October 10, 2023 • 48 mins
Jordan Griffin is a Field Clinical Specialist at Boston Scientific. Jordan’s no stranger to the medical device field, as her dad owns a distributorship focused on spinal implants. In this episode she shares what it was like to be a daughter of a busy, successful surgical distributor, product and sales education and how it differs in direct and distributor companies, managing a rural territory, how a clinical specialist differs from a sales rep, and what it’s like to interview and break into a large company.
Links from this episode:
- Jordan Griffin LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-griffin-685b97209/
- Boston Scientific https://www.bostonscientific.com
Connect with Mastering Medical Device:
- Website: https://www.masteringmedicaldevice.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mastering-medical-device
- Patrick Kothe LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-kothe
- Patrick Kothe Twitter: https://twitter.com/patrickkothe
Support the show for as little as $3/month: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1286645/support
Thanks for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pat Kothe (00:31):
Welcome! This year, we've had some great discussions
with senior members of themedical device community.
Today, we're going to speak withsomeone that's a little more
junior, and who's at thebeginning of her career.
Our guest today is JordanGriffin, a Field Clinical
Specialist at Boston Scientific.
(00:51):
Jordan's no stranger to themedical device field, as her dad
owns a distributorship focusedon spinal implants.
But after working with him for awhile, she decided to blaze her
own trail and move to a newcompany and a new state.
In our conversation, we discusswhat it was like to be the
daughter of a busy, successfulsurgical distributor, product
(01:14):
and sales education and how itdiffers in direct and
distributor companies, managinga rural territory, how a
clinical specialist differs froma sales rep, and what it's like
to interview and break into alarge medical device company.
Here's our conversation.
(01:34):
Jordan, you were exposed to themedical device business for most
of your life.
please tell me, uh, what it waslike to be the daughter of a
spinal implant and painmanagement distributor.
Jordan Griffin (01:48):
My dad is an independent distributor for
spinal implants in Denver, soI've grown up in this industry
for a very long time.
He's going to dinners.
He's in cases all day.
And so I didn't really get ainkling for it until I was in
probably later years of highschool, and then college.
He was always talking to peoplealways interacting with people
(02:09):
going on dinner fun things andtrips And then I started to get
into it probably my freshmanyear and then did it through
college with one of hispartners.
So basically what I was doingwas just helping them out.
I was loading pans and droppingthem off at hospitals, doing
some case coverage and justtrying to be of assistance.
And that's where I really fellin love with it.
(02:31):
I am a very outgoing people,person and I just loved the
atmosphere, helping people aswell as having that social
aspect to it.
Pat Kothe (02:40):
some people, embrace what their parents do and say, I
want to do that.
Some people run away from it.
point did you start to reallyembrace it?
Because I imagine the dinnersand everything were at times
when you may have had thingsgoing on at school and dad
couldn't be there.
So, there was some of that thereas well, right?
Jordan Griffin (03:02):
Absolutely.
So I think I started to embraceit more when, his flexibility
came into picture a little bit.
He was say, in cases, mostlyTuesdays, Wednesdays, but then
he was doing other, at homestuff Thursday and Friday, and,
had more flexibility intraveling and stuff like that
and living a full life.
(03:22):
I worked a little bit in anorthopedic clinic doing kind of
more of that nine to five, and Ifigured out really quickly that
I wasn't built for it.
I love being up, moving around,going to different places, being
in the car and having a millionthings to do.
It's just the way I run, even ifsometimes it gets tiring, that's
just the way my mind is wired.
Pat Kothe (03:44):
So you started, as you said, running trays and
doing things, for your dad.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou learned.
about the business that wasdifferent than what you thought
it was, not being embeddedwithin it.
Jordan Griffin (03:58):
I was young and naive and I was like, oh, it's
all about just, case coverageand bringing the implants to the
case and bringing the pans andmake sure everything was in
order and it's so deeplyembedded now into the type of
person you are how well you getalong with people how well
you're able to spin aconversation and spin it into
(04:18):
the light of hey I havesomething that I can do for you
and I'd be happy to show you I'dbe happy to sell you something
or have you try something, aswell as just being, like I said,
like more of that people person.
If you can sit there and have aconversation with just about
anyone and kind of spin it in away that is either business
minded or more friendly minded,you're going to do well in this
(04:41):
kind of industry.
Being able to make friends andconnections I feel has really
driven me to be better, in thesetypes of positions because I
love talking to people, I lovebeing friends with people, I
love learning about people'slives and it takes a lot of
people skills, which I didn'treally realize from the get go.
Catering your conversation andbeing interested in people and
(05:03):
trying your best to just makesomeone's life easier or better.
it's very fulfilling.
Pat Kothe (05:10):
Part of it, it also is technical skill.
so with the particular spinalimplants that's being in
surgery, that's, being there,with instruments, with,
technique, different technique,suggestions, answering
questions.
so what about, uh, the training?
tell me a little bit about howyou, how you approach the
(05:32):
training from a distributorstandpoint, to learn surgical
skills.
Jordan Griffin (05:37):
It was a lot of it mixed together and then it
came out great in the end.
It was a lot of reaching out tothe companies that we had
represented at the time andseeing if I can get, time on
their training modules withtheir product.
As well as just watching casesand learning from the people
around you.
Learning from experience in thisindustry is crucial.
(05:58):
I learned that from a very youngage.
People have so much knowledge togive you and if you just sit
down and listen and then go homeand take notes on what you have
talked about, it's easier tothen turn around the next day
and realize how that looks.
I'm more of a person that needslike a one, two, three, four
step.
So when I was planning for casesI always go through exactly what
(06:19):
the doc's going to do, and studyhis technique.
Every neurosurgeon, if they'reorthopedic or not, will do
things a little bit differently,especially in the spine world.
And so if you can map outexactly the steps of they're
gonna do a laminectomy first,they're gonna obviously use
this, and this, then that waseasier for me to make sure I had
all the right instruments, allthe right implants, and just
(06:41):
kind of studying.
Studying that doctor, studyingthe other reps, and seeing what
they do.
There's a lot of weird tips andtricks in this field that you
catch on pretty quickly and thenthings start to become easier.
Pat Kothe (06:56):
So who's your inside person when you're doing that
learning?
Because just standing in, in theOR, you could pick some things
up, but you also need to havesomebody telling you what's
going on and helping you teach.
So who's your inside person,that aids you in that?
Jordan Griffin (07:12):
It's honestly a little bit of everyone.
so for an independentdistributor side, it's the
person that you're with, theperson that you're covering
cases with, as well as I had theluxury and my dad was sitting at
home, so I could go home and askhim a ton of questions about
what was going on, and he washappy to run through it with me
and really try to slow it downto make it where I could
(07:33):
understand where it would workin my brain.
direct does a little differentwhere they build the foundation
1st, and then you cover caseswith people.
and then that's how you learnthat way.
But I also ask doctors.
Doctors, 9 times out of 10 wouldlove to show you and tell you
why they're doing what they'redoing because at the end of the
day, they went through 12 plusyears of schooling for this and
(07:55):
they're one of the smartesthumans and they love teaching
people.
So sometimes if a doc doessomething that I haven't really
seen before, I'll just ask himand be like, Hey, is that
something that you usually do?
could I ask like, why you dothat?
Obviously being respectful andeverything like that, but.
It's really fun to learn from adoctor's perspective why they do
what they do and see what theirkind of method of the madness
(08:17):
is.
Pat Kothe (08:19):
I've heard many sales reps say, to clinicians, teach
me like I'm a resident.
can you please teach me like I'ma resident?
Take it from step one all theway through and then you're
getting that full why, not onlyhow, but the why.
so as you're picking this up, asyou said, a direct employee is
(08:41):
going to have, knowledge builtupon knowledge, but when you're
in a distributor, it's not quitethat way because you've got
multiple product lines, you'renot inside that company.
You're going to be picking upthings different.
what was most challenging aboutlearning that way?
Jordan Griffin (08:59):
It was challenging, because I'm a
little bit of a type Apersonality, so I love the like
solid training program.
I love the.
course that's super, super hardand really teaches you
everything you need to know.
independent distributorships aremore, you learn so much on
experience, which also taught megreat things because then I had
(09:21):
that more of that keen eye towatch out for things that are
super small, but also would playa huge factor in being a great
rep.
I think it's awesome if you'reable to do a little bit of both,
and try both sides.
Both sides obviously have prosand cons to them.
but being from an independentdistributor side, it is
challenging because you have,say, 6 different product lines
(09:44):
from 6 different companies, andit's just about studying all of
those companies are more thanwilling, to send out training
modules and marketing materialsand stuff like that.
And I think it gets put more onthe independent distributor side
of, you need to take theinitiative to learn that stuff,
learn the ins and outs of it,because if a doctor doesn't like
it, then you have theavailability to switch to a
(10:06):
different company, which is alsoamazing and a super good selling
point.
Pat Kothe (10:11):
So out of those six or ten companies, however many
that you're dealing with, I'msure some of them had very good,
training programs fordistributors and some not so
good.
I'm not going to ask you to tellme which companies had the good
ones, but of the good ones, whatwas it that they did
(10:32):
particularly well?
Jordan Griffin (10:34):
some of those companies that did really well
were the ones that firstprovided you with some type of
online platform of watchingvideos and reading stuff to
really just get the technicalaspects of their product, how
they're used and stuff likethat.
And then there was a companythat would send out a direct rep
or have you meet with a directrep and, they would go through
(10:55):
it as well with someone like me.
It was.
I was more of an associate, so Ididn't do a ton of training.
I was more of like a helpinghand.
but for someone like my dad andhis coworkers, they obviously
know tons more of informationabout these companies and really
strive to know everything aboutthem.
so it was more put on them atthe end of the day after cases
(11:16):
and stuff like that, that my dadwas sitting on the computer and
he was going through histraining modules.
He was on the phone with theregional manager or whoever
talking, asking questions,taking notes, stuff like that.
And especially he's such aseasoned person in the industry
that he knows what it takes tolearn and make sure that he's
(11:36):
adequate in his productdescriptions and everything.
Pat Kothe (11:40):
So as an associate rep, as you said, you're not in
the case by yourself, all thetime.
You may be occasionally in thecase by yourself.
What was that like when youdidn't have complete knowledge,
but you were in that case byyourself?
Jordan Griffin (12:00):
I was praying to God nothing went wrong.
