Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Searl (00:45):
Welcome everybody to
another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perksin a remote location with all kinds of
fancy tech issues happening to us today.
Hopefully the introplayed okay for you guys.
It's stuttery over here.
I'm in the middle of the kind ofwilderness, as you guys can see
behind me here but wouldn't tradethe view for non-tech issues.
So excited to be here for another show.
(01:07):
Welcoming a couple of a recurring guestback Mike Harrison from CRR Hospitality.
Good to see you, Mike.
Sandy Ellingson.
I still don't know whereyou're from, Sandy.
You just do so many different things andyou consult and like you had a company
called your name and then you didn't, andthen I don't know what's happening, but
Sandy, Wizard of whatever she does thatshe'll tell us or she does in a minute.
And then Robert Preston a new recurringguest fresh from Unhitched RV.
(01:29):
Welcome Robert as well.
There look like my gimbaljust went sideways and crazy.
I think it looks, maybe, itthinks that look better this way.
Anyway, we wanna go around the roomwhile I try to fix my gimbal and we'll
just talk to everybody else and have'em introduce themselves real quick.
Briefly, guys and ladiesand Britt's here too.
Sorry.
Britt's like way down off my phone.
Camera.
I'm sorry, Britt.
(01:49):
I didn't mean to forget you.
Mike Harrison (01:53):
I'll start.
Mike Harrison Chief OperatingOfficer of CRR Hospitality.
We own and manage, and thirdparty, manage RV and glamping
resorts, as well as consulting.
And clearly I'm not whereyou are, although I'll be in
Vancouver in about three weeks.
I guess that's not reallyclose, but I'll be in Canada.
How's that?
Brian Searl (02:13):
It's closer than Calgary.
It's probably eight.
How far is Vancouver from here, Christa?
How far is Vancouver from here?
We're doing a live show, we need to know.
Four or five hour drive accordingto the experts lived in Canada.
Hold on.
Anyway.
Not that far.
(02:33):
Whatcha are you gonna Vancouver for?
Mike Harrison (02:35):
We're going
on a cruise to Alaska.
Brian Searl (02:38):
Oh, nice.
And my gimbal's not gonnacooperate again today.
It beeps at me and it's I'mangry, I'm too hot, or I'm just
not gonna tell you what it is.
So we'll figure this out in asecond, but who's next after Mike?
Robert Preston (02:49):
Go ahead ladies.
Sandy Ellingson (02:52):
Britt, you go ahead.
Not hearing her.
So I'll go ahead.
I'm Sandy Ellingson.
My primary role is serving as a liaisonbetween the RV industry and campgrounds.
My prior experience was as a consultantprimarily with technology and strategy.
(03:13):
And so I just love helping my campgrounds.
I'm in semi-retirement and so I getto pick and choose who I wanna work
with and I play the rest of the time.
Brian Searl (03:23):
Nice.
Good job to have, right?
Being able to pick and choose.
Robert Preston (03:39):
That's better.
Good afternoon.
My name is Robert Preston.
Founder, CEO of UnhitchedRV and Management.
We own, operate and develop RV parksprimarily in Southeast and also do
third party management and consulting.
Thanks for having us on, Brian.
Brian Searl (03:57):
Maybe I'll
get to talk to you.
Robert Preston (03:59):
There we go.
Brian Searl (03:59):
You're welcome.
Maybe.
Great.
Robert Preston (04:01):
Sounds great.
Brian Searl (04:01):
We'll find out how long.
Sandy did you introduce yourself?
You did?
No?
Sandy Ellingson (04:05):
I did.
Brian Searl (04:06):
Okay.
And then Britt, we're waiting on Britt.
Sorry.
Britt's, I believe in the waiting room.
I keep planning her in.
She's switching betweenher phone and her desktop.
So I'll let both Britts in hereand see which Britt wants to talk.
We have one of the Britts?
We
don't have any of the Britts.
(04:26):
We will figure out Britt in a minute.
Like you guys.
Can you guys see both Brittfeeds or is that just me?
No, zero.
That both Zero Britts.
Okay.
Robert Preston (04:34):
Zero Britts are present
Brian Searl (04:35):
Interesting.
It's showing her on my screenanyway, so Britt will be here soon.
And we'll figure that out.
Sorry Britt, for thetechnical difficulties.
But where do we wanna start today, guys?
Normally I go around and say to ourrecurring guests, is there anything that's
come across your guest in the last monthsince we've been together in the show
that you feel is important to bring up?
I know we've been through the July4th holiday weekend and we've got a
(04:57):
good picture now that the kids areoutta school of what's gonna happen
because this and that business.
We got a lot of people here who owna lot of parks or work with a lot
of parks and Roberts, Mike, Sandy,Angele, that will be on us shortly.
Is there anything that you guysthink we should be talking about?
First off.
Mike Harrison (05:16):
Yep.
And so, what's new and what do wethink is gonna change the industry?
This week we are launching RigsbyLive or soon to be Campy Live.
But voice reservations via our AI agentRigsby are going to be live this week.
And we think it's gonnachange the industry forever.
(05:37):
In partnership with InsiderPerks, of course, you help
really, develop the entire thing.
You'll never get a busy signal,you'll never get a no answer.
You can make a reservation at1:00 AM and we think it will
revolutionize the entire process.
We're not even sure that any hotelcompany is really doing this yet
it'll be something that's interesting.
Obviously we've had the chatbot now for three years or so.
(05:59):
Then we evolve to, Rigsby voice andthen AI chat with reservations, and
now Rigsby with reservations and,both Insider Perks and Camps Spot
have been, excellent partners in this.
And we're pretty excitedto see how it goes.
We expect there'll be a coupleof hiccups the first week or two.
But that's part oflaunching something new.
Being on that first curve of thediffusion of innovation you're always
(06:22):
gonna have some of those trials, butwe're pretty excited for that, Brian.
Brian Searl (06:26):
You guys know I don't
like talking about myself and I don't
send mic checks before the show.
Can we have the other guestblessing to briefly talk about this?
'cause I do think it's importantto discuss a little bit about AI.
Is that okay with you guys?
Sandy and Robert?
I'm not gonna be self-promotional, right?
But it is AI overall is a conversationthat we should probably have and
have had a little bit, right?
Like what Mike's talking about is we'vedeveloped an AI that can answer all
(06:49):
your phone calls at your park for 24/7.
We've had that out for actually ayear, but now it's going to actually
be able to take the full reservationto check availabilities, to give
site types, to send payment links,to do everything through Camp
Spot in the beginning initially.
And then after that we're going toexpand it to the other reservation
providers that an order of demand.
And so we believe it's 95% where it needsto be to replace the phone rep right now,
(07:14):
standard phone rep or maybe a call center,I guess is a better word to do that.
But we think like certainly as thetechnology continues to improve.
Nobody wants to replace workers, butthe technology is what it is, whether
we're playing in it or not playing in it.
So I think it's interesting wherethe future goes operationally
and things like that.
So Sandy, I know you've done some workwith consulting on some AI stuff with
some of your parks, but Robert's new,so Robert, do you have anything you're
(07:37):
doing with AI at your properties?
Robert Preston (07:39):
I wouldn't say that
we're necessarily doing other properties.
We use it a lot on the backendin regards to deep dive into
rates or comps or occupancies andstuff pulling that and using ai.
To aggregate a lot of data particularlyon the acquisition side of the
house and setting rates and whatnot.
And then we use it a little bit in regardsto power consumption and utility metering.
(08:05):
But we haven't really utilized it alot from a guest forward perspective.
It's more backend perspective.
Brian Searl (08:14):
Okay.
It's been with us for two and a half yearsthat you feel like have been the most
beneficial to Unhitched RV that you'velearned as you've progressed with AI?
Robert Preston (08:24):
We're not
using the chat bot, right?
