MC Fireside Chats - August 6th, 2025 - MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Searl (00:46):
Everybody tuned another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks.
You guys can see the behind the scenes.
I like literally came in andpopped in five and a half
seconds before the show started.
So it's been a fun morning for me.
All kinds of excitement.
And who would have itany other way, right?
Rafael, you know whatI'm talking about, right?
You have those mornings.
Kristin knows what I'm talking about.
Scott, Nick, Simon.

Rafael Correa (01:05):
Wouldn't be late to my funeral.

Yeah, those are the fast mornings, aren't they?
Wake up in the morning, you're like,I know everything's under control.
It's peaceful, calm, and thenjust, Nope, nope, it's not.
Anyway, super excited to be here foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
We've got our week one episode here.
We're gonna talk aboutindustry trends and insights.
Got a lot of data here.
Our guru, wise old wizard, old.

(01:27):
Scott

Scott Bahr (01:28):
Hey.
Easy.

Dye your hair, man.
You gotta dye your hair.
I'm growing my hair longs

Scott Bahr (01:32):
to

I'll pay you to dye your hair different colors for the show.
We could sell a sponsorship.
Like air paint, like somethinglike your goatee or something.
Like a logo of a company.
Kristin would you sponsor that?

Scott Bahr (01:43):
Put a logo on my forehead.
Right there.

Kristin Andersen Garwood (01:45):
He's got the beautiful hair color that
would take to any, like purpleor blue or something like that.

Yes, true.
And I make fun of him, but I'm bald.
I just shave it 'cause myhair's completely gray too.
Not all of us have Rafael'sbudget to color our hair, so
Welcome everybody.
All right.
What do we gotta talk about today?
We've got a couple interesting guests.
My dog needs to get up here.
Hello.
Say hi, this is Riley.
She's a lap dog

Riley.

We have Nick Harrington on here, the Communications Manager
at South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks.
Is that the right order?

Nick Harrington (02:14):
Yes.

Game Fish and Parks.
Fish Game and Parks.

Yep.
Nick Harrington, CommunicationsManager, Game, Fish, and Parks.
And I did not know that my hair,forehead would be for sale in this show.
So thanks everyone for having meon and hopefully I do well, but
not so well that anyone tries tobuy a forehead sponsorship from me.

Yeah, I've been trying for years, man.
Like I got a big, huge forehead.
Like I even got this characteristicsecond brain bump up here that
I've been trying to sell a logo on.
Nobody wants to take me up, so don't worryabout it, is what I'm trying to say, Nick.

Sounds good.

I don't think you're in any danger.
Kristin from Sage Outdoor Advisory,welcome to special guests.
And then we have our regularwonderful recurring guest.
Eleonore, this is your first show withus where we bumped you around and moved
you from the RV industry to this newshow, industry trends and insights.
So excited to dive into alittle bit of that with you.
And then our regular guest, Rafael, Simonfrom Camp Map and Scott Bahr, of course.

(03:03):
I wanna just go around the roomand introduce ourselves real quick.
Do you wanna start, Eleonore,since it's your first kind of
week on with the new crowd?

Eleonore Hamm (03:09):
Sure.
Thank you for having me.
My name's Eleonore Hamm.
I'm President of the RVDealers Association of Canada.
We're based in lovely Vancouverand we represent the dealer
body across the country.
And we'll have probably some stats, likethe information that we share is usually
generally on the retail side and what'shappening in Canada for our dealer body.

Awesome.
Excited to have you here, Eleonore.
Rafael, you wanna go?

Yeah.
Rafael Correa, President, CFOof Blue Water Hospitality.
We are a Campground, RV Resortdeveloper, owner and manager.
We manage over 60 RVresorts across the US of A.

Welcome Rafael.
Pleasure to have you here as always.
Simon.

Simon Neal (03:50):
Hi, I'm Simon, the founder and CEO of Camp Map.
We help outdoor hospitality locationslike campgrounds, clamping sites, RV
parks, improve marketing and guestexperience with professional digital maps.

Simon, do you have any parks in Canada yet or is it
just the US that you've expand?
Obviously more than the US but

Simon Neal (04:09):
No we have a couple we're chatting to.
We don't have any signed up yet.

We gotta get you a park in Canada, man.
I'll make it my mission.
Don't worry about it.
I got you covered.
Scott Bahr.

Simon Neal (04:17):
Thanks.

Scott Bahr (04:18):
Scott Bahr, the President of Cairn Consulting Group.
We're a market research and analysisorganization and, I won't even
go any further because I'll endup talking the whole time, so.

That's fine.
We're all smarter because of it.
Scott.
We know this.
How long have you known each other?
The more you talk, the more we learn.
And then our two special guests.
Nick, you wanna go first?

Yep.
Nick Harrington, CommunicationsManager with Game Fish and Parks.
I'm here at Pierce, South Dakota,the middle of the state, and
I get to work with all of ourstate parks, recreation areas.
I know a little bit about a lotof 'em but I get to work closely.
Our marketing for our state parks,getting folks out there visiting,
visitor experience, I have myhands in a little bit of all of it.
So really excited to be on the show andI wanna thank everybody for having me.

Yeah, I appreciate you being here.
I want to talk to you moreabout state parks in a second.
Obviously that's what you're here to do.
But I like, I have a desperate needto know all the beautiful things
in South Dakota 'cause my memory isscarred from coming to South Dakota
and staying in a hotel, which wedon't wanna talk about evil hotels.
I got bedbugs in South Dakota,when I went through there I don't
know, seven, eight years ago.
So I'm all state parks, all fish.
We gotta let more people know aboutthe great things that happened

(05:25):
here instead of in the evil hotels.
That sounds great.
Kristin Sage Outdoor Advisory.

Hey.
Hello.
Yes.
Vice President at Sage Outdoor Advisory.
We do all things feasibilitystudy in appraisals for anything
outdoor hospitality related fromRV resorts to glamping to the new
term landscape hotels in Marinas.
In the past three years, we've doneover 300 feasibility studies appraisals

(05:52):
across the country and in Canada.
Yeah.

Awesome.
Welcome Kristin.
I'm excited to have you here and dive intoa little bit more about what Sage does
and the things you guys have going on.
As we do normally in the beginning ofthe show, we tos it to our recurring
guests and say, is there anythingthat's come across your desk in the
last month since we've been together?
I know Eleonore's your first show,but similar thing that we would
do with RVDA right on the RV show.
Is there anything you guys thinkwe should be talking about?

Simon Neal (06:18):
I have something bit different, some environmental
risks based on what's happeningin Catalonia and Northern Spain.
If you wanna chat aboutthat at some point.
What we see.
Yeah.

Give us some clarity.
What's going on?

