MC Fireside Chats - July 9th, 2025

In the July 9th, 2025 episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl and sponsored by Horizon Outdoor Hospitality, a diverse panel of guests discussed key trends and challenges in the outdoor hospitality industry. The recurring guests included Zach Stoltenberg from LJA and Casey Cochran from Campspot, joined by special guests Natalie Binder from Camp V and Josh Hansen and Rebecca Lindblom from Big Rock Creek. The discussion opened with introductions, where Casey Cochran highlighted Campspot’s role as an online reservation and property management system, emphasizing their marketplace for campers. Zach Stoltenberg, an architect, explained LJA Engineering’s work in designing and funding glamping and outdoor hospitality projects, noting he was joining from his cabin in Colorado with a view of Pikes Peak. Natalie Binder then introduced Camp V, a boutique glamping hotel in a restored historic mining town in Colorado, offering a mix of accommodations and an arts nonprofit for events. Josh Hansen described Big Rock Creek, a large glampground and event venue in Wisconsin, detailing their diverse glamping and camping options, alongside a barn for weddings and large events. Rebecca Lindblom, Josh’s sister, also from Big Rock Creek, later joined the conversation, elaborating on their successful Christmas Light Festival. A significant portion of the chat focused on the holiday weekend performance and revenue management. Casey Cochran reported that many campgrounds achieved 100% occupancy over the Fourth of July, highlighting Campspot’s efforts to automate revenue management by analyzing market and historical data. Brian Searl added that even with fewer camper nights, effective Average Daily Rate (ADR) management could still lead to increased revenue, potentially reducing guest issues. The conversation then shifted to disaster preparedness and emergency response, prompted by Zach Stoltenberg’s discussion of recent flooding in Texas that impacted summer camps and RV parks. He underscored the critical importance of having and practicing a disaster plan, citing a camp that avoided casualties due to robust planning. Natalie Binder shared her own harrowing experience with an electrical fire at Camp V, emphasizing that while they had plans, the actual employee reaction during an emergency is unpredictable and highlighted the need for more psychological and trauma-informed training. She also mentioned their strategy of bringing in trusted “outside contractors” for emergency coverage. Zach Stoltenberg suggested drawing lessons from amusement parks and cruise ships that conduct regular, unannounced drills. Josh Hansen acknowledged the difficulty of consistent training due to seasonal staff turnover. When asked about technological solutions, Casey Cochran noted Campspot’s dashboards could identify occupied sites, and while text messaging is useful, legal opt-in requirements limit its immediate impact in emergencies. Zach Stoltenberg also mentioned integrated hardware systems like Point Central that can automate alerts and controls within units. Ultimately, the consensus was that operators should at least start with a basic plan and rehearse it with their staff. The discussion transitioned to diversifying revenue and event-based marketing. Josh Hansen shared Big Rock Creek’s pivot to camping and glamping during COVID-19, accelerating their event business. Rebecca Lindblom highlighted their hugely successful Miracle at Big Rock Christmas Light Festival, which draws tens of thousands of visitors and effectively generates winter revenue while promoting summer offerings. She advised other operators to focus on efficient resourcing and creating social media-shareable photo opportunities. Natalie Binder revealed that Camp V’s Planet V Fest music festival also grew organically from guest enthusiasm and serves as a powerful marketing tool. She also shared how a $2 million state grant helped them build a new event pavilion. Natalie emphasized that...

Episode Transcript

Brian Searl (00:45):
Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats
here with you for another episodesponsor by Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.
A great company of park managementand accounting and all the things
they launched a company of services.
Scott Foos is normallyon the show to join us.

(01:06):
To have a couple of recurring guestshere, Zach Stoltenberg and Casey
Cochran from Campspot joining us andwe have a couple special guests today.
So let's go around the roomand just introduce ourselves.
Casey, you wanna go first?
Campspot?

Casey Cochran (01:18):
Yeah, I can jump first.
Yeah.
Casey Cochran over at Campspot,reservation system online PMS system
to help campgrounds run their business.
We have a marketplace as well forthe consumer side to help campers
and guests find their campground.

Brian Searl (01:33):
Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Casey.
Zach?

Zach Stoltenberg (01:37):
Zach Stoltenberg.
I am an architect with LJA Engineeringand we help people design, build,
permit and title and fund glampingin outdoor hospitality projects.
So we work closely with owners anddevelopers and independent operators who
want to build and start something new andexciting in the outdoor hospitality space.

Brian Searl (02:00):
Did you design where you're sitting right now, or?

Zach Stoltenberg (02:03):
I'm actually staying at our cabin out in Colorado.
My wife's family has a, an awesomecabin out here and if I look right
over there, you can just see thesummit of the Pikes Peak out there.
So

Brian Searl (02:20):
I've been up there like a couple times, but I gotta
say the view is wonderful out there.
It is, but like coming from Calgarydown to there, it's not with the lakes.
And so I'm like, yeah, thisis a nice view but Banff.
So I was a little spoiled when I camedown there, but it is a beautiful place.

(02:40):
I'll be in your situation next week.
I'm going to my parents', my girlfriend'sparents' cabin in lake Shuswap
in BC so I'll be show next week.
All right.

Casey Cochran (02:48):
Brian, I interrupt you.
Sorry to interrupt you.
I think, I don't knowif your microphone's on.
I hear Zachary really well.
You sound like you're in a fardistant cave or something like that,
so I don't know if it's your micisn't on or what, but just wanted
to give you the heads up on that.

Brian Searl (03:01):
Thank you.

Zach Stoltenberg (03:02):
Yeah, we're getting some, a bit of a feedback loop too.
Anybody that talks, I'm hearing 'em twice.

Brian Searl (03:10):
Okay.
There's usually somebodywho joins, but we'll try to
troubleshoot that in a second.
But go ahead.
We'll go around the room.
Who would like to start, Natalie, Josh
or Rebecca?

Natalie Binder (03:24):
Oh, sorry.
Did you say my name?
It's hard to hear.

Brian Searl (03:27):
Sorry.
Yeah, I'll fix my mic, butwhoever wants to start first.
Go ahead.

Natalie Binder (03:33):
Thank you.
Natalie Binder here.
I'm the co-founder of Camp V.
We're a boutique glamping hotellocated in between Telluride and Moab
outside of a town called Nararita.
And it's a historic mining town thatwas built in 1942 and we restored it.
It's over 120 acres with cabins, glampingtents, RV spaces, primitive camping, and

(03:53):
then an arts nonprofit where we also wereable to host events, retreats, weddings,
and various and a music festival.

Brian Searl (04:01):
Welcome, Natalie.
Is my mic better now?

Natalie Binder (04:03):
Yes.
That's great.

Brian Searl (04:05):
Yeah.
All right.
It was the wrong one.
I had to reboot my computer and I forgotto change it in the restream setting.
Okay.
Who's next?
Josh?

Josh Hansen (04:13):
Yeah, sure.
My view fake, by the way I can't,take any credit for that one.

Brian Searl (04:17):
We never would've known, man.
You could have just kept it silent.

Josh Hansen (04:21):
Josh Hansen, Big Rock Creek.
We are a glampground,campground, event venue in St.
Croix Falls, Wisconsin, about 45minutes to an hour from Minneapolis St.
Paul area, just across theborder in Wisconsin, the St.
Croix River Valley 980 acre property.
We've got 13 different glampsites,seasonal Camping coming next year.

