September 17, 2024 • 51 mins
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In this compelling episode, Monica Enand and guest co-host Ned Renzi delve into the dynamic intersection of educational leadership and technology with Dr. Monica Goldson, the retired CEO of Prince George's County Public Schools. Dr. Goldson's journey to becoming one of the pioneering leaders in one of the nation's largest and most diverse school districts offers invaluable insights into managing complex educational systems and driving innovation during challenging times.
Dr. Goldson's story is a testament to the power of dedication and adaptability. Starting as a mathematics teacher, she rose through various leadership roles, ultimately overseeing a $2.4 billion budget as CEO during the COVID-19 pandemic. Her current role at EdExec Leadership Group continues to influence educational leadership and development. This episode highlights the importance of visionary leadership in navigating crises and seizing opportunities for transformative change.
One of the critical aspects discussed is the complexity of managing a large school district with a diverse board of 14 members, half elected and half appointed. Dr. Goldson emphasizes the importance of having board members with specialized knowledge in areas such as business, construction, and finance to effectively manage substantial budgets. The episode also explores the difficulties superintendents face in aligning board members and making tough decisions, including knowing when it's time to step down.
The potential of artificial intelligence (AI) in education is another significant topic. Dr. Goldson explains how AI can enhance student learning and streamline teachers' workloads. AI assists students with tasks like outlining papers, getting immediate feedback, and understanding complex problems, fostering creative learning. For teachers, AI can significantly reduce burnout by automating routine tasks such as drafting parent communications, creating lesson plans, and checking for assessment bias. The rapid technological advancements in education, accelerated by the pandemic, are reshaping the educational landscape, making student-centered learning more accessible.
Equity and excellence in education are at the forefront of this discussion. Dr. Goldson shares strategies for ensuring equitable resource distribution across diverse school districts. The role of the U.S. Department of Education in local school districts is scrutinized, with a call for the Department to focus more on providing technical assistance rather than enforcing compliance tied to funding. Emerging educational technologies that support students outside school hours, especially those from economically disadvantaged backgrounds, are highlighted as crucial tools for bridging educational gaps. In our final segment, we explore the role of technology in creating a more equitable and effective educational system. Dr. Goldson highlights the importance of understanding community needs and leveraging technology to meet those needs.
Georgianna Moreland - Creator, Executive Producer & Managing Editor;
Matt Stoker - Editor
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Monica Goldson (00:03):
I did look at education as a business.
I led a $2.4 billioncorporation Next to AI.
This is the second mostimportant conversation that's
happening now between students,teachers, and welcome to our
special guest host, ned Renzi.
Georgianna Morela (00:26):
Conversations with founders, ceos and
visionary leaders in technologyand beyond.
Monica Enand (00:39):
Welcome to Masterstroke.
We have a very exciting episodetoday and we I don't know if
everyone can handle it, but wehave not one, but two Monicas on
the show today.
Me, of course.
It's going to be an amazing day.
Yes, Me, of course, and DrMonica Goldson.
And I'm joined today again bymy guest host, Ned Renzi.
(01:02):
Thank you for being here, Ned.
Ned Renzi (01:03):
Thanks, Monica.
Monica Enand (01:04):
And I will let Ned introduce his colleague Dr
Goldson.
Ned Renzi (01:08):
Yeah, so Dr Monica Goldson welcome.
So Dr Goldson's the retiredchief executive officer of
Prince George's County PublicSchools, which is one of the
nation's largest immerseddiverse school districts.
Let me know if I get thesestats right, but I think you
served over 130,000 studentsacross 200 schools and like
(01:30):
19,000 staff members, so quite alarge organization.
And today you're now the CEO ofEdExec Leadership Group, which
is a leadership and developmentexecutive coaching firm where
you focus on helping educationalleaders and organizations
maximize their potential.
Dr. Monica Goldson (01:49):
Ned, you got it correct and the stats are
accurate.
Ned Renzi (01:52):
I passed the test.
Dr. Monica Goldson (01:53):
All right, yes, from a former mathematician
, you did it.
Ned Renzi (01:58):
Nice.
Monica Enand (01:59):
All right.
Well, we're so glad you're here.
Education is such an importanttopic for us to discuss,
especially in this disruptivetime that we're living in.
But you spent 32 years in thePrince George's County public
school system, and this is oneof the top 20%.
It's in the top 20% of thelargest districts in the nation.
(02:21):
Well, first of all,congratulations on your
retirement.
We look way too young to havethe word retirement associated
with you, and so I know you'redoing some exciting things now.
Thank you for that.
But what I really want to knowis 32 years in the school
district ending your career notending, I guess, but culminating
your career with a CEO, beingthe CEO of Prince George County.
(02:43):
Tell us a little bit about thatcareer journey, like how did
you end up as the CEO?
Dr. Monica Goldson (02:47):
Yeah, actually it was not something I
was seeking to do, as mostthings, it just happened.
I have an amazing.
I had an amazing career in thesame school district I had the
opportunity to grow up in, whichis very rare, yeah, so I went
to elementary, middle and highschool in my same school
(03:08):
district.
Now, was that ever planned?
No, I'm an only child.
When I graduated from highschool, I wanted to get as far
away as possible, so I went toFlorida A&M University and I
went to major in actuary science, had no desire to go into
education, even though I comefrom a long line of educators.
What people know aboutactuaries is that you have to
(03:31):
take 10 mathematics exams to bea certified actuary, and I
figured, you know what?
Maybe I'll just teach amathematics class while I'm
preparing for the first threeactuary exams and then, by the
time you get two or three underyour belt, typically insurance
companies will pay for you tocome on and work for them and
allow you to study during theworkday and work at the same
(03:52):
time.
So that was really my plan.
Yeah, clearly I was not incontrol of that plan.
I went to my former high schoolprincipal, hired me to teach at
another high school.
He was at a different highschool mathematics and after the
first week of school I knewthat I was destined to remain in
education.
Wow, so that's how I started.
(04:16):
I worked my way up.
I was a mathematics teacher, aninstructional specialist, who
helped middle and high schoolmath teachers throughout the
district.
I became an assistant principal, a principal so a principal of
two high schools opened a newone, had one that was
overcrowded and the districtbuilt a new one, opened that one
(04:36):
and then became a chief ofoperations, associate
superintendent over high schools.
And then one day thesuperintendent comes in in July
and says hey, monica, I'm outand the board wants to see you.
Well, first of all, whensomeone says that, that's
normally not a good sign thatthe board wants to see you, and
(04:59):
anyone who knows anything abouteducation, you can pull up an
article right now, today, aboutsome board up to some
shenanigans and.
But there are some boards aredoing amazing things, but there
are some who are not.
And I went down to the boardoffice thinking, oh gosh, what
is this?
And they said, hey, look, wewould love for you to be an
interim CEO superintendent.
And I did think about it.
(05:21):
I went home to talk to my twochildren, and I did think about
it.
I went home to talk to my twochildren.
I have two young men now.
One was still in high school inPrince George's County and the
other one was in college, and soserving in that role meant that
his life could potentiallychange.
A high school student whose momis the superintendent is not
always fun, but he encouraged meto go ahead and do it, and so I
(05:44):
went back and said, yeah, I'lldo it.
And so I was interned for ayear and then was got the
permanent job and wassuperintendent for five years,
of which, let me be clear, feltlike dog years because it was
also during the pandemic.
Monica Enand (05:58):
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Monica Goldson (05:59):
So exactly.
But you know, I have a saying,and it's actually on a sign,
someone gave it to me.
It says never let a good crisisgo to waste.
That's exactly what I, alongwith the executive team, did.
(06:20):
We were able to move thedistrict in a different
direction that I firmly believewe would never have been able to
do had we not been in apandemic.
Monica Enand (06:31):
Okay Well, we want to explore that more, for sure,
but I have a couple ofreactions to what you just said.
First of all, I think actuariesare boring, and you are way not
boring.
So there's no way you aredestined to be an actuary.
That sounds way too boring foryou, exactly, but I thought I
could do it.
Oh, I'm sure you can.
I'm sure you can.
Yeah, it just never happened,right.
(06:51):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt in yourability, I just yeah.
When we started the show,georgiana Moreland and Sejal and
I talked about like how we weregoing to name the show, and we
named it it's called MasterStroke and Georgiana came up
with that name and she said weSejal said like what, what is
Master Stroke?
And she, georgiana, explainedthat like, there are these
(07:13):
moments in life where you make achoice that you know obviously
you would have ended up doingsomething amazing.
You know, I'm convinced thatthere are these moments in time
where you make decisions andthose little decisions really
lead to something.
Dr. Monica Goldson (07:28):
I think so too.
You're right.
Nothing just happens.
You're right Hard work,perseverance.
You know I will say I wasn'tseeking the CEO position.
Monica Enand (07:37):
Yes, ok.
Dr. Monica Goldson (07:39):
So that's why I say it just happens.
But you know, I think whenyou're shifting from one one
position to the next, I thinkthat's always when you're making
a different move or stroke intoa different direction.
And, um, I can remember I was ahigh school principal.
It just opened a school.
I'd said to the superintendent,he came in, he would always
(08:01):
come to visit and I would say,hey, please don't touch me for
five years, let me get thisplace up and running.
He said OK, and ran out andleft out the door, you know like
, went on and visit someclassrooms or whatever.
But something happened in thedistrict.
So I wrote a really quick onepage white paper on why I
(08:23):
thought the decision he made wasnot the best decision.
And the next thing I knew hecalled and he said hey, would
you love to have the associatesuperintendent job over high
school?
I was like, are you crazy?
No, I was really just trying tolet you know that I did not
agree with what just happenedand these are the reasons why.
And he said well, actually thatis why we would need you to
lead, because we need to hearthe voice from the field,
someone who's not concerned,scared to say something to the
(08:47):
leader who's trying to make theright decision, or at least the
best decision for children, andI think that was what caused me
to pivot from being in theschoolhouse to the executive
roles that I continue to acquireright after that, dr Goldson, I
think I may have mentioned inone of our conversations where
(09:09):
we sit on the board.
Ned Renzi (09:09):
I'm the only non-public school teacher in my
family.
My dad was a high schoolprincipal.
My brother is now asuperintendent getting ready to
retire.
Monica and I have interviewed alot of I'll say just captains
of industry and people who havedone things where they report to
a board of directors that aresort of handpicked or they opt
(09:30):
in through an investment orwhatever.
