traits which, fortunately,don't dramatically change.
Yeah, so I just I just try tohelp them to see that, because
otherwise it becomesoverwhelming.
Right, because it's AI today.
It'll be some other advancedcomponent of technology,
probably five years from now.
As I was mentioning, I wentthrough the era of, you know,
(23:02):
medicaid, managed care.
We're dealing now inaccountable care organizations
and moving to value.
So the industry is going tochange and you will adapt and
you will continue to pick uptechnical skills.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
How will you adapt is really an important part of
what it means to be human,almost.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And Denise.
With that, I really you know.
Again, my thanks for you comingonto our show and kind of
sharing.
You know your pathway, yourjourney through healthcare
management.
You know your leadership atHenry Ford to me, one of the
great health systems in ourcountry right now and it's just
something very admirable to seewhere you're going with that
(23:43):
organization and what you'redoing.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
Appreciate everything you dofor CAMI, everything you do for
students that are out there andeverything you do for the
community in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Thank you so much, Anthony.
A privilege to be here with youtoday.
Melissa, thank you very much for that introduction
and a really warm welcome todayto Denise Brooks-Williams.
Denise and I kind of go back alittle bit further back when you
were doing a lot with theNational Association of Health
Services Executives and I waswith Aramark and it was one of
the organizations that wesponsored from Aramark and I
think we got a little familiarwith each other then.
(00:22):
We got a little familiar witheach other then.
But I really feel like I'mgoing to the well a lot to you
recently with both your role atHenry Ford and where I want to
start with is you're aUniversity of Michigan grad and
I know that the CAMI educationalsession that you did with us
kind of talked about some of thethings that you saw at Michigan
(00:45):
, some of the experiences thatyou had, the Summer Enrichment
Program and the strongfoundation that the University
of Michigan gave you to startyour career.
So, denise, welcome, and I'llask you to kind of talk about
that experience first.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you, anthony, and I do agree.
We have the benefit of havingknown each other for a number of
years and Cammie, as you said,really has come to the
University of Michigan and I'vebeen privileged because I've sat
not only as the chair of ouralumni board but I now serve on
the Griffith LeadershipInstitute.
So I've been able to participatein those conversations and
(01:23):
share my story of being a summerenrichment program student and,
quite honestly, as I sharedthen, it really did shape my
career in that it gave me theexposure to a leader.
I worked at that time withLarry Warren, who's now retired
but still someone that I stay intouch with.
He was at Michigan Medicine atthe time and spending that
(01:45):
summer with him really codifiedfor me what healthcare
administration was, because,even though people said the
words and I kind of understoodit at that time, I'll be honest,
I had no idea who ran ahospital or exactly what that
role might look like.
But SCP, quite honestly, as itwas designed, gave you that
internship opportunity, thatsummer experience which led me
(02:08):
to apply to the university forthe master's program.
I was accepted, you know, wentthrough the program and really
have stayed connected all theseyears, I think in large part
because of that pipelineexperience that I had.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, you know, university of Michigan is
probably one of the granddaddiesof the health care management
approach, I think, if not thefirst, one of the first
universities to offer healthcare management, and was also
intimately involved with thefounding of CAMI back in 1968.
You know, there areuniversities and there are great
(02:46):
universities and I think whatMichigan has done in healthcare
management and the things likethe Summer Enrichment Program
has really kind of solidifiedits role in that area and has
continued to kind of grow inthat area.
Denise, so you went to Michigan, you became a grad.
So, denise, you went.
So you went to Michigan, youbecame a grad.
(03:06):
Then you got out and I'massuming you did a fellowship or
a residency.
You know, I think back in theday we were just calling them
residencies.
But tell me about thatexperience how did you look for
your residency?
You know, what did that do foryou, kind of moving forward?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes, so definitely.
So I went from.
I was an undergraduate studentat the university of Michigan.
I've worked like in thedepartment of epidemiology, done
some things in psychology, so alittle bit of sense of
healthcare, but definitely notenough to have confidence upon
graduation to go into a job.
So it was actually a fellowshipback then.
Upon graduation to go into ajob.
(03:47):
So it was actually a fellowshipback then.
