July 23, 2024 • 29 mins
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Unlock the secrets of fostering trust and innovation through the power of Conversational Intelligence (CIQ) with our latest guest, workplace strategist and holistic executive coach, Marla Teyolia Founder of the Culture Shift Agency
In this episode of MasterStroke Monica and Sejal discuss with Marla the groundbreaking CIQ framework developed by Judith Glasser, revealing how our conversations act as energetic exchanges that can either calm or activate our nervous systems.
Discover the critical intersections between personal development and effective leadership as Marla emphasizes the importance of managing stress across all aspects of life. They discuss how unresolved personal issues can bleed into professional interactions and the power of personal development in leadership roles. Marla offers practical strategies like journaling to identify and address limiting mindsets, highlighting the benefits of emotional regulation and inclusive workplace cultures. With Marla's calming presence and invaluable wisdom, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you thrive both personally and professionally.
Georgianna Moreland - Creator, Executive Producer & Managing Editor;
Matt Stoker - Editor
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marla Teyolia (00:03):
I've seen people walk in to corporations healthy,
having had their you knowphysicals and a year later,
through the amount of stress andarmoring up they've had to do,
they have high blood pressure,they're pre-diabetic, they have
high cholesterol.
Right, and heightened cortisol,like chronic cortisol levels
(00:23):
over a period of time,predispose us to those three
metabolic factors high bloodpressure, diabetes and
cholesterol.
There's real impacts to us.
Not being true to ourselves.
Georgianna Moreland (00:36):
This is Masterstroke with Monica Enid
and Sejal Petrazak H Zak.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (00:48):
Well, welcome everyone.
We're super excited to have anexciting guest today.
Marla Teolia is a workplacestrategist and holistic
executive coach.
She's got 20 years ofleadership development and group
facilitation experience and ispassionate super passionate
about empowering individuals andteams to help us all think
(01:10):
about and assess how we think,behave, work and how we can make
lasting impact for both ourpersonal and our professional
lives.
So how does Marla do it?
She uses what's called aconversational intelligence
framework, ciq, to leverage thepower of neuroscience and
(01:33):
language to establish highlevels of trust that trigger
growth and innovation.
Monica Enand (01:39):
Oh, thank you so much, sejal, and thank you,
marla, for being here with us.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (01:43):
Yeah, thank you.
Monica Enand (01:44):
Sejal and I have talked a lot about different
types of executive coaching andways that we can up our game, so
I can't wait to hear more fromyou.
I'm dying to know because youknow I feel like I've been
exposed to lots of differenttypes of coaching and therapy
and all kinds of different waysto increase trust, and you know
(02:05):
psychological well-being andpsychological safety.
We've had all these goodconversations about it in the
workplace but, I've never heardof conversational intelligence,
so I'm dying to know.
can you tell us a little bitabout what is conversational
intelligence?
Marla Teyolia (02:20):
For sure.
It's one of the frameworks thatI use and it was pioneered in
the executive kind of leadershipdevelopment space by a woman by
the name of Judith Glasser, whohas since passed away, but it's
based on the notion thatconversations are essentially
energetic and electricalcommunications between people.
(02:42):
Right?
So if you think about, andelectrical communications
between people, right.
So if you think about, I canguarantee every one of us has
been in a conversation wheresomething that the person says
puts us on guard.
Right, we immediately say, oh,it could be tone, it could be
word choice.
There's something about thatcommunication that is conveyed
(03:04):
to me on an energetic level thatI need to protect myself.
And so what happens is that ourneuro systems really get
activated, so much so that it'scalled an amygdala hijack.
Right, we go into this part ofour brain that says, oh, fight,
(03:25):
flight, freeze or fawn, thissystem gets activated, and what
happens is that it actuallydiminishes our executive
functioning.
Where creativity lives, wheretrust lives, where good
decision-making lives, and if wecan be conscious about how we
(03:45):
are showing up in space, likeour own energy field, how we are
showing up as leaders that canprime our teams and individuals
for trust and creativity and toget the best out of them,
because their nervous system iscalm, around us, right, it's
(04:06):
settled, and when we are in thatcalm, settled place, we have so
much more access to variousparts of our brains to do the
best work possible, right.
So that is one of theframeworks that I use, and I
think it's important to namethat, while Judith Glasser
pioneered this work in corporatespaces, it's very much based on
(04:30):
indigenous knowledge andsystems of being.
Monica Enand (04:33):
Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
You know, I've read a number ofbusiness books and that are
concepts that come in businesstraining and then we learn that,
oh, these concepts have existedfor thousands of years, these
things have been around forthousands of years, they just
got a different name put on itand then put in our business
(04:55):
school press and it's like it'sactually not new news to the
human race.
Marla Teyolia (05:02):
It's not right, and so, for me, I really one of
my purposes is to bring theseancient technologies and merge
them with real cutting edgewisdom and neuroscience to be
able to have us be like our mostempowered selves and to create
deep impact.
Right, Because we, as leaders,we are in charge of supporting
(05:24):
other people to reach theirhighest potential.
Monica Enand (05:26):
You know something you said.
I think that's really importantbecause what I've also this was
news to me and I'm only sayingI know you already know this,
but I'm only saying this for ourlisteners because I learned
this sort of I think, late inlife.
Like I learned that you knowwhen you're amygdala, you know
you have this lizard brain andthat when your amygdala is
activated, that you know.
(05:48):
Because they've looked atbrains under fMRI machines, we
now know that you know the otherparts of your brain can't
activate at the same time, likewhen you say loss of executive
function, like when youramygdala is firing, the frontal
lobe is shutting down, right,and we know this now with
science and I mean really coolfMRI machines to know that this
(06:09):
is absolutely true, right?
Marla Teyolia (06:11):
And I think that what you're pointing to is
science has shown us that.
But part of my work withleaders is to remind us that we
actually have a body that'sgiving us that information, that
we actually have a body that'sgiving us that information that
we don't need quote science tovalidate.