And something that always, like, either fascinated me or
puzzled me about education isyou take people as accomplished
as yourself and you report to aboard of directors who have no
experience in your industry, notraining, no idea how to educate
(09:50):
kids, but they get put in thisrole where they're, they're your
boss.
They get on the board becausethey have a kid who has one
special interest and they thinkthe whole world revolves around
that kid.
Dr. Monica Goldson (10:00):
You know around that one thing and
they're and they're a dog with abone and not letting it go.
Ned Renzi (10:10):
How did you adapt to and deal with a situation like
that?
Dr. Monica Goldson (10:14):
First of all , ned, every superintendent
around the country now wants tocome and hug you because you're
right, that is exactly whatsuperintendents are experiencing
.
That is exactly whatsuperintendents are experiencing
and you know it's you go atfirst of all.
You go into it believing thatevery board member wants the
same thing you do, and that isto provide the best educational
(10:36):
experience possible for children.
What, unfortunately, you cometo find out is that that's not
always the case, and you know,over time, you get to a point
where you realize that theirpersonal agendas are now
hampering your ability to leadand to move a district forward.
(10:57):
And so, in my situation, I hada unique case where I have 14
board members.
In my situation, I had a uniquecase where I have 14 board
members.
That's larger than LA Unified.
That's the largest schooldistrict in the country.
I have 14 school board members.
Half were elected, half wereappointed because the county
(11:19):
executive, which is very similarto a mayor, wanted to try to do
exactly what you said Bring onprofessionals who could serve as
my thought partners.
Hold me accountable, ask mequestions, because I led a $2.4
billion budget.
Billion.
Ned Renzi (11:37):
Wow.
Dr. Monica Goldson (11:38):
And so I needed a variety of members on
that board who had expertise inlots of areas.
Under my leadership, I was ableto bring on a public-private
partnership where we built atotal of now 14 new school
buildings.
So that meant I really neededsomeone who had a business
acumen, who understoodconstruction and who had a true
(12:01):
sense of financing.
You're not always going to getthat with elected officials.
You're getting someone who says, hey, I just want to be a
school board member, who mightjust want to be a school board
member because they eventuallywant to be a county council
member or delegate and they'reusing this as a stepping stone
and an outlet to get there.
And I think you will findacross the country why there
(12:22):
probably is a revolving door inpublic education right now for
superintendents.
It is difficult, I will say inmy five-year tenure you do end
up spending a lot of timetalking to board members.
I spent individual.
I had to meet with peopleindividually.
Then I prepare for boardmeetings in advance.
So of course I'm looking atagenda items, I'm calling before
(12:42):
we get to the meeting Do youhave any questions?
So I'm not blindsided on what Ithink the potential vote may be
.
And then, when you get to apoint where you realize that
everyone is not rowing in thesame direction, you then, as a
leader, have to make a decisionon whether it's time for you to
depart or not.
And when it came time for me Iwas ready for contract renewal I
(13:05):
made a decision that noteveryone on the board wanted to
roll in the same direction.
I wanted to go in and I wasvery honest with the public on
why I was leaving and I made itclear that it was the board.
But I did that not necessarilyto upset them because, hey, I
was leaving, it didn't matter tome.
I did it with the hope thatthey would change their actions
(13:28):
and it would wake up ourcommunity to pay attention to
what was happening in publiceducation.
Do I think I accomplished that?
Probably, maybe about 40% ofthe time it works 40%.
Ned Renzi (13:42):
If you gave me an over under on betting, I would
have bet under 40%.
Dr. Monica Goldson (13:53):
This is the one thing I can tell you about
really great leaders.
You have to know when it istime for you to go.
And.
I think that is a verydifficult decision for CEOs of
companies, profit, nonprofit andleaders in K-12 public
education.
(14:14):
You just cannot get soself-absorbed to think that you
are the end all to be all, that.
There is someone who's going tocome in who can do better and
greater, and why wouldn't youwant them to?
Monica Enand (14:24):
there is someone who's going to come in, who can
do better and greater, and whywouldn't you want them to?
Well, that takes a lot ofmaturity, ego maturity, I think.
I mean you know, ned, and Ihave talked about ego all the
time.
Of course we all have egos, butI think what you're talking
about is a really evolved senseof self and sense of like what
your mission is and how, whatyour role in the mission is.
So I really applaud you forsaying that, because I think
(14:48):
it's an incredibly hard thing.
It's easy to say and thinkabout and it sounds right, but
when people actually do it, it'sincredibly difficult for them
to do.
Dr. Monica Goldson (14:57):
It is very difficult.
I don't want anyone to thinkthat you could just wake up one
morning and be like, hey, Ithink it's time for me to go,
that you could just wake up onemorning and be like, hey, I
think it's time for me to go.
It took me a year for me tovocalize what it is I want that.
Hey, it was time for me topivot.
So lots of times people arelike, oh, you're retired.
(15:19):
Oh, my God, you're too young toretire.
Monica, you even said it and Iconsider it repurposed.
Before I could even get out ofthe door, the governor from
Maryland called and said hey,Monica, could you be on the
State Board of Education inMaryland?
And I said, hey, sure, it's avolunteer position.
Little did I know.
Now I am the vice president ofthat state board, and so and I
(15:41):
get, and I have an opportunitynow to coach other
superintendents across thedistrict along with their
executive staff.
I have the pleasure of sittingon other boards for corporations
that are trying to make adifference in the lives of
students.
And so you make that toughdecision, but it's a decision.
I think that if you can arrivethere and understand that, it's
(16:05):
what's you're making the bestdecision for everyone, yourself
and the organization that youlead, I think you'll find you'll
come out even better on theother side.
Ned Renzi (16:13):
Yeah, dr Goldson, if it's OK, I'd like to maybe take
the conversation a littledifferent direction.
And you know, sort of, for me,one of the things I've been
passionate about as an investoris this intersection of
education and technology, sosort of.
I have an engineeringbackground, but I come from this
family of teachers and so youknow, the hottest thing right
now is obviously artificialintelligence and gen AI, right,
(16:35):
and so you know, you know, whenyou sort of look at this, there
are sort of two parts to it One,how do you think AI can help
students learn more effectively?
And two, how can AI be used tohelp teachers and schools be
more effective?
Dr. Monica Goldson (16:51):
Yeah, I think.
First, the very first thing isthat we have to acknowledge that
there are many students who areusing AI right now period.
So for those school districtswho have turned it off, don't
allow access, have put up afirewall.
You're only hindering theirability to access it during the
day Because more than likely,they're accessing it.
Ned Renzi (17:14):
They're doing it at home, right?
Dr. Monica Goldson (17:17):
Or if they have a cell phone, they're using
it on their cell phone, usingit on their cell phone.
What I, in my conversationswith students and then I'll talk
about the advantages ofstudents and teachers is I
always say to them especiallyfor leaders who represent
diverse districts, such as theone I had is that when you cut
(17:37):
it off, when you cut off aartificial intelligence, what
you're now doing is settingthose kids up to be behind their
peers, and what you don't wantto do is do that because of your
fear of what AI could do.
I had the opportunity to hearsome students talk about AI and
the benefits of what it is, whatit does for them, and the very
(17:58):
first thing that they all talkedabout was is that they use it.
One to give them an outline forwriting.
They don't use it.
Many of them talk hey, we don'tuse it to write our paper for
us, and if our teachers knew ourvoice when we turned in our
papers, they would know who wasusing AI completely and who was
(18:21):
not.
Many students talked aboutusing it for feedback immediate
feedback on their work, or ifthey got stuck in an area.
Um, there are.
Now.
Ai has the ability to evenassist in mathematics, so
helping them to problem solve orto dissect a word problem when
they're like look, the wordproblem is written, I don't even
(18:42):
understand it.
And some have used it as a toolto take the exact word problem,
put it in a tool to say, canyou just reword it so I can
understand it, reword it inlayman's terms, and then have
been able to solve it, and it'sallowed our students to have
creative learning experiences.
That I know as an educator, asa former teacher.
(19:03):
We sometimes get so stuck inwhat we've always done.
We don't come to the tablemeeting the needs of our
students with the creativitylevel that we should.
So that's just a few.
For teachers it's even greater.
So the tool first of all.
We've been talking a lot aboutteacher burnout after coming
(19:26):
back from the pandemic, and soif you want to start to address
teacher burnout, then you've gotto start to integrate AI into
the teacher educator experience.
You could start as simple ashelping them to draft
communications to parents.
To draft communications toparents, making sure that it's
in a tone and a language thatparents can receive, helping to
(19:50):
write creative lesson plans, andso you do, as an educator, have
to put in the standards orobjectives that you're trying to
accomplish.
You've got to put in someparameters.
So AI prompting is reallyimportant.
This is really just a toolthat's kind of directing you,
giving you some ideas.
You're going to still tweak it,you're still going to take that
(20:11):
.
But just imagine, as aneducator I used to spend every
Sunday planning for the entireweek.
If I had AI at my hand, myready set tool, it probably
would not have taken me all ofSunday, probably would have
taken me two hours versus eight.
And so that's where you canlook at the reduction in the
(20:32):
burnout.
Ned Renzi (20:32):
It's a productivity enhancer.
Dr. Monica Goldson (20:34):
Oh gosh, major productivity enhancer.
Recently I talked to a teacherwho said she had used it.
She creates her own classroomassessments, like most teachers
do, but she decided to put hertool in an AI tool just to look
at assessment bias, and she wassurprised at the change in the
(20:59):
assessment items that she neededto make based on the items that
she created.
And it was interesting for herbecause, while she was happy to
share it, you know, she justthought back to how many
assessment items and tools sheprovided that kind of were not
that she did not have theopportunity to put in this tool
(21:23):
that she administered tostudents and gave a final grade
to.
So that's just a few of theitems.
I think we're just on thebeginning of all the things that
AI can do, and so you couldtell I'm a lover of everything
AI, of all things AI.
Monica Enand (21:45):
Wow.
I mean I think we're startingto definitely learn here.
What has contributed to yoursuccess and I definitely think
it's a growth mindset andability to kind of deal with
changes and new technologies andembrace them and figure out how
to harness them for good andthe best.
I imagine that over thosedecades you've got to have seen
a lot of change.
Can you talk to us about whatthe biggest changes have been in
(22:09):
the last three decades and kindof where you see education
heading?
Dr. Monica Goldson (22:13):
Okay, I'm going to start with the biggest
because there's so many.
But I'm going to start with thebiggest and it really is the
integration of technology.
And remember earlier I said hadit not been for the pandemic,
we would not have been able tomove our district forward as
fast as we did, and that thetechnology piece was really the
(22:34):
tool that helped to move us.