(04:43):
40 different camp sites right nowbetween RV, tent, and primitive and
continuing to add on and a large eventbarn on site where we do weddings and
host our own events like our Miracleat Big Rock Christmas Light Festival.

Brian Searl (04:58):
Nice.
Welcome.
I'm excited to learnmore about your property.
Rebecca, last but not least.
Oh, maybe we lost Rebecca.

Josh Hansen (05:10):
Becky's my sister actually.
She's with Big Rock Creek too.
Back your camera's now.
Great.

Brian Searl (05:16):
All right.
We got two here.
Then we got a fallback.
So sometimes Josh will work,sometimes Rebecca work.
It'll work perfectly fine.
I should do that.
How come we don't all have clonesand if my mic doesn't work, somebody
else can just speak up for me.
Casey, you wanna be my clone?
We don't really look alike.

Casey Cochran (05:31):
Yeah.
Yeah, we can figure it out.
We'll give it a go.

Brian Searl (05:34):
Alright.
So to our recurring guests here, whatwe ask the same question every week,
is there anything that came across yourdesk, Zach or Casey, that you feel like
is important for us to discuss or share?
I know we probably wanna briefly touchon the holiday weekend and see how it was
for people, but is there anything elsethat came across you guys' desk that you.
Feel like we should talk about?

Casey Cochran (05:54):
No, in our world right now, obviously it's may, middle of the season,
we had, it was a really good 4th of July.
For the most part, for a lot ofcampgrounds, they were wildly
full with many reporting thatthey were at a hundred percent
occupancy, which is awesome, right?
So when you're getting that it justfeels good to know that, on those
holiday weekends that, for a lotof parks, they were completely,
maxed out which was awesome.

(06:14):
Our big focus right now is really on.
Revenue management and helping automate alot of that process within the software.
So right now we're in head down, datamode development mode and building a
module that's gonna help park ownersand operators, understand all the
data, to be able to price accordinglybased on what the market is saying
and what their historical, currentand future pacing data is showing.

(06:36):
So that's what's in our world right now.
But other than that, yeah we're excited.
We saw a really good June.
June year over year for same parkwas fairly flat with ADRs going up.
And so that's a good thing.
It means parks are typicallymaking more money in those months.
And we're tracking pacingfor a really good July.
In our world, what we care aboutis how many people are Camping

(06:58):
and hopefully a lot of them are.
And when they are we're happy.
And our partners are happy.

Brian Searl (07:02):
Do we care how many people are camping as long as
they're paying more than last year?
I'm not sure which way that would go.
Because camper nights aredown for some of our clients.
But again, like to your point, if they'remanaging their ADR right, in a pretty
good position, which is, it's okay.
That's one less problem childthat might leave a bad review
on Google and we're still makingthe same amount of money or more.

Casey Cochran (07:19):
Exactly.
Yep.
Exactly.

Brian Searl (07:21):
I don't think an owner would ever say that out
loud, but I said it out loud.
So Zach, anything thatcame across your desk?

Zach Stoltenberg (07:28):
I think one interesting thing just following national news,
national trends, I think everyone'sprobably very aware of the flooding,
the disasters that hit Texas last week.
And there were several summercamps that were impacted.
There were several RV parks,campgrounds that, were right along
that river in that direct path.

(07:49):
Now that we're on the backside of it andthey're looking at everything assessing
what happened, how did it happen?
What could have beendone different or better?
Or was there nothing that couldhave been done differently?
We're starting to see alittle bit more data come out.
We're starting to get the whole picture.
And I think it's very interesting.
I read accounts from two ofthese different summer camps.

(08:12):
The one that I think's been verywidely publicized throughout the media.
The Camp Mystic where they lost I think28 campers and staff in that flood,
and less than two miles down the roadis an identical, kind of kids summer
camp that didn't lose a single camper.
And I think the one difference inthere was the one camp had a really

(08:37):
well established disaster plan.
They practice it every week when the newcampers arrive, they're trained, they're
taught, here's what we do in extremeweather cases, notifications went out
communication went out, leadership and,they followed their plan and the camp was
still impacted, but everyone was safe.

(08:57):
I was listening to a video from a managerof one of the RV parks that was pretty
much wiped out and they said, they got theweather service warnings at like midnight
or 1:00 AM something, early morning hours.
They activated their text messagingsystem to notify all of their guests,
their managers on site started.

(09:19):
Making the rounds, knockingon doors, waking people up,
telling everybody to get out.

Brian Searl (09:23):
Yep.

Zach Stoltenberg (09:23):
There were RVs that were lost.
There was personal belongings thatwere impacted, but all of their
guests were able to get out in time.
All the pets got evacuated, even.
And I think, right now it's a trendingtopic 'cause it's international news
and, media loves a good disaster.
But I think it's maybe a valuabletalking point or something to

(09:44):
discuss the importance of having aplan and how you communicate that
to your guests, how you manage it.
A plan that you have that you don't followor you don't ever activate is no good.
Or that nobody's trainedor nobody's familiar on.

Brian Searl (09:57):
Yeah.

Zach Stoltenberg (09:58):
In our world of outdoor hospitality and glamping when events
like this happen, I think it's a goodtime to gut check and everybody to look
at what they're doing, look at theiroperations and say, we got lucky we
haven't encountered something like that.
But what might happen here?
And do we have a plan anddoes our staff know what that
plan is and do we practice it?

(10:19):
Are they trained on it?

Brian Searl (10:22):
Do we know, I haven't heard any reports on this, but do we know
that Camp Mystic didn't have a plan?

Zach Stoltenberg (10:30):
I don't know.

Brian Searl (10:30):
Okay.

Zach Stoltenberg (10:31):
I don't know.
I know, some of the accounts thatwere there was a basically, some
of these cabins lift up and floatedaway with kids asleep in them.
And that there was no warnings.
It's seven or eight inches ofrain in like a 45 minute span.
I've heard varying accounts anywhere from18 to 25 foot wall of water coming down.
And there was just no time.

(10:52):
There was no time to react, so I thinkeven with the plan sometimes, it doesn't
necessarily mean you escaped scot free.

Brian Searl (10:59):
No.
Yeah.

Zach Stoltenberg (10:59):
But what the one account that I was referencing was,
it was really, it was the other camp.
They're two miles away from Camp Mystic.
And there was a lot of accounts,there was a lot of interviews with
people that were at that camp.
And then when they were givingtheir accounts, they said,
yeah, like we talked about it.
We knew what we were supposed to do.
Everybody did it.

(11:20):
They still had damage.
They still had people thatwere impacted, but nobody died.
And I haven't heard any of thoseaccounts coming out of Camp Mystic.
So maybe they had a plan.
I don't know.
Maybe it was followed, maybe it wasn't.
But I know that the people who wereokay and the areas that everybody did
escape, that was one of the thingsthey talked about was, we had a plan,

(11:42):
we put it into action, we notifiedpeople, we followed it and that's
why everybody got out and was safe.

Brian Searl (11:48):
Yeah, we've talked about this a little bit on, I think we did
a show a couple weeks ago on Outwired,just about how you create different
policies and procedures and handleemergency evacuations and understanding
your situation of, where am I located?
Am I in, I can't rememberwhat they call it.
Was it Death, flood Valleyor something like that.
Is that whole area, right?
Flash flood, something 'causeof the history of that there.

