MMS #134 - Redefining the PIP: A New Playbook for Sales Growth with JD Miller - Mastering Modern Selling

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
I

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
got it.
We'll go.
I'll let you leave.

SPEAKER_03 (00:18):
Here we are.
Every single time, we just startdancing.

SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Amazing.
I love it.
It's very cool.
You just get rolling, and thenit stops, though.
I need the whole

SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
song.
I need

SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
the whole song.
We need the whole song.
I don't know if anybody would

SPEAKER_01 (00:32):
stay for the whole song.
I propose we leverage AI to goback and pull all of our old
episodes and write an actualsong with lyrics for that.

SPEAKER_03 (00:42):
There

SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
you go.
We could have a special episodewhere we introduce that, and
then we do the video with it,the music.
I think that could be a hit.
Man,

SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
rock stars.
Rock stars, here we come.

SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
That's right.
All right.
Now we can get back to the realworld.
Speaking of rock stars.
That's right.
Speaking of rock stars, welcometo episode number 134.
We have Tom and Brandon andCarson all back at the same
time.
And yes, a rock star guest withJD Miller.
So JD, welcome.

(01:14):
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be here.
So we're going to talk about,with JD today, a bit about kind
of the sales and marketing,modern sales and marketing
strategies from the viewpoint ofhow kind of private equity and
acquirers look at things.
And as your company evolves,what are some best practices

(01:35):
that we're seeing and strategiesthat we're seeing?
I think it's gonna be a reallyinteresting episode kind of
looking at it from that vantagepoint.

SPEAKER_03 (01:44):
Well, and I would say, why don't we start by
telling everybody that JD is sixfor six.
in uh in his startups andcompanies that he's that he's
built you're grown and exited imean come on back in the
thousands that's likeunfortunate

SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
to be in the right place like the goat michael
jordan of uh venture capital hehas he has a lot of rings

SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
yeah I would say I would rather be lucky than good
sometimes.
But yeah, my first job out ofcollege, I worked at a small.com
that had done$750,000 of salestheir first year.
That seemed like a lot of moneyto me as a college graduate.
I didn't do the math of therewere 26 employees.
But six years later, we wentpublic with a$9 billion

(02:27):
valuation and we're the largesttech IPO until Google.
And so that set me down the pathof How can you repeat that?
And it's always beenincreasingly responsible sales
jobs in B2B tech companies.
JD, what was that firstcompany's name?
What was it?
Vignette.
And so the late 90s, our salespitch was calling

SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
from the internet, do you need a website?
Vignette was quite the hotcompany in the day.
It was.
Yeah.
I remember them well.

SPEAKER_02 (02:55):
And then curiously, I actually started at a company
that was acquired by Vignetteand the founder, Introspect, and
the founder of Introspect thenwent on to found another small
startup called Siri and hit itagain, talking to his computer
and ultimately sold that one toApple.

SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Wow.
And Apple still hasn't figuredthat one out yet.
All right.
Well, hey, before we get intothis, as always, we want to
thank Fistbump for thesponsorship.
Brandon, any upcoming...
webinars, shows, anything thatwe should be talking about?

SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
You know, we don't.
The only thing is I've startedanother show.
It's called Revenue ThroughReputation and we get a bit more
granular outside of just thesales part, but we talk more
about the using content to growreputation for individuals, but
also for the brand.
So that one, yeah, come join meon that one.

(03:51):
It's Tuesdays at 11 a.m.
Eastern.
You can do a search for RevenueThrough Reputation.
It has its own LinkedIn page andall that as well, or on the
podcast.
It's got its own channel.

SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Awesome.
All right.
Well, you had a couple ofwebinars last week, I think,
with Mark Hunter, or was thatalready?
That was like

SPEAKER_03 (04:08):
two weeks ago.
Yeah.
We've got another one coming upin May.
I don't think we're ready topromote it yet, but we've got
another one coming up on thatone hour a week LinkedIn
playbook for busy CEOs.

SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Okay.
All right.
Well, then let's get into it.
So JD, tell us kind of a littlebit about what you do now and
your background, and then we'llget into some of these questions
or kind of taking us throughsome of these strategies.

SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yeah, fantastic.
Yeah, so following that vignetteexperience, I have spent the
last 25 years in B2B tech sales.
I began as a sales engineer,quota carrier, and then
ultimately CRO a bunch of times,CMO, and country president for
the US, but always backed byprivate equity firms.
So six times, I've been involvedin the sale of a company through

(04:57):
private equity.
And today, I work for PE firmsthemselves as what we call an
operating advisor.
So I'm the guy who sits on theboard who knows something about
sales and marketing.
And I get to work withportfolios of companies,
coaching and mentoring theirsales leadership team and
lending a hand when that'sneeded too.

SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
What do you, and we may get into this, but at a high
level, do you think that there'sany sort of special approach
strategies or whatever that youneed to be thinking about when
you're working with privateequity companies?
in terms of, you know, I knowobviously every private equity
is different.
They have different strategieson how they purchase and so

(05:39):
forth.
But generally, private equity isnot venture capital, right?
So they're looking to bring insomething that has some
profitability, has some growthand profits and so forth.
They're not looking for thestartup that's earning$10
million a month going throughthe process.
So therefore, you have to kindof look at the world through a

(05:59):
little bit of a different lens,I would suspect, as a real
estate student.
to capture it.

SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
And I think one of the thingsthat I really like about private
equity is, you know, we alwayshave an eye on an exit, getting
out of the investment in four tofive years.
So it creates a lot of urgencyfor, you know, you've bought a
company that's got somethinggoing really well.
How can we implement a playbookto double down on that and, you

(06:25):
know, make it go faster?
And so what I've done is I'vecollected kind of the best
practices from the PE firms I'veworked with and consolidated
them into a book that's calledRO's Guide to Winning in Private
Equity, where we talk aboutthose specific unique things to
the ownership structure.

SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
So where do we want to start, Brian?
Should we start with the kindof...
Go ahead, Carson.
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Yeah, I'd say, I mean, you've got me intrigued
right out of the gate.
I'm always interested in thecommon themes that you're seeing
in the successes, but also thepractical application.
How can people today make pivotsin their business model that
will be advantageous for them?
Like what should people bethinking about today, the CROs?

