July 19, 2022 • 60 mins
Hello Mavens! Yasmine and I are back with another episode of spookiness and maybe a brief history lesson or two. You have watched "Hamilton" at least once, but do you know the incredible mystery surrounding Theodosia Burr's disappearance/death? Was it simply the weather or could pirates be to blame? Yasmine completes our otherworldly discussion with spine tingling tales about The Ladies of White that appear throughout the world. Don't forget to check your back seat and NEVER pick up hitchhikers!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Yasmine (00:06):
Yes.
Hello everyone.
How are you?
So good talking to you againtoday?
Yes.
Jen (00:12):
So I have no idea what Yasmine has chosen to talk
about.
I know.
So it's gonna be a, a totalsurprise for me, which I love.
We didn't give ourselves muchtime like two days, couple of
days.
Yeah.
between recording our lastepisode and this one, but I am
so nerdy that I have notesstarted on a plethora of
subjects and highlighted booksand all these things.
(00:35):
So one that really stuck out tome is an interesting story
disappearance sea mystery andalso it's got politics.
Ooh, yes.
Yasmine (00:49):
Edgy.
Jen (00:50):
And it sort of takes place.
Like I said, it's a big mystery,but mostly we think it took
place around Nags Head, NorthCarolina, and I just for the
first time ever visited therewith my dad, we did the whole
history tour there.
Oh, cool.
About three weeks ago now.
So it was, I thought it was timeto bring this, this story out
(01:11):
into the light.
So I have titled this, theMysterious Fate of Theodosia
Burr.
Yasmine (01:20):
Oh, I have chills.
Oh my gosh.
I don't know.
I know just the very minimumabout her.
I'm so excited.
Jen (01:28):
Oh, well this is great.
And I didn't even think about,well, nevermind people haven't
gotten there in their head yet.
I'm not gonna go there.
So certain Broadway musical fansmight, have yeah.
This ring in their head now.
So I love this because itcombines local legend and lore
as well as a potentialhistorical true crime aspect.
(01:49):
So this was right up my alleyand to do a little bit of
background and get the.
Political part out of the way Iam not a ginormous fan of
politics, but I do love thehistory of our of our system and
of our country, how it gotstarted.
And especially when you havethings like this so many of you
(02:12):
history mavens will probablyknow the name, Aaron Burr, and
he was a junior.
He lived from 1756 to 1836 andhe was the third vice president
of the United States.
And he had an interesting way ofgetting there.
So basically him and good oldTJ, Thomas Jefferson tied in the
(02:37):
electoral college and theyhadn't really thought that one
through if that kind of thingwere to happen.
They also, hadn't reallyinstructed people to say which
they were voting for.
Like, are you voting for him tobe president or vice president?
So that was a whole thing thatthey had to figure out and fix,
(02:59):
for moving forward.
But obviously we know he did notend up being president So long
story short, he believed thathis longtime political nemesis
enemy, whatever AlexanderHamilton had influenced the
Federalist controlled house ofrepresentatives to have him in
the vice president slot insteadof as president.
(03:21):
And he definitely was not superrespected by Thomas Jefferson.
It was very clear that There washistory there, but it was also
very clear that Hamiltonprobably had great influence in
how he was perceived.
So it wasn't taken veryseriously by the president,
(03:42):
just, it wasn't a, wasn't a goodscene for him.
So he pretty well knows thathe's not gonna be renominated
for to run, for the next term,he's not gonna be on the ticket
as a vice president or, orotherwise.
So he so after this, so 1804, hewas nominated for governorship,
but he lost that too.
(04:04):
And he also believed that thatwas because of Hamilton and
which it probably was.
And so he challenges Hamilton toa duel.
Yes.
And you're like, It's a littlelate for duels, not too
terribly, but yeah, I mean, theyare illegal.
(04:24):
And they are illegal where theyare and they are illegal in New
York and New Jersey.
But he decides bird decides thatthey're gonna do it New Jersey,
because it's sort of lessillegal there.
Basically in that they're you,they're not gonna punish you as
badly as if you have it in NewYork.
(04:44):
So, so his name left me for justa second Hamilton agrees to this
and they go, and as we know, Ibelieve it was, yeah.
So on July 11th, 1804 Burr doesshoot Hamilton and he is gravely
injured.
He dies the next day from thoseinjuries.
(05:05):
So Burr is arrested and chargedwith treason and he is
ultimately acquitted of that.
Basically I think it, isn't itsomething about the country
wasn't in active war at thetime.
So treason wasn't an applicablecharge.
It was something
Yasmine (05:23):
like that.
Some loophole type
Jen (05:25):
thing.
Yeah.
And I was kinda like, why didthey even choose treason in the
first place?
Doesn't matter anyway, couldhave just gone for straight
murder or something.
I would've thought.
But anyway so he ends up selfexiling to Europe for four
years.
I imagine to let the, heat diedown a little bit.
Let someone else become thestory and move on, from from
him.
And so he stays in Europe for,until he returns to New York in
(05:49):
June of 1812.
So why am I talking about him?
Because his life is definitelyno mystery no mystery there.
So now I will introduce you tohis daughter.
Theodosia Burr she was born 1783and she was incredibly close to
her father.
I know that her mother had diedand she sort of took over being
(06:12):
sort of the, the lady of thehousehold.
I don't know exactly how earlyin her life her mother died.
So but anyway, she does that,her father dos on her, he makes
sure that she has an educationto rival any man, which of
course we know was unheard of.
For that, that time even if yourdad liked you he wasn't gonna
educate you but he doesn't dothat.
(06:35):
He absolutely makes sure.
And she is very well known forher intellect how sophisticated
she was in any situation you,would throw at her, she could
adapt to and come out on top.
And so, and also she was a lotof the newspapers of the time
described her as, stunning andbeautiful and, and all of those
(06:58):
things.
So I guess she's the wholepackage.
I don't.
Wow.
10 outta 10 10 outta 10 wouldrecommend.
Yes.
Oh goodness.
Anyway, so she, so his selfexile very hard on her because
of their closeness and so shedoes end up getting married to
the South Carolina.
Well, he would become quicklythe South Carolina governor
(07:21):
Joseph Austin.
They have a son who she namesAaron mm-hmm or Austin he's born
in may of 1802.
However, he dies of tropicalfever in 1812, and 1812 is not
going to be her year, well thatinto 1813.
(07:42):
So they'd said that she sufferedfrom, as they would call it
fragile health.
So Lord knows what that evenmeans.
It could be that she wasdepressed to some, mental
illness to, who knows, all womenare hysterical and even if
you're as smart as she is, soLord knows what that diagnosis
(08:04):
even means.
But no doubt.
She is very, very depressed overthe loss of her son.
And also that her father is hasbeen gone.
She hasn't had that supportsystem and she very much
supported him throughout histrial for treason, which much
like today drug on for a bitfrom the, from the date of the
duels and he was arrested.
(08:26):
So so she'd been under a lot ofstress and I think it's also
mentioned being the first ladyher husband being governor and
so a lot of pressure on her anda lot of stresses.
And then you add the death ofher son and, she's not in a good
place.
And so she hoping her fathergets there.
And so by the fall of 1812 he'sin New York and she's of course
(08:49):
in South Carolina in CharlestonI imagine.
Yeah.
And so.
He writes to her and I'll havelinks to some newspapers that
have the letters published thatsome letters that he had written
that they wrote back and forth,as well as her husband and her
wrote back and forth before theywere married.
Yeah, really cool.
And so anyway he's like, Hey,can I cheer you up?
(09:11):
I want you to come, visit me.
I think, change of scenery.
All of that would be, would begood for us to, actually be
together again and see eachother face to face.
Her husband is not big on thisidea and he's got good reason to
be 18, 12 ring a bell the war of1812.
So it's not a great time for youto be traveling by sea because
(09:32):
well, yeah, the British werethere and they, you had that so
you had the risk of, of, of badthings happening.
So you're sort of, you're.
Tail end of hurricane season.
Hm, pretty sure.
I know October starts hurricaneseason, so this I haven't gotten
(09:52):
to the date yet, but so I thinkstorms are a possibility, well,
they're always possibility onthe sea, but I'm pretty sure
you're in prime time.
Or at least the tail end ofprime time for for tropical
storms and that kind of thing.
So that's not good.
And he's not gonna be able to gowith her because he's governor
and there's a war of 1812happening he's busy.
Right.
(10:13):
And so he's, not loving all ofthose things and of course these
papers of the day, verysensational, so who knows, but
they say he had, just a, aoverwhelming sense of doom about
the, the whole thing, the wholetrip.
So they try to oh, and piratesalso not thrilled because yes,
(10:34):
we have, the British or, and allof this, we have storms and we
have pirates.
So so her dad and him try tomitigate some of the risk.
Her husband decides he, hechooses the ship that she's
going to get on.
And it is happily called thePatriot and it is known for its
(10:54):
reliability.
It's speed.
And it, it's got a, a good trackrecord.
Her dad finds a friend of his adoctor I believe, who agrees to
make the, the trip with her.
So she won't be by herself, soon.
And it's kind of weird this alleverywhere.
It was either December 30th orDecember 31st, whichever of 1812
(11:18):
she boards Patriot, which was aschooner at Charleston Harbor.
And basically she, along withthe crew.
and all the other passengerswere never seen again.
Yasmine (11:31):
That quickly.
Jen (11:35):
Oh my goodness.
But obviously, I don't know.
And I even had a note here couldlook up about how long would
that have taken to have gottento New York?
I didn't remember, but anyway,so I don't know.
In 1812 on a Schooner, I don'tknow how long that would've
taken you to get fromCharleston, South Carolina, up
to, to New York.
But,
Yasmine (11:55):
well, I don't know how big a schooner is, but I'm
pretty sure that that they stayand they could still see the
shore.
So they wouldn't have been thatfar out.
I don't think, especially ifyou're just going north, you're
not going across anything.
Jen (12:09):
See that's one of the, that's gonna be one of the
really cool theories.
The one that.
Well, I don't know if I wannabelieve it or not.
That'd be kind of dark with me.
So anyways so after theappropriate time, I think I did
read somewhere like after acouple of weeks and there had
been no word, okay.
And they start to like, eh, thisisn't great.
(12:30):
I feel, this isn't, this, thisisn't great.
So ultimately though the ship isdefinitely overdue for sure.
And they, they choose, it saidthat her father and husband,
choose to believe that they werejust lost at sea, a storm
happened.
And and that was that.
(12:51):
And I actually did find, butthen it's written upside down
cause I'm a genius like that.
Let's see.
Cause I did actually find fromin a log book from another, a
nearby.
Ship that where the heck did Iwrote it down?
(13:12):
Anyway, I wrote it downsomewhere.
I'm gonna find it now somewhereout of order.
But anyway, they did figure outthat on like, oh man, maybe two
or three days after it set sail,there was a massive storm.
And so, and it was just likejust off the coast of Cape
Hatteras.
And so, that could definitely bewhat happened, So we do know
(13:40):
there was a storm, but I mean,then other people are like, but
that ship and other ships, theydidn't, have any issues.
So, who knows, but that is thereally boring theory.
Yasmine (13:54):
And, and probably the one that is more likely
Jen (13:58):
Occam's Razor, it's probably what happens.
But anyway, Yasmine,
Yasmine (14:00):
sorry.
I wanna hear the ones.
No, that's where I say this isgonna be a little bit dark.
So I'm kinda like, I, I, yeah, Ichoose to also be with her
husband and father.
That probably is what happened,but it not, there's a lot of
compelling evidence.
I gotta say.
That could mean something else.
(14:21):
So then I freaking, yeah, Iwrote it down right there.
Anyway, about the weather.
So in 1820 a I'm calling him aretired pirate.
I don't know what else you callthem.
He told an Alabama newspaper.
That he and his crew hadplundered the Patriot and killed
(14:43):
everyone on board.
Why did he say that?
Right.
So more to come on.
Some of that then 1833, 2pirates, who were ultimately
sentenced to death.
They were on trial in Norfolk,Virginia, and they confessed to
(15:04):
luring the ship out onto therocks in Nags, Head, North
Carolina.
And then once the ship, ofcourse is basically run a ground
or it's, it's stuck, theyboarded the ship.
They they plunder it.
They do all that stuff thatpirates do.
