MC Fireside Chats - January 29th, 2025

In this episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl welcomed Josef Hjelmaker, CEO of Electric Outdoors, Robert Preston, CEO and Founder of Unhitched Management, and Matt and Karina Torres, owners of Bayshore RV Park, to discuss their experiences and insights into the outdoor hospitality and RV park industries. The conversation covered everything from business growth and sustainability to unique guest experiences and the future of the industry. Robert Preston shared his journey from a military pilot to a real estate investor, now owning 14 RV parks through Climb Capital and Unhitched Management. His focus is on fostering a sense of community within his parks, providing spaces where guests can disconnect from daily life and reconnect with nature and each other. He emphasized the importance of safe, clean, and welcoming environments in creating a successful RV park experience. His management philosophy revolves around treating employees well so they, in turn, provide exceptional hospitality to guests. He also spoke about his approach to acquiring and scaling parks, explaining that his growth is based on finding good deals while ensuring that each new acquisition enhances the efficiency and effectiveness of his existing properties. Josef Hjelmaker introduced Electric Outdoors, a company focused on sustainability and innovation in outdoor hospitality. His company develops portable, self-sustaining destination platforms that generate their own energy, manage water, and handle waste independently. The units, designed to be placed in remote or off-grid locations, offer a new way to camp without requiring traditional infrastructure or permits. He explained how these platforms provide flexibility for landowners and park operators, allowing them to create new camping experiences in places previously inaccessible to RVs and traditional campers. The conversation also touched on the growing role of electric vehicles in outdoor recreation, with Josef discussing how his technology supports off-grid stays while accommodating the needs of EV travelers. He highlighted the importance of digital integration, explaining how his platforms use connectivity to enhance user experience through booking, energy management, and local activity recommendations. Matt and Karina Torres shared their experience of acquiring and revitalizing Bayshore RV Park on the Washington coast. Their journey began when Matt, a former framer and general contractor, and Karina, with a background in property management, combined their skills to turn their park into a thriving business. They emphasized the importance of hands-on management, directly engaging with guests to provide personalized service and a welcoming atmosphere. They spoke about their approach to balancing long-term and transient guests, their focus on creating unique experiences such as easy access to crabbing in Willapa Bay, and their strategy for reinvesting profits back into the park. They also discussed their long-term goal of eventually hiring a dedicated manager so they can expand to additional properties while ensuring their guests continue to receive the same level of care and hospitality. The discussion highlighted the changing landscape of the outdoor hospitality industry and the increasing importance of offering more than just a place to stay. The guests agreed that creating meaningful experiences for visitors, whether through high-touch customer service, sustainable accommodations, or fostering a sense of community, is key to long-term success. Brian Searl noted that the industry has thrived for years with minimal effort due to economic conditions, but moving forward, park owners will need to be more intentional about guest experiences to maintain and grow their businesses. He pointed out that travelers are looking for something unique, and parks that can deliver on that will be the ones that stand out in an increasingly competitive market. The conversation also touched on the challenges...

Episode Transcript

(00:47):
Welcome everybody to anotherepisode of MC Fireside chats. My
name is Brian Searle withinsider perks. Super excited to be
here with you again foranother week. I see myself freezing
during this episode, but Josefand Robert say I'm not. So if you
feel like I'm freezing, callthem out in the comments so that
I know that's actuallyhappening and we can see who's telling
me the truth or not telling methe truth. But really pumped. Like

(01:08):
that was the second week we'vehad our brand new intro and I feel
like I just come here to dothe show just to see the intro. So
I'm done now if you guys justwant to take over and talk about
it.
That was an awesome intro for sure.
Thank you. I'm pumped up right now.
The song behind it wasactually completely AI generated.
Oh.
By a company called Suno. It'ssuno.com. so it's really hard to

(01:32):
prompt it but like I actuallygot it to prompt it to say MC Fireside
in there. So that's prettyinteresting. That took me a while
to do it, but so, yeah, superexcited to be here with you guys.
It's kind of one of thoseweird fifth week episodes that we
have every so often withoutour, you know, any recurring guests
are scheduled to be here.Normally we were supposed to have
a campground owner here onhere with you guys, so maybe they'll
show up too. But in themeantime, we've got you, Josef and

(01:55):
Robert, two special guestshere. So you guys want to briefly
introduce yourselves.
Sure.
You want to go, Robert, orshould I?
Sure, I'll kick it off.Welcome. My name is Robert Preston,
the CEO and founder of ClimbCapital and Unhitched Outdoors. Married,
five kids, couple adoptedcouple, foster, former military pilot.

(02:18):
We'll give you the rundown ownown about 14 parks. And yeah, we're.
We're here and happy to be onthe chat today.
So no pressure. Like just tryto do better than that. Josef.
Well, I tried to charm youwith my accent though. Scandinavian,
Swedish. So I mean, obviouslyyou're hearing something, but no.

(02:40):
Super excited, super pumped tobe on the show today. Thank you for
having me, Brian. I have thepleasure of running my own company,
Electric Outdoors startup inthe sustainable outdoor space. We
definitely try to bring peoplemore sustainably to the outdoors
and we do that by buildingdestination platforms that are portable,

(03:04):
off grid, self sustained,harvest energy from the sun, stores
energy and then use thatenergy in many different use cases.
Excited to talk about that. Ofcourse. Like Robert, I'm married
three kids spread outthroughout the U.S. even if we're
all Swedish, we've been inU.S. since 2015 and. And just amazed

(03:25):
about the opportunities here,but also the opportunity to play
in the outdoors, which is ahuge passion for me and my family
altogether. So thanks againfor having me.
Yeah, I appreciate you beinghere, Josef. I feel like I'm the
only person so far withoutkids. Like I did raise a stepdaughter
for 12 years that wasn't myown child. But now I feel this peer
pressure, like I'm doing thewrong thing with my life or something.

(03:47):
So Karina and Matt, do youguys have kids also? Introduce yourselves,
please.
Hey, I'm Karina.
I'm Matt.
And yes, we do have two kids,an eight year old and a two year
old.
All right, I feel terriblenow. So, okay, you're from Bayshore
RV park, right?
Bayshore RV park, yeah.