Simon Neal (06:31):
It was from an article in March this year.
So the previous year in October,they had a lot of flooding problems
in Catalonia, in the campgrounds,and obviously this year that's
been happening again in the US.
So it's it's a thing that's popped upand they're taking it very seriously.
Earlier this year, they acted uponwhat happened last time, and basically

(06:53):
they've identified that outta the 396campgrounds in that region, about 151
of them are at risk from flooding.
And based on that, high risklevel, they've then gone ahead
and put legislation in place.
So it's now a requirement for everyCampground to do a study on their layouts,
where the facilities are, and ensure thatif the art risk, there's measures to be

(07:15):
taken in place to deal with that risk.
And the main focus of that is two things.
One is to protect people, of course.
And the other thing is also theeconomic side of it, because, as
long as always the disaster people,it's an economic impact as well.
And they wanna avoid both of those things.
So in addition to the law, they'vealso put together a budget so

(07:36):
people can apply to this budgetfor funding to do these studies.
And they're really pushing theimplementation of different technologies,
modern technologies to do this analysis.
So it's a pretty nice article andthey're taking it very seriously now.
And it's starting togo into implementation.
So that's one side of it.
And the other side of it issome of the large marketplaces

(07:57):
in Europe actually do bookings.
And there's one in particularthat does ratings for Campground.
So they're independent ratingsand they're actually gonna start
including environmental factorsin the rating system as well.
It's two fronts coming in.
One is, the danger side andthe other is actually, what's
good for business these days?

Let's start with danger and then let's go to the good thing, right?
'Cause I think that for those whohaven't been paying attention to
the industry as much as we have, Idon't know what happened in Catalonia
but I'm assuming something similarto what happened, the tragedy in
Texas here was it a month ago now?
Something like that where the flashflooding came and it was mostly, as
I understand it, impacting camps,children's camps and things like that.

(08:38):
There were a couple privateparks that were touched, but
something similar to that.
Simon?

Simon Neal (08:42):
Yeah, basically it was a very wet season.
Several different flood events.
And towns got impacted, but alsoparticularly the campgrounds
'cause they're exposed.

I think we got a lot of great minds and that's why I wanna go with
this topic for a second on this podcast.
Rafael, I know you ownsome resorts in Texas.
I don't think you own you, sorry.
You don't own in Texas.
You manage in Texas, right?
I don't think anything near theriver and the incident that happened.
Correct.
I think they're all.

We did have a park that was impacted pretty significantly.

Okay.
So yeah, I'm interested to talkto you about that and then like
kind of development and what goesinto that process and how do we
think about the risk versus rewardbecause I think it's different.
Like it's not different, but it'sespecially prevalent in our industry,
outdoor hospitality, glamping, campingbecause we wanna be as close to
those natural features as possible.
Put me up next to the riverbank, put mycabin right there on the water, but then

(09:33):
there's also in some places, in someinstances, much more danger than others.
And so I'm interested to hearyour take on that, Rafael.
Maybe your take, Kristin, asyou do feasibility studies.
Scott, if you have somedata on that kind of stuff.
So why don't we just start there?
Who wants to kick it off?

Yeah, Texas is, it's been a double-edged sword for a lot of folks.
The freedom that you have to buildbusiness in Texas is such a, in some
ways is a beautiful thing, but in otherways can be very problematic, right?
One from overdevelopment and two,maybe from developing areas that
may or maybe shouldn't be developedas this kind of case of point, so.
Obviously, there's legislationnow in place about what can

(10:12):
go where and we expect that tohave some significant impact.
So it's interesting that you'reseeing a similar impact all
the way over there in Europe.
I expect that the tragedies like thatforce us to evolve and it's gonna force
the industry to evolve even furtherand zoning and jurisdictions, and
this is why those things exist, right?
That's part of a modern, civilizedsociety that's tried to protect

(10:35):
the people that enjoy that space.
And there's no doubt thatthis is just the beginning.
We're gonna see that impact.
But to your earlier point,Brian, you're absolutely right.
We're called Blue Water as a companybecause waterfront is in our DNA.
90% of our assets are on the water.
And it's not becausethat's our preference.
It's what our client's preferences are.
Yeah.
It's what they want to be close to.

(10:56):
And so for those reasons it's it'salways gonna be a double-edged sword.
We gotta do our best to keeppeople safe and in those scenarios.
And we have a responsibility inthat as owners and operators.
The government has a responsibilityin that in zoning and warning
systems and all those things.
But, it's, this is howan industry evolves.

What kind of things from your side first, Rafael, go into
this as you're either taking overmanagement of a property or consult.
Did you do Blue Water, does consultingOn develop new development, minor

amount of consulting.
I usually try to send allthat to Kristin's direction.
But, and some of the other greatfolks that are in this space.
We do obviously advise existing clients.
On expansions and other things like that.
The risk factor is somethingthat we take very seriously.
Blue Water, we were located herein Ocean City, Maryland, so we are
always on a ticking time clock ofwhen's the next hurricane, right?

(11:47):
Yeah.
And early in our management buildingour management portfolio, we
realized the importance of havingemergency preparedness plans.
Every single Blue Water propertyhas a satellite communicator, right?
And so if one of our propertiesgets completely wiped out because
of a hurricane or some othernatural disaster, we always have
the ability to stay in touch.
And that's just one piece of a verykind of robust emergency preparedness

(12:09):
plan that we're constantly refiningand proving as an organization, right?
And it's like you never know thatin Texas is kind of case in point.
You never know what the,what's gonna get you.
And so you can't you're better off to beprepared for and anticipate scenarios.
Even the ones that you might not.
Ever imagined it happened,but better be safe than sorry.

Scott, did we talk on, we talked on Outwired about
this a little bit, didn't we?
Emergency prep plans and stuff.
Yep.
Do you remember like whatwe generally landed on?
'cause I'm old and forgetyou're young and vibrant.

Scott Bahr (12:39):
Yeah, what we talked, we just talked a lot about how just honestly,
very simply the importance of it andto take into all those considerations
because one of the topics that we didhow that's related to is insurance.
And having someone that you trustsomeone who's good help, find a
good company to work with, someonethat can do the appropriate upfront

(13:00):
stuff with all that because you'regonna have to have a risk manager
eventually come in and evaluate that.
So that was really the gist ofwhat we were talking about, just
from a very practical point ofview to make sure that those parts
of the business are buttoned up.

I wanna get to you in a second, Kristin.
I just wanna give you a timeto think of the best answer
ever possible, so no pressure.
Nick, I'm curious like Nick how doesthe state parks and fish and game
and all that help handle, like floodthreats and how does this handle
internally in a government organization?

Absolutely.
So a little bit about us.
Game Fish and Parks.
We have our attorney, wehave our engineering staff.
Everything through kind of riskmanagement, that's a separate
win of state government.
So we're fortunate that we have thatresource right there at our disposal.
But on the day-to-day operationsof the park, one of the things that
we've identified across the state iswhat we refer to as high hazard dams.

(13:52):
So this was actually in 2020.
We went in and we implementedthe habitat stamp, which was
something that hunters anglers,this money, a big component of it.
It goes into habitatwork across the state.
But a lot of it went into some of thesemajor DAM projects, and that's something
that we're taking very seriously isthose infrastructure state owned dams.
High hazard dams.

(14:13):
That's something our engineers workwith, the state engineers and we've
made some really nice progress with.
And the other thing I'll say on theindividual park level is we are fortunate
to have some amazing volunteers.
Our Campground hosts, those are volunteerpositions within those parks and they do
a fantastic job 'cause life on the prairiehere things come and go pretty fast.

