MC Fireside Chats - March 26th, 2025

In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, Brian Searl convened a panel of industry leaders to delve into the pressing issues and evolving trends impacting the RV and outdoor recreation sectors. The discussion featured Eleonore Hamm from RVDA of Canada, Shane Devenish of the Canadian RV Association (CRVA), Greg Emmert, Phil Ingrassia representing RVDA, and Aaron Bannon from the American Outdoors Association. The episode tackled the complex landscape of potential tariffs, shifting consumer behaviors, and the innovative strides being made within the industry, providing valuable insights for campground owners, RV dealers, and outdoor enthusiasts alike. The discussion began with the potential impact of tariffs on the RV industry. Eleonore Hamm explained that RVDA of Canada is providing information and resources to its members regarding potential counter tariff measures. She highlighted the lack of a sufficient Canadian supply chain to meet the demand, with a significant portion of RVs sold in Canada being imported from the US. The tariffs, if implemented, would affect RVs crossing the border, potentially increasing costs for dealers and consumers. Shane Devenish emphasized the difficulty in keeping everyone informed due to the rapidly changing situation. He also clarified that the Canadian countermeasures would only take effect if the US imposes tariffs on Canadian goods. Phil Ingrassia, speaking from Washington D.C., acknowledged the industry’s concern and stressed the importance of free and fair trade. He noted the interconnectedness of the US and Canadian RV industries. Brian Searl raised the concern about the potential impact on private campgrounds if tariffs do go into effect. Eleonore Hamm responded that there could be a positive side for Canadian campgrounds as people might choose to camp locally. However, she expressed concern about the long-term impact on dealers and potentially on consumers. Aaron Bannon provided an overview of the American Outdoors Association, which comprises organizations providing facilitated recreation experiences on public lands. He discussed the crossover between his members and the RV industry, noting that many guides live in RVs and that a robust tourism industry benefits outfitters. Bannon also mentioned trends like the increasing popularity of glamping and a shift towards shorter, less risky trips. Greg Emmert and Shane Devenish weighed in on the trend of shorter trips, linking it to economic uncertainty and fuel costs. Shane Devenish shared anecdotal evidence of some people planning longer trips within Canada. Brian Searl then posed a question about how businesses in different sectors could pivot in a moderately challenging economic scenario. Aaron Bannon suggested that outfitters might focus on attracting customers from nearby metropolitan areas and diversify their offerings. Greg Emmert emphasized the importance of partnerships and experiential offerings for campgrounds, particularly those near population centers. Eleonore Hamm said that Canadian RV dealers might focus more on pre-owned sales and service. Shane Devenish highlighted the challenges faced by parts suppliers and manufacturers on both sides of the border. Phil Ingrassia discussed the complexities of the situation for US manufacturers due to the sourcing of components and the impact of consumer sentiment on RV sales. Phil Ingrassia then discussed the RVIA’s emerging leaders program, which aims to connect and develop industry professionals. Aaron Bannon spoke about similar programs within the Outdoors Association, emphasizing the value of fresh perspectives. Phil Ingrassia also discussed Go RVing’s experiential events, which are designed to introduce RVing to people who may have little exposure to it. Eleonore Hamm added that Go RVing Canada also participates in similar events. Brian Searl then brought up Pebble, an all-electric RV with advanced technology. Greg Emmert provided details about Pebble’s features, including its...

Episode Transcript

Brian Searl (00:00):
Welcome everybody to not episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perk.
Super excited to be here withyou for our RV industry outdoor
recreation focused episode.
I don't know what Lisa is doing but she'spopping things up all over my screen.
She's typing and in the wrong box.
So that was fun experienceto start to show.
Thank you, Lisa.
We always gotta have something thatentertaining to start the show here.

(00:21):
Welcome everybody for our, someof our recurring guests here.
We have Eleonore Hamm from RVDA of Canada.
We have Shane Devenish from theCanadian RV Association (CRVA).
Greg Emmert here from whereare you from, Greg again?

Greg Emmert (00:33):
Akron, Ohio.
How's that?

Brian Searl (00:34):
Okay.
Akron, Ohio.
Greg from Akron, Ohio.
Just somebody we stumbled inacross in the street and we're
like, come into the studio.

Greg Emmert (00:41):
Man on the street.

Brian Searl (00:41):
You're on the show today.
So that's Greg.
And then we have Phil Ingrassia,who's sideways from RVDA.
That's a really cool take.
I wanna do that, Phil.
I like you literally aresideways in your camera.

Greg Emmert (00:51):
Looks like he's skydiving into the show.

Brian Searl (00:53):
It is super cool.
Like he always,

Greg Emmert (00:55):
It is actually.

Brian Searl (00:55):
Is he the attention grabber in the meeting?
Shane and Eleonore?
Like he's always gotta bethe one that's I'm different.

Eleonore Hamm (01:00):
Not usually, but no.

Shane Devenish (01:04):
Things are upside down today anyway, Brian,

Greg Emmert (01:06):
It's, yeah, it's upside down day.

Brian Searl (01:08):
That, that works.
And then we have Aaron Bannon fromthe Executive Director of American
Outdoors Association who was here andnow Aaron, we're seeing like, I don't
know what that is, like a skirt or apillow or a curtain or, I don't know.
Something fun, Aaron.
But if you can hear us we'll getyou on here and we'll talk to you.
But let's start off with the thestuff we don't wanna spend too
much time on, but I feel like weneed to touch on at least briefly.

(01:31):
And I don't like, I've given plentyof commentary on this on Outwired
our other podcast that will airlater today, but we've talked about
that with Greg, who's a cohost.
And I feel like it's just, I'd liketo just turn it over to maybe the,
either Eleonore or Shane first to justgive your representation of how you
feel the issue is and where we can goor help or how it's impacting things.

(01:54):
So who wants to take that?

Eleonore Hamm (01:57):
I guess I can start.
We've been, as an association justtrying to guide our members, with
as much information as possiblepertaining to the potential tariffs.
Obviously the situation changes.
It's, every few days.
But what we know now we do have anadvocacy toolkit on our website.
Our website is RVDA.ca.
We have information from members interms of, key messages if they're

(02:21):
talking to government officials.
And this really has to do with thepotential counter tariff measures that
will come in May at this point, come intoplay on April 2nd for the RV industry.
So some key messages.
We have samples of lettersthat we've sent to government.
And in our, the main message is thatwe're trying to get RVs exempt from
phase two of counter tariff measuresbecause we don't have an adequate

(02:46):
supply chain of manufacturing withinCanada to be able to supply the dealer
network with the appropriate product.
I think we said last year of the 30,000RVs that were shipped into Canada
there were about 33,000 units soldand over 30,000 came in from the US.
So the lack of Canadian supplychain is really going to impact us.

(03:07):
And, the dollar right now is theexchange rate with the US dollar is
not great either, so it's gonna makeproducts more difficult for dealers
to purchase and have on the ground.
We're just trying to keep everyoneinformed and ensure that we give them the
best information to to talk to politiciansand and fulfill the consultation
program sets, for their business.

(03:28):
That's on our side, Shane.

Shane Devenish (03:30):
Yeah, and thank God for Eleonore keeping our dealers
up to date, which is an extremelydifficult task because I think
things change a lot every day.
And even today, right before this meeting,we got a call from a manufacturer who
is still uncertain about timing andand when they need to get the units
outta their yard in, into Canada.