(04:08):
You want to tell us, just tellus a little bit about yourselves
real quick, please.
Well, so Karina and I met, Iwas doing an acquisition deal and
she actually worked for thecompany that was acquiring an RV
park from me. And so I met herthere and then we ended up, we started

(04:31):
dating and started talkingabout how we wanted to pursue own
an RV park and maybe multipleand looking into mobile home parks
and that kind of thing. And soalong the way we decided that mobile
home parks weren't reallygoing to be the way to go. We like
the transient rents, we likehaving a few long term people in

(04:54):
there to kind of help sustainthe off seasons. And, and so we found
an opportunity and jumpedafter it. We found several along
the way. And the way that wekept looking at it was it needs to
be cheap and it needs to beperfect. And so, you know, you keep
finding these deals and, andthere so much stuff wrong with them

(05:16):
that we, we really had to kindof refocus and recognize that you're
not going to find somethingcheap that doesn't need work.
And so yeah, those were allpicked up like late 20, 22 probably.
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe Robert has them all now.I don't know.
Trying to.
Yeah, so we picked ours up.It's on the Washington coast. It's

(05:38):
right on the Willapa Bay.There's crabbing, clamming, everything
right out the backyard. Ourproperty Overall, it's about 20 acres
and it has about 17 acres ofthat is all tide land so we can walk
right out into the water.Found out there's a really cool way
of crabbing for Dungeness crabout here. You just literally walk

(06:02):
out into the water about kneedeep and you can pick up Dungeness
crab right out of the bay. Youdon't have to drop, you don't have
to bait them. You just walkout and pick them up.
And your marketing, thisobviously is a unique benefit of
the property.
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah, that's one of my, like,I'll tell you, like, I go, I mean,
I don't go on vacation veryoften, but I was just in September,

(06:23):
I was in the Philippines. Wehave, some of our team members are
over there, so we take them toa, teach them to take them to a team
outing every, you know, once ayear to a resort and three days with
them and all that kind ofstuff. And so we did like, we, there
was a, a place we went to onthe, off the island of Cebu where
you could just walk out and dolike, I mean, 10ft and do the most
amazing snorkeling I've everseen with coral reefs and stuff like

(06:44):
that. So that kind of like I'ma big water guy, like I'll eventually,
when I have enough money, liveby a river or something like that.
Right? Some kind of small bodyof water, not the ocean, but like
those, those kinds of. Wetalked about it on the show before.
Those kinds of uniqueexperiences that you can market and
show people why you're trulydifferent are what are going to set

(07:04):
us apart as we head intowhatever we're going to do in the
next few years. But I thinkit's going to be a not as pretty
economic situation as we'veenjoyed for a number of, you know,
10, 11, 12 years. Right. Soyeah, I want to, let's talk more
about that briefly. Do youwant to just start with Karina? Matt,
do we mind? Do we care?
Sure. Great.
Okay. So how did you, how didyou get to this park? Is my first

(07:24):
question. Because there's lotsof stuff, right?
Yeah. So, you know, you startby shopping on craxy rv trader or
rv park, rv parks.com and, andall these other sites. And you know,
I was, I was at gymnastics formy, for my 8 year old and Karina

(07:48):
and I had just talked and, andwe kept on waiting for the right
opportunity to find something.And so I think it was, geez, it started
like February, March. We kepton waiting to find the right deal
and I was on FacebookMarketplace and we found this guy
selling a house at Ocean Park.And so she's like, let's just get

(08:09):
it and then we can put it upon the Airbnb and Vacasa and all
that stuff. And so while wewere in contract to purchase that,
we kept on looking for the RVpark opportunity. And the folks that
I were work that I was workingfor at the time, that's what the
business they were into alsowas manufactured home parks and RV

(08:33):
parks. And Karina, she'sreally motivating, saying, we've
really got to find something,and it doesn't have to be the perfect
deal, but we need to get ourfeet wet and find a deal. I was shopping
around and I found one while Iwas at my daughter's gymnastics class.
Called on it, and the thinghad just listed within a couple of

(08:55):
days. And I told the guy Iwanted to come up and see it. Karina
and I went up there, took alook at it, saw the potential, and
I was a framer for the first10 years of my career. General contractor,
head of construction, generalmanager of operations for a large
home building company downhere for the next 10 years before

(09:16):
I went to work for the folksthat do all of the acquisition for
the RV parks and themanufactured home parks. So I just
have the. I felt like theright skill set to stop shopping
around for the perfect deal,but find one that I could put my
expertise into and add thevalue. And that's when we. We were
able to put a deal togetherwith the guy.

(09:37):
I don't want to take this inthe wrong direction, but does your
daughter. Is your daughteraware that you were not fully engaged
during the gymnastics match?
Well, when they're that young,there's a lot of awkward somersaulting
and they have to take turns.
So it wasn't her turn. Is yourstory. That's.
You guys stick with that
Right
Yeah.
All right.

(09:58):
Karina, you have anything toadd or.
Yeah, I think that, you know,with both of our kind of, like, brains
put together, you know, withhis expertise and my expertise of
property management, handlingall the reservations, customer service,
the bookkeeping, marketingpart of it marketing, I was able

(10:19):
to handle all of that, um, andjust kind of take that away from
him and make sure that he'sable to handle the property, the
infrastructure, all the issuesthat come with septic tanks, electricity
pedestals and. And water linesand things like that. So I didn't
really have to get my handsdirty. I just leave that up to the

(10:41):
man over here.
She'd just tell me what waswrong with it.
Yeah.
And then I'd have to go andfigure it out and fix it.
Oh, we have a third guest. Isshe want to add anything to the conversation?
Is she probably gonna just letus know that she pooped.
Yeah.
It's funny because sheusually, she usually comes with me

(11:01):
if, like, if a guest is, youknow, sometimes it's. Sometimes it
can be a little bit of theolder generation where, you know,
they get up easily upset aboutsomething or, you know, as long as
I have Sophia with me on myhip and I go talk to them, it's kinda
like the ice breaker, you know
You don't want to mak my kidcry. Do you?

(11:22):
Yeah.
How dare you?
Yeah,
there's a business theresomewhere, Robert, if you need another
business that's probably likerent a kid while you're getting talking
to an angry customer for apark owner.
Yeah, Sadly, I think I have. Ihave enough at this point.
Well, not for you. No, I'msaying to sell it to other RV park

(11:42):
owners.
Eight year old, actually. It'sso funny. Like, the best part about
it for her is in thesummertime, she makes friends, new
friends every two days becausewe have new families coming in. And
with one little group of girlsthat came in on a weekend, they set
up a babysitters club. So theywere, they made flyers, they started

(12:05):
handing them out and they'relike, meet at the park. You know,
I think it was like at 11o'clock. And babysitting service,
$2.
That's awesome. It's a greatdeal too.
It's not inflation adjusted at $2.
Exactly.
Works out great because theproducts that we do have to sell
and the things that areprofitable is like firewood, nice.