And I was fortunate because wehad on-job kind of mentoring
opportunities where bothprofessionals would come of
course to talk to us about theprofession, but in addition to
that they would sometimes talkabout their organizations and
the fellowships that theyoffered.
So Dave Spivey was one of thoseleaders that came and Dave
worked at the time with MercyHealth Services and he kind of
(04:08):
mentioned hey, we have afellowship, Is that something
you might be interested in?
I knew a few things right that Iwanted to be in the Detroit
area that's where I'm from.
I don't know that I really hadthe words equity back then, but
I definitely grew up on the eastside of the city, which had a
lot of health, you know,challenges, and so I wanted to
(04:28):
be able to serve and be in acommunity that I thought I could
give back.
So Mercy fit that criteria.
You know, in the sense thatthey at that time were situated
in the city of Detroit.
They were headquartered in asuburb not too far away.
So that's where I applied andfortunately Mercy was at the
early end.
You know now the process offellowships have been kind of
(04:50):
normalized, like the interviewsare really early and everybody's
really finding out in the fall.
That wasn't the case back then.
It kind of could spread all theway to graduation.
But needless to say Mercy wasearly.
So I found out that January andI really didn't pursue any
other fellowships.
So thank goodness it worked out.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But that's where I did it.
You know it's interesting,denise.
You know you kind of mentionedthat I remember when I was going
for my fellowship.
It was the same thing it was.
They were offered across theyear and I think I got offered
(05:27):
my role in May, which began inJuly.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So yeah, oh, definitely it was a rolling,
yeah, rolling calendar.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, what are one of the what are a couple of the
things from your fellowship?
This podcast is really kind offocused on students and students
looking to kind of advance intheir careers.
What are a couple of the thingsthat really kind of stick out
from your fellowship experience?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I mean, the beautiful thing is, honestly, just on
Sunday I was at dinner with somefirst years at the University
of Michigan and, as you know,they're going into their first
summer.
You know kind of experience formany of them, and we talked
about fellowships as well andwhat I said to them honestly all
these years is still true thatit is a chance of a lifetime.
(06:15):
I was almost promoting it rightand encouraging that they
consider doing it Because, asyou know, as a student and even
if you're coming back with somehealthcare experience, the
profession changes so fast.
So the thing I remember aboutmy fellowship was just the
change and transition that theorganization was going through
and how fun it was, but at thesame time a little bit scary,
(06:38):
because I was like, oh wow, youknow, this was the era of
physician hospital organizationskind of being conceptualized.
There was discussion aroundMedicaid being managed and,
having managed care, come intothe Medicaid space.
So you were still, of course, astudent right of the profession
, but you were working, you know.
So one of the things I just kindof remember was the excitement
(07:00):
of all the different things thatyou were able to see and be
exposed to, and that's part ofwhy I try to encourage students
today to consider that, you know, as a part of their career
journey, because it allowed meto be exposed to many, many
aspects of the profession thathave helped to this day with my
ability to have an understanding.
The second big thing for myfellowship that I actually
(07:23):
shared with them on Sunday wasthe empathy and this perspective
that it takes everyone in theorganization to actually take
care of patients, and I wasprivileged that the team that I
worked with really expressedthat right.
So, from the frontline teammembers, those that were in the
support services, of course, ourphysicians and our nurses
(07:44):
they're all important and Ithink you can go into the
fellowship sometimes with thehierarchical mindset You're
going in to be an executive andyou can the foundation of really
how we deliver care.
So I definitely remember thatmessaging coming from my mentors
and honestly, it's somethingthat I carry today that I'm very
(08:07):
intentional about knowing allof the team and speaking to all
of the people that are takingcare of our patients and
families.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Got it so true.
You brought back some memoriesfor me of my own experience and
that same part which was you'dbe at board meetings and you'd
get to really kind of rub elbowslet's not say rub elbows, come
close to rubbing elbows withsome of the leaders of the
community and then, on the otherhand, you would then go out and
(08:35):
you'd be interviewing floorpeople about how to kind of make
some of the changes and whatwas going on in the organization
.
So it really does require thatsense of getting everyone's
voice and understanding what theimpact of a decision would be.