(12:09):
But are you in an area where you're.
Not just low lying, butare you near, tornadoes?
Are you near rivers?
Are you near places where there arehurricanes in Florida and just beings
cognizant of the possibilities.
Fires, yeah, especially I shouldhave known that I'm sitting up
here right in BC, in Alberta.

Natalie Binder (12:25):
Yeah, we actually had a fire a year ago.
And so this is obviouslyvery near and dear to us.
I don't wish this upon anyone,but it was the night of July 3rd.
It was a really warm day.
It was an electrical fire that happenedin our only last historic cabin.
So it had this really old wiringand, luckily we were just getting
ready to go to bed and we were like,wait, someone's having a bonfire?
And then we were like,wait, actually it's on fire.

(12:47):
And it was our headquarters, ouroffice, so it had all of our supplies.
It had propane up against it.
There were vehicles up against it.
And even though we talk about havingsome of these plans in place, what
I really learned that evening isthat, how do your employees actually
react in these circumstances.

Brian Searl (13:04):
Yeah.

Natalie Binder (13:04):
Luckily my partner and I were there who I think were
able to really manage and getgasoline removed and get gas woken
up and, of course we were sold out.
However, I saw the reaction ofsome of our employees and it was
somewhat I guess alarming in thatnot everyone's meant to deal with
these emergency situations, right?
Like some of them really, it wastraumatic and they really, psychologically

(13:27):
what sort of happens to them andwhat happens to them afterwards.
And anyway it's not something I wishupon anyone but having just experienced
it, I can tell you man, so important toprobably do more training and really get
into more of the psychology of it andstuff, because no one knows how they're
gonna react in those emergency situations.

Brian Searl (13:43):
No, for sure.
Where are you located?
I'm sorry if I'm missedwhen I was walking away.

Natalie Binder (13:46):
Yeah.
In Colorado.
So in between Telluride and Moab, Utah.
So kind of high desert, about 5,000 feet.
But we have all these really maturetrees that are located right up
against, all of these cabins.
Luckily we didn't haveany wind that evening.
And so we only lost that one cabin.
But again, we had fire extinguishers,we were able to get those activated.
We had to fight the fire for the first30 minutes because our rural fire

(14:10):
department took 30 minutes to show up.
I lean on a lot of our burningman experience, like with
radical self-reliance, whichis one of the principles.
And again, luckily mypartner and I were there.
However, you can have so many plansin place, but not knowing how your
employees were also gonna react in thatsituation, I think is something that we
as operators have to, really tap into.

Brian Searl (14:29):
Do you think there's a way to figure that out beforehand?
And here's why it resonates withme and why I think, 'cause I don't
think it's a Campground issue.
I don't think it's a employeeswho work at Campground issue.
Like my girlfriend and I weretalking about this the other day.
She's a respiratory therapist ina hospital and she was saying, I'm
going around I'm training these newpeople and we can teach them all
the things and we can show them thebook and we can say, here's what

(14:50):
you should do in this situation.
But then when somebody'sdying in front of you.

Natalie Binder (14:53):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (14:54):
And you could take 18 different paths to try to save their life.
Some of them will just freeze upand they won't know what to do.
And then I have to step in andlike obviously, save the life or
can't save the life or whatever.
But there are just certainpeople who are capable of that.
Is there a way to discern that in advance?

Natalie Binder (15:10):
Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question.
I think that we probably don'tput enough emphasis on kind
of trauma response, right?
I certainly think that there's, I'mnot an expert in it, but I think that
there's experts that could come inand okay, take the deep breath, right?
Calm down, slow down.
Because time seems to be movingin this alternate universe
while it's happening, right?
I called 911 like four times, andI realized it had only been like

(15:33):
three minutes in between, and Ithought it was like 20 minutes.
However, we were pretty calm.
Not all of our employees were.
So I think that there's resourcesthat we could look into to coming in
and doing some of that training, andthen I think that you might be able to
determine who would be the lead on that.
And depending on who you have scheduledor whatnot, I think having a plan in
place of who's gonna take the lead andwho's gonna be the leader and who's gonna

(15:55):
know when certain employees need to takea time out, like right in the middle
of the fire, there was a certain pointwhere I was like, okay, go take a break.
Go sit down, go get some water.
Like it, it's okay.
We got this.

Zach Stoltenberg (16:06):
Yeah, I think

Brian Searl (16:06):
There are systems, go ahead Zach, please.

Zach Stoltenberg (16:09):
There's some examples that I would serve as
a framework at least, I think inhospitality, especially like an
amusement park or a water park, right?
They run drills pretty regularlywhere, they'll put out to the radio and
nobody knows that it's a drill, right?
That they might tell their employeeson Monday, Hey, sometime this

(16:31):
week we're gonna run a drill.
But when that call comes through,from their training, everyone knows
what their job is, what their roleis and to the point of, some people
aren't cut out to handle that.
They get flustered, they freeze.
So knowing some of those things, whenyou have an event what you need is the
key staff members who you already knoware competent, are trained for that.

(16:56):
That's their job, that's their role.
And they're comfortable and theyfeel empowered to, but I think
running drills, running simulationsdoing that regular training, most of
those large operations, they, theydo that on a very regular basis.
I've looked at like cruise shipswhere they'll run a simulation
on a lost child or something,and everybody on the staff knows

(17:19):
what their job is.
I'm a radio person, I'm a contactand any of that sort of thing.
And the same with EMS and, morehealth related emergencies, right?
You don't need everybody on your staffto be, to respond to something like that.
But, maybe having one or two key staffmembers that do have emergency and first
aid training and do know how to use adefibrillator and some of those things.

(17:40):
Identify the personalities and the staffand the characteristics that are able
to handle each one of those things.
Get them the training and, run thosetests those little simulations.

Brian Searl (17:54):
It has to be harder, I imagine and for the campground and
glamping owners here with us, and ifyou guys wanna weigh in, or Casey,
if you have data from camps, spotfrom all the parks you talked to.
And I will ask you a question in asecond about technology too, Casey,
but just for the staff, I have toimagine that has to be harder, right?
One is running the year-rounddrills isn't probably harder,
but a lot of parks have a lot ofturnover in staff seasonally, right?

(18:18):
And so it's not and I'm puttingwords into Camp Mystic, I don't
know, but I would assume like inCamp Mystic, the majority of their
counselors come back year after year.
It would be in some ways easier for themversus work campers or having people
who, obviously the ownership is thesame, maybe the managers is the same.
Is that enough or dothey need more people?

(18:40):
Or
like, how does that get handled froma somebody who knows better than I do?

Natalie Binder (18:50):
Yeah.

Josh Hansen (18:51):
I turnover piece of it.
Sorry.

Natalie Binder (18:55):
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.

Josh Hansen (18:55):
I think the turnover piece of it would be is a difficult piece of it.
I think you have to, hopefully yourleadership folks are people that stay
in place for a long period of time sothey can continue to retrain those that
may come and go over the course of time.

Brian Searl (19:11):
Go ahead, Natalie.
Sorry.