Brian Searl (08:26):
No.
Like from operationally, from the thingsyou're talking about that you're using.
Robert Preston (08:29):
Yeah.
So operationally, in general,there's a huge deficit of knowledge.
There's a huge deficit ofinstitutionalized data to pull from.
Whereas in multifamily industryor any other industries, you would
have tons and tons a wealth of data,CoStar, so on and so forth to pull
into, down to the scent level of whatyour price per square foot should be.
(08:50):
So really what AI has helped us do rightnow is just to pull that data quickly,
faster, and at a higher frequency.
We still think that we have to bethe primary I don't think AI for
our industry right now has theability to consume it and then
give us valuable, specific output.
(09:12):
So we still have to take that dataand then interpret it, I guess I would
say, whereas most other investmentindustries, 20 years ago, they had
the data and the interpretation.
We're just now getting the ability toreally gather it at a rate that's usable.
Brian Searl (09:28):
What do you
think about that, Mike?
'cause I know you use a lot of analyticalsfrom camps Spot and other places.
Mike Harrison (09:35):
What do I think about?
Brian Searl (09:36):
The data that
he's talking about that might
be missing in our industry?
That's what you're talking about Robert?
Robert Preston (09:41):
Yeah.
Just the lack of centralized data.
Mike Harrison (09:44):
Yeah.
And how AI plays into it orjust the general data comment?
Brian Searl (09:47):
How you, because the data
is missing, AI can't do the, I think I'm
understanding Robert, the comprehensiveanalysis that we can do in other
industries, like financial hotels thathave more of that data available to us.
Robert Preston (09:59):
Yeah, to some extent.
I think the AI part of it is catchingup quickly in that, it now can search
everyone's websites and find the ratesfor today and so on and so forth.
So we're probably getting reallyclose, but in the past it was, there
was no centralized place that, oranyone that was putting the effort into
aggregating the data at a national level.
Sandy Ellingson (10:20):
And it's not
just that the data's missing,
it's that the data is dirty.
Robert Preston (10:25):
Correct.
Sandy Ellingson (10:25):
'Cause if you're
looking for an RV park and AI is looking
for an RV park, it doesn't know thedifference between a transient park and
a long term stay park and, a 55+ park.
And when you merge all those numberstogether, all you get is diluted data.
Robert Preston (10:42):
And frankly,
I think the industry still
doesn't know what's a campground,what's a park, what's a resort.
The names are thrown around it justso it's, bad data embedded out.
Mike Harrison (10:51):
Yeah.
And you may have seen,
Sandy Ellingson (10:51):
I've been working
on my project for four years.
Come join me on my bandwagon, okay?
Robert Preston (10:56):
Yeah, there you go.
Mike Harrison (10:58):
You may have seen that
OHI announced, that they're basically,
one of their missions right now isto normalize and aggregate the data.
They're working with both Sage Outdoorand a couple other partners to exactly
describe what you do, what you justdescribed, which is, categorize.
Robert Preston (11:14):
Right.
Mike Harrison (11:14):
Some of the campgrounds,
large, upscale, glamping, et cetera.
And one of the main reasons is alsoso that, we can get the tax code
change for the REITs so that theycan invest in the space as well.
So clearly that has been, to yourpoint, something that has been on the
what's been missing from the industry.
But it's not gonna take two months,or three months or six months.
This will be, 12, 18 month process.
(11:36):
But we needed the National Association.
We needed a champion, soto speak, to help lead it.
And, the National Associationhas taken that under their wing,
along with a couple of the otherpartners to help, get that done.
So when that happens, I think there'llat least be a common semantic, so that
you can somewhat categorize properties.
It won't be perfect.
There are so many.
(11:57):
Yeah, but the hotel business atleast is, a little bit cleaner.
But if you think of the star report from25 years ago, there was like one category
and then there was two, and then therewas four, and now there's, you can get
upscale, midscale, luxury, et cetera.
As they've expanded the brandingand types of properties.
And I think, this will start outwith, four or five or six categories.
(12:19):
And then we'll evolveas they, they tweak it.
But, I think we gotta get thefirst iteration done first
to see what it looks like.
And once that happens, I think there'll beconsiderably more data from an investment
and a analytical, reflection side.
That will be helpful.
Brian Searl (12:35):
Okay, so I finally
figured out what's going on here
with all the cameras and the sources.
So we have, Britt is on here but Istarted, apparently I started this stream
in like vertical mode and I can onlyshow like certain number of sources.
So Britt's there, can we hear you Britt?
Britt Roth (12:48):
Yeah, can you hear me?
Brian Searl (12:49):
Yep.
See we can hear right now, butAngele is hidden and so is James.
So we're gonna have to just flip thesepeople back and forth 'cause it will only
let me put five people on camera and itwon't let me change it to the stream mode.
So everybody watching on Facebookis like, why are they in mobile
vertical orientation right now?
But that's why, just 'cause I didn'tclick the right button before we started.
'cause I'm not used to beingoutside confines in my studio.
(13:10):
They don't let me out much.
You guys tell right?
Sandy Ellingson (13:13):
Remove my picture
because I have a big enough mouth.
People will hear me without it.
Brian Searl (13:18):
Yeah?
We'll swap people inand out as we go, right?
So like enough about not enough aboutAI we could talk about AI forever.
Everybody knows that who knows me.
But is there anything that cameacross like your desk, Sandy or
Robert, that you think is important?
And then we'll go around Iwanna go quickly and introduce
Britt and James and Angele here.
We'll get them on tosay their introductions.
Sandy Ellingson (13:37):
I've been looking
at some of the takeaways from the 4th
of July and talking with a lot of mydifferent park types all across the board.
What was interestingwas there was no norm.
We had parks that were freakingout because they were going into
the 4th of July weekend and theyweren't sold out, and then within
the last few days they sold out.
And so I think the bookingwindow is dropping again.
(14:00):
We also had parks that are seeingincreases in their bookings when
they're forcing bookings, likelonger days and, but giving them the
flexibility of arriving early on Fridaymorning or leaving late on Sunday.
So parks, there's a lot of creativethings they're doing to try and increase
their their bookings and their occupancy.
(14:22):
But it's, parks were still, therewere a lot of parks that were
just not full for 4th of July.
And it was if I was followingand doing, using all my listening
tools to the campers, they werelike, oh my gosh, this was awesome.
'cause we didn't know if we couldgo to the last minute and there were
actually sites and places we could go.
So I think the campers areloving that, that they can make
(14:45):
these last minute decisions.
But the other thing I heard was, whichreally made me happy, a lot of my parks
reporting that they're getting more andmore requests for tent camping sites or
for car camping sites, which does notmean homeless people living in their cars.
It means, younger.
Brian Searl (15:02):
It means your Tesla model Y.
I watched a video of that on YouTubewhere this guy that does road tripping
throughout Europe and it folds down.
There's an inflatable mattressand like a pillow and all kind.
Yeah.
Sandy Ellingson (15:11):
Yeah.
We had a guy in one of my parks inthe panhandle that his investment on
his outdoor camping that was a partof his truck was almost $50,000.
That's the cost of a travel trailer.
So we're gonna say no to car camping.
And he considered himself acar camper because it all came
off's, wasn the truck bed, so.
Brian Searl (15:33):
That's a whole
'nother existential debate.
Like maybe we could into thatlater after we introduce everybody.
But that's a whole 'nother thing.
Like the, 'cause we've talked aboutthis on the show before, right?
Like, how do you decide who you denyand don't deny at your campground?
And there's old adages that I thinkthat have been around for some time
that still sometimes makes sense, stillsometimes don't, I'm not an operator.
I'm not the one to tell you that,but like the age on the rigs.
(15:55):
Is it 10 years?
Is it 15 years?
Is there a uniform rule for whensomething gets rusty and disgusting?