(12:27):
You know, that's the easiestsell. And so for us, we just send
the kids out to go pedal. Youknow, they're. They're the pushers.
And so then she gets herfriends involved that she meets at
the park. And I told her, Isaid, look, we sell the bags of ice
for three bucks. You guys geta dollar. You could split a dollar
for every bag you sell. And sothose two are like splitting up the

(12:49):
money at the end of the day.And we didn't get anything. And so
the other little girl, her momcomes over and goes, hey, my daughter
came home with 11 bucks. And Iwanted to make sure that she was
supposed to do that. And Isaid, look, we gave them an opportunity,
but they started their own icecartel. We had nothing to do with.
I mean, that's a good mindset,right? But I still remember that,

(13:10):
like I was telling. Well, Ithink I said it live. Usually I say
in the back room when I wastalking about different things and
I cite it, but I was tellingyou guys that I raised a stepdaughter
from, you know, 2 to 12 or 2to 13. And like in the beginning
when we were starting InsiderPerks, like we would travel full.
Like I was in a Jeep fulltime. We were traveling to different
campgrounds and creatingvideos of them for KOA. In the beginning,

(13:32):
this is like 2011 or 12,something like that. And, and that
was one of the biggestexperiences that was powerful. Like
we homeschooled her, but likegoing to the different campgrounds,
we moved every four or fivedays and just meeting new people
and new places and hearing newstories and playing with new kids
and like, I don't know that,that it's hard for me when I look
back at it as a parent. Right.Would I have done it again? Probably

(13:53):
because it's a goodexperience, but also like she lost
that consistency with the samefriends during that period too. So
it's an interesting dynamic.But I think it sounds like you guys
have the best of both worldsdoing what you're doing, you know,
consistency and the people whoare visiting. So that's definitely
exciting. I'm curious, what'syour future plans for the, the park
like as you look toward whatmay or may not happen in 2025? You

(14:17):
know, I think there's a lot ofuncertainty. Like nobody really knows
what's going to happen. Itcould be good, could be bad, could
be terrible, could be the sameas last year, could be, who knows?
But assuming everything goesas you planned, let's just take the
high road. What are yourfuture plans for the park? What are
you excited to kind of keepbuilding on?
I think the direction we wouldlike to go is bring in possibly more

(14:42):
rental type units, maybelittle cabins, little, little studio
units, something like that.Uh, there's I. We have three hotel
rooms and those rent outpretty consistently. Um, you know,
we brought in. So we bought a43 foot fifth wheel, a Jayco fifth

(15:03):
wheel in, in 2021. Uh, and weparked it. We actually had parked
it in a space that was a spacethat was kind of tucked back in that
was not a space that everybodywould go to. Nobody would really
want that space because weactually have our, our, one of our
like storage shops over inthe. Tucked into the corner of the

(15:23):
property. And so I was able toback this thing in along the side
of that that didn't obstructanything, still had parking out in
front of it. And we were ableto rent out the fifth wheel, like
for 115 bucks a night. And itwas consistently rented throughout
our busy season. It's like,well, you know, this thing has been
sitting at home and we spent130 grand on this thing. It's Taj

(15:47):
Mahal for, for a trailer. Andso like since we have an RV park,
what are we going to gocamping for? Why are we going to
take it? We want to promotethis. And so at first I was like,
you know, this is a great ideato let people see what it's like
to actually experience campingin an RV fifth wheel camper. That
way they can see the thingsthat work for them or don't work

(16:08):
for them. So I wanted to putmore focus this year on giving that
opportunity to people. Like,hey, we have this if you guys are
thinking about buying one.Because there's a lot of tent campers
who come out to our propertyand so, you know, we try to push
it on them. Like, hey, if youguys want to rent this thing, we
give it to you for 115 bucks.I mean it sleeps nine people. It's
a two bedroom, plus it has aloft, full size bathroom, got a washer

(16:33):
and dryer in it. And for, forthe money they can, you can't, you
can't rent anything for 115bucks a night. That is decent. And
this, it's a really, reallynice unit. So I wouldn't mind going
in a direction of adding morerental type units to offer something
aside from tenting, you know,especially at the coast because the

(16:57):
weather can turn at theWashington coast and just to have
that to where they can taketheir deposit or their, their, their
plans and they could convertthat from a tent to like, hey, you
know, we also have theseavailable so you don't lose them
and they have to rebook, butyou can actually push them to still
staying the, the.

(17:18):
Upgrade path is interestingbecause that like, we know that that
works. It's been long in theindustry, right? The, the ability
for people to you know, get ataste of what it's like as an upgrade
from especially tent campinginto a nice rv. And then you know,
obviously not everybodypurchases, but there's an interest,
there's a desire, there's, oh,I've done that. And then they talk
about it with their friendsand all that kind of stuff. I'm still
waiting for the businessthat's like all tent camping is an

(17:40):
advertisement. And then youcould like go to your dealer and
create like a commissionaffiliate link for the people to
have like a coupon code orsomething and then you just upgrade
everybody for free into thenice RVs and then you get like a
huge cash commission when theybuy It. I think that might be more
lucrative than the extra $20or whatever it is. The $50. Right.
But the upgrade, I don't know.But. Okay, thank you. I want to get

(18:05):
to and feel free you weren'there in the beginning of the show.
I was telling Josef andRobert, as we talk to everybody else
and tell their stories, if youguys have questions of them, please
feel free to jump in. We wantto have your perspective throughout
the show. So let's talk toJosef. You're in that. Did I hear
you say you're in theNetherlands? I don't know why that's
not in.
My notes, but no,
I'm actually in Michigan, inDetroit. Michigan. I am Swedish.

(18:28):
I mean, that's the accent thatyou're hearing.
At least I got the dialect right.
Yeah, sort of.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely. It'sEuropean for sure. And I mean, first
and foremost, I love whatKarina and Matt are saying. I mean,
and I can relate to, with mythree kids, multitasking and figuring
out, you know, things you needto do when you're watching random

(18:50):
things happening with yourkids, if it's soccer or tennis or
practice or whatever, it mightbe so good way of killing time and
finding ways to do goodbusiness, if you will. But I also
love the experience thatthey're talking about. Right? I mean,
Electric Outdoors. And thankyou for putting a Jayco on your property.
I used to be at ThorIndustries, so I had the pleasure

(19:12):
of working with the Jayco teamand Airstrip team and Keystone team,
whatever the brands arecalled. We founded. I founded Electric
Outdoors with that mission tohelp create new, unique experiences
and try to do that in adifferent way. It was rooted in a
sustainability wave ortechnology wave, I should really

(19:35):
say, within the RV space,where new ways of propelling the
vehicles, so electrificationor hybrid vehicles or whatever that
might be, and what kind ofvehicles that. To tow the RV product
to where it's going. Right.Maybe turning electric or being a
hybrid. So it was rooted intechnology. It was rooted in the

(19:55):
next generation of people andwhat kind of. The next generation
of our population and whatkind of experiences we think they
want to have. And yes, from atechnology point of view, we were
thinking about that digitalexperience quite a bit. How do you
make that more seamless? Youknow, how do we integrate new and
different business model. Butit was also rooted in how do we democratize

(20:20):
the way people go, you know,more sustainably to the outdoors.
And one thing we found when Iworked at Thor, have the pleasure
of working with that amazingteam Was that one thing that was
preventing the RV industryfrom really skyrocketing in terms
of sales? I mean, it's afantastic business and they're doing
great, but the lack of, ofplaces to go to and the difficulty

(20:44):
of finding them, booking them,timing it right, if I want to go
to that amazing spot, whereverit might be, I didn't realize as
the next generation that Ineeded to book nine months in advance.
And who plans that far ahead?It's Monday and I want to go somewhere
on Friday. So we found it. Ifounded Electric Outdoors with a