Natalie Binder (19:12):
Yeah, no I absolutely agree and in our case compared to some
of these, much bigger operations, Imean we're a small boutique operation.
It's like everyone hasto do everything right.
We're all rounders.
And as much as my partner and Iare, feel like we're there 24/7.
There's times where we need to take abreak and we need to take a vacation.
And so I think after this, traumaticfire that we experienced we've really

(19:36):
had to ensure that we've got that MODshift covered with someone who is capable
of handling those kinds of emergencies.
And sometimes we're pulling in 'causeour MOD might be really good at guest
services and it maintaining the property,but not good at that emergency response.
And so we'll call in some kind oflet's call them outside contractors,

(19:56):
whether that's like more friends andfamily that we know can deal with
that skillset and we'll say Hey,we're gonna be gone for the next week.
We just need you to stay thenight in case of an emergency.
So we're not having to do any training asit relates to like running the operation.
We've obviously got down kind ofthose emergency protocols with
them, but just knowing that we'vegot that coach or that leader.

(20:17):
Staying the night is thatMOD emergency contact.
And that's how we've dealt with this asa really small operation because like I
can't afford to go out and necessarilyhire someone who only does that or can
only cover times when I need a break.
So really you can look toyour broader community.
I'm lucky to have my mom nearby butjust various people like that who
are like community leaders who youalso have a really close relationship

(20:39):
with and you can say, Hey, Ijust need you to spend the night.
We're gonna put you up in anice cabin so that you can help
in case we have an emergency.
Because we understand the limitationsof the staff who's going to be there.
And that's just not their best skillset.

Brian Searl (20:53):
It's one thing that, and I think I read about an RV park
owner down there who drove 25 miles orsomething to his Campground, started
knocking on doors in the middle ofthe night and got everybody out.
I dunno if that's the one you were talkingabout, Zach, but read an article about.

Zach Stoltenberg (21:06):
It may have been.
Yeah.

Brian Searl (21:07):
Obviously there's no replacement for that, the boots on the
ground, but Casey, are there ways thattechnology or software can make this
more organized or more efficient orcommunicate through text message or just.

Casey Cochran (21:18):
Yeah, that's what I was gonna mention, obviously one
of the main things, so there's allthese, even the text messaging, which
obviously has a much higher openrate than, something like an email.
And in a scenario like this, it'sfor standard things where it's,
light things that are happening, yes.
Like a guest communication fortext messaging works great.
But even in that scenario,because of bylaws and things of
that sort, you have to opt intoreceiving text messaging, right?

(21:39):
Like it has to be somethingthat you've bought into and
that you've legally agreed to.
And not everyone does that.
And so for these types of scenarios,I think, yeah, a text message and some
sort of alert or something going outand technology can help from those.
But with these, extreme scenarios andthings of that sort, yeah, if you're
in one of these areas where things liketornadoes come through or things like
water levels can rise to that extent.

(22:02):
Something like that as opposed tojust a heavy rain where, site 34
and site 35 might be underwater.
Let's not drive through.
There are just, two total scenarios where,how you execute on those need to happen.
But yeah, I would say, if anything,like we still have, there's probably
1500 out of the 3,200 campgrounds thatwe work with that don't leverage tech.

(22:22):
They don't use text messaging.
And what we always suggest isjust enable the text messaging.
Even if you're not gonna use it, justenable it so your guests can opt into it.
So then if someday you ever do wantto be able to text those guests and
use it at some point, at least legallythey've opted in and you can communicate
with them that way, even if you'rechoosing to not do it right now.

(22:43):
Getting them opted in over time,in our opinion is relevant, just so
you have that, the ability to do it.

Brian Searl (22:49):
Is there anything that would help the staff though, within Campspot or
anything that you guys have considered?
And what I'm thinking of is, let's sayI'm a large resort and I have, I don't
know, 150 cabins, is there any way toquickly see which ones are occupied?
So I don't go knock on every door?
'cause I don't rememberas the owner, right?

Casey Cochran (23:04):
Yeah, certainly there's dashboards and there's reporting
in terms of, by the site type thatyou're looking at and which ones are
occupied and which ones are vacant.
Very quickly and very easily, youcould leverage, a dashboard or a
report that you print out and utilizethat way in terms of what sites
are occupied and which ones aren't.
How many guests, things like, arethere pets, stuff like that is, very

(23:24):
accessible from that standpoint.
But yeah, I mean it's a wild topicbecause, I think so many of us have
been through scenarios where ohyeah, we just had a tornado, siren go
off, a warning go off here in GrandRapids, Michigan, not that long ago.
And I'm, like an idiot probably, like I'msitting outside underneath my deck, like
this is just another windstorm, right?
You're not expectinganything crazy to happen.

(23:45):
And nothing did crazy happen, right?
It was just, it was a lot of wind.
There was some rain, and youwent back inside and said, okay,
that was a big false alarm.
But in other scenarios where somethinglike that, the threat of something that
catastrophic can happen, it's just, yeah.
It's something you needto be prepared for.

Brian Searl (24:01):
You bring up a good point too, because we did, and I don't know if
you saw this Zach, but I saw some coveragewhere they were saying the officials
from the city of Curville, I think, weresaying like we were hesitant about sending
out warnings, and I didn't get the wholestory about whether they actually did
or didn't or why they didn't or didn't.
But some of the articles are mentioninglike we just didn't wanna cry wolf.
We didn't wanna say it might floodand then every time you say it might

(24:22):
flood and then it doesn't flood, thenmore people ignore the tornado siren
or ignore the flash flood warning.
And I think like I'm of the opinion thatlike you just give the warning anyway.
But I'm not saying they didn't,I don't know that for sure.
But is that generally how.

Zach Stoltenberg (24:36):
I think most of the accounts that I've read said that there
were warnings even the day before.
The potential for flooding the.

Brian Searl (24:44):
Rainfall could.

Zach Stoltenberg (24:45):
Yeah.
The projections that they gavewere like 7 to 10 inches and they
ended up being 12 to 18 inches.
Even in that area, 7 to10 inches is significant.
So I think by most accountsthat I've read, the National
Weather Service was on it.
They reported it.
There was multiple warnings in thedays and hours even leading up to it.

(25:08):
It was one of those perfect storms, it
maxed, everything was full,lots of work outside and engaged
in activities and not paying.
And I think there were lots of warnings.
Just not all the warnings were heated.
And I think by the time the seriouswarnings came out, most people just

(25:28):
did not have enough time to react.
Yeah.
The warnings came at, at 12:15,12:30, and, everything was under
20 feet of water by 1 o'clock.
So.

Brian Searl (25:43):
Alright, well.

Josh Hansen (25:43):
Does anybody know, can a campground buy like a siren or
a some kind of system where theyalert their own campers through a.

Brian Searl (25:51):
They must be able to.

Zach Stoltenberg (25:51):
So I do know, on the building side, on the architecture
side, we've looked at several sitemanagement systems is similar to what
you were talking about earlier withyour management software and that.
There's several systems, the one that I'vespecked on a couple of resort development
projects now is called Point Central.
But it's a hardware set that sitsin your unit but it integrates with

(26:14):
your property management system.
So it allows you to change likeyour keypads on your door locks.
You can turn lights on and off.
It can respond to, in this caselike a fire alarm going off.
And it communicates all these deviceswithin a cabin or a tent back to
your property management system.
But it's two-way communication.

(26:35):
So the same way, if there was a fire alarmgoing off in a tent, it's gonna notify
your property management system, it'sgonna go off audibly to notify the guest.
And it could even be programmed tosend a text message or a phone call
to your site manager to let themknow you have a fire alarm going off
on cabin 21 or something like that.
But it also can go the opposite.
So like from that property managementsystem, you can send out a signal that

(27:00):
would go to all of those base units inall of those different cabins or tents
and you can turn lights on, you can adjustthermostats, you can sound an alarm.
And so I think you know it doesn't work.
It's not a perfect system.
It just work on every site.
It is cross compatiblewith a lot software.