We had talked about becoming aone-to-one school district.
Honestly, it would have takenus probably five to six years
because we were going to do thiswhole kindergarten step process
, walking through the soul, andthen we just ripped the Band-Aid
(22:55):
off and became a one-to-oneschool district.
What does it mean one-to-one?
Monica Enand (22:58):
school district.
Dr. Monica Goldson (22:58):
So one-to-one means that every
child has a technology device intheir possession every day,
issued by the school, issued bythe school district.
So that's over the last coupleof decades.
That's a major change intrajectory than what you've seen
before.
So technology integration isone the shift towards
(23:21):
student-centered learning wherethe teacher is the facilitator
and the student is moreparticipatory, has more
opportunity to express theirthoughts, to explore, to move
away from the lesson plan.
So if just by chance you bringup a topic that wasn't on the
lesson plan, the teacher feelscomfortable say you know what,
(23:44):
let's explore that topic.
I know that wasn't in my lesson, but let's explore it and see
where it takes us.
So more of a student-centeredapproach.
We definitely have moved toholistic education where we are
very concerned about the mentalhealth and awareness of our
students and staff staff.
(24:07):
Very much around equity andinclusion, and I know those are
sometimes the buzzwords, but ineducation that's more around
closing the achievement gap forsubgroups that typically are
marginalized based on, you know,probably their zip code or
(24:27):
social economic background.
And you know there was a lot ofconversation around STEM and
now there's more conversationaround STEAM and that was just
the addition of arts intoscience, technology, engineering
and mathematics.
And then lastly, which is a bigpiece of this, now moving from
(24:48):
vocational education to what wecall now career and technical
education, and I love to alwaysinform the community.
It's not the same.
It wasn't just a change in name, it really isn't a change in
the way our students learn.
You know, when you take yourcar to a car dealership to
(25:09):
figure out what's going on, theydon't get underneath, they
don't roll and get underneaththe hood, they actually connect
it to a computer, teaching ourstudents to use the tools that
they have to still deliver inthose fields that we typically
would look at as vocational ed.
(25:33):
In terms of the direction we'regoing, I think all of those
items I've discussed are alwaysin the forefront of
superintendents' minds today,right now, as we're moving
forward.
But just like times change, soshould education, and shame on
us if it doesn't, and you knowit's.
It's unfortunate that sometimesI will do a site visit and I
(25:56):
will go in a classroom and thechairs are still in a row.
The teacher's desk is in thefront.
What I'm looking for is thatteaching looks different.
It's even better when thefurniture looks different and
their couches and tables andchairs and kids are in groups.
But we have to change with thetimes and I think that is where
we're headed in public education.
Ned Renzi (26:18):
A lot of our conversations kind of at this
local level.
I'm really curious, you know,like when I talk to my brother,
my dad, so much is influenced,you know, for them far away in
Washington, right, and theDepartment of Ed throws this
money out, they have stringsattached to it which local
people may or may not agree with.
(26:39):
You know, as I researched it, Ididn't even know we didn't have
a Department of Ed until the70s with the Carter
administration, and educationwas pretty fine without federal
direction in education, right.
I mean we were a leader in theworld, right.
So I'm just curious now, likeat a high level, your view
Department of Ed net positive,net negative.
(26:59):
If you were ran the Departmentof Ed, what top two or three
changes would you recommend?
Dr. Monica Goldson (27:13):
Yeah, so the US Department of Ed.
You're right, it has beeninteresting over the past couple
of decades what their role isand there have been times that,
depending on administrationsyou're right, I'm not too far
from Washington DC and so I havethe privilege of hearing that
news every day Whether it was noChild Left Behind, you name it
(27:34):
there have been mandates thatcome down and then that drives
what comes out of the Departmentof Education.
If there's anything that Icould change is that, while I
understand that the Departmentof Ed is supposed to be
bipartisan I understand that'swhat it's supposed to be but to
be more of a department thatserves as technical assistance
(27:58):
to state and local educationagencies.
I know that when you look at itlike let's go back to AI as a
great example, they've issuedguidance around AI.
Hey, states and districtsembrace it.
You know these are the thingsthat you could.
It would be as a great benefit.
It doesn't tell you you have touse it.
(28:18):
It serves as a tool and iswilling to come out to states
and districts to talk about whatthey need to do to create
policies around supporting.
So if they really should focuson ways to make sure that they
serve as that a resource and aguide.
I think where it gets muddy isthat you have a US Department of
(28:40):
Ed and you do.
You have these nationalpolitics and then, as your
brother can canest to, he hashis own local politics and the
local politics will trump thatfederal one all day long.
Ned Renzi (28:55):
He's squeezed in that all the time.
You nailed it.
Dr. Monica Goldson (28:57):
All day long .
So if they can serve as thatassistance in helping to
navigate it, then makes thatsuperintendent's role better
instead of having to answer toyour local and then still having
to answer to your federal.
You know, there are some statesthat will not accept the
federal funding because theydon't wanna adhere to the
(29:20):
federal requirements.
There are other states thathave no choice because they need
the federal funding to help toclose their financial gap and I
hate that.
That is where we are as acountry.
So if I could change it, itwould really be around focusing
on being a support instead ofthe hand-me-down of you have to
(29:41):
do and in order to do it.
To do it is when you get thedollars.
Ned Renzi (29:47):
And if you don't do it you don't get it.
Dr. Monica Goldson (29:48):
If I could pin you down at the high level
Department of Ed, net positiveor net negative to these school
districts around the country, Ithink it's a net positive
Anytime you have someone else inthe arena in public education
who can provide support on anylevel, who can provide support
on any level I gave one exampleon AI and they have helped in
assistance around literacy Thenit's always again a net positive
(30:18):
.
Ned Renzi (30:18):
The Dr Gold said I know you're involved with a few
startup companies, including theone where you and I got to work
together on and meet.
You know there's some newtechnologies in addition to AI,
a lot of interesting startups.
Are there any particularcompanies or technologies you're
excited about?
Dr. Monica Goldson (30:35):
Yeah, I'm very excited about those
companies that are able to usetechnology to support students
not only during the school daybut beyond the school day.
So for the previous schooldistrict that I served, 68% of
our students were onframe-reduced meals and so very
much needed support in theevenings with tutoring.
(30:59):
So I loved opportunities forstudents to have that support in
the afternoon or evening tohelp them navigate the work that
they needed to do on their owntime.
Because I come from a communitywhere sometimes students would
leave school, go to work andthen come home and so that
having those opportunities thatare not necessarily in a
confined time to get support itmight be 11 pm when they need
(31:23):
support and having the abilityto do that.
Looking at the elementary level,very intrigued by getting
community members to help withthe execution of learning for
our youngest children, and sowas intrigued by companies that
did small things by gettingcommunity members to read to
(31:45):
students virtually During thesummer and during the school
year we know the value ofreading to early learners and
for a community such as mine,where many of our students were
EL students whose parents didnot speak English, that was not
their first language and we weretrying to find a way to help
(32:06):
our students.
So looking for tools thatallowed us to kind of close that
gap, so very intrigued withlooking at technology tools that
kind of help to bridge theschool home connection, what do
you think the best strategiesthat are in place to ensure the
equitable distribution ofresources?
Monica Enand (32:25):
So technology, experienced teachers,
extracurricular activitiesacross the schools and we know
there's very differentexperiences in economically
diverse areas.
Dr. Monica Goldson (32:38):
First, you've got to do an assessment
of where you are as a schooldistrict period, and that's what
we did.
We knew that, okay, we wereheavy on computer labs and
laptops at the high school level, not so much at the elementary
and middle school level, and youtruly have to know where you're
(32:59):
trying to move your district.
So the pandemic was a greatexample.
It shifted everything to onlineexperiences and I can remember
going out with the countyexecutive to plead to parents.
I need we needed 90,000 devices.
Ned Renzi (33:17):
That's massive.
That's like bigger than 90% ofcompanies out there.
Dr. Monica Goldson (33:21):
Exactly Because we were going to do
something different for K1 and 2.
But we needed 90,000 devices.
I was 15,000 devices short.
I am in the community on thenews pleading to parents please
let children use your workdevice.
I'm asking employers, please.
We're short, 15,000.
This is before we had anyfederal funding to support um
(33:45):
the pandemic.
And I realized then likesomething has to give.
This is crazy.
Like first of all we're we'refault, because we should have
been prepared for this.
We weren't um, and that was thebeginning of it.
Then the next issue was so what?
You got an advice now they needinternet, so they need wi so if
you're talking about equitabledistribution of resources, you
(34:10):
also have to tackle somecommunity infrastructure issues.
So we then I was in constantcommunication with our county
government around theircommunities where they don't
even have wifi access.
They're constantly dropping.
So what are we going to doabout that?
I had to reach out to cablecompany to buy hotspots and then
(34:32):
deliver those hotspots to thosecommunities.
So it then became a wholecommunity experience.
So that's why I say, to reallylook at what that equitable
distribution is, you do needsome key players at the table.
It can't just be the schooldistrict alone.
We had to have a parentcommunity meeting in three
different parts of our county totalk about hey, this isn't a
(34:56):
problem in one part of thecommunity, because that
technology device is theirlifeline.
It allows their parents to paybills, it allows their child to
pay bills, it allows their childto get tutoring, it allows them
to get one-on-one support.
We even were able to contractwith a company that did mental
health supports throughtechnology, through the computer
(35:18):
device.
So there were students who weregetting one-on-one counseling
at home through the device,whereas other communities were
like, hey, can you just keep thedevice?
Whereas I had other communitieswere like, hey, can you just
keep the device at school,because when we get home we
don't want them to have thedevice when they get home.
And I literally had to informour community.
We're talking, we got twodifferent communities we're
dealing with here and so we'regoing to need your help, because
(35:40):
now we're getting ready to gointo the haves and have nots.
So in those homes where theydidn't want it, their kids had
exposure to technology devicesall the time without us even
giving it to them.
They already had computers, andso we really had to have a
(36:00):
compromise on meeting otherminds, and so we then started to
limit the amount of times thatpre-KK one and two spent on
technology devices, but allowparents to make the choice at
those levels of whether theywanted the device to come home
every day or not period, becausethe parent might need to use
(36:22):
the device themselves.
You've got to understand yourcommunity, you've got to know
where the gaps are and thenyou've got to come up with tools
to help them to close that gap.