And this gentleman's name was,this pirate was Benjamin
(15:27):
burdock, bur Nope, Burdick.
and he says that he vividlyremembers Theodosia.
Wow.
Because he was in charge ofhelping while making all of them
walk the plank and ultimatelydrown.
(15:47):
And that, he says she was thelast one off and her face has
haunted him all these years,even though he had, been a part
of killing lots and lots ofpeople, because he was actually
part of a famous pirate.
John Lafe.
Yeah, that was French.
And I'm sure it's supposed to besaid just like that in case he
(16:08):
was part of his game, so, oh,wow.
So, so this is a deathbedconfession for, for him dying at
an S house in Michigan at this.
So anyway, so he is saying heremembers her because the, the
look on her face, she was justutterly, just terrified.
(16:31):
And I would imagine being thelast one, I mean, I'm always one
of those weirdos, like I willvolunteer even though, like in
speech class or something youjust don't want to, do'm always
the one just like, let's just,let's just do this.
Like I can't sit here and watcheverybody, like deal.
I gotta just get this over withand move on with my life.
(16:53):
So that probably would've been,I don't know, I could see me
doing that and that situationcan't last that's okay.
Just too much.
Can't do this psychologicaltorture.
And he also said he vividlyremembers that she was clutching
a Bible and did so as shedrowned and disappeared between
the waves.
So many historians say that theytotally reject.
(17:16):
His whole story because her andher father were not known to be
religious.
However, I say to that many,many people get religion when
they know they are facing death.
Right.
So I wouldn't rule that out justbased on that right.
Personally.
I mean, I see what you mean.
Jen (17:37):
Yeah.
So I'm not killing the legend onthat.
So a second less weird, it'sweird and less likely, but and
by the way, I get a lot of thisfrom library of Congress.
So it's, as legit as it can befor legend So this one is just
whatever, but I'm gonna mentionit anyway.
So a female stranger.
(17:59):
Is spotted in a graveyard at St.
Paul's Episcopal church.
Now this is in Alexandria,Virginia.
And so this legend says thatshe's an ill appearing woman and
there's a man with her and shecalls him her husband.
And this is happening in 1816.
So she is like I said, illappearing.
So she's sick.
(18:19):
So I'm imagining a doctor iscalled mm-hmm and they both
refuse to give their names tothis doctor.
She ends up passing away shortlythereafter of nobody recorded
what the illness was and legend,of course, and still today,
local swear that that was Johnand Theodosia Austin.
(18:40):
So ridiculous.
Yasmine (18:43):
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean that's a littlefarfetched.
Yeah.
Jen (18:47):
So I had to mention it cause you're gonna see it and
it's whatever.
But anyway, so moving on fromthat, that's not my favorite.
Now 1869.
This is cool.
So Dr.
William pool and his daughterthey make a, he's basically
vacationing, summering, whateveron max head.
And so he makes a house call toa patient.
(19:12):
Obviously this wouldn't besomeone like that.
He would know.
So he's never met her before.
He's called to assist the womannamed Holly man, who I believes
in her seventies.
And so she lives in a verymodest home, nothing fancy.
She is not a wealthy woman byany stretch of the imagination
she's widowed.
And so as soon as they enter,they are struck by this
(19:33):
gorgeous, beautifully framed,and obviously professionally
done full portrait of a strikingyoung woman about, I think they
say about 25 years.
Okay.
And so Mrs.
Mann says that her late spousehad found it in the cabin of an
abandoned vessel that haddrifted to shore mm-hmm they're
(19:57):
in nags, head at this isplausible at this point.
Okay.
Okay.
Dr.
Pool ends up taking it aspayment for his services.
Also, also also bit saw analternate version of that, which
I feel makes more sense cuz I'mlike, that's a douche move right
there.
Cuz this lady has nothing andshe's had this painting for,
(20:18):
this is 1869.
She's saying she's had it atleast 50 years.
Yeah.
So I saw, but so I did seeanother one made me feel better
and I'm adopting this one.
And it basically said that thedoctor, this woman had never
seen a physician, like she hadmade it to 70 some years old and
had never seen a physician,which you probably know that's
possible then the point.
and he actually is able toreally help her.
(20:42):
And she also takes the liking tohis daughter who, he's brought
with him and as she gets to knowhim, as he's treating her mm-hmm
and she ends up gifting theportrait to the daughter.
And
Yasmine (20:54):
I like, oh yeah, I like that.
Yeah.
I like
Jen (20:56):
it better.
I'm going with it.
Yeah.
So so he said, so he takes thispainting and he ends up showing
it to members of the Burr familyand they couldn't confirm or
deny that this was a portrait ofTheodosia.
So but this is said to be theabsolute best evidence of the
(21:16):
pirate theory now.
Such an awesome, fascinatingarticle as all these historical
newspapers are, but not a supersensationalist one that I really
liked and I'll have the link toit.
And if anybody doesn't knowabout the chronicling America
project through library ofCongress where it has all of the
newspapers that you can searchfor totally free and they have
(21:39):
great search tool you can reallynarrow it down.
It's amazing.
Highly recommend.
But anyway, so the, so this isfrom the 1906 edition of the San
Francisco call and, and thisstory stayed in the news,
literally like, like this long,if you go to search anywhere
from 18, 13 mm-hmm and I stoppedat 1906, but I know there was
(22:02):
stuff at least in 1909.
I had like 60 pages where hername is mentioned, so wow.
Yasmine (22:08):
They did not give up.
Jen (22:09):
Looking for her.
So this is like, this was a bigpay deal during, the time.
So let's see, I said the name ofthe paper.
Oh.
So it reports that this portraitwas donated by Dr.
Pool's daughter.
Who of course I failed to everwrite her name down, sorry.
And was hung in the all ofhistory of North Carolina.
Yasmine (22:32):
So it still exists this painting.
Jen (22:35):
I'm not sure where, so maybe so maybe.
Yes, that's cool.
That's cool.
And yeah, so anyway so over theyears kind of, as I'd mentioned,
there had been several piratedeath bed confessions about
Patriot, and they were reportedin, these newspapers, they would
(22:55):
do article or interviews with,with these guys.
So one of a few of the also justsuper wild theories said that
she was held captive in Bermudaand forced to be like a pirate
mistres.
And that ultimately she waskilled by a member of, oh Lord,
I gotta say his name again.
Jean LA rewind Jean LA afterbeing captured and refusing a
(23:22):
Pirate's advances and upsidedown again was trying save
paper.
And it's just funny.
Let's see.
Oh, more on the portrait.
So that article that Imentioned, the San Francisco
call and like, so I'll have thelink to it.
It was commissioned, they doknow there was a portrait done
(23:43):
of her so that they're, why thisgained traction.
And it was commissioned in 1802by her father.
The painter was a I don't knowif he was an acquaintance, a
friend, whatever.
And the only name that I saw wasVandel.
So this, kind of lens credenceto the, the, the ghost ship
theory, the pirate, looting it,and then just letting it letting
(24:07):
go.
And I do know that that Benjaminverdict pirate that I talked
about that, had confessed andsaw clutching the Bible and it
haunted him that pirate.
He had mentioned that, I mean,he specifically said that they
had, and I don't do boats, so Idon't know.
I don't remember.
But anyway, they had like tackedstuff down and whatever, so to
(24:31):
before they left and I don'tknow if that made it just
continue.
Do its thing or, or what, but hewas that specific about what
they, after plundering the shipand killing, the people then
they basically did likemaintenance stuff on the ship to
make it, like they didn't sinkit on purpose, I guess.
(24:53):
Oh, okay.
Like maybe that was what thatwas doing.
Maybe, maybe now that I thinkabout it.
Yeah.
I don't know both.
So I don't know, but you canread the full, very long article
that I link to.
I'm gonna link a couple of'emactually.
And they've got really greatgraphics too.
One is a, a lithograph orwhatever of depicting Theodosia
(25:14):
walking the plank and drawing ofthe ship and stuff.
Oh, wow.
Actually a pretty, pretty welldone of what this, this pirate.
Retired pirate, excuse me, isdescribing.
So let's see.
Oh, so how also they talkedabout lowering ships to their
(25:35):
doom on the rocks and then beingable to under, so this is not a
hundred percent, so this fallsunder the, the lore kind of
thing.
But people believe since he kindof mentions it, that it's very
possible.
So essentially NAS headinhabitants early, early,
inhabitants, they would use thevery treacherous briefs and the
(25:58):
rocks, all of that to lure shipsvia flashing Lanard.
So what they would do is theywould tie a lantern around a
horse's neck, and then theywould hobble the horse's legs,
causing it to limp and reducingits restricting the horse.
Right.
So now, and outer banks, all ofthat.
(26:23):
You've got the ginormous sanddunes.
And I would imagine back in thisday they were like really
ginormous.
Yeah.
And so the effect that thatwould have as the horse tries to
navigate in all of theserestrictions and whatever the
horse would kind of stumble overthe sand dunes and it would make
it appear like the light, theLanter would Bob up and down
(26:46):
like a ship at sea.
And that sneaking on the darkocean open ocean, they could
trick people into still thinkingthey weren't in anywhere near
shore.
Yasmine (27:00):
Oh my goodness.
That's sneaky.
yeah.
Jen (27:04):
I was just like, what?
So, wow.
Yasmine (27:09):
Yeah, that's what I got.
Wow.
crazy story.
I had no idea.
That's wow.
Fascinating is
Jen (27:20):
I thought that was, that was really neat.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yasmine (27:26):
Well, good job.
That's awesome.
Okay.
So I was all inspired last week.
I think I'm gonna turn my lighton really quick.
Okay.
Jen (27:39):
My light so weird in here.
It's like passing shadows andI'm like, there's my face.
Yasmine (27:44):
So I think I put on backwards.
Yep.
I sure did.
Okay.
So I got inspired last week, soI think I mentioned, I put it
out there to like my localFacebook group to see if there
was any local superstitions.
(28:05):
Well, not so much heavy on thesuperstitions, but really heavy
on the ghost stories.
yeah.
so there's quite a lot ofcontent that I need to go
through and I need to kind ofsuss out a little bit more.
Right.
But there were.
(28:27):
A couple of stories inparticular that came up more
than once and for like differentsurrounding areas, which were
like ladies and white.
Oh.
So we have two out here on twostretches of road that are
supposedly ladies and white.
And then I don't know if you'veever heard of Calco ghost town,
(28:48):
Calco mining town.
It's a minor historical landmarkout here.
But I'll go into that a littlebit more.
So I'm gonna tell a few storiesand I'm gonna try my best, not
to look at my notes too much cuzI wrote'em out.
I know the stories so, okay.
Do you have any, are there anyladies and white out where you
live any like stories like that?
Jen (29:09):
On.
Nothing that I know that we do.
Let me just say we have I'msure.
Yeah.
Ladies and white and it's eitherthat, or it's ladies and black.
Okay.
But yeah, I came
Yasmine (29:20):
across a few of those
Jen (29:21):
too.
But nothing that super stuckwith me that sticks with me,
around here.
Yeah.
I know that we do have some likeroad related, like yeah.
Kind of things, but but yeah,
Yasmine (29:34):
yeah.
Not in particular.
That's that's okay.
So I'm gonna tell my local onesfirst.
But
Jen (29:39):
I don't know.
I think I've told people thoughthat like, I repel goes and
stuff.
So do you so I, cause I think Iwanna see one, like actually see
it, like, I know my is haunted,but I've not actually like, had
something appear.
Yeah.
Yasmine (29:58):
I'm like, I'm
Jen (29:58):
good from the same things.
I'm like, I'm OK.
Just knowing you're here.
Yeah,
Yasmine (30:02):
that's fine.
It's just, I feel your presence.
You're good.
We're good.
so I'm gonna tell a couple thatare local and then a couple of
inter not international global.
So from other places in theworld What I found was generally
the ladies, a young woman thatdies in an accident or by her
own hand because of some kind ofgrief sometimes involving her
(30:25):
children or new fiance orhusband, sometimes a white dress
is a wedding dress.
Other times it's a nightg gown.
It just happens to be what she'swearing.
And in many instances, her dressis also wet.
So I'm just kind of, oh, in likeinteresting.
Many of these legends can betraced to women we can verify
(30:45):
lived, which was really cool.
Oh, that's
Jen (30:49):
usual.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh,
Yasmine (30:50):
this is.