(14:33):
I sit here today, it's 90 degrees humid.
I worry about a storm justpopping up on us because that's
just the nature of life here.
Having that really good staff memberyou trust, they can get folks.
Our, we don't have a lot at some ofour parks and our comfort stations
are our storm shelter, our tornadoshelters, and then in the event of a
really bad storm taking place, whichthey generally seem to fall on weekends,

(14:55):
it seems as everybody is in the park.
I'm not sure.
That just seems to be howthe timing of it plays out.
But those volunteers and our conservationofficers, it's a team effort to make
sure all of our folks that are stayingin the parks are taken care of.
So that's kind my broad answer.
We're fortunate to have the stateengineer, we're fortunate to have the O
Office of Emergency Management, but onthat day-to-day that, that day-to-day in

(15:18):
the moment impact, it really comes downto those awesome volunteers we have.

And it is a lot that goes into it.
And I don't think peoplelike both from a state and.
A private park perspective, there'sa ton that goes into, the emergency
planning is not just as simple as,it's a lot easier going to Chat GPT
now, but it's not just as easy as that.
You have to think of all the intangiblesand all the what ifs and all the,
maybe it goes this way or that way, ormaybe it gets this high or that high
or and there's all kinds of differentthings, like our cabins on stilts.

(15:44):
Are they not, how does the land grade,how does it, all things, I'm just guessing
off the top of my head, I absolutelyknow nothing about this, but that
seems like a ton of work to go through.
But it's very critical.
Rafael?

It's absolutely critical.
And the scale of what happened inTexas and the number of properties
that were impacted, and again,this is something that hasn't
happened in a hundred years, right?
And but.
We can't just plan for, andthat's what my earlier point was.
You have to expect the unexpected andprepare for all the possible scenarios,
even how implausible they might be.

Yeah, that's the danger is saying now, like we don't wanna get into
this lull of saying okay, it's not gonnahappen for another a hundred years just
'cause it averages every a hundred years.
It could happen twice in threeweeks for all we know, right?

It almost did down there.
Yeah.

Yeah.
They did get a bunch of rain after it.
I saw that.
Yeah.
Alright, Kristin, are you ready?
You got no camera.
I'm

ready to give you the best answer ever.
So yeah, there's a few ways I can go offof what Rao shared and what Scott shared
too, and how we go about looking at that.
But, one Yeah.
Zoning, especially in Texas, we've doneso much stuff in Texas in particular,
I just wrapped up something and firstthere's just so much new development
out there and it's just allowedand, there's not a lot of checks and

(16:59):
balances, I would say, in that state.
So you definitely have totake that into consideration.
And then, one thing that we do when welook at feasibility is we're looking
at wetlands maps fema, flood maps.
And now we have recently started.
To look at the FEMA fire maps as tothe possibility of damage and the

(17:19):
cost behind it, and how risky inareas too, which then in turn plays
into how much is insurance gonna costand are you gonna be, have to be.
Paying a premium or not.
And so then we have to put that into ouranalysis and also list that as, hey, when
we do our SWOT analysis, this is a, athreat or this is something you have to

(17:41):
take very seriously and get some insurancequotes before you can move forward.
Same with stuff on the water.
I am just working on a feasibilitystudy, on the Gulf of Mississippi
and yeah, hurricane area, right?
We have to think about that.
So yeah, maybe on the stuff closest tothe water, it's maybe only some RV sites

(18:02):
or we're looking at maybe just doing someairstreams that can get pulled out of
there versus even say park metal cabins.
And then we're talking aboutwhat we call tree houses, but
then places on stilts, right?
So that if the flood comesthrough when it comes.
Through because it will at some point.
You know what I mean?
Like those aren't gonna be we'rehoping they don't get washed away.

(18:23):
These are all things too, when it comesto Hey, how feasible, really project,
because you have to look at nature andyour site in every site is different.

And you can never make your park nature proof, right?
Yeah.
I think I, I remember years agothat's called a parking lot.
Yeah, that's true.
But then you maybe have undergroundutilities in a parking lot.
So I don't know, maybe it's stillnot proof, but like I remember years
ago going to the Cape Hatas, KOA,like 2013, 14, something like that.
I can't remember the exactyear corporate owned property.

(18:53):
I remember going there and like theyhad just recovered from, I think
some major flooding and they had justrebuilt and everything was up on stilts.
The cabins were up really high, butthen I think a couple years ago they
hit again and most of it got wiped out.
They had just put in like this brandnew, I don't know, multimillion
dollar swimming pool and I don'tthink it was totally destruction.

Been back for a while and it's a great property.
But yeah, it's a beautiful property.
It's the reason people go there.
They go there for that proximity.
You are, and it's your ocean frontoasis for that week of the summer
at a price point that's incrediblyaccessible relative to the other options
in the outer banks, which are like16 bedroom houses that rent for tens
of thousands of dollars for a week.

(19:31):
And

yeah.

It's, again this we're, our whole industry and
especially the RV side in particularis based around accessibility.
It's based around thisconcept of community.
And there are two things thatyou can't replicate anywhere
else other than a Campground.
And yeah, you better believe it.
They're gonna want to be somewherecool, like on an, a barrier island
off the coast of North Carolina.

So when you look at let's start with Scott and Kristin.
Question for each of you guys.
We'll start with Scott.
When Scott, when you're consulting forpeople who are interested in either,
building, developing, renovating, askingquestions, things like that how do you.
Obviously it depends on so manydifferent intangibles, right?
Kristin was talking about whatis the likelihood of a fire or
a hurricane or things like that.
But is there different measurementpoints where you're like, obviously

(20:15):
this should be done before youpurchase a piece of land, right?
In some form or fashion beforeyou sink millions of dollars into
something and you're like, oh, Ididn't realize it was gonna flood.
Now I can't build what I wanthere and I'm stuck with the land.
But is there a certain point whereyou're like this is like on a scale
of one to 10, like six you maybe couldbuild here, four, you shouldn't, one,
you should run away as fast as possible.
How do you approach that with aclient for different, essentially

Scott Bahr (20:38):
We don't use a 10 point scale.

I didn't, I'm making something up, right?
I didn't assume you did

Scott Bahr (20:42):
but we develop a kind of a risk score overall.
And then, it's, there's abit of subjectivity to that.
But if you're not in the upper tierin that within the score, you should
really think about, I tend to bepretty conservative about that.
I tend to try to get people to, becausesometimes a lot of these things are
viewed with through rose colored glasses.

(21:03):
The people, they see the property.
It's this is gonna work.
Yeah, this is gonna work.
It's in the perfect spot.
It's we know it's it's great.
No, we don't need theenvironmental testing.
No, we don't need this.
And so that's why we typically havea, again, we're fairly conservative
by the, someone asks a questionwhere we're usually if you're not
really solid in the upper tier,then you probably shouldn't do it.

(21:24):
That's my take on it.
It's just that I, you might,so we, we did a decent amount
pushback on that, by the way.
But it's just I feel like it'sour incumbent upon us to do that.
Because you can tell and in factthere was a huge project that these
folks wanted to do in Illinois, andit was it would've been a disaster.
And after we made our recommendationnot to do it, about a month later,

(21:48):
one of the partners called usback and said, you know what?
That was the best call.
And it just, for a lot of thesereasons, it just came, it came
together and it wasn't gonna work.
It just wasn't gonna work.
So anyway, I know that's sounds a littlesubjective, but I think in some cases it
is, it's not really subjective becauseyou're basing it on the information
you have and your experiences.

Yeah.
But how you interpretit is suggestive, right?
Just like I as a marketer can look atGoogle Analytics and tell you eight
different stories about what's happening.

