MC Fireside Chats - February 12th, 2025

The latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, brought together industry experts Kevin Thueson, Zach Stoltenberg, and Garrett Brown for a deep dive into campground development, investment strategies, and guest experience personalization. Garrett Brown, owner of Cameron Ranch Glamping near Houston, Texas, introduced his property, which consists of four high-end glamping structures. Brown emphasized the importance of working with reputable architects to streamline permitting processes and plan for future expansions effectively. He highlighted the necessity of having a clear guest avatar in mind to tailor experiences that drive repeat bookings and word-of-mouth marketing. Kevin Thueson, representing KCN Campgrounds, shared his experience in campground investment, managing KOA franchises, and scaling operations across multiple states. He stressed the value of detailed site evaluations before acquisitions and the importance of structured growth plans. Thueson emphasized that purchasing existing campgrounds offers insights into historical performance, ensuring a predictable investment return compared to ground-up developments. Zach Stoltenberg announced the launch of his new independent outdoor hospitality studio in partnership with LJA, an established engineering firm. This new venture aims to integrate architecture, landscape architecture, and civil engineering to offer comprehensive design solutions for resort and hospitality development. Stoltenberg outlined the significance of a well-planned design process, ensuring long-term feasibility and compliance with zoning and permitting requirements. The discussion touched on the importance of architects in campground planning, even for seemingly simple projects. Stoltenberg elaborated on the necessity of a phased site plan, future-proofing expansions, and ensuring compliance with regulatory requirements. He emphasized that a structured design approach can prevent costly mistakes and expedite the approval process. Thueson elaborated on KCN’s process of evaluating campgrounds before acquisition, analyzing guest demographics, and determining necessary infrastructure upgrades. He shared that market research, guest feedback, and competitive analysis play crucial roles in decision-making. Thueson also highlighted the importance of delivering high-quality experiences rather than merely competing on price. Garrett Brown detailed his approach to guest experience personalization, explaining how Cameron Ranch Glamping incorporates private amenities like hot tubs and saunas to differentiate itself. He shared an innovative method of using AI-generated personalized songs for guests, which has significantly boosted engagement and word-of-mouth marketing. Brown emphasized that minor personal touches create lasting impressions, driving customer loyalty and increasing organic referrals. A significant portion of the discussion focused on the need for operators to understand and adapt to evolving guest expectations. Stoltenberg explained that consistency in branding, messaging, and guest experience builds trust, which is vital for long-term success. He stressed that effective campground development goes beyond physical design—it requires a seamless and engaging customer journey from booking to departure. The conversation also highlighted the challenges of working with different planning and zoning authorities. Thueson shared his experiences navigating varying regulatory landscapes, emphasizing the importance of hiring professionals who understand local requirements. He reiterated that investing in expert consultation early on can save time and money in the long run. As the episode wrapped up, the panelists agreed that the outdoor hospitality industry is continuously evolving, requiring operators to stay ahead of market trends and guest expectations. Brian Searl suggested a follow-up discussion on personalized guest experiences in a future episode, inviting Garrett Brown to share...

Episode Transcript

(00:45):
Welcome everybody to anotherepisode of MC Fireside Chats. My
name is Brian Searl withInsider Perks and Modern Campground.
Super excited to be here. It'sour second episode of the year with
this group of people. Althoughwe didn't have Zach for the first
week and we didn't have ournew intro. So what do you think about
that, Kevin? You like that? Isthat better?
That made me want to gocamping. I loved it.
All right, can you just.Please just wait an hour, though?
We'd like to.

(01:06):
Yeah, I can. I'll work on,like, packing while we're doing this,
and then I'll be ready.
That works. That works for me.So thanks, guys, for being here.
I appreciate it. We got acouple people who are out sick this
week. Flu seems to be goingaround, so we're missing Scott Foos
and Joe had something come up,and Devon was one of our special
guests. He had to cancelbecause he was sick. And then Casey

(01:27):
is from Camp Spot is somewherein Peru or something on some kind
of midlife crisis or. I don'tknow what's happening with him, but
he couldn't make it hereeither, so. But we're gonna have
a good conversation here. Sowe have Garrett, who's the owner
of Cameron Ranch Glamping.Garrett, do you want to briefly introduce
yourself and just tell us alittle bit about your property and
then we'll have Zach and Kevindo the same.
Yep. Happy to be here. I own afour site, four structure site near

(01:50):
Houston, Texas, called CameronRanch Glamping. We've been open for
about two and a half years,and it's been amazing, and it's been
definitely one of the biggest,biggest adventures of my life in
the positive and just learninga lot about real estate.
Awesome. I'm excited to diveinto that with you and learn more
about your property. Kevin,KCN Campgrounds.

(02:11):
Yeah, we're a group of, we'rekind of, I guess you'd call us an
investment firm. Started asoperators with one park, and we've
grown to. We're closing on ourninth property. All KOA franchises
close on number nine here in acouple of weeks, spread out over
seven states. And, you know,we've been doing this for about seven

(02:31):
years, and the last two orthree years have been really focused
on building out our team andtrying to scale the business.
Awesome. Excited to have youhere as a recurring guest, Kevin,
as always. And Zach, firsttime we've seen you in a couple months.
How was your Christmas?
Holidays are good. We actuallytook the whole family down to Puerto
Rico for A week and got to seemy brother in law, sister in law

(02:55):
down there. I mean, tons ofstuff in the works and things moving.
And my big announcement thatI've been working on for a couple
months is we are formallybranching the outdoor hospitality
studio off and away from mysoon to be former employer, Clockwork.

(03:19):
And we're gonna build out thestudio, kind of bringing on a new
partnership with anengineering firm to be able to do
not only the architecture andthe design, but also landscape architecture,
also civil engineering, andreally have the resources and the
people to build out a fulldedicated team to do resort and hospitality

(03:43):
design and development. Sokind of, it's been a lot and a lot
of back and forth over thelast couple of months to get some
of those things in place, butwe're officially launching the new
venture in the beginning of March.
That's awesome. We'll talk tous a little bit about it. Like I
said, it's obviously relevantnews, right? Like, I mean, we all,
we all have heard of Clockworkfor a number of years. We've crossed

(04:05):
paths with you at the shows. Imean, I have a light understanding
of what you did there,although architecture is way above
my pay grade. But generallyspeaking, like, what do you want
to accomplish with a new company?
So the firm that we'repartnering with is called LJA. They're
predominantly a civilengineering firm, but they've done

(04:28):
resort development, they'vedone RV parks. They've been in this
space, in this world for anumber of years. And they kept seeing
a need to add architects. Theysaid, you know, a lot of these developments,
like, we know the. Theengineering side of it, but they've
worked with several architectsaround the country to varying degrees

(04:50):
of success and expertise. Andthey said, you know, we see an opportunity
here to. To move this in houseand open an architectural division.
And we've done a coupleprojects with them jointly over the
last year. Got to know theteam. The main guy, Shannon Gordon,
who is leading the Kansas Cityoffice, is actually somebody that

(05:13):
I've known for 15 years. Heand I have worked together at three
different firms. And I hadapproached him kind of at the tail
end of last year and said,hey, I'm thinking about branching
this off independent ofClockwork and just launching my own
studio. And he said, well,what if you could do that, but with
the backing of amultimillion-dollar engineering firm

(05:37):
helping you do it? And I said,well, that certainly sounds easier
than taking all the risk on myown. And so we've kind of gone back
and forth they had to make thedecision first that they wanted to
actually open an architecturaldivision. And so that was sort of

(05:57):
in the works for severalmonths, but we've squared everything
away and what it's going to beis basically they've opened a new
office in Kansas City just forus, for Shannon and I. Shannon is
a licensed landscape architectwith extensive resort and hospitality

(06:17):
development experience overthe last 25 to 30 years. I've been
an architect for 15 years, sohe was working professionally while
I was still going to school.And they've got a team already started,
five different people, varyingmix of backgrounds and perspectives,

(06:39):
but everybody's dedicated toresort and hospitality. And then
I'm coming over fromClockwork, potentially some of my
team that's there will becoming to join me as well. We're
still working out details onsome of those things, making offers,
but essentially it's takingkind of the success that we've had

(07:04):
over the last four or fiveyears and really putting us in a
position to really grow thisbusiness to launch, to have a more
complete, comprehensive teamof people and really a dedicated
vision to investing andpartnering with people in the outdoor
hospitality space to build anddevelop incredible resorts.