If I had said we're only goingto let kids use that device
during the school day, I wouldhave created a major problem for
students who needed thatsupport in the evening and
parents who now are relying onthe tools that we provided to
(36:45):
kids to be their lifeline backto a school building.
Ned Renzi (36:49):
I know, when I work with CEOs, we have the saying
that says, meet them where theyare and it sounds like that's
what you're doing for yourcommunity.
And some people in the samecommunity are just in different
places and you kind of meet themwhere they are and just start
from there and meet them wherethey are and just start from
there.
Monica Enand (37:10):
Related to that topic, I noticed that this year
school just started here and Inoticed that this year one of
the high schools has the kidsmagnetic.
They have these magneticholders that they put their
phone, their watch if they haveone.
They put their AirPods orwhatever in the magnetic lockers
or magnetic holders in themorning and then they don't get
(37:31):
it unlocked until the what arelike?
What do you think about that?
You know?
Dr. Monica Goldson (37:35):
interesting.
You bring it this next to AI.
This is the second most.
This is the second mostimportant conversation that's
happening now between students,teachers, parents and district
leaders.
And so and interesting just hadthis conversation yesterday as
a state board member with someother state board members and it
really does vary.
(37:56):
I think you've got to know yourcommunity districts where the
parents are like don't you daretell me what to do with my, with
the cell phone I purchased formy child.
Then we have other communitieswhere they're like, oh my gosh,
(38:19):
I they need it, like please lockit up.
Um, and I think me I try tobring to a multiple lens.
I was a parent, I was a districtparent, so I can get.
I understand the parentswanting to have contact with
their kid all day.
You know, now in this day andtime with school shootings, it
(38:40):
causes parents to then want tostill communicate with their
kids.
So it's a very difficultconversation to have with
parents because if you watch thenews, there were parents who
were like I was talking to mychild when it was happening.
So they don't want to lose thatlifeline For educators.
They will tell you please takeit, but they don't want to be
(39:03):
the manager of the taking of it.
It's an interestingconversation and so I say all
that to say one you've got toknow your community.
I think this is the time tobegin to have those
conversations, to provide theresearch around the advantages
of locking up the cell phone atthe beginning of the school day
(39:25):
and getting it at the end,having resources and strategies
on how you're going to resolvethe issue with the parent who
wants to get to their childright then.
And there's no problem inpiloting.
So there's nothing wrong withchoosing one or two or three
schools out of a district topilot it first, to work out the
(39:46):
kinks, to use them, theirparents, their students,
teachers and staff to be theones who help to sell it to
everyone else.
Everything doesn't have tohappen immediately, right now,
but I do think we are on thebeginning of school districts
looking at limiting the amountof time students are on cell
(40:08):
phones.
Now let me just say this onemore thing really quick.
There was a time when I firststarted as a principal where we
were allowing students to havetheir cell phone because they
were using it in the classroomto look up a word like help them
.
Now, with so many districts,having technological devices in
(40:29):
the classroom for students touse.
You now can have thatconversation around.
You don't necessarily need thecell phone because there's an
iPad or desktop or a laptopright there for them to quickly
access.
So I think you're going to finda conversation.
It's going to vary by community.
What we don't want, what we'rehoping, is that our elected
(40:50):
officials won't go into thelegislature, coming up and
decide to ban without havingthese kinds of conversations and
ramming down the throats of ourcommunity members.
Ned Renzi (41:00):
We've covered quite a bit of ground on, you know,
education, on philosophies, ontechnology, what's working,
what's not.
I love this quote from a sci-fiauthor who says the future's
already here.
It's just not evenlydistributed and I feel like
you're on the front end of a lotof these different waves.
(41:22):
And so if you put your hat onand say, hey, it's 2034, 10
years from now, and theindustry's evolved according to
your vision or what you'reseeing at the edge right now,
what do you think K-12 educationlooks like 10 years from now?
Dr. Monica Goldson (41:39):
I think we won't be talking about AI.
There'll be something else newand shiny.
If you recall, we used to freakout over the calculator.
Now no one freaks out aboutthat anymore, so it's very
similar.
I think 10 years from nowthey'll be like AI.
There'll be something else newand shiny.
I think what you will findbecause we are in a major
teacher shortage.
So I think what you will findis that students might be
(42:03):
learning from a teacher in awhole nother state and they
might be in a diverse classroomwith students from their state
and another state, and a teachermight have 50 students and very
similar to sometimes what acollege classroom looks like.
I think you may find that atthe secondary level, I think
you're going to find flexiblescheduling for students.
(42:26):
I think right now there aresome places where they are
really looking at students whostart maybe at noon and go later
in the day because they havefamily obligations that they
have to support in the morning.
You have some who and it's verytypical for seniors, but at an
earlier age than seniors wherethey can start during the day,
(42:48):
do a half a day and maybe work.
You're seeing an increase ofstudents who are doing dual
enrollment and are able to earntheir high school diploma and
their associate's degree at thesame time.
I think you're going to find alot more of that, and what I'm
hoping you will find is adifferent post-secondary
(43:09):
experience than the traditionalcollege university experience
that many of our students aredoing right now, that many of
our students are doing right now.
I'm hoping that by 2034, ouruniversities will look different
(43:30):
because, for sure, our K-12 isstarting to move in that
direction.
Ned Renzi (43:32):
Yeah, look, I hope you're right.
If it's okay, I want to doubleclick on one of the things you
said at the beginning of yourvision, and this is the idea of,
you know, one teacher teachingmore students Right.
And so, if I look at otherindustries, if you're in the
music business, you know 100years ago you could only sing to
people you know in your venue,right.
(43:56):
And then you have radio music,albums, whatever to today, where
you have Taylor Swift and it'sdriven by power laws, right.
One person's making a billiondollars, and you can say that
about LeBron James in basketballor like any of these other
industries.
And so, like, what I'm sayingis like in these other
industries, technology allowsthe top 1% to sort of broadcast
(44:20):
to many, and my view is myexperience with teachers too is
there's a lot of good teachers,there's a handful of bad
teachers, but there's also ahandful of just truly great
teachers, and right now, thosetruly great teachers only reach
20 to 30 kids at a time.
And, like, how do you get thosetruly great ones, the 1% of the
(44:42):
1%, to reach a hundred millionkids or a hundred thousand kids,
or something like how?
How does that happen?
Dr. Monica Goldson (44:50):
You know, first it starts with um
highlighting that you have someamazing teachers right there in
front of you and then being,just what you say creative about
how to get them to serve thelesson to thousands.
And when you said it I smiledbecause I thought back during
the pandemic we weren't planningto purchase any technology for
(45:11):
K1 and 2.
But what we did have at ourdisposal was something this old
thing called a television, andwe had a public television
station.
And so we reached out to all ofour principals to say do you
have an amazing K-1 or 2 teacher?
They sent us names.
Our content specialist said ohmy gosh, yes, I've been there.
This person is amazing.
(45:32):
We paid them extra to teach alesson that was then televised
on our public television stationfor K1 and 2 in four core
content areas.
We published a schedule andparents could cut on the TV and
their kids would sit and do thelesson.
We even had packets ofmaterials that parents would run
(45:56):
by the school one day a week topick up.
That would support the lessonsthat the teacher taught.
That was through a publictelevision station.
The same thing can happen now.
It could be instead of thatpublic television station.
It can be through a computer, adevice, and so we just have to
move away from the traditionalmode.
(46:18):
We just have to move away fromthe traditional mode, and you're
right, getting the top tier andgetting down to a community of
folks who need it.
And when you think about it forthe pandemic, there were
parents who were like, oh mygosh, this is the best thing out
, and the lessons ran multipletimes.
I mean, we even did PE on TVfor pre-KK in one and two.
(46:40):
So it's possible, ned.
We just have to get out of ourway and sometimes getting out of
our way means we also have tohave conversations with our
union leaders that there are agroup of people educators who
want to work beyond thetraditional work hours and who
want the extra pay to do it.
Ned Renzi (46:58):
Well, tell you what if you start that company, I
will fund you.
Monica Enand (47:02):
Well, thank you, nick.
Thank you, thank you.
Well, if you start any company,I would be interested in
funding you.
But you know, as I listened toyou and I was thinking about
this episode being verydifferent than most of the
episodes, because we talked tomostly, like business leaders,
tech companies, founders and Iwas thinking, oh, education, I
(47:23):
wonder how this is going toapply.
But I'm sitting here listeningand I'm thinking your leadership
approach and the kinds of waysthat you have to lead large
groups of people it's a lot ofthe same.
It's a lot the same.
It's a lot of.
I hear you talk about listeningto different stakeholders,
(47:44):
creating empathy with yourstakeholders for other
stakeholders, making sureeverybody understands each other
.
Like, do you?
You know, we've frequentlytalked about kind of leadership
frameworks or how leaders thinkabout.
Do you have any frameworks thatyou use or sort of principles
that you use to help you in yourleadership practice that you
could share?
(48:05):
Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Monica Goldson (48:06):
I very much am aligned with the servant
leadership model.
I did look at education as abusiness.
I mean, like I said, I led a$2.4 billion corporation in my
mind and I also made investmentsto support me as a leader.
So I had an executive coach andI had a coach that was not in
(48:28):
education, because I needed thatcoach to look at it from a
different lens.
You know it's what pushed me tobe a better leader.
Ned said at the beginning I had19,000 employees If you count
substitutes, 20,000 employees,and I was always trying to find
ways that I could get to themand I always wanted to make sure
(48:51):
that they felt like they couldget to me.
Harvard does some researcharound the messy middle.
If you can't move the middle ofyour organization, you're never
going to move that organization.
And I really spent a lot oftime focused on the messy middle
, the top that we're going tomeet every.
We met every Tuesday, the coreof the classroom.
(49:12):
I spent time in the classroom,that's that's.
That was the crux, the core ofour work.
We can't do anything if we'renot supporting that core.
And I think for any leader, forany company, when you know what
that core is, then you'retrying to figure out how
everyone can support that core.
That is very well said.
Ned Renzi (49:28):
I think I could talk for two days on this topic.
I'm like to me, it's the futureof the country.
Right, and you know, sometimesI think we do a decent job
preparing the next generation Alot of areas.
I think we do a greatdisservice to the next
generation in terms of justpreparing them to be adults and
contributors to society.
I think if we have more peoplelike Dr Goldson, we'd be much
(49:50):
better off as a country for thefuture.
Dr. Monica Goldson (49:53):
I sure hope so.
I'm trying to raise two to bebetter.
