MC Fireside Chats - May 7th, 2025

In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl led a comprehensive discussion on the evolving landscape of the outdoor hospitality and recreation industry. The episode featured recurring guests, industry experts who appear regularly on the show, and special guests who brought specific insights to the conversation. Recurring guests Scott Bahr, Simon Neal, and Mark Koep offered their perspectives on current trends and challenges. Mark Koep, in particular, focused on the growing influence of Artificial Intelligence (AI) and its implications for marketing strategies within the industry. He argued that traditional methods, such as relying heavily on Google search, may become less effective as AI-driven search results gain prominence. Brian Searl expanded on this point, noting the increasing sophistication of AI and its capacity to generate synthetic data, which could further disrupt established online business models. The guests emphasized the importance of campground owners and operators staying informed about AI and adapting their strategies to remain competitive. The discussion then shifted to the physical aspects of campgrounds, with Scott Bahr raising questions about the trend towards developing very large RV parks. He expressed concern about their long-term sustainability and whether they might become obsolete like shopping malls. This sparked a broader conversation about the ideal size and design of campgrounds, with panelists weighing the benefits of large-scale operations against the appeal of more intimate, niche-focused experiences. Mary Arlington, a special guest with extensive experience in the campground industry, shared her insights on this topic. She acknowledged the existence of very large parks but emphasized that many successful campgrounds focus on creating a strong sense of community and catering to specific customer needs. Another special guest, Brian Linton, contributed to the discussion by providing a perspective from the glamping sector. He explained that glamping sites, which often involve more luxurious accommodations than traditional camping, can be economically viable even with a smaller number of sites. Linton also highlighted the importance of storytelling and creating engaging content to attract guests. Simon Neal, a recurring guest from Europe, offered a different viewpoint, describing the European campground market and its unique characteristics. He noted the prevalence of seasonal travel and the trend towards investing in high-quality amenities to enhance the guest experience. Neal also discussed the concept of organizing campgrounds into distinct “neighborhoods” to cater to diverse preferences. The episode also explored ancillary revenue streams for campgrounds, such as pet-related services. Guests shared ideas for offering pet amenities and products to enhance the customer experience and generate additional income. Furthermore, the panelists considered the potential impact of emerging technologies like VR and AR on the outdoor hospitality industry. While acknowledging that these technologies are unlikely to replace traditional camping experiences, they discussed their potential for marketing and attracting new customers. Finally, Mary Arlington took the opportunity to introduce “Rivers and Rockies,” a new association serving campground owners in several states. She explained its mission to provide localized support and address the specific needs of park owners in the region. Throughout the episode, host Brian Searl guided the discussion and encouraged the guests to share their expertise and insights. The conversation provided valuable information and perspectives for campground owners, operators, and anyone interested in the future of the outdoor hospitality industry.

Episode Transcript

Brian Searl (00:45):
Episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks.
Super excited to behere with you as always.
First episode of the month, typically.
So we're talking abouttrends and insights.
We've got Scott Bahr here fromCarin Consulting Group, who is
our wizard of trends and insights.
We've got Simon Neal here fromCamp Map over in Europe who will
share some interesting stuffwith us, as he always does.

(01:07):
Miguel's missing today, missing in action.
So hopefully he'll pop in.
Mark Koep's here, who has a lot of trendsand data and insights as always, too.
And then we got two special guests.
We got Brian Linton from LintonHospitality, who's gonna talk
a little bit about his company.
And we've got Mary Arlington,who's the jack of all trades.
Wizard of All Things, starts something newevery two or three days, Mary, but sticks
with a couple of the really good ones.
So we're gonna talk about Rivers& Rockies' Coalition and some of the

(01:30):
great stuff she has going on there.
And then we're missing Rafael.
He's travel, he's tra rafael'stra you gotta yell at him, Scott.
Rafael's traveling to the Florida Show.
He's I can't make it.
So you need to tell him likeyou made it to the show.

Scott Bahr (01:41):
I'm sitting here in my hotel room and he couldn't, oh my, yeah.
Okay.
I'm on it.

Brian Searl (01:45):
He couldn't be bothered to do that for us, so

Scott Bahr (01:47):
I'm on it.

Brian Searl (01:47):
He can buy you a whiskey or something, but yeah.
Okay.
So typically how we normally startthe show, I just want to toss it
to our recurring guest is Scott,Simon , Mark, is there anything that
you guys feel has come across yourdesk since the last time we were able
to get together here that you feel isimportant for us to talk about, cover?
Anything you wanna bring up?

Mark Koep (02:06):
Yeah I'll jump in, Brian.
I was recently at the West Coast event,the California show or the West Coast
event, and then also at the Texas event.
And in both sessions I did there,I spoke about AI and what was
interesting about it is in Californiaasked the question of the audience.
How many of you.

Brian Searl (02:22):
I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
I don't mean to interruptyou, but what's AI?

Mark Koep (02:24):
Yeah, exactly.
I'll get into that.
Let me get into that, Brian.
At the California show, I asked howmany people are using AI and about a
third of the audience raised their hand.
Three weeks later in Texas, I askedthat same question about 95% of
the audience raise their hands.
To the question of what is AI?
There's different genera, mostpeople it's Chat GPT, right?
They're using large languagemodels and so forth.

(02:45):
And obviously there's a lot moredepth that can go into that.
But
much like Brian's model and Brian,you and I talk behind the scenes.
You and I are really well aligned on theoverall thinking, which is most people
are not prepared for what's happeningright now in real time in the world.
And my goal in these presentations, andMary was there she can attest this, my
goal is honestly to scare the crap outof the audience about what was coming

(03:05):
with a simple goal of them walking outtathat meeting going, I need to learn more
about this and actually be proactivein my efforts around the use of AI, not
only from a personal level, but from aprofessional level and how it's gonna
impact the overall economy in the world.
So just wanna share that, Brian I giveyou full credit 'cause you're way ahead
of the curve on this and obviously wayadvanced, but it is changing and people
are starting to recognize that it's here.

(03:27):
Just moving really fast.

Brian Searl (03:29):
So two things.
Do you think one, that it's movingthat fast California to Texas span
of a week or two, or do you thinkthat people from California stalked
you and followed you to Texas?
And that's why itincreased so dramatically?
That's my opening first question.
But then number two is I'mcurious how you scare them.
I'm just fascinated by like how doyou what's your version of scare?
Because mine's probably different.

Mark Koep (03:49):
Yeah, yours is probably different.
Yours is, I guarantee you yoursis different, just knowing you.
So my way to scare is the simplestatement and it's a bold statement, but
I don't think it's actually that bold.
I'll simply preface that, theprimary advertising channel you have
available to you is Google search.
And I just want y'all to knowthat Google search is dead and in
six months that's gonna pan out.
And that usually creates the disconnectin their minds where they're like, wait

(04:12):
a second, how can Google search be dead?
And then you just go into the logicabout how Google's moved results down.
They have AI results at thetop and you know how everything
is changing in that regard.
And so it gets people to realize thattheir simple marketing that they've
been doing is no longer gonna work.
They actually have to hitpeople in various channels.
It's actually fragmenting again, right?

(04:33):
It came tight where it wasGoogle and Facebook and now we're
fragmenting to different channels.
And just that in and of itself is enoughto where people wake up to the idea.
And then the thing I'll do on stage isI'll pull up Chat GPT and go to the voice
interface, right, with the Chat GPT.
'cause most of the people can seetheir skepticism in the audience
as you're talking about it.
And then I'll have that conversation withAI on my phone and use the microphone

(04:56):
to show them how powerful that tool is.
And the net result is, I'mvalidating what I'm saying.
'cause once they realize that thosetools are available and you can do
that, then it's the recognition thatthis guy's not just blowing smoke.
He's telling you the truth, thatthe world is changing, the entire
digital landscape is changing.
And the other thing that I say veryhonestly, and I think Brian, you
may or may not agree with this, eventhe best experts don't know what the

(05:19):
world looks like a year from now.
We just know that it's changing fast.