(21:04):
great group of people buildingportable assets. It's almost like
the cabins that you're talkingabout, Matt, to some extent, it's
a portable asset that you candrop in wherever. You don't really
need any permitting becausewe're not hooking up to any amenities.
We're creating energy, we'restoring energy, we're generating

(21:25):
water, we are incineratingwaste. We have a self sustained asset
with a very strong digitalbackbone that helps with energy management
and booking and maintenanceand all of those things. You can
sleep in the unit, you cancook in the unit, you can shut the
doors of the unit if you wantto. If the weather kicks in in Washington

(21:46):
or if the bear in Michigan isknocking on your door or whatever
it might be, we have a shower,we have a toilet in there, like I
said. But the primary missionwas to help unlock new land, new
destination, so that peoplecan go more and explore and really,
yeah, do what they want to go,you know, do what they want to do

(22:08):
when they get to the outdoors,if it's biking or hiking or fishing
or just hanging out, having agood time by, by the fireside.
Well, and I will say, like,and this is probably going to be
really controversial, mightget me into trouble with maybe some
of even our clients who watchthis show. But like, I remember when
I was traveling the country,you know, as I talked about early
in the days of Insider Perks,and we visited hundreds of RV parks

(22:32):
and so many of them, not all,but so many of them were in the same
locations, like obviouslydifferent cities, right. But the
same kind of mindset, eithernear a highway or near, you know,
just outside of a downtownarea or near a lake or near a beautiful
forest. But as, as I traveled,and I know this is probably a unique
experience to me and maybe thefull time RVers who have been doing

(22:54):
it for, you know, 10, 11, 12years, but it would be almost the
same, like once you got to somany states in so many places, unless
you were going somewhere likethe Grand Canyon or Yosemite or something,
A lot of it is so much of thesame thing that you've already seen.
And for us, I think maybethat. I'm not saying that hits home

(23:14):
for every traveler, but forus, it was because we had our stepdaughter
with us, and we were tryingto, you know, go to all the kids
museums and go to all thescience centers and keep her entertained
and keep her educated. Andwe're like, all right, this is another
science museum. It's the samething we just saw. It's the same
thing we just saw. So how dowe get that different experience
when we're going anywhere,staying anywhere, but especially
at campgrounds. And obviouslywe have that outdoor experience.

(23:37):
But. But having the abilityto. To take that and put that somewhere
that's not the same as everyother camping experience. Does that
make sense?
Oh, 100%. I mean, it's one ofthe core values with what we are
building as well. Right. Imean, you don't. You're not depending
on any particularinfrastructure. You can drop in our

(23:57):
assets pretty much anywhereit's towable. So you don't really
need a prepared road orsomething like that. All you need
is a flat piece of land, andyou drop the unit in and boom, you
unlock that land wherever itis. Right. In whatever scenario,
in the mountains, by the lake,by the river, just outside the city,
whatever you prefer. So thereare many ways of unlocking these

(24:21):
kind of experiences, but weare just excited about doing it in
sort of a renewable technologypoint of view and also, you know,
having enough energy tosupport alternative ways of going
to the outdoors as well. Wehave built it to prepare for even
electric vehicles that want togo to the outdoors. I know that's

(24:42):
controversial to some extent,but our platform is really all inclusive
and are not excluding even thecouple in Detroit or Chicago or Denver,
whatever, that has their TeslaRivian and want to go out, you know,
two hours in the wild. Butright now it's. There's no way of
doing that. So we tried toinclude, you know, all of those experiences

(25:03):
and new use cases as well.
Yeah, I mean, and don't, like,don't worry about being controversial.
Like, everything feels likeit's controversial these days. But,
like, I mean, and to be clear,like, I'm not saying there's anything
wrong with RV parks as they'recurrently constructed. And I think
that there's a. There's alarger conversation that we've had
on the show over the last fewyears off and on about places like

(25:24):
Hip Camp or Harvest Hosts orstaying at wineries or in Walmart
parking lots or wherever else.And I don't think that actually takes
away from. Despite what owner,many owners think, I don't think
that takes away from theaudience who wants to stay at a traditional
RV park, because I think thoseare easy in, easy out. They have
lots of really nice amenitieslike swimming pools and miniature
golf courses. And I'm sureRobert will tell us about what some

(25:45):
of his parks has in a second.So, like, I think there's. There's
a place for like today, thisweekend, I want to go to an RV park
and I want to be close to acity or I want to be by this national
park. And then next week Iwant to go be dropped in the middle
of the wilderness and maybedrive there two hours from Chicago
with my Tesla or whatever.Right? So there's all kinds of people.
And I think the more that wecan expose them to the outdoors,

(26:05):
the better it is for everybodybecause they have a different sample
size and, and kind of lifeexperience that they can share with
everybody is the way at leastI look at it. So, Josef, one more
question for you. You talk alot, you talk a lot about the, you
know, eco friendliness of yourunits, right? Like the sustainability.
Talk us through, like, some ofthe engineering of that without giving

(26:27):
away any secrets, obviously,but like, it seems like all the things
you talked about are not aseasy to accomplish as it might roll
off the tongue.
No. When you open up the gutsof our products and see the, you
know, the components andtechnology that is in there, it's
a lot of things that goes on,you know, and it starts with the
heart of the unit, which is aconnected platform, right. It starts

(26:51):
with that digital backbone,having the connectivity, knowing
how to manage the software,and that's for the product itself
and all the components that ispart of the product. Solar panels,
batteries, chargers, you know,the electricity panels and the outlets,
the toilets, you know, all ofthose things, right? The water generator.

(27:13):
But it's also knowing whereyou're at and what the weather is
going to look like. So you canmanage your. The storage that you're
having, or let's say theresources that you're having and
how the users are using theresources. But it's also about capturing
the customer, right? So havingan app that can help you find the

(27:33):
unit, book the unit, go to theunit, operate the unit, turn on the
lights, play some music, youknow, check out how much energy I
have, you know, stuff likethat. Right. But also help. All right,
what can I do around thisunit? Is there a good hiking spot
here? Can I take my mountainbike or E bike or you know, whatever
that might be? So linking thecustomer and bringing them into that

(27:56):
experience altogether, all ofthat is physically form fitted in
a way that requires somesmartness as well, right? In terms
of the structure and making itsustain weather and wind and renewability
and biodegradability andthings like that. So it's an exciting

(28:16):
product, it's excitingexperience to work on all together
with lots of elements thatrequires smart people in many different
categories.
But also that thought thatgoes into it, right? I mean that's
the, that's one of the mostimportant things. I mean, again,
we hammer this home where wetalk about experiences and experiential
hospitality and how thosethings are going to almost be required

(28:39):
in the future. It's not enoughanymore. Like we have clients who
email us and say like, can youpost on Facebook about, you know,
my pool is open for theseason, are going to open in two
weeks. I mean, yeah, I can,but like that's not going to go viral
for you. Like you're one of250 pools within the 20 mile radius
that include hotels andeverything else. What's unique about
your pool? Tell me that. Andthere's probably nothing, right?