(27:22):
But I think technology and as thisindustry continues to advance with
integrating some of those both activeand passive technology solutions that
make managing a site with multipleunits a little bit easier and improves
that communication, that feedback loop.

Brian Searl (27:40):
Casey, are you looking for another integration?
I know you don't have a backup list ofthings people want you to build, but

Casey Cochran (27:46):
No, we've looked that to Point Central.
It's one that we've run across for us,integrations come down to need, right?
How many of our customers have it orare willing to commit to that product.
We looked into it, we'velooked into them quite a bit.
There's a bunch of differentcompanies similar, and scope of
work and things of that sort.
I think the main thing is thecommunication system from a system like
that 100% can get to the staff, right?

(28:10):
Like the main thing is the staffis aware and then what they do
from there obviously is key.
But yeah, it's something that we'velooked into and again, based on the
adoption of, at least our customerbase to that, those are always
integrations that we're looking to add.

Brian Searl (28:25):
Yeah.
It is hard though because likedisasters can happen anywhere.
A tornado can happen anywhere.
A flood can happen.
Maybe not a flood can happenanywhere, tornado, but you
understand what I'm saying.
They're in kind of niche areas and so Iimagine that's even harder for a system
like yours to get that kind of volume ofdemand that makes it move up the list.
Alright, let's switchto something happier.
Go ahead Zach.

Zach Stoltenberg (28:46):
To wrap, found this out.
I was gonna say, I do know thatthere are experts at doing this that,
I couldn't pretend to know what aparticular site should need or do.
And, every site's different,every operation is different.
But I know that there are consultantsthat specialize in like doing disaster
plans, natural disasters, all of that.

(29:07):
Where they'll come in, they'll doan assessment of your property, your
site, they'll help you write that plan.
They'll do the training with youremployees and help you get that in place.
And there's a cost to do it.
And oftentimes having that can actuallysave you a little bit of money on your
insurance and offset the cost of whatit takes to, pay a consultant to come
in and help you put that in place.

(29:29):
But for any of those operators thatare listening, I think, we always
talk, we always start the show with.
What's new?
What came across the desk this week?
What's going on?
And I felt like that, it's beenpretty much everywhere in the news and
everybody should be aware of it, but itwas good to hit on it and address it.
And like I said there'sexperts that do that.
But I think it's a good kind ofgut check moment for everybody

(29:50):
to say, Hey, do we have a plan?
And what can we do?
And do we need to find someone reachout for help to get it in place?

Brian Searl (29:57):
Yeah, I think, keep going.

Zach Stoltenberg (29:58):
Moving on.

Brian Searl (29:59):
Yeah, the key takeaway is do something right?
And whether you have the resources to hirethat group right away or you don't go to
Chat GPT, create a basic disaster plan.
Have a starting point somewhere.
Not that it's gonna be perfect, right?
But then take that and rehearseit with your employees.
I think those are the two things.
Have a plan, make sure yourstaff is prepared to execute it.
Can we all basically agree on thosetwo things as a starting point?

(30:20):
Okay.
Rebecca and Josh, what doyou guys have going on?
Rebecca, you've beenreally quiet over there.
Can you hear us?
Oh, we still can't hear Rebecca.
She doesn't have a microphone

Josh Hansen (30:31):
Mute.

Brian Searl (30:31):
We can't hear you, Rebecca.
Okay.
Josh, start us off.
Tell us, I know you introducedyour property a little bit, but
tell us a little bit more aboutwhat you have going on there.

Josh Hansen (30:38):
Today actually we've got about what, Becky, 200 kids here
for a field trip, kids camp going on.
So if you hear screaming in thebackground, it's either my kids or
the kids that are at that kids camp.
One of the, one of the two.

Brian Searl (30:51):
You don't want the kids quiet.
We know that.
So as long as they're loud,then they're probably safe.

Josh Hansen (30:57):
That's right.
That's right.
Just finished up 4th of July.
We had a big 4th of July festival had1500 people here on site for that.
It's been a whirlwindlast week here for us.

Brian Searl (31:06):
So how long have you been open?
How did you guys get started?

Josh Hansen (31:10):
We purchased this property in 2018 and Big Rock Creek was a historical
estate basically that had been ownedby one family since the late 1800's.
And we're basically thesecond owners of the property.
It was a private estate for many years.
And they didn't reallydo anything with it.

(31:33):
So we took it and started down the roadof the event barn and doing weddings, and
then eventually moved that into campingand glamping, which became much more
prevalent and needed once COVID hit.

Brian Searl (31:47):
So from the time you were looking at this property,
you purchased it, you were gettingstarted to where you ended up now.
What changed?
What lessons did you learn along the way?
Did you end up whereyou thought you would?

Josh Hansen (31:57):
Boy I.

Brian Searl (31:58):
That's a loaded question.
Take it wherever you want.

Josh Hansen (32:01):
That's a great question actually.
Did we end up where we thought we would?
I don't know that any entrepreneurever ends up where they thought
that we're going, right?
You can have all the plans in the world,but sometimes things like COVID take
you in a completely different direction.
Our original intention was to focusheavily on weddings and events.
And when COVID happened,we had to pivot quickly.

(32:25):
And camping and glamping wasan easy area to pivot to.
We were starting the process, butwe had to move much quicker to
create revenue through our ownevents and camping and glamping.
Once weddings didn't stop for us 'causeof where we're located, we were able
to still do 'em, but they became muchsmaller and much more difficult too.

Brian Searl (32:44):
And have you seen those rebound now or like just in your
specific location or your event business?

Josh Hansen (32:51):
Becky.

Becky Lindblom (32:51):
Can you guys hear me now?

Brian Searl (32:52):
Yes, we have you, Rebecca.
Welcome.

Becky Lindblom (32:54):
Okay, sorry about that.
Yeah, I would say we're stillgoing strong with the weddings.
We've actually just recently, since inthe last, I don't know, six, seven months,
brought in a wedding director who's beenable to focus just on weddings solely.
That's been obviously a nice additionto our team because we quickly
realized, I think with Miracle Too,Miracle at Big Rock, that's really
what we're known for, which is ourChristmas festival that runs November,

(33:16):
Black Friday through January 4th.
So it's about a 38 day span,and we have about 60 to 70,000
people that come through the doorjust for that festival alone.
That's really what we become known for.
So it's been really nice to offset,I think our seasons a little bit and
bring in some revenue in the wintertime.
And then also when people comein the winter, we've been able to
advertise to those folks to comeback in the summer and then vice

(33:37):
versa when they come in the summer,tell 'em about Miracle at Big Rock.
So I think, a well-rounded,it's coming in all into place.

Brian Searl (33:45):
Josh I don't want to slight you at all, but Rebecca makes it sound
much more interesting than you do first.
Rebecca.

Josh Hansen (33:51):
She's much more interesting than I'm in general, so that's Okay.

Brian Searl (33:54):
Rebecca, I'm curious, how did you get started with like the Christmas
festival, because we've talked aboutthat, not Christmas festival specifically,
but we've talked at other times on othershows, both Outwired and MC Fireside
Chats about how there's an opportunity forpeople to diversify and to niche events.
And, the easiest low hang fruit issomething like Halloween or a July 4th
firework celebration or things like that.
But how do you get into somethingas extravagant as something that

(34:17):
attracts 60-70,000 people and thenlike really uses your land in a way
that in many areas of the countrycan't be used for camping and glamping?