That I'm raising to be betterfor the country, and I sure hope
there's some'm trying to raisetwo to be better that I'm
raising to be better for thecountry, and I sure hope there's
some other folks who are tryingto do the same you are a great
inspiration to many.
Monica Enand (50:03):
So thank you so much for spreading your
inspirational story larger,wider, hopefully reaching people
that have not met you or don'tget the joy of, like Ned, of
being on a board with you orknowing you and your work.
But I really appreciate youspending time with us today and
I look forward to all the coolnew things you do in this next
(50:25):
chapter and I look forward toour continued partnership,
wherever that may lead us.
Dr. Monica Goldson (50:31):
Thank you for the opportunity.
I truly appreciate it.
Monica Enand (50:34):
And this has been another episode of Master Stroke
.
Thank you so much to Sejal andto Ned, and thank you, dr Monica
Goldson, and I wanted to alsothank our executive producer,
georgiana Moreland thank you forlistening today.
Georgianna Moreland (50:47):
We would love for you to follow and
subscribe.
Monica and Sejal would love tohear from you.
You can text us directly fromthe link in the show notes of
this episode.
You can also find us on theLinkedIn page at Masterstroke
Podcast with Monica Enid andSejo Petrzak.
Until next time.
I did look at education as a business.
I led a $2.4 billioncorporation Next to AI.
This is the second mostimportant conversation that's
happening now between students,teachers, and welcome to our
special guest host, ned Renzi.
Georgianna Morela (00:26):
Conversations with founders, ceos and
visionary leaders in technologyand beyond.
Monica Enand (00:39):
Welcome to Masterstroke.
We have a very exciting episodetoday and we I don't know if
everyone can handle it, but wehave not one, but two Monicas on
the show today.
Me, of course.
It's going to be an amazing day.
Yes, Me, of course, and DrMonica Goldson.
And I'm joined today again bymy guest host, Ned Renzi.
(01:02):
Thank you for being here, Ned.
Ned Renzi (01:03):
Thanks, Monica.
Monica Enand (01:04):
And I will let Ned introduce his colleague Dr
Goldson.
Ned Renzi (01:08):
Yeah, so Dr Monica Goldson welcome.
So Dr Goldson's the retiredchief executive officer of
Prince George's County PublicSchools, which is one of the
nation's largest immerseddiverse school districts.
Let me know if I get thesestats right, but I think you
served over 130,000 studentsacross 200 schools and like
(01:30):
19,000 staff members, so quite alarge organization.
And today you're now the CEO ofEdExec Leadership Group, which
is a leadership and developmentexecutive coaching firm where
you focus on helping educationalleaders and organizations
maximize their potential.
Dr. Monica Goldson (01:49):
Ned, you got it correct and the stats are
accurate.
Ned Renzi (01:52):
I passed the test.
Dr. Monica Goldson (01:53):
All right, yes, from a former mathematician
, you did it.
Ned Renzi (01:58):
Nice.
Monica Enand (01:59):
All right.
Well, we're so glad you're here.
Education is such an importanttopic for us to discuss,
especially in this disruptivetime that we're living in.
But you spent 32 years in thePrince George's County public
school system, and this is oneof the top 20%.
It's in the top 20% of thelargest districts in the nation.
(02:21):
Well, first of all,congratulations on your
retirement.
We look way too young to havethe word retirement associated
with you, and so I know you'redoing some exciting things now.
Thank you for that.
But what I really want to knowis 32 years in the school
district ending your career notending, I guess, but culminating
your career with a CEO, beingthe CEO of Prince George County.
(02:43):
Tell us a little bit about thatcareer journey, like how did
you end up as the CEO?
Dr. Monica Goldson (02:47):
Yeah, actually it was not something I
was seeking to do, as mostthings, it just happened.
I have an amazing.
I had an amazing career in thesame school district I had the
opportunity to grow up in, whichis very rare, yeah, so I went
to elementary, middle and highschool in my same school
(03:08):
district.
Now, was that ever planned?
No, I'm an only child.
When I graduated from highschool, I wanted to get as far
away as possible, so I went toFlorida A&M University and I
went to major in actuary science, had no desire to go into
education, even though I comefrom a long line of educators.
What people know aboutactuaries is that you have to
(03:31):
take 10 mathematics exams to bea certified actuary, and I
figured, you know what?
Maybe I'll just teach amathematics class while I'm
preparing for the first threeactuary exams and then, by the
time you get two or three underyour belt, typically insurance
companies will pay for you tocome on and work for them and
allow you to study during theworkday and work at the same
(03:52):
time.
So that was really my plan.
Yeah, clearly I was not incontrol of that plan.
I went to my former high schoolprincipal, hired me to teach at
another high school.
He was at a different highschool mathematics and after the
first week of school I knewthat I was destined to remain in
education.
Wow, so that's how I started.
(04:16):
I worked my way up.
I was a mathematics teacher, aninstructional specialist, who
helped middle and high schoolmath teachers throughout the
district.
I became an assistant principal, a principal so a principal of
two high schools opened a newone, had one that was
overcrowded and the districtbuilt a new one, opened that one
(04:36):
and then became a chief ofoperations, associate
superintendent over high schools.
And then one day thesuperintendent comes in in July
and says hey, monica, I'm outand the board wants to see you.
Well, first of all, whensomeone says that, that's
normally not a good sign thatthe board wants to see you, and
(04:59):
anyone who knows anything abouteducation, you can pull up an
article right now, today, aboutsome board up to some
shenanigans and.
But there are some boards aredoing amazing things, but there
are some who are not.
And I went down to the boardoffice thinking, oh gosh, what
is this?
And they said, hey, look, wewould love for you to be an
interim CEO superintendent.
And I did think about it.
(05:21):
I went home to talk to my twochildren, and I did think about
it.
I went home to talk to my twochildren.
I have two young men now.
One was still in high school inPrince George's County and the
other one was in college, and soserving in that role meant that
his life could potentiallychange.
A high school student whose momis the superintendent is not
always fun, but he encouraged meto go ahead and do it, and so I
(05:44):
went back and said, yeah, I'lldo it.
And so I was interned for ayear and then was got the
permanent job and wassuperintendent for five years,
of which, let me be clear, feltlike dog years because it was
also during the pandemic.
Monica Enand (05:58):
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Monica Goldson (05:59):
So exactly.
But you know, I have a saying,and it's actually on a sign,
someone gave it to me.
It says never let a good crisisgo to waste.
That's exactly what I, alongwith the executive team, did.
(06:20):
We were able to move thedistrict in a different
direction that I firmly believewe would never have been able to
do had we not been in apandemic.
Monica Enand (06:31):
Okay Well, we want to explore that more, for sure,
but I have a couple ofreactions to what you just said.
First of all, I think actuariesare boring, and you are way not
boring.
So there's no way you aredestined to be an actuary.
That sounds way too boring foryou, exactly, but I thought I
could do it.
Oh, I'm sure you can.
I'm sure you can.
Yeah, it just never happened,right.
(06:51):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt in yourability, I just yeah.
When we started the show,georgiana Moreland and Sejal and
I talked about like how we weregoing to name the show, and we
named it it's called MasterStroke and Georgiana came up
with that name and she said weSejal said like what, what is
Master Stroke?
And she, georgiana, explainedthat like, there are these
(07:13):
moments in life where you make achoice that you know obviously
you would have ended up doingsomething amazing.
You know, I'm convinced thatthere are these moments in time
where you make decisions andthose little decisions really
lead to something.
Dr. Monica Goldson (07:28):
I think so too.
You're right.
Nothing just happens.
You're right Hard work,perseverance.
You know I will say I wasn'tseeking the CEO position.
Monica Enand (07:37):
Yes, ok.
Dr. Monica Goldson (07:39):
So that's why I say it just happens.
But you know, I think whenyou're shifting from one one
position to the next, I thinkthat's always when you're making
a different move or stroke intoa different direction.
And, um, I can remember I was ahigh school principal.
It just opened a school.
I'd said to the superintendent,he came in, he would always
(08:01):
come to visit and I would say,hey, please don't touch me for
five years, let me get thisplace up and running.
He said OK, and ran out andleft out the door, you know like
, went on and visit someclassrooms or whatever.
But something happened in thedistrict.
So I wrote a really quick onepage white paper on why I
(08:23):
thought the decision he made wasnot the best decision.
And the next thing I knew hecalled and he said hey, would
you love to have the associatesuperintendent job over high
school?
I was like, are you crazy?
No, I was really just trying tolet you know that I did not
agree with what just happenedand these are the reasons why.
And he said well, actually thatis why we would need you to
lead, because we need to hearthe voice from the field,
someone who's not concerned,scared to say something to the
(08:47):
leader who's trying to make theright decision, or at least the
best decision for children, andI think that was what caused me
to pivot from being in theschoolhouse to the executive
roles that I continue to acquireright after that, dr Goldson, I
think I may have mentioned inone of our conversations where
(09:09):
we sit on the board.
Ned Renzi (09:09):
I'm the only non-public school teacher in my
family.
My dad was a high schoolprincipal.
My brother is now asuperintendent getting ready to
retire.
Monica and I have interviewed alot of I'll say just captains
of industry and people who havedone things where they report to
a board of directors that aresort of handpicked or they opt
(09:30):
in through an investment orwhatever.
And something that always, like, either fascinated me or
puzzled me about education isyou take people as accomplished
as yourself and you report to aboard of directors who have no
experience in your industry, notraining, no idea how to educate
(09:50):
kids, but they get put in thisrole where they're, they're your
boss.
They get on the board becausethey have a kid who has one
special interest and they thinkthe whole world revolves around
that kid.
Dr. Monica Goldson (10:00):
You know around that one thing and
they're and they're a dog with abone and not letting it go.
Ned Renzi (10:10):
How did you adapt to and deal with a situation like
that?
Dr. Monica Goldson (10:14):
First of all , ned, every superintendent
around the country now wants tocome and hug you because you're
right, that is exactly whatsuperintendents are experiencing
.
That is exactly whatsuperintendents are experiencing
and you know it's you go atfirst of all.
You go into it believing thatevery board member wants the
same thing you do, and that isto provide the best educational
(10:36):
experience possible for children.
What, unfortunately, you cometo find out is that that's not
always the case, and you know,over time, you get to a point
where you realize that theirpersonal agendas are now
hampering your ability to leadand to move a district forward.
(10:57):
And so, in my situation, I hada unique case where I have 14
board members.
In my situation, I had a uniquecase where I have 14 board
members.
That's larger than LA Unified.