SPEAKER_02 (07:12):
So for me, it's about repeatability of process.
Most of the companies that I seein the PE firms I'm working with
are doing maybe$30 million inARR.
They've just graduated from thatkind of founder-based VC backed.
And they have between 30 millionand maybe$300 million of
revenue.
And the biggest pivot for thatis how do you take what you did

(07:34):
really well as a small startupcompany and implement a
repeatability a repeatableprocess.
And so a lot of the work that Ido with my CROs is to say, how
do we get the intelligence outof your head?
How do we implement a repeatablesales process?
How do we identify your idealcustomer profile, your ideal
buyer.
What are the sales stages you gothrough?

(07:55):
Because usually in our timetogether, you're going to go
from a team of maybe five or sixsellers to maybe 200 sellers.
And so it's implementing a lotof repeatable systems and
management structures that makesure all 200 of us are doing the
same thing in the same ways.

SPEAKER_01 (08:12):
What do you think are the common missteps that
CROs are taking today?

SPEAKER_02 (08:17):
I think a lot of the early You know, the early kind
of stage of that smallerrevenue, a lot of those CROs
struggle with graduating to bethe leader and the enforcer
instead of the super salesmanthemselves.
A lot of people get in that seatin a small startup because they
were the person who could sellit on their own.
And a lot of the work that I dois talking about how do you now

(08:42):
let someone else do what you'recomfortable in and have you do
the thing that only you can do,which is strategic.
And then I think the second bigchallenge that we see a a lot of
CROs is signing up for a numberwithout a plan.
You hear from private equity,you've got to grow 20% this
year.
And I think a lot of CROs getinto trouble where they go to a
board meeting and they say, yep,I'll sign up for 20% more

(09:04):
number, and they don't know howthey're going to do it.
And so we really need to breakdown what's going to be new
logo, what's going to be sale ofyour new product, what's
cross-selling to your installbase, what's happening with
customer satisfaction in turn,because if I'm a$100 million
company, I don't have to justsell$20 million more if I've got
10% churn.
So kind of understanding all ofthose puts and takes in the

(09:26):
annual plan is another reallybig piece that I spend a lot of
time with CROs on.

SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
There's a lot of moving parts there.
I mean, especially when you gofrom a transition from being
like the main producer with asmall team, there's a lot of
behavior that we need to putdown and new behaviors that we
have to pick up.
And then on top of that, you'vegot this pressure of a 20%
growth and managing new systemsand new people.

(09:54):
That just seems like a realchallenging environment.
It can be.

SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
I think the biggest skill to...
to kind of develop there isgetting really comfortable with
data and data analysis.
Or if you're fortunate, hiring arevenue operations person who
could sit by your side andproduce data.
I was a social scientist intraining.
I have a PhD in communication.
And so I believe everythingabout a sales process is

(10:21):
persuasion that you can measure.
And it's a science that if I saythis to you in this way, I'm
going to get this result.
Really great CROs, really greatRevOps leaders are able to help
unpack the call recordings, allthe things that we see happening
in emails, everything in yourCRM system, and understand when
I do this, what's the result?
How do I tweak what my inputwas?

(10:43):
to get a better result.
And so kind of data facility isa really core key skill.

SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
So what would be the smallest company generally right
now that you're getting involvedwith?
Is it a$10 million company wouldbe on the small end or?

SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
Yeah, I have one right now.
They're in Austria.
They're about 15 million in ARR.
But yeah, we'd start talking tothose folks, you know, at the
eight and 10 million.
And then, you know, once we seethat there's a great product or
a great message, or you're kindof onto something and how you
can sell it, we'll go ahead andbuy that and put a lot of effort
behind, you know, replicating itat bigger scale.

SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
So how

SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
would you go ahead, John?

SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
I'm just going to ask part two to that is, As you
then acquire these companies,and it's, I mean, I have a small
company, it's not quite thatsize yet, but we're investing a
lot in process and repeatabilityand metrics, even at a small
company.
Are you seeing that thesecompanies that are coming in at
8, 10, 12 million ARR are reallylacking a lot of that?

(11:51):
And they're really just kind ofoperating by the founder and
basically letting the product ortheir technology carry them?

SPEAKER_02 (12:00):
I see that a lot.
Now, that may be a function ofthe PE firms that I work with.
Everyone's got sort of adifferent investment thesis.
So there are some PE firms thatare great at saying, let me
teach you how to sell reallywell.
And having someone on the benchwho's a CRO advisor, that's one
of the things we do really,really well.

(12:20):
So we tend to have a lot ofgreat products that need a sales
engine.
There are other PE firms thatsay you may have a great sales
engine and I've got to reallydouble down on helping you
differentiate your product andthey'll put money into product
development and understandingproduct market too.
So it kind of depends on yourboard and your investors.

SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
Okay.
Makes sense.
Go ahead, Carson.
Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Yeah.
With your wealth of experience,JD, how has the game changed?
Obviously, what technology andAI and data can do and point us
to now.
I would have to think that thesavvy CROs are looking at where
they can get an edge.
What are you seeing in thatspace?

(13:02):
How are the smart CROs adoptingtechnology?

SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
I think a lot of it right now is about knowing your
customer so much better.
When I started selling 20, 25years ago, we used to get grace
from prospects who would say, Ican show up and have a blank
sheet of paper and say, tell meabout your problems and what
would be ideal for your aircraftsolutions.
Today, Everything that you canknow about someone is available

(13:28):
online.
And so prospects expect you toshow up with a point of view.
I've done my research.
I've seen your website.
I have this thesis that this isbroken and I'm going to come fix
it for you.
And then I also think on thecoaching side, when we talk
about performance management ofsellers, AI gives us access to
so much more than we ever usedto have before.
So it used to be, as CRO, Icould get in the car and maybe

(13:52):
go on two sales calls with aseller and a quarter.
Now, when literally every callis recorded, AI has transcribed
it, I can really quickly, at theend of every day, see what did
all of my sellers talk about,where are the pitfalls they've
had.
I use a medic-based salesprocess.
So which of those medicquestions are we consistently

(14:13):
failing to answer?
are well, and you can have a lotmore real-time coaching.
So it's really just kind ofraised the game and raised the
stakes for sellers to be muchbetter than they ever used to
be.

SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
It's

SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
incredible.
So let's go down the road.
And Brandon, I want to get youto kind of drive this a little
bit.
I know this is an area thatyou've had a lot of experience
with is this marketing concept,right?
Which is the idea of combiningsales and marketing tighter
together and working closelytogether.

(14:48):
Brandon, where should we starton that?
Because I think there's a lot ofthings that we can unpack here.
Yeah, I

SPEAKER_03 (14:53):
think let's start, JD.
I'd love for you to kind ofdefine what does that concept of
smart marketing really mean andwhy is the marketing motion and
the sales motion being moreintegrated so important now,
especially?

UNKNOWN (15:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
So I first learned about marketing actually from a
chief marketing officer namedAndrea Brody.
It's about 10 years ago.
And I was hired to lead theglobal sales motion at this
company.
And the PE firm was well downthe path on their hold period.
And we had about a year leftbefore we needed to get the
company sold.
And we were really looking forthe right results.

(15:31):
And I got into the conversationby saying, well, where do the
BDRs report?
And I want them reporting to me.
And she said to me, let's stopthinking about sales and
marketing and really let me talkto you about the combined
organization, the marketing org.
We're both leaders of it.
It doesn't matter what reportingstructures are.
It doesn't ultimately matter.

(15:52):
other than the two of ustogether have got to get to this
number.
And it really led to this tightcollaboration that said, OK, if
the business's goal is to grow20% this year, what's our
average deal size?
How many deals do we need to do?
And then all of the kind ofpredicting behaviors.
What's our win rate?
So how many opportunities did Ineed to have?

(16:14):
What's my sales cycle look like?
How many meetings did I have tohave?
How many cold calls did I haveto have?
All of that sort of stuff that'sprecursors to getting to the
number.
And I think what was reallyexciting about that is in a lot
of organizations, sales andmarketing are pointing fingers
at each other saying, oh, ifsales would win more, the world
would be easier.
Oh, if marketing would be givingme better quality leads or more

(16:35):
of those leads, my life would beeasier.
And when we think aboutmarketing, we can have those
conversations that, yes, I needto improve the skill of my
sellers, but the fact of thematter is this is how good they
are today.
So what are we collectivelygoing to have to do with the
team, with the resources wewe've got today to get to the
results that we're trying to getto.

(16:56):
And so then ever since then,whether it's a sales leader and
a marketing leader who holdhands or increasingly, I think
people aren't spending as muchmoney on executives because
we're landing on a single CROwho owns both sales and
marketing teams.
It's really aligning all theresources on our common vision
and all of the inputs that aregoing to get us there.

SPEAKER_03 (17:17):
And when you talk about alignment of that in a
tactical way, I mean, what doesthat look like week to week and
month to month and getting thesemarketing motions and these
sales motions aligned?
And I'm assuming the goal, ofcourse, is more conversations,
more at bats.
What does that practically looklike, though?

SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
Yeah.
So for me, it all kind of landsin what are the metrics and what
is the process we're goingthrough?
And I focus a lot on a salesvelocity metric, which is
basically measuring all of theactivities and how much revenue
do we produce every day.
So it looks at total number ofopportunities times conversion

(17:57):
rate times deal size divided bythe number of days in our sales
cycle.
And that's how we get to salesvelocity.
But then my marketing leader me,my sales leaders are looking at
least every two weeks at each ofthose inputs.
So together we'd say, we'retrying to get to this$20 million
growth number this year.

(18:17):
If things keep running the sameway they are, how many
opportunities do I need to have?
What's my win rate?
What does that deal size need tolook like?
How fast does that cycle need toflow?
And then every two weeks we'rechecking in, are we hitting
those expectations?
And if we're not, what do weneed to tweak?
And sometimes I don't have asmany opportunities and maybe I

(18:38):
need to invest more marketingdollars there, but maybe I'm
overperforming somewhere else.
And so it's kind of constantlyadapting what the total equation
looks like to get to the verynew goal.

SPEAKER_03 (18:49):
And when you're looking at, so I'm going to lean
in more on the marketing side orthe content side, because I find
now that content is so importantfor creating initial reputation,
creating brand, creating thatawareness.
So you get into the data andsome of that content, like where
the clicks are coming from,where the conversions are taking

(19:10):
place, making adjustment inmessaging, or what does that
look like where you've got salesand marketing working together?
Because the opposite is salesand marketing are And the only
communication they do is usuallygiving each other the finger
because they're upset with eachother.
But you know, you're not givingme enough leads while you're not
converting my leads.
What does that look like whenthere is proper alignment and

(19:33):
working together to solve theproblem instead of working
apart?

SPEAKER_02 (19:37):
Well, I think you're exactly right.
Content-based marketing is sucha ubiquitous thing, and it's
become so inexpensive for me toblast off a couple hundred
emails and do different things.
And so the data that we'reseeing today is that it takes
about 17 touches to turn someonefrom a totally cold prospect to

(19:58):
someone who's going to take asales call with you.
So part of what we're doing withmarketing is to align on what
are those 17 touches.
Some of them is going to beconsumer becoming a blog post.
Some of those is going to be abanner ad retargeting that comes
from marketing.
Some is going to be a BDR coldcall, a seller call, a
connection on LinkedIn.
And so part of what we're doingis, you know, it's almost like

(20:20):
account based marketing thatwe're looking at our prospect
list Have we made all the 17touches in a short amount of
time?
Is everyone doing their piece?
And then the second piece is,you know, which of those is the
most effective?
Because I would like to shave 17down to 15 to 13 and get it
faster.
And so instead of marketing onone side, talking about whatever

(20:42):
they talk about in sales,talking about something else is
how do we actually align themessage that we're talking
about?
So we look like a unifiedcompany to everyone who's
engaging us in all the differentchannels.

SPEAKER_03 (20:53):
Yeah, that's what I was hoping you were going to say
and to get to.
And I think so often, evensmaller teams, You know,
marketing's got their plan.
They've got their goggles on andthis is what they're looking at
and sales looking this way.
And without that alignment, itjust seems like maybe instead of
17, it becomes 30 because theyjust keep missing.