(03:51):
So it's hard to keep everybodyinformed when things change so much.
Her group's doing a great jobof of of letting know exactly
what's going on for the dealers.
So it's a difficult situation for us.

Brian Searl (04:03):
For those of us, for those maybe us too, but like for everybody who
maybe doesn't understand exactly how orwhen this impacts RVs, like obviously
the inventory is a huge issue as you justbrought up, Eleonore, but when does this.
Potential tariff.
When will it hit the RVs?
When the shipment crosses the borderat the purchase point and then later

(04:24):
delivery is like, when did that happen?

Eleonore Hamm (04:26):
Yeah, it would be at the border.
As of, and again, this iswhat we know right now.
There's a consultation process that goeson until April 2nd April break that the
US administration is going to is going toreveal whatever their studies have shown.
And that's the date.
Theoretically, right now that phase twoof the Canadian counter tariff measures
come into play and RVs all on phase two.

(04:49):
So at midnight of that.
Day of April 2nd when a unit crossesthe border the tariff will be 25%.
Tariff will be imposed.
The one exception is that if it wasalready in transit prior to that,
so in transit means it's sw theyard with the driver has a blading.
And then it can so there'sa few days grace period.

(05:10):
So if it's already on the roadon the way to the dealer lot.
But the other thing is that fordealerships, they're going to have
to pay that that surtax at theborder at the time it crosses.
So depending on the dollar volumes ofinventory crossing, it can be quite
substantial tax that will definitelyimpact the cash flow of our dealers.
And ultimately may makeproduct more expensive.

Brian Searl (05:33):
And obvious.

Shane Devenish (05:34):
Yeah.
Brian?
Yeah, if I can add to Eleonore,so it's the Canadian response,
they're called countermeasures.
And that they would take effectshould the Trump administration
put tariffs on Canada's goods.
So we certainly wouldn't do anything ifif those tariffs weren't imposed first.

Brian Searl (05:56):
That's what I wanted to ask too.
And just to clarify, because, andobviously this is a very, as we've
noted, fast moving situation fora number of different reasons.
But for, I guess my question is thatthis initial batch, as I understand it,
that is supposed to come, not initial,but our second phase of our response
in Canada to the United States tariffsthat are supposed to come into effect,

(06:19):
as you guys have noted on April 2nd,that is a response to the tariffs
that are already in play, correct.
No, not these new reciprocals thatthe United States is threatening.
In addition.
On their own April 2nd.

Eleonore Hamm (06:33):
So no, that would be, so all the tariffs right now, the initial
25% tariff on all Canadian productgoing to the US was put on pause.
Yes.
Until April 2nd by the US administration.
There are some tariffs but thosebe things that would be not under
the current free trade agreement.
So it's called Kuzma in Canada andit's called U-S-M-C-A in the US.

Brian Searl (06:55):
And steel and aluminum too.

Eleonore Hamm (06:57):
So RVs are included in that, so that's fine.
But because so everything was supposedto be on pause, but then I think on March
13th, the steel and aluminum tariffs.
Came into play into the USso an all steel and aluminum.
And at that point in time our governmentput in some countermeasures or
counter tariffs for a small percentageof products, which is phase one.

(07:20):
And as they wait for the response tothe study done by the US administration,
they've highlighted what phase twowill be and that will be April 2nd.
So I know it's,

Brian Searl (07:31):
The reason I was trying to clarify is I'm just curious at what point
do you think the government of Canadawould back down on all these new tariffs
for RV industries or everything else?
In my mind it would have to bea, the original 25% would've
to be off the table, right?
Generally speaking, like obviouslywe can hope and lobby and

Eleonore Hamm (07:50):
yes

Brian Searl (07:50):
for, right.
But

Eleonore Hamm (07:51):
I think in simple terms, if there were no tariffs put
on Canadian product going to theUS if there were the ability to,
and I think the ultimate game is torenegotiate the free trade agreement.
If those negotiations were started and putinto play then I think our government, I
would be hopeful that our government wouldtake those counter tariffs off the table.

Brian Searl (08:14):
And has there been an increase in things leaving the
yard to beat these tariffs, eventhough you've had short notice?

Eleonore Hamm (08:21):
Anecdotally, I feel there has been.
We did see shipmentswere up in February 6%.
I don't know.
I'm gonna say that's probablyMarch shipments will be up as well.
Just because our dealers aretrying to get as much product
as they can prior to April 2nd.

Shane Devenish (08:35):
Yeah, we're, what we're doing, what we're seeing, Brian is a
large number of dealers, rent a lot on,just on the other side of the border.
So Port Hu on the other side is Sarniaand people are are renting lots there
and then cutting their trip in half.
So they're just going from Elkhartdropping it off in Sarnia, going back
to Elkhart, and he is getting in asmany into the country as possible.

(08:58):
We're hearing a lot about that.

Brian Searl (09:00):
So a little not a lot, but a little bit of good news
that we're able to get some in.
Obviously that's not,we're not happy with that.
But it's something.
Phil, you're in, did I hear yousay you're in Washington D.C?

Phil Ingrassia (09:12):
I am.

Brian Searl (09:12):
Do.
You wanna touch briefly fromthe American side of things?

Phil Ingrassia (09:16):
Yeah.
I think Eleonore summed it up quite well.
We were fortunate to have Eleonoreand her volunteer leaders at the
RVDA convention or at the RVDAboard meeting earlier this month.
And, I think the industry is veryconcerned about this because, as
Eleonore pointed out, 30,000 unitsis a lot of units for our industry.

(09:37):
It depending on the year, it'sbetween eight and 12% in recent years.
And anything that impacts ourmanufacturers, our US manufacturers
ability to be profitable andweakens the whole system.
We're very hopeful that the administrationand the US and the Canadian government
can can get this worked out becauseit is a North American RV industry.

(10:02):
Yes.
Meaning US and Canada.
And we've been very, closely alignedfor many years and we, we don't want
to see anything jeopardize that unity.

Brian Searl (10:12):
Have you seen any movement from your discussions down there?

Phil Ingrassia (10:17):
It's a big issue.
It covers a lot of differentindustries and it is a fluid situation.
It just depends on what day and evenwhat hour it's, and but we are letting
the administration and Congress knowthat these types of trade wars can
really cripple the industry and we justwant to see fee free and fair trade.

(10:42):
Fair trade, as well.
The industry is.
He was very unified on thisissue and trying to work
through this as best we can.
I know that's a wishy-washy answer, but

Brian Searl (10:51):
That's the best you have right now.
I think.

Phil Ingrassia (10:52):
It's and the group, they are doing a great job.

Brian Searl (10:57):
I think my question to you then, just to set the expectations for
our audience, that is, I would say mostlya mix of primarily campground and RV
park owners, but obviously we have somedealers and manufacturers and people
like that who watch, who aren't even wellcommunicated with everybody on this call.
I think we all know what the best casescenario is to get rid of the tariffs.

(11:18):
Is there a sense of playing devil'sadvocate with the worst outcome we could
expect is if the, these do go into place.
Like what will the impact on thedealers, I think you've already said
that they may not have inventory.
What would be the impact on potentiallyprivate campgrounds and, 'cause I
did see an email from Kara as well.
It was lobbying for this, andthere's downstream impact on

(11:39):
the campgrounds too, right?