(07:27):
The one thing I think it'simportant for us to talk about here
is, like, there's tons ofcampgrounders who are watching this
show. I think there's probablyvery few who have envisioned, like,
why I would need an architectat my campground, for example. Right.
So just briefly talk usthrough that because I think I was
under the impression beforemeeting you at least, that just the
cabins, this is how it works,right, Kevin? The cabins just come

(07:49):
in on wheels and you just likeback them up and you're like, that
looks good. And then theguests come. So explain to us why
you need an architect.
Well, I would say the easyanswer is a lot of what I do in this
space doesn't have anything todo with architecture. The longer
answer is good design isapplicable everywhere. And a lot

(08:15):
of what we do with the clientsthat we've worked with, it's not
really just constructiondrawings and plans, but it's all
design. So having acomprehensive, well thought out site
plan, having, having a phasedplan, as most of these end up being,
that you sort of have step bystep, not just for what you're going

(08:38):
to do year one, but yearthree, year five, year seven, year
ten, that you. You've got aplan in place. And then I would say,
most importantly is on theentitlement side for anybody who's
buying an existing campgroundand Wants to flip it, reposition
it. Somebody who's trying tobuild a new campground from the ground

(08:58):
up. Getting through thatplanning, zoning, permitting piece,
you need an architect or anengineer to help you do that. And
so that's been a big part ofmy job over the years, has been helping
folks navigate thatentitlement process. And in order
to do that, you have to submitdrawings and documents. They want

(09:21):
to see a site plan, they wantto see what your units are going
to look like, what is yourbase camp structure, your office,
your check in, your staffhousing. You need floor plans, you
need elevations, you needdrawings, renderings. And so that's
what we do.
Yeah, Brian, we've experiencedboth sides of that. To your point
earlier, um, we, we're onlybuying existing campgrounds. We're

(09:44):
not doing any true ground up development.
But you do like rip apartstores. I've seen photos of you 3.
I can't remember whatcampground that was.
From, but that was probablyfor any of them.
Okay. I just remember seeingthe three people with sledgehammers
and they were busting up stuff.
So that was probably WisconsinDells, but we've done that in, in
many locations. No, I mean,like when we go in, we buy a park,

(10:08):
if it's already up andrunning, it has all the infrastructure
and we're taking the RV siteand turning it cabin and we're using
a park model or deluxe cabin.Then yeah, we, you know, we order
it gets dropped off, we, weblock it, hook up the utilities,
put some skirting on it andit's ready to go. But that's a lot
different than what Zach'stalking about because we've also
gone through the process oftrying to do expansions and buying

(10:30):
land adjacent to our parks.And you, you really do have to go
through all of the hoops. Soit just depends on really the scope
of what you're doing. And youknow, having those, those multi year,
multi phased plans like Zachwas just talking about, the, the
better you get that up front,the easier it is to get through all

(10:51):
of the approvals andpermitting. And you know, we, we've
tried honestly not to, toskirt the rules, but we've tried
to shortcut in some ways andit just takes longer. And so like,
for, for bigger projects, we,we're learning that it's just a lot
more efficient and timely touse the right people, get it done
the right way. Because the,you know, it really doesn't matter

(11:14):
which jurisdiction you're in,they're going to require that level
of detail.
What does that look like for
For buyers too You know, we.We worked with a lot of clients that
are buying existing assets,and, and one of the things that we
do is, is sort of anevaluation of that property where
we'll come out and spend a dayor two walking around. And we're

(11:37):
looking for code issues. We'relooking for, you know, what are the
immediate things that need tobe done? What are. What are potential
health safety risks to yourguests and to the public? What needs
to be addressed, you know, nowwhat are things that we feel are
important and should beaddressed in the next, you know,
six to 12 months? And thenworking with that owner, what. What

(12:00):
do you see? What was yourvision here, you know, for that adjacent
property that you might wantto expand on or buy at some point
in the future? You know, we'llsit down and do a test fit and say,
hey, if you bought that, wethink you can get, you know, 20 glamping
units over there or 35 RV padsover there. And then they can run
the math and work theirnumbers and say, well, you know,

(12:23):
at this purchase price, thatdoesn't really make sense for us
right now. Or if we can getthat many on it, then maybe what
they're asking makes sense andit would have value. We look at a
lot of accessibility issues.There's certain requirements, and
then there's also just kind ofgeneral good practices. And I like

(12:46):
to tell people often when theysay, well, do I have to do that?
Is that required? I'll say,well, no, it's not required, but
it won't stop you from gettingsued. So evaluating existing properties,
both for potential futuredevelopment as well as just what
is the current state and what,if any, issues are we looking at?

(13:07):
That's also a big part of whatwe do.
Kevin, I'm curious. Youmentioned acquiring campgrounds versus
building, at least so far,right. Nobody knows where KCN will
go in the future, as big asyou want it, hopefully. But when
you're coming in and you'reacquiring a property for the first
time, or maybe it's beforethat, before you close. Right. Like

(13:28):
you mentioned, your ninth oneis coming up. But what does that
process from a. Because we'rereally talking about the foundations
of user experience here,right? Like guest experience, eventually.
They're not experiencing itquite at that point yet. But we're
thinking of the accessibility.We're thinking of the design and
the flow and the landscapingand the all the stuff. Right. In
addition to the permitting,that doesn't really impact them,

(13:48):
but will obviously,eventually, if you are able to open.
But how does that process gowith, in KCN's mind, when you're
looking at a park for eitherevaluation or you come in after you've
closed, like what. How do youdecide to rip up the store or not
rip up the store? Those kindsof things.
So we, I mean the, the, theprocess we go through, when we look

(14:08):
at it, I mean there's theinitial kind of high level. Does
the market make sense? Isthere a reason for people to be there?
We look at the history andthat's the real reason why we focus
on only buying existing parks,even though a lot of them are old
and need a lot of work. Theinfrastructure is outdated, there's
deferred mainten. We can, wecan look at how has this park performed

(14:31):
over time and is there a loyalcustomer base and do we know that
people are going to comeversus when you're developing something
from scratch, you don't havethat data to base it on. Right. You
can, you can go through theprocess of doing feasibility studies
and all that and understandtraffic patterns and you can get
comfortable with that. Butit's a little bit different than

(14:51):
when you can look at and saywe had 15,000 camper nights last
year and 12,000 the yearbefore. This is what our reservations
look like as of right now forthe future. So that's, that's kind
of been our focus at the highlevel. Let's check those boxes. And
then when we get into it, welook at, you know, we are, we are
all active outdoors adventurecampers within our company. And so