(21:15):
And what sales is talking about,what marketing is producing are
not in alignment and reallycreating more confusion across
buyers.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
We've all had the experience of sales is doing
whatever they're doing withtheir prospects.
And all of a sudden marketingcalls up a seller and says, we
have a trade show in two weeksand I need you to drive more
registrations to the booth.
And the seller is kind ofscratching their head saying,
it's two weeks out.
I had no idea it was coming.
And that's not at all what I'vebeen talking to my prospects

(21:45):
about.
So how do we get kind of acontent calendar and a messaging
calendar that every time we'retalking to the market we're
saying some of the same basicthings and then you know the
other part of that is knowingthat the message that works
today is not necessarily themessage that's going to work
tomorrow Really early on, I hada sales mentor tell me, every

(22:06):
product you're going to sell hasone of three pitches.
You either have to buy myproduct because it helps you
comply with the law.
You'll go to jail if you don'tdo it.
You're going to buy my productbecause you're going to sell
more and make more money withit.
Or you're going to buy myproduct because you're going to
cut costs with it.
Now, it used to be a couple ofyears ago, we were talking all
about growth and all of theseexciting new AI tools that are

(22:28):
going to make your sellers moreeffective.
Now, all of a sudden in the US,we're looking at the economy and
we're saying, are we in arecession?
Are we not?
What's the stock market doing?
And a lot of people are pullingback.
And so those messages about costcutting, risk reduction are way
more relevant.
And so really good sales andmarketing leaders are kind of
taking that pulse and figuringout, yep, sellers, I used to

(22:51):
talk to you about buy this thingfor 15% growth.
Now you're going to shift yourmessaging.
You're going to talk about buythis thing and you can reduce
three heads out of yourorganization with

SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
it.
I like Dominique's comment,maybe 17 cold calls is all we
need to do to get those 17touches that are there.
Well,

SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
and hopefully it's not all cold calls, right?
I mean, in the bestorganizations, it's all that
other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
No, we've got to do something right that actually
creates the demand and buildsthe trust versus just the cold
call of the day.
Where do you think thismarketing strategy should start?
to evolve?
Do you think that that should behappening right from day one in

(23:40):
a company?
You know, we have startups andother, we have really all size
companies, I think, to listen tothe show.
And, you know, where would yousay, is that something you
should be building in the DNAfrom day one?
Brandon, it sounds like you'reon a golf course with all your
birds and everything.
I've got birds out

SPEAKER_03 (23:58):
there.
These are good.
These are good AirPods, aren'tthey?

SPEAKER_02 (24:03):
You know, I think it's something that does start
from day one.
But I remember those early daysat Vignette when we were 26
people, it naturally happenedbecause we had a single leader
and we had two salespeople.
And so they naturally knew allof the marketing messages and
all the sales pitches and theevents we were going to.
And there was a lot ofunification there.

(24:24):
I actually think marketingbecomes more important once
you've expanded beyond a singleoffice and you've got You know,
now some of your team isco-located in this place and
some might be down the street oracross the world.
And now you've got to startreally being intentional about
communicating what we're doingand lining that up.
And it's really important to doin the annual planning process.

(24:46):
And then it's really importantto keep refreshing and staying
on top of week by week and monthby month.

SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
So I have a selfish question for you, and then we'll
go on to the next one on theagenda.
But my software company sellspredominantly to manufacturers
and wholesale distributors thatare private equity owned.
The majority of them are a largepercentage of them.
Are you seeing that privateequity owned companies are
slowing down on their growthplans or saying, Hey, you don't,

(25:15):
don't worry about growing 20%this year, but it's okay to slow
down or, you know, kind of cutsome expenses and shore up or
what are you seeing as itrelates to the private equity?
I guess that's a very personal.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (25:28):
no, that's a great question.
Um, so private equity ultimatelytries to drive to what we call a
rule of 40 company and so ruleof 40 is you're adding your
profitability and your growthand those percentages together
need to add up to 40.
so you know are we slowing downon growth i mean if you're going

(25:51):
to get there on profitabilityyes you can take your foot off
the gas on growth if you're nota super profitable company and
there's not a lot of obviousstuff to do there then growth is
still really very important toyou and so i think you know when
your company was bought webought it with some investment
thesis of what the next three orfour years was going to look

(26:11):
like and we really need to makedo make make good on that but i
do think as the economy goes upand down you know we're
constantly re-evaluating thoselevers of you know which one is
sort of in the lead today

SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
got it so which which how do we adjust that 40
it still stays at 40 but are weputting more emphasis on the
growth side of the equation orthe or the net income side of
the equation or theprofitability side of the
equation.

SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
Great.
And I think it's very dependenton the company that you're
holding.
A manufacturing company, we heara lot about tariffs today with
them, where their raw goods arecoming from.
There's probably not a lot ofprofitability motion to happen
there.
We're going to have to make upfor it on growth.
Other industries may havedifferent kind of levers that

(26:58):
they can pull there.

SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
Makes total sense.
So Carson, one of the things wewanted to talk about today was,
and I think maybe you cover thisin your book, JD, is performance
improvement plans as kind of amanagement tool or so forth.
And I know, JD, you have somesome suggestions or strategies

(27:22):
with that.
But Carson, I know you do a lotwith this at Microsoft.
So be interested in both of yourtakes on these and kind of what
you're seeing in this area abouthow you use these performance
improvement plans as kind oftools for growth versus, I
think, as you said, JD,punishment as an alternative to
punishment.

SPEAKER_02 (27:40):
I mean, it's sometimes controversial because
I believe that everyone shouldbe on a performance improvement
plan all the time.
But the reason that that'scontroversial is that there are
so many companies that aren'thaving performance conversations
until things are going reallybadly.
And then the performanceimprovement plan really is just
some HR paperwork we're gonna gothrough so that you don't sue us

(28:01):
when we fire you.
And I think instead, if we canturn that on its head and say,
Every employee, every 90 days,we're going to sit down, we're
going to talk about what's goingwell, we're going to talk about
what's not going well, and we'regoing to come up with ideas
about what are you going to doin the next 90 days to continue
to become better, buildingskills and grow your
performance.
That's a great performanceimprovement plan that helps all

(28:23):
the boats rise.
Carson, what's your experiencewith this?

SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
Yeah, JD, and look, I know you have a lot of great
experience coming in and reallyhelping define and set culture
for selling.
I think the problem with thePIP, as it were, is that it has
a negative connotation bydefault because of how it's been
used historically in a lot ofscenarios and organizations.
I agree with your sentiment.