I I was sitting there praying toGod that nothing went wrong
and...
some of the docs that we, evenif I was in the case for an hour
by myself or something likethat, most of them knew our
product very well.
They had been working with mydad or his partner for years.
So, I was banking on the ideathat he wouldn't look up and ask
(12:21):
me a question and he wouldoccasionally just because he was
a jokester are kind of guy, butI was just sitting there paying
attention as best as I possiblycould and helping wherever I
could.
If that was the scrub tech orthe circulating nurse, and yeah,
just making sure that nothingwent wrong because there's
something did.
Oh, no.
Pat Kothe (12:39):
Have you had the occasion to have something go
wrong and you didn't know theanswer?
Jordan Griffin (12:45):
Oh, absolutely.
I think it happens to everysingle rep.
I don't think I can think oflike a specific time, but
there's always going to be thatday where you're just a little
off.
Your brain is somewhere else andyou tell a doctor how to use a
product wrong or you dosomething so simple.
I'm always the person that willrealize what had happened
(13:05):
probably 10 minutes after it'shappened and then I'll sit down
the dock and be like, hey, I amI'm so sorry.
I was off my game X, Y, and Z.
And if you're just upfront andhonest, it's usually going to
work out a lot better because.
Like I said before, these peopleare incredibly smart.
You're not going to outsmartthem, and they probably know at
the end of the day what happenedand whose fault or whose fault
(13:28):
it technically is.
when it has happened to me, Ialways just turn around and
apologize and say, it'll neverhappen again.
Pat Kothe (13:36):
Yeah, I think, a couple of things there.
First of all, if you're not anexperienced rep, Prep them, say,
Hey, I'm going through myeducation.
There may be some questions thatI absolutely know.
And there's going to be somequestions that I don't know.
If you, if you ask me a questionand I'm not a hundred percent
sure, I'm going to tell you, I'mnot a hundred percent sure.
(13:56):
You're setting yourself up forsuccess that way, because the
worst thing you can do is,you're setting yourself up for
failure.
Try and answer a question thatyou don't know.
Because there's a patient on thetable.
Jordan Griffin (14:09):
And that, at the end of the day, that's the most
important.
And actually, the company that Iwork for now taught me that too.
It's just, if you don't know it,that's okay.
you're not going to knoweverything at the end of the
day, and if you sit there andyou're just, again, upfront and
honest and say, Hey, I'm, I willcheck on that as soon as we're
out of this case, or as soon aswe have a second, I'll text
someone that does know that andI will figure it out for you.
Pat Kothe (14:32):
Yeah, and I've been in, in an office.
I was running a marketingdepartment in the office and the
phone rings and it's somebodythat's in surgery with a surgeon
saying they have a questionhere.
I can't answer it.
Can you answer this?
the patient's on the table.
Bang.
You're right.
You're right there.
So you're able to find peoplethat have the answers.
(14:55):
Make sure that you know, who it,who it's supposed to be that has
the answers, that has, has thatbackup and you can serve your
customers, that way.
Jordan Griffin (15:03):
Speed dial.
Pat Kothe (15:05):
Yeah.
So at, at some point in time youdecided, that, you wanted to do
something else, other thanworking with your dad.
So what was that all about?
What, what were you thinking atthat point where you moved out
of, out of your dad'sdistributorship?
Jordan Griffin (15:19):
It was.
Such a good experience.
I was surrounded by the bestpeople.
but I sat back on myself and Iwas like, Hey, you have a direct
line into this industry and moreof a coming from a pride
standpoint, I wanted to makesure I could cut my teeth in
this industry without having thehelp of my dad.
I know I had the experience fromhim and all of that kind of
(15:40):
stuff, so my resume was awesome,but I wanted to make sure that I
could work under someone elseand work for more of a corporate
company.
I had a lot of dreams andaspirations.
Once I finally graduated collegeand was out in the world, I
wanted to cut my own teeth andmake sure that I still had the
personality and the brain tomake it in this field, because
it is tough.
Pat Kothe (16:01):
you started to look for other opportunities.
What was that like?
How did you do it?
Jordan Griffin (16:07):
My, go to thing to say is interviews are great
experience and great, things tojust get into.
So I applied for everything.
I applied for associate, spinereps.
I applied for regular spinereps.
I applied for, total joint, likethe whole nine yards.
I just wanted to get somewhereinto it.
(16:28):
It was going to be nice if itwas some bigger company that I
could move up in, but I juststarted applying and then
interview after interview andtried to stay in Colorado.
But, When I was just throwingout all the resumes, cover
letters and stuff, I had arecruiter reach out to me, set
up an interview and went fromthere.
Pat Kothe (16:48):
what's the process like?
Uh, what was the process like?
you interviewed severaldifferent, companies.
One interview, five interviews,eight interviews, how many
people?
What's the process look liketoday?
Jordan Griffin (17:00):
So honestly, it depends on every single company
and where you're at.
With a metropolitan city,obviously you're going to have
more interviews because theyhave more candidates.
For a bigger, medical devicecompany, I did, I think the most
I did was six interviews.
And I had a personality test aswell.
And then I had other interviewswhere they had offered me a job
(17:23):
after an interview with thedirect manager and the regional.
It honestly differs a lot and Ithink it differs on the position
you're looking at the place thatyou're looking at and your
experience.
Pat Kothe (17:38):
Do you have any, interesting interview stories,
people asking you strangequestions or asking you to sell
a pencil or, any, things thatyou found interesting?
Jordan Griffin (17:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
So a very large medical devicecompany I ended up interviewing
with.
And after, oh, my gosh, I metwith so many people on that
interview.
I met with, the direct manager,the regional, HR, the whole nine
yards and everyone had told methat the interviews went great.
I was really excited because Ihad worked with this company
(18:07):
previously.
Then I ended up failing thepersonality test.
So the last part of thatinterview was a personality test
and I am not sure how you fail apersonality test if I'm being
honest, but they do apersonality test to make sure
you fit into the ideals of therest of the company, and way or
another, I did not fit into theideals and I, still to this day,
(18:30):
I would love to know my results,but they were like, I'm really
sorry.
We're just done with theinterview process.
You didn't fit our personalitytest.
And I was like, does that mean Ifailed a personality test?
And they're like, unfortunately,yes.
And I thought that was veryinteresting.
Pat Kothe (18:46):
It is, it is really interesting, um, When you have
tests like that and interpretingthose tests and, having criteria
based on those tests.
There is some science involvedwith that.
certain personalities, uh, mayhave a greater propensity or
higher probability of success.
(19:06):
But you can have success in alot of different ways.
And I've always found those hardand fast rules to be, um, Less
than ideal or less than usefulbecause you're taking a lot of
people who are going to besuccessful on their own with
their own personality.
They know themselves, and theyknow how to get things done.
(19:27):
It may be different than whattheir quote unquote ideal
personality looks like.
But like I said, you can besuccessful in a lot of different
ways.
Jordan Griffin (19:37):
Yeah, no question.
Pat Kothe (19:38):
Unfortunately that's something that, that some
companies do, and sometimes youget bounced out for things that
you don't understand, but it'slike sales, isn't it?
some sales situations you getbounced out and told no.
And it doesn't make any sense toyou, but that's kind of the
game.
I've always said that, if youinterview too much, you get good
(19:59):
at interviewing, and that's notnecessarily a good thing.
Did you feel like you wereinterviewing too much?
Did you feel yourself gettingbetter at interviewing?
Jordan Griffin (20:09):
I did feel that I got better at interviewing,
but I think it was a good thing.
I totally get where you'recoming from, of like, you know
how to answer those questionsnow.
Um, but it honestly just made memore confident.
I was fresh out of college.
I was, 22 years old and it washard for me to talk to people
that I didn't know and tell themeverything about my life and why
(20:31):
they should hire me over a 15minute phone call.
So the one thing that I will sayis that interviews made me be
able to sell myself a little bitmore and be more confident in
what I was saying and what Iwould be providing to that
company and providing to thetable.
Pat Kothe (20:48):
So tell me a little bit about the interviewers.
what did you learn through theprocess about the people who are
asking the questions?
Jordan Griffin (20:55):
It ranged a little bit, company to company.
It was a little bit different,but there were companies that
you could tell that they weremore focused on what you were
going to do in a sales aspect ofthem.
Um, which is totally fine.
Cause a lot of companies aregoing to do that.
They want to make money.
Everyone does.
Um, but then I also hadinterview people call me and
they were more interested inboth aspects of who I was as a
(21:19):
person, how was I going tofunction on a team with someone
as well as what I was going tobe able to bring to the table as
a sales quota and all of thatgood stuff.
Pat Kothe (21:29):
So they have different criteria, they have
different, skills that they wantto assess during that process
based on what the position is.
So you may not have knownexactly what the position was,
but as you're interviewing,you're getting a better idea
what they value.
Jordan Griffin (21:46):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Pat Kothe (21:48):
Could you also tell the personality of the person
asking the questions?
Jordan Griffin (21:52):
Yeah.
I think with doing a bunch ofinterviews, being around this
world for a while, it's easiernow for me to sit and talk to
someone and get that like goodvibe almost from them.
And so that was really greatwhen you would run into
interviewing people that couldjust sit there and have a
conversation with you, becausethey're feeling you out as much
as you're feeling them out.
(22:13):
And if you're comfy and you fitthe job description and stuff
like that, it's easy.
Because you're like, wow, I canget along with this team.
The company seems like they havegreat values and they value the
people that actually work forthem.
Rather than just the number thatthey're going to bring in at the
end of the year.
so that's something that Ireally looked for as well.
And that was something that mydad had told me.
(22:35):
He was like, you want to behired by someone that at the end
of the day that you like, thatyou want to work for, that you
want to work hard for, becauseit makes your job a lot easier.
And it makes it a lot moreenjoyable.
Pat Kothe (22:46):
There's many different interviewing
strategies, but one strategy isa stress interview and, see how
somebody does it.
another strategy is, be thefriend.
And, you want to make thatperson very comfortable because
you want them to let their guarddown and tell you things that
they normally wouldn't tell you.
So, that is also something tokeep in mind as you're having
(23:06):
that conversation is, whatexactly are, are you sharing?
Is it appropriate?
I like that strategy and I likeit because you're getting the
real person.
And if you're guarded in yourinterview and you're not telling
them exactly who you are andwhat's important to you, they're
going to find out.
If you hire them, they're goingto find out anyways.
So it really becomes, is it agood fit between you and that
(23:26):
person, and if somebody is ajerk in an interview, you're not
going to want to work for themanyways.