I don't know.
Who am I to say?
But in an age where the economy isbecoming more competitive and not
everybody is rushing out to go campingeverywhere all the time like they did in
2021, 2022, I think you have to be morethoughtful and strategic and maybe you
(16:15):
just don't turn away as much businessas you otherwise would by default.
What do we think about that?
Sandy Ellingson (16:21):
I think
you're absolutely right.
I think it's that old story about theroast where, I think I probably told
it on the show before, but the husbandkept asking the wife why she cut the end
of the roast off and the moral to thestory was, they went all the way back
three generations and the grandmothersaid, I don't know why you do it, but I
did it because my pan wasn't big enough.
(16:42):
And it's so true.
We continue to do things in the campingindustry like saying we don't want tent
campers because we evolved above it.
And now we don't wanna go backbecause we don't understand how
tent camping has also evolved.
Brian Searl (16:59):
It's interesting, like we
have a guy who was on the show a couple
weeks ago, I can't remember his name.
I can't remember what I had forbreakfast anymore, so don't be
offended if you're watching.
But we invited him to be recurring guestand he had a business that we started
in, his whole goal was to appeal towardtent campers, but give them the kind
of handholding and setup and luxuryexperience, like not glamping, tents.
(17:19):
And he was charging like $400 or $500 anight for 'em and seeing a ton of success.
So I think it's all on howyou approach the experience.
Sandy Ellingson (17:27):
The biggest thing I
think we've gotta readdress is what
is the entry level into camping?
We have a whole new generation whoseparents didn't raise them to camp,
and we also have a whole generationwho's still now living at home
because of whatever the economics are.
So, what I call the gatewaydrug into camping is missing.
There is no way they can get intowell, RVing more than camping.
Brian Searl (17:50):
So that's the key, right?
So what is the definition of camping?
The people in the RV industrywill tell you one thing.
People tend to tell yousomething different.
Sandy Ellingson (17:58):
Yeah.
And I'm even telling my industrypeople that they need to think about
some of this stuff that they can do.
Think of the products andthings as lead gen tools, right?
They're the gateway drugs.
They're not an RV yet, but that doesn'tmean that you can't help produce some
of those things and add value to 'em.
Even with, I was meeting with ateam from Toyota last week 'cause
(18:20):
they're creating a rig that actuallyhas a camper inside, built into it.
It's gonna be sold by Toyotaas a van, not as an RV.
And and I said, you need towatch out for these things.
They're gonna be moving into that ClassB space without being considered Class
B's, and they're gonna have more qualitycontrol over what they're putting out.
Brian Searl (18:41):
All right.
Any thoughts on this from Robertor Mike before I just wanna go
around the room and just in bringingeverybody, introduce 'em real quick.
We're gonna just swappeople in and out, so.
Robert Preston (18:50):
I think to that
point, the changing in demographic,
one of the things that we're, I don'tknow if we're necessarily seeing
yet, but we're planning towards,is the multi-generational camping.
To Sandy's point, there's a lot ofpeople who still live at home, so
they're adults with their parents.
And then the opposite direction is thegrandparents now that have disposable
income, that want to go camping and doevents and they're bringing their children
(19:13):
and then thus their grandchildren.
And certainly there's a increasein the demographic of African and
American and Hispanic campers that alsotend to camp more as a larger group.
We are looking andplaying around with more.
Traditionally we would keep our cabinsin a section, and RVs in a section right.
(19:33):
And keep them.
But we're playing around and planning onsome of our newer developments to have
them more next to each other integratedso that the RVer has their RV site, and
then the grandma or whatever, whoeverdoesn't have the RV that still wants
to go in the family, they can rentthe tent or they can rent the cabin
or lodging unit that's directly nextdoor, and that becomes a package unit.
(19:55):
So that's, I think, somewhatnew to our industry that we need
to watch and keep an eye on.
And then frankly, for us we launched abrand new property and we onboarded eight
on July 1st before July 4th weekend.
We haven't done a whole lot ofexternal work or paid attention
to much with going on the industryover the last couple months.
We've been pretty tied upand heads down on that.
(20:16):
But I think there's a big sense of realitythat has now come back into the industry
from the ownership perspective and thesales and the brokerage perspective.
We're seeing real pricing startto come through, or at least,
the offers be considered there.
And then, a real, I think, I don't knowif it's positive or negative, but a real
realization from owners who thought thatthey were going to sell and then have
(20:40):
decided not to that, they are makingdecisions to sell or to move over to
management, over to a third party,or of course, continue it themselves.
That I think is gonna be a strong waveover the next couple years where owners
decide that they have to make a decision,continue to own and operate, or continue
to bring a third party management orcontinue to sell, but they're not going
(21:02):
to get, the cake can eat it anymore.
That what's happening in 22.
Brian Searl (21:07):
For the majority of people,
Robert, just asking your opinion and
then I think some of like Mike couldcertainly weigh in on this to you from
a third party management perspective.
As you look at the average, let's call'em the average campground number, right?
The mom and pop has owned it for20, 30 years or whatever, and it's
deciding what you just talked about.
Do I sell, do I keep, do I run it myself?
Do I hire third party management?
As we look at all the macro indicatorsin both the economy and inflation
(21:31):
and things that are impacting theirdecisions, both short term and long
term, what do you feel is the reasonthat they would go one way or another?
I know that's stereotypical, Iknow not everybody's the same
answer, but what's your feeling?
Robert Preston (21:41):
Yeah, there's
usually just a few things
they're trying to solve for life.
Or you could call 'em pain pointsor you could call 'em opportunities
wherever you want to classify it.
One, and I think the driver, thelead by far the driver to, for
most people's decision, is timeand energy and talent, right?
And if that is your driver, thenthere really only is two choices.
(22:03):
Third party managementor sell the property.
Either way, the driving needthere is to get back their time
and to go live their life of thegrandkids or whatever it may be.
And if that's the main driver thenthere conversely it could be you're
looking for scale and you want togo from one or two properties to 10.
You can't do that unless you eithercreate your own management company
(22:24):
or bring in a management company.
So that would be opposite ofthe spectrum, a more aggressive
approach to the growth side of it.
And so the financial aspect thencomes down to can you get the price
you could have a couple years ago?
No.
And do you wanna give up depreciation,which is significantly, with the new
bill that's passed, or significantchange in the depreciation benefits for.
(22:47):
Even this cabin thatI'm sitting in, right?
This now becomes a hundred percentdepreciable asset if you wanted
it to, because it's a vehicle,it's a piece of equipment.
So that, for a generation that'slooking for an exit, weighs in pretty
significantly in regards to whatthey're gonna do for, from tax purposes.
Brian Searl (23:03):
That is an interesting
conversation that maybe we'll circle back
to too, the new bill, because I thinkthat has some interesting tax benefits
for people that we should explore.
Mike, I'm curious whatyou think about this.
And then the secondary question I haveto you is, do you have any thoughts
on, I just coming from what I knowabout your properties, you don't
offer tent camping anywhere, right?
Any of your properties.
Is there ever anything that you thinkcould, would change your mind on that?
(23:27):
Hypothetically or.
Mike Harrison (23:29):
Yeah, no.
Two separate questions.
One is, following up on whatRobert said, time, energy, I
would also add profitability.
As a campground owner today understandand realize that perhaps a professional
management company could drive morerevenue and more profitability.
And make them more money.
I think that's certainlya deciding factor.
We're talking about mom and pop orPE or family office or whatever.
(23:50):
The why not, you also asked thewhy not what a campground owner,
and we've done this exercise,unfortunately with many mom and pops.
A lot of them are running it themselvesor they have family members running it.
And so now you have to pay our feeand then you have to pay labor that
you maybe weren't paying before.
'Cause you might be paying yourselfoutta your cashflow or, whatnot.