(29:00):
Because the pool is a pool inmost cases, unless you have a nice
water park or something likethat. But come up with a story, come
up with something that makesyou unique and different. And to
do that you have to putthought into the process like you've
done, even to the extent ofthe app that you're talking about,
right? Think about. Sorry, goahead, please.
No, no, no. I just wanted toecho. I really love what you're saying.
I mean, in the end it's aboutcreating memories, you know, creating

(29:23):
experiences and finding a wayto provide a service. How you do
that. And you talked aboutearlier, right, how we all are different,
are seeking differentexperiences, we all have a place
to play and nothing is wrong,nothing is right. You know, it's
all a good mix of things. Butyeah, we really like to talk about
what we are doing from that.You know, people can come to our

(29:45):
platform and they get wowedbecause it's pretty cool, but then
they forget about it becauseit's all about the experience. It's
the memories that they'recreating when they're out there to
some extent. So yeah, bringingthose platforms to life that, yeah,
have people have amazing experiences.
But that thought to thatthought process is something that
I think that. And I'mdefinitely not lumping all owners

(30:06):
into a group or saying anybodyspecifically did this, but I think
we, we've just come out ofespecially over Covid. But really
since 2011ish we've been in acampground industry that hasn't required
you to do much to make peoplecome. Right. And that's been a combination
of the economy and interestrates. And also social media was

(30:26):
a free place that you couldjust all of a sudden post on. You
know, it started earlier than2011, but really started taking off
for business. Pages 2011 12ishand so I think that thought process
almost. There are lots of goodpeople in our industry who are doing
it well, to be clear, butthere are lots who haven't just who
could do it well, who probablyjust haven't thought about how do
I do it or where to start. Andit doesn't require that much, doesn't

(30:49):
require a multi million dollarwater park. It could just be warm
cookies when you check in or afriendly smile or the employees walking
around or driving around agolf cart waving to people, things
like that. But I think thatthought process is really important
to just put yourself for asecond stop and put yourself into
perspective in the shoes ofthe guest who's actually staying
in the cabin of the tent tothe RV site, what would they want

(31:10):
that. Yes, they maybe haveeverything that would already make
their stay comfortable.
But what is one extra thing Icould do like curate an app or give
a list of local experiences orsomething like that that would really
make them remember me and thenmaybe they come back or maybe they
tell their friends about me.So let's go to Robert. Robert, I
want you to know I didn'tpersonally choose you to be last.

(31:32):
There was actually an emailthat was sent out where people could
send me checks and bid on whowent first and Matt and Karina sent
the highest check. So that's fair.
That's fair.
Tell us about. Yeah, Robert,like we've seen you all over LinkedIn.
You got a good partnershipwith Climb Capital. I know, but tell
us about what you guys havegoing on.
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you forhaving me on the show. And guess

(31:53):
and I think I've already heardlike common themes here. And for
us, the reason that we gotinto the RV industry really was,
you know, I was owning andinvesting apartment complexes and
mobile home parks and whatnot.And it just kind of wasn't fun. You
know, I became an RVer andfound, you know, we had, they got

(32:14):
a Bunch of little kids, right?And the Korean Matt were talking
about, you know, how theyquickly, they make friends. And that
was an eye opener for us. Likeevery park we went to in like 10
minutes, you know, they hadformed their little biker gangs and
they run around and they're,you know, we would spend three or
four days.
Good. Biker gangs, right. Whatwas the show that was on the FX or

(32:35):
whatever? Not those kind ofbiker gangs.
No, not the type of bikers.More like, you know, bicycle pedals.
So they'd run around andyou're having fun and having good
times. And we'd leavesomewhere and like, oh, we're going
to really miss our friends.And I'd ask my one son. What was
your friend's name?
I don't know.
I never actually asked, but itdoesn't matter, right? Because they

(32:55):
had a great time. And then Irealized, you know, actually as adults,
we. The same thing happened.You know, inevitably you're cooking
a hot dog or having ahamburger or you're going to share
a beer or something's brokewith your rv and you're asking your
neighbor next door, you know,hey, can you help me fix something?
And so for us, it's, I thinkit's one of the last bastions of
community, of a neighborhoodfeel that exists in a park or even,

(33:19):
you know, better, worse.
Right.
But at the end of the day,there's. There's probably a lot of
people who live their life ina neighborhood, a subdivision, who
don't know who their, theirneighbor's name. That's four houses,
you know, they're gonna live20 years.
That's me, by the way. Sorry,but go ahead.
I think that's a shame, youknow, too much, Brian. But, but,
but, yeah, so, so one of ourfundamental bases that we built or

(33:45):
are building our platformaround is the idea of disconnecting
to reconnect. Right? And sodisconnecting from those things that
pull us away from each otherand reconnecting to primarily each
other and then outside, which,which is what I would call God's
creation of reconnecting to,to nature and reconnecting to that,
I think is, is good for thesoul, period. Right? And, and putting

(34:07):
down the iPads and puttingdown the phones and sitting around
a campfire and cookingmarshmallows and burning hot dogs,
right? That's just, it's justgood for the soul. And so, you know,
to your point, Brian, we weretalking about, hey, you know, last
probably two decades. Itdoesn't take much to be a good RV
park, you Know, we, if we, ifwe're honest, the level is mediocrity.

(34:30):
If you can get to themediocre, you know, medium level,
you're probably going to besuccessful. And so I think that's,
you know, something that we'retrying to change. And so as a company,
as an investment company or asa management company, we have a lot
of faults and failures andthings that we're trying to do. But
in general, we're just tryingto elevate the entire industry as

(34:52):
much as we can, you know, sowhether we're out there helping other
owners and educating them orproviding management services or
providing investment vehicles,et cetera, right at the end of the
day, like, I want every parkto get better, and I want every component
of the parks to get better,and I want there to be more Josef's
out there, more products thatmake more sense. And so, yeah, that's

(35:12):
my soapbox platform of kind ofwhy we exist is to bring people back
to connection each other. Andthen I think we can do that. We can
do that by just elevating theindustry in general.
I mean, I think I agree witheverything you said. In my defense,
I work a hundred hours a weekand have for 15 years, so that's
probably the only reason. Idon't know my neighbors. Also, I'm
in Canada now, and it's aforeign country, and I just moved

(35:34):
here a few years ago. Butanyway, like, I'm very curious. So
let me ask you. Maybe, maybeit's an easy question for you. Maybe
it'll be a hard question.Having traveled, as I said, to so
many different RV parks andseen them, and I'm sure you have,
too, as you've done your duediligence and acquired many of your
parks, what do you think givesa park that community feel? Because
we can talk about themarshmallows and we can talk about