Jordan Griffin (23:33):
Exactly.
You know that your life is notgoing to be very fun after that.
Pat Kothe (23:37):
So you, you, uh, you end up, uh, landing in a
position with an excellentcompany.
Uh, so tell me a little bitabout what, what you're doing
now.
Jordan Griffin (23:47):
I now work for Boston Scientific as a clinical
specialist for theirneuromodulation team.
it's been absolutely fantastic.
I love this company to absolutedeath.
The people around me arefantastic.
Now that I'm in Wyoming, thingsare different than when I worked
medical device in more of ametropolitan city.
but I really can't complain.
It's been amazing.
(24:09):
I've been here for, it'sactually been a year now.
This month will be a year.
So far, so good.
And hopefully we'll continue on.
Pat Kothe (24:18):
So moving from, as you said, an urban area to, to a
non or very non urban area is abig change, not only for, your
life, but also medicine ispractice a little bit different
in, in more rural areas.
So what were some of the, thebig changes that you saw from a
medical standpoint, from, thehustle of, of an urban area to a
(24:43):
little bit more relaxed
Jordan Griffin (24:44):
the rural medicine world is definitely
different.
A lot of doctors travel a lotmore than they would in a
metropolitan city.
So they're covering multiplecities, practicing medicine
there.
This can, it depends on thedoctor's life, but it can be
great or it can be a downfall.
The medicine is a lot morepersonalized because there's
just not as big as a populationin Wyoming.
(25:06):
There's still a ton of doctorshere, but it's just not as big.
You get more of a personalizedexperience.
Some of these doctors that Iwork with, they are just salt of
the earth.
They are the nicest humanbeings.
They are here purely becausethey love this state and they
love the life that they live.
And it's just an added bonusthat they get to treat people
and help people.
Pat Kothe (25:26):
the products that you're representing, tell me a
little bit about the patientneed, what the patient is going
through, and what your productdelivers.
Jordan Griffin (25:36):
We focus on chronic pain.
We focus on patients that havegone through every single outlet
trying to, cope with theirchronic pain, help it in any
way.
And we're kind of end of theline.
Uh, we do spinal cordstimulation.
Which is something that getsimplanted in your epidural space
and then blocks the neuralactivity or neural indicators
(25:57):
from going to your brain thatyou have pain going on.
Basically what happens is theygo through a trial period where
they try the system and atleast, hopefully 50 percent or
more of their pain is reduced.
That's considered a successfultrial.
And then from there they go forpermanent implant where they
get, uh, leads permanentlyplaced in their epidural space.
(26:19):
It's usually thoracic spine,depending on their pain pattern.
And then they get a littlebattery about the size of an
Oreo cookie and they have aremote to it and they turn on
stimulation, which is kind of,it's like a tens unit on
steroids.
So I just focus on patients thathave failed back surgeries.
They've had radial ablation.
They've had injections.
They've had everything to managechronic pain, and they can't
(26:44):
figure anything else out.
We focus 100 percent on nervepain.
I have a lot more patientinteraction than I do for spinal
implants.
so I'm there with them allthroughout the trial.
I'm then waiting for them to getpermanently implanted.
They're setting upreprogrammings with me, the
(27:04):
whole nine yards.
You just have more of arelationship with the patient.
And it's really great becauseyou can help the doctor and more
create a team aspect to helpthis patient the best that we
possibly can.
Pat Kothe (27:16):
Yeah, it's different than a lot of medical devices.
Medical devices, a lot of themare, you're talking to the
clinician, and you're talking tothe hospital administrators,
supply chain people and that'syour call point.
And the patient may be on thetable, but you're really not,
talking to the patient, notinteracting, not educating the
(27:37):
patient.
Your business is different, inthat, you do have that patient
interaction.
So in dealing with patients andclinicians, tell me a little bit
about how that works.
Are you talking to the patientas a independent company, are
you talking to them as anextension of the clinician's
(27:59):
team?
How are you, How are you talkingto the patients?
Jordan Griffin (28:03):
I really try to talk to them in more of an
aspect of, I'm an extension ofthe office.
I'm the extension of a doctor,just to make them feel that they
have, which they do, they have amore of a patient care team.
Um, Boston provides fantasticresources for patients.
we have a patient educationteam.
We have a, call line that theycan call if they have trouble
(28:25):
with their device, as well asthey have our personal phone
numbers, and obviously doctor'soffices and stuff like that.
I become more of a call pointfor those patients because I'm
not a doctor.
I don't have that type ofschooling.
and I think it's helpful to havesomeone that they can talk to
and say, hey, this is going onand I can turn around and be
(28:46):
like, let me relay that to thedoctor, see what he says and it
just acts, as I'm an advocate alittle bit and it makes them
feel better, as well as I aid indoing all of the reprogramming
and making sure the system worksas well as it possibly can for
that patient.
Pat Kothe (29:03):
So who works on your Boston Scientific team within
your division?
Jordan Griffin (29:07):
For Wyoming, we had just hired another clinical
specialist, which is theposition I'm in.
And then we have a territorymanager, and then above that, we
have a regional businessdirector, which she covers most
of the West.
Pat Kothe (29:22):
And what are the, what is your role as opposed to
the territory manager?
Jordan Griffin (29:27):
So the territory manager would do more of the
Pricing and the business aspectthat he still does all of the
case coverage with us all of thereprogramming with us just
because this is a ruralterritory.
But he handles more of thecontracting more of, I said, the
business background.
Pat Kothe (29:44):
There's a couple of different ways that clinical
specialists, uh, have been usedhistorically within medical
device.
And one is just staying on theclinical track and being a
clinical specialist.
And other times it's an entryinto the sales territory
manager, sales track.
How is how are you viewing it?
Do you want to stay clinical?
Do you want to move into sales?
(30:05):
What's that look like?
Jordan Griffin (30:06):
For right now, I love being a clinical
specialist, um, because this ismore of a rural territory, I do
a little bit of both, so I'mobviously more clinically
minded, but then I also do havesome sales stuff going on.
Um, Boston does a very good jobfrom kind of the get go of.
Hey, which kind of route do youwant to take?
(30:27):
Cause there's also things thatyou can do as a clinical
specialist to up your clinicalspecialist skills.
but then if you want to go moresales minded, then they are
totally open to getting you indifferent training programs,
getting you in front ofdifferent people to prepare you
for that territory manager role.
At the moment, just cause I amso young and I do love what I
do, I plan on staying as aclinical specialist for at least
(30:50):
a couple of years.
Pat Kothe (30:51):
That's fantastic.
And Boston does such a nice jobof exposing people to different
tracks.
There's a lot of different waysthat you can go.
just make sure that you'retaking advantage of all of those
things that they're offering.
Because just as you learned incollege, there's, jobs that you
like and jobs that you don'tlike, and jobs that you like
(31:13):
better.
Jordan Griffin (31:13):
absolutely.
Pat Kothe (31:15):
So, so sometimes in our, in our careers, you know,
we, we, uh, can, can takeadvantage of some of these
things to discover, is that thedirection I want to go or not?
Because 10 years from now, youprobably are not going to be
doing what you're doing today.
Um, how do you, how do you, howdo you learn, you know, what,
what's going to be best for you?
Jordan Griffin (31:35):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Learn by experience.
Pat Kothe (31:39):
so you are, doing some things, you've talked about
your dad earlier aboutintegrating a business into a
life and you're kind of doingthat as well because you've got
patient stuff on patientschedule, on doctor's schedule,
a lot of driving in yourterritory.
So how do you fit your life intoyour job?
Jordan Griffin (32:01):
It's a balancing scale and it's never going to be
quite balanced out.
and there's going to be monthswhere you, like we had talked
about before, I was on the roadMonday through Friday, I think I
drove 20 hours or somethingcrazy that week and that wasn't
even with case coverage.
Um, but then there's some weeksthat you don't have really that
many cases and I'm say on mycomputer for a couple of hours
(32:22):
the day and then I'm going tothe gym or I'm going to play
golf or whatever it is.
So that's something that'slovely about this position is
that there are going to be thebusy weeks.
There are going to be the busymonths, but there's also going
to be the months where it's alittle bit more lax.
You catch up on all the emailsand you have some time to enjoy
it to yourself or with yourfamily, friends, significant
others, all that.
(32:43):
So it's tough, especially assomeone that's young in this
field, you just want to do asmuch as you possibly can.
And I think it's learning bytrial and error of how much you
can take on and how much you sitthere and you're like, Hey, I'm
not burned out.
I can keep going.
Or you're like, okay, I need totake a step back.
I think it's more of checking inwith yourself and checking in
(33:05):
with your team.
My manager does a fantastic jobof sitting there and he's Hey,
if you're burned out, we can sitdown and talk about it.
We'll plan out the next coupleof weeks where you take a step
back and then we'll get yourramp back up in a couple of
weeks when you're feeling up toit.
So I think it's about having agreat manager, having a great
support system, having aboyfriend at home that's
fantastic with that.
(33:26):
And having people cater to you alittle bit when you are working
really hard.
And then stepping off the gasfor a little bit and going back
on it in a couple of weeks.
Pat Kothe (33:35):
the concept of work life balance is a concept.
It's, it's never balanced.
It's always, And, you need tohave a mixed into your life, and
that's why your life gets mixedinto work, and works, get, gets
mixed into your life.
I'm sure if you get a call froma patient, their battery is
something going on, orsomething's happening, and it's,
9 o'clock at night, well that's,that's important, and you know
(33:59):
that, that needs, needs to be,needs to be dealt with.
So, you gotta move your life alittle bit to the side, but
there's also times where, youknow, like you said, you've got
a mental health issue, you needa mental health break, or you
Take a kid to a dentistappointment or something like
that.
I mean, you, you can move, youcan move your work schedule, as
well.
So it's never quite balanced.
(34:19):
Its integration.
Jordan Griffin (34:21):
Exactly.
And yeah, choosing that 9o'clock call.
I'll always take it and I willmake sure that patient's doing
well.
But say I get a text about somerandom question at 9 p.
m.
I'm probably going to wait until8 a.
m.
the next day or 7 a.
m.
to text them back.
Just to kind of give thatboundary a little bit.
And I'm always very clear andhonest with patients.
hey, if it's something emergent,just call me.
(34:42):
I will answer if it's pastworking hours or quote unquote
working hours.
There's not really working hoursfor this industry, but, um, but
if it's not something emergent,give me a text and I'll return
it as soon as I can.