Eleonore Hamm (11:41):
Yeah, I think there's gonna be a couple sides.
The positive side is in Canada, peopleare looking to, to camp locally.
May not be traveling as far it'salmost like a repeat of 2020.
Camping locally.
We're hearing anecdotally from localcampgrounds that that they're getting
that they're getting extra bookings.
With the stronger American dollar,weaker Canadian dollar, we're getting

(12:04):
people that have campgrounds across,or close to the border where they're,
I think they're getting lots ofcalls from from US campers that wanna
come across and take advantage of.
Of the price point.
From that side, from a tourismperspective I don't know that it'll
be that there'll be that much harmon the Canadian side of the border.
Obviously for our dealersit's really gonna depend on
how long this lasts, right?

(12:26):
We hope that if there are the tariffs,it's short-lived and then business
can return back to a sort of a normalstate if long term if the tariffs
go on longer term I think you'll seedealers canceling orders and maybe
looking at pre-owned product to sell.
It'll definitely impact the manufacturersand pack the consumers at the end.

Brian Searl (12:48):
All right.
Will anybody else have anything toadd before we turn to happier topics?

Shane Devenish (12:53):
Anything's happier.

Brian Searl (12:54):
Anything's happier.
How about Aaron Bannon from the ExecutiveDirector of American Outdoor Association.
Aaron, are you happier?
Generally speaking?
That's the openingquestion I have for you.

Aaron Bannon (13:03):
Am I happier?
Happier every day?
Thanks for asking, Brian.

Brian Searl (13:07):
Alright, good.

Aaron Bannon (13:08):
I had some connectivity issues for about the first 10
or 15 minutes, so I apologize.

Brian Searl (13:12):
That's okay.
It's just me talking mostlyfor the first 10 to 15 minutes.
You didn't miss much important.
Now we get to the real meatof the important stuff.
So although you did missPhil, he was important and.
So tell us what is the AmericanOutdoors Association for the people who
don't know who are watching the show?

Aaron Bannon (13:26):
Yeah, happy to and pleasure to be here.
Thanks so much for having me.
It's great to connectwith bridge audiences.
I think we share in our ownmembership, a lot of folks who are
engaged with your community as well.
So America Outdoors Associationis made primarily of.
Membership organizations who areoutfitter organizations, they're
providing facilitated recreationexperiences on public lands.

(13:50):
A lot of our outfitters are providinglike rafting or paddle sports experiences.
So a single day whitewater trip or maybea multi-day raft supported kayaking
trip in some of the most iconic.
Landscapes in the Americas.
There's obviously a ton of connectivitybetween the work that we do in
providing these experiences in theplaces that people stay to have them.

(14:11):
And in fact, we have a sizableclass of members who are in
the adventure resorts arena.
And they're running experiences butthey're also providing campgrounds,
other lodging restaurants, likethat whole inclusive experience.
So those folks are interestedin all aspects of what I expect
we're gonna talk about today.

Brian Searl (14:30):
I don't know what we're gonna talk about.
I have no plane for this show, but I wannamake sure that Greg is unmuted 'cause
I saw he had an X by his name, Lisa.
Just in case we're likecontrolling his mute and he can't

Greg Emmert (14:39):
No.
I muted.
I muted on purpose just incase I got the sneezes today.
So I just wanted to be, I wantedto be prepared to stay the load.

Brian Searl (14:45):
I'm so looking forward to do two hours Outwired with you later.
That's gonna be amazing.

Greg Emmert (14:49):
I bet.
I'm going back to mute.

Brian Searl (14:52):
Okay.
So Aaron I have in my notes obviouslywe wanna talk about a little bit about
sustainability and conservation efforts.
I'm interested to hear your take, andI always ask first before we get to
that, for the people who we have on fromassociations who are outside more of our
traditional audience, that blend together.
Obviously there's a ton of crossover,but how do you feel your, the, out
the American Outdoors Associationor the people that you serve, the

(15:13):
consumers of the businesses reallycross over and interplay with the
RV industry and camping just inyour own kind of words and thoughts.

Aaron Bannon (15:21):
I would say pretty extensively even to the point that
a lot of guides who are operatingin their seasonal situations,
they're often living in RVs.
An essential component of theinfrastructure of a lot of these
these outfitters business businesses.
While some folks are gonna have interintegrated experiences on their land,

(15:41):
a lot of them are gonna be dependingon a robust travel and tourism
industry that's coming through theirtown and and making a stop and taking
some time in a rural economy to havean authentic recreation experience.
Plays very naturally into the RV industry.
I think where there's notexplicit partnership, there's
an implicit symbiotic.
Mutually beneficial, symbioticrelationship for sure.

Brian Searl (16:05):
Is there any changes that you've noticed in your industry over
the last year or so in either behavioror types of camping people are doing or
activities or, and the reason I ask thatis because we've had a lot of discussions
on this show as well as on out wire, justabout the, for example, the RV industry.
The trend toward smaller, camper vans is,in smaller rigs versus the larger ones.

(16:27):
They're still buying all those things.
But that trend is there.
The trend in the camping industry,you've seen people, maybe who
might have been tent campersbefore who are becoming ampers now.
And some of those areobviously buying RVs.
So is there any trends that you've seenthat you think are important to, to maybe
highlight among your audience of people?

Aaron Bannon (16:45):
Yeah, definitely on the glamping front, more
folks who are branching out intothat and trying to provide, I.
In addition to maybe more traditionalrustic cat and lodging they'd be providing
some some wall tents that are pretty nice,like some enhanced camping experiences.
So you're still in the outdoorsmore or less, but yeah, living as
large as you can in that situation.

(17:06):
Clamping is a place that a lot of folksare interested in looking and going.
And you know what I thought to point outwhen you mentioned that would be, I we've
seen a kind of a tightening of trips.
So what that means for our multi-daytrips is, it would've been easier to
fill, say a two week drafting trip.
Certainly pre covid, but I would saythe trend I'm talking about has been

(17:28):
outgoing for probably 20 years or so.
And yeah, the idea is just to try to packit in a little bit more, get as much done
as you can and then either head onto yournext destination, but people pack it in.
And so our our industry has adaptedand kind to provide shorter trips.
I would say there's probablya bit of a trend away from

(17:49):
perceived riskier trips too.
More family friendly experiencesare definitely on the rise.

Brian Searl (17:55):
What would you like

Aaron Bannon (17:56):
Yeah?

Brian Searl (17:57):
Just for our audience, what would you define as perceived
riskier, just in your own?

Aaron Bannon (18:02):
If you're looking at like a whitewater trip, right?
There's classes of.

Brian Searl (18:06):
Okay, so riskier, like dangerous wise.
Okay.
I didn't know if that waslong-term driving to, that was
where I was thinking it was going.
I just misunderstood.
Okay.

Aaron Bannon (18:14):
I say perceived though.
Like I was intentional about callingit perceived risk because really
on any of these on any of thesevery safe, the inherent risk is,
the inherent risk is real, right?
And the competency of guides who areleading like class four and class
five rapid trips is extremely high.
Yeah, the inherent risk is alwaysthere when you're participating in a
recreation experience on, a landscapeboth with natural features and like

(18:36):
natural obstacles, but yeah guides canhelp mitigate that risk significantly.