Scott Bahr (22:13):
Right.

It's all the same data, but it's different interpretations.
And it depends on what you'relooking at and what your goals are
and what your risk appetite is.
Same as investing in stock, Rafael,were you gonna say something?

It's a risk reward calculus, right?
Yeah, at the, because I have, likeI said, so many properties on the
waterfront that I could have boughtthe land, one block interior,
probably for, a third of the price.
But I would also be able to commanda third of the rent or less, right?
The fact that a kid can toss a fishingline off a dock in my property and

(22:43):
never have to leave the property isa, is something that a parent thinks
about when they're booking a trip.
And for all those reasons, it's,sometimes the risk does not, outweigh
and that's the calculus you have todo because it is a double-edged sword.
But it's what the consumer wants.
And so you have to be, you have tobe smart, you have to be calculated.
And now more than ever the Texas situationjust reminds us to be extra careful

(23:06):
that the proper precautions are inplace for the those unexpected events.
Those try.

Are there ways, let's say like you don't fall at the extreme.
I'm just gonna use my dumb 10 point scale.
'cause it's easier to illustrate on apodcast when I'm talking with no visuals.
But let's say like anywhere between7, 8, 9, is that fair, Scott?
You would be like, all right,you could probably build there,
but pay attention at seven.
Much more closely.

Scott Bahr (23:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's seven.
You're start to there'sgonna be some triggers.
There's some warning signsthat dropped it down.

Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.

If you're on a seven or eight on the risk scale, you better be
on a 10 11 on the revenue scale, right?

So lemme be clarify.
Otherwise is worst is like green outtagreen, develop everything, right?
So a, let's take it likean NPS score, right?
So nine out of 10 is really good.
Seven out, seven out eight isgood, but you don't really get
any points from it, so who cares?
But so like that so then if you get downto a, let's say a five or six, you're
not all the way down to a 1, 2, 3, 4.
If you're at a five or six, is therecertain instances where it makes

(24:02):
sense for you as an owner to look atyour consultants, your team, whether
that's Sage or Carin Consulting, oryour management company at Blue Water
and say, are there ideas you havethat this property's really beautiful.
I know it's a risk, my insurancemight cost more, but can I do
things to help protect the park?
Can I mitigate flood waters?
Can I don't know, dopruning of the forest?
Can I do controlled burns?

(24:23):
Can I like stuff like that?

You have to look at budgets too, right?
Course all this comes into play, right?
Obviously it's not a one size fits all.

Everyone (24:32):
Yeah.

Yeah.

But are there situations like that?
Have you, maybe let, lemme ask this.
Have you ever come across a propertythat was so epic that you're like,
yes, it's worth this extra cost?

Yes.
All day long.

Everyone (24:44):
Yeah.

Thank you.
Have water.
I have many in the Blue Waterportfolio where they're in high
risk areas that are, but they're in,irreplaceable real estate that people
flock to whenever they have time off.
So are there ways.

Yeah, if the rates can support it, then that makes
sense of doing something super high risk.
Like just what Ralph's saying.

So what are some ways that people can be proactive, understanding
that every park is different.
There's 10,000 different answers thatcould come out of your mouth, right?
But let's say, let's take ahurricane prone area, right?
Obviously up on stilts is one idea.
Are there other different ways that canlower the risk factor from an insurance
premium standpoint or a guest safetystandpoint that you can think of?
I think,

Emergency preparedness plans is like the one thing that's
the most controllable, right?
Developing responsibly is.
More often than not.
I think Texas is an exceptionmore often than not, that is well
dictated and well controlled by localauthorities because they've, that's
the one that has the longest trackrecord of issues and what happened.
And typically codes are a productof years and years of experience

(25:47):
in that particular market.
So that's what the, the valueof zoning and codes are.
And so following that, but what youcan control on your side, like I
said, is the emergency preparedness.
I think that's the most important thing.
And then developing responsibly, right?
And I have certainly walked awayfrom certain deals where I didn't
think the juice was worth the squeezebecause of the risk factor on known
flooding or whatever the case may be.

(26:08):
And there's also, something thatI've learned through this whole
experience in Texas is that there isa hurricane is actually as painful
as they are and as destructive asthey can be to like an entire area.
There's a lot of heads up, right?
Like you see 'em coming for a while andyou have some ability to anticipate,
react, things like tornadoes, things likeflash flooding, like these things pop up

(26:31):
outta nowhere with almost zero warning.
And it's a different tactic.
It's a different tactic.
And, I'm putting plans in place ina lot of my portfolio to enhance our
emergency preparedness plans specificallyto address things like that, right?
Things that are like less you haveto react to in very short timeframes.
And so understanding what yourpotential risks are and then building

(26:52):
emergency preparedness plans isprobably the single most important
thing as a business owner and theresponsibility you have to your guests.

Is there a Eleonore, I'm gonna do a reach thing here, right?
And see if I can tie this in any way.
But I'm curious, like wehear all the time about.
Car and vehicle safety standards,are there RV safety standards?

Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
There are two two standards.
There's the American, the NFP 1192, andthen in Canada there's the CSA Z two 40.
Now both standards are recognizedin most of the provinces in Canada.
A couple provinces onlyrecognize the CSAs at two 40.
But the units are builtto those standards.
And then most of the Campgroundoperators are aware of the standards.

(27:36):
And we ask that when they acceptRVs into their parks, that they be
built to one of those two standards.
And that's why you have the issue of.
I'm not gonna it's maybe the tinyhomes which, you know, maybe in some
of the parks, but, or units thatare one ofs or built by individuals.
We always tell Campground operators,please be aware that those might

(27:56):
not be built to a safety standardthat are required by provincial law.
And then would be inyour municipal zoning.
And they could potentially createa risk right to that Campground
if they're not built to thosebecause they are safety standards.
Just as an operator, please beaware of what you're accepting
into your park and ensure that itdoes meet one of those regulations.

What are some of the risk, if what are some of the riskiest
things that you think like some of themanufacturers have had to, not big ones
right, but like the, if you're lettingsomeone in that's not up to that code.
What are some of the risks that youas an operator, Campground operator,
are exposing yourself to you?
Because I think we've talked aboutfloods and natural disasters and fires,
but there's also like the fire thatstarted from, look at the Maine Scott?

(28:40):
The unfortunate couplein Maine who had their.
That, I don't know whether that wascode or I don't know if that was
propane just left on or whatever, butthere's dangers in the units themselves
too that impact operators, right?

Yeah.
Propane is propane, right?
So if it's not surfaced or regulated orinstalled properly, obviously it can cause
explosions damage, there's electricalissues, carbon monoxide sometimes people
take those unit the carbon monoxidedetectors out for whatever reason.
There's, there are all componentsof the safety standards.
We wanna make sure that there's, justlike you have your preparedness for
the campgrounds, the units, have aregulations on how many exits they

(29:13):
need to have and where those exits are.
And just in case there, thereis there is an issue, right?
I always recommend, make sure thatyou've got one of those two standards
labeled on the side of the unit to ensurethat, that they meet the codes, right?