Talk about what your typicalday would look like at this
point.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So my typical day today is Soho use.
Today it's a very cold day inMichigan, so I woke up early to
an incident command to confirmthat we would have the heat that
we need to be able to operatein our sites, that we have the
staff, most importantly becauseof course, when you have schools
(09:17):
out, it affects families, andthose families are families that
are trying to take care of ourpatients.
So really, you know, trying tounderstand, do we have the right
staffing to be able to have ouroperations go on as they need
to?
So it really is a situationalawareness.
Typically, it's how the daystarts.
Then I have a lot of meetingsand those meetings can be around
our strategy.
(09:37):
We are a system that's forming.
As you know, we've had thisgreat joint venture that became
a reality for us in October of24.
So still a lot of integrationwork is going on.
So I spend a lot of my timewith our new colleagues from
Ascension looking at how weintegrate and become one Henry
Ford Health.
(09:58):
So lots of work going on inthat space and a lot of it is
really around culture right.
So right now I'm in the fieldas it would be, so going to a
lot of the new sites that wehave, meeting teams, meeting our
physicians, understanding thecommunities that we're serving.
So it's a lot of external focusas well, as, you know, being
(10:19):
focused on running the business.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's funny you reminded me of.
You know, the role of the CEOis to make sure you turn the
lights on in the morning, andthat's if you miss that.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
That's right, I mean yeah, it's like the critical
orientation.
I still receive kind of thehuddle reports, of course, from
each of the sites.
So, understanding again, whatare they dealing with, right?
So do we have somevulnerabilities that we're
dealing with?
We know, this winter, as anexample, the respiratory
conditions are, you know, kindof causing a lot of constraints
(10:52):
in our emergency departments,and so I'm always, you know,
having that situationalawareness so that I can be
supportive of the teams that I'msupporting.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You mentioned and I won't get into a lot of details
with it, but you mentioned thearrangement with Ascension and I
know you're speaking just as alittle plug here for the
American College of HealthcareExecutives, their annual
Congress, which will be inHouston this year in March.
You are speaking at a sessionon that.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about what that session is
(11:23):
going to preview?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Absolutely so we're going to.
We're very early in the jointventure, of course, and so what
we want to talk about in thesession is really just culture
and how we are approachingintegration.
There's a bit of uniqueness, Iguess, about this relationship
in that the assets that wereoriginally a part of Ascension
Health will remain Catholic, andso we'll talk a little bit
about that as well.
(11:45):
Right, how do you have thiskind of faith-based and secular
system come together, you know,under one umbrella and really
have a common value set thatyou're going to lead by, and
that's how it starts, right?
So we felt we're so early inthis.
It'll be myself and our chiefstrategy officer and we're going
to talk really about that.
(12:05):
How are we forming strategy?
How are we coming together?
What are some of the early, youknow, signs of success that
we're experiencing, and what arethe things that we're very
optimistic that will come in thefuture?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Well, and you have, like you said, you have the
experience of going throughmergers and relationships like
that in the past that you hadearly in your career.
That still help you at thispoint.
So absolutely.
The focus on culture isinteresting.
I'm reminded of some of themergers that I went through and
the comment that the CEO isculture.
Each strategy for lunch andbreakfast and dinner.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Exactly and just keeps eating.
It just keeps eating.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Oh, thank you, denise .
On your LinkedIn profile todayand we're recording this the day
after Martin Luther King Dayyou, you put a quote that I just
thought was so touching, and itwas a service is the rent we
pay for the privilege of livingon earth.
(13:06):
Service is the rent we pay forthe privilege of living on earth
, and that, that quote, I think,is mostly attributed to, uh,
shirley Chisholm uh was the thefirst woman to run for president
, uh, on a major political party, uh back.
(13:28):
I don't remember when, but itwas certainly like 20, 25 years
ago or something.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah, probably.
You're right About 25 years ago.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
But your, your, your life and your career and what
you do is all kind of related tothat.
