The Marlins are going back to their little league days and calling pitches from their dugout. They have a whole sequence to get the pitch call to the pitcher, but is it effective and does it allow the pitcher to be able to shake it? There are both pros and cons to this method and it should be interesting to see how this system ends up going.
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Episode Transcript
Let's talk a little bit about pitch calling and how
that works, because the Miami Marlins are changing it up
a little bit, trying something new, and I thought it
was fascinating as an ex picture myself. The catchers have
weighed in about territory, guys, that is a j Prasinski
and ocrats will talk about their take on this, but
(00:32):
more or less, the Marlins have decided that they will
call the pitches from the dugout. Yes, like Little League. Okay,
this was reported in this article. Marlins win the extras
the first time they do it with the coaches calling
the pitches.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
So here's the gist.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Here's the basically what's going on, how the thing works,
and we'll talk a little bit, well what I think
it means and what the pros and cons are, because
there are definitely gonna be some pros and cons. The
catchers basically wear an arm band. So you may have
seen these guys. It's like in football and college football.
They have the armband with all the plays on them.
Catchers in college do too, like it's pretty common usually
(01:12):
for sign sets. Honestly, a lot of big leaguers do
it too, just so they can remember how everyone used
to mix up their signs before. Now they don't do
it as much because we have PITCHCLM and they don't
need to remember that stuff because there's no sign sets.
But it used to be a thing already, so that's
not weird at all. There's sometimes outfielders have worn them
to keep like they're positioning and.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Stuff all all set.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So basically the assistant pitching coach in the dugout this
gentleman right, yeah, right here, has a card with two
numbers on it, right, and basically they have a bunch
of different it's a bunch of code sets. So they'll
give a number. It'll be the pitch in the location,
so and these pitches will they're gonna shift around every
(01:55):
single link. So the guy swaps out his card every
inning every time he goes back out there the codes
different to give them the number. He checks the thing,
puts it on the PitchCom and boom we go. Okay.
Theoretically it's supposed to help the catcher. I mean, so
there's two things. It's supposed to help the catcher learn
how we want to approach hitters and stuff kind of
(02:15):
intuitively by like, hey, we're in this situation they're telling
me to do this pitch whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Boom.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Also, you come up with your plan with your pitching
coach before the game. You sit down with your pitching coach,
assistant pitching coach a lot of times with a bullpen
coach and the catcher that's catching that day and then
the other catcher and you guys discuss what your plan is,
what you want to do whatever, so you get on
the same page anyways, So it can also function as, hey,
we talked about this earlier. You're out there, you're in
(02:40):
the moment, you're trying to remember everything, but we can
have paper in front of us, so like maybe we
just go, hey, remember this is what we talked about.
We're going to enact the plan we already talked about.
So everybody has it in their mind and we will
just be the ones that keep us on track with
that plan. Okay, that makes sense in a vacuum a
little bit or a little bit to me like that,
that makes that sounds like a something that could work.
(03:01):
And then they also want their catchers to worry about
hitting a little bit more, which I don't like that.
Like if the goals to make your catcher to not
have to do a part of his job very well.
I just start Now we're getting into like sanitized error,
Like we don't want we want eventually this guy to
have a say and think about the game this way,
(03:23):
because you need to be able to know how to
call pitches, because it's situational stuff too, Like the game
plan isn't just a thing you're parenting, like you're thinking
through it. That's part of it. That's it helps you
understand the game better. Why this happens, and this happens.
We do this to try to get this and sometimes
if you've got to be able to think outside the
box in the motion, sometimes they're not thinking about something.
(03:44):
Sometimes you're the only one who have the idea. Who
wants to be the one who's just like just tell
me what they do and I'll do it like that.
Just I don't know. That sounds not super fun for me.
I don't think that'd be fun for a lot of guys.
So I did have one big question. So when I
read this article, it was unclear on whether or not
the picture would be allowed to shake. Okay, I don't
(04:05):
because in college and in the Little League, coach is like,
don't shake, just throw it. I tell you to throw
like you haven't earned the opportunity or you haven't earned
the right.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
To shake off pitches.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
But at the end of the day, the picture has
to be the one choosing the pitch because that's where.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Confidence come from.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Like, you can't just dictate pitches to pictures. They have
to have there has to be some sort of like,
I really don't like this sucks today, I don't want
to throw this at all. I need to be able
to be like no. So I did find this in
the article. So the guy started was Jansen Junk. Primo name.
