MC Fireside Chats - February 19th, 2025 - MC Fireside Chats

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Searl (00:00):
Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name is Brian Searl with insiderperks slash modern campground slash
whatever else I decide to do on aweekly basis that I can't remember.
From day to day.
Super excited to be back here with youfor our third week kind of episode.
We're focusing on business operations,management, things like that.
So, got a couple of recurringguests here with us.
Mr.

(00:20):
Jeff Hoffman popped in during the intro.
Kind of like, just wanted to surpriseeverybody when you came back.
So, welcome Jeff.
We'll let you brieflyintroduce yourself in a second.
We have Mike Harrison, who's a recurringguest, currently in the car driving.
So, please

Mike Harrison (00:32):
No, no, no.
Undisclosed location.

Please don't ask Mike any hard questions.

You can ask me whatever you want.

Okay.
Sandy Ellingson's here as well.
And then we have two specialguests, Eric and Kelly, who
introduced themselves briefly.
But let's just start withour recurring guests.
Jeff, do you want to go first?

Jeff Hoffman (00:52):
Yes, my name is Jeff Hoffman and my company is Camp Strategy
and what we do is try to work withcampground owners to relieve their stress
of operations and also work with newbuyers and potential buyers to make sure
they're buying the correct campground.

Kelly, have you known Jeff for a long time?
I feel like you maybe do.
Okay, do you like this whole newvibe that Jeff has going on here?
Like with the, and likeit's different, right?

Kelly Jones (01:23):
It looks great.
He looks great

I know, it does look good.
It looks really good.
I'm with you.
Okay.
Sorry.

It's only because my office is 10 degrees and I'm
freezing, so I have a hat on.

It doesn't look like it's 10 degrees behind you.
It looks like you have a niceplunge pool and everything else.

Oh, yeah.

Mike, you want to introduce yourself briefly?

Sure.
Mike Harrison with CRR Hospitality.
We own and operate upscale luxury RVresort and glamping resorts as well as
manufactured home neighborhoods, storageand car wash, and we also do consulting,
pre development, and then third partymanagement for other owners as well.
And if you've seen Jeff in a hat,I've actually seen him in a suit.

(02:03):
So

The hat looks better.
I saw the picture of the suit in DC.
The hat looks better.
I think.
It is.
You just got a totally different vibe.
Sandy, you want to introduce yourself?

Sandy Ellingson (02:16):
I'm Sandy Ellingson.
I'm a retired technologyconsultant who found her way
into the RV industry as an RVer.
And I serve as an advocate betweenthe industry, which is those who
make the RVs and campgrounds.
Mostly, I am a big advocate formy campgrounds and I believe that
none of us can succeed unless weunderstand the importance of our

(02:37):
campgrounds and what they contribute.
You know, just to the entire experience.
So I love doing that.
And that's what I do.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here.
Sandy.
Eric, let's go with you first.
Want to introduce yourself real quick.

Eric Stumberg (02:51):
Yep.
I'm Eric Stumberg.
I'm the co founder andCEO of TangoInternet.
And we design, build and managewired and wireless connections
and for the hospitality industry.
Focused primarily on campgroundsand marinas and some other things.
So, it's nice to be here.

Welcome back.
We've had you on theshow before, haven't we?
I'm pretty sure we did.
It's been a while, butwe're glad you're here.

It's been a while.
I had hair the last timeBrian, just to let you know.
So just kidding.
But I like Jeff's hat.
So I, I would, I like the, ifhe turns it around, you've got a
Michael Jordan right there too.
So we're going to, I'lllook forward to that, Jeff.

It's actually, you know what?
I hadn't thought aboutthat, but that's good.
Yeah.
Like, I think we shouldall get hats next time.
Just to like vibe with whateverJeff's outfit is every week.

I'll send out a memo as to what

we need to plan in advance.
Cause I got to go shopping.
So yes, please.
Or at least have AmazonPrime deliver me something.
Kelly.

Hi, I'm Kelly Jones.
I'm the vice president ofoperations at Great Escapes RV
Resorts based out of Houston.
And prior to this, I was the vicepresident of operations for, at
the time, Leisure Systems whichis the franchisor for the Yogi
Bear Jellystone Park Camp Resorts.
And prior to that, my family ownedand operated the largest privately

(04:07):
owned Jellystone in the system andactually in the state of Illinois, the
largest campground in Amboy, Illinois.
So we got into this crazy businessas a family in 1976 and have
been plugging along since then.

How do you solve the fact that you don't really age every
year because I haven't figured itout yet and I'll get older every
year and uglier you apparently don't.
I've known you for a long time.

Oh, I do.
Trust me.
Trust me.
I'm a grandma now.
So, definitely aging on a regular basis.

Well, I want to start with you, Kelly, because I think like,
obviously the theme of this overall showis business operations and management.
I think.
We definitely want to dive into theways that Great Escapes excels at that
and some of the things you do withthat, but I'd love to start with just,
it's kind of conference season, right?
With some of the smaller trade shows.
I know you're a bigspeaker at those shows.
How are they going so far?

(05:04):
What are you, cause that's a bigpart of business operations and
management, is continuing theeducational process, learning,
networking, things like that, right?

Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, obviously we startin November we own a KOA and we
own nine jellystones, and then wehave six of our own private brand.
So between going attending OHI,attending the KOA conference,
attending the jellystone conference.
We also always, I personally attendthe Gatlinburg gift show in November

(05:36):
to supply our retail venues, youknow, with the greatest trends.
So November is packed full andthen come January, yeah, we
start with a different state.
shows.
Last, I think last week I was in theCarolinas with Dee Witting and her
group and was honored to be the keynotespeaker there to really focus on team

(06:01):
building and experiential team building.
You know, it's the first stepin really providing that much
customer service to our guests.
And the week before that, we had all ofour managers in our brand new Jellystone
Park location in Loudon, Tennessee.
We had all 38 members of theleadership at the park level

(06:24):
come in for a week long training.
Focusing on those exact thingsto building guest service
paying attention to the details.
And then one of the things that we'retaking and continuing forward from our
managers meeting is a weekly book club.
And we're currently readingUnreasonable Hospitality by Joel

(06:44):
I'm going to butcher his last name,so I'll apologize, but Ghadara.
And so we have our first, we have ourkickoff meeting tomorrow, actually,
to get started and kick off the clubso that we can provide that level of
hospitality in all of our properties.