And so it becomes a anchor or costprohibitive solution, especially for
(24:13):
the smaller campgrounds, to reallyhire a third party management.
So there's a conundrum, when thathappens and we have a panel at the
Solution Summit West exactly, aboutthis, how do you help the smaller
campground owners that can't affordto do a management company, et cetera.
So there is no one size fits allanswer to that question because every
situation, every property, everybank loan, every proforma, every
(24:36):
market is different than unique.
And you almost have to take each oneof them, as a case by case basis.
The second question is tent camping?
Yes.
The answer is absolutely yes.
We would consider, we've played with it.
Coachella, we did do tentcamping during the festival.
And I know, I think you have Sandyoff the screen right now, but I
know she's passionate about, thecampground industry for all right.
(24:57):
And I agree, we don't want us to saybe exclusionary, but, our properties
that are certainly resorts, you have aparticular feel, but they're also bigger.
And we're not resistant to that.
We're looking at opportunities,especially as the market becomes more
competitive, our properties are larger.
Do we have a small sectioncarved out for tent camping?
And just because they're tents doesn'tmean that they're not affluent or doesn't
(25:18):
mean they're not gonna contribute,good, product to your campground.
And we're not resistant at all.
We're actually looking atit on a regular basis now.
Brian Searl (25:27):
Yeah.
I will tell you when I saw that videoand it's on YouTube, I can't remember
the guy, it's some Dutch guy I thinkthat travels around when I saw that video
of him, like putting his Tesla model Y,the new version into camping mode, and
it actually will hold the temperaturethe whole night, the backseats fold
down, Tesla actually sells a nice airmattress that blows up inside there.
And he hit that thing lookedreally comfortable, right?
(25:47):
Not a lot of space, not a lot of room.
Not saying it replaces RVs, butthere's for sure probably a big
audience of people who would takeadvantage of solutions like that, and
many other vehicles on top of Jeeps.
And Sandy was talking aboutwith the $50,000 add-on to that.
I think are an audience thatare currently probably almost
exclusively going backcountry.
And maybe a bunch of them stay there,but maybe some of them don't if
(26:09):
they have a different place to go.
Alright, it's been 30 minutes.
I wanna rock around the room,so I'm gonna pull a couple
people on and off the show here.
We have Jim's here andhe's flopping in and out.
He's not really steady I don'twanna bring him on the show yet,
but we have Angele and Britt here.
Do you guys, I'm so sorry it took me 30minutes to get to you to introduce you,
but Angele has been a regular guest forus on week four normally, we're swapping
(26:31):
her to this week 'cause we changed weekfour to an AI and Marketing type show.
But welcome Angele.
How are you?
Angele Miller (26:36):
Hi.
I am great, thank you.
Brian Searl (26:39):
Do you wanna briefly
introduce yourself for everybody?
Angele Miller (26:41):
Yeah.
I'm Angele Miller.
For me, I'm located on Eastern Canadain the province of New Brunswick.
And I own a glamping resort here.
And so I'm in the glamping business.
I have geodesic domes,mirror cabins, tree house.
I have a lobster fishingboat accommodation.
We also integrated a Nordic spaand a yoga meditation center.
(27:06):
We're also constructing now a restaurantwith Woodfired cuisine and we're also
scaling the Nordic Spa experience.
So we're really big into wellnesstourism as well, as much as the glamping.
And, yeah.
Brian Searl (27:21):
Sorry, I
thought you were done.
I apologize.
Please finish.
Angele Miller (27:23):
That's okay.
Brian Searl (27:25):
So how has your
season been so far this year?
'cause we've heard a lot about thedynamics of, let's just call it the
changing behaviors of travelers andwhere they want to go this year.
Angele Miller (27:33):
Yeah.
For us, we haven't beenaffected by things.
We're fully booked, allaccommodation, everything this summer.
But we've seen a shift that we'regetting a lot of Europeans in our
region, which is very interesting.
That's quite new.
So we have a lot of Europeans.
We have a lot of people from the Statesactually that are there right now,
especially from Eastern United States.
(27:55):
We get a lot of people from New York,Boston, those kind of region, Maine, yeah.
And we have a lot of peoplefrom Quebec, Ontario as well.
Yeah.
So we're, we've been lucky with that.
It hasn't really affected us that way,but we're also in a very touristic
region, and there's really a lackof accommodation in this area.
Brian Searl (28:15):
That's what
I think we're hearing.
I'm in Brittish Columbia rightnow, obviously I don't own
campground, but that's what we'rehearing from owners across Canada.
It's it's been a, I don't wannacall it a boon, but really good
for people in Canada this year.
'cause people have tended to be stayinghome and going camping in Canada.
So we don't wanna diveinto that conversation.
We've had that enough in the past.
But Britt, how are you?
Britt Roth (28:36):
Hi.
Great.
I'm glad to be on.
Thank you.
Brian Searl (28:39):
Do you wanna briefly
introduce yourself and talk a
little bit about your campground?
Britt Roth (28:42):
Yeah, I'm Britt Roth
and I'm one of the owners of Dark
Sky RV Campground in Kanab, Utah.
We are just above the Arizona borderabout 30 miles east of Zion National Park.
And we have about 28 sites 18 fullhookup sites and 10 electric only sites
(29:04):
that we appeal to people in small rigs.
And we consider ourselveslike a boutique campground.
We are the mom and pop thatyou guys are talking about.
I own it with my parents and my husband.
We live on site and we're celebratingfive years, and we're just learning
the ropes and this is just such a verycool opportunity to be amongst all of
(29:27):
you that are incredibly knowledgeable.
I'm learning so much.
And.
Brian Searl (29:31):
We have everybody here.
Don't count me in that group.
I'm not knowledgeable.
I just talk for a living.
Everybody else.
Britt Roth (29:36):
Yeah.
We focus a little bit on wellness tourism.
I've never actually heard thatterm, so that's really cool that we
have yoga classes and sound baths.
And we have goat walks and indooroutdoor showers that are very spa-like.
Our electric only sites originallyit's interesting we talked a
little bit about the tent camping.
We originally opened with tent campers.
(29:58):
I grew up tent camping, and so thatwas definitely a priority of ours.
And it was surprising the clientele thatwe got just were ruder, messier, more
demanding, obviously paid the lease,use our resources the most, and we just
couldn't figure out how to raise the bar.
(30:20):
And so we change those sitesinto electric-only sites.
So you can come in a van.
We have bungalows whereguests can get out.
They're like outdoor living rooms.
There's hammocks and lounge chairs,and people who travel in small
vehicles really do appreciate it.
And they can set up atent, as well in addition.
But it's awesome to havean enclosed vehicle.
(30:42):
It just creates a different experiencewhen you're sitting next to one
of these $50,000, $75,000 tentcampers that are state of the art.
And someone comes in and, rollsin with just a regular tent.
I don't know, it just doesn'tlevel the playing field.
So we've had to up the game there.
Brian Searl (31:02):
Yeah, I don't know
what the answer to that is.
I think that's probably awhole conversation we could
have on a different show.
Britt Roth (31:07):
Yeah.
Brian Searl (31:07):
About ' cause
obviously you're not wrong.
You have the experience toprove that you're not wrong.
But there's gotta be some way thatto isolate and pull those people
out because the man on our showhas clearly done that on a luxury
on the other extreme of the scale.
But I feel like there's probablypeople in the middle here
that we're missing as well.
But, so talk to us about Dark Sky.
How did you get started?
What was the premise behind it?
What did you wanna accomplish?
Britt Roth (31:28):
I was living in Austin, Texas
and with life changes, I pitched the idea
of moving into an RV with my husband.
And we had two small kids.
Ready to make a big change.
And we traveled the US into Canada andMexico and was our really first foray
into RVing and saw, we felt like areal missing piece in the RV industry.