Brian Searl (05:23):
Yeah, for sure.
I like, I typicallysay three years, right?
But yeah, it's, it's gonnakeep exponentially speeding up.
So I agree with that statement.
It's interesting, like you and I bothdo marketing and how, like you have
to get people's attention sometimes.
I don't think either of us reallybelieves that Google's gonna be
completely dead in six months.
But also that's the wayyou get people's attention.
You can be like, Google'sslowing down just a little bit.

(05:44):
Hopefully you're watching mypresentation about how it is.
They're not gonna payattention to you then.
But yeah, I don't know if you read thelatest stats and we don't wanna spend
too much time on this in the show, butthere was Google said there's one and
a half billion users, and I don't know,they define users of AI overviews.
Which is the real kind of threat inGoogle more than anything, is that your
site is ranked differently and citeddifferently in those AI overviews.

(06:05):
And it's citing deeper content like blogpart blogs, articles, stuff like that.
There's 650 million monthly users of ChatGPT already there are 350 million monthly
users of Google Gemini that came outin their monopoly to trial or whatever.
And I want to say last week, but like itwas a couple weeks ago, I saw this stat
within the last seven days of that statbeing published, there were a billion

(06:27):
searches on Chat GPT, like searchesof the internet, not prompts in one.

Mary Arlington (06:32):
That was Mark.

Mark Koep (06:33):
Yeah.
One, yeah, that was medoing all those prompts.
Yeah.
No, what I find just in my own usageof the tools that over the last two
weeks, my go-to source is actuallyChat GPT and Gemini, depending upon
which one I'm logged into at thetime to begin my deeper research.
Now I may go to websites and soforth for even deeper, but I'm
relying heavily upon these AI tools.
I know I've integrated 'em in all ofour processes here in our own business.

(06:56):
And the reality is there's longertail conversation about that.
Because and I actually this is aquestion for you Brian, 'cause I
know you've gone deeper on this.
As you look at it, the real questionbecomes if the AI models are essentially
scraping the web for their information andthey're providing you a summation of that
information, they're basically destroyingthe business models of a large portion of
the web businesses out there that rely on

Brian Searl (07:17):
Oh yes, for sure.

Mark Koep (07:17):
Eyeballs.
So as those websites go outta business,where does AI get its information?
And in its results.
And that's a big question on themarketing side of how do I get ranked
in these chatbots and everything else.
So I'm interested in your.

Brian Searl (07:29):
That's two things, right?
And again I don't wanna spendtoo much of the show on this,
but it's a good conversation.
Like we need to have it.
I just I want to make sure we get to ourguests and you're not distracting me,
like I'm distracting myself to be clear.
I'm not blaming you.
But there, there's twodifferent things with ai, right?
There's first of all, it alreadyhas started creating its own
synthetic data, is the answer.
It's just I don't wanna say just'cause that's the wrong word, but
it's just as it has the same amountor greater amount of an ability to

(07:53):
create new text and especially thesenew thinking models, new thoughts than
as human beings currently do, right?
Most human beings.
And so it can create they've beendoing this for a couple years.
They've used it to train someof the new models, like on syn,
they call it synthetic data.
So that's number one.
Number two is we have no idea howto get the stuff in like we do.

(08:14):
We know a little bit of thingsright, on how to get it ranked,
but mostly, and we've talked aboutthis on Outwired too with Scott.
Mostly it's, brand like theimportance of, back links, but also
the conversation around your brand.
So press releases, mentions of socialmedia that are not on your page.
Just like reputation right,is an easier way to say it.
Brand and backlinksare gonna be important.

(08:36):
And then obviously what's on yourwebsite, like not just keywords, but
the structure and the schema markup.
And if you don't know what those wordsare, go ask your website developer.
Those things are even moreimportant than the future too.
But that's not really scaring 'em though.
Like you're just it'simportant you're waking 'em up.
You probably are scaring them,but I ended up British Columbia.
I was speaking to their association ona webinar maybe a month ago, and I ended

(08:58):
that thing with I asked Joss, I was like,do you want me to scare them real quick?
And he's like, all right, sure.
Not knowing what I was gonna say.
He probably regrets it, but I was like,like we're headed toward like you're
seeing this already, like the US andChina are battling for supremacy in AI.
Where you're headed to is one day,neither one of them probably wanna do
this right now or even would considerever doing this, but at some point,

(09:21):
one general is gonna be like, I'm gonnagive the AI control of my missiles.
And then unless the other general does thesame thing, he's gonna get obliterated.
And that's where we're like, that'sthe end game where we're going to
whatever country gets it first.
I'm not saying it's gonna bemissiles and Terminator and all that
stuff, but whatever country getsit first, that's why we're, that's

(09:42):
why it's never gonna slow down.
That's why Trump won't let it slow down.
Xi won't let it slow down justbecause they need to be first.
So that's the scary end game.
If you wanna scare 'em next time, Mark.

Mark Koep (09:55):
I don't go that deep.

Mary Arlington (09:56):
I wanna see how you're gonna transition from obliteration
of the planets to campground.

Brian Searl (10:03):
Yeah, I don't think that it's going to actually obliterate the
planet to be clear, but like generally Iuse it as like Mark says, Google is dead.
I use it as a way to get their attentionbecause that is why the best case
scenario for the world is that we slowthis thing down and understand what
it is and, legislate it and protectjobs to a certain extent from it.
And however we can, right?

(10:24):
But we're not going to do that because allthe companies are racing each other and
all the governments are racing each other.
And the first one that gets to what theycall super intelligence is literally
gonna be able to tell the superintelligence turn off the United States.
So that's why they're all racing.
It sounds crazy.
But anyway, let's talkabout something else fun.
So see how you sucked medown that rabbit hole Mark.

Mark Koep (10:46):
No problem.
Glad to do it.

Brian Searl (10:48):
All right.
Anyway, like AI is really good andyou should study it and it's gonna
be great for your campgrounds.
But you have to pay attention tohow fast it's moving, mark said.
Anybody else have anything on their plate?
Scott or Simon?

Scott Bahr (10:58):
The only thing I would say is just recently, it seems like
I've had several conversations aboutcampground size, like number of sites.
And I was talking to someone earliertoday about there's a campground that's
in the works that's gonna have 3000 sites.

Brian Searl (11:20):
And is it in Myrtle Beach or somewhere else?

Scott Bahr (11:22):
I was like, my response to that was a question is will
these like gigantic RV parks andcampgrounds become like the malls

Brian Searl (11:36):
Yeah.

Scott Bahr (11:36):
Are in 10 years, will they be abandoned and deserted?
My personal opinion is that's morelikely to happen than the idea that we're
gonna be overrun with gigantic parks.
I just, I don't know.
I just don't think that's gonna happen.
And I feel like these huge parks is, theirshelf life is limited, and I would be open

(12:01):
to any sort of contrary opinions on that.
And by the way, if you wanna scare someoneat a lower level, just do an AI search
on trip planning to their area and seewhether or not their Campground shows up.
That's a little bit morerealistic in terms of

Brian Searl (12:15):
Yeah, that's what Mark's doing, I think.
Yeah.
That's what Mark's doing.

Mark Koep (12:17):
Yeah, actually I had a conversation with an owner in Texas and
he was like he was ask, he was goingaround asking multiple people on their
Chat GPT to do the same query, and itwas driving him nuts because the results
were different under everybody's device.
Yep.
And so he was like, wait a secondI'm the best one and I'm not.
It was that whole conversation.
It is actually the old school SEOconversation, just with a new tool
that's using it is how come I'm notnumber one for that search result?

Scott Bahr (12:40):
Yep.

Brian Searl (12:40):
Yeah.

Mark Koep (12:40):
Scott, it's funny you mentioned the size of sites.
'cause I was actually thinking this, justthis last week because a lot of investors,
like the investment groups like buyingparks that are 200 sites or more, right?
They can justify the expenses so forth,but yet when you go into those 200 or site
more parks, they're usually 60% occupied.
So 120 sites are filled.
You don't.
Would it be more efficient to run ahundred site or a 90 site park with larger

(13:05):
sites that you're charging more for soyou're making more off that, that piece
of land that you have the property on.
It was just an interestingconversation I was having in my head.
So it's funny that you mentionedthat about the 3000 site park.
All I can say is a 3000 site park.
As long as they provide the amenities thatpeople want in that area, it'll do fine.
But who knows what it looks like longterm if those amenities degradate and

(13:26):
they don't take care of 'em or whatnot.