That's the largest schooldistrict in the country.
I have 14 school board members.
Half were elected, half wereappointed because the county
(11:19):
executive, which is very similarto a mayor, wanted to try to do
exactly what you said Bring onprofessionals who could serve as
my thought partners.
Hold me accountable, ask mequestions, because I led a $2.4
billion budget.
Billion.
Ned Renzi (11:37):
Wow.
Dr. Monica Goldson (11:38):
And so I needed a variety of members on
that board who had expertise inlots of areas.
Under my leadership, I was ableto bring on a public-private
partnership where we built atotal of now 14 new school
buildings.
So that meant I really neededsomeone who had a business
acumen, who understoodconstruction and who had a true
(12:01):
sense of financing.
You're not always going to getthat with elected officials.
You're getting someone who says, hey, I just want to be a
school board member, who mightjust want to be a school board
member because they eventuallywant to be a county council
member or delegate and they'reusing this as a stepping stone
and an outlet to get there.
And I think you will findacross the country why there
(12:22):
probably is a revolving door inpublic education right now for
superintendents.
It is difficult, I will say inmy five-year tenure you do end
up spending a lot of timetalking to board members.
I spent individual.
I had to meet with peopleindividually.
Then I prepare for boardmeetings in advance.
So of course I'm looking atagenda items, I'm calling before
(12:42):
we get to the meeting Do youhave any questions?
So I'm not blindsided on what Ithink the potential vote may be
.
And then, when you get to apoint where you realize that
everyone is not rowing in thesame direction, you then, as a
leader, have to make a decisionon whether it's time for you to
depart or not.
And when it came time for me Iwas ready for contract renewal I
(13:05):
made a decision that noteveryone on the board wanted to
roll in the same direction.
I wanted to go in and I wasvery honest with the public on
why I was leaving and I made itclear that it was the board.
But I did that not necessarilyto upset them because, hey, I
was leaving, it didn't matter tome.
I did it with the hope thatthey would change their actions
(13:28):
and it would wake up ourcommunity to pay attention to
what was happening in publiceducation.
Do I think I accomplished that?
Probably, maybe about 40% ofthe time it works 40%.
Ned Renzi (13:42):
If you gave me an over under on betting, I would
have bet under 40%.
Dr. Monica Goldson (13:53):
This is the one thing I can tell you about
really great leaders.
You have to know when it istime for you to go.
And.
I think that is a verydifficult decision for CEOs of
companies, profit, nonprofit andleaders in K-12 public
education.
(14:14):
You just cannot get soself-absorbed to think that you
are the end all to be all, that.
There is someone who's going tocome in who can do better and
greater, and why wouldn't youwant them to?
Monica Enand (14:24):
there is someone who's going to come in, who can
do better and greater, and whywouldn't you want them to?
Well, that takes a lot ofmaturity, ego maturity, I think.
I mean you know, ned, and Ihave talked about ego all the
time.
Of course we all have egos, butI think what you're talking
about is a really evolved senseof self and sense of like what
your mission is and how, whatyour role in the mission is.
So I really applaud you forsaying that, because I think
(14:48):
it's an incredibly hard thing.
It's easy to say and thinkabout and it sounds right, but
when people actually do it, it'sincredibly difficult for them
to do.
Dr. Monica Goldson (14:57):
It is very difficult.
I don't want anyone to thinkthat you could just wake up one
morning and be like, hey, Ithink it's time for me to go,
that you could just wake up onemorning and be like, hey, I
think it's time for me to go.
It took me a year for me tovocalize what it is I want that.
Hey, it was time for me topivot.
So lots of times people arelike, oh, you're retired.
(15:19):
Oh, my God, you're too young toretire.
Monica, you even said it and Iconsider it repurposed.
Before I could even get out ofthe door, the governor from
Maryland called and said hey,Monica, could you be on the
State Board of Education inMaryland?
And I said, hey, sure, it's avolunteer position.
Little did I know.
Now I am the vice president ofthat state board, and so and I
(15:41):
get, and I have an opportunitynow to coach other
superintendents across thedistrict along with their
executive staff.
I have the pleasure of sittingon other boards for corporations
that are trying to make adifference in the lives of
students.
And so you make that toughdecision, but it's a decision.
I think that if you can arrivethere and understand that, it's
(16:05):
what's you're making the bestdecision for everyone, yourself
and the organization that youlead, I think you'll find you'll
come out even better on theother side.
Ned Renzi (16:13):
Yeah, dr Goldson, if it's OK, I'd like to maybe take
the conversation a littledifferent direction.
And you know, sort of, for me,one of the things I've been
passionate about as an investoris this intersection of
education and technology, sosort of.
I have an engineeringbackground, but I come from this
family of teachers and so youknow, the hottest thing right
now is obviously artificialintelligence and gen AI, right,
(16:35):
and so you know, you know, whenyou sort of look at this, there
are sort of two parts to it One,how do you think AI can help
students learn more effectively?
And two, how can AI be used tohelp teachers and schools be
more effective?
Dr. Monica Goldson (16:51):
Yeah, I think.
First, the very first thing isthat we have to acknowledge that
there are many students who areusing AI right now period.
So for those school districtswho have turned it off, don't
allow access, have put up afirewall.
You're only hindering theirability to access it during the
day Because more than likely,they're accessing it.
Ned Renzi (17:14):
They're doing it at home, right?
Dr. Monica Goldson (17:17):
Or if they have a cell phone, they're using
it on their cell phone, usingit on their cell phone.
What I, in my conversationswith students and then I'll talk
about the advantages ofstudents and teachers is I
always say to them especiallyfor leaders who represent
diverse districts, such as theone I had is that when you cut
(17:37):
it off, when you cut off aartificial intelligence, what
you're now doing is settingthose kids up to be behind their
peers, and what you don't wantto do is do that because of your
fear of what AI could do.
I had the opportunity to hearsome students talk about AI and
the benefits of what it is, whatit does for them, and the very
(17:58):
first thing that they all talkedabout was is that they use it.
One to give them an outline forwriting.
They don't use it.
Many of them talk hey, we don'tuse it to write our paper for
us, and if our teachers knew ourvoice when we turned in our
papers, they would know who wasusing AI completely and who was
(18:21):
not.
Many students talked aboutusing it for feedback immediate
feedback on their work, or ifthey got stuck in an area.
Um, there are.
Now.
Ai has the ability to evenassist in mathematics, so
helping them to problem solve orto dissect a word problem when
they're like look, the wordproblem is written, I don't even
(18:42):
understand it.
And some have used it as a toolto take the exact word problem,
put it in a tool to say, canyou just reword it so I can
understand it, reword it inlayman's terms, and then have
been able to solve it, and it'sallowed our students to have
creative learning experiences.
That I know as an educator, asa former teacher.
(19:03):
We sometimes get so stuck inwhat we've always done.
We don't come to the tablemeeting the needs of our
students with the creativitylevel that we should.
So that's just a few.
For teachers it's even greater.
So the tool first of all.
We've been talking a lot aboutteacher burnout after coming
(19:26):
back from the pandemic, and soif you want to start to address
teacher burnout, then you've gotto start to integrate AI into
the teacher educator experience.
You could start as simple ashelping them to draft
communications to parents.
To draft communications toparents, making sure that it's
in a tone and a language thatparents can receive, helping to
(19:50):
write creative lesson plans, andso you do, as an educator, have
to put in the standards orobjectives that you're trying to
accomplish.
You've got to put in someparameters.
So AI prompting is reallyimportant.
This is really just a toolthat's kind of directing you,
giving you some ideas.
You're going to still tweak it,you're still going to take that
(20:11):
.
But just imagine, as aneducator I used to spend every
Sunday planning for the entireweek.
If I had AI at my hand, myready set tool, it probably
would not have taken me all ofSunday, probably would have
taken me two hours versus eight.
And so that's where you canlook at the reduction in the
(20:32):
burnout.
Ned Renzi (20:32):
It's a productivity enhancer.
Dr. Monica Goldson (20:34):
Oh gosh, major productivity enhancer.
Recently I talked to a teacherwho said she had used it.
She creates her own classroomassessments, like most teachers
do, but she decided to put hertool in an AI tool just to look
at assessment bias, and she wassurprised at the change in the
(20:59):
assessment items that she neededto make based on the items that
she created.
And it was interesting for herbecause, while she was happy to
share it, you know, she justthought back to how many
assessment items and tools sheprovided that kind of were not
that she did not have theopportunity to put in this tool
(21:23):
that she administered tostudents and gave a final grade
to.
So that's just a few of theitems.
I think we're just on thebeginning of all the things that
AI can do, and so you couldtell I'm a lover of everything
AI, of all things AI.
Monica Enand (21:45):
Wow.
I mean I think we're startingto definitely learn here.
What has contributed to yoursuccess and I definitely think
it's a growth mindset andability to kind of deal with
changes and new technologies andembrace them and figure out how
to harness them for good andthe best.
I imagine that over thosedecades you've got to have seen
a lot of change.
Can you talk to us about whatthe biggest changes have been in
(22:09):
the last three decades and kindof where you see education
heading?
Dr. Monica Goldson (22:13):
Okay, I'm going to start with the biggest
because there's so many.
But I'm going to start with thebiggest and it really is the
integration of technology.
And remember earlier I said hadit not been for the pandemic,
we would not have been able tomove our district forward as
fast as we did, and that thetechnology piece was really the
(22:34):
tool that helped to move us.
We had talked about becoming aone-to-one school district.
Honestly, it would have takenus probably five to six years
because we were going to do thiswhole kindergarten step process
, walking through the soul, andthen we just ripped the Band-Aid
(22:55):
off and became a one-to-oneschool district.
What does it mean one-to-one?
Monica Enand (22:58):
school district.
Dr. Monica Goldson (22:58):
So one-to-one means that every
child has a technology device intheir possession every day,
issued by the school, issued bythe school district.
So that's over the last coupleof decades.
That's a major change intrajectory than what you've seen
before.
So technology integration isone the shift towards
(23:21):
student-centered learning wherethe teacher is the facilitator
and the student is moreparticipatory, has more
opportunity to express theirthoughts, to explore, to move
away from the lesson plan.
So if just by chance you bringup a topic that wasn't on the
lesson plan, the teacher feelscomfortable say you know what,
(23:44):
let's explore that topic.
I know that wasn't in my lesson, but let's explore it and see
where it takes us.
So more of a student-centeredapproach.
We definitely have moved toholistic education where we are
very concerned about the mentalhealth and awareness of our
students and staff staff.