Other origins are lost withtime.
Waters also seem to be a commontheme.
Bodies of water.
Almost always seem to inspireour imaginations as beautiful as
they can be.
They also held the power of lifeand death within them.
So it's very interesting.
Okay.
So here in the deserts ofSouthern California, we have a
(31:11):
lot of long stretches of road.
You see'em in movies and thingslike that.
Death valley, where you can seefor miles, and that is not
uncommon people drive.
Oh yeah, no, no mountains outhere.
Not until, I mean, you gottadrive a little to get up to the
mountains and people drive outhere.
Like they're the only ones onthe road because sometimes most
(31:32):
of the time they are.
But it's like.
So some of these roads are knownto be dangerous.
Yeah.
And I think that's inspired,especially some of the local
ghost stories for sure.
Okay.
All right.
So, okay.
So the one, actually, I don'twanna triangulate my position
too, too much.
right.
But there is a road not too faraway from where I live that it's
(31:56):
about a five mile stretch and itactually is within city limits.
There's like apartments on thisroad and a gas station.
And, it's well-populated, whichwas interesting because a lot of
people that jumped on theFacebook post had said they had
seen it.
So that's really interesting.
(32:16):
Oh, wow.
So she has said to be a youngwoman in white.
Oh.
who does not walk, but floatsalong the side.
And then when you kind of makelike in passing by you look
back, she's gone.
So she's along this this road.
And she said to be like, she hadan, there was an accident, a
tragic accident, and ha is howshe died in her soul stays
(32:39):
there.
So there's actually two of thesestories, which are very similar.
Okay.
But just two different roads,which I thought was weird.
I don't know.
That's kind of random.
So I do drive a lot by myself,so I try not to think about them
too much.
right.
Especially at night.
So so yeah, and then the otherone, I mentioned Calco ghost
town and she's rumored to haunt.
(33:03):
Calco ghost town is in YMO it'sin death valley.
It was an old mining town thatwas bought and restored by have
you heard of Knottsberry farm?
I have heard of that.
So the owner of Knottsberry farmactually put like$700,000 into
this little random shacks thatwas a mining town and made it an
(33:26):
attraction.
So I thought that was kind ofcool is neat.
Jen (33:29):
That's something I would love.
Yasmine (33:31):
Yeah, they've restored it and they have events there
now, and it's so crazy.
I've lived out here my wholelife.
My brothers have gone to fieldtrips there.
I've never been, so maybe it'ssomething I make a point of
going, like, I don't know howthat happens, but I've never
been so and the woman in whiteshe's been seen.
Oh, go.
So, okay.
She's been seen wandering theperimeter of the town.
(33:56):
and the cemetery, the cemeteryhas about 120 to 200 people that
have been buried there.
Oh, wow.
And she doesn't speak to anyone.
She doesn't interact.
She just wanders.
So, oh, I might have to do alittle bit more on Calco later
because there's a lot there.
So maybe I'll go visit and then,oh, that would be awesome.
(34:17):
Do a whole nother.
Yes.
Yeah, that'd be really cool.
Okay.
So another legend I grew uphearing was LA yo, so that is
Spanish or Spanish for theweeping woman.
Okay.
In.
Okay.
And I'm gonna try to put thisdown because not only did I
(34:39):
write, like do my research andeverything on it, but I watched
the movie that came out in like2019, I think it was Valona so
okay.
So in Mexico, there wereindigenous people there, the
Spanish came over, theycolonized and they created towns
and but they also, they createdthe class system that's there.
(35:01):
So I think that's what I'mgetting at.
This woman was like a beautifulMexican woman, but she was
considered low class.
So even though she turned theheads of everyone she passed by
and she had many suitors andthings like that she was still a
part of the low class.
Okay.
I, I'm not sure how, but shecaught the eye of a higher class
(35:22):
rancher in the area.
And he decided he wanted toleave his wealth behind because
you could only go up.
Oh wait.
No, you could only go down.
You can go up.
Gotcha.
So he couldn't bring her up withhim.
You had to go down to be withher, which stinks.
I know.
Terrible.
Yeah.
So sad.
So they created a, they, createda humble home for themselves
(35:45):
near a river and they had abeautiful life.
They loved each other.
They had two kids.
All was good in the hood.
Well, his his family called himback to help them with some
business endeavor, something,maybe someone, his family died,
something like that.
Right.
So he was pulled away for a timeand it was supposed to be a very
(36:07):
short time, but weeks turnedinto months, turned into years
and he was gone.
So there's a couple differentversions of this story.
One involves him just straightup cheating on her.
Didn't leave.
Didn't go anywhere.
Just, she discovered him in thearms of a younger woman.
And the other version is thathe's called away and she sees
(36:29):
him, she's walking to town oneday with her kids.
She sees him coming down theroad.
She doesn't know it's him atfirst, but he's with this new
woman.
Oh yeah.
And he tells her, yeah.
So, and she's younger.
Of course she always, she hasto.
Right, right.
Yeah.
But she's of like the high classor whatever.
So he gets his old life backtoo, the luxury and all that
(36:51):
stuff, calls him back.
And he tells her, I miss my kidsand I'm gonna take them.
Oh.
So I will give you to tomorrowto say goodbye, and I'm gonna
come back and I'm gonna takethem.
And.
He leaves, they leave and she'sso distraught.
She's so upset.
She does the unimaginable.
(37:13):
She takes her children down tothe river and she drowns them.
She's in a fit of rage and griefand despair.
Right.
They drown, she drowns them whenshe comes too, when she realizes
what she's done, she then drownsherself.
There's no other choice, but shedrowns herself.
Her spirit doesn't make it tothe, I don't know really what to
(37:38):
heaven to the gates, to the nextlife because they tell her she
has to bring the souls of herchildren with her.
So her spirit is left forever.
Wandering, looking for,searching for weeping or looking
for the souls of her children.
Okay.
That's that's the
Jen (37:58):
story I was gonna say, yeah, I have questions.
Yeah.
Yasmine (38:01):
Yeah.
Lots of questions.
Okay.
That's the story.
Now what we were told as kidsokay.
Here's the other part of it.
We're told this scary storyaround a, the fire pit or,
whatever.
And we're told that the weepingwoman that LA you have to be
(38:21):
inside the house as a kid beforedark, because Laona is gonna
take your soul.
You
Jen (38:28):
kid will do at this point.
Woman's tired.
Yasmine (38:32):
She wants, right.
She's just gonna take anybody.
Because at this point she's beenlooking so long.
She's just gonna take you cuzyou've been outside.
Now.
The other side of it is you haveto be good because if you're
bad, we'll leave you outside tobe taken.
Jen (38:49):
Oh, this is still having like Krampus vibes and all of
those one of things,
Yasmine (38:53):
Yeah.
Right.
Krampus.
Yeah.
It sounds like that
Jen (38:58):
lo seems to come about for the sole purpose of terrifying
Yasmine (39:02):
children.
Yes.
Getting your children to behave.
Jen (39:05):
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
The Inuit have so many that arerevolve around keeping kids safe
because obviously they're rightthere at this horribly ice cold
ocean right.
And really dangerous, conditionsin the Antarctic and all this.
So their legends are super scaryand revolve a lot around, water
(39:29):
yeah.
To keep kids.
So it's really, it's reallycool.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Yasmine (39:33):
It, well, and it's so crazy too, because kids up until
they're like.
Well mine up until they werelike seven or eight, because we
didn't do like swimming lessonsor anything like that.
Mm-hmm they could not swim.
And so they were scared to gointo the water by themselves.
They're scared to go outside bythemselves, things like that.
Yeah.
So you're playing on thatalready established fear.
(39:57):
I think I was told that by anaunt or something like that.
Not necessarily my mom, butyeah, so that's the kind of the
story that we grew up with.
So scary.
I, yeah, and then I watched thatmovie today and it's like a
modern, it's not a modern take.
You still have the, the story ofLidon as the same, but now it's
(40:19):
modern times and she's comingafter children now.
Jen (40:23):
So it it's like a
Yasmine (40:24):
horror movie.
It's a horror.
It was a horror movie for sure.
Oh, it had some, like, a littlebit of religious aspects to it,
which always creeped me out inhorror movies and and even some
indigenous influence too.
They, burn Sage and use thecandles and things like that.
So it, it was a good movie.
I would I would recommend it ifyou like scary movies, it was
(40:46):
good.
Oh,
Jen (40:46):
you dunno yet that I, I only watch movies, horror
movies.
I do not go past 1975.
Yasmine (40:54):
Oh, like the old slashers and stuff.
Jen (40:56):
Yeah.
I only, yeah.
I am like such a, like, wha Icannot do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Once and 75 is pushing it alittle bit.
Okay.
I have to be very careful withyeah.
My step movies.
Black and black and white.
Oh, I can tell you, I can talk.
So dorky about all of the likemonster movies, the schlock
(41:21):
classics, the any, any classichorror movies.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Vincent Price.
I love the hammer, horror filmsthat kind of thing.
So
Yasmine (41:30):
yeah, I'm not as versed in those maybe slightly.
Like there's some of the morepopular ones that I've seen when
I was a teenager, I loved horrormovies.
That's all we watched, likeloved it.
It was, they were starting toget like weird and with like the
saw movies and stuff like that,like, but then crazy thing after
(41:52):
I had my kids, I could not dohorror for the longest time.
Could not do, like, I wouldstart crying.
I would have panic attacks, butmy kids wanted to watch them so
bad.
So slowly we started watchinglike the ones that, the teenager
ones that weren't too bad orwhatever.
So now I've evolved back tobeing able to watch LA on the
(42:14):
middle of the date, by myself ona night that my husbands not
gonna be home in, I messed up.
No oh, okay.
So I have a couple more fromaround the world and maybe I'll
do I think I wrote down three,so let's see what they're all.
Okay.
So this one's from Canada.
(42:35):
I thought that was Canada orfriends in the north.
Yeah.
There's a legend of a newlymarried woman who had just
finished making or just orderedher wedding dress.
So it's brand brand new.
Her husband died.
There's a year on this one, theBritish battle of Bridgeport.
(42:57):
Maybe I didn't write down theyear.
Okay.
So he, he died in the Britishbattle of Bridgeport.
Okay.
And rather than live withouthim, she went to the top of the
waterfalls.
They used to meet at wearingthis brand new wedding dress and
jumped into the raging waters ofthe waterfall.
(43:17):
So she didn't have to livewithout her love.
So sad.
Oh, sad.
And it said her spirit wanders,the surrounding woods, still
wearing this beautiful weddingdress.
That was.
Brand new.
They made a point to tell me itwas brand new a couple of times.
So that's why I keep repeatingthat.
Jen (43:37):
like, did you, did you forget?
Just
Yasmine (43:39):
so it was brand new.
That's very, it was a totalwaste of silk or whatever they
used anyway.
No, that's terrible.
Okay.
So now this waterfall, theydidn't say the name, but I
imagine it has a name andprobably has had a name since
back then, because a nearbywaterfall has been named French
(44:05):
shoot the LA name, bla, which iswhite lady waterfall to honor
the legend.
So that one's kinda simple.
Yeah.
Okay.
Jen (44:16):
Raise your hand.
Do you think her French wasbetter than mine?
Yasmine (44:21):
and mine I could do Spanish, but French is, and I
might accidentally put a Spanishtwist on stuff, so anyways.
Okay.
Chechnya oh, okay.
So there's a legend of, okay.
May hold her, the white lady inthis so I'm not, it's just the
(44:43):
legend of the white lady.
This one can be confirmed.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So per Chita of RA Rosen, Burkeat Rosenberg castle, she lived
from 1429 to 1476.
She was the daughter of Olrickof Rosenberg.
(45:04):
She was married to Jan of Lichand Stein in 1449.
So she was 20.
1429 to 14, 29, 20.
Yeah.
Okay.
Unfortunately, when her fatherrefused to pay her down, it
(45:25):
caused the couple to have a veryunhappy marriage.
The husband treated her verypoorly and it doesn't seem like
she was super nice to himeither.
He started, he started it forsure.
so on his deathbed, they hadthis long marriage, right?
He was dying of old age, likenothing weird.
(45:47):
Y on his deathbed asked forforgiveness of his treatment of
per Chito.
She refused to forgive him.
Oh, she said, Nope, absolutelynot.
And on his deathbed, he cursedher.