(35:56):
the things you talked about,but not every park feels that way,
does it? Even if it's designedto be that way.
No, it doesn't. And even, youknow, even parks that have the water
slides and park, you know, thelazy rivers sometimes don't feel
that way. So I think it startswith the absolute basics of safe
and clean, right? You have tohave. Things have to be. You have

(36:19):
to feel safe, and you have tofeel clean. You have to feel secure
for anything else to matter.You know, it doesn't matter if you
have water slides and bouncehouses. If you don't feel safe and
you don't feel like things areclean. The experience is not there.
And then I think the thirdpart is just pure friendliness. And
so training a staff, bigemphasis. Again, we're absolutely

(36:42):
not perfect, but big emphasisfor us right now is hospitality.
But that hospitality startsinternal to the team. We have to.
The team itself has to feelvalued, and we have to have hospitality
and love towards each other asa team. Then that will pour out into
the guest. And so, you know,safe, clean, and friendly. Right.
Safe, clean, and friendly isthe base of foundation for anything

(37:06):
else to work. Yourexperiences, all the uniqueness,
et cetera, are totally negatedand thrown out the window if you
don't have those three things.
Did you have to learn that?And I'm curious, because I did. Right.
Like, I always knew that myteam members should be valued. I
should take care of them, Ishould treat them with respect and
dignity and have a goodculture and work environment in addition,

(37:27):
obviously, good pay. But didyou have to learn that? Because I
had to learn how to executethat over the years.
Yeah. Not only do I have tolearn, I'm still learning it, for
sure. And it's not, you know,I would say as an individual, you
know, as a CEO, that's not. Itis inherent part of who I am, you
know, personally, like, I'mmore of a strategy, numbers, basics,

(37:51):
you know, fundamentals. And soone of the ways that we've solved
that is as I've hired, youknow, amazing team members, that
is. That is their love andpassion. You know, our CEO comes
from a hospitality realm, and,you know, like, he. He has to. He
has to drive that functioninto our. The life of our business.

(38:11):
So, yeah, you know, identifieda weakness in who I am as a person
and then went out and findsomeone that has the opposite strength.
And that's how you build ateam, in my opinion.
Yeah, I did that withorganization at my company. But you're
100% right. Right. Like, Imean, and it really resonates with
me because it all goes backinto the whole entire experience

(38:32):
we're trying to build. Like,you just talked about, like, your
team, but your team startswith your team members, because happier
team members lead to bettercustomer service, lead to more smiles
on faces, lead to more wavesin the park, lead to more. It's all
a circle. And. And so often wesee people who. And I. And I hate.
I'm not trying to lumpspecific people into specific groups,

(38:52):
but there are a lot of peoplein our industry who have been used
to hiring work campers for solong that. Because they're cheaper.
Right. And we won't get into ahuge discussion about whether I'm
for or against that. Itdoesn't matter what my opinion is.
Right. But who or who are onlywilling to still. Today I still see
job postings for 10, 11, $12an hour. And I used to tell my mom

(39:15):
like seven or eight years ago,she's on a subway like, mom, could
you live on $12 an hour? Thisis like, I don't know, 2012. She's
like, no, but like, but mom.Right. So, so I, I think there's,
there's definitely somethinglike, I don't know if you know. Do
you know who Josh I think is?Weisenstein from Team Outsider Land
Lease America. Yeah, Icommented on one of his posts. He

(39:36):
was talking about actually AIphone call systems and how those
impact both the customers andthe team members. And there was a
discussion, we were justbriefly going back and forth in the
comments about how thatactually can impact your team in
a positive way because it canallow them to do things besides answer
the same repetitive phonecalls all day and then let them get
out there and then thatchanges the culture and perception

(39:57):
of their work. I don't thinkit's ever going to make them want
to come to work. Right. Youknow, but, but like, the more you
can make it not a roll out ofbed and I have to go to work, the
better that is for everybody. Right?
For sure. I think it goes inthe recruiting side of it too. Like,
that's fundamentally, youknow, you have to start with the
right person. Can, cantraining and can things happen? Yes,

(40:22):
but if you're starting fromthe wrong, wrong standpoint. And
so we, we actually target andgo after entrepreneurs, future park
owners. Like I, I want, Iwant, you know, I want our park manager.
Hopefully someday they go buytheir own park and become a competitor.
Right. That, that is thedesire that, that I have. And in

(40:44):
that process, then, you know,means that we're recruiting a lot
more character than we arerecruiting over experience or resume.
And that, that I think hasbeen one of our keys of building
a pretty great team thus far.
I like that strategy. I willsay I'm actually the opposite when
I, when I go to hire onLinkedIn. Like, if I see you've owned

(41:04):
a business in the past, Idon't want to hire you because I'm
worried that your focus won'tbe completely on me if I treat you
well. But like, I'm not sayingit doesn't work.
It works.
Right? But yeah.
It does mean that you willhave turnover for sure. But Given
you guys know like every parkis so uniquely different even if

(41:27):
it's the same area, if it'sthe same model transit, etc. But
each park is, is justdifferent. And so I can't be at every
one of them. So I, you know,either have a choice, own one and
run it myself or own many.And, and I have to empower those
managers to run it like it wastheirs. And those people that we

(41:51):
recruit with entrepreneurialspirit, they run it like it's theirs
and they make the bestdecisions they possibly can at that
park. Of course there's gotguardrails and oversight and systems
and things in place to helpthem. But at the end of the day for
a park to be successful isthat that manager, that GM has to,
has to have the approach as a,from an owner, from an owner's perspective

(42:15):
and attack problems in that way.
Robert, did you, when youstarted and you got your first park,
were you guys, were yourunning it yourself with your family?
No. No. And the reason is thatwe had started managing properties
in a different asset classprior to that. And I would argue
that the reason that we wereable to buy our first park is that

(42:36):
we had already startedmanaging, you know, mobile home or
apartment complexesbeforehand. Otherwise I probably
would have never bought a parkknowing that there's not a, you know,
at that time and even todaythere's not a lot of third party
management companies out therethat offer a service to, to people
like you. Right. And to, to mewhen I was buying it. So it's almost

(42:59):
a necessity to, or used to bea necessity to manage yourself or
to have a, you know,management company. And luckily we'd
start, we'd already starteddown the management company route.
So I'm curious. Go aheadplease. Did you somebody have a follow
up? Do you have a follow up?
Oh, I, I was just thinkingabout our, our start you know when,

(43:20):
when we got the place weclosed June 17th and so we're mid
swing a season like start aseason for us is basically what Memorial
Day weekend and, and so that'sthe kickoff. So we come in and it's
kind of kind of like on cruisecontrol autopilot to see, get our

(43:43):
under us and figure out what'sgoing on. And, and I think we, I'd
like to say quickly but it wasslow to recognize that the person
in place running the park,nobody. So our location is probably
going to be different tocompare because the population of

(44:03):
Tokland where our property ison Willapa Bay is 120 and the median
age is 62 years old. And soyou have to go to the outskirts to
find people. And most peoplethat are hanging out at the coast
that are younger than that,they're there to avoid civilization.
They don't want to really bearound people. So the folks that
we had that were taking careof the property and we're sitting

