MC Fireside Chats - August 20th, 2025 - MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Searl (00:00):
Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks.
Hopefully you guys can hear me okay.
Everything's working well.
I'm in a remote location here.
Don't have my normal studio, everythingbehind me, but at least we're in
like horizontal mode this time.
I think, was it you, Robert?
You were on the show last time, right?
With us.
It was this show.
We were like in vertical.
We were switchingeverybody back and forth.
So I've managed to dothat right this time.

(00:22):
But so welcome, everybody.
Excited to have another show here.
We've got a couplerecurring guests, as always.
I mentioned RobertPreston from Unhitched RV.
I'm gonna let you introduce yourselfnext time, Robert, but we'll have
you introduce over a second so youcan get your company name right.
Jeff Hoffman is back with us.
Sandy Ellingson maybe,or maybe not, is here.
She was there and there's a, didshe open the door and just leave?

(00:43):
Maybe she got offendedby something I said.

Jeff Hoffman (00:45):
There she is.

And there she is.
Okay.
And then we have a couple specialguests Amanda, Will and Rylan
is, am I saying that right?
Rylan?

Rylan Blowers (00:55):
Yeah.

Yeah.
Okay, cool.
I just didn't know if you misspelledRyan, so I just wanted to make
sure I didn't call you Rylan.The,

I have been misspelling for 30 years.
I you're the first one to notice.

No, that's fine.
I like it 'cause like my, I'm Brianand I think people with creative names
are much more interesting to talk to.
I'm, I still, it's on my agendato talk to my mother about
why she wasn't more creative.

Yeah.
My parents made interesting.
Just throw an extra letter inthere just to confuse people, so.

I like it.
All right, so let's go around theroom briefly introduce ourselves.
We wanna start with our recurring guests.
Wanna kick it off, Robert?

Robert Preston (01:23):
Hey, good afternoon everyone.
Robert Preston, CEO of Unhitched RV,and Unhitched Property Management.
Thanks for having me on Brian.
Looking forward to this discussion.

Appreciate you being here as always, Robert, Jeff.
Hi, I'm Jeff Hoffman.
I'm the founder of Camp Strategyand we're based out of Ohio, but
we work across the nation tryingto help campgrounds get profitable.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Jeff.
Sandy?

Sandy Ellingson (01:52):
I am Sandy Ellingson and I'm an industry advocate, which means
I spend my time connecting campgroundswith the RV industry and making sure
we do things together collaboratively.

Sandy, you look like you've been on a beach in Mexico for too long.
You look a like sunburn.
Is it just me?
She looks a little sunburn, doesn't she?

I think it's just the lighting, but I have been at
Lake Okeechobee in the sun for while.

It's a good place to be too, while it's pretty cool.
Yeah, it's pretty nice down there.

Yeah.
I'm loving the alligators

You doing Down my old stomping grounds.

Working, of course.

Have you ever been super close to an alligator, like really close?

Oh yeah.
I was about three feet fromone, just a few minutes ago.
About 11 and a half foot.

We were like I remember going down to the Everglades so far
off topic, but I remember going downto the Everglades years ago and we
were at one of the state parks there.
And there was a barrier rightbetween us but you could I was
probably like, I dunno, maybe lessthan two feet away from the alley.
Like you could hear 'em hiss and Inever knew they hissed before that.
It's just really interesting to me.

(02:59):
So anyway oh yeah, I'vebeen to Okeechobee.
Very nice place.
Who's next?
Who wants us kick us off fromour special guest perspective?
Who wants to be the braveone that goes first?

Amanda Buswell (03:07):
I'll go.

Okay.

Hi everyone.
My name's Amanda Buswell.
I am the regional managerfor Purity Spring Resort.
And I also serve as the generalmanager for Danforth Bay Camping and
RV Resort in Freedom New Hampshire.

And do you work for a larger company, Amanda or?

So I work for the Hoyt family.
They own Purity Spring Resortin Madison, New Hampshire.
Purity Spring operates PuritySpring, which is a lodging business.
They also operate King Pine Ski area.
They operate Camp de Comea POG forboys, Danforth Bay Camping RV Resort,
and then also Traditions Restaurant.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Will you want, will you wanna go next?
We'll say, got full namelast, just Will now?

Will Kuntzelmann (03:50):
Yeah.
Will Kuntzelmann the owner ofSmuggler's Notch RV Village in
Smuggler's Notch or Cambridge, Vermont.
So we're a pretty new Campground.
It's our second seasonyeah, happy to be here.

But you made up for the Will with Smuggler's Notch.
That's Steve Gold Campground name.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good, that's a good plan.

Yeah.

Rylan.

Yeah.
Yeah.
We have a lot of NewEngland representation here.
I'm just down the roadfrom Smuggler's notch.
They've done an incredible job.
I didn't know you were open for two years'cause you guys seem like you're crush it.
But I'm in Burlington, Vermont, and Rylan,I'm the co-founder here at Park Software.
We are Campground management software,and we're, our whole shtick is that
we're the world's easiest to useCampground management software, and
we're always free for our parks.
And today we work with over 500,mostly small, medium sized RV parks.

(04:32):
So a lot of folks like yourself,so appreciate you having us on.

Awesome.
Appreciate being here, Rylan.
So how we typically start to show up.
I'll talk it to our recurring guest first.
Jeff, Sandy, Robert, is there anythingthat's come across your desk in the last
month since we've all been together thatyou feel is vital worthy of talking about
when need to address anything like that?

Sure I'll start, a couple big things that, I don't know, I
think it's been the last 30 days since wemet, but of course the lots of huge tax
benefits that have come down the road withthe passing of the big, beautiful bill.
And that's gonna be, instrumental to,I think the investment side of it.
The fact that we can, get thatbonus depreciation back to a
hundred percent and the ability towrite off the vehicles themselves.

(05:16):
And the interest now from thecustomer perspective, right?
So if you buy a new RV a lot ofthat interest or most of that
interest now can be written offeven for the general customer.
So hopefully that starts to pusha little bit on the unit sales.
So that's some pretty exciting news.
I think it's been the last 30days, but I may have been wrong.
It's close enough, right?
Close enough.

So I think that's a, I think that's a worthy discussion to
have though, especially 'cause we haveJeff Hoffman here who's an accountant,
just briefly, and Sandy can weigh inand then everyone else can weigh in too.
Regardless of what you like,I like things Trump does.
I like, I don't like things Trump does.
I think we're all in the same camp, buthe there I think we'll all can agree
that we don't like paying more taxes.
And so we had this big, beautiful bill.
There was obviously abunch of stuff in it.

(05:56):
It was unrelated to taxes, but abig chunk of it was what Robert
just talked about, depreciation andhelping, like it's gonna help a lot
of owners in various different facets.
Without me talking, I'mnot the accounting expert.
I'm not tax expert.
Jeff is, I would callJeff an accounting expert.
Would you, Jeff?

No,
not anymore.

Mediocre.

Not on tax law.

Entry level, whatever it was.

I was, yeah, I was a CPA at one time.
But tax law, as changesdramatically year to year.
Administration.
Administration.
But yeah, I was.
Active with OHI in advocatingfor this bill to get included
and make sure that it passed.