(24:07):
Very much around equity andinclusion, and I know those are
sometimes the buzzwords, but ineducation that's more around
closing the achievement gap forsubgroups that typically are
marginalized based on, you know,probably their zip code or
(24:27):
social economic background.
And you know there was a lot ofconversation around STEM and
now there's more conversationaround STEAM and that was just
the addition of arts intoscience, technology, engineering
and mathematics.
And then lastly, which is a bigpiece of this, now moving from
(24:48):
vocational education to what wecall now career and technical
education, and I love to alwaysinform the community.
It's not the same.
It wasn't just a change in name, it really isn't a change in
the way our students learn.
You know, when you take yourcar to a car dealership to
(25:09):
figure out what's going on, theydon't get underneath, they
don't roll and get underneaththe hood, they actually connect
it to a computer, teaching ourstudents to use the tools that
they have to still deliver inthose fields that we typically
would look at as vocational ed.
(25:33):
In terms of the direction we'regoing, I think all of those
items I've discussed are alwaysin the forefront of
superintendents' minds today,right now, as we're moving
forward.
But just like times change, soshould education, and shame on
us if it doesn't, and you knowit's.
It's unfortunate that sometimesI will do a site visit and I
(25:56):
will go in a classroom and thechairs are still in a row.
The teacher's desk is in thefront.
What I'm looking for is thatteaching looks different.
It's even better when thefurniture looks different and
their couches and tables andchairs and kids are in groups.
But we have to change with thetimes and I think that is where
we're headed in public education.
Ned Renzi (26:18):
A lot of our conversations kind of at this
local level.
I'm really curious, you know,like when I talk to my brother,
my dad, so much is influenced,you know, for them far away in
Washington, right, and theDepartment of Ed throws this
money out, they have stringsattached to it which local
people may or may not agree with.
(26:39):
You know, as I researched it, Ididn't even know we didn't have
a Department of Ed until the70s with the Carter
administration, and educationwas pretty fine without federal
direction in education, right.
I mean we were a leader in theworld, right.
So I'm just curious now, likeat a high level, your view
Department of Ed net positive,net negative.
(26:59):
If you were ran the Departmentof Ed, what top two or three
changes would you recommend?
Dr. Monica Goldson (27:13):
Yeah, so the US Department of Ed.
You're right, it has beeninteresting over the past couple
of decades what their role isand there have been times that,
depending on administrationsyou're right, I'm not too far
from Washington DC and so I havethe privilege of hearing that
news every day Whether it was noChild Left Behind, you name it
(27:34):
there have been mandates thatcome down and then that drives
what comes out of the Departmentof Education.
If there's anything that Icould change is that, while I
understand that the Departmentof Ed is supposed to be
bipartisan I understand that'swhat it's supposed to be but to
be more of a department thatserves as technical assistance
(27:58):
to state and local educationagencies.
I know that when you look at itlike let's go back to AI as a
great example, they've issuedguidance around AI.
Hey, states and districtsembrace it.
You know these are the thingsthat you could.
It would be as a great benefit.
It doesn't tell you you have touse it.
(28:18):
It serves as a tool and iswilling to come out to states
and districts to talk about whatthey need to do to create
policies around supporting.
So if they really should focuson ways to make sure that they
serve as that a resource and aguide.
I think where it gets muddy isthat you have a US Department of
(28:40):
Ed and you do.
You have these nationalpolitics and then, as your
brother can canest to, he hashis own local politics and the
local politics will trump thatfederal one all day long.
Ned Renzi (28:55):
He's squeezed in that all the time.
You nailed it.
Dr. Monica Goldson (28:57):
All day long .
So if they can serve as thatassistance in helping to
navigate it, then makes thatsuperintendent's role better
instead of having to answer toyour local and then still having
to answer to your federal.
You know, there are some statesthat will not accept the
federal funding because theydon't wanna adhere to the
(29:20):
federal requirements.
There are other states thathave no choice because they need
the federal funding to help toclose their financial gap and I
hate that.
That is where we are as acountry.
So if I could change it, itwould really be around focusing
on being a support instead ofthe hand-me-down of you have to
(29:41):
do and in order to do it.
To do it is when you get thedollars.
Ned Renzi (29:47):
And if you don't do it you don't get it.
Dr. Monica Goldson (29:48):
If I could pin you down at the high level
Department of Ed, net positiveor net negative to these school
districts around the country, Ithink it's a net positive
Anytime you have someone else inthe arena in public education
who can provide support on anylevel, who can provide support
on any level I gave one exampleon AI and they have helped in
assistance around literacy Thenit's always again a net positive
(30:18):
.
Ned Renzi (30:18):
The Dr Gold said I know you're involved with a few
startup companies, including theone where you and I got to work
together on and meet.
You know there's some newtechnologies in addition to AI,
a lot of interesting startups.
Are there any particularcompanies or technologies you're
excited about?
Dr. Monica Goldson (30:35):
Yeah, I'm very excited about those
companies that are able to usetechnology to support students
not only during the school daybut beyond the school day.
So for the previous schooldistrict that I served, 68% of
our students were onframe-reduced meals and so very
much needed support in theevenings with tutoring.
(30:59):
So I loved opportunities forstudents to have that support in
the afternoon or evening tohelp them navigate the work that
they needed to do on their owntime.
Because I come from a communitywhere sometimes students would
leave school, go to work andthen come home and so that
having those opportunities thatare not necessarily in a
confined time to get support itmight be 11 pm when they need
(31:23):
support and having the abilityto do that.
Looking at the elementary level,very intrigued by getting
community members to help withthe execution of learning for
our youngest children, and sowas intrigued by companies that
did small things by gettingcommunity members to read to
(31:45):
students virtually During thesummer and during the school
year we know the value ofreading to early learners and
for a community such as mine,where many of our students were
EL students whose parents didnot speak English, that was not
their first language and we weretrying to find a way to help
(32:06):
our students.
So looking for tools thatallowed us to kind of close that
gap, so very intrigued withlooking at technology tools that
kind of help to bridge theschool home connection, what do
you think the best strategiesthat are in place to ensure the
equitable distribution ofresources?
Monica Enand (32:25):
So technology, experienced teachers,
extracurricular activitiesacross the schools and we know
there's very differentexperiences in economically
diverse areas.
Dr. Monica Goldson (32:38):
First, you've got to do an assessment
of where you are as a schooldistrict period, and that's what
we did.
We knew that, okay, we wereheavy on computer labs and
laptops at the high school level, not so much at the elementary
and middle school level, and youtruly have to know where you're
(32:59):
trying to move your district.
So the pandemic was a greatexample.
It shifted everything to onlineexperiences and I can remember
going out with the countyexecutive to plead to parents.
I need we needed 90,000 devices.
Ned Renzi (33:17):
That's massive.
That's like bigger than 90% ofcompanies out there.
Dr. Monica Goldson (33:21):
Exactly Because we were going to do
something different for K1 and 2.
But we needed 90,000 devices.
I was 15,000 devices short.
I am in the community on thenews pleading to parents please
let children use your workdevice.
I'm asking employers, please.
We're short, 15,000.
This is before we had anyfederal funding to support um
(33:45):
the pandemic.
And I realized then likesomething has to give.
This is crazy.
Like first of all we're we'refault, because we should have
been prepared for this.
We weren't um, and that was thebeginning of it.
Then the next issue was so what?
You got an advice now they needinternet, so they need wi so if
you're talking about equitabledistribution of resources, you
(34:10):
also have to tackle somecommunity infrastructure issues.
So we then I was in constantcommunication with our county
government around theircommunities where they don't
even have wifi access.
They're constantly dropping.
So what are we going to doabout that?
I had to reach out to cablecompany to buy hotspots and then
(34:32):
deliver those hotspots to thosecommunities.
So it then became a wholecommunity experience.
So that's why I say, to reallylook at what that equitable
distribution is, you do needsome key players at the table.
It can't just be the schooldistrict alone.
We had to have a parentcommunity meeting in three
different parts of our county totalk about hey, this isn't a
(34:56):
problem in one part of thecommunity, because that
technology device is theirlifeline.
It allows their parents to paybills, it allows their child to
pay bills, it allows their childto get tutoring, it allows them
to get one-on-one support.
We even were able to contractwith a company that did mental
health supports throughtechnology, through the computer
(35:18):
device.
So there were students who weregetting one-on-one counseling
at home through the device,whereas other communities were
like, hey, can you just keep thedevice?
Whereas I had other communitieswere like, hey, can you just
keep the device at school,because when we get home we
don't want them to have thedevice when they get home.
And I literally had to informour community.
We're talking, we got twodifferent communities we're
dealing with here and so we'regoing to need your help, because
(35:40):
now we're getting ready to gointo the haves and have nots.
So in those homes where theydidn't want it, their kids had
exposure to technology devicesall the time without us even
giving it to them.
They already had computers, andso we really had to have a
(36:00):
compromise on meeting otherminds, and so we then started to
limit the amount of times thatpre-KK one and two spent on
technology devices, but allowparents to make the choice at
those levels of whether theywanted the device to come home
every day or not period, becausethe parent might need to use
(36:22):
the device themselves.
You've got to understand yourcommunity, you've got to know
where the gaps are and thenyou've got to come up with tools
to help them to close that gap.
If I had said we're only goingto let kids use that device
during the school day, I wouldhave created a major problem for
students who needed thatsupport in the evening and
parents who now are relying onthe tools that we provided to
(36:45):
kids to be their lifeline backto a school building.
Ned Renzi (36:49):
I know, when I work with CEOs, we have the saying
that says, meet them where theyare and it sounds like that's
what you're doing for yourcommunity.
And some people in the samecommunity are just in different
places and you kind of meet themwhere they are and just start
from there and meet them wherethey are and just start from
there.
Monica Enand (37:10):
Related to that topic, I noticed that this year
school just started here and Inoticed that this year one of
the high schools has the kidsmagnetic.
They have these magneticholders that they put their
phone, their watch if they haveone.
They put their AirPods orwhatever in the magnetic lockers
or magnetic holders in themorning and then they don't get
(37:31):
it unlocked until the what arelike?
What do you think about that?
You know?
Dr. Monica Goldson (37:35):
interesting.
You bring it this next to AI.
This is the second most.
This is the second mostimportant conversation that's
happening now between students,teachers, parents and district
leaders.
And so and interesting just hadthis conversation yesterday as
a state board member with someother state board members and it
really does vary.