It's super important.
And, I've just, happened recentlyright here in Ocean City.
There was a hotel that hadsent 40 people to the hospital
with carbon monoxide poisoning.
All the rooms that were like located inan adjacency to like the boiler area.
And to Eleonore's point, theirstandards they're built to or to
help prevent that type of stuff.
And unfortunately, or the natureof the RV and Campground world is

(29:49):
because it was somewhat it's a lotof these assets are older, right?
And sometimes things aren't necessarilybuilt to a code or necessarily,
or a permit may or may not havebeen pulled to build something.
And we've run across that inacquisitions where we're like, all
right, where's the C of O for this?
Was it inspected?
Where's the, where are all the approvals?
And sometimes, the Campgroundindustry slid under the radar.

(30:11):
I think now that we've become amore full-blown asset class of our
own and not just a subsidiary of.
Manufactured housing or other industries,much like the RV industry is subject to
these very specific code requirements,I think more and more scrutiny is
coming to the RV world which willincrease costs, which will increase the
amount of management oversight that'srequired, but it needs to be expected.

(30:35):
And ultimately it's the safetyof the guest that's staying
with you or the safety of theconsumer that's using the RV.
In the case of the RV,

are there ways that we should be communicating this better to guests?
And I'll take, I'll go to you Simon first'cause you obviously have a consumer
pacing product that like probably millionsof campers have seen in your maps at
various parks all around the world.
Are there ways that we should bedoing a better job to communicate, not
necessarily the dangers, but the risks?
I guess both.
But not going so far as to make peoplescared to come, but making them aware.

(31:07):
And I feel like even in the mostdangerous places in the world,
sometimes that's overlooked by guests.
I'll give you an example.
I was in Iceland several years agoand we went to a little town around
like Kovi here, and I I'm probablybackwards on the cameras not make sense.
Anyway, bottom corner of Iceland goingaround to the glaciers and we stopped
in this little town, they had anindoor, like a indoor lava exhibit where

(31:28):
they were melting stuff really hot.
And they were actually showingyou what lava looked like
inside in a really cool display.
And during the course of this whole like,I don't know, theater presentation, the
guy's yeah this town is basically I don'tknow, 150, 200 years past the date of
when our volcano or active one right upthere in the hill should have blown up.
And if it does, then the wholeglacier that's sitting on top
of it will melt instantly.

(31:49):
The flood will hit the town and everybodywill be wiped out in about 15 minutes.
So everybody here that liveslocally knows to go to the church.
And I'm like, what about the people whoare visiting and in your tour right now?
Do we know what, I didn't know togo to the church until you just told
me that but are there better waysthat we can be proactive, Simon?
Do we need to be?
Or what is, does that look likefrom a consumer standpoint?

Simon Neal (32:09):
Yeah, I think you don't wanna scare people.
But I think it's two things.
One, be an awareness of planningor being upfront about things.
And the other is, when something goeswrong, make sure they get the information
immediately and they can act on it.
If you want, I can actuallyshow you a feature that we have.
Might be quite useful.

Yeah, go for it.
Because I think there's I mean as he pullsthis up, Rafael, there's obviously guest
communication from your standpoint too.
You don't wanna put like a, Hey,there's a 22% chance that your
vacation could be completely floodedaway or you don't wanna do that.
But but so I started with Simon for themaps that he's gonna show us in a second.
And I didn't know about this feature, butthat's one tool of guest communication.

(32:51):
So are the awareness that you makepeople in the pre-arrival emails and
the signage around your park, like Iwas in Churchill, Manitoba, everywhere.
There's signs that say, justdon't walk past the sign.
There's polar bears here, likeall around the edge of town.
So
go ahead Simon.

Simon Neal (33:08):
Okay.
So yeah, this is one of ourcampgrounds and part of our maps.
We have these filters up front.
So they're really pushing us to developsomething for emergency situations.
So if any emergency happens in theCampground, you can click the filter.
And everything else that's notimportant disappears from the map.
And and highlighted the emergency arrows,which direction to go, fire extinguishers.

(33:32):
And you even have defibrillators.
So if you click on defibrillator here,you have the emergency contact information
and even directions and it's gonna takeyou turn by turn to the defibrillator.
So

that's really neat.

Simon Neal (33:45):
Yeah.
So this is one example whichcame from a customer request.
We implemented, and of course allof these kind of views and links
can be shared in SMS or emails.
If you do have an event happeningthat goes to their phone, they
click on one link, they have themap popping up saying, run this way.

Yeah.
You and I keep talking and like we'regonna, we're just gonna do a private
sidebar here, guys, about business.
You and I keep talking about meintegrating with your API, but
we need our AI to be able to askthe directions that it gets from
your map to the defibrillator too.
So they have multiple points of.
Contact, whether that's phone or chator looking at the map or whatever.
Because you may be only able to do onething depending on an emergency situation.

(34:26):
Yeah.

Simon Neal (34:27):
Yeah.
So the idea behind this is every stateis shareable and it's identifiable.
So whatever you need to reactto, if provide that visual cue
straight away and it's relevant.

Are there regulations, Rafael, and like where, like for example,
he's got a defibrillator on here.
Are there regulations on a statecounty specific level that you have
to have fire extinguishers, likeobviously in the cabins, but different
places or defibrillators or medicalservices or anything like that?

Yeah, a lot of that, a lot of times that's dictated
by, local health department codes.
That's really who controlsa lot of that for us.
And some areas are a little bit morestrict than others and we are always
working to the most stringent standard.
If we have to meet Yeah.
Virginia Standard, whichis pretty high and tight,

then

we will implement that as our baseline everywhere
and then amend that as needed.
Where needed.

Nick, how does this work in South Dakota?

Yeah, great question.
So same thing.
A lot of our, I, going back to myoriginal answer, our volunteers, our
Campground hosts our conservationofficers, they're the point of contact
because they're actually, they're inthe park, that number one resource.
But to your guys' point too, in termsof preparation we're fortunate that
we did have a grant that we could haveAEDs in every single one of our parks.

(35:41):
Again, our comfort stationsdouble as our storm shelters.
So we're pretty fortunate that we have apretty good infrastructure within that.
And then again, we work very closelywith state engineers, office of Risk
Management, making sure that we dohave all these very, what we would
need based on the size of that park.
And to even go back to theconversation about communicating

(36:01):
with our visitors, that's somethingthat I think is absolutely key.
We enjoy this becauseit's the outdoors, it's.
Wild places, wild animals,unpredictable things.
You look at Custer State Park, youhave the South Dakota guy on it, right?
We have to talk about the buffalo.
We literally have cus visitorsthat are, feet away from Buffalo.
I would prefer they're not that close.

(36:21):
But we, we all know on thiscall that sometimes they do.
So doing that bison safety reminder,making sure that when they book,
they have that information.
We talk about recreatingwith respect a lot.
That's, putting them at thecampfire, making sure that
everything you do is up to code.
Making sure you're takingcare of your guests as well.
Again, that fire danger, don'tpark on tall grass, making

(36:42):
sure we have adequate parking.
A long answer to a couple of thequestions, but that's kinda how
it works with game fish and Parks.

I think, there's a whole nother episode we could probably
do on the people who are standinga few feet away from Buffalo.

There is.
There is.
And I don't know that I'm excitedenough to be on it, but I could
get, definitely get some interest.
Yes.

I do have a, I do have a side story.
So I actually did a week long hike inYellowstone National Park and the night
before we go out, it was a guided, tripand it was an hour and a half kind of prep
talk, that here's what's going on, here'swhat you need to repair for 45 to minutes
to an hour of that was about bear safety.
And it was like so explicit.