And our body is an incrediblesource of wisdom, and so, a lot
(06:33):
of times, my work withindividuals is to get them to
slow down so that they can beginto listen to what their body's
wisdom is trying to tell them.
Right, and our bodies knowbefore our brains know and can
make sense of it from anintellectual place.
Right?
And so I call this work energymaintenance work, because,
(06:56):
ultimately, we are vital sourcesof energy.
We are energy in human form, andso, in order to be able to get
to that place where you areconscious of what's happening in
your mindset right, the scriptsthat you're telling yourself or
you're conscious of wow, I'mapproaching a certain
(07:17):
conversation and I've gotbutterflies in my stomach and
I'm feeling really nervous,right.
Or oh, my hands are reallysweating in this conversation
and I'm feeling really nervous,right?
Or oh, my hands are reallysweating in this conversation
and I'm actually feeling like Ineed to.
I'm a little.
Some fear is getting activated.
That's all information, and ifyou can notice what the body is
telling you, you can begin totend to it and disrupt it.
(07:38):
Live in the moment so that youcan show up in a much more calm
and centered and grounded place.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (07:52):
So can I ask, Marla, let's suppose you're
about to meet with somebody orgive a speech or give a
presentation or do somethingthat is making your hands sweat
or is making you feel thosebutterflies in your stomach or
your heart pound what are some,if any, quick tricks that we can
tell our listeners on ways tobe able to have that notion of
calm?
Marla Teyolia (08:12):
So I think it's something that happens prior to
that moment.
Right, I'm not going to saythat it's too late once you're
there.
But one thing about anxiety ifit goes into anxiety, anxiety
actually is a physiologicalresponse that has to see its way
through, and so anxiety issomething where you might start
shaking.
You're feeling like yournervous system is really
(08:35):
activated and you feel like, oh,I'm getting out of breath.
We don't want folks to get tothat place, and so what I
encourage is that you begin tohave, uh, build practices in
your daily life that build thatmuscle.
So, the way you would go to agym, you wouldn't go in and lift
the heaviest weights, right,when you get there.
Right, it's something you'regoing to build over time and so,
(08:58):
with leaders, a lot of it.
It's, it's simple practices.
Can you start your day withjust 15 minutes, five minutes?
Even?
Start small and just sitsilently, eyes closed, and you
could put on a timer and justnotice that you have a body that
breathes.
Monica Enand (09:30):
First a couple of thoughts on what you're saying.
I have definitely felt like, asI've learned more about being
in high pressure situations as aCEO, giving presentations, as
Sejal says, or really criticalmeetings walking into critical
meetings We've done that, bothof us.
Or really critical meetingswalking into critical meetings
We've done that, both of us.
And I guess I wish I had metyou.
But I had to learn sort of thehard way how to try to calm
(09:51):
myself down, and a lot of youknow, I think what I do is a lot
of breathing, is I try to likebreathe deeply, to kind of tell
my whatever my sympatheticnervous system or my
parasympathetic, I'm not surewhich one, but just to tell my
nervous system to like calm downand to relax.
But what I want to say is likeI somehow feel like when you say
(10:15):
anxiety is a physiologicalresponse of course it's
physiological I sometimes feellike in our society we forget
that, like you said, simply thatwe have a body, but we also
forget that our mind is attachedto that body and that actually
all those things that arehappening in your body come from
your mind, like your mind istelling your body to do those
(10:37):
things for good reason.
It's trying to protect you from, you know, a bear or a lion or
whatever why we evolved the waywe did, but it is trying to
protect you from socialostracization or whatever.
The other thing that I thoughtabout while you were talking is
I've spent all this time doingpresentations, being in
(10:58):
high-stress business situationsand realizing that, yeah, I need
these little tactics.
But to me, one thing I'velearned is that those tactics
are useful in all aspects of mylife.
Like Sejal, you've got to havelearned this too right that,
like, whatever you use to calmyourself down for a high stress
interview, you know I now play alittle competitive pickleball
(11:19):
in my neighborhood.
I mean not at a high level, butjust, you know, neighborhood
pickleball.
But it's still stressfulbecause people are watching you,
your team is counting on youand right before the serve I
have this habit now, like peoplehave established these routines
Right before I serve, I justtake this huge deep breath and
sometimes people say, gosh, wereyou really nervous?
And I think no, I'm not nervous.
(11:41):
I'm trying not to get nervous,like, as you said, marla, I'm
trying to head that off.
Like I know that it can bestressful and I'm trying to,
like, calm my body down so thatI can be calm enough to hit the
ball.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (11:54):
Well, but one of the things that's
interesting, monica, is foranybody who feels it, isn't it
true, that the nervousness orthe anxiety or the worry Is
before, but then, once you're init, you don't even have a mind
to think about all of thatbecause you're so focused on
being in it.
Monica Enand (12:15):
Once you can get into the zone, but it's actually
hard to get into the zone, Ithink.
Marla Teyolia (12:18):
Yeah, and I think you know what you're saying,
monica is for me, a core tenetof my work is that you get to be
a whole human being being right.
So when we're dealing withexecutive coaching, I guarantee
when we start addressing some ofyour core issues and core ways
(12:39):
of how you're speaking toyourself, limitations of how
you're engaging with otherpeople, people start to see
themselves in their personallives and in their professional
lives and realizing oh, I'mactually doing this all over the
place, right, like it's veryrare that you have one
maladaptive behavior that justshows up in one part of your
(13:01):
life.
That's just not how it works.
Monica Enand (13:03):
I try to tell my husband that all the time, and
so Give that maladaptive.
I'm just starting to use theword maladaptive behavior.
Let's see how that goes over myhead.
Marla Teyolia (13:13):
Right that Ultimately, it's just like
what's driving you right, likethere's something that's driving
the way you're showing up.
And I had one client years ago.
