MC Fireside Chats - June 11th, 2025 - MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Searl (00:45):
Welcome to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name is Brian Searl with InsiderPerks and Modern Campground.
Super excited to have you here for anothershow full of amazing, wonderful people.
We have a couple of our recurring guestswho are joining us, as always, Scott
Foos from Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.
I'll have you guys introduce yourselvesin a second 'cause you'll do a much better
job than just me pronouncing your company.
Zachary Stoltenberg, whosecompany I still am not, it's

(01:08):
not in the hang of me yet, Zach.
Like it's gonna take me a couple weeks.
Okay.
Just please don't changefor another couple years.
Is that fair?
I'm old and I'm fragile.
So Joe, and you could put your companyname and help me out right by your name.
Some advertising there.
That's the only reason I knowwhere Scott and Joe is from.
Joe Duemig from App MyCommunity, welcome back sir.
I'd love to talk about Australiaand some of your stuff and

(01:30):
experiences over there in a few.
And then two special guests we have here.
We have Elizabeth McIntosh, who's theco-founder of Back Forty Glamping.
You gonna talk to us a little bitabout her property and things she
has going on, and then we haveSarah Cruse, the General Manager of,
I'm gonna butcher this, Clayoquot.
Is that right?

Sarah Cruse (01:47):
Clayoquot.

Alright.
Clayoquot.
Okay.
I should know that.
I'm in Calgary, like I was just inVancouver Island, we were talking about
before the show, but I wasn't in Clayoquotmaybe I get forgiveness for that.
But let's go around the roomand introduce ourselves.
Do you wanna start withour recruiting guests?
Scott, you wanna go first?

Scott Foos (02:01):
Yeah, sure.
Thanks Brian.
Hey everybody.
I'm Scott Foos with HorizonOutdoor Hospitality.
We're a third party management andconsulting firm, exclusively serving
the outdoor hospitality space.
Really excited to, to be apart of the recurring panel
and to be on the show, again.
I missed last month.
I think so thanks Brian for graciouslyallowing me to return again.

Joe's really in charge, but thank you.
I'll take the credit.
Zach, go ahead.

Zach Stoltenberg (02:27):
Zach Stoltenberg with LJA we're multidisciplinary
design firms specializing in design ofoutdoor resorts and hospitality spaces.
So we do glamping camping, luxuryRV parks, boutique hotels, any
kind of experiential stays.
We help people design plan,permit and title incredible

(02:50):
places all around the world.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Zach.
Hello Joe.

Joe Duemig (02:55):
I'm Joe Duemig.
I am the owner of App My Community.
We make guest engagement mobile appsfor your guests at your campgrounds
and resorts to get communication outto them and communication from them.

Now Joe, you're back in Missouri, right?
'cause you're lagging Little bit.
Yeah.
You look like a CNN reporter who'slive during a hurricane or something.

Joe Duemig (03:15):
Let me see, I think I'm this blurred background thing.
Lemme turn that off andI'll see if it works.
Alright,

I'm just making sure.
Okay.
And then we have two special guests.
Sarah, do you wannaintroduce yourself first?

Absolutely.
My name is Sarah Cruse.
I have the privilege of being theGeneral Manager of Clayoquot Wilderness
Lodge located off shore about 45minutes from Totino, Vancouver
Island, British Columbia, Canada.
Only access is throughFloat plain and or boat.
So it truly is one of these spectacularlocations where we are disconnected

(03:44):
with our very own self-containedvillage that we have here.
There's the glampingresort, all inclusive.
So we have, just these gorgeous it'sa luxury outpost is what we have here.
It's just a 25 tents and a smalllittle outpost where we service
all of our food and beverage.
And then we have our guides that reallyare the transformational factor of
providing experience of everything fromsea to sky, including an onsite helicopter

(04:08):
for some incredible trips up in themountains or out in the oceans with our
boats for fishing or wildlife viewing.
Beautiful herd of horses as well as,cannot say enough about the hiking.
So it's one of those incrediblespecial and I can't emphasize enough
special resorts that we feel we'rethe stewards of the land here to look
after this while we entertain ourguests in the house of Mother Nature.

Awesome.
I can't wait to learn moreabout your glamping resort.
I know we were talking before the show.
Zach's been there VancouverIsland for his honeymoon.
Scott said he's been there.
I've been there.
Elizabeth, have you beento Vancouver Island?
I don't wanna leave you out.
Are you the only one orhas it been Vancouver?

Elizabeth McIntosh (04:43):
I haven't been to the resort, but I've been to Vancouver Island.

Okay.
That counts.
That's all.
Yeah, that's good enough.
Yeah, excited to hear a littlebit more about you, like
you have Oh, Joe, have you?

Joe Duemig (04:52):
No, I have not.

You've been to Australia.
That's two points better thanwe have in Vancouver Island.

Joe Duemig (04:57):
No further.

But yeah, super excited to hear about your resort.
I was just exploring there a coupleweeks ago, I think I was telling
you, and we learned, like we wentback and looked at all the old mining
logging towns and how they used tohave schools back there for all the
workers and they got abandoned and.
So it's just really interesting historyto see everything that's come and gone on
such a you look at it as not special whenyou've never been there and outside of it.
And then you get there and yourealize it has all this rich history.

(05:19):
It's pretty cool.
So thanks for being, I appreciate.
So, Elizabeth.

Thank you.

Yeah, thanks for having me.
My name's Elizabeth McIntosh and I amone of the owners of Back Forty Glamping.
We are located in Ontario, Canada.
And we've just been open a couple years.
We're definitely more a micro site.
We have six domes buildingour seventh this summer.
And we are open all four seasons,so even in the big heavy snow.

Nice.
Welcome.
Excited to learn more about,it's back forty glamping, right?

Yeah.
Correct.

I have bad eyes, so I'm just trying to I'm getting older by the
day, apparently, or maybe by minute.
All thank you.
Thanks for all for being here.
I think as we normally start these showsto our recurring guests, Joe, Scott, Zach,
is there anything that's come across.
Your desk in the last time,since we've all been together,
that you feel is important thatwe should bring up and discuss?

(06:12):
Don't wanna talk at once.

I can start.
I would say we're seeing a big push, a bigtrend with a lot of recent clients that
we've spoken with about doing off-gridsites or more things are more remote.
Some of it is economically driven,not wanting to sink 15 to $20,000
into a site for a basic septicsystem for a couple of units.

(06:38):
Some of it is more driven byrestrictions on the property
or the location where it's at.
And so I've been researching, doinga lot of, digging into some of the
options that are out there for being.
Off grid other alternativesto septic power, all of that.
So I'd love to hear from Sarahwhat their approach is on that.

(06:58):
'Cause it's a hot trend for me right now.
Something that I keep getting calls about.

Totally.
I think the beauty of Clayoquot, itwas built 25 years ago, so imagine if
you will, 25 years ago it was fairlyeasy, in this part of the world to
be able to purchase the land andthen just start building upon it.
We've since had a change ofownership in 2016, moving
onwards sorry, in 20 19, 2020.
And the biggest thing truly is whatyou're sustaining is the permits, right?