(06:41):
So we are very happy at OHI to make surethat it was included in the new bill and
it will benefit all Campground owners

So how is what I want to get to, right?
So there's obviously the politicalpeople who sell it and say it's a good
idea and we know it's a good idea.
And like for the people who knowabout depreciation and those kinds
of things, it's easy to understand.
But for the regular Campground owner herewho's looking at upgrades or changes or
maintenance or improvements or capital,whatever, how does it benefit them?

It's, yeah, it's gonna allow them to write off their depreciable
assets sooner than they would have.
Basically you're gonna be able to takea hundred percent deduction on quite a
bit of equipment purchases and everythingelse that you're gonna buy into.

(07:30):
So your tax, your tax basis willbe, you probably can get it down
to close to zero if you're buildingyour park out or adding stuff.
So it does help with with that, I watchdepreciation because I have my own little
theory about depreciation in that youcan't always count it as a non-cash item.

(07:55):
You do have to have a reserve, and that'swhat depreciation is supposed to be.
But it does cut, by having depreciation,it cuts your taxes and it allows you
to write off your capital quickerthan you would get any other way.

How so Robert, you started this conversation, right?
So how is this gonna impactsome of the things you're
doing around your properties?
Or how do you hope it does?
Maybe
mute Robert?
Yeah, you look like you're on mute.

Now?

There you go.
Yep.
Sounds good.

Okay.
Now, you're good.

Yeah, so it certainly affects, investment side, right?
A lot of it, a lot of what we doinvesting is for depreciation.
It's one of the main reasons that makesreal estate such a lucrative, valuable
way to build wealth and for the long term.
But what I think is really importantfor all of us is that this, for,
this is one of the first bills thatactually helps with the customer too.

(09:00):
So yes, we get the bonus depreciation,we can move that forward.
We can do cost sags, we can doall that kind of cool, fun stuff.
But in the bill actually,and in the bill, right?
The interest cost of the RV itself forthe customer is now a write off, right?
That, so that's a big change.
So this helps all customers, notjust the park owners and investors.

(09:23):
So in essence, it makes the ownershipof an RV less expensive, right?
Which we'd assume and hope that thenwould drive up the sales, which then would
increase the number of RVers out there,which, helps us as park owners and helps
the software managers and helps everyone.
And and I think it'll affect, myopinions is that offset of interest

(09:43):
or being able to deduct your interest,RV probably is most, most applicable
in the higher ticket unit, right?
The motor coaches, the big fifth wheels.
'cause the price tags of thosehave gotten pretty expensive.
And if you look at the sales sideof it from the manufacturers.
We're back to a pretty normal unitcount sales for the year, but most

(10:05):
of that's made up in the traveltrailer in the fifth wheel segment.
The motor coach and RV segmentis still way down the cost.
We would probably expect to seehopefully, I think the intent here
on that bill and what we're expectingto see is hopefully that motor coach
component and the more expensive RVcomponent sales would start to increase
back up because of the tax benefitsthat are now in place for those buyers.

(10:25):
So that's the extent of my tax knowledge.
I'm not a tax accountant.
CPA make sure you call yoursbefore you do make any.

None of what you hear here is tax or investment advice, whatever else
we have to say to disclose all that stuff.
There's my disc clearance.
What if it was, you should forsure not listen to anything I said.
You shouldn't listen to me.
Maybe what Jeff says, but not what I say.
Yeah.
It's the first time I've heardabout that though for the RVers.
So what we're basically talking about andthis is again coming from somebody who's
not an accountant, not a whatever, I don'tunderstand this maybe as good as I should.

(10:53):
But what you're basically saying iswhen they buy an RV, they take out
a loan on that RV to purchase it.
The interest payments thatwould be attached to that loan
now are a write off for that.

In some instances.
Exactly.
Yes.
So you're, if you own your home,the interest that you're paying
for your home mortgage, there isa write off on your taxes, is you
can deduct that from your earnings.
Again, not a, not the I-R-S-C-P-A, butthe new bill would allow for that cost
of your interest if you borrowed moneyto buy an RV to then be deducted off of

(11:22):
off of your normal income rollable taxes.
Yeah.

So yeah, basically if you paid 60 grand for an RV and your
interest rate was eight which hopefullythat comes down, but that would
be like $4,800 a year in interest.
Your tax savings off of that wouldbe whatever tax rates you are.
So say 25% of the $4,800.

(11:48):
Would be your tax write off.

So only if you're making like pretty good chunk.
Only if you're positive and owing taxes.
This isn't refund stuff.
If we back.
Okay.

Actually you probably paid in, so unless you're if you pay, yes.
If you, unless you're abusiness man that's making
estimates and everything else.
Generally most of the public, the onlytaxes they do is off of their payroll
taxes and generally those are overpaid.
So they actually then would get arefund off of this, which then they can.

Strategy for somebody like you, Jeff, to just
buy us all RVs and save money.
Since you make a lot more money than wedo, is there a strategy where you can just
save on all your taxes and get us all RV?

Yeah.
Yeah, not a problem.
Okay.
Yeah, as long as you can't at allmy clients' parks and you pay triple
the rates, it's not a problem.

Are those deductible too?
Is there an interest savings on those?
I need a lot.
I don't have enough moneyto say they're for us.

We're in the industry tax write off doing research.

Yeah, I was gonna say it's a hundred percent right off for me.
My new rig is 100% going awaythat on my taxes this year.

My, my CPA is so conservative, he doesn't
let me write off my RV.
Even though I use it for my office.

I might get a new p

I rented a stick and brick just for that reason this year.
Because it can't be your primary home.
Yeah.
So it's not, even though I amin it 12 months outta year.

What you would, you go in it, look at Jeff's primary home.
He's got a swing pool in the background.
It's nice and tropical.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm squatting again.
Yeah.
I don't know whose house this is.

Same one.
Amanda's in.

Yeah.

Oh.
Oh, that was interesting, Amanda.
I didn't see exact same spot.
I think we've just proved theexistence of parallel universes.

Yeah.

That's funny.

We could, yeah.
Okay.
So I think though this isimportant for again, we've
talked about the depreciation.
We've talked about thedifferent things for RV owners.
Like I think it's important for maybeit's just me and I'm not an RV park
owner, but I think there are a lot ofowners out there who are unaware of some
of the unique things and advantages theycan take of take advantage of twice in
the same sentence as part of tax law.
And so I think it's even more vital,like to look at somebody like, I

(14:01):
know Jeff, you're not doing a CPAwork anymore, but there's a lot of
these companies that exist that servecampgrounds, RV Park specifically.
They could take advantageof some of these deductions.
I can't remember, I haven't seen them anyin a while, Jeff, but there's like camp
and park accounting that's in Ohio, right?
Yep.
And a few other ones.

Yep.

I think it's know some of these nitty gritty unique things that
you guys can take advantage of becauseyes we all can joke around and say we
don't like paying taxes, but also if youdon't have to pay taxes or as much taxes.
This something should,

yeah.
Going along your line there, Brian.
I would say most people, if they wouldhire an actual CPA firm to do their
taxes, even though they, it seemsexpensive, in the end, it's going to
be cheaper because they're gonna knowevery deduction, everything that you
can take versus the bookkeeper that'sdoing your taxes generally doesn't know

(14:58):
90% of the tax law that's out there.
And that's, tax code is, ever changingrulings are coming out all the time,
so you really want somebody that knowsthe code to save you the most money.
And yeah.