Becky Lindblom (34:25):
Sure.
I would say the Christmas, we're afamily owned and operated business,
so the Christmas Lights Festivalhas always been like an imaginary
dream of ours, of something we'vealways thought we could do someday.
My mom is really a trueinspiration behind it.
My mom and my dad, and Josh said COVIDcame and there was another location

(34:45):
that opened up near us that also didthe Christmas Light Festival, and
we were just like, okay it's time.
And I think it was like May of20, was it 2020 or 2021, Josh?
Where we had a consultant actuallycome in, help us go through
and create kind of our vision.
And Big Rock Creek itself isalmost a natural landscape for this

(35:08):
because this property's always beenso established as like a working
private estate, if you will.
It was built by engineers.
So like we have 27 miles of roadwayand actual established roads
for our trail system on site.
So it's a natural fit where there wasa road that already went around our
lake and it just really, I don't know,it just evolved into this just magical

(35:33):
experience and it's been somethingthat I feel like no other place is
ever gonna replicate because of thenatural landscaping that we have to
enhance it with the Christmas lights.
And we also utilize our glampingtents in the winter time.
We actually set them up as, wecall 'em, like a VIP village.

Brian Searl (35:54):
Okay.

Becky Lindblom (35:54):
So it's almost like a winter version
of a poolside cabana, right?
Where they're set up,we have a heater in 'em.
They're all in one location.
You have a server that comesout, brings you hot cocktails.
There's a fire pit and a s'morekit right outside your door.
And then of course thetent itself is heated.
So we've just become really creative, Ithink with what we have, like you said,

(36:14):
what we have and being able to utilizeit year round has been just amazing.

Brian Searl (36:20):
If you had to talk to the other owners and operators around the,
well North America, I guess maybe theworld who are watching this what would
you say to them if they're trying to notnecessarily do something to mimic exactly
what you've done, but look at ways toopportunize other areas or other times of
their calendar to make the most of them?
How do they start?
Where do they begin?
'cause it sounds overwhelming, right?

Becky Lindblom (36:42):
Yep.
And it is, I'm not gonna lie,it is extremely overwhelming
and we've come a long way.
We've learned how to, I would sayresourcing where you're gonna get your
product from is a huge one, right?
Because shipping is always abig thing and a lot of our stuff
obviously comes from China.
And so just making sure you're aheadof the game with that sort of thing.

(37:03):
And then I would say, if you're gonnado some sort of an event, to me, I
think one of the most important thingswe've found is creating areas for
people to take pictures that they'regoing to share on social media.
Make sure you have something that,like everybody has to have that picture
because they're gonna come just for that.

Brian Searl (37:25):
Alright, anything else you wanna add that I forgot to ask

Becky Lindblom (37:29):
Josh?
Anything you wanna add there?

Josh Hansen (37:31):
You hit the nail on the head.

Brian Searl (37:33):
We wanna make sure it get to Natalie here from Camp V.
So Natalie same question toyou, I guess in the beginning.
Tell us a little bit more about Camp V.

Natalie Binder (37:41):
Yeah similar to their story, not quite as old,
but it is a historic property.
It was built in 1942 to house theengineers who were actually working
as part of the Manhattan Project.
So this is a community thatwas based in extraction.
And then all of the mines closed downin the, I guess late '70s, early '80s.
My family's actually from there.

(38:01):
I wasn't born and raised therejust because there was no industry.
So my family had to leave but I am fourthgeneration, to be back on these lands.
My grandmother was actually secretary tothe president of the Vanadium Corporation.
But the interesting thing is thatactually, I ended up in Telluride in
hospitality, and I was looking fora project to do outdoor hospitality
on, I didn't know when I put thisproperty under contract that actually my

(38:23):
grandmother had worked for the vanadiumcompany because they grew up in town.
And so I didn't know that therewas even that history there.
So that was just an interestingconnection to the land.
And we went out and raised the money.
We actually broke groundright at the start of COVID.
So that was an interesting adventurebecause the cost of materials
as we know doubled or tripled.
And like most projects going overbudget, we like really went over budget.

(38:44):
I mean it was a great time to be building.
And then we were able to activate this12 acres of primitive camping that
we have down on the San Miguel River.
'Cause the property's kind of broken upinto levels and so we were able to capture
some of that increase d camping whilewe were restoring these historic cabins
and developing the rest of the property.
And much like how their festival gotstarted during COVID, because we were in

(39:07):
a I guess a more conservative county, wewere actually able to have just a very
small gathering with social distancingduring COVID with about 75 people.
And we weren't planning on gettinginto the festival business, but
because people just really loved theproperty and felt a connection to
it, they encourage us to keep going.
And so before you knew itwe've now created this music

(39:28):
festival called Planet V Fest.
And I'll agree with Rebecca.
It's extremely overwhelming.
It's so much work to operate like anormal outdoor hospitality business
and then like layer on a festival.
'cause we're not like a year roundfestival event company, we do events,
but doing a festival or a big specialevent, so much different than obviously
weddings and retreats and whatnot.

(39:49):
And it's such a kind of a passion ina lot of respects because we get so
much great feedback and love from it.
But it's also been agreat marketing channel.
So getting that many people on theproperty for something different has
really been a great marketing tool tobook a wedding or to book a birthday
or to book a retreat because they'reable to experience the property in a
different way and be like, oh, great,this is how my wedding could go, or

(40:11):
this is how my 50th birthday could go.
And then one of the other interestingthings that happened because we are
in a rural transitional community, isthat we were able to get a $2 million
grant from the state of Coloradobecause we were impacted by COVID.
It was a once in a lifetime grantingopportunity with the surplus that
the state of Colorado had in tourism.
And so that allowed us to buildthis Strohboid pavilion tent, which

(40:34):
came from Austria, which was superinteresting, architecturally to
do another 3000 square foot eventspace, bathhouse, and a greenhouse.
We're just finishing up that grant.
And so that's really helping us inthis really remote rural destination
that we have to do more eventsand retreats because we don't get
as much drive traffic as more asestablished destinations might get.

(40:56):
This is a community that's very muchtransitioning from extraction with a
mix of outdoor hospitality and ranching.
And so yeah, it's beenan interesting journey.
Like I said we had the fire, we'vebeen in the heart of a public
lands battle where the communitydidn't want it and we wanted it.
So we signed up for obviously way morejust like social rural community side
things than maybe we'd anticipated.

(41:17):
But it's a special place and we'reproud of what we've built thus far.

Brian Searl (41:22):
Zach, what am I forgetting to ask?
You always have good questions.

Zach Stoltenberg (41:28):
I would be curious.
Just, I'm out in Colorado right now.
I actually spent last night inMontrose visiting with John with
Secret Creek out there, seeingtheir manufacturing facility.

Natalie Binder (41:37):
Yeah.
Love John.

Zach Stoltenberg (41:37):
Yeah.
So I was not far from you.
But I'm curious because that's notan easy part of Colorado to get to.
Like you said, you're so far awayfrom everything else that's there.
Where's your main draw?
Like where, I don't know ifyou've done any data or looked
at your bookings or things.
But where is your primaryguest coming from?