(15:18):
we look at it from the lens ofwhat would we want? If I go into
a property and I'm looking atit to buy, is it somewhere that I
would want to stay? Would Iwant to bring my family back? What
do I like about it? What donot where. You know, been to enough
campgrounds and done enoughcamping in my life that I feel like
I have a pretty good idea ofwhat works and what doesn't. But
then we also go back and we'lllook at what guests have been saying

(15:41):
about the park as well. Right.There's a lot of information you
can pull from guest reviewsand look for trends. You know, if
you have people complainingabout accessibility issues, then
you know that that's somethingthat needs to be addressed. If they're
complaining about, you know,WI fi not working or being really
spotty, then you know thatthat's something you need to look
into. So we evaluate all ofthat and then we, you know, we apply

(16:04):
a Lens of what, what's workingwell and is there enough demand that
we can take that to the nextlevel? Right. You know, our cabins
or glamping units performingreally well. Is there an opportunity
to add more of those? Is it RVsites that are performing well and
that would be the focus ofwhat we try and build out in the
future and then we'll even digin a little bit more. And it's not

(16:25):
just, you can't just look atRV, you need to look at, are they
50amps, are they 30amps, arethey full hookup, are they back ends
or they pull through? What'sthe length? Right. You could have,
you know, really wellperforming sites because they are
big enough to fit a nice longmotorhome that's towing a vehicle.

(16:46):
And then you could have an RVsite right next to it that has all
the same amenities, but it'sjust too short so it doesn't perform.
And so that's kind of how wego through our evaluation of what's
the strategy for the park.Where's the, where's the low hanging
fruit that we can attack rightaway and where's the real meaty value
add that we can do over time?
So two part question, and Iwant to get to Garrett. First part

(17:09):
I think is if I'm a park ownerwatching this show right now, hearing
what you're saying, how do Iidentify what my weaknesses are?
Not to buy a property, but Ialready have my property. I've maybe
I've owned it six months ortwo years or 10 years or 15 years.
Where do I begin that processto figure out what guests like? Obviously
you can read reviews andthings, but a little bit more deeper

(17:32):
than that, right. How do Ifigure out what I can improve? And
then once I figure out what Ican improve from a guest experience
standpoint or all the thingsyou just talked about, how do I prioritize?
Yeah, the pri, theprioritization I think is the, is
the hard part. It's really notthat hard to identify where you can
get better. Right. You've gotdata, you've got numbers, you can

(17:52):
look at what sites areperforming well. You can look at
seasonality. You can look at alot of different things in your numbers
and your registration history.You can also look at your competition,
right? Like go and drivethrough or you'll go visit the other
parks in your area and look,you know, if you're slow on a busy
weekend, are the other parksin town, are they busier than you

(18:16):
are and try and see what'sdifferent about what they're doing.
Is it their location, is ittheir, you know, do they have someone
greeting you when, when youpull in is do they have a better
set of amenities? Right. Andso you have to do that kind of comp
comparison. Is it rates, isit, you know, any number of things.
And then once you, once you'vebuilt that list out, I think for,

(18:37):
for us it comes down tomomentum. There's going to be some
things that are you, you, youneed to do you need to invest in
and, and they may take sometime. So we'll look at is there anything
we can do today that's goingto have an impact on tomorrow and
try and get, get the ballrolling while we work on some of
those longer term projects. Solike if we know that the feedback

(19:00):
is we just need more of thisparticular site type or we need to
have a, you know, just abetter wi fi system that might take
several months or longer. Sowe'll, we'll work on that in the
background. But what can we dotoday to make sure that our guests
that are with us today aregoing to want to come back tomorrow?

(19:20):
Makes sense. I'm glad I don'town an RV park. I'm not brave enough
to do all that stuff. Sitbehind my little mic here and talk.
You can always invest with us,Brian, and we'll do that for you.
You can just.
That requires me to have moneyfirst. Kevin. I don't make any money
like this. These two plantsback here were basically a month
salary for me.

(19:41):
Well, figure out all this AIstuff you're working on and then
let's talk.
I'm trying. I'm working on it.Garrett, Cameron Ranch Glamping,
so you heard what we're kindof talking about here with guest
experience and obviously, youknow, all the way from the permitting
process to, you know, guestexperience down to the things that
Kevin mentioned. How did thatthought process go for you when you,,did

(20:04):
you developordidyou buy CameronRancher?=o
I developed it and I candefinitely attest to how impactful
a good architect is and tohave in your, in your plans going
forward and how smart it is tohave the vision for where you want
to take the site in a fewyears. And not just especially I

(20:24):
do, I try to be more. I don'twant my sites to be, you know, I
try to keep them smaller andhave more room and so I have maybe
four or five that I developand then try to be more high end.
And working with an architecthelped me get the exact site plan
that I needed to be be acommercially permitted facility in
an area that had never heardof glamping. I brought this to the

(20:46):
permitting department and youwould have thought I was asking them
if we could, you know, build arocket ship or something. They were
more than welcome to hear myideas. And I had a great architect
that was local. He helped medevelop a site plan, he helped me
get my geodome commerciallypermitted, which a lot of people
told me I was never going tohave an opportunity to do that. But
when you work with, you know,people that are very, very experienced

(21:10):
in that field, you're, they'regoing to be able to help you counteract
what you don't know whenyou're getting into it. But I did
develop it and I did have abig vision going forward for how,
how many sites I wanted on theproperty. It was just a house with
11 acres. I knew I wanted toend up with about five sites in the
end and keep a high end feelto them. And now we're, we've already

(21:32):
had our fourth and fifthpermitted and we're starting the
building processes on them.But I've been working with the same
architect the whole time anddeveloping, you know, making sure
there's enough ample space androad work and you know, accessibility
was a big thing even within mycounty. We had to plan for, you know,
an ADA unit as well too,because that was one thing that was
a, a holding, A holding pointwithin my county is once you hit

(21:56):
a certain amount of units,some areas are going, you know, there's
a, it's kind of a legal grayarea and I'm definitely not the person
to talk about it, but they sayonce you get over four units that
you're probably entering thespace of, you know, like this is
when you're going to need sometype of accessibility unit like that.
And, and working with anarchitect helped me plan all those
things and keep my, kept mycost down because I was able to plan

(22:18):
ahead for tying in septics,tying in my water wells, the road
work, all those things that gointo it. So that helped build the
guest experience before I evenstarted working with somebody very
reputable and made mypermitting process honestly easier
than I ever expected. But Ileaned on people that knew better
than me.
I mean, I think the takeawaythat I have here just being, you

(22:40):
know, not deeply involved inthe space from an architecture building
standpoint to, you know,actually owning properties is that
this, is this what comesbefore and what comes during and
what comes after is much morecomplex than I think people from
the outside looking inrealize. And certainly you can choose
to make that more or lesscomplex based on what you want to

(23:02):
accomplish at your property,you know, how good a service you
want to provide, how good ofamenities, you know, landscaping,
all those kinds of things.Right. But I think it continues on
past what we've talked aboutto the I have it in camera. Garrett's
going to talk about thispersonalizing guest experiences as
well. Maybe he just heard thatthe first time in front of the show.
You said that, Garrett. That'sthe first time I've heard it too,

(23:24):
that you were going to talkabout it. But do you do specific
things with personalizingguest experiences? Because, like,
I, I think, you know, a lot ofwhat we're talking about here is
feasibility studies, isunderstanding what your guests want
is looking back at, you know,in Kevin's case, the guests who have
been there have been comingthere for years. What they think,
what their behavior patternsare, why they come back looking at
our competitors andunderstanding what they have that