This wasn't just oh, it's anice quote Let me kind of put on
here, but I think this reallykind of drives you, and you
you've done it with the nationalassociation of service
executives really kind of drivesyou, and you've done it with
the National Association ofService Executives, you've done
(13:59):
it with NCHL Tell me why, why doyou spend so much of your time
and energy kind of in thatservice mentality that is
broader than your role at ahospital?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and I appreciate you lifting that
yesterday a very profound dayright In terms of the MLK
celebration, and I chose thequote because, quite honestly,
our focus at the health systemwas just on that right service
and service beyond right.
Many of us are, you know, seeourselves as servant leaders
because we're in a serviceindustry, but I have always
(14:30):
taken very seriously this fact.
You know we're here for alimited period of time, you know
, doing what I hope right, we'vebeen kind of ordained or placed
here to do, and for me that hasreally been about serving
others and making an impact, soreally having a legacy that's
broader than just the job maybethat you did, but that you
(14:51):
sought to really make thingsbetter and close the gap.
So a lot of my work outside ofmy role is in that space.
Right, I have a particularinterest in youth in urban areas
and really having access foreveryone, be, you know, as equal
and available as possible.
So with the time I have, whichisn't as much as it used to be,
(15:13):
I do try to be intentional aboutreally connecting with
organizations and evenindividuals that see things
bigger than themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, and you've done that through some really kind
of neat approaches.
I mean Michigan Governor's TaskForce on Racial Disparities and
your participation in there,nchl, your participation at ACHA
, even the stuff you do withCAMI and again I'm very thankful
for you allowing me to go tothe well so many different times
with you.
But I think all of those thingsare ways to give back and kind
(15:44):
of talk to the people about theimportance of serving your
community and where you kind ofmove from here.
So I think there's two partswith here.
One of them is your leadershipcolors, the approach that you
take with those organizations.
But your background is such asignificant part, where you grew
up, what you did, and that alsokind of influences the impact
(16:06):
that you seek to make.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
So, again, a lot of people are listening to this
podcast, tend to be students whoare either contemplating going
into healthcare management orare currently in a graduate
program and trying to figure outwhere their next steps are, or
even people who are inhealthcare trying to figure out
how do I grow and where do Ikind of move up on there.
Well, you know, what advicewould you give a student or a
(16:32):
young careerist if you would isprobably a better way to say it
a young careerist who wants tokind of make an impact, what
advice would you give them?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, and I'm privileged to have those
conversations a lot, and Ireally do start with right know
your why.
You know why, why.
Why health care you knowtypically these are bright,
brilliant, early careers, as yousaid, that have a lot of
choices and options, right.
And so I think when you knowyour why kind of anchors you and
(17:00):
how you're going to grow, whereyou're going to go, you know
who you want to serve, becausethere might be a lot of options.
Today there's consulting,there's, you know, there's
pharma, there's insurance,there's the delivery side of
healthcare.
So I think the first thing iskind of your, why, why were you
drawn to this and what do youreally want your imprint to be
is one of the things I try toexplore and just have them like.
(17:22):
You don't have to share it.
It's not a homework assignmentthat I have to see, but you
yourself, right, should knowkind of what you're doing and
why you're doing it.
And I think, once you know that, it does help you to me to some
degree to be a bit calm aboutwhat roles you take, the pace at
which you may progress in yourcareer, because when you don't,
and you're just, I want to beright, fill in the blank I want
(17:45):
to be the CEO, I want to be thevice president.
Not rooted in really why you'redoing it and the joy that you
seek from doing it can make thatreally more a chase than a
journey.
I think it becomes a journeywhen you kind of say, hey, I
want to serve or I want topartner, I want to eliminate
health disparities, I want tomake it easier for people to
(18:07):
access care, I want to lower thecost of care.
You know, whatever that, why is?
It really creates your ownpersonal true north and I think
it then makes the opportunitiesthat you seek more clear.
It helps you to understand whensomething's not fulfilling that
, why.
So maybe the you know theimpetus for you to maybe move
and seek something else.
(18:27):
So that to me, really is thefoundational piece that I try to
have in the conversation.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
It's really something I know when I interview people
and you ask that question andyou go.
So what do you want to do?
And they'll go, I'll doanything.
And it's like, well, that's notthe right person to have in the
organization.
What's your mission?