Brian Searl (18:40):
I think it's interesting that you bring up the shorter trips
and maybe Greg or even Shane, from yourexpertise with the Canadian Camping
and RV Council, or Association, sorry.
How long is it gonna take me to get that?
But either one of you, if you two wouldlike to weigh in too, 'cause I know
we've had these discussions from thecamping side of that people are spending
less time on their trips, like shorternights, maybe shorter duration stays.

(19:05):
And so that kind of lines up withwhat Aaron is saying, I think.
I dunno if either of you wanna touchon that, but we've seen some of
those kind of trends on our side too.
Scott Bahr, who is on our Outwiredshow, who appears in the show too,
has been mentioning some data pointsabout how people have been packing the
outdoors in trails and hiking and allthe things in Maine where he lives.

(19:25):
But he's seen far few of 'em stayingovernight and we don't know if that's
budgetary or we assume it is, butwe don't really have that data yet.

Greg Emmert (19:35):
Yeah, I have no real hard data to offer, but
definitely seeing a trend anytime.
The economy gets uncertain.
People, they seem to stay closer to home.
They seem to pack it in, as Aaron said.
That's a great way to, to putit, it it kicks off an old
nineties rap song in my head.
Pack it up, pack it in.
It's very it's all about timeand disposable income, like

(19:56):
discretionary income, right?
Like how much do you have Ifit tightens, the trips get
shorter, you get closer to home.
Fuel costs are a bigpart of that, I'm sure.
But I know my experience as a campgroundowner was definitely that in the in
the oh eight crash we watched all ofour guests start to come from a tighter
and tighter circle around our property.
Not surprising that's happening now,being that there's a bit of uncertainty.

(20:17):
What do you think, Shane?

Shane Devenish (20:19):
Yeah.
Definitely with the price of gas gettingup there people are looking more locally.
But I just spent a a weekend ata, at an RV show in Monkton, new
Brunswick out east, and it wasamazing how many people came by.
And said that they were taking along trip across Canada This year,
I it was one of the first showsI've, ever had the chance to talk

(20:43):
to so many in this role, which was.
On a camping association forNova Scotia desk sort of thing.
But there was a lot more people than Ithought that were looking at at taking
longer trips and that's great to see too.

Greg Emmert (20:57):
That's interesting too.
I wonder if that's a bit of lag, right?
It always feels like maybe thosefolks had that trip planned.
Didn't expect what's going on now.
'cause of course, who can,nobody's got a crystal ball.
And if you do, it's never that accurate.
So I wonder if there's lag, likenext season is when we really
feel the effects of these.
Hopefully it never happens.
We don't ever feel the effect of it.
But you seem to wonder about that.

(21:18):
What do you think about that?
It's maybe,

Brian Searl (21:20):
I'm gonna interject and say maybe, and then let them, let the
experts actually give their opinion.
But my thing is maybe, but alsolike lots of Canadians aren't gonna
cross the border in as much numbers.

Greg Emmert (21:29):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (21:29):
And maybe they're enjoying their own country.

Greg Emmert (21:31):
Already seeing that go down.
Yeah.
And good for them.
Yeah.
For keeping it at home, if that'swhat they feel they need to do.

Brian Searl (21:36):
But go ahead.
If somebody has data, please.
I don't, so.
On the long border trips.

Shane Devenish (21:42):
No.
Yeah, I don't have any data.
Just Okay.
Just what people were saying.
And, I think to Greg's point.
Did they wake up in February andsay, we want to go across Canada now?
It's probably, for whatever reason,maybe these decisions were made last year
'cause you gotta do a lot of planning.

Brian Searl (21:57):
Yeah, for sure.

Shane Devenish (21:58):
Yeah, and it could be that, or it could be, just the climate
today and they wanna do it, but it wasjust interesting to talk to so many
people that was their plan for this year.

Brian Searl (22:08):
So I think it's interesting, let's spend just a few minutes talking
about how the different businesses inall our sectors would pivot here in
what we think might happen in, let'ssay a mediocre scenario, somewhere in
between, best and worst case, whichis probably what's likely to happen.
So we've got the Aaron from theAmerican outdoors Association,
like how do businesses like yours?
You talked a little bit on it briefly.

(22:29):
I'm gonna ask three questionsto prepare all of you guys for
this, and then Aaron can start.
But how do you, how do your, 'causeyou represent businesses, right?
Or do you represent consumers?
I'm sorry, I don't know.

Aaron Bannon (22:39):
Yeah, businesses, outfit or businesses.

Brian Searl (22:41):
Okay.
So how do your, like you've talked alittle bit about how they're pivoting
for shorter trips and things like that.
How do you, how do they pivot in yourmind to either maybe go after more locals
instead of people from further away?
There's obviously really famoususing your example of whitewater
destinations that people would comeacross the country to see, right?
Tennessee and around the Smoky Mountains.
I remember going there,North Carolina there.

(23:02):
But so how do those businesses pivotand whether they're a temporary consumer
during whatever we're going through?
I.
Or whether they're a couple yearconsumer or it's a permanent
shift, how do they adjust theirmarketing to attract those people?
And then the same question goes to,Greg, for campgrounds, if we're talking
about reaching people who we've seena shift toward marketing toward more

(23:23):
longer term for a lot of our propertiesbecause the trans lead isn't there.
But then there's also that playof if your circle is tightening,
how do I get local people more?
And then for the RV dealershipsspecifically let's play this devil's
advocate of what if they don't comeacross the border and they have to
ship to shift to selling more used RVs?
How do they market those effectively'cause they're still great units, right?

(23:47):
So Aaron, you wanna start?

Aaron Bannon (23:49):
Yeah, sure.
A couple of thoughts like it's notuniversal and certainly like these
last couple years haven't necessarilytold the story, but in oh eight.
When there was that pretty significanteconomic downturn the short term
effect was heavy, but the, inthe next year or so, like we saw
a surge as you're describing offolks going less further afield.

(24:11):
But but going to find thosenearby recreation experiences.
Outfitters in those kinds of situationsare often like looking to that
metropolitan draw that they can reach.
So if you're in Moab you're tryingto reach more to Salt Lake City, or
if you're in Grand Junction, you'retrying to pull from the Denver
Metro area folks to your experience.
It's it's not there's notalways a one-to-one in how the

(24:34):
economy impacts outfitters.
It's more like in how the, howeconomic pressures play out.
Conversely, like to that, thatshorter experience thing folks will
are just compelled to adapt theexperiences they have to offer.
So they may diversify, right?
And put something in if they're ableto if they have the private line to
support it, like a ropes course or aZipline course that folks can do quickly.

(24:56):
Or they might even try to find anew place that they could operate
and try and get permitted to providea shorter trip or trip that's
closer to a bigger metropolitanarea to expand their operations.

Brian Searl (25:06):
And I think it's important too, as we talk to, to campground owners,
and we're gonna pivot here in a sec,Greg, in his opinion, but I think it's
important to understand like a lot ofthese places that Aaron represents.
Are wonderful places that youshould be advertising as packages or
businesses to go to when you come,stay at your campground in your rv.
Because these are things that will drawlocals out and maybe they've never seen

(25:27):
or heard or experienced them beforebecause they've never stayed in that tight
knit circle or haven't for a long time.
And so using these local businessesin all this stuff, I think is a great
way to enhance your offerings withoutinfrastructure capital outlays.
What do you think, Greg?