Even if you're doing that full time, you can't keep up with it all.
Like I remember I have a cross-borderaccountant we work with in Calgary
that's I have a US company, Ihave a Canadian company, and then
I have a couple other companies.
But doing that cross-border tax law, evenlike I use chat GPT to help her be like,
oh, I didn't realize that law passed.
Let's shift your income from the US toCanada to that business makes more sense
from a tax they just can't keep up.

(15:34):
Just like I can't keep up with AI.
Even it's.

Same reason I use a CPA firm.
I can't keep up, so I hire afirm to do all of the work.
Some crazy ideas once in a while, but.

What else we got?
Sandy, Jeff?
Anything else come acrossyour desk or Robert too?

And going on Robert's point with the tax abatement.
And then also the interest deductionRV is, I would say about 95% American
made four units sold in the US.
So anything that stimulates theRV business is actually gonna

(16:16):
stimulate our economies that arebased off of the RV industry.
So I do think it could help because the RVindustry actually was a boom during COVID,
but right now we had a lot of peopleenter, they added a lot of production

(16:36):
and now it's stagnating a little bit.
So anything that can help thatindustry grow is gonna be great.

Yeah, for sure.

That would be more Sandy's forte than mine.
She's definitely in that business.
Yeah.
Is there.

Yeah.
I was gonna say, we we've just been doingsome research and the results aren't out
yet, so I'm it's not all been analyzedyet, so I'm talking off the cuff here.
But I have been very interested inwhat's happening with occupancy.
And I understood somewhat last year wherewe were with occupancy, but this year I

(17:13):
expected to see occupancy improve and wehaven't really seen those expectations.
And so some of what we are discovering isthat there is a direct correlation between
what's happening in the RV industry andwhat's happening with our occupancy.
And a large part of that is thatwe have a, an entire generation of

(17:35):
people who, one, have not been liketheir parents didn't introduce them
into the RV side of the industry.
So they're having todiscover it on their own.
Two, we don't have the onboardingtools that we used to have to get
this younger generation into RVing.
And so what's happened is we nowhave more people retiring out

(17:56):
of, and I'm not talking aboutCamping, I'm talking about RVing.
Okay.
We have more people retiring outof RVing than we do going into it.
But what's interesting is that inother areas, people are creating
their own onboarding methods.
We are just not taking advantage of that.
I was having some conversations witha bunch of the people that are in

(18:18):
the Overlanders group and it's 17%of the people we surveyed that are
in Overlanders also have an RV, butthey've never equated the two together.
And we are doing nothing to tryand meet them where they are.
They had a huge conference,they do four a year.
The only company representing the RVindustry at all at this event was Dometic.

(18:42):
And my question to the industryis, why are we not there?
Because, and they're likewe don't sell Overlanders.
We don't sell the cars, andwe don't, that doesn't matter.
This is your onboarding point.
And I think while the industry needsto see that, the campgrounds need to
understand that too and help process.

When you say onboarding, you mean upsell point, don't you?

No, way.
How do you get somebody into, no.
How do you get somebody intothe Camping and, lifestyle?
How, what do they see?
How do they get into.

How do you get them from Marriott to campgrounds?

But that's not all through RVs, right?
Like it's one path.

That's exactly right.
And but the problem is that they've,the industry has so much focused
on just the RVing piece of it.
And campgrounds have relied onthe RV industry to be selling
rigs to bring new people in.
Years ago, most campgroundsstopped taking tent campers.

Yeah.

Which was the gateway drug and the entry, the
onboarding process to Camping for theperson that was just starting out.
So we're seeing the value of all ofthat come out in some of this data.
And it's gonna be really interestingto see the results of all this
when it gets tied together.

I think for sure there's a lack of, and we've talked about it
in this show before, maybe not withyou guys specifically, but on this show
before about there's a lack of cohesivestrategy to get people interested
in the outdoor lifestyle period.
And that goes to Earl with blackfolks camp too, that goes to the RV
industry with what you're talking about.
That goes to urban people who livein Manhattan who don't have a car,
and no way to get to a Campgroundlike all kinds of different segments.

(20:21):
And there does for sure need to be, Ithink a more cohesive educational effort
of introducing people, especially whenthey're young and they're kids, into the
joys of not just the outdoor lifestyle.
'cause if you're, that'sa big piece of it, right?
If you're a kid and you go to alake is behind me, or you go hiking
or you go mountain biking or yougo whatever, then you're for sure
gonna have a greater appreciation.

(20:42):
If you're fishing with your dad, Ithink you're gonna end up having a
greater chance of him being willingto at least try RVing or Camping or
whatever else and being more open to it.
So I, I don't think we're gonna solve thaton that show, but it's a good thought.
It needs called out, right?

Yeah.
And there are a lot of opportunitiescoming up and there's, that'll be
bringing out some of this researchfor my campgrounds to find out about
all these different things that aregoing on and how they can incorporate
new onboarding processes and new newways of marketing themselves as an as.
And marketing the experience overjust the Camping, like what we found

(21:22):
too younger people aren't lookingfor a place to park a rig and camp.
They're looking for an experience.
And we've already been testing this insome of my campgrounds where we should
have higher occupancy and we don't.
When we do a standard, regular weekendwhere it's just a regular marketing
campaign versus a marketing campaignwhere it's an all inclusive weekend and

(21:46):
we throw in some of the new technologylike Stretch Bill or some of those other
things where the younger person can payover three or four pays we see occupancy
automatically rise amazingly becausethey're looking for the experience.
An example is we did a oneweekend, just a regular Camping.
The other weekend we did asandcastle tournament and then

(22:08):
a training class for kids.
We were literally within fivehours of releasing that email
to an existing email group.
So we didn't even have to pay for it.
We were a hundred percent soldout on a part that had 78 sites.

Yeah, you're not gonna get any argument from me.
That experience is thedriver of everything.
Almost everything going forward.
And I'd love to hear yourthoughts about this, Robert.
I wanna get to Will and Rylan and Amanda.
Do you actually, will, what areyour thoughts on experience?
Let's have your, let's Will, and Amanda,let's have you guys talk with me talking.

Oh, yeah.
So our our Campground here, it's60 sites, smaller Campground.
But we don't have, a ton of amenities.
We don't have a pool, we don't have,it's basically just the Campground
we're working on adding some stuff.
But but yeah, the experienceis very important.
Everybody who's coming toour Campground is here to get
out and experience the area.

(22:55):
When a guest arrives, I'm usually,I have all kinds of, I have
everybody's email and phone number.
So depending on what those people arethere to do, I have an email that goes
out that, gives them, okay, here's all thehere's all the hikes in the area, here's
all the waterfalls, here's the swimmingholes, or the, restaurants, breweries.
So the guests surely appreciate that.

(23:19):
I get compliments all the time.
Nobody, there's not a lot of othercampgrounds that are doing that.
But yeah.

Something cool, like I, I'm telling you, I don't know what
your theme is or what your brand is.
I haven't even lookedat your website Will.
But if I had a Campground calledSmuggler's Notch, I for sure
would be doing some kind oftreasure hunt with a berry bottle
of rum somewhere on my property.

Yeah.
There is a resort right up the roadSmuggler's Notch Resort and they go
pretty heavy on the pirate theme.
But we have talked about it.