Brian Searl (13:27):
It's such a longer conversation that we don't have
time to have fully on this show.
And then we're gonna actually explorea little bit of this on Outwired later
about talking about niching down yourmarketing and who to target and who
to speak to and should you ignore GenZ or embrace Gen Z or all the things.
But when you talk about those 3000site parks, like they work in Myrtle
Beach, obviously there's a clearuse case for a market like that's
massive, where it's gonna work.

(13:49):
But yeah, I'm of the mindset, like you,like I don't know that the 3000 site
park works anywhere and it doesn't,and I know you're not saying that
Mark, but like who are the people?
What do they want?
And then could you use that even at the240 or 60 site park that you use as an
example can you use that site to buildmore amenities or make more revenue or
put a restaurant or have day passes tosomething, or an arcade or a bowling

(14:10):
alley, or, something that's revenuegenerating versus just sitting empty
because you're 60 or 70% occupied.
'cause let's be honest, I don't thinkthat the RV industry is suddenly
gonna skyrocket in the next fiveyears and be able to double the cap.
There's too much inventory coming online.
And we'll talk about that on theshow, but like we have before, but
there's just, there has to be adifference maker for your property.

(14:31):
What's your story?
What's your experience?
What's your difference?
And there are people whowill line up for that.
What Scott described as the mallexperience, but there are a whole
lot more people who will line up fora niche experience tailored to their
generation or preferences, or if they'rean adventure seeker or a solo traveler
or a car camper or whatever, right?
And so if you can niche down intosome of those that make sense for the

(14:52):
market that you're in, then you'llhave a whole lot easier time with 200
or 3000 or whatever you're building.
You generally agree with that Mark?
Or as a market?

Mark Koep (15:00):
Yes, I agree with that completely.
Yep.

Scott Bahr (15:02):
Yeah it's kinda like how we went from all the malls being abandoned
to people wanting a more intimateexperience in the downtown area with
boutique shops and restaurants and so on.
It's like that.
I think the desire for that hasmore staying power than some sort of
much more generic type of experience.
And, again, going back to the idea ofwhy people want some kind of outdoor

(15:28):
hospitality experience it to me.
It seems like they don't want overall.
I think there will be a movement awayfrom the gigantic mini city places and
to a much more intimate personalized,hospitality based experience.

Brian Searl (15:46):
I have a new Jessica, you can drag him up there when
he's talking so they don't have tolook at my ugly face all the time.
I have a new person running theshow for me, so that's why you
saw the intro start and stop.
'cause she was like, yeah, this intro'sgood, and she wanted to see it twice.
That's the story behind it.
But anyway yeah you just have tofigure out who your people are.
Is really all it is.
And I think a lot of people,especially in this boom we saw after

(16:07):
Covid and I'd love to hear yourtake too, Mary on this working with
so many associations and parks.
I don't know how much build out therewas in, in your areas versus like Texas
or something, but there's just bit,there was so much rapid thought about
buy, buy, buy, buy, build, build, build.
And everybody did the same, someworse than others, but generally
following the same blueprint.

(16:28):
And that blueprint was great forand Mary certainly has way more
education in this aspect, right?
But for the boomers who've traditionallybeen the RV type guest than it does
for the future and it may ebb andblow, like nobody's saying that's not
a good, can't be a good business model.
But is it as good as itwas 10, 15, 20 years ago?
I dunno.
You tell us, Mary.

(16:48):
Introduce yourself first, please.

Mary Arlington (16:50):
Oh boy.
When I was a park owner, theboomers were definitely my audience.
But I've sold long enoughago that society has changed.
Back when I was an owner though,there were parks already in the
country that had thousands ofsites, and they did very well.
They weren't around every corner, butthey did very well in their niche.

(17:12):
They often were for long stays.
They created their community.
Maybe they were in the north orthe south and they were populated
for some months of the year.
That was all great and they did very well.
But there has been an enormousshift across the country,
bringing in many more of those.
I know Colorado had an enormous boomthrough the past six, seven years and and

(17:35):
quite a few parks, I'd say about eightyears ago, started buying up neighboring
land and expanding that they could.
But the vast majority of my parksI cater to the privately owned
campgrounds and RV parks andresorts and glamping and all that.
Whatever outdoor lodging is to you,that's what we try to cater to.

(17:57):
And I would say that the vastmajority of them remain smaller.
I'm gonna say.

Brian Searl (18:04):
Yeah.

Mary Arlington (18:06):
A hundred and twenty five, a hundred fifty sites, and fewer.
But I still have some parks thathave 8, 10, 12, 15 sites, and
they're pleased with what they have.
And maybe they're landlocked.
I know one of 'em is righton the side of a canyon.
Without obliterating a mountain,they can't grow at all.
So they find their niche, they market totheir audience, they satisfy those people.

(18:30):
And if what you're looking for has2000 sites and loads of amenities,
then there are those in the areathat they can go to instead.

Brian Searl (18:40):
Yeah, there's no wrong way to do it until you
run into the accounting investoraccountability point of your journey.
But before that like you canreally build anything you want.
And if you're happy with the eightto 10 sites, then that's great.
If you're happy with the 50 toa hundred, that's great too.
But it's interesting to me that weoften hear from so many people that it's
a math problem and I understand thatfrom an investment standpoint, right?
On paper it's okay, we can have3000 sites earning income of X site.

(19:04):
We make a whole lot more money.
But then they don't study themarket and recognize whether
there's 3000 people there.
But also if you look at people like Brian,who's a guest on our show, and we'll talk
to him about his company in a second.
It's not even a number of sites problem.
It's a, and maybe you can correctme if I'm wrong, 'cause you're
obviously the expert, Brian.
But it is a math problem, but it'snot necessarily a quantity problem

(19:25):
to get to the math you want.
Is that fair, Brian?

Brian Linton (19:28):
For sure.
Yeah.
We're in the boutique glamping space.
So Ferncrest is purposely intimateand small and obviously the economics
of glamping versus RV are primitive.
Camping is different.
So that, our operators, 'cause we havea franchise system, so Ferncrest, we
started it a few years ago, opened upthe home base location in Pennsylvania.
It's 25 site glamping destination withgeodesic domes and some wall tents

(19:53):
really family focused, targeting themillennial, the millennial young family.
And with two to $300 ADRs, youcan have a really sustainable two.
Business with those fewer sites.
If I'm an RV park operator, Mary it'dbe tough for me to justify at least,
economics of covering expenses and payingemployees and still taking home money if
I only had 18, 10 to 20 or 25 RV sites.

(20:16):
But with glamping, you can do quitewell with a smaller assortment.
There's plenty of glamping destinationsout there with four sites, right?
A lot of people blur thelines in glamping as well.
And, landscape resorts allof a sudden become glamping.
And I'm more on the glamping is stillmore of a camping experience and
the hard sided like resort is moreoutdoor hospitality in a broader sense.

(20:38):
To each his own, when theydefine what glamping is.

Brian Searl (20:41):
Yeah.
Glamping can be anything you want, right?
And I think, yeah, I think I likeit, and it's part of the appeal
to me of the word glamping.
Like we were talking a few weeks ago tothe RV industry, people who were on the
show and we were exploring I brieflybrought up like flying cars and I was
like, listen, like recreational vehicle,boy, that can be anything in the future.
If you guys really wantedto expand the demographic of

(21:02):
what, that could be anything.
So I like the appeal ofbeing able to create your own
thing, do whatever you want.
Like obviously pay attention to themoney and the math and all those things
that are important to your market, toyour niche, to who you're gonna attract.
But ultimately it's a, what is your goal?
Is your goal to returnon ROI to investors?
Then maybe you need to build biggeror more sites or more quantity

(21:23):
to achieve that math problem.
Or is it, I wanna be happy with nine,10 sites, or I wanna be happy with
50 to a hundred RV sites or whatever.
I think there's a clear path.
And Scott, you can talk me through, likeI know we recently went over the KOA North
American Campground report on a bunch ofshows that talked about amenities people
are looking for and things like that.
I think there's a clear path totaking an RV park and if you provide

(21:43):
a good enough experience, I bet youcould charge $150, $200 a night.
If you had the amenities to back itup where you weren't just another, I
also am a luxury RV park with pads.
What do you think, Scott?