He was a VP at a tech companyand we got to an edge of how he
was engaging with certainmembers of his team where he did
(13:34):
not really respect them andtheir viewpoints and what was
showing up and it was also verycultural as well, like some kind
of I call them wounds, right,it's like this big ouch that
happened to you and that you areperpetuating in the workplace.
(13:55):
That often comes from a it'susually early childhood.
There's some cultural context,there's something that has
happened to you that has createdsome kind of way of being, and
typically that has roots wayearlier in your history.
And I want to be clear that youknow I was trained
therapeutically but I'm not atherapist, right, and there's a
(14:17):
line between therapy andcoaching that needs to be
respected and but what's helpfulis to understand oh, wow,
there's something here that isdriving a behavior, and it's
usually based on some kind ofwound.
If it's deep seated, I actuallymay need to go to therapy for
it.
If it's something that actuallyI'm able to transform on my own
with some support, but it'smoving into the future.
(14:39):
Okay, I may not have to go totherapy, but what happened in
that situation was he identifiedhow he was engaging with a
certain member of his team andit was very oppressive, and he
started.
He came back a few weeks laterand said, oh my God, I'm seeing
how I'm speaking to my wife andmy child when I'm frustrated.
(15:02):
And he couldn't unsee thatanymore, right?
And so there's beauty in beingable to see it, because then you
can transform it.
Right.
We are humans who are walkingaround with lots of stuff
because we are just people inthis world and there's things
that have happened to us, and Ithink that I really hold our
(15:23):
healing as a core leadershipdevelopment responsibility.
What would the world be like ifour leaders were healed and
doing their own work?
Wow, what a different world wewould be in, right?
And so I really hold personaldevelopment and healing as a
core leadership responsibility,because how you show up in these
(15:45):
maladaptive ways will impactyour teams, will impact how you
lead right, and I was thinkingabout a client recently who she
was really hard driving, and Ithink when we are in
corporations where productivityand the bottom line is really
(16:10):
ever-present stress and a goaland a marker for us.
She was so hard-driving.
Her team never felt thatwhatever they did was never
enough.
When we started doing PAC, youcan imagine there was a parental
wound there that she was neverenough for her mom right Like
that's where it was coming from.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (16:36):
What are some practices that I can do, you
know, to help me uncover that ifI have some kind of limiting
mindset or some kind of achallenge, what are some of
those things that they can do?
Marla Teyolia (16:50):
Yeah, great question.
So typically, when folks cometo me, there's a specific issue
that they're wanting to address,right?
So I'll use an example of awoman executive VP at a tech
company and she had come to mewith really feeling like she
(17:11):
needed to step more powerfullyinto her role.
That was given to her, but shedidn't feel she was really
stepping into it powerfully.
What I heard was I'm kind ofdisconnected from my power and
agency in that her work and it'san activity that I give her
(17:34):
homework.
When we start to peel back thelayers around, hmm, what's
driving this behavior is to keepa journal right.
You could have it be a physicaljournal, like even just a sheet
of paper next to you everysingle day at work for at least
two weeks, or you can do it inan online journal, and she
basically started deconstructingevery day.
How did I show up?
Where did I feel that I kind ofpulled back from my power?
(17:54):
What meetings did I feel goodin?
What did I not feel good in?
And try to identify how she wasspeaking to herself in that
moment.
The way we speak to ourselvescan be really abusive and it
also is very irrational, right,like our rational brain as
adults knows like oh my God,that's so ridiculous.
Of course it's safe for me tosay X, y, z, but in the moment
(18:16):
it doesn't feel that way.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (18:23):
Showing emotion, showing empathy at work
, you know, is generally notdone.
I mean it is, but people usedto think in the past that it was
not a good thing and it'scriticized.
So what has changed now?
And how do you guide leaders tosay it's okay to show
(18:46):
vulnerability or empathy oremotion?
Marla Teyolia (18:49):
Yeah, I think, first and foremost in the
coaching space, because it'ssuch a sacred, confidential
space.
Giving them permission toaccess their own emotions is
where it starts.
So if you are not acknowledgingyour own emotional tapestry and
(19:11):
landscape, you're not going tobe able to acknowledge it for
anybody else, and so that'swhere it becomes almost like a
checkoff list.
You see people who are like I'msupposed to be supportive and
empathic, but you're not evenempathic with yourself.
And do you think that theworkforce is changing?
I'm not necessarily suggestingis that we become quote
(19:35):
emotional in the workspace.
What I'm suggesting is that wehonor that we are, have emotions
and have we are emotionalbeings and that we need to learn
how to engage with our emotionsand learn to engage with other
people and connect with people,understanding that they have
(19:56):
emotions, and that we want tocreate real trust and cultures
of inclusion and where folksfeel that they can be seen and
supported.
It Right, and so there is also,I think, a new wave of folks
entering the workplace who haveexpectations that their
(20:17):
emotional wellbeing is alsogoing to be part of the
conversation, and someindustries more than others,
right, I think there are somevery still traditional
industries where you may not seethis as much.
Monica Enand (20:28):
I want you to expand, if you don't mind, on
something you said.
You said I'm not saying weshould be emotional at work, but
that we should acknowledge thatwe have emotions.
We're humans and humans haveemotions, and it's part of our
power, it's part of our humanity.
What do you mean by not beingemotional at work?
Marla Teyolia (20:48):
What I mean is that I have witnessed I also
have developed a lot ofinclusion coaching programs in
companies and sometimes ourtears can be weaponized.
We need to be really consciousof how we utilize our emotions
(21:15):
in spaces, sometimes to get whatwe want, and it is okay.
I've been in meetings wherefolks have cried and said I need
a minute, I'm really emotional,there's something really coming
up for me, right.
That is totally fine, becauseyou are a human being who has
emotions.
It's a very different dynamicwhen your emotions have gotten
(21:40):
so heightened that you're soupset.
It's gotten the best of you andit's actually driving
maladaptive behavior.