I think it's waiting there for you.
Yeah.
I think the rum would draw likeprobably packed full weekends.
People, it was hard enough to find.
But yeah, I mean I think we've talkedabout that and I may not wanna hear your
thoughts in a second, but experienceis absolutely, is critical and it
doesn't mean that you have to have anexperience of a million dollar waterpark.
It could be an experience like Willis talking about where you just take a
few extra minutes to email guests theinformation that they might want to

(24:11):
experience in the area that will enhancetheir overall vacation or vacation,
and then invest their perception.
Of what you're offering at your park.
It could be so many different things.
We talk, we'd laugh about a treasure hunt,but it could be anything like that, right?
Something that makes their, makesthem, and we've consulted with so many
clients on this from the marketingside too, of it just needs to be
something that truly sets you apart.

(24:32):
We have clients who call us andthey're like, I wanna spend, I
just talked to somebody last week.
I wanna spend $20,000a month in marketing.
Okay, but what are yougonna do differently?
If we expand your radius out and weshow you Facebook ads and we show you
Google ads to a larger portion of thepopulation, we can spend that money.
But within that circle,what makes you unique?
What is your amenity?
What is your activity?

(24:53):
What is your experience?
What is your standout feature to makethem not just drive 30 minutes, but
drive an hour and a half, two hoursto come to your park to share it on
Instagram, social media, whateverelse that makes you different.
If you don't have that, you couldspend the money, but it's probably
not going to, at a certain point orradius, get you the kind of attention.
Get you attention, getyou the kind of return.

(25:13):
That you want.
So yeah.

You're singing my song now, Brian, I tell my parks all the time.
You have to know whoyou're trying to target.
You can't just say, I want RVersto come, and they will come.

Amanda, what do you think?

So Danforth Bay actually has two sections to our parks.
So we have 600 sites total.
300 of our sites arecatered to empty nesters.
So it's the Bluffs RV Park.
It's for empty nesters, ages 50 and older.
And then the other section of ourpark is another 300 or so sites,
and that's geared towards families.
So when we look at our park, likeon a broader level, we're looking to

(25:52):
cater to two very different audiences.
But essentially we are focused onour proximity to area amenities.
We have a lot of great hiking,biking, outdoorsy offerings
as well as our proximity tooutlet shopping, which is huge.
So we have a lot outside the park tooffer people, but inside the park, for

(26:14):
us, it's a healthy balance of creatingtheme weeks and offerings, some bands and
some activities throughout the day, butnot so much that people can't choose what
they want to do while they're vacationing.
Like you don't want an activity schedulethat's so packed that some, they feel like
every bit of their vacation is plannedout for them or else they're not getting

(26:35):
the full value of their dollar spent.
So we also invest heavily in our amenitiesso people can use them at their leisure.

Yeah.
Another interesting thing thatcame out in this that, that's
relevant to this, Amanda, is we arestarting to see some reaction and
a lot of feedback from pre-nesters.
And pre-nesters are people 35 and below.
'Cause we're strategically target.

You just make up these words.
Sandy, I just need to know beforeyou continue, you just make up words
like pre nester, just on fly or?

No.
I had discover these in research, we didmake up the word to describe 'em, but we
found the people that these are, they're35 and under, they don't have children.
They're kinda like, our empty nesterswhere they want their own space.
But they don't necessarily wanna be withkids, but they do actually merge very well
with the empty nesters, believe it or not.

I think there's something important that Amanda
touched on, and maybe she didn'tintend to touch on it, but like the,
and Will has talked about it too.
I'm interested to explore briefly,like the difference between onsite in
park amenities and whether that's thetraditional swimming pool, miniature
golf, gaga ball, stuff like that.
Or experiences or activitieslike Amanda was talking about
versus the out of park stuff.

(27:48):
Because there for sure is a lot ofbenefit in marketing the outer park
stuff, depending on your location andyour area and what's nearby you, and if
you have hiking trails or biking trails,or if you're in, I like Kansas, but
it's just corn in all directions, right?
Maybe there's not quite as muchto market outside the park as you
would have in some other areas.
But what is the, what's the differenceor what's the waiting there?

(28:09):
Because I, and I'm gonna pick on, I'llprobably get email for this later.
I'm gonna pick on Go RVing for a second.
Go RVing puts together greatcommercials, but when you see Go
RV's commercials, there's like a 0.6
second blip of an RV and the rest is likeall the outdoor stuff you can see and do.
But you can also do that by stayingin a hotel and going to those places.

(28:30):
So how much of this is important froma, I need something that differentiates
my Campground inside the Campgroundto, I'm curating experience nearby.

I can, maybe speak from like a I'm not an operator, but I speak
from my, we have 40,000 sites, so wemanage, so we've go for it aggregating
data, but proximity to attractions,obviously like national parks, things
like that is like the single busbiggest indicator of occupancy that
we can see from looking at the data.
So I think communicating thatit would lead me to believe

(29:04):
that is an obvious thing thatthat every park should be doing.
Smuggler's notch is a perfect example.
It's like a world famous ski area, tonsof outdoor activities that's I'm sure a
massive draw for what you all do will.
And yeah, it's not just, the things thatthey can do within that little bubble but
also things that are driving them there.
And then Sandy, to speak to yourpoint about younger campers that

(29:24):
might not necessarily being,or might not necessarily be
buying RVs at the same rate.
It's not that they're not Camping and notgoing out in nature to, at the same ratio,
but it's just maybe in a different format.
And for them.
Yeah, traveling is no problem.
If the destination is worth is worth it.
And that goes along with justadapting to what your inventory is.

(29:45):
Maybe it's not just RV sites.
I would say another trend we're seeing,which is probably not surprising to
you all, is more and more glampingoperations, where it's probably they
have RV sites, but then they havesome domes and that's gonna call to a
35-year-old that might not want an RVa lot more, or even, primitive Camping.
It's really surprising to me I'll callout one of our parks camp Kona Hills.

(30:05):
They, this is their first yearin business and it's a hundred
percent primitive sites.
I was like, oh man, they'reinfra route awakening.
Turns out I was the one in for rootedawakening because they've had a hundred
percent occupancy every weekend of thesummer in their first year with zero
amenities because it's a beautiful area.
And they've done a really goodjob of marketing to younger people
and, getting Google reviews andbuilding these lists and CRM and,

(30:26):
using technology enabled motions.
But yeah to circle back to yourinitial question, Brian I would say
that I think if you're not advocatingfor the things that just happen
to be around you, whatever it isthen I think you're probably, yeah.
Missing out on.

Is there a balance for that though, I guess is what I'm really
trying to like, and it is different.
I think if you're just an RV park.
If you're an RV park, then you're offeringaccommodation for people who cannot
go stay with their, they could park itin a parking lot behind Holiday Inn,
but it's a terrible experience, right?
They already have an RV, they wannastay in it, so those people aren't
going to be served by the hotels.
But I guess, so maybe this is moreof a question for the people who have

(31:01):
Kevin Rentals, glamping, yurts domesaccommodations that are trying to
convert those people, is there a pointwhere you do need to offer something
at your Campground for those peoplethat sets you apart from the hotel?
If you're all around the nationalpark, let's use your example.