(23:46):
we can either build or we canmake better. But that extends all
the way to the guestexperience too, is understanding
deeply who your guest is.Like, we're doing a lot of this work
with our clients this year,who it's a big emphasis on us on
creating like the idealcustomer profiles through market
research, doing, you know,focus groups that are backed by both
real data and by really smartthinking AIs that can pull different

(24:09):
buyer personas by creatingaudience style guides. And some of
that leads us to deeper companalysis, deeper understanding of
who our guests are or whomaybe some guests are that we aren't
marketing to that we'remissing. And so I think that leads
to what I hope you're going totalk about is personalizing guest
experiences, but a little bitof just making sure that you're doing
that to the specific guesttype that you both want to attract

(24:31):
and that you are attracting.Is that fair?
Yep. I would. One of the mainthings I identified before I started
building my first glampingsite was what my target guest avatar
was going to be. I visiteddifferent glamping sites all around
the country, all throughoutTexas. You know, some they may have,
you know, 20 or 30 structureson a small piece of land, and they

(24:52):
go after their specificdemographic. I went to others that,
you know, may have had four orfive structures sprawled out over,
you know, a myriad of acres.And each one had had specific things
that you could tell werecatered to the guests they wanted
to attract. And I realizedthat I needed to hone in on that.
Before I developed my site andpersonalizing this guest experience,

(25:13):
one reason why I, you know,going staying in these sites, I learned
quickly. I would go with mygirlfriend and we would see like
we wanted to create a couple'sretreat. Basically coming from Houston,
we knew we were by a majorfeeder city that didn't have anything
like it in the area and wewanted to be able to build this type
of guest avatar for them. Wenoticed quickly that you know, the

(25:35):
more space you have in betweensome of these sites, the, the higher
ADR you can get average dailyrate and then the more space you
have within them too, the moreamenities you can pack in for that
particular structure thatyou're building. I, I knew that private
amenities were going to drivea much higher occupancy and an average

(25:56):
daily rate for what I wantedto do with my guest avatar and so
personalizing that experiencefor them. Each unit has its own private
hot tub. Each unit has its ownprivate sauna. I, I knew that those
type of things were going tobe able to really draw the impact
that I wanted to from youknow, different couples, guests and
things. And as we've developedthe site and had it going on further,

(26:18):
I have a hospitalitybackground. I went to school for
hotel management. So I knewthe one key that I always wanted
to implement with when Istarted attracting guests was figuring
out, you know, what, whatbrings them to the site or what brings
their interest to the site andthen how they heard about us because
we knew that that was going tobe able to really customize the experience,

(26:40):
forthemgoingforwardwithhowwecan, youknow, addtheselittletouches
tomakesurethatthey'retheirstayiswordof mouthmarketingisby
farthebest thingyoucanhavefromanyof thesetypeofsitesbecauseobviously
thespendisisisnexttonothing.You're,you'rehaving payingguestsgiveyou
thesocialcurrencyyouneedonsocial mediaandthese type ofthingslikethattodrawin.Usually

(27:04):
yourgueststhathavealreadystayedwithyouhavelikeminded friendsandlikemindedpeopleintheircircle
thatwouldwanttodosimilarthings.So wealwayswouldtendto,wealwayswould,wouldaskthem
onourfirst, youknow,messagestothemis,youknow,areyoucelebrating anything?Andhowdid
youhearabout us? Thosearetwothings thatIreallytriedto honeinonand
thenwewouldmakesurethatweprovidedastopnotchofanexperiencethat wecouldbut

(27:29):
reallyplayintosomeevensimplethings likeifaguestiscomingbecausethey
wanttoCelebratetheiranniversary,whichisbyfar probablythebiggestcelebritybetween
birthdaysandanniversaries,thebiggestamountof gueststhat we
coming because they want tocelebrate happy birthdaycard orahappy
anniversarycard willgoalongwayforthemtogivethatsocialcurrencygoingforward.I'vehadnumerousguests getthesecardsandthenthey

(27:54):
postitontheirInstagramortheypostitontheir Facebook
andliketalkaboutthethoughtfullittletouchesthat you
can putinto each,eachgueststay.Andevenacooltrickwe'veimplementedrecentlytopersonalizeit evenmore.
TalkingaboutAIspecificallyiswewillgettheguestname,we'llhavesometypeof AIsystem,chat,GTorsomethingtowriteaverysimplesongof20to30secondsinlyrics.Andthenthere's,

(28:22):
there'sappsouttherefor$5amonththatyoucanputtheselyricsinanditwillmakethe quickestcustomsongthatyou,youcanhavefortheguest.Andthisissomethingwesend
we'll have some type of AIsystem, chat-GPT or something to
write a very simple song of 20
But they'll share it andthey'll remember it. And now, yep,
all the time.
The amount of people that haveshared this on their social media

(28:44):
and tagged us in it, like,look at this cool feature that, that
somebody sent us. We're goingto stay. And then that just starts
the snowball for the, the wordof mouth bookings to start rolling
in, which is, you know, theholy grail of, of, of any marketing
person is getting that word ofmouth out there and doing unique
things like that, utilizing AIand really just trying to understand

(29:06):
why the guest chose yourproperty out of the, the myriad of
options they have to donowadays. They can, they could go
stay in a five star hotelsomewhere, they could go stay at
a campground, they could, youknow, go to. There's so many things
people can do nowadays too. Sothe people that have actually decided
to book at your property andspend money with you, you showing
them how much you care withlittle personalized things like that

(29:29):
is, is the thing that goesabove and beyond and they're going
to, to, you know, talk, talkhighly about you for, for weeks,
months, years to come abouthow good of how, you know, how pleasing
of a time they had and howwelcomed and, and heard they felt
going to your property. Andthat's, that's all we really wanted
to implement when we, youknow, we're starting this kind of
venture to really just hone inon that guest experience and provide

(29:52):
something above and beyond.
I think we've got a lot that Iwant to dive into there in a few
minutes because that'ssomething that obviously I'm passionate
about with AI and justpersonalization too, from a marketing
side of it. But I want to backup just briefly and talk to Kevin
and Zach about 'cause Zach youdo branding too, don't you? Okay,

(30:12):
so I'd love to just talk aboutthat buyer Persona piece with each
of you and I, andspecifically, like, maybe you can
start, Zach, because you dolike branding as a thing, right.
But then, Kevin, I'm curiousbecause you, you kind of come with
at least one built in buyerPersona, which is the KOA loyalist
to your property. But then howdo you expand those and look at those
from your perspective?