Jen (46:05):
That's fair.
Yasmine (46:07):
Yeah.
He cursed her.
I'm not admit too far.
right.
You're like, come on, I'm dying.
Forgive me please.
But no, she said absolutely not.
She knows her worth anyways.
so now she haunts his holdings.
It is in chess, ski, Cru lovecastle that she's seen most
(46:28):
often her unhappy marriage waschronicled in letters, sent to
her fathers and brothers.
These highly descriptivecolorful letters were passed
down to her family and stillsurvived today.
You can find them.
I did a little searching forthem, but I, I didn't really
come up with what I wanted.
So I might have to look at it alittle bit more, but I cannot
Jen (46:50):
believe my gosh.
It's so cool, right?
Yes.
Yasmine (46:55):
Okay.
So this story is very.
I know I'm giggling, but that'sjust the one
Jen (47:01):
well, not remember what legend I wanted to be true of.
And then I was like, wait aminute.
That's where I don't want her to
Yasmine (47:08):
Yeah, no.
So it's so interesting to methat the, basically the proof
survives to this day there'sother holdings of his that she's
been seen at let's try my handat pronunciation,
Jen (47:19):
like move so many places.
Right.
That's the
Yasmine (47:23):
part that like, I don't get there's crem, LA ginger do
Hardon and tele.
So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
It she's still tr traveling inher after life.
I mean, she was
Jen (47:42):
a strong woman, so yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, determined
Yasmine (47:46):
a absolutely determined.
Yeah.
So she's cursed.
Jen (47:52):
So he cursed.
So was his curse that she wouldhave to wander
Yasmine (47:58):
possibly that she would have to stay and not go to the
afterlife with him, so she'sgotta stay, but that's probably
what it was.
That's that he was like, well,you don't go to heaven, then you
stay here or whatever afterlife,Right.
Yeah.
Interesting.
(48:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So one, one more.
Well, I have two more.
We'll see how it goes.
Okay.
In the Philippines, very similarto the us.
I found they have lots ofstories of a lady in white.
But they have one in particularthat is the most popular.
The, that she's called the whitelady of ballot drive in Quizon
(48:43):
city.
Legend has it, but it's alonghaired woman in a white
dress and she died in a tragiccar accident on ballot drive.
These stories are told andretold actually by the taxi
drivers that work the, thegraveyard shift.
So one of the more popularstories is that she's walking
(49:04):
along and it's a foggy night andshe motions down, like, what do
you call that?
Hailing hails, a taxi.
Yes.
She hailed the taxi and the taxidriver.
That's not a normal place.
He would stop to pick up aperson.
Right.
But she was beautiful.
(49:24):
She was stunning.
And he had, he was compelled tostop.
Cool every time.
Yeah.
this the, what is that?
The pretty privilege.
pretty.
I like that.
That's so.
She gets in.
And when the driver goes to likedrive off checks his mirrors, he
checks his rear view mirror andher face is bloody and bruised.
(49:48):
Whoa.
And just like
Jen (49:50):
how she would've looked.
Yasmine (49:52):
And he abandons his taxi runs out of the taxi.
And I don't know, after that,but fully support that decision
yeah, I think that'd probably beme too, is the only way to it's
the only possible outcomeoutcome situation.
Yes.
I quit my whole job.
That's fine.
okay.
So there's also stories of solodrivers seeing her in her
(50:14):
injured face in their rear viewmirror.
Well, that was a solo driver,maybe other ones.
Jen (50:18):
You don't have to be a.
Maybe you don't have to stop,like you're picking her up kind
of thing
Yasmine (50:23):
maybe.
Yeah, yeah.
Or maybe those guys didn't leavetheir car and just, I dunno,
Jen (50:27):
I tell you if I, if, oh, if, oh gosh, if that happened to
me, I kid you not, I would joinher right there and afterlife
my, I I've truly feel like I amnot allowed to see anything
because I feel my heart may juststop.
Yes.
I'm so like I do that, like, I'mso jumpy that like, when you're
(50:50):
out somewhere, like, I don'tknow you're at target and you
have to go to the bathroom andinevitably like somebody, like,
you do that whole door thing.
Mm-hmm like, we're not expectingit.
I will jump, like literally dolike some weird like bunny ho
thing.
Oh no.
And it looks like I'm likesaluting you.
Cause I do this like hand thing,like it's so try to
Yasmine (51:11):
protect yourself.
Jen (51:15):
you ready to fight Jen?
Yes, my dad.
Oh my cause.
Get scared unintentionally allthe time I send, if there's
something in my hand, it's goingflying.
Yep.
It's a thing.
Yasmine (51:27):
I was
Jen (51:28):
go ahead.
No, I was just cause my dad, hewould say, cause like I never
scream.
Like I go silent and I just dolike this, like with my hands,
like after greeted you and donethe bunny hop, like the bizarre,
but my dad's like I'm all I canhope for is that they are so
stunned by what they have seen.
(51:49):
That they will just leave ifyou're ever like being attack
for real.
I
Yasmine (51:52):
don't.
Yeah.
I'm a screamer.
I do get scared very easily andI do scream.
I don't mean to, and it, everyman in my life, from my brothers
to my husband, now they just doit on purpose.
Oh.
And now my son has been on theaction.
Jen (52:14):
Oh, they love it.
Let's people know that you'relike that.
Oh, it's
Yasmine (52:17):
on.
Oh.
And I cannot help it.
My husband is a very quietWalker and he just, he would
just come up on me and I screamin the kitchen and he's like,
I'm in my own house.
Can I not just walk like aperson I'm like, please announce
yourself something, Russellsomething.
I dunno.
Jen (52:36):
We're gonna make like a cat, like a bell on or
something.
Yasmine (52:39):
Yes.
Cause he is a real quiet Walker.
Oh anyways.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Yeah, some accidents along thisroad are blamed on the lady.
Road.
So when bad things happen, theysay it's her fault.
Well, I mean,
Jen (52:56):
like I said, if I look in the rear view mirror, I see her,
I, my soul has left my body.
We are, I, don't not worriedabout that car.
So wreck.
Yasmine (53:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Jen (53:11):
There's a spider in my car.
I feel, same thing would happen.
yeah.
Yasmine (53:15):
I heard this statistic and now I can't remember exactly
what it was, but there areaccidents that happen that they
can't explain why, like theperson is by themselves in the
car and they die.
They don't know why.
And they're saying.
Like a bug or something, or likea bee or a spider in the car.
(53:37):
Because obviously like when thecar crashes either the bug dies
or it leaves or whatever lizardor something.
Yeah.
Jen (53:43):
But like when they can't figure out why somebody yeah.
Like ran off the side of theroad and stuff.
Yeah.
Yasmine (53:49):
They look at phone records and stuff like that.
It's not the phone.
Like,
Jen (53:54):
I, I mean, you get a big enough fighter in my car that
surprises me.
Yeah.
All bets are off.
I, I just I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't, yeah, that just me howI go out.
I, I hate them that much snakesare, are right next to that.
I'm terrified, but fighters,they win because I'm gonna see
(54:18):
them more often.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
So, yeah.
But Hm.
Creepy, right.
Oh, speaking of TikTok, we welloff mic.
We were talking about TikTok.
And so thanks today.
I was, I saw one and it was thisthis police officer that was
filming, his buddy.
Cause he came up and he wasstopped like in this center turn
lane.
(54:39):
It didn't look like it was verybusy, but he's like, outside of
his car, like, looking andstuff.
And so then the other guy'slike, what are you doing?
Is everything okay?
And it's a spider and the other,guy's like making fun of him.
And then they find the guy findsthe spider and it's like up, it
(54:59):
is very like, I mean, you're,that thing that you're, the
thing, the visor Uhhuh, it waslike up, against that at the
top.
And so, yeah.
And they show it and I mean, itlooked decent, it was a good
size cell phone.
So I'm like, through that guy'scell phone into my cell phone.
So I'm like.
And I got, yeah, he quit makingfun of him then, and
Yasmine (55:20):
I don't know what it is, but some people don't have
that like physical reaction tospiders that like that we do.
Some people don't
Jen (55:28):
have that granddaddy long legs.
Oh yeah, no, no.
I can't even handle that.
It
Yasmine (55:34):
makes me all clammy and I don't know, I don't want it.
I don't get it away from me.
Jen (55:40):
Yeah.
So yeah, behind that explanationis the point like I could.
Yeah.
Honestly,
Yasmine (55:47):
it
Jen (55:47):
makes sense where something like that could absolutely
happen.
Yeah.
All I can hope is that I hit thebrake instead of the gas I Don.
Yasmine (55:57):
Yeah.
I think on that, I'm gonna, I'mgonna end because I'm gonna do
the next discussion.
Yeah.
All.
Did I do the other one?
What do you think?
I dunno.
How are we doing on time?
I Don know.
I don't either.
Okay.
Well it's.
I think,
Jen (56:14):
should I do it?
I think you just do it now.
We've talked about it, do it.
Yeah.
Yasmine (56:18):
That's true.
One more.
So this one, right.
This one is actually in theUnited States.
Okay.
Altoona, Pennsylvania, I don'tknow if I'm saying that right.
If I'm not, I'm so sorry.
But it's English, so can'treally help too much there
anyways.
so there's a legend of she'scalled the white lady of whoopy
(56:38):
white lady of Whoopie whoopsy,the go whoopsy.
Okay.
So she haunts whoop son nook,whoops.
Wopsononock Mountain andBuckhorn mountain in the Western
part of Altoona.
(56:59):
So very specifically, no ideawhere that is.
So the story said that her andher husband were killed in a
terrible car accident, more caraccidents.
So sad.
Over the stretch of road calledthe devil's elbow, they fell
down the side of the mountainand passed away.
(57:22):
The legend says that she's beenseen looking for her husband on
foggy nights and even has beenpicked up as a hitchhiker.
Then again, when the driverlooks in the rear view mirror,
her react, her reflection is notseen and she always disappears
around devil's elbow.
So I know why, but I picked upthis one too.
(57:42):
It's got the whole rear viewmirror thing happening again,
right.
Where people actually stop topick her up and she's gone.
She's just not there.
So I thought that wasinteresting.
She doesn't, I didn't seeanything about her looking scary
in the mirror or anything likethat, but.
She rides back up or downwherever she's coming from to
(58:04):
the place where her, the carwent off the road.
Jen (58:07):
That is so sad, so sad and I to think, yeah, but that, I
like that better.
That she just disappears.
Yasmine (58:17):
Yeah.
I mean, she's going back.
Maybe she looked long enough andheading back.
I don't know.
Sounds sad, but yeah, so that'soh, that's the white lady, the
lady in white.
Nice.
Yeah.
Jen (58:30):
oh, I wonder, wonder why we all have, probably every
country, like, I wonder why thatis.
Cause there
Yasmine (58:38):
were so many, so many, and then it's interesting to me
that not only countries havethem, but like regions, like my
little town has their own ladyand white story.
Like yeah.
Just, and then they're passeddown orally to.
Kids as a warning tale or likedrivers as a, don't pick a pitch
(59:02):
hikers cuz it could be the ladyin white right.
you're on these long darkstretches of highway.
Yeah.
Car accidents, car accidents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So is generally like some kindof tragedy and grief.
But violence too.
Always sad.
Jen (59:21):
Right.
So, oh,
Yasmine (59:24):
oh
Jen (59:26):
too.
Totally different storiestonight.
Yeah.
That was absolutely love.
I love all things paranormal.
So I definitely wanna hear moreabout the the mining town.
Yasmine (59:37):
Yeah.
I'll have to do an episode onthat because it's a really
interesting,
Jen (59:40):
okay.
I would love that, so.
Okay.
So thank you everybody.
And again, remember if you wantto share your own personal story
or local.
I was trying to say that locallegend.
I was trying to combine likefolk and legend.
It didn't work.
Do you wanna share that with usand have us tell your story, or
(01:00:03):
if you are thinking you mightwanna come on and tell it to the
world yourself get in touchmavensofmisdeeds@gmail.com.
Everything else we are onTwitter, TikTok, Facebook,
Instagram.
Yep.
That's all of them.
And generally speaking, it wouldbe all just at mavens of
misdeeds.
And you will find us easily.
I'll also have links in the showdescription to all the web not
(01:00:26):
the website.
Well, we do have a website.