(37:23):
It was basically like, I don'tcare if you walk out of your tent
naked in the middle of the night,you take your bear spray with.
That goes with you everywhere.
And it was so explicit that he saidthat sometimes people don't show up
the next morning to go on the hike.

That, that's fine, but that's honestly that's what you want.
It's there was never that class whenwe went to Churchill, Manitoba, which
is the polar bear capital of the world.
But like when you leave Churchill, otherthan like maybe a month, like the month
we were there, probably June or maybeJuly, you leave your house with a shotgun.
Everybody in the town leaves all theirhouses and car doors unlocked, so

(37:59):
you can jump in and close the door.
If they pull their, like they just walkright through town, dozens of them.
And so at some point there's justlike a look, here's a sign like
we've told you there's a shotgun.
Get on board or well.
The other alternative is, stand acouple feet away from the buffalo.

What do you think we're, we got, we're more than halfway
through today, do you think we maybetalk about kind of some, we're here in
early August, we've gotten through July.
Should we talk about some trendsthat we're seeing in the industry?
I'd especially, let's do it, advantageof Eleonore being here today.
Love to hear how how are RVsdealers faring this year so far?

I'm only speaking for Canada and it has been it's been soft.
I think I've heard, and we'rejust waiting for our stats.
Unfortunately, we're alwaysabout five weeks behind, right?
So in, in new unit sales.
We had stats to the end of the end of May.
We were down about 12% over a yearprior, and now 2024 and 2023 were
not stellar in the Canadian industry.

(38:57):
We, I have heard anecdotally from ourdealers when I spoke to them in June,
in the beginning of July that thingshad actually picked up a little bit.
We're happy to hear that.
We should get our June stats.
Either the end of this week orfirst, first of next week, just
to see if that's going well.
I think it's and from what I hearin the states, it's been a little
bit similar, there's uncertainty.

(39:19):
People are holding on todiscretionary income if they have it.
In Canada our interest rateshave come down a little bit.
So that's been good for consumers.
Lucky.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's been a positive.

We're working on it.
Rafael, I know you guys are working on it.
You just got a couple morepeople get a fire down there.
We're you're getting closerto lower interest rates.

Yeah, we were, we.
One big win for us is we've been workingwith with our government to get the
counter tariffs off of motorized units.
And as of, because that was announcedon April 9th that motor homes were being
tariffed at the 25%, we were successfulin getting a remission for motor homes
in the RV industry, which is huge.

(40:01):
And it was retroactiveto that April 9th date.
So hopefully that meant that dealerscould be, 'cause I know that there
were very few imports of motorhomes into Canada after April 9th.
So hopefully that means things willhave opened up a little bit there.
Definitely.
Some positive new news, but Ithink people are still a little bit

(40:22):
concerned about, what's happeningand where the economy's going to go.
Now, I hear anecdotally, and maybeScott probably has more detail on
what's happening on the CanadianCampground side, but we do hear that,
people are going out there Camping.
It seems like it's busy.
I talked to care at C-C-R-V-Aand our, some of our different
provincial Campground associations.

(40:42):
I think things are going okay.
Obviously we have disasters in some areas.
We've had fires not as bad obviouslyas the Jasper Fire last year, but
I know Manitoba and Saskatchewanhave had to close some of their
provincial parks for the season justbecause of the impact of the fires.
Overall hopefully things are picking up'cause it's been, it's a bit soft, but.

(41:03):
I am curious

if you have any kind of bead on like we've seen a material
impact of Canadians not coming to theus and I think from some of the data
that I've seen in the Campground sidefrom KOA specifically, that they've the
Canadian K oas have been some of thebeneficiary of folks staying in Canada.
Oh yeah.
Good for them, obviously.
I'm curious if you think that ishaving an impact on RV sales where

(41:28):
people are maybe discouraged todayfrom taking that thing over the border.

Yeah, I think what's happening is you'll see probably in
the fall, typically in the fall, wewould get the snowbirds that would be
purchasing their units to take themdown to, somewhere in, whether it be
Florida, if you're from Quebec or orof here in Arizona, on the west coast.
There is a sentiment of staying in Canada.
We have heard that, bordercrossings from at the land borders

(41:55):
are down traumatic dramatically.
Even less border crossings thanwere happening during COVID.
And during COVID there was, it was, youweren't allowed unless it was essential.
Yeah.
Essential, or for business.
So I think that will probably continue.
How long will that last?
Will it be another three and a half years?
I don't know.
I think people are, there'sdefinitely to stay in Canada.

(42:16):
I've talked to the rental companies,so the rental companies like.
That that have rentals onboth sides of the border.
They may be down slightlyon the US and Canada.
The rentals are up.
We're getting a lot of European travelersthat are focusing on Canada at the moment.
So I think the rentalwill be doing quite well.
And which then translates, asa positive for the Campground

(42:36):
industry as well, because they needto, they need those places to go.

Please carry the message on behalf of all of your
US camp partner just in Canada.

Kor with us, right?
That's what you're gonna say, Rafael.

We do.
We'd love for you to come back.
It's not us, it's them.
You know how on Now

it's them.
Who's them?
Now you're gonna lump 'eminto this group of it's them.
Yeah.

It's the, the lizards.
It's the lizards.

No, the US is a wonderful, amazing place.
So many people like it does, right?
Like I even am guilty of it sometimes.
And I'm from the US of lumping justpeople, whether it's in the US or
Canada or anywhere in the world,into buckets of, you voted for this
guy, you didn't vote for this guy.
So you like, it's not that way.
Like many, like 90% ofAmericans are probably like

(43:21):
open arms to Canadians, right?
It just is unfortunate thatsometimes it gets buried.

Yeah.

In this media.

Hopefully it's a short-lived sentiment from
both sides of the border.
The other thing I was curious, EleonoreI'm sorry to put you so much on the spot.
Yeah, no.
We've seen opportunities 'causeobviously it's a little bit
soft on the RV side here.
We've actually had some reallygreat opportunities to partner with
RV dealers as a Campground owner.
And so we've been actually setting upthese mini showrooms on our campgrounds.

(43:52):
And the RV dealers will come down.
They'll have somebody there to tour peoplebecause you obviously, we have a qualified
buyer population sitting on that property.
And so have you seen anykind of more collaboration or
innovation on the Canadian side?
Any great ideas that maybewe can adopt down here?

We're always encouraging that for our dealers to work with
their Campground operators andexactly in terms of having that.
You, you've got a captive audience,people wanting to camp, wanting
to potentially purchase an RV,they're in your campgrounds.
It's a great opportunity for dealersto, to connect with the local Campground
operator to do a showcase like that.

(44:28):
And same sort of on the other way,if people are purchasing an RV
for the dealer to have informationon the local campgrounds, and we
continue it works well in some areas.
In some areas a little bit less.
I, I don't know.
I don't know why sometimes there's viewedif it's park models, are we competing?
Ultimately I think there'sroom for everybody.
But if you have any marketing materialsthat we can use or any language like we.