(44:25):
back kind of watching it, butwe want to engage with the guests
and be involved. It just isnot the same experience offered.
And so when Karina and I gotinto RVing, the properties that we
went to, that the owner wasthere, or maybe not the owner, but
somebody who is a friend, aclose person to the owner, or that

(44:46):
had a great relationship withthe owner, they cared a lot more
about the customer experience.And so this person that we had, we
realized we got to rip thisband aid off and we're going to have
to suffer this. And it justhappened to be at a time where I
lost my mom to liver cancer.And then the shift in the focus started

(45:07):
to change. You got to get backto the center of what was important
to us. And you spend all theseyears focusing on make as much money
as you can, be successful,raise good kids, give them opportunities
to where we realized that whenI lost my mom, it's like, you know,
what with all the money in theworld, you can't buy back time. And

(45:28):
so we started traveling morein our RV and started to recognize
how critically important timewas and spending time with your family.
And so we wanted to take that,shift that and put that into our
business focus of likeoffering an experience, offering
the opportunity for folks tohave a good time. And it starts from

(45:49):
the moment that they pull intothe park. Because I don't know about
you guys pulling an RV with afamily, kids, dogs. I want to be
out of the house by 10:00. Sothat means that Karina's got to have
everything ready to go, packedin there, right? Well, when we leave
at one o'clock, I'm alreadypissed, I'm already mad. We're three
hours behind schedule. So bythe time I get to the park, my kids

(46:11):
are annoying, my wife isannoying me. And so I recognize quickly
I'm not different than any ofthese folks pulling into our park.
So it started from the secondthey get there to realize what they've
went through. Like, hey, man,you're here. Take a breath. Let's
get you through this. I'mgoing to help you back into your
space. If you need me to helpyou back it, I'll do it. For you,

(46:34):
but like, you're, you'remoments away from drinking a beer.
You know, you're just, you'remoments away from settling in here.
And I think that once, once wekind of shifted our focus. We watched,
we watched the income like it,it was a huge difference, a huge

(46:55):
difference on what the incomeimpact was for us with reservations.
And it's interesting, youcan't always quantify that with data,
which I think is what stopssome people, not all or even most,
but some people from takingthat path. As you. And we deal with
this with marketing clientsall the time. We work with 500 parks
is. You can't, you can't. Youdon't have that data that says, well,

(47:15):
what if I treat people just alittle bit more kind? Will that actually
translate to roi? And so Ithink that's why some people are
afraid to take that step downthat path. Not only do I not know
how to do it or execute it allthe time, I'm unsure. I have to learn.
I have to try it out. Maybeit's not my personality, but is it
actually going to make me moremoney? And I'm not saying that that's

(47:35):
the only motivation to theindustry by any stretch of the imagination.
We just talked to Robert,whose motivation is making kids happy
and creating neighborhoodatmospheres and stuff like that.
But I think maybe that's ahesitancy that exists. Would you
guys agree with that or no?Yeah, I mean, I mean, not just about
kindness, but many things thatcan't translate into necessarily.

(47:57):
I think where the industry isright now is it's, there's, there's
maybe a push for this newresort style. Right, this.
Yep.
Which is there and it is, it'sawesome. But I would argue that the
market is kind of also thecustomer base is pushing back and
saying, that's great, but I'mnot paying 170 a night for a site.

(48:19):
Right. And so there's,there's, there's this big middle
that exists between poorlyrun, poorly operated, not friendly.
And then all your resorts withall the stuff that there's, there's
missing the gap. Right. Ithink that's, that's sort of what

(48:40):
we're all saying that we canfill and can fill and, and then there's
many opportunities in that, inthat middle space to be more friendly
to. You know, I just wrotedown a little note here, like, what.
What's our initial? Wow. Youknow, that's when someone pulls in
like Matt's talking about, youknow, what's initial is it Is it
as simple as putting a dog,dog, little dog run, pee relief right

(49:02):
by the check in because thedog's got to go to the bathroom and
the kids got to go about.Everyone's got to go to the bathroom
when you pull in. You know, assimple as putting that little tiny
dog park right there and thenhaving some waters and stuff, you
know, to set it off. Becauseit's stressful driving those things
down the road and trying toget through traffic and all this
stuff.
Yeah, I mean, I think it'sunderstanding your guests. But I

(49:24):
have one more question foryou, Robert. I'm curious. You said
you own 14 parks now. Is thatthe number right now?
Yeah.
Okay, so how many are yougoing to get to or you want to get
to?
Well, three. I have threeunder contract, so.
Okay. All right, Good ambitionif I want to take over the world
too. So. So I'm curious, whenyou first owned your. Did you purchase

(49:45):
one by itself? In thebeginning, yeah. Okay, so when you
purchase that one, what wasthe moment where you were like, this
is kind of cool. I think Iwant to do 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 300?
Yeah. First one I purchasedwas beta test. Wasn't really interested,
wasn't looking for them. Afriend of mine sent it to me. It
was on a Facebook ad. I waslike. And he said, well, if you can

(50:09):
run mobile home park, youshould be able to run this. I was
like, eh, okay, so it wasworth the test. And. And so we bought
that one. It was relativelycheap. You know, it was 36 sites,
but we bought it for like525,000, something like that. And
it was not far from the house,so something I can have eyes, eyes
on. And so we did that. Andthen, then I became an RVer. I bought.

(50:32):
I got out of the Marine Corps,bought a motorhome and went on the
road. And then it started tostart to click. And on the road I
talked to an owner at one ofthe parks we were staying at in Kentucky
and ended up buying that partfrom her because she wanted to sell.
And you know, she fit thattypical demographic of someone who
built it and lived there forthe next last 20 years. I was older

(50:54):
and, you know, was ready forretirement. So I bought that one
and then came, came back home.This is all in the same year. Came
back home for like a, youknow, a two month on the road RB
trip, fell in love with as acustomer, saw the opportunity, saw
the demographic there. Andthen another opportunity was presented
to me. Almost the exact samescenario, same, same type of owner,

(51:15):
same type of property, sametype of returns. Like so I think
that's when it finally clickedof this is a business that is, can
be, can be and should be veryprofitable, which is awesome. But
it's also business I can dowith my family. It's a two for one.
Like you know, Korean Matt,love seeing the kid, you know, on

(51:35):
the, on the show. Right. That,that is why I like this business.
I can pack up my family, go toa park, they think they're on vacation
and I'm working. And so it's atwo for one. That's when it kind
of, it all clicked. Like I'mnever going to, you know, go hang
out in an apartment complexwith my family. Not there's wrong,

(51:56):
but that's just not avacation. So. But we can go shopping
for parks or we can go visitparks. We do all this stuff, we can
go develop and build parks andthat can be part of the day to day
life for me. And so yeah, thatwas, I think where the epiphany came
in. So that was three at thatpoint and in a year and then we decided
to really pivot and shift ourfocus from an investment perspective