It felt very old to us andwe were a young family.
(31:51):
And we wanted, we passed throughthis small town of Kanab and fell
in love and long story short, wenthome, sold everything we owned, and
found a piece of 40 acres here with myparents and we combined our resources
and built the RV park of our dreams.
We live here on site, so we wanted ourown curated neighborhood, I would say.
(32:13):
So our sites are spread out.
We haven't developed.
Over overall 40 acres,probably about 15 acres of it.
And our sites are about75 to 100 feet apart.
So everyone and all pull through, soeveryone really feels like they have their
own sagebrush backyard and their privacy.
And we found that, so many peoplecome back to stay with us and
(32:35):
they, they've checked the boxes ofall the national parks around us.
We've got Bryce and Zion and the NorthRim and now they just wanna stay.
They just love it here so much and it'sjust such a relaxing experience for them.
And so we're really reallyleaning into that and starting
to develop some more things here.
Like we're looking into cold plungeand saunas to really develop what is
(33:00):
like a spa, sanctuary kind of idea.
Brian Searl (33:04):
I think that's the key and
certainly Angele, you could weigh in on
this and Robert too with your experiencesand Mike's off camera right now, just
because we're swap people around.
But I think you're hitting the nailon the head of like, how do I keep
business and be recession proof, be likewe talked about the Canadian travelers
and European travelers switching theirbehavior, but also the national parks
have been having a lot of issues insome places this year too, in Utah.
(33:26):
And but what you're doing by allowingpeople to say, yes, we will come
to you to go see Zion in BryceCanyon and everywhere else, and
in Utah, all those amazing places.
But we then we also wanna come backfor you too, I think is like Angele
you have that problem too, right?
Which is a good problem to have.
Britt Roth (33:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
We have the guests who comeand we have off-road vehicles
and e-bikes that you can rent.
So we have that group of people.
There's so much to do.
That's not national parks as well,but some people just don't wanna.
Adventure.
They just wanna stay.
And really exploring what that looks like.
And people do love that.
We all live on site and we havesocial hours every Thursday.
(34:07):
My mom and I cook for now, 40 to60 guests and it's a homemade meal.
And people just can't believe that'sreal, that they don't have to pay for it.
And they love the heartand that you feel at home.
And so it's an, it was interesting talkingabout, we've been approached many times
to sell or have it be managed by someone.
And it's certainly somethingthat we think about how can we
(34:31):
maintain this level of hospitality.
But it's really important to us.
'cause, the world is rough out there andyou come here and it's like this warm
hug, if you will here and we love that.
But I know down the road it'llbe harder and harder to find good
people, good camp hosts, who wantto be an extension of our brand.
Brian Searl (34:53):
Same question to you, an
Angele, like how do you think about that?
And then Robert, I'd love your taketoo, because I know you're acquiring
a lot of parks and there's this comingfrom the outside looking in just saying
I've been involved in the industry,but I obviously don't own a Campground.
I think there's generally a train ofthought among people looking to acquire
that I need it to be by, within certainradius of a city or by a popular
(35:13):
attraction or on the river or lake,and all those are important things, not
discounting them, but then how do wepivot that and say that's important,
but also after they've seen the lakethe one time for the summer and they're
like, I could go to this lake multipletimes and so could many people, right?
But then how, or I've seen thenational park, or I've seen the city.
How do I then draw thatperson back repeatedly and
continuously just for my property?
(35:36):
Angele you do.
I think you do a really good job of that.
But Robert, I'd love to know yourthoughts after on Angele, just
how you balance that when you'reacquiring and building and managing.
Angele Miller (35:44):
Yeah,
that's a good question.
And and it's not easy, especially whencompetition gets stronger, 'cause a
lot of times what happens, like forus when we opened, we were deterred
glamping resort in our province.
And now there's probably over 55.
And in the population in NewBrunswick is not that big.
So in terms of the market share, interms of how many glamping resorts there
(36:09):
is per population it's very saturated.
So in order you have to keep excelling.
You have to keep innovating andwe have to keep, making it very
appealing to our customers.
So they keep coming here.
Why would I keep going to Creekside rand r instead of going somewhere else?
And we have guests that come every month.
(36:30):
Some, they come repetitive,it's their yearly vacation.
But for us it's really in the offeringsand the customer service that we do.
So we really make it.
Easy.
For our customers, everythingis easy from the checking
process to when they're on site.
So when they check in, we senda text and it has the door code,
(36:52):
all of the check-in details.
They don't even need to comeand meet anyone at the office
and get check-in details.
They love that.
That's a huge thing thatwe hear all the time.
Also, like the experienceinside, we go above and beyond.
So all the little details of what we do.
So for example, we know when you'reglamping you are enjoying the outdoors.
(37:13):
A lot more, right?
So you're going to have moretime to cook and enjoy time with
your family or your friends.
So we've put the green egg style barbecuesin every unit so people can have the best
cooking experience while they're with us.
Every unit has a hot tub, and I gottasay that over 90% of people that
call will ask, do you have a hot tub?
(37:34):
People, once they're having somethingand they go somewhere and they experience
something, they set the bar so differentand their expectations are there.
So we do get that repetitively, especiallyin glamping now people are starting
to ask, do I have a private sauna?
Do I have a private coal plunge?
It's like you keep adding,but they keep adding.
Brian Searl (37:55):
I want more.
Angele Miller (37:55):
You want more and more,
but you need to draw the line at some
point, but you still need to havethose added features and all these
things that bring that experience up.
So for us, we also have hugeamount of local partnerships.
That kept us strong thatkeep us very strong.
So if there's a top tourist attraction,best lobster around us, or oysters,
(38:20):
we bring all these partnershipsto offer these experiences.
So it's something theycan't get anywhere else.
It's very unique to us and our regionand the partnerships that we form.
And when people come on site, we,they can order a lot of food and when
they check in, we deliver everything.
It's all delivered intheir fridge, everything.
They don't even have to make agrocery or worry about anything.
(38:43):
And we get comments repetitivelyhow that is amazing.
And they love that.
They didn't have to gobuy grocery, do anything.
They show up.
It's all there.
They don't have to even talk toanyone if they don't want to.
For us, that's really kept a lotof people coming repetitively.
And but also like when you combine.
(39:03):
All these different offerings.
So let's say you have a food option,different partnership offerings you have
the wellness, the spa, the accommodation.
You're also targeting a huge othermarket share of audience that you
would not, if you're not doing that.
So for example, for us, we're targetingnow like corporate retreats and a
(39:24):
lot of organizations that will comewith big groups and book everything
because we have it all on site.
So we're attracting a whole othermarket audience that in the week
if it would be my slower time, andespecially in the winter, I'll fill
with these corporate organizations.
So I think it's a combination of it allthat gives us strength and keep us strong.
(39:49):
And we've been managed to keep at afive star and, we have, we're always
full and we rotate, but we reallypush the customer service as well
on top of all these added features.
And we also write notes.
That's a big thing.
So for example, let's say, Brian,you book with us we put a note.
So when you rebook, we'll rememberyour name, your last name.
(40:11):
We'll welcome you in your unit.
Hi Brian.
Welcome again to Creekside RnR.
We write that at the door.
We have a chalkboard that we have there,but if we have a guest that keeps coming
in, we keep pumping different local treesand different gifts from also, so they
know that we really appreciate that.
(40:31):
And we recognize them.
Brian Searl (40:35):
Robert, what do you think?
Robert Preston (40:37):
Yeah, great question.
We've thought about this a lot.
The answer's probably gonna be somewhatlengthy, but I'll lay it in the framework.
There is what we would call, I'llcall it the four by four, right?
The four things that we have to doand the four things of how we do it.
Because to your point thebeauty of most campgrounds is
(40:57):
that it was someone's passion.