(07:28):
Being able to make sure that we haveeverything in order with our government.
And there is no ability to expand.
So we have the right footprint.
It was done 25 years ago , and we'vesecured this land in this location.
I think the addition ofwhat, and we kept it simple.
I think the idea behind this is reallyspend the money on the water system, on

(07:49):
the sewage system, on the power grid.
And two years ago, last winter,two winters ago, the company
invested and we've now got BritishColumbia's largest solar plant panel.
So we have now and here in therainforest, that's the miracle.
We are now actually harnessed by the powerof mother nature to provide our energy.
So being able to turn off thegenerators, they're there for backup.

(08:12):
But today, Zach, I'm not sure ifthis property would be able to do
what we're actually doing today.
I take my hat off to the original ownerand that crew, that grits and guts.
It was the wild west to be ableto produce this piece of paradise.
And today it's a very refined,gorgeous luxury glamping, but

(08:34):
everybody's looking for this.
You're not wrong.
That's the most popular trendand we can see it obviously in
our occupancy, in our clients.
But yeah, we probably did it completelyunder the radar and got it all done.
And then property sold and new ownership,incredible working with all of our
permits and everything's now tickety boo.
We've got everything absolutelyapproved on government level, but

(08:56):
there will be no room for expansion.

You got it done through hard work and all the
things you're talking about, right?
But also because it was 25 yearsago and they didn't, were paying
attention to as many permits.

Nobody

I think it's interesting there has to be a balance there.
And depending on which side of thefence you're on, you may lean closer
to one way with more permitting.
Or if you're protecting, youwant heavy on the wildlife.
Like I know that area, that whole leftside of Vancouver Island, aren't they
restoring that for the bears and stufflike that, or something like that?

They're trying very hard, obviously.
Wildlife protection is oneof our biggest things for the
oceans and for the wildlife.
And that's monitored veryclosely to make sure that the
protection of our wildlife comes.
I'm in a location where we're theonly, our footprint is minimal.
It's so tiny . so we don'tcross any of those barricades.
Like we're very blessed upagain, because of my location.

(09:43):
A lot of the other operators, absolutely.
Wildlife protection, oceanprotection comes first.

Yeah.

Which affects small business businesses.

Yeah.
I can't remember where we were.
We saw.
I'm gonna pop in and back out again.
I don't know why like my computerdoes this only during the show.
It'll disappear at least two moretimes and I'll come right back.
But anyway, I think we were learningabout the whole west side of that.
There's a, like the rainforest over thereand how they've been slowly restoring
it and we saw like a map of how, likeit was a map of dark green areas, like

(10:13):
green areas, whatever else, but how ithad changed so much over the last 20,
30 years as they'd worked to restoredifferent pieces and parts of it.

Yeah.
'cause they're protecting the land.
And there are restoration companieswe work with Red Fish is our
partner in being able to restoreand it's gonna be years and years.
But the fact of the matter isthere's a movement to make sure
that we protect these woods,these trees, these rainforests.
So I feel so positive for the future.

So what have you learned in some of your research, Zach?
'cause I think this is important too.
Like I think there's gonna bemore people, to your point,
seeking this stuff in the future.
Like crazy.
Like weeks ago, wetalked about flying cars.
And this is still like 5, 10, 15years away before it gets to scale.
But they're gonna be FAA approvedas early as this year, and that
opens up a whole new world of travelto remote places to go glamping.

(11:00):
So what have you learned in your research?

There's some really cool new like startup companies things
that products either a product or a systemthat is doing some really cool stuff.
One to keep on your radar.
It's new.
They just launched.
It's still in startup mode.
It's called Electric Outdoors.
They produce a completeself-contained turnkey unit.

(11:25):
I will say it, it is not a highdesign, it's not a , beautiful guest
experience and it's not meant to be.
But this unit, it's like an eightfoot by 20 foot self-contained piece.
It produces all of itsown power via solar.
It has a water collection withan internal unit that pulls like
moisture, humidity out of the air.

(11:46):
And it can do up to, I thinkit's 15 or 20 gallons a day.
Depending on the weather, obviously itis gotta have moisture to pull it out.
It's got a toilet, it's got asink shower, some bunk bed units.
It ships collapsed and then it, it deploysso the solar panels open up, decks fold
down and really competitive price point.

(12:08):
And some of those things, some ofthose are maybe great for a site
to just drop a unit and you don'thave to worry about anything.
Maybe great for a propertythat you don't own.
I'm looking at them as a potentialoption for some National Park service
stuff where, you know the operatorthat's there, they don't have a 25, 30

(12:30):
year lease, they don't have enough timeto recoup the investment that would
come from more substantial systems.
So something like this, turnkeyunit lower price, to payback.
And if need be, could be pulled offof that property and deployed onto
another site or even a seasonaloption, for some of these campgrounds

(12:50):
that they're really only fullfive, six months out of the year.
The sum cost of building astick-built structure or a modular
unit and all these systems in place.
Sometimes the juicing worth the squeeze.
We can't get it to pencil out, but some ofthese modular units, could be brought into
that site for five or six months out ofthe year and then picked up and moved to

(13:11):
a different site, during the off season.
And I think their main goal reallyis for this to be supplemental to a
class C, Van Life unit or towable RV.
Again, they're not trying to doeverything, but really interesting
company, cool stuff that they'redoing, and definitely somebody to
watch and see what happens with them.
I'd seen the Rivian inthe picture there too.

(13:32):
I think there's some sort ofcollaboration with Rivian.
And so we'll wait.
We'll see what happens.

I don't know what that squeak was.
Hopefully it wasn't from my end.
It didn't sound like it.
But so yeah, like the future of this stufffascinates me how the industry continues
to evolve, not just from a glampingperspective, but all these new companies
that are coming in and innovating anddoing things that we've never seen before.
I don't know, like maybe Scott,you have an idea of this, like
Zach was talking about picking itup and moving it every six months.

(14:01):
Let's say you take it from VancouverIsland to California or something.
What would make that costeffective for an operator to do?
Let's say you own twoproperties, one in each place.

Scott Foos (14:12):
Yeah I think a big piece of that comes down to obviously to
the cost of the unit and how they'retransported and all of those things.
But being able to, if you are an owner andyou have a couple of different locations,
being able to transport units from,again, depending on all of the different
variables that can add up pretty quickly.

(14:32):
But something that's very containedlike that makes it so much easier
in theory to be able to do.
And the return on that investmentinto that unit is exponentially
greater when you essentially have,potentially a year round use with
limited downtime for transportation.
So that's a pretty cool model and we alsosee a lot of properties that have these

(14:58):
really beautiful, they're established,even if they're, RV resorts or glamping
properties that have the part of theirproperty that's much easier to develop.
That's closer into the, maybethe on grid infrastructure.
But then there's the areas thatare harder to get into, but are
some of the best spots to get into.
And we've seen at some of ourproperties and others that we've

(15:19):
seen, you've seen like hike in Campingoptions which is, a primitive way of
being able to utilize those spaces.
But if there was a way to essentiallydrop in a structure like this into
those areas or, other other kind ofall-inclusive infrastructure options for
off-grid, I think that's amazing ways tounlock value elsewhere in your property.