I knew I was forgettingsomething that is simple, that's
mavensofmisdeeds.com and I thinkthat's it.
Yasmine (01:00:37):
Yeah, I think
Jen (01:00:37):
so.
All that.
Okay.
Thanks for joining us.
Yes.
Hello everyone.
How are you?
So good talking to you againtoday?
Yes.
Jen (00:12):
So I have no idea what Yasmine has chosen to talk
about.
I know.
So it's gonna be a, a totalsurprise for me, which I love.
We didn't give ourselves muchtime like two days, couple of
days.
Yeah.
between recording our lastepisode and this one, but I am
so nerdy that I have notesstarted on a plethora of
subjects and highlighted booksand all these things.
(00:35):
So one that really stuck out tome is an interesting story
disappearance sea mystery andalso it's got politics.
Ooh, yes.
Yasmine (00:49):
Edgy.
Jen (00:50):
And it sort of takes place.
Like I said, it's a big mystery,but mostly we think it took
place around Nags Head, NorthCarolina, and I just for the
first time ever visited therewith my dad, we did the whole
history tour there.
Oh, cool.
About three weeks ago now.
So it was, I thought it was timeto bring this, this story out
(01:11):
into the light.
So I have titled this, theMysterious Fate of Theodosia
Burr.
Yasmine (01:20):
Oh, I have chills.
Oh my gosh.
I don't know.
I know just the very minimumabout her.
I'm so excited.
Jen (01:28):
Oh, well this is great.
And I didn't even think about,well, nevermind people haven't
gotten there in their head yet.
I'm not gonna go there.
So certain Broadway musical fansmight, have yeah.
This ring in their head now.
So I love this because itcombines local legend and lore
as well as a potentialhistorical true crime aspect.
(01:49):
So this was right up my alleyand to do a little bit of
background and get the.
Political part out of the way Iam not a ginormous fan of
politics, but I do love thehistory of our of our system and
of our country, how it gotstarted.
And especially when you havethings like this so many of you
(02:12):
history mavens will probablyknow the name, Aaron Burr, and
he was a junior.
He lived from 1756 to 1836 andhe was the third vice president
of the United States.
And he had an interesting way ofgetting there.
So basically him and good oldTJ, Thomas Jefferson tied in the
(02:37):
electoral college and theyhadn't really thought that one
through if that kind of thingwere to happen.
They also, hadn't reallyinstructed people to say which
they were voting for.
Like, are you voting for him tobe president or vice president?
So that was a whole thing thatthey had to figure out and fix,
(02:59):
for moving forward.
But obviously we know he did notend up being president So long
story short, he believed thathis longtime political nemesis
enemy, whatever AlexanderHamilton had influenced the
Federalist controlled house ofrepresentatives to have him in
the vice president slot insteadof as president.
(03:21):
And he definitely was not superrespected by Thomas Jefferson.
It was very clear that There washistory there, but it was also
very clear that Hamiltonprobably had great influence in
how he was perceived.
So it wasn't taken veryseriously by the president,
(03:42):
just, it wasn't a, wasn't a goodscene for him.
So he pretty well knows thathe's not gonna be renominated
for to run, for the next term,he's not gonna be on the ticket
as a vice president or, orotherwise.
So he so after this, so 1804, hewas nominated for governorship,
but he lost that too.
(04:04):
And he also believed that thatwas because of Hamilton and
which it probably was.
And so he challenges Hamilton toa duel.
Yes.
And you're like, It's a littlelate for duels, not too
terribly, but yeah, I mean, theyare illegal.
(04:24):
And they are illegal where theyare and they are illegal in New
York and New Jersey.
But he decides bird decides thatthey're gonna do it New Jersey,
because it's sort of lessillegal there.
Basically in that they're you,they're not gonna punish you as
badly as if you have it in NewYork.
(04:44):
So, so his name left me for justa second Hamilton agrees to this
and they go, and as we know, Ibelieve it was, yeah.
So on July 11th, 1804 Burr doesshoot Hamilton and he is gravely
injured.
He dies the next day from thoseinjuries.
(05:05):
So Burr is arrested and chargedwith treason and he is
ultimately acquitted of that.
Basically I think it, isn't itsomething about the country
wasn't in active war at thetime.
So treason wasn't an applicablecharge.
It was something
Yasmine (05:23):
like that.
Some loophole type
Jen (05:25):
thing.
Yeah.
And I was kinda like, why didthey even choose treason in the
first place?
Doesn't matter anyway, couldhave just gone for straight
murder or something.
I would've thought.
But anyway so he ends up selfexiling to Europe for four
years.
I imagine to let the, heat diedown a little bit.
Let someone else become thestory and move on, from from
him.
And so he stays in Europe for,until he returns to New York in
(05:49):
June of 1812.
So why am I talking about him?
Because his life is definitelyno mystery no mystery there.
So now I will introduce you tohis daughter.
Theodosia Burr she was born 1783and she was incredibly close to
her father.
I know that her mother had diedand she sort of took over being
(06:12):
sort of the, the lady of thehousehold.
I don't know exactly how earlyin her life her mother died.
So but anyway, she does that,her father dos on her, he makes
sure that she has an educationto rival any man, which of
course we know was unheard of.
For that, that time even if yourdad liked you he wasn't gonna
educate you but he doesn't dothat.
(06:35):
He absolutely makes sure.
And she is very well known forher intellect how sophisticated
she was in any situation you,would throw at her, she could
adapt to and come out on top.
And so, and also she was a lotof the newspapers of the time
described her as, stunning andbeautiful and, and all of those
(06:58):
things.
So I guess she's the wholepackage.
I don't.
Wow.
10 outta 10 10 outta 10 wouldrecommend.
Yes.
Oh goodness.
Anyway, so she, so his selfexile very hard on her because
of their closeness and so shedoes end up getting married to
the South Carolina.
Well, he would become quicklythe South Carolina governor
(07:21):
Joseph Austin.
They have a son who she namesAaron mm-hmm or Austin he's born
in may of 1802.
However, he dies of tropicalfever in 1812, and 1812 is not
going to be her year, well thatinto 1813.
(07:42):
So they'd said that she sufferedfrom, as they would call it
fragile health.
So Lord knows what that evenmeans.
It could be that she wasdepressed to some, mental
illness to, who knows, all womenare hysterical and even if
you're as smart as she is, soLord knows what that diagnosis
(08:04):
even means.
But no doubt.
She is very, very depressed overthe loss of her son.
And also that her father is hasbeen gone.
She hasn't had that supportsystem and she very much
supported him throughout histrial for treason, which much
like today drug on for a bitfrom the, from the date of the
duels and he was arrested.
(08:26):
So so she'd been under a lot ofstress and I think it's also
mentioned being the first ladyher husband being governor and
so a lot of pressure on her anda lot of stresses.
And then you add the death ofher son and, she's not in a good
place.
And so she hoping her fathergets there.
And so by the fall of 1812 he'sin New York and she's of course
(08:49):
in South Carolina in CharlestonI imagine.
Yeah.
And so.
He writes to her and I'll havelinks to some newspapers that
have the letters published thatsome letters that he had written
that they wrote back and forth,as well as her husband and her
wrote back and forth before theywere married.
Yeah, really cool.
And so anyway he's like, Hey,can I cheer you up?
(09:11):
I want you to come, visit me.
I think, change of scenery.
All of that would be, would begood for us to, actually be
together again and see eachother face to face.
Her husband is not big on thisidea and he's got good reason to
be 18, 12 ring a bell the war of1812.
So it's not a great time for youto be traveling by sea because
(09:32):
well, yeah, the British werethere and they, you had that so
you had the risk of, of, of badthings happening.
So you're sort of, you're.
Tail end of hurricane season.
Hm, pretty sure.
I know October starts hurricaneseason, so this I haven't gotten
(09:52):
to the date yet, but so I thinkstorms are a possibility, well,
they're always possibility onthe sea, but I'm pretty sure
you're in prime time.
Or at least the tail end ofprime time for for tropical
storms and that kind of thing.
So that's not good.
And he's not gonna be able to gowith her because he's governor
and there's a war of 1812happening he's busy.
Right.
(10:13):
And so he's, not loving all ofthose things and of course these
papers of the day, verysensational, so who knows, but
they say he had, just a, aoverwhelming sense of doom about
the, the whole thing, the wholetrip.
So they try to oh, and piratesalso not thrilled because yes,
(10:34):
we have, the British or, and allof this, we have storms and we
have pirates.
So so her dad and him try tomitigate some of the risk.
Her husband decides he, hechooses the ship that she's
going to get on.
And it is happily called thePatriot and it is known for its
(10:54):
reliability.
It's speed.
And it, it's got a, a good trackrecord.
Her dad finds a friend of his adoctor I believe, who agrees to
make the, the trip with her.
So she won't be by herself, soon.
And it's kind of weird this alleverywhere.
It was either December 30th orDecember 31st, whichever of 1812
(11:18):
she boards Patriot, which was aschooner at Charleston Harbor.
And basically she, along withthe crew.
and all the other passengerswere never seen again.
Yasmine (11:31):
That quickly.
Jen (11:35):
Oh my goodness.
But obviously, I don't know.
And I even had a note here couldlook up about how long would
that have taken to have gottento New York?
I didn't remember, but anyway,so I don't know.
In 1812 on a Schooner, I don'tknow how long that would've
taken you to get fromCharleston, South Carolina, up
to, to New York.
But,
Yasmine (11:55):
well, I don't know how big a schooner is, but I'm
pretty sure that that they stayand they could still see the
shore.
So they wouldn't have been thatfar out.
I don't think, especially ifyou're just going north, you're
not going across anything.
Jen (12:09):
See that's one of the, that's gonna be one of the
really cool theories.
The one that.
Well, I don't know if I wannabelieve it or not.
That'd be kind of dark with me.
So anyways so after theappropriate time, I think I did
read somewhere like after acouple of weeks and there had
been no word, okay.
And they start to like, eh, thisisn't great.
(12:30):
I feel, this isn't, this, thisisn't great.
So ultimately though the ship isdefinitely overdue for sure.
And they, they choose, it saidthat her father and husband,
choose to believe that they werejust lost at sea, a storm
happened.
And and that was that.
(12:51):
And I actually did find, butthen it's written upside down
cause I'm a genius like that.
Let's see.
Cause I did actually find fromin a log book from another, a
nearby.
Ship that where the heck did Iwrote it down?
(13:12):
Anyway, I wrote it downsomewhere.
I'm gonna find it now somewhereout of order.
But anyway, they did figure outthat on like, oh man, maybe two
or three days after it set sail,there was a massive storm.
And so, and it was just likejust off the coast of Cape
Hatteras.
And so, that could definitely bewhat happened, So we do know
(13:40):
there was a storm, but I mean,then other people are like, but
that ship and other ships, theydidn't, have any issues.
So, who knows, but that is thereally boring theory.
Yasmine (13:54):
And, and probably the one that is more likely
Jen (13:58):
Occam's Razor, it's probably what happens.
But anyway, Yasmine,
Yasmine (14:00):
sorry.
I wanna hear the ones.
No, that's where I say this isgonna be a little bit dark.
So I'm kinda like, I, I, yeah, Ichoose to also be with her
husband and father.
That probably is what happened,but it not, there's a lot of
compelling evidence.
I gotta say.
That could mean something else.
(14:21):
So then I freaking, yeah, Iwrote it down right there.
Anyway, about the weather.
So in 1820 a I'm calling him aretired pirate.
I don't know what else you callthem.
He told an Alabama newspaper.
That he and his crew hadplundered the Patriot and killed
(14:43):
everyone on board.
Why did he say that?
Right.
So more to come on.
Some of that then 1833, 2pirates, who were ultimately
sentenced to death.
They were on trial in Norfolk,Virginia, and they confessed to
(15:04):
luring the ship out onto therocks in Nags, Head, North
Carolina.
And then once the ship, ofcourse is basically run a ground
or it's, it's stuck, theyboarded the ship.
They they plunder it.
They do all that stuff thatpirates do.
And this gentleman's name was,this pirate was Benjamin
(15:27):
burdock, bur Nope, Burdick.
and he says that he vividlyremembers Theodosia.
Wow.
Because he was in charge ofhelping while making all of them
walk the plank and ultimatelydrown.