I would love to dive into that team building aspect with
you if you want to real quick with mebecause I think that's often I don't
want to say it's always because there'sobviously great companies like you who
are focusing on it, but I think it'soften overlooked in many businesses,
not just campgrounds and RV parks.
And I don't know if youdisagree with me if you want.
I'm just speaking from maybemy own experience in the
businesses that we've talked to.

(07:25):
But like you talk about businessoperations and management
and there's always that.
There's an efficiency layer, there'sa maybe standard operating procedures,
there's documentation, there's all thethings that typically you would think
go into operations, but I think too manypeople are overlooking the team that
goes into the operations that executesand the SOPs and the documentations
and all those things, right?

(07:46):
Talk to us about why that's soimportant for you at Great Escapes.

Sure.
We just really feel thatit sets the foundation.
You know, when we own and operatedour park every once in a blue
moon, we actually like to take aday off as a family and I don't
know, maybe see each other and dosomething outside of the campground.
And if you don't have that solid team.

(08:11):
That, you know, can provide the level ofservice you want to your guests on your
property that work like a well oiledmachine, for lack of a better word.
Your team and your business is really onlyas strong as your weakest link is, right?
So, by focusing at the beginning of eachseason and then throughout the season and

(08:35):
building relationships within those teams.
So that they can trust each otherto not only do what's right for the
to do what's right for the team.
It's just really crucial.
And I think you know, I have started todo this workshop in a couple different

(08:56):
venues in our industry and initialresponse from quite a few people is.
they kinda roll theireyes and team building.
It's hokey for lack of a better word.
Like, I'm going to make a littlehands and sing Kumbaya, right?
So I was fortunate enough to attendseveral different training sessions

(09:20):
with some great leaders who.
You know, we took train the trainercourses and really have just focused
on and dug deep to really make surethat our teams are focusing on that.
And by having a strong team, we knowthat on the other end, it provides

(09:41):
a better experience for our guests.
People are more willing to help othersthat they have a relationship with,
that they have something in common with.
And you know, we havepeople in our workforce.
Like most campgrounds do 14,15 years old to 80 years old.
And so there's a lot of generationaldifferences on work ethic,

(10:06):
on even meanings and words.
What does it mean tobe loyal to a company?
Looks very different to someonemy age and older than it does
to a millennial and younger.
And not that either is right or wrong.
They're just different.
And so understanding those generationaldifferences when you're trying to
build a team is very important andhelping them to understand each other.

(10:32):
You know, we were all teenagersonce we were all young ones.
We all knew more than our parents did.
And then when we became parents, wefound out that ours were pretty smart.
And you know, it's that evolution.
And so we cut to the chase And helpthat along and help everybody understand
why someone is doing something and showthat a 15 year old does have something

(10:58):
in common with an 80 year old or, youknow, a 50 year old Your team will
work better together, and again, theresult of that on the other end is
a better experience for your guests.
So, really just tryingto make that base firm.

I think what fascinates me about the whole team building aspect
is that there's so many ways to do it.
Right.
There's obviously way more waysto do it wrong, but there's so
many different ways to do it.
Like, I was watching, I think, TomBilyeu's podcast the other day.
I don't know if you guyshave ever watched him.
It's kind of a long form podcast, but hewas playing a clip from Jamie Dimon, the
CEO of Chase, this kind of an undercoverrecorded, like, Kind of he wasn't supposed

(11:39):
to be on camera, but he was cursing sayingthe f word talking about how he can't
handle anybody working from home anymoreBecause the it's just not as efficient
and nobody works together and not as ateam and you can't communicate right.
And like from my aspect like myteam's been working at home, you know,
either was just me in 2011, right?
But forever and I feel like yes, thereare benefits like I agree with them on

(12:01):
one side But I also disagree with themon one side because I feel like well
All of us could always do a better job.
I think we do a pretty good job ofputting an emphasis on culture of
getting people together and teamoutings and gatherings for dinners
and drinks and things like that.
But still, like being successful,like a lot of people say, you
can't do that from work from home.
And so I just, it interests me howthere's so many different ways to

(12:23):
approach the team building aspect.
And I think it's really just getting,and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, Kelly,
because you're clearly more of an experton this than I am, but it's just getting
people to empathize with each other, theirsituations and the guests or the customer,
and then working together to solve acommon solution or common problem that
you're trying to get to a solution for.
Is that right?

Yeah, it really is.
And again, it just, it goes throughbuilding that trust that, you know,
your teammate is always going to do theright thing and for the team, for the
company, for the guest and building thattrust is the essential for everyone.

And it's hard, like it's hard.
Well, it's hard for me anyway, right?
Because like I, you know, I comeout at you, everybody comes out
a problem with their own way oflike, I know how to solve this.
I've been working on thisfor X number of years.
This is exactly how it needs done.
But there could be seven other waysto do it that are equally or even
better than the way you thought.
And so just having that abilityto kind of let go and place that

(13:23):
trust, like the what's the exercisewhere you fall back and let somebody
catch you in the arms, right?
Or whatever.
Having that trust exerciseto know that is yeah.
I think easier for some harderfor me, perhaps, but you're right.
Like you have to get there somehow.
Mike, you have placed a bigemphasis on this CRR too, right?

Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, there's a balance.
There's the on property culture, andthen there's the, if you want to call
it a remote corporate culture andthey all have to integrate and be
seamless, you know, and as Kelly said,you know, Brian, you're expressing it.
And I don't mean to say itthis way, but like, as if it's
commonplace and everybody does it.
But I don't think that's true.

(14:03):
You know, some companiesdon't focus on it at all.
And you can see clearly where, youknow, their Google reviews or their
Glassdoor reviews or their Indeed.
And so I think a lot ofpeople take it for granted.
But it has to be an intentional effort.
And, you know, at CRR, forexample, like you, our leadership
team is entirely remote.
So we work hard at having,you know, touchpoints.