Let's be very clear here. Primo name. Janson Junk was
(04:44):
was interviewed after the game. He said, I didn't shake
at all. Junk said, there's a few times where I
kind of thought about it. The Jock Peterson first at
BET when he got a double down the line. We
were three fastballs and we're two oh, and I'm like,
I kind of want to throw something else, but I didn't.
He's insinuating that shake thing is a thing you can do.
He didn't do it because he's young and he was
(05:05):
trying to go with the process, but he can shake.
So if you can shake, I'm feeling a little bit
better about it, because at the end of the day,
it's coming through the catcher. It doesn't matter where the
information is coming from. Right, if you shake and it's
yours at the end of the day, it doesn't matter
for the picture as much. It only matters for the catcher.
So I'm not super super worried about that. So I
(05:27):
mentioned a bunch of stuff with this, right, if this
is something they're gonna continue doing, And by all accounts,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Think they're doing it every day. I just think they're
doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
They're seeing how it kind of coalesces and comes together,
which I totally understand. That makes a lot of sense
to me, Like, run some tests, see see see if
there's added value it. Can we help communicate even a
little bit better? Can we get them more information and
make better decisions if we help as opposed to us dictate.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Are they helping or they dictating?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So some of the pros of this, right, the information
will be more complete and trust can be easily built. Right,
So you're like, we all talk about this, You have
the paper in front of you. So now I trust
the information coming a lot more clearly because I know
where it's coming. From I know the catcher's just like sider,
like I don't know, Like I would feel better if
there's five people all agreeing on the decision, and that's
(06:15):
what happens. More, I get that the get on the
same page problem that arises with an experience can be
handled more quickly, Meaning if you're out there and your
catcher has no clue what you want to do or whatever,
and you guys try to get on the same page,
Like if there's people on base, you have twenty seconds.
You can step off twice. You only get four mound
visits a game, you know, if it's the eighth or
(06:36):
the seventh or whatever. Who knows, maybe you have a
zero left or you have one left right.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You don't want to.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Use your mound visit nless the pitching coach comes out,
so you don't really have disengagements, and the guy can't
come talk to.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You anyway for disengagement. So like there's no really way
to get on the same page.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And if no one's on base, you can't step off,
which is silly as hell.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I'm gonna say it's silly.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's still silly. It pisses me off. So hitting on
the same page is harder than it's ever been. Actually,
with the PitchCom it takes forever.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
To say what the pitch is for, say, battle like it's.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Too long, like one was easy to know it's too long,
So shaking and stuff you can only shake twice before
you get you have to just throw the third pitch.
You just don't have time to shake that much, right,
So kind of helps a lot of stuff. The pitching
coaches now have a way to communicate with you and
you guys can get on the same page more quickly,
and you're basically just like, we don't know what to do,
but you do, so we're.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Automatic on the same page.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
It would help with that, all right, And then overall,
better general decisions we made, you'll stick to your game
plan a little bit more cohesively, and things won't get
out of black as much.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Theoretically, those are the pros FT fam.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
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we get a little show and tell from aerk krats.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Nice?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I mean, unfortunately you can't even see all the little intricacies.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
We got sharks, we got patterns, we got way we
got sailboats. Oh and they feel super buttery on your skin.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Can you show us the liner so people can understand
how it's different, because I've actually been taking it up.
I was just vacation. I got the unique liner too,
I got the I got the baby Blue John something
about it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I don't know it like it pops.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
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Speaker 1 (08:45):
One major con. It's boring. It's just super boring, turning
your brain off just saying yes, boring, boring as hell.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Like I would have hated it. I would have been
like I want.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
To work through things and like, you know, especially if
there's like this thing like hey man, why do you
if you have to be like why didn't you throw
the pitch we told you to throw? Like that would
be like shut up, shut up, leave me alone. Like
that's where I would go. That's probably gonna happen regularly,
and veterans will feel that way as well, Like.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Just like, let's ease into this.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Let's like instead of just starting where you guys are
calling everything and then.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Easing it back, let's just ease into it forward.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Like you call a few, you suggest a few, or
or weren't we get together? I shake over a certain
number of times and then he goes to you. Right,
if I shake three times, then he looks over. Maybe
that's what we do. But one of the big cons
for me is it just sounds like it would be boring.