Yeah so one of the things, I think this came out in the
KOA research for this year, I'm notsure, but one of the things I found,
if you are strategically targetingfamilies with young children, it's
better to have the amenities on site.
They are less likely to leave andgo somewhere else when they have
small children because of the painof packing 'em all up and taking off.

(31:39):
But those amenities can be very simple.
It can be a blow up bouncy house, right?
It doesn't have to be an expensive ahundred thousand dollars swimming pool.
It can be things that you bring in to do.
For instance, the park that I was tellingyou about, the sandcastle competition,
they don't have a swimming pool.
They have the basic amenities.
We took a field and we had.
Sand brought in, and thisperson that puts this on, she

(32:02):
knew exactly where to order it.
She was already getting discounts.
They brought it in, put it in there, andthen we just spread it out to go even
in between the grass when it was over.
And so we didn't have that there.
We created it and the cost was allcovered by the cost of the state.
Yeah.
So though for what you're saying aboutamenities on site I think it's young

(32:23):
kids, and then beyond that, I thinkit's what people's preferences are.
And then of course, if you're talking55 plus, that's a whole nother realm.
And I don't even go there.
I'm too young for that.

Robert, what do you think?
Do you have a variety of differentproperties all across the country?

Yeah I'm gonna take the, maybe the opposite side of the,
this conversation and throw out abit of a warning that if you start
chasing start chasing experiences ormore appropriately start changing,
chasing, I would say the accommodationtypes, that can be dangerous, right?
So if you're in RV park, great.

(33:00):
If you are a park that has allprimitive Camping, great, right?
But if you become an, I think wetalked about this last week or on
our last meeting, you're RV park andthen you want to add one or two domes
so you can have that new experience.
You haven't added just one ortwo domes to get new experience.
You've now added housekeeping maintenance.
You've added a whole immense,so I do think that there is.

(33:27):
We wanna always be attractingas many people as possible, but
it's also probably pretty okay.
And you have to be very careful fromthe business side of it to make sure
that you are attracting the guest andcustomer that you want and can handle.
And so if we subdivided this and thoughtabout it from a guest perspective,
regardless of their motivation,there's really two types of guests.
Guests that come with their own stuff,that's RVers, tent campers, overlanders,

(33:51):
and there's guests that come with nothing.
And that's glamping, domes, teepees,hotels, motels, all that type of stuff.
So if we, if you can make sure thatwith the experiences you're providing
or staying in one of those twochannels, I think that's awesome.
But if you're trying to provide anexperience that then requires you
to serve both customers, either youhave to be a very large resort like,

(34:15):
probably that Amanda's running and beable to equipped and have that stuff or.
Or the negative side of it was youmay get the customers, but you'll be
just buried in the expense of payrolland housekeeping and cleaning and
maintenance and so on and so forth.
So keeping those two segments separated,are you serving guests that bring their
own stuff and that's your traditionaltent Camping, RV or et cetera.

(34:37):
Or you're serving guests that you'recompeting then with the hotel.
So we're talking about kindof competition with the hotel.
I think that could be a mistake if you'retrying to take the hotel customer and
turn 'em into a RV, Campground, glampingcustomer if you're not prepared for it.

That's a very good point.
Yeah.

I totally agree with that.
Totally.
And I have seen that played out frommy big parks to my little parks.
I actually was a part of buildingone of the largest RV parks
that's out there right now.
And they literally startedout with, they were gonna have
600 RV sites and 400 cabins.
And by the time we got to completion, wehad reduced it to a hundred cabins and

(35:17):
turned and created 300 premium RV sitesthat had outdoor kitchens and tiki huts.
And those sell out all the time.
They never have occupancy problems withthose year round because everybody wants
to, and there's no cleaning for those.
There's no none of that kind of stuff.
So I totally agree with that, Robert.

(35:37):
You're right.

Think I was looking at, oh, sorry, Brian.

No, go ahead.

Was what Sandy was getting to is I think that we have to try to
hook people into the Camping industrybefore they become hotel people.
In other words, we want 'em to find outthat the Camping experience is a great
way when they're younger and then staywith it as they go through the phases

(36:04):
of getting larger and larger unitsand maybe eventually just settling
down to be seasonal at some place.
But we've gotta get those groups in beforethey, they find their brand, want them
to end up having Camping, be their brandand their go-to not going to a hotel.

Yeah.
And we really learned a lot aboutthat during COVID because we had so
many people buy a rig, not becausethey were interested in Camping, but
because they were going stir crazy.
And so a big initiative that I wasinvolved in after that was how do
we keep these people from dumpingall those rigs back onto the market?
Because the last thing that the RVindustry wanted was all of their new sales

(36:52):
getting eaten up by the people dumping.
And we were pretty successfulin making that transition and
getting people to stay Camping.
But it was an education process.
It wasn't just natural.
They didn't just immediately go there.
Their first thought wasCOVID is over, sell the rig.
So we did that by helping themunderstand, how they could take their

(37:13):
unit and turn it into a revenue stream.
So we booked them with RV shareor Outdoorsy or any of the, their
peer-to-peer sharing networks.
And those things really, theyliked that it helped them pay for
their rig and it kept 'em Camping.

Where is the piece of all this, that like a software
system like Park can help enhance theexperience for the guest Rylan tie
it all together for the operators.

Can you repeat that question just one more time?

Where's the piece of, we're the, we're a park software, like we've had
camps spot on the show before new book.
We've had a lot of otherplayers like your, obviously
you've a couple hundred parks.
Not small.
Where's the piece or role that theCampground software can play in
helping tie this together for boththe guest experience to understand
what I have, what I offer, what Ican upsell to, what I can add on but
then the operator to help understandwhat do I need to do differently

(38:01):
or better, or not change at all.

Yeah, definitely.
So I think just the core software needs tobe, easy to use for the operator so that
it becomes like something that they wannatake full advantage of as opposed to okay,
I need to just enter something into here.
So that's the core of it, butthen layering on technology
enabled demand generation iswhat I guess I would call it.
So it starts from the get-go, whichis, with whatever the provider is,

(38:25):
having online bookings, but also makingsure that you get listed on all the
directories and and RVing apps, that'slike day one, when we work with park.
And then, even things likehaving a self checkin option.
So if someone's not in the office,especially for smaller parks where.
It's Will, and your wife, you're theones that are managing it many times.
You wanna go out to dinner?
Great.
If someone shows up, they should beable to scan, pay, go right to a site.

(38:47):
That's I think just technologyenabled processes are a baseline.
And then the, I think the layers to addon top of that, if you wanna go above
me beyond and build an exceptionalbusiness is things like, sending automated
reviews, asking for or automated message,excuse me, asking for Google reviews.
We know that drives probably 70%of local SEO and organic traffic.

(39:09):
Especially in the AI era.
We know that Google reviews are thebiggest driver of, how folks are gonna
find you, especially younger campers thatare just looking for something cool to
do, within a couple hours drive of 'em.
And then I think you mentioned Amanda,something to this effect maintaining
UpToDate CRM and sending out coupons, weknow that creates a surge of demand and
that's something that probably 80, 90%of campgrounds are not doing, they're

(39:32):
just operating at a certain level.
And that's fine.
But if you want to fully Yeah, fillout that occupancy, then it's using
technology to, to do those additionallevels that not everyone is doing.