(15:47):
And that, he says she was thelast one off and her face has
haunted him all these years,even though he had, been a part
of killing lots and lots ofpeople, because he was actually
part of a famous pirate.
John Lafe.
Yeah, that was French.
And I'm sure it's supposed to besaid just like that in case he
(16:08):
was part of his game, so, oh,wow.
So, so this is a deathbedconfession for, for him dying at
an S house in Michigan at this.
So anyway, so he is saying heremembers her because the, the
look on her face, she was justutterly, just terrified.
(16:31):
And I would imagine being thelast one, I mean, I'm always one
of those weirdos, like I willvolunteer even though, like in
speech class or something youjust don't want to, do'm always
the one just like, let's just,let's just do this.
Like I can't sit here and watcheverybody, like deal.
I gotta just get this over withand move on with my life.
(16:53):
So that probably would've been,I don't know, I could see me
doing that and that situationcan't last that's okay.
Just too much.
Can't do this psychologicaltorture.
And he also said he vividlyremembers that she was clutching
a Bible and did so as shedrowned and disappeared between
the waves.
So many historians say that theytotally reject.
(17:16):
His whole story because her andher father were not known to be
religious.
However, I say to that many,many people get religion when
they know they are facing death.
Right.
So I wouldn't rule that out justbased on that right.
Personally.
I mean, I see what you mean.
Jen (17:37):
Yeah.
So I'm not killing the legend onthat.
So a second less weird, it'sweird and less likely, but and
by the way, I get a lot of thisfrom library of Congress.
So it's, as legit as it can befor legend So this one is just
whatever, but I'm gonna mentionit anyway.
So a female stranger.
(17:59):
Is spotted in a graveyard at St.
Paul's Episcopal church.
Now this is in Alexandria,Virginia.
And so this legend says thatshe's an ill appearing woman and
there's a man with her and shecalls him her husband.
And this is happening in 1816.
So she is like I said, illappearing.
So she's sick.
(18:19):
So I'm imagining a doctor iscalled mm-hmm and they both
refuse to give their names tothis doctor.
She ends up passing away shortlythereafter of nobody recorded
what the illness was and legend,of course, and still today,
local swear that that was Johnand Theodosia Austin.
(18:40):
So ridiculous.
Yasmine (18:43):
Wow.
Yeah.
I mean that's a littlefarfetched.
Yeah.
Jen (18:47):
So I had to mention it cause you're gonna see it and
it's whatever.
But anyway, so moving on fromthat, that's not my favorite.
Now 1869.
This is cool.
So Dr.
William pool and his daughterthey make a, he's basically
vacationing, summering, whateveron max head.
And so he makes a house call toa patient.
(19:12):
Obviously this wouldn't besomeone like that.
He would know.
So he's never met her before.
He's called to assist the womannamed Holly man, who I believes
in her seventies.
And so she lives in a verymodest home, nothing fancy.
She is not a wealthy woman byany stretch of the imagination
she's widowed.
And so as soon as they enter,they are struck by this
(19:33):
gorgeous, beautifully framed,and obviously professionally
done full portrait of a strikingyoung woman about, I think they
say about 25 years.
Okay.
And so Mrs.
Mann says that her late spousehad found it in the cabin of an
abandoned vessel that haddrifted to shore mm-hmm they're
(19:57):
in nags, head at this isplausible at this point.
Okay.
Okay.
Dr.
Pool ends up taking it aspayment for his services.
Also, also also bit saw analternate version of that, which
I feel makes more sense cuz I'mlike, that's a douche move right
there.
Cuz this lady has nothing andshe's had this painting for,
(20:18):
this is 1869.
She's saying she's had it atleast 50 years.
Yeah.
So I saw, but so I did seeanother one made me feel better
and I'm adopting this one.
And it basically said that thedoctor, this woman had never
seen a physician, like she hadmade it to 70 some years old and
had never seen a physician,which you probably know that's
possible then the point.
and he actually is able toreally help her.
(20:42):
And she also takes the liking tohis daughter who, he's brought
with him and as she gets to knowhim, as he's treating her mm-hmm
and she ends up gifting theportrait to the daughter.
And
Yasmine (20:54):
I like, oh yeah, I like that.
Yeah.
I like
Jen (20:56):
it better.
I'm going with it.
Yeah.
So so he said, so he takes thispainting and he ends up showing
it to members of the Burr familyand they couldn't confirm or
deny that this was a portrait ofTheodosia.
So but this is said to be theabsolute best evidence of the
(21:16):
pirate theory now.
Such an awesome, fascinatingarticle as all these historical
newspapers are, but not a supersensationalist one that I really
liked and I'll have the link toit.
And if anybody doesn't knowabout the chronicling America
project through library ofCongress where it has all of the
newspapers that you can searchfor totally free and they have
(21:39):
great search tool you can reallynarrow it down.
It's amazing.
Highly recommend.
But anyway, so the, so this isfrom the 1906 edition of the San
Francisco call and, and thisstory stayed in the news,
literally like, like this long,if you go to search anywhere
from 18, 13 mm-hmm and I stoppedat 1906, but I know there was
(22:02):
stuff at least in 1909.
I had like 60 pages where hername is mentioned, so wow.
Yasmine (22:08):
They did not give up.
Jen (22:09):
Looking for her.
So this is like, this was a bigpay deal during, the time.
So let's see, I said the name ofthe paper.
Oh.
So it reports that this portraitwas donated by Dr.
Pool's daughter.
Who of course I failed to everwrite her name down, sorry.
And was hung in the all ofhistory of North Carolina.
Yasmine (22:32):
So it still exists this painting.
Jen (22:35):
I'm not sure where, so maybe so maybe.
Yes, that's cool.
That's cool.
And yeah, so anyway so over theyears kind of, as I'd mentioned,
there had been several piratedeath bed confessions about
Patriot, and they were reportedin, these newspapers, they would
(22:55):
do article or interviews with,with these guys.
So one of a few of the also justsuper wild theories said that
she was held captive in Bermudaand forced to be like a pirate
mistres.
And that ultimately she waskilled by a member of, oh Lord,
I gotta say his name again.
Jean LA rewind Jean LA afterbeing captured and refusing a
(23:22):
Pirate's advances and upsidedown again was trying save
paper.
And it's just funny.
Let's see.
Oh, more on the portrait.
So that article that Imentioned, the San Francisco
call and like, so I'll have thelink to it.
It was commissioned, they doknow there was a portrait done
(23:43):
of her so that they're, why thisgained traction.
And it was commissioned in 1802by her father.
The painter was a I don't knowif he was an acquaintance, a
friend, whatever.
And the only name that I saw wasVandel.
So this, kind of lens credenceto the, the, the ghost ship
theory, the pirate, looting it,and then just letting it letting
(24:07):
go.
And I do know that that Benjaminverdict pirate that I talked
about that, had confessed andsaw clutching the Bible and it
haunted him that pirate.
He had mentioned that, I mean,he specifically said that they
had, and I don't do boats, so Idon't know.
I don't remember.
But anyway, they had like tackedstuff down and whatever, so to
(24:31):
before they left and I don'tknow if that made it just
continue.
Do its thing or, or what, but hewas that specific about what
they, after plundering the shipand killing, the people then
they basically did likemaintenance stuff on the ship to
make it, like they didn't sinkit on purpose, I guess.
(24:53):
Oh, okay.
Like maybe that was what thatwas doing.
Maybe, maybe now that I thinkabout it.
Yeah.
I don't know both.
So I don't know, but you canread the full, very long article
that I link to.
I'm gonna link a couple of'emactually.
And they've got really greatgraphics too.
One is a, a lithograph orwhatever of depicting Theodosia
(25:14):
walking the plank and drawing ofthe ship and stuff.
Oh, wow.
Actually a pretty, pretty welldone of what this, this pirate.
Retired pirate, excuse me, isdescribing.
So let's see.
Oh, so how also they talkedabout lowering ships to their
(25:35):
doom on the rocks and then beingable to under, so this is not a
hundred percent, so this fallsunder the, the lore kind of
thing.
But people believe since he kindof mentions it, that it's very
possible.
So essentially NAS headinhabitants early, early,
inhabitants, they would use thevery treacherous briefs and the
(25:58):
rocks, all of that to lure shipsvia flashing Lanard.
So what they would do is theywould tie a lantern around a
horse's neck, and then theywould hobble the horse's legs,
causing it to limp and reducingits restricting the horse.
Right.
So now, and outer banks, all ofthat.
(26:23):
You've got the ginormous sanddunes.
And I would imagine back in thisday they were like really
ginormous.
Yeah.
And so the effect that thatwould have as the horse tries to
navigate in all of theserestrictions and whatever the
horse would kind of stumble overthe sand dunes and it would make
it appear like the light, theLanter would Bob up and down
(26:46):
like a ship at sea.
And that sneaking on the darkocean open ocean, they could
trick people into still thinkingthey weren't in anywhere near
shore.
Yasmine (27:00):
Oh my goodness.
That's sneaky.
yeah.
Jen (27:04):
I was just like, what?
So, wow.
Yasmine (27:09):
Yeah, that's what I got.
Wow.
crazy story.
I had no idea.
That's wow.
Fascinating is
Jen (27:20):
I thought that was, that was really neat.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yasmine (27:26):
Well, good job.
That's awesome.
Okay.
So I was all inspired last week.
I think I'm gonna turn my lighton really quick.
Okay.
Jen (27:39):
My light so weird in here.
It's like passing shadows andI'm like, there's my face.
Yasmine (27:44):
So I think I put on backwards.
Yep.
I sure did.
Okay.
So I got inspired last week, soI think I mentioned, I put it
out there to like my localFacebook group to see if there
was any local superstitions.
(28:05):
Well, not so much heavy on thesuperstitions, but really heavy
on the ghost stories.
yeah.
so there's quite a lot ofcontent that I need to go
through and I need to kind ofsuss out a little bit more.
Right.
But there were.
(28:27):
A couple of stories inparticular that came up more
than once and for like differentsurrounding areas, which were
like ladies and white.
Oh.
So we have two out here on twostretches of road that are
supposedly ladies and white.
And then I don't know if you'veever heard of Calco ghost town,
(28:48):
Calco mining town.
It's a minor historical landmarkout here.
But I'll go into that a littlebit more.
So I'm gonna tell a few storiesand I'm gonna try my best, not
to look at my notes too much cuzI wrote'em out.
I know the stories so, okay.
Do you have any, are there anyladies and white out where you
live any like stories like that?
Jen (29:09):
On.
Nothing that I know that we do.
Let me just say we have I'msure.
Yeah.
Ladies and white and it's eitherthat, or it's ladies and black.
Okay.
But yeah, I came
Yasmine (29:20):
across a few of those
Jen (29:21):
too.
But nothing that super stuckwith me that sticks with me,
around here.
Yeah.
I know that we do have some likeroad related, like yeah.
Kind of things, but but yeah,
Yasmine (29:34):
yeah.
Not in particular.
That's that's okay.
So I'm gonna tell my local onesfirst.
But
Jen (29:39):
I don't know.
I think I've told people thoughthat like, I repel goes and
stuff.
So do you so I, cause I think Iwanna see one, like actually see
it, like, I know my is haunted,but I've not actually like, had
something appear.
Yeah.
Yasmine (29:58):
I'm like, I'm
Jen (29:58):
good from the same things.
I'm like, I'm OK.
Just knowing you're here.
Yeah,
Yasmine (30:02):
that's fine.
It's just, I feel your presence.
You're good.
We're good.
so I'm gonna tell a couple thatare local and then a couple of
inter not international global.
So from other places in theworld What I found was generally
the ladies, a young woman thatdies in an accident or by her
own hand because of some kind ofgrief sometimes involving her
(30:25):
children or new fiance orhusband, sometimes a white dress
is a wedding dress.
Other times it's a nightg gown.
It just happens to be what she'swearing.
And in many instances, her dressis also wet.
So I'm just kind of, oh, in likeinteresting.
Many of these legends can betraced to women we can verify
(30:45):
lived, which was really cool.
Oh, that's
Jen (30:49):
usual.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh,
Yasmine (30:50):
this is.
Other origins are lost withtime.
Waters also seem to be a commontheme.
Bodies of water.
Almost always seem to inspireour imaginations as beautiful as
they can be.
They also held the power of lifeand death within them.
So it's very interesting.
Okay.