(15:41):
And it's not just unlocking the value fromthat land that it's going on, that's not
really being used but, it's increasingthe value proposition for your property
overall because now you're tapping intosomething that's much more experiential.
Even beyond just what you're,potentially offering in your
developed part of the property.

But that part is big tapping into the unused land, right?
Yeah.
Like we've talked about that from anexperiential just amenity standpoint,
finding activities to do in the fieldputting up extra 10 sites or whatever.
So there's definitely a lot ofvalue in doing something like that.
Is there any sense, and maybe you knowthe answer to this Zach, like if I had
an established RV Park or Campgroundand I wanted to use something that

(16:21):
didn't require sewer or didn't requirehookups or trenching or burying cables,
or all the things that you typicallyhave to go through extra hassle for.
Is there a sense of how much, I dunno,let's say paperwork would be involved
in putting something like that up?

So as far as I know, these units are, it's completely, modular.
So they don't need to connect to a grid.
It's not a permanent structure, sothere really is no permitting piece
because you're not building anything.
They are, I think eight foot by 20 foot.

(16:56):
So they're able to be transported witha regular truck and trailer or a tilt
back tow truck or something like that.
It's fairly easy to transport.
But I think they're hittingkind of a gray area, right?
Because it's not it is nottechnically something that would
have to be permitted or built.
It's not technically an RV.

(17:18):
It is not on wheels.
So it is probably, striking that middleground which maybe isn't an advantage
at this point in a launch that they'renot really falling under any particular
regulation because it isn't reallyclassified as any one of those things.

Wonder how long it'll take 'em to catch up.

Joe Duemig (17:37):
One of the things that Scott spoke to there was the the ability
to use 'em in two different places.
I've seen a lot of parks that willrent a travel trailer or a fifth
wheel that they have on property.
I don't know that there's too many,that when they do have them, they
would move them to another facility.
And so I would think that wouldend up being much more cost

(18:01):
effective than moving these around.
And so if people aren't doing thatnow, maybe that's something they
should be doing for people thatown multiple parts that have travel
trailers that they rent out or otherwisemaybe there is a cost issue there.

Yeah.
I think that's the key.
I was gonna ask Scott thatfollow up question too.
If, assuming like it's easy in thesummer, you move it north, right?
But when the when you're moving itsouth in the winter, like that's
still warm all year round, intheory, unless you go too far south.
So then how do you decide to take itaway from that park and move it north?
And then where do you put it whenit comes back down and what do

(18:34):
you fill the empty site with?
I think that's the kindof dancing line, right?
Like I've speculated in the future, Ican't wait till we have 3D printing and
we can recycle stuff like NASA does andbuild like helmets to stay in outside
football games and just recycle 'em,tear 'em down and go to the basketball
game and build a basketball to stay in.
We're not there yet, obviously,but there's gotta be an economic
model to it and I don't knowif I see it clearly yet, but

Scott Foos (18:56):
Yeah, same.
And I think that the sub, like the subsetof properties that would actually do this
is probably fairly limited at this point,but I think it's something that could
become the whole, it could potentiallybecome another offshoot in business model.
The only other thing I was gonnaadd too, to those units and Zach
you mentioned, this is a gray areaand it seems like it's a huge need.

(19:18):
But I go back to the glamping show andyou see some of those new units come
out and they're really cool and, myoperational mind is like, how are these
gonna hold up in a commercial setting?
How easy are these going to be to clean?
How easy these gonna beable to be maintained?
And that's another elementwith some of these new things.

(19:38):
But not to be a Debbie Downer,but it seems like we're on
the right path and it's reallygreat to see these innovations.
But then at what point we getthem at scale and commercial scale
will be maybe a different story.
But I'd be curious, with Sarah andElizabeth, it's, you guys have, at least
Sarah, you do, Elizabeth, do you have anysort of off grid units at your property?

No, so we did the full nine miles, like we have a massive septic
bed and we put in all the utilities.
We have like privatehot tubs at every dome.
So we definitely went the higherend in terms of servicing, which is
necessary in order to be four seasons.
In a sense like in Ontario we getwinters that are like negative

(20:23):
30 and negative 20 and all that.
So I feel like our model has neverbeen the off grid Camping experience.
We're definitely lean more into theluxuries of being a hotel in the forest
that has all of your comforts of home.
So it's not quite somethingthat I can speak to.

Speak to back forty then.
Let's talk about you for a second.
So how did you end up, let's look,let's go all the way back, right?
How do we end up with back fortyglamping and how it looks and
how you ended up targeting theluxury market and all the things.
Where'd you start?

Yeah, so I feel like our talking about permits and stuff,
I feel like that's where everyone'sstory starts, where you have this
vision and then it gets totally changed.
Just because of what you'reallowed and not allowed to do.
And I feel like glamping and outof the box experiential stays is
something that is still new to Ontario.
Canada specifically, like I findmost stuff is in the states.

(21:18):
So there isn't really many modelsthat we could point to in our
own province to say look, theydid it, what were their permits?
And we always say that with ourmunicipality, it was like trying
to put a circle in a square.
And we are not in the rule book in termsof like our structures, our temporary
structures, but they have permanentplumbing and electrical, so they are real.

(21:41):
They count, they need permits, butit's like, how do you permit a dome?
And all of those things and putting in aseptic, they counted like our eight units
as eight houses, but obviously they're noteight houses, they're eight small things.
So our septic bed is fourtimes larger than we ever
anticipated that it needed to be.
So I found as we went through thepermit process, our vision kind

(22:03):
of got pinpointed for us, whichended up being like a good thing.
Like we had never anticipated inmaking them as high end as we did.
But it really made us find our nichemarket, which has really benefited us
being able to be a year-round market.
And to be able to specialize and curateour guests who come from the GTA, like

(22:24):
the Greater Toronto Area who aren'tnecessarily looking for a rugged.
Expansive experience, but more oneor two nights away to say you did
it and then you go back to the city.
So we are only two hours fromToronto, so not super remote at all.
And I find being pinpointedinto what our brand had to be

(22:46):
was actually a huge benefit.
And that's how it became more higherend, more luxuries, just as the rules
just kept getting more wild and wild.

I think, like we've talked about permitting so much in the show,
Scott and Zach and Joe for, everybodywho's been here on multiple shows too.
Like I think we just need to startour own political party, get elected
governor in different states to justchange all the rules for glamping.
Zach, do you wanna run?
You have a good personality.

The outdoor party.

Yeah, the outdoor party.
I like it.
But so Elizabeth, so how did youthen end up, like you're outside
Toronto, you have a good location?
I haven't explored a lot aroundthat area, but I've been to Hamilton
and, which is not two hours north.
I know.
And then Barry, we were up therefor a conference on a year, I think.
Joe, you were at thatconference Camping in Ontario.

Joe Duemig (23:33):
That was almost two hours north.
It was in Muskoka.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Muskoka.
But so you're in that area.
Obviously you can attract people fromToronto and the big suburbs that,
expands quite a bit around Toronto.
How do you decide the luxury?
'cause there's lots of people who livein Toronto and not everybody's luxury.

Like how did we decide to do more higher end stuff?

Yeah.