Greg Emmert (25:41):
I think next time you gotta let me, because you just took it, you
just walked all over where I was headed.
What do you And now Igot nothing left to say.
I'm going back on mute.
Hold on a second.
No.
That's one of 'em for sure.
Partner.
If you're being and we talked aboutthis a little bit before on out
Wired, or maybe it was on here.
It, Aaron said it perfectly.
There's no one-to-one.
If you're a park and you're withinan hour, or if the economy starts

(26:04):
to squeeze even two hours of adecent population center, okay?
You've got someplace you can market to.
You can try to change your not necessarilyamenities, but your activities,
your experiential offerings, right?
To try to bring people in.
You might have to adjust somepricing, run some different
specials, and see how those work.
Offer your long-term customers thathave been coming to see you for years.

(26:26):
Get those email blasts.
Go and try to offer themdiscounted pricing, if that's
what it takes to fill those sites.
But if you're not near a populationcenter, if you're one of those
parks that, people from the Eastcoast cross through as they go to
the mountains or to the west, youmight, that's a really tough one.
How do you talk somebody intotaking that long trip when they're

(26:46):
not taking that long trip anymore?
So typically during the downturns,those parks suffer more.
Unfortunately then that'sa lot harder to remedy.
Yeah.
But, try to get those experiences going.
To your point, Brian an organizationlike Aaron and his members, boy, if
you've got something like that near you.
Just try to latch onto it.
If you've got a town near you,maybe there's brewery tour or

(27:06):
something you can put together there.
There's so many different things you cando through partnerships, and I think that
is, my work as an independent consultantfor outdoor hospitality, I think
that's a lot of the times overlooked.
And sometimes even, I forget to mentionit to clients because it, to me, it seems
so basic, but it's not to everybody.
And it's so powerful because you'regrab, you've got your audience and
their audience you feed off one another.

(27:26):
So partnerships are the way to go.
And again, your experiential offerings,I think that's your biggest pivot.
Try to find those groups that maybetypically don't come to see you, those
demographics and what do they want?
Can you offer it through an experientialoffering where you don't have to try
to do major changes to your businessto attract them out to your part.

Brian Searl (27:45):
For sure you can.
We're gonna talk about that onOutwired later because you, I dunno
if you saw that, Scott, the wholelike, yeah, we got a Gen Z-er, outlaid
futuristic campground and all kindsof stuff we're gonna talk about later.
But so Shane and Eleonore first, whoeverwants to take it, just your perspective
from that pivot on the RV dealer side,because it's a different pivot in Canada
than it would be for Phil in America forhis organization and his dealers, right?

(28:08):
'cause he's gonna haveinventory down there.

Eleonore Hamm (28:12):
Yeah, they're gonna have they're gonna have inventory.
They might have, the Class B manufacturersthat manufacture in Canada, they'll have
a bit of an issue with that because ifthere's a 25% tariff on Canadian product,
we've got, a couple class B manufacturers,truck campers some of the smaller units.
So some of their dealers may experiencea bit of it, but then they'll have.

(28:32):
Potentially other suppliers that theycan choose potential inventory from.
I think from our side, the dealershopefully will be okay for the next few
months because they're bringing the unitsin a few areas for them to focus on.
As I've mentioned before, as,pre-owned, pre-owned products.
Trying to, we know that sort ofanecdotally, probably over 50% of the
pre-owned product is so sold privately.

(28:54):
To try to tap into that market tomaybe get consumers to work with the
dealerships trying to sell their units.
We have a great program at ourassociation's, a pre-owned certified
program that has like a 91 pointinspection checklist that dealers can
work through to make sure that that theunits are, it's for units 10 years and

(29:15):
newer, so that they're in good shape.
Obviously dealers will probably focusa bit more on the servicing side and
make sure that the service departmentsare working effectively if people
are not purchasing as much, but maybetrying to extend the life of their
life, the life of their own current rv.
And I think there's a few differenttactics that they'll put in play.
One thing I've learned in mymany years here is that the

(29:36):
dealers are incredibly resilient.

Brian Searl (29:39):
Yep.

Eleonore Hamm (29:39):
And resourceful.
And hopefully it's nota long lived situation.
But I don't know, Shane, if youhave any other insights, you know

Brian Searl (29:48):
Shane, I'd love to hear your take on just the, 'cause you, your
association is all the parts and all the

Shane Devenish (29:53):
And the manufacturer yeah.

Brian Searl (29:54):
Yeah.
So you have a differenttake I think on pivoting.

Shane Devenish (29:57):
Yeah.
So we're our members are 50%in the US, 50% in Canada.
So when there's tariffs no matter whatside of the border you're on, you're
gonna get, you're gonna get hit.
At current some of the Class Bmanufacturers are getting I guess
tariffs going down to the US to some oftheir dealers if it's outside of Kuzma.

(30:19):
And I think that depends on wherethey get their chassis from, if
I'm not mistaken if that's coveredunder the free trade agreement.
So some of our guys are getting hit nowand should the, more tariffs come on and
countermeasures, then all of our guys aregonna get hit, whether it's a manufacturer
or one of our parts suppliers.

Brian Searl (30:38):
So is there a way for them to pivot?
It feels like probably not.
You're in a rock in a hard place.

Shane Devenish (30:44):
And I don't really, I'm not up to speed on tariffs
from China and other places.
Yeah.
But that's the only other avenuethat I, they can order stuff from.
Yeah.
I don't think there's anyway to get out of this.
Yeah.
Unless it doesn't happenin the first place.

Brian Searl (30:59):
Let's hope that, yeah.
Phil.

Phil Ingrassia (31:03):
I would just say that the situation right now, and I know that
the US RV Manufacturers Association,RVIA is serving their members right
now to see, what the potential impacts.
Are on the US market because, overthe years Harvey manufacturers have
sourced different components anddifferent parts from different places.

(31:27):
And it's unclear what the impactwould have to be on the end use
product once it's assembled.
When you get all these componentscoming in from wherever they come
in from, whether it's Mexico, China,or they're domestically produced.
And over the last two years,manufacturers and dealers have worked
very hard to hit certain price pointsto make the unit more affordable.

(31:52):
And right now we just don't know exactly,what those, what the tariff situation will
have on the ultimate end use price which.
The manufacturers and dealers haveworked hard to get to certain levels
and to make it as affordable as theypossibly can in a higher interest rate

(32:12):
environment over the last several years.
And that's impacting,projections going into the year.
So for the US the latest projectionis probably for 2025, about
a 5% decrease in US retail.
Now, certainly there's a lot of dealerswho are gonna try to outperform that.

(32:33):
Yeah.
But that's where we are forthe US national outlook.
And again the uncertaintymakes it difficult to project.

Brian Searl (32:43):
Yeah.
Because, and then a lot of it isalso due to consumer sentiment and
whether they're actually interestedin buying in the first place.

Phil Ingrassia (32:48):
Exactly.
Consumer sentiment is a keything that we watch because.
If people are unsettled about theirjob prospects or the stock market or
gas prices or whatever it is, that'sall baked in to consumer sentiment.
And with a discretionary purchase, whetherit's a boat or an rv, that has a lot to do

(33:09):
with the health of the industry overall.