That's different and I've seenboth happen, right.
I've seen people get so angryand so upset that they start
doing destructive things andsaying destructive things within
team sessions that it's like ifthey were able to tend to their
(22:03):
anger, they could disrupt theway the anger is actually being
destructive towards other people, right.
So so that's where I'm talkingabout the difference, right.
And there are some cultureswhere explosive anger coming
from male leaders was acceptedand it was like oh, that's how
he is, and it was an oppressiveway of navigating, not okay, and
(22:26):
created unhealthy and toxicenvironments.
And I will say that when an awoman does that, she is she
given the same latitude or grace?
Absolutely not, and youremotions are something you need
to be responsible for,especially when you have power.
So this isn't about armoring upand saying I can't show emotion
(22:47):
of anything.
Vulnerability all researchshows vulnerability leaders who
are willing to share theiremotions and share what's really
happening for them.
People connect and they want tofollow those kind of leaders
Because it's true empathy andthere's vulnerability and they
can be seen as whole humanbeings.
Monica Enand (23:07):
You know, listening to you it almost blows
my mind how the things that wedo we claim for the minority,
like you know, a lot of thisinclusive culture.
People think that we'relearning inclusive culture
because there is diversity andso that if you're not like the
majority that you need thisinclusive culture.
(23:28):
And it turns out that actuallythe inclusive culture helps
everyone, even the white males,like all.
It helps everyone.
Yeah, because it helps everyonein the workplace.
It creates just a betterworkplace where you can have
more collaboration.
So you're not doing it.
You can say you want to do itfor people who are
underrepresented in theworkplace, but frankly, you
(23:50):
don't need to do it.
You can just do it for everyoneand it helps everyone right.
And it's not necessarily abenefit to a change that is a
benefit to underrepresentedgroups.
It's a change that's benefitingeverybody.
Marla Teyolia (24:04):
A hundred percent right.
Everybody benefits from aninclusive environment where you
feel safe and psychologicallysafe and you feel like you can
bring your best foot forward anddo your best work right.
Everybody benefits from that.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (24:16):
So, marla, I have a question forward.
And do your best work right.
Everybody benefits from that.
So, marla, I have a question,as after you work, you know you
said you finished an engagementwith one client after two months
.
So they have a certain level ofenergy now, or a certain level
of, you know, the right mindset,emotional wherewithal that they
understand, mindset, emotionalwherewithal that they understand
(24:36):
.
How do you maintain that energy?
How does that person?
Marla Teyolia (24:50):
or how do we maintain energy and emotion in
the right way long-term, I think, going back to kind of what we
shared around?
You've got to have practicesfor yourself to tend to the
multiple energy bodies that youhave, right?
So when I think of energymaintenance, I'm thinking about
your physical self.
Right, like your physicalnourishment.
Are you getting enough rest?
Are you eating well?
Right?
Are there breaks throughoutyour day that gives your
(25:10):
physical body a time torecalibrate?
Right?
Are you dealing with youremotional self?
What does that look like?
And for everybody it can bedifferent, right?
For some people they're like Isee a therapist twice a month
and that's something that kindof helps keep me steady.
For some, it's like I dojournaling and I process at the
end of the day, right, whatworked, what didn't.
(25:33):
I'm trying to really givemyself just a space to unpack so
that I can have a good night'ssleep.
Think about your social self.
Are you socially connected withothers?
All research shows that thosepeople who are socially
connected they live longer,actually, and they live fuller
lives.
What about your creative self?
(25:54):
I think a lot of times, unlessyou're in a creative industry,
you think that creativitystopped in childhood.
Right Like what are the thingsthat are generative, that bring
you joy?
And I think mindset work is abig piece of the way in which I
work with folks.
Right Is having rituals foryourself that help generate more
(26:17):
of that positive thinking thatyou're trying to move forward
towards, and, I think, with acoach.
If you work with a coach who'shelping you with mindset work,
they will typically give youspecific exercises to do based
on what it is that you're tryingto transform.
Monica Enand (26:40):
Well, marla, I have to say I think you're doing
a very good job.
I'm going to let you in on asecret.
When we were thinking aboutpreparing for this discussion
with you on this podcast, yousent a voice memo, I think, or
you left a voicemail forGeorgiana and Georgiana
forwarded it to Sejal and I, andthe first thing Sejal and I
both said once we listened to itis we said wow, I feel calm
(27:08):
listening to that woman's voice.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (27:09):
Yay, literally on the voicemail, but
throughout this entire podcastas you're talking, marla you
have a gift of speaking, in away that's very calming.
Thank you, it is.
Maybe it's the tone of yourvoice, or maybe you've learned
it, or maybe it's inherent, butit's phenomenal, even on a
(27:30):
podcast.
Thank you, I really appreciatethat and.
Marla Teyolia (27:32):
I receive that.
I get that feedback a lot and Ithink if you would talk to my
family they would be like that'swork voice.
Monica Enand (27:41):
Thank you so much.
This has been wonderful, Marla.
We really appreciate youjoining us.
I know there's so much.
You know we've been talking alot about coaching, but I think
you brought a completelydifferent lens to this that you
know we're happy to share withour listeners.
I think it's already impactedme, and I'm sure Sejal feels the
(28:02):
same.
Yeah.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (28:03):
Same.
Monica Enand (28:03):
And I know that anybody listening will feel
impacted and they can find outmore about you at Culture Shift
Agency.
Is that correct Culture?
Marla Teyolia (28:11):
Shift, yep, cultureshiftagency, and they can
also follow me on Instagram, atMarla Talia, or on LinkedIn.
We do a lot of.
I do once a year a retreatcalled pause and press play to
restore to retreat for women ofcolor in Mexico.
That happens every June.
There's always offerings thatI'll be putting on LinkedIn or
(28:36):
on Instagram as well, and youcan absolutely connect with us
on our website,cultureshipagency.