I think just seeing that people are willing to pay,
like we charge about $500 a night.
I know that's Canadian.
And just seeing in our businessmodel that people are wanting.
And also in that feedback.
I know like comfort was important to us,like cooling and heating obviously is
always a headache, in terms of temporarystructures and knowing that we did wanna

(24:16):
have a winter market caused us to haveto really be particular about our cooling
and heating to make sure that it was avery comfortable stay even in the winter.
And then we just always knew hot tubs asbig as a headache, they are is a huge.

Totally worth.

It selling feature.

Yeah.

Especially when we knew we were going to target couples.
And that is what our feedback says.
I know the idea of having a more naturaleco setting in terms of a wood fire
hot tub and it's all aesthetic and all,but I don't know if it's just because
of the people we attract, but I thinkeveryone really appreciates, it's hot.

(24:55):
A lot of people ask will itbe hot when we get there?
I'm like, it's electronic.

Do I have to put the wood in and do any work at all, or, yeah.

Yeah.
I find our clientele doesn't wanna doany work, so the idea, and a lot of
people are barbecuing for the first time.
A lot of people are making acampfire for the first time.
So we definitely are not really

Oh, we lost her.
Okay.
We'll get her back in a second.
And she can finish her story.
While we do, I want to get to makesure we devote time to Sarah's story.
So I don't want to start yourstory and then have it cut
off when Elizabeth comes in.
But Scott, do you wanna tell usa little bit about your travels
around the country recently?

Scott Foos (25:35):
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
And I'd love to ask your theseCanadians what their occupancy
trends are like so far this yearand how those things have shifted.
But she's back should we jump over?

Yeah, we'll jump back over to Elizabeth.
Yeah, sorry continue Elizabeth,we just lost you for a sec.

Yeah, sorry.
No I had finished my thought justsaying that our clientele is definitely
more not looking to put the effortin of an off grid experience.

So where do you see back forty glamping going from here?
Like you, you mentioned a little bitof your vision had changed because of
the permitting and things like that.
Obviously that's probably not gonnachange in the foreseeable future, but
if you had everything go right foryou, let's say next five, 10 years,
where does back forty glamping go?

Yeah, so because of our difficulty permitting and we
had a lot of neighbor pushback, wehave a very specific site plan that
isn't allowing expansion in a sense.
We have 25 acres, but we'reapproved for eight units.
So I feel like in terms of expansion,it's gonna be like another site.
But yeah, I feel like people appreciate,I don't know if we would do domes

(26:39):
again just because they do come withtheir own finicky things and headaches.

And now you know, you can just drop in Zach's little electric
outdoors thing and you don't feel it work.

Yeah.
But I do think Instagram and people areseeking a unique structure for sure.
So something along those linesof landscape hotel or I find just
like our niche is couples romanticgetaways and doing something
experiential together that's different.

(27:08):
So I think we wouldcontinue on that stream.

Oh, there we go.
We got you back.
You didn't actually leave this time.

Sorry.

That's okay.
You're still here.
We can hear you.

Elizabeth, have you ever heard of a zome?

No.

ZOME?

What's it look like?

It's similar to a dome.
But it's, they're usuallytimber built structures.
Some no exterior, vinyl.
They come to a point onthe top, on the roof.
But if you're looking for an alternativeto the traditional domes that's, it's
still a very unique, guest experience.

(27:50):
It's something that's very different.
And definitely something that we're Istarted following a couple of builders
on YouTube that were building zomes.
Now we've got companies that arespecializing in kit versions of these.

I want to, we're looking at right now, I wanna zome now.

Yeah.
Yeah, so the, these guys offer a kit.
Still pretty cost effective, butagain, for a climate like Canada where
you want a year round unit, thesecan be fully insulated fully, wired,
plumbing, electric, all of that stuff.
And they can actuallymeet full building code.

Oh, nice.
Yeah, they're cute.
They're like little teardrops.

Yeah.

This is interesting.

Yeah, and there's all different kinds
of designs, different sizes.
I've seen some really cool oneswhere they take this same structure,
but they turn it sideways.

Interesting.

And you actually enter through the pointy part.
So yeah, just a new cool structure.
We're doing a few of those on a projectthat we're working on right now.

I have it on my notes I wanna, I want to go to AI when we
get off the show, and I'm fascinatedto just understand if Instagram and
social media didn't exist, wouldpeople care as much about the beauty
of the exterior of their cabin?
What do you guys think?
Like obviously the interioramenities are very important, right?
But would they care as much aboutthe photograph ability of their

(29:09):
accommodation if they weren'tsharing it on social media?

I think it's also the experience of staying at something
so pleasantly aesthetic, like whatyou feel when you approach it and
when you're lounging outside of it.
Like it does add to thewhole experience versus.

Agreed.

Being in a hotel room.
That's how I feel whenI go to a nice hotel.
Like I'm just in a nice hotel room.
It's not like my own private unit, thathas like an outdoor and indoor experience.
Yeah.
So I feel like there still benefit.

Joe Duemig (29:45):
Also, without social media, you have your website, right?
And so for those of us that aren'tusing Instagram to pick a place and we
go to the website if it looks all, I'mnot taking tours of every cabin, but
if I see pictures and everything looksshoddy, that's probably not the place I'm

Oh, for sure.
I'm just playing devil's advocate, right?
Obviously the outsidestill matters to people.
I just mean from a perspective ofhow much does it matter when you're
just looking at it on photos andvideos and Instagram to research it?
And how much does it matter if you'retrying to like, go stay someplace
you can share with your friends.
Elizabeth was saying, like just to say,I did it right and go back to Toronto.
But it really don't needto answer the question.

(30:20):
There's not really a good one, butI was just thinking about it a lot.

I would say, I think, again, just an opinion, but I think the
way something looks on the outside rightnow, in our current market, that the way a
unit looks is what's going to help peopledecide if they're gonna come or not.
The way that it feels when theystep into it for the first time
is gonna decide if they come back.

Okay.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, I agree with that. (30:45):
undefined
'cause I feel like that is what hasled to a lot of our success, is just
what it looks like and it catchespeople's eye because it's different.
And then that causes them to go to ourwebsite, which then causes them to come.

All right.
Sarah, Clayoquot.
Tell us what you have going on up there.
We heard a little bit aboutit in your intro, but.

Oh my goodness.
I call this my heart property.
I think, when I first discoveredClayoquot, I left traditional hospitality,
very similar to what Elizabeth is doing.
Building your domes out and having thatattraction being unique and different.
It just opens up a whole line ofclientele, but also just incredible
experiences all the way around, I think.
And for me it was just a leap.

(31:28):
I call it going wild.
When I decided to jump into thewoods, I have not looked back.
I said, this is the future of hospitality.
I started the wild side in about 2016and I've been studying it ever since.
'cause it's fascinating how we livehere off grid, four months of operation
and how we handle onboard our guestsinto this experience and then have

(31:51):
them leaving a transformational state.
I meet and greet all of our guestsand I think the most incredible thing
for me that I found my first yearswhen they were leaving on the dock.
First of all, instantaneous huts.
It's just a matter ofthat's what happens here.
All barricades are down and justnaturally kind humanity comes out.
Tears, and I know why they're crying.