Pat Kothe (34:53):
I'm not gonna ask you to speak for your generation,
but uh, you are on the, uh,younger side of things and,
there's been a lot talked about,written about with the
different.
generational groups and what'simportant to them.
in your conversations with yourpeers, what, how does, how does
(35:16):
medical device fit into, youknow, the, the changing
lifestyle and the changingexpectations that younger people
have for their careers?
Jordan Griffin (35:28):
This industry isn't gonna always have the nine
to five work balance that a lotof industries have.
You can find positions in thisindustry that have that.
But, to me, it's.
I always like to say, put thework in now and rest later.
that's just how my brain iswired.
I'm not so much of the type ofperson that's going to be, well,
(35:53):
I need to have every singleweekend off.
some weekends I'm working, someweekends I'm not.
And I'm fine with thatflexibility.
I'm fine with having days that Ican hang out at home, but then
also weeks where I'm not homeall week.
Um, so I think it really comesto the personality and what
you're looking for with thisindustry.
you're on call a lot.
(36:14):
You're answering emails andtexts.
There's always constantlysomething that you can be doing.
And if you like that atmosphere,then you'll love this industry.
If you don't like thatatmosphere, and you need
something different, that's moreschedulized, then this might not
be the best place to be.
But that's kind of how I look atit.
I know a lot of people in mygeneration probably look at it a
little differently, but that's,what's worked for me over the
(36:37):
years.
And that's probably what I'llstick to for a while.
Pat Kothe (36:41):
So I'm sure your friends that graduated with you
a few years back are spreadacross a lot of different
industries.
What have you heard back fromthem in terms of industry, you
know, different industries that,uh, that they've gone into and,
and, how does that compare withwhere you're at?
Jordan Griffin (36:59):
A lot of my friends went a hundred different
directions, like you said, and Ihaven't really heard of many
people that like hate theposition that they're in.
I think we are going through,like a restructuring kind of
deal in the job market with nowbeing able to work remote, being
more flexible on hours,sometimes trying to be more
(37:20):
accommodating.
But I have friends in themedical field being a nurse.
I have friends that are more inthe financial sector, marketing
sector and.
I think it's great now because,employers don't necessarily look
at someone's age.
They look at everything.
They look at them as a person.
They look at them as theireducation, what they did in high
(37:43):
school, stuff like that.
And I think there's a lot ofgreat companies out there
nowadays that you can getstarted with.
And then you can work your wayfrom the bottom all the way to
the top and be peachy keen atthe end of the day.
Pat Kothe (37:56):
So you work for a very large company right now,
and there's a whole bunch ofpeople that, that work in that
company with a lot of different,responsibilities.
Who do you, who do you interfacewith, um, in your normal day to
day?
Jordan Griffin (38:11):
My manager is someone I talk to probably four
times a day, at least once, butwe talk all the time.
And then now that we have hiredanother clinical specialist,
I'll talk to her probablymultiple times a day.
I am a big advocate for justcommunication, even if it's a
simple text, just lettingeveryone know what's going on.
Then I think a team runs moresmoothly, a company runs more
(38:33):
smoothly.
So that's usually who I'mchatting with.
Most of the time.
Pat Kothe (38:38):
Your manager's manager, your manager's manager,
marketing, anybody else?
Or is it primarily just yourteam?
Jordan Griffin (38:46):
I obviously talk to my team a lot, but I also, it
depends on the week, but I'musually reaching out to either
marketing inventory, um, helpingwith reimbursement stuff.
It's great because 9 times outof 10, if you have a question
that for me, it's mostly abovemy pay grade, I can reach out to
(39:06):
a manager or a regional manager.
And I'm going to say, hey, Ineed this question asked.
Who do I go to?
They send me an email or theysend a team that I can reach out
to.
So I'm, I would say on thenormal week, I am communicating
with a lot of teams outside ofmy direct team, which is
fantastic because with Boston,they have a team or a designated
(39:30):
person to help you with all ofthe everyday things that come
along with this job.
Pat Kothe (39:36):
So you entered the industry in 2020?
Jordan Griffin (39:41):
Yes, 2019, 2020.
Pat Kothe (39:44):
We all know what happened in 2020.
Jordan Griffin (39:46):
Yes,
Pat Kothe (39:47):
So you entered, you enter, entered at a, at a
unusual time and now thingshave, things have opened up.
Um, so.
Face to face, you didn't havethat opportunity to learn face
to face other than being in inEOR early on and now there's
some face to face activities andtraining and things like that so
(40:10):
when you moved over to Bostonwas it face to face training at
that point or was it stillremote stuff?
Jordan Griffin (40:15):
it was both.
so we did a couple weeks face toface, I want to say, and then a
couple weeks just like Zoomcalls and check in that way.
Pat Kothe (40:26):
And we talked about the training, that you received,
as a distributor and now thetraining you received as a
direct.
Was it, fulfilled a promise thatyou talked about where it's
built one, one brick at a timeand, and moved up?
Was it, was it a more, normallearning routine for you?
Jordan Griffin (40:46):
It was more of a learning routine.
I always tell people it was likea accelerated college course.
Boston does a fantastic job andthey are training team is just
amazing.
So it was more of a brick bybrick and over, I think it was 8
weeks long, by the end of those8 weeks, I was primed and I was
ready to go, and I felt awesome.
Pat Kothe (41:06):
So a lot of medical device companies have a lot of
veterans in there that have beenin the business for a long
period of time.
What do people of that age notknow about younger people coming
into the business?
Jordan Griffin (41:21):
It's not like they don't know that young
people are obviously trying toget into this industry.
I think when, um, you and my dadwere up and coming, it was more
of a networking thing of how toget into this industry.
And I think that is still true,but I think it is a little
different in, um, with thesereally large companies, they're
(41:42):
looking for kind of certainpeople.
They're looking with a bachelorsin X, Y, and Z.
They have some experience withsales, but for you guys, I think
it was different because if youcould show that you could sell
something, you could do medicaldevice sales.
And now, um, you see a lot ofreps that were previous nurses
or previous, some type ofclinical setting, um, and that's
(42:05):
helped them a lot being in theOR and getting that experience
early on.
Pat Kothe (42:09):
As I said earlier, there's a lot of different ways
you can be successful.
Someone with a clinicalbackground, I've seen that to be
extremely successful.
I've also seen it flame out.
Salespeople that are good in oneindustry and move into medical,
seen that be extremelysuccessful and flame out.
So there's a lot of differentways of doing that, and when
(42:31):
you're hiring and you've got aprofile of the person that
you're looking for, as we talkedabout earlier, Sometimes that
profile is so narrow that you'renever going to find that exact
person.
you have to make compromisesalong the way, even though this
is not exactly what I want, thisis what I want.
But, some people are, as yousaid, some people are, have got
(42:53):
a profile that's exactly whatthey want, and they're going to
go out and find it until theyget it.
It's not to say they're going tobe successful in that role, it's
just a profile that they'retrying to fill.
Jordan Griffin (43:04):
No question.
Pat Kothe (43:05):
Jordan, thanks so much for, this conversation for,
explaining what it's, what it'slike at the beginning of the
career and, and, uh, experienceswith a, uh, distributorship as
well as, early in, in, workingfor a world class, company.
Medical device is a greatprofession.
But I'm sure that you get a lotof people that come to you now
(43:27):
that you're in it and say, Hey,Jordan, what's it like to be in
medical device?
is that something that, that Ishould look into?
And is it something that, isgoing to be a good career move?
What do you tell him?
Jordan Griffin (43:42):
I tell him.
Absolutely.
I don't know if people realize,I think they're starting to
realize now that there's amillion different sectors of
quote, unquote, medical device.
it can be spine.
It can be ankle and joint.
It can be CPAP machines.
There's such a plethora ofthings and there's so many
different ways of looking at it,whether you're more of a
(44:02):
clinical setting and you're inthe OR, there's also reps that
are there out there that don'tstep foot into an OR, if that's
not something that you'reinterested in.
I think it's great if you likesales, if you like the kind of
hustle and bustle of that, Ithink it's an amazing industry
to be in.
You run into some of the mostamazing people in the world and
(44:22):
from patients, doctors, nursingstaff, hospital staff, I feel
very fulfilled at the end of theday because you're meeting
people, you're learning aboutthem, you're gaining even
experience and education fromthem, which always pushes me
forward.
So whenever someone asks me,should I do it?
I say, absolutely.
(44:42):
At least try it.
At least work for one of thecompanies.
There's a million medicaldevice, jobs out there and if
you know someone in medicaldevice, nine times out of ten,
they can help you a lot.
But I say go for it.
Always and always go for itbecause I've had an amazing time
and I will be here for a while.
Pat Kothe (45:01):
Our industry continues to renew itself.
As new people enter and learnthat this is one of the most
rewarding careers.
My thanks to Jordan for sharingyour thoughts on why it fits
with her and her life goals.
A few of my takeaways.
First the interviewing process.
(45:22):
Hiring criteria and profiles aregreat.
And I've used them in the pasttoo.
But also I've never met theperfect candidate.
So those hiring criteria,although you put them down, they
are not hard and fast rules.
They have to be things that areguidelines, not hard and fast
(45:42):
rules.
You will always find theexception.
And you will also find thatpeople can be successful in a
lot of different ways.
The other thing on the hiringprocesses, remember candidates
are interviewing you too.
So make sure that you'reproviding a great environment
(46:03):
and it's something that they'regoing to want to come to because
you're not only, interviewingthem, but they're, evaluating
whether you're going to be agood person to have in their
life and then in their career.
The second thing was trainingprograms.
And it's different when you area direct company and training
(46:24):
someone versus.
Versus when you've gotdistributors and training them.
But remember distributors arerepresenting your product too.
And don't you owe it to yourcustomers to train everyone, not
just your direct people?
There's going to be somelimitations with, uh, with
distributors.
You can't expect a distributorto come.
(46:45):
Uh, into your office for thatsix week course.
But what do you have in place totrain them?
And assure that they're properlytrained, given the limitations
of a distributor.
Make sure that your trainingprogram covers both your direct
people and your distributors andis quality and, and gives your
customers the quality that theydeserve.
(47:09):
Finally, many of us are parents.
And we know that our kids areimpacted by our professions too.
So Jordan is a child of amedical device professional, and
she noticed a good parts of whather dad's job was, and that's
what got her interested inmedical device.
(47:30):
So, if you believe in what youdo, and the career it offers to
you, share it with your kids.