Where do you envision a software and I'm giving you open here,
whatever, wherever you wanna takeit, whatever direction you wanna take
it, but like where do you envisionthe software piece of a PMS coming in
versus a CRM that's separate versusmarketing that's separate versus
listing that's separate versus thewebsite that's separate for somebody.
Like where do you envision, ideally,whether you have it today or you

(40:07):
might have it in the future, or youmay never go in that direction, but
where do you think the software reallycan help change that for operators?

Yeah.
It's a fair question.
I think, I personally thinkthere's actually should be a line
in the sand between what is youroperation, operational software.
Yes, it's the final conversion pointfor what's, where bookings are being
driven and where, money is changinghands but a line in the sand between
that and your demand generation.
You are the only one that fullyunderstands your business to
build a beautiful website andto spin up, Google ad campaigns.

(40:37):
If you're not doing that I think you'releaving a lot of money on the table.
The cost per click isvery low for our industry.
And like we see time and timeagain when we hand off a park to a
website or marketing partner, theiroccupancy goes from 20% to 80%.
And so I think someone that is just livingand breathing in the demand generation
side is actually probably the right, modeof operation if you are of a decent size,

(41:00):
let's say 50 sites or more less than that,so long as you're doing just baseline, the
things that we'll set up with all of ourparks, like I said, getting you on all of
the apps and setting up, flyers for afterhours check-ins, just baseline things
you're already gonna be ahead of a lotof the campgrounds that might not be even
have a website or might not even reallybe participating in the, the internet
age, which is actually still a lot asas I'm sure you all know, and those are

(41:23):
the ones that, we as a trend are seeing.
They're either aging out and tryingto sell their Campground and someone
buys and says, whoa, this obviouslyis not the right way to run a business
in 2025 with a massive stack of paper.
Or they, hand it to their kidsand their kids say, I also don't
wanna be running it this way.
In which case, yeah, it's just some likebaseline technology and, enablement.
We'll get, you, get you pretty far andthen, you can hand it off to the experts

(41:45):
if you wanna do something more advanced.

So we've talked a little bit about the type of
people that come to the properties.
We've talked a little bit aboutwhat they're looking for or what we
want them to look for in the areaon the amenities of the Campground,
the experiences, things like that.
How do you look at this, will, like, whenyou were starting Smugglers Notch, I think
somebody said it was two years ago, right?
How do you look at what do I wannaprovide as I start my Campground?

When we first started I used to have I used to have
like panic attacks thinking about howwe didn't have any amenities, I was
like, oh my God, we don't have a pool.
What are people gonna do?
And then I actually talked with Sandy,I worked with Sandy a bit in the
beginning, and and yeah, I don't know,did some research and the further we
got into it, it was like, if you'rearound, if you're in an area with a lot

(42:32):
of attractions, you don't necessarilyneed to have all these amenities.
And a million things to do.
I'm sorry, what whatwas the question again?

You're gonna test my memory now.
Yeah, I know.
I really don't belong hostingthe show live in front of people.
I think my question was geared alongthe lines of as you began to start
Smuggler's Notch, and you talkedabout your work with Sandy and you
figured out some of those things.
So I think you were on the righttrack answering the question.

Yeah.

But how do you decide, this is where I want to go?
Is it a, how do you decide you wanta pool or you don't wanna pool or
you want amenities, or you don't wantamenities, you wanna focus on the local
area versus experiences or events?

I think, based off of of your guests and your
customers, I rarely have people,upset that there's not a pool.
As we grow and we build, we do have plans.
Like we, we bought a property right onRoute 1 0 8 which has, it was an old,
there's nothing has been here sincethe seventies, but luckily there was

(43:27):
an old tennis court on the property.
So we actually just resurfacedthat and we're gonna do pickleball.
Between, we're doing some pickleball.
We're doing we actually have we get alot of disc golfers coming here to play.
There's two very prestigious disc golfcourses right up the road from us.
So we're actually gonna put in anine hole kind of pitch and putt,

(43:47):
disc golf course around the property.
And we don't have, we don't necessarilyhave a ton of room to, build a
pool or do all this other stuff.
And then, in Vermont it's difficult toget some of those permits and get the
permission to build that kind of stuff.
But just slowly adding over time andjust based off what the what the guests

(44:07):
are after, I want to build more ofa communal area, like a, fire pit.
I got some old chair lifts that I'dlike to hang around the Campground where
people can sit and enjoy themselves.
But yeah.

I just wanna just maybe add to that just a small bit
that, like what you were saying,will, is what I always recommend.
It's like Lego blocks.
You don't have to do it all at once.
I talk to new owners that arelike you mentioned, just like
freaking out do I need wifi?
They quoted me this crazy number,and they're like, and I'm like,
all right, take a deep breath.
You don't need wifi.
Sure.
That would be nice.
And maybe someday, you'll havethe funds to do that, but just

(44:39):
add building blocks as you go.
That's the right way to do it.
And then you can follow feedback.
Community fire pits is a cool one.
One tip I will give is that what is it?
S'mores kits sell likehotcakes especially.
Oh yeah.
Community fire pit.
That's a random tip.
But anyways, sorry Brian.

You sound like Jeff.
A cautious patient.
This is Jeff, my inner Jeffthat I'm thinking about.
Take a cautious, based approach.
Just build things little by little.
I wanna build it all Jeff, all at once.
I wanna just everything there.

Why can't I do that?
I always say build the kind of park thatyou're gonna enjoy managing, especially
if you're a small park owner, right?
And then let, and then market to theguests that you hope you can host.
But then let your guests tellyou during that first year what
they want and who's coming.
And that'll define all that.
And so it really goes to whatRylan's saying too, is you

(45:30):
don't have to do it all at once.
You can add it over time as your guestbegins to refine who you need to become.

Is it just you asking your guests that question though, right?
Because there are certainly, there's some,I'm not saying you shouldn't, you should
absolutely take surveys of your guests.
You should ask them oncheckout, what can I do better?
What would you like to see added?
What are the different types ofthings we could, give you here that
would make your experience evenbetter today than it was before?
But like Robert, take you forexample, like when you're acquiring

(45:56):
parks, when you're managing newproperties and you made a very good
point about how, and we've talkedabout that on the show before, maybe
not as eloquently as you put it.
But we've talked about the need to focuson do one thing that you do well, I
think is what I'm hearing you say, right?
The RVs or the and May you saidother things too, but if you're
an RV park, do the RV park.
If you're a glamping parkglamping, do the glamping.

(46:17):
If you're tent Camping,do the tent Camping.
Not to say that you can't do bothand do two things well, but you gotta
master one and then move on to thesecond and then have a big enough, plan
in place and all that kind of stuff.
So how do you look at this, Robert?
Is you're looking to acquire new parksor manage new parks, or, and you're
coming in and you're saying, all right,I'm looking at this property, they're,
let's just pretend they're an RV park.

(46:37):
They know their target audience well,or they don't know their target audience
well, they know what they're goingafter or they don't, they have a plan
or they don't, they've got amenities.
Like how does thatprocess to Robert Preston?