(14:25):
And, we have live meetings onteams all the time with video.
We mandate it.
People chuckle about we have virtualoffice every week, but then we
also have in person meetings atleast 56 times a year to make sure,
because you can't replace thatwater cooler talk, if you will.
But we do, things like strategy sessions,but we always make sure we're intentional.
We do axe throwing or, volunteer daysat the humane society just to make

(14:47):
sure that we're reinforcing the cultureand the communication with each other.
Yeah.
But also as Kelly mentioned, and thisis going to be different for everybody,
how do you manage a culture remotely,for your properties we have in our
budgets built in everyone, everyproperty has associate recognition.
And so we make sure that thereare plans in place to do that.
Every GM does it a little bit differentand that's okay because they have a style.

(15:09):
But you know, for example, this weekis a random acts of kindness week.
Nationally.
And we have a big focus on, sharingthe random acts of kindness.
Sometimes it can be bigger you know,maybe, visiting the senior center and
spending a full day or sometimes it can besmaller holding a door open for someone.
But I think intentional is theimportant word, that we embody.
You know, we do an associateengagement survey every year

(15:31):
which is very important to us.
We're 25 points abovethe industry average.
Our associates fill out a workplacesurvey for the state of Arizona.
We're two years in a row, topplace, top workplace in the state.
So it's, we believe the associatedrives the guest culture.
And listening to Kelly, I'm sureshe, you know, feels the same way.
The associate needs to feel engaged andamazing about the place that they work in

(15:51):
order to deliver those same experiences

for the guests.
So how do owners who are watching theshow and maybe haven't put that kind of
deep thought into team building, becauseas you articulated, it is very true.
I think, I don't want to say most, buta lot of people don't put intentional
thought into the team building.
So whether you're a campground that'slarge like a Great Escapes or a CRR, or
you're an individual mom and pop withmaybe five or ten employees or even

(16:16):
smaller, or you're a Jeff with justGreg and you guys are trying to do team
building remotely how do you, like, whatis, where's the starting point, right?
If I don't know anything aboutteam building, where do I start?

I can keep going unless somebody else has some thoughts.
But you know, go ahead.

No, I was saying go ahead.

Oh, gotcha.
I believe it starts with the leaderand it starts with your values and you
know, or your values something thatjust gets stuck in the wall and never
talked about or do you live them?
And you can have formalized programsand you can have informal programs.
And as you're speaking to, the campgroundowner that might only have three
associates or 50 sites or, 30 associates,it doesn't have to be expensive.

(17:02):
You can certainly do formalizedevents, you know, quarterly
luncheons or an annual holiday party.
But, you can also do simple notecards that cost pennies, as long
as it's thoughtful and that, youreinforce it and that it's regular.
I think that's the important thing, butit starts with the leader and the culture
of the property slash group slash company.
Kelly, you agree?

Absolutely.
And there are a lot of greatauthors and great books out there
that can help you get started.
One author and a speakerthat I have used many times.
His name is Jim Kane.
His website is teamwork and team play.
And he has a ton of free resourcesalong with, I know he's written

(17:46):
over, I'm sure over 16 books.
Thanks.
And some focus very much.
So on how to build your team.
Some also just focus.
He comes from the AmericanCamp Association world.
Like think Boy Scout GirlScout church camps, YMCA camps.
That's kind of where where I ran acrosshim the first time and saw him speak.

(18:10):
And so a lot of the.
A lot of the issues that thosecamps have are very similar
to what our campgrounds have.
They're seasonal employees, they'reyounger, they're trying to keep people
entertained and you know, their employeebase is also very wide and varied.
So his team building ideas getpeople up and out of their seats.

(18:34):
I know during COVID he did a wholething on virtual team building.
So there's books out there on that.
But that he's a great resourceand that's probably where I
would point any individual.
Owner to just Google one of his books.
And if you want to do you know, in theSouth Carolinas, we've used quite a

(18:55):
few props to, to do our team building.
And you can order all of thosethrough him as well on his website.
So, you know, he also has stuff todo that you don't need props for,
but he's a phenomenal resource.
So I would definitely pointpeople in that direction.

And that's, I think the key takeaway for me is like, it sounds if you
step back and look at it from a, I have tobuild my whole team and build this whole
culture and do all the things that Kellyhas done at Great Escapes and Mike's done
at CRR, that's going to be overwhelming.
But if you start small with, just like yousaid, a Google search of this person or.
Go to chat, GBT and ask whereto start or something like that.

(19:32):
Then like it becomes a little less if youtake it in small chunks and then you kind
of figure out where to go from there.
And there's so many differentideas out there, right?
Like, I mean, we could take the reverse.
So we're talking about gettingpeople together who work remotely.
We could take people who work togetherat a campground and just put them in
different cabins and have a virtualmeeting to keep Eric in business at Tango.
Cause somebody like poor Eric, I mean,we're trying to get people together.

(19:55):
It lessens the reliance on Wi Fi,and I want to just make sure that
he's taken care of over here.

I mean, Brian, I just add, I think, so we're
we've been a military friendlycompany, I think, for seven years.
And when we talk about likehiring veterans we always talk
about having a mission andvalues that we're fighting for.
So the first stop is, are, you know,do you have a mission and do you have
values that are worth fighting for?

(20:22):
And I think Kelly and Mikewere referencing that.
Are they clear?
Do you hire?
Do you fire?
Do you reward?
Do you recognize based on, right,those values that are really important?
Right?
So I think that's a big thing.
You know, a friend of mine wastalking about kind of like, hey, you
can't give away what you don't have.
So if you're not developing youremployees, and you're not pouring into

(20:45):
them what you want them to pour outright into your customers, it's not
going to not sustainable or consistent.
And so I think that all thosepractices are really good.
We are remote.
We have probably 25 percentof our employees are remote.
And, but we have a stand up call everyweek where we all meet virtually, right?