They may find it's a good pathfor them too.
Thank you for listening.
Make sure you get episodesdownloaded to your device
automatically by liking orsubscribing to the Mastering
(47:50):
Medical Device podcast whereveryou get your podcasts.
Also, please spread the word andtell a friend or two to listen
to the Mastering Medical Devicepodcast.
As interviews like today's canhelp you become a more effective
medical device leader.
Work hard, be kind.
Welcome! This year, we've had some great discussions
with senior members of themedical device community.
Today, we're going to speak withsomeone that's a little more
junior, and who's at thebeginning of her career.
Our guest today is JordanGriffin, a Field Clinical
Specialist at Boston Scientific.
(00:51):
Jordan's no stranger to themedical device field, as her dad
owns a distributorship focusedon spinal implants.
But after working with him for awhile, she decided to blaze her
own trail and move to a newcompany and a new state.
In our conversation, we discusswhat it was like to be the
daughter of a busy, successfulsurgical distributor, product
(01:14):
and sales education and how itdiffers in direct and
distributor companies, managinga rural territory, how a
clinical specialist differs froma sales rep, and what it's like
to interview and break into alarge medical device company.
Here's our conversation.
(01:34):
Jordan, you were exposed to themedical device business for most
of your life.
please tell me, uh, what it waslike to be the daughter of a
spinal implant and painmanagement distributor.
Jordan Griffin (01:48):
My dad is an independent distributor for
spinal implants in Denver, soI've grown up in this industry
for a very long time.
He's going to dinners.
He's in cases all day.
And so I didn't really get ainkling for it until I was in
probably later years of highschool, and then college.
He was always talking to peoplealways interacting with people
(02:09):
going on dinner fun things andtrips And then I started to get
into it probably my freshmanyear and then did it through
college with one of hispartners.
So basically what I was doingwas just helping them out.
I was loading pans and droppingthem off at hospitals, doing
some case coverage and justtrying to be of assistance.
And that's where I really fellin love with it.
(02:31):
I am a very outgoing people,person and I just loved the
atmosphere, helping people aswell as having that social
aspect to it.
Pat Kothe (02:40):
some people, embrace what their parents do and say, I
want to do that.
Some people run away from it.
point did you start to reallyembrace it?
Because I imagine the dinnersand everything were at times
when you may have had thingsgoing on at school and dad
couldn't be there.
So, there was some of that thereas well, right?
Jordan Griffin (03:02):
Absolutely.
So I think I started to embraceit more when, his flexibility
came into picture a little bit.
He was say, in cases, mostlyTuesdays, Wednesdays, but then
he was doing other, at homestuff Thursday and Friday, and,
had more flexibility intraveling and stuff like that
and living a full life.
(03:22):
I worked a little bit in anorthopedic clinic doing kind of
more of that nine to five, and Ifigured out really quickly that
I wasn't built for it.
I love being up, moving around,going to different places, being
in the car and having a millionthings to do.
It's just the way I run, even ifsometimes it gets tiring, that's
just the way my mind is wired.
Pat Kothe (03:44):
So you started, as you said, running trays and
doing things, for your dad.
Tell me a little bit about whatyou learned.
about the business that wasdifferent than what you thought
it was, not being embeddedwithin it.
Jordan Griffin (03:58):
I was young and naive and I was like, oh, it's
all about just, case coverageand bringing the implants to the
case and bringing the pans andmake sure everything was in
order and it's so deeplyembedded now into the type of
person you are how well you getalong with people how well
you're able to spin aconversation and spin it into
(04:18):
the light of hey I havesomething that I can do for you
and I'd be happy to show you I'dbe happy to sell you something
or have you try something, aswell as just being, like I said,
like more of that people person.
If you can sit there and have aconversation with just about
anyone and kind of spin it in away that is either business
minded or more friendly minded,you're going to do well in this
(04:41):
kind of industry.
Being able to make friends andconnections I feel has really
driven me to be better, in thesetypes of positions because I
love talking to people, I lovebeing friends with people, I
love learning about people'slives and it takes a lot of
people skills, which I didn'treally realize from the get go.
Catering your conversation andbeing interested in people and
(05:03):
trying your best to just makesomeone's life easier or better.
it's very fulfilling.
Pat Kothe (05:10):
Part of it, it also is technical skill.
so with the particular spinalimplants that's being in
surgery, that's, being there,with instruments, with,
technique, different technique,suggestions, answering
questions.
so what about, uh, the training?
tell me a little bit about howyou, how you approach the
(05:32):
training from a distributorstandpoint, to learn surgical
skills.
Jordan Griffin (05:37):
It was a lot of it mixed together and then it
came out great in the end.
It was a lot of reaching out tothe companies that we had
represented at the time andseeing if I can get, time on
their training modules withtheir product.
As well as just watching casesand learning from the people
around you.
Learning from experience in thisindustry is crucial.
(05:58):
I learned that from a very youngage.
People have so much knowledge togive you and if you just sit
down and listen and then go homeand take notes on what you have
talked about, it's easier tothen turn around the next day
and realize how that looks.
I'm more of a person that needslike a one, two, three, four
step.
So when I was planning for casesI always go through exactly what
(06:19):
the doc's going to do, and studyhis technique.
Every neurosurgeon, if they'reorthopedic or not, will do
things a little bit differently,especially in the spine world.
And so if you can map outexactly the steps of they're
gonna do a laminectomy first,they're gonna obviously use
this, and this, then that waseasier for me to make sure I had
all the right instruments, allthe right implants, and just
(06:41):
kind of studying.
Studying that doctor, studyingthe other reps, and seeing what
they do.
There's a lot of weird tips andtricks in this field that you
catch on pretty quickly and thenthings start to become easier.
Pat Kothe (06:56):
So who's your inside person when you're doing that
learning?
Because just standing in, in theOR, you could pick some things
up, but you also need to havesomebody telling you what's
going on and helping you teach.
So who's your inside person,that aids you in that?
Jordan Griffin (07:12):
It's honestly a little bit of everyone.
so for an independentdistributor side, it's the
person that you're with, theperson that you're covering
cases with, as well as I had theluxury and my dad was sitting at
home, so I could go home and askhim a ton of questions about
what was going on, and he washappy to run through it with me
and really try to slow it downto make it where I could
(07:33):
understand where it would workin my brain.
direct does a little differentwhere they build the foundation
1st, and then you cover caseswith people.
and then that's how you learnthat way.
But I also ask doctors.
Doctors, 9 times out of 10 wouldlove to show you and tell you
why they're doing what they'redoing because at the end of the
day, they went through 12 plusyears of schooling for this and
(07:55):
they're one of the smartesthumans and they love teaching
people.
So sometimes if a doc doessomething that I haven't really
seen before, I'll just ask himand be like, Hey, is that
something that you usually do?
could I ask like, why you dothat?
Obviously being respectful andeverything like that, but.
It's really fun to learn from adoctor's perspective why they do
what they do and see what theirkind of method of the madness
(08:17):
is.
Pat Kothe (08:19):
I've heard many sales reps say, to clinicians, teach
me like I'm a resident.
can you please teach me like I'ma resident?
Take it from step one all theway through and then you're
getting that full why, not onlyhow, but the why.
so as you're picking this up, asyou said, a direct employee is
(08:41):
going to have, knowledge builtupon knowledge, but when you're
in a distributor, it's not quitethat way because you've got
multiple product lines, you'renot inside that company.
You're going to be picking upthings different.
what was most challenging aboutlearning that way?
Jordan Griffin (08:59):
It was challenging, because I'm a
little bit of a type Apersonality, so I love the like
solid training program.
I love the.
course that's super, super hardand really teaches you
everything you need to know.
independent distributorships aremore, you learn so much on
experience, which also taught megreat things because then I had
(09:21):
that more of that keen eye towatch out for things that are
super small, but also would playa huge factor in being a great
rep.
I think it's awesome if you'reable to do a little bit of both,
and try both sides.
Both sides obviously have prosand cons to them.
but being from an independentdistributor side, it is
challenging because you have,say, 6 different product lines
(09:44):
from 6 different companies, andit's just about studying all of
those companies are more thanwilling, to send out training
modules and marketing materialsand stuff like that.
And I think it gets put more onthe independent distributor side
of, you need to take theinitiative to learn that stuff,
learn the ins and outs of it,because if a doctor doesn't like
it, then you have theavailability to switch to a
(10:06):
different company, which is alsoamazing and a super good selling
point.
Pat Kothe (10:11):
So out of those six or ten companies, however many
that you're dealing with, I'msure some of them had very good,
training programs fordistributors and some not so
good.
I'm not going to ask you to tellme which companies had the good
ones, but of the good ones, whatwas it that they did
(10:32):
particularly well?
Jordan Griffin (10:34):
some of those companies that did really well
were the ones that firstprovided you with some type of
online platform of watchingvideos and reading stuff to
really just get the technicalaspects of their product, how
they're used and stuff likethat.
And then there was a companythat would send out a direct rep
or have you meet with a directrep and, they would go through
(10:55):
it as well with someone like me.
It was.
I was more of an associate, so Ididn't do a ton of training.
I was more of like a helpinghand.
but for someone like my dad andhis coworkers, they obviously
know tons more of informationabout these companies and really
strive to know everything aboutthem.
so it was more put on them atthe end of the day after cases
(11:16):
and stuff like that, that my dadwas sitting on the computer and
he was going through histraining modules.
He was on the phone with theregional manager or whoever
talking, asking questions,taking notes, stuff like that.
And especially he's such aseasoned person in the industry
that he knows what it takes tolearn and make sure that he's
(11:36):
adequate in his productdescriptions and everything.
Pat Kothe (11:40):
So as an associate rep, as you said, you're not in
the case by yourself, all thetime.
You may be occasionally in thecase by yourself.
What was that like when youdidn't have complete knowledge,
but you were in that case byyourself?
Jordan Griffin (12:00):
I was praying to God nothing went wrong.
I I was sitting there praying toGod that nothing went wrong
and...
some of the docs that we, evenif I was in the case for an hour
by myself or something likethat, most of them knew our
product very well.
They had been working with mydad or his partner for years.
So, I was banking on the ideathat he wouldn't look up and ask
(12:21):
me a question and he wouldoccasionally just because he was
a jokester are kind of guy, butI was just sitting there paying
attention as best as I possiblycould and helping wherever I
could.
If that was the scrub tech orthe circulating nurse, and yeah,
just making sure that nothingwent wrong because there's
something did.