(41:58):
Is it locals, is it the typical two,three hour away, or is it people
passing through there maybe on theway to, like a Mesa Verde or Grand
Canyon or some other destination?
What is the draw that'smaking Camp V work so well?

Natalie Binder (42:10):
Yeah, it's interesting because after we opened and I think
that we had anticipated just gettingmore of that flow over from Moab, right?
'cause we're a little overan hour away from them.
And certainly we're stillgetting part of that, right?
When people are looking at ageo let's say Google Map or
they're looking at a traditional,like an Airbnb mapping, right?
As the crow flies, it's not that far.

(42:31):
And so we are picking up some of that,but obviously not as much as we thought.
And so suddenly we were like, wow, okay,we're in this more remote destination.
And then we're like, wait, let's makethe remote destination work and be
the positive and not be the negative.
And so we get into more of like that.
We've got dark skies, right?
We're in a dark sky preserve.
This is one of the few places that you canlike really, truly see the Milky Way and

(42:53):
that your nervous system can calm down.
And so then we had to pivotin using this rural out of the
way, place to our advantage.
And the majority of our businessthen is driven by events and that's
why people book an event there.
So whether that's a wellnessretreat, a yoga retreat or even a
corporate retreat like where I'mlike, you wanna get together with
your team in a place, but there's nodistractions, like this is the place.

(43:14):
And so we've had to go outand market much more to that.
Also because of the size of the property,there's very few places in Colorado or in
our region where you could have five, 600people and not have like noise ordinances.
Or obviously we adhere to firerestrictions when we need to, but
there's not a lot of restrictions.
So people are able to have like laterbonfires and having music going later.

(43:35):
So really the event and the retreatbusiness, those clients are coming
from within the state we get a lotof guests from the Denver Metro area
because again something that offers thiskind of peace and quiet is actually.
Kind of hard to find.
I know we've got a lot of other beautifulplaces in the state of Colorado, but they
do happen to be next to population areas,which is better for business of course.

(43:56):
But our transient guests we are gettingsome of that spillover from Moab,
some of that last minute traffic.
I'm sure many of us are experiencingthat day of bookings, which is just
harder for all of us to manage.
But we are getting that because there'sreally nowhere to stay from in between
Moab, I mean you've got Gateway, but allthe way to Telluride mantras right there.
There's really not a lot of options.

Zach Stoltenberg (44:16):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (44:16):
I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt.
Have you noticed any falloff from Moab this year?
'cause we have a lot of peoplewho say they're down 30% at Moab.
'cause the National Park issues.

Natalie Binder (44:23):
Yeah we certainly we're not seeing as much, like there were a
lot of people, I would say last yearor the year before that were basing
because they were getting shot outof Moab, and they were like, oh, wow
this, even though this is an hour anda half drive, there's Moab is sold out.
And I have seen a drop in that.
We haven't seen as much ofthat international last minute
traffic that we think is a pullfrom Moab, as we were seeing.

Brian Searl (44:44):
Yeah.

Natalie Binder (44:44):
However, because of our relationships in Telluride and of
course like Montrose in that area we arepulling a little bit more from those more
local areas, but they're one night staysbecause it's more of that staycation.

Zach Stoltenberg (44:56):
Yeah.

Natalie Binder (44:56):
Yeah, I mean it's an ongoing challenge
for us in the destination.
So we have to continuallybe really creative.
And then we have to also start doing alittle, and we are doing it more of that
outbound where we're looking for groupsand we're saying like, Hey, Van Life
Group, or, this kind of group or as anexample, you've got like the Range Rover
groups and some of those things like,Hey, why don't you come try our property?

(45:16):
So instead of relying on them contactingus, we are doing a lot more outbound
where we're calling on groups.

Brian Searl (45:22):
So what would you say, obviously we talked to Rebecca about
this, there's a lot of campgroundowners and operators watching this
and you seem to have a good headon your shoulders for marketing.
What would you say to some of these peoplewho are in maybe closer to national parks
who are seeing decreased traffic this yearor in more rural areas who are not as up
or flat as much as they were last year?
Because people are staying closerto home because of the economy.

(45:44):
Where's a place that they can startto reinvent, maybe not reinvent
themselves, but reinvent how they market,what the assets are that they have?

Natalie Binder (45:52):
Yeah, we're always say very budget conscious, and so we try to
get really creative and scrappy here.
One great resource that Colorado has,and I'm sure other states have it is
the state tourism organization, right?
So trying to host more journalistsduring this time and get some of
that really good press, right?
So like coming up with the things youhave on the property already, right?

(46:12):
We have great stargazing, sowe do a stargazing and snuggles
package where we build a fire.
We can bring in a local astronomer fora little bit more, but even without
the local astronomer, we set up abunch of pillows and we do warm cider
and cookies and we have a star map andjournalists are looking for content.
And so when we're a little bit slowerlike this is a really good opportunity

(46:33):
to get those either influencersor journalists to the property.
We do this in partnership with thestate of Colorado because they're
just great tourism partners.
And again, they're trying to spreadthat love out to the more, obviously
they do a lot of urban things, butthey are looking for these more rural
outdoor hospitality type stories.
And I think that's a great thingthat we can focus on when we feel
like we're down a little bit more.

(46:54):
And then of course, justpartnerships in general, right?
So we're talking to, to, to more, localnonprofits and figuring out either how
can we host them or how can we do thingswith them that that give us more exposure
and give us exposure to their audience.

Brian Searl (47:09):
All right.
Zach, did I miss anythingfor Josh too, or Rebecca?

Josh Hansen (47:16):
No, I think for us, as far as I love the ideas that
Natalie had there, actually Iwas writing down the stargazing.
That's a great idea.
For us as far as advertising is concernedinfluencers have been fantastic for us.
They're hit and miss.
Sometimes somebody could have ahundred thousand followers and you
get absolutely no traffic from 'em,and somebody else could come out and

(47:38):
have 10,000 followers and you getthe best traffic you've ever gotten.
I don't know if you experiencedthe same thing, Natalie.

Natalie Binder (47:43):
Yeah, totally, hit or miss.

Josh Hansen (47:45):
But it's definitely all over the map and we do a ton of stuff
on Facebook and Instagram, paid ads thatseem to be successful for us in trying
to get people that maybe don't knowabout our property because that's more
where we're trying to get our word out.
They're not exactly searchingfor us on Google quite yet.

(48:05):
The only thing that does wellfor us on Google is just the term
glamping or camping do well for us.
So I don't know if other folksdo the same thing or not, but.

Brian Searl (48:14):
I think that's a larger discussion we could have maybe on a
separate show, but that's, for surethat's where I think marketing overall
is going as we look at our clients isfocusing on that awareness piece of it.
There's so much obsession right nowwith clicks from Google and rankings and
Google and insert 200 other things, right?
But the future I think with AIand a few different tools is

(48:34):
gonna be like, just awareness.
How many answers to questions can you be?
How many times can you put yourself outthere for unique things like weddings or
stargazing or something else where peoplejust don't know yet to come look for you.
And if you can reach out to themproactively, they're like, oh, I had
never thought about this before, but wow.

Zach Stoltenberg (48:50):
Yeah, I think

Brian Searl (48:50):
Zach, you were gonna.
Yeah, go ahead Zach.