(28:47):
I think, you know, I've beentasked a few times in my career
to coming into new organizationsor new teams or new situations
or failing teams or pre-existingteams to build sales culture or
to redefine the team.
And one of the things that hasbeen a very valuable resource
and tool has been theimprovement plan, or at least

(29:11):
the thematic element that maybewe didn't call it an improvement
plan, but the reality is it is.
And what we're doing is we'reassessing the current state,
right?
We're looking at what's working,what's not.
What are the strengths?
What are the areas ofopportunity doing kind of that
SWOT analysis on your team andalso on your people?
You know, I believe everybody.

(29:31):
has earned the right by andlarge to be in the seat that
they're in at the time that theyget that seat.
Sometimes the seat changes,sometimes the dues to be in that
seat shift.
It's up to us to make sure thatwe and everybody that works for
us is bringing that day oneenergy, being the person that we
promised to be on interview daywhile the company gives us the

(29:51):
tools, the resources, thetraining to be successful.
Now, with an improvement plan,It's important to kind of draw
that line and say, okay, this iswhere we are.
This is where we've been.
What we've discussed previouslyas far as the areas where we
need to be improving, the stepsand the action plan that we
agreed upon in order to see thatimprovement.
And it all comes down toprocess, right?

(30:12):
Because if you have the rightpeople, Doing the right process,
your probability of success isvery high.
Now, the people change andvariables around the people
shift.
The outcomes that we're drivingwith process shift.
And so it sometimes will causethe need for new process or
pivoting in process.

(30:34):
But I think that's why theimprovement plan is so
paramount.
We're going to look at wherewe've been, where we are, where
we need and want to go.
And we're going to agree on aplan to get here.
Now, when we get to this placein time, we've got to look back
at the sum of the parts andwe've got to realize, did we
take those steps?
We either have or we haven'tseen improvement.

(30:54):
If we haven't seen the actionsthat we agreed upon, we have a
new challenge and we have a newproblem.
And I think that's where thatwrite up or that performance
plan can take a differentconnotation and tone.
But frankly, JD, back to yourpoint, everybody should be on a
trajectory of improvement everysingle day.
I love the idea of knocking downthe negative connotation of a

(31:17):
performance improvement planbecause we should all be working
on the ways that we can improveevery day because we're going to
need to be able to be invaluablenow and into the future i read
an article on linkedin the otherday that was about just that i
have zero fear about aireplacing me because everything
i do is try to be as valuable asi can be to the people in my

(31:38):
sphere the people i serve mycolleagues my leadership my
customers and by doing that I'mworking to be valuable, but I've
also got to take on these tools.
I read a study a couple monthsago where individual
contributors using a legion ofAI agents will be more
productive and efficient andimpactful and driving more

(32:00):
outcomes than full existinghuman teams that we have today.
Now, that isn't the realitytoday, but it's where I believe
the work world is going to go.
And so we need to right now bechallenging ourselves to
improve, to be invaluable, tounlock success.

SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
Right.
And it's how do we develop thoseskills?
I think a big piece about theperformance improvement plan
template, and we probably shouldrebrand it something else, is,
you know, yes, what's going tohappen for the next 90 days, but
also long term, what's yourfuture career?
And what are the skills that weneed to be thinking about a year
from now, three years from now,because maybe you don't want to

(32:42):
be a mid market seller forever?
What are the things to getpromoted to enterprise or very
different to manage a team?
What are those skills supposedto look like?
And so whether we call it a pipor we call it something else,
it's having a really clearconversation about the constant
development.
I saw a couple of weeks ago,Clary published their state of

(33:02):
sales 2025 report, and theylooked across all of the, I
don't know who theirorganizations were, but hundreds
of organization sales teams, andthey found two things.
One was that there are about 10%of sellers who were doing 62% of
their company's business.
we're used to that you've alwaysgot some top performers and
maybe you've got an enterpriseteam but what i found was really

(33:25):
astonishing is the bottom 50 ofsellers collectively were only
selling seven and a half percentof the revenue of the companies
they worked for and so that toldme you know it got me really
thinking about this notion ofperformance improvement You
didn't hire half of your salesteam of just terrible sellers.
Something has shifted in theenvironment.

(33:46):
That just means what they usedto do when you hired them is no
longer what you need them to do.
And so the solution doesn't haveto be go fire half of your team
and replace them with new folks.
It's how do we talk aboutimproving the performance?
How do we talk about, oh, theeconomy's shifted.
Here's a different message youneed to deliver and training
people in developing that skill.

SPEAKER_00 (34:09):
So am I hearing you say that really everybody on the
team and maybe even on themarketing team as well, if you
take this marketing approach,should have some sort of PIP
that you're, and how frequentlywould you review those?
Is that a quarterly effort everysix months or how frequently
would that happen?

SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
I like to do it quarterly.
Now, I hope that everyone, everyindividual contributor is having
a weekly one-on-one with theirmanager where they're talking
about all sorts of things andhopefully having some
development.
But at least quarterly, thatconversation with the manager
should be a little bit morestructured where we do a
retrospective on the last 90days, a forward look on the next
90 days, and we identify whatare the skills we're going to

(34:53):
develop together and how are wegoing to get there.
And when I've done that, I'vehad higher performing teams.
It also makes writing annualreviews really easy for me.
You take all the quarterly onesand you staple them together and
it's conversation.
I think the worst organizations,

SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
go ahead.
No, I was going to say youcould, so you could, you could
have a top seller, right?
That's killing it from thenumbers perspective, but it
doesn't mean that they stillshouldn't be thinking about how
are they improving their relatesto their use of ai or there's
certainly areas that they cancontinue to improve on or
prepare for even if they'rekilling it with their numbers

(35:30):
right so it's not exactly lowerhalf that's getting the pip
that's there

SPEAKER_02 (35:34):
right yeah and that you know that the pip is or the
performance improvementdiscussion is not a punishment
so yes a top seller should havean improvement plan how how are
you going to continue to refineyour skills and become even
better how do you you're a topindividual contributor today
What do you want to do in yourcareer five years from now?
How do we improve your skills toset you up for that next step?

SPEAKER_00 (35:57):
So here's a question I

SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
have.