They built it the way that they wanted it.
Britt wanted it Angele wanted it, right?
They built it and it's got a passion.
It's got, it's a amazing thing.
And that's awesome.
So how to then, can you do that at scale?
And quite frankly, I don'tthink you can, right?
There's always gonna be alittle bit of a loss there.
But on the flip side, we believe thatthere's, people have fundamental needs.
(41:21):
You have to meet those needs firstbefore you can go to the next step.
And so I think the best, illustrationhere is the steak and the sizzle, right?
The sizzle can smell awesome,be great, but if you don't get
the steak, what's the point?
And so for us, the way thatwe think about this is safety,
cleanliness, and friendliness.
(41:42):
That's the stake.
You have to have those three things.
And then it can be safe,clean, friendly, and fun.
Safe, clean, friendly and cheap.
Safe, clean, friendly and luxurious.
Safe, clean, friendly, and unique.
But without the first threecan have some success, but
it's probably gonna fizzle out.
Because at the end of the day,then you're missing one of those
key fundamental concepts of
Brian Searl (42:03):
Yeah, you need
the foundational elements.
It's like the foundational ofthe wine makers who designed
spend all their capital on thefancy bottle and the wine shit.
Robert Preston (42:10):
Yeah.
And the fundamentals.,
When I was in Afghanistan,I just wanna be safe.
I was fine sleeping on a cot inthe dirt as soon as I was safe.
And then as soon as I got that, as soonas I was safe, then I wanted to be clean.
I didn't wanna sleep in the dirt anymore.
So I'm happy sleeping on a concrete there.
And then after that, then you'restarting looking for this.
So, the psychology triangle of needs.
(42:31):
They applied to our guestsand us just the same way.
And so what I've seen, the mistake isthat in some other campgrounds that we've
went into is that it's all about sizzle.
It's all about the last component and thefundamentals haven't been put in place.
So then the way that we do that, right?
So the, how do you do that?
It's a cool thing to say, but and we'reof course always trying to get better
(42:52):
and don't do this perfectly, but thenfrom the, our side of it, then it's the
four buckets is technology, operations,facilities, and marketing, right?
Those are the then how we fulfill itto, for ourselves and for our owners.
So there's a long way around to saythat then to get the reoccurring
guests, they'll come for thesizzle once, they'll come for
(43:15):
whatever it is, the lake one time.
Maybe not Lakes.
You can come, peoplecome for a lot of times.
Brian Searl (43:21):
Yeah.
It's a bad example.
I started it, I'm sorry.
Robert Preston (43:22):
It is
a bad example, right?
You can have pretty, prettypoor hospitality and still
come to that view behind you.
But my point is they'll come, they'llcome for that one time, but if the
first three are met and they have thatfeeling, then it's likely that you
can make them a reoccurring guest.
And then, just super practical tipis that some of our best performing
parks aren't the prettiest, aren't thenicest, but they've performed their
(43:46):
own sense of community inside of that.
And that same friendly safe,clean and friendly like feel
is part of the culture there.
And they'll self-regulate someone whois violating that unwritten culture.
And that's what we hope to breed andbuild into what we own and manage.
Brian Searl (44:06):
Mike, how do you
look at it from your perspective?
Yes, Mike.
Mike Harrison (44:16):
Oops, sorry.
Sorry about that.
Robert touched on it.
We may call things a little bitdifferently or use different terminology,
but it's a similar approach, right?
If you go back to our lodging experience,we used to say execute excellently, right?
And so you gotta get the basics right.
If you have a cabin and you checkinto the cabin and it's not clean, it
(44:36):
doesn't matter how beautiful it is, itdoesn't matter where you're located.
The guest is not happy, right?
If they check in at eight o'clockand your after hours check-in isn't
working and they don't have theirpacket, they're not gonna be happy.
It doesn't matter how beautifulit is, et cetera, et cetera.
And you can use that example,however many times you want.
So execute excellently, do the basics.
Great.
We are still in hospitality,so you have to make sure that.
(44:58):
The experience for thecustomer is seamless.
You do not, we used to say, don'tprovide distractions, right?
All of those are distractionsfrom why they're there.
Now, unless you're a Margaritavilleand they're going because you're
a Margaritaville, they're usuallycoming because they wanna see Bryce
Canyon or because they wanna, kayakon the river because they want camp.
And so anytime you have a distractionin their stay is gonna be great.
(45:19):
That stay.
And so on top of execute excellentlyis experiential hospitality, right?
So we really combine those two how arewe providing experience that is unique
that, we say DNA, every one of ourproperties has its own unique DNA that
is irreparable, that you cannot copy.
Listening to Britt, or Angeledescribe their campgrounds.
They have things that are uniqueto them, that we could never
(45:40):
copy at Verde Rancher V Resort.
But how do you leverage that anddeliver that on top of the basics?
And that's when you have,a truly great experience.
Robert mentioned the fundamentals.
We all have our core pillar.
Similar for us, technology analytics.
I would add to that list.
We're passionate about analyzingthe business, whether it's
profitability wise or revenue wise.
How are we looking at the businessand continuously improving?
(46:01):
One of our values is curiosity.
If we're not asking why, if we're happywith what we did yesterday, then we're
never gonna improve and get better.
And I was looking at Angele's websitewhile she was talking, and, I don't
wanna tell her own story for her, butclearly you can tell it's a passion,
and listening to Britt, same thing.
They did something, they lookedat it, they added something else,
they did something, they lookedat it, they added something else.
(46:23):
There's a new trend here.
I want to try this.
And, being satisfied withgood is not good enough.
Is how we look at it is we're never happy.
And so I can tell by their websitesand their story that they're
constantly improving their properties.
And that's, I think, hallmarkof what that answer is.
Brian Searl (46:40):
So how does an average owner
who's watching the show balance, that is
my question because it's not easy to beclear, but I feel like it would be easier
to do those things in a only glampingenvironment or an only RV environment or
an only tent camping environment, right?
I think there are people,
Mike Harrison (46:58):
I don't think that's true.
Brian Searl (46:59):
Yeah, I want you to
argue, go ahead, argue with me.
Go ahead.
Mike Harrison (47:01):
Look at Britt
and Angele's, properties, right?
I wanna go on a lobster boat.
How cool is that?
And.
Brian Searl (47:08):
For sure.
That's why I'm sayingit's not easy, right?
I'm saying that there are differentwants and desires that someone
traveling in their own RV hasversus those who are coming to
stay in a glamping unit or a tent.
And so it's like the jackof all trades, right?
There are amenities that you canhave that will appeal to both, but
it's easier if you're going all in onglamping or all in RVing, isn't it?
(47:29):
To a certain extent.
Mike Harrison (47:30):
Know your customer.
And again, every property is different.
In some, Verde Ranch, wehave 30 glamping units.
At Buckeye, we have six, right.
We don't have the same guest or demanddriver, if you will, in Buckeye, Arizona,
as we do near Sedona in the Grand Canyon.
But they both work, right?
You can still have vacation rentals,or glamping properties at each.
(47:52):
And so I'd love to.
Brian Searl (47:53):
Sure.
But there are some things, so I'm just.
Robert Preston (47:58):
Brian,
it would be like saying
Brian Searl (47:59):
Go ahead.
We're just, I'm sorry, Ididn't mean to talk over you.
Mike Harrison (48:02):
That's okay.
Go ahead, Robert.
Robert Preston (48:04):
Oh, I
guess I'm lagging as well.
Brian's kinda saying, is it easier toput a circle peg into a circle hole
or a square peg into a square hole?
I think what Mike's sayingis that, you can't force your
customer to be one or the other.
You gotta figure out who yourcustomer is and serve them or figure
out what your park is and makesure you bring that customer there.
It can go either way, but if thedemand is for mixed glamping, mixed
(48:25):
RV, then you can figure that out.