Oh, no.
Pat Kothe (12:39):
Have you had the occasion to have something go
wrong and you didn't know theanswer?
Jordan Griffin (12:45):
Oh, absolutely.
I think it happens to everysingle rep.
I don't think I can think oflike a specific time, but
there's always going to be thatday where you're just a little
off.
Your brain is somewhere else andyou tell a doctor how to use a
product wrong or you dosomething so simple.
I'm always the person that willrealize what had happened
(13:05):
probably 10 minutes after it'shappened and then I'll sit down
the dock and be like, hey, I amI'm so sorry.
I was off my game X, Y, and Z.
And if you're just upfront andhonest, it's usually going to
work out a lot better because.
Like I said before, these peopleare incredibly smart.
You're not going to outsmartthem, and they probably know at
the end of the day what happenedand whose fault or whose fault
(13:28):
it technically is.
when it has happened to me, Ialways just turn around and
apologize and say, it'll neverhappen again.
Pat Kothe (13:36):
Yeah, I think, a couple of things there.
First of all, if you're not anexperienced rep, Prep them, say,
Hey, I'm going through myeducation.
There may be some questions thatI absolutely know.
And there's going to be somequestions that I don't know.
If you, if you ask me a questionand I'm not a hundred percent
sure, I'm going to tell you, I'mnot a hundred percent sure.
(13:56):
You're setting yourself up forsuccess that way, because the
worst thing you can do is,you're setting yourself up for
failure.
Try and answer a question thatyou don't know.
Because there's a patient on thetable.
Jordan Griffin (14:09):
And that, at the end of the day, that's the most
important.
And actually, the company that Iwork for now taught me that too.
It's just, if you don't know it,that's okay.
you're not going to knoweverything at the end of the
day, and if you sit there andyou're just, again, upfront and
honest and say, Hey, I'm, I willcheck on that as soon as we're
out of this case, or as soon aswe have a second, I'll text
someone that does know that andI will figure it out for you.
Pat Kothe (14:32):
Yeah, and I've been in, in an office.
I was running a marketingdepartment in the office and the
phone rings and it's somebodythat's in surgery with a surgeon
saying they have a questionhere.
I can't answer it.
Can you answer this?
the patient's on the table.
Bang.
You're right.
You're right there.
So you're able to find peoplethat have the answers.
(14:55):
Make sure that you know, who it,who it's supposed to be that has
the answers, that has, has thatbackup and you can serve your
customers, that way.
Jordan Griffin (15:03):
Speed dial.
Pat Kothe (15:05):
Yeah.
So at, at some point in time youdecided, that, you wanted to do
something else, other thanworking with your dad.
So what was that all about?
What, what were you thinking atthat point where you moved out
of, out of your dad'sdistributorship?
Jordan Griffin (15:19):
It was.
Such a good experience.
I was surrounded by the bestpeople.
but I sat back on myself and Iwas like, Hey, you have a direct
line into this industry and moreof a coming from a pride
standpoint, I wanted to makesure I could cut my teeth in
this industry without having thehelp of my dad.
I know I had the experience fromhim and all of that kind of
(15:40):
stuff, so my resume was awesome,but I wanted to make sure that I
could work under someone elseand work for more of a corporate
company.
I had a lot of dreams andaspirations.
Once I finally graduated collegeand was out in the world, I
wanted to cut my own teeth andmake sure that I still had the
personality and the brain tomake it in this field, because
it is tough.
Pat Kothe (16:01):
you started to look for other opportunities.
What was that like?
How did you do it?
Jordan Griffin (16:07):
My, go to thing to say is interviews are great
experience and great, things tojust get into.
So I applied for everything.
I applied for associate, spinereps.
I applied for regular spinereps.
I applied for, total joint, likethe whole nine yards.
I just wanted to get somewhereinto it.
(16:28):
It was going to be nice if itwas some bigger company that I
could move up in, but I juststarted applying and then
interview after interview andtried to stay in Colorado.
But, When I was just throwingout all the resumes, cover
letters and stuff, I had arecruiter reach out to me, set
up an interview and went fromthere.
Pat Kothe (16:48):
what's the process like?
Uh, what was the process like?
you interviewed severaldifferent, companies.
One interview, five interviews,eight interviews, how many
people?
What's the process look liketoday?
Jordan Griffin (17:00):
So honestly, it depends on every single company
and where you're at.
With a metropolitan city,obviously you're going to have
more interviews because theyhave more candidates.
For a bigger, medical devicecompany, I did, I think the most
I did was six interviews.
And I had a personality test aswell.
And then I had other interviewswhere they had offered me a job
(17:23):
after an interview with thedirect manager and the regional.
It honestly differs a lot and Ithink it differs on the position
you're looking at the place thatyou're looking at and your
experience.
Pat Kothe (17:38):
Do you have any, interesting interview stories,
people asking you strangequestions or asking you to sell
a pencil or, any, things thatyou found interesting?
Jordan Griffin (17:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
So a very large medical devicecompany I ended up interviewing
with.
And after, oh, my gosh, I metwith so many people on that
interview.
I met with, the direct manager,the regional, HR, the whole nine
yards and everyone had told methat the interviews went great.
I was really excited because Ihad worked with this company
(18:07):
previously.
Then I ended up failing thepersonality test.
So the last part of thatinterview was a personality test
and I am not sure how you fail apersonality test if I'm being
honest, but they do apersonality test to make sure
you fit into the ideals of therest of the company, and way or
another, I did not fit into theideals and I, still to this day,
(18:30):
I would love to know my results,but they were like, I'm really
sorry.
We're just done with theinterview process.
You didn't fit our personalitytest.
And I was like, does that mean Ifailed a personality test?
And they're like, unfortunately,yes.
And I thought that was veryinteresting.
Pat Kothe (18:46):
It is, it is really interesting, um, When you have
tests like that and interpretingthose tests and, having criteria
based on those tests.
There is some science involvedwith that.
certain personalities, uh, mayhave a greater propensity or
higher probability of success.
(19:06):
But you can have success in alot of different ways.
And I've always found those hardand fast rules to be, um, Less
than ideal or less than usefulbecause you're taking a lot of
people who are going to besuccessful on their own with
their own personality.
They know themselves, and theyknow how to get things done.
(19:27):
It may be different than whattheir quote unquote ideal
personality looks like.
But like I said, you can besuccessful in a lot of different
ways.
Jordan Griffin (19:37):
Yeah, no question.
Pat Kothe (19:38):
Unfortunately that's something that, that some
companies do, and sometimes youget bounced out for things that
you don't understand, but it'slike sales, isn't it?
some sales situations you getbounced out and told no.
And it doesn't make any sense toyou, but that's kind of the
game.
I've always said that, if youinterview too much, you get good
(19:59):
at interviewing, and that's notnecessarily a good thing.
Did you feel like you wereinterviewing too much?
Did you feel yourself gettingbetter at interviewing?
Jordan Griffin (20:09):
I did feel that I got better at interviewing,
but I think it was a good thing.
I totally get where you'recoming from, of like, you know
how to answer those questionsnow.
Um, but it honestly just made memore confident.
I was fresh out of college.
I was, 22 years old and it washard for me to talk to people
that I didn't know and tell themeverything about my life and why
(20:31):
they should hire me over a 15minute phone call.
So the one thing that I will sayis that interviews made me be
able to sell myself a little bitmore and be more confident in
what I was saying and what Iwould be providing to that
company and providing to thetable.
Pat Kothe (20:48):
So tell me a little bit about the interviewers.
what did you learn through theprocess about the people who are
asking the questions?
Jordan Griffin (20:55):
It ranged a little bit, company to company.
It was a little bit different,but there were companies that
you could tell that they weremore focused on what you were
going to do in a sales aspect ofthem.
Um, which is totally fine.
Cause a lot of companies aregoing to do that.
They want to make money.
Everyone does.
Um, but then I also hadinterview people call me and
they were more interested inboth aspects of who I was as a
(21:19):
person, how was I going tofunction on a team with someone
as well as what I was going tobe able to bring to the table as
a sales quota and all of thatgood stuff.
Pat Kothe (21:29):
So they have different criteria, they have
different, skills that they wantto assess during that process
based on what the position is.
So you may not have knownexactly what the position was,
but as you're interviewing,you're getting a better idea
what they value.
Jordan Griffin (21:46):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Pat Kothe (21:48):
Could you also tell the personality of the person
asking the questions?
Jordan Griffin (21:52):
Yeah.
I think with doing a bunch ofinterviews, being around this
world for a while, it's easiernow for me to sit and talk to
someone and get that like goodvibe almost from them.
And so that was really greatwhen you would run into
interviewing people that couldjust sit there and have a
conversation with you, becausethey're feeling you out as much
as you're feeling them out.
(22:13):
And if you're comfy and you fitthe job description and stuff
like that, it's easy.
Because you're like, wow, I canget along with this team.
The company seems like they havegreat values and they value the
people that actually work forthem.
Rather than just the number thatthey're going to bring in at the
end of the year.
so that's something that Ireally looked for as well.
And that was something that mydad had told me.
(22:35):
He was like, you want to behired by someone that at the end
of the day that you like, thatyou want to work for, that you
want to work hard for, becauseit makes your job a lot easier.
And it makes it a lot moreenjoyable.
Pat Kothe (22:46):
There's many different interviewing
strategies, but one strategy isa stress interview and, see how
somebody does it.
another strategy is, be thefriend.
And, you want to make thatperson very comfortable because
you want them to let their guarddown and tell you things that
they normally wouldn't tell you.
So, that is also something tokeep in mind as you're having
(23:06):
that conversation is, whatexactly are, are you sharing?
Is it appropriate?
I like that strategy and I likeit because you're getting the
real person.
And if you're guarded in yourinterview and you're not telling
them exactly who you are andwhat's important to you, they're
going to find out.
If you hire them, they're goingto find out anyways.
So it really becomes, is it agood fit between you and that
(23:26):
person, and if somebody is ajerk in an interview, you're not
going to want to work for themanyways.
Jordan Griffin (23:33):
Exactly.
You know that your life is notgoing to be very fun after that.
Pat Kothe (23:37):
So you, you, uh, you end up, uh, landing in a
position with an excellentcompany.
Uh, so tell me a little bitabout what, what you're doing
now.
Jordan Griffin (23:47):
I now work for Boston Scientific as a clinical
specialist for theirneuromodulation team.
it's been absolutely fantastic.