Monica Enand (28:42):
We'll make sure to make sure that we give people a
way to do that.
Marla Teyolia (28:45):
Thank you, Marla.
I appreciate you both.
Thank you.
Georgianna Moreland (28:48):
Thank you for listening today.
We would love for you to followand subscribe.
Monica and Sejo would love tohear from you.
You can text us directly fromthe link in the show notes of
this episode.
You can also find us on theLinkedIn page at Masterstroke
Podcast with Monica Enid andSejo Petrozak.
Until next time.
I've seen people walk in to corporations healthy,
having had their you knowphysicals and a year later,
through the amount of stress andarmoring up they've had to do,
they have high blood pressure,they're pre-diabetic, they have
high cholesterol.
Right, and heightened cortisol,like chronic cortisol levels
(00:23):
over a period of time,predispose us to those three
metabolic factors high bloodpressure, diabetes and
cholesterol.
There's real impacts to us.
Not being true to ourselves.
Georgianna Moreland (00:36):
This is Masterstroke with Monica Enid
and Sejal Petrazak H Zak.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (00:48):
Well, welcome everyone.
We're super excited to have anexciting guest today.
Marla Teolia is a workplacestrategist and holistic
executive coach.
She's got 20 years ofleadership development and group
facilitation experience and ispassionate super passionate
about empowering individuals andteams to help us all think
(01:10):
about and assess how we think,behave, work and how we can make
lasting impact for both ourpersonal and our professional
lives.
So how does Marla do it?
She uses what's called aconversational intelligence
framework, ciq, to leverage thepower of neuroscience and
(01:33):
language to establish highlevels of trust that trigger
growth and innovation.
Monica Enand (01:39):
Oh, thank you so much, sejal, and thank you,
marla, for being here with us.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (01:43):
Yeah, thank you.
Monica Enand (01:44):
Sejal and I have talked a lot about different
types of executive coaching andways that we can up our game, so
I can't wait to hear more fromyou.
I'm dying to know because youknow I feel like I've been
exposed to lots of differenttypes of coaching and therapy
and all kinds of different waysto increase trust, and you know
(02:05):
psychological well-being andpsychological safety.
We've had all these goodconversations about it in the
workplace but, I've never heardof conversational intelligence,
so I'm dying to know.
can you tell us a little bitabout what is conversational
intelligence?
Marla Teyolia (02:20):
For sure.
It's one of the frameworks thatI use and it was pioneered in
the executive kind of leadershipdevelopment space by a woman by
the name of Judith Glasser, whohas since passed away, but it's
based on the notion thatconversations are essentially
energetic and electricalcommunications between people.
(02:42):
Right?
So if you think about, andelectrical communications
between people, right.
So if you think about, I canguarantee every one of us has
been in a conversation wheresomething that the person says
puts us on guard.
Right, we immediately say, oh,it could be tone, it could be
word choice.
There's something about thatcommunication that is conveyed
(03:04):
to me on an energetic level thatI need to protect myself.
And so what happens is that ourneuro systems really get
activated, so much so that it'scalled an amygdala hijack.
Right, we go into this part ofour brain that says, oh, fight,
(03:25):
flight, freeze or fawn, thissystem gets activated, and what
happens is that it actuallydiminishes our executive
functioning.
Where creativity lives, wheretrust lives, where good
decision-making lives, and if wecan be conscious about how we
(03:45):
are showing up in space, likeour own energy field, how we are
showing up as leaders that canprime our teams and individuals
for trust and creativity and toget the best out of them,
because their nervous system iscalm, around us, right, it's
(04:06):
settled, and when we are in thatcalm, settled place, we have so
much more access to variousparts of our brains to do the
best work possible, right.
So that is one of theframeworks that I use, and I
think it's important to namethat, while Judith Glasser
pioneered this work in corporatespaces, it's very much based on
(04:30):
indigenous knowledge andsystems of being.
Monica Enand (04:33):
Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
You know, I've read a number ofbusiness books and that are
concepts that come in businesstraining and then we learn that,
oh, these concepts have existedfor thousands of years, these
things have been around forthousands of years, they just
got a different name put on itand then put in our business
(04:55):
school press and it's like it'sactually not new news to the
human race.
Marla Teyolia (05:02):
It's not right, and so, for me, I really one of
my purposes is to bring theseancient technologies and merge
them with real cutting edgewisdom and neuroscience to be
able to have us be like our mostempowered selves and to create
deep impact.
Right, Because we, as leaders,we are in charge of supporting
(05:24):
other people to reach theirhighest potential.
Monica Enand (05:26):
You know something you said.
I think that's really importantbecause what I've also this was
news to me and I'm only sayingI know you already know this,
but I'm only saying this for ourlisteners because I learned
this sort of I think, late inlife.
Like I learned that you knowwhen you're amygdala, you know
you have this lizard brain andthat when your amygdala is
activated, that you know.
(05:48):
Because they've looked atbrains under fMRI machines, we
now know that you know the otherparts of your brain can't
activate at the same time, likewhen you say loss of executive
function, like when youramygdala is firing, the frontal
lobe is shutting down, right,and we know this now with
science and I mean really coolfMRI machines to know that this
(06:09):
is absolutely true, right?
Marla Teyolia (06:11):
And I think that what you're pointing to is
science has shown us that.
But part of my work withleaders is to remind us that we
actually have a body that'sgiving us that information, that
we actually have a body that'sgiving us that information that
we don't need quote science tovalidate.
And our body is an incrediblesource of wisdom, and so, a lot
(06:33):
of times, my work withindividuals is to get them to
slow down so that they can beginto listen to what their body's
wisdom is trying to tell them.
Right, and our bodies knowbefore our brains know and can
make sense of it from anintellectual place.
Right?
And so I call this work energymaintenance work, because,
(06:56):
ultimately, we are vital sourcesof energy.