SPEAKER_03 (36:01):
Well, as I said, when, when we, when I looked at
the topic around PIP, I mean,this sounds to me much more like
a personal development plan.
It's not so much the improvementside because it's, it's like,
Hey, we can acknowledgegenerally.
I think that the thought is PIPmeans you're, you're, you're
sucking it up and you're goingto get fired.
What we're talking about though,is, is a, is a better culture

(36:23):
of, Hey, we, we're, we want topersonally, we want to partner
with you and align with you forpersonal development.
Like where, where do you seeyourself going?
What are the skills that we needto create in you?
And then it's that combinationof, I think, from a good culture
standpoint, what the employee,what the person wants, but then
also what the company is goingto need in the future and
aligning that as more of atraining and personal

(36:46):
development plan.
Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_02 (36:50):
That's right.
And I really got religion onthis, you know, maybe 15 years
ago when I was fired bysurprise.
I had been in a job I thoughtwas going really, really well.
It was a stretch role for me.
My manager didn't talk to mevery much.
He traveled a lot.
So maybe every two weeks I sawhim briefly.
And I was there a couple ofyears and I think things are

(37:10):
going great.
And the head of HR took me asideone day and said, JD, how do you
think things are going for you?
I said, I think it's goinggreat.
And the head of HR said, no oneelse does.
And here's your pin.
we're firing you and, you know,you've got 30 days, but really,
you know, start interviewing.
You're going to find somethingelse.
And, you know, I thought aboutthat for a second and I realized

(37:30):
if we had had that conversationsix months before, a year
before, you know, maybe I couldhave developed the skills that
they were looking for.
and had a better result and notgotten fired.
Now it was bad for me, losingthe job.
It was bad for them too, becauseif they didn't have a
development plan with the nextperson who came in, they're
gonna be in the same cycle.

(37:52):
And so it costs them a lot ofmoney in severance with me.
It costs them a lot of money onthe recruiter to find the next
person.
lost time of ramping the personinto the role.
And if you, if you miss thatcoaching opportunity, you're
just going to be on this cycle.
And so, you know, that was kindof the spark of me saying, we
really need to have developmentconversations much more

(38:13):
frequently

SPEAKER_00 (38:13):
because it's good for everybody.
Hey, AJD, when you got that PIPunexpectedly, or that, when you
looked at it, did you see thingson there that when you looked at
it go, oh, wow, maybe there's,they're right about some of
these things.
And had I known this...
six months or a year ago, Iwould have worked on these.
I just didn't know that this wasimportant for what they were

(38:34):
looking for.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (38:37):
I mean, absolutely.
I was in my 20s and had nevereven heard of this kind of
stuff.
But a lot of times when peopleare producing these documents,
it has built up so far andgotten so bad that the
decision's already made.
We're moving on from you.
You're terrible for the culture.
You're terrible at this,whatever.
And the kinds of hurdles that weput in those documents, you've

(39:00):
got 30 days to get to 200% ofquota.
Well, that's never going tohappen.
Where if, on a monthly basis, wewere talking about, hey, you
kind of missed your quota alittle bit there.
Over the next 90 days, let'swork on prospecting so you have
a bigger pipeline.
You can start to course correctearly on, and you're not pulling
this huge rip cord.

SPEAKER_03 (39:19):
So stupid question here, but in that situation, I'm
assuming you weren't having theweekly one-on-ones and you
weren't having the quarterlydevelopment conversations.
You didn't get any of that.
Correct.
Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
And I think a lot of times that can happen with
growing companies too, where wetake a good seller and we
promote them to be head ofsales, but they don't think
about management.
And so they're out talking tothe biggest customers and
closing deals on their own.
And oh yes, I have five or sixor eight people reporting to me
and they'll call me if they needsomething.

(39:54):
And that's a development skillfor that manager that someone
needs to

SPEAKER_04 (39:58):
teach.

SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Here's some new process that you need to learn
to be an effective leader ofpeople.

SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
I remember years ago when I was a second line and I
had a general manager who wouldcome to me and it's like he
would always say, look at wherethe management problems lie in
this.
Don't always look directly atthe sellers because it is so
critical that good sales culturerequires sales managers to

(40:25):
understand the why and how ofthe process.
And frankly, A great seller doesnot a great manager make.
In fact, look at sports, look atathletics, look at baseball.
Some of the greatest managersand coaches were good or maybe
even mediocre players at best,but they understood the

(40:46):
fundamentals and the why behindthe process.
I think that's the key.
We've got to spend more time asorganizations and, you know,
thinking it from a CRO lenseven, we've got to think about
the importance of building thatsales culture.
How do we do it and why do we doit?
Helping ensure that our teamsunderstand the why behind what
we're doing.
There needs to be a level oftransparency.

(41:07):
JD, to your earlier point, likesigning up for a big growth
number.
We need to understand how we'regoing to get there.
We need to understand theimportance of making that growth
number for sustainable businesssuccess.
We've also got to understand,OK, what are going to be the
inputs that are going to be avital criticality in order to
drive the outcomes that we'rewanting to drive?

(41:28):
I mean, if I know that I need toget more, you know, more
revenue, What ultimately isgoing to lead to revenue?
Let me double down on some ofthe things that I know work.
Let me jettison or tweak some ofthe things that don't work.
And sales managers andimprovement plans or whatever
you want to call them, we've gotto be spending time every week,

(41:49):
two weeks with every member ofour team.
We need to be hands-on in thefield, inspecting and helping
them improve.
We've got to be willing to dothe things that we're asking
them to do.
Otherwise, we're not going totake them to the next level.
And JD, you hit on somethingelse really important as well.
The things that are workingtoday may not work three months

(42:09):
down the road.
So we've got to also be veryagile and able to pivot now more
than ever, because theconversations with customers are
changing, the data and what theyhave at their fingertips is
changing, and what AI is capableof doing is going to continue to
change too.
That's why we can't get marriedto any expectation right now.

(42:29):
I work in an industry that ismaking big shifts.
And fortunately, I'm just an oldgrizzled sales veteran And I'm
going to roll with the punchesand I'm going to go wherever I
can be valuable and I'm going todo what I know to do, which is
survive.
But, you know, not everybody hashad that experience or knows the

(42:50):
importance of kind of leaninginto these moments and really
listening.
What are my customers saying?
What are the leaders saying?
How can I be the problem solverin this day and time?