Brian Searl (33:12):
Okay.
Back to good things.
Let's talk about some emerging leaders.
You guys had a thing where youannounced some really cool emerging
leaders in the future who won'thave to deal with the problems you
guys are gonna solve for us, right?
So they're the lucky ones, but talkto us about the emerging leaders.
Who wants to tell us about that?

Phil Ingrassia (33:30):
I can jump in on that.
I was at the conference thatthey had in Phoenix earlier this
month, and that's a program thatRVIA initiated several years ago.
It felt some of the mid-level managersweren't getting to some of the
more important industry meetings,so they created this meeting that
they now have every march, and it'sa great opportunity to bring not

(33:51):
necessarily younger people, but newerpeople in from different companies.
There's campground people there, there'smanufacturers, there's suppliers, there's
finance companies, and there's dealers.
And it's just anopportunity to get together.
They do some team building exercisesand they just do a fantastic job
of creating a a cohesive communityof people in the RV business.

(34:16):
And a lot of business connectionsare made there as well.
So it's a it's a, it's verygreat event that that RVIA had
started a number of years ago.

Brian Searl (34:26):
And is that just the United States or is that
a blend of both countries or?

Phil Ingrassia (34:31):
No, there's Canadians there.
Okay.
We've met a number of peoplefrom overseas as well.
In fact, they had a delegationfrom Australia there this year.
And it's it's something thatpost covid, we lost some of the
events that we typically had.
So this is a, this is just anotherway to bring people together.

Brian Searl (34:49):
And why is it so important?
I know the answer to this question,or I think I do generally speaking,
but why is it so important to focuson these emerging leaders and make
sure that they're participated andthey feel heard and all those things?

Phil Ingrassia (35:02):
I think Eleonore and Shane would agree that, the RV
business is very relationship based.
And you can be in the industry three tofive years and you're still a newbie.
In some people's minds.
And I think anytime you can buildthe connections, the personal
connections within the industry,I think that's very important.
And there's a lot of long-termpeople in the business.

(35:24):
I'm one of 'em.
I've been working in thebusiness for more than 25 years.

Brian Searl (35:29):
No, come on Phil.
You're not that old.

Phil Ingrassia (35:31):
Everybody has the, that longevity and Shane and Eleonore
are long term association execs too,and they know that it's, it can be
difficult to break some of the wallsthat can come up if you're a new person.

Brian Searl (35:44):
How do you handle this?
Aaron, at the Outdoors Association,are there programs for emerging leaders
or young people who want to get moreinvolved and be heard and have new ideas?

Aaron Bannon (35:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
And we, it sounds like what you guyshave going on at the RV Industry
Association is a little bit more robust.
But a lot of folks who are engagingwith America Outdoors are, managers
in their first few years climbing,climbing the ladder at their
respective outfitting businesses.
We provide a virtual managers academyevery spring that has been really

(36:16):
solid and it's something we startedup since Covid, when it got it made,
started to make so much more senseto have these virtual experiences.
And we talk about risk and we talk aboutliability, and we talk about marketing and
budgeting and just give 'em some few basictools so that they can be a little bit
more prepared when they head into theirtheir new roles or their recent roles.
And, there's a lot of trainingthat happens at our conference
too, so it's programming intensive.

(36:39):
And we usually, over the course oftwo or three days, we'll have close
to 40 different sessions eitheron, on leadership, on marketing, on
operations, on risk management, onlegislative affairs and people come
for the community, but they also comefor those learning opportunities.

Brian Searl (36:54):
I think one of the most interesting things for me is when you
bring in people, and it doesn't matterif they're young or old but who are
new to an industry, whether it's theoutdoors or Harvey or campgrounds or
whatever else, they often have thosefresh perspectives that make you think of
something maybe you didn't in other ways.
Is there anything that sticksout in your mind that recently
somebody said that you're like,oh, I didn't think about that way?
That's nice to have that perspective.

Aaron Bannon (37:16):
That's interesting.
I do see a lot more, like businesses,especially businesses that are being
started by young people who are, justgot a permit and got some boats and
are trying to get something going orother ways that tend to be a little
more mission driven in their efforts.
Not only are they like trying to providea solid guest experiences, but they're,
trying, they're thinking about workers'rights, they're thinking about being good

(37:38):
stewards of the land and they're thinkingabout, providing these experiences
to folks from all walks of life.
Sometimes they'll be partneringwith urban programming to facilitate
an experience for folks who wouldnever otherwise, like boys and
girls clubs or something like that.
Folks who would never otherwisehave an opportunity to do something
like multi-day backpacking tripor a multi-day rafting trip.

(38:00):
That's some pretty cool programmingI've seen, and I, it seems like it's, it
takes a lot of work, but the effort thatfolks put into it does seem to produce
dividends and it's really admirable.

Brian Searl (38:12):
Eleonore, Phil, Shane, you have any examples you wanna share?
Anything you can think of?

Shane Devenish (38:17):
The only thing I want to say is it's good for the the
companies to bring forward their youngfolk to to go to that, that emerging
leader and the RVIA convention ormeeting they just had, it's I had a
the chance to go a couple years ago.
And the young people therewere very impressive and it

(38:37):
was great to talk to them.
They felt good.
They felt valued.
But all companies now have tocreate that next generation.
And by creating the opportunity to getnoticed, I, for the young people out
there, I think is a great initiative.

Phil Ingrassia (38:54):
Yeah.
And it's also for companiesthat are new to the industry.
It's an opportunity, especially like forRV adjacent type companies, whether it's
an IT company or perhaps a componentmanufacturer who's in the housing
business and wants to get into RV's.
It's an opportunity to meet establishedcompanies in the RV business

(39:15):
for these new entrants as well.

Brian Searl (39:20):
Alright.
Does let's switch topics again real quick.
I'm doing really good with mytransitions today, as you guys can tell.
So does anybody know from the RVindustry side of things, do you
guys have any knowledge that you cantalk about the Go RVing experiential
events that they unveiled recently?

Phil Ingrassia (39:36):
Yeah.
In the US Go RVing does a numberof events every year they've been
doing this, oh, I don't know,probably the past 10 years or so.
And what what those events are really, ifyou're known that marketing terminology
top of funnel, that means people who havevery little exposure to RV and camping.

(39:56):
And so where these events are typicallylocated are at for instance, they've
been the GoPro event in Denver.
Or they'll go to a state fair, like alarge state fair, like in Minneapolis.
And people see RVs and thenin an event that they weren't
typically expecting to see RVs.
Yeah.
And so they have an opportunityto tour those units and and work

(40:19):
with local dealers if they'reinterested in learning more.
So it's a real top of funnel type ofevent to expand the market for RVs.
And that's where go RVing is working,is at that top of the funnel.

Brian Searl (40:33):
That's super important because like you said, we're seeing like,
we're doing this on the campground side.
There are so many people who areconverting to glamping or who are
going from tenting to glamping and whojust have never been experienced or
exposed to that RV lifestyle, right?
And so there's ways that you, that wecan work toward in our marketing efforts
to say Hey, look, this is over here.
You never would'vesearched for this before.

(40:53):
You never would've thought about it, butyou've, but we got you into your, through
a GoPro event or through something else.
And now it's in the back of your mind.
It exists and maybe you're notbuying on day one, but it's there.
It's top of funnel, right?
And that's crucial for the future.