(21:08):
And we do some rhythms thatare weekly, monthly quarterly,
annually to try to build, right?
And affirm the coldings that arereally important, so that really
resonated what you're talkingabout, Brian and Kelly and Mike,
even though I do like the remotestuff, it's helpful for the business.

(21:29):
I'm

just teasing you.
We're going to get to Wi Fi in a second.
Jeff, how do you handle this with Greg?
Just two people.
Do you guys like get together forcasino night or go to the bar?

Yeah, actually we have a week, a weekly meeting that we do.
But one of the thingsthat our company does is.
Come into your business and try toteach you how to do team building,
how to get organized, how to usesome systems that will help everybody

(21:58):
get together, create accountability.
I find that employees, if theyknow what the goal is and they
know how you're trying to getthere and you bring them along and
include them in all the discussionswhen you're building procedures,
they're more apt to work with you.

(22:19):
To get that done.
And that's kind of what we try tobring to a business when we come
in is operating systems that willhelp you build teams within it ends
up being everything works together.
Everything needs systems,procedures and all of that.

(22:41):
But that's what helps bring theteam, you know, I learned team
building a long time ago when I wasa kid and I played running back.
Well, if those guys don't like you anddon't block for you, you're going to die.

Yeah.

So it definitely takes teamwork to make anything work.
And all of that is just getting togetherand working on what the problems are.
Keeping an ear open as managers and ownersand listening to your employees, they know

(23:18):
the grassroots portion of your businessand they probably know the solutions.
They just don't want to say,
why do you bring it?
Why do you

think that isn't the human psychology that they're at some?
Cause I think you're very right.
Like some people are in my mind.
It's a, I'm afraid that I won'tbe listened to, or I'm afraid
that I don't have all theinformation and I might be wrong.

Right.
Everybody's always afraid to say anythingand that's how you can't, you've got to
build it into a situation of trust wherethey have the trust in these meetings that
they can open up and say what they have.
It's very difficult.
You don't want to go off as a dumbestthing I've ever heard, but you

(24:06):
want to keep them engaged and thenwork with, because if they bring
it up for them, it is a problemor there's an issue, something.
So you want to have it brought up.
You want to address it.
You want to work around it.
The biggest thing is tolisten and actively listen.

(24:27):
And then interact with them aboutthe problems they're bringing
up and then finding solutions.
If you can sit down and solve problemafter problem with procedures and
systems, eventually you get to run yourbusiness because you're not working
on fires, you're working on growth.

But I think that's part of building trust too, right?
Like building trust for the employeethat they have the ability to speak
up, that they will be listenedto, that they will be, right?
Yeah, so we're all good.
Sorry.

Well, and I think for a long time, particularly
for, let's say, Gen X and older.
And possibly somewhat an older millennial,we were always taught that you didn't
bring a problem to a supervisor unless youalso brought a solution at the same time.
And so if you don't have a solution,I mean, we were actively taught, don't

(25:27):
bring me problems, bring me solution.
Right?
And so there's been a wholeculture shift in the workplace.
That now it's okay to bring problems.
But again, we have such amulti generational workforce.
You know, there's that psychology there.
And again, my generation andolder, we were taught that, we

(25:49):
were to be seen and not heard.
A lot of our ideas were, kind ofput down right from the get go.
So, there's a lot of as you said,Brian, psychology behind it on
why people aren't as forthright.
I have a senior in college andshe's perfectly comfortable
expressing her opinion, right?

(26:11):
But I also have an older daughterwho is nervous to call and make a
doctor's appointment because whatif she doesn't know the answer to
the question they're going to ask?
Okay.
So, there's a lot of, like yousaid, you don't want to look
like you don't know the answer.
So there's a lot of psychology behindpeople not being willing to speak up.

(26:33):
And it does start withbuilding that trust first.

Sandy, do you talk to your campgrounds about this?
I know we've kind of left you out hereup until this point because I don't know.
Do you have a team?
Like, is there a good dealof Sandy's running around?
I do have a team, I do, and it

keeps growing.
But the, yeah, it's interestingbecause I've actually done this in
several campgrounds because of my priorhistory, my consulting firm we had.
I was also mentored this waythroughout my entire career.
So it's very natural for me.
to try and help build teams.
But I like to take a step backand say, you got to hire the

(27:06):
right person to begin with.
And it's the Jim Collins, youknow, put the right person in
the right seat on the right bus.
And then you can truly build a team.
And we did actually go in withone of the large part groups.
They have about 125 to 175employees in their summer.
And of course, a lot of them areseasonal and they come in and.

(27:27):
Like Kelly has said, thereare all these different age
groups and they were very new.
It was their second summerand it basically was horrible.
It was.
During a time when it was really hardto hire, they were taking any warm
body to come in and they were puttingpeople in whatever the first open
position that was most needed was.
And so they brought asked me ifI had any expertise in that area.

(27:49):
I brought in a friend cause I don'tlike to facilitate these things.
But basically what we figured out was.
We call it fruit basket turnoverbecause everybody came in and
we said, welcome to the meeting.
You're all fired.
And then we said, we're going togo through some training and then
there's job descriptions on the boardand you can choose any one of them
as long as you're qualified for it.

(28:11):
And what was amazing was we didn't changea single person, but almost every single
person changed the role they were in.
They had the perfect summer becausethey were put in a position.
That they were designed to do.
We had outgoing people that were stuckin the back making reservations and we
had people who really never wanted tobe seen out front trying to help guests

(28:35):
and neither one of them were happy.
And when we swapped them.
That it was like everybodystarted clicking and then they
were talking to each other andthey're saying, oh, I love this.
They were sharing storiesand I'll help you do this.
And so, and there were a lot ofteam building things that we did.
And so, yeah, I love hearing thatthis is actually going on because
after that happened, I actuallytried to facilitate that with

(28:59):
several other of my smaller parks.
It was a really, Yeah.
You Hard sell because there's somany of them are mom and pops, right?
And those people that are their employeesthat are their families are friends of
their family And they don't feel likethey need this And really it's such an
amazing and freeing thing and ultimatelyit impacts your bottom line because a

(29:22):
better employee And a happier employeeand a better functioning team always
impacts the bottom line in a positive way

Well, and that's the real Goal here, right?
Like, obviously there are much, manymore reasons to do this, caring about
your team, building culture, all thatkind of stuff, but ultimately if you're
on the fence about whether you wantto do this or not, like it is going to
impact your bottom line, your revenue,because it's going to make, as Mike
said, I think Kelly said it too, likeit was going to make the guests happier,
which is just going to cause them totalk about you more on social media or

(29:52):
recommend you to family or friends orcome back for a second stay that summer
instead of just one, one stay, right?
All that's going to impact it.
Like, but it's so much goes intothat impacting of revenue, right?
Like Eric, talk about technologyand how that plays a role, too.
Because these both kind of, to me,are similar in that there's an anti
opinion that's relatively strong.