Yeah.
First thanks Brian forhaving me on the show.
'cause after this I'm gonna have tohop off and hit a company meeting.
So as we're looking through this,if frankly from a buyer perspective,
from an investor perspective.
If those are misaligned andthey haven't got it figured
out that's a good thing, right?
That's an opportunity.
That's something we can fix and changeand implement as we go in, and that

(47:08):
creates value and that, creates a return.
So the way that we look at that,and I would tie it back to totality
of it, is we're rightfully we'revery concerned about the guest, but
our company on the management side,they're not, believe or not the guest
is not our first priority, right?
The first priority is theteam member, the operator.

(47:29):
And so if we do that and you makedecisions based on those lens,
that will help prevent you fromdoing this scatterbrain approach
of what does the guests want?
And there, because I'll take itback to the glamping example.
If the team member is our top priorityand we're doing whatever we can to make
not their job easier, but their jobmore efficient and more effective so

(47:52):
they can serve the guests better, right?
Which makes the property better,which makes the returns better.
So if that's our starting point,then the question comes up, if
we add this one dome, almost oneglamping tent, and I've got a team
of four or six, can they handle it?
Can they handle all this newhousekeeping, all this new stuff?
And that'll help us, again, make betterdecisions so that we don't provide a

(48:17):
new experience or a new way of stayingthat would be perfect for the guest,
but then the team can't support it.
And if the team can't support it, thenthe guest is gonna have an less than
desirable experience, which then is goingto make Camping in general less desirable.
Because if it's their firsttime, their first go, then we're
holding the responsibility ofsetting that poor impression.

(48:40):
And then, it's a trick on effect.
And Sandy and I have talked aboutthis quite a bit, if you expand that
out to the macro level, that's theproblem with the industry is the
manufacturers and the dealers and thecampgrounds and the software systems,
and no one's really working together.
So if anyone has a negativeexperience at any point in that
path, it affects all of us.

(49:01):
Yet we're choosing essentially rightnow, exception of Sandy Saw Commander
we're really choosing to ignore that.
And we've gotta remember that, ourguest, this is generally almost always
a vacation, a luxury unlike a car.
So if someone has a bad experience withHonda, they'll go buy a Ford, right?
If someone has a bad experience with.
Jayco, they'll just be done with RVing.

(49:23):
And so that's a big difference.
Or they have a bad experienceat one my park, they'll just
say, sorry, all RV parks stink.
And so I'm rambling andgoing along diatribe.
But if we keep,
if we put some metrics in placeto help safe focus, it's not about
being just good at one thing.
I think it's about making surethat your staff can really serve

(49:45):
the guests well in what you do.
And if you can, that goes wide asyou want to, as you want to go.
But if you can't, you should probably keepit to the, to that point that your team
can be most effective and most efficient.

It's a really good way of thinking of it.
I've never heard it.
And if you have to jump off, that's,thank you for being here, Robert.
I appreciate it.
It's a really good way of thinkingabout it though, from your employee team
members' perspective of, that is goingto trickle down if you talked about
to the guests and to their experience.
And what if they're runningaround even you add something
like you're talking about withlaundry or even something easier.
Where they're adding this totheir schedule and they were
already working seven hours a day.

(50:19):
Now they have to work eight and maybeskip half their lunch, and then they're
stressed out and then they maybe snapat a guess the wrong way or have the
wrong tone of voice and that leads to anegative review, which leads to a, yeah.
So it's for sure a, I think maybe a lot ofowners know that, but don't think of it in
the way that you suggested to approach it.
And so thank you.
I appreciate you sharing.

We've made a lot of mistakes, so that's how we got here.

Yeah, that's the only way to get to where you are.

Thank you guys.
Have a good day.

Bye, Robert.

What do you think, Amanda, of all this, how do you
decide what type of guests that youguys have, what you wanna add next?
What you suggest to the ownershipto put in or not put in?

So for us, I think it's mostly about knowing your product, right?
So in addition to engaging with yourguests and engaging with your staff, we
also allow for our staff to stay at ourproperty and really use the facilities and
amenities and let us know that, becauseyou're not always gonna get the most
accurate feedback from guests, right?
Like you hope that you will,but your staff is gonna give

(51:22):
you pretty accurate feedback.
So we allow for them to comestay and play and let us know
what works well and what doesn't.
We pull them frequently tofind out, where they see the
company in five years, 10 years.
What they think would addto the value of the park.
And we do the same thing with our guests.
After each visit, we send them asurvey that they can fill out as well.

(51:42):
But it also is knowing yourstrengths and weaknesses.
So wear rate on the lake.
So we do a bunch of boatrentals, canoes, kayaks.
We make it easy for people toenjoy the lake that we have.
We also play to our weaknesses.
We have a huge park, 185 acres.
There's lots of hills,so we rent golf carts.

(52:03):
We make it easy for our guests to be ableto explore the entire park regardless
of whether or not they have mobilityissues or if they don't have a vehicle
that's conducive to exploring the park.

Jeff, how do you approach this from a consulting standpoint?

I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question.

How do you approach it from a consulting standpoint, Jeff?
If you're advising a uponcotton what to do and how to do.

One of the things I find is most Campground owners
will spend themselves into obliviontrying to keep up with the Joneses
instead of actually trying to take alook at their park and their guest.
Will, you're doing a great job ofwhat you're doing and, if you add
something, make sure that your returnon that investment is gonna pay you off

(52:54):
sooner and not drain your cash flow.
Or that if you go into debt, that you'regonna definitely be able to cover the debt
and it's going to increase your cash flow.
So when you take that, you takethe customers and we always
recommend interviewing yourcustomers, talking to your guests.

(53:17):
Keeping track of the data, what's outthere, going to the shows, learning
what new products might be out there.
The other thing good about going to theconferences that are put on by various
states and national, you get to talkto other Campground owners and the
more you know, we're a strange groupbecause it's hard to make a living as a

(53:41):
consultant because everybody is so freewith the information about what they
did right in their campgrounds that thebest learning sources, the hallways of
any conference you ever go to, peoplelove to talk about their Campground,

but how do you avoid that trap?
So I'm hearing you say keepingup with the Joneses, and I agree
with you that this is a problem.
There's two things that I think Ithink owners need a little bit more
clarity and maybe that's from you.
Or other people on this call.
But how do I avoid that trapof keeping up with the Joneses?
'cause there's two things that you saidthat almost helped me fall into that trap.
One is going to conferences.

(54:19):
You sure for sure shouldgo to conferences.
You for sure should network.
I'm not suggesting thatyou shouldn't do that.
It's very valuable.
However, if you talk to all the Campgroundowners who have done, like I, I put in
a Gaga ball pit and that was amazing.
And you talk to six of them andyou're like, do I keep up with the
Joneses and do a Gaga ball pit toowithout understanding my audience and
who they are and whether they wantit and all those kinds of things.
And then the second piece is, I'mgonna pick on you Rylan and myself too.

(54:41):
'cause I'm a vendor too.
I do marketing for parksfor 500, some parks.
But if you go to a trade show and allthe vendors are pitching the latest,
brightest, new shiniest thing that thepark down the street has, is that serving
you well with keeping up with the Joneses?
Sometimes it is, but not always.
You started the conversation, Jeff,so I'm curious what you call that.

Everything has, everything that you do has to fit with your goals.
And it goes back to one of the thingsthat I preach is it comes from the EOS
system, but basically everything youdo in your business has to point to the
goals that you're trying to achieve.