(52:18):
away from apartments and intothe RV space.
So how do you know? Lastquestion I have and then I think
we'll run. Almost running outof time is a good conversation for
you. You're at 14 now. How doyou decide when you're ready for
15? And what I mean by that,is it, is it just a, is it just a
I found a good deal or is it aI have the 14th park I acquired running

(52:40):
well and it's that community,neighborhood feel. Now I'm ready
to do it again or something else.
Truthfully answered, I'mprobably more on the good deal side.
You know, that's, that's,there's nothing wrong with that.
That's my forte is findingdeals and putting them together,
but in with constraints. Soknowing, knowing that it takes, you

(53:06):
know, it takes a big team torun multiple properties well. So
there's a point where you haveto grow to have a corporate, corporate
staff. Right. A marketingofficer and an operating officer.
So there's, there's a tippingpoint there where you have to grow
to have those people or youcan't. And so that's where we're

(53:28):
at. Like we're at, we're at apoint where we have the team, we
have the staff, we have thetraining, we have the processes.
And now we, you know, we haveto continue to grow for a little
bit. More to be able to besupport that and sustain it, but
within the restraint of beingin geography, you know, geographical
of where the other parks are.So they still continue to mix. When

(53:51):
we buy a new park, it shouldmake the other parks more efficient.
If we're buying a new park andit makes the team and the other parks
less efficient, then we're outof our growth path.
Karina and Matt, are you stillthinking about owning a second park
one day?
Yeah, I think actually, youknow, Robert, just hearing you talk

(54:15):
about you and your family andhow that, you know, how you're able
to incorporate that, that'slike exactly our vision and what
we've always talked about,because our biggest thing is just
our family. You know,obviously we need money to survive
on this, on this earth. And sohow can we incorporate the two without

(54:36):
taking away time from ourkids? And, you know, we both are.
Our foundation is, you know,faith based. Our foundation is also
valuing our time with ourchildren and not just putting them
in daycare for other people toraise them. We want to be the sole
people to raise our ownchildren. And so just the combo of

(55:01):
the two. And so we definitelywant to expand our portfolio and
continue buying more properties.
Yeah, and I think what thegoal was when we started is to the
park was run down. Whenyou're. When you're on the coast,
like, you get. You get a lotof that saltwater air that rusts
and just destroys stuff. Andso we realized after the first year,

(55:26):
when you pay somebody a wageto be there and you give them a space,
like, it actually costs you agood amount of money that you could
be generating for thebusiness. So instead of hiring somebody
to do it, we've decided to gothe route to do it ourselves. Save
that money, Put that moneythat we would have been spending

(55:48):
on somebody and the money thatwould be losing, put it right back
into the park so we can geteverything up to where it needs to
be. And so we put together, wesaid, hey, let's do three to five
years of this. Put all themoney back in, get all. Because it's
been a money grab for previousowners. They take the money, they
just take everything out ofit. Never put anything back in. Squeeze

(56:10):
all the juice, and then theyget rid of it. Because now they're
starting to go down inrevenue. So we want to take all the
revenue we are making, put itall right back in the park, show
the folks where their money isactually going so they have lots
more years available to cometo this place. And then once we get
to that point and we know thatwe've got it where it needs to be,
then we can take that money,hire somebody that is going to feel

(56:33):
the same way about it as weare. And there's a lot of folks who
actually travel to the parkwho are looking to retire, who love
it there. Those are the firstpeople that I think of being so close
to the business. I want totalk to those people. I want to approach
those folks about, hey, how'dyou like to actually live here and
run the park? You love theplace. Like, would you like to do

(56:54):
this for your retirement? Andthen it's somebody who cares just
as much about the place as wedo and then we can go to the next
opportunity. That's kind ofthe way that I see our future of
this going.
All right, so you guys are onthe west coast. Robert, I should
know this, but where are mostof your parks located?
Primarily southeast.
Okay, so that's perfect. So,Robert, you take the eastern half

(57:17):
of the United States. Karinaand Matt will take the western half.
And you, you guys will all buycabins from Josef. Yeah, we're fine.
Sounds wonderful.
You got this all figured out.See, it only took an hour.
There you go. Thanks, Brian.
But yeah, thank you guys forjoining us. So we're going to wrap
up the show briefly, but Iwant to hear like, Robert, where
can they find out more, moreabout your businesses? If you want

(57:39):
to cite multiple, feel free.
sure.Theinvestmentsideisclimbcapital.comandthenthe property
managementconsultingkindofbusiness kind
of business component isunhitchedmgmt. So management abbreviated
unhitchedmgmt.com all theothernormalplaces.

(57:59):
Yeah, we'll have to have youback on the show. I'm sorry we didn't
get to your managementcompany, although I felt like we
had a great conversationthough. That's pretty good. Karina
and Matt, where can they learnmore about your RV park?
We're on Instagram andFacebook. Bayshore RV park and guest
suites. Toklande Washington.People can also find us on LinkedIn

(58:20):
like our personal accounts orjust at our personal Facebook accounts.
We're actually friends with abunch of our own guests. Our big
motto is just, you know, comeas guests, leave as friends. So yeah,
we, we love to stay in touchwith everybody.

(58:40):
Awesome. And Josef, where canthey learn more about your cabins?
Yeah, pretty much same as theother ones, but electricoutdoors.tech
or LinkedIn. Also on Instagramand Facebook, but primarily through
the tech platforms. Right now,our website or LinkedIn that's the
stage we are in.
Awesome. Well, thank you guysfor being here. There's one quick

(59:02):
thing I want to say is, and Itold you guys at the beginning, I
think I said I was going totalk about this in the beginning.
And then we got into so manygood conversations, I was just like,
well, this isn't important.We'll save it to the end. But I am
launching a new podcaststarting next week. So we're going
to keep doing this podcast,but we have another one that we're
going to launch. It's going tobe called Outwired and it's going
to be with three co hosts.We're not actually going to have
guests on it. It's going to bemyself, Greg Emmert from Camp Strategy,

(59:25):
and Scott Bahr from CairnConsulting Group, who's been doing
the KOA North American reportsfor, I don't know, 20, 30 years,
however long they've beendoing them, and does our modern campground
research reports. And so we'rejust going to have fun and we're
going to do like a, like anunfiltered assessment of data and
AI and tech and all the thingsthat I think there's a need for a
conversation to have in thisindustry that will prepare owners

(59:48):
for the future, but also in away that is not advertised or toned
down or PR spend or we maycuss once in a while. We may drink
whiskey. I don't know what'sgoing to happen, but we're going
to have fun and we're going totell our version of the truth and
hopefully it will be valuableto people. So exciting just starting
that next week. So. But thankyou guys for joining us for another
episode of MC Fireside Chats.Really appreciate it as always. And

(01:00:11):
we'll see you guys next weekfor another episode. Thanks.
Bye. Bye.