(37:56):
I think you've got to know yourcommunity districts where the
parents are like don't you daretell me what to do with my, with
the cell phone I purchased formy child.
Then we have other communitieswhere they're like, oh my gosh,
(38:19):
I they need it, like please lockit up.
Um, and I think me I try tobring to a multiple lens.
I was a parent, I was a districtparent, so I can get.
I understand the parentswanting to have contact with
their kid all day.
You know, now in this day andtime with school shootings, it
(38:40):
causes parents to then want tostill communicate with their
kids.
So it's a very difficultconversation to have with
parents because if you watch thenews, there were parents who
were like I was talking to mychild when it was happening.
So they don't want to lose thatlifeline For educators.
They will tell you please takeit, but they don't want to be
(39:03):
the manager of the taking of it.
It's an interestingconversation and so I say all
that to say one you've got toknow your community.
I think this is the time tobegin to have those
conversations, to provide theresearch around the advantages
of locking up the cell phone atthe beginning of the school day
(39:25):
and getting it at the end,having resources and strategies
on how you're going to resolvethe issue with the parent who
wants to get to their childright then.
And there's no problem inpiloting.
So there's nothing wrong withchoosing one or two or three
schools out of a district topilot it first, to work out the
(39:46):
kinks, to use them, theirparents, their students,
teachers and staff to be theones who help to sell it to
everyone else.
Everything doesn't have tohappen immediately, right now,
but I do think we are on thebeginning of school districts
looking at limiting the amountof time students are on cell
(40:08):
phones.
Now let me just say this onemore thing really quick.
There was a time when I firststarted as a principal where we
were allowing students to havetheir cell phone because they
were using it in the classroomto look up a word like help them
.
Now, with so many districts,having technological devices in
(40:29):
the classroom for students touse.
You now can have thatconversation around.
You don't necessarily need thecell phone because there's an
iPad or desktop or a laptopright there for them to quickly
access.
So I think you're going to finda conversation.
It's going to vary by community.
What we don't want, what we'rehoping, is that our elected
(40:50):
officials won't go into thelegislature, coming up and
decide to ban without havingthese kinds of conversations and
ramming down the throats of ourcommunity members.
Ned Renzi (41:00):
We've covered quite a bit of ground on, you know,
education, on philosophies, ontechnology, what's working,
what's not.
I love this quote from a sci-fiauthor who says the future's
already here.
It's just not evenlydistributed and I feel like
you're on the front end of a lotof these different waves.
(41:22):
And so if you put your hat onand say, hey, it's 2034, 10
years from now, and theindustry's evolved according to
your vision or what you'reseeing at the edge right now,
what do you think K-12 educationlooks like 10 years from now?
Dr. Monica Goldson (41:39):
I think we won't be talking about AI.
There'll be something else newand shiny.
If you recall, we used to freakout over the calculator.
Now no one freaks out aboutthat anymore, so it's very
similar.
I think 10 years from nowthey'll be like AI.
There'll be something else newand shiny.
I think what you will findbecause we are in a major
teacher shortage.
So I think what you will findis that students might be
(42:03):
learning from a teacher in awhole nother state and they
might be in a diverse classroomwith students from their state
and another state, and a teachermight have 50 students and very
similar to sometimes what acollege classroom looks like.
I think you may find that atthe secondary level, I think
you're going to find flexiblescheduling for students.
(42:26):
I think right now there aresome places where they are
really looking at students whostart maybe at noon and go later
in the day because they havefamily obligations that they
have to support in the morning.
You have some who and it's verytypical for seniors, but at an
earlier age than seniors wherethey can start during the day,
(42:48):
do a half a day and maybe work.
You're seeing an increase ofstudents who are doing dual
enrollment and are able to earntheir high school diploma and
their associate's degree at thesame time.
I think you're going to find alot more of that, and what I'm
hoping you will find is adifferent post-secondary
(43:09):
experience than the traditionalcollege university experience
that many of our students aredoing right now, that many of
our students are doing right now.
I'm hoping that by 2034, ouruniversities will look different
(43:30):
because, for sure, our K-12 isstarting to move in that
direction.
Ned Renzi (43:32):
Yeah, look, I hope you're right.
If it's okay, I want to doubleclick on one of the things you
said at the beginning of yourvision, and this is the idea of,
you know, one teacher teachingmore students Right.
And so, if I look at otherindustries, if you're in the
music business, you know 100years ago you could only sing to
people you know in your venue,right.
(43:56):
And then you have radio music,albums, whatever to today, where
you have Taylor Swift and it'sdriven by power laws, right.
One person's making a billiondollars, and you can say that
about LeBron James in basketballor like any of these other
industries.
And so, like, what I'm sayingis like in these other
industries, technology allowsthe top 1% to sort of broadcast
(44:20):
to many, and my view is myexperience with teachers too is
there's a lot of good teachers,there's a handful of bad
teachers, but there's also ahandful of just truly great
teachers, and right now, thosetruly great teachers only reach
20 to 30 kids at a time.
And, like, how do you get thosetruly great ones, the 1% of the
(44:42):
1%, to reach a hundred millionkids or a hundred thousand kids,
or something like how?
How does that happen?
Dr. Monica Goldson (44:50):
You know, first it starts with um
highlighting that you have someamazing teachers right there in
front of you and then being,just what you say creative about
how to get them to serve thelesson to thousands.
And when you said it I smiledbecause I thought back during
the pandemic we weren't planningto purchase any technology for
(45:11):
K1 and 2.
But what we did have at ourdisposal was something this old
thing called a television, andwe had a public television
station.
And so we reached out to all ofour principals to say do you
have an amazing K-1 or 2 teacher?
They sent us names.
Our content specialist said ohmy gosh, yes, I've been there.
This person is amazing.
(45:32):
We paid them extra to teach alesson that was then televised
on our public television stationfor K1 and 2 in four core
content areas.
We published a schedule andparents could cut on the TV and
their kids would sit and do thelesson.
We even had packets ofmaterials that parents would run
(45:56):
by the school one day a week topick up.
That would support the lessonsthat the teacher taught.
That was through a publictelevision station.
The same thing can happen now.
It could be instead of thatpublic television station.
It can be through a computer, adevice, and so we just have to
move away from the traditionalmode.
(46:18):
We just have to move away fromthe traditional mode, and you're
right, getting the top tier andgetting down to a community of
folks who need it.
And when you think about it forthe pandemic, there were
parents who were like, oh mygosh, this is the best thing out
, and the lessons ran multipletimes.
I mean, we even did PE on TVfor pre-KK in one and two.
(46:40):
So it's possible, ned.
We just have to get out of ourway and sometimes getting out of
our way means we also have tohave conversations with our
union leaders that there are agroup of people educators who
want to work beyond thetraditional work hours and who
want the extra pay to do it.
Ned Renzi (46:58):
Well, tell you what if you start that company, I
will fund you.
Monica Enand (47:02):
Well, thank you, nick.
Thank you, thank you.
Well, if you start any company,I would be interested in
funding you.
But you know, as I listened toyou and I was thinking about
this episode being verydifferent than most of the
episodes, because we talked tomostly, like business leaders,
tech companies, founders and Iwas thinking, oh, education, I
(47:23):
wonder how this is going toapply.
But I'm sitting here listeningand I'm thinking your leadership
approach and the kinds of waysthat you have to lead large
groups of people it's a lot ofthe same.
It's a lot the same.
It's a lot of.
I hear you talk about listeningto different stakeholders,
(47:44):
creating empathy with yourstakeholders for other
stakeholders, making sureeverybody understands each other
.
Like, do you?
You know, we've frequentlytalked about kind of leadership
frameworks or how leaders thinkabout.
Do you have any frameworks thatyou use or sort of principles
that you use to help you in yourleadership practice that you
could share?
(48:05):
Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Monica Goldson (48:06):
I very much am aligned with the servant
leadership model.
I did look at education as abusiness.
I mean, like I said, I led a$2.4 billion corporation in my
mind and I also made investmentsto support me as a leader.
So I had an executive coach andI had a coach that was not in
(48:28):
education, because I needed thatcoach to look at it from a
different lens.
You know it's what pushed me tobe a better leader.
Ned said at the beginning I had19,000 employees If you count
substitutes, 20,000 employees,and I was always trying to find
ways that I could get to themand I always wanted to make sure
(48:51):
that they felt like they couldget to me.
Harvard does some researcharound the messy middle.
If you can't move the middle ofyour organization, you're never
going to move that organization.
And I really spent a lot oftime focused on the messy middle
, the top that we're going tomeet every.
We met every Tuesday, the coreof the classroom.
(49:12):
I spent time in the classroom,that's that's.
That was the crux, the core ofour work.
We can't do anything if we'renot supporting that core.
And I think for any leader, forany company, when you know what
that core is, then you'retrying to figure out how
everyone can support that core.
That is very well said.
Ned Renzi (49:28):
I think I could talk for two days on this topic.
I'm like to me, it's the futureof the country.
Right, and you know, sometimesI think we do a decent job
preparing the next generation Alot of areas.
I think we do a greatdisservice to the next
generation in terms of justpreparing them to be adults and
contributors to society.
I think if we have more peoplelike Dr Goldson, we'd be much
(49:50):
better off as a country for thefuture.
Dr. Monica Goldson (49:53):
I sure hope so.
I'm trying to raise two to bebetter.
That I'm raising to be betterfor the country, and I sure hope
there's some'm trying to raisetwo to be better that I'm
raising to be better for thecountry, and I sure hope there's
some other folks who are tryingto do the same you are a great
inspiration to many.
Monica Enand (50:03):
So thank you so much for spreading your
inspirational story larger,wider, hopefully reaching people
that have not met you or don'tget the joy of, like Ned, of
being on a board with you orknowing you and your work.
But I really appreciate youspending time with us today and
I look forward to all the coolnew things you do in this next
(50:25):
chapter and I look forward toour continued partnership,
wherever that may lead us.
Dr. Monica Goldson (50:31):
Thank you for the opportunity.
I truly appreciate it.
Monica Enand (50:34):
And this has been another episode of Master Stroke
.
Thank you so much to Sejal andto Ned, and thank you, dr Monica
Goldson, and I wanted to alsothank our executive producer,
georgiana Moreland thank you forlistening today.
Georgianna Moreland (50:47):
We would love for you to follow and
subscribe.
Monica and Sejal would love tohear from you.
You can text us directly fromthe link in the show notes of
this episode.
You can also find us on theLinkedIn page at Masterstroke
Podcast with Monica Enid andSejo Petrzak.
Until next time.
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