It's not easier or harder, but you can'tforce the glamping concept into an RV
park that's not made for it, and thecustomers don't want it, vice versa.
So I'm not sure it's harder or easier.
It's just right fit or not right fit.
Brian Searl (48:42):
So I agree with that.
I mean yeah, harder and easiermight be the wrong word, right?
But if you're looking at like someonewho, let's say somebody who has an
established campground who's had it therefor 20 years, who is not deciding to add
glamping, who did that, not glamping, butcabin rentals, 10, 15 years ago, whatever.
To me, like you take the example ofAngele's, Nordic Spa, for example.
(49:03):
There is an appeal to that probablydepending on your demographic and
where you are and what type ofpeople you're attracting for the
glamping side of your business.
But is that the same appeal as theRVs who would stay at a property with
glamping, even if that's still thetype of glampers you're attracting?
Does that make sense?
That's why I think maybe harder,easier is the wrong choice.
More complex is the better word.
Robert Preston (49:23):
If you treat them as the
same business then I think you'll fail.
If you treat them as differentbusiness lines or different business
types with different customers,complete different requirements.
Can they exist together?
Yes.
But the idea that they're the same orhave the same wants or needs is not.
(49:44):
I think that's where their air is.
I've got an RV park, I'll throw threecabins on here and two glamping tents.
I'll say it's a glampingplace, and they'll be full just
dedicated glamping resorts.
No, it's not the same.
It doesn't work that way.
Angele Miller (49:57):
I can also throw in
if you'd like, into that comment.
Brian Searl (50:01):
Yeah, go ahead.
Angele Miller (50:01):
Yeah.
So for me, like with that whatI'd like to say is that, all the
national parks, as you probably know,Brian, in Canada, they're starting
to include glamping units, but adifferent style of glamping units.
So they are adding what they'recalled, more like a authentic.
They call them and they're more likea tent, safari tent style, very basic,
(50:24):
no, nothing like what a glamping.
And they're attracting maybe people thatdon't own a RV and they would like to go
camping, so it makes it easier for them.
But I know for us, with our glampingresort, we get calls all the time.
And people ask, do you have siteswhere we could park an RV or put tents?
And we would have the land to do that.
(50:45):
And we personally had made the decisionnot to do that because the type of
clientele we're bringing in, if we wouldhave the clientele that go tenting,
which is a completely different typeof clientele it wouldn't work together.
And it may take away from theclients that are coming all the time.
Sometimes also because of the pricepoint, you'll attract a different crowd.
(51:06):
Some of the people that will go tentingor camping like that may be more drinking,
staying up later, and different thingsthat ampers want tolerate for us.
So that's why we personally hadn'tmade the decision to do that.
But I know, depending on how you go aboutit or what it is and the offering around
(51:26):
it, it's not to say I don't think there'sa purpose for it or a place for it, also.
Like the national parts, I knowthe authentics are completely full
all the time, so yeah, they're fullall the time, but if you go there,
it's nothing like what we're doing.
Even though they call itglamping, to make it easier.
If they don't have power, it's justlike they have the wooden things
(51:49):
with the bed and you just bringyour stuff and it's just, yeah.
So I think it would depend on the levelof type of glamping you're considering
and how you go about marketing it sothat it matches your market of what
you're already selling to or into.
Robert Preston (52:07):
Yeah.
Brian I think I see yourpoint too, the idea that
when you add one cabin,whether it's one or a hundred,
you've now added housekeeping.
You've now added a differentmaintenance schedule.
You've now added air conditionersand roofs and walls and plumbing.
So it's, there's a scale problem toothat where you, if you are mixing them,
(52:29):
great, but it's not like you just getto put one in and your life, whether
you're a glamping and you had one RV oryou're an RV and you had one glamping,
your life changes significantly.
The life of that propertychanges significantly,
whether it's one or a hundred.
I think that's what your point is.
I think that's, very important.
Brian Searl (52:46):
I don't
know that I have a point.
I guess I'm just being, and I don'teven know if I believe what I'm saying.
I'm trying to be convinced, as Ialways am to learn from the true people
who are doing it like you guys are.
I think it's just interesting from likeI was approaching it more, I think from
an amenity standpoint of like we'retalking about how there's a perhaps
a rightful stereotype against tentcampers, in some ways who are partying
(53:07):
or being loud or being disruptive.
And so some people don'twant them on their property.
I think there are some tentcampers who aren't to force.
But those type of people wanta different type of amenity.
Even going to the basics of do I want afully stocked store or do I want cornhole
or do I want a playground for my kids?
That's different depending on youraudience and your demographic.
(53:29):
And you should be doing that marketresearch and you should be figuring that
out, especially before you're dropping$80,000, $150,000 on accommodations.
Robert Preston (53:35):
Yeah, I would add you
also need to look at your economics.
'cause adding a camp store means you'readding payroll or adding a person.
And so that's the first question I askwhen we're doing any type of development.
Is it gonna change my payroll?
'cause that's one of the mostexpensive line items we have.
And should we, or should we not, itdoesn't mean it's a bad thing, but we, I
wanna, then work through that part of it.
(53:57):
An amenity might be phenomenal andeveryone may love it, but it also
might bankrupt you, which is a badthing, so that they have to bounce
the backside of it on, what's the newexpense that's gonna be in current.
Brian Searl (54:10):
Sure.
Sandy, do you have any thoughts?
You've been quiet.
Sandy Ellingson (54:14):
No, I'm
just taking it all in.
This has been a great discussion.
I've been enjoying it.
Brian Searl (54:19):
Don't say great, I've
been out here, we've had technical
issues, like it's been great for allthe other people who have carried.
Robert Preston (54:24):
She has all the right
answers, and she's just not telling us.
Sandy Ellingson (54:28):
I always have an
answer, whether it's right or not.
It's a different story.
Brian Searl (54:33):
But what's your perspective?
And let me be clear, like we're a coupleminutes over, so if any of you guys need
to jump please, like Mike had to go,I think for another meeting please do.
We're just keeping this going for afew minutes to finish the conversation.
But Sandy, what do you think?
'cause you're mostly on theRV side of things, right?
Sandy Ellingson (54:45):
Yes.
Brian Searl (54:46):
So what's your perspective
from what we're talking we're we focused
a little bit on glamping, what's yourperspective from the RV side, briefly?
Sandy Ellingson (54:52):
I do think that
we just add another complexity to
our language that we didn't stopto define, to begin with, right?
Because it used to be glamping waswhen you were camping in an RV.
And so there's a lot of people thatare RVers that when you hear the
word glamping, they are glamping.
They're glamping in their RV, right?
(55:13):
And I don't know what other wordsyou would call it, but I think that
some of the things that are happeningwith glamping are amazing, and I
love 'em and I take advantage of 'em.
Now for me, because I'm anRVer, and I have an RV, I do it
sporadically, not all the time.
But boy, I've stayed at someamazing glamping sites, so I
think there's space for all of it.
(55:34):
But I agree with Robert, too.
Glamping is very much like in the hotelindustry or when a park adds a cabin,
which may or may not be consideredglamping 'cause it's in an RV park.
I don't know.
But there are a lot of other,
Brian Searl (55:48):
That's a good thing.
We have AI for all that, right?
Forget about the wordsand the terminology.
Just, I wanna go stay somewhere fancy.
Okay, that's called whateverdecides to spit out.
Sandy Ellingson (55:56):
And then you
gotta add the complexity of all the
hotels now getting into glamping.
There's the hotel in New YorkCity that I used to go stay at
all the time, and they literallytook a patio and put tents on it.
So now whether they're formigrants or they're for people
to stay there for glamping, Idon't know, I'm not gonna get it.
I'm just kidding.
No, they did.