So here in the deserts ofSouthern California, we have a
(31:11):
lot of long stretches of road.
You see'em in movies and thingslike that.
Death valley, where you can seefor miles, and that is not
uncommon people drive.
Oh yeah, no, no mountains outhere.
Not until, I mean, you gottadrive a little to get up to the
mountains and people drive outhere.
Like they're the only ones onthe road because sometimes most
(31:32):
of the time they are.
But it's like.
So some of these roads are knownto be dangerous.
Yeah.
And I think that's inspired,especially some of the local
ghost stories for sure.
Okay.
All right.
So, okay.
So the one, actually, I don'twanna triangulate my position
too, too much.
right.
But there is a road not too faraway from where I live that it's
(31:56):
about a five mile stretch and itactually is within city limits.
There's like apartments on thisroad and a gas station.
And, it's well-populated, whichwas interesting because a lot of
people that jumped on theFacebook post had said they had
seen it.
So that's really interesting.
(32:16):
Oh, wow.
So she has said to be a youngwoman in white.
Oh.
who does not walk, but floatsalong the side.
And then when you kind of makelike in passing by you look
back, she's gone.
So she's along this this road.
And she said to be like, she hadan, there was an accident, a
tragic accident, and ha is howshe died in her soul stays
(32:39):
there.
So there's actually two of thesestories, which are very similar.
Okay.
But just two different roads,which I thought was weird.
I don't know.
That's kind of random.
So I do drive a lot by myself,so I try not to think about them
too much.
right.
Especially at night.
So so yeah, and then the otherone, I mentioned Calco ghost
town and she's rumored to haunt.
(33:03):
Calco ghost town is in YMO it'sin death valley.
It was an old mining town thatwas bought and restored by have
you heard of Knottsberry farm?
I have heard of that.
So the owner of Knottsberry farmactually put like$700,000 into
this little random shacks thatwas a mining town and made it an
(33:26):
attraction.
So I thought that was kind ofcool is neat.
Jen (33:29):
That's something I would love.
Yasmine (33:31):
Yeah, they've restored it and they have events there
now, and it's so crazy.
I've lived out here my wholelife.
My brothers have gone to fieldtrips there.
I've never been, so maybe it'ssomething I make a point of
going, like, I don't know howthat happens, but I've never
been so and the woman in whiteshe's been seen.
Oh, go.
So, okay.
She's been seen wandering theperimeter of the town.
(33:56):
and the cemetery, the cemeteryhas about 120 to 200 people that
have been buried there.
Oh, wow.
And she doesn't speak to anyone.
She doesn't interact.
She just wanders.
So, oh, I might have to do alittle bit more on Calco later
because there's a lot there.
So maybe I'll go visit and then,oh, that would be awesome.
(34:17):
Do a whole nother.
Yes.
Yeah, that'd be really cool.
Okay.
So another legend I grew uphearing was LA yo, so that is
Spanish or Spanish for theweeping woman.
Okay.
In.
Okay.
And I'm gonna try to put thisdown because not only did I
(34:39):
write, like do my research andeverything on it, but I watched
the movie that came out in like2019, I think it was Valona so
okay.
So in Mexico, there wereindigenous people there, the
Spanish came over, theycolonized and they created towns
and but they also, they createdthe class system that's there.
(35:01):
So I think that's what I'mgetting at.
This woman was like a beautifulMexican woman, but she was
considered low class.
So even though she turned theheads of everyone she passed by
and she had many suitors andthings like that she was still a
part of the low class.
Okay.
I, I'm not sure how, but shecaught the eye of a higher class
(35:22):
rancher in the area.
And he decided he wanted toleave his wealth behind because
you could only go up.
Oh wait.
No, you could only go down.
You can go up.
Gotcha.
So he couldn't bring her up withhim.
You had to go down to be withher, which stinks.
I know.
Terrible.
Yeah.
So sad.
So they created a, they, createda humble home for themselves
(35:45):
near a river and they had abeautiful life.
They loved each other.
They had two kids.
All was good in the hood.
Well, his his family called himback to help them with some
business endeavor, something,maybe someone, his family died,
something like that.
Right.
So he was pulled away for a timeand it was supposed to be a very
(36:07):
short time, but weeks turnedinto months, turned into years
and he was gone.
So there's a couple differentversions of this story.
One involves him just straightup cheating on her.
Didn't leave.
Didn't go anywhere.
Just, she discovered him in thearms of a younger woman.
And the other version is thathe's called away and she sees
(36:29):
him, she's walking to town oneday with her kids.
She sees him coming down theroad.
She doesn't know it's him atfirst, but he's with this new
woman.
Oh yeah.
And he tells her, yeah.
So, and she's younger.
Of course she always, she hasto.
Right, right.
Yeah.
But she's of like the high classor whatever.
So he gets his old life backtoo, the luxury and all that
(36:51):
stuff, calls him back.
And he tells her, I miss my kidsand I'm gonna take them.
Oh.
So I will give you to tomorrowto say goodbye, and I'm gonna
come back and I'm gonna takethem.
And.
He leaves, they leave and she'sso distraught.
She's so upset.
She does the unimaginable.
(37:13):
She takes her children down tothe river and she drowns them.
She's in a fit of rage and griefand despair.
Right.
They drown, she drowns them whenshe comes too, when she realizes
what she's done, she then drownsherself.
There's no other choice, but shedrowns herself.
Her spirit doesn't make it tothe, I don't know really what to
(37:38):
heaven to the gates, to the nextlife because they tell her she
has to bring the souls of herchildren with her.
So her spirit is left forever.
Wandering, looking for,searching for weeping or looking
for the souls of her children.
Okay.
That's that's the
Jen (37:58):
story I was gonna say, yeah, I have questions.
Yeah.
Yasmine (38:01):
Yeah.
Lots of questions.
Okay.
That's the story.
Now what we were told as kidsokay.
Here's the other part of it.
We're told this scary storyaround a, the fire pit or,
whatever.
And we're told that the weepingwoman that LA you have to be
(38:21):
inside the house as a kid beforedark, because Laona is gonna
take your soul.
You
Jen (38:28):
kid will do at this point.
Woman's tired.
Yasmine (38:32):
She wants, right.
She's just gonna take anybody.
Because at this point she's beenlooking so long.
She's just gonna take you cuzyou've been outside.
Now.
The other side of it is you haveto be good because if you're
bad, we'll leave you outside tobe taken.
Jen (38:49):
Oh, this is still having like Krampus vibes and all of
those one of things,
Yasmine (38:53):
Yeah.
Right.
Krampus.
Yeah.
It sounds like that
Jen (38:58):
lo seems to come about for the sole purpose of terrifying
Yasmine (39:02):
children.
Yes.
Getting your children to behave.
Jen (39:05):
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
The Inuit have so many that arerevolve around keeping kids safe
because obviously they're rightthere at this horribly ice cold
ocean right.
And really dangerous, conditionsin the Antarctic and all this.
So their legends are super scaryand revolve a lot around, water
(39:29):
yeah.
To keep kids.
So it's really, it's reallycool.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Yasmine (39:33):
It, well, and it's so crazy too, because kids up until
they're like.
Well mine up until they werelike seven or eight, because we
didn't do like swimming lessonsor anything like that.
Mm-hmm they could not swim.
And so they were scared to gointo the water by themselves.
They're scared to go outside bythemselves, things like that.
Yeah.
So you're playing on thatalready established fear.
(39:57):
I think I was told that by anaunt or something like that.
Not necessarily my mom, butyeah, so that's the kind of the
story that we grew up with.
So scary.
I, yeah, and then I watched thatmovie today and it's like a
modern, it's not a modern take.
You still have the, the story ofLidon as the same, but now it's
(40:19):
modern times and she's comingafter children now.
Jen (40:23):
So it it's like a
Yasmine (40:24):
horror movie.
It's a horror.
It was a horror movie for sure.
Oh, it had some, like, a littlebit of religious aspects to it,
which always creeped me out inhorror movies and and even some
indigenous influence too.
They, burn Sage and use thecandles and things like that.
So it, it was a good movie.
I would I would recommend it ifyou like scary movies, it was
(40:46):
good.
Oh,
Jen (40:46):
you dunno yet that I, I only watch movies, horror
movies.
I do not go past 1975.
Yasmine (40:54):
Oh, like the old slashers and stuff.
Jen (40:56):
Yeah.
I only, yeah.
I am like such a, like, wha Icannot do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Once and 75 is pushing it alittle bit.
Okay.
I have to be very careful withyeah.
My step movies.
Black and black and white.
Oh, I can tell you, I can talk.
So dorky about all of the likemonster movies, the schlock
(41:21):
classics, the any, any classichorror movies.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Vincent Price.
I love the hammer, horror filmsthat kind of thing.
So
Yasmine (41:30):
yeah, I'm not as versed in those maybe slightly.
Like there's some of the morepopular ones that I've seen when
I was a teenager, I loved horrormovies.
That's all we watched, likeloved it.
It was, they were starting toget like weird and with like the
saw movies and stuff like that,like, but then crazy thing after
(41:52):
I had my kids, I could not dohorror for the longest time.
Could not do, like, I wouldstart crying.
I would have panic attacks, butmy kids wanted to watch them so
bad.
So slowly we started watchinglike the ones that, the teenager
ones that weren't too bad orwhatever.
So now I've evolved back tobeing able to watch LA on the
(42:14):
middle of the date, by myself ona night that my husbands not
gonna be home in, I messed up.
No oh, okay.
So I have a couple more fromaround the world and maybe I'll
do I think I wrote down three,so let's see what they're all.
Okay.
So this one's from Canada.
(42:35):
I thought that was Canada orfriends in the north.
Yeah.
There's a legend of a newlymarried woman who had just
finished making or just orderedher wedding dress.
So it's brand brand new.
Her husband died.
There's a year on this one, theBritish battle of Bridgeport.
(42:57):
Maybe I didn't write down theyear.
Okay.
So he, he died in the Britishbattle of Bridgeport.
Okay.
And rather than live withouthim, she went to the top of the
waterfalls.
They used to meet at wearingthis brand new wedding dress and
jumped into the raging waters ofthe waterfall.
(43:17):
So she didn't have to livewithout her love.
So sad.
Oh, sad.
And it said her spirit wanders,the surrounding woods, still
wearing this beautiful weddingdress.
That was.
Brand new.
They made a point to tell me itwas brand new a couple of times.
So that's why I keep repeatingthat.
Jen (43:37):
like, did you, did you forget?
Just
Yasmine (43:39):
so it was brand new.
That's very, it was a totalwaste of silk or whatever they
used anyway.
No, that's terrible.
Okay.
So now this waterfall, theydidn't say the name, but I
imagine it has a name andprobably has had a name since
back then, because a nearbywaterfall has been named French
(44:05):
shoot the LA name, bla, which iswhite lady waterfall to honor
the legend.
So that one's kinda simple.
Yeah.
Okay.
Jen (44:16):
Raise your hand.
Do you think her French wasbetter than mine?
Yasmine (44:21):
and mine I could do Spanish, but French is, and I
might accidentally put a Spanishtwist on stuff, so anyways.
Okay.
Chechnya oh, okay.
So there's a legend of, okay.
May hold her, the white lady inthis so I'm not, it's just the
(44:43):
legend of the white lady.
This one can be confirmed.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So per Chita of RA Rosen, Burkeat Rosenberg castle, she lived
from 1429 to 1476.
She was the daughter of Olrickof Rosenberg.
(45:04):
She was married to Jan of Lichand Stein in 1449.
So she was 20.
1429 to 14, 29, 20.
Yeah.
Okay.
Unfortunately, when her fatherrefused to pay her down, it
(45:25):
caused the couple to have a veryunhappy marriage.
The husband treated her verypoorly and it doesn't seem like
she was super nice to himeither.
He started, he started it forsure.
so on his deathbed, they hadthis long marriage, right?
He was dying of old age, likenothing weird.
(45:47):
Y on his deathbed asked forforgiveness of his treatment of
per Chito.
She refused to forgive him.
Oh, she said, Nope, absolutelynot.
And on his deathbed, he cursedher.
Jen (46:05):
That's fair.
Yasmine (46:07):
Yeah.
He cursed her.
I'm not admit too far.
right.
You're like, come on, I'm dying.
Forgive me please.
But no, she said absolutely not.