We are energy in human form, andso, in order to be able to get
to that place where you areconscious of what's happening in
your mindset right, the scriptsthat you're telling yourself or
you're conscious of wow, I'mapproaching a certain
(07:17):
conversation and I've gotbutterflies in my stomach and
I'm feeling really nervous,right.
Or oh, my hands are reallysweating in this conversation
and I'm feeling really nervous,right?
Or oh, my hands are reallysweating in this conversation
and I'm actually feeling like Ineed to.
I'm a little.
Some fear is getting activated.
That's all information, and ifyou can notice what the body is
telling you, you can begin totend to it and disrupt it.
(07:38):
Live in the moment so that youcan show up in a much more calm
and centered and grounded place.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (07:52):
So can I ask, Marla, let's suppose you're
about to meet with somebody orgive a speech or give a
presentation or do somethingthat is making your hands sweat
or is making you feel thosebutterflies in your stomach or
your heart pound what are some,if any, quick tricks that we can
tell our listeners on ways tobe able to have that notion of
calm?
Marla Teyolia (08:12):
So I think it's something that happens prior to
that moment.
Right, I'm not going to saythat it's too late once you're
there.
But one thing about anxiety ifit goes into anxiety, anxiety
actually is a physiologicalresponse that has to see its way
through, and so anxiety issomething where you might start
shaking.
You're feeling like yournervous system is really
(08:35):
activated and you feel like, oh,I'm getting out of breath.
We don't want folks to get tothat place, and so what I
encourage is that you begin tohave, uh, build practices in
your daily life that build thatmuscle.
So, the way you would go to agym, you wouldn't go in and lift
the heaviest weights, right,when you get there.
Right, it's something you'regoing to build over time and so,
(08:58):
with leaders, a lot of it.
It's, it's simple practices.
Can you start your day withjust 15 minutes, five minutes?
Even?
Start small and just sitsilently, eyes closed, and you
could put on a timer and justnotice that you have a body that
breathes.
Monica Enand (09:30):
First a couple of thoughts on what you're saying.
I have definitely felt like, asI've learned more about being
in high pressure situations as aCEO, giving presentations, as
Sejal says, or really criticalmeetings walking into critical
meetings We've done that, bothof us.
Or really critical meetingswalking into critical meetings
We've done that, both of us.
And I guess I wish I had metyou.
But I had to learn sort of thehard way how to try to calm
(09:51):
myself down, and a lot of youknow, I think what I do is a lot
of breathing, is I try to likebreathe deeply, to kind of tell
my whatever my sympatheticnervous system or my
parasympathetic, I'm not surewhich one, but just to tell my
nervous system to like calm downand to relax.
But what I want to say is likeI somehow feel like when you say
(10:15):
anxiety is a physiologicalresponse of course it's
physiological I sometimes feellike in our society we forget
that, like you said, simply thatwe have a body, but we also
forget that our mind is attachedto that body and that actually
all those things that arehappening in your body come from
your mind, like your mind istelling your body to do those
(10:37):
things for good reason.
It's trying to protect you from, you know, a bear or a lion or
whatever why we evolved the waywe did, but it is trying to
protect you from socialostracization or whatever.
The other thing that I thoughtabout while you were talking is
I've spent all this time doingpresentations, being in
(10:58):
high-stress business situationsand realizing that, yeah, I need
these little tactics.
But to me, one thing I'velearned is that those tactics
are useful in all aspects of mylife.
Like Sejal, you've got to havelearned this too right that,
like, whatever you use to calmyourself down for a high stress
interview, you know I now play alittle competitive pickleball
(11:19):
in my neighborhood.
I mean not at a high level, butjust, you know, neighborhood
pickleball.
But it's still stressfulbecause people are watching you,
your team is counting on youand right before the serve I
have this habit now, like peoplehave established these routines
Right before I serve, I justtake this huge deep breath and
sometimes people say, gosh, wereyou really nervous?
And I think no, I'm not nervous.
(11:41):
I'm trying not to get nervous,like, as you said, marla, I'm
trying to head that off.
Like I know that it can bestressful and I'm trying to,
like, calm my body down so thatI can be calm enough to hit the
ball.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (11:54):
Well, but one of the things that's
interesting, monica, is foranybody who feels it, isn't it
true, that the nervousness orthe anxiety or the worry Is
before, but then, once you're init, you don't even have a mind
to think about all of thatbecause you're so focused on
being in it.
Monica Enand (12:15):
Once you can get into the zone, but it's actually
hard to get into the zone, Ithink.
Marla Teyolia (12:18):
Yeah, and I think you know what you're saying,
monica is for me, a core tenetof my work is that you get to be
a whole human being being right.
So when we're dealing withexecutive coaching, I guarantee
when we start addressing some ofyour core issues and core ways
(12:39):
of how you're speaking toyourself, limitations of how
you're engaging with otherpeople, people start to see
themselves in their personallives and in their professional
lives and realizing oh, I'mactually doing this all over the
place, right, like it's veryrare that you have one
maladaptive behavior that justshows up in one part of your
(13:01):
life.
That's just not how it works.
Monica Enand (13:03):
I try to tell my husband that all the time, and
so Give that maladaptive.
I'm just starting to use theword maladaptive behavior.
Let's see how that goes over myhead.
Marla Teyolia (13:13):
Right that Ultimately, it's just like
what's driving you right, likethere's something that's driving
the way you're showing up.
And I had one client years ago.
He was a VP at a tech companyand we got to an edge of how he
was engaging with certainmembers of his team where he did
(13:34):
not really respect them andtheir viewpoints and what was
showing up and it was also verycultural as well, like some kind
of I call them wounds, right,it's like this big ouch that
happened to you and that you areperpetuating in the workplace.
(13:55):
That often comes from a it'susually early childhood.
There's some cultural context,there's something that has
happened to you that has createdsome kind of way of being, and
typically that has roots wayearlier in your history.