(30:35):
Well, yeah, it's, I mean, it'sa good point. Right. The. When we
look at our parks and any timewe're evaluating a new property,
we'll look at what's thehistory of the guests and how many
people are coming backmultiple times. You know, are they
coming back every year? Theycome in multiple times per year.
And if we dig into thenumbers, I mean, we've seen some

(30:55):
parks where the KOA rewardsmembers are, you know, 65 to 70%
of overall guests and revenuethat's being driven by that. Right.
So that's a big, that's a bignumber. It's a big draw. And so we
know, we know who they are, weknow why they're coming, and it helps
us tailor to them. And then,you know, to, to try and build out

(31:17):
more, you know, a biggerdemographic of campers, people who,
who haven't been to our parksbefore. It's a combination of a few
things of, you know, justsome, some basic blocking and tackling
of how do we make our parksmore visible, more visually appealing.
Right. So you're going throughthe SEO process, making sure we have

(31:38):
good photography and, andvideos on our websites that we're
marketing, you know, all thereasons why people would want to
come there. So one of thethings we've been doing the last
couple years is trying tofigure out itineraries so, you know,
to really make things simplefor, for people. Okay, if you're
going to come to this area,here's three days of all the places

(31:59):
you can go and see and what toeat, what to do, and so they don't
have to think about it. Right.So that's, that's one thing we're
doing. And then, you know,we're, we just brought on a new Role
in house for a content creatorwith the. The goal of really building
out organic social mediapresence to promote and try and get

(32:23):
that like Garrett was talkingabout. Right. That word of mouth.
And how do we, you know,instead of just doing the basic paid
ads and pay per click thatthat we've been doing and people
have been doing for so long,that can work well, but isn't really
gonna solve those problems.Right. Is there's so much.
Yeah.
It's not. Yeah. It's notcheap. You can spend a lot. And the
reality is like, to fill toyour question, how do we get people

(32:47):
who are non KOA campers tocome? We need to reach the broadest
audience possible. And there'sa lot of people out there who are
just looking for experiencesand they don't know about. They,
you know, they don't know thatcampgrounds like what we run, what
they're really like, you know,they're thinking state parks, they're
thinking national parks. Theydon't realize that we have luxury

(33:07):
sites and high end amenitiesand, you know, these types of experiences.
And so the more we can do toshow what it's like to actually stay
at one of our properties, themore likely we'll be in attracting,
attracting that new audience.And also like the, the shift in the
camper demographic over thelast few years. Right. It's, it's

(33:30):
completely flipped to wherenow I think the latest stat that
I saw is 50% of new campersare under the age of 35. Right. So
we're now trying to target awhole different type of avatar.
Yeah, that's fascinating tome. And Zach, I want to get to you
in a second, but that'sfascinating to me what you just said
about like getting people tounderstand what your camp, what our

(33:53):
campgrounds. Well, yourcampgrounds we've already established
I'm not brave enough to ownone. What your campgrounds and RV
parks and resorts and glampingplaces, you know, whether they have
cabin rentals or not offer.Because a lot of people don't understand
this, you know, the firsttime. And really like I've thought
about this from a marketingaspect for years, but I've never
really put myself in theposition of doing that until I met

(34:15):
Earl from Black Folks CampToo, who's a really good man and
he has a message of like, youknow, there's a lot of underserved
black people who don'tunderstand the outdoors, period.
Right. Like they've just neverbeen exposed to it. And then I just
started kind of going on Adownward, I don't know, downward
spiral. That's not the rightword. Right. But just a deeper research

(34:36):
path into looking into that.And I'm realizing, like Scott Bahr
and I were looking at Gen Zresearch of how to convince Gen Z's
who stay in hotels normally orAirbnbs to come stay at campgrounds
or cabin rentals. You know,why, what's the experience? What's
the, the, the pitch there? Andthat's the same thing. They just
have no idea that there areactually luxury experiences available

(34:59):
at campgrounds, I don't think.And so it's more than just black
folks. It's a lot of peoplewho have not been exposed to this.
Because, and I'm going to goout on a limb here and say that there's
been a lot less marketing togroups that are not full time RVers
who have been doing it for 20,40 years. And some by age perhaps

(35:22):
that demographic is shrinking.And so now there's perhaps an impetus
for us to, to do that a littlebit more. Is that fair?
Yeah, I think, I think that'sprobably fair. I mean, I'll admit
before I bought my firstcampground, which happened to be
a KOA, I' never been to onebefore. I'd seen the signs but didn't,
like, if I'm being totallyhonest, I didn't know that it was

(35:43):
a campground that was open tothe public. I didn't, I thought it
was either private or like ascout camp or something. You know,
I had, I really had no ideawhat it was. And so that was a little
eye-openinforme.But Icome fromthebackgroundofifI'mgoing camping,I'mgoingto
throweverythinginabackpackandgo upinthemountainsasfaras
can takemeandthenI'llgo,youknow,hikeup themountain.Andso

(36:03):
there arealotofpeoplethatjustaren'tfamiliar withwhat
itis.Likeyousaidthattraditionally,especially withinthe
KOAworld,whereit'sreally,youknow,heavilycateringtowardsRVers andnotjust,youknow,campers.Right.It's,it's,there'sa,there's
adifferencetherebetween,yes,youknow,yourtraditional tentcamper
andanRVer.Right.Andsoitis,itismakingitpossiblefor peopletoknowwhat

(36:29):
they canexperienceataparklikethis,even if theydon't
haveanrv.Right.Like,howmanypeoplereallyunderstandhowniceitistostay atan
outdoorresortin if they don'thave an RV. Right. Like, how many
people really understand hownice in aseparatebedroom thanwhatyou're
in,plusyou haveoutdoorspace,plusyoucan take your

(36:51):
dogs.You know,that's.Thatwhenpeoplerealizethat.Andthedifferenttypes,youcouldstillbeinthesamemarkets, gotothesameplaces,butit'sawholedifferenttypeof
experience.And, youknow, it'snotthatIwanttobagon hotels,becauseIstayinthemalot,
and,youknow,Icanenjoy them,butifIhadtheoptionofa nice cabinin acampgroundora,youknow,standard

(37:13):
doublequeenhotelroom,I'dmuchrather stayinthecampground.
Well, that takes us back towhat Zach's going to talk about here,
right, which is the buyerpersonas, is that there are definitely
a lot of people like you,Kevin, who would do that. But there
are also people who are like,no, I want. I don't want to walk
to my cabin when it's rainingoutside. How dare you make me do
that? Right? But. But thereare people, then, that are other

(37:34):
ways that you can convincethem to stay that, you know, even
though they have that. I don'twant to call it a negative experience,
but. Because I don't thinkit's negative either. I would stay
the same place as you, Kevin.But there's that. That goes back
to understanding that buyerpersona, doesn't it?
Yeah. Well, and, like, youdon't have to capture the entire
market, right? There's a wholeriver that's flowing by, and all

(37:55):
you need is a ladle, and yougot to find a spot by the river and
just start scooping out.Right. We're not trying to capture
every traveler, but there's alot of people that I think would
really enjoy the experiencesthat we can offer. We just need to
make sure that they know thatit's an option.
All right, Zach, I'm shuttingup. I'm sorry.
Yeah, I think. I mean, I'decho a lot of that. And I've actually

(38:17):
got some. Some questions forGarrett and Kevin both. You know,
part of what we do when westart a project, I mean, before we
put pen on a paint, pen onpaper, or. or, you know, draw anything,
is we start by doing a sitevisit. And Kevin kind of talked about

(38:38):
that, like, before they buy apark, they. They want to check out
that area. You know, designingfor the guest experience, it's not
just about, you know, pickinga tent or a cabin or a covered wagon.
It's really about telling astory. And it starts with an evaluation
of not only the property thatwe want to build on or the campground

(38:59):
that they're buying, but it'swhat's in that area. So, you know,
Kevin, when you talked aboutlike, we built these like two day,
you know, excursions or threeday excursions, like, here's the
itinerary, here's what werecommend. That's phenomenal and
that's great. I think from adesign perspective, a lot of that

(39:20):
has implications too on whatwe decide to develop. You know, we,
we looked at a property lastyear. It was in South Carolina and
it was very near a kind ofquaint little mountain town. We went
downtown that night, we walkedaround. It's a healthy, vibrant downtown.
There was lots of, with likenew businesses that had been built

(39:41):
or opened. And I think Icounted 14 different restaurants
or bars or places to eat. Andthis is five minutes from our site.
So, you know, coming back tostart that design phase, you know,
the client said, well, youknow, we need a store and we need
a restaurant because we reallywant to cater to families and kids.