Phil Ingrassia (41:06):
Right.
A lot of these folks, and I've been toit, several of 'em, and you go in and
they've never even been inside an rv.
They have no clue.
And then now you've got a whole newgeneration, the Van Life people.
And the more out the people thatare more rustic campers who don't
really consider themselves r.
But the vehicle itself becomes a meansto experience whatever they want to do.

(41:30):
And, that's where, you're talking aboutthe people that want to really get out
there and do the stuff that that America'sOutdoors works on, and their errors and
their permit holders on public lands.

Brian Searl (41:42):
Is there, Eleonore, do you know if Go RVing in Canada
does attends any events here?

Eleonore Hamm (41:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
The budget it's a bit of a differentbudget and I know that, I don't
know what events they have.
I don't know if they've announced theirlist of events for this upcoming year.
Gorby Canada has their nextboard meeting on April 8th.
But typically they do probably aboutfour or five events throughout the year.
They always, in Vancouver,they do Craft Beer Week.
That's the one I know of,but I know they've gone.

Brian Searl (42:08):
That would get me to go RVing.

Eleonore Hamm (42:10):
They've gone to music festivals in the past.
They've been to some different, some ofthe different, outdoor shows as well.
And it's exactly what Phil said.
It's to showcase an RV to talk to peoplethat wouldn't necessarily think of
RVing or even, or have that idea to usetheir RV for the activity that they're
going to be doing, whether it be, arock climbing or outdoor adventure.

(42:33):
And so hopefully we'll get maybe on thenext show I'll have the list of events
that they're participating in this year.
But definitely something that isone of the marketing strategies
that, that we use as well.

Brian Searl (42:44):
I'm counting on you having that list 'cause it's like once every
three years that I pre-prep and bringthings to the show to talk about.
So then I need you, I'mgonna have Lisa look this up.
We'll close the show with this maybe,and then some final thoughts of course.
But Lisa, will you Google this?
I've got it on my phone.
But pebble to showcase AI poweredRV innovation at Nvidia GTC 2025.

(43:06):
It's a medium article that I found,but if you can find any article
about it, we can just screen share.
Have, first of all, has anybodyheard about this on this call?
Greg?
Greg, you meant maybe you have?
Or just

Greg Emmert (43:16):
I know about Pebble.
I have been followingthem for quite some time.
It is an absolutely beautiful RVand a really interesting concept
being essentially a massive batterybank on wheels that also doubles as
an RV can park itself via an app.
You can spin it in acircle in your driveway.
Really cool.
And I did happen to catch somethingabout this, but no, I don't know a

(43:37):
bunch about the the Nvidia integrations.

Brian Searl (43:40):
Neither do I.
We're about to learn together real quick.
It looks like there's not thatmany pictures here in this
article that we're showcasing,but there's one at the top there.
It says that all electric Pebble flowleverages the Nvidia Drive AGX Orin.
Man, they know how toname stuff, don't they?
To redefine intelligent travel.
So let's see if we can find out.
So Pebble is a California basedstartup, defining a new way to work,

(44:02):
live, and explore from anywhere.
Then this is Nvidia, GTC.
That happened, I think last week March7th through the 17th through the 21st.
It says, by harnessing real timeautomotive grade AI processing
Pebble is eliminating the traditionalhassles of RV-ing, making, hitching,
towing and set up effortless.

Greg Emmert (44:21):
Yep.

Brian Searl (44:21):
It says the startups flagship all electric trailers designed
to bring a new level of intelligence.
Magic hitch enables fully automatedhitching, allowing the trailer to
self align and connect to the towvehicle with the push of a button.
Yes, I'll take that.
Easy Tow with active tow assistoptimizes energy efficiency and driving
dynamics in real time, adjustingto road conditions and terrain to

(44:45):
enhance safety and ease of travel.
Whether towing with gas or electric,it reduces strain and maximizes range.
Yeah.
And remote control allows users tomaneuver the trailer with position.
That would be wonderful.
Can you imagine the campgroundowners who'd be like, yes, I want
all my campers maneuvering theirtrailers with remote controls 'cause
they already can't drive them.

Greg Emmert (45:05):
They use the remote.
But it ruins that Friday night at thecampground for the folks that show
up early enough to get a beer andthen wait to watch everyone back in.
Their entertainment value is gone.

Brian Searl (45:16):
That's an experiential event for the campground though.
You could market that ifyou knew it was coming.

Greg Emmert (45:21):
It is pretty sweet.
You can spin it 360 in place too, becauseeach side has its own motors, so it
extends your vehicle's range, whethergas or electric by actually pushing.
A little bit, right?
So you're not fully towing it,it's actually adding some thrust.
So it extends the rangeof your tow vehicle.
But then when you get to whereyou're going, you can put the little
wheel under the tongue and you canspin it 360 degrees if you need to.

(45:45):
You can back it up, pull it forward.
It's amazing.
And the interior is absolutely asbeautiful and innovative as the exterior.
It transforms from officespace to living space.
It's I've been following it for awhile and poking them online, hoping
they'll just send me a prototype model.
So if you're listening,

Phil Ingrassia (46:03):
founded that or Tesla, former Tesla execs.
And it's it's quite a technologicalmarvle, but I would advise anybody
thinking about one to start saving now.

Greg Emmert (46:13):
Yes.

Brian Searl (46:14):
You can turn off the screen here.
Yeah.
It says this one is that,so this is the Pebble Flow.
It's built for energy independence,45 kilowatt LFP Battery.
Integrated 1.1
kilowatts of rooftop solar providesseven days of off grade living.

Greg Emmert (46:28):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (46:29):
Backup power supply capable of powering a home when needed.
I don't know how big of a home, but sure.
Okay.

Greg Emmert (46:36):
It's about 140K, right?
I think so.

Brian Searl (46:38):
The pebble flow starts at $109,500.

Greg Emmert (46:42):
Okay.

Brian Searl (46:42):
For an upgrade option to the magic pack for $135,500.
So 1355K for the things that we'reactually talking about and care
about, or at least geeks like me do.
But again, that's, this is a way to bring,just like we were talking about top of
funnel Phil, this is a way to bring peoplewho are tech, social media, computer
Gen Z into the realm of RVing, right?

Phil Ingrassia (47:05):
Yeah, no the whole electric vehicle and electric rv, or
e rv, whatever you wanna call it, willcertainly appeal to people that we may
have never, ever seen in an RV dealershipbefore or in the industry before.
And it just shows you that there's alwaysinnovation going on in the RV business.

Brian Searl (47:23):
Yeah, I'm excited to see it.
Will we, do you think we'll see, do we seeor will we see Pebble on RV dealers lots.

Phil Ingrassia (47:30):
Right now they're direct to consumers, my understanding.
But, and I've talked to a number of thesestartups that are building E-RVs and
I've told 'em, if you want to scale up.

Brian Searl (47:39):
This is the way to do it.

Phil Ingrassia (47:40):
Leadership model is the best way to do that.
However, the Tesla model is direct toconsumer with company owned stores.
So we'll have to see where,which route they go to.
But many of the ones that startedas direct to consumer are now
bringing dealers on for sure.

Brian Searl (47:57):
The niche of the dealership is the answer in the future.
Coming from an outside, like not everybodyhas the billions to start their own
dealer network like Elon does, right?