What kind of drives you, whatkind of motivates you kind of
moving forward?
Are there, you know again, alot of changes in healthcare and
(18:56):
technology right now.
Are there skills that you wouldsay to a student or a young
career, some certain skills thatyou think might be more
important to attain at thislevel?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I mean, and I really separate them right.
So I use the old adageeverything we learned in
kindergarten is going to likecarry us for the rest of our
days, right.
So be polite, share.
Got to play well in the sandboxwith others.
We know that that evolves to becan you work in a matrix
organization.
(19:45):
So if you remember that adagethat you got to honor and play
with everyone, well, I thinkthat basic skill set, honestly,
I say, if you have those thenyou are going to probably do
well in management andinstitutions like the University
of Michigan and those that canbe accredited, they give that to
us right, so you're getting thetechnical piece, but we know a
(20:07):
lot of times the leadershipdecision.
Quite honestly, we know thatyou're technically competent,
you know, you know the ins andouts of the profession.
The differentiators are howwell do you connect?
You know with people, how welldo you understand?
Having that you know kind ofemotional intelligence to
(20:28):
understand when to act and whennot to act, listening more than
talking.
So it really is that basicskill set that I really
emphasize people being connectedwith.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Denise.
So true, and you know it's areally good point is?
You know?
There's a lot of changes goingon in the tech market right now,
and I think you need to betechnically savvy in them to
understand what it means to runan organization, take advantage
of it, but to say, oh, I want tobecome an expert in AI and that
will help me.
You know, if that kind of fitswithin your why, that's true.
(21:01):
Now, one of the things let mekind of talk about this what did
you learn in kindergarten?
I'll kind of share somethingwith you.
One of them was I couldn't tiemy shoes in kindergarten that
big big thing but the personnext to me was really good at
tying shoes.
On the other hand, I was prettygood at printing at that point.
I don't know why, but so Iremember I helped him print his
(21:25):
name on his card and he helpedme tie my shoes so I can.
And it's that collaborationthat really is still important
in health care right now too.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I mean they get new names.
You know, you think about itwhen we're kids.
You know we don't knowcollaboration.
But that was collaboration.
That was knowing the strengthsthat you had and the weaknesses
and being able to partner withsomeone you know.
So it is funny and honestly, itcame up in our dinner
conversation on Sunday andanother very seasoned healthcare
leader said the same.
(21:56):
Right, it was like everyonewants to say what do I need to
know?
Well, I can say, someone who'shad a career that spanned over
30 years, right, if Itechnically had to learn it all
back then when I was at theuniversity, I wouldn't be
adaptable to be in the seat thatI'm in today and I clearly do
not know it all.
Right, so I absolutely rely onmy colleagues.
(22:19):
You know who.
Some are very technicallycompetent and focused.
Some are more global andgeneralized in their skill sets.
So you definitely want to be alifelong learner.
You know which?
Ache Kami?
Many of our you know academicinstitutions help us, you know,
with that.
So you're constantly going tobe picking up skills.
But I don't think there's amagic skill set, right, it's
(22:39):
like you're choosing to be aleader, so it's those leadership
traits which, fortunately,don't dramatically change.
Yeah, so I just I just try tohelp them to see that, because
otherwise it becomesoverwhelming.
Right, because it's AI today.
It'll be some other advancedcomponent of technology,
probably five years from now.
As I was mentioning, I wentthrough the era of, you know,
(23:02):
medicaid, managed care.
We're dealing now inaccountable care organizations
and moving to value.
So the industry is going tochange and you will adapt and
you will continue to pick uptechnical skills.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
How will you adapt is really an important part of
what it means to be human,almost.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And Denise.
With that, I really you know.
Again, my thanks for you comingonto our show and kind of
sharing.
You know your pathway, yourjourney through healthcare
management.
You know your leadership atHenry Ford to me, one of the
great health systems in ourcountry right now and it's just
something very admirable to seewhere you're going with that
(23:43):
organization and what you'redoing.
Thank you very much for yourtime.
Appreciate everything you dofor CAMI, everything you do for
students that are out there andeverything you do for the
community in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Thank you so much, Anthony.
A privilege to be here with youtoday.
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