I love this company to absolutedeath.
The people around me arefantastic.
Now that I'm in Wyoming, thingsare different than when I worked
medical device in more of ametropolitan city.
but I really can't complain.
It's been amazing.
(24:09):
I've been here for, it'sactually been a year now.
This month will be a year.
So far, so good.
And hopefully we'll continue on.
Pat Kothe (24:18):
So moving from, as you said, an urban area to, to a
non or very non urban area is abig change, not only for, your
life, but also medicine ispractice a little bit different
in, in more rural areas.
So what were some of the, thebig changes that you saw from a
medical standpoint, from, thehustle of, of an urban area to a
(24:43):
little bit more relaxed
Jordan Griffin (24:44):
the rural medicine world is definitely
different.
A lot of doctors travel a lotmore than they would in a
metropolitan city.
So they're covering multiplecities, practicing medicine
there.
This can, it depends on thedoctor's life, but it can be
great or it can be a downfall.
The medicine is a lot morepersonalized because there's
just not as big as a populationin Wyoming.
(25:06):
There's still a ton of doctorshere, but it's just not as big.
You get more of a personalizedexperience.
Some of these doctors that Iwork with, they are just salt of
the earth.
They are the nicest humanbeings.
They are here purely becausethey love this state and they
love the life that they live.
And it's just an added bonusthat they get to treat people
and help people.
Pat Kothe (25:26):
the products that you're representing, tell me a
little bit about the patientneed, what the patient is going
through, and what your productdelivers.
Jordan Griffin (25:36):
We focus on chronic pain.
We focus on patients that havegone through every single outlet
trying to, cope with theirchronic pain, help it in any
way.
And we're kind of end of theline.
Uh, we do spinal cordstimulation.
Which is something that getsimplanted in your epidural space
and then blocks the neuralactivity or neural indicators
(25:57):
from going to your brain thatyou have pain going on.
Basically what happens is theygo through a trial period where
they try the system and atleast, hopefully 50 percent or
more of their pain is reduced.
That's considered a successfultrial.
And then from there they go forpermanent implant where they
get, uh, leads permanentlyplaced in their epidural space.
(26:19):
It's usually thoracic spine,depending on their pain pattern.
And then they get a littlebattery about the size of an
Oreo cookie and they have aremote to it and they turn on
stimulation, which is kind of,it's like a tens unit on
steroids.
So I just focus on patients thathave failed back surgeries.
They've had radial ablation.
They've had injections.
They've had everything to managechronic pain, and they can't
(26:44):
figure anything else out.
We focus 100 percent on nervepain.
I have a lot more patientinteraction than I do for spinal
implants.
so I'm there with them allthroughout the trial.
I'm then waiting for them to getpermanently implanted.
They're setting upreprogrammings with me, the
(27:04):
whole nine yards.
You just have more of arelationship with the patient.
And it's really great becauseyou can help the doctor and more
create a team aspect to helpthis patient the best that we
possibly can.
Pat Kothe (27:16):
Yeah, it's different than a lot of medical devices.
Medical devices, a lot of themare, you're talking to the
clinician, and you're talking tothe hospital administrators,
supply chain people and that'syour call point.
And the patient may be on thetable, but you're really not,
talking to the patient, notinteracting, not educating the
(27:37):
patient.
Your business is different, inthat, you do have that patient
interaction.
So in dealing with patients andclinicians, tell me a little bit
about how that works.
Are you talking to the patientas a independent company, are
you talking to them as anextension of the clinician's
(27:59):
team?
How are you, How are you talkingto the patients?
Jordan Griffin (28:03):
I really try to talk to them in more of an
aspect of, I'm an extension ofthe office.
I'm the extension of a doctor,just to make them feel that they
have, which they do, they have amore of a patient care team.
Um, Boston provides fantasticresources for patients.
we have a patient educationteam.
We have a, call line that theycan call if they have trouble
(28:25):
with their device, as well asthey have our personal phone
numbers, and obviously doctor'soffices and stuff like that.
I become more of a call pointfor those patients because I'm
not a doctor.
I don't have that type ofschooling.
and I think it's helpful to havesomeone that they can talk to
and say, hey, this is going onand I can turn around and be
(28:46):
like, let me relay that to thedoctor, see what he says and it
just acts, as I'm an advocate alittle bit and it makes them
feel better, as well as I aid indoing all of the reprogramming
and making sure the system worksas well as it possibly can for
that patient.
Pat Kothe (29:03):
So who works on your Boston Scientific team within
your division?
Jordan Griffin (29:07):
For Wyoming, we had just hired another clinical
specialist, which is theposition I'm in.
And then we have a territorymanager, and then above that, we
have a regional businessdirector, which she covers most
of the West.
Pat Kothe (29:22):
And what are the, what is your role as opposed to
the territory manager?
Jordan Griffin (29:27):
So the territory manager would do more of the
Pricing and the business aspectthat he still does all of the
case coverage with us all of thereprogramming with us just
because this is a ruralterritory.
But he handles more of thecontracting more of, I said, the
business background.
Pat Kothe (29:44):
There's a couple of different ways that clinical
specialists, uh, have been usedhistorically within medical
device.
And one is just staying on theclinical track and being a
clinical specialist.
And other times it's an entryinto the sales territory
manager, sales track.
How is how are you viewing it?
Do you want to stay clinical?
Do you want to move into sales?
(30:05):
What's that look like?
Jordan Griffin (30:06):
For right now, I love being a clinical
specialist, um, because this ismore of a rural territory, I do
a little bit of both, so I'mobviously more clinically
minded, but then I also do havesome sales stuff going on.
Um, Boston does a very good jobfrom kind of the get go of.
Hey, which kind of route do youwant to take?
(30:27):
Cause there's also things thatyou can do as a clinical
specialist to up your clinicalspecialist skills.
but then if you want to go moresales minded, then they are
totally open to getting you indifferent training programs,
getting you in front ofdifferent people to prepare you
for that territory manager role.
At the moment, just cause I amso young and I do love what I
do, I plan on staying as aclinical specialist for at least
(30:50):
a couple of years.
Pat Kothe (30:51):
That's fantastic.
And Boston does such a nice jobof exposing people to different
tracks.
There's a lot of different waysthat you can go.
just make sure that you'retaking advantage of all of those
things that they're offering.
Because just as you learned incollege, there's, jobs that you
like and jobs that you don'tlike, and jobs that you like
(31:13):
better.
Jordan Griffin (31:13):
absolutely.
Pat Kothe (31:15):
So, so sometimes in our, in our careers, you know,
we, we, uh, can, can takeadvantage of some of these
things to discover, is that thedirection I want to go or not?
Because 10 years from now, youprobably are not going to be
doing what you're doing today.
Um, how do you, how do you, howdo you learn, you know, what,
what's going to be best for you?
Jordan Griffin (31:35):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Learn by experience.
Pat Kothe (31:39):
so you are, doing some things, you've talked about
your dad earlier aboutintegrating a business into a
life and you're kind of doingthat as well because you've got
patient stuff on patientschedule, on doctor's schedule,
a lot of driving in yourterritory.
So how do you fit your life intoyour job?
Jordan Griffin (32:01):
It's a balancing scale and it's never going to be
quite balanced out.
and there's going to be monthswhere you, like we had talked
about before, I was on the roadMonday through Friday, I think I
drove 20 hours or somethingcrazy that week and that wasn't
even with case coverage.
Um, but then there's some weeksthat you don't have really that
many cases and I'm say on mycomputer for a couple of hours
(32:22):
the day and then I'm going tothe gym or I'm going to play
golf or whatever it is.
So that's something that'slovely about this position is
that there are going to be thebusy weeks.
There are going to be the busymonths, but there's also going
to be the months where it's alittle bit more lax.
You catch up on all the emailsand you have some time to enjoy
it to yourself or with yourfamily, friends, significant
others, all that.
(32:43):
So it's tough, especially assomeone that's young in this
field, you just want to do asmuch as you possibly can.
And I think it's learning bytrial and error of how much you
can take on and how much you sitthere and you're like, Hey, I'm
not burned out.
I can keep going.
Or you're like, okay, I need totake a step back.
I think it's more of checking inwith yourself and checking in
(33:05):
with your team.
My manager does a fantastic jobof sitting there and he's Hey,
if you're burned out, we can sitdown and talk about it.
We'll plan out the next coupleof weeks where you take a step
back and then we'll get yourramp back up in a couple of
weeks when you're feeling up toit.
So I think it's about having agreat manager, having a great
support system, having aboyfriend at home that's
fantastic with that.
(33:26):
And having people cater to you alittle bit when you are working
really hard.
And then stepping off the gasfor a little bit and going back
on it in a couple of weeks.
Pat Kothe (33:35):
the concept of work life balance is a concept.
It's, it's never balanced.
It's always, And, you need tohave a mixed into your life, and
that's why your life gets mixedinto work, and works, get, gets
mixed into your life.
I'm sure if you get a call froma patient, their battery is
something going on, orsomething's happening, and it's,
9 o'clock at night, well that's,that's important, and you know
(33:59):
that, that needs, needs to be,needs to be dealt with.
So, you gotta move your life alittle bit to the side, but
there's also times where, youknow, like you said, you've got
a mental health issue, you needa mental health break, or you
Take a kid to a dentistappointment or something like
that.
I mean, you, you can move, youcan move your work schedule, as
well.
So it's never quite balanced.
(34:19):
Its integration.
Jordan Griffin (34:21):
Exactly.
And yeah, choosing that 9o'clock call.
I'll always take it and I willmake sure that patient's doing
well.
But say I get a text about somerandom question at 9 p.
m.
I'm probably going to wait until8 a.
m.
the next day or 7 a.
m.
to text them back.
Just to kind of give thatboundary a little bit.
And I'm always very clear andhonest with patients.
hey, if it's something emergent,just call me.
(34:42):
I will answer if it's pastworking hours or quote unquote
working hours.
There's not really working hoursfor this industry, but, um, but
if it's not something emergent,give me a text and I'll return
it as soon as I can.
Pat Kothe (34:53):
I'm not gonna ask you to speak for your generation,
but uh, you are on the, uh,younger side of things and,
there's been a lot talked about,written about with the
different.
generational groups and what'simportant to them.
in your conversations with yourpeers, what, how does, how does
(35:16):
medical device fit into, youknow, the, the changing
lifestyle and the changingexpectations that younger people
have for their careers?