She knows her worth anyways.
so now she haunts his holdings.
It is in chess, ski, Cru lovecastle that she's seen most
(46:28):
often her unhappy marriage waschronicled in letters, sent to
her fathers and brothers.
These highly descriptivecolorful letters were passed
down to her family and stillsurvived today.
You can find them.
I did a little searching forthem, but I, I didn't really
come up with what I wanted.
So I might have to look at it alittle bit more, but I cannot
Jen (46:50):
believe my gosh.
It's so cool, right?
Yes.
Yasmine (46:55):
Okay.
So this story is very.
I know I'm giggling, but that'sjust the one
Jen (47:01):
well, not remember what legend I wanted to be true of.
And then I was like, wait aminute.
That's where I don't want her to
Yasmine (47:08):
Yeah, no.
So it's so interesting to methat the, basically the proof
survives to this day there'sother holdings of his that she's
been seen at let's try my handat pronunciation,
Jen (47:19):
like move so many places.
Right.
That's the
Yasmine (47:23):
part that like, I don't get there's crem, LA ginger do
Hardon and tele.
So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
It she's still tr traveling inher after life.
I mean, she was
Jen (47:42):
a strong woman, so yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, determined
Yasmine (47:46):
a absolutely determined.
Yeah.
So she's cursed.
Jen (47:52):
So he cursed.
So was his curse that she wouldhave to wander
Yasmine (47:58):
possibly that she would have to stay and not go to the
afterlife with him, so she'sgotta stay, but that's probably
what it was.
That's that he was like, well,you don't go to heaven, then you
stay here or whatever afterlife,Right.
Yeah.
Interesting.
(48:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So one, one more.
Well, I have two more.
We'll see how it goes.
Okay.
In the Philippines, very similarto the us.
I found they have lots ofstories of a lady in white.
But they have one in particularthat is the most popular.
The, that she's called the whitelady of ballot drive in Quizon
(48:43):
city.
Legend has it, but it's alonghaired woman in a white
dress and she died in a tragiccar accident on ballot drive.
These stories are told andretold actually by the taxi
drivers that work the, thegraveyard shift.
So one of the more popularstories is that she's walking
(49:04):
along and it's a foggy night andshe motions down, like, what do
you call that?
Hailing hails, a taxi.
Yes.
She hailed the taxi and the taxidriver.
That's not a normal place.
He would stop to pick up aperson.
Right.
But she was beautiful.
(49:24):
She was stunning.
And he had, he was compelled tostop.
Cool every time.
Yeah.
this the, what is that?
The pretty privilege.
pretty.
I like that.
That's so.
She gets in.
And when the driver goes to likedrive off checks his mirrors, he
checks his rear view mirror andher face is bloody and bruised.
(49:48):
Whoa.
And just like
Jen (49:50):
how she would've looked.
Yasmine (49:52):
And he abandons his taxi runs out of the taxi.
And I don't know, after that,but fully support that decision
yeah, I think that'd probably beme too, is the only way to it's
the only possible outcomeoutcome situation.
Yes.
I quit my whole job.
That's fine.
okay.
So there's also stories of solodrivers seeing her in her
(50:14):
injured face in their rear viewmirror.
Well, that was a solo driver,maybe other ones.
Jen (50:18):
You don't have to be a.
Maybe you don't have to stop,like you're picking her up kind
of thing
Yasmine (50:23):
maybe.
Yeah, yeah.
Or maybe those guys didn't leavetheir car and just, I dunno,
Jen (50:27):
I tell you if I, if, oh, if, oh gosh, if that happened to
me, I kid you not, I would joinher right there and afterlife
my, I I've truly feel like I amnot allowed to see anything
because I feel my heart may juststop.
Yes.
I'm so like I do that, like, I'mso jumpy that like, when you're
(50:50):
out somewhere, like, I don'tknow you're at target and you
have to go to the bathroom andinevitably like somebody, like,
you do that whole door thing.
Mm-hmm like, we're not expectingit.
I will jump, like literally dolike some weird like bunny ho
thing.
Oh no.
And it looks like I'm likesaluting you.
Cause I do this like hand thing,like it's so try to
Yasmine (51:11):
protect yourself.
Jen (51:15):
you ready to fight Jen?
Yes, my dad.
Oh my cause.
Get scared unintentionally allthe time I send, if there's
something in my hand, it's goingflying.
Yep.
It's a thing.
Yasmine (51:27):
I was
Jen (51:28):
go ahead.
No, I was just cause my dad, hewould say, cause like I never
scream.
Like I go silent and I just dolike this, like with my hands,
like after greeted you and donethe bunny hop, like the bizarre,
but my dad's like I'm all I canhope for is that they are so
stunned by what they have seen.
(51:49):
That they will just leave ifyou're ever like being attack
for real.
I
Yasmine (51:52):
don't.
Yeah.
I'm a screamer.
I do get scared very easily andI do scream.
I don't mean to, and it, everyman in my life, from my brothers
to my husband, now they just doit on purpose.
Oh.
And now my son has been on theaction.
Jen (52:14):
Oh, they love it.
Let's people know that you'relike that.
Oh, it's
Yasmine (52:17):
on.
Oh.
And I cannot help it.
My husband is a very quietWalker and he just, he would
just come up on me and I screamin the kitchen and he's like,
I'm in my own house.
Can I not just walk like aperson I'm like, please announce
yourself something, Russellsomething.
I dunno.
Jen (52:36):
We're gonna make like a cat, like a bell on or
something.
Yasmine (52:39):
Yes.
Cause he is a real quiet Walker.
Oh anyways.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Yeah, some accidents along thisroad are blamed on the lady.
Road.
So when bad things happen, theysay it's her fault.
Well, I mean,
Jen (52:56):
like I said, if I look in the rear view mirror, I see her,
I, my soul has left my body.
We are, I, don't not worriedabout that car.
So wreck.
Yasmine (53:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Jen (53:11):
There's a spider in my car.
I feel, same thing would happen.
yeah.
Yasmine (53:15):
I heard this statistic and now I can't remember exactly
what it was, but there areaccidents that happen that they
can't explain why, like theperson is by themselves in the
car and they die.
They don't know why.
And they're saying.
Like a bug or something, or likea bee or a spider in the car.
(53:37):
Because obviously like when thecar crashes either the bug dies
or it leaves or whatever lizardor something.
Yeah.
Jen (53:43):
But like when they can't figure out why somebody yeah.
Like ran off the side of theroad and stuff.
Yeah.
Yasmine (53:49):
They look at phone records and stuff like that.
It's not the phone.
Like,
Jen (53:54):
I, I mean, you get a big enough fighter in my car that
surprises me.
Yeah.
All bets are off.
I, I just I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't, yeah, that just me howI go out.
I, I hate them that much snakesare, are right next to that.
I'm terrified, but fighters,they win because I'm gonna see
(54:18):
them more often.
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
So, yeah.
But Hm.
Creepy, right.
Oh, speaking of TikTok, we welloff mic.
We were talking about TikTok.
And so thanks today.
I was, I saw one and it was thisthis police officer that was
filming, his buddy.
Cause he came up and he wasstopped like in this center turn
lane.
(54:39):
It didn't look like it was verybusy, but he's like, outside of
his car, like, looking andstuff.
And so then the other guy'slike, what are you doing?
Is everything okay?
And it's a spider and the other,guy's like making fun of him.
And then they find the guy findsthe spider and it's like up, it
(54:59):
is very like, I mean, you're,that thing that you're, the
thing, the visor Uhhuh, it waslike up, against that at the
top.
And so, yeah.
And they show it and I mean, itlooked decent, it was a good
size cell phone.
So I'm like, through that guy'scell phone into my cell phone.
So I'm like.
And I got, yeah, he quit makingfun of him then, and
Yasmine (55:20):
I don't know what it is, but some people don't have
that like physical reaction tospiders that like that we do.
Some people don't
Jen (55:28):
have that granddaddy long legs.
Oh yeah, no, no.
I can't even handle that.
It
Yasmine (55:34):
makes me all clammy and I don't know, I don't want it.
I don't get it away from me.
Jen (55:40):
Yeah.
So yeah, behind that explanationis the point like I could.
Yeah.
Honestly,
Yasmine (55:47):
it
Jen (55:47):
makes sense where something like that could absolutely
happen.
Yeah.
All I can hope is that I hit thebrake instead of the gas I Don.
Yasmine (55:57):
Yeah.
I think on that, I'm gonna, I'mgonna end because I'm gonna do
the next discussion.
Yeah.
All.
Did I do the other one?
What do you think?
I dunno.
How are we doing on time?
I Don know.
I don't either.
Okay.
Well it's.
I think,
Jen (56:14):
should I do it?
I think you just do it now.
We've talked about it, do it.
Yeah.
Yasmine (56:18):
That's true.
One more.
So this one, right.
This one is actually in theUnited States.
Okay.
Altoona, Pennsylvania, I don'tknow if I'm saying that right.
If I'm not, I'm so sorry.
But it's English, so can'treally help too much there
anyways.
so there's a legend of she'scalled the white lady of whoopy
(56:38):
white lady of Whoopie whoopsy,the go whoopsy.
Okay.
So she haunts whoop son nook,whoops.
Wopsononock Mountain andBuckhorn mountain in the Western
part of Altoona.
(56:59):
So very specifically, no ideawhere that is.
So the story said that her andher husband were killed in a
terrible car accident, more caraccidents.
So sad.
Over the stretch of road calledthe devil's elbow, they fell
down the side of the mountainand passed away.
(57:22):
The legend says that she's beenseen looking for her husband on
foggy nights and even has beenpicked up as a hitchhiker.
Then again, when the driverlooks in the rear view mirror,
her react, her reflection is notseen and she always disappears
around devil's elbow.
So I know why, but I picked upthis one too.
(57:42):
It's got the whole rear viewmirror thing happening again,
right.
Where people actually stop topick her up and she's gone.
She's just not there.
So I thought that wasinteresting.
She doesn't, I didn't seeanything about her looking scary
in the mirror or anything likethat, but.
She rides back up or downwherever she's coming from to
(58:04):
the place where her, the carwent off the road.
Jen (58:07):
That is so sad, so sad and I to think, yeah, but that, I
like that better.
That she just disappears.
Yasmine (58:17):
Yeah.
I mean, she's going back.
Maybe she looked long enough andheading back.
I don't know.
Sounds sad, but yeah, so that'soh, that's the white lady, the
lady in white.
Nice.
Yeah.
Jen (58:30):
oh, I wonder, wonder why we all have, probably every
country, like, I wonder why thatis.
Cause there
Yasmine (58:38):
were so many, so many, and then it's interesting to me
that not only countries havethem, but like regions, like my
little town has their own ladyand white story.
Like yeah.
Just, and then they're passeddown orally to.
Kids as a warning tale or likedrivers as a, don't pick a pitch
(59:02):
hikers cuz it could be the ladyin white right.
you're on these long darkstretches of highway.
Yeah.
Car accidents, car accidents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So is generally like some kindof tragedy and grief.
But violence too.
Always sad.
Jen (59:21):
Right.
So, oh,
Yasmine (59:24):
oh
Jen (59:26):
too.
Totally different storiestonight.
Yeah.
That was absolutely love.
I love all things paranormal.
So I definitely wanna hear moreabout the the mining town.
Yasmine (59:37):
Yeah.
I'll have to do an episode onthat because it's a really
interesting,
Jen (59:40):
okay.
I would love that, so.
Okay.
So thank you everybody.
And again, remember if you wantto share your own personal story
or local.
I was trying to say that locallegend.
I was trying to combine likefolk and legend.
It didn't work.
Do you wanna share that with usand have us tell your story, or
(01:00:03):
if you are thinking you mightwanna come on and tell it to the
world yourself get in touchmavensofmisdeeds@gmail.com.
Everything else we are onTwitter, TikTok, Facebook,
Instagram.
Yep.
That's all of them.
And generally speaking, it wouldbe all just at mavens of
misdeeds.
And you will find us easily.
I'll also have links in the showdescription to all the web not
(01:00:26):
the website.
Well, we do have a website.
I knew I was forgettingsomething that is simple, that's
mavensofmisdeeds.com and I thinkthat's it.
Yasmine (01:00:37):
Yeah, I think
Jen (01:00:37):
so.
All that.
Okay.
Thanks for joining us.
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