Scott Bahr (21:56):
Absolutely.
And there, there are some parksout there already doing that.
Find that and people are willing to it.
And it's much the as almost any attractsa certain type of clientele as well,
and that's what some parks want.
They want to attract that higherincome demographic to their sites.

(22:16):
And they do that by, they up the ante.
They offer, much more involved,services so that essentially it's a
resort, only you park your RV there.

Mary Arlington (22:26):
I actually, the first time I went clamping, it was at a campground.
It was just another RV site,except instead of pulling in an
RV, I walked into a safari tent.
It was gorgeous.
It had a deck, it had a fabulous bed withwonderful linens, and it was, pricier
than a cabin or pricier than an RV.

(22:47):
But it was still extremely affordable.
But the difference that I wanna get toin a minute is that it was a campsite.

Brian Searl (22:54):
Yes.

Mary Arlington (22:55):
It was me coming and sleeping and doing whatever I wanted.
I went home from that experience.
I didn't do AI 'cause it didn't exist.
I Googled, it did exist, butwe weren't using it anyway.
I Googled glamping Montanavacation or something like that.
And I start seeing thesereally cool things.
And then I look at the pricetag and it's astronomical.

Brian Searl (23:18):
Yeah.

Mary Arlington (23:18):
Compared to what, it wasn't anymore 149
a night, but, oh my gosh.
I got a chef's breakfast everyday delivered to my deck.
I could take all the equestrian ridesI wanted the whole time I was there.
There were these, massage appointments.
There was, It was a,total escape from reality.
Anyway, that's not how I live, butI said to myself, what did I Google?

(23:41):
Glamping Montana vacation or something.
And what if I had changed it to glampingColorado vacation and I would've been
shown campsites or glamping sites thathad completely different definitions.
You have to know reallywhat you're looking for.

Brian Searl (23:58):
I just wanna take a note for other recurring guests, Mark
and Scott, that association leadershave got to earn a lot of money to
be able to stay at places like that.
'cause I still can't do that.
Can you Mark or Scott, likethis is, we're in the wrong.

Mark Koep (24:11):
I think it's a perk of the job.

Brian Searl (24:13):
But you bring up a good point, right?
Very valid.
There's so many, back to thedefinition of glamping, right?
It can be anything.
But also think, and we talked about thison a show, I don't know, maybe a month or
two ago, I think Ali Rasmussen was fromSpacious Skies and a few other people.
And we were just talking aboutability and the requirement of people
to need to be creative these days.
If you're headed into what, by allaccounts, I'm just gonna keep quantifying

(24:35):
this 'cause this isn't Outwired, I'llbe more uncensored later, but what all
accounts looks like, perhaps, possiblymaybe a bad economy that may or may
not impact the Campground industryin a negative way quote unquote.
Whatever's happening if people are notgoing Camping in the numbers that they
were in 2021 and 2022 for sure that weknow that exists, then there must be a
way for you to differentiate yourself,whether it's experience or amenities

(24:58):
or type of site or, whatever that is.
And so I think there's a need for there,
let me rephrase that.
I think there hasn't been aneed for a lot of park owners,
whether they want to or not.
So not sliding the park owners themselves.
I think there has been aneed or hasn't been a need.
Sorry, I keep messingit up for a long time.

(25:20):
For park owners to really need toget creative unless they've wanted
to, because it's their passion orthey wanna design something unique
like Brian's properties like that.
I Think now you have to, and I'm notsaying that means you have to rip up
your whole park make it a glampingresort or something like that.
You really have to put thoughtinto this to differentiate
yourself from your competition.
And that's what you experienced,Mary, not what you saw.
Like obviously the Google search veryvalid point, but also is the market

(25:44):
for both of those things argue thatby number of people that can afford to
stay, there is probably a larger marketfor the safari tent on the campsite.
But by people who have aspirationaldesires to go, what they see as glamping
in the media, way more people on the otherside, they just can't quite afford it yet.

(26:05):
When those meet in the middle.
I think it's gonna require park ownerswho do want to participate in glamming.
Doesn't mean they have to, be a littlebit more creative than just slapping a
tent on what was formally an RV site.
What do you think, Mary?

Mary Arlington (26:17):
It's a nature of business.
Those years ago when I was a parkowner, I differentiated myself in ways
that were current at that time, suchas this new fangled thing called wifi.
Nobody had it.

Brian Searl (26:29):
Nobody still has it, Mary, we're still preaching about it.

Mary Arlington (26:33):
And, so staying current with the trends, staying ahead of the
trends, that's what separates you.
Certainly there are people who stilldon't have online reservations.
They still don't haveeven Excel spreadsheets.
If I ask them how many sites do theyhave and what's their occupancy?
They don't know.
Then there are others who, becausethey've embraced online reservations
and front office systems, I can ask'em the question and they say, I don't

(26:55):
know the answer, but gimme a second.
'cause I'm, automated, I justhave to ask it the question.
So the times are always changing.
I prefer to be one whostays ahead of the times.
Years ago when I was in college, I wastold by a professor that I have some
uncanny technique or ability to seea forest fire when it's just a spark.

(27:20):
And those of us who can do that let'snot call it a forest fire though, but
just we see something and we thinkwe're gonna go down this road because
I think I'm going to need later.
The day that I bought an RV park,I created a website and there
were parks that time, the vastmajority didn't have websites.
Whatever your language is fortoday, glamping whether you

(27:43):
want to have niche market.
But here's another thingI wanna throw out there.
It depends on where your vacationing.
If I'm going to someplace likeColorado, which I know so well, 'cause
I've been to every Campground, RVpark and whatever you wanna call it.
I've been to a mall in Colorado.

Brian Searl (28:00):
For the one burnout Bob's gonna create in a second, but go ahead.

Mary Arlington (28:05):
The people who go to those parks.
Colorado is the playground.
Colorado has, the amenities,they're not coming because this is
the coolest campsite in Colorado.
Although some are, you cannotstereotype in our industry.
For example, a jelly stone.
I'm thinking of the one up in Estes Park.

(28:26):
Their clientele is primarily from themetro area, and Colorado residents and
they're going up to Estes Park for thefamily activities at the Campground, but
also for Rocky Mountain National Park.
But for the most part most of thecampgrounds in Colorado don't have a pool.
They don't have mini golf.
They don't have bingo on Friday and aband on Saturday, because that's not what

(28:49):
the people are coming there to camp for.
So you gotta know who your audience is,why they're coming to your area, what you
wanna sell, and then do it really well.
Do that, that you want to do very well.

Brian Searl (29:02):
For sure.
I think there's I agree with everythingyou said, but I think there's also an
argument to be said, like Steve Jobs,you can sometimes create a market.
So one of the things I never would'veimagined looking for at a hotel, and
I know this is like way, I went toIceland a couple years ago, right?
There's a hotel who like, again,backed up to like beautiful Iceland,
which is crazy breathtaking.
But Colorado has a lot ofbreathtaking stuff too, right?

(29:24):
Just had outdoor hot tubs that youcould walk off patio, not right up
against the building, but like outin the field, like 20 feet, right?
And just water lines runningto 'em and just people that
would sit in there, right?
So I think some ways that you canenhance and create a different
market based on your location too.
And I don't think youdisagree with that, Mary.
I just wanted to add that.