(55:23):
So yeah, a gaga pit isgonna cost you 1200 bucks.
What's the return on that investment?
Who's gonna use it?
Is it gonna draw more people?
Is it a family activity that peopleare gonna enjoy and be happy with?
That's a low cost one.
Now will, if you're looking at puttingin a pool for the 60 site Campground,

(55:46):
I agree with Sandy, I wouldn't do it.
There's no cost benefit.
There's so many other things thatyou could do that would be way less
than a pool that are gonna give.
They guest a better experience.
So you have to weigh out what your cashflow is, what your debt limit is, and

(56:08):
take a look at that along with your guest.
Everybody, I wish I owned aLamborghini, but I don't, I own
a Kia because it's practical.
So it's the same thing in your Campground.
Yeah, you wanna be a Lamborghini, but ifyour budget puts you down at buying a Kia,
stay there and be the best Kia you can be.

(56:30):
And that's what you've gotta look atis how do I become my best Campground,
not somebody else's best Campground.
What's good for you?
What's good for your market?
And I always tell like the smallercampgrounds, you're generally running
around and it goes back to Robert's point.

(56:52):
You already work 80 hours a week?
Do you wanna work 82?
If you put something in, it's gonnacause I like working 82, but yeah.
And Sandy works 102 and Brian,you work fulltime 24 hours with
your stupid AI robot that I talkto all the time thinking it's you.

(57:13):
What is that thing's name again?
He has his own for when you writehim emails and stuff, that Chats
back with me and then all of asudden I realize it's not him.
Okay.

I always wanna get really cheeky when I get one
of those emails back, but I haven'thad the courage to do it yet.

Then I put some, the way I find out is I put
something totally nonsensical, but.

I'm gonna go and prove it now,
going, doing, but yeah, like Ithink you bring up good points.
Although I am picturing you, Jeff,in a Lamborghini with your hair
blowing back behind, you're goingdown the highway at hundred 20 miles.

Yeah, I do own a race car, but it's a Subaru, not a Lamber.

Alright, let's we're a couple minutes over.
I wanna be cognizanteverybody's time here.
So we wanna give final thoughts, justany final thoughts and where can they
learn more about your properties.
Amanda?

I'm sorry?

You wanna go first?
Just any final thoughts you have and thenwhere can they learn more about the two
properties or that you're representing?

Yeah for sure.
So I guess in closing, I would sayjust to choose your price point.
What do you want your, theprice point of your park to be?
Because you can have all of the best,latest, greatest everything, but then are
you going to be affordable for your area?
So that's something that we alwayslook at as we're making decisions
as well, because we don't wannaprice ourselves out of the market.

(58:37):
We wanna be very family friendly.
We want to cater to the people that arejust introducing themselves to Camping.
So that's always at the forefront for us.
And in terms of where you can findinformation, I always refer to
our website, so danforthbay.com.
We put a lot of effort into making iteasy for our guests to learn more about
us, even, after we're not staffing callsfor the day and that sort of thing.

(59:02):
Yeah.
And thanks for having me.

Yeah, thanks for being here, Will.

Yeah, as far as finding out more about us
smugglersnotchrvvillage.com,
we have a whole lot on there about,where to go, what to do in the area.
So I think it's really helpfulfor some of our guests to like
research ahead of time and find out.
What they want do while they come visit.
But yeah that's.

Any final thoughts about our discussion or,

No.
First podcast yeah.
Thanks for having me.

This is my first podcast too.
Don't worry about it.
Thank you.
Great.
Great.
Jeff,

The final thoughts would be just it, you have to take a look at it.
It's your Campground, it has yourpersonality and try to make it your own.
Just like looking at what guests youwanna do, what rate structure you
wanna do, who you want to bring in.
And I've owned a lot of campgrounds.
Every one of 'em had anindividual personality.

(01:00:03):
I'm a great systems guy and thoughtI could systematize everything, but
it, it doesn't work out that way.
With campgrounds.
I can do the internals, butthe externals, which is your
guest, can't be systematized.
So keep that in mind.
Don't don't chase everybody else.
Chase your own dream for your Campground.

Brian Searl (01:00:24):
And campstrategy.com.

Jeff Hoffman (01:00:26):
Yes.
campstrategy.com.
I forget the plug all the time.

Thank you for being here as always.
Jeff.
Sandy?

Sandy Ellingson (01:00:36):
Oh, come back to me.
Let Rylan go first.

Ry I want you to not tell me your final you tell me your
final thoughts, but I also haveanother question for you briefly.
I want you to tell me away what isthe one thing that sets park software
apart, and you can't say ease of use.

Rylan Blowers (01:00:53):
Okay.
Let's say that it's always a hundredpercent free for the Campground.
That's the number one thing.
And then final thoughts would bethat, yeah, I, I agree with all,
all this and thank you so much forhaving me on and for everything that
you all do to guide the industry.
It's pretty cool that to bea part of this conversation.
Yeah, I love what Jeff was sayingabout de-risking yourself along the

(01:01:14):
way, whether it's a campgrounds or,anything else in life just de-risk
yourself and make, responsibledecisions and build great businesses
and you all are evidence to that.
Yeah, appreciate it again andyou can find us at parkwith.us
is our domain.
But yeah, I look forward tohopefully chatting again soon.

Awesome.
Thanks Rylan.
Appreciate you being here.
Sandy, you have a good answernow that I saved you last.
I think.

I know.
And you know what?
I'm never plugging myself because thepeople that need me seem to find me.
And so I'm good with that.
But I have to say that this episodehas blessed my heart 'cause we have
so many young people on here andit's so important to me to know that
there's, that I can leave a legacy thatothers are gonna pick up and carry.
Amanda, I love listening toyou and what you're doing.

(01:01:59):
Will, I love you.
Rylan, I'm just learning about you.
So y'all, you guys havereally made my day.
I just want you to know that.
And Brian, you're alwaysat the top my list.
Or

Jeff?
Jeff's young too.

Jeff is in my zone and you guys are in another zone.
That's why I didn't single him out.

I'm not.

But he knows I love him

Look at my bald head.
I'm up there.
I got a lot of gray hair.
Look at this stuff.
I'm really sophisticated.
Old.

I was gonna leave you out 'cause you are at that crest, right?

I'm old at a new level this year.

All right.
Where can they find moreabout what you do, Sandy?

This.

I know they're gonna find you anyway, but where can they
find out more about you generally?
Yeah.
What you do?

Me?
sandyellingson.com
or outdoorhospitality.com.

Cool.
Thank you so much, guys.
Appreciate you for joining us.
Another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
For those of you who are not sickand tired of hearing about me yet, or
from me we have another podcast comingup in, I don't know, 45 minutes or
so with myself and Scott Bahr We'regonna talk about food, retail, the
future of that, how we can implementsome of that stuff using futuristic
technology and some other things thatare available to you guys today that
would help you maybe do that differentlythan most people have thought about.

(01:03:09):
So we're gonna talk about that,dive into some data with Scott
and all kinds of different things.
If not, then we'll see you next weekfor another episode of MC Fireside
Chats, thank you to Will, Jeff, Rylan,Amanda and Sandy, and take care guys.
We'll see you later.

Rylan Blowers (01:03:20):
Alright.

Thank you, Brian.

Amanda Buswell (01:03:21):
Thank you.

Always a pleasure.

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MC Fireside Chats - August 20th, 2025

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