(30:13):
Actually, Toby O'Rourke postedabout this morning on her LinkedIn.
I was reading about this, how technologycan help the guest experience.
Obviously, I'm a geek and abig proponent of that as well.
But there's misnomers just likethere is about team building, about
technology, about how we want peopleoutdoors and we want them disconnected.
So why would we want to involve tech?
Eric, what do you think?

Yeah, so, I think you, the philosophical question
around technology enablement, right?
So, it's really about what's thebest experience that you want
people to have in a property, right?
And so, how can technologyenable that experience, right?
And that can start with, starting withwhen you're doing reservations, right?

(30:52):
Is the reservation something you canmake in advance online or call in,
or do you have to make it, right?
So, if you start there.
Do you want people to check in, right?
Or there's contactless check in, right?
That can start acceleratingafter COVID, right?
Where people can just drive totheir site, or write to their site.
You think about do you want people, howdo you want people to access cabins?

(31:15):
Do you want key cards and access controls?
Do you want to come in the gate, right?
Do you want people to, doyou want someone to be there?
Or do you want that tobe enabled by something?
To cameras, to point of sale terminals,where do you want to put registers in
a property if you have them, and canyou enable that with technology where
you can bring something to them, right,and whether that's a cart or whether

(31:35):
that's a tiki bar or whether that's a gasstation in a marina or you're fueling a
fueling station or something like that.
So when you think about kind of theoperational side, or whether it's you
know, metering where you're just like, oh,I want to know what I use, and I want to
be able to look at that on a daily basisand that gets integrated into my checkout.

(31:55):
So, I think it starts, like, how itcan enable that, the guest experience
that you want to eliminate well,actually make the experience what
you want, and how much and you canEmpower human experience right there.
Human connection to where it'smore relational versus technical
and it can enable that right?
Because I have more power if I'm walkingaround, if I have an iPad and I'm driving

(32:18):
around like a lot of people do and thegolf cart to check on people and they see
something that can stop and pick it up,they can engage and they can actually.
If you want to have contacts, youcan actually share that, and there's
messaging systems and all that.
You can have camera systems that canidentify people's license plates, and
when they drive in, you know who they are.
Right, so, Mrs.
Smith is here, and youcan walk in, and say, Mrs.

(32:40):
Smith, how are you doing?
They're like, how did they know who I was?
It's like, well, there's a lot of thingsthat can help people be known and give
them a great experience that they want.

And I think that,

and that's just for me.
oh, I didn't

know which direction to go.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that's like, I thinkthat's the key here is that, Kelly
talked about the mindset of how when wewere, well maybe I don't know, I'm old
too, but I don't remember having a job.
Like I had a job at Target.
I'm sure I was treated terriblyat Target way back when.
Shout out to target who's not in Canada.
So I can say that.
So, but like there was a differentmindset when we were growing

(33:11):
up through our jobs, right?
To bring me a solution.
Don't bring me a problem.
And so just like that has changed.
I think the same thing with technologyhas changed where we need to focus
on technologies that both enhancethe guest experience and Yeah.
Enhance our operational experience asbusiness owners, and I think that's the
key is figuring out how to balance that,you know, I'm a big advocate of that.

(33:32):
Toby was talking about that onher LinkedIn post this morning.
Great companies like can't map and roadtrippers using AI and stuff like that.
Just figuring out how do I deploytechnology, whether it's the point of
sale systems or the key card check insat the cabins or whatever it is, right?
All of which requires Wi Fi.
Shout out to Eric.
So, but figuring out how do I deploytechnology that I know will make my

(33:54):
operations more efficient or even insome cases earn me more money, but also
will Unlike the and everybody's usedto this technology experience, right?
But also will make the guest experiencebetter because we're used to, I
think, in the past, given the waycompanies have deployed technology.
We look at phone systems where you getstuck in a call branch forever, or you

(34:14):
talk to a terrible a I chat bot, whichwasn't even a I way back when, right?
They can't even understandwhat you're saying.
Or in the case of even UPStoday, you can't actually get to
a human no matter what button.
I've tried, trust me, and I'mpretty tech savvy and I can't
get to a human, but it's that.
Would you agree, Eric, or?

Yeah.
So, you know, I was thinking about ifwe looked at check in processes where
it was just normal to wait in line,there would be maybe 5, 10, maybe 20
RVs that were in front of you and youjust waited three hours or you waited
an hour and then people would walk out.
That's just how it was.
And it's like, Oh, is that howyou want the guest experience?

(34:55):
And you think of Disney, changingline management and queue
theory and things like that.
And how we can, I was like, Oh.
Well, how do we change that?
And if we did that, would that improvethem driving with people to their site?
Great.
And so they startedmaking like innovations.
And so I think the same thing.
So I just started with some of theoperational side, Brian, cause that's when
we talk to our customers these operators.

(35:17):
Those operational requirementsare really are central to the
technology deployment and theinfrastructure around their internet.
And so it's like, oh, and so we nowask you are, how are you thinking about
this and what are you doing and howdoes this integrate with the technology
solutions on that you have at yourproperty and bringing some of that.