Mary Arlington (29:41):
Yeah, that's a great addition.
And there are campgrounds inColorado that will have maybe
hot tubs because people will be.
I know there's a park in Leadville wherea lot of the, campers come because they're
gonna go hiking, climbing, or cycling,and they're up near 10,000 feet elevation.
Oxygen bar kind of could come in handy.
Hot tubs come in handy.

(30:02):
That you can certainly think outsidethe box to create a difference.
To stand out from the RV park that'stwo or five or 10 miles down the road.

Brian Searl (30:11):
And sometimes it's not even that hard, right?
It's just the, there'stwo steps in my process.
We'll use the hot tubfor an example, right?
Looked at my market, I've determined thata hot tub might be a good fit for me.
Let me put it right next to the pool.
Or let me put it 20 feet out fromthe building where you can have
a good mountain range for you.
That's a little harder.
Maybe that costs me a thousand bucksto run pipeline under whatever, right?
But I can also charge extra forand make a lot of money back.

(30:34):
I.
Yeah.
As a result of that.
Instagramable and whatever else.
So Simon, I know I'veleft you out a little bit.
I've been trying to get to you.
I appreciate your patience.
I'm curious, as we talk aboutsome of these different things.
Size of parks and the rigs and thebehavior and the amenities, this
is a little bit different overin Europe with the type of parks
you guys have over there, right?

Simon Neal (30:54):
Yeah, I think and I would say generally it's all holiday driven.
It's highly seasonal, and I think theaverage park size is around two to 300,
certainly from customers that we see.
But there is some reallybig parks as well.
We have a couple over 1,000, and1 of 2000 units here close by.

(31:15):
And they're good actually.
You get a similar experience in theseparks as some of the smaller ones.
Main differentiator is they oftenhave massive water parks, several
different pools, things like that.
So it is that kind of super amenity,which attracts people to them.
But the experience when you're inthe park is actually quite nice.
It's segregated.

(31:35):
You have different areas.
You feel like you're in a town,you have quite a bit of town,
you have a loud bit of town.
You can go for a walkin the town, it's safe.
Your kids can cycle forkilometers and it's fine.
So I think pretty good balance, butgenerally the average is a bit less.
In Terms of size two to300 units, I would say.
What is.

Brian Searl (31:56):
Go ahead.
Please finish.
I'm sorry.

Simon Neal (31:57):
I was saying just when we're talking about amenities and,
catering to the changing demographic,there's definitely been a lot
of investment recently and justimproving the basic amenities first.
Like great showers, great toilets.
Great kids entertainment, even ifit's something small, it's there.
Have a pool, great,but it's not necessary.

(32:18):
And then can, kind of building ontop of that, looking into local
experiences and booking thingsoutside the Campground as well.
But huge investment in qualityeven if you're not changing
the size of the Campground.
That's been pretty significant here thelast five years and that's kind of gone
in parallel with prices going up as well.
At the same time.

Brian Searl (32:38):
Maybe I'm making too big a deal of this, and you can tell me if I
am, but the neighborhood thing interestsme and I'm interested have you ever
stayed at one of the 3000 plus resortplaces in Myrtle Beach or anywhere else?
Oh, Mark left.
He turned off his cameraor maybe he's not there.
Anyway.
We'll ask him when he comes back.
Have you ever stayed at one?

Mary Arlington (32:57):
2000?

Brian Searl (32:57):
Yeah.

Mary Arlington (32:58):
I think the largest I've stayed at is close to 600.

Brian Searl (33:02):
I was just curious you brought up the neighborhood thing and the
different types of neighborhoods, Simon.
Is that common thing over in Europe?
Because I'm imagining it acouple different ways, right?
I'm imagining it like I'm justoverreacting to it and it's not really
as big a deal as I think, and two,I'm imagining it as like I can serve a
whole lot more people if I have a quietpart of town and a noisy part of town.

Simon Neal (33:23):
Yeah, it's definitely, I think, I don't think any of
them have been designed fromthe beginning to be like that.
They've organically andbeing reorganized to fit.
But you definitely have like, this isthe mobile home cabin glamping area.
This is, front, super posh, highvalue, and you have the kind of lower
value ones further away, are the onesin the forest, the ones like in the

(33:46):
more new area closer to the pool.
So they definitely are split up.
have the amenities for each area as well.
So you, when you're in that zone.
You kind of feel, you don't feellike you're in a massive town.
You feel like you're in a small village.

Brian Searl (34:00):
Yeah.

Simon Neal (34:00):
Walk to the big town center and everybody's there and it's full
of action and the restaurants and thebars, and then you go back to your
quiet village after five minute walk.
So quite nice

Brian Searl (34:08):
Easy, obviously, if they have Camp Map to find your way around.

Simon Neal (34:11):
Of course, yes.

Brian Searl (34:12):
The properties.
So that just, I threw you one, Simon.

Mary Arlington (34:15):
So I wanted to add to that if I could.

Brian Searl (34:17):
Yeah, go ahead.
And then I wanna ask Scott aquestion about the large RV
sites in the neighborhood.

Mary Arlington (34:20):
So there are campgrounds that have come up with this brilliant
idea that not everybody loves pets, butI have to welcome pets because otherwise
I'm gonna be excluding a large population.
So what they've done is they've said,oh, you're coming with pets, you have
to be in this part of the Campground.
Oh, you're not with pets,you're gonna be over here.
Same thing with children.
I've seen parks just gravitateto whatever I don't know

(34:44):
works for them.
If they're large enough, theycould even do all of the above.
They can have an area that has nokids, an area that has no pets.

Brian Searl (34:52):
What about a property like this, Scott?
Let's say we have a 3000 site property,but it's carefully segmented, either
intentionally or organically afterward,like Simon said into, is that paused
'cause I was like, Hey, wait aminute, that's a thing Simon says
like, do you have that in Europe?

Scott Bahr (35:07):
Simon says, yep.

Brian Searl (35:09):
Okay.

Scott Bahr (35:09):
I thought the same thing.

Brian Searl (35:10):
Sorry.
We should play that game one week, Simon.
Anyway, so Scott is that a thing thatcould help these parks survive and thrive?
Because we talk a lot about the differentamenities, like in the KOA report and
the things people are looking for.
Some of the up and coming things forest,bathing or grounding in the grass.
And even if you don't have clearsignage or a clear direction in

(35:30):
screwing up organically, likeat least the guests would know.
If they're trying to ground and they'rein the dog area, they'd quickly realize
they were in the wrong place, right.

Scott Bahr (35:38):
Absolutely.
And I think that in and of itself,a very different type of atmosphere.
In fact, several years ago Mark isignoring us, but was a part of that, the
whole Campground of the Future thing.
And that was, I don't know, sevenor eight years ago we did that.

Brian Searl (35:53):
Yeah.
Mark's pretty old.

Scott Bahr (35:54):
And one of the things.

Brian Searl (35:55):
Sorry, go ahead.

Scott Bahr (35:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, yeah, I mean, I actually saidwas the Campground of the future might be
a larger park that on the periphery fordifferent types of experiences, but in
the middle you have the community area.
You have a place where the store,maybe restaurants, whatever.
And Mary mentioned this too, it'slike a person can go back to their

(36:16):
area, to a place that they prefer,whether it's a no kids area, a no
dog area or a no kids or dogs area.
And that would accomplish that.
And that is the future of a muchlarger park, where it can still feel
like a much more experience, butyou're part of this larger community.

Simon Neal (36:37):
We even have one customer who has a huge section of the park, which
is naturist, so completely nude guests.
And then the other section of thepark is normal and, split beach.
And it's also quite common to have beachdedicated for dogs, with facilities,
for dogs and everything there.
They can swim in the sea there,but they can't go in other areas.
So there's definitelylots of variation around.

Brian Searl (36:56):
Yeah, I think that's interesting.
If you have, again, we talkedabout available to warrant
a higher priced RV site.
Higher priced RV sites that has, evenexclusive amenities or VIP experiences
or, There's just lots of ways to do this,but I think the creativity is gonna be
an important component to if you wantto, and it's okay if you don't, but if
you want to level up into a bunch oflarger sites or to go more than eight

(37:18):
or 10, if that's the career path thatyou're on, or if you're investor driven
and that's what they want, then I thinkthat creativity's gonna be necessary to
set yourself apart from the competitionin like the now, like for anybody
who's building now or in the future.
So, Brian, let's talk aboutyour company a a little bit.
We haven't gotten into it too much.
I'm sorry.
We've been having a good conversation.