SPEAKER_02 (43:03):
That's right.
You know, a lot of times when Iwork with a CRO, first time
who's working in thisenvironment, they're surprised
that the board deck isn't justabout the number, but it's about
all these other things.
And it's, you know, it's reallyimportant for me as a leader.
Yes, I hope I'm delivering thenumber and we want to do that
pretty consistently, but I don'twant to be delivering the number

(43:25):
just because I have one superseller who's saving the day for
me.
I really do want to be runningan organization where 80% of the
team is getting at least to 80%of the quota, 80% of the time.
Because if you're hitting yournumber, but you've got all this
huge churn, am I running aterrible culture that my sellers
hate working for me?

(43:45):
Am I turning over a lot ofpeople because I'm not
developing them?
We know that there's alwaysgoing to be someone who has to
leave.
Maybe I did make a bad hire.
I do need to fire somebody.
people are gonna leave and havebabies and do stuff like that.
But if it's more than 10% of theorganization is turning over,
that's on me as a leader by notcreating an environment that I'm
spending money on all of thesesalaries, we should be getting

(44:08):
some return on all of them too.

SPEAKER_01 (44:09):
That's why you got to stay at the pulse of your
team and your org.
You've got to understand whatmakes these folks tick.
How do I turn this into adestination team?
How do I turn this into adestination organization?
Survey your people, know whatthey care about, and actually
make changes and make decisionsbased on their feedback when you
can.
You're not always going to beable to, but if they can see

(44:32):
that they are a part of whatyou're doing and that they
matter and their voice matters,and you're working as an
executive to build a benchroster and attract new talent in
the plethora of ways that youcan do that now with social
media and with doing proactiveoutreach with recruiting.
There's so many ways that youcan make your organization and

(44:54):
your team a destination.

SPEAKER_02 (44:57):
And the social scientist in me and the
communication PhD in me says, atthe end of the day, the solution
to a lot of problems is morecommunication.
When you have a culturalchallenge going on, and it's
happened to me too.
I've seen my name on Glassdoorreviews saying, this is a
terrible company to work forbecause JD does this thing.

(45:18):
probably I stand behind what Idid.
It's the right thing to do, butI didn't communicate it well
enough to you and explain whyare we doing this unpleasant
thing or this unpleasant change?
And so more communication, moreengagement is really going to
win the hearts and minds of yourteam and then have them, you
know, follow to greatness.

SPEAKER_00 (45:37):
So what would you JD is you, if you were, and you
are, if you're talking tosalespeople right now, probably
in any size range company, Andto your point, Carson, about the
future of AI and everythingthat's kind of coming, what do
you coach them on or tell themon, especially related to AI, on
how they need to change ordevelop different skills?

(45:58):
And it's interesting, I did aworkshop with a team of
salespeople at a wholesaledistributor, I don't know, a
month or so ago, and we weretalking about AI, and there was
a lot of nervousness about AI.
Like, I don't want it in thisbuilding.
It's going to replace me.
It's going to do my job.
Why do they need me?

(46:19):
And our whole workshop was, no,no, no, no.
That's not really the way thatit's going to be.
But how do you coach people andhelp them develop and embrace AI
versus be in fear of it?
I really think it is about being

SPEAKER_02 (46:33):
comfortable getting uncomfortable.
I remember back in the 90s whenI was part of the dot-com boom,
and we were selling a lot ofsoftware to people saying, hey,
you're a call center agent rightnow, and we're building this
website that's going to beself-serve.
Did we put call centers out ofbusiness?
No, you can still pick a phoneand talk to somebody.

(46:54):
But are there significantlyfewer call center professionals
than there used to be?
Absolutely.
And so I think back then, therewere folks that had a fork in
the road of saying, I'm notgoing to get on board with this
new internet thing.
And I think they're the ones whoare left behind.
And then there were folks thatsaid, you know, there's always
going to be some kind ofprofession for me, but I better
learn how I play with thesetechnologies.

(47:15):
And I think that's what we'refinding with AI today too, is I
don't think we should besticking our head in the sand,
pretending it's going to goaway.
It's also, we're going to make alot of mistakes with it.
And we're gonna make a lot ofmissteps with it.
So I don't know exactly whereI'm gonna use it well in my job
and where it's gonna be amistake, but I should get
comfortable being uncertainabout that and trying things out

(47:38):
because eventually something isgonna rise to the top as the new
way of doing business.
And I wanna be someone who knowshow to do it.

SPEAKER_00 (47:47):
And should you welcome the opportunity for AI
to help enable you and to dothat better job, right?
And I think that's a key part aswell, is knowing that, hey, you
could get better through the useof AI, no matter how good you
are right now.
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (48:08):
I've been really fortunate in my career.
We talked about six exits.
The reason I am in the placethat I am today is at every step
of the game, I've said yes to anew opportunity that I was
uncertain about.
And so I could have been a greatsales seller and said, I'm just
going to continue to be the topseller in my next job.

(48:28):
I want to be the top seller.
Someone offered me anopportunity to lead a team.
I said, I've never done thatbefore, but let's give it a try.
And then someone offered me anopportunity to be a CMO.
And I said, I've never done thatbefore, but I'll give it a try.
And sometimes I've done wellwith that.
And sometimes I've completelyfailed at that.
But being open to saying yes,trying something new is how we

(48:51):
evolve our skills and we staycurrent in the world.

SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
Yeah, what's that phenomenal quote from Richard
Branson?
If someone offers you an amazingopportunity, but you're not sure
you can do it, say yes, and thenlearn how to do it later.
I think it's all about theexperiences.
I've been recruited to come dodifferent things multiple times
in my career, and I could stayover here in the comfortable
sleepwalking, hit my number,phone it in, or I can go over

(49:18):
here and do something brand new,get the experience, maybe fall
flat on my face.
But fortunately, I never have.
I love that mentality, JD.
And Tom, when you're talkingabout AI and sales, what is it
from our good old fabled story,Moneyball, adapt or die?