(40:04):
So we want a full kitchen, afull blown restaurant. And I said,
why? We, we've got 15 greatmom and pop restaurants and bars
and things five minutes downthe road. Like, we don't need to
make a big investment in F&Bon this property because you have
it, it's all around you. And,and by the way, that's their business
and they're going to do itbetter than you do. And so understanding

(40:26):
what's there, prioritizingthat and then, then secondly is,
you know, part of what we gothrough is just kind of what you
talked about. It's whatGarrett talked about, deciding like,
who is my ideal guest, who ismy target guest, building out a profile
for them, you know, call it anavatar or whatever. But we've identified

(40:51):
like these are our two orthese are our three kind of main
customer demographics thatwe're shooting for. And then figuring
out if we're going to appealto that person, what do they want,
what is, what's going to maketheir stay more comfortable, what's
going to, you know, draw thatperson, attract that person to come
here. But also what is in thearea that we would consider as competition

(41:16):
and what is not. And how canwe differentiate ourselves? Because,
you know, again, if we're, ifit's just about making money, it's
providing an accommodationonly and a good price point, it's
a race to the bottom. Whatseparates and differentiates outdoor
hospitality is that we'redelivering more than just a stay.

(41:37):
It comes down to that wholeguest experience beginning to end,
have we told a story? Are theygetting what they expected? Is our
messaging consistent with whatwe see from that person or that resort
on Instagram and then on theirFacebook page and then on their website
and then in their emailmarketing and messaging that they

(41:58):
get to us in the text messagethat we get after we book our reservation,
in the messages that we, weget? And then when we walk in that,
that, you know, office orcheck in or we walk into our unit
for the first time, is all ofthat consistent? Because consistency
with brand delivers trust.And, and the two things that, you

(42:20):
know, you, you can't buy inthe word of outdoor hospitality is
trust and authenticity. Youcan't fake it, you can't buy it.
You've got to deliver it, andyou got to deliver it consistent
every single time. And so Ithink it's. When I think about guest
experience, it needs to beinterwoven into every single part

(42:42):
of what you're doing. It's notjust the design of your site or the
interior design of your units.It's. It's that consistent brand.
And, you know, we've seen,especially over the last, you know,
year or two years, I, I'veseen examples where it's been done
really, really well. And, andthese are the, the places that are.
They're printing money andit's like, it's, it's not, it's not

(43:05):
a difficult equation to figureout. Like, there's no magic to this.
They're. They're doing thevery basic stuff. They're just doing
it really, really well. Andthey're building that trust. They're
building relationships withtheir clients, and they're consistent
across the board at doing itevery single time. And so that's
to kind of tie those twoworlds together of what I do from

(43:28):
a design and permitting andarchitecture perspective back to
guest experience. You know,there's no one big thing that is
the answer to guestexperience. It is. It's every single
little thing.
Yeah, you're totally right.It's. It's the. It's an aggregation
of little things doneconsistently. It's easier said than

(43:49):
done. Right. And, yeah, we'llall slip up from time to time, but,
you know, if that's the focusof how do we just do one thing a
little bit better today thanwe did yesterday and just keep moving
forward with that mindset,then over time, it'll compound for
sure.
And what am I? Go ahead.
One of my questions for you,Kevin, was, you know, you mentioned

(44:09):
that you guys have ninedifferent sites now, and are in several
different states. Because somuch of what we just talked about
is region specific, is sitespecific. I want you to talk about
maybe some of the challengesthat you've had in having vastly
different states, differentregions, different locations, and

(44:32):
then maybe give us a littlepeek into whether that's, like, back
a house or your internalprocess or a consistent, you know,
thing that you go through orif it's just been. No, we didn't.
And we made a mistake here,and we learned from it. We learned,
you know, we did somethinghere that didn't work either. So
we learned from it. And now,like, how. How has your process changed?

(44:56):
Well, we joke a lot internallythat, you know, the only thing that
is consistent in our businessis change. Not all of our people
like that, to be honest.Right. Is the change is hard and
uncomfortable, but most peopledon't. Yeah, yeah. We've. We've done
this, you know, enough timesthat we've learned that it's never

(45:17):
cookie cutter. And when you'redealing with, like you said, different
states, different counties,different jurisdictions, different,
you know, if I'll go out on alimb and say, egomaniacal building
departments and things likethat. Right. Like, you. You.
That's not going out on a limb.

(45:37):
Yeah. Just, you know, I'm notgonna say where, in case, you know,
anyone's listening. I knowBrian's really popular, so I.
Think being a sadist is aprerequisite to be a plans reviewer
in most counties.
Yeah.
Check this week. There's fourpeople who are list who are watching.
Guaranteed.
Yeah. Well, then at least it'snot someone from every one of our
parks. No, it's like we. Yeah,Zach, we. We've made a lot of mistakes,

(46:04):
and we have made assumptionswhere we thought that we'd be able
to do things in a certain timeframe or do it in a certain way.
And some of that's based offof past experience. So one of the.
One of the benefits of being aKOA franchise is they have a whole
design department thatsupports franchisees. Right. And
so we can go to them and say,you know, here's our park. Here's

(46:26):
these five acres. Here's ouroccupancy data by site type. Help
us figure out what makes themost sense. Right. A lot of the stuff
that you're talking about thatyou can do for your clients. So we
can come up with those plans,and they can do CAD drawings and
do the electrical, you know,amp draws and voltage drops, calcs
and a lot of things. And we'vehad experiences where that's all

(46:49):
we've needed to take to thecity or county. And we've had other
instances where we've takenGoogle Maps screenshots, and with
an iPad and some coloredpencils drawn, okay, here's the road,
and here's where the RV sitesare going, and, you know, here's
the. Where the water lines aregoing to be. And some people are
okay with that. And then, youknow, we've had others where we feel

(47:10):
like it's just cut and dry.And it takes 18 to 24 months to get
approved because it's. It'sthe building department, then it's
the Department of Environmentcomes in, and then it's the state,
and then to the city. And, youknow, we're going through the same
process multiple times and canbe really frustrating because we've

(47:32):
already got the approvals, butsomeone else feels like they need
to put their stamp on it. Andthen some people come in and say,
you know, we don't needengineered stamps. But then if you
say the wrong thing and upsetthe wrong person, then they say,
well, I have the authority torequire you to get these plans stamped
by an engineer, so get readyto write another $20,000 check for
this. And so I, you know, Idon't know if I have a real answer

(47:56):
to your question, Zach, otherthan every time we go through it,
we learn something new and wetry and improve our processes, and
we just recognize thatinternally, we. We. It's not our
skill set. We're notengineers. We're not architects.
So we. Last year, we broughton someone in house as a construction
project manager who had a lotof experience with another operator

(48:18):
going through that and doinglarge projects. And so, you know,
just. I think it's importantjust to recognize where you have
a gap and try and findsomeone, whether it's hiring them,
whether it's finding the rightcontractor or vendor or partner.
And so the. The hope is thatevery time we go through one of those
projects, we get it a littlebit better and then update our process

(48:40):
and our system so that when wedo it again the next time, you know,
we get better again.
But there's no the bureaucracyproblem, right?
No, you can't. And there's no.There's no silver bullet for any
of this.
Well, there is, actually. I,like, give Elon a few months and,
like, maybe we can bring himinto the cities for the campground
permitting.