It's $1,700 a night to stay inthese tents, and they open onto a
(56:20):
conference area and that's whereyou go to the bathroom it's inside.
You have to go inside, but they'regetting $1,700 a night, so it's
just a little bit crazy right now.
And it's just a matter offiguring out where your niche is.
Britt Roth (56:34):
Yeah.
Sandy Ellingson (56:34):
And then doing what
you love so that it never becomes work.
Brian Searl (56:39):
And how well
you can market that thing to
charge $1,700 a night for us.
Britt Roth (56:44):
Yeah.
Brian Searl (56:45):
Yeah.
Britt Roth (56:46):
Yeah, I just wanna say
that I fully agree with you, Sandy.
I think that there are so manythings happening out there that you
can certainly water yourself down.
But for, yeah, just for us.
Staying in our lane.
There are so many people that are sopassionate about RVs and the industry
and as are we, like that is what we know.
(57:08):
And that's how we livein our fifth wheels.
And there are so many other campgroundsjust right around us that are offering
all of the things that you're saying.
I'm not about to compete with them.
I think what we do it best in our area.
And creating that glamping experiencefor the RVers that are not used to
that creating the amenities thatmake you feel like you are in this,
(57:29):
the glamping is striking a balanceof where the trends are going.
And speaking to your point ofeconomics, we do have a store, but
everything is on the honor system.
And it's something that people lovewhen they come across it, that we
don't have employees in an office.
And we just treat people likewe wanna be treated and creating
(57:50):
that friendly, safe atmosphere.
But I do agree just, sticking in yourlane of what you're most comfortable
with, and most knowledgeable with,and most passionate about too.
And that just comes acrossin when people roll up.
Brian Searl (58:05):
Well and sticking your lane.
Go ahead, Sandy, please.
Sandy Ellingson (58:07):
I was gonna say the
ultimate thing I tell people when I'm
asked to speak on some of these topics isthat the difference between a campground
and a hotel is that you're never gonnawalk into a hotel and that manager look at
you and go, Hey Sandy, how are you doing?
How's the dog?
And you're not gonna check into your roomand go across the hall in your pajamas
and knock on the door and say, Hey,can I borrow some sugar for my coffee?
(58:31):
But in a campground, it happens every day.
It is all about the relationshipswe build and about the community
that we feel as campers.
That does not exist anywhere else.
It is totally unique.
And so if everybody else understoodthat we would be doing better, right?
(58:52):
But we need the other parts ofour ecosystem to understand that,
and that's why I fight so hard.
To help the RV industry understandthat they don't exist without us.
We are their heart.
We're the boots on the ground.
And gratefully it is happening andwe're seeing that shift and so they're
investing in us and I think it'sreally important, there's more to come.
Brian Searl (59:15):
Right, I think
it's an interesting analogy.
We'll end it on thestay in your lane thing.
And which is weird for me, becauseI'm an entrepreneur and I don't like
to stay in my lane, but I think theanalogy for that is, stay in your lane.
It's okay to build.
You could be on a one-laneroad for now, you could build
it into a two-lane highway.
You could build it into a four laneinterstate highway later, right?
But stay in your lane.
Do what you do.
(59:35):
Master that.
And then maybe addsomething and add a lane.
And add a lane, but don't gointo the oncoming traffic.
Is that a fair?
Robert, will you agree with that?
You're maybe who I would
compare myself to from a scalingpeople going in all directions,
perspective on this call.
Robert Preston (59:50):
Yeah, great illustration.
Brian Searl (59:51):
Because we hate staying
in your lane as entrepreneurs.
But I feel like that expands opportunity.
Robert Preston (59:55):
I wanna do everything.
I think the takeaway is you canstay in your lane and you can be
in multiple lanes, but you can't godown the road the opposite direction.
Yeah.
Sandy Ellingson (01:00:05):
Staying in your
lane does not mean no change.
Brian Searl (01:00:08):
Build the extra lane.
Britt Roth (01:00:09):
Yeah.
Brian Searl (01:00:10):
Renovate the road.
Pay the rock.
Britt Roth (01:00:11):
Create the new lane.
Like exactly.
And reinvent what RVingor glamping looks like.
There are no rules.
You can do whatever you want.
And that's the magic of what I thinkthe industry that we're in is that it
keeps changing and it looks different.
Every generation too, and new things,new advances, new technology with
(01:00:32):
these camping cars from Toyota.
Oh my gosh.
I can't wait to see one of those inour park, to see what it looks like.
Yeah, it's just it's everevolving and we're a part of that.
Brian Searl (01:00:41):
I want the flying card land.
It's coming.
Yeah.
Joby.
There's a bunch of goodcompanies that are coming.
But that'll be interesting too.
Okay.
Let's wrap it up for the week guys.
It was a good conversation.
Sandy, where can they learn moreabout what you do and everything.
Sandy Ellingson (01:00:56):
sandyellingson.com
is still out there, but it'smorphing into another site, and
there is a link there for some ofthe new things that we're doing.
I have a big birthday this year,which means I am actually trying
to begin investing in otherswho will keep the legacy going.
So that's what this newventure mine's about.
Britt Roth (01:01:13):
Cool.
Brian Searl (01:01:13):
I'll take a couple
billion dollars if you're
looking to invest in somebody.
Everything's, yeah, it's AI.
Sandy Ellingson (01:01:20):
Yeah.
Brian Searl (01:01:20):
I'm just saying.
Sandy Ellingson (01:01:21):
Exactly.
Brian Searl (01:01:22):
Robert, any final
thoughts and where can they find
out more about Unhitched RV?
Robert Preston (01:01:25):
Thanks
for having us on here.
Honored to be on the panel.
Thank you, Sandy.
Angele, I'm still not surehow to say it, Angele, Britt.
Thanks for having us.
Couple websites, (unhitchedmgmt.com)
for unhitched management.com,
and then unhitchedrv.com
for the brand side of it.
Brian Searl (01:01:44):
Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Robert.
And you don't have to let me know if youreally want to have that tax discussion
'cause I think it's a good discussion tohave for everybody about the depreciation
and some of those things that campgroundowners can take advantage of, so.
Robert Preston (01:01:54):
Have to.
Brian Searl (01:01:56):
Angele, any thoughts?
Angele Miller (01:01:57):
Yeah, so thank
you so much Brian for having me.
It's always a pleasure and it was verynice to meet you all and I had a lot
of fun on this podcast and, so for me,you can reach me at creeksidernr.com
or on social media.
And yeah, hopefully we'll see youin the future, in the near future.
(01:02:18):
And also, Britt, just so youknow, I'm Dart Sky certified, so
I'll have to reach out to you.
Yeah, because I saw you're Dart Sky RV,but we just got Dart Sky certified, so.
Britt Roth (01:02:28):
Congratulations.
Angele Miller (01:02:29):
Yeah, thanks.
Brian Searl (01:02:31):
Britt, last but not least.
Britt Roth (01:02:33):
Yeah.
What an honor to be amongst all of you.
And I'm like writing everyone'snames and websites down.
You can find me at darkskyrv.com.
And it was a pleasure meeting all of you.
Thank you so much, Brian forallowing me to be on here.
It's so cool.
Brian Searl (01:02:48):
Tell Sharah,
she's my podcast coordinator.
I just show up and talk to people.
I'm telling you, Ireally don't do anything.
Thank you guys for joining us foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
I really appreciate it.
For people who normally watch our secondpodcast Outwired, it is not happening this
week 'cause I'm here and Scott and Gregare somewhere else that are important too.
So we're all taking a week off.
We'll see you again next weekfor another episode of Outwired
and for MC Fireside Chats.
(01:03:09):
Until then, have a great week guys.
Thanks for joining us.
See you later.
Sandy Ellingson (01:03:11):
Bye.
Everyone (01:03:12):
Bye.