And I want to be clear that youknow I was trained
therapeutically but I'm not atherapist, right, and there's a
(14:17):
line between therapy andcoaching that needs to be
respected and but what's helpfulis to understand oh, wow,
there's something here that isdriving a behavior, and it's
usually based on some kind ofwound.
If it's deep seated, I actuallymay need to go to therapy for
it.
If it's something that actuallyI'm able to transform on my own
with some support, but it'smoving into the future.
(14:39):
Okay, I may not have to go totherapy, but what happened in
that situation was he identifiedhow he was engaging with a
certain member of his team andit was very oppressive, and he
started.
He came back a few weeks laterand said, oh my God, I'm seeing
how I'm speaking to my wife andmy child when I'm frustrated.
(15:02):
And he couldn't unsee thatanymore, right?
And so there's beauty in beingable to see it, because then you
can transform it.
Right.
We are humans who are walkingaround with lots of stuff
because we are just people inthis world and there's things
that have happened to us, and Ithink that I really hold our
(15:23):
healing as a core leadershipdevelopment responsibility.
What would the world be like ifour leaders were healed and
doing their own work?
Wow, what a different world wewould be in, right?
And so I really hold personaldevelopment and healing as a
core leadership responsibility,because how you show up in these
(15:45):
maladaptive ways will impactyour teams, will impact how you
lead right, and I was thinkingabout a client recently who she
was really hard driving, and Ithink when we are in
corporations where productivityand the bottom line is really
(16:10):
ever-present stress and a goaland a marker for us.
She was so hard-driving.
Her team never felt thatwhatever they did was never
enough.
When we started doing PAC, youcan imagine there was a parental
wound there that she was neverenough for her mom right Like
that's where it was coming from.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (16:36):
What are some practices that I can do, you
know, to help me uncover that ifI have some kind of limiting
mindset or some kind of achallenge, what are some of
those things that they can do?
Marla Teyolia (16:50):
Yeah, great question.
So typically, when folks cometo me, there's a specific issue
that they're wanting to address,right?
So I'll use an example of awoman executive VP at a tech
company and she had come to mewith really feeling like she
(17:11):
needed to step more powerfullyinto her role.
That was given to her, but shedidn't feel she was really
stepping into it powerfully.
What I heard was I'm kind ofdisconnected from my power and
agency in that her work and it'san activity that I give her
(17:34):
homework.
When we start to peel back thelayers around, hmm, what's
driving this behavior is to keepa journal right.
You could have it be a physicaljournal, like even just a sheet
of paper next to you everysingle day at work for at least
two weeks, or you can do it inan online journal, and she
basically started deconstructingevery day.
How did I show up?
Where did I feel that I kind ofpulled back from my power?
(17:54):
What meetings did I feel goodin?
What did I not feel good in?
And try to identify how she wasspeaking to herself in that
moment.
The way we speak to ourselvescan be really abusive and it
also is very irrational, right,like our rational brain as
adults knows like oh my God,that's so ridiculous.
Of course it's safe for me tosay X, y, z, but in the moment
(18:16):
it doesn't feel that way.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (18:23):
Showing emotion, showing empathy at work
, you know, is generally notdone.
I mean it is, but people usedto think in the past that it was
not a good thing and it'scriticized.
So what has changed now?
And how do you guide leaders tosay it's okay to show
(18:46):
vulnerability or empathy oremotion?
Marla Teyolia (18:49):
Yeah, I think, first and foremost in the
coaching space, because it'ssuch a sacred, confidential
space.
Giving them permission toaccess their own emotions is
where it starts.
So if you are not acknowledgingyour own emotional tapestry and
(19:11):
landscape, you're not going tobe able to acknowledge it for
anybody else, and so that'swhere it becomes almost like a
checkoff list.
You see people who are like I'msupposed to be supportive and
empathic, but you're not evenempathic with yourself.
And do you think that theworkforce is changing?
I'm not necessarily suggestingis that we become quote
(19:35):
emotional in the workspace.
What I'm suggesting is that wehonor that we are, have emotions
and have we are emotionalbeings and that we need to learn
how to engage with our emotionsand learn to engage with other
people and connect with people,understanding that they have
(19:56):
emotions, and that we want tocreate real trust and cultures
of inclusion and where folksfeel that they can be seen and
supported.
It Right, and so there is also,I think, a new wave of folks
entering the workplace who haveexpectations that their
(20:17):
emotional wellbeing is alsogoing to be part of the
conversation, and someindustries more than others,
right, I think there are somevery still traditional
industries where you may not seethis as much.
Monica Enand (20:28):
I want you to expand, if you don't mind, on
something you said.
You said I'm not saying weshould be emotional at work, but
that we should acknowledge thatwe have emotions.
We're humans and humans haveemotions, and it's part of our
power, it's part of our humanity.
What do you mean by not beingemotional at work?
Marla Teyolia (20:48):
What I mean is that I have witnessed I also
have developed a lot ofinclusion coaching programs in
companies and sometimes ourtears can be weaponized.
We need to be really consciousof how we utilize our emotions
(21:15):
in spaces, sometimes to get whatwe want, and it is okay.
I've been in meetings wherefolks have cried and said I need
a minute, I'm really emotional,there's something really coming
up for me, right.
That is totally fine, becauseyou are a human being who has
emotions.
It's a very different dynamicwhen your emotions have gotten
(21:40):
so heightened that you're soupset.
It's gotten the best of you andit's actually driving
maladaptive behavior.
That's different and I've seenboth happen, right.
I've seen people get so angryand so upset that they start
doing destructive things andsaying destructive things within
team sessions that it's like ifthey were able to tend to their
(22:03):
anger, they could disrupt theway the anger is actually being
destructive towards other people, right.
So so that's where I'm talkingabout the difference, right.
And there are some cultureswhere explosive anger coming
from male leaders was acceptedand it was like oh, that's how
he is, and it was an oppressiveway of navigating, not okay, and
(22:26):
created unhealthy and toxicenvironments.