Brian Linton (37:34):
We're talking about pets.
We, do really well withthe $40 a night dog fee.
That's a huge profit center becausethat doesn't mean that they get
to do damage with $40 a night.
That's just a dog at our glam ground.

Brian Searl (37:45):
Have you, can I just play devil's advocate for a second?
Have you, ever studied, and clearlythe $40 night thing works for you.
I'm not suggesting it wrong, but haveyou ever studied what would happen if
the dogs were free while you, obviouslythere'd have to be way to protect your
investment in your tents and who you'reallowing in there and not the, I don't
wanna single a lot of breed, but like.

Brian Linton (38:03):
Sure.

Brian Searl (38:04):
The little chihuahuas that destroy everything, we'll pick on them.
Have you ever explored offering, likepeople will spend a lot of money on
their pets, so is there any data, andmaybe you know this Scott too, is there
any data with lower pet fees obviouslywould attract more people, whether it's
the right people, the wrong people,depending on, how you wanna take care of
your tents and your price point overall.
But I imagine there's probably someprofit be made there, isn't there?

Brian Linton (38:27):
For selling like, various amenities for the pet versus all of it.

Brian Searl (38:32):
Yeah.
Or either amenities for the petor, deluxe treats or local organic
stuff or something like that.

Brian Linton (38:37):
That's a great idea.
You're saying lower the petfee, but then potentially.
Add in, a lot of other opportunities.

Brian Searl (38:44):
Like it's the same as me.
Like I go to the farmer's marketand I like to buy my food there,
but there's a little stall therefrom a lady who like hand makes like
beautiful treats that are icing likeI'm tempted to buy that every time.
And then the little, carriersare there and all the things.
And so I just feel like there's a bigopportunity for people to be like, my dog
went camping here, or who knows what it's.

Brian Linton (39:04):
Yeah, I think we should definitely add some of that type of stuff
into our, we have a camp store, like aself-service checkout camp store at our
properties and, we probably don't haveenough dog stuff in there I don't think
we have any dog stuff in there actually.
Which

Brian Searl (39:15):
5% royalty.
You remember I said it.

Mary Arlington (39:18):
When I had my RV park, I had a pet area, a pet section in the
store of leashes and food and toys.

Brian Linton (39:26):
Yeah.

Mary Arlington (39:26):
It was appreciated.
It wasn't even like, oh,thanks, I needed a leash.
It was, wow, I got this cool,whatever, sweater or whatever.
And it was a memory fromthe RV park for them.

Brian Searl (39:37):
Yeah.

Brian Linton (39:37):
Dog sweater?
You were selling dog sweaters?

Mary Arlington (39:40):
Whatever.
I had all sorts of things.
I had toys, I had this little miniaturetent that was a sunshade for dogs or cats.
It collapsed just like a tent does.
And the owners could take it and putit up at any campsite they got to and.

Brian Searl (39:52):
It's the essentials.
It's the unique things.
Right?
It's the things that theyremember buying there.
Like, I still remember my little Yorkie,I bought her like little booties that
were just like, I don't know, I thinkhalf wool and half cotton or whatever.
We ended up not really liking 'emin the snow up in Canada 'cause
like they just got wet and stayedwet, but They protected her feet
a little bit from the cold when shewas walking on dry ice or something.
But we remember getting those at Banff,I can't find 'em anywhere else in Banff

(40:14):
National Park in a tiny little pet store.
That was locally run.
That causes those memories and thatability to just say Hey, this is
something unique, I got it hereand I could only get it here.
Then it does dual purpose.
One, it makes 'em wanna buy it 'causeit's unique and gives you money.
But two, it makes 'em remember you.

Mary Arlington (40:32):
And Instagram.

Brian Linton (40:35):
Instagram.
Instagrammable moments.

Mary Arlington (40:38):
They'd turn around and post it that night
on a blog or in a Facebook post.

Brian Searl (40:44):
Yeah.
Interesting.

Mary Arlington (40:45):
Expected the free publicity.

Brian Searl (40:47):
It'll be really interesting to see and we don't have enough time
to talk about that at all today, but itwould be really interesting to see what
the Instagrammable moment is that weshould talk in Outwired sometimes, Scott,
the Instagrammable moment of the future.
Will it get to the view pointwhere like our phone cameras
or our watch or whatever.
I have a really cool thing to share abouttattoos too later, Scott on the show.

(41:09):
But will it get to the point wherethe phone can like completely
immerse you in experience?
Could you do a selfie in a virtual worldand share it with all the friends who
aren't camping with you in real time?
Look at my experience, like I'm, itwould be really interesting to see how
that work, how people share things in a,

Brian Linton (41:25):
I think you already sort of can do something like that.
I would think though that the realInstagrammable moments , it's changed so
much over the last few years, really sincethe last four or five years with TikTok
and the videofication of everything,this idea of pictures and Instagrammable
snapshots is now, it's really more aboutobviously content, but then the content is
not just Hey, look at this pretty thing.

(41:47):
It's really about thestories behind things.
That's like our focus isvery much on stories versus
just on the finished product.
I think stories are what almost have adefensibility from virtual reality in
a way because, and that's why I lovethis industry so much, by the way.
I haven't chirped in on the AI stuff, butI love this industry because it can be
enhanced by AI, but it can never be takenover by AI, Because as long as humans

Brian Searl (42:08):
No, it can be.
So this is, and again, I don't wantinterrupt, I want you to finish your
thought, but we talked about this inOutwired, it can be supplemented by AI
'cause we were talking about 54% ofpeople in New York City who don't own
cars, who can't get outta the city ordon't wanna fight the traffic, but could
experience a virtual campground andthen be like, oh, I really like this.
'cause they never would'veconsidered it before.
So I think there's a

Brian Linton (42:27):
Correct.
Yeah, it's gonna helpgreatly with the marketing.
Yeah.
I don't believe in the.

Brian Searl (42:30):
I'm gonna replace it.
I'm with you

Brian Linton (42:32):
VR aspect of Hey, I'm gonna go camping and stay in my apartment
because I'm gonna be immersed in it.
I think that's.

Brian Searl (42:36):
For sure, but there will be a lot of Gen Zers and people who will
be like, this is my version of camping.
Especially when you can feel it and.

Brian Linton (42:44):
Smores over the stove top while they're wearing a headset.
The stove top becomes a campfire.

Brian Searl (42:50):
I'm not advocating for it or saying it's better at all.
I'm an outside guy.
I'm just saying there's gonna be alarge portion of the population that
doesn't currently go camping now,they're not gonna take away people.

Brian Linton (43:00):
Sure.

Brian Searl (43:01):
Who have never experienced camping, who that
will be their version of camping.

Mary Arlington (43:04):
Once somebody has gone camping, they won't go back to that.

Brian Searl (43:08):
Yeah.

Brian Linton (43:10):
I think to the point.

Mary Arlington (43:10):
People are here for offering the experience.

Brian Searl (43:13):
But how do you then get them to that point?
So my argument on the show was like,maybe this is a marketing opportunity.
Maybe you spin up a digitalversion of your campground and
they stay for a dollar a night.
you could I don't know, 10 millionpeople for a dollar a night and introduce
'em to your real campground, and theycome and spend $65, a $100, $150 So
I view it as a marketing opportunity.

Brian Linton (43:32):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (43:32):
I don't view it as a replacement.