Zach Stoltenberg (48:51):
I think this is interesting this week that, both of
our guests here that are featuredin their properties a large part of
their business model really is aboutevents, experiences, all of that with
the accommodations being secondary.
I think a lot of time we've alwaystalked about one of the things that makes
outdoor hospitality unique is that it'san experience, not an accommodation.

(49:13):
And that's what kind of differentiatesit from traditional hospitality.
But I still think a lot of glampingoperators are probably in that mode
where yes, we're gonna create theexperience, but it's still really
about the glamping piece, right?
It's about marketing directly to that enduser, who's looking for an accommodation
and then delivering more, deliveringthat experience to be able to generate

(49:35):
the higher revenues and, deliversomething that is unique and special.
But I think the example that both ofthese guests are setting is taking
that even further and saying we're notlooking for just a guest that wants
to come stay with us and then, delivera really premium experience to it.
We're literally gonna buildthat around these larger events.

(49:56):
We're gonna base it solely on experiencesand groups and events and those larger
bookings that then the trickle downof that is, yes we happen to rent a
bunch of units and get to deliver thatexperience to each one of those guests.
And then by the way, we hope theylove it and maybe they come back.
They came out originally for.

Natalie Binder (50:16):
Yes.

Zach Stoltenberg (50:16):
Corporate event or retreat, or they read about it
in a newspaper magazine article.
They said, yeah, maybe we'll book our nextcompany thing out there and they did it.
And that's the excuse to get20, 25 executives out there for
two days in strategic planningand they have a good time.
Best meeting ever if you gottago to a meeting, let's keep
doing meetings like this.
But then they all wanna come back withtheir wives, with their kids, with

(50:38):
their families, that their husbands,significant others and they say, we
went out here for this work thing, butthis was awesome and let's go back out
as a family and let's do that again.

Becky Lindblom (50:50):
You're literally gaining a customer for life.
You really are.
You're building so many relationshipswith so many people that we're getting
people that are coming for 4th ofJuly and next thing they're booked
for next year, for 4th of July.
You're literally creatingsomebody that's coming for
everything that you have forever.

Brian Searl (51:09):
And I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it, but I
would think that if you start with theexperience and do the accommodations as
a secondary, even if you're doing themsimultaneously, but a secondary focus
that generally is gonna work out in yourfavor more times than the flip side would.
Would you agree with that, Zach?
Generally speaking, there are exceptions.

Zach Stoltenberg (51:27):
Yeah, I think so.
And it's been interesting thoughto hear some of the discussion
about how do you market that?
How do you sell it?
How do you advertise it?
Because I think thoseare different channels.
People are going to come, they'regonna have that experience.
They may end up becoming a customerfor life, but it's with influencers
of social media, with the changingface and clicks and ad space, how

(51:47):
do we get in front of that rightperson, to get the first stay in.
We know we can deliver somethingfun and unique and we know we'll
get 'em to come back, but we gottaget 'em there the first time.

Becky Lindblom (51:57):
Yeah.

Zach Stoltenberg (51:58):
And marketing to events, you're trying to get in front of the HR
directors for corporations and companiesand wedding planners and stuff like that.
You're not trying to get in frontof, somebody scrolling Instagram
that might be looking for a place.

Brian Searl (52:11):
Yeah.

Zach Stoltenberg (52:11):
To go with their boyfriend for that weekend.

Natalie Binder (52:13):
Yeah.

Zach Stoltenberg (52:14):
So how do you advertise to both and how do you get
'em out there for that first time?

Natalie Binder (52:18):
There's a lot of relationship marketing
that goes into this, right?
As an example, Telluridehas 200 nonprofits.
We know that they all need tohave their yearly board meeting,
retreat or whatnot, right?
And so a lot of that is showingup to their events or to their
screening or their whatever andsaying Hey, we'd love to host you at
your next board retreat or whatnot.
And we've really found that by justdoing a lot of that kind of boots

(52:40):
on the ground, like relationshipmarketing and making friends with
people and then word of mouth.
They're like, oh my God, we justhad the best corporate retreat ever.
I'm gonna tell all of myfriends at this next thing.
Or at the YPO event or at this.
And we've just found forgiven, Ithink like our location and size that
it's been more of that boots on theground relationship and word of mouth.
And almost everything we dois very organic in that way.

(53:02):
We're not getting anypaper clips like stranger.
It's like a friend of a friend.
So it's very grassroots.

Brian Searl (53:08):
Yeah.
We can talk about this forever guys, butI think we're a little bit late and I'm
sure people have a few meetings to get toanother commitments throughout the day.
So we appreciate youspending an hour with us.
Natalie, where can theylearn more about Camp V?

Natalie Binder (53:19):
campv.com.

Brian Searl (53:21):
And any final thoughts for us?

Natalie Binder (53:23):
No, I just really appreciate the discussion and this
is a, such a fun dynamic industryand as much as we can help each
other, and we're certainly alwayshere to share resources and same.
So thank you for doing this.

Brian Searl (53:34):
Thanks for being here, Natalie Josh or Josh.
Final thoughts,

Josh Hansen (53:38):
Find us at bigrockcreekwi.com
or [e-mail]
for our Christmas Light Festival.
My final thought would be you canglamp or camp early in the week, just
as much as you can on the weekend, andsometimes it's better early in the week.

Natalie Binder (53:54):
Great thought.

Brian Searl (53:56):
We have mostly owners and operators, but maybe
in the shoulder season whenthey shut down their properties.
But Rebecca, any final thoughts?

Becky Lindblom (54:04):
Yeah, no, I appreciate you guys doing this as well, and I
think the discussion is great and I,I'd be happy to be a part of this.
Like you said, we could talkabout this I think all day.
So anytime I think this isgreat and lovely feedback to get
from fellow campground owners.

Brian Searl (54:21):
Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Zach.
Last but not least.

Zach Stoltenberg (54:24):
You can find me at lja.com.
You can email me [e-mail]
or LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,all the good usual social channels.
I'd say my last kind oftakeaway that, I love that you
mentioned relationships, right?
Like it's something I think is nottalked about often enough that you

(54:48):
know someone that you have and youbuild a relationship with first, the
business becomes second and the businessalmost becomes second nature, right?
People like to do business, they liketo spend money with people that they
already have that relationship with.
And I think that's showing somewisdom coming from you that it
is that, it's that word of mouth.
It's that referral.

(55:08):
It's that relationship base, right?
We know when we come here,we have a great time.
And so that really stuck out to me.
And I think that's a reallywise way of looking at it.

Natalie Binder (55:18):
Thank you.

Brian Searl (55:20):
Thank you everybody for joining us for another
episode of MC Fireside Chats.
Really appreciate everybody being here.
The good discussion the topicswitching and learning about all
your businesses and things like that.
For those of you who aren'ttired of hearing of me yet I have
another podcast coming up in 4, 55minutes with Scott Bahr, who does
the KOA North American Campgroundreports and Greg Emmert from Verio.
And we're gonna talk about theCampground of the future today, I

(55:41):
think we're gonna look back at howthings have changed from 1975, 2025
and some different things like that.
And we'll have a follow upepisode in a couple weeks.
We're gonna talk about where we thinkit's gonna go with drones and flying
cars and all kinds of cool stuff.
We'll talk about that a little bit later.
If not, we'll see you on another episodeof MC Fireside Chats next week guys.
Take care.
See you.

Natalie Binder (55:58):
Thank you.

Becky Lindblom (56:00):
Thank you.

Zach Stoltenberg (56:01):
Thanks everybody.