I also prep, prep could be boring. Prep could get
(09:46):
really lazy really quickly. You gotta have a catcher sitting
there who is just checked out. He's not paying attention
at all because he knows you're just gonna tell him
what to do during the game.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Same thing with pictures.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
It if you offer this, hey man, we'll just give
you all the information in real time in the game.
The guy's not gonna get the information before. He's not
gonna study. He's just gonna get the answers to the test.
That's how you create lazy pictures that don't get better,
like like why what? Like what that's obvious. Of course
(10:17):
that might happen. Now, I'm not saying it will because
some guys are like, I just want to be involved
with this process. So ideally everyone's super engaged, but you
could see how not being engaged would be something would
happen here very easily.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Then on top of that, now, if more teams start
to do this, we start to move towards this solve
game problem that we have in the NBA. Right, Everyone's like,
threes are the best, rebounds are the best, so shoot
only in these spots. This is where you get the
most value. And then everyone takes those same shots over
and over again. It's just sob It's like the three
outcomes in baseball. We don't want pitchers out there, like
(10:53):
guys not tinkering the pitches anymore, because these two pitches
work so well, so they're just gonna call them over
and over and over again.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
We're just gonna see pitch after pitch up.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yes, man, you're you're you're so you're so effective when
you throw twelve straight sliders.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Okay, like why, I don't know, like that that could
easily happen as well.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
We could get to the point where everyone gets so
efficient that like, you're just robots again, the same thing
I have the problem with the robot ups. We don't
want robotic things happening in this game. It's too boring.
Okay uh? And then the last thing, what if the
(11:33):
guy's calling the pitches? What if the coaches? What if
the organization isn't very good at it? What happens then,
because when a picture's out there making decisions, it's on them,
like they they like, it's easy to compartmentalize whose fault
it was, But when you start doing this, then you're like,
(11:57):
does everyone suck? It starts to entangle poor play with
everybody to the point where that could become an issue
if things aren't going well. So these are just things
that I see happening. I don't know if I like
this very much, because it feels like you're being coddled
the same way that like eighty pitch limits are around
(12:17):
and one hundred pitches is too bad for you. It's
bad for certain people, it's not bad for everybody. Like
you should be able to reach down deep and get
a little bit extra when you need it. We need
to stop sanitizing that out of the game. I miss
I am an analytics driven person. I love stats, I
love numbers. There's so much to learn, right, But the
magic and the fun of playing baseball is deciding that
(12:40):
you're going to do something that's hard and then pulling
it off.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I repeat.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Guys on first and second or second and third, and
they're no outs and you have to get yourself out
of situation. The stats say you are going to give
up a run fair very likely, but there's a chance
you don't. And instead of being pulled out of that
situation or someone else put into it that they think
is more likely to pull it off, the person who
(13:09):
isn't the most likely hero in that situation doing it
is literally what baseball is. And what more of this
kind of stuff we do. The more we lead ourselves
to making decisions based on safety and being risk adverse,
you just have to take risks when human beings are
playing human beings in a game.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Risk is part of it.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Risk is part of the story, and there needs to
be space to take risks based on what you see
in front of your eyes, even if you might be wrong.
And isn't that a store or isn't that something that
we just need in everything? A little bit more risk.
I agree. I do have one little thing that I
(13:53):
would love to see implemented if possible, or might might
make it work better. Maybe the picture when maybe the
picture catcher arts shakes for help, like and.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Who wants to be a millionaire?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Basically you have a you have a type of shake,
so you're like, no, no, no, And if you do this, hey,
you you can phone a friend aka the coaches in
the dugout. What do you guys think of that? I
think it's pretty great. I think it's pretty great. I
think we should run with it. But overall, I want
(14:23):
to know what you guys think. Should the coaches be
calling the pitches? Should pictures just be thrown into the fire?
Could it be some sort of could it be some
sort of like your first five starts? We call them
and we slowly stop calling them to get you in
the in the flow of what we're trying to do
and learn this thing.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Or should we just say stop, put put your effort
somewhere else. I do think though there is some merit
to this. Just please don't force it. Don't force it.
Let the guys learn. If it's a learning vehicle, I
love it. If it's a dictation vehicle. I hate it,
but I guess we'll have to wait and see. And
the season's almost over, so we'll see what happens in
(15:01):
twenty twenty six twenty
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Mm
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