(32:13):
Tears of joy, tears of happiness,tears of, they're just something
inside of them has been so restored.
And it's because of this vitamin G,green, whatever you wanna call it.
I call it the House of Mother Nature.
It's raw energy.
And I see them fill up as theyspend time here on the property.
The surprise and delight is ourfood and being able to service them.

(32:35):
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
But then going off into the woods.
So our experiences are sea to sky, soable to go out on the ocean for wildlife,
viewing of bears and whales and ottersand sea lion and sea otters, seals, and
eagles is just, for a lot of people,this is a big deal all over the world.
They're coming to see one of ourblack bears, fishing to cash and cook.

(33:00):
And enjoy that we're not fishing hotch.
We do cash and release, and if we'regoing to, then we're going to make
sure that we honor that fish and enjoythat fish as part of our meal program.
Onto the canyon being able to swimin these cold, cool Canadian rivers.
It's just my joy havingthem just jump in and see.

(33:20):
You could drink the water here.
Being able to see the salmon inthe, in September is unbelievable.
We have a fleet of e-bikes now,so we're able to go up all the old
logging trails and then our hikes.
We have old growth.
And I think that's what distinguishes thisproperty is having that small grouping
of the old growth trees at the end of thetrail and having that moment where you

(33:40):
can feel these are living beings, they'realive and their energies unbelievable.
As you look at these trees and go,oh my God, this used to be the world.
And then in that moment, the worryingof a helicopter dropping down and
digging to the top of the mountain.
When you're on top of those mountains,you're looking and overseeing this

(34:01):
beautiful Clayoquot sound, bedwellsound that we have here this area,
all of our mountains untouched.
And you have that sense of just,being at one and moment of solitude.
A moment of reallyrealizing how tiny you are.
And the Glacier Lakes cold water.
I'm a huge fan.
Anytime possible, jump in, let's go.

(34:23):
'cause it just combine,brings you back to life.
All of these are naturalelements here in the woods.
Having the herd of horses, equinetherapy, just having a moment with that.
Tho those animals in itself, goingthrough a rainforest on the back of
a horse are going through a river.
And being able to see the treesin the woods at a different level.
Again, restoring, everythingwe do here is restorative.

(34:43):
We're not a wellness retreat.
We're not a wellness resort.
I often say we weave wellnessthrough everything we do.
Because you're disconnecting,you're putting your devices down.
I was brought up old school.
It was all about, cottage in Muskoka.
That's a privilege, but havingthose moments and here having
a chance to reconnect to yourwild hood, whether you're by

(35:05):
yourself or you with your family.
We've got all ages.
I've got two 80 year oldsright now celebrating their
80th together from Ontario.
Having the time of their life, no problem.
I've had up to 94 years old, I'vehad as little 60 years old raging the
canyon and saying, this is the bestthing that ever happened to them.
And seeing the parents on beingable to have all sorts of multi-gen

(35:27):
families here experiencing what we do.
It's not a bespoke kids camp.
The families go out and we do itall together because it's about
spending time together with MotherNature and having that restorative
energy reinstated with the union.
All I can hope is that, as they leave,they keep that in their hearts and
understand and how we should be behavingwhen we go back into that crazy world

(35:51):
and finding those moments of when theycan just enjoy Mother Nature at its
best wherever they are in the world.
So Clayoquot is just a spectacular storyof a vision of a fellow from Toronto that
saw an opportunity to put some tents.
And the tents are very simple.
They're either on the side of water, theestuary of the ocean or in the woods.

(36:12):
The rainforest tents.
In the bathrooms.
It's all about the bathrooms.
Either you have a beautiful bathroomattached to your tent with an
outdoor shower, or you just havea little deluxe that you step 10
steps out private to your tent.
Those talking about luxury, Elizabeth,that's what they're looking for, right?
They wanna think that they're roughing it,they're having this moment in the woods,
but all the details are looked after forthem so that they have the best sleep that

(36:36):
they've ever had because it's so quiet.
And I think all those elementschange them, fill them back up, and
send them back out into the worldso that they can just get after it.
But maybe in a kinder way, in ahappier way, because they've had a
chance to be able to rest, breathe.
And revitalize here in the woods.
So a little bit ofeverything is what we do.

(36:58):
See the sky, is how I call us.
And I think at the end of the day wehave some fun things, rock climbing
and archery for the kids as well.
And sometimes it's justthe art of doing nothing.
Let's go sit on one of those Muskokachairs and stare at the estuary.
'cause it's like a David Attenbergvideo because the water's flowing,
the ducks, the salmon, the bear.

(37:18):
It was all happening, but youhave to just sit down and watch to
see it all and evolve around you.
My love is being able to hostthis property with all of our
guests and then behind the scenes.
My nickname's camp mom, so I've got 90kids here and my kids, the staff that come
to do this are one of a kind in the world.

(37:40):
And so I have another little villagehere, and that's with all the employees
to make sure that we can bring this tolight, light and life for our guests.
But at the same time, watching these kidswork at their highest possible level.
'cause they want to be their bestevery day, and the guests feel that.
So it's really quite a dance,a beautiful dance in the woods.

(38:01):
I could go on forever, you guys.

No, I know, what you're talking about is life changing, right?
And there are people like I know, andeverybody probably on this podcast knows
there are people who say I'm an outdoorperson, or I'm not an outdoor person.
Everybody's an outdoor person.
When you're standing on top of a mountain.
You get maybe you don't want to getup there, you don't wanna do the walk
or the hike or the whatever to write.
But when you're standing on topof the mountain, if you can stop

(38:23):
and appreciate and not look atyour phone and do whatever, right?
And that's the ocean that's outseeing a whale that's I took the Inlet
tours and went up to see the grizzlybears when I was up in Port Hardy.
It's just a whole different experience.
And we were, like, Scott Bahr and Iwere talking about this and Greg Emmert
too on a, like a clickup channel wehave for the show for Outwired later.

(38:43):
And we were talking about how, like thedifference between types of vacations
that you take, sometimes, right?
And I'm used to, and Scott, you knowthis from building your company and
Joe, you know this from building yourcompany, Zach from the hustle, right?
I mean I spent 15 years building mycompany and yes, I took vacations, but
I didn't take those kind of vacations.

(39:03):
And so I went on vacation and I like,I saw new things and I went to museums
and went out to eat and went to bar,but I wasn't truly disconnected.
And I'm not saying everybody suffersfrom that, like I think it's way
more relaxed up here in Canadathan it is in the United States.
That's my own stereotypical opinion.
But until I came up here and went tolike my girlfriend's parents have a

(39:25):
cabin on Lake Shuswap, that's the firsttime that I remember actually truly,
I don't have to do anything today.
Like thinking that.

Exactly.

And it is life changing.

That's the key.
Majority of our guestsare from the States.
And I lived in the States for 15years, so it's having my brothers and
sisters back and I just get so excited.
Particularly when I see New Yorkstep off the planes and I'm just
like, oh, New York, come to mama.
Because I just know how wound up andI'm watching to see who is struggling

(39:56):
with device being disconnected, theWiFi's not available only in your tent.
So there's no wifi in the cookhouse,in the restaurant or around camp.
And it's just gorgeous to watch people gothrough the different levels of disconnect
of from rage to anger, to shakes, totrembles, to whispering in my ear, don't
tell my wife, please can I have the code?