(44:50):
Continue to send that messageout to our dealers constantly to
say this is a great opportunity.
I know in Ontario we've got acouple campgrounds that are, close
to like their Niagara Falls andclose to a large dealer there.
And they will often, when there's,say an open house or an event at the
Campground they will invite the dealerto bring a couple units and showcase

(45:12):
those and have the dealership staffbecause ultimately they're familiar
with the product and can, answer thequestions of what the product line is.
And I would encourage Campground operatorsand dealers on both sides to, to have that
connection because ultimately, the betterit will ultimately help the consumer.
Better experience.
The consumer is.
Customer.
And if they can buy a product that theyunderstand, that they know will fit in the

(45:34):
Campground the way and use, be able to beused the way they want to use it I think
everybody will have a positive experience.

I couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
And I think in this post COVID world, thecollaboration between the RV side, both
manufacturing dealer, and then ultimatelythe campgrounds and the end user and even
the the state groups like, like Nick'sFisher Parks, like we all have to be
working together in this post COVID era topromote this industry and this lifestyle.

(46:03):
Because we do share a client and it'san awesome customer to share that is
based in this concept of community.
And we, I think as we work togetheras a community to promote it, we
can bring more people into thiskind of really special outdoor
hospitality space that we all love.

Is great opportunity fit, right?
This is a natural, we've talked about thisbefore about private parks partnering with
dealerships and many do, but this is tome like a take one of your nice rigs that
you have five of, so you're not missinganything on the lot to show somebody
who shows up at the dealership, right?
And park it on a site at a Campgroundfor maybe the weekend only pay them
the nightly rate for that site.

(46:39):
And then there's just signs outside thatguests can go in on tours, clean your
shoes, take care of the place, right?
That's just a natural fit to me.
If you're anywhere within 20, 30miles of a dealership is does, right?
And there's somebody does that,but just Best Buy is working on
the IKEA store concepts now storewithin a store, we don't even charge

' Rafael Correa (46:59):
em man.
We let 'em set up.
I mean it's like an amenity, right?
If you think of it, it's,but look at new cars, right?
Who doesn't love that?
But if it's taking up a site

on a weekend is my point, right?
They're clearly getting value out of that.
Probably more than you will longterm if they sell the huge rig for
a hundred thousand or whatever.
Or more.
Go ahead, Scott.
Sorry.

Scott Bahr (47:18):
I was just gonna say that in the coming weeks, just to, I'm
gonna try to squeeze this in here atthe end, that we've done some recent
research for both the RVIA as well asKOA, and it's be coming out in the next
couple weeks hopefully from both ofthem, as long as I can get it rolling.
But there's some really interestingfindings in there, and I can't give

(47:39):
out too much, but just that on thistopic here, one of the things that
we're really trying to focus onwith the RBIA work is opportunity.
What are these opportunities andhow do you talk to these folks?
How do you get more ofthese people in there?
There's huge opportunity out there.
I can't even emphasize that enough.
It's how much opportunitythere exists right now.
It just has to the industry itself has tolook at things a little bit differently.

(48:01):
And by the way, El Eleonore,I'm gonna start doing the
research with RVDA in the us.
I have a meeting with Philtomorrow to go over some of that.
So some fun stuff that'llbe coming out of there too.
And so I call it data fun.
I know.
But it's fun.
The other thing is the sense of optimismthat I think I can give this away a
little, just a little bit, is thatthere's a, there is an uptick in optimism

(48:26):
compared to last year at this time.
That there's a reason to be optimisticabout where things are going.
I think we're seeing froma consumer, or sorry, just

to clarify, consumer dealership, Campground all,

Scott Bahr (48:37):
I think for all of the above.
Okay.
Is that you're starting to seethat that change, you're starting
to see a little bit of a change.
It's not huge.
It's gonna be incremental.
Like all the people, thedoors aren't gonna open,
everybody's just gonna flood in.
It's not gonna happen.
But you're seeing it, you'restarting to see some optimism.
The one measure, we've talked about thisa lot on outlier in the past as well,

(48:58):
keep an eye on consumer confidence.
Where that goes is where we'regoing and we've been tracking that.
And it's been going,

it's been reversing and going up at least one month I think it was.

Scott Bahr (49:07):
And even if it's flat, even if it's flat that's not necessarily bad.
Just pay attention to that as we, wewant people, as long as people feel
good about things, it is the bestpredictor of what they're gonna do.
Whether they're, whether it's buyan RV or stay at a Campground.
So those are a couplethings we're tracking.
In the coming weeks I'll be ableto talk a lot more about it.
But I think there's gonna besome really interesting stuff.

(49:29):
And contact Bill Baker at RVIA ifyou want a copy of the report that.
I gave him two, two days ago.

Do you have a cell phone number you wanna give out?

Scott Bahr (49:36):
I sure no, kill me, but but he's the contact there
that, he's the research contact.
Him or Monica?
Either one.

Kristin, is there any data we're missing from Sage
that you think we should know?

We actually are about to be coming
out with we already have a glampingreport that we have put out.
And also you can, it's very affordable.
It's just 150 bucks if you wanna do theUS or if you wanna do individual states.
We are about to now launchan RV industry report.

(50:06):
That's gonna be coming about and Ithink we're gonna really kinda launch
it I think at the glamping show.
But that's gonna be coming out soon.
So we're gonna be talking abouttrends too, what we're seeing, how
certain amenities can affect rates.
Where different parks are at in, instages of I think, more stabilized versus
newer coming online, what's happening.

(50:28):
And also even just talking about the mixof how we are seeing some of the newer
RV parks out there, that they're reallygetting a boost of ROI by including yes.
Whether it's park model cabinsor some kind of alternative stay.
Because it's allowing people tonot actually have to buy a big rig

(50:50):
or a camper and actually enjoy allthe benefits of the community, the
outdoor, the amenities, et cetera ofRV parks and campgrounds out there.
So more to come.

Nick, anything we missed from South Dakota?
I know we didn't get a chance totalk about your beautiful state
too much, as much as we wanted to.
Blame Simon.
He got us distracted.

No, I found this conversation very interesting.
And one, one thing I would say too, frommy perspective, and I'll say this hat in
hand, as a 28-year-old, as we transitionfrom generations to who are staying in
our parks, we're seeing a lot of trends.
And Eleonore I hope this isn't anegative for you, but we're going
from some of the bigger rigs.
To more of, those smaller amenities.

(51:34):
And I will even say one thing, maybewe're a little weird here in South
Dakota, but overnight ice castles areactually doubling as Camping units
now, and they're doubling as RVs.
And there are people that will literallypark these trailers out on the ice.
Throughout the ice season onthe water bodies and then we'll
camp out of them in the summer.
So that's an interesting trend we'reseeing with the younger families too.

(51:56):
So that's just one thing we've eventalked about, acclimating our customers.
Maybe there's someone that wants toget into Camping, wants to get into our
parks that just aren't familiar with it.
It can be a daunting task.
So I love the conversation we just hadabout having some of these out there
because that was something we discussedis, we'll help you set up your site,
we'll help you walk through your RV.

(52:16):
Just breaking down those barriersto entry, I think is gonna be really
key for us as we go through thistransition from that baby boomers to
more so those young families gettinginto our parks and into Camping.

What does the insurance look like for ice glamping?
If you just drag a couple hutsonto the frozen pond, Rafael.
Northeast.

I don't know.
I did have the opportunity.

Your reward or?

I did have the opportunity to stay in the Ice Hotel
in in Sweden this past year, whichwas a pretty incredible experience.
And it was late in theseason, so it was kind

Did you go with Toby when she went?