(35:37):
Integration and ideation, right?
With not just how do I connect to theinternet and how do all the devices that
I'm bringing and how fast should that be?
And, what I want the, the login experienceto be and managing, a great consistent
or whatever the brand experience thatyou want to that property, but it's
also how does it support, the rest ofthe business too, because all of those

(35:58):
are part of that same guest experience.
Although.
Great.
It's easy to say, the internet stinks,but you'll hear it differently.
The line was long, theinternet wasn't great.
Gosh, I had to, you know, all thesepieces that could be solved, through
some type of enablement, right?
And there's a lot of really excitingones that are happening right now,

and it takes that first person to do it, right?
It takes that first campground underto say, maybe the, maybe we don't
have to stand in line for 5 to 20people deep with Arby's pulled out
into the street, blocking traffic,maybe there's a better way to do it.
And then it goes from 1 to2 to 4 to 6 to 15 to 30.
Right?
And then the whole experiencegets better across the industry.
Mike, how do you think about this?
It's here.
Are you and I've had someconversations about technology,

(36:41):
smart homes over the years.
How do you purchase it?
Sierra?
Sierra.
I can't hear you, Mike.
I'm muted.
All right.
Well, let's,

can you hear me now?

There we go.
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think technology is an enhancement.
It's not a replacement.
And so, there's a lot of discussionsaround, the full AI integration
and take all of our jobs and, it'snever going to replace a human.
Can it replace tasks and some jobs?
And can it replace maybe some roles?
Certainly it could.
And I'm not just talking withAI, but whether it's, the online

(37:18):
checking experience or enhancedWi Fi or, AI voice or all those
things are gonna be great tools.
But, you know, similar to Toby's LinkedInpost, our belief is we want to lead the
industry and evolve the industry to themodern world using technology to make our
lives more efficient, to be on the cuttingedge, to optimize to bring convenience

(37:39):
to the outdoor hospitality world.
But at the same time, we're passionateabout experiential, hospitality and
focused on the guests, and that'show we distinguish ourselves.
Now, general generationally, andKelly alluded to this a little bit
earlier, you do have to understandgenerational differences, right?
The baby boomer generally wantstouch points, needs to talk
to someone, you know, gen Z.

(38:01):
They're happy if they check in online.
They go to their cabin withan automated lock check-in
code, and they never see you.
But you still need to be able toprovide both experiences, to make
sure that you're, you're hittingyour multigenerational needs.
So we're passionate about technology,you know, insider perks as one of our
partners and, they're ruling out campvantage, which is going to be really, I

(38:22):
think, game changing for the industry.
Camp spots rolling out their revenuemanagement platform, so I think the
industry absolutely has to evolve,traditionally it's been lagging the
hospitality industry, but you know, thingslike revenue management will catch up.
However, things like Camp Vantage aregoing to lead the hospitality industry
that, hotels aren't really doing yet.
So I think there's anopportunity to do both.

(38:45):
Utilize and leverage and enhancetechnology for the properties for
the guests and for the associateswhile still delivering an
outstanding, customer experience,

Jeff, how do you think about this at camp strategy?
Because I know that there's a lot ofthings that you've learned over the
years that still hold true today thatshould still be practiced and kind of
reverse balanced with technology, right?
So how do you approachthat with your consulting?

Technology has made the industry more secure.
Interactive and allows us toget information quicker, allows
us to do online reservations.
It frees up some time, but what I wantto see is, once we're freeing up that
time, I want to see our staffs have moretime to interact with The people that are

(39:35):
coming to the sites so that they're notoutwardly stressed when people show up.
We're doing, our checkins are all on tablet.
When the guest arrives, as long asthey've had the reservation, they
don't even go into the office.
We want them to go directly to the site.

(39:56):
The person checking them into thesite checks the whole site, talks with
the guest to make sure that they'rehappy, and then they book them.
We're I know that we don't get the, bydoing that we may lose some store sales,
but I think getting rid of the stressfor our campers checking in and getting

(40:20):
their site and just getting them set up.
I think eventually it's going to payoff because then they will relax, come
up to the store and probably buy morebecause the kids aren't screaming.

Yeah, there's more time for you to get in the Yogi suit, Jeff.

Walk

around and sell some store gear and merchandise.
Yeah,

you do realize that's why I always owned KOAs to begin with
because I knew who would be in thebear suit if I owned a Jellystone.
Me.
It was me.
Yep.
I know.
And now I have a Jellystone, butit's four hours away, so I don't
have to get in the bear suit yet.

But I'm curious, like when you go, when you do your consulting
for your different clients, Jeff, likesomebody comes to you and says, either
I'm developing a resort or I'm rebranding.
I just bought this for the firsttime and they don't know what to do.
What strategy do they take?
What technologies dothey adopt or not adopt?
What old school?
Practices.
Do they keep around because thoseare tried and tested and proven?

(41:17):
How do you approach that?
Like, obviously it's differentclient to client, right?
But just a blanket kind of guide.

Yeah.
A lot of it depends on type of campground,whether they're all seasonal, if they're
all transient or if they're a mixed.
We're also looking at different,as you know, there's so many PMS
systems out there, each one kind ofsatisfies a niche in the industry.
So we'd be looking at differentPMS systems and what are they

(41:46):
going to do for the people.
The old school part of that isyour facilities, AI can't do those.
You're still gonna have to keep yourfacilities up, you're still gonna
have to keep your grounds up, andyou can't change your employees.
So we, we definitely are inthere preaching about guest

(42:09):
satisfaction loyalty to the guest.
I try to tell, when I own businesses,I tell people, I don't have any money.
If people do not show up through that gateand pay us, none of us are getting paid.
So, your loyalty is notto me, it's to the guest.

(42:31):
And that's kind of what we tryto make our clients understand.
The main thing that they're selling,their product, is their campground site.
Everything runs off of booking that site.
All the amenities, all theactivities, everything else.
The main ingredient of a campgroundis Getting that site occupied and

(42:56):
everything else flows from that.
And you get that site occupied byattending to that guest when, it starts
from your webpage or to the phone call.
That's the first pointwhere people hit you.
And that's old school.
Even if it's AI, Brian, itstill has to, have a smile.

(43:17):
It still has to be interactiveand give the guest the
information they're looking for.