(49:02):
Well, let us. Let us know howthat goes. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's.
You know, it's always going tobe. It's always going to be a struggle,
but at the end of the day,it's worth it because there's so
much value you can add tothese properties by going through
it. So, you know, it's. Somepeople, some people don't want to
do it. We've bought. We'vebought campgrounds from owners who

(49:23):
have been overbooked and hadso much demand and so limited inventory,
but they've refused to. To doanything because it would require
scaling up their operation,and that's not what they want to
do. So that's a greatopportunity for us. Yeah. You know,
and so it's just. It's not foreverybody. And, you know, one of

(49:43):
the things that we. We've beentrying to. The puzzle we've been
trying to solve is how can wecan. How can we be the group that
can do this effectively so wecan deliver to our investors on the
things that, you know, we. Webelieve are possible with these properties
when we buy them?
Garrett, go ahead. Sorry, Iknow I keep cutting you off by accident.

(50:03):
Oh, no, I just think those areall very valid points, that it's.
Every single city and planningdepartment, everything is going to
be totally different. Evenwhen I was developing mine, I was
picking between two countiesnearby, and one was I. I talked to
local contractors to get anidea of what their thoughts were,
you know, and unique buildsand things. And one, and I had a

(50:25):
few great pieces of advice,like, hey, this county is going to
make you, you know, run fortwo, you know, two years before you
get a permit on something likethis. This other counties a little
more lax. You probably shouldlook to. To them. And yeah, it was.
It was just kind of night andday, and they were next neighboring
counties, you know, so you'renever. There's never a one size fits
all for it. But, you know,understanding these things, learning,

(50:47):
enhancing your processes and,and start. I. I personally started
smaller so I could learn someof these things. And then for my
next bigger projects, I'llhave a little more, you know, experience
under my belt to be preparedfor these kind of things, too, because
you don't know what you don'tknow until you tackle some of these
projects. Because, you know,there's not. There's not a exact

(51:07):
bible to this for any type ofstructures that you're building like
this.
Zach, did you say you had aquestion for Garrett earlier? I can't
remember. You might havecovered it.
Yeah. So, Garrett, youmentioned. And it kind of curtails
into just what you weretalking about, where every jurisdiction
is different and that's partof the value of working with professionals.

(51:28):
You mentioned that you got oneof your domes permitted for year
round use and I've done thatand in some very difficult jurisdictions
for some of our clients. Talka little bit more about that process.
Was it just building codeissues? Was it energy code, was it

(51:49):
H Vac? Maybe talk about someof the challenges and the changes
what, what you did differentthat allowed you to do that.
I think the main thing that Ican like really give advice to people
on is if, especially if forgeodomes in particular or other structures

(52:09):
is buy from a reputablecompany that has architecture plans
from them already. Likethere's you people. I bought mine
from Pacific Domes. I, youknow, they have architecture plans.
Yeah, they're more expensivethan other ones because you, you
get, you'll get you know, adsall day for buying one off Alibaba

(52:30):
or Temu or something and it'svery enticing to get one of those
for $2,000. But one, they'rejust not the same quality and two,
you're not going to be able toprobably get that permitted or get
somebody to make plans forthat to get it a commercial permit.
Like you could have the, like.I wanted full on grid utilities,
I wanted electric, I wanted apremium bathroom, I wanted septic,

(52:52):
all these things. And the onlyway my county was going to allow
that is having these enhancedarchitecture plans that, that were
not cheap. You know, I thinkthey were 3, 3 $4,000. And I had
to get the upgraded steelstructure that was, was more wind
and snow resistant even thoughI'm in Houston, which is hilarious
to say that about snowresistant. But I did not go cheap

(53:15):
on that. And that made my lifeso much easier because I found a
company that had these plans.My next one was a mirror house that's
only 220 square feet. But Iworked with a company that does these
modular, had all the plans,had, had the electrical, had, you
know, plumbing, H Vac, allthese things that are needed by the
county. And it made mypermitting just. I do, I do consulting

(53:38):
for glamping people all overthe country that have tried to build
things and the horror storiesI hear from them trying to get something
permitted like this and thenthey don't, you know, work with a
reputable company orsomething. It, it's, it's almost
next to impossible. Especiallyas this is growing and everybody
is really trying to developdifferent things like this. That,

(53:59):
that it. Pacific Domes made mylife so much easier that I can only.
The only thing I can attest tois just don't go cheap on that and
don't think you're going to beable to, to skirt that because it
is something that is yourcounty, if they have any, you know,
any bit of pushback on it,it's going to be on those type of
plans that you have or yourlack of plans, you know, and then

(54:19):
you have to pivot and youknow, then you're talking a whole
different type of operationthat you may be developing that you
weren't anticipating.
You're, you're probably goingto pay for it one way or another.
It's either an upfront costfor a higher quality product. With
those plans, you're going topay for it in your time if you go
cheap and have to go back andforth or you're going to pay for

(54:40):
it in lost occupancy, poorguest satisfaction.
Right.
Like there's any number ofoutcomes and it's not that I'm saying
and we definitely don't justlike find the most expensive thing
and do that, but you have toconsider those things, right? Like,
you know, budget is importantand you got to plan for it and you
got to stick to it. But to theextent that you can get ahead of

(55:03):
some of these things and likeI said before, get some momentum,
that's worth a lot more thantrying to save a few bucks. Right.
You know, stepping overdollars to save dimes. It just doesn't
make a whole lot of sense withif you're in, you always get long
term paid for and.
You get what you don't pay for too.
Yeah. It all comes down to thefact that you have to do the work,

(55:24):
you have to do the legwork.Just like you're saying it's not
always the most expensive one.Like it could be, but like in a lot
of cases it's not. But youhave to look into what exactly you
need and what that company'sprovided. And all the. Just like
Garrett was talking about,talking to the different contractors
in the different counties.Like it just requires work, which
again, another reason why I'msitting here in a studio because

(55:44):
my head hurts just with youguys. I can't even imagine what I
would be like in front of aplanning board. They'd kick me out
in about five minutes, so.
Well, you can take that sameconcept, Brian, and apply it towards
how you're interacting withyour guests. Right. Like the, the
unfortunately, the mentalityis as. Well, everything's about price.

(56:04):
So if I give somebody adiscount or if they're upset And
I give them a refund orsomething that's going to solve all
their problems. But it's, it'snot usually it' being willing to
put in the effort to, to showup for them to create a personal
touch like Garrett was talkingabout, you know. And yeah, it's a
little bit of an investment oftime and, and effort and just headspace.