Brian Linton (43:33):
Yeah, no doubt.
No doubt.
Yeah.
AI and VR and all of is marketingenhancements and those that people embrace
it are gonna do really well with it.
And even like storytelling back to that,storytelling is enhanced greatly by LLMs
Chat GPT or Claude or Gemini, any ofthose, because anybody's able to become
a better storyteller through social mediabecause they can take the jumbled mush

(43:55):
in their head and they can synthesize itinto actual stories that they can then
record and tell through social media.
So that the playing field is gonna getharder and harder with storytelling.
But the idea that a lot of peopleare still stuck in when it comes
to social media marketing isit's about the finished product.
And people think hey, like this beautifulcampsite that I videoed and I cut and

(44:16):
I edited and I put some inspirationalmusic behind it is gonna attract people.
That's not what attracts peoplethese days on social media.
It's deeper stories why behind things.

Brian Searl (44:25):
For sure.
A hundred percent.

Brian Linton (44:26):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (44:26):
Simon, I'm curious what you think.
So obviously you run Camp Map, greatcompany, provides a lot of digital
maps, and this is a second shoutout to you, but there's a purpose
for doing the second one, Simon.
But really, great company.
Has recently doing, expandingover here to KOA and doing a lot
more work in the United States.
I'm curious what you think thefuture of mapping and guest
information looks like, Simon.

Simon Neal (44:46):
Yeah, I mean we keep our maps in the 2D world at the moment, and I think
they still belong there for some time.

Brian Searl (44:52):
Agree.
I agree a hundred percent.
I'm just curious whereyou think it might go.

Simon Neal (44:56):
There's plenty of ideas up here that we're gonna
build, but I think the end of day.

Brian Searl (45:00):
Are you're not gonna share them with us?
Nobody watches the show.
Just tell us all your secrets, man.

Simon Neal (45:03):
No, a map is a communication tool, right?
So what do you wanna communicate?
And it should be done in the easiest,simplest, most informative way possible.
So that's what we always aim for.
It's a bit like 3D television.
Sounds great, extra dimension, butpeople don't really like it very much.
So looking at how we could expand thatgoing into 3D if you wanna go there.

(45:26):
But you just need to keepit a great experience.
That's the most important thing.
What's the tool there to do andmake sure it does that the best it
can do without trying to put bellsand whistles on it, which often
ends up spoiling the whole thing.
But I think for sure we're buildinga data set now where you could
build a lot more on top of it.
Particularly with the AI.
I've seen what Google is doing fragmented,street view images from satellite images.

(45:50):
They're filling in the gaps with theAI, so you could actually build quite
a lot on top of what we already have.
But for now, I think theexperience is still okay as is,
but in the future for sure, it'sgonna, it's gonna get different.

Brian Searl (46:04):
Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you.
I don't think I'm advocating to changethe mapping experience I'm talking
about, just like we're talking about RVsites, if there is enough of a market
for it, which I don't think there isright now, but there's probably going
to be different subsets of people wholook at mapping and like you said,
the information in different ways.
So can we also provide a VR map?

(46:25):
I have an AI that posts onLinkedIn for me on my feed.
I've tailored it to be in my voice,but like it posted once couple months
ago, I think, or a couple weeks ago,about like creating an eight bit like
Minecraft map of your park, right?
Just little stuff, those littlethings can help you stand out too.
Even if they're geared toward kids oradults or a specific group of people.
And I'm not saying you should do that,but if you identify a potential market

(46:47):
for that, that could enhance your revenueor help you, then maybe that's better.
So

Simon Neal (46:52):
Yeah, for sure.
And like I said, the way we're buildingour product, it's set up to build stuff
like that on top of it quite easily.
And I think it's the market demand,like you said, if somebody comes
along and says, yeah, I really wannahave this, or we identify something
new, it's gonna really add value.
It's gonna be fairly easyto build that on top.

Brian Searl (47:11):
Yep.

Simon Neal (47:12):
Yep.

Brian Searl (47:13):
Mary's gotta leave here in a second.
Mary, do you wanna do thecampground real quick?
I have a made up campground for you.

Mary Arlington (47:18):
I just wanna talk a few minutes about Rivers and Rockies, but
I've about lost my voice for the day.

Brian Searl (47:23):
Let me give you the briefly about the campground and
you talk about Rivers and Rockies,while you recover your voice.
Is that okay?
Alright, with that, Jessica, can youhit the screen share on my camera?
There.
Okay.
Dunno if you guys can seethis, this'll still be bigger.
So this is burnout Bob, our Insanecampground consultant, Scott knows this.
And so I said make up acampground that's never existed.
Burnout Bob style.
And it's called Wild PanicPines Campground and Emotional
Recovery Center, where the onlything organized is the chaos.

(47:46):
It's located somewhere between a hauntedlumber mill and abandoned cheese factory
and a portal to the screaming void.
GPS doesn't work here.
You'll know you've arrived when yourradio starts playing only bagpipes.
And we won't go through all thisright, but features and attractions,
the triangle of mild peril.
A section of campsites arranged ina geometric shape, proven by Bob's

(48:06):
cousin who got kicked out of communitycollege for turning a spreadsheet
into a salad to increase camp drama.
Ooh, that's good, Mary.
That would be good.
Can you imagine havingone of those at your park?

Mary Arlington (48:16):
Love it.

Brian Searl (48:17):
Every triangle corner has a picnic table with one broken
leg and a passive aggressive squirrel.
The mystery pool, water temperature,unknown contents, also unknown,
may be haunted by the ghost ofa lifeguard who is too chill.
Theme nights include survival bingo.
Win prizes by locating matches araccoon or your missing dignity.
Margaritas and minor injuries.
Self-explanatory.

(48:37):
Reverse karaoke.
The audience sings, the performer cries.
Chainsaw Larry Whitlandand Helen Pavilion.
I don't even know if I couldsay that two times fast.
Bring wood.
Leave a changed person.
Cry Once he respects that.
What else do we got?
Rules.

Mary Arlington (48:50):
How much does AI say this is gonna cost us?

Brian Searl (48:53):
I don't know.
That's a good que.
Oh, it does say that.
We're gonna get there.
We gotta do the rules.
Quiet hours are wheneverChainsaw Larry is napping.
If you see something strangein the woods, don't report it.
Write a haiku about it.
All raccoons are staff.
No exceptions.
And no refunds ever.
Even if you never arrive,especially if you do.
Primitive site is only $7 and one secret.
A full hookup costs $42 ina small vial of your tears.

(49:17):
A glamping year is $138.
And a performance of interpretivedance at check-in and cabin.
We don't speak of the cabin.
I like it.
What do you think, Mary?

Mary Arlington (49:26):
I think he did a good job.

Brian Searl (49:28):
All right.
I mean, it wasn't me.
It was burnout Bob.
So tell us about Rivers and Rockies.

Mary Arlington (49:32):
Rivers and Rockies.
It's basically a state association,like many state associations like many
states have for the campground owners.
And it is just got a larger net.
There's about 13 states that are eligiblefor membership and they're mostly
states that have never experienced thebenefits, the wide array of benefits

(49:52):
that the parks in South Dakota andColorado have had for 56, 55 years.
So we took Colorado andSouth Dakota's associations.
The members threw together ideas of whatbenefits they liked and didn't like,
chewed it up and threw away some andenhanced some and kept some, and then
spread the umbrella across all these otherstates that hadn't been experiencing it.

(50:16):
So this I don't know if we're eightmonths old yet, seven months, eight
months old, something like that.
And it's just a really excitingopportunity to see the blending
of Colorado and South Dakota'sassociations, which I used to
be the executive, I still am.
But when they were standaloneassociations, I was the
executive director of each.
And I saw how they had common thingsand how they did things differently.

(50:38):
For example, Coloradocould use more in advocacy.
And South Dakota has an excellentadvocacy team and process in place.
And so learning from South Dakotaand applying it Oklahoma or Nebraska
or Colorado, any of these states.
And it's just really a good opportunityfor the park owners who would like

(50:58):
to have a little more localized kindof organization working with them.
And it's a lot of fun actually.
And here we are, sevenor eight months old.

Brian Searl (51:08):
I wanna try to, I'm curious 'cause I always try to ask a spin you on
the head question and I'm really sorry wedidn't get to you for so long in the show.
And if you have to jump off, please.
I'm just curious.
I think it's an interestingconcept because you've been around
obviously and helping campgroundsfor much longer than I have.
Although I feel like it gets older for me,I think it's 16 or 17 years for me now.
It's just crazy to look back on and think.