I want to kind of bring this back full circle and ask Kelly
and Mike and obviously Sandy or Eric oranybody who wants to chime into this.
But let's bring this back to teambuilding because we talked about how
technology enhances the guest experience.
Let's talk about how technologyenhances our team experience
because that is full circle.
It goes into the happinesslike Sandy was talking about.
Picking the role that you want,whether you're an introvert, extrovert,

(43:45):
guest facing, not guest facing.
Kelly, do you have some examples,maybe at Great Escapes and then Mike
at CRR, of ways that door locks,technology, PMS systems, Wi Fi,
whatever else, has indirectly madeteam members happier with their roles?

Sure.
So I just want to say I was doing someresearch when I work for leisure systems.
And in 1987, 1 of the topics forsymposium was, should you invest
in a small business computer?
So, to go from.
Topic in 1987 to where we are now,I think, is really interesting.

(44:25):
I think overall people arestill going to buy from people.
So, like Jeff was saying you know,your employees and your campsites
are all super important and.
Old school.
We still attend RV shows.
We don't rely only on the website.
We know that campers are more social.
So even when we're leveraging technologywe still have the personal components.

(44:50):
We may be doing a scavengerhunt using campers apps.
technological scavenger hunt, right?
We still have the activity person outthere doing, you know, the hype, if
you will, for the activity, I thinkmost importantly, most campground
owners and operators, regardlessof if you're a multipark owner, a

(45:14):
franchise or an independent owner.
Historically has spent 90 percent oftheir time working in their business and
less than 10 percent of the time workingon their business because they didn't
have the correct technological tools.

(45:35):
To work on their business, right?
And it took much time to go dig upthat report and all of those things.
So I think with our technology hasimproved in the reporting that we can
pull out of our reservation systems, thereporting we can pull out of our point
of sale, the reporting we can pull to seehow effective our website is being right.

(45:58):
It allows us to actually be moreproductive when working on our business.
Versus just always in our businessand most campground owners that I know
and have known over the years, allof us are very hands on operators.
And it's challenging for us to takethat step back and really, you know,

(46:21):
I would rather poke myself in the eyethan look at an Excel spreadsheet.
Quite frankly

I agree.
Yeah, Excel spreadsheets.

But it needs to be done.
And, you know, it's important, toSandy's point earlier, I have people
on my team who live and breatheExcel spreadsheets and love them.
And that's their role.
And thank God, because not mine.
So I think technologyhas just allowed us to.
really focus on the business aspect of it.

(46:48):
And as you know, Mike said, thecampground industry as a whole has been
late to adapting to technology becauseit is so a socially based industry.
And so as we become more technologicallyadvanced, we're able to work on
our business more and make betterdata driven decisions, which is But

it goes into every aspect, right?
Like, I'll use one of your exampleswhere you're talking about activities.
If you can use, let's just say somethinglike chat GPT or whatever else, right?
Or download a template ofactivity ideas or pull it from a
suggestion in a Facebook group.
You know, if you can do that.
Then doesn't that in inherently makethat employee happier if what they

(47:33):
prefer doing is bringing the joyand waving around and enhancing the
guest experience and they don't haveto do the monotonous thing of making
the schedule so they can focus more.
Doesn't that make themhappier in their role?

Yeah, I think there's two components to it.
One is what is.
What provides a smoother operationalexperience for the associate, which
helps reduce their stress and burden?
Our associate engagementsurvey, we just finished it up.
Our number one scoring questionat a 97 percent was, you know,
CRR is a great place to work.
For three years in a row.

(48:04):
Our bottom scoring question is I haveenough tools and resources to do my job.
Doesn't mean it's poor, but there'snever enough tools and resources.
So we try and find ways to make surethat we're providing efficiencies and
experiences for them that are optimized.
And we use technology todo that at times for sure.
And like we have a engagementsurvey session tomorrow, which

(48:25):
I won't be able to attend.
So I'm going to attend via teamto participate and be present.
But at the same time, that'skind of the operational part.
The engagement part, youknow, you can use the tools.
So for example, app, my community,which I know a lot of people have,
which would be mixed property, aproduct, has an entire section that you
can create for just your associates.
You can load the schedule on there.
You can communicate, youcan ask the swap shifts.

(48:47):
We have a scavenger hunt for new hires.
It's loaded onto the app, so it's a greattool to use for associate engagement.
Or, if you're familiar with flip book.
And I know this sounds so sillyand basic, but we use Flipbook for
our quarterly associate newsletter.
Because it just feels muchmore modern and engaging and

feels easier and quicker to put together too.
That's what I don't, I'mnot just talking about AI.
I'm talking about all thethings you're talking about.

And so yes, efficiency is important and efficiency so you can
find more time to focus on those thingsare important, but also tools, you
know, so the associates and managerscan do their job better and tools so
that you can drive more engagement.
So, it isn't a one answer fitsall because there's multiple ways.
To use technology to your advantage, butI was reading a customer survey actually

(49:32):
yesterday for Coachella lakes and youknow, one of the comments was, the guests
had gotten locked out of their own RV.
So they're trying to findspare keys and the maintenance
person his name was Victor.
They mentioned the maintenance personcame over and, you know, waited with my
grid while AAA came and, wanted me tohelp and they escorted me to, and you, it.
Hey, technology can never do that, right?

(49:55):
This, I don't know why mycamera is all funky, sorry.
Technology, yeah, technology.
Technology will never replace that.
So you have to continue to focuson what technology can do to help,
but Victor can never be replaced.
That sense of human touch andcompassion, empathy, care, physical,
be there, that is what we do.
Correct.

But you can give Victor more time to do what Victor
did in that instance, right?

Sure.
We get the point, Brian.

I'm talking about all the things you're talking about,
the flip books and everything else.
That's what I'm trying to say,that it's way more than just
what I'm focused on, right?

It is, but I think there's the balance where and I
think this is where the fit andToby mentioned this, the cautionary
tale would be don't do it too much.
Don't, replace the human.
Don't, do it at nauseam so that youknow, exclude the customer experience.
There has to be the balance.