(56:28):
But again, you get what youpay for, you get what you're willing
to put into it. So, you know,just offering the cheapest rates
in town is not necessarilygoing to give you the best guest
experience.
100. Yeah, I, I don't think weever got to the discussion I said
I was going to have aboutpersonalized guest experiences. So
maybe we'll have to tacklethat next week. Maybe. Garrett, we'll

(56:51):
see if you can come back onhere, if you want to come back on
here, talk about some of thepersonalized guest experiences in
a month or something. Becauselike, that's really important to
dive into. Like we did thatyears ago when cheap chat GPT 3.5
came out. I had like a formthat was never public, but it was
internal that I built foractually Verity Ranch RV Resort where
you just put in your nameinside a form or whatever and then

(57:13):
put in and then you hit submitand it would trigger like a zapier
automation and it would gothrough AI and write that like obviously
they're way, way better now.And now like you're talking about
you can use something like aSuno or a, I can't remember the,
the name of the other musicgenerators to actually put music
to it. Right. But doing thosekinds of things, that's what excites
me about the future is, isthe, the ability of technology to

(57:34):
unlock better guestexperiences. Because I think previously
all a lot of the talk aroundtechnology has been it's maybe makes
you more efficient, but itdoesn't necessarily. Isn't necessarily
a good thing. Think a phonetree, right? Or something like that.
It isn't necessarily betterfor the guest experience. But now
I think for the first timeever, we can have both. We can have

(57:54):
a better guest experience andcheaper operations. And that's amazing.
So I think the thing too, andI think Kevin alluded to this earlier,
if you have a. Automation, asystem, this takes me, like Garrett
said, this takes five minutesand it runs it through and we do

(58:16):
it. That's freeing you up toalso take care of the other parts
of that business. Right? I'veseen it happen time and time, you
know, walking on some of theseproperties where there's, there's
10, 20 years of deferredmaintenance and just everything has
been neglected. And you couldtell that they're just flying by

(58:37):
to the sea of their pants andjust putting out each fire every
day. But they're never gettingahead and they're never delivering,
you know, a really premiumexperience because they're trying
to do everything. And so, youknow, the more that you can automate,
the more that you can makepassive streamline, put systems in
place, work with professionalsto take some of that, those things

(58:59):
off your plate. That frees youup to really focus on just being
an operator, just being thatpersonality, engaging with guests.
You know, if you're notrunning around putting out fires
for everything, then, then youhave the ability to sit down and
spend that five minutes and dosomething fun and unique and personalized
for your guests.

(59:20):
Yeah, that's totally key.Right. Buying back your time is only
useful if you refill it withother value add tasks.
It's the full circle executionof everything. Right. I just posted
on LinkedIn. I know. You're abig reader, aren't you, Kevin?
I know how to read.
Yes, well, but you post aboutyour books that you're reading on
a regular basis, don't you? Isee that on LinkedIn. That's why

(59:40):
I'm calling you out for it.But like I posted on LinkedIn yesterday,
I can't remember where I cameup with this thought process. It
was some, sometime late lastnight. But just like reading is only
the first step, what do youactually do when you're done reading?
And very few, like we alwayssee the, and I'm not saying this
is from you, Kevin, at all,but like generally speaking, just
all over social media, youhear people say, I'm reading this

(01:00:00):
book, I'm reading this. I'velearned how to do this. Okay, what
have you done after you'redone reading the book? You just read
the segmentation, right?
Yeah, yeah. Like one of thethings I've started doing, Brian,
and probably can attributethis to you, I feel like if I don't
do more with AI, then you'llcut me out of your life. But like

(01:00:23):
as I'm reading or listening toa book, when I'm done, I'll go in
and I'll ask Chat GPT tosummarize that chapter, those pages,
what are the, what are the keytakeaways? What are the highlights?
What are the quotes? And soyou kind of create your own Cliff
Notes as you're doing it andthen sharing that out with my team.
Putting that into, like, youknow, the. The weekly or monthly

(01:00:43):
or quarterly goals, if it'ssomething that I feel like is. Is
going to be beneficial for ourteam, that we need to do. Yeah, using
that, right? Not just readingit, hearing it, feeling good about
it, but how do you take it andthen push it forward and do something
with it?
100. All right, we're runningout of time here. You guys have any
final thoughts? I hate to cuta conversation short, but I've got
another podcast in an hour.Zach, any final thoughts?

(01:01:11):
I think the biggest takeawaythat I got from this conversation
is, you know, I talk to threeto four people a week about new properties,
new projects, you know, landthey're considering buying, or we're
going to buy this wholecampground. And, you know, we. We
always get to that discussionpoint of, what is this going to cost

(01:01:33):
me? And I've always felt likeour fees are very, very reasonable.
I tell them, usually you'regoing to pay less to work with us
than it costs you to evenbuild one glamping unit or renovate
two RV spaces. So I see valuein it. But the thing that just really
jumped out at me for thisdiscussion was that both Garrett

(01:01:56):
and Kevin have somebody thatthey worked with, and they found
value in that, and it savedthem time in the long run, it saved
them money. So it's nice tohear, especially the glamping industry
in general, I think, kind ofstarted with a very kind of grassroots
bootstrap. I'm going to go setthis up on my backyard, kind of operators.

(01:02:20):
And as the industry's evolvedand we've gotten a lot more sophisticated
and planning departments arewaking up, like, I don't always see
that from operators in thisspace. So that was a big thing. Big
key takeaway for me thatjumped out was that both of you weighed
in on that, that that made abig difference in the stuff that

(01:02:43):
you've done. And I telleverybody, like, you don't have to
work with me, but please workwith somebody. Don't try to do it
all on your own.
You know, Kevin, I.
You know, I only have so manygood thoughts. I gotta save them
for the next time. I don'twant to run out in February and not
have anything valuable to saythe rest of the year.

(01:03:04):
Kevin, you're buying a newpark. Think of all the ideas that's
going to come from that.
Well, I've already. Yeah, I'vealready got the ideas.
Where's it at?
Pennsylvania.
Nice.
So I'll be our second park inPennsylvania. We Close end of the
month.
Nice.
Well, you can tell us allabout it maybe next month once it's
public.
And I will. So I will.

(01:03:25):
Thank you, Kevin, for beinghere. As always, Garrett, final thoughts.
This is just, I, I agree withZach, how he kind of framed it, that
it's always refreshing to hearpeople with going into the mindset
of, you know, this type ofindustry thinking about it in a much
larger scale, you know, and itreally just adds value to everybody
in this industry as we kind oflift the space up as a whole. You

(01:03:48):
know, a lot of people don'tknow about these type of experiences
that we were able to provide.And people, they're seeing people
in the space that are doing itright and trying to really provide
that ideal guest experiencethat they, you know, even if it's
not my, my Glamp site thatthey rent, they rent another one
and they have a greatexperience, they'll tell somebody
else, like, hey, glamping wasawesome, you know, or like, I, I,

(01:04:10):
I think you should check itout. And that just lifts everybody
up as a whole. And it'srefreshing to hear, as you know,
you hear a lot of badoperators and in the short term,
rental space in general, it'sgood to hear people that are really
taking this serious and tryingto provide an experience that people
will hold with them for therest of their lives.
100 percent. I'll have Sharah reac out to you if you really want
to come back in a month andwe'll talk about personalized guest
experiences as part of theshow next month. Is that okay with

(01:04:34):
you, Kevin and Zach if webring him back and.
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. All right, well, thankyou guys for joining us for another
episode of MC Fireside Chats.We'll wrap it up. I know we're a
couple minutes late here. Ihave another podcast coming up in
about, well, less than an hournow called Outwired. If anybody who's
watching wants to join me.It's a little bit different than
this one. It's with myself,Scott Bahr and Greg Emmert, and we
just kind of talk about AI andtech and data. And I think we're

(01:04:56):
going to talk today about theRV industry and whether that bubble
might or might not have burst.A little contrarian opinion there
to get people to watch alittle bit about AI agents and some
other fun things. So we'll seeyou guys later. And otherwise, we'll
see you next week on anotherepisode of MC Fireside Chats. Take
care, guys. See you.
Thank you. Thanks, Brian.