Phil Ingrassia (48:06):
Correct.

Brian Searl (48:06):
So yeah.

Greg Emmert (48:08):
The other best way to get them out is to send one to Greg.
My address is
call me, call.

Phil Ingrassia (48:16):
Just drop ship it.

Greg Emmert (48:18):
Got it all set.
I'll take care of it.

Brian Searl (48:20):
All right.
Any final thoughts, guyson the conversation?
Show anything?
We'll start with Eleonore.
She's in the top rightcorner of my screen.

Eleonore Hamm (48:27):
No I think that's good.
Thank you very much for the opportunity.

Brian Searl (48:31):
Thanks for being here.
We couldn't do the show withoutyou guys' insight and commentary
and all that kind of stuff becausenobody wants to listen to me.
Greg.

Greg Emmert (48:38):
Yeah.
Only final thought I have is I waslistening to everybody talk about the sort
of like the generational handoff, right?
Essentially is what you guyswere getting at before, like
that next generation of leaders.
Whether you own a single campgroundor you own a franchise, or you're
part of O High and the greateroutdoor hospitality industry.
And there are a lot of places that arealready leaning into this, but I don't

(48:59):
see enough individual owners or franchiseowners or small maybe small system owners
looking at developing their next leaders,their next generation, so to speak.
That handoff, it's really important.
It's easy to say.
It's not so easy to do.
Everybody talks about how do wetap that, that Gen Z audience.
Hire some Gen Z people andtrain them to be your leaders

(49:21):
and listen to their insights.

Brian Searl (49:23):
No, all the Gen Z people are lazy.
They're all on social media, Greg.

Greg Emmert (49:26):
Yes, of course.
As are the millennials.
We still, I still hear peopletalk about millennials.
He seeing millennials are stillliving in people's basements.
Like Brian that's, I am interestin his parents' basement.

Brian Searl (49:35):
Yeah.
I'm in my basement.

Greg Emmert (49:36):
He's a lazy millennial.
Hire those people, they haveinsight as to their tap their brains
and they can lead you to that.
And then you have a leader readyto take you into the next phase
of whatever that business is.
'cause it's changingreally fast really fast.
So lean into that.
That's my final thought there.
Thank you.

Brian Searl (49:53):
That's a really fast thing coming off the walking
robots we're gonna look at later.
Yeah.
All right.
Aaron, final thoughts?

Aaron Bannon (50:01):
Yeah, sure.
Phil and I worked together on abill that passed Congress in late
December called the Explore Act.
And that was an achievement by the way.
And thanks Phil, and thanks to everybodyoutdoor recreation round table and
beyond to help make that thing happen.
It's a big deal for us.
There's a number of provisionsin there called the simplifying
outdoor access for recreation.

(50:21):
And those provisions relatedirectly to permitting, right?
And one of the real thrusts of thatwas to make it more achievable.
Not only if you have an operation and youwanna grow it, and you wanna be able to
interface with the agency to change theface of your permit to do that, but it
lowers the threshold for new operators.
If you're in an area where you seerecreation potential, whether you wanna

(50:42):
try to pursue a public a public landexperience that you would provide or
you have some potential in someonethat you could promote to do that.
I think the, yeah, the landscape has notbeen this good for quite a long time for
startups who wanna try to go that way.
Yeah, I hope to see a lot of partnershipsas Greg mentioned earlier bubbling up from

(51:02):
the outcome as they implement that bill.
And I look forward to checkingout a lot of your campgrounds.
I'm poking around this country in my work.
And where can they learn more aboutthe American Outdoors Association?
Oh, thanks.
They can definitely check out ourwebsite, America outdoors.org,
so no n in the middle,just so people catch that.
And there you can go and find a directoryof all of our outfitter members.

(51:23):
You can find a directory of suppliers.
It's built a little bit for.
The casual browser and built a littlebit for the outfitter owner too.
But so that's a great way to see a littlebit about the kind of work that we do
and a lot of the advocacy that we do forour membership and a lot that our members
do to try to provide their experiencesto folks coming from around the world.

Brian Searl (51:43):
Awesome.
Thank you for being hereand I appreciate it.

Aaron Bannon (51:45):
It's an honor.

Brian Searl (51:46):
Shane, any final thoughts?

Shane Devenish (51:48):
Yeah, it's you can see our new logo there CRV
eight's 50th anniversary this year.
So we're gonna be doing somespecial things throughout the year.
And

Brian Searl (51:57):
What do the leaves symbolize?
You're gonna mention your logo, I needto know what the little leaves symbolize.

Shane Devenish (52:01):
Those are, I think they look like wheat.

Brian Searl (52:04):
But you,

Shane Devenish (52:04):
I don't know.
It's before my time, Brian.

Brian Searl (52:06):
Oh, okay.
All right.

Shane Devenish (52:07):
But check out our social media and our website for updates.
We're doing a lot of neat stuff this year.

Brian Searl (52:12):
Awesome.
Thank you, Shane.
Appreciate it.
And Phil.

Phil Ingrassia (52:15):
Just, I'm glad to see it's warming up and we're
getting ready for a big season.
Sure, certainly there's some challenges,but I always like to think that
the basic reason people want to gooutside is never gonna leave us.
And we just all need to be preparedto, to serve our customers and get
ready for a big spring and summer.

Brian Searl (52:35):
Awesome.
Eleonore, I do wanna give youone more chance for a second.
Can you just tell them wherethey can find that petition to?

Eleonore Hamm (52:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
On our website, rvda, www.rvda.ca
and a look at the top, there's alink for advocacy and the advocacy
toolkit and all the information willbe in there, including the links
to the government consultation.

Brian Searl (52:55):
And who's eligible to fill that out.

Eleonore Hamm (52:57):
The consultation, any Canadian whether it be an organization,
a business, an individual anybody canput it's a comment period on the tariffs.
We do have specific tariff codes thatwe're looking for exemptions, but
really any comment anybody can comment.

Brian Searl (53:13):
The, those codes are available on the website or.

Eleonore Hamm (53:16):
Yeah.
And if they're not, theycan email me at or email our
association at info, [e-mail].
We've got a bit of a template with thedifferent RV they're called HS codes.
The harmonized codesfor for import at CBSA.

Brian Searl (53:33):
Awesome.
Thank you for being here, Eleonore.
Appreciate it.
Thank you guys for joining us foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
We'll see you Greg and I'll seeyou in about 47, 57 minutes,
sorry, 57 minutes on Outwired.
We're gonna talk about Gen Z.
We're gonna talk about how to designthis crazy campground that just starts
from a scratch that's gonna appeal tohesitant travelers, also Gen Z, and then

(53:53):
maybe even Gen Z when they're campingwith their robots in a few years.
So we'll have some fun talking about that.
And then we're gonna talk about stateparks too a little bit about state
parks and the trend toward maybepeople staying there a little bit more
than they have in the past whetherthat's budget or something else.
So looking forward to that discussion.
Other than that, we'll see you guys onnext week's episode of MC Fireside Chats.
Really appreciate you joining us.
Take care.

Shane Devenish (54:13):
See you everybody.

Greg Emmert (54:14):
Bye-bye.

Phil Ingrassia (54:15):
Bye.

Aaron Bannon (54:15):
Thank you.