Yeah, 100% agree,

I think that the tools really resonates because when I looked
at, like we did a, like an ERP deploymentabout two years ago, because there was
just when people were talking about theamount of toil they had to get to get
disparate pieces of information, theywere spending, you know, 20, 25 percent
of their time just trying to get dataversus actually do things with it.

(51:17):
And just from a satisfier of your jobreducing toil is a really nice satisfier,
Enabler.
It helped, you know, I don't know ifthis is the right way to think about it,
but a lot of the times in our businessmanager is our teammate in one sense.
So one of the tools that we gaveto teammate was this manager app.

(51:38):
A lot of times, you can go tosome dashboard on a website, but
we found people wanted to know.
Hey, is every who's connected?
Are there any open arms?
And if I need to connect somebody,I don't want to call them.
Can I just them?
So we built an app that had anintegrated ticketing system.
So they had statuses andall sorts of things, right?
To give them at a glance.

(51:58):
If a guest at a propertysaid, Hey, what's going on?
It's like, Oh, well, there's130 people on and they're fine.
Why don't you call this number?
And they're like, great.
And so, those are things that kind of.
I guess better tools and equippingpeople and reducing toil, super helpful.

You just have to start with that exercise, right?
Whatever your unique situation is atyour property, whatever you're trying to
solve, whether you're trying to build abetter team, or you're trying to solve
for the guest experience, or any ofthe number of other things that we've
talked about in the show, I think youjust have to start by putting yourself
in that position, analyzing what you'retrying to solve, and then working
forwards or backwards from there, really.
I guess forwards, but, is that fair?

(52:36):
Just one step at a time.
So, okay.
We're coming up on ourend of our show here.
That went pretty quick today.
So, any final thoughts or justkind of go around the room and Jeff
you're at the top of my screen.
You want to have any final thoughts?

Just to let people know that technology is coming
and it's going to be a major partof our industry going forward.
But you also still have to,we're in a human business.
We're in a touchy feely business.
So we got to merge the two together.

100 percent agree.
Yep.
Kelly.

Yeah, same, right?
People buy from people.
People want to interact with people.
You know, start by buildingyour team, whether it's one, one
other person or 100 other people.
And then technology is nota one size fits all answer.
Just like anything else in our industry.
Find what works for you.
And.

(53:34):
Build your network, attend theconferences and, you know, Brian,
we started at the top of the hourtalking about its conference season
and how things start at one propertyand then get adapted and adapted.
And that's how our industry moves forward.
And that all happens at theconferences that people attend.
And you know, not only through theclasses and the sessions, but quite

(53:56):
often the conversations that happen inthe hallway are much more important.

Yes.

Yeah, a hundred percent.
I was talking last week on the show.
I think Greg Gerber, youprobably remember him.
Kelly.

Yeah

he was sharing.
He went, he does this forward from50 thing now, but he was sharing that
somebody did an unconference in Floridawhere it was just all networking, like
little breakout tables near the bar andstuff like, obviously learning, which is
totally different because you're right.
The networking is where the realvalue comes from, like conferences,
generally speaking, I think so.
Yeah.

Yeah, I was just thinking, as both of you were talking,
something I would love to see, and Iknow that several of our state conference
leaders, I always encourage them to watchthis, and I would love to see some of
these topics actually taught at some ofthose conferences, because there's an
economy of scale then that can be gained.
Some of these parks that may not beable to afford to bring a consultant

(54:50):
in just for their park couldparticipate then, because you could do
a whole group of people at one time.
So, little plug for that.
Don't laugh, Jeff Hoffman.,

As Jeff still gets his check, that's all I'm concerned about.
So, if we want to gather peopletogether and they all give Jeff money
he needs to be able to afford his hats.
Eric, why don't you.

I'd rather do it in a classroom.

I just think we're in the people business, right?
And so as far as we're willing to,and Bazelius are willing to engage
that will be the limit or, right?
And so that's one, I think technologyis an enabler, and we just talked about
that, of these different experiences,whether it's an operational experience
or an operational outcome, or a teamexperience, or a guest experience, right?

(55:34):
But it's an enabler of that experience.
I think the thing Maybe we were talkingabout around just generationally
but our employees and our guests,our customers are bringing
expectations about technology, too.
And so there is something around uspaying attention and adopting as we
see fit, but there's also expectationsbeing brought to us that we need
to meet or choose not to meet.

(55:55):
And
That's it.

And I will do this.
Eric, for the campground ownerswho are watching, where can they
find out more about Tango Internet?
We'll loop back through the other threeand give you guys a chance to, but

Great.
They can go to www.
tangointernet.
com or they can send an emailto eric at tangointernet.
com or find me on LinkedIn.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Eric.
Mike, final thoughts?
And then CRR?

No.
I think everybody, everybody said it well.
I don't need to restate it.
I just appreciate the the discussion.
It's a great one and it won't stop.

Where can they learn more about CRR Hospitality
and what you guys do?

Www.
crrhospitality.
com.
Or you can send me an email atmharrison at crrhospitality.
com or you can call Jeff or Sandy andthey'll tell you where to find us.
Kelly, I

want to give you a chance to, where can they find
out more about Great Escapes?

Yeah great escapes RV resorts dot com.
We're all pretty challengedwith our names, right?
And my email is kelly at Jenkins org.
com.
Or find me on LinkedIn or, youknow, at the next conference.
I would love to, meet upin person with anybody

awesome.
And Jeff Camp strategy.

You can find us at campstrategy.com
or if you want to email me,it's jeff@campstrategy.com.
Look forward to hearing from you.

Really easy.
It's just sandy at sandy ellingson.
com E l l i n g s o n

Awesome.
Well, thank you guys.
I really appreciate you being here foranother episode of mc fireside chats.
I think was another great discussion Iappreciate your participation just trying
to give people some more insights intobusiness operations and management I
think we definitely achieved that today.
So we'll see you all next weekfor another episode until then.
Take care guys We'll see you.

All right.
Thanks

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MC Fireside Chats - February 19th, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}MC Fireside Chats - February 19th, 2025