(40:16):
And me having so much fun withit saying, is that important?
What's more important?
'cause I think this is moreimportant and that can wait.
I'm at the age now where I can be, 'causeI embrace being in my sixties is fantastic
because I can actually go up and say, comeon, you two, don't you love each other?
Do you wanna talk about this right now?
'cause I think thatyou're, hold, look at me.

(40:38):
And they lo when I see peopleholding their hands, I celebrate.
I get so excited.
I make a thing about it.
Oh my God, you're holdinghands, not holding the device.
And because life's too short, they're onlyhere for three day or four day packages.
Seven days is the luxury.
But when I only have them forthree days, come on now, you put
that thing down and it works.

(40:59):
It works.
But it's that exactly that moment whenwhat you said there, which is, oh,
I don't have to do anything today.

Yeah.

It just, that's the goal.
That's the golden nugget right there.

Hopefully more people have more of those experiences
as they shift to out grid.
Go ahead Scott, you weregonna say something?

Scott Foos (41:14):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Yeah, I was just gonna say,this week's show is, about guest
experience and in hearing Sarah talkand Elizabeth too about how they
create experiences for their guests.
It just not only is it so important tohave really unique accommodations and make
sure all the infrastructure's in placeand all the nerdy stuff that we enjoy,

(41:37):
but more than anything it's that emotionalintelligence and that emotional connection
that you can have with your guests.
And to hear Sarah say that she'sobserving her guests and like jumping
in to assist when she can and how shecan to support their stay, and the
real reason why they came is just, it'sphenomenal and that's what makes or breaks

(42:01):
it and that's what supports the rate.
And Sarah, I just, I couldlisten to you continue.
I think we just give up the rest ofthe show and you keep talking about
it, but, really it's incredible.

I think it's so important because I think we forget in hospitality.
I left traditionalhospitality eight years ago.
And so I live COVID out here, soI guess I'm the luckiest girl.
Social distancing there.
It's not a bad thing.
But, I made a life decisionthat I think this is the future.
And then watching the tired eyesof everybody back in the old

(42:32):
world, the staff not engaged.
Because the guests could feel it.
That's what they tell me.
We've traveled the world and we can seewhen our staff are just being told what
to do and servicing the coordinate.
That's not heart forward hospitality.
That's not how I was trained,brought up in the business.
And it's a hard haul out there these days.
To bring that warmth back intowhere it's supposed to be and which

(42:55):
is what hospitality is all about.
It's not just a job, it reallydoes come from the emotions.
And I think because I studiedthis, I now live in a monoculture.
So I have the ability with 90 peopleto be able to transform my employees
experience because it starts withtheir experience, transforming that
into how they perform for the guest.
Because at the end of the day,if you don't wanna be here and

(43:18):
you don't like it, hey, get out.
Because this is whywe're in this business.
And that goes right up to leadership.
That's our job, I think.
And buy that because theseguests are paying a lot of money.
$ 500 bucks a head, Elizabeth,you're charging some Bitcoin there.
Yeah.
So it's amazing.
It's not just the uniqueness ofthe location and what we offer.
It's the people around.

(43:38):
It's the hearts.

Scott Foos (43:39):
That's right.

The heart.

Yeah.
When we talk about that quite a bit.
I know, Scott, you and I have hadthat conversation before on the
show about the team members andthe importance of training them and
making them care and putting theirempathy and passion into the role.
A big piece of that though, thatwe maybe haven't touched on is
what Sarah is talking about.
They have to understand you get out inthe middle of Vancouver Island and you go
to work in Vancouver Island and ClayoquotThen all of a sudden you have the same

(44:00):
appreciation the guest does exceptyou get to wake up to that every day.
That changes, I think, how youapproach your role versus working.

Correct.

I don't wanna slight anywhere else.
But you understand what I'm saying?
It's different.

Yeah.
And I think that's whereI'm totally blessed.
And I think so, and I know that,I know I'm in a very privileged
position to be able to do that.
But as I sent everybody back outta here,into their lives, I was like, take a
piece of this with you for your next job.
Because it's hard work.
Find staff, train staff, keep staff.
I find the hospitality worldis suffering right now from

(44:33):
a recruitment point of view.

Yeah.

And I just think that we have here what we're offering, whether
it's camping or glamping or off grid, Ithink that is where everybody's going.
And all of us are goingthere for a reason.
Is 'cause we're alllooking for the joystick.
We're all looking forthat moment of happiness.
And we're finding it more andmore in a natural, in a nature
based environment where, noteverybody's screaming back at us.

(44:56):
I just think it's those of you thatare in the business of building.
I wish I was younger.
Like I just could do this.

You are young.
Wait until Medicine advancesand you live to be 150.
We're gonna have apodcast when you're 150.

That's the plan.
But anybody starting off I justthink it's fabulous what you're
doing, Elizabeth in Ontario.
That's just so exciting.
Everybody's talking Ontario.
They're looking for that kind of stuff.
Because they are looking for that.
And those of you that this is yourcompany, oh, you should be beyond busy.
I would have to think withwhat people are looking for.

Yeah.
We only have a couple.

I'm a little passionate about this.

That's fine.
That's what we need more passion, right?
Like we need more passion.
We only have a couple minutes left.
It's not as much time as I wantedto spend, and I think we'd all
like to listen to Sarah's tale too.
But I'd love to hear from Joe brieflyabout how his trip to Australia was
and any things that he uncovered therethat he thinks is worth mentioning.

Joe Duemig (45:44):
Yeah, actually I'm probably even better if Bobby was here.
Bobby stayed in, I visited abouta hundred different caravan
parks while he was down there.
Stayed there and in New Zealand.

That's a way to get staff bought in.
Excited about your product.
We'll send you to NewZealand in Australia.

Joe Duemig (45:59):
That's very true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We decided that about a monthafter he was in, so it was perfect.
Yeah, so we flew in, went to the show.
We had two caravan showsnext to each other.
The Queensland State Showand then the Caravan Industry
of Australia National Show.
Their show's about the same size as OHI.
But it is together with the RVIA.

(46:21):
Basically, they have one industry thatdoes the caravan as opposed to we have
two the RVIA side and the OHI side.
Maybe less people that wereinclined for our business.
One of the things that is prettynoticeable about them, they have a
lot of marketing groups, so obviouslywe have KOA and Jellystone that are
franchise or marketing companies,depending on how you're looking at it.

(46:42):
They have a lot of 'em.
If we talk to somebody thereat a show, there was multiple
parks were represented there.
So they have a lot of different groups.
Some parks belong to multiple groups.
But that's the way they run things there.
There's a lot of a lot of kindof rebranding with the marketing
organizations, but they'reall self-owned and they do not

(47:04):
consider them to be franchises.
They're marketing groups.

Okay, so like Big four Discovery parks.

Joe Duemig (47:11):
Yeah.
Discovery a little different, but yeah.
Goode, Big Four I don'tknow how to pronounce it.
KUI, KUI Parks.
Ingenia.
Summer Star.
There's a ton of and then there'salso a lot of these groups that do
the same thing, but they do themfor state ran parks or public parks.
Gold Coast, holiday parks,sunshine Coast holiday parks.