(51:30):
But

Mary Arlington (51:31):
I remember when you came into the industry,
I'm on year 26, I think.

Brian Searl (51:36):
Nice.
Yeah.
So lots of experience, lots of wisdom.
So that makes this question even moreinteresting I think few people have
an opportunity to do this, right?
To come in and say, we're going tonot, we're gonna create something
new based on what we already know.
there are a lot of associationsthat exist that can improve and have
improved and continue to improve.
But there's very few opportunity tosay, we're gonna create something brand

(51:58):
new and learn from all the things wealready know and bring it all together
into one, like really good association.
So I want to ask that questionthat you think I'm going to,
what are some of the great thingsthat you think came out of that?
But before you answer that, Iwant to try to spin it on the head
and ask an interesting question.
What's something that you were like, ohno, that can't be part of our association.
We learned that doesn't work.

Mary Arlington (52:18):
Marketing.
Marketing is one that we Marketing.
Yep.
Marketing.
We spit out Colorado and South Dakotastill have Camp Colorado and camp in South
Dakota, and they still do really well.
But how does somebody like me say comecamp in Nebraska when I have zero, one or
five parks in membership at this point?
So we can't, and if we would bringNebraska marketing into South Dakota

(52:42):
or Colorado, then there are alreadypreset opportunities with grants and
programs through the tourism officethat are very specific to within the
boundaries of a particular state.
So we couldn't.
And we simply said, not gonna happen.
Now we will continue Coloradosand South Dakotas on their behalf.
But, so that was when we spit out.

(53:03):
One of the things we did a lot betterwas when we created this from scratch,
basically pulling together all theseideas, we changed the membership year.
It used to be based on the calendar year.
It isn't anymore.
When you come up for air inSeptember you come up for air
clean up your park and all that.
You're gonna move into your off season.

(53:25):
You're gonna be makingchanges for next year.
And it isn't, it doesn't makesense that you drop membership
midway through that cycle.
So our membership year for theparks is October through September.
So just one of the examplesof how we got smarter.

Brian Searl (53:38):
Yeah.
interesting.
Okay.
I think we're always.
Is there anything else you wannasay about Rivers and Rockies?
I'm really sorry, I meantto get to it earlier.
We just had such a great conversation.
We were going back and forth.
We never get to everything we want.
We'll have you back on theshow to talk more about it.

Mary Arlington (53:50):
That'd be great.
Yep.
I need to be in another meeting,but it's a pleasure to be with
everybody and thank you so much.

Brian Searl (53:55):
Real quick, give your website URL before we go.

Mary Arlington (53:57):
rrolc.org.

Brian Searl (54:01):
Thank you Mary.
I appreciate it.

Mary Arlington (54:02):
Thanks Brian.
Bye.

Brian Searl (54:03):
Final thoughts everybody.
We'll start Simon please andthen obviously share where they
can learn more about Camp Map.

Simon Neal (54:10):
I think just on the stuff we talked about last month is things
are looking good for the season.
think in the next four weeks I'llrestart to kick off here in Europe with
the first big holidays of the schools.
So looking good and very positive so far.
Camp Map, yeah, you canfind us at campmap.com.
We help campgrounds improvemarketing guest experience
with professional digital maps.

Brian Searl (54:30):
Awesome.
Thank you Simon.
I appreciate it Scott.

Scott Bahr (54:35):
My closing thoughts are that we should look ahead till
later in the season this year.
I think we might, have some things settle.
I think things might, rebound alittle bit in terms of, know a lot
of people are, have some concerns andstuff of where we're at right now.
I'm relatively optimisticabout later in the season, the
August, September timeframe.

Brian Searl (54:52):
Good.
That's awesome.
and then we're gonna find outmore about Carin Consulting?

Scott Bahr (54:55):
carinconsulting.com.
I won't spell it out, but on therewe have a resource library and we
have a bunch of the reports I'vedone with Brian as well as the
overall, Camping Outdoor Hospitality.
It's a free resource for everyone.
There's a lot of information thereand always reach out with questions.

Brian Searl (55:07):
And last but not least, Brian, I know like, again,
I keep apologizing to everybody.
I would love to talk moreabout your franchise model.
We'll have to have you back on the show.
Sometimes these conversationsjust go this way.
But is there anything else thatwe need to know that, about
Linton Hospitality or your, sorry,your, it's a different company.
Why do I have LintonHospitality in my notes?

Brian Linton (55:24):
It's my holding company, but Ferncrest is the brand.
We have a hotel, we have a hotelin Philadelphia, but then we have
Ferncrest, which is our Glampground concept, which is being
franchised across the United States.
We have many, many indevelopment right now.
It's sort of a sleeper mode.
Not many people would know about it.
But due to our large personalsocial media following, we have, I
personally have maybe about 750,000people that follow me on social media.

(55:47):
So that's fueled a lot of, again, backto that storytelling and the ability to
get a lot of people into our world andour sphere and, it's opened up a lot of
opportunities for us and we're developinga lot of glam grounds as a result.
So all under the Ferncrest brand,creating sort of systems, processes,
marketing all behind the scenes throughthe franchise network that's gonna allow

(56:08):
landowners and aspirational glam groundowners to open up glam grounds with
us rather than doing it on their own.
It's scary to do it on your ownand, lot of people want the cocoon
and the safety net of a brand andworking with somebody like us.

Brian Searl (56:21):
And what is the one thing, just 'cause we have to go,
and I promise we'll have you backon the show, I'm sorry, the one
thing that sets Ferncrest apart?

Brian Linton (56:30):
The one thing that sets Ferncrest apart is, yeah,

Brian Searl (56:32):
You can only pick one man, we don't have enough time.
No, I'm kidding.
I know there's more, but one thing whereyou're like, yes, this is why Ferncrest.

Brian Linton (56:40):
Sure.
I would say the wellness amenities,the wellness focus, it's all
about, touching into that modernneed for health and wellness.
And yes, it's about family and it'sabout a whole bunch of other things.
At the end of the day, we createoutdoor refugee, like outdoor spaces
for people to really rest, recoupand rejuvenate in nature and in a

(57:00):
luxurious way, not in a Camping way.
'cause lot of people like methat have young kids and don't
want to go through the work.
So it's the core elements of glamping,supercharged by our brand, supercharged
by our operations and our customer serviceand all the things that make it special.

Brian Searl (57:14):
And if they're interested in learning more about
Ferncrest, where do they go?

Brian Linton (57:17):
I actually recommend people, first and foremost check
me on Instagram or Facebook.
It's called Finding Promised Land ismy personal behind the scenes accounts.
That's where I document the wholeprocess of building what we do.
So Finding Promised Land, and then if theywanna check more about the business model
and franchising, findingpromisedland.com
as well, is what they can lookat and that'll take them into
all sorts of different areas.

Brian Searl (57:38):
I gotta ask, I know Scott, if it's in Simon, if you wanna jump
out, I gotta ask though, like, where'dfind Finding Promised Land come from?
I'm just curious.

Brian Linton (57:44):
So, in Covid 2020, we left Philadelphia for a year and we
lived in a town called Promised Land.
We bought an old motel, we moved into it.
We lived in it Schitt's Creek style andthat was the informal name for that town.
It's right next to a Promised Land.
It's called Promised Land State Park.
It's called Promised Land.
And so it was inspired bythat, but now it's very much,

(58:04):
we don't live there anymore.
But it's very inspired by that sortof journey of finding Promised Land.

Brian Searl (58:08):
Awesome.
Thank you for being on the show, Brian.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks to my one remaining guest who stuckwith us, Simon, and you're in Europe too.
It's late for you.
Everybody else I just can't handle this.
It's too late in the midday for me.
We gotta go.
but I appreciate so check out CampMap, check out Brian, at Ferncrest.
I really appreciate you guys beinghere for another episode of MC Fireside
Chats and we'll see you next week guys.

(58:29):
Take care
You

Simon Neal (58:30):
too.
Bye