Yeah, it was starting to melt on me a little bit, but but it
was it was a really cool experience.
Not saying it's something that I'mrunning to do to mimic that concept from
a development perspective, but they hadan incredible execution in that scenario.

Yeah, for, it's all about experience, right?
I think we've talked aboutthat so much on the show.
Scott and I are gonna explore alittle bit about that on Outwired
here in about an hour, or whatare we gonna talk about, Scott?

Scott Bahr (53:10):
Opportunities with people arriving in alternative
transportation is one of the topics.
Yeah.

So a little bit about you're near a major city.
You've got all these andwe'll come with some ideas.
Of unique ways you can reach out topeople in the city who don't have
cars, who haven't even crossed theirmind to go glamping or to go Camping
or to purchase an RV or to whatever.
How do you approach them?
How do you market to them?
How do you get them to your park?
How do you like, get to thesehotel guests who will still go to

(53:36):
hotels, but also would be willingto change it up a little bit.
Just like the difference betweenHarvest host to a state park, to
a private park to, or whatever,to cross all those traffics.
And then I'm gonna argue that wedon't even need any marketing anymore.
That's gonna be my standpointfrom a marketing guy.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say Idon't think we can do marketing anymore.
I think you need experience.

(53:57):
Brian, we just

started marketing at the state parks level like two
years ago, so we're still workingour way through that progression.

People just aren't aware of how beautiful South Dakota is yet.
You're, let's be honest, South Dakotagets a bad rep for whatever reason.
Doesn't make any sense to me.
It's a beautiful state, but it's justnot, I don't know if it's just not enough
people up there to go up there, but.

And that's what we're trying to showcase is all
the experiences you can have here.
All the beautiful differentareas we have within the state.
It's not just Mount Rushmore.
We have the Missouri River,we have Glacial Lakes region.
So there we go, Brian.
We're near the end, but we gotmy plugin for South Dakota.

Good.
There we go.
All right we'll work on it more foryou in the coming episodes, Nick.
But seriously I want tospend more time and Koto too.
Sounds good.
Areas that are underserved andnever throughout the United States.
All right, let's goaround for final thoughts.
Kristin, any final thoughts?
And then where can theylearn more about Sage?

Yeah.
Our website has a plethora ofinformation and we are at almost
every single conference out there.
Also, anybody can through our website,set up a just free chat with me.
Pick my brain.
I'd love to hear about your project,share a little bit about us if
we can possibly help you out.
And just try to give you alittle bit of insight or steer

(55:05):
you in the right direction.

Awesome.
Thank you for being here, Kristin.
I appreciate your expertiseand your insights.
Simon.

Simon Neal (55:12):
Yeah, nothing much else outside.
I think it was a great discussion today.
And if you wanna find out any informationabout Camp Map, just head to campmap.com.
Contact us there.

Thanks, Simon.
We'll be in touch soon withyour Canadian Park code.
Work on it for you, man.
I promise.
Nick, South Dakota,

again, thank you guys for having me.
Our state parks are open.
We're open for opportunity.
Please come check them out.
We have a variety of amenities, a varietyof facilities, whether it's Western
South Dakota, Northeast Southeast,or along the Missouri River here.
We want you to come, we want youto have a great time and don't be
afraid to reach out gfp.sd.gov.
That's our website.
Come find out all about our parks.

All right, we'll take care of you, Nick, and if for
whatever reason in the event thatwe fail you can come join Canada,
we'll take care of you up here too.

That sounds terrific.

Eleonore.

Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
It was actually, it was interestingto hear from the outdoor hospitality
and especially from the riskmanagement side what's being done
and how that will help RV consumers.
If anybody wants to reach outto me, our website's rvda.ca
and hopefully we'll see you next month.

Thanks, Eleonore.
Appreciate it.
Rafael.

Yeah, I wanna jump in and echo kind of Scott's
hinting at increased optimism.
I think we're seeing itin actual booking data.
And so I just kinda want to echo that,and I think that hopefully the tide
is shifting and that we're gonna starthaving, instead of a headwind, a little
bit of a tailwind going into next year.
That's what I'm hopeful for.
And then the other kind of data pointto share is that, the vacation rentals,

(56:38):
especially deluxe cottage park modelsfor us have been a real shining star
as far as performance this year.
I think that's a, the peopleare catching on to this way of
traveling that is in a hotel room.
They may not be RVs, but they want tohave that cap crown community experience
and it's such a great gateway thatgives you all the comforts of home.

(56:59):
And I'm really excited forthat trend as it's developing,
as well as we're seeing it.

Yeah, I think Scott and I share the sentiment.
Scott will give us final thoughts in asecond, but I think that's what our whole
like premise of our episode is there'sso many more people if they were exposed.
Two, a private Campground to a statepark, to a glamping resort, two, whatever,
who have never thought about it before.
And Earl is a big thingwith black folks camp too.
But there are lots of differentdemographics beyond just that who are

(57:24):
the same way of all races, colors,creeds, sizes, gender, everything else.
If they just, they've never, it'snever crossed their mind before.
And I think if we open the doorto them, man, there's a ton of
people that could fill these parks.

Scott Bahr (57:35):
If much like Kristin, we have some resources too.
We have a resource library.
We should probably talksometime Kristin about

Yeah, we should.

Scott Bahr (57:41):
Cause everything on our, yeah, we try to offer up a lot of publicly
available information and we put, wedon't just post our stuff on there.
So if you go to our website,cairnconsultinggroup.com,
there's a resource librarythat you can tap into.
There's a lot of the stuff that I'vedone with Brian as well on there.
So there's, a lot of information.
Please feel free, and I'llecho what Kristin said too.
Please reach out.
I like talking to people.

(58:02):
We're research data people.
We don't always get achance to get out much.
Push to the back room.
Sometimes you can anyway.
But yeah, to, and to echo what Brianjust talked about, just there's
huge opportunity and that's one ofthe things that we've talked about
a lot is this leisure traveler whowants an experience or maybe wants an
experience they don't know about yet.

(58:23):
This is why hotels aregetting the glamping.
It's not because it's because they seeglamping and our industry and what Rafael
was talking about too is that they'reproviding it's, that's the threat to them.
So that's why they're doing this.
And the last thing on that transportationthing, just a little teaser for what
we're gonna talk about, is that 10%of people who don't camp don't do so

(58:44):
because they don't have transportation.
That's a lot of people.

You were supposed to save that exclusive thing for Outwired man.

Scott Bahr (58:51):
It's a teaser.

Now nobody's gonna watch.

Scott Bahr (58:53):
You're a marketer.

Come on man.

Scott Bahr (58:55):
That's over.
But we're gonna talk a littlebit more about the 10%.

Oh wait, there's more.

Scott Bahr (59:01):
But wait.

Alright.
Thank you guys for joining us foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
Really appreciate it.
If you guys aren't sick and tiredof hearing, me and Scott, we'll be
on Outwired in about an hour-ish.
So talking about all the thingsthat we previously stated.
Thank you to Kristin, Simon, Nick,Eleonore, Rafael Scott again, and I don't
know, myself, I dunno what I do here.
I just talking to mic anddon't give any good insights.
But I appreciate you guys being here foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.

(59:24):
We'll see you guys later.

Everyone (59:26):
Bye.
See Fireside.

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MC Fireside Chats - August 6th, 2025

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