SPEAKER_00 (49:35):
That's

SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
right.
That's right.
I remember being a student atthe University of Illinois in
the 90s, and we had aconvocation speaker, who's the
person who speaks at freshmanorientation.
And they told us, 75% of you aregoing to graduate into jobs that
don't exist today.
And it was true.
It was the late 90s.
The internet came along and,boy, we had a whole lot of new

(49:58):
things.
I really believe AI is that sameforefront that so many students
who are freshmen right now, fouryears from now, are going to be
doing these jobs that didn'texist or look completely
different because of the use ofAI.
And so learning to becomfortable in saying, I'm going
to jump in with it.
I'm going to figure it out.
I'm going to give it my bestshot.
And then hopefully I'm going tohave conversations with my

(50:21):
manager regularly about what'sgoing well, what's not, and we
can keep course correcting andgetting better at it.
And they'll have great,phenomenal careers too.

SPEAKER_00 (50:31):
So as we wrap up here, I'd love to get a few tips
from you from your book.
The book is called The CRO'sGuide to Winning in Private
Equity.
Is that right?
That's right.
Okay.
What would be, I don't know,maybe two or three, if you were
to pull out a couple of two orthree good tips from the book

(50:51):
that people could take away fromto really be thinking about,
obviously not just in privateequity, but to winning in
general in this sort of modernsales age?

SPEAKER_02 (51:01):
Thanks for asking.
So the book is structured as ayear in the life of a CRO, and
it's got about a dozendownloadable templates for all
the things you need to do to gothrough your year.
So there is a performanceimprovement plan, coaching
conversation template that youcan grab today and implement
with your team today.
The biggest things for me forsuccess I spend a lot of time

(51:25):
talking about the annual planand really helping people sign
up for a number that's not justa pie in the sky number, but
where they've written on asingle sheet of paper.
These are the ways I think I'mgoing to get there through
customer churn, retention, crosssell, upsell, new logo sales,
and all of that sort of stuff.
So tip number one is have a planthat you can measure against

(51:46):
through the year because it'sgoing to help you stay kind of
course corrected.
And then the second big thing, Italk a lot about board
communication.
It's really leveraging yourboard members and people like me
on the board who are there tohelp you.
I think a lot of folks, we'reused to winning and we don't
want to disappoint people.
CROs tend to have pretty shorttenures.

(52:08):
18 months is the average tenureof a CRO before they lose their
job.
And a lot of times it's notbecause they missed their
number, it's because they didn'tcommunicate that they were going
to miss their number.
And so in the same way we shouldbe managing down and talking to
our sellers every month aboutwhat's going well and what's
not, CROs need to be talking upto their board on at least a

(52:30):
monthly basis.
I actually like a weekly email,and you can get a template out
of the book on that too, thatjust keeps them in tune on
here's what's happening with thenumber, here's what's happening
with my headcount, here's what'sgoing well, here's what's not,
so that you're not showing up ona quarterly board meeting and
dropping a terrible bomb thatresults in you getting fired.
You're showing up at thatmeeting maybe with the same news

(52:51):
with a board that says, we knewit was coming and how do I
collaborate with you andcontinue to improve your
performance down the line.

SPEAKER_00 (52:57):
That's great.
And your book is on, I assume onAmazon or?
You'll find it everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 (53:04):
So it's globally, all of the Amazons, your local
bookstore has it, and you canfind it through my website at
jdmillerphd.com.

SPEAKER_00 (53:15):
I am going to get a copy.
There sounds like there's somereally good stuff.
Excellent.
Carson, any final questionsbefore we wrap up here?

SPEAKER_01 (53:24):
No, this was a, I love this episode because it was
very unique in, you know, kindof the annals of mastering
modern selling, but a lot ofnuggets that any executive or
any sales leader or frankly, anyindividual contributor can kind
of pick up and run along with.
JD, was there anything else thatyou were hoping to impart on our

(53:45):
audience today that you didn'tget the opportunity to yet?

SPEAKER_02 (53:49):
You know, I could talk to you guys forever, but
I've really enjoyed ourconversation so far and know
keep learning and keepdeveloping

SPEAKER_01 (53:56):
yeah no thank you so much i i think you gave us a lot
of really good food for thoughtum you know and how we can
reframe the improvement processum all the way to some of the
really eye-opening statisticsaround uh cro uh tenure and
things of that stature and thethings that we can do to really
own that process.
The thing that you said that Ilove the most, JD, was when you

(54:18):
talked about what you learnedfrom even Glassdoor reviews and
how you acknowledge that When Ithink about improvement plans
and the connotation that theyget, there is a stark difference
between giving people feedbackthat's fluff or giving them

(54:40):
feedback that's negative becauseyou're being given pressure to
write somebody up fromleadership to giving people
tangible, real, constructivefeedback that they can absorb.
And while it might sting in themoment, believe me, I mean, I've
been blessed with managers thatare willing to shoot me
straight.
might sting in the moment, butthat you can take and turn into

(55:01):
something very constructive andbe a better leader and
communicator as a result.
And I love that you called outlike reading something on
Glassdoor that, hey, youacknowledge they had this
perception and I could dosomething different or better as
a result.
That's my biggest takeaway.
So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 (55:18):
And that's what I love about private equity is
we're always on a time clock ofthis company is going to get
sold in four years, three years,two years.
So we don't have a lot of timeto screw around with feeling bad
and hurt feelings.
It's just about how do I maketomorrow better than today
because I have one fewer day toget this company value bigger.
And so let's just figure out howto keep doing that and evolving

(55:41):
and we'll all wind up in a greatplace.

SPEAKER_01 (55:44):
Well said.

SPEAKER_00 (55:45):
All right.
Well, thanks again, JD.
Like I said, we'll check out thebook.
Carson, wrap us up.

SPEAKER_01 (55:52):
Yeah, hope everybody in Atlanta is safe with the
weather.

SPEAKER_00 (55:54):
Yeah, what's going on there?
Is there a storm there orsomething?

SPEAKER_01 (55:58):
Brandon needed to step away.
Maybe Butch knows as well.
I'm thinking about everybody inHotlanta.
And thanks for everybody forjoining.
Dominique, thanks for thecommentary.
Charles had some great commentstoday and Butch.
And until next time, happymodern selling.
Thanks, everyone.

(56:18):
Bye.

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MMS #134 - Redefining the PIP: A New Playbook for Sales Growth with JD Miller

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}MMS #134 - Redefining the PIP: A New Playbook for Sales Growth with JD Miller