And I will say that when an awoman does that, she is she
given the same latitude or grace?
Absolutely not, and youremotions are something you need
to be responsible for,especially when you have power.
So this isn't about armoring upand saying I can't show emotion
(22:47):
of anything.
Vulnerability all researchshows vulnerability leaders who
are willing to share theiremotions and share what's really
happening for them.
People connect and they want tofollow those kind of leaders
Because it's true empathy andthere's vulnerability and they
can be seen as whole humanbeings.
Monica Enand (23:07):
You know, listening to you it almost blows
my mind how the things that wedo we claim for the minority,
like you know, a lot of thisinclusive culture.
People think that we'relearning inclusive culture
because there is diversity andso that if you're not like the
majority that you need thisinclusive culture.
(23:28):
And it turns out that actuallythe inclusive culture helps
everyone, even the white males,like all.
It helps everyone.
Yeah, because it helps everyonein the workplace.
It creates just a betterworkplace where you can have
more collaboration.
So you're not doing it.
You can say you want to do itfor people who are
underrepresented in theworkplace, but frankly, you
(23:50):
don't need to do it.
You can just do it for everyoneand it helps everyone right.
And it's not necessarily abenefit to a change that is a
benefit to underrepresentedgroups.
It's a change that's benefitingeverybody.
Marla Teyolia (24:04):
A hundred percent right.
Everybody benefits from aninclusive environment where you
feel safe and psychologicallysafe and you feel like you can
bring your best foot forward anddo your best work right.
Everybody benefits from that.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (24:16):
So, marla, I have a question forward.
And do your best work right.
Everybody benefits from that.
So, marla, I have a question,as after you work, you know you
said you finished an engagementwith one client after two months
.
So they have a certain level ofenergy now, or a certain level
of, you know, the right mindset,emotional wherewithal that they
understand, mindset, emotionalwherewithal that they understand
(24:36):
.
How do you maintain that energy?
How does that person?
Marla Teyolia (24:50):
or how do we maintain energy and emotion in
the right way long-term, I think, going back to kind of what we
shared around?
You've got to have practicesfor yourself to tend to the
multiple energy bodies that youhave, right?
So when I think of energymaintenance, I'm thinking about
your physical self.
Right, like your physicalnourishment.
Are you getting enough rest?
Are you eating well?
Right?
Are there breaks throughoutyour day that gives your
(25:10):
physical body a time torecalibrate?
Right?
Are you dealing with youremotional self?
What does that look like?
And for everybody it can bedifferent, right?
For some people they're like Isee a therapist twice a month
and that's something that kindof helps keep me steady.
For some, it's like I dojournaling and I process at the
end of the day, right, whatworked, what didn't.
(25:33):
I'm trying to really givemyself just a space to unpack so
that I can have a good night'ssleep.
Think about your social self.
Are you socially connected withothers?
All research shows that thosepeople who are socially
connected they live longer,actually, and they live fuller
lives.
What about your creative self?
(25:54):
I think a lot of times, unlessyou're in a creative industry,
you think that creativitystopped in childhood.
Right Like what are the thingsthat are generative, that bring
you joy?
And I think mindset work is abig piece of the way in which I
work with folks.
Right Is having rituals foryourself that help generate more
(26:17):
of that positive thinking thatyou're trying to move forward
towards, and, I think, with acoach.
If you work with a coach who'shelping you with mindset work,
they will typically give youspecific exercises to do based
on what it is that you're tryingto transform.
Monica Enand (26:40):
Well, marla, I have to say I think you're doing
a very good job.
I'm going to let you in on asecret.
When we were thinking aboutpreparing for this discussion
with you on this podcast, yousent a voice memo, I think, or
you left a voicemail forGeorgiana and Georgiana
forwarded it to Sejal and I, andthe first thing Sejal and I
both said once we listened to itis we said wow, I feel calm
(27:08):
listening to that woman's voice.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (27:09):
Yay, literally on the voicemail, but
throughout this entire podcastas you're talking, marla you
have a gift of speaking, in away that's very calming.
Thank you, it is.
Maybe it's the tone of yourvoice, or maybe you've learned
it, or maybe it's inherent, butit's phenomenal, even on a
(27:30):
podcast.
Thank you, I really appreciatethat and.
Marla Teyolia (27:32):
I receive that.
I get that feedback a lot and Ithink if you would talk to my
family they would be like that'swork voice.
Monica Enand (27:41):
Thank you so much.
This has been wonderful, Marla.
We really appreciate youjoining us.
I know there's so much.
You know we've been talking alot about coaching, but I think
you brought a completelydifferent lens to this that you
know we're happy to share withour listeners.
I think it's already impactedme, and I'm sure Sejal feels the
(28:02):
same.
Yeah.
Sejal C. Pietrzak (28:03):
Same.
Monica Enand (28:03):
And I know that anybody listening will feel
impacted and they can find outmore about you at Culture Shift
Agency.
Is that correct Culture?
Marla Teyolia (28:11):
Shift, yep, cultureshiftagency, and they can
also follow me on Instagram, atMarla Talia, or on LinkedIn.
We do a lot of.
I do once a year a retreatcalled pause and press play to
restore to retreat for women ofcolor in Mexico.
That happens every June.
There's always offerings thatI'll be putting on LinkedIn or
(28:36):
on Instagram as well, and youcan absolutely connect with us
on our website,cultureshipagency.
Monica Enand (28:42):
We'll make sure to make sure that we give people a
way to do that.
Marla Teyolia (28:45):
Thank you, Marla.
I appreciate you both.
Thank you.
Georgianna Moreland (28:48):
Thank you for listening today.
We would love for you to followand subscribe.
Monica and Sejo would love tohear from you.
You can text us directly fromthe link in the show notes of
this episode.
You can also find us on theLinkedIn page at Masterstroke
Podcast with Monica Enid andSejo Petrozak.
Until next time.
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