Jordan Griffin (35:28):
This industry isn't gonna always have the nine
to five work balance that a lotof industries have.
You can find positions in thisindustry that have that.
But, to me, it's.
I always like to say, put thework in now and rest later.
that's just how my brain iswired.
I'm not so much of the type ofperson that's going to be, well,
(35:53):
I need to have every singleweekend off.
some weekends I'm working, someweekends I'm not.
And I'm fine with thatflexibility.
I'm fine with having days that Ican hang out at home, but then
also weeks where I'm not homeall week.
Um, so I think it really comesto the personality and what
you're looking for with thisindustry.
you're on call a lot.
(36:14):
You're answering emails andtexts.
There's always constantlysomething that you can be doing.
And if you like that atmosphere,then you'll love this industry.
If you don't like thatatmosphere, and you need
something different, that's moreschedulized, then this might not
be the best place to be.
But that's kind of how I look atit.
I know a lot of people in mygeneration probably look at it a
little differently, but that's,what's worked for me over the
(36:37):
years.
And that's probably what I'llstick to for a while.
Pat Kothe (36:41):
So I'm sure your friends that graduated with you
a few years back are spreadacross a lot of different
industries.
What have you heard back fromthem in terms of industry, you
know, different industries that,uh, that they've gone into and,
and, how does that compare withwhere you're at?
Jordan Griffin (36:59):
A lot of my friends went a hundred different
directions, like you said, and Ihaven't really heard of many
people that like hate theposition that they're in.
I think we are going through,like a restructuring kind of
deal in the job market with nowbeing able to work remote, being
more flexible on hours,sometimes trying to be more
(37:20):
accommodating.
But I have friends in themedical field being a nurse.
I have friends that are more inthe financial sector, marketing
sector and.
I think it's great now because,employers don't necessarily look
at someone's age.
They look at everything.
They look at them as a person.
They look at them as theireducation, what they did in high
(37:43):
school, stuff like that.
And I think there's a lot ofgreat companies out there
nowadays that you can getstarted with.
And then you can work your wayfrom the bottom all the way to
the top and be peachy keen atthe end of the day.
Pat Kothe (37:56):
So you work for a very large company right now,
and there's a whole bunch ofpeople that, that work in that
company with a lot of different,responsibilities.
Who do you, who do you interfacewith, um, in your normal day to
day?
Jordan Griffin (38:11):
My manager is someone I talk to probably four
times a day, at least once, butwe talk all the time.
And then now that we have hiredanother clinical specialist,
I'll talk to her probablymultiple times a day.
I am a big advocate for justcommunication, even if it's a
simple text, just lettingeveryone know what's going on.
Then I think a team runs moresmoothly, a company runs more
(38:33):
smoothly.
So that's usually who I'mchatting with.
Most of the time.
Pat Kothe (38:38):
Your manager's manager, your manager's manager,
marketing, anybody else?
Or is it primarily just yourteam?
Jordan Griffin (38:46):
I obviously talk to my team a lot, but I also, it
depends on the week, but I'musually reaching out to either
marketing inventory, um, helpingwith reimbursement stuff.
It's great because 9 times outof 10, if you have a question
that for me, it's mostly abovemy pay grade, I can reach out to
(39:06):
a manager or a regional manager.
And I'm going to say, hey, Ineed this question asked.
Who do I go to?
They send me an email or theysend a team that I can reach out
to.
So I'm, I would say on thenormal week, I am communicating
with a lot of teams outside ofmy direct team, which is
fantastic because with Boston,they have a team or a designated
(39:30):
person to help you with all ofthe everyday things that come
along with this job.
Pat Kothe (39:36):
So you entered the industry in 2020?
Jordan Griffin (39:41):
Yes, 2019, 2020.
Pat Kothe (39:44):
We all know what happened in 2020.
Jordan Griffin (39:46):
Yes,
Pat Kothe (39:47):
So you entered, you enter, entered at a, at a
unusual time and now thingshave, things have opened up.
Um, so.
Face to face, you didn't havethat opportunity to learn face
to face other than being in inEOR early on and now there's
some face to face activities andtraining and things like that so
(40:10):
when you moved over to Bostonwas it face to face training at
that point or was it stillremote stuff?
Jordan Griffin (40:15):
it was both.
so we did a couple weeks face toface, I want to say, and then a
couple weeks just like Zoomcalls and check in that way.
Pat Kothe (40:26):
And we talked about the training, that you received,
as a distributor and now thetraining you received as a
direct.
Was it, fulfilled a promise thatyou talked about where it's
built one, one brick at a timeand, and moved up?
Was it, was it a more, normallearning routine for you?
Jordan Griffin (40:46):
It was more of a learning routine.
I always tell people it was likea accelerated college course.
Boston does a fantastic job andthey are training team is just
amazing.
So it was more of a brick bybrick and over, I think it was 8
weeks long, by the end of those8 weeks, I was primed and I was
ready to go, and I felt awesome.
Pat Kothe (41:06):
So a lot of medical device companies have a lot of
veterans in there that have beenin the business for a long
period of time.
What do people of that age notknow about younger people coming
into the business?
Jordan Griffin (41:21):
It's not like they don't know that young
people are obviously trying toget into this industry.
I think when, um, you and my dadwere up and coming, it was more
of a networking thing of how toget into this industry.
And I think that is still true,but I think it is a little
different in, um, with thesereally large companies, they're
(41:42):
looking for kind of certainpeople.
They're looking with a bachelorsin X, Y, and Z.
They have some experience withsales, but for you guys, I think
it was different because if youcould show that you could sell
something, you could do medicaldevice sales.
And now, um, you see a lot ofreps that were previous nurses
or previous, some type ofclinical setting, um, and that's
(42:05):
helped them a lot being in theOR and getting that experience
early on.
Pat Kothe (42:09):
As I said earlier, there's a lot of different ways
you can be successful.
Someone with a clinicalbackground, I've seen that to be
extremely successful.
I've also seen it flame out.
Salespeople that are good in oneindustry and move into medical,
seen that be extremelysuccessful and flame out.
So there's a lot of differentways of doing that, and when
(42:31):
you're hiring and you've got aprofile of the person that
you're looking for, as we talkedabout earlier, Sometimes that
profile is so narrow that you'renever going to find that exact
person.
you have to make compromisesalong the way, even though this
is not exactly what I want, thisis what I want.
But, some people are, as yousaid, some people are, have got
(42:53):
a profile that's exactly whatthey want, and they're going to
go out and find it until theyget it.
It's not to say they're going tobe successful in that role, it's
just a profile that they'retrying to fill.
Jordan Griffin (43:04):
No question.
Pat Kothe (43:05):
Jordan, thanks so much for, this conversation for,
explaining what it's, what it'slike at the beginning of the
career and, and, uh, experienceswith a, uh, distributorship as
well as, early in, in, workingfor a world class, company.
Medical device is a greatprofession.
But I'm sure that you get a lotof people that come to you now
(43:27):
that you're in it and say, Hey,Jordan, what's it like to be in
medical device?
is that something that, that Ishould look into?
And is it something that, isgoing to be a good career move?
What do you tell him?
Jordan Griffin (43:42):
I tell him.
Absolutely.
I don't know if people realize,I think they're starting to
realize now that there's amillion different sectors of
quote, unquote, medical device.
it can be spine.
It can be ankle and joint.
It can be CPAP machines.
There's such a plethora ofthings and there's so many
different ways of looking at it,whether you're more of a
(44:02):
clinical setting and you're inthe OR, there's also reps that
are there out there that don'tstep foot into an OR, if that's
not something that you'reinterested in.
I think it's great if you likesales, if you like the kind of
hustle and bustle of that, Ithink it's an amazing industry
to be in.
You run into some of the mostamazing people in the world and
(44:22):
from patients, doctors, nursingstaff, hospital staff, I feel
very fulfilled at the end of theday because you're meeting
people, you're learning aboutthem, you're gaining even
experience and education fromthem, which always pushes me
forward.
So whenever someone asks me,should I do it?
I say, absolutely.
(44:42):
At least try it.
At least work for one of thecompanies.
There's a million medicaldevice, jobs out there and if
you know someone in medicaldevice, nine times out of ten,
they can help you a lot.
But I say go for it.
Always and always go for itbecause I've had an amazing time
and I will be here for a while.
Pat Kothe (45:01):
Our industry continues to renew itself.
As new people enter and learnthat this is one of the most
rewarding careers.
My thanks to Jordan for sharingyour thoughts on why it fits
with her and her life goals.
A few of my takeaways.
First the interviewing process.
(45:22):
Hiring criteria and profiles aregreat.
And I've used them in the pasttoo.
But also I've never met theperfect candidate.
So those hiring criteria,although you put them down, they
are not hard and fast rules.
They have to be things that areguidelines, not hard and fast
(45:42):
rules.
You will always find theexception.
And you will also find thatpeople can be successful in a
lot of different ways.
The other thing on the hiringprocesses, remember candidates
are interviewing you too.
So make sure that you'reproviding a great environment
(46:03):
and it's something that they'regoing to want to come to because
you're not only, interviewingthem, but they're, evaluating
whether you're going to be agood person to have in their
life and then in their career.
The second thing was trainingprograms.
And it's different when you area direct company and training
(46:24):
someone versus.
Versus when you've gotdistributors and training them.
But remember distributors arerepresenting your product too.
And don't you owe it to yourcustomers to train everyone, not
just your direct people?
There's going to be somelimitations with, uh, with
distributors.
You can't expect a distributorto come.
(46:45):
Uh, into your office for thatsix week course.
But what do you have in place totrain them?
And assure that they're properlytrained, given the limitations
of a distributor.
Make sure that your trainingprogram covers both your direct
people and your distributors andis quality and, and gives your
customers the quality that theydeserve.
(47:09):
Finally, many of us are parents.
And we know that our kids areimpacted by our professions too.
So Jordan is a child of amedical device professional, and
she noticed a good parts of whather dad's job was, and that's
what got her interested inmedical device.
(47:30):
So, if you believe in what youdo, and the career it offers to
you, share it with your kids.
They may find it's a good pathfor them too.
Thank you for listening.
Make sure you get episodesdownloaded to your device
automatically by liking orsubscribing to the Mastering
(47:50):
Medical Device podcast whereveryou get your podcasts.
Also, please spread the word andtell a friend or two to listen
to the Mastering Medical Devicepodcast.
As interviews like today's canhelp you become a more effective
medical device leader.
Work hard, be kind.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!