(47:33):
And so it is a public private partnership.
But they do 'em on a smaller scalewith groups from a general location.

We have some of those in the states.
Like I used to work with a guywho owned Lake Isabella KOA,
who did that as a vendor for abunch of state parks and stuff.

Joe Duemig (47:45):
Yeah.
But one of the thingsis they rebrand them.
That's kinda the weird part.

Oh, okay.

Joe Duemig (47:49):
They're branded in that.
So the Sunshine Coast holidayparks, they're all ran by one group.
They're all branded together.
Some kind of come and go from that brand,but that's, it's just how it works.
It's definitely a differentmodel than we have here.
Pricing.
I think their pricing seems to bea decent amount lower than ours.

Is that the currency conversion though, or

Joe Duemig (48:11):
No.
'cause they're, their dollar like.

Is 60 some cents to the dollar, isn't it?

Joe Duemig (48:15):
Exactly.
And so their parks are, theirnightly rates are $50, $60 Australia.
So we're talking $30 to $40 US.
For nightly stay.
Obviously it depends on the parkyou're staying at, but notice
that they very heavy into water.
So like the splash padsand stuff like that.

(48:35):
There's a lot of those, but thenprobably not as high on the other
amenities that a lot of timesthat we offer, it seems to me.
So yeah, it would be nice toexperience more of that myself.
We had a lot of children that we had toget back to, otherwise we would've stayed
there for three weeks instead of Bobby.
We are going back to, not goingback, we're going to New Zealand.

(48:56):
Those are not the same countries,and don't let them think that
you think that we're going back.

Do people think that, sorry.

Joe Duemig (49:02):
They think they're the same countries, but they put
'em like little put together?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
New Zealand, it's right there.

I'll admit, I thought that the first time, like new, not
the same country, but New Zealandwas pretty close to Sydney and
it's not at all not even close.
Yeah.

Joe Duemig (49:13):
So yeah, we're gonna be going to New Zealand, Rose and I for the show
on the end of, or I guess about a month,a little over a month, 40 days from now.
And, in that case, wedo get to travel around.
I don't think we're gonna stay at, wemight stay at one caravan park but we
will actually be doing the experiencesyou were talking about for couples.
There's a hot spring that hasglamping domes in a little motel.

(49:34):
And so we're actually going to experiencethat kind of right in the middle of
the southern island of New Zealand.
So that'll be, it talks to what wewere doing before we finally get
a couple's time without children.
And that's exactly what we shoot for.
Is that differing experience with ahot spring outside that you can go to.
And

Do you leave the kids with Bobby or.

Joe Duemig (49:55):
Yeah.
No.
We'll leave them with a collegestudent in instead they're a

That's a really quick answer.
I think Bobby should see that answer,that gut reaction of there's no
way I would leave them with Bobby.
That's what it sounded like.

Joe Duemig (50:06):
I'm sure he is.
He would be happy to hear I'm notleaving six children with him.

Scott, can we spend a couple minutes talking
about your trip real quick?
Yeah, sure.
I know it's rushed, but like we can,we don't have to cut off on hard stop.
If anybody needs to go, they can.

I do have another call I gotta jump to.
But Joe, if you make it over thereone of our previous guests from a
couple months back was ValleyviewGlamping out of New Zealand.
I remember really incredible stuff.
The hosts the people like most outdoorhospitality, the people are what make it.
And they were justwonderful, charming people.

(50:40):
So that would definitely, if you'relooking for a little side trip or
a little place checkout Valley View

Joe Duemig (50:45):
I'll see.

I have to jump guys.

Joe Duemig (50:47):
Where I'm at, so, thanks.

Before you leave Zach, tell me where they can
find out more about your company.

Sure.
So I'm with LJA like I said we'repredominantly a civil engineering firm.
You can email me.
My email is zstoltenberg, justlike my last name, @lja.com.
I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm on Facebook or you cangive me a call my cell number's
on, plenty of stuff out there.
But yeah, we'd love to talk toanybody who's looking to plan a new

(51:11):
resort or acquiring an existing onethat they wanna reposition or rehab.
Taken on a couple ofthose new projects lately.
So yeah we love working withpeople that love the outdoors.

Awesome.
Thanks Zach.
I appreciate you.
Scott.
Do you have a couple extra minutes?
Do you wanna talk about it ordo you, you run outta time.

Scott Foos (51:27):
Yeah, no, I do.

Yeah, so like you said, just tell us about your trip
first, and then I'll ask questions.

Scott Foos (51:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We recently, a couple ofmonths ago launched Terrain by
Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.
Terrain is our consulting andprofessional services brand.
And we had a client engage across ahandful of different properties that
they own to have us come in and reallyassess how they're positioned at the

(51:52):
market, what seems to be working wellfrom a revenue management marketing
strategy perspective, how that'stranslating to boots on the ground with
operations and really just kinda lookat the ecosystem of their properties.
So it took us across, threedifferent states for that, plus
a fourth state that we were in.
So we were in four states overtwo-ish weeks, and as part of

(52:16):
that, drove through and talked withoffice staff at 50, 55 properties.
It was an intense few weeks.
Few weeks, but we've learned and Imean it really reconfirmed what we
already knew, that this, the outdoorhospitality industry, at least in the
States, is facing a demand challenge.
And, we saw that with with Toby's topof mind email that came out, I think

(52:40):
last week for the KOA system where,I think she, I'm looking at it here.
Memorial Day was 9%below in camper nights.
Victoria Day was 12%below in camper nights.
So that transient demand.
Is absolutely soft for most markets.
That's not a universal statement,but for most markets and so a lot of

(53:01):
properties, a lot of operators arepivoting to go into an extended state
or chase the extended state business.
And it's really funny becauseit's the exact opposite.
It's not funny, but it is, it'sinteresting that it's the exact
opposite approach that all of us took.
A lot of us took four or five years ago,when the industry was booming and there

(53:23):
was so much transient demand, and wewere looking at properties with seasonal
sites where those sites were sold outfor the season and said, how do we,
like, how do we smartly start to backthat seasonal number down to a company?

Get outta my park.
You don't pay enough money.

Scott Foos (53:36):
That's right.
Yeah.
But yeah, you're, we're only getting thismuch per site per year and we could be
getting this much now it's the opposite.
And we're seeing that, there's onlyso much extended state business to
go around, and there's differenttypes of extended state, of course,
from your summer seasonal littlebusiness folks , it's their lake
house if you will, that they go to.
Folks that just need to be inthe area for a shorter term

(53:56):
or, on a monthly worker basis.
And kind of anything in between there.
And so when we were driving theseproperties, what the common theme that
we continued to see was the propertiesthat had an outward appearance of
intentionality in the guest experience.
Seemed to be performingbetter than their neighbors.

(54:21):
And there was one property, Iwon't say specifically where it
was at, but it was in Tennessee.

You have to say where it's at.

Scott Foos (54:28):
It was in Tennessee.
But one property rightnext door was themed.
And, it was a littlekitschy, but it was great.
There were staff around.
You could see staff, you couldsee people out and about.
Every site had some sort oflandscaping element that tied back
to the overall feel of the property.
And I'm not joking, that property waslike 80% occupied, the one literally

(54:51):
right next door, which is very clean.
But very bland, and you didn't see staff.
The office had limited officehours was, like 25- 30% occupied.
And that's an extreme example, but wecontinue to see that time and time again.
And so those operators, from my viewanyways, the operators that are leaning

(55:12):
into what makes their property reallyspecial and unique and stand out.
And it doesn't have to be anything grand.
It could just be, great guestexperience and, intentional,
landscaping or it's very clean.
You're greeting yourguests when they come in.
When you really lean into those things itmay take a little bit of time but guests

(55:33):
will notice it and they'll share about itin their reviews and, ultimately that will
position your property in a better way.
But it's gotta be tied to like strategyrevenue and marketing strategy.
And those that are able to dive intothe data, see the trends working
with, a great PMS, there are manyout there that can give you that data

(55:54):
and give you that level of insight.
And then knowing what you're lookingfor and how to adjust a strategy based
on what you're seeing from a revenueperspective and then tying it to the
marketing approach is super important.
And so overall, it was reaffirmingto me, I guess, of what we've seen.
And the last thing, Brian, that I'llmention is, and I've shared this

(56:14):
company on this podcast before, butif you don't subscribe to a company
called Future Partners, you shouldyou know what Scott Bahr and their
group does is great for our industryspecifically, and we follow what they do.
What these guys do is more broadfor the travel industry overall
nationally and internationally.
And just today they had theirState of the American T raveler

(56:38):
series their monthly update.
And it really hit home that Campingis uniquely positioned to be able
to withstand economic turbulence,even though we're seeing it, right?
We're seeing demand soften.
You have to look at it relativeto other forms of travel.
What was interesting to me wasintent of travel was very high.

(57:00):
It said 87% of people areextremely interested in travel and
prioritize it in their budgets.
But the mean US travel budget for afamily was $5,500 and $5,500 for the year.

What, per year?
Okay.

Scott Foos (57:16):
Per year.
Per year.
Sorry.
Thank you.
Yes, per year.
That doesn't get you very far today.
And how families can stretch theirtravel budgets and make the most of it.
I think by large, the overall outdoorhospitality industry is positioned in
a way that can provide great value.
I'm sorry.

(57:36):
The other thing that I wanted to saytoo, was that household incomes that
are earning less than $98,000 a year aremost impacted by the economic downturn
in terms of their travel budgets.
And they're the ones that arecutting back travel the most when
this economic downturn happens.

(57:57):
We've gotta be true to our roots.
At least in the Camping industry,and we need to provide really great
value, really great experience.
It's the same thing that we weretalking about when we had all the
transient demand four years ago.
We said we had to provide great experiencefor these new folks to keep coming back.

(58:17):
And it's more true than ever that we haveto keep providing great experience to
our core folks to stretch their dollarsand remind them why Camping is so great.

Yeah, I think the one thing that, like lots of stuff obviously
resonated with me when you were talking,but the one thing that stuck out to
me was the uniquely positioned right.
There's no question that Camping isuniquely positioned to be a benefit
in a down economy or any time of theyear for the reasons that Sarah talked
about, for the reasons Elizabeth knowsher guests come, for the reasons that
Josie, when he's travels with hisfamily, or all his clients that uses

(58:48):
apps the problem is that it's a circle.
Like you can't just haveuniquely positioned over here,
like you're in a good location.
Sarah can't just have the plot of land.
She's gotta build an experiencewith good employees and good people
who tell 'em to get off theirphones and all the things, right?
And Joe can be uniquely positioned tostart an app company because the app store
is big now, but if he builds a terribleapp and doesn't have good people that

(59:10):
service it, and none of it works, he'suniquely positioned that doesn't mean he's
gonna have a good market and good success.
Same thing with Elizabeth.
Same thing with you, Scott.
Third party management withme and marketing, right?
So there needs, there's a largerconversation we keep having about
that, and we don't have time to havethe whole thing right now, right?
But there's a larger conversationabout that, that just,
it's a holistic experience.

(59:31):
And just like the park that wasfull on one side and the park
that was empty on the other side,you've gotta do the whole circle.

Scott Foos (59:36):
That's right.

You don't have to do it like a hundred percent
flawlessly to the excellent level ofeverything that you do, but you've
gotta pay attention to the details.

Scott Foos (59:44):
That's right.

You need to know what to look for,

Sorry to interrupt guys, but I'm also gonna duck out.
I gotta get my kids from school.

Elizabeth, where can we, yeah, we're almost wrapping up anyway,
but Elizabeth, where can we see more orlearn more about your glamping resort?
And then, Sarah, you're youtoo, and we'll let you both go.

Yeah, we have a website www.backfortyglamping.com
and Instagram is our big thing,so you can find us easily on
Instagram, @backfortyglamping.

Brian Searl (01:00:06):
Thank you so much, Elizabeth.
I appreciate your time.

Elizabeth McIntosh (01:00:08):
Yeah.
Thanks for including me.
It was such an honor.

Sarah, where can we learn more about Clayoquot?

Sarah Cruse (01:00:12):
And same thing is website, clayoquotwildernesslodge.com.

You might have to spell that for the

I think so.
Yeah.
C-L-A-Y-O-Q-U-O-T wilderness lodge.com.
Clayoquotwildernesslodge.com.

Thank you so much, Sarah.
I appreciate it.
I'm sorry we pulled you away to theworld of electronics for an hour, but
hopefully you can get back outsideto the things that matter now.

There you go.
Enjoyed my time with you.
It was lovely chatting.
Thanks.
Anyway, I learned quite a bittoo, so I enjoyed our chat.
You all have a great afternoon.
Take care.

Thanks.

Scott Foos (01:00:48):
Thanks, Sarah.

Joe, any final thoughts before we wrap up?

Joe Duemig (01:00:52):
No.
No.
Summer's upon us, allthe customers are busy.
They're all quiet on my end.
It's our slow time.
So it's nice.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here as always, Joe.
Where can they learn moreabout App My Community?

I'm gonna appmycommunity.com.
Schedule a demo, live demo with us,or we can you can actually build a
app to play with on there as well.

Thanks, Joe, appreciate it.
Scott.

Thank you.

Final thoughts?

Just remembering that, travel is part of our DNA and it's what
our guests are looking for, and we haveto continue to build sustainability
in our businesses by focusing on ourteam and allowing them and supporting
them to focus on their guests.
So when times are turbulent.

(01:01:35):
Make sure you're lean,make sure you're smart.
But remember, your team needsyou, your guests need your team,
and we all meet our guests.
Just please rememberthat's all I've gotta say.
You can find me at horizonoutdoors.com
for more information about who we are.

Thank you guys for being here.
I appreciate everybody for watchinganother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
If you're not sick and tired of hearingof me in about 50 minutes, I'm gonna be
doing a two hour podcast called Outwiredwith Scott Bahr, Greg Emmert We're gonna
deep dive into some National Park numbers.
They are pretty horrific in someplaces and they're impacting private
campgrounds quite a bit outside them.
So we're gonna dive into thatand a few other topics as well.

(01:02:11):
So we'll see you there.
Otherwise, we'll see you next week foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
Thanks guys.

Thanks!

Thank you

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MC Fireside Chats - June 11th, 2025

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